We know it's going to be between Boris and Theresa... All these other non entities like Crabb and Fox are doing is holding up the UK getting a new Prime Minister at a time of crisis. They should all stand aside tomorrow, let Boris and Theresa go through and then we could have a new PM/Chancellor by the end of July.
Both the Boris and May camps have the same 2 aims right now;
Firstly, to get onto the members ballot. Secondly, to have Crabb as their opponent on the members ballot.
Could Crabb's campaign catch fire and take people by surprise? Maybe if Davidson makes a barnstorming speech on his behalf?
Personally I think it's too early to write off Boris. If he goes through to the final two there will be "hustings" with the membership, TV debates, etc. As we saw from the referendum debates he can play it straight and get serious... Don't be surprised if he wins over a lot of members who are currently pretty dubious about him in the coming weeks.
I think it's wide open between Boris and Theresa to be honest but beyond these two I just can't see anybody else having the "clout" for this.
What the * is going on. Hodges now reporting that there may not be a leadership bid tomorrow and Owen Smith taking soundings.
I think the PLP realises it cannot take out Jeremy Corbyn, twat, with Dear Auntie Mabel, god bless her, she can make a nice scones, but killing Jezza is another matter.
Owen Smith....who is he. If he took soundings, I would say...Who the fuck are you?
To take out Corbzilla, they're going to have to take off and nuke him from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
You say we can't impose [EU] legislation on EFTA states and vice versa and that is good. But is the corollary of that that if it is vetoed from being incorporated into the EEA Agreement by another EEA/EFTA state, we can unilaterally adopt it. What would be the mechanism by which we could do that?
If nothing else worked, presumably Parliament could copy paste the regulation into a law and pass that.
Presumably Brussels could fax over the legislation and we would simply adopt that?
Max made it sound as though there was something more formal than that.
Nope, government by fax. I don't see a scenario where we would do that though unless it was very favourable and the EU had adopted our ideas in the formation stages but the EFTA nations didn't want it.
Well, at least it's not another 'I like and respect you but you are not the man for the party to help people' letter.
I wonder how many of these Corbyn's actually read? After the 10th 'You're a bit crap' letter, I'd probably stop.
Opening with how David Cameron spoke for most Labour Mps and voters may have been an odd choice. Reed also not about to let McDonnel fill the void either it seems.
I'm assuming some whizz kid has created a Labour resignation letter generator by now
I hope someone sends one in without filling in the details.
"It is with great [insert emotion] that I must resign my position as shadow [insert nonentity of post here].
I have great respect/deep loathing delete as appropriate for you, but feel you are a cancer/not able to unite the party delete as appropriate
You say we can't impose [EU] legislation on EFTA states and vice versa and that is good. But is the corollary of that that if it is vetoed from being incorporated into the EEA Agreement by another EEA/EFTA state, we can unilaterally adopt it. What would be the mechanism by which we could do that?
If nothing else worked, presumably Parliament could copy paste the regulation into a law and pass that.
Presumably Brussels could fax over the legislation and we would simply adopt that?
Max made it sound as though there was something more formal than that.
We know it's going to be between Boris and Theresa... All these other non entities like Crabb and Fox are doing is holding up the UK getting a new Prime Minister at a time of crisis. They should all stand aside tomorrow, let Boris and Theresa go through and then we could have a new PM/Chancellor by the end of July.
Both the Boris and May camps have the same 2 aims right now;
Firstly, to get onto the ballot of the party members. Secondly, to have Crabb as their opponent on the ballot of the party members.
What the * is going on. Hodges now reporting that there may not be a leadership bid tomorrow and Owen Smith taking soundings.
I think the PLP realises it cannot take out Jeremy Corbyn, twat, with Dear Auntie Mabel, god bless her, she can make a nice scones, but killing Jezza is another matter.
Owen Smith....who is he. If he took soundings, I would say...Who the fuck are you?
To take out Corbzilla, they're going to have to take off and nuke him from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
It occurred to me today their best is to reanimate the corpse of Lenin, in Red Square, and get a ventriloquist to work Lenin's dried up mouth, ordering Corbyn to resign
We know it's going to be between Boris and Theresa... All these other non entities like Crabb and Fox are doing is holding up the UK getting a new Prime Minister at a time of crisis. They should all stand aside tomorrow, let Boris and Theresa go through and then we could have a new PM/Chancellor by the end of July.
Both the Boris and May camps have the same 2 aims right now;
Firstly, to get onto the members ballot. Secondly, to have Crabb as their opponent on the members ballot.
Could Crabb's campaign catch fire and take people by surprise? Maybe if Davidson makes a barnstorming speech on his behalf?
