In my experience it's probably best not to adopt a policy of repatriation if you want to unite the nation post-referendum...smacks a bit too much of Idi Amin
I have the intense feeling that the status of EU nationals and UK nationals will be used as hostages in any negotiation.
The UK can blackmail Poland and Romania with their nationals living in the UK, Spain and Italy with the status of the UK expats living in their countries.
The UK has the upper hand on this, since expats are mostly retirees spending their pensions in crisis stricken countries who desperately need cash, those countries can't really afford giving the boot to them.
My own feeling is that this one is in fact going to be the biggest non-issue in the otherwise fraught negotiations. Both sides' interests are almost identical.
Surely the correct thing for a politician to say about this is: "it is in the interests of the UK and its citizens resident in the EU and of the EU countries and their citizens resident in the UK that agreement is quickly reached to maintain the rights of these citizens to maintain their right to live where they do, and so I expect that this will be agreed as one of the first points in the exit negotiations".
Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.
As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.
No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.
That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.
They're doing it with Switzerland. They already do it with Liechtenstein. And they know free movement is a political hot potato in the UK.
That would be an a la carte Single Market. Not going to happen. Liechenstein is the size of my hearth rug. They get a pass. Switzerland tried to row back from FoM and are being tortured until they give in.
On what kind of leave we propose, surely we just want to be friends with them rather than openly say, fuck you we're going to destabilise you. We just want to trade and be friends, not shackled to a loveless marriage.
We need to make clear with them that we are prepared to decide fuck you we are going to destabilise you if they try and shaft us in the brexit negotiations though
If they try to shaft us, we have to be prepared to leave unconditionally and revert to WTO rules, then resume negotiations from that position. Given the trade imbalance, they will want to come to the table soon enough.
The EU will negotiate to ensure the best deal for them, and we will negotiate to ensure the best deal for us. Them aiming to get the best deal for themselves is not them trying to 'shaft us', it is them (like us) acting in their own best interests.
Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.
As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.
No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.
That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.
While I understand the reason for its use, I feel twitter is not the best place for people to make such pronouncements - no room for fudge or nuance, so all you do is create a bunch of statements for people to hold over your head later.
Leadsom isn't interested in creating the best possible conditions for negotiations. She just wants to become Tory leader. She also doesn't believe it is necessary for their to be good conditions for negotiations because she's under the impression that we hold all the aces and have the EU over a barrel.
Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.
As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.
No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.
That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.
They're doing it with Switzerland. They already do it with Liechtenstein. And they know free movement is a political hot potato in the UK.
That would be an a la carte Single Market. Not going to happen. Liechenstein is the size of my hearth rug. They get a pass. Switzerland tried to row back from FoM and are being tortured until they give in.
Syed Kamall seems to think its possible. He should know what are red lines, and what aren't.
" Some voted leave since they were against all immigration, more immigration, or the unfairness of the current immigration system that discriminates against the 6.5 billion non-EU citizens who may have a major contribution to make. Between the extremes of closed borders and completely open borders, we should be looking for a controlled but fair immigration system that ends this passport discrimination.
We also need to take account of the large number of British people living in the EU and EU nationals living in Britain. British or EU expats concerned about the extra red tape already know that even EU free movement is not entirely free. EU migrants must either have a job or the ability to finance themselves, and in many countries they must register for ID cards, have medical insurance and so on. This agreement will be one of the most politically and technically sensitive areas to negotiate but I believe it to be the solution that most closely respects the outcome of the referendum."
Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.
As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.
No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.
That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.
They're doing it with Switzerland. They already do it with Liechtenstein. And they know free movement is a political hot potato in the UK.
That would be an a la carte Single Market. Not going to happen. Liechenstein is the size of my hearth rug. They get a pass. Switzerland tried to row back from FoM and are being tortured until they give in.
Syed Kamall seems to think its possible. He should know what are red lines, and what aren't.
" Some voted leave since they were against all immigration, more immigration, or the unfairness of the current immigration system that discriminates against the 6.5 billion non-EU citizens who may have a major contribution to make. Between the extremes of closed borders and completely open borders, we should be looking for a controlled but fair immigration system that ends this passport discrimination.
We also need to take account of the large number of British people living in the EU and EU nationals living in Britain. British or EU expats concerned about the extra red tape already know that even EU free movement is not entirely free. EU migrants must either have a job or the ability to finance themselves, and in many countries they must register for ID cards, have medical insurance and so on. This agreement will be one of the most politically and technically sensitive areas to negotiate but I believe it to be the solution that most closely respects the outcome of the referendum."
That's a good article. Let me amend my position (I'm mostly watching the footy). We cannot be seen to be getting an a la carte Single Market. There will be a price.
Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.
As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.
No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.
That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.
While I understand the reason for its use, I feel twitter is not the best place for people to make such pronouncements - no room for fudge or nuance, so all you do is create a bunch of statements for people to hold over your head later.
Leadsom isn't interested in creating the best possible conditions for negotiations. She just wants to become Tory leader. She also doesn't believe it is necessary for their to be good conditions for negotiations because she's under the impression that we hold all the aces and have the EU over a barrel.
She spent several years talking to EU partners about possible reforms for the EU. She should have an idea if free movement is something they can move on.
Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.
As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.
No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.
That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.
They're doing it with Switzerland. They already do it with Liechtenstein. And they know free movement is a political hot potato in the UK.
That would be an a la carte Single Market. Not going to happen. Liechenstein is the size of my hearth rug. They get a pass. Switzerland tried to row back from FoM and are being tortured until they give in.
Syed Kamall seems to think its possible. He should know what are red lines, and what aren't.
" Some voted leave since they were against all immigration, more immigration, or the unfairness of the current immigration system that discriminates against the 6.5 billion non-EU citizens who may have a major contribution to make. Between the extremes of closed borders and completely open borders, we should be looking for a controlled but fair immigration system that ends this passport discrimination.
