politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After nearly a week without polls the sentiment on Betfair
Comments
-
It's been very widely covered:VapidBilge said:
Really? I don't remember that being that being pointed out. In fact, I actually quoted David Cameron saying that he would restrict immigration, but have blithely ignored that in preference to your made-up "facts".SouthamObserver said:
All those who supported Osborne's plans to eliminate the deficit by 2020/1 were supporting a plan reliant on high-levels of continued immigration from the EU. If they don't now support his plan, what are they proposing? Moving the target, raising taxes, more cuts in public spending, or what?VapidBilge said:
Excuse me?SouthamObserver said:
But, but, but ... Hitlerfoxinsoxuk said:SouthamObserver said:
Yep, Boris is so eaten up with concern about this issue that he has never taken any steps as either an MP or as London mayor to do anything about it.ydoethur said:
Consistency was never his long suit though was it? I seem to remember he used to talk a lot about the importance of family life and supporting marriage as well...SouthamObserver said:
It's great to see that Boris has suddenly discovered the earnings gap. But it's unclear how that squares with his oft-stated belief that very rich people should be paying even less tax than they do now.Paul_Bedfordshire said:You can wheel in as many of the great and good as you like but in a world where CEOs trough salaries 150* that of their employees (hat tip Boris) all the likes of Lagarde, Carney and Obama are seen as is mill owners trying to feed propaganda to further they and their Oligarchies nests.
Of course, like many Leavers on here, eight months ago Boris was a fully signed up supporter og government fiscal and economic policies predicated on EU membership and large scale immigration.
Considering the preponderance of Tories and Kippers on this board, where exactly are these Leavers who supported large scale immigration?
Remember this?
“I believe that will mean net migration to this country will be in the order of tens of thousands each year, o the best and brightest from around the world and those fleeing persecution. But with us, our borders will be under control and immigration will be at levels our country can manage. No ifs. No buts. That’s a promise we made to the British people, and it’s a promise we are keeping.”
And what exactly is wrong with cutting back on Labour's ludicrous overspending?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3341170/Migration-DOUBLE-Cameron-s-tens-thousands-target-tackle-deficit-amid-claims-PM-given-borders.html
0 -
Me? Attacking Cameron and Osborne.surbiton said:All these head banging Leavers attacking Cameron and Osborne: where have they been the last 6 years ?
0 -
More likely that pensioners are less likely to be screwed over by any negative effects of Brexit. Also fair to say that as a whole the older generation are less tolerant with regard to immigration.Blue_rog said:
It could be that the younger generation haven't had their optimism ground out of them - yet and feel that there's a chance to 'change the EU from the inside'CarlottaVance said:
Its one of the conundrums of the referendum - the older/risk averse in favour of change, the younger/adventurous in favour of the status quo.Cyclefree said:
It's an interesting chart. Does it mean that those with the longest experience of the EU are the ones most likely to vote Leave? Generally - and I realise this is a huge generalisation - the older you get the more risk-averse you are and, whatever else can be said for it, leaving the EU involves risk.MarqueeMark said:
How this will all shake out, goodness knows.....
I reckon a good 'Pensions scare Warning if Brexit' may be coming to us soon....that and moral blackmail 'think of your grand kids'.....0 -
On 24th June, the headline will be: It's the Labour voters wot won it !0
-
I love this argument from Leavers indignant because Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right to decide its own policy on migrants: i.e arguing for 'more Europe'.MarqueeMark said:
How exactly did Cameron stand up to the Germans when Merkel unilaterally opened the EU's borders to anyone who could get on a boat from Turkey? There was no democratic process there, no discussion with fellow EU members. They just did what Germany wanted - and fuck the rest of you...Scott_P said:
The curious thing about that argument, if you agree with it, is that Boris is proposing that instead of standing up to the Germans like Churchill we run away and hide.Plato_Says said:I wouldn't normally cite Heffer, however he's making the Boris point too. DT clearly thinks this is a winner with their readers.
It's bizarre
Which number Reich do you wish to ascribe that attitude to?
This really is turning out to be the most hilarious political contest I've ever seen.0 -
Be a good REMAINER - don't try to think!surbiton said:All these head banging Leavers attacking Cameron and Osborne: where have they been the last 6 years ?
Never remove your blinders!0 -
I wonder if some on the left are going to vote Leave precisely because it will destroy Cameron / Osborne, split the Tories and put a less middle ground Tory into No.10. There is a strong lefty case for Leave (as espoused by the RMT for example) that plays directly into domestic politics. A Leave vote is an opportunity for a moribund left to land a smashing blow on the Tories. I'm sure many will avail themselves of the opportunity.
Cameron has belatedly realised this hence pleading with Mirror readers.0 -
Interesting article today,Patrick said:If Leave do get it then one thing will indeed be truly different for the first time in ages - the plebs will have landed a meaningful blow on the establishment. We keep hearing about how pissed off voters are with the elites and the status quo everywhere, and the rise of AfD, Trump, Le Pen, UKIP etc. But these have not actually gained power anywhere or yet had a concrete result to crow about. The establishment and the status quo still win every time. A Leave vote would change that. It would shake the rotten and complacent EU to its core and prompt all sorts of ructions within. I think it would also somehow be a boon for Trump. Democracy is rotten unless it throws out the occasional two fingers to the slippery greased piglets who run our lives.
It is more important to Meeks to avoid letting some Tories he dislikes have a temporary ascendence than the future of our freedom. It is much more important to me to see the machine brought low by the ordinary people. I'm feeding off the fear these establishment shitbags emanate with their every breath.
reflecting what you say.
http://www.cityam.com/241068/the-decadence-of-europes-dismal-elites-is-fuelling-the-populist-surge-across-the-eu0 -
Not as funny as your No Tanks In Baghdad running commentary. Sorry Richard, but I can't take your handwaving seriously.Richard_Nabavi said:
I love this argument from Leavers indignant because Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right to decide its own policy on migrants: i.e arguing for 'more Europe'.MarqueeMark said:
How exactly did Cameron stand up to the Germans when Merkel unilaterally opened the EU's borders to anyone who could get on a boat from Turkey? There was no democratic process there, no discussion with fellow EU members. They just did what Germany wanted - and fuck the rest of you...Scott_P said:
The curious thing about that argument, if you agree with it, is that Boris is proposing that instead of standing up to the Germans like Churchill we run away and hide.Plato_Says said:I wouldn't normally cite Heffer, however he's making the Boris point too. DT clearly thinks this is a winner with their readers.
It's bizarre
Which number Reich do you wish to ascribe that attitude to?
This really is turning out to be the most hilarious political contest I've ever seen.0 -
From Boris down, Tory Leavers who a short while were praising government fiscal and economic policy to the hilt are now trashing it. Cameron cannot be trusted on the economy says the Leave side, George Osborne is a bully says Piri Patel, Remainers support a Fourth Reich says Boris. Where were they before?surbiton said:All these head banging Leavers attacking Cameron and Osborne: where have they been the last 6 years ?