With all the agro sloshing around, recriminations and accusations, I'd just like to report that I am finding that ordinary English people in my every day life are still by and large being very decent and helpful to one another. It seems that some of our leaders might consider going back to basics too.
What the * is going on. Hodges now reporting that there may not be a leadership bid tomorrow and Owen Smith taking soundings.
I think the PLP realises it cannot take out Jeremy Corbyn, twat, with Dear Auntie Mabel, god bless her, she can make a nice scones, but killing Jezza is another matter.
Owen Smith....who is he. If he took soundings, I would say...Who the fuck are you?
To take out Corbzilla, they're going to have to take off and nuke him from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
It occurred to me today their best is to reanimate the corpse of Lenin, in Red Square, and get a ventriloquist to work Lenin's dried up mouth, ordering Corbyn to resign
Well, at least it's not another 'I like and respect you but you are not the man for the party to help people' letter.
I wonder how many of these Corbyn's actually read? After the 10th 'You're a bit crap' letter, I'd probably stop.
Opening with how David Cameron spoke for most Labour Mps and voters may have been an odd choice. Reed also not about to let McDonnel fill the void either it seems.
I'm assuming some whizz kid has created a Labour resignation letter generator by now
I hope someone sends one in without filling in the details.
"It is with great [insert emotion] that I must resign my position as shadow [insert nonentity of post here].
I have great respect/deep loathing delete as appropriate for you, but feel you are a cancer/not able to unite the party delete as appropriate
You say we can't impose [EU] legislation on EFTA states and vice versa and that is good. But is the corollary of that that if it is vetoed from being incorporated into the EEA Agreement by another EEA/EFTA state, we can unilaterally adopt it. What would be the mechanism by which we could do that?
If nothing else worked, presumably Parliament could copy paste the regulation into a law and pass that.
Presumably Brussels could fax over the legislation and we would simply adopt that?
Max made it sound as though there was something more formal than that.
Nope, government by fax. I don't see a scenario where we would do that though unless it was very favourable and the EU had adopted our ideas in the formation stages but the EFTA nations didn't want it.
well indeed I had the courtesy to insert a
So what is the mechanism for unilateral adoption of a piece of EU legislation that a(nother by that stage) EEA/EFTA state has vetoed from the EEA Agreement?
On Crabb...there was an interview with him on the radio when he was talking about his christian values.
Why are Christian, bible, thumper, loony roonies so obsessed particularly by sex, gays and porn and drugs. He managed to bring up all three in the interview.
You cannot have a Christian nut job, whose obsessed by sex and gay men, porn, drugs getting anywhere near power. You just cannot.
We know it's going to be between Boris and Theresa... All these other non entities like Crabb and Fox are doing is holding up the UK getting a new Prime Minister at a time of crisis. They should all stand aside tomorrow, let Boris and Theresa go through and then we could have a new PM/Chancellor by the end of July.
Both the Boris and May camps have the same 2 aims right now;
Firstly, to get onto the members ballot. Secondly, to have Crabb as their opponent on the members ballot.
Could Crabb's campaign catch fire and take people by surprise? Maybe if Davidson makes a barnstorming speech on his behalf?
He opposed gay marriage though.....
That doesn't seem like it'd do him much harm with the Tory members
Just of interest how many posters here will actually be part of the Tory 'selectorate'?
Apart from me, there is Richard N, TSE, Max, Casino, Plato, Concanvasser...must be more surely? So far I count 5 for May, 2 for Johnson.
Nick Palmer and BigJohnOwls are clearly pulling for the Tories at the moment. You should give them a vote.
I think Angela Eagle would be hopeless. The Tories must be praying for her to win
Perhaps you could list her qualities apart from being able to turn on the waterworks at will.
Why do you think she is the anything other than a disaster
4TH OUT OF 5 for Deputy last time suddenly your favoured candidate.
The PLP sparked a crisis then wanted to impose Jarvis without a vote
Insulting to any Democratic Socialist IMO.
What does your CLP think.
Mine is seething
As a Tory I would be very happy if Labour choose her.
Big John is right She would be a polling disaster waiting to happen.
It is quite extraordinary that the PLP, after just about an entire shadow cabinet has resigned in the last week and with another shadow cabinet on the back benches which had already refused to serve, seems about to nominate just one alternative to Corbyn - someone who offers few obvious improvements on Corbyn and, to his supporters at least, is worse is several important ways. It's almost as if they want to lose the fight.
Yes this is my experience as well, among the people I asked it was about 50/50 among the leavers and Boris had no support among the remainers. Glad to see it replicated among a wider sample.
