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  • MarqueeMark
    MarqueeMark Posts: 55,459
    bigjohnowls said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    When Khan wins, will it be spun as a big victory for Corbynism?

    It is pretty clear that Khan is opposed to Corbynism, despite being one of the guilty who got him onto the ballot paper.

    I know, but if Corbyn loses council seats they will need something to point to as good news and evidence that the Corbyn Project is on track. Tricky.

    Corbyn took credit for Oldham, despite giving the campaign a wide berth.

    Ranty Mann and his petrol can has made it easy to identify a reason for poor performance
    Perhaps he could better be called "Candy Mann"? Just call his name three times....
  • rcs1000
    rcs1000 Posts: 60,717
    edited April 2016
    blackburn63 said:


    You're looking at this through the eyes of a conservative, get into the mind of the WWC in Barnsley or Widnes. They've never heard of EEA or EFTA, they flirt with Ukip but vote labour, wouldn't vote conservative if you paid them.

    This has to get nasty, ask Crosby about his attacks on Miliband.

    The WWC in Barnsley or Widnes is not enough on it's own either.

    The message undecided voters are hearing right now is that "Brexit will get unemployment immigration down, but at the cost of my wallet."

  • Bob__Sykes
    Bob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    No surprises on the London poll really.

    Labour should win an election for a Greater London mayor every single time, so the fact a Tory has won the last two elections shows how an engaging, cross-political figure will mop up the disengaged or non-committed. Zac Goldsmith was clearly not that man.

    After Livingstone and Boris, two big hitter, high profile, blow their own trumpet leaders and figureheads for the metropolis, it looks like the post will revert from now on to being filled by dull, uninspiring and largely invisible Labour functionaries. I just don't see Khan having the box office draw that Boris and Ken had whilst in the job. Shame, but I'm not a Londoner and I don't really care much. But it was fun enjoying the Ken and Boris years as an outside observer!
  • Indigo
    Indigo Posts: 9,966
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pauly said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Real project fear from Nigel Farage.

    Nasty, nasty man, no wonder whenever the people have a chance to elect him as an MP, they reject him every time.

    What did he say that is nasty? At least put forward an argument with you know, some evidence or quotes...
    "if you vote to remain you are voting to go into political union with Turkey"

    or

    "Mrs Merkel now supports political union with Turkey, like David Cameron always has"

    I mean really? really
    I am almost certain he could produce at least quotes if not documentation to support that view. People on here have been questioning the wisdom of Cameron's flirting with Turkey for some while now.
    I'll be quite interested to see a link with David Cameron saying he supports a political union with Turkey.
    We are even paying for it.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/david-cameron-accused-of-risking-national-security-by-helping-fu/
  • oxfordsimon
    oxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    taffys said:

    Mehdi Hasan has written a brave article about muslim racism and bigotry in the New Statesman.

    Good on him.

    He wrote that back in 2013 - and it has just resurfaced.
  • Innocent_Abroad
    Innocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    williamglenn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pauly said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Real project fear from Nigel Farage.

    Nasty, nasty man, no wonder whenever the people have a chance to elect him as an MP, they reject him every time.

    What did he say that is nasty? At least put forward an argument with you know, some evidence or quotes...
    "if you vote to remain you are voting to go into political union with Turkey"

    or

    "Mrs Merkel now supports political union with Turkey, like David Cameron always has"

    I mean really? really
    "I used to be afraid of a German dominated Europe; now I'm afraid of a Turkish dominated Europe."
    God has just realised He got the result of the Great War wrong.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pauly said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Real project fear from Nigel Farage.

    Nasty, nasty man, no wonder whenever the people have a chance to elect him as an MP, they reject him every time.

    What did he say that is nasty? At least put forward an argument with you know, some evidence or quotes...
    "if you vote to remain you are voting to go into political union with Turkey"

    or

    "Mrs Merkel now supports political union with Turkey, like David Cameron always has"

    I mean really? really
    I am almost certain he could produce at least quotes if not documentation to support that view. People on here have been questioning the wisdom of Cameron's flirting with Turkey for some while now.
    I'll be quite interested to see a link with David Cameron saying he supports a political union with Turkey.
    We are even paying for it.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/david-cameron-accused-of-risking-national-security-by-helping-fu/
    So no evidence of Cameron wanting us be in a political union with Turkey.

    Thanks for clearing that up, more evidence Farage was talking bollocks and engaging in Project Fear.
  • blackburn63
    blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pauly said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Real project fear from Nigel Farage.

    Nasty, nasty man, no wonder whenever the people have a chance to elect him as an MP, they reject him every time.

    What did he say that is nasty? At least put forward an argument with you know, some evidence or quotes...
    "if you vote to remain you are voting to go into political union with Turkey"

    or

    "Mrs Merkel now supports political union with Turkey, like David Cameron always has"

    I mean really? really
    I am almost certain he could produce at least quotes if not documentation to support that view. People on here have been questioning the wisdom of Cameron's flirting with Turkey for some while now.
    I'll be quite interested to see a link with David Cameron saying he supports a political union with Turkey.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11283924/David-Cameron-I-still-want-Turkey-to-join-EU-despite-migrant-fears.html
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    blackburn63 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pauly said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Real project fear from Nigel Farage.

    Nasty, nasty man, no wonder whenever the people have a chance to elect him as an MP, they reject him every time.

    What did he say that is nasty? At least put forward an argument with you know, some evidence or quotes...
    "if you vote to remain you are voting to go into political union with Turkey"

    or

    "Mrs Merkel now supports political union with Turkey, like David Cameron always has"

    I mean really? really
    I am almost certain he could produce at least quotes if not documentation to support that view. People on here have been questioning the wisdom of Cameron's flirting with Turkey for some while now.
    I'll be quite interested to see a link with David Cameron saying he supports a political union with Turkey.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11283924/David-Cameron-I-still-want-Turkey-to-join-EU-despite-migrant-fears.html
    Again, so no evidence of Cameron wanting us be in a political union with Turkey.

    Thanks for clearing that up, more evidence Farage was talking bollocks and engaging in Project Fear.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,728
    edited April 2016
    CarlottaVance said:

    Ken.....heading for Australia (when in a hole...)

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/ken-livingstone-sticks-to-his-guns-and-insists-ive-not-said-anything-wrong-a3236666.html

    Has he been on the booze again?

    “Everything I said yesterday was true and I will be presenting the academic book about that to the Labour Party inquiry,” he said.

    Mr Livingstone’s defence is expected to rest on the writings of a controversial American Marxist historian Lenni Brenner, who claims there was collusion between the Nazis and early campaigners for a Jewish homeland.
  • Indigo
    Indigo Posts: 9,966
    edited April 2016
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pauly said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Real project fear from Nigel Farage.

    Nasty, nasty man, no wonder whenever the people have a chance to elect him as an MP, they reject him every time.

