I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
2nd generation syndrome!
AIUI, there's some evidence, including his father's statement, that he did. One has, on all the available evidence, to feel extremely sorry for the father.
The Toon is already buzzing for later. Can’t wait to get pumped by Spurs and not care one bit 🏳️🏴
It was reported that are to spend 50 million in the January window so hardly a bonanza
I think the most important issue is for them is to avoid relegation if they want to attract stars for next season
We’re not after a bonanza. The stadium has been jet washed and the dead pigeons removed this week from the roof netting so already far exceeding my expectations
On that, a new transparent roof (must be possible these days) would be good. There’s nothing worse than a game at St James’ Park with that horrible pattern on half the pitch.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
The Toon is already buzzing for later. Can’t wait to get pumped by Spurs and not care one bit 🏳️🏴
It was reported that are to spend 50 million in the January window so hardly a bonanza
I think the most important issue is for them is to avoid relegation if they want to attract stars for next season
We’re not after a bonanza. The stadium has been jet washed and the dead pigeons removed this week from the roof netting so already far exceeding my expectations
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
How should we stop British citizens coming in?
All British citizens travelling to and from Somalia should be fully screened before and after travel as to their reasons for doing so and monitored when there by the security services ideally. If they are there to become a jihadi they should be refused entry back into the UK or be charged and put in jail
Would it be that easy?
What's your reason for travelling to Somalia? To become a jihadi. Sorry, you can't go.
What a stupid point, we have one of the most sophisticated intelligence services in the world, they are quite capable of doing detailed background checks on those travelling to and from Somalia and their reasons for doing so
Lol you want a police state where British Citizens are detained for the crime of having the wrong colour skin or religion. "Are you travelling to become a Jihadi" FFS - you are a walking parody of a politician. Anything to deflect from the hate that you personally are whipping up and the tragic consequences.
An MP - a well respected Conservative MP - has just been murdered. Have a bit of dignity man.
No, where have I said I would ban Islam? Free expression of Islam is fine in the UK, travelling to a country full of Jihadi extremists is not unless with a clear valid reason for doing so checked and confirmed by the intelligence services.
That would also have helped avoid the tragic murder we saw last week.
If it annoys wet left liberals like you prepared to scream 'racist' at anyone who disagrees with you, all to the good!
You don't want to ban Islam. But you do want to intern British citizens for their crime of having the wrong religion and background.
Your latter sentence is why David Amess has been murdered. You are propagating the hate that drives lunatics to kill.
Nope, nothing to do with having the wrong religion, everything to do with joining extremist jihadi groups to plot terror attacks.
The fact you and the ultra liberal left accuse anybody who points that out of hate speech and being a racist is where the problem lies as you want to end all discussion about actually tackling the problem to suit your leftwing agenda
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community with their young people.
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Back in 2016, there were Border Force at the gate in Dubai, checking everyone getting on a BA flight to London. 20 questions about purpose of visit, where we were staying, people we would be meeting. Fast but comprehensive, I got the feeling they were looking for someone specific (who wasn’t me, thankfully!)
Some years ago I spent 4 months in Egypt on a total immersion course in Classical Arabic. Learning Arabic must be the number one reasons jihadis give for trips abroad because I was detained and questioned at Heathrow for 10 hours. That experience on return to the UK was more likely to radicalise somebody than anything I experienced in al-Qahirah.
As might be expected I refused to cooperate and would not answer any questions.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
The Toon is already buzzing for later. Can’t wait to get pumped by Spurs and not care one bit 🏳️🏴
It was reported that are to spend 50 million in the January window so hardly a bonanza
I think the most important issue is for them is to avoid relegation if they want to attract stars for next season
We’re not after a bonanza. The stadium has been jet washed and the dead pigeons removed this week from the roof netting so already far exceeding my expectations
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
How should we stop British citizens coming in?
All British citizens travelling to and from Somalia should be fully screened before and after travel as to their reasons for doing so and monitored when there by the security services ideally. If they are there to become a jihadi they should be refused entry back into the UK or be charged and put in jail
How does that deal with online radicalisation, which is probably far more prevalent? I have just completed my Prevent training and the focus was very much on online radicalisation and noticing changes in behaviour which might indicate matters of concern. Now this was for schools where there are people around to notice such things.
