politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Alastair Meeks on the political and economic crises of bre

Andrew Neil @afneil
Moody's downgrades British banks. British bank stocks rise for 2nd day in a row. Does anybody care about ratings agencies these days?

The Labour leadership problems has at least given momentum something to do apart from call for a second E.U ref.

SandyRentool said:

bigjohnowls said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

@iainjwatson: Andy Burnham hasn't asked Jeremy Corbyn to resign and isn't at this stage resigning himself

LOL - so just a cosy cup of early evening tea while watching the cricket then? Not a single backbone between the lot of them!

Well if AB could be persuaded to run he would have best chance.

Are you sat down

I would vote for him this time to save the party

But would you now vote Anyone But Corbyn?

I have reached Anyone Decent territory, regardless of left-right position - but I don't rate Eagle as Decent.

I would vote for Corbyn in almost every scenario I can think of.

I would likely desert him if AB was the other candidate

bigjohnowls said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

@iainjwatson: Andy Burnham hasn't asked Jeremy Corbyn to resign and isn't at this stage resigning himself

LOL - so just a cosy cup of early evening tea while watching the cricket then? Not a single backbone between the lot of them!

Well if AB could be persuaded to run he would have best chance.

Are you sat down

I would vote for him this time to save the party

Thanks BJO.

That's really interesting.

SandyRentool said:

bigjohnowls said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

@iainjwatson: Andy Burnham hasn't asked Jeremy Corbyn to resign and isn't at this stage resigning himself

LOL - so just a cosy cup of early evening tea while watching the cricket then? Not a single backbone between the lot of them!

Well if AB could be persuaded to run he would have best chance.

Are you sat down

I would vote for him this time to save the party

But would you now vote Anyone But Corbyn?

I have reached Anyone Decent territory, regardless of left-right position - but I don't rate Eagle as Decent.

Because of Corbyns actions, the future is bleak for Labour however it plays out. It will be a miracle if Labour can pull it back.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/29/us-markets.html

The Nasdaq is up, even in dollar terms..........

Anecdote (3): At the event I attended today, there was a speaker from the European Commission. The chair of the session dryly said "Welcome to the UK!".

SandyRentool said:

Pong said:

bigjohnowls said:

AE has less than a 5% chance of winning IMO

TW would maybe have a 25% chance

If JC gives Mcdonnell the nod, do you think corbyn's support transfers straight across?

Basically, how much of Corbyn's vote is personal rather than ideological?

I don't think the bulk of the PLP would want McDonnell on the ballot (because he would probably win), but would be OK with Lewis or Catwoman.

Maybe by Friday, they would accept McDonnell.

I'm stil holding out hope for Clive Lewis. It seems the only way out of this insane mess.

My perspective, strengthened from having read Owen Jones' latest article on Medium: JC's team, and most of his supporters, aren't dedicated to Jeremy Corbyn leading the Labour party into the next election. Rather, they (and I include myself in this) are determined that there be no return to the spin-driven politics of 2000s New Labour, and complete inability in 2010 and 2015 to offer a meaningful alternative to neoliberal ideology that had demonstrably failed.

Even among many fervent Momentum types, I think there's a recognition that JC has certain inadequacies as a campaigning leader. It is, after all, widely known that he only stood last summer because he was talked into taking his turn as the 'left candidate'.

But JC is the leader. He, and only he, can take that incumbent's place on the ballot paper. If he resigns, all is lost.

Unless, one of JC's loyal allies can be nominated, so that the contest cannot be stitched up to freeze out the anti-austerity, anti-war left. Once that candidate's nomination is irrevocably in place, I see no reason why JC cannot then resign and instruct his supporters to back the continuity candidate. Essentially, bringing forward the plan described by Owen Jones from 2018.

Nothing has changed except the frontman, but the MPs who have resigned in this hare-brained coup can serve under the new leader where serving under a renewed Corbyn leadership would be untenable.

