politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Those who say that the bookies got EURef wrong don’t unders
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Mr Brooke, we have spoken about this before and I am still at a loss. Everywhere I go I see new housing estates being thrown up. Damit, in Sussex we have new towns going up. So I am at a loss as to how your volumes are declining.Alanbrooke said:
what bloody recovery ? Richard I supply the building trade and that's just bollocks my volumes this year are lower that last. We arent building anywhere near enough houses.Richard_Nabavi said:Housebuilders are a highly leveraged bet on the health of the UK economy. That's why they tanked so badly at the time of the financial crisis, why they have been such a good investment in the Osborne recovery, and why they are falling so rapidly now. Now is probably too early to go back in, I think. The time of maximum fear isn't yet.
Ever thought of sacking your sales manager?0 -
You've go to find them before you can impeach them?SouthamObserver said:It just gets better and better. At what stage can we look at impeachment for Boris, Gove and co?
I noticed Gisela and Kate showed up in the Commons this afternoon. The ladies have manned up but what about the men?
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Not good. Not a surprise.SouthamObserver said:0 -
Good Point. Though ironically the ECHR would save them from an old school impeachment.SouthamObserver said:It just gets better and better. At what stage can we look at impeachment for Boris, Gove and co?
https://twitter.com/chrisgiles_/status/7474180860310978560 -
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.Alanbrooke said:
that;s simply not truerpjs said:
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.SeanT said:I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
1970s economic crisis and IMF
1980s war and recession
1990s kicked out of ERM
2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.0 -
It's clear that in our inter-connected world the fact that market turbulence since the Brexit vote is entirely coincidental. After all, we are an island. Has news of the referendum result even made it to the continent yet?DavidL said:
They won't like the currency risk, even when its in their favour. The stability was part of the package. But yes, our media are showing an incredibly parochial viewpoint in claiming every movement is somehow a consequence of Brexit. I believe that things will calm down over the next few weeks.SeanT said:
The sharp fall in sterling will also make London property MORE attractive to foreign buyers. Suddenly prime London is 20% cheaper - making up for all those new taxes and charges.DavidL said:
The sharp fall in banking shares not just in the UK but pretty much everywhere is worrying but I don't see any sign yet of the sort of liquidity issues that we had in 2008. There is very little sign of the mortgage market tightening up so far.tlg86 said:
My dad reckons they will stop building houses because no one will be able to get a mortgage and house prices will fall. But it is tempting to think that the immigration tap might be turned off too. Personally I think that would be an error of judgement by the City - not like they've got anything wrong recently, of course!DavidL said:
The temptation to buy shares in housebuilders is almost irresistible. Are we no longer wanting new houses? Surely they weren't all being sold to immigrants. Massive overreaction.malcolmg said:
Obviously overvalued previously or someone is stupid.Scott_P said:Project
FearReality
https://twitter.com/kiranstacey/status/747468502500515842
It is possible that London in particular will be hit by a reduction in foreign capital looking for a safe home but over the whole country 30% off house builders with decent land banks just looks daft.
Who knows. The initial few days have been rocky. Very very rocky. But we're not vanquished.
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An act of attainder could explicitly exempt itself from the HRA couldn't it?YellowSubmarine said:
Good Point. Though ironically the ECHR would save them from an old school impeachment.SouthamObserver said:It just gets better and better. At what stage can we look at impeachment for Boris, Gove and co?
https://twitter.com/chrisgiles_/status/7474180860310978560 -
Nearly time for us to be disappointed by England in the footy.0
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But this is just the last in a succession of glorious peaceful revolutions!rpjs said:
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.SeanT said:I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
The British, in their wisdom, have got us out of a crumbling customs union with dangerous delusions of statehood and authoritarian instincts. It's wonderful, simply wonderful. We've done it again.0 -
what happens on your doorstep Mr L isnt the same as across the country.HurstLlama said:
Mr Brooke, we have spoken about this before and I am still at a loss. Everywhere I go I see new housing estates being thrown up. Damit, in Sussex we have new towns going up. So I am at a loss as to how your volumes are declining.Alanbrooke said:
what bloody recovery ? Richard I supply the building trade and that's just bollocks my volumes this year are lower that last. We arent building anywhere near enough houses.Richard_Nabavi said:Housebuilders are a highly leveraged bet on the health of the UK economy. That's why they tanked so badly at the time of the financial crisis, why they have been such a good investment in the Osborne recovery, and why they are falling so rapidly now. Now is probably too early to go back in, I think. The time of maximum fear isn't yet.
Ever thought of sacking your sales manager?0 -
Nope, every summer they'd strip and clean the front quad, just while no-one was looking.rpjs said:
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.SeanT said:I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...0 -
I typed "fat tracking" because I'd had a couple of drinks after winning a tennis match for the first time for yonks. With the weight of EU regulations lifted from my shoulders, I was moving around the court like Andy Murray.0
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The Conservative government's tryst with the ERM was surely a self-inflicted crisis.Wanderer said:
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.Alanbrooke said:
that;s simply not truerpjs said:
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.SeanT said:I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
1970s economic crisis and IMF
1980s war and recession
1990s kicked out of ERM
2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.0 -
Oh, agreed, carry on the fight - but what would be the point of a GE when all major parties are in favour of staying in the EU?kle4 said:
I absolutely believe people would have demanded the same. We have proof some would not have regarded a result of this nature the other way as definitive.AnneJGP said:
Do you imagine for one moment that, had Remain won by a similar margin, it would have been considered necessary to back up that decision with a General Election? After all, some 48.5% would have disagreed with government policy.SeanT said:
Unless the economy collapses, and then the pro-EU Labs and Libs could win a majority.Scott_P said:@jameskirkup: Tory consensus settling on some form of Norway/EEA Brexit. Get ready for Tory vs Ukip election; Labour is roadkill. https://t.co/NzlAsPfqea
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN - en election (not a recession).
