politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The May elections less than 4 weeks away – Why so few Torie
Comments
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Let's put it this way. It isn't a building that befits over 250,000 companies having at one time or another being registered out of that address.Cyclefree said:
I know. Fun isn't it? I live very close to the infamous Finchley Road address. I shall have to check it out on my way home.AlastairMeeks said:
Ooooh, it's ages since I've been tangentially linked to a good conspiracy theory.hunchman said:Blairmore holdings. ......panmure gordon. ....pinsent Mason. .....Carroll trust. Follow the trail......of money. And see the YouTube clip I posted on here late last night.
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Hmm, Politics 101 – never give an interview with children or animals in frame.TheScreamingEagles said:This Politician Didn’t Notice The Pigs Fucking Behind Him When He Gave A TV Interview
“We like to organise our visits to send a message in pictorial terms exactly what we’re asking for,” said Lib Dem leader Willie Rennie, unaware of what the pigs were doing in the background.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/who-said-politics-was-boaring?utm_term=.dg5Da6m9A9#.ac2PrjONLN0 -
And if you want to "Chercher la femme"....... I am happy to oblige.TheScreamingEagles said:
These PB meets are just fronts for the Illuminati lizardsCyclefree said:
I know. Fun isn't it? I live very close to the infamous Finchley Road address. I shall have to check it out on my way home.AlastairMeeks said:
Ooooh, it's ages since I've been tangentially linked to a good conspiracy theory.hunchman said:Blairmore holdings. ......panmure gordon. ....pinsent Mason. .....Carroll trust. Follow the trail......of money. And see the YouTube clip I posted on here late last night.
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Not the warm up act for Dave I hopeTheScreamingEagles said:This Politician Didn’t Notice The Pigs Fucking Behind Him When He Gave A TV Interview
“We like to organise our visits to send a message in pictorial terms exactly what we’re asking for,” said Lib Dem leader Willie Rennie, unaware of what the pigs were doing in the background.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/who-said-politics-was-boaring?utm_term=.dg5Da6m9A9#.ac2PrjONLN0 -
Such a shame I won't be able to make tonight.Cyclefree said:
And if you want to "Chercher la femme"....... I am happy to oblige.TheScreamingEagles said:
These PB meets are just fronts for the Illuminati lizardsCyclefree said:
I know. Fun isn't it? I live very close to the infamous Finchley Road address. I shall have to check it out on my way home.AlastairMeeks said:
Ooooh, it's ages since I've been tangentially linked to a good conspiracy theory.hunchman said:Blairmore holdings. ......panmure gordon. ....pinsent Mason. .....Carroll trust. Follow the trail......of money. And see the YouTube clip I posted on here late last night.
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So in 1997 Cameron invests in a perfectly legitimate and legal offshore fund. 13 years later he sells this investment.Throughout the course of the investment he paid all due UK taxes on his investment. Somehow this now means that 90% of the news airtime is about this perfectly legal investment with all and sundry giving their opinion.
In the words of an investment expert this morning there was a "massive misunderstanding" about what Mr Cameron had invested in.
He said it was a hedge fund that was "about as boring as it gets for investments", adding that it would not be used for avoiding tax.
"It's no different from Mr Cameron investing in a UK stock,"
Apparently it is now a resigning matter. It is too mad for words
What a sad country this is sometimes!!0 -
Ha, my mother taught at Burleigh College.JosiasJessop said:Interesting selection of flags behind these young would-be terrorists ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-359847470 -
He is wrong. You don't have to declare such a small holding in a unit trust. And I would think he knows that too.CarlottaVance said:The Prime Minister is today facing a sleaze inquiry into his failure to declare his shares in a shady offshore fund.
Campaigning Labour MP John Mann said he will refer David Cameron to the Parliamentary standards watchdog for keeping the £30,000-worth of offshore shares a secret during his years in Opposition.
"Action will have to be taken, there's no question about it," Mr Mann told the Mirror.
"He has broken the rules and principles of standards in public life.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-faces-sleaze-probe-77154490 -
"I'd prefer to see things like profit-making schools"Casino_Royale said:
As you said on the last thread, party management is part of it. But both those measures were mainstream budgetary measures part of the Government's Plan A just with George Osborne's pawprints all over them.AlastairMeeks said:
On the last two occasions that the government tried to do something Very Right Wing (tax credit cuts, benefit cuts), it was sabotaged by some of the Very Right Wing MPs who David Cameron was looking to throw some red meat. So if David Cameron were to go down that route, the Very Right Wing will need to play their part too in telling the more hostile of their number to sit down and shut up.Casino_Royale said:
I think it will take more than that.TheScreamingEagles said:
In the event of a Remain victory, Dave moves George to the FO and Gove to the Treasury, everyone's happySlackbladder said:
They are much more likely to be anti-Osborne thoughTheScreamingEagles said:
2) Just because you're a Leaver doesn't mean you're automatically anti-Dave. Do we really expect the likes of Gove, Zahawi et al to try and topple Dave. Never happening.
Dave will also have to do something Very Right Wing to raise the moral of the troops and show he isn't an effete Guardianista.
Dusting himself off, reshuffling the deck and then carrying on just the same as before won't quite cut it.
It was about damaging Osborne. With Gove as Chancellor it'll be a different story.
But backbench MPs will expect to see meaningful change. I expect more non-fiscal measures.
The full compulsory academy plan might be part of this but it's very ill thought through.
I'd prefer to see things like profit-making schools and some extra measures on the HRA bill (still undeclared) and immigration.
As someone with a young son, I want to see schools that work. Decreasing the illiteracy and innumeracy rates from their long-term p*ss poor rate (~20%) is vital. Not just for my kid, or those kids, but society as a whole.
It'd be nice if they made a profit as well, but ensuring we have kids that leave school able to function in society is absolutely vital.0 -
I expect I'll regret asking. What do you think such a building ought to look like?hunchman said:
Let's put it this way. It isn't a building that befits over 250,000 companies having at one time or another being registered out of that address.Cyclefree said:
I know. Fun isn't it? I live very close to the infamous Finchley Road address. I shall have to check it out on my way home.AlastairMeeks said:
Ooooh, it's ages since I've been tangentially linked to a good conspiracy theory.hunchman said:Blairmore holdings. ......panmure gordon. ....pinsent Mason. .....Carroll trust. Follow the trail......of money. And see the YouTube clip I posted on here late last night.
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It's called following the crowd. It seems to be all the rage.JosiasJessop said:
Really? What else is there?Plato_Says said:This is wider than the EU ref. It's simply crystallised my opinion.
Wanderer said:
I get that you support Leave and Cameron doesn't, but how do you feel you were duped? He said there'd be a referendum and here it is.Plato_Says said:I pay a lot of attention to my own behaviour when sharing stuff on social media.
I'll promote generic Tory stuff, but nothing for Cameron or Osborne now. Ditto defending either. I'm feeling duped, and it takes a lot of piss taking to lose my loyalty.MarkHopkins said:AlastairMeeks said:Incidentally, I saw Jimmy Carr host an awards ceremony where as part of his stand-up routine he talked about his experience of being on the front pages of the newspapers for tax avoidance. I'm not generally a fan of his but he was extremely funny. As part of his routine, he said something along the lines of:
"And when the Prime Minister breaks away from a G20 summit to condemn you personally, that's when you realise that you've got a problem."
He is probably enjoying this week enormously.
Carr's used that line before - it is good.
I actually feel a bit sorry for Cameron, it doesn't seem he's done anything particularly egregious - nothing like Carr.
But then I remember how Cameron's trying to rig the referendum, and so I stop caring.
