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And that's that.
It seems that you can't be right on everything, France beaten Germany.

MTimT said:

Paul_Bedfordshire said:

MaxPB said:

On what kind of leave we propose, surely we just want to be friends with them rather than openly say, fuck you we're going to destabilise you. We just want to trade and be friends, not shackled to a loveless marriage.

We need to make clear with them that we are prepared to decide fuck you we are going to destabilise you if they try and shaft us in the brexit negotiations though

If they try to shaft us, we have to be prepared to leave unconditionally and revert to WTO rules, then resume negotiations from that position. Given the trade imbalance, they will want to come to the table soon enough.

The EU will negotiate to ensure the best deal for them, and we will negotiate to ensure the best deal for us. Them aiming to get the best deal for themselves is not them trying to 'shaft us', it is them (like us) acting in their own best interests.

kle4 said:

John_M said:

williamglenn said:

Paul_Bedfordshire said:

taffys said:

Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.

As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.

No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.

This is realpolitik not SJW gesture politics.

https://twitter.com/andrealeadsom/status/747346925586784256

That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.

While I understand the reason for its use, I feel twitter is not the best place for people to make such pronouncements - no room for fudge or nuance, so all you do is create a bunch of statements for people to hold over your head later.

Leadsom isn't interested in creating the best possible conditions for negotiations. She just wants to become Tory leader. She also doesn't believe it is necessary for their to be good conditions for negotiations because she's under the impression that we hold all the aces and have the EU over a barrel.

John_M said:

anotherDave said:

John_M said:

williamglenn said:

Paul_Bedfordshire said:

taffys said:

Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.

As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.

No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.

This is realpolitik not SJW gesture politics.

https://twitter.com/andrealeadsom/status/747346925586784256

That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.

They're doing it with Switzerland. They already do it with Liechtenstein. And they know free movement is a political hot potato in the UK.

That would be an a la carte Single Market. Not going to happen. Liechenstein is the size of my hearth rug. They get a pass. Switzerland tried to row back from FoM and are being tortured until they give in.

Syed Kamall seems to think its possible. He should know what are red lines, and what aren't.

" Some voted leave since they were against all immigration, more immigration, or the unfairness of the current immigration system that discriminates against the 6.5 billion non-EU citizens who may have a major contribution to make. Between the extremes of closed borders and completely open borders, we should be looking for a controlled but fair immigration system that ends this passport discrimination.

We also need to take account of the large number of British people living in the EU and EU nationals living in Britain. British or EU expats concerned about the extra red tape already know that even EU free movement is not entirely free. EU migrants must either have a job or the ability to finance themselves, and in many countries they must register for ID cards, have medical insurance and so on. This agreement will be one of the most politically and technically sensitive areas to negotiate but I believe it to be the solution that most closely respects the outcome of the referendum."

http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2016/07/syed-kamall-with-self-belief-and-hard-work-we-can-make-the-most-of-leaving-the-eu.html

alex. said:

kle4 said:

John_M said:

williamglenn said:

Paul_Bedfordshire said:

taffys said:

Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.

As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.

No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.

This is realpolitik not SJW gesture politics.

https://twitter.com/andrealeadsom/status/747346925586784256

That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.

While I understand the reason for its use, I feel twitter is not the best place for people to make such pronouncements - no room for fudge or nuance, so all you do is create a bunch of statements for people to hold over your head later.

Leadsom isn't interested in creating the best possible conditions for negotiations. She just wants to become Tory leader. She also doesn't believe it is necessary for their to be good conditions for negotiations because she's under the impression that we hold all the aces and have the EU over a barrel.

She spent several years talking to EU partners about possible reforms for the EU. She should have an idea if free movement is something they can move on.

anotherDave said:

She spent several years talking to EU partners about possible reforms for the EU.

Is that on her CV...

John_M said:

That's a good article. Let me amend my position (I'm mostly watching the footy). We cannot be seen to be getting an a la carte Single Market. There will be a price.

No. I will accept an amendment along the lines of:

"I'm sorry sir, you were of course quite right. I'm really, really, really, sorry. Would you like a cup of tea?"

anotherDave said:

John_M said:

anotherDave said:

John_M said:

williamglenn said:

Paul_Bedfordshire said:

taffys said:

Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.

As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.

No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.

This is realpolitik not SJW gesture politics.

https://twitter.com/andrealeadsom/status/747346925586784256

That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.