If the voters then go for IN or OUt then so be it, and let's crack on
As it is, I consider it extremely likely that a GE will be deemed to have nullified the referendum.0 -
This country has has enough of experts with their knowledge and clever answers, thank you very much.AndrewSpencer said:
Sorry but this is nonsense. I'm an admissions tutor at a Cambridge college & it's simply not true that 20% of undergraduates at some colleges are Chinese. In 2015 there were 76 Chinese and 87 from Hong Kong out of 3,449 admissions. In total 782 students were admitted from outside the UK.John_N4 said:
So admit thick rich foreigners rather than bright not-so-rich ones?FrancisUrquhart said:
I am well aware of that. As a result, UK student fees in theory could go down (at least at top unis) as there isn't a shortage of people willing to pay the international going rate for top quality education.John_N4 said:
Their fees won't go up, but if Britain leaves the EU then the fees paid by EU undergraduates at British universities are likely to go up by a lot. At the moment they pay the same fees as home students.FrancisUrquhart said:I heard a number of students say that they believed if they didn't vote Remain their student fees would go up. There are a lot of idiots out there.
Many British students have friends from elsewhere in the EU, they don't want fees for EU students to go up, and they voted Remain partly for that reason.
Personally I think British universities admit too many foreign students, both from elsewhere in the EU and from China and elsewhere. At some Cambridge colleges about 20% of undergraduates are Chinese. Education should be improved here so that there are more bright British candidates.0 -
Alan Johnson is the most overrated MP in Parliament. He had numerous front-bench posts but I can't remember a single thing he did.FrancisUrquhart said:
The only person even less visible was Stuart Rose.paulyork64 said:I heard today on the radio that appearently Alan Johnson was leader of the Labour In campaign. I know I didnt't watch every debate or news bulletin but this is the first I knew of it.
Where is Mr Burnham?
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I realise your sarcasm but for interest :SouthamObserver said:
It's clear that in our inter-connected world the fact that market turbulence since the Brexit vote is entirely coincidental. After all, we are an island. Has news of the referendum result even made it to the continent yet?DavidL said:
They won't like the currency risk, even when its in their favour. The stability was part of the package. But yes, our media are showing an incredibly parochial viewpoint in claiming every movement is somehow a consequence of Brexit. I believe that things will calm down over the next few weeks.SeanT said:
The sharp fall in sterling will also make London property MORE attractive to foreign buyers. Suddenly prime London is 20% cheaper - making up for all those new taxes and charges.DavidL said:
The sharp fall in banking shares not just in the UK but pretty much everywhere is worrying but I don't see any sign yet of the sort of liquidity issues that we had in 2008. There is very little sign of the mortgage market tightening up so far.tlg86 said:
My dad reckons they will stop building houses because no one will be able to get a mortgage and house prices will fall. But it is tempting to think that the immigration tap might be turned off too. Personally I think that would be an error of judgement by the City - not like they've got anything wrong recently, of course!DavidL said:
The temptation to buy shares in housebuilders is almost irresistible. Are we no longer wanting new houses? Surely they weren't all being sold to immigrants. Massive overreaction.malcolmg said:
Obviously overvalued previously or someone is stupid.Scott_P said:Project
FearReality
https://twitter.com/kiranstacey/status/747468502500515842
It is possible that London in particular will be hit by a reduction in foreign capital looking for a safe home but over the whole country 30% off house builders with decent land banks just looks daft.
Who knows. The initial few days have been rocky. Very very rocky. But we're not vanquished.
Emergency Awesome (a American youtube channel for comic book and fantasy TV shows) has a video "Will BREXIT effect Game of Thrones" with over 400,000 views.0 -
Self-inflicted but by bad judgement, not by deliberately choosing uncertainty as we have done now.DecrepitJohnL said:
The Conservative government's tryst with the ERM was surely a self-inflicted crisis.Wanderer said:
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.Alanbrooke said:
that;s simply not truerpjs said:
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.SeanT said:I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
1970s economic crisis and IMF
1980s war and recession
1990s kicked out of ERM
2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.0 -
Hard to have eyes off them really.JackW said:
"Fat tracking"frpenkridge said:US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fat tracking"
Bloody hell the CIA Obesity Service has eyes on Soames and Pickles!0 -
So back of the fast-track queue then? :-)frpenkridge said:US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fast tracking" bi-lateral trade deal with UK.
Given that the bottleneck is likely to be our government's bandwidth to negotiate deals, where does US come in OUR queue relative to India, China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Canada etc? Personally, I'd put India first, then China...0 -
Yep, Iceland will show us how you thrive outside the EU.FrancisUrquhart said:Nearly time for us to be disappointed by England in the footy.
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Only fellows are allowed to walk on the grass - members of the junior and middle common rooms have to keep off!BannedInParis said:
Nope, every summer they'd strip and clean the front quad, just while no-one was looking.rpjs said:
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.SeanT said:I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...0 -
Just as we worked hard(ish) on Austerity but decided in the end other things were more important. Hopefully this will be worth that.numbertwelve said:Well. The credit rating we worked so hard to keep has been lost.
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I was astonished to find out the EU pays HBO to make GOT in NI. One can't help but wonder which other multi-billion dollar corporations they've been vomiting our money at.Lowlander said:
I realise your sarcasm but for interest :SouthamObserver said:
It's clear that in our inter-connected world the fact that market turbulence since the Brexit vote is entirely coincidental. After all, we are an island. Has news of the referendum result even made it to the continent yet?DavidL said:
They won't like the currency risk, even when its in their favour. The stability was part of the package. But yes, our media are showing an incredibly parochial viewpoint in claiming every movement is somehow a consequence of Brexit. I believe that things will calm down over the next few weeks.SeanT said:
The sharp fall in sterling will also make London property MORE attractive to foreign buyers. Suddenly prime London is 20% cheaper - making up for all those new taxes and charges.DavidL said:
The sharp fall in banking shares not just in the UK but pretty much everywhere is worrying but I don't see any sign yet of the sort of liquidity issues that we had in 2008. There is very little sign of the mortgage market tightening up so far.tlg86 said:
My dad reckons they will stop building houses because no one will be able to get a mortgage and house prices will fall. But it is tempting to think that the immigration tap might be turned off too. Personally I think that would be an error of judgement by the City - not like they've got anything wrong recently, of course!DavidL said:
The temptation to buy shares in housebuilders is almost irresistible. Are we no longer wanting new houses? Surely they weren't all being sold to immigrants. Massive overreaction.malcolmg said:
Obviously overvalued previously or someone is stupid.Scott_P said:Project
FearReality
https://twitter.com/kiranstacey/status/747468502500515842
It is possible that London in particular will be hit by a reduction in foreign capital looking for a safe home but over the whole country 30% off house builders with decent land banks just looks daft.