You've certainly changed your tune since May last year.0 -
Is it the usual password tonight?TheScreamingEagles said:
These PB meets are just fronts for the Illuminati lizardsCyclefree said:
I know. Fun isn't it? I live very close to the infamous Finchley Road address. I shall have to check it out on my way home.AlastairMeeks said:
Ooooh, it's ages since I've been tangentially linked to a good conspiracy theory.hunchman said:Blairmore holdings. ......panmure gordon. ....pinsent Mason. .....Carroll trust. Follow the trail......of money. And see the YouTube clip I posted on here late last night.
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Things I Never Expected To See In The Guardian
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/07/9-million-pro-eu-leaflet-in-campaign?CMP=share_btn_twThe £9m pro-EU leaflet says just one thing: we’re panicking
Daniel Hannan0 -
Yes, the password is still 'Bilderberg'Richard_Nabavi said:
Is it the usual password tonight?TheScreamingEagles said:
These PB meets are just fronts for the Illuminati lizardsCyclefree said:
I know. Fun isn't it? I live very close to the infamous Finchley Road address. I shall have to check it out on my way home.AlastairMeeks said:
Ooooh, it's ages since I've been tangentially linked to a good conspiracy theory.hunchman said:Blairmore holdings. ......panmure gordon. ....pinsent Mason. .....Carroll trust. Follow the trail......of money. And see the YouTube clip I posted on here late last night.
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I wrote a couple of days ago about a 'deviant' politician who the media may be protecting for political reasons because they consider him useful. IMO that's not healthy.tyson said:Last night I alluded to a beast of a super injunction- and it wasn't this threesome celebrity thing. My friend says it is known amongst a few journos. That's what I thought might come out at the Shooting Star tonight.
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Ever
Excuse the non sequitur but every time I see Hunchman on here it reminds me of Woody Allen's line "Of course I like Wagner but every time I hear him I want to invade Poland"Cyclefree said:
I expect I'll regret asking. What do you think such a building ought to look like?hunchman said:
Let's put it this way. It isn't a building that befits over 250,000 companies having at one time or another being registered out of that address.Cyclefree said:
I know. Fun isn't it? I live very close to the infamous Finchley Road address. I shall have to check it out on my way home.AlastairMeeks said:
Ooooh, it's ages since I've been tangentially linked to a good conspiracy theory.hunchman said:Blairmore holdings. ......panmure gordon. ....pinsent Mason. .....Carroll trust. Follow the trail......of money. And see the YouTube clip I posted on here late last night.
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Is it me Ms Plato, or is the Guardian tippy-toeing to the right recently?Plato_Says said:Things I Never Expected To See In The Guardian
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/07/9-million-pro-eu-leaflet-in-campaign?CMP=share_btn_twThe £9m pro-EU leaflet says just one thing: we’re panicking
Daniel Hannan0 -
Oh!TheScreamingEagles said:
Such a shame I won't be able to make tonight.Cyclefree said:
And if you want to "Chercher la femme"....... I am happy to oblige.TheScreamingEagles said:
These PB meets are just fronts for the Illuminati lizardsCyclefree said:
I know. Fun isn't it? I live very close to the infamous Finchley Road address. I shall have to check it out on my way home.AlastairMeeks said:
Ooooh, it's ages since I've been tangentially linked to a good conspiracy theory.hunchman said:Blairmore holdings. ......panmure gordon. ....pinsent Mason. .....Carroll trust. Follow the trail......of money. And see the YouTube clip I posted on here late last night.
Will anyone nice be coming? Other than the wonderful OGH himself, of course.......
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PB had rather a good General Election. Okay, most of us underestimate the number of Conservative seats, but we were right to think that the Conservatives would come first.Estobar said:
It's the BBC News and Sky News lead.FrancisUrquhart said:Wasn't there that twitter hash tag a while back that was "trending" for weeks in regards to CameronMustGo or something similar. And all the tw@terati got ever so cross nobody was mentioning it.
The patronising arrogance towards twitter, when pb.com was disastrously wrong about the General Election, is so far beyond parody as to be amusing.
Still, perhaps we should ask Lord Ashcroft's polling advice?
Twitter didn't have as good a General Election.0 -
Mr Meeks will be there, so will Sunil, they are the epitome of niceness.Cyclefree said:
Oh!TheScreamingEagles said:
Such a shame I won't be able to make tonight.Cyclefree said:
And if you want to "Chercher la femme"....... I am happy to oblige.TheScreamingEagles said:
These PB meets are just fronts for the Illuminati lizardsCyclefree said:
I know. Fun isn't it? I live very close to the infamous Finchley Road address. I shall have to check it out on my way home.AlastairMeeks said:
Ooooh, it's ages since I've been tangentially linked to a good conspiracy theory.hunchman said:Blairmore holdings. ......panmure gordon. ....pinsent Mason. .....Carroll trust. Follow the trail......of money. And see the YouTube clip I posted on here late last night.
Will anyone nice be coming? Other than the wonderful OGH himself, of course.......0 -
Brilliant!Roger said:Ever
Excuse the non sequitur but every time I see Hunchman on here it reminds me of Woody Allen's line "Of course I like Wagner but every time I hear him I want to invade Poland"Cyclefree said:
I expect I'll regret asking. What do you think such a building ought to look like?hunchman said:
Let's put it this way. It isn't a building that befits over 250,000 companies having at one time or another being registered out of that address.Cyclefree said:
I know. Fun isn't it? I live very close to the infamous Finchley Road address. I shall have to check it out on my way home.AlastairMeeks said:
Ooooh, it's ages since I've been tangentially linked to a good conspiracy theory.hunchman said:Blairmore holdings. ......panmure gordon. ....pinsent Mason. .....Carroll trust. Follow the trail......of money. And see the YouTube clip I posted on here late last night.
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Stop trying to divert from the central issue at hand. The more ridicule I draw from the establishment on here over this the more I know along with Gordon bowden and others that I'm on the right lines. .......Cyclefree said:
I expect I'll regret asking. What do you think such a building ought to look like?hunchman said:
Let's put it this way. It isn't a building that befits over 250,000 companies having at one time or another being registered out of that address.Cyclefree said:
I know. Fun isn't it? I live very close to the infamous Finchley Road address. I shall have to check it out on my way home.AlastairMeeks said:
Ooooh, it's ages since I've been tangentially linked to a good conspiracy theory.hunchman said:Blairmore holdings. ......panmure gordon. ....pinsent Mason. .....Carroll trust. Follow the trail......of money. And see the YouTube clip I posted on here late last night.
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Currystar..re Cameron..you have it spot on..and John Mann is a total prat..who is about to enter the Labour minefield..He could start off with Browns conduct re his wife's flat..or Darlings flip flopping house sales..or Miliband rejigging of dads will..maybe cast a glance at the dubious financial antics in the Benn family when Wedgie popped off..0
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Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/7184185777459322880 -
David Cameron now has a lower approval rating than Jeremy Corbyn – while the Prime Minister and Chancellor are the least trusted politicians on tax avoidance
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/04/08/camerons-ratings-now-lower-corbyns/0 -
Strange that you mention Andreotti, I'm going out to dinner tonight with a good friend here, a nephew of Fanfani (Andreotti's political soul mate).
Italians are fascinated by conspiracy. Their evening TV mixes between Berlusconi's tits and arse shows that go on and on, and then the most ludicrous documentaries on say how Diana was murdered by the M15 because she was pregnant which is just presented as fact like we'd watch Panorama. Quite incredible.Cyclefree said:
Yes, well, that's normally correct in Italy. You'll be telling me that Andreotti was a simple politician next.......tyson said:Come to Italy...It is the common view to think that the world is a labyrinthine maze of murky intrigues interlocking the most simple of events; anyone just offering a bog standard explanation is considered off their proverbial.
AlastairMeeks said:
Ooooh, it's ages since I've been tangentially linked to a good conspiracy theory.hunchman said:Blairmore holdings. ......panmure gordon. ....pinsent Mason. .....Carroll trust. Follow the trail......of money. And see the YouTube clip I posted on here late last night.
