Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.
"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.
It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.
There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.
To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...
I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.
Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.
Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.
Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.
Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.
Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.
Meaning that GDP is now approximately 3.3% lower than Osborne predicted it would be.
Note also that growth in GDP per capita is approximately 0.8% lower each year than basic GDP growth.
Unimpressive, but at least there never was a double-dip recession.
The surprise isn't that there wasn't a double dip recession but that Britain came close to one despite all the borrowed money pumped into the economy. Osborne's over-borrowing currently stands at £180bn.
...
No it's not. GDP growth figures are relative to the previous period, so what matters is not how much stimulus a government pumps in (or - ha - withdraws) but how that amount compares with last quarter/year. (Also, where it's come from and what it's crowded out).
In fact, Osborne over-borrowed because growth was weak, not the other way round.
That assumes that the effects of the stimulus of the first year disappear in the second. Instead it continues to be felt but in slowly decreasing amounts as the wealth it represents is consumed or exported.
So in year two you have the effects of the year two stimulus plus part of the year one stimulus.
In year three you have the effects of the year three stimulus plus part of the year two stimulus plus a smaller part of the year one stimulus etc.
A little grace, humility and ability to adapt to a fast-changing world isn't a bad thing. I grant you there are some quaint old customs worth retaining but pomposity and delusions of grandeur aren't among them.
We should be thankful enough that the American world deigns to retain the word 'English' for our language without being too pompous, colonial and antediluvian about this sort of nomenclature.
It's the British Open now. Humility trumps arrogance.
We should be thankful enough that the American world deigns to retain the word 'English' for our language without being too pompous, colonial and antediluvian about this sort of nomenclature.
It's the British Open now. Humility trumps arrogance.
It is The Open Championship.
Correct - just as it is the The PGA Championship (not US PGA) and The Masters (not US Masters).
Nah. There's a US Open so it's a good Americanism (yes there are such things) to distinguish the British one. Calling it The Open as if there are no others, smacks of the kind of colonial tosh that we really have to leave behind. And I'm a Brexiteer.
A little grace, humility and ability to adapt to a fast-changing world isn't a bad thing. I grant you there are some quaint old customs worth retaining but pomposity and delusions of grandeur aren't among them.
4 Majors: US Open, British Open, US Masters and US PGA.
Tosh it is "The Open" , none of your second rate US pygmy tournaments here.
It's the same with stamps. GB and NI stamps were the first ever issued, so the UK does not have to put the country on the face of the stamp.
Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.
"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.
It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.
There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.
To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...
I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.
Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.
Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.
Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.
Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.
Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.
I can't believe it could be true. It's like hoping to be asked out by your crush - even if he does, I'll still be Are You Sure? Me? Really?
I think it's quite smart by Leave assuming Trump is disciplined and on message (and I think he can be).
He turns up in London. Cameron kind of has to meet him, or look like a jerk. (They could met in Scotland as well). So Cameron is tied down for half a day in a strongly Remain area, but one where he doesn't appeal to the voters.
The TV pictures the night before the vote are of Cameron and Trump, which is unlikely to make left wing Remain voters inclined to to out and vote got that nice Mr Cameron (unless he is rude about Trump to his face which diplomacy makes difficult).
All Trump has to do is day nothing controversial (and nothing about the vote). Something like "I'm not going to interfere, it's up to the Brits. But I will say that Britain is a great nation with a proud history. I and millions of my fellow Americans value the close friendship between our two countries and that isn't going to change regardless of what you decide tomorrow"
You could potentially massively reassure nervous voters on the trade issue at a point when it is too late for Remain to do anything about it.
I've just completed my postal vote . Had to restrain the force that I used to put my cross in the leave box so I didn't tear the paper.
When you commit suicide , make sure you press the trigger of the revolver harder .
Naught but REMAIN scaremongering!
Lemmings jumping off the EU cliff shouting "We Are Free We Are Free" on the way down to the rocks below .
Remind me how many seats the extremely pro-EU LibDems lost at the General Election. Ta.
The "extremely pro-EU LibDems" have been notable by their absence during the referendum.
Absent or just being ignored by the media?
Ignored. The party claims it has over 350 street stalls. They have also just received a donation of £30,000 to run a campaign on remain pledge cards which the Democrats have used successfully in the USA to stimulate turnout.
"IN supporting Cabinet Ministers admit that Leave have had a good week. But they argue that they won’t be able to ride the immigration issue to victory on June 23rd. One argues that you can’t focus on immigration week after week, or ‘By week four, you end up sounding like Nigel Farage’.
Meaning that GDP is now approximately 3.3% lower than Osborne predicted it would be.
Note also that growth in GDP per capita is approximately 0.8% lower each year than basic GDP growth.
Unimpressive, but at least there never was a double-dip recession.
The surprise isn't that there wasn't a double dip recession but that Britain came close to one despite all the borrowed money pumped into the economy. Osborne's over-borrowing currently stands at £180bn.
Note that the increase in growth in 2014 is closely related to the increase in house prices and consumer spending and is followed by the current account deficit reaching an all time high.
So much for Osborne's promise to rebalance the economy to 'savings, investments and exports'.
Year zero reset to 2010 type post.
I'll judge Osborne on his actual record compared to what he promised to do.
For your information I was criticizing the Brown's economic record on this site whilst Osborne was promising to match Labour's spending plans and to 'share the proceeds of growth'.
And I was the person who pointed out that Darling had increased his borrowing predictions by over half a trillion pounds between his 2008 and 2009 Budgets.
Unlike many people on PB I do not change my views of government policies depending upon the colour of the rosette the government wears.
The unfortunate fact is that Osborne has borrowed £180bn (and growing) more than he said he would - enjoy paying back your share of that.
Meaning that GDP is now approximately 3.3% lower than Osborne predicted it would be.
Note also that growth in GDP per capita is approximately 0.8% lower each year than basic GDP growth.
Unimpressive, but at least there never was a double-dip recession.
The surprise isn't that there wasn't a double dip recession but that Britain came close to one despite all the borrowed money pumped into the economy. Osborne's over-borrowing currently stands at £180bn.
...
No it's not. GDP growth figures are relative to the previous period, so what matters is not how much stimulus a government pumps in (or - ha - withdraws) but how that amount compares with last quarter/year. (Also, where it's come from and what it's crowded out).
In fact, Osborne over-borrowed because growth was weak, not the other way round.
That assumes that the effects of the stimulus of the first year disappear in the second. Instead it continues to be felt but in slowly decreasing amounts as the wealth it represents is consumed or exported.
So in year two you have the effects of the year two stimulus plus part of the year one stimulus.
In year three you have the effects of the year three stimulus plus part of the year two stimulus plus a smaller part of the year one stimulus etc.
One reason why its best to take a big hit to spending in the first year of a parliament, eliminate the deficit , and then start to grow from a lower base having put the cuts behind us.
Dragging out the cuts is also politically more difficult because people don't see why we can't carry on kicking the can up the road as we have in previous years.
Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.
"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.
It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.
There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.
To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...
I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.
Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.
Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.
Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.
Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.
Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.
"IN supporting Cabinet Ministers admit that Leave have had a good week. But they argue that they won’t be able to ride the immigration issue to victory on June 23rd. One argues that you can’t focus on immigration week after week, or ‘By week four, you end up sounding like Nigel Farage’.
Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.
"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.
It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.
There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.
To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...
I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.
Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.
Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.
Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.
Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.
Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.
What happens next, then? Like the retired and those who choose not to work, the Establishment - Remain and Leave - will feel very few negative effects of Brexit, if any. They are innocultaed. Those who will end up suffering if it all goes pear-shaped are the same people that always do: ordinary punters and their families. Let's hope that the leave Establishment has called this right.
'Can honestly say I've not seen Tim Farron or any other LD MP on the TV. Not once. And given I see a disproportionate % of rolling news, that's quite a feat.'