Who knows. The initial few days have been rocky. Very very rocky. But we're not vanquished.
Emergency Awesome (a youtube channel for comic book and fantasy TV shows) has a video "Will BREXIT effect Game of Thrones" with over half a million views.0 -
I think Nelson in the Simpson's does it betterFenman said:Annuity rates for pensions cut. Looks like those who will suffer are those who voted us into this mess. Don't the Germans have a word for it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdOPBP9vuZA
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The US has just done the TPP with Japan, Australia, South Korea and others, so it'll be offered to us of the shelf. Of course, we'll have to accept the secret ISDS tribunals, and an obligation to follow the US n terms of copyright law.Anna said:
So back of the fast-track queue then? :-)frpenkridge said:US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fast tracking" bi-lateral trade deal with UK.
Given that the bottleneck is likely to be our government's bandwidth to negotiate deals, where does US come in OUR queue relative to India, China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Canada etc? Personally, I'd put India first, then China...0 -
There actually isn't though. UK debt yields dropped again today in the flight to safety. If markets believed that the UK had a low credit rating then that wouldn't be happening.murali_s said:S&P downgrade UK. This is huge.
Any PB Brexiter want to offer an apology for voting "Leave"? "They lied to me" - if honest is a good reason....0 -
Don't you love 'control'?rcs1000 said:
The US has just done the TPP with Japan, Australia, South Korea and others, so it'll be offered to us of the shelf. Of course, we'll have to accept the secret ISDS tribunals, and an obligation to follow the US n terms of copyright law.Anna said:
So back of the fast-track queue then? :-)frpenkridge said:US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fast tracking" bi-lateral trade deal with UK.
Given that the bottleneck is likely to be our government's bandwidth to negotiate deals, where does US come in OUR queue relative to India, China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Canada etc? Personally, I'd put India first, then China...
People have just voted massively against the effects of globalisation on the man in the street, and many of the people leading the charge now want to put their foot on the accelerator in the same direction.0 -
Or just not accept the deal. I'm perfectly happy with the way we trade with the US - I see no issue.rcs1000 said:
The US has just done the TPP with Japan, Australia, South Korea and others, so it'll be offered to us of the shelf. Of course, we'll have to accept the secret ISDS tribunals, and an obligation to follow the US n terms of copyright law.Anna said:
So back of the fast-track queue then? :-)frpenkridge said:US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fast tracking" bi-lateral trade deal with UK.
Given that the bottleneck is likely to be our government's bandwidth to negotiate deals, where does US come in OUR queue relative to India, China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Canada etc? Personally, I'd put India first, then China...0 -
I'm not a lawyer but my understanding is the reluctance around impeachment/summoning people to the bar of the House is to avoid a clash with Strasbourg. They don't want a ECHR ruling saying Parliament can't act in it's role as a ' High Court ' . But then as we've " had enough of experts " now we could always let a Question Time audience doing an Impeachment Trial of Gove and Boris.Wanderer said:
An act of attainder could explicitly exempt itself from the HRA couldn't it?YellowSubmarine said:
Good Point. Though ironically the ECHR would save them from an old school impeachment.SouthamObserver said:It just gets better and better. At what stage can we look at impeachment for Boris, Gove and co?
https://twitter.com/chrisgiles_/status/7474180860310978560 -
Fair point!JonathanD said:
This country has has enough of experts with their knowledge and clever answers, thank you very much.AndrewSpencer said:
Sorry but this is nonsense. I'm an admissions tutor at a Cambridge college & it's simply not true that 20% of undergraduates at some colleges are Chinese. In 2015 there were 76 Chinese and 87 from Hong Kong out of 3,449 admissions. In total 782 students were admitted from outside the UK.John_N4 said:
So admit thick rich foreigners rather than bright not-so-rich ones?FrancisUrquhart said:
I am well aware of that. As a result, UK student fees in theory could go down (at least at top unis) as there isn't a shortage of people willing to pay the international going rate for top quality education.John_N4 said:
Their fees won't go up, but if Britain leaves the EU then the fees paid by EU undergraduates at British universities are likely to go up by a lot. At the moment they pay the same fees as home students.FrancisUrquhart said:I heard a number of students say that they believed if they didn't vote Remain their student fees would go up. There are a lot of idiots out there.
Many British students have friends from elsewhere in the EU, they don't want fees for EU students to go up, and they voted Remain partly for that reason.
Personally I think British universities admit too many foreign students, both from elsewhere in the EU and from China and elsewhere. At some Cambridge colleges about 20% of undergraduates are Chinese. Education should be improved here so that there are more bright British candidates.
It's going to be very interesting to see how we and other universities respond to EU students, no change at present obviously but it's going to have a big impact and certainly means we can charge EU students (a big growth area in Cambridge in recent years) full fees. We'll end up with fewer of them, which is a shame, but more money to spend elsewhere. A small illustration, we currently spend 1.1 million pounds (out of a total of c£7 million of the top of my head) on bursaries for EU students because we can't discriminate between them and UK students. That money can in the future be freed up to be spent on providing more support for those currently on bursaries or widen the net to their UK students or go towards helping finance those extra-EU students who get places but can't afford to come. 0 -
I believe that much of the money behind Titanic Studios was from EU funding but the actual Tax Credits that mean HBO decides to film in NI are provided by UK/Stormont Governments.Luckyguy1983 said:
I was astonished to find out the EU pays HBO to make GOT in NI. One can't help but wonder which other multi-billion dollar corporations they've been vomiting our money at.Lowlander said:
I realise your sarcasm but for interest :
Emergency Awesome (a youtube channel for comic book and fantasy TV shows) has a video "Will BREXIT effect Game of Thrones" with over half a million views.