0 -
Labour mate of mind is doing precisely that.Patrick said:
Cameron has belatedly realised this hence pleading with Mirror readers.
I wonder if some on the left are going to vote Leave precisely because it will destroy Cameron / Osborne, split the Tories and put a less middle ground Tory into No.10. There is a strong lefty case for Leave (as espoused by the RMT for example) that plays directly into domestic politics. A Leave vote is an opportunity for a moribund left to land a smashing blow on the Tories. I'm sure many will avail themselves of the opportunity.0 -
It risks the Mirror pointing out "This is how weak the Prime Minister has become. He has to write in the Mirror - a newspaper he would previously have looked down his snooty nose at - in order to beg for the votes of our readers in the Referendum. We can only speculate that without our readers' votes, Mr Cameron will be unceremoniously booted out of office by the end of June. We will leave it up to our readers whether this might influence their vote..."blackburn63 said:
Cameron has belatedly realised this hence pleading with Mirror readers.TonyE said:
I think it will be more about the demographic of those who choose to leave, which I think will be skewed heavily to the working class as opposed to the fairly asset rich middle class who have more to lose from potential changesSouthamObserver said:
Yep, those plucky billionaires, Tory cabinet ministers, and newspaper editors and owners sticking two fingers up at the Establishment. It's great to see.Patrick said:If Leave do get it then one thing will indeed be truly different for the first time in ages - the plebs will have landed a meaningful blow on the establishment. We keep hearing about how pissed off voters are with the elites and the status quo everywhere, and the rise of AfD, Trump, Le Pen, UKIP etc. But these have not actually gained power anywhere or yet had a concrete result to crow about. The establishment and the status quo still win every time. A Leave vote would change that. It would shake the rotten and complacent EU to its core and prompt all sorts of ructions within. I think it would also somehow be a boon for Trump. Democracy is rotten unless it throws out the occasional two fingers to the slippery greased piglets who run our lives.
It is more important to Meeks to avoid letting some Tories he dislikes have a temporary ascendence than the future of our freedom. It is much more important to me to see the machine brought low by the ordinary people. I'm feeding off the fear these establishment shitbags emanate with their every breath.0 -
What Merkel did was not to decide a policy for Germany, it was to decide one for all of Europe due to the implications and the geography.Richard_Nabavi said:
I love this argument from Leavers indignant because Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right to decide its own policy on migrants: i.e arguing for 'more Europe'.MarqueeMark said:
How exactly did Cameron stand up to the Germans when Merkel unilaterally opened the EU's borders to anyone who could get on a boat from Turkey? There was no democratic process there, no discussion with fellow EU members. They just did what Germany wanted - and fuck the rest of you...Scott_P said:
The curious thing about that argument, if you agree with it, is that Boris is proposing that instead of standing up to the Germans like Churchill we run away and hide.Plato_Says said:I wouldn't normally cite Heffer, however he's making the Boris point too. DT clearly thinks this is a winner with their readers.
It's bizarre
Which number Reich do you wish to ascribe that attitude to?
This really is turning out to be the most hilarious political contest I've ever seen.0 -
If IDS is correct ("we're not the govt, guv; it's up to them"), and if whoever is in power implements what many on here recommend, then I would imagine that the downtrodden masses (Upper Second, Balliol) will be surprised to say the least when, post a Leave vote, we head back in to EFTA/EEA.VapidBilge said:
Interesting article today,Patrick said:If Leave do get it then one thing will indeed be truly different for the first time in ages - the plebs will have landed a meaningful blow on the establishment. We keep hearing about how pissed off voters are with the elites and the status quo everywhere, and the rise of AfD, Trump, Le Pen, UKIP etc. But these have not actually gained power anywhere or yet had a concrete result to crow about. The establishment and the status quo still win every time. A Leave vote would change that. It would shake the rotten and complacent EU to its core and prompt all sorts of ructions within. I think it would also somehow be a boon for Trump. Democracy is rotten unless it throws out the occasional two fingers to the slippery greased piglets who run our lives.
It is more important to Meeks to avoid letting some Tories he dislikes have a temporary ascendence than the future of our freedom. It is much more important to me to see the machine brought low by the ordinary people. I'm feeding off the fear these establishment shitbags emanate with their every breath.
reflecting what you say.
http://www.cityam.com/241068/the-decadence-of-europes-dismal-elites-is-fuelling-the-populist-surge-across-the-eu0 -
I've been saying this on here for weeks, look at the Mirror today. They won't vote OUT, they'll abstain, which in effect is a vote for OUT. We keep being told Labour are pro Remain, but only if they vote.Plato_Says said:
Labour mate of mind is doing precisely that.Patrick said:
Cameron has belatedly realised this hence pleading with Mirror readers.
I wonder if some on the left are going to vote Leave precisely because it will destroy Cameron / Osborne, split the Tories and put a less middle ground Tory into No.10. There is a strong lefty case for Leave (as espoused by the RMT for example) that plays directly into domestic politics. A Leave vote is an opportunity for a moribund left to land a smashing blow on the Tories. I'm sure many will avail themselves of the opportunity.0 -
Except that's not what they did. They didn't just say people are welcome to just Germany and arrange transport or visas accordingly. Instead they opened the doors to the whole of continental Europe not just Germany and compelled Eastern European countries who didn't want to accept a share of migrants to do so.Richard_Nabavi said:
I love this argument from Leavers indignant because Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right to decide its own policy on migrants: i.e arguing for 'more Europe'.MarqueeMark said:
How exactly did Cameron stand up to the Germans when Merkel unilaterally opened the EU's borders to anyone who could get on a boat from Turkey? There was no democratic process there, no discussion with fellow EU members. They just did what Germany wanted - and fuck the rest of you...Scott_P said:
The curious thing about that argument, if you agree with it, is that Boris is proposing that instead of standing up to the Germans like Churchill we run away and hide.Plato_Says said:I wouldn't normally cite Heffer, however he's making the Boris point too. DT clearly thinks this is a winner with their readers.
It's bizarre
Which number Reich do you wish to ascribe that attitude to?
This really is turning out to be the most hilarious political contest I've ever seen.0 -
If we leave the EU, the EU's share of global GDP will be less than 13%. In the mid 1980s, the much smaller EU - just a dozen nations - had nearly 25% of world GDP.
It's in terminal decline in it's current form.
We're on the Aston Villa of economic models.0 -
Yes, one nation taking a decision affects other nations. This is true, for example in the 80s and 90s we were badly affected by acid rain from power stations built in northern Europe. That's the Eurocrats' argument for 'more Europe'. I'm just amused to see Leavers using it.TonyE said:What Merkel did was not to decide a policy for Germany, it was to decide one for all of Europe due to the implications and the geography.
