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  • MikeK
    MikeK Posts: 9,053
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    DavidL said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    That table explains why the Mail, Express and the Sun are taking the line that they do and why they are unlikely to be the difference. Their readers are overwhelmingly anti-EU, so they are following, not leading. And because they are largely preaching to the converted, they aren't changing many votes.

    And the Guardian?

    Edit, on reflection their main task is to provide lines to take for the BBC. But the same principle applies.
    I just don't know how the BBC gets away with it, to be honest.

    It's outrageous.
    Tonight's BBC R4 6 oclock news had at 12 mins in the infamous Roger Harrabin with a full blooded endorsement of the EU as wonderful....
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07cmjxq
    I just listened. I'm astonished at how one-sided it was!

    I think I'll complain.
    Yes Harrabin acted as a spokesman for the EU. Remarkable and depressing how the BBC let this happen.
    Depressing yes. Remarkable no.
  • AnneJGP
    AnneJGP Posts: 3,743
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Omnium said:

    Norm said:

    Rexel56 said:

    tyson said:

    I really do not believe anyone who comes on this site and post, however infrequently, is remotely undecided about how they'll vote in June.

    This site is no place for undecides, especially those who create a username and post.


    Omnium said:

    Danny565 said:

    I'm still undecided about what turnout is going to be like.

    ANECDOTE ALERT, but in my (reasonably politically-interested) circle, there's quite a lot of awareness now that the Referendum is happening, and a belief that it's a really important decision, but equally a lot of total bafflement about what a lot of the statistics and arguments mean, and how it's seemingly impossible to work out who to believe.

    Turnout will be big-ish. I've backed the BF 65-70 band, which is GE territory.

    The truth of the matter, I think, is that there is very little to choose between Remain and Leave in terms of actual impact within the timeframe we can foresee. If the EU goes wrong then leaving will have been the smart thing, but on the other hand if we as a nation repeat the last 100 years of 'wise decisions' then Brexit will be bad.

    The principal worrying thing about this referendum is that not a single politician (so far as I can tell) has managed to avoid spouting nonsense. They're all trying to polarise the question whereas in fact this is a grey issue.

    (My vote is currently undecided)
    Well, excuse me, but I am undecided. Attracted by the simplicity that an independent nation represents, sovereignty granted by the people to a directly elected parliament; repelled by the anti-immigrant nastiness of many advocating Leave, however hard they try to hide that nastiness behind seemingly reasonable 'points systems' and ironic shouts of "racist" against themselves.
    Perfectly reasonable to be undecided. Even I a confirmed leaver occasionally have pangs of uneasiness. The latest being from Laura K's excellent little prog the other night as to the problems Brexit might cause for Airbus UK.
    Laura K is really good. The first political journalist I've really liked since John Cole.



    My son in law works for Airbus and according to leave they are part of the elite and represent big business. That may be so but many many thousands of small business in the supply chain and the communities depend on their success and would be seriously effected by any rethink of the wing supply by Airbus in France who may want to relocate to Germany and Spain if the UK's exits
    What do the contracts concerned have to say about rethinking the wing supply?

    (Good evening, everyone)
  • DavidL
    DavidL Posts: 55,867
    dr_spyn said:

    Electoral Commision on that latest foul up. No real details of which areas, which councils, which contractor.

    http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/journalist/electoral-commission-media-centre/news-releases-referendums/electoral-commission-statement-on-non-eligible-eu-citizen-voters

    @DavidL I too felt as if I was a predator at Austin Reeds, picking over the remains.

    I did wonder about the all or nothing attempt by the Administrators to sell it off was over ambitious.

    I agree. The problem is though that old High Street leases are a liability not an asset with rents trending downwards quite strongly. Getting new leases after the liquidation is probably more attractive.
  • tlg86
    tlg86 Posts: 26,950
    TOPPING said:

    Hmm. Dave saying that these are extraordinary times and that EU immigration will therefore tail off as the EU recovers.

    Weak to middling at best.