Film and TV production has existed off the back of tax credits for years. If you don't provide them, you don't have an industry, basically. As most employment is local contractors, it is probably a good investment.0 -
Back of the burger queueJackW said:
"Fat tracking"frpenkridge said:US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fat tracking"
Bloody hell the CIA Obesity Service has eyes on Soames and Pickles!0 -
Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
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I've never thought of Soames and Pickles as eye candy but hey PB is a broad church and you and your sexual fantasies are between you and the privacy of Nick Soames wardrobe.Luckyguy1983 said:
Hard to have eyes off them really.JackW said:
"Fat tracking"frpenkridge said:US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fat tracking"
Bloody hell the CIA Obesity Service has eyes on Soames and Pickles!
0 -
That would be a big financial hit for GOSH, would it not?rcs1000 said:
The US has just done the TPP with Japan, Australia, South Korea and others, so it'll be offered to us of the shelf. Of course, we'll have to accept the secret ISDS tribunals, and an obligation to follow the US n terms of copyright law.Anna said:
So back of the fast-track queue then? :-)frpenkridge said:US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fast tracking" bi-lateral trade deal with UK.
Given that the bottleneck is likely to be our government's bandwidth to negotiate deals, where does US come in OUR queue relative to India, China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Canada etc? Personally, I'd put India first, then China...0 -
But I thought we just voted LEAVE to avoid TTIP with all its secret ISDS tribunals and copyright law obligations.rcs1000 said:
The US has just done the TPP with Japan, Australia, South Korea and others, so it'll be offered to us of the shelf. Of course, we'll have to accept the secret ISDS tribunals, and an obligation to follow the US n terms of copyright law.Anna said:
So back of the fast-track queue then? :-)frpenkridge said:US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fast tracking" bi-lateral trade deal with UK.
Given that the bottleneck is likely to be our government's bandwidth to negotiate deals, where does US come in OUR queue relative to India, China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Canada etc? Personally, I'd put India first, then China...0 -
That'll teach me to listen to hysterical facebook posts.Lowlander said:
I believe that much of the money behind Titanic Studios was from EU funding but the actual Tax Credits that mean HBO decides to film in NI are provided by UK/Stormont Governments.Luckyguy1983 said:
I was astonished to find out the EU pays HBO to make GOT in NI. One can't help but wonder which other multi-billion dollar corporations they've been vomiting our money at.Lowlander said:
I realise your sarcasm but for interest :
Emergency Awesome (a youtube channel for comic book and fantasy TV shows) has a video "Will BREXIT effect Game of Thrones" with over half a million views.
Film and TV production has existed off the back of tax credits for years. If you don't provide them, you don't have an industry, basically. As most employment is local contractors, it is probably a good investment.0 -
If we really are heading for a significant slowdown in growth next year, or a recession, how about we try what we did in the 1930's - building enough houses to meet demand in parts of the country people want to live in?0
-
bigjohnowls said:
Back of the burger queueJackW said:
"Fat tracking"frpenkridge said:US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fat tracking"
Bloody hell the CIA Obesity Service has eyes on Soames and Pickles! 0 -
But can the UK accept a free trade deal with Ireland while Scotland is about to vote on Independence?chestnut said:Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
0 -
I think impeachment and attainder are different things. Impeachment is judicial but attainder is just (ab)using Parliamentary sovereignty to override someone's civil rights and shaft them.YellowSubmarine said:
I'm not a lawyer but my understanding is the reluctance around impeachment/summoning people to the bar of the House is to avoid a clash with Strasbourg. They don't want a ECHR ruling saying Parliament can't act in it's role as a ' High Court ' . But then as we've " had enough of experts " now we could always let a Question Time audience doing an Impeachment Trial of Gove and Boris.Wanderer said:
An act of attainder could explicitly exempt itself from the HRA couldn't it?YellowSubmarine said:
Good Point. Though ironically the ECHR would save them from an old school impeachment.SouthamObserver said:It just gets better and better. At what stage can we look at impeachment for Boris, Gove and co?
https://twitter.com/chrisgiles_/status/7474180860310978560 -
so basically if the EU doesnt pull its finger out it will have lost one of its biggest marketschestnut said:Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
0 -
I saw that. Rather dented the panic mongers' narrative.MaxPB said:
There actually isn't though. UK debt yields dropped again today in the flight to safety. If markets believed that the UK had a low credit rating then that wouldn't be happening.murali_s said:S&P downgrade UK. This is huge.
Any PB Brexiter want to offer an apology for voting "Leave"? "They lied to me" - if honest is a good reason....0 -
You clutch that straw.Lowlander said:
But can the UK accept a free trade deal with Ireland while Scotland is about to vote on Independence?chestnut said:Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
0 -
Not true. The ERM crisis was entirely self inflicted.Wanderer said:
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.Alanbrooke said:
that;s simply not truerpjs said:
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.SeanT said:I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
1970s economic crisis and IMF
1980s war and recession
1990s kicked out of ERM
2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.0 -
Yep, we have a hell of a lot of hoping to do.kle4 said:
Just as we worked hard(ish) on Austerity but decided in the end other things were more important. Hopefully this will be worth that.numbertwelve said:Well. The credit rating we worked so hard to keep has been lost.
Boris is going to be Prime Minister. He was too scared to attend the Commons today. God help us. Corbyn's excuse is that he is genuinely unintelligent. What's Boris's?
0 -
Yes.Lowlander said:
But can the UK accept a free trade deal with Ireland while Scotland is about to vote on Independence?chestnut said:Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
0 -
But it isn't just my door step, Mr. B. I was down in Dorset this last weekend and the same is happening there, albet not quite so obviously. The weekend before I was up in Leeds, collecting my boy, and there is humongous amounts of building going on.Alanbrooke said:
what happens on your doorstep Mr L isnt the same as across the country.HurstLlama said:
Mr Brooke, we have spoken about this before and I am still at a loss. Everywhere I go I see new housing estates being thrown up. Damit, in Sussex we have new towns going up. So I am at a loss as to how your volumes are declining.Alanbrooke said:
what bloody recovery ? Richard I supply the building trade and that's just bollocks my volumes this year are lower that last. We arent building anywhere near enough houses.Richard_Nabavi said:Housebuilders are a highly leveraged bet on the health of the UK economy. That's why they tanked so badly at the time of the financial crisis, why they have been such a good investment in the Osborne recovery, and why they are falling so rapidly now. Now is probably too early to go back in, I think. The time of maximum fear isn't yet.