    What did he say that is nasty? At least put forward an argument with you know, some evidence or quotes...
    "if you vote to remain you are voting to go into political union with Turkey"

    or

    "Mrs Merkel now supports political union with Turkey, like David Cameron always has"

    I mean really? really
    I am almost certain he could produce at least quotes if not documentation to support that view. People on here have been questioning the wisdom of Cameron's flirting with Turkey for some while now.
    I'll be quite interested to see a link with David Cameron saying he supports a political union with Turkey.
    We are even paying for it.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/david-cameron-accused-of-risking-national-security-by-helping-fu/
    So no evidence of Cameron wanting us be in a political union with Turkey.

    Thanks for clearing that up, more evidence Farage was talking bollocks and engaging in Project Fear.
    So we are paying for Turkey to join the EU and that isn't political union with us ? There I was thinking there was a EU parliament as well.

    You are sounding nervous, so you detect a message cutting through ?
  • Alistair
    Alistair Posts: 23,670
    oxfordsimon said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    This cannot be correct, can it?

    As of August 1, every child in Scotland from birth to 18 will have a 'named person' who is responsible for their 'well being'. That person can access the child's medical records and those of their family without permission from the family and share information with other agencies without permission from the parents.
    From conception to school age, the named person will be a health visitor, from 5 to 18 it will be a head teacher or other senior teacher - except at weekends and during school holidays when it will be a council employee.
    Children can be interviewed without the permission of their parents but any notes will not be made available to parents to protect the confidentiality of the child.

    FFS

    It appears to be absolutely correct. And is a very, very scary step.

    Very scary indeed. Given the (at best) patchy history of schools and social workers dealing with warning signs, this is going to lead to massive problems and families either being ripped apart by over-zealous 'named persons' or abuse being missed/ignored because people don't want to engage because of 'cultural sensitivities'

    Children will suffer as a result of this
    It's been operating in some local council areas for some time. Reports of child suffering have not unduly increased.
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited April 2016
    Latest Ashcroft focus group:

    http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/04/lord-ashcroft-my-second-focus-group-on-the-eu-referendum.html

    President Obama’s visit was the week’s big news. Did anything stand out? “He saw Prince George in his dressing gown.” “I thought he was here for the Queen’s birthday.” Did he say anything about the referendum? “I know he mentioned it but I can’t remember what he said now.” So much for the game-changing moment.

    In fact, most participants had heard what the president said, few complained about him giving his view (“he was asked a question – if he’s got an opinion, he can give it”), and for some it carried weight: “For him to say England would be at the back of the queue is very, very significant. He said it would put us back ten years.”

    But most were not swayed, usually because they did not feel he had Britain’s welfare at heart, or resented what seemed like “bullying”:
  • williamglenn
    williamglenn Posts: 56,290
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pauly said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Real project fear from Nigel Farage.

    Nasty, nasty man, no wonder whenever the people have a chance to elect him as an MP, they reject him every time.

    What did he say that is nasty? At least put forward an argument with you know, some evidence or quotes...
    "if you vote to remain you are voting to go into political union with Turkey"

    or

    "Mrs Merkel now supports political union with Turkey, like David Cameron always has"

    I mean really? really
    I am almost certain he could produce at least quotes if not documentation to support that view. People on here have been questioning the wisdom of Cameron's flirting with Turkey for some while now.
    I'll be quite interested to see a link with David Cameron saying he supports a political union with Turkey.
    As much as I disagree with Farage's stance I don't think that comment is far wrong. The EU is a political union and Cameron supports Turkish membership.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10773007

    David Cameron has strongly supported Turkey's application to join the European Union on a visit to the country.

    Speaking in Ankara, the Prime Minister said that he was "angry" at the lack of progress in the negotiations.

    He said that the UK will do everything it can to help Turkey "pave the road from Ankara to Brussels".
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pauly said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Real project fear from Nigel Farage.

    Nasty, nasty man, no wonder whenever the people have a chance to elect him as an MP, they reject him every time.

    What did he say that is nasty? At least put forward an argument with you know, some evidence or quotes...
    "if you vote to remain you are voting to go into political union with Turkey"

    or

    "Mrs Merkel now supports political union with Turkey, like David Cameron always has"

    I mean really? really
    I am almost certain he could produce at least quotes if not documentation to support that view. People on here have been questioning the wisdom of Cameron's flirting with Turkey for some while now.
    Sky using a great passport brandishing clip from Nigel. Neatly sums up what it means and the whole EU/not British decision on who can come here.
  • MarqueeMark
    MarqueeMark Posts: 55,459
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Hampstead Poster Watch:

    Two "In" posters
    One "GO" poster, which I'd assumed was Grassroots Out, but seems to actually be "David Cameron Must GO"

    Nothing about the Mayoral election.

    You should have looked closer, the poster said

    "David Cameron must GO ON being PM"
    TSE, you are Mrs Doyle and I claim my five pounds and a cup of tea.

    Go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on......
  • blackburn63
    blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:


    You're looking at this through the eyes of a conservative, get into the mind of the WWC in Barnsley or Widnes. They've never heard of EEA or EFTA, they flirt with Ukip but vote labour, wouldn't vote conservative if you paid them.

    This has to get nasty, ask Crosby about his attacks on Miliband.

    The WWC in Barnsley or Widnes is not enough on it's own either.

    The message undecided voters are hearing right now is that "Brexit will get unemployment immigration down, but at the cost of my wallet."

    There are millions of labour voters, we're told they are pro EU. They may well be but they have to vote, any abstention from them is a vote for Leave.

    Cameron is relying on people that hate him supporting him.
  • Pauly
    Pauly Posts: 897
    edited April 2016
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pauly said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Real project fear from Nigel Farage.

    Nasty, nasty man, no wonder whenever the people have a chance to elect him as an MP, they reject him every time.

    What did he say that is nasty? At least put forward an argument with you know, some evidence or quotes...
    "if you vote to remain you are voting to go into political union with Turkey"

    or

    "Mrs Merkel now supports political union with Turkey, like David Cameron always has"

    I mean really? really
    I am almost certain he could produce at least quotes if not documentation to support that view. People on here have been questioning the wisdom of Cameron's flirting with Turkey for some while now.
    I'll be quite interested to see a link with David Cameron saying he supports a political union with Turkey.
    We are even paying for it.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/david-cameron-accused-of-risking-national-security-by-helping-fu/
    So no evidence of Cameron wanting us be in a political union with Turkey.

    Thanks for clearing that up, more evidence Farage was talking bollocks and engaging in Project Fear.
    What about this? It's pretty damning:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10773007
    You my friend, are in denial.
  • Indigo
    Indigo Posts: 9,966
    edited April 2016
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Thanks for clearing that up, more evidence Farage was talking bollocks and engaging in Project Fear.

    Bwhahahahah

    A Tory member, and Remain campaigner has the front to come here and accuse others of Project Fear, that is seriously rich.