McDonnell is perhaps the obvious choice, but he has a lot of the same broad-appeal-limiting baggage as Corbyn. Clive Lewis ticks a lot of boxes: prior tour of duty in Afghanistan, media savvy, lots of youth appeal, grew up on a council estate. I've seen others flag him up on here, I'm struggling to see a down-side.

But, it would require much of the PLP to put their egos to one side and respect JC's mandate from the members, so it probably won't happen.

Jonathan said:

SandyRentool said:

bigjohnowls said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

@iainjwatson: Andy Burnham hasn't asked Jeremy Corbyn to resign and isn't at this stage resigning himself

LOL - so just a cosy cup of early evening tea while watching the cricket then? Not a single backbone between the lot of them!

Well if AB could be persuaded to run he would have best chance.

Are you sat down

I would vote for him this time to save the party

But would you now vote Anyone But Corbyn?

I have reached Anyone Decent territory, regardless of left-right position - but I don't rate Eagle as Decent.

Because of Corbyns actions, the future is bleak for Labour however it plays out. It will be a miracle if Labour can pull it back.

I agree with your sentance but think the word Corbyn should be replaced by PLP

OllyT said:

So the future of the UK for the next couple of generations is in the hands of the Tory membership in Little-Snoring-in-the-Marsh average age 70+. What could possibly go wrong?

Would you prefer it to be in the hands of the Momentum yoof?

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Before 9am "Alastair Meeks on the political and economic crises of breathtaking proportions"

After 5pm. UK stock markets up, some above pre Brexit level

Crisis. what fecking crisis?

This is pointless on both sides, the effects of Brexit, for good or ill, are going to take months if not years to become apparent.

The Finnish foreign minister just said on Sky there should be "no red lines" when negotiating with Britain, the remainers need to calm down.

OllyT said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Before 9am "Alastair Meeks on the political and economic crises of breathtaking proportions"

After 5pm. UK stock markets up, some above pre Brexit level

Crisis. what fecking crisis?

This is pointless on both sides, the effects of Brexit, for good or ill, are going to take months if not years to become apparent.

Not what Remainers were saying Friday - Monday.

bigjohnowls said:

Jobabob said:

bigjohnowls said:

SandyRentool said:

bigjohnowls said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

@iainjwatson: Andy Burnham hasn't asked Jeremy Corbyn to resign and isn't at this stage resigning himself

LOL - so just a cosy cup of early evening tea while watching the cricket then? Not a single backbone between the lot of them!

Well if AB could be persuaded to run he would have best chance.

Are you sat down

I would vote for him this time to save the party

But would you now vote Anyone But Corbyn?

I have reached Anyone Decent territory, regardless of left-right position - but I don't rate Eagle as Decent.

I would vote for Corbyn in almost every scenario I can think of.

I would likely desert him if AB was the other candidate

I am probably being stupid but I can't think who AB is!!!

Andy Burnham

God no. Pathetic performance this week.

handandmouse said:

Unless, one of JC's loyal allies can be nominated, so that the contest cannot be stitched up to freeze out the anti-austerity, anti-war left. Once that candidate's nomination is irrevocably in place, I see no reason why JC cannot then resign and instruct his supporters to back the continuity candidate. Essentially, bringing forward the plan described by Owen Jones from 2018.

Very interesting - if Angela gets the 50, presumably someone else can also challenge if they can get 50 too? Clive Lewis does seem the obvious choice and he has the considerable advantage of carrying my money, albeit at a what is now a poor 33/1.

handandmouse said:

SandyRentool said:

Pong said:

bigjohnowls said:

AE has less than a 5% chance of winning IMO

TW would maybe have a 25% chance

If JC gives Mcdonnell the nod, do you think corbyn's support transfers straight across?

Basically, how much of Corbyn's vote is personal rather than ideological?

I don't think the bulk of the PLP would want McDonnell on the ballot (because he would probably win), but would be OK with Lewis or Catwoman.

Maybe by Friday, they would accept McDonnell.

I'm stil holding out hope for Clive Lewis. It seems the only way out of this insane mess.