"IN supporting Cabinet Ministers admit that Leave have had a good week. But they argue that they won’t be able to ride the immigration issue to victory on June 23rd. One argues that you can’t focus on immigration week after week, or ‘By week four, you end up sounding like Nigel Farage’.
Well of course they can focus on immigration week after week. What's a bit of hyperbolic scare-mongering when the freedom of the country is at stake?
btw, am on the train, listening to a dim-witted woman wittering on behind me, who is so confused she is not going to vote (although she did acknowledge that Europe was trying to federalise, same as in 1940).
O/t FPT I was reading the comments last night re the decimalisation discussion and how within the UK there was a sort of mix between imperial and metric. I was quite surprised given this is a betting site that no one seemed to mention the obvious one
Horses as far as I am aware are still sold in Guineas and measured in hands. Prize money in some cases is also Guineas. Not sure if there is a continental or metric equivalent for the hands ....or perhaps there is? At 21 shillings it would be two pounds 10p for a Guinea I think and whatever that is in Euro?
We should be thankful enough that the American world deigns to retain the word 'English' for our language without being too pompous, colonial and antediluvian about this sort of nomenclature.
It's the British Open now. Humility trumps arrogance.
We should be thankful enough that the American world deigns to retain the word 'English' for our language without being too pompous, colonial and antediluvian about this sort of nomenclature.
It's the British Open now. Humility trumps arrogance.
It is The Open Championship.
Correct - just as it is the The PGA Championship (not US PGA) and The Masters (not US Masters).
Nah. There's a US Open so it's a good Americanism (yes there are such things) to distinguish the British one. Calling it The Open as if there are no others, smacks of the kind of colonial tosh that we really have to leave behind. And I'm a Brexiteer.
A little grace, humility and ability to adapt to a fast-changing world isn't a bad thing. I grant you there are some quaint old customs worth retaining but pomposity and delusions of grandeur aren't among them.
4 Majors: US Open, British Open, US Masters and US PGA.
There is no such thing as The British Open, the R&A will confirm that. The Open Championship and The Amateur Championship are what they are.
That's not quite true. There is a British Open, but it's a women's tournament.
Ignored. The party claims it has over 350 street stalls. They have also just received a donation of £30,000 to run a campaign on remain pledge cards which the Democrats have used successfully in the USA to stimulate turnout.
Indeed and in Orpington it was the LDs publicly running the IN stall while the Tories scuttled and sniped in the shadows. Yesterday the Evening Standard had a full page ad from Labourleave so the usual half witted analysis from the usual suspects can be ignored.
Both Labour and the LDs have elements supporting LEAVE but it seems to be barely mentioned.
I did note Tim Farron visiting Sherborne where the Conservatives lost a Dorset County Council seat on Thursday so he's doing something useful.
O/t FPT I was reading the comments last night re the decimalisation discussion and how within the UK there was a sort of mix between imperial and metric. I was quite surprised given this is a betting site that no one seemed to mention the obvious one
Horses as far as I am aware are still sold in Guineas and measured in hands. Prize money in some cases is also Guineas. Not sure if there is a continental or metric equivalent for the hands ....or perhaps there is? At 21 shillings it would be two pounds 10p for a Guinea I think and whatever that is in Euro?
Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.
"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.
It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.
There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.
To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...
I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.
Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.
Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.
Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.
Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.
Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.
A little grace, humility and ability to adapt to a fast-changing world isn't a bad thing. I grant you there are some quaint old customs worth retaining but pomposity and delusions of grandeur aren't among them.
Cough..World Series..cough
You mean the one the 30 best baseball clubs in the world compete for?
I've just completed my postal vote . Had to restrain the force that I used to put my cross in the leave box so I didn't tear the paper.
When you commit suicide , make sure you press the trigger of the revolver harder .
Naught but REMAIN scaremongering!
Lemmings jumping off the EU cliff shouting "We Are Free We Are Free" on the way down to the rocks below .
Remind me how many seats the extremely pro-EU LibDems lost at the General Election. Ta.
The "extremely pro-EU LibDems" have been notable by their absence during the referendum.
Can honestly say I've not seen Tim Farron or any other LD MP on the TV. Not once. And given I see a disproportionate % of rolling news, that's quite a feat.
This, of course, is the choice of the media not the Lib Dems.
On the other hand it did the Lib Dems no favours for Nick Clegg to debate the EU with Nigel Farage at the European elections.
Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.
"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.
It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.
There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.
To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...
I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.
Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.
Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.
Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.
Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.
Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.
What happens next, then? Like the retired and those who choose not to work, the Establishment - Remain and Leave - will feel very few negative effects of Brexit, if any. They are innocultaed. Those who will end up suffering if it all goes pear-shaped are the same people that always do: ordinary punters and their families. Let's hope that the leave Establishment has called this right.
You need to explain how people in the UK will suffer if we stop shovelling £billions abroad every year
O/t FPT I was reading the comments last night re the decimalisation discussion and how within the UK there was a sort of mix between imperial and metric. I was quite surprised given this is a betting site that no one seemed to mention the obvious one
Horses as far as I am aware are still sold in Guineas and measured in hands. Prize money in some cases is also Guineas. Not sure if there is a continental or metric equivalent for the hands ....or perhaps there is? At 21 shillings it would be two pounds 10p for a Guinea I think and whatever that is in Euro?
Isn't a Guinea £1 and one shilling. There were 20 shillings in a pound as far as I remember, which meant there were 240 pennies in a pound. My first pocket money was threepence, raised to sixpence just before decimalisation. That turned into 2.5p.
I had a brief conversation about the referendum at my workplace for the first time. It was my colleague that brought up the subject. He asked me if I was In or Out. I told him I was In. He told me he was undecided. We agreed that both campaigns have been terrible and that we'd both, largely, stopped following the national debate and were only taking our own instincts into consideration now.
O/t FPT I was reading the comments last night re the decimalisation discussion and how within the UK there was a sort of mix between imperial and metric. I was quite surprised given this is a betting site that no one seemed to mention the obvious one
Horses as far as I am aware are still sold in Guineas and measured in hands. Prize money in some cases is also Guineas. Not sure if there is a continental or metric equivalent for the hands ....or perhaps there is? At 21 shillings it would be two pounds 10p for a Guinea I think and whatever that is in Euro?
Isn't a Guinea £1 and one shilling. There were 20 shillings in a pound as far as I remember, which meant there were 240 pennies in a pound. My first pocket money was threepence, raised to sixpence just before decimalisation. That turned into 2.5p.
Threepence!
We were lucky to get a clip round the ear and a crust of bread.
Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.
"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.
It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.
There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.
To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...
I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.
Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.
Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.
Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.
Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.
Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.
What happens next, then? Like the retired and those who choose not to work, the Establishment - Remain and Leave - will feel very few negative effects of Brexit, if any. They are innocultaed. Those who will end up suffering if it all goes pear-shaped are the same people that always do: ordinary punters and their families. Let's hope that the leave Establishment has called this right.
You need to explain how people in the UK will suffer if we stop shovelling £billions abroad every year
Because those billions put us in the single market. This reduces the cost of doing business in Europe, drives exports, creates jobs and delivers significant tax income for the government.
O/t FPT I was reading the comments last night re the decimalisation discussion and how within the UK there was a sort of mix between imperial and metric. I was quite surprised given this is a betting site that no one seemed to mention the obvious one
Horses as far as I am aware are still sold in Guineas and measured in hands. Prize money in some cases is also Guineas. Not sure if there is a continental or metric equivalent for the hands ....or perhaps there is? At 21 shillings it would be two pounds 10p for a Guinea I think and whatever that is in Euro?
Isn't a Guinea £1 and one shilling. There were 20 shillings in a pound as far as I remember, which meant there were 240 pennies in a pound. My first pocket money was threepence, raised to sixpence just before decimalisation. That turned into 2.5p.
I nearly said the one pound and one shilling. Had to think but you may well be right.
Ah yes 2.5p I was going on he premise that 10p was a shilling. It's so long since I thought about it I must be fully metricated now. Or is that indoctrinated?