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Can I be a member of the establishment as well? I mean, I am a pleb, but it looks so nice, cosy and protective up there. I know a secret handshake as well, even if it is only the one you need to get into Rustington Coalville working men's club.hunchman said:
Stop trying to divert from the central issue at hand. The more ridicule I draw from the establishment on here over this the more I know along with Gordon bowden and others that I'm on the right lines. .......Cyclefree said:
I expect I'll regret asking. What do you think such a building ought to look like?hunchman said:
Let's put it this way. It isn't a building that befits over 250,000 companies having at one time or another being registered out of that address.Cyclefree said:
I know. Fun isn't it? I live very close to the infamous Finchley Road address. I shall have to check it out on my way home.AlastairMeeks said:
Ooooh, it's ages since I've been tangentially linked to a good conspiracy theory.hunchman said:Blairmore holdings. ......panmure gordon. ....pinsent Mason. .....Carroll trust. Follow the trail......of money. And see the YouTube clip I posted on here late last night.
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Many of us were right in criticising the pollsters *before* the election.Sean_F said:
PB had rather a good General Election. Okay, most of us underestimate the number of Conservative seats, but we were right to think that the Conservatives would come first.Estobar said:
It's the BBC News and Sky News lead.FrancisUrquhart said:Wasn't there that twitter hash tag a while back that was "trending" for weeks in regards to CameronMustGo or something similar. And all the tw@terati got ever so cross nobody was mentioning it.
The patronising arrogance towards twitter, when pb.com was disastrously wrong about the General Election, is so far beyond parody as to be amusing.
Still, perhaps we should ask Lord Ashcroft's polling advice?
Twitter didn't have as good a General Election.0 -
I want to see them because I think they'll help good schools, invest, expand and do their utmost to be as good as they can be to attract new pupils, and parents.JosiasJessop said:
"I'd prefer to see things like profit-making schools"Casino_Royale said:
As you said on the last thread, party management is part of it. But both those measures were mainstream budgetary measures part of the Government's Plan A just with George Osborne's pawprints all over them.AlastairMeeks said:
On the last two occasions that the government tried to do something Very Right Wing (tax credit cuts, benefit cuts), it was sabotaged by some of the Very Right Wing MPs who David Cameron was looking to throw some red meat. So if David Cameron were to go down that route, the Very Right Wing will need to play their part too in telling the more hostile of their number to sit down and shut up.Casino_Royale said:
I think it will take more than that.TheScreamingEagles said:
In the event of a Remain victory, Dave moves George to the FO and Gove to the Treasury, everyone's happySlackbladder said:
They are much more likely to be anti-Osborne thoughTheScreamingEagles said:
2) Just because you're a Leaver doesn't mean you're automatically anti-Dave. Do we really expect the likes of Gove, Zahawi et al to try and topple Dave. Never happening.
Dave will also have to do something Very Right Wing to raise the moral of the troops and show he isn't an effete Guardianista.
Dusting himself off, reshuffling the deck and then carrying on just the same as before won't quite cut it.
It was about damaging Osborne. With Gove as Chancellor it'll be a different story.
But backbench MPs will expect to see meaningful change. I expect more non-fiscal measures.
The full compulsory academy plan might be part of this but it's very ill thought through.
I'd prefer to see things like profit-making schools and some extra measures on the HRA bill (still undeclared) and immigration.
As someone with a young son, I want to see schools that work. Decreasing the illiteracy and innumeracy rates from their long-term p*ss poor rate (~20%) is vital. Not just for my kid, or those kids, but society as a whole.
It'd be nice if they made a profit as well, but ensuring we have kids that leave school able to function in society is absolutely vital.
I don't support everyone making a profit for the good of my Hayek, but I also don't think profit is a dirty word.0 -
If Corrib has come on stream, which I think it did at end January, than that will have skewed the numbers somewhat. Historically, we took gas from Norway (non-EU import), and sent it to Ireland (EU export).MaxPB said:More trade figures, another record EU trade deficit. More bad news from the index of production as well. Manufacturing in reverse again.
Feb trade
Exports:
EU - £11.3bn (+£0.4bn)
Non-EU - £11.9bn (-£0.1bn)
Imports
EU - £19.9bn (+£1.2bn)
Non-EU £15.3bn (-£1.1bn)
Absolutely horrible figures.
With Corrib basically supplying all of Ireland's gas, it means that non-EU imports will be reduced, as will EU exports.
We probably need to see it stripped out to get underlying trends for the trade balance.0 -
LOL - seriously? All those junior doctors no doubt too.marke09 said:
Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/7184185777459322880 -
There are lots of places that sell off the shelf companies - Betgenius Ltd (now Genius Sports Group) was just bought off the shelf.hunchman said:
Let's put it this way. It isn't a building that befits over 250,000 companies having at one time or another being registered out of that address.Cyclefree said:
I know. Fun isn't it? I live very close to the infamous Finchley Road address. I shall have to check it out on my way home.AlastairMeeks said:
Ooooh, it's ages since I've been tangentially linked to a good conspiracy theory.hunchman said:Blairmore holdings. ......panmure gordon. ....pinsent Mason. .....Carroll trust. Follow the trail......of money. And see the YouTube clip I posted on here late last night.
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Such a shame I'm seeing Muse tomorrow night in Manchester, or I would be there (trolling them in person)marke09 said:Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/718418577745932288
They'd be better off signing an online petition0 -
I knew I would regret it. I'm not diverting anything. You said the building didn't "befit" its use so I asked what would make it "befit" the use to which you say it's been put. If you say it's an irrelevant question why did you make an irrelevant point? If it is relevant, you'll have an answer.hunchman said:
Stop trying to divert from the central issue at hand. The more ridicule I draw from the establishment on here over this the more I know along with Gordon bowden and others that I'm on the right lines. .......Cyclefree said:
I expect I'll regret asking. What do you think such a building ought to look like?hunchman said:
Let's put it this way. It isn't a building that befits over 250,000 companies having at one time or another being registered out of that address.Cyclefree said:
I know. Fun isn't it? I live very close to the infamous Finchley Road address. I shall have to check it out on my way home.AlastairMeeks said:
Ooooh, it's ages since I've been tangentially linked to a good conspiracy theory.hunchman said:Blairmore holdings. ......panmure gordon. ....pinsent Mason. .....Carroll trust. Follow the trail......of money. And see the YouTube clip I posted on here late last night.
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Hmmmm
@David_Ross86: Extraordinary GMS interview with Chinese consortium rep. Said specific projects identified and they have been in talks with SNP for a year.0 -
The Francesco Rosi film "Illustrious Corpses" is well worth watching, if you haven't seen it. Most of his films are, in fact.tyson said:Strange that you mention Andreotti, I'm going out to dinner tonight with a good friend here, a nephew of Fanfani (Andreotti's political soul mate).
Italians are fascinated by conspiracy. Their evening TV mixes between Berlusconi's tits and arse shows that go on and on, and then the most ludicrous documentaries on say how Diana was murdered by the M15 because she was pregnant which is just presented as fact like we'd watch Panorama. Quite incredible.Cyclefree said:
Yes, well, that's normally correct in Italy. You'll be telling me that Andreotti was a simple politician next.......tyson said:Come to Italy...It is the common view to think that the world is a labyrinthine maze of murky intrigues interlocking the most simple of events; anyone just offering a bog standard explanation is considered off their proverbial.
AlastairMeeks said:
Ooooh, it's ages since I've been tangentially linked to a good conspiracy theory.hunchman said:Blairmore holdings. ......panmure gordon. ....pinsent Mason. .....Carroll trust. Follow the trail......of money. And see the YouTube clip I posted on here late last night.