0 -
Leave out to 3.5 now.0
-
As we are already EEA signatories, then it's a logical progression to join EFTA. The EFTA nations are not wholly satisfied with the EEA agreement, and as it gains in GDP strength with the UK entry, I would not expect this to be a static environment.TOPPING said:
If IDS is correct ("we're not the govt, guv; it's up to them"), and if whoever is in power implements what many on here recommend, then I would imagine that the downtrodden masses (Upper Second, Balliol) will be surprised to say the least when, post EUref, we head back in to EFTA/EEA.VapidBilge said:
Interesting article today,Patrick said:If Leave do get it then one thing will indeed be truly different for the first time in ages - the plebs will have landed a meaningful blow on the establishment. We keep hearing about how pissed off voters are with the elites and the status quo everywhere, and the rise of AfD, Trump, Le Pen, UKIP etc. But these have not actually gained power anywhere or yet had a concrete result to crow about. The establishment and the status quo still win every time. A Leave vote would change that. It would shake the rotten and complacent EU to its core and prompt all sorts of ructions within. I think it would also somehow be a boon for Trump. Democracy is rotten unless it throws out the occasional two fingers to the slippery greased piglets who run our lives.
It is more important to Meeks to avoid letting some Tories he dislikes have a temporary ascendence than the future of our freedom. It is much more important to me to see the machine brought low by the ordinary people. I'm feeding off the fear these establishment shitbags emanate with their every breath.
reflecting what you say.
http://www.cityam.com/241068/the-decadence-of-europes-dismal-elites-is-fuelling-the-populist-surge-across-the-eu0 -
I doubt raising Hitler's ghost has done us any favours either......OllyT said:
I think it's highly likely that our EU partners will be as difficult as possible if we Brexit partly because they will be pissed off at the abuse from Leavers, pissed off at the disruption caused but also to deter others who may consider following suit. Those banking on a quick and easy ride are taking a huge risk.Philip_Thompson said:
Of course he (or more likely Gove) would.OllyT said:
If Brexit wins Boris et al will surely be taking the lead in the negotiations and therefore the future direction of the country. To suggest otherwise is nonsense and if anyone tried to do otherwise there would rightly be howls of anger from the Leavers.ThreeQuidder said:
What has proved true is that your illogical decision has caused you to be increasingly swivel-eyed, both above and below the line.AlastairMeeks said:@ThreeQuidder Those people will get more influence by being part of the cabal that will take over the direction of this government. It's not complicated.
Will they get absolute power? No, thank goodness. But they would get far too much for my liking.
I made it clear some time ago that I would not be voting Leave because it was apparent that Leave was going to be dominated by people whose views I had no sympathy with whatsoever. And so it has proved.
A "cabal"? "Taking over the direction of the government"? Jesus wept.
If Leave win it has to be their show from then on. The negotiations should be a hoot given that the Leavers have insulted just about everyone they are going to be negotiating with. Having likened the EU to Hitler Boris is of course then going to negotiate a fabulous deal for us all from the EU.
There's no point crying over spilt milk. If we vote to Leave then our trading partners will have little choice but to respect that and make a deal because they'd want one too. Just as when we go into a General Election the reality is our partners will work with whoever we elect as PM and not just those they find agreeable.0 -
Oh, please. The German decision affected us all, without consultation.Richard_Nabavi said:
I love this argument from Leavers indignant because Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right to decide its own policy on migrants: i.e arguing for 'more Europe'.MarqueeMark said:
How exactly did Cameron stand up to the Germans when Merkel unilaterally opened the EU's borders to anyone who could get on a boat from Turkey? There was no democratic process there, no discussion with fellow EU members. They just did what Germany wanted - and fuck the rest of you...Scott_P said:
The curious thing about that argument, if you agree with it, is that Boris is proposing that instead of standing up to the Germans like Churchill we run away and hide.Plato_Says said:I wouldn't normally cite Heffer, however he's making the Boris point too. DT clearly thinks this is a winner with their readers.
It's bizarre
Which number Reich do you wish to ascribe that attitude to?
This really is turning out to be the most hilarious political contest I've ever seen.
If she really wanted to help refugees she would have airlifted them over from Turkey, not have them drown or thunder over neighbouring EU countries.
She also tried to strong arm other EU countries into taking them and helping with the costs of her folly.0 -
Of course there will be deals in order to allow UK/EU trade to continue. However, they are likely to be a lot less favourable than the current arrangements. Given the relative sizes of the UK and EU economies, we will be negotiating from a position of relative weakness and cannot ultimately hope for a deal anywhere near as good as what we achieved amongst equals. I also don't see that trade would be tariff-free. Why would we be entailed to special arrangements compared to other non-EEA states?runnymede said:
Indeed, everyone in the know (including the REMAIN side's leaders) is well aware that there will be a rapid deal between the UK and the EU after Brexit. It will preserve tariff-free trade and some aspects of free movement - but not all.Philip_Thompson said:
Of course he (or more likely Gove) would.OllyT said:
If Brexit wins Boris et al will surely be taking the lead in the negotiations and therefore the future direction of the country. To suggest otherwise is nonsense and if anyone tried to do otherwise there would rightly be howls of anger from the Leavers.ThreeQuidder said:
What has proved true is that your illogical decision has caused you to be increasingly swivel-eyed, both above and below the line.AlastairMeeks said:@ThreeQuidder Those people will get more influence by being part of the cabal that will take over the direction of this government. It's not complicated.
Will they get absolute power? No, thank goodness. But they would get far too much for my liking.
I made it clear some time ago that I would not be voting Leave because it was apparent that Leave was going to be dominated by people whose views I had no sympathy with whatsoever. And so it has proved.
A "cabal"? "Taking over the direction of the government"? Jesus wept.
If Leave win it has to be their show from then on. The negotiations should be a hoot given that the Leavers have insulted just about everyone they are going to be negotiating with. Having likened the EU to Hitler Boris is of course then going to negotiate a fabulous deal for us all from the EU.
There's no point crying over spilt milk. If we vote to Leave then our trading partners will have little choice but to respect that and make a deal because they'd want one too. Just as when we go into a General Election the reality is our partners will work with whoever we elect as PM and not just those they find agreeable.
We could have cut a deal like this any time in the last twenty-five years. It's only the reluctance of our own political and bureaucratic establishment to the will of the people - related to their desire to keep trying to pull the voters toward EU political integration (with the goodies that means for them) - that has prevented this.0 -
Rubbish there are plenty of us who have said his goal is completely unachievable without real spending cuts and to stop cossetting the bloody pensioners with the triple lock or at least weakening it to CPI inflation with a 1% floor.SouthamObserver said:All those who supported Osborne's plans to eliminate the deficit by 2020/1 were supporting a plan reliant on high-levels of continued immigration from the EU. If they don't now support his plan, what are they proposing? Moving the target, raising taxes, more cuts in public spending, or what?