On the other hand it did the Lib Dems no favours for Nick Clegg to debate the EU with Nigel Farage at the European elections.
Are you sure? I think it's a perfectly viable argument to suggest that that debate helped the Liberal Democrats to hold onto the one last seat that they kept but might otherwise have lost without that debate? We'll never know, of course.
O/t FPT I was reading the comments last night re the decimalisation discussion and how within the UK there was a sort of mix between imperial and metric. I was quite surprised given this is a betting site that no one seemed to mention the obvious one
Horses as far as I am aware are still sold in Guineas and measured in hands. Prize money in some cases is also Guineas. Not sure if there is a continental or metric equivalent for the hands ....or perhaps there is? At 21 shillings it would be two pounds 10p for a Guinea I think and whatever that is in Euro?
Isn't a Guinea £1 and one shilling. There were 20 shillings in a pound as far as I remember, which meant there were 240 pennies in a pound. My first pocket money was threepence, raised to sixpence just before decimalisation. That turned into 2.5p.
I nearly said the one pound and one shilling. Had to think but you may well be right.
I was going on he premise that 10p was a shilling. It's so long since I thought about it I must be fully metricated now.
No, 5 pence was a shilling, or one bob as everyone used to call it. Still did a long time into decimalisation. You never hear it now though.
Haha the comments about The Open from those who would probably keep the wives off the course are very amusing. Brits can be very funny sometimes.
It's the British Open to most of the world whatever the old codgers at the R&A like to think. Just be thankful that we can still refer to a language called 'English' not 'American.' It's quite gracious of them, all things considered.
Right that's enough from me. I don't usually cross the troll bridge.
Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.
"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.
It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.
There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.
To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...
I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.
Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.
Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.
Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.
Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.
Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.
What happens next, then? Like the retired and those who choose not to work, the Establishment - Remain and Leave - will feel very few negative effects of Brexit, if any. They are innocultaed. Those who will end up suffering if it all goes pear-shaped are the same people that always do: ordinary punters and their families. Let's hope that the leave Establishment has called this right.
You need to explain how people in the UK will suffer if we stop shovelling £billions abroad every year
Because those billions put us in the single market. This reduces the cost of doing business in Europe, drives exports, creates jobs and delivers significant tax income for the government.
That is an opinion, not a fact, we are net contributors to the EU, it directly costs us money, what we get in return in arbitrary and out of our control.
We need to regain control, not piss in the wind hoping they'll be nice to us.
"IN supporting Cabinet Ministers admit that Leave have had a good week. But they argue that they won’t be able to ride the immigration issue to victory on June 23rd. One argues that you can’t focus on immigration week after week, or ‘By week four, you end up sounding like Nigel Farage’.
Well of course they can focus on immigration week after week. What's a bit of hyperbolic scare-mongering when the freedom of the country is at stake?
btw, am on the train, listening to a dim-witted woman wittering on behind me, who is so confused she is not going to vote (although she did acknowledge that Europe was trying to federalise, same as in 1940).
That dim witted woman on the train is probably your average man on the Clapham omnibus.
I think it's quite smart by Leave assuming Trump is disciplined and on message (and I think he can be).
He turns up in London. Cameron kind of has to meet him, or look like a jerk. (They could met in Scotland as well). So Cameron is tied down for half a day in a strongly Remain area, but one where he doesn't appeal to the voters.
The TV pictures the night before the vote are of Cameron and Trump, which is unlikely to make left wing Remain voters inclined to to out and vote got that nice Mr Cameron (unless he is rude about Trump to his face which diplomacy makes difficult).
All Trump has to do is day nothing controversial (and nothing about the vote). Something like "I'm not going to interfere, it's up to the Brits. But I will say that Britain is a great nation with a proud history. I and millions of my fellow Americans value the close friendship between our two countries and that isn't going to change regardless of what you decide tomorrow"
You could potentially massively reassure nervous voters on the trade issue at a point when it is too late for Remain to do anything about it.
Just needs Trump to be disciplined...
Trump has already said he backs Brexit and he has been endorsed by Farage, saw a man in the supermarket yesterday with 'Vote Leave' and 'Trump 2016' badges on either side of his cap
O/t FPT I was reading the comments last night re the decimalisation discussion and how within the UK there was a sort of mix between imperial and metric. I was quite surprised given this is a betting site that no one seemed to mention the obvious one
Horses as far as I am aware are still sold in Guineas and measured in hands. Prize money in some cases is also Guineas. Not sure if there is a continental or metric equivalent for the hands ....or perhaps there is? At 21 shillings it would be two pounds 10p for a Guinea I think and whatever that is in Euro?
Isn't a Guinea £1 and one shilling. There were 20 shillings in a pound as far as I remember, which meant there were 240 pennies in a pound. My first pocket money was threepence, raised to sixpence just before decimalisation. That turned into 2.5p.
I nearly said the one pound and one shilling. Had to think but you may well be right.
I was going on he premise that 10p was a shilling. It's so long since I thought about it I must be fully metricated now.
No, 5 pence was a shilling, or one bob as everyone used to call it. Still did a long time into decimalisation. You never hear it now though.
Ah yes I recollect now thanks. Oh for the days when you could get a tanners worth of chips or if really down threepence worth of batter scratchlings.
"IN supporting Cabinet Ministers admit that Leave have had a good week. But they argue that they won’t be able to ride the immigration issue to victory on June 23rd. One argues that you can’t focus on immigration week after week, or ‘By week four, you end up sounding like Nigel Farage’.
Well of course they can focus on immigration week after week. What's a bit of hyperbolic scare-mongering when the freedom of the country is at stake?
btw, am on the train, listening to a dim-witted woman wittering on behind me, who is so confused she is not going to vote (although she did acknowledge that Europe was trying to federalise, same as in 1940).
That dim witted woman on the train is probably your average man on the Clapham omnibus.
Absolutely.
And it is her, and his choice. Good luck to them all.
I have no issue with the public deciding for themselves. Just interesting to me that despite the criticism it received, something resonated, I'm sure not just with dimwits, about the Nazi/EU association.
Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.
"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.
It's the vote they are placing in the ballot box.
There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.
To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...
I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.
Watching a bit thrown.
Ian Dunt as Remainish.
Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.
Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.
Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.
What happens next, then? Like the retired and those who choose not to work, the Establishment - Remain and Leave - will feel very few negative effects of Brexit, if any. They are innocultaed. Those who will end up suffering if it all goes pear-shaped are the same people that always do: ordinary punters and their families. Let's hope that the leave Establishment has called this right.
You need to explain how people in the UK will suffer if we stop shovelling £billions abroad every year
Because those billions put us in the single market. This reduces the cost of doing business in Europe, drives exports, creates jobs and delivers significant tax income for the government.
That is an opinion, not a fact, we are net contributors to the EU, it directly costs us money, what we get in return in arbitrary and out of our control.
We need to regain control, not piss in the wind hoping they'll be nice to us.
Yes, it is opinion. Opinion based on experience, but opinion nevertheless. That's why I say we have to hope that the Leave establishment is right and my side of the argument is wrong. But whatever happens, the establishment in both camps, the well-off, the retired and those who choose not to work essentially have a consequence free vote. The people who will get it in the eye if things go tits up after Brexit are ordinary working punters.
I think it's quite smart by Leave assuming Trump is disciplined and on message (and I think he can be).
He turns up in London. Cameron kind of has to meet him, or look like a jerk. (They could met in Scotland as well). So Cameron is tied down for half a day in a strongly Remain area, but one where he doesn't appeal to the voters.
The TV pictures the night before the vote are of Cameron and Trump, which is unlikely to make left wing Remain voters inclined to to out and vote got that nice Mr Cameron (unless he is rude about Trump to his face which diplomacy makes difficult).
All Trump has to do is day nothing controversial (and nothing about the vote). Something like "I'm not going to interfere, it's up to the Brits. But I will say that Britain is a great nation with a proud history. I and millions of my fellow Americans value the close friendship between our two countries and that isn't going to change regardless of what you decide tomorrow"
You could potentially massively reassure nervous voters on the trade issue at a point when it is too late for Remain to do anything about it.