    "They don't like it up'em Capn Mainwaring"
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Sean_F said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sean_F said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Looks like Farage/UKIP/Leave.EU have been rebuffed by Vote Leave and they will campaign on their own, on immigration.

    and is that a problem in the battle for non-Conservative voters?
    Anyone who is voting on immigration is already voting Leave, all it does it firm up Remain/floating voters.
    Yet, Farage has better ratings among the public than Cameron.
    He also had better ratings than Cameron during the last parliament. How'd that turn out?
    It doesn't matter if Farage gets elected. It's how many votes he brings in on 23rd June that counts. My guess, he'll bring in quite a large number.
    If the 20% ish Kipper vote from the last poll is near accurate - that's c6m?
  • taffys
    taffys Posts: 9,753
    blackburn63 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:


    You're looking at this through the eyes of a conservative, get into the mind of the WWC in Barnsley or Widnes. They've never heard of EEA or EFTA, they flirt with Ukip but vote labour, wouldn't vote conservative if you paid them.

    This has to get nasty, ask Crosby about his attacks on Miliband.

    The WWC in Barnsley or Widnes is not enough on it's own either.

    The message undecided voters are hearing right now is that "Brexit will get unemployment immigration down, but at the cost of my wallet."

    There are millions of labour voters, we're told they are pro EU. They may well be but they have to vote, any abstention from them is a vote for Leave.

    Cameron is relying on people that hate him supporting him.
    I just don;t believe this army of labour remain voters exists. Its a phantom.
  • oxfordsimon
    oxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    Alistair said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    This cannot be correct, can it?

    As of August 1, every child in Scotland from birth to 18 will have a 'named person' who is responsible for their 'well being'. That person can access the child's medical records and those of their family without permission from the family and share information with other agencies without permission from the parents.
    From conception to school age, the named person will be a health visitor, from 5 to 18 it will be a head teacher or other senior teacher - except at weekends and during school holidays when it will be a council employee.
    Children can be interviewed without the permission of their parents but any notes will not be made available to parents to protect the confidentiality of the child.

    FFS

    It appears to be absolutely correct. And is a very, very scary step.

    Very scary indeed. Given the (at best) patchy history of schools and social workers dealing with warning signs, this is going to lead to massive problems and families either being ripped apart by over-zealous 'named persons' or abuse being missed/ignored because people don't want to engage because of 'cultural sensitivities'

    Children will suffer as a result of this
    It's been operating in some local council areas for some time. Reports of child suffering have not unduly increased.
    'Not unduly' - so you are saying that they have increased - just not by a huge amount.

    As far as I am concerned, any policy that increases child suffering is a bad one.

    And just because it isn't reported, it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

    The state should be there to support (where absolutely necessary)- not interfere or control. But the SNP clearly have a very different (and more regressive) world view.
  • TOPPING
    TOPPING Posts: 44,060
    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    hunchman said:

    EU conducting military training exercises in preparation for the coming civil unrest:

    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/europes-current-economy/eu-conducts-military-exercises-based-on-civil-war-theories/

    Would the remain campaign and the remain apologists on here like to confirm that this is true? Is this really the kind of European Union that the UK should wish to remain a member of?

    As I said yesterday, when the going gets tough for governments such as now, throughout history they always turn AGAINST the people.

    Yes, the EU army in the Europe, and the black UN helicopters in the US are preparing for a military coup.

    Cuckoo.
    Are you watching BBG atm Robert?
    As in Bloomberg TV? I only watch it when I'm on it :lol:
    Ha! Was a good Brexit debate.
  • felix
    felix Posts: 15,180
    SouthamObserver said:

    This cannot be correct, can it?

    As of August 1, every child in Scotland from birth to 18 will have a 'named person' who is responsible for their 'well being'. That person can access the child's medical records and those of their family without permission from the family and share information with other agencies without permission from the parents.
    From conception to school age, the named person will be a health visitor, from 5 to 18 it will be a head teacher or other senior teacher - except at weekends and during school holidays when it will be a council employee.
    Children can be interviewed without the permission of their parents but any notes will not be made available to parents to protect the confidentiality of the child.

    FFS

    Yes it is true. This one of many reasons why the thought of a Lab/SNP coalition in the UK is enough to ensure the Tories remain likely to win in 2020 - despite all the EU nonsense.
  • logical_song
    logical_song Posts: 10,082
    Sean_F said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Looks like Farage/UKIP/Leave.EU have been rebuffed by Vote Leave and they will campaign on their own, on immigration.

    and is that a problem in the battle for non-Conservative voters?
    Anyone who is voting on immigration is already voting Leave, all it does it firm up Remain/floating voters.
    Yet, Farage has better ratings among the public than Cameron.
    Farage has better ratings as the leader of UKIP. Camerons ratings are as leader of the Conservatives and PM.
  • Bob__Sykes
    Bob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Looks like Farage/UKIP/Leave.EU have been rebuffed by Vote Leave and they will campaign on their own, on immigration.

    and is that a problem in the battle for non-Conservative voters?
    Anyone who is voting on immigration is already voting Leave, all it does it firm up Remain/floating voters.
    One suspects that if we do leave, and inevitably join EFTA (or participate in the EEA in some form), then there are going to be a lot of angry Leave voters who continue to see free movement.

    I did download and have read the pithy little book by Gerard Lyons ("The UK Referendum - an easy guide to leaving the EU"). He makes a good case, and I am emotionally attracted to it, but the fatal flaw is that, like other Vote Leave backers, he seems to assume if we leave we can stand free of the EU, EFTA, the EEA and rely on the WTO rules and our own negotiated trade deals, and basically trade into the EU like other "outsiders" such as the US or China do. This is superficially fine, but he can't promise us that. No Vote Leave campaigner can, because they won't be the ones running the country - it's not a General Election, and I very strongly feel that Cameron (unless deposed) would give us the EFTA model. Would any replacement Tory leader, or indeed Corbyn or Labour alternative PM if the Government collapses, go down the Lyons route?

    How on earth can voting Leave be anything other than a great leap in the dark? Or be a vote based on a false prospectus?
  • chestnut
    chestnut Posts: 7,341
    Greens are putting in an effort in my ward. Two door knocks, several bits of paper. I've seen a Tory wandering around, but no contact. Lib, Lab, UKIP invisible.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    edited April 2016
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/725990918264897537
  • blackburn63
    blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    blackburn63 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pauly said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Real project fear from Nigel Farage.

    Nasty, nasty man, no wonder whenever the people have a chance to elect him as an MP, they reject him every time.

    What did he say that is nasty? At least put forward an argument with you know, some evidence or quotes...
    "if you vote to remain you are voting to go into political union with Turkey"

    or

    "Mrs Merkel now supports political union with Turkey, like David Cameron always has"

    I mean really? really
    I am almost certain he could produce at least quotes if not documentation to support that view. People on here have been questioning the wisdom of Cameron's flirting with Turkey for some while now.
    I'll be quite interested to see a link with David Cameron saying he supports a political union with Turkey.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11283924/David-Cameron-I-still-want-Turkey-to-join-EU-despite-migrant-fears.html
    Again, so no evidence of Cameron wanting us be in a political union with Turkey.

    Thanks for clearing that up, more evidence Farage was talking bollocks and engaging in Project Fear.
    You didn't read that did you? You couldn't have done in the time you posted.

    I'll help you out, Cameron says Turkey is "vital" to us.

    Vital: absolutely necessary; essential.

    Keep digging fan boy.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Thanks for clearing that up, more evidence Farage was talking bollocks and engaging in Project Fear.