We know it's going to be between Boris and Theresa... All these other non entities like Crabb and Fox are doing is holding up the UK getting a new Prime Minister at a time of crisis. They should all stand aside tomorrow, let Boris and Theresa go through and then we could have a new PM/Chancellor by the end of July.
Both the Boris and May camps have the same 2 aims right now;
Firstly, to get onto the members ballot. Secondly, to have Crabb as their opponent on the members ballot.
Could Crabb's campaign catch fire and take people by surprise? Maybe if Davidson makes a barnstorming speech on his behalf?
He opposed gay marriage though.....
That doesn't seem like it'd do him much harm with the Tory members
I was thinking of its impact on the chances of Ruth Davidson doing a speech for him.
You say we can't impose [EU] legislation on EFTA states and vice versa and that is good. But is the corollary of that that if it is vetoed from being incorporated into the EEA Agreement by another EEA/EFTA state, we can unilaterally adopt it. What would be the mechanism by which we could do that?
If nothing else worked, presumably Parliament could copy paste the regulation into a law and pass that.
Presumably Brussels could fax over the legislation and we would simply adopt that?
Max made it sound as though there was something more formal than that.
*Could* not *would*
Big difference.
We're in control.
So the EU formulates a law with only our initial input, but one that we care about enough to want to adopt. We have no say in the latter or, crucially, voting rounds.
And then it comes out, and we want to adopt it, but Norway vetoes its inclusion into the EEA Agreement. So we cut and paste (your words) the law formulated in a different country with minimal UK input onto our statute books.
Actually with the CLP information Andrea has posted i think the chances of a Corbyn defeat are a bit higher than i posted earlier.
Still think AE very unlikely to win though
Watson it could be quite close.
Really needs a Burnham or Lewis to go all post Jezza though i think
Personally, I'd be quite happy with a Watson-led Labour. He has some guts, and I generally agree with his mix of policies (which is more than I can say for the likes of Kendall and Umunna). From what I've seen, he's generally "soft left" on the economy and welfare issues, with his main heresy being he supports Trident -- that would all be fine by me.
However, I genuinely don't see that he would be any more "electable" than Corbyn. He's not any more charismatic, plus he doesn't come across as a very nice or relateable guy in the way that Corbyn, for all his many faults, does. I can't really see the thought process that the average Joe Public who wouldn't be willing to vote for Corbyn to be PM, would be willing to vote for Watson.
I see all those who were frothing about $2Tn off world share prices earlier this week are, now that the FTSE is higher than at any point this month, saying that short term considerations are irrelevant and the damage will emerge wraith like in the long term lol.
Remainer Fail.
Meanwhile Im returning from an excellent game of cricket at the Oval and see Roy hit over 160 in a 42 over match with 60 odd from Root.
I have to say that Alan Johnson'sw performance in the Brexit campaign was utterly appalling. I didn't even know he was in charge of Labour remain.
Shameful to go after Corbyn on this given the glass house he is in .
I got the impression Johnson knows very little about the EU. There was no depth to his arguments.
One of the failures of REMAIN was that they had no real way of dealing with LEAVE attacks, and had no relevant facts and figures to hand, as they have never properly addressed Brexit, psychologically, as Brexit was always deemed impossible, indeed distasteful
By contrast many LEAVERS know EU law down to the last jot and tittle. They obsess. Same in Sindyref, of course. Tough campaigners, for that reason
Nope.
*The* failure of REMAIN was that they had no response WHATSOEVER to the immigration line of attack.
On Crabb...there was an interview with him on the radio when he was talking about his christian values.
Why are Christian, bible, thumper, loony roonies so obsessed particularly by sex, gays and porn and drugs. He managed to bring up all three in the interview.
You cannot have a Christian nut job, whose obsessed by sex and gay men, porn, drugs getting anywhere near power. You just cannot.
He won't get anywhere near winning. What he's doing is raising his profile. Always happens in these elections
Yes, but given the crisis the country is in you would hope these self-serving Tory politicians would see sense and step back so we can have a winner quickly declared for the good of the country...
On Crabb...there was an interview with him on the radio when he was talking about his christian values.
Why are Christian, bible, thumper, loony roonies so obsessed particularly by sex, gays and porn and drugs. He managed to bring up all three in the interview.
You cannot have a Christian nut job, whose obsessed by sex and gay men, porn, drugs getting anywhere near power. You just cannot.
He won't get anywhere near winning. What he's doing is raising his profile. Always happens in these elections
He also wants to have a power base to horse trade with later on for a top job somewhere, for the pair of them.