    As Southam Observer has said on a number of times he is reaping what he has sown.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,722
    Harrabin ....Harrabin ...Harrabin ...that name rings a bell..oh yes Climate-gate.
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    Dave pulling the irregular verb here:

    I make good suggestions about immigration
    You are being foolish.
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    OVER 40%. Blimey.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,722
    I have a horrible feeling this England line-up isn't going to be far from how Uncle Roy is going to squeeze Kane, Vardy, Alli and Rooney into the same team.
  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    Cameron looking nervous. Faisal trying to be Andrew Neil.
  • MonikerDiCanio
    MonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    NickPalmer said:

    Steven_Whaley said:

    Jonathan said:

    Thanks for posting that table. We really are a divided nation on this. One half of the population is not going to be happy.

    The scariest numbers in that table are the age group figures. Regardless of which way the result goes; age is surely the worst possible fault line for our society to divide along. :(

    Hello everyone. This is my first return visit to the site since I bowed out in March. I'm not sure if I'm staying - I'll gauge the atmosphere. Hope everyone is well. :)

    Welcome back! The atmosphere is a bit febrile and peevish at times, but it's mostly blue on blue, as Tory Remainers discover how nasty the press is and Tory Leavers discover that Cameron doesn't play fair - it's fun to watch. :) We genuine Europhiles remain a small minority here, but are tolerated as endangered species, like aardvaarks.
    Since your two favourite countries are Norway and Switzerland, both happily outside the EU, it's hard to credit the genuineness and sincerity of your professed Europhilia. I find you slightly less trustworthy than Cameron on this question.
  • NickPalmer
    NickPalmer Posts: 21,724
    Casino_Royale said:



    Nah, no way. I don't do sacking demands. Not the sort of chap I am. She's also good at her job.

    Besides which, and I really don't know why she does this to me, but I find her really smoking.

    (If I'm still allowed to say that without the sexism police getting on my back)

    You think of her as anti-social and a cause of premature death? Really, you lefties do get carried away.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,722
    tlg86 said:

    Faisal Islam looking totally out of his depth.

    Can't be worse than Derbyshire surely?
  • TOPPING
    TOPPING Posts: 44,060
    tlg86 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Hmm. Dave saying that these are extraordinary times and that EU immigration will therefore tail off as the EU recovers.

    Weak to middling at best.

    As Southam Observer has said on a number of times he is reaping what he has sown.
    Perhaps.

    He is finally pivoting onto the broader point of what we lose in order to gain control over immigration. It won't of course work with those for whom immigration is the key issue. But for broader, undecideds (!), it is his only tactic.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    Casino_Royale said:

    Cameron looking nervous. Faisal trying to be Andrew Neil.

    Andrew Neil is definitely bitter about never being able to interview the big names. Can't blame him, it'd be a great sight!
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    edited June 2016
    TOPPING said:

    Hmm. Dave saying that these are extraordinary times and that EU immigration will therefore tail off as the EU recovers.

    Weak to middling at best.

    With such ringing endorsements from Dave and Jezza today, is it any wonder that "Leave" may well just do it ?
  • tlg86
    tlg86 Posts: 26,950
    Mortimer said:

    OVER 40%. Blimey.

    I'm confused. Is he arguing it's that high and therefore the changes he got in the deal will have some affect on the numbers? If it's that high it suggests to me that the immigrants are actually here for the benefits which runs counter to the general perception.
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    edited June 2016
    Good grief, I'm convinced no-one in the Remain camp understands how tariffs work. Not even our own Prime Minister. The sooner he is replaced the better.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,722
    edited June 2016
    Given it is a lovely evening in half term I wonder how many people are paying any attention to anything EU referendum? Oh and the footy is on...
  • TOPPING
    TOPPING Posts: 44,060
    RobD said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Cameron looking nervous. Faisal trying to be Andrew Neil.

    Andrew Neil is definitely bitter about never being able to interview the big names. Can't blame him, it'd be a great sight!
    Islam is asking all the right questions.

    Neil, who I think is excellent, woudn't I suspect, have any more success.

    Dave knows that immigration is the critical issue and I'm sure has wargamed the interviews and his responses, to death.
  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    Dave talking about his renegotiation for the first time since Feb.

    Interesting.
  • tlg86
    tlg86 Posts: 26,950
    edited June 2016
    The car industry. A good interviewer would have up their sleave the EU money given to Turkey to relocate that Ford factory from Eastleigh.
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    Riiiiight.

    Sovereignty isn't sovereign.