    Bwhahahahah

    A Tory member, and Remain campaigner has the front to come here and accuse others of Project Fear, that is seriously rich.

    "They don't like it up'em Capn Mainwaring"
    Are you calling me a Fuzzy Wuzzy?

    Leavers using racially charged terms.

    Say it ain't so :lol:
  • MarqueeMark
    MarqueeMark Posts: 55,459
    blackburn63 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:


    You're looking at this through the eyes of a conservative, get into the mind of the WWC in Barnsley or Widnes. They've never heard of EEA or EFTA, they flirt with Ukip but vote labour, wouldn't vote conservative if you paid them.

    This has to get nasty, ask Crosby about his attacks on Miliband.

    The WWC in Barnsley or Widnes is not enough on it's own either.

    The message undecided voters are hearing right now is that "Brexit will get unemployment immigration down, but at the cost of my wallet."

    There are millions of labour voters, we're told they are pro EU. They may well be but they have to vote, any abstention from them is a vote for Leave.

    Cameron is relying on people that hate him supporting him.
    An image of Cameron and Osborne, giggling together at PMQs with tag line:

    "This pair are depending on your help to get them out a hole.

    Show you care. VOTE LEAVE."
  • oxfordsimon
    oxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    chestnut said:

    Greens are putting in an effort in my ward. Two door knocks, several bits of paper. I've seen a Tory wandering around, but no contact. Lib, Lab, UKIP invisible.

    Always amuses me when the Greens put out a lot of printed material. I know they will always use recycled stock - but it just amuses me to see the amount of paper they will get through
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,728
    edited April 2016
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    twitter.com/YouGov/status/725990918264897537

    I blame it on the influx of foreign footballers, with their poncy boots continental names like 'enry and Czssss-ola.
  • Indigo
    Indigo Posts: 9,966
    Bob__Sykes said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Looks like Farage/UKIP/Leave.EU have been rebuffed by Vote Leave and they will campaign on their own, on immigration.

    and is that a problem in the battle for non-Conservative voters?
    Anyone who is voting on immigration is already voting Leave, all it does it firm up Remain/floating voters.
    One suspects that if we do leave, and inevitably join EFTA (or participate in the EEA in some form), then there are going to be a lot of angry Leave voters who continue to see free movement.

    ...

    How on earth can voting Leave be anything other than a great leap in the dark? Or be a vote based on a false prospectus?
    Possibly there are enough voters that are not frit.

    And there is NO inevitability about EFTA, because a) the Tories would then automatically lose the next election, and b) Cameron wouldn't get the enabling legislation through parliament.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Guido
    WATCH: Labour Spin Doctor Seumas Milne Praises Hamas [VIDEO] https://t.co/woenV2o5EU https://t.co/6fjF1xDLV9
  • Pauly
    Pauly Posts: 897
    blackburn63 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    blackburn63 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pauly said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Real project fear from Nigel Farage.

    Nasty, nasty man, no wonder whenever the people have a chance to elect him as an MP, they reject him every time.

    What did he say that is nasty? At least put forward an argument with you know, some evidence or quotes...
    "if you vote to remain you are voting to go into political union with Turkey"

    or

    "Mrs Merkel now supports political union with Turkey, like David Cameron always has"

    I mean really? really
    I am almost certain he could produce at least quotes if not documentation to support that view. People on here have been questioning the wisdom of Cameron's flirting with Turkey for some while now.
    I'll be quite interested to see a link with David Cameron saying he supports a political union with Turkey.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11283924/David-Cameron-I-still-want-Turkey-to-join-EU-despite-migrant-fears.html
    Again, so no evidence of Cameron wanting us be in a political union with Turkey.

    Thanks for clearing that up, more evidence Farage was talking bollocks and engaging in Project Fear.
    You didn't read that did you? You couldn't have done in the time you posted.

    I'll help you out, Cameron says Turkey is "vital" to us.

    Vital: absolutely necessary; essential.

    Keep digging fan boy.
    He probably won't even acknowledge this 2010 speech where Cameron unambiguously declares his backing for Turkey EU membership:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10773007
    He's plain wrong.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    blackburn63 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    blackburn63 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pauly said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Real project fear from Nigel Farage.

    Nasty, nasty man, no wonder whenever the people have a chance to elect him as an MP, they reject him every time.

    What did he say that is nasty? At least put forward an argument with you know, some evidence or quotes...
    "if you vote to remain you are voting to go into political union with Turkey"

    or

    "Mrs Merkel now supports political union with Turkey, like David Cameron always has"

    I mean really? really
    I am almost certain he could produce at least quotes if not documentation to support that view. People on here have been questioning the wisdom of Cameron's flirting with Turkey for some while now.
    I'll be quite interested to see a link with David Cameron saying he supports a political union with Turkey.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11283924/David-Cameron-I-still-want-Turkey-to-join-EU-despite-migrant-fears.html
    Again, so no evidence of Cameron wanting us be in a political union with Turkey.

    Thanks for clearing that up, more evidence Farage was talking bollocks and engaging in Project Fear.
    You didn't read that did you? You couldn't have done in the time you posted.

    I'll help you out, Cameron says Turkey is "vital" to us.

    Vital: absolutely necessary; essential.

    Keep digging fan boy.
    I'm a speed reader.

    But again, it contains no evidence of Cameron saying he wants us be in a political union with Turkey.

    Now come back and show me where Cameron has said he wants us to be in a political union with Turkey.
  • Bob__Sykes
    Bob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    edited April 2016
    chestnut said:

    Greens are putting in an effort in my ward. Two door knocks, several bits of paper. I've seen a Tory wandering around, but no contact. Lib, Lab, UKIP invisible.

    Amusingly, in our ward (a fairly marginal Labour/Tory fight) the competing Labour/Tory leaflets basically focus on exactly the same issues - but each blames the other lot for causing the perceived problem. Labour controlled council, Tory controlled national government.

    The national picture will of course dictate the outcome, sadly, so I suspect a Labour win in my area given the current national polls.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    https://twitter.com/PlatoSays/status/725991804957528064
  • TOPPING
    TOPPING Posts: 44,060
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    twitter.com/YouGov/status/725990918264897537

    I blame it on the influx of foreign footballers, with their poncy boots continental names like 'enry and Czssss-ola.
    And gloves. Don't forget the gloves.
  • MonikerDiCanio
    MonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    blackburn63 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    blackburn63 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pauly said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Real project fear from Nigel Farage.

    Nasty, nasty man, no wonder whenever the people have a chance to elect him as an MP, they reject him every time.

    What did he say that is nasty? At least put forward an argument with you know, some evidence or quotes...
    "if you vote to remain you are voting to go into political union with Turkey"

    or

    "Mrs Merkel now supports political union with Turkey, like David Cameron always has"

    I mean really? really
    I am almost certain he could produce at least quotes if not documentation to support that view. People on here have been questioning the wisdom of Cameron's flirting with Turkey for some while now.
    I'll be quite interested to see a link with David Cameron saying he supports a political union with Turkey.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11283924/David-Cameron-I-still-want-Turkey-to-join-EU-despite-migrant-fears.html
    Again, so no evidence of Cameron wanting us be in a political union with Turkey.