From my personal and professional experience of Italy (and I have plenty of both), the explanation for most things in Italy is rarely simple. Ockham's Razor simply has no purchase there.0 -
lolEstobar said:Wow this #resignCameron is really gaining traction. He's an idiot for obfuscating and lying given how vitriolic he was towards people like Jimmy Carr.
I've no idea what this thread's about. The leadership challenge won't come before the last week of June. And come it will.
It's trending on twitter
This is not "gaining traction". But carry on feeling good about yourself with your clicktivism!
(And I am going off cameron rapidly too, this is not the same as wanting him to resign, dearie me)0 -
Trouble is won't you end up with huge mega schools and potentially reduced competition. And presumably the successful schools will need to expand (costing money) whilst the unsuccessful ones will go empty.Casino_Royale said:
I want to see them because I think they'll help good schools, invest, expand and do their utmost to be as good as they can be to attract new pupils, and parents.JosiasJessop said:
"I'd prefer to see things like profit-making schools"Casino_Royale said:
As you said on the last thread, party management is part of it. But both those measures were mainstream budgetary measures part of the Government's Plan A just with George Osborne's pawprints all over them.AlastairMeeks said:
, the Very Right Wing will need to play their part too in telling the more hostile of their number to sit down and shut up.Casino_Royale said:
I think it will take more than that.TheScreamingEagles said:
In the event of a Remain victory, Dave moves George to the FO and Gove to the Treasury, everyone's happySlackbladder said:
They are much more likely to be anti-Osborne thoughTheScreamingEagles said:
2) Just because you're a Leaver doesn't mean you're automatically anti-Dave. Do we really expect the likes of Gove, Zahawi et al to try and topple Dave. Never happening.
Dave will also have to do something Very Right Wing to raise the moral of the troops and show he isn't an effete Guardianista.
Dusting himself off, reshuffling the deck and then carrying on just the same as before won't quite cut it.
It was about damaging Osborne. With Gove as Chancellor it'll be a different story.
But backbench MPs will expect to see meaningful change. I expect more non-fiscal measures.
The full compulsory academy plan might be part of this but it's very ill thought through.
I'd prefer to see things like profit-making schools and some extra measures on the HRA bill (still undeclared) and immigration.
As someone with a young son, I want to see schools that work. Decreasing the illiteracy and innumeracy rates from their long-term p*ss poor rate (~20%) is vital. Not just for my kid, or those kids, but society as a whole.
It'd be nice if they made a profit as well, but ensuring we have kids that leave school able to function in society is absolutely vital.
I don't support everyone making a profit for the good of my Hayek, but I also don't think profit is a dirty word.0 -
Britain Elects @britainelects 4m4 minutes ago
On David Cameron dealing with the issues of tax avoidance and tax havens:
Would trust: 23%
Would not trust: 68%
(via YouGov / 06 - 07 Apr)
Britain Elects @britainelects 4m4 minutes ago
On Jeremy Corbyn dealing with the issues of tax avoidance and tax havens:
Would trust: 39%
Would not trust: 47%
(via YouGov / 06 - 07 Apr)
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How many Conservative backbenchers will be taking part?TheScreamingEagles said:
Such a shame I'm seeing Muse tomorrow night in Manchester, or I would be there (trolling them in person)marke09 said:Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/718418577745932288
They'd be better off signing an online petition0 -
From Dan, well indeed.
When the referendum legislation went through parliament, the foreign secretary, Philip Hammond, told MPs: “It will be for the yes and the no campaigns to lead the debate in the weeks preceding the poll. I can assure the house that the government has no intention of undermining those campaigns.”
David Lidington, the likeable Europe minister, was even more emphatic: “Let me repeat that we have no intention of legislating to allow the government to do things such as mailshots, paid advertising or leafleting.”
Why, then, have ministers gone back on their words? Why have they chosen to ignore both Britain’s Electoral Commission, which has declared its unhappiness, and the basic rules on the conduct of referendums required by the Council of Europe, which states: “The use of public funds for campaigning purposes must be prohibited in order to guarantee equality of opportunity and the freedom of voters to form an opinion”? Why have they annoyed neutrals and quite a few Remain campaigners by so flagrant a disregard for fair play?0 -
I have no problem with a free market in education.FrankBooth said:
Trouble is won't you end up with huge mega schools and potentially reduced competition. And presumably the successful schools will need to expand (costing money) whilst the unsuccessful ones will go empty.Casino_Royale said:
I want to see them because I think they'll help good schools, invest, expand and do their utmost to be as good as they can be to attract new pupils, and parents.JosiasJessop said:
"I'd prefer to see things like profit-making schools"Casino_Royale said:
As you said on the last thread, party management is part of it. But both those measures were mainstream budgetary measures part of the Government's Plan A just with George Osborne's pawprints all over them.AlastairMeeks said:
, the Very Right Wing will need to play their part too in telling the more hostile of their number to sit down and shut up.Casino_Royale said:
I think it will take more than that.TheScreamingEagles said:
In the event of a Remain victory, Dave moves George to the FO and Gove to the Treasury, everyone's happySlackbladder said:
They are much more likely to be anti-Osborne thoughTheScreamingEagles said:
2) Just because you're a Leaver doesn't mean you're automatically anti-Dave. Do we really expect the likes of Gove, Zahawi et al to try and topple Dave. Never happening.
Dave will also have to do something Very Right Wing to raise the moral of the troops and show he isn't an effete Guardianista.
Dusting himself off, reshuffling the deck and then carrying on just the same as before won't quite cut it.
It was about damaging Osborne. With Gove as Chancellor it'll be a different story.
But backbench MPs will expect to see meaningful change. I expect more non-fiscal measures.
The full compulsory academy plan might be part of this but it's very ill thought through.
I'd prefer to see things like profit-making schools and some extra measures on the HRA bill (still undeclared) and immigration.
As someone with a young son, I want to see schools that work. Decreasing the illiteracy and innumeracy rates from their long-term p*ss poor rate (~20%) is vital. Not just for my kid, or those kids, but society as a whole.
It'd be nice if they made a profit as well, but ensuring we have kids that leave school able to function in society is absolutely vital.
I don't support everyone making a profit for the good of my Hayek, but I also don't think profit is a dirty word.
My problem is right now only the wealthy and privileged can access it.
I want all parents to have the same choices.0 -
David Davis for sure.Sean_F said:
How many Conservative backbenchers will be taking part?TheScreamingEagles said:
Such a shame I'm seeing Muse tomorrow night in Manchester, or I would be there (trolling them in person)marke09 said:Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/718418577745932288
They'd be better off signing an online petition0 -
Remain are having an excellent week as ever.0
-
Sorry if I am a bit pedantic but I don't recall the government "legislating" for mailshots, advertising or leaflets. The recent row about the governments leaflet seems to discount the fact that by precedent in the previous Europe referendum the government issued a leaflet. The formal campaigns within which rules are applied has not started yet and the government will keep to those rules.Plato_Says said:From Dan, well indeed.
When the referendum legislation went through parliament, the foreign secretary, Philip Hammond, told MPs: “It will be for the yes and the no campaigns to lead the debate in the weeks preceding the poll. I can assure the house that the government has no intention of undermining those campaigns.”
David Lidington, the likeable Europe minister, was even more emphatic: “Let me repeat that we have no intention of legislating to allow the government to do things such as mailshots, paid advertising or leafleting.”
Why, then, have ministers gone back on their words? Why have they chosen to ignore both Britain’s Electoral Commission, which has declared its unhappiness, and the basic rules on the conduct of referendums required by the Council of Europe, which states: “The use of public funds for campaigning purposes must be prohibited in order to guarantee equality of opportunity and the freedom of voters to form an opinion”? Why have they annoyed neutrals and quite a few Remain campaigners by so flagrant a disregard for fair play?