My perspective, strengthened from having read Owen Jones' latest article on Medium: JC's team, and most of his supporters, aren't dedicated to Jeremy Corbyn leading the Labour party into the next election. Rather, they (and I include myself in this) are determined that there be no return to the spin-driven politics of 2000s New Labour, and complete inability in 2010 and 2015 to offer a meaningful alternative to neoliberal ideology that had demonstrably failed.

Even among many fervent Momentum types, I think there's a recognition that JC has certain inadequacies as a campaigning leader. It is, after all, widely known that he only stood last summer because he was talked into taking his turn as the 'left candidate'.

But JC is the leader. He, and only he, can take that incumbent's place on the ballot paper. If he resigns, all is lost.

Unless, one of JC's loyal allies can be nominated, so that the contest cannot be stitched up to freeze out the anti-austerity, anti-war left. Once that candidate's nomination is irrevocably in place, I see no reason why JC cannot then resign and instruct his supporters to back the continuity candidate. Essentially, bringing forward the plan described by Owen Jones from 2018.

Nothing has changed except the frontman, but the MPs who have resigned in this hare-brained coup can serve under the new leader where serving under a renewed Corbyn leadership would be untenable.

McDonnell is perhaps the obvious choice, but he has a lot of the same broad-appeal-limiting baggage as Corbyn. Clive Lewis ticks a lot of boxes: prior tour of duty in Afghanistan, media savvy, lots of youth appeal, grew up on a council estate. I've seen others flag him up on here, I'm struggling to see a down-side.

But, it would require much of the PLP to put their egos to one side and respect JC's mandate from the members, so it probably won't happen.

Agreed I mentioned this earlier and would be my best case scenario.

Although of course he is less well known and would not retain all Corbynite vote so I would be scared of ending up with a right winger

SeanT said:

Jonathan said:

SandyRentool said:

bigjohnowls said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

@iainjwatson: Andy Burnham hasn't asked Jeremy Corbyn to resign and isn't at this stage resigning himself

LOL - so just a cosy cup of early evening tea while watching the cricket then? Not a single backbone between the lot of them!

Well if AB could be persuaded to run he would have best chance.

Are you sat down

I would vote for him this time to save the party

But would you now vote Anyone But Corbyn?

I have reached Anyone Decent territory, regardless of left-right position - but I don't rate Eagle as Decent.

Because of Corbyns actions, the future is bleak for Labour however it plays out. It will be a miracle if Labour can pull it back.

I think Labour is likely doomed now. An incredible collapse. They will become the rump party of London and the metrosexuals, as the Liberals became the legacy party of Celts and non-conformists.

And still NPXMP doesn't see this disaster, staring him in the face.

It's bizarre. Oh well. What can you do.

SeanT said:

John_M said:

SeanT said:

Anecdotage:

Just been to a school meeting in leafyish north London, about my daughter and her cohort going up to Year 7 etc etc

Lots of very north Londony parents there - architects, journalists, teachers, academics - sort of meeting where a parent uses the word "algorithm" and everyone understands and nods.

i.e. probably 80% Guardian readers and graduates.

So I expected them to be in tears and despair, yet not. They seemed sanguine. When I asked a couple of them about the vote they smiled, a little ruefully, like it was no worse than England losing the footie, then they chatted happily about something else.

Hmm. Is this stoical middle England showing its mettle, and I am an hysterical twit, or are they just completely uninformed, and my idiotic hysteria is still justified?

Intriguing.

If you're not a stock market pundit or a currency speculator, nothing has, as yet, happened. Just an metric buttload of 'this might happen and 'that might happen'.

My anecdote for the day: my Mum has completed her political journey from being tribal Labour to thinking Daniel Hannan is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Truly, we are living in the Age of Miracles.

Yes, I'd really like to believe they're right and I'm wrong. Trouble is I think I'm right. The bad shit isn't here yet, but it's in the post.

Hmm, I'm not trying to persuade you, just musing about this. There's almost certainly going to be a mild recession (though I can't find the primary figures on that Credit Suisse forecast quoted earlier).