    Thanks for clearing that up, more evidence Farage was talking bollocks and engaging in Project Fear.
    You didn't read that did you? You couldn't have done in the time you posted.

    I'll help you out, Cameron says Turkey is "vital" to us.

    Vital: absolutely necessary; essential.

    Keep digging fan boy.
    I'm a speed reader.

    But again, it contains no evidence of Cameron saying he wants us be in a political union with Turkey.

    Now come back and show me where Cameron has said he wants us to be in a political union with Turkey.
    Stop digging.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ffa7IewHB2c
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    Oh my, a positive article for Sadiq Khan in The Standard

    Hi-de-hi, voters... Sadiq Khan plays crowd like a pro (and avoids the gaffe with the banana)

    Selfies were taken, gags cracked, babies made a fuss of as the Labour man turned on the charm at Deptford Market. Joe Murphy watched him woo a wary electorate

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/hidehi-voters-sadiq-khan-plays-crowd-like-a-pro-and-avoids-the-gaffe-with-the-banana-a3236811.html
  • Indigo
    Indigo Posts: 9,966
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Thanks for clearing that up, more evidence Farage was talking bollocks and engaging in Project Fear.

    Bwhahahahah

    A Tory member, and Remain campaigner has the front to come here and accuse others of Project Fear, that is seriously rich.

    "They don't like it up'em Capn Mainwaring"
    Are you calling me a Fuzzy Wuzzy?

    Leavers using racially charged terms.

    Say it ain't so :lol:
    If anything I might be calling you a member of the Walmington-on-Sea's Home Guard, but that might be a stretch :D

  • oxfordsimon
    oxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    Plato_Says said:

    Guido
    WATCH: Labour Spin Doctor Seumas Milne Praises Hamas [VIDEO] https://t.co/woenV2o5EU https://t.co/6fjF1xDLV9

    Toxic stuff, yet again
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,728
    TOPPING said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    twitter.com/YouGov/status/725990918264897537

    I blame it on the influx of foreign footballers, with their poncy boots continental names like 'enry and Czssss-ola.
    And gloves. Don't forget the gloves.
    Was it Martial, sorry Marrr-sea-al, that was wearing gloves last weekend in blazing sunshine at Wembley?
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Thanks for clearing that up, more evidence Farage was talking bollocks and engaging in Project Fear.

    Bwhahahahah

    A Tory member, and Remain campaigner has the front to come here and accuse others of Project Fear, that is seriously rich.

    "They don't like it up'em Capn Mainwaring"
    Are you calling me a Fuzzy Wuzzy?

    Leavers using racially charged terms.

    Say it ain't so :lol:
    If anything I might be calling you a member of the Walmington-on-Sea's Home Guard, but that might be a stretch :D

    Can't believe you missed the obvious line

    TSE, you're like Private Pike, You stupid boy.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Anecdote, but a friend of my mother's (former Lib Dem voter) is likely to vote Leave, on the basis that she's worried about Turkey. She's a bit lefty (not a Corbynite nutcase or anything), so that rather surprised me.
  • Indigo
    Indigo Posts: 9,966
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Thanks for clearing that up, more evidence Farage was talking bollocks and engaging in Project Fear.

    Bwhahahahah

    A Tory member, and Remain campaigner has the front to come here and accuse others of Project Fear, that is seriously rich.

    "They don't like it up'em Capn Mainwaring"
    Are you calling me a Fuzzy Wuzzy?

    Leavers using racially charged terms.

    Say it ain't so :lol:
    If anything I might be calling you a member of the Walmington-on-Sea's Home Guard, but that might be a stretch :D

    Can't believe you missed the obvious line

    TSE, you're like Private Pike, You stupid boy.
    LOL, its been too long since I saw that series, some of the better lines are eluding me.
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Oh my, a positive article for Sadiq Khan in The Standard

    Hi-de-hi, voters... Sadiq Khan plays crowd like a pro (and avoids the gaffe with the banana)

    Selfies were taken, gags cracked, babies made a fuss of as the Labour man turned on the charm at Deptford Market. Joe Murphy watched him woo a wary electorate

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/hidehi-voters-sadiq-khan-plays-crowd-like-a-pro-and-avoids-the-gaffe-with-the-banana-a3236811.html

    The Standard have realised it is all over, best to get onside with the new Mayor.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,728
    Plato_Says said:

    Guido
    WATCH: Labour Spin Doctor Seumas Milne Praises Hamas [VIDEO] https://t.co/woenV2o5EU https://t.co/6fjF1xDLV9

    You know Staines is just ratcheting, ratcheting, ratcheting...it is pretty clear he has got plenty in dirt files to keep drip drip drip feeding.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    Latest Ashcroft focus group

    With eight weeks to go, the latest round of Lord Ashcroft Polls focus groups with undecided referendum voters took place in Newcastle, Gateshead and Stevenage.


    President Obama’s visit was the week’s big news. Did anything stand out? “He saw Prince George in his dressing gown.” “I thought he was here for the Queen’s birthday.” Did he say anything about the referendum? “I know he mentioned it but I can’t remember what he said now.” So much for the game-changing moment.

    In fact, most participants had heard what the president said, few complained about him giving his view (“he was asked a question – if he’s got an opinion, he can give it”), and for some it carried weight: “For him to say England would be at the back of the queue is very, very significant. He said it would put us back ten years.”

    But most were not swayed, usually because they did not feel he had Britain’s welfare at heart, or resented what seemed like “bullying”: “America prefers to do deals with big regional blocs. So he’s not looking after our interests but US interests;” “He came all this way to say that. It must be for someone’s benefit. Is it ours, or his?” “It came across as almost childish. ‘If you don’t do what we want, we’re not going to play with you’.” “He’s sticking his oar in. I’ve always trusted him before, but I don’t think I do on this.”

    http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/04/lord-ashcroft-my-second-focus-group-on-the-eu-referendum.html
  • Floater
    Floater Posts: 14,207
    now the turn of Mr Milne

    http://order-order.com/2016/04/29/seumas-milne-praises-hamas/
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    Haha

    Boris has been in hot water again. “Shocker”. Indeed. Most could not remember why: “Has he rugby tackled another child?” “Didn’t he meet someone on a dating site and they turned out to be a bondage queen?”
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    SouthamObserver said:

    This cannot be correct, can it?

    As of August 1, every child in Scotland from birth to 18 will have a 'named person' who is responsible for their 'well being'. That person can access the child's medical records and those of their family without permission from the family and share information with other agencies without permission from the parents.
    From conception to school age, the named person will be a health visitor, from 5 to 18 it will be a head teacher or other senior teacher - except at weekends and during school holidays when it will be a council employee.
    Children can be interviewed without the permission of their parents but any notes will not be made available to parents to protect the confidentiality of the child.

    FFS

    Sadly it's all true. Notice how the Zoomers squeal like stuck pigs every time it is mentioned.

