politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A tale of two broadcasts. Roger’s critique of the opening t
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Saw a snippet of news. Cameron an impressive speaker for Remain, even though he's full of shit (he has no doubt about us remaining in... even though he said he'd recommend we leave if his deal [which is rarely mentioned] wasn't good enough).
Also, there was a piece about boats crossing the Channel. If that happens more, or fears of it rise, that could alter votes.0 -
Under Clegg they were dead centre under Farron a shade further left true but Farron did back airstrikes in Syria unlike Corbyn and if you think the Tories are too right-wing even under Cameron and Labour too left-wing Farron probably suits you fineWanderer said:
The current incarnation of the LDs is really too far to the left to appeal strongly to such voters. However, if it becomes a choice between Corbyn or a right-wing Tory I think the LDs would pick up a few votes from that quarter.HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.0 -
100 lines and go stand in the corner ydoethurydoethur said:
*facepalm*surbiton said:
You were a teacher ?ydoethur said:
Peter, you clearly haven't met many Bristol councillors. They're all deemed fit to vote and in comparative terms, they are not fit to run a race. Indeed, if they were running the 100 metres they would be beating by a three legged tortoise dragging a full set of anchors from an oil tanker (and I'm not talking about their collective girth, either)!peter_from_putney said:If it is ONLY Bristol which has the hovering, photo-shopped hand, then that can only increase one's suspicions as to who was responsible and why this was done.
It would be ridiculous to suggest that this was simply to show a voter how to enter a cross in a box. Were anyone mentally incapable of carrying out such a simple task, with physical assistance if necessary, then they are clearly unfit to vote.
(Disclaimer - I used to work in an LEA school in Bristol, which colours my judgement somewhat.)
"if they were running the 100 metres they would be beating by a three legged tortoise dragging a full set of anchors from an oil tanker"
Can't complain either, as I'm always doing it to other people!
In my defence, I have been rather ill and I am still not feeling 100%. However, it's a fair cop and you've got me bang to rights.
PS - I still am a teacher, just not in Bristol.0 -
I've just watched the PM and Sadiq Khan on SKY, who unbelievably went to the adverts during the PM's speech. What a poor speaker Sadiq Khan is, he showed about as much passion as "a damp rag." Have London really elected the right man?
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That is true for the politicians. It may not be true for the voters. The question of whether we are safer in or outside the EU or whether this makes no difference at all may be affected by such an incident, depending on how important that issue is to the voter in question.Wanderer said:
That's very true. According to the UK media, at least, it was the Spanish government's reaction to 3/11, instantly and wrongly blaming it on ETA, that had more bearing on the subsequent election than the attack itself. (I don't know if there's any truth in that though.)Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, sadly, I'm not sure terrorism (including terrorism in France in particular) counts as a black swan.
There's the potential for both campaigns to screw up a response by being overly political with it.
I think that anyone who was seen to be trying to crudely capitalise on an attack would be in trouble. The smart response from both sides would be the solemn statesmanlike one.
While such an atrocity may not be a Black Swan it brings together, potentially, 3 of the most toxic items in the debate: the Middle Eastern migration crisis, free movement and security. How those will intersect and affect the vote, who can say?0 -
Tough competition, anything with Evans is guaranteed to be crap, he makes Mr Tumble look like an adult performer.HYUFD said:
It did win the ratings war in that slot though beating the British Soap Awards on 3.9 m so is likely to be the most watched BBC2 programme of the week, whether that lasts...MarkHopkins said:Top Gear return watched by 4.4m viewers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-6411819
Evans wanted at least 5 million.0 -
General Election
So it's #BankHolidayMonday and still all this talk of #EUref
https://t.co/ZsjFtrNSfQ
Link has coverage of the 1975 EEC referendum result0 -
A Labour and Lib Dem run city?Sandpit said:
Ouch, that's quite shocking. Also amazed that with so many middle classes in the city there haven't been a bunch of independent councillors elected. 20% in private education is a huge number.ydoethur said:
Hyufd, it was our view as very stressed teachers in a struggling, understaffed school falling apart because of a dud PFI contract, that nobody ever actually worked at Bristol City Council - they were merely employed by it!HYUFD said:
Not that many are still working for Bristol City Council given the current economic climateydoethur said:
Sandpit, nobody in Bristol City Council would be sacked for a little thing like this. In fact, it is quite hard to think what you can get sacked for when working for Bristol City Council. Clive Lewis' famous suggestion wouldn't be considered a serious matter, for example.Sandpit said:
Sandpit, it was pretty bad. To give you some idea of how corrupt it was, we had a school inspection regime from the LEA that in my experience of them employed only teachers who had been sacked for incompetence (when you consider how hard it is to sack a teacher for incompetence, that is saying quite something). On one monitoring visit, within an hour the most senior inspector had made a girl break down in tears by bullying her for failing to hold a door open while the inspectors walked the length of a corridor to get to it. These inspectors only ever ran the school down in their reports, because their one goal was to get it placed into special measures and so taken off their hands. Oddly, the person most resistant to that at the school was the Head (the rest of us couldn't wait to get rid of the bar stewards). OFSTED kept refusing to do it, however, on the basis that things were bad, but not *that* bad, andthey couldn't be bothered to pay for it or sort the mess out themselvespolicy dictated only schools in Special Measures should be put into forced academisation.
I left the LEA system as a result. I have worked since only in academies, and I would never go back. Of the five history teachers there at the time, one has retired, two have followed my example, and one is having a baby every year and is therefore on constant maternity leave. It was a really good department too.
Now remember that this was happening all over the city - and you have some idea of why 20% of all Bristol's children are privately educated, and the Free School in Westbury, plus Bristol Cathedral School and St Mary Redcliffe and Temple, the Church of England schools, one an academy and one voluntary-aided and therefore both de facto removed from LEA control, are so heavily oversubscribed.
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Disagee, Currently the Tory party (leadership at least) is centre right. That represents my political views adequately. Why should I want to change and vote for a party with a significant left wing bloc?HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.
Equally if moderate Tory and floating voters were so suited by the Lib Dems then surely they would have performed significantly better at recent elections.
If right wing Tories are so disillusioned by the current (elected) government perhaps they should pop off to a party that suits them......UKIP.0 -
I managed 30 minutes before retreating to the pub.MarkHopkins said:Top Gear return watched by 4.4m viewers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36411819
Evans wanted at least 5 million.
The bonhomie seemed quite forced to me.0 -
Lady Bucket, Khan Vs Goldsmith was a bit Alien Vs Predator [whoever wins, we lose].0
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Conservative LEAVE supporters getting a taste of what it's like to face the Tory election machine.0
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There doesn't appear to be much that Cameron and Clegg disagree on.midwinter said:
Disagee, Currently the Tory party (leadership at least) is centre right. That represents my political views adequately. Why should I want to change and vote for a party with a significant left wing bloc?HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.
Equally if moderate Tory and floating voters were so suited by the Lib Dems then surely they would have performed significantly better at recent elections.
If right wing Tories are so disillusioned by the current (elected) government perhaps they should pop off to a party that suits them......UKIP.0 -
Reminds me of Trump v Clinton.Morris_Dancer said:Lady Bucket, Khan Vs Goldsmith was a bit Alien Vs Predator [whoever wins, we lose].
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Final word on the subject.HYUFD said:
How can parents judge schools without league tables beyond the extra curricula?
League tables are a shambles. Memorably, Eton and Harrow came at the bottom of them last year. I do not think anyone would argue these are the worst schools in the land! Progress 8 will if anything be even more arbitrary because of the peculiar way it weights for English.
To quote my Dorothy Wainwright:
'They could tell if the kids [sic] could read and write and do sums. They could tell if the neighbours were happy with the school. They could tell if exam results weren't good.'
Or - and here's a really revolutionary idea - they could go and look! Take an interest in their children's school! Just think how that might change things...
@malcolmg I'm at home, so I haven't got any lined paper. Will a hundred lines on the computer suffice? I appreciate I am a turnip and everything else for failing to resource this properly. However, I can't stand in the corner doing it either as my bookcases get in the way. So can I sit down as well?
You can tell I spend a lot of time working with teenagers given the lameness of my evasions!0 -
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FrancisUrquhart said:
The relaunch of BBC Two's Top Gear was seen by an average of 4.4 million viewers, overnight figures show.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36411819
So well down on the terrible last Clarkson series. Be interesting to see how many they lose by the end of the series.
Just a bit duller and less impromptu than the Clarkson version of Top Gear.
They need to get more of the verve Chris Evans showed in TFI Friday.0 -
I did a long yougov yesterday asking for all sorts of backround on various issues to do with the campaigns and about aspects of immigration in particular.stodge said:
Yes and we had two Lithuanians recently who preferred sleeping rough under the Canning Town flyover to a free ticket back home.foxinsoxuk said:Talking with my Dad yesterday over a BBQ.
He had a bit of a rant about two black men who he saw walking up a motorway. He thought that they had been lorry stowaways so he is voting Leave.
I pointed out that they were illegal arrivals already, and being in or out of tbe EU makes no difference. Then a short rant about Poles in Lidl. I pointed out that some of his oldest school friends are Poles who are now perfectly British (as is his doctor). After this anti-european tirade he headed off to the airport Euros in hand for a short break on the Adriatic.