We also need to take account of the large number of British people living in the EU and EU nationals living in Britain. British or EU expats concerned about the extra red tape already know that even EU free movement is not entirely free. EU migrants must either have a job or the ability to finance themselves, and in many countries they must register for ID cards, have medical insurance and so on. This agreement will be one of the most politically and technically sensitive areas to negotiate but I believe it to be the solution that most closely respects the outcome of the referendum."
His solution appears to be for the UK to introduce ID cards, switch to a health insurance system of health care and end social security. None of which required leaving the EU or even getting the EU to water down its commitment to FoM.
That's a good article. Let me amend my position (I'm mostly watching the footy). We cannot be seen to be getting an a la carte Single Market. There will be a price.
No. I will accept an amendment along the lines of:
"I'm sorry sir, you were of course quite right. I'm really, really, really, sorry. Would you like a cup of tea?"
Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.
As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.
No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.
That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.
While I understand the reason for its use, I feel twitter is not the best place for people to make such pronouncements - no room for fudge or nuance, so all you do is create a bunch of statements for people to hold over your head later.
Leadsom isn't interested in creating the best possible conditions for negotiations. She just wants to become Tory leader. She also doesn't believe it is necessary for their to be good conditions for negotiations because she's under the impression that we hold all the aces and have the EU over a barrel.
She spent several years talking to EU partners about possible reforms for the EU. She should have an idea if free movement is something they can move on.
It is all about being seen to respect the Four Freedoms. If we 'respect' freedom of labour, but restrict it by requiring people to buy health insurance (as we already do for non-working "self sufficient" EEA nationals) then we would dramatically reduce the number of people coming. While respecting the Four Freedoms.
Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.
As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.
No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.
That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.
They're doing it with Switzerland. They already do it with Liechtenstein. And they know free movement is a political hot potato in the UK.
That would be an a la carte Single Market. Not going to happen. Liechenstein is the size of my hearth rug. They get a pass. Switzerland tried to row back from FoM and are being tortured until they give in.
Syed Kamall seems to think its possible. He should know what are red lines, and what aren't.
" Some voted leave since they were against all immigration, more immigration, or the unfairness of the current immigration system that discriminates against the 6.5 billion non-EU citizens who may have a major contribution to make. Between the extremes of closed borders and completely open borders, we should be looking for a controlled but fair immigration system that ends this passport discrimination.
We also need to take account of the large number of British people living in the EU and EU nationals living in Britain. British or EU expats concerned about the extra red tape already know that even EU free movement is not entirely free. EU migrants must either have a job or the ability to finance themselves, and in many countries they must register for ID cards, have medical insurance and so on. This agreement will be one of the most politically and technically sensitive areas to negotiate but I believe it to be the solution that most closely respects the outcome of the referendum."
An a la carte Europe means getting 100% free mvement of goods, 30% free movement of people. We can compromise one with the other. We can push for free movement reform in the rest of the EU: we may even get it.
In my experience it's probably best not to adopt a policy of repatriation if you want to unite the nation post-referendum...smacks a bit too much of Idi Amin
I have the intense feeling that the status of EU nationals and UK nationals will be used as hostages in any negotiation.
The UK can blackmail Poland and Romania with their nationals living in the UK, Spain and Italy with the status of the UK expats living in their countries.
The UK has the upper hand on this, since expats are mostly retirees spending their pensions in crisis stricken countries who desperately need cash, those countries can't really afford giving the boot to them.
Erm, of course they're going to issue blanket permission for UK pensioners to stay, so they can charge the UK taxpayer for every prescription and every scan. Or the NHS can bring them home. This is not a point in the UK's favour in negotiations...
Yes, the negotiation about UK and EU nationals living abroad won't be about whether or not to deport them, it will be about what benefits they are entitled to and who pays.
The difficulty here is that British expats are primarily in France, Spain and Portugal. EU migrants are from East Europe. Why should FR/ES/PR play ball for the East Europeans.
That's a good article. Let me amend my position (I'm mostly watching the footy). We cannot be seen to be getting an a la carte Single Market. There will be a price.
No. I will accept an amendment along the lines of:
"I'm sorry sir, you were of course quite right. I'm really, really, really, sorry. Would you like a cup of tea?"
Shut up. I'm grieving. Germany, how could you do this to me, you useless buggers.
The UK has the upper hand on this, since expats are mostly retirees spending their pensions in crisis stricken countries who desperately need cash, those countries can't really afford giving the boot to them.
Spain, Gibraltar
FPT...
Hmm. Tourism accounts for about 11% of Spain's GDP. Spain gets almost 13 million visitors from the UK each year. (we are the number 1 visitors!)
When Turkey shot down the Russian jet earlier this year, Putin told Russians not to go there on holiday. It had a HUGE effect on Turkey, which has now ( I understand) apologised to Russia.
I imagine the sudden loss of British tourists - if things escalated - would hurt Spain.
In my experience it's probably best not to adopt a policy of repatriation if you want to unite the nation post-referendum...smacks a bit too much of Idi Amin
I have the intense feeling that the status of EU nationals and UK nationals will be used as hostages in any negotiation.
The UK can blackmail Poland and Romania with their nationals living in the UK, Spain and Italy with the status of the UK expats living in their countries.
The UK has the upper hand on this, since expats are mostly retirees spending their pensions in crisis stricken countries who desperately need cash, those countries can't really afford giving the boot to them.
Erm, of course they're going to issue blanket permission for UK pensioners to stay, so they can charge the UK taxpayer for every prescription and every scan. Or the NHS can bring them home. This is not a point in the UK's favour in negotiations...
Yes, the negotiation about UK and EU nationals living abroad won't be about whether or not to deport them, it will be about what benefits they are entitled to and who pays.