You always ignore those of us opposed to Osborne and act as if we are all in favour of his inequitable spending programme.0 -
Becoming disillusioned, but remaining mostly loyal - being insulted by our Party leader changed things, a lot.SouthamObserver said:
From Boris down, Tory Leavers who a short while were praising government fiscal and economic policy to the hilt are now trashing it. Cameron cannot be trusted on the economy says the Leave side, George Osborne is a bully says Piri Patel, Remainers support a Fourth Reich says Boris. Where were they before?surbiton said:All these head banging Leavers attacking Cameron and Osborne: where have they been the last 6 years ?
0 -
Spot on. It was a tipping point for me. After that, Cameron had to comeback with some real, meaningful product from his renegotiation.TonyE said:
What Merkel did was not to decide a policy for Germany, it was to decide one for all of Europe due to the implications and the geography.Richard_Nabavi said:
I love this argument from Leavers indignant because Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right to decide its own policy on migrants: i.e arguing for 'more Europe'.MarqueeMark said:
How exactly did Cameron stand up to the Germans when Merkel unilaterally opened the EU's borders to anyone who could get on a boat from Turkey? There was no democratic process there, no discussion with fellow EU members. They just did what Germany wanted - and fuck the rest of you...Scott_P said:
The curious thing about that argument, if you agree with it, is that Boris is proposing that instead of standing up to the Germans like Churchill we run away and hide.Plato_Says said:I wouldn't normally cite Heffer, however he's making the Boris point too. DT clearly thinks this is a winner with their readers.
It's bizarre
Which number Reich do you wish to ascribe that attitude to?
This really is turning out to be the most hilarious political contest I've ever seen.
I'm sure Merkel would have been very sanguine if the UK had joined Schengen - then opened the borders to the whole of the Asian sub-continent...with no consultation in Brussels.0 -
Plato_Says said:
In Scotland the biggest block of LEAVE voters are SNP:Patrick said:
Cameron has belatedly realised this hence pleading with Mirror readers.
I wonder if some on the left are going to vote Leave precisely because it will destroy Cameron / Osborne, split the Tories and put a less middle ground Tory into No.10.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/scotland-blog/2016/may/12/eurosceptic-snp-voters-could-influence-eu-referendum-result-polling-data-shows
a significant minority of nationalists and yes voters see it as logically consistent to want Scotland to leave both unions – the UK and EU, and will vote that way in June.
A consistency that escapes the SNP leaderene....(tho not in fairness our resident turnip....)0 -
I've seen several Mirror opinion pieces advocating Leave. Don't read it enough to know the overall balance.MarqueeMark said:
It risks the Mirror pointing out "This is how weak the Prime Minister has become. He has to write in the Mirror - a newspaper he would previously have looked down his snooty nose at - in order to beg for the votes of our readers in the Referendum. We can only speculate that without our readers' votes, Mr Cameron will be unceremoniously booted out of office by the end of June. We will leave it up to our readers whether this might influence their vote..."blackburn63 said:
Cameron has belatedly realised this hence pleading with Mirror readers.TonyE said:
I think it will be more about the demographic of those who choose to leave, which I think will be skewed heavily to the working class as opposed to the fairly asset rich middle class who have more to lose from potential changesSouthamObserver said:
Yep, those plucky billionaires, Tory cabinet ministers, and newspaper editors and owners sticking two fingers up at the Establishment. It's great to see.Patrick said:If Leave do get it then one thing will indeed be truly different for the first time in ages - the plebs will have landed a meaningful blow on the establishment. We keep hearing about how pissed off voters are with the elites and the status quo everywhere, and the rise of AfD, Trump, Le Pen, UKIP etc. But these have not actually gained power anywhere or yet had a concrete result to crow about. The establishment and the status quo still win every time. A Leave vote would change that. It would shake the rotten and complacent EU to its core and prompt all sorts of ructions within. I think it would also somehow be a boon for Trump. Democracy is rotten unless it throws out the occasional two fingers to the slippery greased piglets who run our lives.
It is more important to Meeks to avoid letting some Tories he dislikes have a temporary ascendence than the future of our freedom. It is much more important to me to see the machine brought low by the ordinary people. I'm feeding off the fear these establishment shitbags emanate with their every breath.0 -
Richard_Nabavi said:
I love this argument from Leavers indignant because Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right to decide its own policy on migrants: i.e arguing for 'more Europe'.MarqueeMark said:
How exactly did Cameron stand up to the Germans when Merkel unilaterally opened the EU's borders to anyone who could get on a boat from Turkey? There was no democratic process there, no discussion with fellow EU members. They just did what Germany wanted - and fuck the rest of you...Scott_P said:
The curious thing about that argument, if you agree with it, is that Boris is proposing that instead of standing up to the Germans like Churchill we run away and hide.Plato_Says said:I wouldn't normally cite Heffer, however he's making the Boris point too. DT clearly thinks this is a winner with their readers.
It's bizarre
Which number Reich do you wish to ascribe that attitude to?
This really is turning out to be the most hilarious political contest I've ever seen.
You may think the shrinking of democracy in Europe "hilarious". Some of us find it profound.0 -
This is what the economics is really all about.chestnut said:If we leave the EU, the EU's share of global GDP will be less than 13%. In the mid 1980s, the much smaller EU - just a dozen nations - had nearly 25% of world GDP.
It's in terminal decline in it's current form.
Preferential trade arrangements are a dubious idea at best - perhaps the world's leading expert on international trade, Prof. Jagdish Bhaghwati, condemns them.
Preferential trade arrangements with a group of countries that are struggling to grow at 1% per annum are an even worse idea.
Preferential trade arrangements that also impose significant unnecessary regulatory costs on your own economy are a worse idea still.
Preferential trade arrangements that also threaten your continued judicial and political independence....
you get the picture0 -
Funny farms, lunatics. More fence sitting. Tell us what you really think of Leave.AlastairMeeks said:@ThreeQuidder If Leave win, the big question of the next few years is going to be the terms of disengagement from the EU. That inevitably is going to need to be led by those who can credibly speak for those who voted for that outcome. It is fanciful to imagine that those who voted for Leave are not going to be in the ascendant in those circumstances.
Unlike Cincinnatus, the Leave politicians are not going to return to their funny farms. The opposite - the lunatics are going to take over the asylum.0 -
Also amusing to see that Leavers cannot understand my point, which has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with whether Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right sensibly.VapidBilge said:
Oh, please. The German decision affected us all, without consultation.Richard_Nabavi said:
I love this argument from Leavers indignant because Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right to decide its own policy on migrants: i.e arguing for 'more Europe'.MarqueeMark said:
How exactly did Cameron stand up to the Germans when Merkel unilaterally opened the EU's borders to anyone who could get on a boat from Turkey? There was no democratic process there, no discussion with fellow EU members. They just did what Germany wanted - and fuck the rest of you...Scott_P said:
The curious thing about that argument, if you agree with it, is that Boris is proposing that instead of standing up to the Germans like Churchill we run away and hide.Plato_Says said:I wouldn't normally cite Heffer, however he's making the Boris point too. DT clearly thinks this is a winner with their readers.