But for a 25 year old who may not have been around people much or at all during lockdown? Spending a lot of time on computers? How does that get spotted? And why would that fact alone be a concern? After all, most of us have probably spent much more time on the internet during lockdown than normal.
So it is easy to see how someone could get radicalised under the radar. And your border controls do nothing to deal with this sort of risk.
Apparently this chap was one of 6,000 people referred to the Prevent programme. 6,000. How many people do each of those need to stop them doing something awful? We are talking about thousands of people in multiple agencies. And how are the riskiest ones prioritised? I do not know what resources are available to Prevent but as well as risk prioritisation issues I suspect there is also a question of resources.
Remember also that some jihadis can be quite good at pretending that they have reformed, as in the case of the "reformed" jihadi prisoner who killed the two people in Fishmongers Hall in 2019.
No-one quite appreciated it at the time, but Theresa May's decision to call that early 2017 general election was genuine strategic genius...
By playing cut-and-run politics combined with a dire campaign she almost let Jeremy Corbyn's Labour party win. Which means Labour's hard left is now unshakeably convinced its policies can win...
Which will constantly undermine any moderate centre-left Labour leader aiming to make the party electable again. Which leaves Labour constantly on the back foot and the Conservatives in the ascendant.
What I find truly astonishing is how acquiescent Labour were in that elimination
Labour's problem was they had run for years - nay decades - on "not being London Tories" - the SNP simply stole that tune and played it better - and not having a London based party themselves, were immune to "in-hock to London" accusations.
As yea sow, so shall yea reap.
The only thing I can see ending SNP hegemony is splits within the independence movement - and while that may be happening among some activists there is very little suggestion its happening electorally.
The succession to Sturgeon will be a key moment. It could lead to the SNP being more interested in fighting each other than the Tories/London.
She's looking a bit ragged these days and clearly working for an international sinecure after a lengthy period in office.
Her husband's control of the SNP has helped secure her position but frankly looks a bit tin pot and is getting far more attention than it used to. It doesn't help that he is incompetent either. I think we are near the end but she needs something else to do first. She is too young to simply retire.
‘clearly working for an international sinecure’
I remember a lot of that type of chat leading up to the Salmond enquiry, lo and behold as prescient as predictions of the end of SNP honeymoons. I’ve no idea what her hopes and fears are, but I’m not sure why Sturgeon, noted for being a gradualist and cautious long term strategist, would bail out half way through.
From a Unionist pov, I’d judge pinning your hopes on the resignations of rivals rather than your own offer to voters as not necessarily to the Union’s advantage, particularly considering the quality of leadership they’re offering. Ruth, Kezia and Willie are beginning to look like colossi..
I know you disagree TUD but I hope she gets a Hancocking when it comes to it. She will be loaded and have no worries but at least we will not have to suffer seeing her pop up all the time like that gormless turd Brown.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
Border controls on British citizens? 🤔
No.
If they are going to countries known to have a high level of jihadi extremists certainly.
You may take your usual ultra libertarian line, I am with the silent majority of Britons on this
British citizens being free to travel is not something the "silent majority of Britons" oppose.
Just what kind of "border controls" are you proposing exactly? British citizens are free to travel and quite right too, that's something that almost every Briton accepts: Including Her Majesty the Queen on the front page of your Passport if you've ever read that.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
Border controls on British citizens? 🤔
No.
If they are going to countries known to have a high level of jihadi extremists certainly.
You may take your usual ultra libertarian line, I am with the silent majority of Britons on this
Mate we are a country with a high level of jihadi extremists.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
How should we stop British citizens coming in?
All British citizens travelling to and from Somalia should be fully screened before and after travel as to their reasons for doing so and monitored when there by the security services ideally. If they are there to become a jihadi they should be refused entry back into the UK or be charged and put in jail
Would it be that easy?
What's your reason for travelling to Somalia? To become a jihadi. Sorry, you can't go.
What a stupid point, we have one of the most sophisticated intelligence services in the world, they are quite capable of doing detailed background checks on those travelling to and from Somalia and their reasons for doing so
Lol you want a police state where British Citizens are detained for the crime of having the wrong colour skin or religion. "Are you travelling to become a Jihadi" FFS - you are a walking parody of a politician. Anything to deflect from the hate that you personally are whipping up and the tragic consequences.
An MP - a well respected Conservative MP - has just been murdered. Have a bit of dignity man.