Just of interest how many posters here will actually be part of the Tory 'selectorate'?
Apart from me, there is Richard N, TSE, Max, Casino, Plato, Concanvasser...must be more surely? So far I count 5 for May, 2 for Johnson.
Nick Palmer and BigJohnOwls are clearly pulling for the Tories at the moment. You should give them a vote.
I think Angela Eagle would be hopeless. The Tories must be praying for her to win
Perhaps you could list her qualities apart from being able to turn on the waterworks at will.
Why do you think she is the anything other than a disaster
4TH OUT OF 5 for Deputy last time suddenly your favoured candidate.
The PLP sparked a crisis then wanted to impose Jarvis without a vote
Insulting to any Democratic Socialist IMO.
What does your CLP think.
Mine is seething
As a Tory I would be very happy if Labour choose her.
Big John is right She would be a polling disaster waiting to happen.
It is quite extraordinary that the PLP, after just about an entire shadow cabinet has resigned in the last week and with another shadow cabinet on the back benches which had already refused to serve, seems about to nominate just one alternative to Corbyn - someone who offers few obvious improvements on Corbyn and, to his supporters at least, is worse is several important ways. It's almost as if they want to lose the fight.
He has a point. Why should he listen to those elected by 9,347,324?
Most of them just showed how in touch they were with those 9m voters by enthusiastically backing the Remain campaign.
Most Labour voters backed Remain. There's a lot of focus on the sizeable minority that didn't but most did.
But they thought that the "Remain" campaign was guaranteed to succeed. That is how bad their political judgement is. I remember reading the articles about a year ago - people like Liz Kendall and Chuka Umunna thought that staying in the EU was one of the main principles of the "centre ground", and that Labour enthusiastically backing the Remain campaign would be a good move for Labour and show how in touch they were with mainstream voters.
Clearly, it turned out supporting the EU was nowhere near as "centre ground" or "mainstream" as they thought. So why should I trust that they know how to win an election and how to appeal to the General Electorate, when they read the General Electorate so catastrophically badly on the EU???
Wrong, the referendum was lost narrowly.
Most Labour voters backed Remain. There would have been many more had Corbyn actively backed the campaign and rolled his sleeves up and got up to the north where the vote was in trouble.
You have to question how they find the party members though. Their previous weightings of the public have been highly suspect. How do they go about finding members in Shropshire and Scotland?
@jantalipinski: This survey is amongst a representative sample of Tory members (we predicted DC's victory with 1% error and IDS 0%) https://t.co/e6q55SQt75
I guess October 1 to December 31 this year is a decent bet at 3/1
I'm not sure. There may be a lot of pressure to invoke when the new Tory leader takes office or after an early election, if that happens. But really, without pre-agreement on broad-brush terms it's something you would never want to do.
It occurs to me that Cameron has with three referendums stuffed both opposition parties. Libdems with AV. Lab north of border with Indyref and now Lab south of border with Euref.
That is quite an achievement.
Hopefully now Boris will see sense and Theresa May will be PM by Friday.
If she is really ruthless she could then call a snap election right in the middle of Labours leader Fratricide.
At the CLP AGM on Friday 24th June 2016, delegates asked me to write to you to ask you to reject the motion of no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn. The meeting was overwhelmingly behind Jeremy continuing as Labour leader. Your appearance on TV during the post referendum programme was mentioned. Your response in putting the question of his leadership aside to deal with the issues was welcomed. The idea that the Labour Party would rather miss the chance to capitalise on the splits in the Tory party by in fighting was not acceptable to members. On behalf of the constituency I would ask you to make a clear public statement of support for him.
Regards
Kathy Miller & Kathy Runswick Secretary & Chair Wallasey CLP”
We know it's going to be between Boris and Theresa... All these other non entities like Crabb and Fox are doing is holding up the UK getting a new Prime Minister at a time of crisis. They should all stand aside tomorrow, let Boris and Theresa go through and then we could have a new PM/Chancellor by the end of July.
Both the Boris and May camps have the same 2 aims right now;
Firstly, to get onto the members ballot. Secondly, to have Crabb as their opponent on the members ballot.
Could Crabb's campaign catch fire and take people by surprise? Maybe if Davidson makes a barnstorming speech on his behalf?
He opposed gay marriage though.....
That doesn't seem like it'd do him much harm with the Tory members
You'll find that the Tories are now gayer than disco. Times change.
You say we can't impose [EU] legislation on EFTA states and vice versa and that is good. But is the corollary of that that if it is vetoed from being incorporated into the EEA Agreement by another EEA/EFTA state, we can unilaterally adopt it. What would be the mechanism by which we could do that?