The difficulty here is that British expats are primarily in France, Spain and Portugal. EU migrants are from East Europe. Why should FR/ES/PR play ball for the East Europeans.
With the honourable exceptions of Spain and Cyprus, we have more of them than they have of us. France is roughly equal.
Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.
As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.
No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.
That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.
They're doing it with Switzerland. They already do it with Liechtenstein. And they know free movement is a political hot potato in the UK.
That would be an a la carte Single Market. Not going to happen. Liechenstein is the size of my hearth rug. They get a pass. Switzerland tried to row back from FoM and are being tortured until they give in.
Syed Kamall seems to think its possible. He should know what are red lines, and what aren't.
" Some voted leave since they were against all immigration, more immigration, or the unfairness of the current immigration system that discriminates against the 6.5 billion non-EU citizens who may have a major contribution to make. Between the extremes of closed borders and completely open borders, we should be looking for a controlled but fair immigration system that ends this passport discrimination.
We also need to take account of the large number of British people living in the EU and EU nationals living in Britain. British or EU expats concerned about the extra red tape already know that even EU free movement is not entirely free. EU migrants must either have a job or the ability to finance themselves, and in many countries they must register for ID cards, have medical insurance and so on. This agreement will be one of the most politically and technically sensitive areas to negotiate but I believe it to be the solution that most closely respects the outcome of the referendum."
His solution appears to be for the UK to introduce ID cards, switch to a health insurance system of health care and end social security. None of which required leaving the EU or even getting the EU to water down its commitment to FoM.
No. He's saying that free movement is not a uniform system across member states.
In my experience it's probably best not to adopt a policy of repatriation if you want to unite the nation post-referendum...smacks a bit too much of Idi Amin
I have the intense feeling that the status of EU nationals and UK nationals will be used as hostages in any negotiation.
The UK can blackmail Poland and Romania with their nationals living in the UK, Spain and Italy with the status of the UK expats living in their countries.
The UK has the upper hand on this, since expats are mostly retirees spending their pensions in crisis stricken countries who desperately need cash, those countries can't really afford giving the boot to them.
Erm, of course they're going to issue blanket permission for UK pensioners to stay, so they can charge the UK taxpayer for every prescription and every scan. Or the NHS can bring them home. This is not a point in the UK's favour in negotiations...
Yes, the negotiation about UK and EU nationals living abroad won't be about whether or not to deport them, it will be about what benefits they are entitled to and who pays.
The difficulty here is that British expats are primarily in France, Spain and Portugal. EU migrants are from East Europe. Why should FR/ES/PR play ball for the East Europeans.
With the honourable exceptions of Spain and Cyprus, we have more of them than they have of us. France is roughly equal.
Been a good few weeks for the French, knocked Germany out of the European Championships and overtaken the UK as the 5th largest economy on some measures
The UK has the upper hand on this, since expats are mostly retirees spending their pensions in crisis stricken countries who desperately need cash, those countries can't really afford giving the boot to them.
Spain, Gibraltar
FPT...
Hmm. Tourism accounts for about 11% of Spain's GDP. Spain gets almost 13 million visitors from the UK each year. (we are the number 1 visitors!)
When Turkey shot down the Russian jet earlier this year, Putin told Russians not to go there on holiday. It had a HUGE effect on Turkey, which has now ( I understand) apologised to Russia.
I imagine the sudden loss of British tourists - if things escalated - would hurt Spain.
I'm not sure how the UK government would stop British tourists going to Spain. (Although the weakness of Sterling is likely to discourage a lot of Brits from going abroad.)
As an aside, Greece is unbelievably cheap right now. We'll be going to Corfu for another week over the summer
The UK has the upper hand on this, since expats are mostly retirees spending their pensions in crisis stricken countries who desperately need cash, those countries can't really afford giving the boot to them.
Spain, Gibraltar
FPT...
Hmm. Tourism accounts for about 11% of Spain's GDP. Spain gets almost 13 million visitors from the UK each year. (we are the number 1 visitors!)
When Turkey shot down the Russian jet earlier this year, Putin told Russians not to go there on holiday. It had a HUGE effect on Turkey, which has now ( I understand) apologised to Russia.
I imagine the sudden loss of British tourists - if things escalated - would hurt Spain.
Where else would they go? All the EU countries are the sort that sun worshippers like (never understood the appeal of sun myself but there you go). The Nordic countries where it's colder and more expensive? North Africa where you are increasingly likely to get shot or bombed? We just had an election where enough people wanted to stick it to the establishment to make the difference, they aren't going to start listening to government when they start to tell them where they can and can't go on holiday.
The UK has the upper hand on this, since expats are mostly retirees spending their pensions in crisis stricken countries who desperately need cash, those countries can't really afford giving the boot to them.
Spain, Gibraltar
FPT...
Hmm. Tourism accounts for about 11% of Spain's GDP. Spain gets almost 13 million visitors from the UK each year. (we are the number 1 visitors!)
When Turkey shot down the Russian jet earlier this year, Putin told Russians not to go there on holiday. It had a HUGE effect on Turkey, which has now ( I understand) apologised to Russia.
I imagine the sudden loss of British tourists - if things escalated - would hurt Spain.
Why would Spain not continue to encourage British tourism ? What they would not want to do is provide services to UK expats.
Allez les bleus! In the absence of any Rosbifs i've finally gone native in my adoptive country. It's been a very even game, think the Germans deserve better than 2-0 here.
France v Portugal will be interesting here, there is a huge Portuguese population in Paris (240,000).
Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?
Been a good few weeks for the French, knocked Germany out of the European Championships and overtaken the UK as the 5th largest economy on some measures
Been a good few weeks for the French, knocked Germany out of the European Championships and overtaken the UK as the 5th largest economy on some measures
Indeed. A victory for the French and for all Francophiles.
