Incidentally, this debate is showing the danger that the referendum could become a chance to protest-vote against the government's many failings (as shown by the complaints about the NHS, tuition fees, etc.).
Yeah there was a whiff of that. Corbyn of course is supposed to shore up that flank with his friends but he seems less than active and enthused about that so far ( in fairness he's been away and the heavy work starts now - though I'm not holding any breath).
I voted out today.
HERO. Good man, BJO.
In fact the 4 Lab voters in Chez BJO all voted out today.
Incidentally, this debate is showing the danger that the referendum could become a chance to protest-vote against the government's many failings (as shown by the complaints about the NHS, tuition fees, etc.).
Yeah there was a whiff of that. Corbyn of course is supposed to shore up that flank with his friends but he seems less than active and enthused about that so far ( in fairness he's been away and the heavy work starts now - though I'm not holding any breath).
Hate to admit it, but Cameron is doing rather well in this audience section.
Oh he's good at this no doubt. In fairness he's holding his own in a pretty hostile environment. I think the audience is supposed to be balanced but the pro EU voices are pretty mute. Will be interesting to see how Gove's turn pans out tomorrow in comparison.
If the pro-EU voices are pretty mute, that's interesting in itself. Seems to mark a change in background atmosphere.
Maybe. Need tomorrow to compare.
Gove will get fewer "Why is your Government shit" questions maybe? He will get "Why are you a bastard that eats teachers' livers", one assumes.
Gove's problem is (and this isn't fair) how he looks and sounds, and his mannerisms, and the fact he is such a conviction politicians he takes every question and counterpoint as supporting his argument, which winds people up.
But there's no question he'll be able to deal with any question or challenge, and argue his case well.
Gove would do extremely well with people who are super-bright and like a ding-dong.
Sadly, the audience tomorrow, and the nation at large, ain't super bright.
Hate to admit it, but Cameron is doing rather well in this audience section.
Oh he's good at this no doubt. In fairness he's holding his own in a pretty hostile environment. I think the audience is supposed to be balanced but the pro EU voices are pretty mute. Will be interesting to see how Gove's turn pans out tomorrow in comparison.
If the pro-EU voices are pretty mute, that's interesting in itself. Seems to mark a change in background atmosphere.
Maybe. Need tomorrow to compare.
Gove will get fewer "Why is your Government shit" questions maybe? He will get "Why are you a bastard that eats teachers' livers", one assumes.
Incidentally, this debate is showing the danger that the referendum could become a chance to protest-vote against the government's many failings (as shown by the complaints about the NHS, tuition fees, etc.).
Yeah there was a whiff of that. Corbyn of course is supposed to shore up that flank with his friends but he seems less than active and enthused about that so far ( in fairness he's been away and the heavy work starts now - though I'm not holding any breath).
I voted out today.
HERO. Good man, BJO.
In fact the 4 Lab voters in Chez BJO all voted out today.
Jesus. I thought you were the only one in your house for out?
Incidentally, this debate is showing the danger that the referendum could become a chance to protest-vote against the government's many failings (as shown by the complaints about the NHS, tuition fees, etc.).
Yeah there was a whiff of that. Corbyn of course is supposed to shore up that flank with his friends but he seems less than active and enthused about that so far ( in fairness he's been away and the heavy work starts now - though I'm not holding any breath).
I voted out today.
HERO. Good man, BJO.
In fact the 4 Lab voters in Chez BJO all voted out today.
Jesus. I thought you were the only one in your house for out?
Good work, BJO!
I was TTIP arguement worked wonders. Anyway back next Month hopefully, lots of bad things still happening to Mrs BJ unfortunately certainly puts PB into perspective
Hate to admit it, but Cameron is doing rather well in this audience section.
Oh he's good at this no doubt. In fairness he's holding his own in a pretty hostile environment. I think the audience is supposed to be balanced but the pro EU voices are pretty mute. Will be interesting to see how Gove's turn pans out tomorrow in comparison.
If the pro-EU voices are pretty mute, that's interesting in itself. Seems to mark a change in background atmosphere.
Maybe. Need tomorrow to compare.
Gove will get fewer "Why is your Government shit" questions maybe? He will get "Why are you a bastard that eats teachers' livers", one assumes.
Because they go well with a nice Chianti?
I thought it was Amarone.
I think it's "a big Amarone" in the book, "a nice Chianti" in the film.
The very best salesman can sell very little if he's considered to be an apocalyptic scaremonger who wilfully exaggerates, shamlessly allies himself with whoever he's previously trashed to sell his products, and treats his customers like fools.
I always had you down as a Conservative and a Cameron fan, Mr Royale.