If nothing else worked, presumably Parliament could copy paste the regulation into a law and pass that.
Presumably Brussels could fax over the legislation and we would simply adopt that?
Max made it sound as though there was something more formal than that.
*Could* not *would*
Big difference.
We're in control.
I really don't think EEA is going to happen for Britain. No-one will be able to tell us what to do without asking first. But that's the EEA's way of working.
So when Merkel says no cherry-picking on the single market and no negotiation prior to the Article 50 countdown, she is either holding out for Article 50 NEVER to be triggered and Britain's EU membership to continue by default, or it's a locked down trade deal.
We know it's going to be between Boris and Theresa... All these other non entities like Crabb and Fox are doing is holding up the UK getting a new Prime Minister at a time of crisis. They should all stand aside tomorrow, let Boris and Theresa go through and then we could have a new PM/Chancellor by the end of July.
Both the Boris and May camps have the same 2 aims right now;
Firstly, to get onto the members ballot. Secondly, to have Crabb as their opponent on the members ballot.
Could Crabb's campaign catch fire and take people by surprise? Maybe if Davidson makes a barnstorming speech on his behalf?
He opposed gay marriage though.....
That doesn't seem like it'd do him much harm with the Tory members
I was thinking of its impact on the chances of Ruth Davidson doing a speech for him.
Davidson clearly hates Boris. She will support Teresa. Important for Scots Tories, and the Union
She is in for a tough time north of the border, Brexit will be put at her parties feet for obvious reasons. May is a remainer, having her as a nominal boss is better for her than having Boris sat there losing her votes. In fact if Boris did get in then her career is put back a few years, hmmm....
slightly off topic. - I was thinking about the pre referendum predictions on turnout - the consensus seemed to be sub-60% meant leave, 60-75% meant remain, and above 75% meant leave. I don't think anyone was saying leave on 72% turnout - any theories on why we saw decently but not massively elevated turnout from GE yet a leave vote?
The highest increases came from council estates, in Scotland where the debate was one sided turnout was similar to GE, I.e. middle class more likely to turnout.
The turnout of pensioners was at a record high, the turnout of working class voters in safe seats rose more than was expected, the turnout of younger voters esp 18-24 appears to have been below 50%. Turnout in Scotland and London was good, but not as good as most of the English provinces. Thus turnout rose, but not evenly.
He has a point. Why should he listen to those elected by 9,347,324?
Most of them just showed how in touch they were with those 9m voters by enthusiastically backing the Remain campaign.
Most Labour voters backed Remain. There's a lot of focus on the sizeable minority that didn't but most did.
But they thought that the "Remain" campaign was guaranteed to succeed. That is how bad their political judgement is. I remember reading the articles about a year ago - people like Liz Kendall and Chuka Umunna thought that staying in the EU was one of the main principles of the "centre ground", and that Labour enthusiastically backing the Remain campaign would be a good move for Labour and show how in touch they were with mainstream voters.
Clearly, it turned out supporting the EU was nowhere near as "centre ground" or "mainstream" as they thought. So why should I trust that they know how to win an election and how to appeal to the General Electorate, when they read the General Electorate so catastrophically badly on the EU???
Wrong, the referendum was lost narrowly.
Narrowly or not, the Remain campaign lost, despite sitting on a 40-point lead a year ago and having all the institutional advantages a campaign could dream of. To squander all those advantages shows the campaign was spectacularly crap, and therefore anyone who thought it was a good idea to enthusiastically back it (i.e. most of the "moderate" Labour MPs) clearly does not have very good political judgement.
I have to say that Alan Johnson'sw performance in the Brexit campaign was utterly appalling. I didn't even know he was in charge of Labour remain.
Shameful to go after Corbyn on this given the glass house he is in .
I got the impression Johnson knows very little about the EU. There was no depth to his arguments.
One of the failures of REMAIN was that they had no real way of dealing with LEAVE attacks, and had no relevant facts and figures to hand, as they have never properly addressed Brexit, psychologically, as Brexit was always deemed impossible, indeed distasteful
By contrast many LEAVERS know EU law down to the last jot and tittle. They obsess. Same in Sindyref, of course. Tough campaigners, for that reason
Yes.
Eurosceptic politicians have spent decades writing articles, books, making speeches, etc., whereas Europhile politicians have been no way near as active.
Though it was the Thatcher years that accelerated the already existing trend of deindustrialisation.
I don't agree.