Part of being a democracy means that the ill informed have the same say as the best informed. It works both ways.
As we see on here, the journey from sanity to inanity doesn't mean the loss of basic typing skills regrettably and a cheap jibe in lieu of an argument requires much less cerebral activity which again will be a welcome relief to some.
It's strange polling organisations rarely ask people WHY they vote or think the way they do. I realise that would be time consuming and difficult to quantify but would be informative.
I think immigration is an incredibly complex, multi-faceted issue for which there is or are no easy answers (if there were, we'd be doing it) but, a bit like crime, it's all about perceptions which feed the story. The statistics aren't believed because they don't fit perceptions.
One of the major reasons that I am less agitated about immigration than my dad is that I do not believe that Leave can reduce it by much, and I prefer EU migrants who have a common culture with us and have a long history of assimilation. The projected growth in population is almost entirely due to an ageing population. Under the ONS projections the working age population is static.
http://infacts.org/telegraphs-ons-story-barking-wrong-tree/
Of course crashing the economy, with increasing unemployment followed by harsh austerity is the most effective way to reverse the migration flow. Leave should hail this as a feature not a bug.0 -
Don't Eton and Harrow come nowhere because they don't offer GCSEs, rather the Int Bac and A-levels only?ydoethur said:
Final word on the subject.HYUFD said:
How can parents judge schools without league tables beyond the extra curricula?
League tables are a shambles. Memorably, Eton and Harrow came at the bottom of them last year. I do not think anyone would argue these are the worst schools in the land! Progress 8 will if anything be even more arbitrary because of the peculiar way it weights for English.
Anecdotal evidence from the sandpit, the rich locals here (and expats from all over the world) send their kids to local franchises of English private schools. The really rich locals want to send their kids boarding to the UK. Eton is the school at makes Prime Ministers for a good reason.
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Will let you off this onceydoethur said:
Final word on the subject.HYUFD said:
How can parents judge schools without league tables beyond the extra curricula?
League tables are a shambles. Memorably, Eton and Harrow came at the bottom of them last year. I do not think anyone would argue these are the worst schools in the land! Progress 8 will if anything be even more arbitrary because of the peculiar way it weights for English.
To quote my Dorothy Wainwright:
'They could tell if the kids [sic] could read and write and do sums. They could tell if the neighbours were happy with the school. They could tell if exam results weren't good.'
Or - and here's a really revolutionary idea - they could go and look! Take an interest in their children's school! Just think how that might change things...
@malcolmg I'm at home, so I haven't got any lined paper. Will a hundred lines on the computer suffice? I appreciate I am a turnip and everything else for failing to resource this properly. However, I can't stand in the corner doing it either as my bookcases get in the way. So can I sit down as well?
You can tell I spend a lot of time working with teenagers given the lameness of my evasions!
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On the subject of Roger's article.
Interesting view from the Remain side. I thought the Leave one was better but put that down to bias.
I think there is some consensus that the whole campaign is low quality. (both sides).
What I think Leave needs to do is to show the risks of Remain, in particular the economic risks.0 -
Yes, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Clegg, Laws et al had come to power in the Lib Dems now. Centre right fiscally and centre socially is where you win elections from currently.Wanderer said:
The current incarnation of the LDs is really too far to the left to appeal strongly to such voters. However, if it becomes a choice between Corbyn or a right-wing Tory I think the LDs would pick up a few votes from that quarter.HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.0 -
Mr. Evershed, less Evans is the answer. A quotient of zero would be optimal.0
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At A level they rank as very good schools, but do not challenge the top. In some respects their intake must be more mixed than other schools.Sandpit said:
Don't Eton and Harrow come nowhere because they don't offer GCSEs, rather the Int Bac and A-levels only?ydoethur said:
Final word on the subject.HYUFD said:
How can parents judge schools without league tables beyond the extra curricula?
League tables are a shambles. Memorably, Eton and Harrow came at the bottom of them last year. I do not think anyone would argue these are the worst schools in the land! Progress 8 will if anything be even more arbitrary because of the peculiar way it weights for English.
Anecdotal evidence from the sandpit, the rich locals here (and expats from all over the world) send their kids to local franchises of English private schools. The really rich locals want to send their kids boarding to the UK. Eton is the school at makes Prime Ministers for a good reason.0 -
Yes. It came accross that Evans and LeBlanc do not like each other.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
I managed 30 minutes before retreating to the pub.MarkHopkins said:Top Gear return watched by 4.4m viewers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36411819
Evans wanted at least 5 million.
The bonhomie seemed quite forced to me.
I don't think LeBlanc will last long.0 -
They have drafted in Danny Baker to improve the scripts...next stop a bar in the production office and it will be TFI-Sunday...oh and we have cars.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Evershed, less Evans is the answer. A quotient of zero would be optimal.
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Imagine trying to get Prince Harry to get 4 A's :-)TheWhiteRabbit said:
At A level they rank as very good schools, but do not challenge the top. In some respects their intake must be more mixed than other schools.Sandpit said:
Don't Eton and Harrow come nowhere because they don't offer GCSEs, rather the Int Bac and A-levels only?ydoethur said:
Final word on the subject.HYUFD said:
How can parents judge schools without league tables beyond the extra curricula?
League tables are a shambles. Memorably, Eton and Harrow came at the bottom of them last year. I do not think anyone would argue these are the worst schools in the land! Progress 8 will if anything be even more arbitrary because of the peculiar way it weights for English.
Anecdotal evidence from the sandpit, the rich locals here (and expats from all over the world) send their kids to local franchises of English private schools. The really rich locals want to send their kids boarding to the UK. Eton is the school at makes Prime Ministers for a good reason.0 -
Dr. Foxinsox, they should axe Evans and give Le Blanc a chance, if that's the choice.
Mr. Urquhart, I never watched TFI. The appeal of Evans is something I do not understand. It's more baffling than people who think Caesar was a better general than Hannibal.0 -
Extra Gear guys were better...not fantastic, but better.Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, they should axe Evans and give Le Blanc a chance, if that's the choice.
Mr. Urquhart, I never watched TFI. The appeal of Evans is something I do not understand. It's more baffling than people who think Caesar was a better general than Hannibal.
A Feeble Jeremy Clarkson (and that is the nicest thing he says)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/364114270 -
Farron is leader of the Lib Dems. He is definitely not centre right.blackburn63 said:
There doesn't appear to be much that Cameron and Clegg disagree on.midwinter said:
Disagee, Currently the Tory party (leadership at least) is centre right. That represents my political views adequately. Why should I want to change and vote for a party with a significant left wing bloc?HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.
Equally if moderate Tory and floating voters were so suited by the Lib Dems then surely they would have performed significantly better at recent elections.
If right wing Tories are so disillusioned by the current (elected) government perhaps they should pop off to a party that suits them......UKIP.0 -
Yes but nobody has had the chance to vote for him yetmidwinter said:
Farron is leader of the Lib Dems. He is definitely not centre right.blackburn63 said:
There doesn't appear to be much that Cameron and Clegg disagree on.midwinter said:
Disagee, Currently the Tory party (leadership at least) is centre right. That represents my political views adequately. Why should I want to change and vote for a party with a significant left wing bloc?HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.
Equally if moderate Tory and floating voters were so suited by the Lib Dems then surely they would have performed significantly better at recent elections.
If right wing Tories are so disillusioned by the current (elected) government perhaps they should pop off to a party that suits them......UKIP.0 -
How dare you say such a thing. They are best of buddies and Evans never has got upset and angry behind the scenes..foxinsoxuk said:
Yes. It came accross that Evans and LeBlanc do not like each other.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
I managed 30 minutes before retreating to the pub.MarkHopkins said:Top Gear return watched by 4.4m viewers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36411819
Evans wanted at least 5 million.
The bonhomie seemed quite forced to me.
I don't think LeBlanc will last long.0 -
There's some really strange and very amusing biases playing during this referendum. I've a stream of Remainers calling Leaver waycists - and then a whole load of Leavers throw the same arguments back by pointing out a preference for Caucasian immigration by Remainers.blackburn63 said:Anecdote alert.
Interesting conversation with a 19 year old student, she said we was certain to vote IN because she felt OUT would lead to a rise in racism, but listening to Obama she was moving to OUT, was disappointed because she'd previously liked him. Most of her friends are for IN but won't get round to voting.
Impossible to make predictions, I still think one big event out of everybody's control will seal it one way or other.
It's a complete bun-fight. I've no idea who's winning - there's so much head v heart going on.0 -
He's not really a natural alternative for Tory/ floating voters who are put off by the right wing of the party though is he? Which is what was suggested earlier.blackburn63 said:
Yes but nobody has had the chance to vote for him yetmidwinter said:
Farron is leader of the Lib Dems. He is definitely not centre right.blackburn63 said:
There doesn't appear to be much that Cameron and Clegg disagree on.midwinter said:
Disagee, Currently the Tory party (leadership at least) is centre right. That represents my political views adequately. Why should I want to change and vote for a party with a significant left wing bloc?HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.
Equally if moderate Tory and floating voters were so suited by the Lib Dems then surely they would have performed significantly better at recent elections.