Ever thought of sacking your sales manager?
Let us suppose this building boom is confined to the home counties. It is certainly real, it is certainly happening so why isn't your company cashing in? I am at a loss.0 -
It's not a straw. Its basically the fundamental objection to Independence at the moment.Luckyguy1983 said:
You clutch that straw.Lowlander said:
But can the UK accept a free trade deal with Ireland while Scotland is about to vote on Independence?chestnut said:Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
If the UK cuts an open border and free trade deal with Ireland (and it will) then there is literally no way to stop Independence. And if it delays cutting the deal till after Scotland votes and says that it won't, once it does, there will be justification for a third referendum, if the second one says No.0 -
Boris would not be my choice, certainly. But everytime we think someone will beat him, well...SouthamObserver said:
Yep, we have a hell of a lot of hoping to do.kle4 said:
Just as we worked hard(ish) on Austerity but decided in the end other things were more important. Hopefully this will be worth that.numbertwelve said:Well. The credit rating we worked so hard to keep has been lost.
Boris is going to be Prime Minister. He was too scared to attend the Commons today. God help us. Corbyn's excuse is that he is genuinely unintelligent. What's Boris's?0 -
LOL - what can I say. It's those bedroom chins.JackW said:
I've never thought of Soames and Pickles as eye candy but hey PB is a broad church and you and your sexual fantasies are between you and the privacy of Nick Soames wardrobe.Luckyguy1983 said:
Hard to have eyes off them really.JackW said:
"Fat tracking"frpenkridge said:US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fat tracking"
Bloody hell the CIA Obesity Service has eyes on Soames and Pickles!0 -
Yes, but not intentionally. In this case we have deliberately brought a crisis on ourselves our of a clear sky.Richard_Tyndall said:
Not true. The ERM crisis was entirely self inflicted.Wanderer said:
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.Alanbrooke said:
that;s simply not truerpjs said:
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.SeanT said:I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
1970s economic crisis and IMF
1980s war and recession
1990s kicked out of ERM
2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.0 -
Not from an area affected by the banana trade wars then.Luckyguy1983 said:
Or just not accept the deal. I'm perfectly happy with the way we trade with the US - I see no issue.rcs1000 said:
The US has just done the TPP with Japan, Australia, South Korea and others, so it'll be offered to us of the shelf. Of course, we'll have to accept the secret ISDS tribunals, and an obligation to follow the US n terms of copyright law.Anna said:
So back of the fast-track queue then? :-)frpenkridge said:US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fast tracking" bi-lateral trade deal with UK.
Given that the bottleneck is likely to be our government's bandwidth to negotiate deals, where does US come in OUR queue relative to India, China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Canada etc? Personally, I'd put India first, then China...0 -
Does anyone know if the current US ' Fast Track ' legislation would cover a UK bilateral deal or is it just TTIP/TPP ? If not presumably they'd have to get fresh legislation through Congress ?0
-
Just seen the S&P story. At what stage do the more sensible Leavers throw in their cards? What's the threshold?0
-
If they had one to take in the first place, that is. Plenty of richer pensioners to be will have voted Remain.Alistair said:
No, because they'll have already taken their annuity.Fenman said:Annuity rates for pensions cut. Looks like those who will suffer are those who voted us into this mess. Don't the Germans have a word for it?
0 -
Who's this "we"Wanderer said:
Yes, but not intentionally. In this case we have deliberately brought a crisis on ourselves our of a clear sky.Richard_Tyndall said:
Not true. The ERM crisis was entirely self inflicted.Wanderer said:
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.Alanbrooke said:
that;s simply not truerpjs said:
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.SeanT said:I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
1970s economic crisis and IMF
1980s war and recession
1990s kicked out of ERM
2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
Cameron called the referndum and then screwed it up.0 -
It sounds obvious, but the only way to avoid Scottish independence is for the Scots not to want independence.Lowlander said:
It's not a straw. Its basically the fundamental objection to Independence at the moment.Luckyguy1983 said:
You clutch that straw.Lowlander said:
But can the UK accept a free trade deal with Ireland while Scotland is about to vote on Independence?chestnut said:Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
If the UK cuts an open border and free trade deal with Ireland (and it will) then there is literally no way to stop Independence. And if it delays cutting the deal till after Scotland votes and says that it won't, once it does, there will be justification for a third referendum, if the second one says No.
That implies making a success out of post-Brexit Britain.0 -
Last week, we had a happy, liberal, prosperous, open country.Wanderer said:
Yes, but not intentionally. In this case we have deliberately brought a crisis on ourselves our of a clear sky.Richard_Tyndall said:
Not true. The ERM crisis was entirely self inflicted.Wanderer said:
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.Alanbrooke said:
that;s simply not truerpjs said:
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.SeanT said:I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
1970s economic crisis and IMF
1980s war and recession
1990s kicked out of ERM
2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
This week, we have an inward looking, scared, bigoted, economically threatened one.
And it's of our own making.0 -
No need for the Dutch, Danes and Swedes to worry then.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Free movement with countries that have much lower wages ...0 -
My hunch is that, in five years, the world will be beating down our door to do business with us and we'll be booming... But I suspect the next year or two will be tough and there's no guarantee people will hold their nerve,chestnut said:Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
In a few months we might be voting to REMAIN (probably through a general election rather than a referendum) with Article 50 never getting triggered in the end.0 -
Why would it matter if they did?Jobabob said:Just seen the S&P story. At what stage do the more sensible Leavers throw in their cards? What's the threshold?