It's bizarre
Which number Reich do you wish to ascribe that attitude to?
This really is turning out to be the most hilarious political contest I've ever seen.
If she really wanted to help refugees she would have airlifted them over from Turkey, not have them drown or thunder over neighbouring EU countries.
She also tried to strong arm other EU countries into taking them and helping with the costs of her folly.
What is it about hatred of the EU which addles the brain of people who are usually sensible? It is extraordinary.0 -
You might want to read the first line of what I wrote again.MaxPB said:
Rubbish there are plenty of us who have said his goal is completely unachievable without real spending cuts and to stop cossetting the bloody pensioners with the triple lock or at least weakening it to CPI inflation with a 1% floor.SouthamObserver said:All those who supported Osborne's plans to eliminate the deficit by 2020/1 were supporting a plan reliant on high-levels of continued immigration from the EU. If they don't now support his plan, what are they proposing? Moving the target, raising taxes, more cuts in public spending, or what?
You always ignore those of us opposed to Osborne and act as if we are all in favour of his inequitable spending programme.
0 -
But the difference is that Germany can then use its weight in the EU to pressure other nations into actions which they would not have agreed to independently, such as the Migrant resettlement program or the deal with Turkey. Also, it knows that it's external border is protected by other nations, who must first deal with the problems Germany has created. This gives it far too much lattitude without internal political consequences.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, one nation taking a decision affects other nations. This is true, for example in the 80s and 90s we were badly affected by acid rain from power stations built in northern Europe. That's the Eurocrats' argument for 'more Europe'. I'm just amused to see Leavers using it.TonyE said:What Merkel did was not to decide a policy for Germany, it was to decide one for all of Europe due to the implications and the geography.
0 -
What's undemocratic about the democratically-elected German government inviting migrants into Germany? Foolish, yes, but not undemocratic.MarqueeMark said:Richard_Nabavi said:
I love this argument from Leavers indignant because Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right to decide its own policy on migrants: i.e arguing for 'more Europe'.MarqueeMark said:
How exactly did Cameron stand up to the Germans when Merkel unilaterally opened the EU's borders to anyone who could get on a boat from Turkey? There was no democratic process there, no discussion with fellow EU members. They just did what Germany wanted - and fuck the rest of you...Scott_P said:
The curious thing about that argument, if you agree with it, is that Boris is proposing that instead of standing up to the Germans like Churchill we run away and hide.Plato_Says said:I wouldn't normally cite Heffer, however he's making the Boris point too. DT clearly thinks this is a winner with their readers.
It's bizarre
Which number Reich do you wish to ascribe that attitude to?
This really is turning out to be the most hilarious political contest I've ever seen.
You may think the shrinking of democracy in Europe "hilarious". Some of us find it profound.0 -
Ouch.chestnut said:If we leave the EU, the EU's share of global GDP will be less than 13%. In the mid 1980s, the much smaller EU - just a dozen nations - had nearly 25% of world GDP.
It's in terminal decline in it's current form.
We're on the Aston Villa of economic models.0 -
Yes, and I think you'll find that the vast majority of Osborne supporters are on the Remain side.SouthamObserver said:
You might want to read the first line of what I wrote again.MaxPB said:
Rubbish there are plenty of us who have said his goal is completely unachievable without real spending cuts and to stop cossetting the bloody pensioners with the triple lock or at least weakening it to CPI inflation with a 1% floor.SouthamObserver said:All those who supported Osborne's plans to eliminate the deficit by 2020/1 were supporting a plan reliant on high-levels of continued immigration from the EU. If they don't now support his plan, what are they proposing? Moving the target, raising taxes, more cuts in public spending, or what?
You always ignore those of us opposed to Osborne and act as if we are all in favour of his inequitable spending programme.0 -
Why did the German governmet not airlift them to Germany instead of inflicting their "Guests" on other countries..nowt democratic about that..it is called bullying0
-
Is your democracy European or National? Which takes priority? If Europe didn't decide this as a whole, how can the EU be democratic? Did the Greek MEPs agree to German policy?Richard_Nabavi said:
What's undemocratic about the democratically-elected German government inviting migrants into Germany? Foolish, yes, but not undemocratic.MarqueeMark said:Richard_Nabavi said:
I love this argument from Leavers indignant because Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right to decide its own policy on migrants: i.e arguing for 'more Europe'.MarqueeMark said:
How exactly did Cameron stand up to the Germans when Merkel unilaterally opened the EU's borders to anyone who could get on a boat from Turkey? There was no democratic process there, no discussion with fellow EU members. They just did what Germany wanted - and fuck the rest of you...Scott_P said:
The curious thing about that argument, if you agree with it, is that Boris is proposing that instead of standing up to the Germans like Churchill we run away and hide.Plato_Says said:I wouldn't normally cite Heffer, however he's making the Boris point too. DT clearly thinks this is a winner with their readers.
It's bizarre
Which number Reich do you wish to ascribe that attitude to?
This really is turning out to be the most hilarious political contest I've ever seen.
You may think the shrinking of democracy in Europe "hilarious". Some of us find it profound.
Your whole argument rests on a fallacy, that the EU is democratic. But then you turn it upside down by asserting that Germany should be able to exercise her sovereign rights. But how did the EU structure protect the sovereign rights of the Greeks or Italians who have been left in a terrible state.0 -
It is undemocratic if Germany invites immigrants to Germany to reverse its population decline but then finds too many are coming and tells other countries they must take some of the immigrants.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's undemocratic about the democratically-elected German government inviting migrants into Germany? Foolish, yes, but not undemocratic.MarqueeMark said:Richard_Nabavi said:
I love this argument from Leavers indignant because Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right to decide its own policy on migrants: i.e arguing for 'more Europe'.MarqueeMark said:
How exactly did Cameron stand up to the Germans when Merkel unilaterally opened the EU's borders to anyone who could get on a boat from Turkey? There was no democratic process there, no discussion with fellow EU members. They just did what Germany wanted - and fuck the rest of you...Scott_P said:
The curious thing about that argument, if you agree with it, is that Boris is proposing that instead of standing up to the Germans like Churchill we run away and hide.Plato_Says said:I wouldn't normally cite Heffer, however he's making the Boris point too. DT clearly thinks this is a winner with their readers.
It's bizarre
Which number Reich do you wish to ascribe that attitude to?
This really is turning out to be the most hilarious political contest I've ever seen.