In my experience it's probably best not to adopt a policy of repatriation if you want to unite the nation post-referendum...smacks a bit too much of Idi Amin
I have the intense feeling that the status of EU nationals and UK nationals will be used as hostages in any negotiation.
The UK can blackmail Poland and Romania with their nationals living in the UK, Spain and Italy with the status of the UK expats living in their countries.
The UK has the upper hand on this, since expats are mostly retirees spending their pensions in crisis stricken countries who desperately need cash, those countries can't really afford giving the boot to them.
Erm, of course they're going to issue blanket permission for UK pensioners to stay, so they can charge the UK taxpayer for every prescription and every scan. Or the NHS can bring them home. This is not a point in the UK's favour in negotiations...
Yes, the negotiation about UK and EU nationals living abroad won't be about whether or not to deport them, it will be about what benefits they are entitled to and who pays.
The difficulty here is that British expats are primarily in France, Spain and Portugal. EU migrants are from East Europe. Why should FR/ES/PR play ball for the East Europeans.
With the honourable exceptions of Spain and Cyprus, we have more of them than they have of us. France is roughly equal.
So, why should Spain play ball ?
Good lord Surbiton, am I supposed to be the UK's diplomatic representative to the EU? I have no idea. I suppose they can chuck the oldies out if they want to.
The reason I can't suggest anything is that other than the meme that Spain is where our poorer oldies go to coffin dodge, I don't have any data on how many, what their wealth is, their overall impact on the Spanish economy, how much of an impact they have on the Spanish H&W systems and so forth.
Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?
Some would say there is, but I don't think so. Leaders don't come along all that often, so probably means little.
Been a good few weeks for the French, knocked Germany out of the European Championships and overtaken the UK as the 5th largest economy on some measures
Been a good few weeks for the French, knocked Germany out of the European Championships and overtaken the UK as the 5th largest economy on some measures
Indeed. A victory for the French and for all Francophiles.
Jeremy Clarkson will be happy.
And had their "surrender monkey" behaviour over Iraq rather thoroughly vindicated, don't forget. Shame about Tsonga.
The UK has the upper hand on this, since expats are mostly retirees spending their pensions in crisis stricken countries who desperately need cash, those countries can't really afford giving the boot to them.
Spain, Gibraltar
FPT...
Hmm. Tourism accounts for about 11% of Spain's GDP. Spain gets almost 13 million visitors from the UK each year. (we are the number 1 visitors!)
When Turkey shot down the Russian jet earlier this year, Putin told Russians not to go there on holiday. It had a HUGE effect on Turkey, which has now ( I understand) apologised to Russia.
I imagine the sudden loss of British tourists - if things escalated - would hurt Spain.
I'm not sure how the UK government would stop British tourists going to Spain. (Although the weakness of Sterling is likely to discourage a lot of Brits from going abroad.)
As an aside, Greece is unbelievably cheap right now. We'll be going to Corfu for another week over the summer
HMG wouldn't need to tell Brits to avoid Spain. The Brits would avoid the country by their own choice.
Going to Spain after they kicked out all the Brits would be seen as deeply unpatriotic. Don't underestimate British patriotism!
Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.
As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.
No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.
That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.
They're doing it with Switzerland. They already do it with Liechtenstein. And they know free movement is a political hot potato in the UK.
That would be an a la carte Single Market. Not going to happen. Liechenstein is the size of my hearth rug. They get a pass. Switzerland tried to row back from FoM and are being tortured until they give in.
Syed Kamall seems to think its possible. He should know what are red lines, and what aren't.
We also need to take account of the large number of British people living in the EU and EU nationals living in Britain. British or EU expats concerned about the extra red tape already know that even EU free movement is not entirely free. EU migrants must either have a job or the ability to finance themselves, and in many countries they must register for ID cards, have medical insurance and so on. This agreement will be one of the most politically and technically sensitive areas to negotiate but I believe it to be the solution that most closely respects the outcome of the referendum."
His solution appears to be for the UK to introduce ID cards, switch to a health insurance system of health care and end social security. None of which required leaving the EU or even getting the EU to water down its commitment to FoM.
No. He's saying that free movement is not a uniform system across member states.
Yes because different European countries have radically different systems not because they have negotiated special opt outs with the Commission. The UK could have those same restrictions on FoM but only if we drastically change our own system. We are not going to be able to keep our current set up and negotiate restricted FoM.
Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.
As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.
No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.
That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.
While I understand the reason for its use, I feel twitter is not the best place for people to make such pronouncements - no room for fudge or nuance, so all you do is create a bunch of statements for people to hold over your head later.
Leadsom isn't interested in creating the best possible conditions for negotiations. She just wants to become Tory leader. She also doesn't believe it is necessary for their to be good conditions for negotiations because she's under the impression that we hold all the aces and have the EU over a barrel.
She spent several years talking to EU partners about possible reforms for the EU. She should have an idea if free movement is something they can move on.
It is all about being seen to respect the Four Freedoms. If we 'respect' freedom of labour, but restrict it by requiring people to buy health insurance (as we already do for non-working "self sufficient" EEA nationals) then we would dramatically reduce the number of people coming. While respecting the Four Freedoms.
True. I hope that the next PM has the drive to push these things through.
In my experience it's probably best not to adopt a policy of repatriation if you want to unite the nation post-referendum...smacks a bit too much of Idi Amin
I have the intense feeling that the status of EU nationals and UK nationals will be used as hostages in any negotiation.
The UK can blackmail Poland and Romania with their nationals living in the UK, Spain and Italy with the status of the UK expats living in their countries.
The UK has the upper hand on this, since expats are mostly retirees spending their pensions in crisis stricken countries who desperately need cash, those countries can't really afford giving the boot to them.
Erm, of course they're going to issue blanket permission for UK pensioners to stay, so they can charge the UK taxpayer for every prescription and every scan. Or the NHS can bring them home. This is not a point in the UK's favour in negotiations...