0 -
Did you read your final sentence before you hit "post"?Luckyguy1983 said:
It sounds obvious, but the only way to avoid Scottish independence is for the Scots not to want independence.Lowlander said:
It's not a straw. Its basically the fundamental objection to Independence at the moment.Luckyguy1983 said:
You clutch that straw.Lowlander said:
But can the UK accept a free trade deal with Ireland while Scotland is about to vote on Independence?chestnut said:Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
If the UK cuts an open border and free trade deal with Ireland (and it will) then there is literally no way to stop Independence. And if it delays cutting the deal till after Scotland votes and says that it won't, once it does, there will be justification for a third referendum, if the second one says No.
That implies making a success out of post-Brexit Britain.
There is still time to delete it and replace it with something remotely likely.0 -
Anger stage.Jobabob said:
Last week, we had a happy, liberal, prosperous, open country.Wanderer said:
Yes, but not intentionally. In this case we have deliberately brought a crisis on ourselves our of a clear sky.Richard_Tyndall said:
Not true. The ERM crisis was entirely self inflicted.Wanderer said:
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.Alanbrooke said:
that;s simply not truerpjs said:
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.SeanT said:I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
1970s economic crisis and IMF
1980s war and recession
1990s kicked out of ERM
2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
This week, we have an inward looking, scared, bigoted, economically threatened one.
And it's of our own making.0 -
AndrewSpencer said:
Fair point!JonathanD said:
This country has has enough of experts with their knowledge and clever answers, thank you very much.AndrewSpencer said:
Sorry but this is nonsense. I'm an admissions tutor at a Cambridge college & it's simply not true that .John_N4 said:
So admit thick rich foreigners rather than bright not-so-rich ones?FrancisUrquhart said:
I am well aware of that. As a result, UK student fees in theory could go down (at least at top unis) as there isn't a shortage of people willing to pay the international going rate for top quality education.John_N4 said:
Their fees won't go up, but if Britain leaves the EU then the fees paid by EU undergraduates at British universities are likely to go up by a lot. At the moment they pay the same fees as home students.FrancisUrquhart said:I heard a number of students say that they believed if they didn't vote Remain their student fees would go up. There are a lot of idiots out there.
Many British students have friends from elsewhere in the EU, they don't want fees for EU students to go up, and they voted Remain partly for that reason.
Personally I think British universities admit too many foreign students, both from elsewhere in the EU and from China and elsewhere. At some Cambridge colleges about 20% of undergraduates are Chinese. Education should be improved here so that there are more bright British candidates. It's going to be very interesting to see how we and other universities respond to EU students, no change at present obviously but it's going to have a big impact and certainly means we can charge EU students (a big growth area in Cambridge in recent years) full fees. We'll end up with fewer of them, which is a shame, but more money to spend elsewhere. A small illustration, we currently spend 1.1 million pounds (out of a total of c£7 million of the top of my head) on bursaries for EU students because we can't discriminate between them and UK students. That money can in the future be freed up to be spent on providing more support for those currently on bursaries or widen the net to their UK students or go towards helping finance those extra-EU students who get places but can't afford to come.
Our uni has been sending emails of reassurance all day long. some of the EU academics are pretty angered by it all as they view the campaign and vote as a big 'screw you'.
I think the impact for us will be on the research side and some of the links we have with EU industry.
0 -
rcs - genuine question. Was the US proposing to pay a 'pay to play' fee for access to the EU markets? Do any non-European countries who have FTAs with the EU?rcs1000 said:
The US has just done the TPP with Japan, Australia, South Korea and others, so it'll be offered to us of the shelf. Of course, we'll have to accept the secret ISDS tribunals, and an obligation to follow the US n terms of copyright law.Anna said:
So back of the fast-track queue then? :-)frpenkridge said:US CNBC saying State Department having talks with business leaders about "fast tracking" bi-lateral trade deal with UK.
Given that the bottleneck is likely to be our government's bandwidth to negotiate deals, where does US come in OUR queue relative to India, China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Canada etc? Personally, I'd put India first, then China...
I think one negotiating approach would be to tell the EU we refuse to pay and will accept WTO rules, then set up our FTAs with others, then come back to the EU to talk a sensible, no fee deal with them when they are over their need to punish us.
The aim would not be to go that route (although we'd have to be prepared to), but to make them more sensible in their negotiations with us if they start setting demands that significantly worsen the UK's current position.0 -
Sorry Mr LI can only report the figures I see. My main building product is components for under floor heating and my customer has a large national sales force so in effect I sell what he sells. On the other side I also supply equipment for rail track and that is even worse as HMG arent in a rush to upgrade infrastructure. I have one large project which is now 15 months overdue.HurstLlama said:
But it isn't just my door step, Mr. B. I was down in Dorset this last weekend and the same is happening there, albet not quite so obviously. The weekend before I was up in Leeds, collecting my boy, and there is humongous amounts of building going on.Alanbrooke said:
what happens on your doorstep Mr L isnt the same as across the country.HurstLlama said:
Mr Brooke, we have spoken about this before and I am still at a loss. Everywhere I go I see new housing estates being thrown up. Damit, in Sussex we have new towns going up. So I am at a loss as to how your volumes are declining.Alanbrooke said:
what bloody recovery ? Richard I supply the building trade and that's just bollocks my volumes this year are lower that last. We arent building anywhere near enough houses.Richard_Nabavi said:Housebuilders are a highly leveraged bet on the health of the UK economy. That's why they tanked so badly at the time of the financial crisis, why they have been such a good investment in the Osborne recovery, and why they are falling so rapidly now. Now is probably too early to go back in, I think. The time of maximum fear isn't yet.
Ever thought of sacking your sales manager?
Let us suppose this building boom is confined to the home counties. It is certainly real, it is certainly happening so why isn't your company cashing in? I am at a loss.0 -
It's time to put Welsh independence on agenda – Leanne Wood
http://gu.com/p/4mn3n?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard0 -
It's a vote of no confidence in the UK economy. People won't risk anything remotely speculative as they fear they'll get no returns if they do.MaxPB said:
There actually isn't though. UK debt yields dropped again today in the flight to safety. If markets believed that the UK had a low credit rating then that wouldn't be happening.murali_s said:S&P downgrade UK. This is huge.
Any PB Brexiter want to offer an apology for voting "Leave"? "They lied to me" - if honest is a good reason....
Sorry, right now things are not panning out well. Hopefully, we'll be back to normal soon. But this is not a good start.