They're doing it with Switzerland. They already do it with Liechtenstein. And they know free movement is a political hot potato in the UK.

That would be an a la carte Single Market. Not going to happen. Liechenstein is the size of my hearth rug. They get a pass. Switzerland tried to row back from FoM and are being tortured until they give in.

Syed Kamall seems to think its possible. He should know what are red lines, and what aren't.

" Some voted leave since they were against all immigration, more immigration, or the unfairness of the current immigration system that discriminates against the 6.5 billion non-EU citizens who may have a major contribution to make. Between the extremes of closed borders and completely open borders, we should be looking for a controlled but fair immigration system that ends this passport discrimination.

We also need to take account of the large number of British people living in the EU and EU nationals living in Britain. British or EU expats concerned about the extra red tape already know that even EU free movement is not entirely free. EU migrants must either have a job or the ability to finance themselves, and in many countries they must register for ID cards, have medical insurance and so on. This agreement will be one of the most politically and technically sensitive areas to negotiate but I believe it to be the solution that most closely respects the outcome of the referendum."

http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2016/07/syed-kamall-with-self-belief-and-hard-work-we-can-make-the-most-of-leaving-the-eu.html

An a la carte Europe means getting 100% free mvement of goods, 30% free movement of people. We can compromise one with the other. We can push for free movement reform in the rest of the EU: we may even get it.

anotherDave said:

John_M said:

That's a good article. Let me amend my position (I'm mostly watching the footy). We cannot be seen to be getting an a la carte Single Market. There will be a price.

No. I will accept an amendment along the lines of:

"I'm sorry sir, you were of course quite right. I'm really, really, really, sorry. Would you like a cup of tea?"

Shut up. I'm grieving. Germany, how could you do this to me, you useless buggers.

TheWhiteRabbit said:

That twitter thing isn't necessarily an insider. It could all be cribbed from public statements, I think.

Talk to Toby Young...

Scott_P said:

Speedy said:

The UK has the upper hand on this, since expats are mostly retirees spending their pensions in crisis stricken countries who desperately need cash, those countries can't really afford giving the boot to them.

Spain, Gibraltar

FPT...

Hmm. Tourism accounts for about 11% of Spain's GDP. Spain gets almost 13 million visitors from the UK each year. (we are the number 1 visitors!)

When Turkey shot down the Russian jet earlier this year, Putin told Russians not to go there on holiday. It had a HUGE effect on Turkey, which has now ( I understand) apologised to Russia.

I imagine the sudden loss of British tourists - if things escalated - would hurt Spain.

May falling asleep appears to be the No. 1 video on youtube in the UK. Don't know if that's tailored to me though?

JonathanD said:

anotherDave said:

John_M said:

anotherDave said:

John_M said:

williamglenn said:

Paul_Bedfordshire said:

taffys said:

Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.

As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.

No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.

This is realpolitik not SJW gesture politics.

https://twitter.com/andrealeadsom/status/747346925586784256

That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.

They're doing it with Switzerland. They already do it with Liechtenstein. And they know free movement is a political hot potato in the UK.

That would be an a la carte Single Market. Not going to happen. Liechenstein is the size of my hearth rug. They get a pass. Switzerland tried to row back from FoM and are being tortured until they give in.

Syed Kamall seems to think its possible. He should know what are red lines, and what aren't.

" Some voted leave since they were against all immigration, more immigration, or the unfairness of the current immigration system that discriminates against the 6.5 billion non-EU citizens who may have a major contribution to make. Between the extremes of closed borders and completely open borders, we should be looking for a controlled but fair immigration system that ends this passport discrimination.

We also need to take account of the large number of British people living in the EU and EU nationals living in Britain. British or EU expats concerned about the extra red tape already know that even EU free movement is not entirely free. EU migrants must either have a job or the ability to finance themselves, and in many countries they must register for ID cards, have medical insurance and so on. This agreement will be one of the most politically and technically sensitive areas to negotiate but I believe it to be the solution that most closely respects the outcome of the referendum."

http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2016/07/syed-kamall-with-self-belief-and-hard-work-we-can-make-the-most-of-leaving-the-eu.html

His solution appears to be for the UK to introduce ID cards, switch to a health insurance system of health care and end social security. None of which required leaving the EU or even getting the EU to water down its commitment to FoM.

No. He's saying that free movement is not a uniform system across member states.

Disraeli said:

Scott_P said:

Speedy said:

The UK has the upper hand on this, since expats are mostly retirees spending their pensions in crisis stricken countries who desperately need cash, those countries can't really afford giving the boot to them.