0 -
Just think of all those poor protesters who are down on their luck because they keep getting turned down for jobs by posh w****** who'd prefer to employ their mates. Or their mates children. And grandchildren. And nephews. And nieces.Sean_F said:
How many Conservative backbenchers will be taking part?TheScreamingEagles said:
Such a shame I'm seeing Muse tomorrow night in Manchester, or I would be there (trolling them in person)marke09 said:Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/718418577745932288
They'd be better off signing an online petition
I wonder if they might find common cause with some Tory backbenchers. It's always worth remembering that one of the biggest ructions of Cameron's leadership was over grammar schools.0 -
That's all very well. But while he is making this eloquent argument he is not making an eloquent argument to the voters to persuade them to his point of view. And this argument won't win the case.Plato_Says said:From Dan, well indeed.
When the referendum legislation went through parliament, the foreign secretary, Philip Hammond, told MPs: “It will be for the yes and the no campaigns to lead the debate in the weeks preceding the poll. I can assure the house that the government has no intention of undermining those campaigns.”
David Lidington, the likeable Europe minister, was even more emphatic: “Let me repeat that we have no intention of legislating to allow the government to do things such as mailshots, paid advertising or leafleting.”
Why, then, have ministers gone back on their words? Why have they chosen to ignore both Britain’s Electoral Commission, which has declared its unhappiness, and the basic rules on the conduct of referendums required by the Council of Europe, which states: “The use of public funds for campaigning purposes must be prohibited in order to guarantee equality of opportunity and the freedom of voters to form an opinion”? Why have they annoyed neutrals and quite a few Remain campaigners by so flagrant a disregard for fair play?
People are not going to vote Leave because they're pissed off that the government spent some money on a leaflet ahead of the formal campaign. And it is, frankly, delusional to think that endlessly harping on about this is a winning argument.
0 -
Yes! You've almost got it. Unsuccessful ones going empty is the entire point. A hell of a lot better than the current system, where the bad schools are full because parents don't have any choice, and the local education authorities just want to protect the status quo.FrankBooth said:Trouble is won't you end up with huge mega schools and potentially reduced competition. And presumably the successful schools will need to expand (costing money) whilst the unsuccessful ones will go empty.
Your only mistake is that you don't have to end up with mega schools; successful chains of academies will open new ones, or take over the existing poor ones and transform them. The the existing poor ones will have a strong incentive to improve.0 -
Surely that means the numbers are "unskewed" now!rcs1000 said:
If Corrib has come on stream, which I think it did at end January, than that will have skewed the numbers somewhat. Historically, we took gas from Norway (non-EU import), and sent it to Ireland (EU export).MaxPB said:More trade figures, another record EU trade deficit. More bad news from the index of production as well. Manufacturing in reverse again.
Feb trade
Exports:
EU - £11.3bn (+£0.4bn)
Non-EU - £11.9bn (-£0.1bn)
Imports
EU - £19.9bn (+£1.2bn)
Non-EU £15.3bn (-£1.1bn)
Absolutely horrible figures.
With Corrib basically supplying all of Ireland's gas, it means that non-EU imports will be reduced, as will EU exports.
We probably need to see it stripped out to get underlying trends for the trade balance.0 -
Must be time for another PB article stating that Cameron's popularity with voters will ensure REMAIN win?Plato_Says said:Remain are having an excellent week as ever.
0 -
UKIP's defence of council seats they already hold has not been great, in fact I would say that they have been very poor.
So in contrast to Rallings and Thatcher, I expect UKIP to lose seats.0 -
Is it me Ms Plato, or is the Guardian tippy-toeing to the right recently?taffys said:Plato_Says said:Things I Never Expected To See In The Guardian
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/07/9-million-pro-eu-leaflet-in-campaign?CMP=share_btn_twThe £9m pro-EU leaflet says just one thing: we’re panicking
Daniel Hannan
Maybe they've realised that lefties don't like to pay for subscriptions and they block adverts!0 -
-
I don't think it's the same one. I don't want to say anything else because it is explosive; that said if you search on the internet it has been reported outside the UK.
I tell you something though- the problem with the internet is that anyone can say anything whether true or false- and it gets picked up somewhere. It is impossible to police.FrankBooth said:
I wrote a couple of days ago about a 'deviant' politician who the media may be protecting for political reasons because they consider him useful. IMO that's not healthy.tyson said:Last night I alluded to a beast of a super injunction- and it wasn't this threesome celebrity thing. My friend says it is known amongst a few journos. That's what I thought might come out at the Shooting Star tonight.
0 -
You are right, of course. I'm surprised to see Dan Hannan making that mistake, he's usually very sharp.Cyclefree said:That's all very well. But while he is making this eloquent argument he is not making an eloquent argument to the voters to persuade them to his point of view. And this argument won't win the case.
0 -
BBC – 9 Rochdale sex abusers jailed for offences against girls
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-35982241
And still it continues, at this rate there’ll be no blokes left in the town.
0 -
Favourite comment from the Guido site to their Friday picture
Cue Bono • 36 minutes ago
"Wouldn't you prefer to use the back door?"
http://order-order.com/2016/04/08/friday-caption-contest-redacted-edition/#disqus_thread0 -
& that's before last night's little difficulty hit the fan.marke09 said:Britain Elects @britainelects 4m4 minutes ago
On David Cameron dealing with the issues of tax avoidance and tax havens:
Would trust: 23%
Would not trust: 68%
(via YouGov / 06 - 07 Apr)
Britain Elects @britainelects 4m4 minutes ago
On Jeremy Corbyn dealing with the issues of tax avoidance and tax havens:
Would trust: 39%
Would not trust: 47%
(via YouGov / 06 - 07 Apr)0 -
Before the Scottish referendum didn't the government send out a booklet in June and a leaflet in August, ahead of the referendum in the middle of September.
I can't remember any outrage at funds being used which would otherwise have gone to the NHS.0 -
Competition, what can't it do!Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes! You've almost got it. Unsuccessful ones going empty is the entire point. A hell of a lot better than the current system, where the bad schools are full because parents don't have any choice, and the local education authorities just want to protect the status quo.FrankBooth said:Trouble is won't you end up with huge mega schools and potentially reduced competition. And presumably the successful schools will need to expand (costing money) whilst the unsuccessful ones will go empty.
Your only mistake is that you don't have to end up with mega schools; successful chains of academies will open new ones, or take over the existing poor ones and transform them. The the existing poor ones will have a strong incentive to improve.0 -
First they emasculate the Chancellor then the PM. A spaceship landing from Mars might think the Tories had gone madmarke09 said:Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/7184185777459322880 -
Remain have got Cammo, Corbo,t he LD bloke whatshisname and the nippy sweetie who lost the Sindy ref.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Must be time for another PB article stating that Cameron's popularity with voters will ensure REMAIN win?Plato_Says said:Remain are having an excellent week as ever.
A winning team !0 -
That's all very well. But while he is making this eloquent argument he is not making an eloquent argument to the voters to persuade them to his point of view. And this argument won't win the case.Cyclefree said:Plato_Says said:From Dan, well indeed.
When the referendum legislation went through parliament, the foreign secretary, Philip Hammond, told MPs: “It will be for the yes and the no campaigns to lead the debate in the weeks preceding the poll. I can assure the house that the government has no intention of undermining those campaigns.” [snip]
People are not going to vote Leave because they're pissed off that the government spent some money on a leaflet ahead of the formal campaign. And it is, frankly, delusional to think that endlessly harping on about this is a winning argument.