You may think the shrinking of democracy in Europe "hilarious". Some of us find it profound.0 -
And then trying to force other countries to take them or face EU fines.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's undemocratic about the democratically-elected German government inviting migrants into Germany? Foolish, yes, but not undemocratic.MarqueeMark said:Richard_Nabavi said:
I love this argument from Leavers indignant because Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right to decide its own policy on migrants: i.e arguing for 'more Europe'.MarqueeMark said:
How exactly did Cameron stand up to the Germans when Merkel unilaterally opened the EU's borders to anyone who could get on a boat from Turkey? There was no democratic process there, no discussion with fellow EU members. They just did what Germany wanted - and fuck the rest of you...Scott_P said:
The curious thing about that argument, if you agree with it, is that Boris is proposing that instead of standing up to the Germans like Churchill we run away and hide.Plato_Says said:I wouldn't normally cite Heffer, however he's making the Boris point too. DT clearly thinks this is a winner with their readers.
It's bizarre
Which number Reich do you wish to ascribe that attitude to?
This really is turning out to be the most hilarious political contest I've ever seen.
You may think the shrinking of democracy in Europe "hilarious". Some of us find it profound.0 -
I think it's just a passion for self-governance. Nothing more sinister than that.midwinter said:
I can understand support for Brexit, what I find harder to comprehend is the almost religious fervour of SOME leavers. Its like the quest for the holy grail and, to me at least, its not a vote winner.Casino_Royale said:Frother, tin foil, headbanger, nutter, loon...
I've been hearing these words for almost 20 years. It hasn't stopped euroscepticism from growing.
Given that almost half the population supports Brexit I can only conclude that Remainers think that the half the population is mad. In which case, it's a wonder we can survive at all.
Maybe they'll take such beliefs to their grave, like Heseletine, even if the UK resoundingly rejects the EU.0 -
0
-
Because once in Germany, they were then in the greater Schengen area. There was surely a reasonable assumption by Schengen members when they signed up that they were governing the movement of THE EXISTING CITIZENS of the EU. If Slovenia had unilaterally decided to invite in the entire population of sub-Saharan Africa, do you think say France would have meekly acquiesced? But of course, Slovenia never would. But Germany has the brute strength to force it on the EU.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's undemocratic about the democratically-elected German government inviting migrants into Germany? Foolish, yes, but not undemocratic.MarqueeMark said:Richard_Nabavi said:
I love this argument from Leavers indignant because Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right to decide its own policy on migrants: i.e arguing for 'more Europe'.MarqueeMark said:
How exactly did Cameron stand up to the Germans when Merkel unilaterally opened the EU's borders to anyone who could get on a boat from Turkey? There was no democratic process there, no discussion with fellow EU members. They just did what Germany wanted - and fuck the rest of you...Scott_P said:
The curious thing about that argument, if you agree with it, is that Boris is proposing that instead of standing up to the Germans like Churchill we run away and hide.Plato_Says said:I wouldn't normally cite Heffer, however he's making the Boris point too. DT clearly thinks this is a winner with their readers.
It's bizarre
Which number Reich do you wish to ascribe that attitude to?
This really is turning out to be the most hilarious political contest I've ever seen.
You may think the shrinking of democracy in Europe "hilarious". Some of us find it profound.
It was also insane of Merkel because it encouraged a headlong rush towards Europe by untold millions, at their huge cost in dollars to smugglers and lives lost. Cameron was spot on with how to treat the Syrian crisis. It is to Merkel's eternal shame that she did not embrace his approach.0 -
Brilliant. So we don't need to worry about being able to negotiate those pesky trade deals after all? I thought a major leg of the Leave argument was that out of the EU we would be in a much better position to, er, negotiate free trade deals...runnymede said:
This is what the economics is really all about.chestnut said:If we leave the EU, the EU's share of global GDP will be less than 13%. In the mid 1980s, the much smaller EU - just a dozen nations - had nearly 25% of world GDP.
It's in terminal decline in it's current form.
Preferential trade arrangements are a dubious idea at best - perhaps the world's leading expert on international trade, Prof. Jagdish Bhaghwati, condemns them.
Preferential trade arrangements with a group of countries that are struggling to grow at 1% per annum are an even worse idea.
Preferential trade arrangements that also impose significant unnecessary regulatory costs on your own economy are a worse idea still.
Preferential trade arrangements that also threaten your continued judicial and political independence....
you get the picture0 -
I think that "vast" and "Osborne supporters" is likely to be seen less and less in the same sentence...unless he goes for the Weight-watchers vote in Idaho.MaxPB said:
Yes, and I think you'll find that the vast majority of Osborne supporters are on the Remain side.SouthamObserver said:
You might want to read the first line of what I wrote again.MaxPB said:
Rubbish there are plenty of us who have said his goal is completely unachievable without real spending cuts and to stop cossetting the bloody pensioners with the triple lock or at least weakening it to CPI inflation with a 1% floor.SouthamObserver said:All those who supported Osborne's plans to eliminate the deficit by 2020/1 were supporting a plan reliant on high-levels of continued immigration from the EU. If they don't now support his plan, what are they proposing? Moving the target, raising taxes, more cuts in public spending, or what?
You always ignore those of us opposed to Osborne and act as if we are all in favour of his inequitable spending programme.0 -
George Osborne: the Brexit campaign will next say we have fakes the moon landings, found Shergar and discovered the Loch Ness Monster0
-
Miss Plato, I think we'd all like to hear Tony Blair's views on the referendum...0
-
We can do if we want them.TOPPING said:
Brilliant. So we don't need to worry about being able to negotiate those pesky trade deals after all? I thought a major leg of the Leave argument was that out of the EU we would be in a much better position to, er, negotiate free trade deals...runnymede said:
This is what the economics is really all about.chestnut said:If we leave the EU, the EU's share of global GDP will be less than 13%. In the mid 1980s, the much smaller EU - just a dozen nations - had nearly 25% of world GDP.
It's in terminal decline in it's current form.
Preferential trade arrangements are a dubious idea at best - perhaps the world's leading expert on international trade, Prof. Jagdish Bhaghwati, condemns them.
Preferential trade arrangements with a group of countries that are struggling to grow at 1% per annum are an even worse idea.
Preferential trade arrangements that also impose significant unnecessary regulatory costs on your own economy are a worse idea still.
Preferential trade arrangements that also threaten your continued judicial and political independence....
you get the picture
Having the production team call the dog 'Nigger' was obviously in retrospect a mistake.Plato_Says said:For war film fans
https://twitter.com/PlatoSays/status/7321380553022709760 -
It shouldn't be. Tariffs are just not a 21st C problem in the main. It's the non tariff barriers that hold the key. These are best removed sector by sector at a global level rather than via bilateral or area trade deals.TOPPING said:
Brilliant. So we don't need to worry about being able to negotiate those pesky trade deals after all? I thought a major leg of the Leave argument was that out of the EU we would be in a much better position to, er, negotiate free trade deals...runnymede said:
This is what the economics is really all about.chestnut said:If we leave the EU, the EU's share of global GDP will be less than 13%. In the mid 1980s, the much smaller EU - just a dozen nations - had nearly 25% of world GDP.