Hate to admit it, but Cameron is doing rather well in this audience section.
Oh he's good at this no doubt. In fairness he's holding his own in a pretty hostile environment. I think the audience is supposed to be balanced but the pro EU voices are pretty mute. Will be interesting to see how Gove's turn pans out tomorrow in comparison.
If the pro-EU voices are pretty mute, that's interesting in itself. Seems to mark a change in background atmosphere.
Maybe. Need tomorrow to compare.
Gove will get fewer "Why is your Government shit" questions maybe? He will get "Why are you a bastard that eats teachers' livers", one assumes.
Because they go well with a nice Chianti?
I thought it was Amarone.
You could be right. My cookbook is a little dated.
Hate to admit it, but Cameron is doing rather well in this audience section.
Oh he's good at this no doubt. In fairness he's holding his own in a pretty hostile environment. I think the audience is supposed to be balanced but the pro EU voices are pretty mute. Will be interesting to see how Gove's turn pans out tomorrow in comparison.
If the pro-EU voices are pretty mute, that's interesting in itself. Seems to mark a change in background atmosphere.
Maybe. Need tomorrow to compare.
Gove will get fewer "Why is your Government shit" questions maybe? He will get "Why are you a bastard that eats teachers' livers", one assumes.
Because they go well with a nice Chianti?
I thought it was Amarone.
I think it's "a big Amarone" in the book, "a nice Chianti" in the film.
Very sneaky of SKY to let that question in about Boris being PM. I'm now switching off, as I know SKY will be crowing about Faisal. Not one of the PM's best but just about okay.
It was tough but no real faux pas. I think Gove may be a bit more apprehensive if he gets the same grilling
Gove has the advantage of going second and will be much better prepared. He's also experienced enough to "slow things down" and will be incredibly polite, which always irritates the interviewer (especially John Humphries). This is where the PM falls down on the one-to-one because he allows himself to be rushed but then he usually pulls it back when faced with questions from the audience. I've never seen Gove take questions from an audience, so should be interesting.
We can't sell any beef and lamb to USA - best point so far by PM.
Many people will be surprised by that.
1) Very few Americans eat lamb
2) they have plenty of beef
3) If you have lived in the UK in the last 20 years or so you are not allowed to donate blood in the US due to CJD. This should take care of beef imports too.
So whether people are surprised or not, it's probably irrelevant.
I never understand why milk is so damn expensive in the US. Load of space for cows etc, but it is eye wateringly expensive...and don't get we started on cheese...jesus h christ.
Incidentally, this debate is showing the danger that the referendum could become a chance to protest-vote against the government's many failings (as shown by the complaints about the NHS, tuition fees, etc.).
Yeah there was a whiff of that. Corbyn of course is supposed to shore up that flank with his friends but he seems less than active and enthused about that so far ( in fairness he's been away and the heavy work starts now - though I'm not holding any breath).
I voted out today.
HERO. Good man, BJO.
In fact the 4 Lab voters in Chez BJO all voted out today.
Jesus. I thought you were the only one in your house for out?
Good work, BJO!
I was TTIP arguement worked wonders. Anyway back next Month hopefully, lots of bad things still happening to Mrs BJ unfortunately certainly puts PB into perspective
Well, excuse me, but I am undecided. Attracted by the simplicity that an independent nation represents, sovereignty granted by the people to a directly elected parliament; repelled by the anti-immigrant nastiness of many advocating Leave, however hard they try to hide that nastiness behind seemingly reasonable 'points systems' and ironic shouts of "racist" against themselves.
Mr. 56, please do be careful about people posting about large scale immigration, the process, which some may disagree with even quite vehemently, and the immigrants, the people, who some are quite content to treat as individuals, good and bad the same as individuals in any other group.
There are some on here who seem to deliberately confuse the two so that they can paint those who oppose the former as nasty people because they hate the latter when in fact such is not the case.
Wanting to be able to manage migration so that we attract the skilled and those who will be a positive benefit to the UK, regardless of where in the world they come from, whilst not accepting those who will be a drain on our society, has nothing to do with being nasty or being anti-immigrant.
-----------
There is, of course, nothing immoral about adopting a points-based immigration system. It would, however, have the following drawbacks:
1) Other EU countries are likely to do the same with regard to us. This means the would mean the end of free movement in the EU for UK citizens. Only the elite with sufficient money or skills will have the option of settling in EU countries; plebs are confined to the UK.
2) Bureaucracy and inefficiency. It's going to cost a lot more to have the state, rather than the free market, decide which skills are needed, and the state will invariably do a worse job than the free market.