Between 1973 and 1979, manufacturing as a percentage of UK GDP declined by 2.7 percentage points, or about 0.4%/year. Between 1979 and 1990, it declined by 5.4 percentage points, or about the same rate (assuming mineral oil processing held steady between those years). Very slightly faster, but you'd need a microscope to see the difference in the stats. See https://catalogue.pearsoned.co.uk/assets/hip/gb/hip_gb_pearsonhighered/samplechapter/0273736906.pdf table 1.2.
As owner and MD of a successful medical technology company I have watched the continual downsizing of UK industry over many years. I set up my company with the election of Blair as I figured Labour would support industry. This was a massive mistake which cost my marriage and almost everything I owned. I survived just and now I am thriving internationally.
The Tories don't really understand industry but do less damage than Labour is my general opinion. The last 5 years have been pretty good and my turnover is growing at 10% plus per year.
The UK is poorly set to operate as a standalone country. For example we have one active implantable company which is tiny and maybe only one manufacturer of cardiac catheters. Our economy is highly skewed to a few businesses that rely on international trade. Tearing up our biggest existing trade agreement without new ones in place seems to me suicide.
It will take years to rebuild our industry and will require us to attract talent from across the world. My recent hires include graduates from Greece, Bulgaria and Estonia. Personally I prefer to hire Europeans than from the rest of the world. While wages are low here we suffer from expensive energy, expensive money and property taxes that are probably the highest in Europe. The result is a lack of incentives to buy machinery which uses energy, space and require loans. I cannot see leaving the EU helping this transition as we lose access to good talent that we need.
|The country has had too many conviction politicians and too little attention to detail. I recently joined the Scottish Tories because of Ruth and I will vote for Theresa along with most of the other Tories I know up here.
You say we can't impose [EU] legislation on EFTA states and vice versa and that is good. But is the corollary of that that if it is vetoed from being incorporated into the EEA Agreement by another EEA/EFTA state, we can unilaterally adopt it. What would be the mechanism by which we could do that?
If nothing else worked, presumably Parliament could copy paste the regulation into a law and pass that.
Presumably Brussels could fax over the legislation and we would simply adopt that?
Max made it sound as though there was something more formal than that.
*Could* not *would*
Big difference.
We're in control.
So the EU formulates a law with only our initial input, but one that we care about enough to want to adopt. We have no say in the latter or, crucially, voting rounds.
And then it comes out, and we want to adopt it, but Norway vetoes its inclusion into the EEA Agreement. So we cut and paste (your words) the law formulated in a different country with minimal UK input onto our statute books.
Doesn't sound too control-y to me.
You are daft sometimes.
If we don't like the EU version but we want something similar then we draft our own version and pass it as a national regulation.
Actually with the CLP information Andrea has posted i think the chances of a Corbyn defeat are a bit higher than i posted earlier.
Still think AE very unlikely to win though
Watson it could be quite close.
Really needs a Burnham or Lewis to go all post Jezza though i think
Personally, I'd be quite happy with a Watson-led Labour. He has some guts, and I generally agree with his mix of policies (which is more than I can say for the likes of Kendall and Umunna). From what I've seen, he's generally "soft left" on the economy and welfare issues, with his main heresy being he supports Trident -- that would all be fine by me.
However, I genuinely don't see that he would be any more "electable" than Corbyn. He's not any more charismatic, plus he doesn't come across as a very nice or relateable guy in the way that Corbyn, for all his many faults, does. I can't really see the thought process that the average Joe Public who wouldn't be willing to vote for Corbyn to be PM, would be willing to vote for Watson.
@DPJHodges: Spoken to several Labour MPs. Told very strong feeling in PLP that no one should declare tomorrow. Confirmed Owen Smith taking soundings.
I know these people are totally fking useless but some of us have MONEY ON THIS FFS!
These guys really cannot inspire confidence surely have the nerve to have no confidence in the leader at a time like this and have no clue what to do next.
Completely incompetent.
Its not as though Lab has changed the system and somehow wrong footed them.
Incompetent fools cant think beyond ABC but then realise nobodys called that
We will end up with Liz Kendall as the challenger at this rate.
Who would still be far, far, far better than Corbyn. With the possible exception of John McDonnell, Corbyn is the LEAST electable Labour MP in the Commons.
WAKE UP
P.S. Has Nick declared whether he thinks Corbyn should stay or go yet? We've been waiting longer for him than Charlie bloody Falconer
If you want Liz you really should vote Tory.
Same Policies without the fickkness and both endorsed by The Sun
I didn't say I wanted her, merely that she would be better than Corbyn, although admittedly that is damning by very faint praise.
I have to say that Alan Johnson'sw performance in the Brexit campaign was utterly appalling. I didn't even know he was in charge of Labour remain.