Just needs Trump to be disciplined...
Trump is due to come the day after the referendum day so too late to change voting.
Isn't a Guinea £1 and one shilling. There were 20 shillings in a pound as far as I remember, which meant there were 240 pennies in a pound. My first pocket money was threepence, raised to sixpence just before decimalisation. That turned into 2.5p.
My parents didn't give my brother and I any pocket money when we were kids in the 1980s. Instead they bought us a few chickens, which we looked after, and we sold the eggs back to our parents for 6p each. That was 2p per egg to me, 2p per egg to my brother and the other 2p into the pot to pay for the chicken food.
I think it's quite smart by Leave assuming Trump is disciplined and on message (and I think he can be).
He turns up in London. Cameron kind of has to meet him, or look like a jerk. (They could met in Scotland as well). So Cameron is tied down for half a day in a strongly Remain area, but one where he doesn't appeal to the voters.
The TV pictures the night before the vote are of Cameron and Trump, which is unlikely to make left wing Remain voters inclined to to out and vote got that nice Mr Cameron (unless he is rude about Trump to his face which diplomacy makes difficult).
All Trump has to do is day nothing controversial (and nothing about the vote). Something like "I'm not going to interfere, it's up to the Brits. But I will say that Britain is a great nation with a proud history. I and millions of my fellow Americans value the close friendship between our two countries and that isn't going to change regardless of what you decide tomorrow"
You could potentially massively reassure nervous voters on the trade issue at a point when it is too late for Remain to do anything about it.
Just needs Trump to be disciplined...
Trump has already said he backs Brexit and he has been endorsed by Farage
I'm sure that many if not most of the people appalled at whatever Trump says or does, and who might be therefore likely Remainers, will be students who haven't registered to vote.
Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.
"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.
It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.
There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.
To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...
I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.
Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.
Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.
Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.
Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.
Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.
What happens next, then? Like the retired and those who choose not to work, the Establishment - Remain and Leave - will feel very few negative effects of Brexit, if any. They are innocultaed. Those who will end up suffering if it all goes pear-shaped are the same people that always do: ordinary punters and their families. Let's hope that the leave Establishment has called this right.
You need to explain how people in the UK will suffer if we stop shovelling £billions abroad every year
Because those billions put us in the single market. This reduces the cost of doing business in Europe, drives exports, creates jobs and delivers significant tax income for the government.
That is an opinion, not a fact, we are net contributors to the EU, it directly costs us money, what we get in return in arbitrary and out of our control.
We need to regain control, not piss in the wind hoping they'll be nice to us.
Isn't a Guinea £1 and one shilling. There were 20 shillings in a pound as far as I remember, which meant there were 240 pennies in a pound. My first pocket money was threepence, raised to sixpence just before decimalisation. That turned into 2.5p.
My parents didn't give my brother and I any pocket money when we were kids in the 1980s. Instead they bought us a few chickens, which we looked after, and we sold the eggs back to our parents for 6p each. That was 2p per egg to me, 2p per egg to my brother and the other 2p into the pot to pay for the chicken food.
Haha the comments about The Open from those who would probably keep the wives off the course are very amusing. Brits can be very funny sometimes.
It's the British Open to most of the world whatever the old codgers at the R&A like to think. Just be thankful that we can still refer to a language called 'English' not 'American.' It's quite gracious of them, all things considered.
Right that's enough from me. I don't usually cross the troll bridge.
It's the English Premier League to most of the world. And they're wrong about that too.
I think it's quite smart by Leave assuming Trump is disciplined and on message (and I think he can be).
He turns up in London. Cameron kind of has to meet him, or look like a jerk. (They could met in Scotland as well). So Cameron is tied down for half a day in a strongly Remain area, but one where he doesn't appeal to the voters.
The TV pictures the night before the vote are of Cameron and Trump, which is unlikely to make left wing Remain voters inclined to to out and vote got that nice Mr Cameron (unless he is rude about Trump to his face which diplomacy makes difficult).
All Trump has to do is day nothing controversial (and nothing about the vote). Something like "I'm not going to interfere, it's up to the Brits. But I will say that Britain is a great nation with a proud history. I and millions of my fellow Americans value the close friendship between our two countries and that isn't going to change regardless of what you decide tomorrow"
You could potentially massively reassure nervous voters on the trade issue at a point when it is too late for Remain to do anything about it.
Just needs Trump to be disciplined...
I confess to tweeting him saying Don't. It's our vote, stay out of it. I don't expect my 140 characters to have any impact, but I tried
Isn't a Guinea £1 and one shilling. There were 20 shillings in a pound as far as I remember, which meant there were 240 pennies in a pound. My first pocket money was threepence, raised to sixpence just before decimalisation. That turned into 2.5p.
On the other hand it did the Lib Dems no favours for Nick Clegg to debate the EU with Nigel Farage at the European elections.
Are you sure? I think it's a perfectly viable argument to suggest that that debate helped the Liberal Democrats to hold onto the one last seat that they kept but might otherwise have lost without that debate? We'll never know, of course.
Sheffield Hallam may have to be rerun if Guido is to be believed.
Haha the comments about The Open from those who would probably keep the wives off the course are very amusing. Brits can be very funny sometimes.
It's the British Open to most of the world whatever the old codgers at the R&A like to think. Just be thankful that we can still refer to a language called 'English' not 'American.' It's quite gracious of them, all things considered.
Right that's enough from me. I don't usually cross the troll bridge.
It's the English Premier League to most of the world. And they're wrong about that too.
Then there's hockey and hockey, which of course are different things in London, Ontario and London, EU.
Meaning that GDP is now approximately 3.3% lower than Osborne predicted it would be.
Note also that growth in GDP per capita is approximately 0.8% lower each year than basic GDP growth.
I'm fairly certain that makes Osborne's running of the economy worse than the Treasury's own forecast for the the effects of Brexit. Which does amply demonstrate two things, 1) forecasts are crap in the short term never mind the long term, and 2) in the grand scheme of things the effects of Brexit are not that significant. A half-decent Chancellor could make more of a difference to the economy in the long term, and finding a great Chancellor and government is far more important than anything the EU can do for us.
Isn't a Guinea £1 and one shilling. There were 20 shillings in a pound as far as I remember, which meant there were 240 pennies in a pound. My first pocket money was threepence, raised to sixpence just before decimalisation. That turned into 2.5p.
My parents didn't give my brother and I any pocket money when we were kids in the 1980s. Instead they bought us a few chickens, which we looked after, and we sold the eggs back to our parents for 6p each. That was 2p per egg to me, 2p per egg to my brother and the other 2p into the pot to pay for the chicken food.
What an interesting idea. Commerce and capitalism at a young age
I think it's quite smart by Leave assuming Trump is disciplined and on message (and I think he can be).
He turns up in London. Cameron kind of has to meet him, or look like a jerk. (They could met in Scotland as well). So Cameron is tied down for half a day in a strongly Remain area, but one where he doesn't appeal to the voters.
The TV pictures the night before the vote are of Cameron and Trump, which is unlikely to make left wing Remain voters inclined to to out and vote got that nice Mr Cameron (unless he is rude about Trump to his face which diplomacy makes difficult).
All Trump has to do is day nothing controversial (and nothing about the vote). Something like "I'm not going to interfere, it's up to the Brits. But I will say that Britain is a great nation with a proud history. I and millions of my fellow Americans value the close friendship between our two countries and that isn't going to change regardless of what you decide tomorrow"
You could potentially massively reassure nervous voters on the trade issue at a point when it is too late for Remain to do anything about it.
Just needs Trump to be disciplined...
Trump has already said he backs Brexit and he has been endorsed by Farage
I'm sure that many if not most of the people appalled at whatever Trump says or does, and who might be therefore likely Remainers, will be students who haven't registered to vote.