3) The general principle of self-determination. Having governments decide whether people are permitted to live in particular places rather than allowing them to decide for themselves is a loss of freedom and a victory for stateism.
Edit: Trying to sort out the damn blockquotes is a nightmare on this forum!
Incidentally, this debate is showing the danger that the referendum could become a chance to protest-vote against the government's many failings (as shown by the complaints about the NHS, tuition fees, etc.).
Yeah there was a whiff of that. Corbyn of course is supposed to shore up that flank with his friends but he seems less than active and enthused about that so far ( in fairness he's been away and the heavy work starts now - though I'm not holding any breath).
I voted out today.
Fascinating. I have this hunch that this is swinging LEAVE's way, and it's not because of Tories or Kippers, it's because most lefties are singularly unconvinced, and will either abstain, or go OUT, like you.
I cannot see how it is possibly in the interest of a WWC Labour voter to say REMAIN. Because it isn't. They are just voting for endless unstoppable EU migration from ever poorer countries and ever more millions of people who want to do their job for less.
Who the holy Fuck would vote for THAT?
The Corbynite middle class Facebookers will go REMAIN, of course, but they are 5% of the population.
Another striking thing was the Guardian report, yesterday, on *ethnic minorities* being not quite as REMAINIAN as everyone assumed.
Almost a year ago today I was having a conversation with a Polish trucker in an Indian restaurant in Dorset. I was the most pro immigration person of the other diners and staff.
Incidentally, this debate is showing the danger that the referendum could become a chance to protest-vote against the government's many failings (as shown by the complaints about the NHS, tuition fees, etc.).
Yeah there was a whiff of that. Corbyn of course is supposed to shore up that flank with his friends but he seems less than active and enthused about that so far ( in fairness he's been away and the heavy work starts now - though I'm not holding any breath).
I voted out today.
HERO. Good man, BJO.
In fact the 4 Lab voters in Chez BJO all voted out today.
I must say, Mr. Owls, I am very surprised by your news. Perhaps, when taken in conjunction with the news about Mrs. Royale's decision this evening the result may not be as Mr. Dancer expected and others have been confidently predicting.
Still a long way to go, of course, but maybe grounds for hope.
Incidentally, this debate is showing the danger that the referendum could become a chance to protest-vote against the government's many failings (as shown by the complaints about the NHS, tuition fees, etc.).
Yeah there was a whiff of that. Corbyn of course is supposed to shore up that flank with his friends but he seems less than active and enthused about that so far ( in fairness he's been away and the heavy work starts now - though I'm not holding any breath).
I voted out today.
HERO. Good man, BJO.
In fact the 4 Lab voters in Chez BJO all voted out today.
Jesus. I thought you were the only one in your house for out?
Good work, BJO!
I was TTIP arguement worked wonders. Anyway back next Month hopefully, lots of bad things still happening to Mrs BJ unfortunately certainly puts PB into perspective
Sorry to hear that BJO. Best wishes.
Bets of luck BJO. Hope everything works out for you and your lady. As you say, real life puts politics into proper perspective.
Comments
But I still think Cameron is a class act.
Kay saying audience was very wound up, kept having a go at Cameron after the cameras switched off.
Good work, BJO!
Can I put you down now as a Probable?
My Bulgarian wife (just got British nationality in March) has just come into the living room and told me she's made a decision on the referendum.
She's voting Leave.
Foreigner European types telling us to leave the EU! (Actually a Polish now naturalised Brit interviewed the other week is as well)
There are some on here who seem to deliberately confuse the two so that they can paint those who oppose the former as nasty people because they hate the latter when in fact such is not the case.
Wanting to be able to manage migration so that we attract the skilled and those who will be a positive benefit to the UK, regardless of where in the world they come from, whilst not accepting those who will be a drain on our society, has nothing to do with being nasty or being anti-immigrant.
-----------
There is, of course, nothing immoral about adopting a points-based immigration system. It would, however, have the following drawbacks:
1) Other EU countries are likely to do the same with regard to us. This means the would mean the end of free movement in the EU for UK citizens. Only the elite with sufficient money or skills will have the option of settling in EU countries; plebs are confined to the UK.
2) Bureaucracy and inefficiency. It's going to cost a lot more to have the state, rather than the free market, decide which skills are needed, and the state will invariably do a worse job than the free market.
3) The general principle of self-determination. Having governments decide whether people are permitted to live in particular places rather than allowing them to decide for themselves is a loss of freedom and a victory for stateism.
Edit: Trying to sort out the damn blockquotes is a nightmare on this forum!
Thinking of BJO and family. Thanks for popping in!
Still a long way to go, of course, but maybe grounds for hope.