    That is going to wash isn't it....
  • Omnium
    Omnium Posts: 11,763
    NickPalmer said:

    Steven_Whaley said:

    NickPalmer said:



    Welcome back! The atmosphere is a bit febrile and peevish at times, but it's mostly blue on blue, as Tory Remainers discover how nasty the press is and Tory Leavers discover that Cameron doesn't play fair - it's fun to watch. :) We genuine Europhiles remain a small minority here, but are tolerated as endangered species, like aardvaarks.

    Oooh, I didn't know there were any aardvaarks posting here! :)

    Seriously though, thanks Nick. I'm glad to see that you're still here fighting your corner.

    I have to say that I'm actually starting to warm to Jeremy Corbyn. As someone who has never voted Labour that's quite an interesting development. I've been hugely impressed by his contribution to the EU debate today - he's making a lot of the arguments that I wish the Remain campaign as a whole would make more time for.

    Meanwhile the antics of both sides of the Conservative civil war make me despair - and, remember, I've voted Conservative at every GE.

    For the first time in my life I feel closer to Labour than to the Conservatives!!! :O Make of that what you will...

    Jeremy is genuine and interested in discussing what needs to be done rather than personalities and scare stories. I'd like him for those qualities (in the same way that I like Letwin) even if I disliked his policies.
    NP

    You're not entirely on-record as having agreed with Corbyn historically are you? At least in some respects you seem to be a new convert to Corbynism. The question must be - what held you back in the past?



  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    tlg86 said:

    Mortimer said:

    OVER 40%. Blimey.

    I'm confused. Is he arguing it's that high and therefore the changes he got in the deal will have some affect on the numbers? If it's that high it suggests to me that the immigrants are actually here for the benefits which runs counter to the general perception.
    I think you're right - and it should be JUMPED ON by Leave.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    tlg86 said:

    Mortimer said:

    OVER 40%. Blimey.

    I'm confused. Is he arguing it's that high and therefore the changes he got in the deal will have some affect on the numbers? If it's that high it suggests to me that the immigrants are actually here for the benefits which runs counter to the general perception.
    I'm not actually watching the debate at the moment, to what does 40% refer?
  • TOPPING
    TOPPING Posts: 44,060
    Casino_Royale said:

    Dave talking about his renegotiation for the first time since Feb.

    Interesting.

    the accepted wisdom was that the deal was hopeless. However, as, ahem I have been saying, what it did achieve in its way was important.

    Of course the immigration clause was the weakest (along with competitiveness), but it did achieve a significant change in our relationship with the EU. IMO.
  • Hertsmere_Pubgoer
    Hertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    NickPalmer said:

    Casino_Royale said:



    Nah, no way. I don't do sacking demands. Not the sort of chap I am. She's also good at her job.

    Besides which, and I really don't know why she does this to me, but I find her really smoking.

    (If I'm still allowed to say that without the sexism police getting on my back)

    You think of her as anti-social and a cause of premature death? Really, you lefties do get carried away.
    Or she raises lots of tax and keeps the pension bill down?
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    Rasmussen
    Clinton 39 Trump 38

    'Following a damaging report from the State Department’s inspector general, 65% of all voters consider it likely that Clinton broke the law by sending and receiving e-mails containing classified information through a private e-mail server while serving as secretary of State. Still, 71% of Democrats say Clinton should continue campaigning even if indicted and stay in the race until a court determines her guilt or innocence.'
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/white_house_watch
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    edited June 2016
    DC will simply not win on sovereignty or immigration. The more angry he gets and keeps chuntering about them, the better for Leave.
  • tlg86
    tlg86 Posts: 26,950
    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Mortimer said:

    OVER 40%. Blimey.

    I'm confused. Is he arguing it's that high and therefore the changes he got in the deal will have some affect on the numbers? If it's that high it suggests to me that the immigrants are actually here for the benefits which runs counter to the general perception.
    I'm not actually watching the debate at the moment, to what does 40% refer?
    I think the PM claimed that 40% of immigrants claim tax credits and that his renegotiation means that they won't be able to get all of these for four years. But Islam suggested that it was 1 in 8.
  • TOPPING
    TOPPING Posts: 44,060
    Mortimer said:

    DC will simply not win on sovereignty or immigration. The more angry he gets and keeps chuntering about them, the better for Leave.

    It is the PM saying that the UK is better off if we stayed in. He will appeal to all of those (none on PB, I suspect) who are affected by a UK PM saying that.
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Mortimer said:

    OVER 40%. Blimey.