Indeed so Ms Cyclefree, - is it too late for you to lead one of the Leave campaigns?0 -
presumably that 30% is Labour and Lib Dem votersMarkHopkins said:0 -
When you consider that Brexit support hovers at around 40% with YouGov it means that there are quite a few undecideds and Remain supporters who oppose this as well.MarkHopkins said:0 -
Interestingly David Davis was the europhile and Cameron the eurosceptic in the leadership election.TheScreamingEagles said:
David Davis for sure.Sean_F said:
How many Conservative backbenchers will be taking part?TheScreamingEagles said:
Such a shame I'm seeing Muse tomorrow night in Manchester, or I would be there (trolling them in person)marke09 said:Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/718418577745932288
They'd be better off signing an online petition
There is something deeply personal between those two that went badly wrong around 2008, but I'm afraid I have no idea what it was.0 -
There is a similar, depressing case going on at Oxford- I think against 7 men.SimonStClare said:
BBC – 9 Rochdale sex abusers jailed for offences against girls
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-35982241
And still it continues, at this rate there’ll be no blokes left in the town.0 -
That's a march against tax avoidance, it will be a bunch of lefties and useful idiots from unions.Roger said:
First they emasculate the Chancellor then the PM. A spaceship landing from Mars might think the Tories had gone madmarke09 said:Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/7184185777459322880 -
Piffle, it's just politics says Remain on here. And whining.
Perhaps a bit of humble pie is missing from their diet. Still, they always plough on telling us we're wrong.MarkHopkins said:0 -
That's a really good point :-)MaxPB said:
Surely that means the numbers are "unskewed" now!rcs1000 said:
If Corrib has come on stream, which I think it did at end January, than that will have skewed the numbers somewhat. Historically, we took gas from Norway (non-EU import), and sent it to Ireland (EU export).MaxPB said:More trade figures, another record EU trade deficit. More bad news from the index of production as well. Manufacturing in reverse again.
Feb trade
Exports:
EU - £11.3bn (+£0.4bn)
Non-EU - £11.9bn (-£0.1bn)
Imports
EU - £19.9bn (+£1.2bn)
Non-EU £15.3bn (-£1.1bn)
Absolutely horrible figures.
With Corrib basically supplying all of Ireland's gas, it means that non-EU imports will be reduced, as will EU exports.
We probably need to see it stripped out to get underlying trends for the trade balance.
I guess I was pointing out that the *changes* from the previous month are skewed.0 -
I wouldn't over-analyse. I'd bet you'd get very similar results if you asked a similar question regarding a government leaflet about any random issue.MaxPB said:When you consider that Brexit support hovers at around 40% with YouGov it means that there are quite a few undecideds and Remain supporters who oppose this as well.
0 -
Cameron won.Casino_Royale said:
Interestingly David Davis was the europhile and Cameron the eurosceptic in the leadership election.TheScreamingEagles said:
David Davis for sure.Sean_F said:
How many Conservative backbenchers will be taking part?TheScreamingEagles said:
Such a shame I'm seeing Muse tomorrow night in Manchester, or I would be there (trolling them in person)marke09 said:Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/718418577745932288
They'd be better off signing an online petition
There is something deeply personal between those two that went badly wrong around 2008, but I'm afraid I have no idea what it was.0 -
That is an argument about using up precious media time. In this case it is probably worthwhile using up media time to reduce the upside for REMAIN that they would have derived from it. From a PR viewpoint if the tag that this leaflet is deceiving and wastes Govt money develops a strong association with it, then the money is not only wasted but may turn into a negative for REMAIN. Cameron's ratings for trust have already been falling.Cyclefree said:
That's all very well. But while he is making this eloquent argument he is not making an eloquent argument to the voters to persuade them to his point of view. And this argument won't win the case.Plato_Says said:From Dan, well indeed.
When the referendum legislation went through parliament, the foreign secretary, Philip Hammond, told MPs: “It will be for the yes and the no campaigns to lead the debate in the weeks preceding the poll. I can assure the house that the government has no intention of undermining those campaigns.”
David Lidington, the likeable Europe minister, was even more emphatic: “Let me repeat that we have no intention of legislating to allow the government to do things such as mailshots, paid advertising or leafleting.”
Why, then, have ministers gone back on their words? Why have they chosen to ignore both Britain’s Electoral Commission, which has declared its unhappiness, and the basic rules on the conduct of referendums required by the Council of Europe, which states: “The use of public funds for campaigning purposes must be prohibited in order to guarantee equality of opportunity and the freedom of voters to form an opinion”? Why have they annoyed neutrals and quite a few Remain campaigners by so flagrant a disregard for fair play?
People are not going to vote Leave because they're pissed off that the government spent some money on a leaflet ahead of the formal campaign. And it is, frankly, delusional to think that endlessly harping on about this is a winning argument.0 -
That's all very well. But while he is making this eloquent argument he is not making an eloquent argument to the voters to persuade them to his point of view. And this argument won't win the case.Cyclefree said:Plato_Says said:From Dan, well indeed.
When the referendum legislation went through parliament, the foreign secretary, Philip Hammond, told MPs: “It will be for the yes and the no campaigns to lead the debate in the weeks preceding the poll. I can assure the house that the government has no intention of undermining those campaigns.”
David Lidington, the likeable Europe minister, was even more emphatic: “Let me repeat that we have no intention of legislating to allow the government to do things such as mailshots, paid advertising or leafleting.”
Why, then, have ministers gone back on their words? Why have they chosen to ignore both Britain’s Electoral Commission, which has declared its unhappiness, and the basic rules on the conduct of referendums required by the Council of Europe, which states: “The use of public funds for campaigning purposes must be prohibited in order to guarantee equality of opportunity and the freedom of voters to form an opinion”? Why have they annoyed neutrals and quite a few Remain campaigners by so flagrant a disregard for fair play?
People are not going to vote Leave because they're pissed off that the government spent some money on a leaflet ahead of the formal campaign. And it is, frankly, delusional to think that endlessly harping on about this is a winning argument.
I think the mileage is limited, of course, but I think it is legitimate to criticise the misuse of public funds for partisan purposes, in order to avoid spending caps.0 -
TSE
You lucky man.
I think I'd rather be watching the Muse to be honest. Those west country lads have done good and are probably now considered the greatest, global live act...TheScreamingEagles said:
Such a shame I'm seeing Muse tomorrow night in Manchester, or I would be there (trolling them in person)marke09 said:Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/718418577745932288
They'd be better off signing an online petition0 -
I do.Casino_Royale said:
Interestingly David Davis was the europhile and Cameron the eurosceptic in the leadership election.TheScreamingEagles said:
David Davis for sure.Sean_F said:
How many Conservative backbenchers will be taking part?TheScreamingEagles said:
Such a shame I'm seeing Muse tomorrow night in Manchester, or I would be there (trolling them in person)marke09 said:Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/718418577745932288
They'd be better off signing an online petition
There is something deeply personal between those two that went badly wrong around 2008, but I'm afraid I have no idea what it was.
When David Davis quit and won the by election, he was expecting Cameron to offer him his old job back PDQ.
Whereas Dave and pretty much the entire Tory Party thought Davis showed his unsuitability to hold high office by holding that vanity by-election.
The irony of it is, had he not resigned, he would have become Home Secretary in 2010, and become a great libertarian Home Secretary.0 -
There are very few people - on either side of the debate - making any sort of argument at all. If it continues at this rate, we may as well toss a coin.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are right, of course. I'm surprised to see Dan Hannan making that mistake, he's usually very sharp.Cyclefree said:That's all very well. But while he is making this eloquent argument he is not making an eloquent argument to the voters to persuade them to his point of view. And this argument won't win the case.
0 -
Whereas by resigning he helped to inflict Grayling on the world (though, to be honest, the responsibility for that lies with Dave).TheScreamingEagles said:
I do.Casino_Royale said:
Interestingly David Davis was the europhile and Cameron the eurosceptic in the leadership election.TheScreamingEagles said:
David Davis for sure.Sean_F said:
How many Conservative backbenchers will be taking part?TheScreamingEagles said:
Such a shame I'm seeing Muse tomorrow night in Manchester, or I would be there (trolling them in person)marke09 said:Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/718418577745932288
They'd be better off signing an online petition
There is something deeply personal between those two that went badly wrong around 2008, but I'm afraid I have no idea what it was.