    Even some of the Numpties that voted for it are now beginning to notice how ineffably awful an idea it is.
  • FF43
    FF43 Posts: 18,213
    SouthamObserver said:

    This cannot be correct, can it?

    As of August 1, every child in Scotland from birth to 18 will have a 'named person' who is responsible for their 'well being'. That person can access the child's medical records and those of their family without permission from the family and share information with other agencies without permission from the parents.
    From conception to school age, the named person will be a health visitor, from 5 to 18 it will be a head teacher or other senior teacher - except at weekends and during school holidays when it will be a council employee.
    Children can be interviewed without the permission of their parents but any notes will not be made available to parents to protect the confidentiality of the child.

    FFS

    It makes me queasy certainly. I suspect it could be challenged under Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights - Right to respect for private and family life.

    An example of why it is important to stay in the ECHR

    1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family
    life, his home and his correspondence.
    2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the
    exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the
    law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of
    national security, public safety or the economic wellbeing of the
    country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection
    of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms
    of others.
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Ken.....heading for Australia (when in a hole...)

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/ken-livingstone-sticks-to-his-guns-and-insists-ive-not-said-anything-wrong-a3236666.html

    Has he been on the booze again?

    Mr Livingstone’s defence is expected to rest on the writings of a controversial American Marxist historian Lenni Brenner, who claims there was collusion between the Nazis and early campaigners for a Jewish homeland.
    Ken hasn't read it carefully:

    Hitler did not care what the Jews thought of themselves; he wanted them out of Germany and, preferably, dead. The Zionist solution was no solution.

    P. 35

    http://vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres/LBzad.pdf
  • TonyE
    TonyE Posts: 938
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Anecdote, but a friend of my mother's (former Lib Dem voter) is likely to vote Leave, on the basis that she's worried about Turkey. She's a bit lefty (not a Corbynite nutcase or anything), so that rather surprised me.

    There is a very good 'Liberal' case for leave. Roland Smith of the Adam Smith Institute wrote a great piece on it for the Adam Smith Website.

    http://www.adamsmith.org/the-liberal-case-for-leave/
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    MonikerDiCanio said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    blackburn63 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    blackburn63 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Indigo said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pauly said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Real project fear from Nigel Farage.

    Nasty, nasty man, no wonder whenever the people have a chance to elect him as an MP, they reject him every time.

    What did he say that is nasty? At least put forward an argument with you know, some evidence or quotes...
    "if you vote to remain you are voting to go into political union with Turkey"

    or

    "Mrs Merkel now supports political union with Turkey, like David Cameron always has"

    I mean really? really
    I am almost certain he could produce at least quotes if not documentation to support that view. People on here have been questioning the wisdom of Cameron's flirting with Turkey for some while now.
    I'll be quite interested to see a link with David Cameron saying he supports a political union with Turkey.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11283924/David-Cameron-I-still-want-Turkey-to-join-EU-despite-migrant-fears.html
    Again, so no evidence of Cameron wanting us be in a political union with Turkey.

    Thanks for clearing that up, more evidence Farage was talking bollocks and engaging in Project Fear.
    You didn't read that did you? You couldn't have done in the time you posted.

    I'll help you out, Cameron says Turkey is "vital" to us.

    Vital: absolutely necessary; essential.

    Keep digging fan boy.
    I'm a speed reader.

    But again, it contains no evidence of Cameron saying he wants us be in a political union with Turkey.

    Now come back and show me where Cameron has said he wants us to be in a political union with Turkey.
    Stop digging.
    ttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ffa7IewHB2c
    Source is Reuters, no less.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Jake_Wilde: "There is no antisemitism crisis in the Labour Party & those who say there is are agents of the Zionist conspiracy" https://t.co/m6wN7Q7BDW
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/gordonjc666/status/725994759869833216
  • Jonathan
    Jonathan Posts: 22,107
    edited April 2016
    PB seems to be obsessed with certain parochial mayoral elections.

    When do we get to cover the main event? The police and crime commissioners election is buzzing up and down the country. It's on a knife edge. Will I get off my arse and vote or stay at home for the first time ever?
  • CD13
    CD13 Posts: 6,386
    Ken will never apologise. Good on him for that - he wouldn't mean it if he did. All these "I apologise if anyone was offended." means "I've been ordered to say this, you bastards."

    He knows he's right even when he's wrong because he has superior judgement. A Guardian reader, in other words.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,728
    edited April 2016
    Scott_P said:

    @Jake_Wilde: "There is no antisemitism crisis in the Labour Party & those who say there is are agents of the Zionist conspiracy" https://t.co/m6wN7Q7BDW

    Its all a massive conspiracy by the Jews and the likes of Wes Streeting...apparently....

    https://electronicintifada.net/content/how-israel-lobby-manufactured-uk-labour-partys-anti-semitism-crisis/16481

    It is like a parallel universe where Ken was frog marched to the BBC studios and forced at gun point to bang on about Hitler like the way ISIS make the British Journo guy do those propaganda films.
  • malcolmg
    malcolmg Posts: 44,523
    Scott_P said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    This cannot be correct, can it?

    As of August 1, every child in Scotland from birth to 18 will have a 'named person' who is responsible for their 'well being'. That person can access the child's medical records and those of their family without permission from the family and share information with other agencies without permission from the parents.
    From conception to school age, the named person will be a health visitor, from 5 to 18 it will be a head teacher or other senior teacher - except at weekends and during school holidays when it will be a council employee.
    Children can be interviewed without the permission of their parents but any notes will not be made available to parents to protect the confidentiality of the child.

    FFS

    Sadly it's all true. Notice how the Zoomers squeal like stuck pigs every time it is mentioned.

    Even some of the Numpties that voted for it are now beginning to notice how ineffably awful an idea it is.
    The only stuck pig squealing on here is you, a crackpot.
  • TonyE
    TonyE Posts: 938
    FF43 said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    This cannot be correct, can it?

    As of August 1, every child in Scotland from birth to 18 will have a 'named person' who is responsible for their 'well being'. That person can access the child's medical records and those of their family without permission from the family and share information with other agencies without permission from the parents.
    From conception to school age, the named person will be a health visitor, from 5 to 18 it will be a head teacher or other senior teacher - except at weekends and during school holidays when it will be a council employee.
    Children can be interviewed without the permission of their parents but any notes will not be made available to parents to protect the confidentiality of the child.

    FFS

    It makes me queasy certainly. I suspect it could be challenged under Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights - Right to respect for private and family life.

    An example of why it is important to stay in the ECHR

    1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family
    life, his home and his correspondence.
    2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the
    exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the
    law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of
    national security, public safety or the economic wellbeing of the
    country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection
    of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms
    of others.
    And this would unfortunately pass the 'public safety' test - they will simply cite that it is a way of protecting children against abusive parents. ECHR has a hierarchy of victims.
  • malcolmg
    malcolmg Posts: 44,523
    edited April 2016
    I notice that all the frothers ignore mentioning oil nowadays. Odd now that it is on a steady upward trend ( up 22% this month ), wonder if that could be something to do with it.
  • richardDodd
    richardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Anyone who accepts that ruling in Scotland is insane..imagine the noise if it had been dictated by Westminster..
  • Richard_Nabavi
    Richard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Pulpstar said:

    The Standard have realised it is all over, best to get onside with the new Mayor.