    I'm confused. Is he arguing it's that high and therefore the changes he got in the deal will have some affect on the numbers? If it's that high it suggests to me that the immigrants are actually here for the benefits which runs counter to the general perception.
    I'm not actually watching the debate at the moment, to what does 40% refer?
    DC was asked how many EU immigrants claim in work benefits. He seemed to respond 40%. Which sounds about right (well, it sounds effing awful - but chimes true).
  • Tim_B
    Tim_B Posts: 7,669
    Amazon today announced the location of the first ever studio recording of the new Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond & James May Amazon Prime show The Grand Tour.

    The show's first ever studio recording will be filmed in Johannesburg 17th July 2016 and Amazon is giving fans the opportunity to win one of three pairs of tickets, travel and accommodation to be part of the recording.

    To enter for a chance to win, entrants should share, via Twitter, a photo or video of the most unusual place they've ever put up a tent, using the hashtag #TheGrandTourJoburg.

    For full T&Cs go to amazon.co.uk/Joburg
  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    TOPPING said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Dave talking about his renegotiation for the first time since Feb.

    Interesting.

    the accepted wisdom was that the deal was hopeless. However, as, ahem I have been saying, what it did achieve in its way was important.

    Of course the immigration clause was the weakest (along with competitiveness), but it did achieve a significant change in our relationship with the EU. IMO.
    I think it amounts to diddly squat, but the interesting thing here is Cameron is attempting to make a positive case to vote *for* Remain rather than just rely on Fear.
  • TOPPING
    TOPPING Posts: 44,060
    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Mortimer said:

    OVER 40%. Blimey.

    I'm confused. Is he arguing it's that high and therefore the changes he got in the deal will have some affect on the numbers? If it's that high it suggests to me that the immigrants are actually here for the benefits which runs counter to the general perception.
    I'm not actually watching the debate at the moment, to what does 40% refer?
    DC was asked how many EU immigrants claim in work benefits. He seemed to respond 40%. Which sounds about right (well, it sounds effing awful - but chimes true).
    An argument against in work benefits more than an argument against immigration.
  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    TOPPING said:

    RobD said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Cameron looking nervous. Faisal trying to be Andrew Neil.

    Andrew Neil is definitely bitter about never being able to interview the big names. Can't blame him, it'd be a great sight!
    Islam is asking all the right questions.

    Neil, who I think is excellent, woudn't I suspect, have any more success.

    Dave knows that immigration is the critical issue and I'm sure has wargamed the interviews and his responses, to death.
    I think Neil could pick Cameron apart. Faisal is unable to stop him dominating the interview.
  • tlg86
    tlg86 Posts: 26,950
    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Mortimer said:

    OVER 40%. Blimey.

    I'm confused. Is he arguing it's that high and therefore the changes he got in the deal will have some affect on the numbers? If it's that high it suggests to me that the immigrants are actually here for the benefits which runs counter to the general perception.
    I'm not actually watching the debate at the moment, to what does 40% refer?
    DC was asked how many EU immigrants claim in work benefits. He seemed to respond 40%. Which sounds about right (well, it sounds effing awful - but chimes true).
    And we're through the looking glass. That it's that high is appalling, but he's turning it to his advantage to suggest that his renegotiation will have an affect on immigration.
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    DC doing better here, getting on to more comfortable ground.

    But I'm not sure that his 'trust us on the economy' works as well after 6 years and the deficit is still yawning.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,722
    Tim_B said:

    Amazon today announced the location of the first ever studio recording of the new Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond & James May Amazon Prime show The Grand Tour.

    The show's first ever studio recording will be filmed in Johannesburg 17th July 2016 and Amazon is giving fans the opportunity to win one of three pairs of tickets, travel and accommodation to be part of the recording.

    To enter for a chance to win, entrants should share, via Twitter, a photo or video of the most unusual place they've ever put up a tent, using the hashtag #TheGrandTourJoburg.

    For full T&Cs go to amazon.co.uk/Joburg

    They certainly making sure they spend ALL Amazon's money....
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    TOPPING said:

    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Mortimer said:

    OVER 40%. Blimey.