No, where have I said I would ban Islam? Free expression of Islam is fine in the UK, travelling to a country full of Jihadi extremists is not unless with a clear valid reason for doing so checked and confirmed by the intelligence services.
That would also have helped avoid the tragic murder we saw last week.
If it annoys wet left liberals like you prepared to scream 'racist' at anyone who disagrees with you, all to the good!
You don't want to ban Islam. But you do want to intern British citizens for their crime of having the wrong religion and background.
Your latter sentence is why David Amess has been murdered. You are propagating the hate that drives lunatics to kill.
Nope, nothing to do with having the wrong religion, everything to do with joining extremist jihadi groups to plot terror attacks.
The fact you and the ultra liberal left accuse anybody who points that out of hate speech and being a racist is where the problem lies as you want to end all discussion about actually tackling the problem to suit your leftwing agenda
You are a prominent member of a right wing party in a notoriously xenophobic part of the country, it is entirely reasonable therefore to assume that you are a racist and to treat you with suspicion, possibly to the extent of having the police keep an eye on you, just in case.
No-one quite appreciated it at the time, but Theresa May's decision to call that early 2017 general election was genuine strategic genius...
By playing cut-and-run politics combined with a dire campaign she almost let Jeremy Corbyn's Labour party win. Which means Labour's hard left is now unshakeably convinced its policies can win...
Which will constantly undermine any moderate centre-left Labour leader aiming to make the party electable again. Which leaves Labour constantly on the back foot and the Conservatives in the ascendant.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
Border controls on British citizens? 🤔
No.
If they are going to countries known to have a high level of jihadi extremists certainly.
You may take your usual ultra libertarian line, I am with the silent majority of Britons on this
Mate we are a country with a high level of jihadi extremists.
And will get more so by the day the more we allow young Britons to go to countries like Somalia to get radicalised
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community with their young people.
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We dramatically over estimate the ability of border controls to control this. I have discussed this with 2 people in the know. One was a senior customers officer at Heathrow, the other an ex Royal Protection Officer who now heads security at a certain palace:
a) Nearly everyone stopped is through prior intelligence
b) To walk through, the main criteria is confidence
Just to add re recent trips by me:
a) None of the covid documentation was checked properly. No official checked them, just boarding staff and nothing on returning to the UK and any old document would have done provided it looked ok (typed, headed, etc) and had the word 'negative' and dated appropriately. None were taken out of my plastic wallet so only the first page was looked at and they have no idea the nurse, doctor or whoever whose paperwork I showed exists or not, or whether I just created it on my computer. Ditto the PLF. They are relying on passenger honesty to do the right thing.
b) My cycling partner cycled onto the ferry on the return to the UK without a ticket (I had both). Even me shouting at him from 100m behind that he didn't have his ticket seemed not to raise any concerns. No one cared. We were obviously not terrorists.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
Border controls on British citizens? 🤔
No.
If they are going to countries known to have a high level of jihadi extremists certainly.
You may take your usual ultra libertarian line, I am with the silent majority of Britons on this
Mate we are a country with a high level of jihadi extremists.
And will get more so by the day the more we allow young Britons to go to countries like Somalia to get radicalised
"allow"
So now you wish to forbid Britons from travelling abroad?
That's never been a British policy or something Britons support. I think the policy you're looking for is that of the Iron Curtain.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
That’s a bit extreme, what about your intolerance of the likes of ‘Laura Pillock’ and the other oh so witty names and descriptions You applied to Corbynites and your invective against them and wanting them driven from the Party. I don’t think anyone would dream of drawing a similar parallel, rightly so.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
How should we stop British citizens coming in?
All British citizens travelling to and from Somalia should be fully screened before and after travel as to their reasons for doing so and monitored when there by the security services ideally. If they are there to become a jihadi they should be refused entry back into the UK or be charged and put in jail
How does that deal with online radicalisation, which is probably far more prevalent? I have just completed my Prevent training and the focus was very much on online radicalisation and noticing changes in behaviour which might indicate matters of concern. Now this was for schools where there are people around to notice such things.
But for a 25 year old who may not have been around people much or at all during lockdown? Spending a lot of time on computers? How does that get spotted? And why would that fact alone be a concern? After all, most of us have probably spent much more time on the internet during lockdown than normal.
So it is easy to see how someone could get radicalised under the radar. And your border controls do nothing to deal with this sort of risk.