If right wing Tories are so disillusioned by the current (elected) government perhaps they should pop off to a party that suits them......UKIP.0 -
Just finished watching that. It is utterly barmy if Harris is relegated to the web-only show, and they had the news bit, and Sabine actually got to say something, and Rory Reid seems good enough to be on the main show presenting it.FrancisUrquhart said:Extra Gear guys were better...not fantastic, but better.
There's actually the makings of a decent show that doesn't try to be the old Top Gear, if only the BBC hadn't handed the job to Chris Evans.
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Well people seemed to manage it satisfactorily with private schools for decades. We have a retired private school headmaster in the HDGTA and his method of demonstrating how good his school was was when prospective parents came to look around to choose a random pupil and told the pupil, "This is Mr. & Mrs Smith, please show them around the school and answer all of their questions and then take them into you next lesson". After the tour and sitting in on a random lesson the head would then meet the parents answer any question they still had and provide them with a printed sheet showing the school's exam results over the past five years and how many students had gone on to what university. Basically, he let the pupils and teachers sell the school for him. Worked very well he tells me.HYUFD said:
How can parents judge schools without league tables beyond the extra curricula?
The problem with the implementation of Gove's ideas that the good Doctor refers to was probably down to the civil service in the department of education, or whatever it calls itself these days. They have a history of buggering up and over-complicating every reform since 1874. They are, as the doctor himself has noted on here previously, bloody useless.0 -
Absolutely. It makes you look defensive, scared of being found out and stupid.Sandpit said:
Surely it's in the PR 101 that if you shut journalists out of an event, they will just run with the story that you shut them out?PlatoSaid said:Christopher Hope
Journalists not invited (we asked to go). It's only activists there. https://t.co/yGGQxrH5NI
If your campaign event is of such poor quality that you fear a negative press response - you're selling a crap experience. So bloody well fix it, pretending it isn't crap doesn't change anything.0 -
A good book that, if not up to the level of Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs.Theuniondivvie said:Based on Thomas Harris's little-read first novel.
I'll bet his publisher has 24/7 hotline waiting for him to confirm that he has another book ready.
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Those right wing MPs that you say put people off, are MPs though. That is to say they have been elected.midwinter said:
He's not really a natural alternative for Tory/ floating voters who are put off by the right wing of the party though is he? Which is what was suggested earlier.blackburn63 said:
Yes but nobody has had the chance to vote for him yetmidwinter said:
Farron is leader of the Lib Dems. He is definitely not centre right.blackburn63 said:
There doesn't appear to be much that Cameron and Clegg disagree on.midwinter said:
Disagee, Currently the Tory party (leadership at least) is centre right. That represents my political views adequately. Why should I want to change and vote for a party with a significant left wing bloc?HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.
Equally if moderate Tory and floating voters were so suited by the Lib Dems then surely they would have performed significantly better at recent elections.
If right wing Tories are so disillusioned by the current (elected) government perhaps they should pop off to a party that suits them......UKIP.0 -
Does anyone have a link to the Extra Gear show? Couldn't find it last night but know well of Chris Harris and his penchant for going sideways!FrancisUrquhart said:
Extra Gear guys were better...not fantastic, but better.Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, they should axe Evans and give Le Blanc a chance, if that's the choice.
Mr. Urquhart, I never watched TFI. The appeal of Evans is something I do not understand. It's more baffling than people who think Caesar was a better general than Hannibal.
A Feeble Jeremy Clarkson (and that is the nicest thing he says)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36411427
0 -
This is very funny live blog - it's in reverse order so click on 4/4 https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/live/2016/may/29/top-gear-chris-evans-and-matt-leblanc-launch-new-series-liveRobC said:
Not bad but viewing figures for the second and third eppys will reveal more. I suspect whether you rate it or not will depend on how much you like Chris Evans as he has a way of dominating everything he's in. I would have gone for a complete revamp with a woman presenter and two interesting sidekicks.MarkHopkins said:Top Gear return watched by 4.4m viewers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36411819
Evans wanted at least 5 million.0 -
BBC3 website. Its for the yuff...Sandpit said:
Does anyone have a link to the Extra Gear show? Couldn't find it last night but know well of Chris Harris and his penchant for going sideways!FrancisUrquhart said:
Extra Gear guys were better...not fantastic, but better.Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, they should axe Evans and give Le Blanc a chance, if that's the choice.
Mr. Urquhart, I never watched TFI. The appeal of Evans is something I do not understand. It's more baffling than people who think Caesar was a better general than Hannibal.
A Feeble Jeremy Clarkson (and that is the nicest thing he says)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36411427
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p03w1dcs/top-gear-extra-gear-episode-10 -
Lib Dem party members have had the chance to vote for him and that is why he is their leader and represents them.blackburn63 said:
Yes but nobody has had the chance to vote for him yetmidwinter said:
Farron is leader of the Lib Dems. He is definitely not centre right.blackburn63 said:
There doesn't appear to be much that Cameron and Clegg disagree on.midwinter said:
Disagee, Currently the Tory party (leadership at least) is centre right. That represents my political views adequately. Why should I want to change and vote for a party with a significant left wing bloc?HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.
Equally if moderate Tory and floating voters were so suited by the Lib Dems then surely they would have performed significantly better at recent elections.
If right wing Tories are so disillusioned by the current (elected) government perhaps they should pop off to a party that suits them......UKIP.
If you're only going to mention party leaders that have faced a General Election even if they resigned afterwards then we may as well still talk about not just Clegg for the Lib Dems but also Miliband as leader of Labour and Farage as leader of UKIP. They've all resigned though and all three Clegg and Miliband are now history.0 -
On the back of the position of the leadership of the Conservatives.HurstLlama said:
Those right wing MPs that you say put people off, are MPs though. That is to say they have been elected.midwinter said:
He's not really a natural alternative for Tory/ floating voters who are put off by the right wing of the party though is he? Which is what was suggested earlier.blackburn63 said:
Yes but nobody has had the chance to vote for him yetmidwinter said:
Farron is leader of the Lib Dems. He is definitely not centre right.blackburn63 said:
There doesn't appear to be much that Cameron and Clegg disagree on.midwinter said:
Disagee, Currently the Tory party (leadership at least) is centre right. That represents my political views adequately. Why should I want to change and vote for a party with a significant left wing bloc?HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.
Equally if moderate Tory and floating voters were so suited by the Lib Dems then surely they would have performed significantly better at recent elections.
If right wing Tories are so disillusioned by the current (elected) government perhaps they should pop off to a party that suits them......UKIP.0 -
He is not far left either. He is quite keen on social housing, state provision of services, local government etc. Economically he is no Corbynista, and he has been quite forthright in condemning terrorists. He is well to the right of most of the Labour party, though to the left of most PB commentators.midwinter said:
Farron is leader of the Lib Dems. He is definitely not centre right.blackburn63 said:
There doesn't appear to be much that Cameron and Clegg disagree on.midwinter said:
Disagee, Currently the Tory party (leadership at least) is centre right. That represents my political views adequately. Why should I want to change and vote for a party with a significant left wing bloc?HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.
Equally if moderate Tory and floating voters were so suited by the Lib Dems then surely they would have performed significantly better at recent elections.
If right wing Tories are so disillusioned by the current (elected) government perhaps they should pop off to a party that suits them......UKIP.0 -
Or in safe solidly right-wing constituencies. Just as Islington doesn't represent the whole country neither does Wokingham.midwinter said:
On the back of the position of the leadership of the Conservatives.HurstLlama said:
Those right wing MPs that you say put people off, are MPs though. That is to say they have been elected.midwinter said:
He's not really a natural alternative for Tory/ floating voters who are put off by the right wing of the party though is he? Which is what was suggested earlier.blackburn63 said:
Yes but nobody has had the chance to vote for him yetmidwinter said:
Farron is leader of the Lib Dems. He is definitely not centre right.blackburn63 said:
There doesn't appear to be much that Cameron and Clegg disagree on.midwinter said:
Disagee, Currently the Tory party (leadership at least) is centre right. That represents my political views adequately. Why should I want to change and vote for a party with a significant left wing bloc?HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.
Equally if moderate Tory and floating voters were so suited by the Lib Dems then surely they would have performed significantly better at recent elections.
If right wing Tories are so disillusioned by the current (elected) government perhaps they should pop off to a party that suits them......UKIP.0 -
I imagine it is to to do with Cameron declaring Khan to be the antichrist during the mayoral election.PlatoSaid said:
Absolutely. It makes you look defensive, scared of being found out and stupid.Sandpit said:
Surely it's in the PR 101 that if you shut journalists out of an event, they will just run with the story that you shut them out?PlatoSaid said:Christopher Hope
Journalists not invited (we asked to go). It's only activists there. https://t.co/yGGQxrH5NI
If your campaign event is of such poor quality that you fear a negative press response - you're selling a crap experience. So bloody well fix it, pretending it isn't crap doesn't change anything.