    I'm confused. Is he arguing it's that high and therefore the changes he got in the deal will have some affect on the numbers? If it's that high it suggests to me that the immigrants are actually here for the benefits which runs counter to the general perception.
    I'm not actually watching the debate at the moment, to what does 40% refer?
    DC was asked how many EU immigrants claim in work benefits. He seemed to respond 40%. Which sounds about right (well, it sounds effing awful - but chimes true).
    An argument against in work benefits more than an argument against immigration.
    Not a fan of helping the British poor, no?
  • LadyBucket
    LadyBucket Posts: 590
    Audience looking bored already. Both PM and Faisal struggling. I'm not sure about Andrew Neil. I'm tired of his macho style of interviewing. I think the media/broadcasters need a new approach, it's getting very stale.
  • Steven_Whaley
    Steven_Whaley Posts: 313
    TOPPING said:

    @Steven_Whaley

    good evening. Don't remember you previously but then I am a relative newcomer. Welcome back regardless.

    Thank you, TOPPING. I've been here pretty much right from the start - but I've never been hugely prolific. :D

  • DavidL
    DavidL Posts: 55,867
    NickPalmer said:

    Steven_Whaley said:

    Jonathan said:

    Thanks for posting that table. We really are a divided nation on this. One half of the population is not going to be happy.

    The scariest numbers in that table are the age group figures. Regardless of which way the result goes; age is surely the worst possible fault line for our society to divide along. :(

    Hello everyone. This is my first return visit to the site since I bowed out in March. I'm not sure if I'm staying - I'll gauge the atmosphere. Hope everyone is well. :)

    Welcome back! The atmosphere is a bit febrile and peevish at times, but it's mostly blue on blue, as Tory Remainers discover how nasty the press is and Tory Leavers discover that Cameron doesn't play fair - it's fun to watch. :) We genuine Europhiles remain a small minority here, but are tolerated as endangered species, like aardvaarks.
    When I was in Singapore in the 60s Lee Kwan Yew's version of democracy was that he allowed one or two members of the opposition to be elected. He discovered that Parliament was more effective when you had someone to shout at.

    I agree remainers are serving a similar function.
  • tlg86
    tlg86 Posts: 26,950
    edited June 2016
    Islam is dreadful. He should be asking why a weaker pound is a bad thing.
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    Good on Faisal trashing DC for trashing the £.
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    tlg86 said:

    Islam is dreadful. He should be saying why a weaker pound is a bad thing.

    When you have a huge trade deficit, a weaker pound is a good thing.
  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    First hit by Faisal on WW3.
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Mortimer said:

    Good grief, I'm convinced no-one in the Remain camp understands how tariffs work. Not even our own Prime Minister. The sooner he is replaced the better.

    Cameron trying steamroller Faisal - he seems rather argumentative and overtly emphatic, like he's trying to convince himself

    HAHHAAHHAH - big laugh from audience about WW3
  • Danny565
    Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Yikes, Dave getting spanked.
  • TOPPING
    TOPPING Posts: 44,060
    Mortimer said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Mortimer said:

    OVER 40%. Blimey.

    I'm confused. Is he arguing it's that high and therefore the changes he got in the deal will have some affect on the numbers? If it's that high it suggests to me that the immigrants are actually here for the benefits which runs counter to the general perception.
    I'm not actually watching the debate at the moment, to what does 40% refer?
    DC was asked how many EU immigrants claim in work benefits. He seemed to respond 40%. Which sounds about right (well, it sounds effing awful - but chimes true).
    An argument against in work benefits more than an argument against immigration.
    Not a fan of helping the British poor, no?
    Huge fan of helping the British poor. Employment is at a 45 year high, unemployment around a 30 year low.

    If you are talking about British jobs for British people I'm not necessarily a fan.
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    And good on him for calling out the Project Fear too. Disgraceful from a British PM.
  • Steven_Whaley
    Steven_Whaley Posts: 313
    NickPalmer said:



    Jeremy is genuine and interested in discussing what needs to be done rather than personalities and scare stories. I'd like him for those qualities (in the same way that I like Letwin) even if I disliked his policies.

    I get a similar vibe from watching or listening to Jeremy Corbyn as I always got/get from watching or listening to John Major. That might be part of why he's impressing me too. :)

  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    Faisal totally unable to stop Cameron delivering well rehearsed soundbites, attack lines and rebuttals.
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    He's called Faisal *glib* 4x in 5 mins and of being a Brexiteer!!!
  • Danny565
    Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    It seems Corbyn doesn't have a monopoly on blaming the journalist for bias when things aren't going the way they want to.