    The Standard has run a lot of articles sympathetic to Sadiq in the last few months, as well as some very critical ones. They are actually fairly even-handed overall, I'd say.
  • JohnO
    JohnO Posts: 4,312
    Jonathan said:

    PB seems to be obsessed with certain parochial mayoral elections.

    When do we get to cover the main event? The police and crime commissioners election is buzzing up and down the country. It's on a knife edge. Will I get off my arse and vote or stay at home for the first time ever?

    Stay at home. Labour's not worth the trek.
  • taffys
    taffys Posts: 9,753
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Jake_Wilde: "There is no antisemitism crisis in the Labour Party & those who say there is are agents of the Zionist conspiracy" https://t.co/m6wN7Q7BDW

    Its all a massive conspiracy by the Jews and the likes of Wes Streeting...apparently....

    https://electronicintifada.net/content/how-israel-lobby-manufactured-uk-labour-partys-anti-semitism-crisis/16481

    It is like a parallel universe where Ken was frog marched to the BBC studios and forced at gun point to bang on about Hitler like the way ISIS make the British Journo guy do those propaganda films.
    The number of people who think Ken is right is astonishing and disturbing.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    https://twitter.com/CJTerry/status/725996964962246656
  • FF43
    FF43 Posts: 18,213
    TonyE said:

    <

    It makes me queasy certainly. I suspect it could be challenged under Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights - Right to respect for private and family life.

    An example of why it is important to stay in the ECHR

    1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family
    life, his home and his correspondence.
    2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the
    exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the
    law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of
    national security, public safety or the economic wellbeing of the
    country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection
    of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms
    of others.

    ---

    And this would unfortunately pass the 'public safety' test - they will simply cite that it is a way of protecting children against abusive parents. ECHR has a hierarchy of victims.

    It would be up to the interpretation of the judge, who tend to err to the side of the individual in this court. The words "and is necessary in a democratic society" makes it clear the public safety argument is limited and has to be justified.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    https://twitter.com/BrookesTimes/status/725962787382562816
  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    blackburn63 said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    blackburn63 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    blackburn63 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    @ TSE - no, but the leader of your campaign has admitted wages will raise.

    Incidentally, I'm emailing Vote Leave to suggest they do a giant poster of a grinning Osborne and his stupid Byzantine formula to show how they're trying to fool the people into voting Remain. I will make sure The Dodgy Figure is not quoted though.

    If that does materialise I hope you enjoy it.

    I love all political posters.
    Lol! A sporting response ;-)

    Campaigning is quite high on my (political) tumescent index.

    Decent posters electrifies campaigns.

    That poster of Ed Miliband in Alex Salmond's pocket was the difference between the Tories being the largest party in a hung parliament and the Tories winning an outright majority in my view
    Absolutely correct.

    Every northern town should have a poster of Cameron and Osborne laughing above:

    We want to stay in the EU - do you?
    Michael Gove (co-covener of Vote Leave) will never authorise or campaign in such a way,
    You may be right, but it would work.

    If Gove is going at this half heartedly he'll regret it, there won't be another chance. He'll be in danger of burning the bridge at both ends, Remain calling him a traitor, Leave a double agent.
    I don't think so.

    I think Leave will get 35-40% of the vote without doing much else. Farage can usefully motivate and drive up turnout amongst this base, if he gets out on the streets and doors.

    To win over another 15-20% Vote Leave need to demonstrate a open, positive, global and internationalist Britain with a much brighter future out than in.

    That's where Gove and Hannan come in.

    It might not be enough to win, but it's the right campaign approach. My criticism of Vote Leave is confined to their slow footedness, and lack of discernible energy and visible initiative. And the fact they always seem to be defensive and on the back foot.

    The NHS being the exception.
    You're looking at this through the eyes of a conservative, get into the mind of the WWC in Barnsley or Widnes. They've never heard of EEA or EFTA, they flirt with Ukip but vote labour, wouldn't vote conservative if you paid them.

    This has to get nasty, ask Crosby about his attacks on Miliband.
    No, I'm looking at this through the eyes of someone who wants Leave to win at least 50.01% of the vote.
  • Philip_Thompson
    Philip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    malcolmg said:

    I notice that all the frothers ignore mentioning oil nowadays. Odd now that it is on a steady upward trend ( up 22% this month ), wonder if that could be something to do with it.

    So it's back above $120 a barrel that Eck was basing his forecasts on?
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    malcolmg said:

    I notice that all the frothers ignore mentioning oil nowadays. Odd now that it is on a steady upward trend ( up 22% this month ), wonder if that could be something to do with it.

    Since tax is collected on profits and little of the North Sea is profitable below $60, I wouldn't break out the bunting yet.

    Just be cheered your compatriots could spot a pig in a poke when offered one.....
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Philip_Thompson said:

    malcolmg said:

    I notice that all the frothers ignore mentioning oil nowadays. Odd now that it is on a steady upward trend ( up 22% this month ), wonder if that could be something to do with it.

    So it's back above $120 a barrel that Eck was basing his forecasts on?
    $48.......still $12 below any profit, to generate tax revenue.....
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Oh dear, Craig Murray accused of lying on Sky - by someone quoting his blog...
  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/725990918264897537

    I'm not sure how you pronounce it is on that list.
  • HurstLlama
    HurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    FF43 said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    This cannot be correct, can it?

    As of August 1, every child in Scotland from birth to 18 will have a 'named person' who is responsible for their 'well being'. That person can access the child's medical records and those of their family without permission from the family and share information with other agencies without permission from the parents.
    From conception to school age, the named person will be a health visitor, from 5 to 18 it will be a head teacher or other senior teacher - except at weekends and during school holidays when it will be a council employee.
    Children can be interviewed without the permission of their parents but any notes will not be made available to parents to protect the confidentiality of the child.

    FFS

    It makes me queasy certainly. I suspect it could be challenged under Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights - Right to respect for private and family life.

    An example of why it is important to stay in the ECHR

    1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family
    life, his home and his correspondence.
    2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the
    exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the
    law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of
    national security, public safety or the economic wellbeing of the
    country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection
    of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms
    of others.
    I rather think that a challenge on the basis of paragraph 2 would fail as it will be argued that a) the measure is provided for in law and b) it is necessary to safeguard the the health of the children concerned. That argument would, I think, have to be based on a "necessity" test, is the measure actually necessary?

    I am not sure how the Scottish courts would interpret that but based on recent decisions in England at at the European court (which is where the case would almost inevitably end up), my guess would be that the courts would hold that it was and refuse to strike down the measure. After all, the list of exemptions would seem to give enough scope for people to be slung out of the country, people that the courts have refused to allow us to deport because of Article 8.