A majority of students did not vote at the general election either but the polls are clear that most British voters are not keen on Trump, if it was Hillary v Trump over here Hillary would win a landslide winning Labour, LD and Tory voters, only UKIP voters would probably back Trump
On the other hand it did the Lib Dems no favours for Nick Clegg to debate the EU with Nigel Farage at the European elections.
Are you sure? I think it's a perfectly viable argument to suggest that that debate helped the Liberal Democrats to hold onto the one last seat that they kept but might otherwise have lost without that debate? We'll never know, of course.
Sheffield Hallam may have to be rerun if Guido is to be believed.
He may be partisan with an agenda, but I confess it looks very dodgy. More than the general bus stuff.
Haha the comments about The Open from those who would probably keep the wives off the course are very amusing. Brits can be very funny sometimes.
It's the British Open to most of the world whatever the old codgers at the R&A like to think. Just be thankful that we can still refer to a language called 'English' not 'American.' It's quite gracious of them, all things considered.
Right that's enough from me. I don't usually cross the troll bridge.
Ah yes.
Britain and America - two countries separated by a common language.
I am constantly surprised at Michael Gove talking about VAT reductions, tons more money for the NHS etc when he is a member of a Government that increased VAT and has effectively restricted spending by the NHS.
It seems a tad hypocritical!
Incidentally, I’ve just been on a senior citizens web forum where the only comments about the EU are for Remain.
Maybe he dosent - but Labour did want to abolish vat on fuel but the EU would not let them. We are not voting for gove in thus referendum we are voting so that whoever we vote for in 2020 can aboliah VAT on fuel if that is whst the electorate desire.
Did they? With that environmental fanatic Ed Miliband at Environment? They kept it well hidden if they did.
The government put it up when they were in opposition and they affected to oppose it, and want to bring it back down.
But Labour has reduced VAT in the past. In his July 1974 mini -Budget Denis Healey cut the rate from 10% to 8% - a level at which it remained until Howe raised it to 15% in June 1979.
Haha the comments about The Open from those who would probably keep the wives off the course are very amusing. Brits can be very funny sometimes.
It's the British Open to most of the world whatever the old codgers at the R&A like to think. Just be thankful that we can still refer to a language called 'English' not 'American.' It's quite gracious of them, all things considered.
Right that's enough from me. I don't usually cross the troll bridge.
"IN supporting Cabinet Ministers admit that Leave have had a good week. But they argue that they won’t be able to ride the immigration issue to victory on June 23rd. One argues that you can’t focus on immigration week after week, or ‘By week four, you end up sounding like Nigel Farage’.
I think Remain are missing the point - deliberately. And the more Remainers say it's the wrong thing to focus on, the more I'm inclined to think it actually is.
Immigration isn't as Remainers like to portray it Get The Darkies Out, it's about pressure on house prices, rents, maternity services, school places, our culture, jobs and prospects and on and on and on.
I've no problem whatsoever with importing smart articulate people from anywhere on the globe if that helps our nation to succeed. I object strongly to opportunist whatevers who don't raise the bar.
Haha the comments about The Open from those who would probably keep the wives off the course are very amusing. Brits can be very funny sometimes.
It's the British Open to most of the world whatever the old codgers at the R&A like to think. Just be thankful that we can still refer to a language called 'English' not 'American.' It's quite gracious of them, all things considered.
Right that's enough from me. I don't usually cross the troll bridge.
A little grace, humility and ability to adapt to a fast-changing world isn't a bad thing. I grant you there are some quaint old customs worth retaining but pomposity and delusions of grandeur aren't among them.
Cough..World Series..cough
You mean the one the 30 best baseball clubs in the world compete for?
And the one for which only US teams can compete. There are delusions of grandeur and then there's US self importance..
I am constantly surprised at Michael Gove talking about VAT reductions, tons more money for the NHS etc when he is a member of a Government that increased VAT and has effectively restricted spending by the NHS.
It seems a tad hypocritical!
Incidentally, I’ve just been on a senior citizens web forum where the only comments about the EU are for Remain.
Maybe he dosent - but Labour did want to abolish vat on fuel but the EU would not let them. We are not voting for gove in thus referendum we are voting so that whoever we vote for in 2020 can aboliah VAT on fuel if that is whst the electorate desire.
Did they? With that environmental fanatic Ed Miliband at Environment? They kept it well hidden if they did.
The government put it up when they were in opposition and they affected to oppose it, and want to bring it back down.
But Labour has reduced VAT in the past. In his July 1974 mini -Budget Denis Healey cut the rate from 10% to 8% - a level at which it remained until Howe raised it to 15% in June 1979.
That was when 365 economists wrote to the Times to say that Chancellor Howe was running the country into the ground with his austerity programme.
Haha the comments about The Open from those who would probably keep the wives off the course are very amusing. Brits can be very funny sometimes.
It's the British Open to most of the world whatever the old codgers at the R&A like to think. Just be thankful that we can still refer to a language called 'English' not 'American.' It's quite gracious of them, all things considered.
Right that's enough from me. I don't usually cross the troll bridge.
There is the British Masters of course
And we have not the British Queen but THE Queen.
In the British media, to the Dutch, the Swedes, the Spanish, the Jordanians etc who have their own Queen she is the Queen of the United Kingdom or the Queen of England
I am constantly surprised at Michael Gove talking about VAT reductions, tons more money for the NHS etc when he is a member of a Government that increased VAT and has effectively restricted spending by the NHS.
It seems a tad hypocritical!
Incidentally, I’ve just been on a senior citizens web forum where the only comments about the EU are for Remain.
Maybe he dosent - but Labour did want to abolish vat on fuel but the EU would not let them. We are not voting for gove in thus referendum we are voting so that whoever we vote for in 2020 can aboliah VAT on fuel if that is whst the electorate desire.
Did they? With that environmental fanatic Ed Miliband at Environment? They kept it well hidden if they did.
The government put it up when they were in opposition and they affected to oppose it, and want to bring it back down.
But Labour has reduced VAT in the past. In his July 1974 mini -Budget Denis Healey cut the rate from 10% to 8% - a level at which it remained until Howe raised it to 15% in June 1979.
That was when 365 economists wrote to the Times to say that Chancellor Howe was running the country into the ground with his austerity programme.
I had a brief conversation about the referendum at my workplace for the first time. It was my colleague that brought up the subject. He asked me if I was In or Out. I told him I was In. He told me he was undecided. We agreed that both campaigns have been terrible and that we'd both, largely, stopped following the national debate and were only taking our own instincts into consideration now.
I did wonder if that was behind Gove's point yesterday - "Don't trust me or XYZ, trust yourself and what your heart tells you".
I've seen a lot of bods saying their heart said Out, but their heads said Don't Know Yet.
I think it's quite smart by Leave assuming Trump is disciplined and on message (and I think he can be).
He turns up in London. Cameron kind of has to meet him, or look like a jerk. (They could met in Scotland as well). So Cameron is tied down for half a day in a strongly Remain area, but one where he doesn't appeal to the voters.
The TV pictures the night before the vote are of Cameron and Trump, which is unlikely to make left wing Remain voters inclined to to out and vote got that nice Mr Cameron (unless he is rude about Trump to his face which diplomacy makes difficult).
All Trump has to do is day nothing controversial (and nothing about the vote). Something like "I'm not going to interfere, it's up to the Brits. But I will say that Britain is a great nation with a proud history. I and millions of my fellow Americans value the close friendship between our two countries and that isn't going to change regardless of what you decide tomorrow"
You could potentially massively reassure nervous voters on the trade issue at a point when it is too late for Remain to do anything about it.
Just needs Trump to be disciplined...
Trump is due to come the day after the referendum day so too late to change voting.
I've just completed my postal vote . Had to restrain the force that I used to put my cross in the leave box so I didn't tear the paper.
When you commit suicide , make sure you press the trigger of the revolver harder .