    That's like the 4th time he's accused Faisal of being "glib".
  • tlg86
    tlg86 Posts: 26,950
    This is getting me angry. Countries that used to fight each other? No, one country has had a habit of marching into its neighbours and we had to come to the rescue.
  • welshowl
    welshowl Posts: 4,464
    Blimey this is a bit feisty !
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    TOPPING said:

    Mortimer said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Mortimer said:

    OVER 40%. Blimey.

    I'm confused. Is he arguing it's that high and therefore the changes he got in the deal will have some affect on the numbers? If it's that high it suggests to me that the immigrants are actually here for the benefits which runs counter to the general perception.
    I'm not actually watching the debate at the moment, to what does 40% refer?
    DC was asked how many EU immigrants claim in work benefits. He seemed to respond 40%. Which sounds about right (well, it sounds effing awful - but chimes true).
    An argument against in work benefits more than an argument against immigration.
    Not a fan of helping the British poor, no?
    Huge fan of helping the British poor. Employment is at a 45 year high, unemployment around a 30 year low.

    If you are talking about British jobs for British people I'm not necessarily a fan.
    Because you prefer British jobs for European people?
  • TCPoliticalBetting
    TCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    Terrible challenge in "friendly" Portugal player sent off. Harry Kane could have lost an eye.
  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    I am hoping the audience does a better job than Islam.
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    Worried about losing. Good line Faisal.
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    Actually - Leave should hammer home the line about PM being worried. Shakes DC's authority to the core.
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    Difficult for DC but good last line.
  • tlg86
    tlg86 Posts: 26,950
    It will be interesting to compare Islam's performance tonight with that of tomorrow.
  • AnneJGP
    AnneJGP Posts: 3,743
    TOPPING said:

    Mortimer said:

    DC will simply not win on sovereignty or immigration. The more angry he gets and keeps chuntering about them, the better for Leave.

    It is the PM saying that the UK is better off if we stayed in. He will appeal to all of those (none on PB, I suspect) who are affected by a UK PM saying that.
    No disrespect towards anyone, but I have stopped believing anything any politically motivated person says.

    I'm going by gut instinct.
  • tlg86
    tlg86 Posts: 26,950
    On the in work benefits, I'd be more tempted to vote Remain if we could remove in work benefits from those who have already moved here.
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    Actually not sure that Faisal hectoring DC helped and probably turned people off. It needs to be more measured as it only adds to the confusion
  • TCPoliticalBetting
    TCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    The big area of danger for Dave is if members of the audience go after him for being too rich to understand the damage immigration is causing to the poorer in society.
  • FluffyThoughts
    FluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    tyson said:

    Rexel, comrade. You are not an undecide....even though you may think you are. There is no way you will put a cross in the Brexit box. Trust me.

    Rexel56 said:

    tyson said:

    I really do not believe anyone who comes on this site and post, however infrequently, is remotely undecided about how they'll vote in June.

    This site is no place for undecides, especially those who create a username and post.


    Omnium said:

    Danny565 said:

    I'm still undecided about what turnout is going to be like.

    ANECDOTE ALERT, but in my (reasonably politically-interested) circle, there's quite a lot of awareness now that the Referendum is happening, and a belief that it's a really important decision, but equally a lot of total bafflement about what a lot of the statistics and arguments mean, and how it's seemingly impossible to work out who to believe.

    Turnout will be big-ish. I've backed the BF 65-70 band, which is GE territory.

    The truth of the matter, I think, is that there is very little to choose between Remain and Leave in terms of actual impact within the timeframe we can foresee. If the EU goes wrong then leaving will have been the smart thing, but on the other hand if we as a nation repeat the last 100 years of 'wise decisions' then Brexit will be bad.

    The principal worrying thing about this referendum is that not a single politician (so far as I can tell) has managed to avoid spouting nonsense. They're all trying to polarise the question whereas in fact this is a grey issue.

    (My vote is currently undecided)
    Well, excuse me, but I am undecided. Attracted by the simplicity that an independent nation represents, sovereignty granted by the people to a directly elected parliament; repelled by the anti-immigrant nastiness of many advocating Leave, however hard they try to hide that nastiness behind seemingly reasonable 'points systems' and ironic shouts of "racist" against themselves.
    :tumbleweed:
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,722
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Terrible challenge in "friendly" Portugal player sent off. Harry Kane could have lost an eye.