0 -
If I'm an IT guy and I can see that, then surely the politicians and PR guys can see it too? Will the 1 o'clock news dare to run with it?PlatoSaid said:
Absolutely. It makes you look defensive, scared of being found out and stupid.Sandpit said:
Surely it's in the PR 101 that if you shut journalists out of an event, they will just run with the story that you shut them out?PlatoSaid said:Christopher Hope
Journalists not invited (we asked to go). It's only activists there. https://t.co/yGGQxrH5NI
If your campaign event is of such poor quality that you fear a negative press response - you're selling a crap experience. So bloody well fix it, pretending it isn't crap doesn't change anything.0 -
From the sounds of the reviews it's Evans that should go.foxinsoxuk said:
Yes. It came accross that Evans and LeBlanc do not like each other.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
I managed 30 minutes before retreating to the pub.MarkHopkins said:Top Gear return watched by 4.4m viewers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36411819
Evans wanted at least 5 million.
The bonhomie seemed quite forced to me.
I don't think LeBlanc will last long.
0 -
There's a lovely observation elsewhere along the lines of 'the old presenters pretended to hate each other, the new ones pretend to be friends'.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
I managed 30 minutes before retreating to the pub.MarkHopkins said:Top Gear return watched by 4.4m viewers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36411819
Evans wanted at least 5 million.
The bonhomie seemed quite forced to me.0 -
Fair point. I still don't think he is as appealing an option to centre voters as Clegg would be (obviously without the baggage). To be fair the Lib Dems are so far from being in a position of power currently that it's hard to consider them as an alternative worth bothering with. Which is a shame for those of them who worked hard in Government.foxinsoxuk said:
He is not far left either. He is quite keen on social housing, state provision of services, local government etc. Economically he is no Corbynista, and he has been quite forthright in condemning terrorists. He is well to the right of most of the Labour party, though to the left of most PB commentators.midwinter said:
Farron is leader of the Lib Dems. He is definitely not centre right.blackburn63 said:
There doesn't appear to be much that Cameron and Clegg disagree on.midwinter said:
Disagee, Currently the Tory party (leadership at least) is centre right. That represents my political views adequately. Why should I want to change and vote for a party with a significant left wing bloc?HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.
Equally if moderate Tory and floating voters were so suited by the Lib Dems then surely they would have performed significantly better at recent elections.
If right wing Tories are so disillusioned by the current (elected) government perhaps they should pop off to a party that suits them......UKIP.0 -
It was a photo-op, nothing more. The hostile press will write hostile things whether allowed in or not.Sandpit said:
If I'm an IT guy and I can see that, then surely the politicians and PR guys can see it too? Will the 1 o'clock news dare to run with it?PlatoSaid said:
Absolutely. It makes you look defensive, scared of being found out and stupid.Sandpit said:
Surely it's in the PR 101 that if you shut journalists out of an event, they will just run with the story that you shut them out?PlatoSaid said:Christopher Hope
Journalists not invited (we asked to go). It's only activists there. https://t.co/yGGQxrH5NI
If your campaign event is of such poor quality that you fear a negative press response - you're selling a crap experience. So bloody well fix it, pretending it isn't crap doesn't change anything.
0 -
It picks up a bit in the next episode.NickPalmer said:I thought the first Vote Leave ad worked well in a crude sort of way, but the "in the EU/out of the EU" split screen was confusing and dull - not really clear that it was making that much difference, and I gave up after a couple of minutes.
0 -
For me the problem was it was scripted as if for the old team, and if you make the comparisons across the two eras, Chris Evans is more like Richard Hammond on speed, with Matt Le Blanc closer to Jeremy Clarkson, delivering dry quips in a deeper voice.glw said:
Just finished watching that. It is utterly barmy if Harris is relegated to the web-only show, and they had the news bit, and Sabine actually got to say something, and Rory Reid seems good enough to be on the main show presenting it.FrancisUrquhart said:Extra Gear guys were better...not fantastic, but better.
There's actually the makings of a decent show that doesn't try to be the old Top Gear, if only the BBC hadn't handed the job to Chris Evans.0 -
And so Cameron was the wrong person to front Remain here. He's running a very presidential campaign for StrongerIn. There are other Tories senior available.SouthamObserver said:
I imagine it is to to do with Cameron declaring Khan to be the antichrist during the mayoral election.PlatoSaid said:
SrroneSandpit said:
Surely it's in the PR 101 that if you shut journalists out of an event, they will just run with the story that you shut them out?PlatoSaid said:Christopher Hope
Journalists not invited (we asked to go). It's only activists there. https://t.co/yGGQxrH5NI
Absolutely. It makes you look defensive, scared of being found out and stupid.
If your campaign event is of such poor quality that you fear a negative press response - you're selling a crap experience. So bloody well fix it, pretending it isn't crap doesn't change anything.0 -
I did not see it, but it strikes me that Le Blanc is an actor so can handle a script, Evans isn't, so can't.DecrepitJohnL said:
For me the problem was it was scripted as if for the old team, and if you make the comparisons across the two eras, Chris Evans is more like Richard Hammond on speed, with Matt Le Blanc closer to Jeremy Clarkson, delivering dry quips in a deeper voice.glw said:
Just finished watching that. It is utterly barmy if Harris is relegated to the web-only show, and they had the news bit, and Sabine actually got to say something, and Rory Reid seems good enough to be on the main show presenting it.FrancisUrquhart said:Extra Gear guys were better...not fantastic, but better.
There's actually the makings of a decent show that doesn't try to be the old Top Gear, if only the BBC hadn't handed the job to Chris Evans.
0 -
I think that we are now seeing how useful it was to have the LibDems in government. Who here thinks that?midwinter said:
Fair point. I still don't think he is as appealing an option to centre voters as Clegg would be (obviously without the baggage). To be fair the Lib Dems are so far from being in a position of power currently that it's hard to consider them as an alternative worth bothering with. Which is a shame for those of them who worked hard in Government.foxinsoxuk said:
He is not far left either. He is quite keen on social housing, state provision of services, local government etc. Economically he is no Corbynista, and he has been quite forthright in condemning terrorists. He is well to the right of most of the Labour party, though to the left of most PB commentators.midwinter said:
Farron is leader of the Lib Dems. He is definitely not centre right.blackburn63 said:
There doesn't appear to be much that Cameron and Clegg disagree on.midwinter said:
Disagee, Currently the Tory party (leadership at least) is centre right. That represents my political .HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.
I voted for Lamb but Farron was good at the hustings. It will be a long road back, and starting in local government.the self destruction of both Tories and Labour is a good opportunity.0 -
Dr. Foxinsox, I agree although it's worth noting the EU referendum is a pretty stark difference to the previous Parliament.
0 -
Yes but how far did being dead centre get Clegg? There are only a tiny minority of voters who are fiscally centrist, socially liberal and are happy to stay in the EU, to get anywhere the LDs also need some voters from the centre left toomidwinter said:
Fair point. I still don't think he is as appealing an option to centre voters as Clegg would be (obviously without the baggage). To be fair the Lib Dems are so far from being in a position of power currently that it's hard to consider them as an alternative worth bothering with. Which is a shame for those of them who worked hard in Government.foxinsoxuk said:
He is not far left either. He is quite keen on social housing, state provision of services, local government etc. Economically he is no Corbynista, and he has been quite forthright in condemning terrorists. He is well to the right of most of the Labour party, though to the left of most PB commentators.midwinter said:
Farron is leader of the Lib Dems. He is definitely not centre right.blackburn63 said:
There doesn't appear to be much that Cameron and Clegg disagree on.midwinter said:
Disagee, Currently the Tory party (leadership at least) is centre right. That represents my political views adequately. Why .HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.0 -
I am not sure how you can be so sure of that. Some may have been others have been elected for donkeys years under all sorts of Conservative leaderships.midwinter said:
On the back of the position of the leadership of the Conservatives.
Mind you, I think this whole left wing right wing thing is an absurd anachronism. Trying to pigeon-hole people on some point of a continuum is plain daft and if such stereotyping were used in other aspects of civil society it would be unacceptable if not downright illegal.
Let us take one MP I know reasonably well, Nicholas Soames. In some areas such as defence he is a strong supporter of what might be considered right wing views. In other areas (e.g. local government, planning, rural affairs etc.) he is a solidly old-fashioned patrician Tory. In others, such as health, he is well to the left of the leadership. So trying to put a label on the man is crackers.0 -
Have to say I think it is probably a misstep for the PM to campaign with Khan. Firstly it looks a little hypocritical given all that the PM said about him just weeks ago, and secondly there is still a lot of ill-feeling among Tory voters towards Khan.
They should have been speaking separately at the same event rather than appear together. It probably hurts the PM with London MPs who are looking at the rising red tide in London worrying about their majorities in 2020.0 -
It was VERY scripted. The fact you could tell, tells you all you need to know. Old Top Gear was also very very carefully scripted by an obsessive Clarkson, but the best episodes were often were you couldn't tell if / when the script stopped.SouthamObserver said:
I did not see it, but it strikes me that Le Blanc is an actor so can handle a script, Evans isn't, so can't.DecrepitJohnL said:
For me the problem was it was scripted as if for the old team, and if you make the comparisons across the two eras, Chris Evans is more like Richard Hammond on speed, with Matt Le Blanc closer to Jeremy Clarkson, delivering dry quips in a deeper voice.glw said:
Just finished watching that. It is utterly barmy if Harris is relegated to the web-only show, and they had the news bit, and Sabine actually got to say something, and Rory Reid seems good enough to be on the main show presenting it.FrancisUrquhart said:Extra Gear guys were better...not fantastic, but better.