Yes, the negotiation about UK and EU nationals living abroad won't be about whether or not to deport them, it will be about what benefits they are entitled to and who pays.
The difficulty here is that British expats are primarily in France, Spain and Portugal. EU migrants are from East Europe. Why should FR/ES/PR play ball for the East Europeans.
With the honourable exceptions of Spain and Cyprus, we have more of them than they have of us. France is roughly equal.
So, why should Spain play ball ?
Good lord Surbiton, am I supposed to be the UK's diplomatic representative to the EU? I have no idea. I suppose they can chuck the oldies out if they want to.
The reason I can't suggest anything is that other than the meme that Spain is where our poorer oldies go to coffin dodge, I don't have any data on how many, what their wealth is, their overall impact on the Spanish economy, how much of an impact they have on the Spanish H&W systems and so forth.
I am but one person.
I'm pretty sure the Spanish wouldn't want another property market collapse, and with all the old fogies selling up all at once that market would crash like John Denver...too soon?
Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.
As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.
No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.
That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.
They're doing it with Switzerland. They already do it with Liechtenstein. And they know free movement is a political hot potato in the UK.
That would be an a la carte Single Market. Not going to happen. Liechenstein is the size of my hearth rug. They get a pass. Switzerland tried to row back from FoM and are being tortured until they give in.
Syed Kamall seems to think its possible. He should know what are red lines, and what aren't.
His solution appears to be for the UK to introduce ID cards, switch to a health insurance system of health care and end social security. None of which required leaving the EU or even getting the EU to water down its commitment to FoM.
No. He's saying that free movement is not a uniform system across member states.
Yes because different European countries have radically different systems not because they have negotiated special opt outs with the Commission. The UK could have those same restrictions on FoM but only if we drastically change our own system. We are not going to be able to keep our current set up and negotiate restricted FoM.
It's possible to argue that we might actually have to carry out some politically painful but necessary reforms to our health and welfare systems on the basis that necessity is the mother of invention.
I agree that we could have done that within the EU, but there was never any serious impetus to do so.
Allez les bleus! In the absence of any Rosbifs i've finally gone native in my adoptive country. It's been a very even game, think the Germans deserve better than 2-0 here.
France v Portugal will be interesting here, there is a huge Portuguese population in Paris (240,000).
Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?
Still a Leicester City player in there! I would support Portugal if Ronaldo wasn't such a twat.
On the subject of women leaders, I dont think there is anything in it. More women vote Labour than Conservative because women know which party is supportive of them.
Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?
Some would say there is, but I don't think so. Leaders don't come along all that often, so probably means little.
The anomaly is Corbyn, because the Labour Party got in a time warp. They could have easily had a female leader in 2010 or 2015.
What's more interesting is that the female candidates in the Tory races take their chances.
Allez les bleus! In the absence of any Rosbifs i've finally gone native in my adoptive country. It's been a very even game, think the Germans deserve better than 2-0 here.
France v Portugal will be interesting here, there is a huge Portuguese population in Paris (240,000).
Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?
Still a Leicester City player in there! I would support Portugal if Ronaldo wasn't such a twat.
On the subject of women leaders, I dont think there is anything in it. More women vote Labour than Conservative because women know wich party is supportive of them.
Ronaldo is without doubt a twat, but I'm warming to him because of his interactions with fans. The youtube clip of him and the cheeky ballboy trying to get a selfie is really good.
Been a good few weeks for the French, knocked Germany out of the European Championships and overtaken the UK as the 5th largest economy on some measures
Been a good few weeks for the French, knocked Germany out of the European Championships and overtaken the UK as the 5th largest economy on some measures
Indeed. A victory for the French and for all Francophiles.
Jeremy Clarkson will be happy.
And had their "surrender monkey" behaviour over Iraq rather thoroughly vindicated, don't forget. Shame about Tsonga.
Allez les bleus! In the absence of any Rosbifs i've finally gone native in my adoptive country. It's been a very even game, think the Germans deserve better than 2-0 here.
France v Portugal will be interesting here, there is a huge Portuguese population in Paris (240,000).
Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?
Still a Leicester City player in there! I would support Portugal if Ronaldo wasn't such a twat.
On the subject of women leaders, I dont think there is anything in it. More women vote Labour than Conservative because women know which party is supportive of them.
IPSOS MORI will tell you that the Tories had a 4 point lead with women at the general election. They got 38% of the male vote and 37% of the female vote... not a very big difference.
France. A great nation that will win the European Championship, and be healed by it. Superb.
A Remainer AND a lover of France?
Have we NOTHING in common
France was, is, and will be the greatest nation on Earth. Most of that is down to pure luck. Geography. They should stop being so miserable. When God* handed out countries they were at the front of the queue.
Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?
Some would say there is, but I don't think so. Leaders don't come along all that often, so probably means little.
The anomaly is Corbyn, because the Labour Party got in a time warp. They could have easily had a female leader in 2010 or 2015.
What's more interesting is that the female candidates in the Tory races take their chances.
2010 – Blimey, apart from Ms Abbott I’ve forgotten who stood – care to jolt an old memory ?
The UK has the upper hand on this, since expats are mostly retirees spending their pensions in crisis stricken countries who desperately need cash, those countries can't really afford giving the boot to them.
Spain, Gibraltar
FPT...
Hmm. Tourism accounts for about 11% of Spain's GDP. Spain gets almost 13 million visitors from the UK each year. (we are the number 1 visitors!)
When Turkey shot down the Russian jet earlier this year, Putin told Russians not to go there on holiday. It had a HUGE effect on Turkey, which has now ( I understand) apologised to Russia.
I imagine the sudden loss of British tourists - if things escalated - would hurt Spain.
Why would Spain not continue to encourage British tourism ? What they would not want to do is provide services to UK expats.