    The game against Turkey was pretty tasty. I am surprised somebody like Wilshire didn't end up out injuried for another 9 months.
  • Tim_B
    Tim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited June 2016
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Tim_B said:

    Amazon today announced the location of the first ever studio recording of the new Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond & James May Amazon Prime show The Grand Tour.

    The show's first ever studio recording will be filmed in Johannesburg 17th July 2016 and Amazon is giving fans the opportunity to win one of three pairs of tickets, travel and accommodation to be part of the recording.

    To enter for a chance to win, entrants should share, via Twitter, a photo or video of the most unusual place they've ever put up a tent, using the hashtag #TheGrandTourJoburg.

    For full T&Cs go to amazon.co.uk/Joburg

    They certainly making sure they spend ALL Amazon's money....
    Amazon will be just fine - given the number of Prime subscriptions they've sold since the announcement, they have already made a boat load (boot load?) of money on the Grand Tour.

    Prime is a good value.
  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    Cameron: "We can keep our currency for as long as we like."

    Not 'forever' or 'for good'.

    Interesting.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,722
    edited June 2016
    Tim_B said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Tim_B said:

    Amazon today announced the location of the first ever studio recording of the new Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond & James May Amazon Prime show The Grand Tour.

    The show's first ever studio recording will be filmed in Johannesburg 17th July 2016 and Amazon is giving fans the opportunity to win one of three pairs of tickets, travel and accommodation to be part of the recording.

    To enter for a chance to win, entrants should share, via Twitter, a photo or video of the most unusual place they've ever put up a tent, using the hashtag #TheGrandTourJoburg.

    For full T&Cs go to amazon.co.uk/Joburg

    They certainly making sure they spend ALL Amazon's money....
    Amazon will be just fine - given the number of Prime subscriptions they've sold since the announcement, they have already made a boat load (boot load?) of money on the Grand Tour.
    I am sure they will...just pointing out that it seems like Jezza is making sure he is spending the maximum of his allowances on decent Rose and steak in as sunny climes as possible.
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Dave would join the EU again today. Hmm, not sure how convincing that is.
  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Actually not sure that Faisal hectoring DC helped and probably turned people off. It needs to be more measured as it only adds to the confusion

    "Yes, Mr. Cameron.", "No, of course not Mr. Cameron.", "No, after you, Sir."
  • Hertsmere_Pubgoer
    Hertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    AnneJGP said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mortimer said:

    DC will simply not win on sovereignty or immigration. The more angry he gets and keeps chuntering about them, the better for Leave.

    It is the PM saying that the UK is better off if we stayed in. He will appeal to all of those (none on PB, I suspect) who are affected by a UK PM saying that.
    No disrespect towards anyone, but I have stopped believing anything any politically motivated person says.

    I'm going by gut instinct.
    Wise move.
  • AnneJGP
    AnneJGP Posts: 3,743
    Casino_Royale said:

    TOPPING said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Dave talking about his renegotiation for the first time since Feb.

    Interesting.

    the accepted wisdom was that the deal was hopeless. However, as, ahem I have been saying, what it did achieve in its way was important.

    Of course the immigration clause was the weakest (along with competitiveness), but it did achieve a significant change in our relationship with the EU. IMO.
    I think it amounts to diddly squat, but the interesting thing here is Cameron is attempting to make a positive case to vote *for* Remain rather than just rely on Fear.
    What a pity he didn't think to try that before he threw his reputation down the drain.
  • tlg86
    tlg86 Posts: 26,950
    This is all a bit silly, but surely a majority Labour Government could repeal the referendum lock should they wish to?
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    Casino_Royale said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Actually not sure that Faisal hectoring DC helped and probably turned people off. It needs to be more measured as it only adds to the confusion

    "Yes, Mr. Cameron.", "No, of course not Mr. Cameron.", "No, after you, Sir."
    That is silly - needs forensic questioning as is happening now - much better
  • Moses_
    Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    BBC breaking

    The US House Speaker Paul Ryan says he will vote for the Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump in this year's election.
    Mr Ryan had previously criticised Mr Trump, but wrote in a newspaper column "we have more common ground than disagreement".
    He added he was "confident" that Mr Trump would be able to turn the Republican agenda into laws
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Sky totally losing the plot here. Cameron answering questions we can't hear. Kay allowing him to make mini speeches.
  • Omnium
    Omnium Posts: 11,763
    Casino_Royale said:

    Cameron: "We can keep our currency for as long as we like."