Apparently this chap was one of 6,000 people referred to the Prevent programme. 6,000. How many people do each of those need to stop them doing something awful? We are talking about thousands of people in multiple agencies. And how are the riskiest ones prioritised? I do not know what resources are available to Prevent but as well as risk prioritisation issues I suspect there is also a question of resources.
Remember also that some jihadis can be quite good at pretending that they have reformed, as in the case of the "reformed" jihadi prisoner who killed the two people in Fishmongers Hall in 2019.
You can now be arrested for accessing extremist sites promoting Jihadism online.
Yes I agree that also has to be part of the battle enforcing those laws and arresting those who produce jihadi websites as well as tighter border controls
Back in 2016, there were Border Force at the gate in Dubai, checking everyone getting on a BA flight to London. 20 questions about purpose of visit, where we were staying, people we would be meeting. Fast but comprehensive, I got the feeling they were looking for someone specific (who wasn’t me, thankfully!)
Some years ago I spent 4 months in Egypt on a total immersion course in Classical Arabic. Learning Arabic must be the number one reasons jihadis give for trips abroad because I was detained and questioned at Heathrow for 10 hours. That experience on return to the UK was more likely to radicalise somebody than anything I experienced in al-Qahirah.
As might be expected I refused to cooperate and would not answer any questions.
Must have been tough biting your lip when they asked you if you wanted to smash the state.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
Border controls on British citizens? 🤔
No.
If they are going to countries known to have a high level of jihadi extremists certainly.
You may take your usual ultra libertarian line, I am with the silent majority of Britons on this
British citizens being free to travel is not something the "silent majority of Britons" oppose.
Just what kind of "border controls" are you proposing exactly? British citizens are free to travel and quite right too, that's something that almost every Briton accepts: Including Her Majesty the Queen on the front page of your Passport if you've ever read that.
Let's not even bother which the black list of countries where Britain's Last True Patriot would have British citizens detained for the crime of visiting them, being linked to there or eventually having the wrong name.
Instead let's examine the Border Force. Tory run for 11 years an incapable of operating Heathrow so that Brits don't have the risk of a 4 hour queue to get into their own country.
How exactly this government is to stop British citizens from going to the wrong places for the wrong reasons is laughable. Even if it is the racist fantasy of a desperate fool.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
How should we stop British citizens coming in?
All British citizens travelling to and from Somalia should be fully screened before and after travel as to their reasons for doing so and monitored when there by the security services ideally. If they are there to become a jihadi they should be refused entry back into the UK or be charged and put in jail
Would it be that easy?
What's your reason for travelling to Somalia? To become a jihadi. Sorry, you can't go.
Several years ago at the height of ISIS I recall Police/Border Force officers asking everyone boarding an Emirates flight to Dubai the purpose of their trip.
It’s amazing how much info the security services have access to.
About 10 years ago I was living in Switzerland and went to St Petersburg for a long weekend via London.
On the way back whilst at the gate waiting for my flight back to Geneva from London my partner and I were approached by a guy in a suit who knew exactly who we were asked us to step away into a quiet area and asked us about our trip to St Petersburg, what we did and how it was and if we had any trouble with the authorities.
The fact that it wasn’t even as we got off the flight from St P but we were approached in person on our seats at the gate in transit was very interesting. Didn’t even ask us if we were Mr X and Ms Y but addressed us by name straight away.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
Crap.
The vast majority of Tories agree with me, as does much of the country hence we have a Conservative government with an overall majority still leading in the polls.
If you throw your toys out the pram and shout 'racist' at merely discussing better enforcement of security to tackle jihadi extremism all to the good, it will keep you and your fellow left liberals further away from power than ever!
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
Border controls on British citizens? 🤔
No.
If they are going to countries known to have a high level of jihadi extremists certainly.
You may take your usual ultra libertarian line, I am with the silent majority of Britons on this
Mate we are a country with a high level of jihadi extremists.
And will get more so by the day the more we allow young Britons to go to countries like Somalia to get radicalised
"allow"
So now you wish to forbid Britons from travelling abroad?
That's never been a British policy or something Britons support. I think the policy you're looking for is that of the Iron Curtain.
How many Britons want to travel on holiday to Somalia? Less than 1% I would imagine and those that do if going for a legitimate reason should be happy to have that checked out
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
Border controls on British citizens? 🤔
No.
If they are going to countries known to have a high level of jihadi extremists certainly.