Naught but REMAIN scaremongering!
Lemmings jumping off the EU cliff shouting "We Are Free We Are Free" on the way down to the rocks below .
James Bond did that....and then pulled the ripcord and a massive parachute in the form of the Union flag appeared.
Please do not underestimate the spirit of the British and the fact that if we do jump of a cliff we are already shackled to a dead corpse which will only make the arrival at said rocks, that much quicker.
On the other hand it did the Lib Dems no favours for Nick Clegg to debate the EU with Nigel Farage at the European elections.
Are you sure? I think it's a perfectly viable argument to suggest that that debate helped the Liberal Democrats to hold onto the one last seat that they kept but might otherwise have lost without that debate? We'll never know, of course.
Sheffield Hallam may have to be rerun if Guido is to be believed.
He may be partisan with an agenda, but I confess it looks very dodgy. More than the general bus stuff.
The Electoral Commission will be found to have been unfit for purpose and so all party breaches of election spending in 2015 will have to be allowed.
O/t FPT I was reading the comments last night re the decimalisation discussion and how within the UK there was a sort of mix between imperial and metric. I was quite surprised given this is a betting site that no one seemed to mention the obvious one
Horses as far as I am aware are still sold in Guineas and measured in hands. Prize money in some cases is also Guineas. Not sure if there is a continental or metric equivalent for the hands ....or perhaps there is? At 21 shillings it would be two pounds 10p for a Guinea I think and whatever that is in Euro?
Isn't a Guinea £1 and one shilling. There were 20 shillings in a pound as far as I remember, which meant there were 240 pennies in a pound. My first pocket money was threepence, raised to sixpence just before decimalisation. That turned into 2.5p.
I nearly said the one pound and one shilling. Had to think but you may well be right.
Ah yes 2.5p I was going on he premise that 10p was a shilling. It's so long since I thought about it I must be fully metricated now. Or is that indoctrinated?
I remember decimalisation. And kept finding loads of old giant 2ps for years afterwards. Youngsters won't get the *toffee penny* name.
The thing to remember about Jezza is that he is genuinely not very bright. In fact, off the top of my head I can't think of another leader of one of the major parties who has ever been thicker. Only IDS comes remotely close. Jezza does not know what he is doing. Literally. A while back SeanT, I think, likened him to Chauncey Gardener. That is entirely accurate.
I've been mulling over recent party leaders and I would tend to agree. Possibly Lansbury might be a rival, but there can't be many alive who remember him.
Indeed, Corbyn resembles Lansbury in several ways; both old, both stupid, both incompetent, both elected following a devastating defeat where most other possible leaders lost their seats, both beloved by the members, both hated by the PLP.
But will Corbyn resemble him in the one way that would really help Labour - by not fighting a general election?
PS, after seeing that video of Juncker, I'm seriously considering voting leave for the first time. There is something really, seriously, deeply wrong with an organisation that promotes and protects such a charlatan (and I'm thinking of his tax policies too).
One coincidence with Corbyn resembling Lansbury is that Cameron is not a million miles from the Tory leader of the time too. Osborne as Chamberlain isn't that bad a bad fit either - though Osborne is a good deal more concerned with PR and popular politics.
Ref the EU and Juncker, it's hardly unique in that. The Lib Dems covered up Kennedy's problems. Labour has promoted Corbyn to the leadership and the Tories did likewise with IDS.
It is a bit OTT to compare Labour's 1931 electoral rout with what happened in 2015. There is a huge difference between a parliamentary party reduced to just 46 MPs -as in 1931 - and 232 . Moreover, in 2015 Labour did make small net gains from the Tories and more substantial gains from the LibDems. As for the choice of a new leader , unlike 1931 Labour potentially had a wide range to choose from had the candidates made themselves available - though the membership decided to go for Corbyn.
O/t FPT I was reading the comments last night re the decimalisation discussion and how within the UK there was a sort of mix between imperial and metric. I was quite surprised given this is a betting site that no one seemed to mention the obvious one
Horses as far as I am aware are still sold in Guineas and measured in hands. Prize money in some cases is also Guineas. Not sure if there is a continental or metric equivalent for the hands ....or perhaps there is? At 21 shillings it would be two pounds 10p for a Guinea I think and whatever that is in Euro?
Isn't a Guinea £1 and one shilling. There were 20 shillings in a pound as far as I remember, which meant there were 240 pennies in a pound. My first pocket money was threepence, raised to sixpence just before decimalisation. That turned into 2.5p.
I nearly said the one pound and one shilling. Had to think but you may well be right.
Ah yes 2.5p I was going on he premise that 10p was a shilling. It's so long since I thought about it I must be fully metricated now. Or is that indoctrinated?
I remember decimalisation. And kept finding loads of old giant 2ps for years afterwards. Youngsters won't get the *toffee penny* name.
I loved threepenny bits.
A bob was 10p, hence 9 bob note as a forgery.
A bag of crisps cost sixpence (2.5p). I remember that well. Must have eaten a lot of them...
What an interesting idea. Commerce and capitalism at a young age
I grew up on a farm so, of course, we had the space to do such things. I wasn't entirely without pocket money though as my grandparents gave me 20p each Friday.
Isn't a Guinea £1 and one shilling. There were 20 shillings in a pound as far as I remember, which meant there were 240 pennies in a pound. My first pocket money was threepence, raised to sixpence just before decimalisation. That turned into 2.5p.
My parents didn't give my brother and I any pocket money when we were kids in the 1980s. Instead they bought us a few chickens, which we looked after, and we sold the eggs back to our parents for 6p each. That was 2p per egg to me, 2p per egg to my brother and the other 2p into the pot to pay for the chicken food.
What an interesting idea. Commerce and capitalism at a young age
I didn't get any either - but 50p to wash my dad's car when I was at primary school. My BFF was Canadian and she had to do *chores* for pocket money. It was a revelation and really impressed me.
A thought on this day marked by the news on Muhammed Ali. Is the Vote Leave strategy a Rope-a-Dope strategy? For the first 15 weeks they lean on the ropes and duck and dive all of the REMAIN attacks and once these are spent, then LEAVE mount a counter attack against a tired REMAIN campaign.
I think it's quite smart by Leave assuming Trump is disciplined and on message (and I think he can be).
He turns up in London. Cameron kind of has to meet him, or look like a jerk. (They could met in Scotland as well). So Cameron is tied down for half a day in a strongly Remain area, but one where he doesn't appeal to the voters.
The TV pictures the night before the vote are of Cameron and Trump, which is unlikely to make left wing Remain voters inclined to to out and vote got that nice Mr Cameron (unless he is rude about Trump to his face which diplomacy makes difficult).
All Trump has to do is day nothing controversial (and nothing about the vote). Something like "I'm not going to interfere, it's up to the Brits. But I will say that Britain is a great nation with a proud history. I and millions of my fellow Americans value the close friendship between our two countries and that isn't going to change regardless of what you decide tomorrow"
You could potentially massively reassure nervous voters on the trade issue at a point when it is too late for Remain to do anything about it.
Just needs Trump to be disciplined...
Trump is due to come the day after the referendum day so too late to change voting.
He's rescheduled it to the day before.
Hmmm. This is curious. What is he up to. How close is he to the Kremlin?
A little grace, humility and ability to adapt to a fast-changing world isn't a bad thing. I grant you there are some quaint old customs worth retaining but pomposity and delusions of grandeur aren't among them.
Cough..World Series..cough
You mean the one the 30 best baseball clubs in the world compete for?
And the one for which only US teams can compete. There are delusions of grandeur and then there's US self importance..
And Canadian. And if there was a chance of a team outside those countries being competitive. ..
O/t FPT I was reading the comments last night re the decimalisation discussion and how within the UK there was a sort of mix between imperial and metric. I was quite surprised given this is a betting site that no one seemed to mention the obvious one
Horses as far as I am aware are still sold in Guineas and measured in hands. Prize money in some cases is also Guineas. Not sure if there is a continental or metric equivalent for the hands ....or perhaps there is? At 21 shillings it would be two pounds 10p for a Guinea I think and whatever that is in Euro?