    Not 'forever' or 'for good'.

    Interesting.

    Can I nominate you for the PB 2016 spurious point award? I feel you've done all the groundwork, and it'll just be a matter of coasting home.
  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    tlg86 said:

    This is all a bit silly, but surely a majority Labour Government could repeal the referendum lock should they wish to?

    Didn't stop the European Arrest Warrant or various other justice opt-ins.

    The 'lock' is full of holes.
  • Tim_B
    Tim_B Posts: 7,669
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Tim_B said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Tim_B said:

    Amazon today announced the location of the first ever studio recording of the new Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond & James May Amazon Prime show The Grand Tour.

    The show's first ever studio recording will be filmed in Johannesburg 17th July 2016 and Amazon is giving fans the opportunity to win one of three pairs of tickets, travel and accommodation to be part of the recording.

    To enter for a chance to win, entrants should share, via Twitter, a photo or video of the most unusual place they've ever put up a tent, using the hashtag #TheGrandTourJoburg.

    For full T&Cs go to amazon.co.uk/Joburg

    They certainly making sure they spend ALL Amazon's money....
    Amazon will be just fine - given the number of Prime subscriptions they've sold since the announcement, they have already made a boat load (boot load?) of money on the Grand Tour.
    I am sure they will...just pointing out that it seems like Jezza is making sure he is spending the maximum of his allowances on decent Rose and steak in as sunny climes as possible.
    I do hope so - with Andy Willman at the helm, and Amazon's money, the production values should be excellent, and the show will at least meet expectations. Given the reception for 'new' Top Gear, I'm sure they are stretching every sinew to please their many fans.
  • tlg86
    tlg86 Posts: 26,950
    kay Burley is useless.
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    PlatoSaid said:

    Sky totally losing the plot here. Cameron answering questions we can't hear. Kay allowing him to make mini speeches.

    Only just realised this debate was on, if not even the politically interested are aware how many others will be watching it, especially on Sky News at the same time as an England international? Probably lucky for Cameron so far
  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    Moroccan background lady should get Faisal's job.
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Superb roasting from young lady there.
  • tlg86
    tlg86 Posts: 26,950
    PlatoSaid said:

    Superb roasting from young lady there.

    I disagree, she just looks stupid.
  • Hertsmere_Pubgoer
    Hertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    Casino_Royale said:

    Cameron: "We can keep our currency for as long as we like."

    Not 'forever' or 'for good'.

    Interesting.

    That reminds me of the gag "I've got enough money to live comfortably for the rest of my life, as long as I die by Monday"
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    "I know waffling when I see it" " You're not answering my question!"
  • welshowl
    welshowl Posts: 4,464
    PlatoSaid said:

    Superb roasting from young lady there.

    Nah she got shouty and I'm confused what she's asking about tbh.
  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    Omnium said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Cameron: "We can keep our currency for as long as we like."

    Not 'forever' or 'for good'.

    Interesting.

    Can I nominate you for the PB 2016 spurious point award? I feel you've done all the groundwork, and it'll just be a matter of coasting home.
    You can do what you like. I found his choice of words interesting.
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    Someone ask him if the UK still supports the Turkish application.

    Go on!
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,722
    In the way politicians have done Mumsnet, I think they should be "encouraged" to do PB...I am not sure they would get away with even 5% of the bollocks they get away with from the "expert" interviewers.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    welshowl said:

    Nah she got shouty and I'm confused what she's asking about tbh.

    It wasn't a question

    @DPJHodges: Here's the problem. We've now got audience members trying to audition for their @HuffPostUK piece.
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Mortimer said:

    Someone ask him if the UK still supports the Turkish application.

    Go on!

    "Turkey isn't joining anytime soon..."
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    welshowl said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Superb roasting from young lady there.

    Nah she got shouty and I'm confused what she's asking about tbh.
    She was a terrible distraction
  • Pong
    Pong Posts: 4,693
    edited June 2016
    Paul Ryan backs Trump.

    Kindof.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/06/02/paul-ryan-endorses-donald-trump/
  • DavidL
    DavidL Posts: 55,867
    Not seeing the debate or the football but it does sound as if England are getting into tournament mode early.

This discussion has been closed.

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