"A recent survey reports strong expat demand for Spanish property originating mostly from the UK, Germany and Scandinavia, along with market activity from other northerly countries. However, as Brexit approaches, there’s increased nervousness about the outcome, with fears of the UK leaving the EU causing reluctance to complete purchases. Tied up with Brexit fears are concerns over currency rates, also influenced by the possible outcome of the referendum on June 23. At the present time, the fall in sterling to around €1.2 has meant an increase in real-time costs for would-be buyers, and the rate is expected to decline further during the remainder of 2016. Another reason for hesitation as regards purchasing property in Spain is that, should Brexit succeed, real estate prices would be slashed to an all-time low. A glut on the expat homes market caused by the loss of EU citizenship and several years of uncertainty as to the status of British residents in Spain would force prices still lower, decreasing short-term capital gains on a purchase."
Been a good few weeks for the French, knocked Germany out of the European Championships and overtaken the UK as the 5th largest economy on some measures
Been a good few weeks for the French, knocked Germany out of the European Championships and overtaken the UK as the 5th largest economy on some measures
Indeed. A victory for the French and for all Francophiles.
Jeremy Clarkson will be happy.
And had their "surrender monkey" behaviour over Iraq rather thoroughly vindicated, don't forget. Shame about Tsonga.
Yes, saw the end of the Tsonga match on centre court yesterday, was a great match and he pushed Murray close
Been a good few weeks for the French, knocked Germany out of the European Championships and overtaken the UK as the 5th largest economy on some measures
Been a good few weeks for the French, knocked Germany out of the European Championships and overtaken the UK as the 5th largest economy on some measures
Indeed. A victory for the French and for all Francophiles.
Jeremy Clarkson will be happy.
Indeed a great victory for Les Bleus and as you say may help lift the French out of their recent malaise
Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?
Some would say there is, but I don't think so. Leaders don't come along all that often, so probably means little.
The anomaly is Corbyn, because the Labour Party got in a time warp. They could have easily had a female leader in 2010 or 2015.
What's more interesting is that the female candidates in the Tory races take their chances.
2010 – Blimey, apart from Ms Abbott I’ve forgotten who stood – care to jolt an old memory ?
Milliband, Milliband, Burnham, Balls and Abbott (to hold the fort for the much derided resurgence of the left, OBVIOUSLY never going to happen)
Apart from the express is there any other paper that will back Leadsom
Leave.eu are already shifting into high gear supporting her, the more papers that back May the stronger the "anti-establishment" line will get pushed. For a former banker.....wait, that worked recently...
Yes, safe pair of hands - especcially for uk citizens living in the EU. Makes me wonder how right wing Leadsome actually is.
As I remember it was May and not Leadsom that made the UK's EU citizens a bargaining chip.
No it was the EU (Juncker) by getting in a huff and refusing to discuss such matters until article 50 is tabled. May is only asking for a quid pro quo.
That is flat out not going to happen. It would destroy the EU, they cannot agree to it (or at least not framed in those blunt terms). Needs much more fudge.
While I understand the reason for its use, I feel twitter is not the best place for people to make such pronouncements - no room for fudge or nuance, so all you do is create a bunch of statements for people to hold over your head later.
Leadsom isn't interested in creating the best possible conditions for negotiations. She just wants to become Tory leader. She also doesn't believe it is necessary for their to be good conditions for negotiations because she's under the impression that we hold all the aces and have the EU over a barrel.
She spent several years talking to EU partners about possible reforms for the EU. She should have an idea if free movement is something they can move on.
It is all about being seen to respect the Four Freedoms. If we 'respect' freedom of labour, but restrict it by requiring people to buy health insurance (as we already do for non-working "self sufficient" EEA nationals) then we would dramatically reduce the number of people coming. While respecting the Four Freedoms.
True. I hope that the next PM has the drive to push these things through.
Not a chance Labour will scream privatising the NHS by the back door, never mind it isn't true.
Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?
Some would say there is, but I don't think so. Leaders don't come along all that often, so probably means little.
The anomaly is Corbyn, because the Labour Party got in a time warp. They could have easily had a female leader in 2010 or 2015.
What's more interesting is that the female candidates in the Tory races take their chances.
2010 – Blimey, apart from Ms Abbott I’ve forgotten who stood – care to jolt an old memory ?
The Milibands, Ed Balls and Burnham. I thought Burnham was best. I was such a fool.
Allez les bleus! In the absence of any Rosbifs i've finally gone native in my adoptive country. It's been a very even game, think the Germans deserve better than 2-0 here.
France v Portugal will be interesting here, there is a huge Portuguese population in Paris (240,000).
Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?
Still a Leicester City player in there! I would support Portugal if Ronaldo wasn't such a twat.
On the subject of women leaders, I dont think there is anything in it. More women vote Labour than Conservative because women know wich party is supportive of them.
Ronaldo is without doubt a twat, but I'm warming to him because of his interactions with fans. The youtube clip of him and the cheeky ballboy trying to get a selfie is really good.
Ronaldo is so vain that even Carly Simon thinks that song is about him.
@janemerrick23: I hope one of the papers is doing a "How the Husbands Measure Up" on the Tory leadership contest tomorrow.
Well the BBC's piece comparing the two does include a section on their respective husbands, so I wouldn't be surprised if a paper did a piece like that at some point.
Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?
Some would say there is, but I don't think so. Leaders don't come along all that often, so probably means little.
The anomaly is Corbyn, because the Labour Party got in a time warp. They could have easily had a female leader in 2010 or 2015.
What's more interesting is that the female candidates in the Tory races take their chances.
2010 – Blimey, apart from Ms Abbott I’ve forgotten who stood – care to jolt an old memory ?