There's actually the makings of a decent show that doesn't try to be the old Top Gear, if only the BBC hadn't handed the job to Chris Evans.0 -
Not now, most private schools are included in school league tables (except some of the most exclusive ones who do not always provide figures) and there is no reason why that cannot be combined with school tours, talks with the headmaster etc. Even if you are shown their results unless you can compare them with other schools in the area you are really none the wiser!HurstLlama said:
Well people seemed to manage it satisfactorily with private schools for decades. We have a retired private school headmaster in the HDGTA and his method of demonstrating how good his school was was when prospective parents came to look around to choose a random pupil and told the pupil, "This is Mr. & Mrs Smith, please show them around the school and answer all of their questions and then take them into you next lesson". After the tour and sitting in on a random lesson the head would then meet the parents answer any question they still had and provide them with a printed sheet showing the school's exam results over the past five years and how many students had gone on to what university. Basically, he let the pupils and teachers sell the school for him. Worked very well he tells me.HYUFD said:
How can parents judge schools without league tables beyond the extra curricula?
The problem with the implementation of Gove's ideas that the good Doctor refers to was probably down to the civil service in the department of education, or whatever it calls itself these days. They have a history of buggering up and over-complicating every reform since 1874. They are, as the doctor himself has noted on here previously, bloody useless.0 -
It makes Dave look like a total bell-end.MaxPB said:Have to say I think it is probably a misstep for the PM to campaign with Khan. Firstly it looks a little hypocritical given all that the PM said about him just weeks ago, and secondly there is still a lot of ill-feeling among Tory voters towards Khan.
0 -
I think it was the late Sir Keith Joseph who pointed out that elections are not won from the centre ground but from the common ground. And as his protege Margaret Thatcher demonstrated three times he was probably correct.HYUFD said:
Yes but how far did being dead centre get Clegg? There are only a tiny minority of voters who are fiscally centrist, socially liberal and are happy to stay in the EU, to get anywhere the LDs also need some voters from the centre left toomidwinter said:
Fair point. I still don't think he is as appealing an option to centre voters as Clegg would be (obviously without the baggage). To be fair the Lib Dems are so far from being in a position of power currently that it's hard to consider them as an alternative worth bothering with. Which is a shame for those of them who worked hard in Government.foxinsoxuk said:
He is not far left either. He is quite keen on social housing, state provision of services, local government etc. Economically he is no Corbynista, and he has been quite forthright in condemning terrorists. He is well to the right of most of the Labour party, though to the left of most PB commentators.midwinter said:
Farron is leader of the Lib Dems. He is definitely not centre right.blackburn63 said:
There doesn't appear to be much that Cameron and Clegg disagree on.midwinter said:
Disagee, Currently the Tory party (leadership at least) is centre right. That represents my political views adequately. Why .HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.0 -
I'd argue that Evans has two tramline formats he likes - TGIF/Toothbrush and his radio show. They've not changed in 20yrs.DecrepitJohnL said:
For me the problem was it was scripted as if for the old team, and if you make the comparisons across the two eras, Chris Evans is more like Richard Hammond on speed, with Matt Le Blanc closer to Jeremy Clarkson, delivering dry quips in a deeper voice.glw said:
Just finished watching that. It is utterly barmy if Harris is relegated to the web-only show, and they had the news bit, and Sabine actually got to say something, and Rory Reid seems good enough to be on the main show presenting it.FrancisUrquhart said:Extra Gear guys were better...not fantastic, but better.
There's actually the makings of a decent show that doesn't try to be the old Top Gear, if only the BBC hadn't handed the job to Chris Evans.
He's trying to crowbar them into Top Gear. It isn't going to work unless you like Chris Evans man-child. I find him very very dated.
It's Steve Wright In The Afternoon - that hasn't altered since I was a teenager. It's just gone from R1 to R2.0 -
Those voters will be voting for Cameron for now, many on the right will be voting UKIP. By the time the Tory right have a leader back in control of the Tory Party, Labour may well have a more moderate alternative leading them. However it is those Tory/floating voters own fault in part too for failing to vote for Clegg and voting Tory, that ensured the LDs dire results and Clegg's resignation, so I have little sympathy with their whinging!midwinter said:
He's not really a natural alternative for Tory/ floating voters who are put off by the right wing of the party though is he? Which is what was suggested earlier.blackburn63 said:
Yes but nobody has had the chance to vote for him yetmidwinter said:
Farron is leader of the Lib Dems. He is definitely not centre right.blackburn63 said:
There doesn't appear to be much that Cameron and Clegg disagree on.midwinter said:
Disagee, Currently the Tory party (leadership at least) is centre right. That represents my political views adequately. Why should I want to change and vote for a party with a significant left wing bloc?HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.
Equally if moderate Tory and floating voters were so suited by the Lib Dems then surely they would have performed significantly better at recent elections.
If right wing Tories are so disillusioned by the current (elected) government perhaps they should pop off to a party that suits them......UKIP.0 -
The only reason for that is that Eton and Harrow do not always disclose their results (in any case if you are rich enough to send your children there you will be doing so to be part of the social elite, not because of league tables). Also the league tables do not always account for those taking exams early or the IGCSE which hits top private schools but again if you can afford those schools you will not need league tables. You can go and look by all means but that will always include the school showing off its best bits, unless you have the raw data much more difficult to judgeydoethur said:
Final word on the subject.HYUFD said:
How can parents judge schools without league tables beyond the extra curricula?
League tables are a shambles. Memorably, Eton and Harrow came at the bottom of them last year. I do not think anyone would argue these are the worst schools in the land! Progress 8 will if anything be even more arbitrary because of the peculiar way it weights for English.
To quote my Dorothy Wainwright:
'They could tell if the kids [sic] could read and write and do sums. They could tell if the neighbours were happy with the school. They could tell if exam results weren't good.'
Or - and here's a really revolutionary idea - they could go and look! Take an interest in their children's school! Just think how that might change things...
@malcolmg I'm at home, so I haven't got any lined paper. Will a hundred lines on the computer suffice? I appreciate I am a turnip and everything else for failing to resource this properly. However, I can't stand in the corner doing it either as my bookcases get in the way. So can I sit down as well?
You can tell I spend a lot of time working with teenagers given the lameness of my evasions!0 -
Finn not been channelling his inner baby rhino this test...or perhaps channelling it too much. I wish whoever decided several years ago to mess with his action (when he sent them down at 94mph) had taken that tour off.0
-
I know of several US TV shows that appear quite ad libbed, yet are also very tightly scripted. It's a real talent of the writers/performers to make it seem convincing.FrancisUrquhart said:
It was VERY scripted. The fact you could tell, tells you all you need to know. Old Top Gear was also very very carefully scripted by an obsessive Clarkson, but the best episodes were often were you couldn't tell if / when the script stopped.SouthamObserver said:
I did not see it, but it strikes me that Le Blanc is an actor so can handle a script, Evans isn't, so can't.DecrepitJohnL said:
For me the problem was it was scripted as if for the old team, and if you make the comparisons across the two eras, Chris Evans is more like Richard Hammond on speed, with Matt Le Blanc closer to Jeremy Clarkson, delivering dry quips in a deeper voice.glw said:
Just finished watching that. It is utterly barmy if Harris is relegated to the web-only show, and they had the news bit, and Sabine actually got to say something, and Rory Reid seems good enough to be on the main show presenting it.FrancisUrquhart said:Extra Gear guys were better...not fantastic, but better.
There's actually the makings of a decent show that doesn't try to be the old Top Gear, if only the BBC hadn't handed the job to Chris Evans.
Le Blanc seemed a prisoner of the script. I've never watched Friends, so no idea what he's like.0 -
Fair comment, Mr Hyfud, I was just trying to answer your question about how would it be possible to judge schools in the absence of league tables. Parents would have to get off their arses and visit potential schools, just as they did before the wretched tables were introduced. It seemed to work quite well then.HYUFD said:
Not now, most private schools are included in school league tables (except some of the most exclusive ones who do not always provide figures) and there is no reason why that cannot be combined with school tours, talks with the headmaster etc. Even if you are shown their results unless you can compare them with other schools in the area you are really none the wiser!HurstLlama said:
Well people seemed to manage it satisfactorily with private schools for decades. We have a retired private school headmaster in the HDGTA and his method of demonstrating how good his school was was when prospective parents came to look around to choose a random pupil and told the pupil, "This is Mr. & Mrs Smith, please show them around the school and answer all of their questions and then take them into you next lesson". After the tour and sitting in on a random lesson the head would then meet the parents answer any question they still had and provide them with a printed sheet showing the school's exam results over the past five years and how many students had gone on to what university. Basically, he let the pupils and teachers sell the school for him. Worked very well he tells me.HYUFD said:
How can parents judge schools without league tables beyond the extra curricula?