Spain, Gibraltar

FPT...

Hmm. Tourism accounts for about 11% of Spain's GDP. Spain gets almost 13 million visitors from the UK each year. (we are the number 1 visitors!)

When Turkey shot down the Russian jet earlier this year, Putin told Russians not to go there on holiday. It had a HUGE effect on Turkey, which has now ( I understand) apologised to Russia.

I imagine the sudden loss of British tourists - if things escalated - would hurt Spain.

I'm not sure how the UK government would stop British tourists going to Spain. (Although the weakness of Sterling is likely to discourage a lot of Brits from going abroad.)

As an aside, Greece is unbelievably cheap right now. We'll be going to Corfu for another week over the summer

Leadsom v May as most predicted. May the clear favourite but Leadsom certainly not out of it yet

Allez les bleus! In the absence of any Rosbifs i've finally gone native in my adoptive country. It's been a very even game, think the Germans deserve better than 2-0 here.

France v Portugal will be interesting here, there is a huge Portuguese population in Paris (240,000).

Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?

surbiton said:

John_M said:

surbiton said:

JonathanD said:

EPG said:

Speedy said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

shiney2 said:

First policy initiative of Shariah May unravels..

"Mrs May’s most senior supporters are worried that this has now become her greatest single liability"

"BNP policy"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/07/theresa-may-must-not-be-pm-until-she-rejects-the-policy-of-the-b/

Safe pair of hands?

No hiding place for the next 60days..

In my experience it's probably best not to adopt a policy of repatriation if you want to unite the nation post-referendum...smacks a bit too much of Idi Amin

I have the intense feeling that the status of EU nationals and UK nationals will be used as hostages in any negotiation.

The UK can blackmail Poland and Romania with their nationals living in the UK, Spain and Italy with the status of the UK expats living in their countries.

The UK has the upper hand on this, since expats are mostly retirees spending their pensions in crisis stricken countries who desperately need cash, those countries can't really afford giving the boot to them.

Erm, of course they're going to issue blanket permission for UK pensioners to stay, so they can charge the UK taxpayer for every prescription and every scan. Or the NHS can bring them home. This is not a point in the UK's favour in negotiations...

Yes, the negotiation about UK and EU nationals living abroad won't be about whether or not to deport them, it will be about what benefits they are entitled to and who pays.

The difficulty here is that British expats are primarily in France, Spain and Portugal. EU migrants are from East Europe. Why should FR/ES/PR play ball for the East Europeans.

With the honourable exceptions of Spain and Cyprus, we have more of them than they have of us. France is roughly equal.

So, why should Spain play ball ?

Good lord Surbiton, am I supposed to be the UK's diplomatic representative to the EU? I have no idea. I suppose they can chuck the oldies out if they want to.

The reason I can't suggest anything is that other than the meme that Spain is where our poorer oldies go to coffin dodge, I don't have any data on how many, what their wealth is, their overall impact on the Spanish economy, how much of an impact they have on the Spanish H&W systems and so forth.

I am but one person.

Scott_P said:

Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?

Some would say there is, but I don't think so. Leaders don't come along all that often, so probably means little.

rcs1000 said:

Disraeli said:

Scott_P said:

Speedy said:

The UK has the upper hand on this, since expats are mostly retirees spending their pensions in crisis stricken countries who desperately need cash, those countries can't really afford giving the boot to them.

Spain, Gibraltar

FPT...

Hmm. Tourism accounts for about 11% of Spain's GDP. Spain gets almost 13 million visitors from the UK each year. (we are the number 1 visitors!)

When Turkey shot down the Russian jet earlier this year, Putin told Russians not to go there on holiday. It had a HUGE effect on Turkey, which has now ( I understand) apologised to Russia.

I imagine the sudden loss of British tourists - if things escalated - would hurt Spain.

I'm not sure how the UK government would stop British tourists going to Spain. (Although the weakness of Sterling is likely to discourage a lot of Brits from going abroad.)

As an aside, Greece is unbelievably cheap right now. We'll be going to Corfu for another week over the summer

HMG wouldn't need to tell Brits to avoid Spain. The Brits would avoid the country by their own choice.

Going to Spain after they kicked out all the Brits would be seen as deeply unpatriotic. Don't underestimate British patriotism!

anotherDave said:

JonathanD said:

anotherDave said:

John_M said:

anotherDave said:

John_M said:

williamglenn said:

Paul_Bedfordshire said:

taffys said:

Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.