Leaving that aside, there are currently 31.6 million people in work. There were a whole bunch of reports about the number of EU dependent jobs; anywhere from 3 million to 4.4 million. Not all directly dependent necessarily, and the split is arguable. Let's say that up to 12% of the workforce depend on the EU in one way or another. While there might be spillover effects, at least that puts it into perspective.

The biggest factor is going to be confidence (business and consumer). It just comes down to whether people are prepared to carry on spending or investing. It's too early to say.

Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

O/T When are the boundary changes supposed to happen? Or have they been scrapped?

2018 I think. Not scrapped but may become moot.

anotherDave said:

bunnco said:

Just back from attending the Norfolk Show, highlight of our social calendar here in the countryside. I asked 89 people amongst the 'Great and the Good" the 'forced choice" of who would they support Boris or Theresa. Astonishingly 87 expressed a preference for Theresa. When I told the second Boris-supporter who the first one was, what changed her mind. There was a 50/50 mix of inners and outers.

Yesterday in my Council Group, with a majority of Brexiters, only one opted for Boris.

On this show , Boris cannot even start thinking of taking the provinces for granted and has a real mountain to climb to make progress in the sticks.

Bunnco Your Man on the Spot

Worrying. I thought being a Remain supporter would be a handicap with Con members.

Fingers crossed for Leadsom!

I was at a Shires do the other day. The guest speaker and host both prominent in their way, a picture of each you would find in the dictionary under: "true blue Conservative, couldn't get bluer".

Speaker for Remain, host for Leave.

TOPPING said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

TOPPING said:

MaxPB said:

TOPPING said:

EU says kettles must have boiling temperature of 99-100C. We manufacture kettles with maximum boiling temperature of 98.9C. Norway manufactures kettles with maximum boiling temperature of 99.1C.

EEA agreement or no EEA agreement?

No agreement.

So it is indeed us vs Norway (and ofc Liechtenstein and Iceland).

This is an improvement?

(I suppose Iceland might give us the sympathy vote for the next four years.)

Yes because they cannot impose new rules on us just as we cannot impose new rules on them.

Sounds great to me.

Norway and Liechtenstein and Iceland each have a veto over our single market access.

Interesting post by @SandyRentool

They have a veto over our joining EFTA. Of course they do. They do not have a veto over our remaining part of the EEA as long as we join EFTA.

You do seem to be getting more and more desperate as tim,e goes on here Topping and clutching at more and more straws.

I'm going to suggest this must be unlikely...

https://twitter.com/AngrySalmond/status/748230939403239424

Jonathan said:

bigjohnowls said:

Jonathan said:

SandyRentool said:

bigjohnowls said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

@iainjwatson: Andy Burnham hasn't asked Jeremy Corbyn to resign and isn't at this stage resigning himself

LOL - so just a cosy cup of early evening tea while watching the cricket then? Not a single backbone between the lot of them!

Well if AB could be persuaded to run he would have best chance.

Are you sat down

I would vote for him this time to save the party

But would you now vote Anyone But Corbyn?

I have reached Anyone Decent territory, regardless of left-right position - but I don't rate Eagle as Decent.

Because of Corbyns actions, the future is bleak for Labour however it plays out. It will be a miracle if Labour can pull it back.

I agree with your sentance but think the word Corbyn should be replaced by PLP

You are wrong, no one man is more important than the party and the 9 million voters who depend on it.

Didnt say they were. Apportioning the blame on JC is cretinous

Richard_Tyndall said:

TOPPING said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

TOPPING said:

MaxPB said:

TOPPING said:

EU says kettles must have boiling temperature of 99-100C. We manufacture kettles with maximum boiling temperature of 98.9C. Norway manufactures kettles with maximum boiling temperature of 99.1C.

EEA agreement or no EEA agreement?

No agreement.

So it is indeed us vs Norway (and ofc Liechtenstein and Iceland).

This is an improvement?

(I suppose Iceland might give us the sympathy vote for the next four years.)

Yes because they cannot impose new rules on us just as we cannot impose new rules on them.

Sounds great to me.

Norway and Liechtenstein and Iceland each have a veto over our single market access.

Interesting post by @SandyRentool

They have a veto over our joining EFTA. Of course they do. They do not have a veto over our remaining part of the EEA as long as we join EFTA.