The problem with the implementation of Gove's ideas that the good Doctor refers to was probably down to the civil service in the department of education, or whatever it calls itself these days. They have a history of buggering up and over-complicating every reform since 1874. They are, as the doctor himself has noted on here previously, bloody useless.0 -
As ever, I fear PB is over analysing things - going at them with a scanning electron microscope, when the voters will afford them a passing glance....MaxPB said:Have to say I think it is probably a misstep for the PM to campaign with Khan. Firstly it looks a little hypocritical given all that the PM said about him just weeks ago, and secondly there is still a lot of ill-feeling among Tory voters towards Khan.
They should have been speaking separately at the same event rather than appear together. It probably hurts the PM with London MPs who are looking at the rising red tide in London worrying about their majorities in 2020.
'I see Cameron was with Khan today at some rally for the EU'
How disgraceful after the statements Cameron made in the House of Commons at PMQs
'Oh, that's nice, much better if they get along than all that silly politics stuff....'0 -
Quite. The electorate doesn't consider itself far left or right but sort of reasonable, and in fact each voter has a collection of concerns to which the solutions are scattered across a traditional left right spectrum.HurstLlama said:
I think it was the late Sir Keith Joseph who pointed out that elections are not won from the centre ground but from the common ground. And as his protege Margaret Thatcher demonstrated three times he was probably correct.HYUFD said:
Yes but how far did being dead centre get Clegg? There are only a tiny minority of voters who are fiscally centrist, socially liberal and are happy to stay in the EU, to get anywhere the LDs also need some voters from the centre left toomidwinter said:
Fair point. I still don't think he is as appealing an option to centre voters as Clegg would be (obviously without the baggage). To be fair the Lib Dems are so far from being in a position of power currently that it's hard to consider them as an alternative worth bothering with. Which is a shame for those of them who worked hard in Government.foxinsoxuk said:
He is not far left either. He is quite keen on social housing, state provision of services, local government etc. Economically he is no Corbynista, and he has been quite forthright in condemning terrorists. He is well to the right of most of the Labour party, though to the left of most PB commentators.midwinter said:
Farron is leader of the Lib Dems. He is definitely not centre right.blackburn63 said:
There doesn't appear to be much that Cameron and Clegg disagree on.
It makes it harder to win an election stood in one place.0 -
I would actually agree on most of that, see belowmidwinter said:
Disagee, Currently the Tory party (leadership at least) is centre right. That represents my political views adequately. Why should I want to change and vote for a party with a significant left wing bloc?HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.
Equally if moderate Tory and floating voters were so suited by the Lib Dems then surely they would have performed significantly better at recent elections.
If right wing Tories are so disillusioned by the current (elected) government perhaps they should pop off to a party that suits them......UKIP.0 -
Oh I would agree you would still have to visit a school to see what it is really like but that can be in addition to league tables not an alternative to themHurstLlama said:
Fair comment, Mr Hyfud, I was just trying to answer your question about how would it be possible to judge schools in the absence of league tables. Parents would have to get off their arses and visit potential schools, just as they did before the wretched tables were introduced. It seemed to work quite well then.HYUFD said:
Not now, most private schools are included in school league tables (except some of the most exclusive ones who do not always provide figures) and there is no reason why that cannot be combined with school tours, talks with the headmaster etc. Even if you are shown their results unless you can compare them with other schools in the area you are really none the wiser!HurstLlama said:
Well people seemed to manage it satisfactorily with private schools for decades. We have a retired private school headmaster in the HDGTA and his method of demonstrating how good his school was was when prospective parents came to look around to choose a random pupil and told the pupil, "This is Mr. & Mrs Smith, please show them around the school and answer all of their questions and then take them into you next lesson". After the tour and sitting in on a random lesson the head would then meet the parents answer any question they still had and provide them with a printed sheet showing the school's exam results over the past five years and how many students had gone on to what university. Basically, he let the pupils and teachers sell the school for him. Worked very well he tells me.HYUFD said:
How can parents judge schools without league tables beyond the extra curricula?
The problem with the implementation of Gove's ideas that the good Doctor refers to was probably down to the civil service in the department of education, or whatever it calls itself these days. They have a history of buggering up and over-complicating every reform since 1874. They are, as the doctor himself has noted on here previously, bloody useless.0 -
I think that's because they took the more challenging iGCSEs rather than the ones prescribed by the league table bods.ydoethur said:
Final word on the subject.HYUFD said:
How can parents judge schools without league tables beyond the extra curricula?
League tables are a shambles. Memorably, Eton and Harrow came at the bottom of them last year. I do not think anyone would argue these are the worst schools in the land! Progress 8 will if anything be even more arbitrary because of the peculiar way it weights for English.
So they were scored as "zero" - rather than the more useful "not meaningful" or "not applicable"
0 -
True but if Khan can win London for Remain and Cameron the rest of the country Remain will win, Cameron will just have to deal with his divided party afterwardsMaxPB said:Have to say I think it is probably a misstep for the PM to campaign with Khan. Firstly it looks a little hypocritical given all that the PM said about him just weeks ago, and secondly there is still a lot of ill-feeling among Tory voters towards Khan.
They should have been speaking separately at the same event rather than appear together. It probably hurts the PM with London MPs who are looking at the rising red tide in London worrying about their majorities in 2020.0 -
Very sensibleHurstLlama said:
I think it was the late Sir Keith Joseph who pointed out that elections are not won from the centre ground but from the common ground. And as his protege Margaret Thatcher demonstrated three times he was probably correct.HYUFD said:
Yes but how far did being dead centre get Clegg? There are only a tiny minority of voters who are fiscally centrist, socially liberal and are happy to stay in the EU, to get anywhere the LDs also need some voters from the centre left toomidwinter said:
Fair point. I still don't think he is as appealing an option to centre voters as Clegg would be (obviously without the baggage.foxinsoxuk said:
He is not far left either. He is quite keen on social housing, state provision of services, local government etc. Economically he is no Corbynista, and he has been quite forthright in condemning terrorists. He is well to the right of most of the Labour party, though to the left of most PB commentators.midwinter said:
Farron is leader of the Lib Dems. He is definitely not centre right.blackburn63 said:
There doesn't appear to be much that Cameron and Clegg disagree on.midwinter said:
Disagee, Currently the Tory party (leadership at least) is centre right. That represents my political views adequately. Why .HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.0 -
Left/Right as a split is always going to be quite crude. As HL indicates we can each fall on this spectrum on different issues. Even more so are we as an electorate; wanting lower taxes yet more spent on the NHS and Housing, wanting to "do something" about various crises yet shy of sending in the forces, wanting free speech yet to shut out "preachers of hate" etc etc. Politicians need to work with the electorate that we have - and that is not an easy task!BenedictWhite said:
Quite. The electorate doesn't consider itself far left or right but sort of reasonable, and in fact each voter has a collection of concerns to which the solutions are scattered across a traditional left right spectrum.HurstLlama said:
I think it was the late Sir Keith Joseph who pointed out that elections are not won from the centre ground but from the common ground. And as his protege Margaret Thatcher demonstrated three times he was probably correct.HYUFD said:
Yes but how far did being dead centre get Clegg? There are only a tiny minority of voters who are fiscally centrist, socially liberal and are happy to stay in the EU, to get anywhere the LDs also need some voters from the centre left toomidwinter said:
Fair point. I still don't think he is as appealing an option to centre voters as Clegg would be (obviously without the baggage). To be fair the Lib Dems are so far from being in a position of power currently that it's hard to consider them as an alternative worth bothering with. Which is a shame for those of them who worked hard in Government.foxinsoxuk said:
He is not far left either. He is quite keen on social housing, state provision of services, local government etc. Economically he is no Corbynista, and he has been quite forthright in condemning terrorists. He is well to the right of most of the Labour party, though to the left of most PB commentators.midwinter said:
Farron is leader of the Lib Dems. He is definitely not centre right.blackburn63 said:
There doesn't appear to be much that Cameron and Clegg disagree on.
It makes it harder to win an election stood in one place.
Left/Right as a distinction does retain some validity, and it is worth noting even Mrs T won in 1979 on a fairly centrist platform.
0 -
Frankie Howerd's monolgues were scripted to the last pause, 'titter yea not' and 'Ohh no missus...no!'PlatoSaid said:
I know of several US TV shows that appear quite ad libbed, yet are also very tightly scripted. It's a real talent of the writers/performers to make it seem convincing.FrancisUrquhart said:
It was VERY scripted. The fact you could tell, tells you all you need to know. Old Top Gear was also very very carefully scripted by an obsessive Clarkson, but the best episodes were often were you couldn't tell if / when the script stopped.SouthamObserver said:
I did not see it, but it strikes me that Le Blanc is an actor so can handle a script, Evans isn't, so can't.DecrepitJohnL said:
For me the problem was it was scripted as if for the old team, and if you make the comparisons across the two eras, Chris Evans is more like Richard Hammond on speed, with Matt Le Blanc closer to Jeremy Clarkson, delivering dry quips in a deeper voice.glw said:
Just finished watching that. It is utterly barmy if Harris is relegated to the web-only show, and they had the news bit, and Sabine actually got to say something, and Rory Reid seems good enough to be on the main show presenting it.FrancisUrquhart said:Extra Gear guys were better...not fantastic, but better.
There's actually the makings of a decent show that doesn't try to be the old Top Gear, if only the BBC hadn't handed the job to Chris Evans.