When David Davis quit and won the by election, he was expecting Cameron to offer him his old job back PDQ.
Whereas Dave and pretty much the entire Tory Party thought Davis showed his unsuitability to hold high office by holding that vanity by-election.
The irony of it is, had he not resigned, he would have become Home Secretary in 2010, and become a great libertarian Home Secretary.0 -
Yes, David Davis would have been one of the truly great Home Secretaries and wouldn't have been scared into illiberal moves by the spooks in the same way as May.TheScreamingEagles said:
I do.Casino_Royale said:
Interestingly David Davis was the europhile and Cameron the eurosceptic in the leadership election.TheScreamingEagles said:
David Davis for sure.Sean_F said:
How many Conservative backbenchers will be taking part?TheScreamingEagles said:
Such a shame I'm seeing Muse tomorrow night in Manchester, or I would be there (trolling them in person)marke09 said:Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/718418577745932288
They'd be better off signing an online petition
There is something deeply personal between those two that went badly wrong around 2008, but I'm afraid I have no idea what it was.
When David Davis quit and won the by election, he was expecting Cameron to offer him his old job back PDQ.
Whereas Dave and pretty much the entire Tory Party thought Davis showed his unsuitability to hold high office by holding that vanity by-election.
The irony of it is, had he not resigned, he would have become Home Secretary in 2010, and become a great libertarian Home Secretary.0 -
If we are calling it as a coin flip on the eve of the vote then the campaign has worked out quite well for Leave, I think. (This is not the same as saying that Leave has run a good campaign, of course.)Cyclefree said:
There are very few people - on either side of the debate - making any sort of argument at all. If it continues at this rate, we may as well toss a coin.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are right, of course. I'm surprised to see Dan Hannan making that mistake, he's usually very sharp.Cyclefree said:That's all very well. But while he is making this eloquent argument he is not making an eloquent argument to the voters to persuade them to his point of view. And this argument won't win the case.
0 -
They have virtually none to defend: 2012 was before the UKIP surge.MikeK said:UKIP's defence of council seats they already hold has not been great, in fact I would say that they have been very poor.
So in contrast to Rallings and Thatcher, I expect UKIP to lose seats.
The forecast of 40 gains is about right IMHO.
R&T are likely wrong re the LibDems, mind. 2012 was a good year for them: 12% in the national opinion polls, and 16% NEV in the locals. They've lost a third of their support since then, so I can't see anything other than -20 to -60 for the Libs.0 -
Sorry if I am a bit pedantic but I don't recall the government "legislating" for mailshots, advertising or leaflets. The recent row about the governments leaflet seems to discount the fact that by precedent in the previous Europe referendum the government issued a leaflet. The formal campaigns within which rules are applied has not started yet and the government will keep to those rules.perdix said:Plato_Says said:From Dan, well indeed.
When the referendum legislation went through parliament, the foreign secretary, Philip Hammond, told MPs: “It will be for the yes and the no campaigns to lead the debate in the weeks preceding the poll. I can assure the house that the government has no intention of undermining those campaigns.”
David Lidington, the likeable Europe minister, was even more emphatic: “Let me repeat that we have no intention of legislating to allow the government to do things such as mailshots, paid advertising or leafleting.”
Why, then, have ministers gone back on their words? Why have they chosen to ignore both Britain’s Electoral Commission, which has declared its unhappiness, and the basic rules on the conduct of referendums required by the Council of Europe, which states: “The use of public funds for campaigning purposes must be prohibited in order to guarantee equality of opportunity and the freedom of voters to form an opinion”? Why have they annoyed neutrals and quite a few Remain campaigners by so flagrant a disregard for fair play?
But it feels like the campaign has started. I’m still solid for Remain, but my wife is coming to the view that if Cameron is going to behave like this over the leaflet, she might switch to Leave.
And I can’t say I blame her.0 -
Politically engaged people on site about politics have axes to grind shocker.Fernando said:Before the Scottish referendum didn't the government send out a booklet in June and a leaflet in August, ahead of the referendum in the middle of September.
I can't remember any outrage at funds being used which would otherwise have gone to the NHS.0 -
Didn't Davis discuss this with Cameron first?TheScreamingEagles said:
I do.Casino_Royale said:
Interestingly David Davis was the europhile and Cameron the eurosceptic in the leadership election.TheScreamingEagles said:
David Davis for sure.Sean_F said:
How many Conservative backbenchers will be taking part?TheScreamingEagles said:
Such a shame I'm seeing Muse tomorrow night in Manchester, or I would be there (trolling them in person)marke09 said:Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/718418577745932288
They'd be better off signing an online petition
There is something deeply personal between those two that went badly wrong around 2008, but I'm afraid I have no idea what it was.
When David Davis quit and won the by election, he was expecting Cameron to offer him his old job back PDQ.
Whereas Dave and pretty much the entire Tory Party thought Davis showed his unsuitability to hold high office by holding that vanity by-election.
The irony of it is, had he not resigned, he would have become Home Secretary in 2010, and become a great libertarian Home Secretary.
I'm not someone who detests the Right of the Conservative Party. As you say, David Davis would have been a great Home Secretary, IDS was and is passionate about welfare reform for the right reasons and I love Jacob Rees-Mogg.0 -
He would have done something else though that would have finished his mainstream political career. In his DNA, like Enoch Powell. Narcissistic, unhinged mavericks cannot stop themselves.
As much as I don't like May, she has been a blessing for Cameron- quietly effective, and trouble free. David Davis would have been the opposite.TheScreamingEagles said:
I do.Casino_Royale said:
Interestingly David Davis was the europhile and Cameron the eurosceptic in the leadership election.TheScreamingEagles said:
David Davis for sure.Sean_F said:
How many Conservative backbenchers will be taking part?TheScreamingEagles said:
Such a shame I'm seeing Muse tomorrow night in Manchester, or I would be there (trolling them in person)marke09 said:Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/718418577745932288
They'd be better off signing an online petition
There is something deeply personal between those two that went badly wrong around 2008, but I'm afraid I have no idea what it was.
When David Davis quit and won the by election, he was expecting Cameron to offer him his old job back PDQ.
Whereas Dave and pretty much the entire Tory Party thought Davis showed his unsuitability to hold high office by holding that vanity by-election.
The irony of it is, had he not resigned, he would have become Home Secretary in 2010, and become a great libertarian Home Secretary.0 -
0
-
It was less of a discussion more Davis telling Cameron I'm doing this, Cameron saying I think you're making a mistake, think about it, speak to the likes of Iain Dale, who urged him not to quit, but he went and quit within the hour.Casino_Royale said:
Didn't Davis discuss this with Cameron first?TheScreamingEagles said:
I do.Casino_Royale said:
Interestingly David Davis was the europhile and Cameron the eurosceptic in the leadership election.TheScreamingEagles said:
David Davis for sure.Sean_F said:
How many Conservative backbenchers will be taking part?TheScreamingEagles said:
Such a shame I'm seeing Muse tomorrow night in Manchester, or I would be there (trolling them in person)marke09 said:Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/718418577745932288
They'd be better off signing an online petition
There is something deeply personal between those two that went badly wrong around 2008, but I'm afraid I have no idea what it was.
When David Davis quit and won the by election, he was expecting Cameron to offer him his old job back PDQ.
Whereas Dave and pretty much the entire Tory Party thought Davis showed his unsuitability to hold high office by holding that vanity by-election.
The irony of it is, had he not resigned, he would have become Home Secretary in 2010, and become a great libertarian Home Secretary.