0 -
Local builders in Teignbridge are snowed under with work, apparently.HurstLlama said:
But it isn't just my door step, Mr. B. I was down in Dorset this last weekend and the same is happening there, albet not quite so obviously. The weekend before I was up in Leeds, collecting my boy, and there is humongous amounts of building going on.Alanbrooke said:
what happens on your doorstep Mr L isnt the same as across the country.HurstLlama said:
Mr Brooke, we have spoken about this before and I am still at a loss. Everywhere I go I see new housing estates being thrown up. Damit, in Sussex we have new towns going up. So I am at a loss as to how your volumes are declining.Alanbrooke said:
what bloody recovery ? Richard I supply the building trade and that's just bollocks my volumes this year are lower that last. We arent building anywhere near enough houses.Richard_Nabavi said:Housebuilders are a highly leveraged bet on the health of the UK economy. That's why they tanked so badly at the time of the financial crisis, why they have been such a good investment in the Osborne recovery, and why they are falling so rapidly now. Now is probably too early to go back in, I think. The time of maximum fear isn't yet.
Ever thought of sacking your sales manager?
Let us suppose this building boom is confined to the home counties. It is certainly real, it is certainly happening so why isn't your company cashing in? I am at a loss.0 -
Where do you live ? I'm in the UK.Jobabob said:
Last week, we had a happy, liberal, prosperous, open country.Wanderer said:
Yes, but not intentionally. In this case we have deliberately brought a crisis on ourselves our of a clear sky.Richard_Tyndall said:
Not true. The ERM crisis was entirely self inflicted.Wanderer said:
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.Alanbrooke said:
that;s simply not truerpjs said:
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.SeanT said:I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
1970s economic crisis and IMF
1980s war and recession
1990s kicked out of ERM
2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
This week, we have an inward looking, scared, bigoted, economically threatened one.
And it's of our own making.0 -
Indeed, I notice that the crackpot theories suggesting that Brexit result can be overthrown is fading as reality sets in and the beginnings of anger at that realisation broodLuckyguy1983 said:
Anger stage.0 -
McDonnell: "small number of MPs seeking to undermine the Party. Corbyn not resigning... New Shadow Cabinet meets tomorrow."0
-
The economics of that are challenging.YellowSubmarine said:It's time to put Welsh independence on agenda – Leanne Wood
http://gu.com/p/4mn3n?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard0 -
Nuclear winter, possibly.Jobabob said:Just seen the S&P story. At what stage do the more sensible Leavers throw in their cards? What's the threshold?
0 -
Very sad.Jobabob said:
Last week, we had a happy, liberal, prosperous, open country.Wanderer said:
Yes, but not intentionally. In this case we have deliberately brought a crisis on ourselves our of a clear sky.Richard_Tyndall said:
Not true. The ERM crisis was entirely self inflicted.Wanderer said:
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.Alanbrooke said:
that;s simply not truerpjs said:
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.SeanT said:I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
1970s economic crisis and IMF
1980s war and recession
1990s kicked out of ERM
2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
This week, we have an inward looking, scared, bigoted, economically threatened one.
And it's of our own making.0 -
That's really funny considering Wales voted pretty heavily for Leave.YellowSubmarine said:It's time to put Welsh independence on agenda – Leanne Wood
http://gu.com/p/4mn3n?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard0 -
I think he lives on Mars.Alanbrooke said:
Where do you live ? I'm in the UK.Jobabob said:
Last week, we had a happy, liberal, prosperous, open country.Wanderer said:
Yes, but not intentionally. In this case we have deliberately brought a crisis on ourselves our of a clear sky.Richard_Tyndall said:
Not true. The ERM crisis was entirely self inflicted.Wanderer said:
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.Alanbrooke said:
that;s simply not truerpjs said:
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.SeanT said:I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
1970s economic crisis and IMF
1980s war and recession
1990s kicked out of ERM
2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
This week, we have an inward looking, scared, bigoted, economically threatened one.
And it's of our own making.0 -
Given how overwhelmingly Wales voted to LEAVE shouldn't Leanne Wood be considering her position?YellowSubmarine said:It's time to put Welsh independence on agenda – Leanne Wood
http://gu.com/p/4mn3n?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
She's no Nicola that's for sure...0 -
On topic, I tipped Remain at short odds in May. Obviously, I was quite wrong. I apologise to anyone who lost money as a result.0
-
You must try not to believe the squealers of Broadcasting House in such a naive fashion. The fundamentals of Britain's position in the world just got a whole lot better. Whether we make a success of it or not depends on leadership. We're not in a great starting position, but now we're not in the EU we're at least in the race.Lowlander said:
Did you read your final sentence before you hit "post"?Luckyguy1983 said:
It sounds obvious, but the only way to avoid Scottish independence is for the Scots not to want independence.Lowlander said:
It's not a straw. Its basically the fundamental objection to Independence at the moment.Luckyguy1983 said:
You clutch that straw.Lowlander said:
But can the UK accept a free trade deal with Ireland while Scotland is about to vote on Independence?chestnut said:Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
If the UK cuts an open border and free trade deal with Ireland (and it will) then there is literally no way to stop Independence. And if it delays cutting the deal till after Scotland votes and says that it won't, once it does, there will be justification for a third referendum, if the second one says No.
That implies making a success out of post-Brexit Britain.