0 -
Rubbish. What's centre right about them? Sound economics? Mastery over the public finances? Control over immigration? Robust on defence?midwinter said:
Disagee, Currently the Tory party (leadership at least) is centre right. That represents my political views adequately. Why should I want to change and vote for a party with a significant left wing bloc?HYUFD said:
Such voters are ideally suited to the LDs as Luckyguy saidmidwinter said:
That's not necessarily true is it. The point is that that a lot of moderate Tory leaning voters and floating voters are alienated by the right wing of the party in the same way that the left of Labour is unelectable. The personal attacks on Cameron aren't going to improve that situation, particularly given the loons making them.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well vote for them then, they're clearly your natural home.HaroldO said:I haven't really been following the whole carnival of campaign until this weekend and the personal attacks on Cameron, which seem to be an attempt to try and drag down the biggest beast that opposes them and to strike out for the future leadership campaign.
Problem is all it does is alienate people like me who are open to voting Tory (and have in the past) but are adverse to mendacious naval gazing, such as the events of this weekend. I
I would rather vote Lib Dem than see a Tory government run by the rights equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn. Ugh.
Equally if moderate Tory and floating voters were so suited by the Lib Dems then surely they would have performed significantly better at recent elections.
If right wing Tories are so disillusioned by the current (elected) government perhaps they should pop off to a party that suits them......UKIP.
Consistent polling shows us that 40 to 50% want to leave the EU. And even the most ardent europhiles would admit that most of the others are formed of reluctant remainers. That's not a loony or niche view.
0 -
Which is a good argument for campaigning separately, not together.HYUFD said:
True but if Khan can win London for Remain and Cameron the rest of the country Remain will win, Cameron will just have to deal with his divided party afterwardsMaxPB said:Have to say I think it is probably a misstep for the PM to campaign with Khan. Firstly it looks a little hypocritical given all that the PM said about him just weeks ago, and secondly there is still a lot of ill-feeling among Tory voters towards Khan.
They should have been speaking separately at the same event rather than appear together. It probably hurts the PM with London MPs who are looking at the rising red tide in London worrying about their majorities in 2020.0 -
Finn's strike rate is still the best of all the English bowlers, and so too is his average (Just). He clearly isn't as good as he once was though - just how good could he have been if kept right...FrancisUrquhart said:Finn not been channelling his inner baby rhino this test...or perhaps channelling it too much. I wish whoever decided several years ago to mess with his action (when he sent them down at 94mph) had taken that tour off.
I still think he deserves a spot but yes what could have been...0 -
Perhaps but campaigning together gets double the publicity they would get campaigning alone, which is why they took the risk!Luckyguy1983 said:
Which is a good argument for campaigning separately, not together.HYUFD said:
True but if Khan can win London for Remain and Cameron the rest of the country Remain will win, Cameron will just have to deal with his divided party afterwardsMaxPB said:Have to say I think it is probably a misstep for the PM to campaign with Khan. Firstly it looks a little hypocritical given all that the PM said about him just weeks ago, and secondly there is still a lot of ill-feeling among Tory voters towards Khan.
They should have been speaking separately at the same event rather than appear together. It probably hurts the PM with London MPs who are looking at the rising red tide in London worrying about their majorities in 2020.0 -
Had forgotten there was a cricket match going on. Looks like England are going to have to bat twice.0
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I always wondered about that. I know Old Top Gear was scripted to the inch (isn't this called "constructed reality"?) but who wrote which bits? Did Clarkson write all of it, or was it more distributed?FrancisUrquhart said:
It was VERY scripted. The fact you could tell, tells you all you need to know. Old Top Gear was also very very carefully scripted by an obsessive Clarkson, but the best episodes were often were you couldn't tell if / when the script stopped.SouthamObserver said:
I did not see it, but it strikes me that Le Blanc is an actor so can handle a script, Evans isn't, so can't.DecrepitJohnL said:
For me the problem was it was scripted as if for the old team, and if you make the comparisons across the two eras, Chris Evans is more like Richard Hammond on speed, with Matt Le Blanc closer to Jeremy Clarkson, delivering dry quips in a deeper voice.glw said:
Just finished watching that. It is utterly barmy if Harris is relegated to the web-only show, and they had the news bit, and Sabine actually got to say something, and Rory Reid seems good enough to be on the main show presenting it.FrancisUrquhart said:Extra Gear guys were better...not fantastic, but better.
There's actually the makings of a decent show that doesn't try to be the old Top Gear, if only the BBC hadn't handed the job to Chris Evans.
There's also the question of power distribution. It used to be obvious that Clarkson and May were in charge and Hammond the cheery sidekick (his verbal contributions for his first few seasons were almost exclusively agreeing with Clarkson), but after his accident and concomitant fanmail his value to the show was proven and he became more confident.
As for the Evans/LeBlanc incarnation: well, Joey's good, Evans OK but it does drag, and whilst not the disaster it's being depicted as, I still prefer the C/M/H version0 -
Ghostbusters vs Ghostbusters2016.viewcode said:
I always wondered about that. I know Old Top Gear was scripted to the inch (isn't this called "constructed reality"?) but who wrote which bits? Did Clarkson write all of it, or was it more distributed?FrancisUrquhart said:
It was VERY scripted. The fact you could tell, tells you all you need to know. Old Top Gear was also very very carefully scripted by an obsessive Clarkson, but the best episodes were often were you couldn't tell if / when the script stopped.SouthamObserver said:
I did not see it, but it strikes me that Le Blanc is an actor so can handle a script, Evans isn't, so can't.DecrepitJohnL said:
For me the problem was it was scripted as if for the old team, and if you make the comparisons across the two eras, Chris Evans is more like Richard Hammond on speed, with Matt Le Blanc closer to Jeremy Clarkson, delivering dry quips in a deeper voice.glw said:
Just finished watching that. It is utterly barmy if Harris is relegated to the web-only show, and they had the news bit, and Sabine actually got to say something, and Rory Reid seems good enough to be on the main show presenting it.FrancisUrquhart said:Extra Gear guys were better...not fantastic, but better.
There's actually the makings of a decent show that doesn't try to be the old Top Gear, if only the BBC hadn't handed the job to Chris Evans.
There's also the question of power distribution. It used to be obvious that Clarkson and May were in charge and Hammond the cheery sidekick (his verbal contributions for his first few seasons were almost exclusively agreeing with Clarkson), but after his accident and concomitant fanmail his value to the show was proven and he became more confident.
As for the Evans/LeBlanc incarnation: well, Joey's good, Evans OK but it does drag, and whilst not the disaster it's being depicted as, I still prefer the C/M/H version0 -
Another non-Tory, non-Londoner telling us exactly how the PM standing with the Labour mayor is going to be received by Tory Londoners. You'll have to excuse me if I don't take your word for it.CarlottaVance said:
As ever, I fear PB is over analysing things - going at them with a scanning electron microscope, when the voters will afford them a passing glance....MaxPB said:Have to say I think it is probably a misstep for the PM to campaign with Khan. Firstly it looks a little hypocritical given all that the PM said about him just weeks ago, and secondly there is still a lot of ill-feeling among Tory voters towards Khan.
They should have been speaking separately at the same event rather than appear together. It probably hurts the PM with London MPs who are looking at the rising red tide in London worrying about their majorities in 2020.
'I see Cameron was with Khan today at some rally for the EU'
How disgraceful after the statements Cameron made in the House of Commons at PMQs
'Oh, that's nice, much better if they get along than all that silly politics stuff....'0 -
No, it doesn't. It turns a pledge card PR event into Cameron/Saqid story about what they've said about each other. Total distraction.HYUFD said:
Perhaps but campaigning together gets double the publicity they would get campaigning alone, which is why they took the risk!Luckyguy1983 said:
Which is a good argument for campaigning separately, not together.HYUFD said:
True but if Khan can win London for Remain and Cameron the rest of the country Remain will win, Cameron will just have to deal with his divided party afterwardsMaxPB said:Have to say I think it is probably a misstep for the PM to campaign with Khan. Firstly it looks a little hypocritical given all that the PM said about him just weeks ago, and secondly there is still a lot of ill-feeling among Tory voters towards Khan.
They should have been speaking separately at the same event rather than appear together. It probably hurts the PM with London MPs who are looking at the rising red tide in London worrying about their majorities in 2020.0 -
There are not that many Tory Londoners left if recent elections are anything to go by! To win Remain needs a big turnout of London Labour which is why Khan will helpMaxPB said:
Another non-Tory, non-Londoner telling us exactly how the PM standing with the Labour mayor is going to be received by Tory Londoners. You'll have to excuse me if I don't take your word for it.CarlottaVance said:
As ever, I fear PB is over analysing things - going at them with a scanning electron microscope, when the voters will afford them a passing glance....MaxPB said:Have to say I think it is probably a misstep for the PM to campaign with Khan. Firstly it looks a little hypocritical given all that the PM said about him just weeks ago, and secondly there is still a lot of ill-feeling among Tory voters towards Khan.
They should have been speaking separately at the same event rather than appear together. It probably hurts the PM with London MPs who are looking at the rising red tide in London worrying about their majorities in 2020.