    A more fruitful line of argument might be the proportionality test. A key fundament of the ECHR is that actions by the state have to be lawful (i.e. provided for in law), necessary and PROPORTIONATE to the scale of harm that they seek to avoid or prevent. Giving every child a state guardian, with all the powers of intervention in the families' private life proposed, because a very small percentage of them may be under threat of physical, mental or moral harm would hardly seem proportionate.
  • LewisDuckworth
    LewisDuckworth Posts: 379
    CarlottaVance said:

    Ken.....heading for Australia (when in a hole...)

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/ken-livingstone-sticks-to-his-guns-and-insists-ive-not-said-anything-wrong-a3236666.html

    Pity he can't be time-travelled to 1932 Germany and be stuck there for a few years (hope he has no difficulty in lifting his right arm and keeping it straight).
  • dr_spyn
    dr_spyn Posts: 11,312
    Just as I thought Ken Livingstone was the sole Westminster Village Idiot, up pops John Major. https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/726000556377034752
  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Jake_Wilde: "There is no antisemitism crisis in the Labour Party & those who say there is are agents of the Zionist conspiracy" https://t.co/m6wN7Q7BDW

    Its all a massive conspiracy by the Jews and the likes of Wes Streeting...apparently....

    https://electronicintifada.net/content/how-israel-lobby-manufactured-uk-labour-partys-anti-semitism-crisis/16481

    It is like a parallel universe where Ken was frog marched to the BBC studios and forced at gun point to bang on about Hitler like the way ISIS make the British Journo guy do those propaganda films.
    Further evidence (if any were needed) of the diabolical cunning of the Hebrew.
  • TCPoliticalBetting
    TCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    Stunned.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/28/all-belgian-residents-issued-with-iodine-tablets-to-protect-agai/
  • SimonStClare
    SimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Jess Phillips: - Livingstone must be thrown out of Labour. He’s had his last second chance.

    "If we allow the Tories to lecture us on racism, we are doomed. The former London mayor is a repeat offender who must be shown the door.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/29/ken-livingstone-labour-racism-london?CMP=twt_gu

    Hmm, clearing his party of anti-Semitism does not appear to be the first priority of the Labour MP for Birmingham Yardley.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Dr. Spyn, given the polls (for what they're worth) show it neck-and-neck, that's a damned silly comment from Major.
  • Floater
    Floater Posts: 14,207
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    LondonBob said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/asabenn/status/725950187802255360

    Again, what is your point?

    An apt profile pick for you.
    Sorry Moscow Bobski, if you don't understand you never will.
    I don't know about you but I am finding that as more of these intolerent people stick their heads over the parapet the more depressed I become.

    Seriously Labour, WTF?
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    Corbynistas on Twitter now screaming about people reading things that their anti-semites have posted on facebook...

    it's all a dastardly Tory plot
  • Philip_Thompson
    Philip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Sean_F said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sean_F said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Looks like Farage/UKIP/Leave.EU have been rebuffed by Vote Leave and they will campaign on their own, on immigration.

    and is that a problem in the battle for non-Conservative voters?
    Anyone who is voting on immigration is already voting Leave, all it does it firm up Remain/floating voters.
    Yet, Farage has better ratings among the public than Cameron.
    He also had better ratings than Cameron during the last parliament. How'd that turn out?
    It doesn't matter if Farage gets elected. It's how many votes he brings in on 23rd June that counts. My guess, he'll bring in quite a large number.
    About a third to a quarter of the 50+1 that is needed for victory. For every voter Farage brings Leave need another 2 to 3 voters.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    LewisDuckworth said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Ken.....heading for Australia (when in a hole...)

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/ken-livingstone-sticks-to-his-guns-and-insists-ive-not-said-anything-wrong-a3236666.html

    Pity he can't be time-travelled to 1932 Germany and be stuck there for a few years (hope he has no difficulty in lifting his right arm and keeping it straight).
    :lol:
  • Indigo
    Indigo Posts: 9,966
    dr_spyn said:

    Just as I thought Ken Livingstone was the sole Westminster Village Idiot, up pops John Major.
    /twitter.com/politicshome/status/726000556377034752

    The perks of not needing to get elected any more, you can insult half the electorate and not care.

  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Sean_F said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sean_F said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Looks like Farage/UKIP/Leave.EU have been rebuffed by Vote Leave and they will campaign on their own, on immigration.

    and is that a problem in the battle for non-Conservative voters?
    Anyone who is voting on immigration is already voting Leave, all it does it firm up Remain/floating voters.
    Yet, Farage has better ratings among the public than Cameron.
    He also had better ratings than Cameron during the last parliament. How'd that turn out?
    It doesn't matter if Farage gets elected. It's how many votes he brings in on 23rd June that counts. My guess, he'll bring in quite a large number.
    About a third to a quarter of the 50+1 that is needed for victory. For every voter Farage brings Leave need another 2 to 3 voters.
    I'd say one in three is about right.
  • GIN1138
    GIN1138 Posts: 22,938
    dr_spyn said:

    Just as I thought Ken Livingstone was the sole Westminster Village Idiot, up pops John Major. https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/726000556377034752

    I always thought it was a shame all those people that lost their houses in 1992 as a direct result of Major's ERM madness didn't sue him and the Tory Party... Maybe it's not too late?
  • JonnyJimmy
    JonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    Innocent_Abroad said:

    rottenborough said:

    Morning all,

    Gruesome headlines for Labour. Meanwhile, Telegraph reporting that Miliband Snr is to take top US job if Clinton wins. Even the Prince Over the Water has thrown in the towel.

    Two questions for :Tory Peebies.

    First, what benefit does England enjoy from the Labour Party's being legal?

    Second, what would have to happen for it to cease to enjoy that benefit?

    And you wonder why some consider you a cretin?
  • TCPoliticalBetting
    TCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    SLAB style.

    http://order-order.com/2016/04/29/alleged-granny-basher-mp-in-court-today/
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Zac is still value at 11.5 with Betfair IMO:

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.107728324
  • MonikerDiCanio
    MonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    dr_spyn said:

    Just as I thought Ken Livingstone was the sole Westminster Village Idiot, up pops John Major. https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/726000556377034752

    Cameron shouldn't welcome John " Black Wednesday " Major's support. Somethings are better forgotten.
  • TCPoliticalBetting
    TCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    GIN1138 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Just as I thought Ken Livingstone was the sole Westminster Village Idiot, up pops John Major. https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/726000556377034752

    I always thought it was a shame all those people that lost their houses in 1992 as a direct result of Major's ERM madness didn't sue him and the Tory Party... Maybe it's not too late?
    I sense that buckets of smelly stuff will be tipped on the head of this man. Shame as having Conservatives pushing REMAIN is doing so well for LEAVE's campaign.
  • LewisDuckworth
    LewisDuckworth Posts: 379
    Casino_Royale said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/725990918264897537

    I'm not sure how you pronounce it is on that list.
    If it weren't for the media the pronunciation might vary by region and class rather in the same way as 'garage" ... pronounced garridge on Tyneside.
  • FeersumEnjineeya
    FeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,792
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Anecdote, but a friend of my mother's (former Lib Dem voter) is likely to vote Leave, on the basis that she's worried about Turkey. She's a bit lefty (not a Corbynite nutcase or anything), so that rather surprised me.

    Leave's Project Fear in action.
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