Isn't a Guinea £1 and one shilling. There were 20 shillings in a pound as far as I remember, which meant there were 240 pennies in a pound. My first pocket money was threepence, raised to sixpence just before decimalisation. That turned into 2.5p.
I nearly said the one pound and one shilling. Had to think but you may well be right.
Ah yes 2.5p I was going on he premise that 10p was a shilling. It's so long since I thought about it I must be fully metricated now. Or is that indoctrinated?
I loved threepenny bits.
Is it wise to use that phrase with TSE on this board? ;-)
O/t FPT I was reading the comments last night re the decimalisation discussion and how within the UK there was a sort of mix between imperial and metric. I was quite surprised given this is a betting site that no one seemed to mention the obvious one
Horses as far as I am aware are still sold in Guineas and measured in hands. Prize money in some cases is also Guineas. Not sure if there is a continental or metric equivalent for the hands ....or perhaps there is? At 21 shillings it would be two pounds 10p for a Guinea I think and whatever that is in Euro?
Isn't a Guinea £1 and one shilling. There were 20 shillings in a pound as far as I remember, which meant there were 240 pennies in a pound. My first pocket money was threepence, raised to sixpence just before decimalisation. That turned into 2.5p.
I nearly said the one pound and one shilling. Had to think but you may well be right.
Ah yes 2.5p I was going on he premise that 10p was a shilling. It's so long since I thought about it I must be fully metricated now. Or is that indoctrinated?
I remember decimalisation. And kept finding loads of old giant 2ps for years afterwards. Youngsters won't get the *toffee penny* name.
I loved threepenny bits.
A bob was 10p, hence 9 bob note as a forgery.
A bob was a shilling or 5p in the new money. There was a 10 shilling (or 10 bob) note, hence 9 bob note ... It was replaced by the 50p piece or 10 bob bit as people used to call it.
Haha the comments about The Open from those who would probably keep the wives off the course are very amusing. Brits can be very funny sometimes.
It's the British Open to most of the world whatever the old codgers at the R&A like to think. Just be thankful that we can still refer to a language called 'English' not 'American.' It's quite gracious of them, all things considered.
Right that's enough from me. I don't usually cross the troll bridge.
There is the British Masters of course
And we have not the British Queen but THE Queen.
In the British media, to the Dutch, the Swedes, the Spanish, the Jordanians etc who have their own Queen she is the Queen of the United Kingdom or the Queen of England
To Americans and others globally who don't have a monarch there is no doubt who The Queen is.
I think it's quite smart by Leave assuming Trump is disciplined and on message (and I think he can be).
He turns up in London. Cameron kind of has to meet him, or look like a jerk. (They could met in Scotland as well). So Cameron is tied down for half a day in a strongly Remain area, but one where he doesn't appeal to the voters.
The TV pictures the night before the vote are of Cameron and Trump, which is unlikely to make left wing Remain voters inclined to to out and vote got that nice Mr Cameron (unless he is rude about Trump to his face which diplomacy makes difficult).
All Trump has to do is day nothing controversial (and nothing about the vote). Something like "I'm not going to interfere, it's up to the Brits. But I will say that Britain is a great nation with a proud history. I and millions of my fellow Americans value the close friendship between our two countries and that isn't going to change regardless of what you decide tomorrow"
You could potentially massively reassure nervous voters on the trade issue at a point when it is too late for Remain to do anything about it.
Just needs Trump to be disciplined...
Trump is due to come the day after the referendum day so too late to change voting.
He's rescheduled it to the day before.
I'd be very interested in your views as a keen nationalist on Brexit parallels. I don't mean about what it means for Scotland - but the visceral nature of the sentiments both seem to share.
whatever happens, the establishment in both camps, the well-off, the retired and those who choose not to work essentially have a consequence free vote. The people who will get it in the eye if things go tits up after Brexit are ordinary working punters.
Isn't this the case with every decision with wide welfare implications? Therefore, doesn't this apply to every vote we have in this country, rendering it rather redundant as a special plea?
And furthermore isn't it the case that the only alternative to putting these folks in the firing line is to refuse to countenance any radical change which probably implies a slow decline resulting in lower incomes (relative to elsewhere), hitting the poorest hardest (given the diminishing marginal utility of income).
"IN supporting Cabinet Ministers admit that Leave have had a good week. But they argue that they won’t be able to ride the immigration issue to victory on June 23rd. One argues that you can’t focus on immigration week after week, or ‘By week four, you end up sounding like Nigel Farage’.
I think Remain are missing the point - deliberately. And the more Remainers say it's the wrong thing to focus on, the more I'm inclined to think it actually is.
Immigration isn't as Remainers like to portray it Get The Darkies Out, it's about pressure on house prices, rents, maternity services, school places, our culture, jobs and prospects and on and on and on.
I've no problem whatsoever with importing smart articulate people from anywhere on the globe if that helps our nation to succeed. I object strongly to opportunist whatevers who don't raise the bar.
People are constantly reminded about immigration whether politicians like it or not.
Its the 'foreign languages in the supermarket' effect.
"IN supporting Cabinet Ministers admit that Leave have had a good week. But they argue that they won’t be able to ride the immigration issue to victory on June 23rd. One argues that you can’t focus on immigration week after week, or ‘By week four, you end up sounding like Nigel Farage’.
I think Remain are missing the point - deliberately. And the more Remainers say it's the wrong thing to focus on, the more I'm inclined to think it actually is. Immigration isn't as Remainers like to portray it Get The Darkies Out, it's about pressure on house prices, rents, maternity services, school places, our culture, jobs and prospects and on and on and on. I've no problem whatsoever with importing smart articulate people from anywhere on the globe if that helps our nation to succeed. I object strongly to opportunist whatevers who don't raise the bar.
The other point is that REMAIN believe a strategy of 19 weeks on the economy (stupid) will engage voters and think that 4 weeks on immigration is going to switch off voters.
Alistair Campbell on Newsnight said that REMAIN should stick to one strategy to win. I guess he must by now have learned from the elvis impersonator stunt at GE2010?
Tell you what can we stop all the "anecdotes" on the EU referendum.
"I've been on this forum and they are all for remain" and "I've not bumped into anyone down the club that isn't for leaving" etc etc etc... Ad infinitum.
It's all bollocks because the posters doing it are entrenched in their positions of leave and remain so let's just presume that leave / remain posters always bump into someone or participate in a group that wholly and entirely validates the vote they are placing in the ballot box.
There are one or two exceptions to those posters of course but to be fair the other anecdotes are just glib and crass and boring.
To be honest Mr Moses, the anecdotes are more interesting that the poll ramblings...
I agree - though the reports from some are less credible than others.
Watching the paper review on Sky earlier, a chappy who seemed a soft Remainer said he's spent the week in the NE and many he'd talked to were for Leave - inc lots of old friends, he seemed genuinely surprised and a bit thrown.
Ian Dunt whom I expected to be for Remain, left me with the impression he was a soft Leave. I was astonished to hear Lionel Barber of FT fame describe himself a bit self-consciously as Remainish.
Who knows what the Hell is going on. I don't.
Actually you do know what's going on but you're so delighted you're struggling to believe it.
Us, we, the people of the UK are very close to giving an enormous middle finger to the Establishment. Bring it on and enjoy it, this is just the start.
A life of penury but it's gotta be worth it!
penury: extreme poverty.
What a fuckin idiot you are
The authentic voice of a Faragista. Have we got a lot to look forward to.
A thought on this day marked by the news on Muhammed Ali. Is the Vote Leave strategy a Rope-a-Dope strategy? For the first 15 weeks they lean on the ropes and duck and dive all of the REMAIN attacks and once these are spent, then LEAVE mount a counter attack against a tired REMAIN campaign.