'I see Cameron was with Khan today at some rally for the EU'
How disgraceful after the statements Cameron made in the House of Commons at PMQs
'Oh, that's nice, much better if they get along than all that silly politics stuff....'0 -
Bill Cash considering a vote of no confidence in PM too
'Sir Bill said he wanted the leadership to correct some of its warnings about the implications of Brexit, but otherwise would send his letter'
He told the Telegraph: “I am certainly considering it. It is up to them. My powerful warning to them is get your act together, make sure that you put voters first and the country first.” '
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/david-cameron/news/75557/tory-mp-turns-pressure-0 -
I think people like harmony rather than discord, even between opponents (think Rhonda Rousey/Holly Holm).MaxPB said:
Another non-Tory, non-Londoner telling us exactly how the PM standing with the Labour mayor is going to be received by Tory Londoners. You'll have to excuse me if I don't take your word for it.CarlottaVance said:
As ever, I fear PB is over analysing things - going at them with a scanning electron microscope, when the voters will afford them a passing glance....MaxPB said:Have to say I think it is probably a misstep for the PM to campaign with Khan. Firstly it looks a little hypocritical given all that the PM said about him just weeks ago, and secondly there is still a lot of ill-feeling among Tory voters towards Khan.
They should have been speaking separately at the same event rather than appear together. It probably hurts the PM with London MPs who are looking at the rising red tide in London worrying about their majorities in 2020.
'I see Cameron was with Khan today at some rally for the EU'
How disgraceful after the statements Cameron made in the House of Commons at PMQs
'Oh, that's nice, much better if they get along than all that silly politics stuff....'0 -
Pledge card. I hate to be optimistic (not the dissapointment, the hope etc. etc.), but the release of a pledge card surely isn't the sign that all goes well for the BSE campaign.PlatoSaid said:
No, it doesn't. It turns a pledge card PR event into Cameron/Saqid story about what they've said about each other. Total distraction.HYUFD said:
Perhaps but campaigning together gets double the publicity they would get campaigning alone, which is why they took the risk!Luckyguy1983 said:
Which is a good argument for campaigning separately, not together.HYUFD said:
True but if Khan can win London for Remain and Cameron the rest of the country Remain will win, Cameron will just have to deal with his divided party afterwardsMaxPB said:Have to say I think it is probably a misstep for the PM to campaign with Khan. Firstly it looks a little hypocritical given all that the PM said about him just weeks ago, and secondly there is still a lot of ill-feeling among Tory voters towards Khan.
They should have been speaking separately at the same event rather than appear together. It probably hurts the PM with London MPs who are looking at the rising red tide in London worrying about their majorities in 2020.
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It reminds me of Mr Meeks expounding on how Tories feel about anything. We all have our peer groups of experience/viewpoint.MaxPB said:
Another non-Tory, non-Londoner telling us exactly how the PM standing with the Labour mayor is going to be received by Tory Londoners. You'll have to excuse me if I don't take your word for it.CarlottaVance said:
As ever, I fear PB is over analysing things - going at them with a scanning electron microscope, when the voters will afford them a passing glance....MaxPB said:Have to say I think it is probably a misstep for the PM to campaign with Khan. Firstly it looks a little hypocritical given all that the PM said about him just weeks ago, and secondly there is still a lot of ill-feeling among Tory voters towards Khan.
They should have been speaking separately at the same event rather than appear together. It probably hurts the PM with London MPs who are looking at the rising red tide in London worrying about their majorities in 2020.
'I see Cameron was with Khan today at some rally for the EU'
How disgraceful after the statements Cameron made in the House of Commons at PMQs
'Oh, that's nice, much better if they get along than all that silly politics stuff....'
As a former Tony voter, I didn't understand what it felt like to feel very hotly that someone had hi-jacked my Party. He was a winner - what was wrong with his detractors etc etc.
Now, I totally get it. I feel camaraderie with Old Labour here.0 -
Will we hear to today about the so far mythical third party, independent campaign for POTUS? As promised by Kristol on Sunday.
@BillKristol
Just a heads up over this holiday weekend: There will be an independent candidate--an impressive one, with a strong team and a real chance.
10:00 PM - 29 May 2016
This would certainly mean a rethink on the betting.
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The average voter will have a glance at the two standing together and listen for ten seconds and then switch off, they will not spend hours going over the backstory of what they have said about each other in an election campaignPlatoSaid said:
No, it doesn't. It turns a pledge card PR event into Cameron/Saqid story about what they've said about each other. Total distraction.HYUFD said:
Perhaps but campaigning together gets double the publicity they would get campaigning alone, which is why they took the risk!Luckyguy1983 said:
Which is a good argument for campaigning separately, not together.HYUFD said:
True but if Khan can win London for Remain and Cameron the rest of the country Remain will win, Cameron will just have to deal with his divided party afterwardsMaxPB said:Have to say I think it is probably a misstep for the PM to campaign with Khan. Firstly it looks a little hypocritical given all that the PM said about him just weeks ago, and secondly there is still a lot of ill-feeling among Tory voters towards Khan.
They should have been speaking separately at the same event rather than appear together. It probably hurts the PM with London MPs who are looking at the rising red tide in London worrying about their majorities in 2020.0 -
Can only take votes off Hillary surely.rottenborough said:Will we hear to today about the so far mythical third party, independent campaign for POTUS? As promised by Kristol on Sunday.
@BillKristol
Just a heads up over this holiday weekend: There will be an independent candidate--an impressive one, with a strong team and a real chance.
10:00 PM - 29 May 2016
This would certainly mean a rethink on the betting.0 -
By all accounts it was Clarkson and his school mate that wrote the overwhelming majority of scripts, came up with the stunt ideas etc etc etc.viewcode said:
I always wondered about that. I know Old Top Gear was scripted to the inch (isn't this called "constructed reality"?) but who wrote which bits? Did Clarkson write all of it, or was it more distributed?FrancisUrquhart said:
It was VERY scripted. The fact you could tell, tells you all you need to know. Old Top Gear was also very very carefully scripted by an obsessive Clarkson, but the best episodes were often were you couldn't tell if / when the script stopped.SouthamObserver said:
I did not see it, but it strikes me that Le Blanc is an actor so can handle a script, Evans isn't, so can't.DecrepitJohnL said:
For me the problem was it was scripted as if for the old team, and if you make the comparisons across the two eras, Chris Evans is more like Richard Hammond on speed, with Matt Le Blanc closer to Jeremy Clarkson, delivering dry quips in a deeper voice.glw said:
Just finished watching that. It is utterly barmy if Harris is relegated to the web-only show, and they had the news bit, and Sabine actually got to say something, and Rory Reid seems good enough to be on the main show presenting it.FrancisUrquhart said:Extra Gear guys were better...not fantastic, but better.
There's actually the makings of a decent show that doesn't try to be the old Top Gear, if only the BBC hadn't handed the job to Chris Evans.
There's also the question of power distribution. It used to be obvious that Clarkson and May were in charge and Hammond the cheery sidekick (his verbal contributions for his first few seasons were almost exclusively agreeing with Clarkson), but after his accident and concomitant fanmail his value to the show was proven and he became more confident.
As for the Evans/LeBlanc incarnation: well, Joey's good, Evans OK but it does drag, and whilst not the disaster it's being depicted as, I still prefer the C/M/H version0 -
Don't say you weren't warned. You will be hearing a lot about EUTIN after Remainers win the referendum. The end game is a Federal Europe let's be in no doubt so just stop the lies and admit it. The elite who evade and avoid tax will still do so and they know it. This is little people rules.....
"On Wednesday night, the European Union’s Economic and Monetary Affairs Committee quietly passed a chilling piece of legislation. It calls for every one of the 500 million people who live in the EU to be given a ‘European Taxpayer Identification Number’, or EUTIN for short. The official statement released by the Committee puts this move in the blandest terms possible, saying that the system will “serve as a basis for effective automatic exchange of information between member states’ tax administrations”.
"Yet what the EUTIN amounts to is the ability to track, record and monitor every earner across the European Union. If you receive a pay cheque anywhere between Blackpool and Bratislava, the European Union will monitor and record it."
"Tied up with EUTIN is new legislation that will prevent member states from setting their levels of corporation tax too far below those of other member states. It is a direct attack on competitiveness, designed to ensure that no country with a large financial sector (such as Britain), can make itself more attractive and successful as a place to do business."
"In a few short years, the EU will also be putting its hand into your pocket, and making sure that you take home even less of your salary. In return you get no tangible benefits or protection, but instead support a vast and bloated bureaucratic system, who exist only to impose more unwanted laws and taxes from across the sea – and we cannot throw them out as they are unelected"
http://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/fox-on-friday-the-eu-makes-a-stealthy-move-towards-common-european-taxation/0 -
Depends.Luckyguy1983 said:
Can only take votes off Hillary surely.rottenborough said:Will we hear to today about the so far mythical third party, independent campaign for POTUS? As promised by Kristol on Sunday.
@BillKristol
Just a heads up over this holiday weekend: There will be an independent candidate--an impressive one, with a strong team and a real chance.
10:00 PM - 29 May 2016
This would certainly mean a rethink on the betting.0