Milliband, Milliband, Burnham, Balls and Abbott (to hold the fort for the much derided resurgence of the left, OBVIOUSLY never going to happen)
And Abbott also only got on the ballot thanks to loaned nominations, as I recall, and explicitly because she was a woman and no other reason, as someone with more nominations pulled out to let her through.
Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?
Some would say there is, but I don't think so. Leaders don't come along all that often, so probably means little.
The anomaly is Corbyn, because the Labour Party got in a time warp. They could have easily had a female leader in 2010 or 2015.
What's more interesting is that the female candidates in the Tory races take their chances.
2010 – Blimey, apart from Ms Abbott I’ve forgotten who stood – care to jolt an old memory ?
Milliband, Milliband, Burnham, Balls and Abbott (to hold the fort for the much derided resurgence of the left, OBVIOUSLY never going to happen)
And Abbott also only got on the ballot thanks to loaned nominations, as I recall, and explicitly because she was a woman and no other reason, as someone with more nominations pulled out to let her through.
That someone was John McDonnell!! I'd complete forgotten.
I'm pretty sure the Spanish wouldn't want another property market collapse, and with all the old fogies selling up all at once that market would crash like John Denver...too soon?
In Southern Spain, especially away from the coast, properties already sell for the cost of their materials. There was an American hedge fund that bought up developments wholesale, stripped them, gutted them, sold the tiles and sinks and bricks and copper, and made a healthy profit.
I don't think the price on those properties is going much lower.
Now, property in Malaga and Marbella, maybe that could come down some. But you can already get nice 600 sq ft two bedroom apartments five minutes from the sea for under EUR100,000 (probably down 75%), so I think that one is pretty played out.
Allez les bleus! In the absence of any Rosbifs i've finally gone native in my adoptive country. It's been a very even game, think the Germans deserve better than 2-0 here.
France v Portugal will be interesting here, there is a huge Portuguese population in Paris (240,000).
Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?
Still a Leicester City player in there! I would support Portugal if Ronaldo wasn't such a twat.
On the subject of women leaders, I dont think there is anything in it. More women vote Labour than Conservative because women know wich party is supportive of them.
Ronaldo is without doubt a twat, but I'm warming to him because of his interactions with fans. The youtube clip of him and the cheeky ballboy trying to get a selfie is really good.
Ronaldo is so vain that even Carly Simon thinks that song is about him.
Apart from the express is there any other paper that will back Leadsom
Leave.eu are already shifting into high gear supporting her, the more papers that back May the stronger the "anti-establishment" line will get pushed. For a former banker.....wait, that worked recently...
Not sure that they will help her. She needs to distance herself from UKIP
France. A great nation that will win the European Championship, and be healed by it. Superb.
A Remainer AND a lover of France?
Have we NOTHING in common
France was, is, and will be the greatest nation on Earth. Most of that is down to pure luck. Geography. They should stop being so miserable. When God* handed out countries they were at the front of the queue.
*I'm a confirmed atheist. But you catch my drift.
It's a beautiful country fair enough. Makes some lovely things as well. Very high up in terms of culture. I've worked with some very nice people too.
The political culture really turns me off though. Historically France has cynically manipulated the EU to get what they want, has a deep strain of being anti "Anglo-Saxon", and has caused more strife on the continent of Europe in the last 500+ years than any other nation.
I feel warmth for all of the other countries of Europe, but France leaves me cold. Still, it gives me an insight into how many Scots feel about England.
Has anyone yet offered an explanation of Leadsom's "Brexit hasn't hit the pound, the markets just failed to anticipate the referendum result" nonsense yet?
Because when I go there, I find a country that has gone from poverty stricken fascist dictatorship when I was born, to modern bustling economy with some of the best companies in Europe.
Yes, I hang around with the 'elites'. Most 'elites' think they deserve to be there. In Spain, the people who run the companies still marvel at their good fortune. There's a humbleness lacking in (say) the French or the Italians (or even the Brits). Underneath it all is a fear that, if they're not careful, there'll be another Franco.
Has anyone yet offered an explanation of Leadsom's "Brexit hasn't hit the pound, the markets just failed to anticipate the referendum result" nonsense yet?
To be fair, with a line like that she deserves to be a fund manager.
Has anyone yet offered an explanation of Leadsom's "Brexit hasn't hit the pound, the markets just failed to anticipate the referendum result" nonsense yet?
On Conservative Home, the comments after Leadsom's speech were 50/50. After May's speech, all against. The Swivel eyed will vote. IDS, at the time, unknown, beat Clarke. Is a surprise in the offing?
Apart from the express is there any other paper that will back Leadsom
Leave.eu are already shifting into high gear supporting her, the more papers that back May the stronger the "anti-establishment" line will get pushed. For a former banker.....wait, that worked recently...
Not sure that they will help her. She needs to distance herself from UKIP
Apart from the express is there any other paper that will back Leadsom
Leave.eu are already shifting into high gear supporting her, the more papers that back May the stronger the "anti-establishment" line will get pushed. For a former banker.....wait, that worked recently...
Not sure that they will help her. She needs to distance herself from UKIP
Nah! Tory members like UKIP. Think Corbyn and Labour party. Members are the extremists.
On Conservative Home, the comments after Leadsom's speech were 50/50. After May's speech, all against. The Swivel eyed will vote. IDS, at the time, unknown, beat Clarke. Is a surprise in the offing?
Well, in last year's Labour contest, Labourlist right from the early stages had Corbyn winning their "voodoo polls" by landslides and adulation from the comments sections.
At the beginning of the contest, that was all dismissed as an unrepresentative sample of the membership....
Apart from the express is there any other paper that will back Leadsom
Leave.eu are already shifting into high gear supporting her, the more papers that back May the stronger the "anti-establishment" line will get pushed. For a former banker.....wait, that worked recently...
Not sure that they will help her. She needs to distance herself from UKIP
Nah! Tory members like UKIP. Think Corbyn and Labour party. Members are the extremists.