Shameful to go after Corbyn on this given the glass house he is in .
I got the impression Johnson knows very little about the EU. There was no depth to his arguments.
One of the failures of REMAIN was that they had no real way of dealing with LEAVE attacks, and had no relevant facts and figures to hand, as they have never properly addressed Brexit, psychologically, as Brexit was always deemed impossible, indeed distasteful
By contrast many LEAVERS know EU law down to the last jot and tittle. They obsess. Same in Sindyref, of course. Tough campaigners, for that reason
Nope.
*The* failure of REMAIN was that they had no response WHATSOEVER to the immigration line of attack.
I said ONE of the failures. And it's true. They lacked vim - Johnson was an example
I agree that immigration was the clincher for many. But we don't know how many.
Immigration made every Remainer look shifty and duplicitous, whether on DP or Pienaar, watched/listened to by geeks, or the national news, watched by millions.
It IMO cast a shadow over their other responses in the minds of much of the public.
Their latterly agreed line on it - that as other EU economies grew, immigration would fall - came far too late, and was too nebulous a concept to limit the damage.
You say we can't impose [EU] legislation on EFTA states and vice versa and that is good. But is the corollary of that that if it is vetoed from being incorporated into the EEA Agreement by another EEA/EFTA state, we can unilaterally adopt it. What would be the mechanism by which we could do that?
If nothing else worked, presumably Parliament could copy paste the regulation into a law and pass that.
Presumably Brussels could fax over the legislation and we would simply adopt that?
Max made it sound as though there was something more formal than that.
*Could* not *would*
Big difference.
We're in control.
I really don't think EEA is going to happen for Britain. No-one will be able to tell us what to do without asking first. But that's the EEA's way of working.
So when Merkel says no cherry-picking on the single market and no negotiation prior to the Article 50 countdown, she is either holding out for Article 50 NEVER to be triggered and Britain's EU membership to continue by default, or it's a locked down trade deal.
No, my understanding is that the Germans want us to accept a deal that maintains all four freedoms or not have a deal. The EEA is a ready made solution that can work for us in the short to medium term, possibly even the long term. I think even the Frogs are on board given their stance on Calais and Sturgeon. No one wants to piss the other side off, which is why I wish someone would lock Nigel Farage up in a basement for a few months.
It occurs to me that Cameron has with three referendums stuffed both opposition parties. Libdems with AV. Lab north of border with Indyref and now Lab south of border with Euref.
That is quite an achievement.
Hopefully now Boris will see sense and Theresa May will be PM by Friday.
If she is really ruthless she could then call a snap election right in the middle of Labours leader Fratricide.
I agree with you...the politics are quite outstanding for Tory prospects...
But, in terms of everything else, Brexit is pure evil, nihilistic, and horrible and will do our country great harm. But, heh, the Tories did well out of it so that is alright then.
Comments
Getting slightly ridiculous now...
Big John is right She would be a polling disaster waiting to happen.
I think it's wide open between Boris and Theresa to be honest but beyond these two I just can't see anybody else having the "clout" for this.
Told Angela Eagle definitely launching at 3.00 pm tomorrow.
We are back on.
"It is with great [insert emotion] that I must resign my position as shadow [insert nonentity of post here].
I have great respect/deep loathing delete as appropriate for you, but feel you are a cancer/not able to unite the party delete as appropriate
And so on and so forth
(Not looking good for Leadsom.
Big difference.
We're in control.
Actually with the CLP information Andrea has posted i think the chances of a Corbyn defeat are a bit higher than i posted earlier.
Still think AE very unlikely to win though
Watson it could be quite close.
Really needs a Burnham or Lewis to go all post Jezza though i think
Death to Labour.
So what is the mechanism for unilateral adoption of a piece of EU legislation that a(nother by that stage) EEA/EFTA state has vetoed from the EEA Agreement?
Where's our GOM of the EEA?
I SO NEED TO GET MY MIND OUT OF THE GUTTER
Why are Christian, bible, thumper, loony roonies so obsessed particularly by sex, gays and porn and drugs. He managed to bring up all three in the interview.
You cannot have a Christian nut job, whose obsessed by sex and gay men, porn, drugs getting anywhere near power. You just cannot.
Reckons Corbyn has 'injected unprecedented poison' into the party.
Didn't this fucking mouthy, keyboard warring idiot take notice during the Alastair Campbell, Derek Draper and Damien Mcbride years?
Reed is symptomatic of Labour's wider parliamentary problem. The party lacks people with the bollocks to do the dirty work.