It's in terminal decline in it's current form.
Preferential trade arrangements are a dubious idea at best - perhaps the world's leading expert on international trade, Prof. Jagdish Bhaghwati, condemns them.
Preferential trade arrangements with a group of countries that are struggling to grow at 1% per annum are an even worse idea.
Preferential trade arrangements that also impose significant unnecessary regulatory costs on your own economy are a worse idea still.
Preferential trade arrangements that also threaten your continued judicial and political independence....
you get the picture0 -
Well I think TSE and Richard N are both on the Remain side, can't think of many more than that!MarqueeMark said:
I think that "vast" and "Osborne supporters" is likely to be seen less and less in the same sentence...unless he goes for the Weight-watchers vote in Idaho.MaxPB said:
Yes, and I think you'll find that the vast majority of Osborne supporters are on the Remain side.SouthamObserver said:
You might want to read the first line of what I wrote again.MaxPB said:
Rubbish there are plenty of us who have said his goal is completely unachievable without real spending cuts and to stop cossetting the bloody pensioners with the triple lock or at least weakening it to CPI inflation with a 1% floor.SouthamObserver said:All those who supported Osborne's plans to eliminate the deficit by 2020/1 were supporting a plan reliant on high-levels of continued immigration from the EU. If they don't now support his plan, what are they proposing? Moving the target, raising taxes, more cuts in public spending, or what?
You always ignore those of us opposed to Osborne and act as if we are all in favour of his inequitable spending programme.0 -
The populace gave their endorsement of German policy at the Eurovision Song Contest. Oh wait....MaxPB said:
And then trying to force other countries to take them or face EU fines.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's undemocratic about the democratically-elected German government inviting migrants into Germany? Foolish, yes, but not undemocratic.MarqueeMark said:Richard_Nabavi said:
I love this argument from Leavers indignant because Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right to decide its own policy on migrants: i.e arguing for 'more Europe'.MarqueeMark said:
How exactly did Cameron stand up to the Germans when Merkel unilaterally opened the EU's borders to anyone who could get on a boat from Turkey? There was no democratic process there, no discussion with fellow EU members. They just did what Germany wanted - and fuck the rest of you...Scott_P said:
The curious thing about that argument, if you agree with it, is that Boris is proposing that instead of standing up to the Germans like Churchill we run away and hide.Plato_Says said:I wouldn't normally cite Heffer, however he's making the Boris point too. DT clearly thinks this is a winner with their readers.
It's bizarre
Which number Reich do you wish to ascribe that attitude to?
This really is turning out to be the most hilarious political contest I've ever seen.
You may think the shrinking of democracy in Europe "hilarious". Some of us find it profound.0 -
There are does already seem to be a concentration of people on the Brexit side who think that AGW is some sort of international hoax. Faking the moon landings would have been far easier.Plato_Says said:George Osborne: the Brexit campaign will next say we have fakes the moon landings, found Shergar and discovered the Loch Ness Monster
0 -
I'd agree with number 1 (Zulu) - but there are some classics (Kwai, Lawrence) too far down the list.....and who can forget the open shot of 'Where Eagles Dare'?Plato_Says said:For war film fans
twitter.com/PlatoSays/status/7321380553022709760 -
NEW THREAD NEW THREAD
0 -
Yup I'll give him that as one of his strongest abilities and continuous successes.surbiton said:
Lawson and Lamont were the biggest proponents of the ERM. Gordon Brown made sure Britain never entered the Eurozone by creating the 5 tests which could never be achieved.SouthamObserver said:
I seem to remember Lords Lawson and Lamont being quite involved in the ERM fiasco; while plenty of Remainers were opposed to the UK joining the Eurozone.Plato_Says said:Given how often the Great & Good have been wrong on the ERM, Euro, 2008 crash, forecasting in general - it'd be refreshing to understand why Remainers are so keen to believe them now.
Or are they just a fig-leaf for their own position?
What I find more puzzling is why so many Tory Leavers ever supported government fiscal and economic policies predicated on continued EU membership and high levels of EU immigration. Cabinet ministers lauded it, MPs cheered it, supporters sung its praises. How quickly things change.
He was always good at setting targets that couldn't be achieved.0 -
Jarman's War Requiem is arguably one of the best films, let alone war films, ever made.CarlottaVance said:
I'd agree with number 1 (Zulu) - but there are some classics (Kwai, Lawrence) too far down the list.....and who can forget the open shot of 'Where Eagles Dare'?Plato_Says said:For war film fans
twitter.com/PlatoSays/status/7321380553022709760 -
Free democracy:
Robert Peston – Verified account @Peston
Ryanair pilots and stewardesses told to cancel time off, put on uniforms and be in audience for today's Remain-in-EU event
1:33 a.m. - 16 May 20160 -
@RupertMyers: It's the sequel to the hardest ever edition of snog, marry, avoid: finance edition
With photo of Vince Cable, George Osborne & Ed Balls standing in front of a RyanAir jet in a hanger @ Stansted0 -
I'd broadly agree with that. Tariffs are still a problem in a few sectors, but NTBs are the big issue now. And the EU has quite a bad record with these e.g. the proliferation and misuse of anti-dumping investigations, regulatory barriers etc.TonyE said:
It shouldn't be. Tariffs are just not a 21st C problem in the main. It's the non tariff barriers that hold the key. These are best removed sector by sector at a global level rather than via bilateral or area trade deals.TOPPING said:
Brilliant. So we don't need to worry about being able to negotiate those pesky trade deals after all? I thought a major leg of the Leave argument was that out of the EU we would be in a much better position to, er, negotiate free trade deals...runnymede said:
This is what the economics is really all about.chestnut said:If we leave the EU, the EU's share of global GDP will be less than 13%. In the mid 1980s, the much smaller EU - just a dozen nations - had nearly 25% of world GDP.
It's in terminal decline in it's current form.
Preferential trade arrangements are a dubious idea at best - perhaps the world's leading expert on international trade, Prof. Jagdish Bhaghwati, condemns them.
Preferential trade arrangements with a group of countries that are struggling to grow at 1% per annum are an even worse idea.
Preferential trade arrangements that also impose significant unnecessary regulatory costs on your own economy are a worse idea still.
Preferential trade arrangements that also threaten your continued judicial and political independence....
you get the picture
0 -
0
-
Richard_Nabavi said:
"I love this argument from Leavers indignant because Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right to decide its own policy on migrants: i.e arguing for 'more Europe'.This really is turning out to be the most hilarious political contest I've ever seen."
I always tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but that view is just so out of left field it's ludicrous. Germany unilaterally said welcome and exercised its sovereign right over everyone else as a result.