You may take your usual ultra libertarian line, I am with the silent majority of Britons on this
Mate we are a country with a high level of jihadi extremists.
And will get more so by the day the more we allow young Britons to go to countries like Somalia to get radicalised
I don't think a trip to Somalia is necessary.
Apart from the one born in Jamaica I think the furthest any of the 7/7 bombers got from Yorkshire was canoeing in Snowdonia National Park.
The reason Labour have been smashed by the SNP is not that they have attacked them insufficiently. Anyone who has seen the invective spouted by SLab members and activists at the SNP would find that ridiculous.
The reason is much simpler. A very large percentage of former Labour voters were in favour of independence.
If your party is implacably opposed to a policy that a large amount of your voters are in favour of you have only two options.
1) bring your voters round to your point of view with well constructed arguments. 2) call them Nazi's and watch as they abandon you and vote for party that favours their position instead.
Labour went with option 2.
It's that simple.
It really isn't. If that were the case there would be an overwhelming majority in Scotland for independence instead of a minority. What we are now seeing, bizarrely, is situations where people vote for the SNP but don't seem to favour independence. They vote for the SNP because they are the centre left party, just as Labour used to be.
And whatever activists say about the SNP, it is not what Labour says to the voters. I live in Dundee West. Labour leaflets at the last election said vote Labour to stop the Tories. The SNP have a 10k+ majority in the seat, the Tories are nowhere and Labour did not lay a glove on the SNP. They were massacred again and not by the Tories. Its madness.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
Crap.
The vast majority of Tories agree with me, as does much of the country hence we have a Conservative government with an overall majority still leading in the polls.
If you throw your toys out the pram and shout 'racist' at merely discussing better enforcement of security to tackle jihadi extremism all to the good, it will keep you and your fellow left liberals further away from power than ever!
Please show me a poll showing that most of the country, or even most Tories, believe that people shouldn't be free to travel abroad.
Better enforcement of security is a good idea, and the intelligence services are good at what they do. That's not what you're talking about though.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
How should we stop British citizens coming in?
All British citizens travelling to and from Somalia should be fully screened before and after travel as to their reasons for doing so and monitored when there by the security services ideally. If they are there to become a jihadi they should be refused entry back into the UK or be charged and put in jail
Would it be that easy?
What's your reason for travelling to Somalia? To become a jihadi. Sorry, you can't go.
What a stupid point, we have one of the most sophisticated intelligence services in the world, they are quite capable of doing detailed background checks on those travelling to and from Somalia and their reasons for doing so
Lol you want a police state where British Citizens are detained for the crime of having the wrong colour skin or religion. "Are you travelling to become a Jihadi" FFS - you are a walking parody of a politician. Anything to deflect from the hate that you personally are whipping up and the tragic consequences.
An MP - a well respected Conservative MP - has just been murdered. Have a bit of dignity man.
No, where have I said I would ban Islam? Free expression of Islam is fine in the UK, travelling to a country full of Jihadi extremists is not unless with a clear valid reason for doing so checked and confirmed by the intelligence services.
That would also have helped avoid the tragic murder we saw last week.
If it annoys wet left liberals like you prepared to scream 'racist' at anyone who disagrees with you, all to the good!
You don't want to ban Islam. But you do want to intern British citizens for their crime of having the wrong religion and background.
Your latter sentence is why David Amess has been murdered. You are propagating the hate that drives lunatics to kill.
Nope, nothing to do with having the wrong religion, everything to do with joining extremist jihadi groups to plot terror attacks.
The fact you and the ultra liberal left accuse anybody who points that out of hate speech and being a racist is where the problem lies as you want to end all discussion about actually tackling the problem to suit your leftwing agenda
You are a prominent member of a right wing party in a notoriously xenophobic part of the country, it is entirely reasonable therefore to assume that you are a racist and to treat you with suspicion, possibly to the extent of having the police keep an eye on you, just in case.
The Conservative Party is not Britain First even though you clearly think it is and hence no surprise you and your fellow leftwingers are still in opposition as you are so out of touch with most voters!
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now
The Tory party and its core vote is changing. You haven’t got it yet.