You do seem to be getting more and more desperate as tim,e goes on here Topping and clutching at more and more straws.

Do they have a veto over what EU legislation/regulation gets adopted into the EEA agreement?

That is my point.

Have the unions published a statement yet from the meeting they had this afternoon? Fasil Islam was getting very excitee by this earlier.

Richard_Tyndall said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

I'm going to suggest this must be unlikely...

https://twitter.com/AngrySalmond/status/748230939403239424

Not least because UKIP don't have enough Lords to make up a bench. :-)

it might be relative to their MP cohort?

@PickardJE: Compelling rumour that Pat Glass resigned (after 2 days in shadow cabinet) because she thought wrongly that Burnham was about to jump....

Sandpit said:

Now Momentum are picketing the constituency surgeries of moderate Labour MPs.
http://order-order.com/2016/06/29/labour-mp-emails-utter-disgrace-mcdonnell/

Corbyn & maomentum trying to hold the labour party hostage.

Scott_P said:

@PickardJE: Compelling rumour that Pat Glass resigned (after 2 days in shadow cabinet) because she thought wrongly that Burnham was about to jump....

and that Charlie Falconer was going to as well no doubt?

Scott_P said:

@PickardJE: Compelling rumour that Pat Glass resigned (after 2 days in shadow cabinet) because she thought wrongly that Burnham was about to jump....

Even David Laws managed a week!

@paulwaugh: Rumour that Owen Smith has had change of heart and may run for Labour leadership.

Please please please... Owen Smith £2,763.33

bigjohnowls said:

Jonathan said:

bigjohnowls said:

Jonathan said:

SandyRentool said:

bigjohnowls said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

@iainjwatson: Andy Burnham hasn't asked Jeremy Corbyn to resign and isn't at this stage resigning himself

LOL - so just a cosy cup of early evening tea while watching the cricket then? Not a single backbone between the lot of them!

Well if AB could be persuaded to run he would have best chance.

Are you sat down

I would vote for him this time to save the party

But would you now vote Anyone But Corbyn?

I have reached Anyone Decent territory, regardless of left-right position - but I don't rate Eagle as Decent.

Because of Corbyns actions, the future is bleak for Labour however it plays out. It will be a miracle if Labour can pull it back.

I agree with your sentance but think the word Corbyn should be replaced by PLP

You are wrong, no one man is more important than the party and the 9 million voters who depend on it.

Didnt say they were. Apportioning the blame on JC is cretinous

Er no. He has been a dismal leader, a far left eurosceptic in a moderate centre-left Europhile party that has helped deliver the biggest victory for the right in a generation with his equivocating and nonexistent campaigning. He is now failing to observe constitutional precedent as Loto despite losing a NCV by 172-40. The guy has a galactic sized ego and will condemn the country to a generation of Tory government, and destroy the party.

Lenin, “There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen.”

asjohnstone said:

kle4 said:

asjohnstone said:

Yeah, exciting week, but let's not make it a drama that it isn't.

The people have spoken, the EU will be left. Following this a trade deal will be reached which the people will either accept or reject.

Your last line is ambiguous to me - are you in the camp the deal needs voting on, or the people will accept or reject it through a GE vote after the fact?

Referendum seems best option, but not to revisit last week

Deal needs to be voted on but it's a binary choice, leave with deal or leave with nothing. It's leave either way, there's no going back on that.

.

A post that shows just how scared Leave are that the country has changed its mind.........

SeanT said:

Jonathan said:

bigjohnowls said:

Jonathan said:

bigjohnowls said:

Jonathan said:

SandyRentool said:

bigjohnowls said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

@iainjwatson: Andy Burnham hasn't asked Jeremy Corbyn to resign and isn't at this stage resigning himself

LOL - so just a cosy cup of early evening tea while watching the cricket then? Not a single backbone between the lot of them!

Well if AB could be persuaded to run he would have best chance.

Are you sat down

I would vote for him this time to save the party

But would you now vote Anyone But Corbyn?