As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.

No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.

This is realpolitik not SJW gesture politics.

https://twitter.com/andrealeadsom/status/747346925586784256

That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.

They're doing it with Switzerland. They already do it with Liechtenstein. And they know free movement is a political hot potato in the UK.

That would be an a la carte Single Market. Not going to happen. Liechenstein is the size of my hearth rug. They get a pass. Switzerland tried to row back from FoM and are being tortured until they give in.

Syed Kamall seems to think its possible. He should know what are red lines, and what aren't.

We also need to take account of the large number of British people living in the EU and EU nationals living in Britain. British or EU expats concerned about the extra red tape already know that even EU free movement is not entirely free. EU migrants must either have a job or the ability to finance themselves, and in many countries they must register for ID cards, have medical insurance and so on. This agreement will be one of the most politically and technically sensitive areas to negotiate but I believe it to be the solution that most closely respects the outcome of the referendum."

http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2016/07/syed-kamall-with-self-belief-and-hard-work-we-can-make-the-most-of-leaving-the-eu.html

His solution appears to be for the UK to introduce ID cards, switch to a health insurance system of health care and end social security. None of which required leaving the EU or even getting the EU to water down its commitment to FoM.

No. He's saying that free movement is not a uniform system across member states.

Yes because different European countries have radically different systems not because they have negotiated special opt outs with the Commission. The UK could have those same restrictions on FoM but only if we drastically change our own system. We are not going to be able to keep our current set up and negotiate restricted FoM.

John_M said:

surbiton said:

John_M said:

surbiton said:

JonathanD said:

EPG said:

Speedy said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

shiney2 said:

First policy initiative of Shariah May unravels..

"Mrs May’s most senior supporters are worried that this has now become her greatest single liability"

"BNP policy"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/07/theresa-may-must-not-be-pm-until-she-rejects-the-policy-of-the-b/

Safe pair of hands?

No hiding place for the next 60days..

In my experience it's probably best not to adopt a policy of repatriation if you want to unite the nation post-referendum...smacks a bit too much of Idi Amin

I have the intense feeling that the status of EU nationals and UK nationals will be used as hostages in any negotiation.

The UK can blackmail Poland and Romania with their nationals living in the UK, Spain and Italy with the status of the UK expats living in their countries.

The UK has the upper hand on this, since expats are mostly retirees spending their pensions in crisis stricken countries who desperately need cash, those countries can't really afford giving the boot to them.

Erm, of course they're going to issue blanket permission for UK pensioners to stay, so they can charge the UK taxpayer for every prescription and every scan. Or the NHS can bring them home. This is not a point in the UK's favour in negotiations...

Yes, the negotiation about UK and EU nationals living abroad won't be about whether or not to deport them, it will be about what benefits they are entitled to and who pays.

The difficulty here is that British expats are primarily in France, Spain and Portugal. EU migrants are from East Europe. Why should FR/ES/PR play ball for the East Europeans.

With the honourable exceptions of Spain and Cyprus, we have more of them than they have of us. France is roughly equal.

So, why should Spain play ball ?

Good lord Surbiton, am I supposed to be the UK's diplomatic representative to the EU? I have no idea. I suppose they can chuck the oldies out if they want to.

The reason I can't suggest anything is that other than the meme that Spain is where our poorer oldies go to coffin dodge, I don't have any data on how many, what their wealth is, their overall impact on the Spanish economy, how much of an impact they have on the Spanish H&W systems and so forth.

I am but one person.

I'm pretty sure the Spanish wouldn't want another property market collapse, and with all the old fogies selling up all at once that market would crash like John Denver...too soon?

Jobabob said:

France. A great nation that will win the European Championship, and be healed by it. Superb.

A Remainer AND a lover of France?

Have we NOTHING in common

kle4 said:

Scott_P said:

Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?

Some would say there is, but I don't think so. Leaders don't come along all that often, so probably means little.

The anomaly is Corbyn, because the Labour Party got in a time warp. They could have easily had a female leader in 2010 or 2015.

What's more interesting is that the female candidates in the Tory races take their chances.

Just bumped into a couple of Westminster old boy Tories in th

Ishmael_X said:

Jobabob said:

HYUFD said:

Been a good few weeks for the French, knocked Germany out of the European Championships and overtaken the UK as the 5th largest economy on some measures

HYUFD said:

Been a good few weeks for the French, knocked Germany out of the European Championships and overtaken the UK as the 5th largest economy on some measures

Indeed. A victory for the French and for all Francophiles.