There is still time to delete it and replace it with something remotely likely.0 -
People in Wales seem quite happy being a little part of England.YellowSubmarine said:It's time to put Welsh independence on agenda – Leanne Wood
http://gu.com/p/4mn3n?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard0 -
-
HaYellowSubmarine said:It's time to put Welsh independence on agenda – Leanne Wood
http://gu.com/p/4mn3n?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
"Even though this situation was not of our making"
Erm, how did Wales vote again?0 -
PC really are baby SNP, aren't they? At least the SNP waited for a good pretext to try again.YellowSubmarine said:It's time to put Welsh independence on agenda – Leanne Wood
http://gu.com/p/4mn3n?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard0 -
Nuts.Luckyguy1983 said:
Anger stage.Jobabob said:
Last week, we had a happy, liberal, prosperous, open country.Wanderer said:
Yes, but not intentionally. In this case we have deliberately brought a crisis on ourselves our of a clear sky.Richard_Tyndall said:
Not true. The ERM crisis was entirely self inflicted.Wanderer said:
We've never willingly brought a crisis on ourselves though. At least not since 1642. Indeed, it's almost the essence of Toryism not to do such a thing.Alanbrooke said:
that;s simply not truerpjs said:
It seems to me that the saddest part of this entire fiasco is not that the UK will or may or may not leave the EU, or join EFTA or the EEA or a renewed Imperial Preference Sphere, but that we have just thrown away our reputation for stability. There really are very few countries in the world that can point to decades, let alone centuries of stable government. It was always part of Britain's appeal as a place to live and come to do business that we change through evolution, not revolution. Crises come and go, sometimes of our making, sometimes forced upon us, but we could always point out that we don't EVER decide to throw the toys out of the pram and have a political / constitutional meltdown just for shits and giggles.SeanT said:I think it's time some of the wobblier and more gelatinous of pb-ers got a bloody grip, the flailing and mewling on here has been pathetic. This is a great and ancient nation, we will prosper in time, as we have prospered before. The shackles of the EU have been struck from our limbs and now we can walk tall and free.
So stop this pitiful bedwettting and get on with it. You know who I mean.
*stops staring at mirror*
*climbs up Primrose Hill*
Until now.
It's a bit like the old saw about how do the Oxbridge colleges have such perfect lawns - they just do the same thing over and over again for hundreds of years. And now we've just poured a tonne (sorry, TON, now that we're free of the EU jackboot!) of paraquat onto our lawn...
1970s economic crisis and IMF
1980s war and recession
1990s kicked out of ERM
2000s banking crisis
weve always had turbulence since capitalism causes crises but in this revolution so far there arent any bodies on the street, no strikers a la France, no meltdown a la Greece. In Europe only Germany runs us close and they have their own sets of problems which will hit them hard in the next decade imo.
This week, we have an inward looking, scared, bigoted, economically threatened one.
And it's of our own making.0 -
Evening all
Panic, hysteria, confusion, turmoil - but enough about the Conservative and Labour parties.
I see the Conservatives have been "cajoled" (someone read the editorial in the Current Bun this morning perhaps) into speeding up the process so I can imagine frantic messaging this evening as the field takes shape. Johnson, May, Crabb, Fox, A.N Other, S.O Else, Osborne, who knows ?
As for Labour, I'm reminded of the Cabinet members telling Thatcher she had to go in 1990. The Shadow Cabinet has tried to tell Corbyn the same thing - the only trouble is he ain't listening and can rely on the "people" to support him.
Musing on the tube home, I think what we saw last Thursday was a repudiation of the current economic and political culture from a significant number of people who have not seen their living standards improve since the 2008 crash. That's not down to the EU but with those backing REMAIN playing to the economic benefits of continued membership, I think there was a response of "what benefits ?".
Hiding within that (and let's be honest about it) is a perception that migration may have benefited the overall economy but has not benefited individuals and their communities. That perception was fed by LEAVE and I understand it - whether it's the criminals or the men who would rather sleep under the Canning Town flyover, it's clear that for many migration is at best a mixed blessing.
There's a profound disconnection between the Government and some of those being governed. I struggle to explain how a local authority has to spend £100 million of Government money every year on extending the number of school places (the undertone is these are for the children of migrants) while services for vulnerable children and adults are being reduced or more harshly assessed.
I don't have the answers but at least it's now out in the open and instead of preening themselves like so many useless birds, the contenders for the job of Prime Minister might want to share their ideas of what kind of society we want to be. They might not be elected by us but they will be governing for all of us until the next election.0 -
Sadly, I fear you might be right.MonikerDiCanio said:
Nuclear winter, possibly.Jobabob said:Just seen the S&P story. At what stage do the more sensible Leavers throw in their cards? What's the threshold?
0 -
Skinner on the platform...
Speech!
"Greatest crowd since the Miners won in 1974"0 -
Where do you live ? I'm in the UK.Alanbrooke said:<
And it's of our own making.
Assuming NI is where you are, would I be right to assume that NI suffered severe contagion from the property bubble and subsequent collapse caused by RoI euro membership and therefore building industry still hasnt recovered?0 -
I think that's an unfair comparison.GIN1138 said:
Given how overwhelmingly Wales voted to LEAVE shouldn't Leanne Wood be considering her position?YellowSubmarine said:It's time to put Welsh independence on agenda – Leanne Wood
http://gu.com/p/4mn3n?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
She's no Nicola that's for sure...
Leanne Wood is no Alex Salmond and has been completely incapable of pivoting Plaid to the Left AND taking their voters and party members with them.
Nicola never had to do this, the pivot was a fair accompli. She may have been capable of doing it but she was never given that test.0 -
The FT is reporting that India are very keen to start talks on an FTA as the talks with the EU have been stalled for years.GIN1138 said:
My hunch is that, in five years, the world will be beating down our door to do business with us and we'll be booming... But I suspect the next year or two will be tough and there's no guarantee people will hold their nerve,chestnut said:Ghana, NZ and EFTA can be added to that grouping, and it's pretty clear that the Irish are going to cite special circumstances in terms of trading with the UK/EU.
In a few months we might be voting to REMAIN (probably through a general election rather than a referendum) with Article 50 never getting triggered in the end.
"Talks on an India-EU trade deal began nearly a decade ago but quickly stalled. Swapan Dasgupta, an independent member of parliament close to the ruling Bharatiya Janata party, said concluding an India-UK trade deal would be far easier.
“If an FTA [free-trade agreement] negotiating unit is 25 constituent countries with their own pluses and minuses, you are not going to get to some sort of common ground where the losses balance the gains,” he said. “But there is a far greater chance of it with the UK. We understand each other, and there is very little clash in what we want.”0 -
Has she looked at the Euref result in Wales lolAlastairMeeks said:
The economics of that are challenging.YellowSubmarine said:It's time to put Welsh independence on agenda – Leanne Wood
http://gu.com/p/4mn3n?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard0