Meanwhile hundreds die in the Med as a result, Schengen is abandoned and border fences are erected across Europe. Assaults on women go through the roof meanwhile there's riots in the streets. I would have said your views were just misguided. I actually now think they are not only dangerous but contrary to the well being and safety of this nation.
During my regular travels, There is an element of fear across Europe I have not detected previously and just about all because of that lunatic bloody woman Merkel.0 -
NEW THREAD0
-
I doubt it. Most Remainers are not Tories.MaxPB said:
Yes, and I think you'll find that the vast majority of Osborne supporters are on the Remain side.SouthamObserver said:
You might want to read the first line of what I wrote again.MaxPB said:
Rubbish there are plenty of us who have said his goal is completely unachievable without real spending cuts and to stop cossetting the bloody pensioners with the triple lock or at least weakening it to CPI inflation with a 1% floor.SouthamObserver said:All those who supported Osborne's plans to eliminate the deficit by 2020/1 were supporting a plan reliant on high-levels of continued immigration from the EU. If they don't now support his plan, what are they proposing? Moving the target, raising taxes, more cuts in public spending, or what?
You always ignore those of us opposed to Osborne and act as if we are all in favour of his inequitable spending programme.
0 -
Seriously?
Peston
.@vincecable just accused @BorisJohnson & @Nigel_Farage of "small condom" EU alarmism
.@edballs warns that leaving EU would see 17% increase in price of Adidas trainers0 -
Merkel is the EU though pulling the strings of unelected faceless bureaucrats about which I can do nothing let alone vote out of office.Richard_Nabavi said:
Also amusing to see that Leavers cannot understand my point, which has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with whether Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right sensibly.VapidBilge said:
Oh, please. The German decision affected us all, without consultation.Richard_Nabavi said:
I love this argument from Leavers indignant because Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right to decide its own policy on migrants: i.e arguing for 'more Europe'.MarqueeMark said:
How exactly did Cameron stand up to the Germans when Merkel unilaterally opened the EU's borders to anyone who could get on a boat from Turkey? There was no democratic process there, no discussion with fellow EU members. They just did what Germany wanted - and fuck the rest of you...Scott_P said:
The curious thing about that argument, if you agree with it, is that Boris is proposing that instead of standing up to the Germans like Churchill we run away and hide.Plato_Says said:I wouldn't normally cite Heffer, however he's making the Boris point too. DT clearly thinks this is a winner with their readers.
It's bizarre
Which number Reich do you wish to ascribe that attitude to?
This really is turning out to be the most hilarious political contest I've ever seen.
If she really wanted to help refugees she would have airlifted them over from Turkey, not have them drown or thunder over neighbouring EU countries.
She also tried to strong arm other EU countries into taking them and helping with the costs of her folly.
What is it about hatred of the EU which addles the brain of people who are usually sensible? It is extraordinary.
You just can't see it and to be honest you just don't seem to want too?0 -
They didn't though they invited them into all the other European countries as a result because that's where they are now!!! Even as far north as Sweden. They are also now unable to stop them coming. So much so that Turkey has threatened to open their borders if we don't do anything. To be honest I don't blame them.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's undemocratic about the democratically-elected German government inviting migrants into Germany? Foolish, yes, but not undemocratic.MarqueeMark said:Richard_Nabavi said:
I love this argument from Leavers indignant because Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right to decide its own policy on migrants: i.e arguing for 'more Europe'.MarqueeMark said:
How exactly did Cameron stand up to the Germans when Merkel unilaterally opened the EU's borders to anyone who could get on a boat from Turkey? There was no democratic process there, no discussion with fellow EU members. They just did what Germany wanted - and fuck the rest of you...Scott_P said:
The curious thing about that argument, if you agree with it, is that Boris is proposing that instead of standing up to the Germans like Churchill we run away and hide.Plato_Says said:I wouldn't normally cite Heffer, however he's making the Boris point too. DT clearly thinks this is a winner with their readers.
It's bizarre
Which number Reich do you wish to ascribe that attitude to?
This really is turning out to be the most hilarious political contest I've ever seen.
You may think the shrinking of democracy in Europe "hilarious". Some of us find it profound.
At least we are a step forward you referred to them as migrants within a few days we may get you to admit they are economic migrants that have crossed several safe countries to avail themselves of our hospitality, health service, benefits and housing.0 -
Interesting article here:Moses_ said:
They didn't though they invited them into all the other European countries as a result because that's where they are now!!! Even as far north as Sweden. They are also now unable to stop them coming. So much so that Turkey has threatened to open their borders if we don't do anything. To be honest I don't blame them.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's undemocratic about the democratically-elected German government inviting migrants into Germany? Foolish, yes, but not undemocratic.MarqueeMark said:Richard_Nabavi said:
I love this argument from Leavers indignant because Angela Merkel exercised Germany's sovereign right to decide its own policy on migrants: i.e arguing for 'more Europe'.MarqueeMark said:
How exactly did Cameron stand up to the Germans when Merkel unilaterally opened the EU's borders to anyone who could get on a boat from Turkey? There was no democratic process there, no discussion with fellow EU members. They just did what Germany wanted - and fuck the rest of you...Scott_P said:
The curious thing about that argument, if you agree with it, is that Boris is proposing that instead of standing up to the Germans like Churchill we run away and hide.Plato_Says said:I wouldn't normally cite Heffer, however he's making the Boris point too. DT clearly thinks this is a winner with their readers.
It's bizarre
Which number Reich do you wish to ascribe that attitude to?
This really is turning out to be the most hilarious political contest I've ever seen.
You may think the shrinking of democracy in Europe "hilarious". Some of us find it profound.
At least we are a step forward you referred to them as migrants within a few days we may get you to admit they are economic migrants that have crossed several safe countries to avail themselves of our hospitality, health service, benefits and housing.
Has Europe solved its crisis? Refugee arrivals to Greece have dropped by 90%
http://flip.it/9rSlM
Migrant arrivals down by 90% in Greece from last year, and down in Italy too. The deal with Turkey is working.-1 -
Kevin Schofield
Labour warned over anti-Semitism probe 'whitewash' after chair admits she is party member https://t.co/FNH8k99Cmu https://t.co/51ddVlGOuJ0 -
So who made the video? Was it the BSE campaign? Perhaps Downing Street? Nope, it was actually made in Brussels, by the Wilfred Martens Centre for European Studies. They are a think tank for the European People’s Party, both organisations have no UK representatives. And here’s the kicker: the Centre receives 100% of its funding from the European Parliament, some €4.2 million in 2014 alone.
http://order-order.com/2016/05/16/eus-taxpayer-funded-referendum-intervention/
How much taxpayer cash did they spend on this high production value video? And how much did they spend on promotion for it to achieve 100,000 views in just ten days? This is the EU directly interfering in a British referendum using British voters’ money…0 -
![[Deleted User]](https://wd.vanillicon.com/d2ea526b1b06ed109333f390c7ae956b_100.png)