Jeremy Clarkson will be happy.

And had their "surrender monkey" behaviour over Iraq rather thoroughly vindicated, don't forget. Shame about Tsonga.

Vive la France

foxinsoxuk said:

Paristonda said:

Allez les bleus! In the absence of any Rosbifs i've finally gone native in my adoptive country. It's been a very even game, think the Germans deserve better than 2-0 here.

France v Portugal will be interesting here, there is a huge Portuguese population in Paris (240,000).

Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?

Still a Leicester City player in there! I would support Portugal if Ronaldo wasn't such a twat.

On the subject of women leaders, I dont think there is anything in it. More women vote Labour than Conservative because women know which party is supportive of them.

IPSOS MORI will tell you that the Tories had a 4 point lead with women at the general election. They got 38% of the male vote and 37% of the female vote... not a very big difference.

@gabyhinsliff: So she's now got the Sun, the Mail and ConHome endorsements. Fwiw. https://t.co/bQdAG5CW79

Disraeli said:

Jobabob said:

France. A great nation that will win the European Championship, and be healed by it. Superb.

A Remainer AND a lover of France?

Have we NOTHING in common

France was, is, and will be the greatest nation on Earth. Most of that is down to pure luck. Geography. They should stop being so miserable. When God* handed out countries they were at the front of the queue.

*I'm a confirmed atheist. But you catch my drift.

Mock The Week is awesome

The Apprentice. team Take Back Control have given away Freedom of Movement...

Scott_P said:

@gabyhinsliff: So she's now got the Sun, the Mail and ConHome endorsements. Fwiw. https://t.co/bQdAG5CW79

Apart from the express is there any other paper that will back Leadsom

Maybe this whole contest is as simple as it looks - May wins, and wins big. Feels very different to Corbyns upset etc (though I'm tempting fate now)

@janemerrick23: I hope one of the papers is doing a "How the Husbands Measure Up" on the Tory leadership contest tomorrow.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Scott_P said:

@gabyhinsliff: So she's now got the Sun, the Mail and ConHome endorsements. Fwiw. https://t.co/bQdAG5CW79

Apart from the express is there any other paper that will back Leadsom

Leave.eu are already shifting into high gear supporting her, the more papers that back May the stronger the "anti-establishment" line will get pushed. For a former banker.....wait, that worked recently...

SimonStClare said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

kle4 said:

Scott_P said:

Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?

Some would say there is, but I don't think so. Leaders don't come along all that often, so probably means little.

The anomaly is Corbyn, because the Labour Party got in a time warp. They could have easily had a female leader in 2010 or 2015.

What's more interesting is that the female candidates in the Tory races take their chances.

2010 – Blimey, apart from Ms Abbott I’ve forgotten who stood – care to jolt an old memory ?

The Milibands, Ed Balls and Burnham. I thought Burnham was best. I was such a fool.

Scott_P said:

@janemerrick23: I hope one of the papers is doing a "How the Husbands Measure Up" on the Tory leadership contest tomorrow.

Well the BBC's piece comparing the two does include a section on their respective husbands, so I wouldn't be surprised if a paper did a piece like that at some point.

TheWhiteRabbit said:

SimonStClare said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

kle4 said:

Scott_P said:

Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?

Some would say there is, but I don't think so. Leaders don't come along all that often, so probably means little.

The anomaly is Corbyn, because the Labour Party got in a time warp. They could have easily had a female leader in 2010 or 2015.

What's more interesting is that the female candidates in the Tory races take their chances.

2010 – Blimey, apart from Ms Abbott I’ve forgotten who stood – care to jolt an old memory ?

Milliband, Milliband, Burnham, Balls and Abbott (to hold the fort for the much derided resurgence of the left, OBVIOUSLY never going to happen)

And Abbott also only got on the ballot thanks to loaned nominations, as I recall, and explicitly because she was a woman and no other reason, as someone with more nominations pulled out to let her through.

HaroldO said:

I'm pretty sure the Spanish wouldn't want another property market collapse, and with all the old fogies selling up all at once that market would crash like John Denver...too soon?

In Southern Spain, especially away from the coast, properties already sell for the cost of their materials. There was an American hedge fund that bought up developments wholesale, stripped them, gutted them, sold the tiles and sinks and bricks and copper, and made a healthy profit.