This Tory member does not like UKIP.
Never let facts get in the way of your inbuilt prejudices though.
Comments
It seems that you can't be right on everything, France beaten Germany.
" Some voted leave since they were against all immigration, more immigration, or the unfairness of the current immigration system that discriminates against the 6.5 billion non-EU citizens who may have a major contribution to make. Between the extremes of closed borders and completely open borders, we should be looking for a controlled but fair immigration system that ends this passport discrimination.
We also need to take account of the large number of British people living in the EU and EU nationals living in Britain. British or EU expats concerned about the extra red tape already know that even EU free movement is not entirely free. EU migrants must either have a job or the ability to finance themselves, and in many countries they must register for ID cards, have medical insurance and so on. This agreement will be one of the most politically and technically sensitive areas to negotiate but I believe it to be the solution that most closely respects the outcome of the referendum."
http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2016/07/syed-kamall-with-self-belief-and-hard-work-we-can-make-the-most-of-leaving-the-eu.html
"I'm sorry sir, you were of course quite right. I'm really, really, really, sorry. Would you like a cup of tea?"
Hmm. Tourism accounts for about 11% of Spain's GDP. Spain gets almost 13 million visitors from the UK each year. (we are the number 1 visitors!)
When Turkey shot down the Russian jet earlier this year, Putin told Russians not to go there on holiday. It had a HUGE effect on Turkey, which has now ( I understand) apologised to Russia.
I imagine the sudden loss of British tourists - if things escalated - would hurt Spain.
I think we need a break from chancer PMs. I am gonna vote May.
As an aside, Greece is unbelievably cheap right now. We'll be going to Corfu for another week over the summer
France v Portugal will be interesting here, there is a huge Portuguese population in Paris (240,000).
Anyway (vaguely) on-topic, is there anything in the fact that the tories have elected women twice to be PM and labour zero? Coincidence or is there perhaps some sort of reason behind it?
Jeremy Clarkson will be happy.
The reason I can't suggest anything is that other than the meme that Spain is where our poorer oldies go to coffin dodge, I don't have any data on how many, what their wealth is, their overall impact on the Spanish economy, how much of an impact they have on the Spanish H&W systems and so forth.
I am but one person.
I.E. We're not going to be asking for Calais back from France, either.
Going to Spain after they kicked out all the Brits would be seen as deeply unpatriotic. Don't underestimate British patriotism!
I agree that we could have done that within the EU, but there was never any serious impetus to do so.
Have we NOTHING in common
On the subject of women leaders, I dont think there is anything in it. More women vote Labour than Conservative because women know which party is supportive of them.
What's more interesting is that the female candidates in the Tory races take their chances.
3 lefties, 1 Conservative and Ian Hislop.
3 Remainers, 1 LEAVE and Ian Hislop.
http://order-order.com/2016/07/07/question-time-tonight-26-2/
*I'm a confirmed atheist. But you catch my drift.
The Apprentice. team Take Back Control have given away Freedom of Movement...
http://www.expatsblog.com/news/1105166797/spanish-real-estate-market-expects-confusion-during-2016
"A recent survey reports strong expat demand for Spanish property originating mostly from the UK, Germany and Scandinavia, along with market activity from other northerly countries. However, as Brexit approaches, there’s increased nervousness about the outcome, with fears of the UK leaving the EU causing reluctance to complete purchases. Tied up with Brexit fears are concerns over currency rates, also influenced by the possible outcome of the referendum on June 23. At the present time, the fall in sterling to around €1.2 has meant an increase in real-time costs for would-be buyers, and the rate is expected to decline further during the remainder of 2016. Another reason for hesitation as regards purchasing property in Spain is that, should Brexit succeed, real estate prices would be slashed to an all-time low. A glut on the expat homes market caused by the loss of EU citizenship and several years of uncertainty as to the status of British residents in Spain would force prices still lower, decreasing short-term capital gains on a purchase."
PB - your one stop shop for self awareness.
I don't think the price on those properties is going much lower.
Now, property in Malaga and Marbella, maybe that could come down some. But you can already get nice 600 sq ft two bedroom apartments five minutes from the sea for under EUR100,000 (probably down 75%), so I think that one is pretty played out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notting_Hill_set
Leadsom was "a former protege of George Osborne"
WTF!
Clearly unaware of the "fuck off George" incident in the tea rooms and the personal criticism she made on a HoC committee of Osborne (Balls incident) which held back her first appointment to a Govt role by several years...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-leadership-race-george-osborne-blocked-andrea-leadsom-from-cabinet-after-she-told-him-to-say-7116046.html
The political culture really turns me off though. Historically France has cynically manipulated the EU to get what they want, has a deep strain of being anti "Anglo-Saxon", and has caused more strife on the continent of Europe in the last 500+ years than any other nation.
I feel warmth for all of the other countries of Europe, but France leaves me cold. Still, it gives me an insight into how many Scots feel about England.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/white_house_watch
Pew Clinton 51 Trump 42 (June 15-26)
http://www.people-press.org/files/2016/07/07-07-16-Voter-attitudes-topline-for-release.pdf
Because when I go there, I find a country that has gone from poverty stricken fascist dictatorship when I was born, to modern bustling economy with some of the best companies in Europe.
Yes, I hang around with the 'elites'. Most 'elites' think they deserve to be there. In Spain, the people who run the companies still marvel at their good fortune. There's a humbleness lacking in (say) the French or the Italians (or even the Brits). Underneath it all is a fear that, if they're not careful, there'll be another Franco.
This is not Australia. This is not the United States.
Football teams are not singular.
How many chances HAVE Germany missed?
At the beginning of the contest, that was all dismissed as an unrepresentative sample of the membership....
Never let facts get in the way of your inbuilt prejudices though.