I have reached Anyone Decent territory, regardless of left-right position - but I don't rate Eagle as Decent.

Because of Corbyns actions, the future is bleak for Labour however it plays out. It will be a miracle if Labour can pull it back.

I agree with your sentance but think the word Corbyn should be replaced by PLP

You are wrong, no one man is more important than the party and the 9 million voters who depend on it.

Didnt say they were. Apportioning the blame on JC is cretinous

No need to be rude. Responsibility is the price of leadership. This is Corbyns Labour, the blame is his and no-one else's.

Also his insane followers, some of whom are completely vile (not my Corbynite friends, they're just naive simpletons)

At the last rally there was a man with a charming t-shirt on. If you replaced the word Blairites with immigrants he would most likely have ended up in court.

Can anyone imagine Corbyn in number 10 holed up in his bunker? Would refuse to listen to anyone who didn't share his own view.

He's doing massive damage to the party now, but I think the myth about his decency and humility is beginning to wear thin.

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Scott_P said:

@PickardJE: Compelling rumour that Pat Glass resigned (after 2 days in shadow cabinet) because she thought wrongly that Burnham was about to jump....

and that Charlie Falconer was going to as well no doubt?

Glass should know better than to listen to idle Westminster gossip.

Jonathan said:

SeanT said:

Jonathan said:

SandyRentool said:

bigjohnowls said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

@iainjwatson: Andy Burnham hasn't asked Jeremy Corbyn to resign and isn't at this stage resigning himself

LOL - so just a cosy cup of early evening tea while watching the cricket then? Not a single backbone between the lot of them!

Well if AB could be persuaded to run he would have best chance.

Are you sat down

I would vote for him this time to save the party

But would you now vote Anyone But Corbyn?

I have reached Anyone Decent territory, regardless of left-right position - but I don't rate Eagle as Decent.

Because of Corbyns actions, the future is bleak for Labour however it plays out. It will be a miracle if Labour can pull it back.

I think Labour is likely doomed now. An incredible collapse. They will become the rump party of London and the metrosexuals, as the Liberals became the legacy party of Celts and non-conformists.

And still NPXMP doesn't see this disaster, staring him in the face.

It's bizarre. Oh well. What can you do.

The fact you agree with ST is bizzare. Lewis or Burnham would give the PLP a chance of defeating JC IMO

As i have already said i would vote for either of those two to save the party.

Cant think of anyone else though.

AE is surely scraping the barrel a poor4th of 5 in deputy contest 9 months ago FFS beaten by Flint Creasey and TW

Tissue_Price said:

@paulwaugh: Rumour that Owen Smith has had change of heart and may run for Labour leadership.

Please please please... Owen Smith £2,763.33

"On 9 January 2016, he voiced an interest in eventually standing for Labour Leadership, saying it would be an "incredible honour and privilege" to do the job." (Wikipedia)

bigjohnowls said:

Jonathan said:

SeanT said:

Jonathan said:

SandyRentool said:

bigjohnowls said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

@iainjwatson: Andy Burnham hasn't asked Jeremy Corbyn to resign and isn't at this stage resigning himself

LOL - so just a cosy cup of early evening tea while watching the cricket then? Not a single backbone between the lot of them!

Well if AB could be persuaded to run he would have best chance.

Are you sat down

I would vote for him this time to save the party

But would you now vote Anyone But Corbyn?

I have reached Anyone Decent territory, regardless of left-right position - but I don't rate Eagle as Decent.

Because of Corbyns actions, the future is bleak for Labour however it plays out. It will be a miracle if Labour can pull it back.

I think Labour is likely doomed now. An incredible collapse. They will become the rump party of London and the metrosexuals, as the Liberals became the legacy party of Celts and non-conformists.

And still NPXMP doesn't see this disaster, staring him in the face.

It's bizarre. Oh well. What can you do.

The fact you agree with ST is bizzare. Lewis or Burnham would give the PLP a chance of defeating JC IMO

As i have already said i would vote for either of those two to save the party.

Cant think of anyone else though.