We saw it with the coronation of the great Gordon Brown.
After 2018 or never is as short as 3/1
I guess October 1 to December 31 this year is a decent bet at 3/1
And then it comes out, and we want to adopt it, but Norway vetoes its inclusion into the EEA Agreement. So we cut and paste (your words) the law formulated in a different country with minimal UK input onto our statute books.
Doesn't sound too control-y to me.
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/29/theresa-may-storms-ahead-boris-among-tory-party-me/
However, I genuinely don't see that he would be any more "electable" than Corbyn. He's not any more charismatic, plus he doesn't come across as a very nice or relateable guy in the way that Corbyn, for all his many faults, does. I can't really see the thought process that the average Joe Public who wouldn't be willing to vote for Corbyn to be PM, would be willing to vote for Watson.
"You Brexit, you pays for it..."
Of course, he might display his shining intellect and secure all of the things he promised and everyone will be happy...
Remainer Fail.
Meanwhile Im returning from an excellent game of cricket at the Oval and see Roy hit over 160 in a 42 over match with 60 odd from Root.
Oh to be in England in Summer
*The* failure of REMAIN was that they had no response WHATSOEVER to the immigration line of attack.
Most Labour voters backed Remain. There would have been many more had Corbyn actively backed the campaign and rolled his sleeves up and got up to the north where the vote was in trouble.
No more excuses. WAKE UP.
Lewis will stand if Corbyn tells him to.
With the quasi-AV system, he'll probably get 140ish they say by the final round.
You only need 111 to make the final round, so he could loan maybe 20 to another candidate to stop Mrs May making the ballot
She's almost as popular as Wee Nicky on here!
That is quite an achievement.
Hopefully now Boris will see sense and Theresa May will be PM by Friday.
If she is really ruthless she could then call a snap election right in the middle of Labours leader Fratricide.
Hello Angela
At the CLP AGM on Friday 24th June 2016, delegates asked me to write to you to ask you to reject the motion of no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn. The meeting was overwhelmingly behind Jeremy continuing as Labour leader. Your appearance on TV during the post referendum programme was mentioned. Your response in putting the question of his leadership aside to deal with the issues was welcomed. The idea that the Labour Party would rather miss the chance to capitalise on the splits in the Tory party by in fighting was not acceptable to members.
On behalf of the constituency I would ask you to make a clear public statement of support for him.
Regards
Kathy Miller & Kathy Runswick
Secretary & Chair Wallasey CLP”
The panel may be broken.
So when Merkel says no cherry-picking on the single market and no negotiation prior to the Article 50 countdown, she is either holding out for Article 50 NEVER to be triggered and Britain's EU membership to continue by default, or it's a locked down trade deal.
In fact if Boris did get in then her career is put back a few years, hmmm....
Eurosceptic politicians have spent decades writing articles, books, making speeches, etc., whereas Europhile politicians have been no way near as active.
The Tories don't really understand industry but do less damage than Labour is my general opinion. The last 5 years have been pretty good and my turnover is growing at 10% plus per year.
The UK is poorly set to operate as a standalone country. For example we have one active implantable company which is tiny and maybe only one manufacturer of cardiac catheters. Our economy is highly skewed to a few businesses that rely on international trade. Tearing up our biggest existing trade agreement without new ones in place seems to me suicide.
It will take years to rebuild our industry and will require us to attract talent from across the world. My recent hires include graduates from Greece, Bulgaria and Estonia. Personally I prefer to hire Europeans than from the rest of the world. While wages are low here we suffer from expensive energy, expensive money and property taxes that are probably the highest in Europe. The result is a lack of incentives to buy machinery which uses energy, space and require loans. I cannot see leaving the EU helping this transition as we lose access to good talent that we need.
|The country has had too many conviction politicians and too little attention to detail. I recently joined the Scottish Tories because of Ruth and I will vote for Theresa along with most of the other Tories I know up here.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/29/revealed-labour-mps-go-to-police-over-death-threats-after-refusa/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
If we don't like the EU version but we want something similar then we draft our own version and pass it as a national regulation.
Capiche?
Yvette for me.
It IMO cast a shadow over their other responses in the minds of much of the public.
Their latterly agreed line on it - that as other EU economies grew, immigration would fall - came far too late, and was too nebulous a concept to limit the damage.
But, in terms of everything else, Brexit is pure evil, nihilistic, and horrible and will do our country great harm. But, heh, the Tories did well out of it so that is alright then.
Look at the back data on the YouGOV polls. They are never wrong. Welcome Theresa, our second lady PM.
That held me back as well
But for the tory party members that will not be such an issue.