Interesting concept but with postal votes out that could be risky couldn't it?
A thought on this day marked by the news on Muhammed Ali. Is the Vote Leave strategy a Rope-a-Dope strategy? For the first 15 weeks they lean on the ropes and duck and dive all of the REMAIN attacks and once these are spent, then LEAVE mount a counter attack against a tired REMAIN campaign.
O/t FPT I was reading the comments last night re the decimalisation discussion and how within the UK there was a sort of mix between imperial and metric. I was quite surprised given this is a betting site that no one seemed to mention the obvious one
Horses as far as I am aware are still sold in Guineas and measured in hands. Prize money in some cases is also Guineas. Not sure if there is a continental or metric equivalent for the hands ....or perhaps there is? At 21 shillings it would be two pounds 10p for a Guinea I think and whatever that is in Euro?
Isn't a Guinea £1 and one shilling. There were 20 shillings in a pound as far as I remember, which meant there were 240 pennies in a pound. My first pocket money was threepence, raised to sixpence just before decimalisation. That turned into 2.5p.
I nearly said the one pound and one shilling. Had to think but you may well be right.
Ah yes 2.5p I was going on he premise that 10p was a shilling. It's so long since I thought about it I must be fully metricated now. Or is that indoctrinated?
I remember decimalisation. And kept finding loads of old giant 2ps for years afterwards. Youngsters won't get the *toffee penny* name.
I loved threepenny bits.
A bob was 10p, hence 9 bob note as a forgery.
A bag of crisps cost sixpence (2.5p). I remember that well. Must have eaten a lot of them...
3 for 1d sweeties like Sports Mixtures or Black Jacks. 2 1/2p Tudor crisps and 7p Creme Eggs.
It must seem so foreign to Millenials. I only use metric for very small things - nths of inches is far too messy. Imperial is much better for almost everything else. I use thumbs, hands and cubits for rough estimate stuff today - so easy and readily available.
Comments
So in year two you have the effects of the year two stimulus plus part of the year one stimulus.
In year three you have the effects of the year three stimulus plus part of the year two stimulus plus a smaller part of the year one stimulus etc.
It's the same with stamps. GB and NI stamps were the first ever issued, so the UK does not have to put the country on the face of the stamp.
Sun Politics ✔ @SunPolitics
Self-proclaimed ‘romantic’ David Cameron didn’t get Sam a present for their 20th anniversary http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/7192739/-David-Cameron-did-not-get-wife-Sam-a-present-for-their-20th-wedding-anniversary.html …
I can't believe it could be true. It's like hoping to be asked out by your crush - even if he does, I'll still be Are You Sure? Me? Really?
I think it's quite smart by Leave assuming Trump is disciplined and on message (and I think he can be).
He turns up in London. Cameron kind of has to meet him, or look like a jerk. (They could met in Scotland as well). So Cameron is tied down for half a day in a strongly Remain area, but one where he doesn't appeal to the voters.
The TV pictures the night before the vote are of Cameron and Trump, which is unlikely to make left wing Remain voters inclined to to out and vote got that nice Mr Cameron (unless he is rude about Trump to his face which diplomacy makes difficult).
All Trump has to do is day nothing controversial (and nothing about the vote). Something like "I'm not going to interfere, it's up to the Brits. But I will say that Britain is a great nation with a proud history. I and millions of my fellow Americans value the close friendship between our two countries and that isn't going to change regardless of what you decide tomorrow"
You could potentially massively reassure nervous voters on the trade issue at a point when it is too late for Remain to do anything about it.
Just needs Trump to be disciplined...
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/could-the-vote-leave-strategy-work/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
For your information I was criticizing the Brown's economic record on this site whilst Osborne was promising to match Labour's spending plans and to 'share the proceeds of growth'.
And I was the person who pointed out that Darling had increased his borrowing predictions by over half a trillion pounds between his 2008 and 2009 Budgets.
Unlike many people on PB I do not change my views of government policies depending upon the colour of the rosette the government wears.
The unfortunate fact is that Osborne has borrowed £180bn (and growing) more than he said he would - enjoy paying back your share of that.
Dragging out the cuts is also politically more difficult because people don't see why we can't carry on kicking the can up the road as we have in previous years.
'Can honestly say I've not seen Tim Farron or any other LD MP on the TV. Not once. And given I see a disproportionate % of rolling news, that's quite a feat.'
None of the fringe parties has been on TV.
btw, am on the train, listening to a dim-witted woman wittering on behind me, who is so confused she is not going to vote (although she did acknowledge that Europe was trying to federalise, same as in 1940).
FPT
I was reading the comments last night re the decimalisation discussion and how within the UK there was a sort of mix between imperial and metric. I was quite surprised given this is a betting site that no one seemed to mention the obvious one
Horses as far as I am aware are still sold in Guineas and measured in hands. Prize money in some cases is also Guineas. Not sure if there is a continental or metric equivalent for the hands ....or perhaps there is? At 21 shillings it would be two pounds 10p for a Guinea I think and whatever that is in Euro?
Both Labour and the LDs have elements supporting LEAVE but it seems to be barely mentioned.
I did note Tim Farron visiting Sherborne where the Conservatives lost a Dorset County Council seat on Thursday so he's doing something useful.
What a fuckin idiot you are
This, of course, is the choice of the media not the Lib Dems.
On the other hand it did the Lib Dems no favours for Nick Clegg to debate the EU with Nigel Farage at the European elections.
I had a brief conversation about the referendum at my workplace for the first time. It was my colleague that brought up the subject. He asked me if I was In or Out. I told him I was In. He told me he was undecided. We agreed that both campaigns have been terrible and that we'd both, largely, stopped following the national debate and were only taking our own instincts into consideration now.
We were lucky to get a clip round the ear and a crust of bread.
Ah yes 2.5p
I was going on he premise that 10p was a shilling. It's so long since I thought about it I must be fully metricated now. Or is that indoctrinated?
It's the British Open to most of the world whatever the old codgers at the R&A like to think. Just be thankful that we can still refer to a language called 'English' not 'American.' It's quite gracious of them, all things considered.
Right that's enough from me. I don't usually cross the troll bridge.
We need to regain control, not piss in the wind hoping they'll be nice to us.
That dim witted woman on the train is probably your average man on the Clapham omnibus.
In newspaper. !!!
And it is her, and his choice. Good luck to them all.
I have no issue with the public deciding for themselves. Just interesting to me that despite the criticism it received, something resonated, I'm sure not just with dimwits, about the Nazi/EU association.
https://www.facebook.com/peoplesincampaign/
(I'll get me coat...)
Britain and America - two countries separated by a common language.
Immigration isn't as Remainers like to portray it Get The Darkies Out, it's about pressure on house prices, rents, maternity services, school places, our culture, jobs and prospects and on and on and on.
I've no problem whatsoever with importing smart articulate people from anywhere on the globe if that helps our nation to succeed. I object strongly to opportunist whatevers who don't raise the bar.
365 economist proved to be wrong and Howe right.
364
/pedant
I've seen a lot of bods saying their heart said Out, but their heads said Don't Know Yet.
The Electoral Commission will be found to have been unfit for purpose and so all party breaches of election spending in 2015 will have to be allowed.
I loved threepenny bits.
A bob was 10p, hence 9 bob note as a forgery.
A thread header would be fascinating.
And furthermore isn't it the case that the only alternative to putting these folks in the firing line is to refuse to countenance any radical change which probably implies a slow decline resulting in lower incomes (relative to elsewhere), hitting the poorest hardest (given the diminishing marginal utility of income).
Its the 'foreign languages in the supermarket' effect.
Alistair Campbell on Newsnight said that REMAIN should stick to one strategy to win. I guess he must by now have learned from the elvis impersonator stunt at GE2010?
It must seem so foreign to Millenials. I only use metric for very small things - nths of inches is far too messy. Imperial is much better for almost everything else. I use thumbs, hands and cubits for rough estimate stuff today - so easy and readily available.