AE is surely scraping the barrel a poor4th of 5 in deputy contest 9 months ago FFS beaten by Flint Creasey and TW

The party is dead with Corbyn. Because of that and only because of that literally anyone is better now.

OllyT said:

steve_garner said:

Older people cared enough to vote. Or are you saying there should be an age limit.

OllyT said:

So the future of the UK for the next couple of generations is in the hands of the Tory membership in Little-Snoring-in-the-Marsh average age 70+. What could possibly go wrong?

isn't it marvellous to have our sovereignty back so that a small group of mainly superannuated OAP's can "take back control" and decide the direction of the country for the next couple of generations. (I'm an OAP so believe me I know how totally out of touch with the modern world most are).

If the young voters can't be arsed to get out and vote they have no right to complain.

I have had to put up with being part of the EU for 43 years because I was too young to vote last time. I hopefully have as much time again on this earth and I am very happy to have been able to vote to Leave.

SeanT said:

Jobabob said:

asjohnstone said:

kle4 said:

asjohnstone said:

Yeah, exciting week, but let's not make it a drama that it isn't.

The people have spoken, the EU will be left. Following this a trade deal will be reached which the people will either accept or reject.

Your last line is ambiguous to me - are you in the camp the deal needs voting on, or the people will accept or reject it through a GE vote after the fact?

Referendum seems best option, but not to revisit last week

Deal needs to be voted on but it's a binary choice, leave with deal or leave with nothing. It's leave either way, there's no going back on that.

.

A post that shows just how scared Leave are that the country has changed its mind.........

Part of me wishes the country would change its mind... but the polling indicates that it hasn't, yet.

We're out, I think, barring some black swan. I am 90% certain it will be into EEA. We just have to ensure France doesn't screw our banks. Which will be hard, but we have cards to play as well - e.g. Eastern Europe and Scandinavia will be much keener to help us than Paris, and all the countries have a say.

This is modestly cheering:

http://reaction.life/liberal-minded-internationalists-risk-backing-wrong-horse/

That is a great article. Looking at treaties dulls the brain. I love me some charts and tables every now and then.

I particularly liked clause (2). EEA could just be a waystation for us.

NickPalmer said:

I think others overestimate my worth, frankly. As I was saying to Southam earlier, why is he so concerned with the opinion of an ex-MP who hasn't been in Parliament for 6 years?

I comment here as a longstanding party member with an interest in what's going on and a mixture of pragmatic background and support for a leftward move. As such I'm probably typical of a certain type of member, but I claim no particular authority and will be perrfectly happy to be seen as just another contributor.

Apologies Nick if I missed an earlier comment of yours from the weeks tens of thousands of other comments but do you wish to see Corbyn resign or remain?

OllyT said:

steve_garner said:

Older people cared enough to vote. Or are you saying there should be an age limit.

OllyT said:

So the future of the UK for the next couple of generations is in the hands of the Tory membership in Little-Snoring-in-the-Marsh average age 70+. What could possibly go wrong?

isn't it marvellous to have our sovereignty back so that a small group of mainly superannuated OAP's can "take back control" and decide the direction of the country for the next couple of generations. (I'm an OAP so believe me I know how totally out of touch with the modern world most are).

superannuated OAPs and Norway and Iceland and Liechtenstein.

Edit: absolutely no offence to OAPs of any stripe..

CornishBlue said:

OllyT said:

So the future of the UK for the next couple of generations is in the hands of the Tory membership in Little-Snoring-in-the-Marsh average age 70+. What could possibly go wrong?

Would you prefer it to be in the hands of the Momentum yoof?

I was responding to Alistair's point re the Tory leadership election:-

"The winner is likely to be setting policy that will set the course of the nation for two generations, so this had better be well thought-through."

My point is that I find it supremely ironic given all the recent guff about sovereignty and "taking back control" that the decision will ultimately be taken by, what, 150,000 wealth Tory OAPs.

John_M said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

I'm going to suggest this must be unlikely...

https://twitter.com/AngrySalmond/status/748230939403239424

I can't believe this is true. If it is, it's a fucking disgrace.

UKIP has a bench?