I'm not someone who detests the Right of the Conservative Party. As you say, David Davis would have been a great Home Secretary, IDS was and is passionate about welfare reform for the right reasons and I love Jacob Rees-Mogg.0 -
I can't wait to see Remainders response to these polls. More handwaving I suspect.
It all feels reminiscent of the Lib Dems Winning Here PB mantra prior to GE2015 that misled many of us.0 -
@AlastairMeeks Thanks for the link to the government EU Ref leaflet, which you posted for me on an earlier thread.0
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I used to hear a lot of stories about well known people doing things. That's what happens when you work with models and stylists. Gossip is a sort of currency.tyson said:I don't think it's the same one. I don't want to say anything else because it is explosive; that said if you search on the internet it has been reported outside the UK.
I tell you something though- the problem with the internet is that anyone can say anything whether true or false- and it gets picked up somewhere. It is impossible to police.FrankBooth said:
I wrote a couple of days ago about a 'deviant' politician who the media may be protecting for political reasons because they consider him useful. IMO that's not healthy.tyson said:Last night I alluded to a beast of a super injunction- and it wasn't this threesome celebrity thing. My friend says it is known amongst a few journos. That's what I thought might come out at the Shooting Star tonight.
The thing is that unless you have a newspaper to tell you what is a big one and what isn't you don't really think about them other than as attractive people doing what attractive people do.
More than once I've know about something that turned into a big story without it dawning on me that it was. Even as recently as the hacking inquiry I was told by someone who had been approached about a past relationship.
It was far more eye opening than most of the ones that have appeared but because she's not a tramp it's so far stayed under wraps. It struck me that the only ones that do get known are when someone wants them to be0 -
As a fellow Telegraph subscriber, can you log in since new website launched? Been trying for three days and it hangs on Beacon server connectionAnneJGP said:
@AlastairMeeks Thanks for the link to the government EU Ref leaflet, which you posted for me on an earlier thread.
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I have read that he didn't tell Cameron in advance that he was planning to resign.Casino_Royale said:
Didn't Davis discuss this with Cameron first?TheScreamingEagles said:
I do.Casino_Royale said:
Interestingly David Davis was the europhile and Cameron the eurosceptic in the leadership election.TheScreamingEagles said:
David Davis for sure.Sean_F said:
How many Conservative backbenchers will be taking part?TheScreamingEagles said:
Such a shame I'm seeing Muse tomorrow night in Manchester, or I would be there (trolling them in person)marke09 said:Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/718418577745932288
They'd be better off signing an online petition
There is something deeply personal between those two that went badly wrong around 2008, but I'm afraid I have no idea what it was.
When David Davis quit and won the by election, he was expecting Cameron to offer him his old job back PDQ.
Whereas Dave and pretty much the entire Tory Party thought Davis showed his unsuitability to hold high office by holding that vanity by-election.
The irony of it is, had he not resigned, he would have become Home Secretary in 2010, and become a great libertarian Home Secretary.
I'm not someone who detests the Right of the Conservative Party. As you say, David Davis would have been a great Home Secretary, IDS was and is passionate about welfare reform for the right reasons and I love Jacob Rees-Mogg.
I like Davis's interventions in defence of civil liberties but I find it hard to imagine him holding down a job in government. Well, he would cut a different figure if that were the case.0 -
Are there new polls?Plato_Says said:I can't wait to see Remainders response to these polls. More handwaving I suspect.
It all feels reminiscent of the Lib Dems Winning Here PB mantra prior to GE2015 that misled many of us.0 -
Even if UKIP lose most of the seats they're defending, they'll likely emerge with a net gain. I also think 40 is about right.rcs1000 said:
They have virtually none to defend: 2012 was before the UKIP surge.MikeK said:UKIP's defence of council seats they already hold has not been great, in fact I would say that they have been very poor.
So in contrast to Rallings and Thatcher, I expect UKIP to lose seats.
The forecast of 40 gains is about right IMHO.
R&T are likely wrong re the LibDems, mind. 2012 was a good year for them: 12% in the national opinion polls, and 16% NEV in the locals. They've lost a third of their support since then, so I can't see anything other than -20 to -60 for the Libs.
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It wasn't misleading.Plato_Says said:I can't wait to see Remainders response to these polls. More handwaving I suspect.
It all feels reminiscent of the Lib Dems Winning Here mantra PB prior to GE2015 that misled many of us.
The Crosby/Textor private polling for the Tories in March/April 2015 had the Lib Dems winning most of their Con facing seats.
It wasn't until Jan 2014 that the Tories start moving resources into the Lib Dem held seats, prior to that they thought it was a waste of resources.
I mean George Osborne was texting Nick Clegg on election day to persuade him to agree to a second coalition.0 -
Yes, he would definitely have gone out with a bang rather than a whimper. We don't have enough big beasts like that in politics any more. If Osborne is the current Tory big beast (other than Dave) then we've got problems.tyson said:He would have done something else though that would have finished his mainstream political career. In his DNA, like Enoch Powell. Narcissistic, unhinged mavericks cannot stop themselves.
As much as I don't like May, she has been a blessing for Cameron- quietly effective, and trouble free. David Davis would have been the opposite.TheScreamingEagles said:
I do.Casino_Royale said:
Interestingly David Davis was the europhile and Cameron the eurosceptic in the leadership election.TheScreamingEagles said:
David Davis for sure.Sean_F said:
How many Conservative backbenchers will be taking part?TheScreamingEagles said:
Such a shame I'm seeing Muse tomorrow night in Manchester, or I would be there (trolling them in person)marke09 said:Apparently there is going to be a David Cameron resign march in London tomorrow
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/718418577745932288
They'd be better off signing an online petition
There is something deeply personal between those two that went badly wrong around 2008, but I'm afraid I have no idea what it was.
When David Davis quit and won the by election, he was expecting Cameron to offer him his old job back PDQ.
Whereas Dave and pretty much the entire Tory Party thought Davis showed his unsuitability to hold high office by holding that vanity by-election.
The irony of it is, had he not resigned, he would have become Home Secretary in 2010, and become a great libertarian Home Secretary.0 -
TCPoliticalBetting said:
That is an argument about using up precious media time. In this case it is probably worthwhile using up media time to reduce the upside for REMAIN that they would have derived from it. From a PR viewpoint if the tag that this leaflet is deceiving and wastes Govt money develops a strong association with it, then the money is not only wasted but may turn into a negative for REMAIN. Cameron's ratings for trust have already been falling.Cyclefree said:
That's all very well. But while he is making this eloquent argument he is not making an eloquent argument to the voters to persuade them to his point of view. And this argument won't win the case.Plato_Says said:From Dan, well indeed.
People are not going to vote Leave because they're pissed off that the government spent some money on a leaflet ahead of the formal campaign. And it is, frankly, delusional to think that endlessly harping on about this is a winning argument.
Maybe. Most of these leaflets end up in the bin. It's just as likely that more people might read it than not.
When I was a barrister in court one of the more experienced barristers in chambers told me that, from time to time, your witness would give you - despite all your expectations and preparation - the most unhelpful answer possible. In that case - and if it was a jury trial - he said that you should ask him to repeat it slowly, write something down and then move on to the next question without revealing in any way your surprise. That way the jury would simply assume that this was all OK and nothing to worry about. The last thing you should do, he said, was to draw attention to the fact that the witness had just done the equivalent of shooting you in the face.
All Leave have done this week is give the impression that they're more interested in themselves, more interested in some private Tory party vendetta and embarrassed that they did not have the wit to do what the government has done and commissioned their own leaflet.
A far better response would have been to say that it was a disgrace that such a leaflet should cost £9 million, this was an example of government waste similar to [insert example of egregious spending by EU body] and the latter was one of the many reasons why Britain would be better off out along with [insert other reasons / path to sunny uplands etc here].
And then move on.
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