I don't think the price on those properties is going much lower.

Now, property in Malaga and Marbella, maybe that could come down some. But you can already get nice 600 sq ft two bedroom apartments five minutes from the sea for under EUR100,000 (probably down 75%), so I think that one is pretty played out.

ThreeQuidder said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Paristonda said:

Allez les bleus! In the absence of any Rosbifs i've finally gone native in my adoptive country. It's been a very even game, think the Germans deserve better than 2-0 here.

France v Portugal will be interesting here, there is a huge Portuguese population in Paris (240,000).

Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?

Still a Leicester City player in there! I would support Portugal if Ronaldo wasn't such a twat.

On the subject of women leaders, I dont think there is anything in it. More women vote Labour than Conservative because women know wich party is supportive of them.

Ronaldo is without doubt a twat, but I'm warming to him because of his interactions with fans. The youtube clip of him and the cheeky ballboy trying to get a selfie is really good.

Ronaldo is so vain that even Carly Simon thinks that song is about him.

brilliant

HaroldO said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Scott_P said:

@gabyhinsliff: So she's now got the Sun, the Mail and ConHome endorsements. Fwiw. https://t.co/bQdAG5CW79

Apart from the express is there any other paper that will back Leadsom

Leave.eu are already shifting into high gear supporting her, the more papers that back May the stronger the "anti-establishment" line will get pushed. For a former banker.....wait, that worked recently...

Not sure that they will help her. She needs to distance herself from UKIP

Rasmussen Trump 42 Clinton 40 (July 5)
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/white_house_watch

Pew Clinton 51 Trump 42 (June 15-26)
http://www.people-press.org/files/2016/07/07-07-16-Voter-attitudes-topline-for-release.pdf

How ironic that Gove, the Brexit expert, was defeated by the vacuous Leadsom. Definitely had enough of experts.

Has anyone yet offered an explanation of Leadsom's "Brexit hasn't hit the pound, the markets just failed to anticipate the referendum result" nonsense yet?

Spain is my favourite EU country. Why?

Because when I go there, I find a country that has gone from poverty stricken fascist dictatorship when I was born, to modern bustling economy with some of the best companies in Europe.

Yes, I hang around with the 'elites'. Most 'elites' think they deserve to be there. In Spain, the people who run the companies still marvel at their good fortune. There's a humbleness lacking in (say) the French or the Italians (or even the Brits). Underneath it all is a fear that, if they're not careful, there'll be another Franco.

alex. said:

Has anyone yet offered an explanation of Leadsom's "Brexit hasn't hit the pound, the markets just failed to anticipate the referendum result" nonsense yet?

She's an idiot?

Labour Party meeting in Ulverston tonight - vote of no confidence in @JWoodcockMP, carried 31 votes to 10. #imwithCorbyn

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HaroldO said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Scott_P said:

@gabyhinsliff: So she's now got the Sun, the Mail and ConHome endorsements. Fwiw. https://t.co/bQdAG5CW79

Apart from the express is there any other paper that will back Leadsom

Leave.eu are already shifting into high gear supporting her, the more papers that back May the stronger the "anti-establishment" line will get pushed. For a former banker.....wait, that worked recently...

Not sure that they will help her. She needs to distance herself from UKIP

Agreed, I was just being facetious.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HaroldO said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Scott_P said:

@gabyhinsliff: So she's now got the Sun, the Mail and ConHome endorsements. Fwiw. https://t.co/bQdAG5CW79

Apart from the express is there any other paper that will back Leadsom

Leave.eu are already shifting into high gear supporting her, the more papers that back May the stronger the "anti-establishment" line will get pushed. For a former banker.....wait, that worked recently...

Not sure that they will help her. She needs to distance herself from UKIP

Nah! Tory members like UKIP. Think Corbyn and Labour party. Members are the extremists.

DaveDave said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HaroldO said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Scott_P said:

@gabyhinsliff: So she's now got the Sun, the Mail and ConHome endorsements. Fwiw. https://t.co/bQdAG5CW79

Apart from the express is there any other paper that will back Leadsom

Leave.eu are already shifting into high gear supporting her, the more papers that back May the stronger the "anti-establishment" line will get pushed. For a former banker.....wait, that worked recently...

Not sure that they will help her. She needs to distance herself from UKIP

Nah! Tory members like UKIP. Think Corbyn and Labour party. Members are the extremists.

This Tory member does not like UKIP.

Never let facts get in the way of your inbuilt prejudices though.