@HYUFD offered to pay for me to join Labour last night so maybe others could qualify for his free offer
He seems oblivious to the fact the Tories have changed and there are new blue collar Tories up and down the country. Someone made the comment the new Tories are white van man from Stoke. It’s not far off. They have far different priorities. IHT is never going to affect them. How Boris keeps his new coalition together who knows.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
That’s a bit extreme, what about your intolerance of the likes of ‘Laura Pillock’ and the other oh so witty names and descriptions You applied to Corbynites and your invective against them and wanting them driven from the Party. I don’t think anyone would dream of drawing a similar parallel, rightly so.
I have already said "mea culpa". But I am questioning the intelligence of Pillock, Ding Dong Burgon et al. I am not questioning their patriotism, their right to their views or saying their are traitors to their country.
There is a clear and obvious difference between honest British satire and weaponising politicians.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
Border controls on British citizens? 🤔
No.
If they are going to countries known to have a high level of jihadi extremists certainly.
You may take your usual ultra libertarian line, I am with the silent majority of Britons on this
Mate we are a country with a high level of jihadi extremists.
And will get more so by the day the more we allow young Britons to go to countries like Somalia to get radicalised
I don't think a trip to Somalia is necessary.
Apart from the one born in Jamaica I think the furthest any of the 7/7 bombers got from Yorkshire was canoeing in Snowdonia National Park.
HYUFD has this very twisted notion that in order to become a terrorist one first needs to go to Somalia, or Afghanistan, or the like.
Much easier to have that Quixotic vision than facing the dark truth that terrorism is far more of a domestic concern.
Thankfully the intelligence services are a lot more intelligent than that.
It's not "Tories" using bent statistics, it's iSage who say "look at how Europe has mask mandates and better outcomes than "England" "- then quote UK numbers which include Scotland and Wales, and which have similar mask mandates to those proposed by iSage, yet worse outcomes than England.....
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community with their young people.
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
Crap.
The vast majority of Tories agree with me, as does much of the country hence we have a Conservative government with an overall majority still leading in the polls.
If you throw your toys out the pram and shout 'racist' at merely discussing better enforcement of security to tackle jihadi extremism all to the good, it will keep you and your fellow left liberals further away from power than ever!
Please show me a poll showing that most of the country, or even most Tories, believe that people shouldn't be free to travel abroad.
Better enforcement of security is a good idea, and the intelligence services are good at what they do. That's not what you're talking about though.
There is a difference in travelling to Spain and Florida on holiday and travelling to Somalia to be radicalised.
The reason Labour have been smashed by the SNP is not that they have attacked them insufficiently. Anyone who has seen the invective spouted by SLab members and activists at the SNP would find that ridiculous.
The reason is much simpler. A very large percentage of former Labour voters were in favour of independence.
If your party is implacably opposed to a policy that a large amount of your voters are in favour of you have only two options.
1) bring your voters round to your point of view with well constructed arguments. 2) call them Nazi's and watch as they abandon you and vote for party that favours their position instead.
Labour went with option 2.
It's that simple.
It really isn't. If that were the case there would be an overwhelming majority in Scotland for independence instead of a minority. What we are now seeing, bizarrely, is situations where people vote for the SNP but don't seem to favour independence. They vote for the SNP because they are the centre left party, just as Labour used to be.
And whatever activists say about the SNP, it is not what Labour says to the voters. I live in Dundee West. Labour leaflets at the last election said vote Labour to stop the Tories. The SNP have a 10k+ majority in the seat, the Tories are nowhere and Labour did not lay a glove on the SNP. They were massacred again and not by the Tories. Its madness.
Do you think leaflets saying vote Labour to stop the SNP would make any difference? It would just confirm what is pretty much fact that they're guddling in the same pool of voters as SCons and SLDs.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now
The Tory party and its core vote is changing. You haven’t got it yet.
@HYUFD offered to pay for me to join Labour last night so maybe others could qualify for his free offer
He seems oblivious to the fact the Tories have changed and there are new blue collar Tories up and down the country. Someone made the comment the new Tories are white van man from Stoke. It’s not far off. They have far different priorities. IHT is never going to affect them. How Boris keeps his new coalition together who knows.
White Van Man in the RedWall is as anti jihadi as anyone and hardline on law and order.
Property owners and their heirs in the South are also still Tory.
The Tories need both for a majority and as the latest polls show that coalition is still together with the Tories still ahead
It's not "Tories" using bent statistics, it's iSage who say "look at how Europe has mask mandates and better outcomes than "England" "- then quote UK numbers which include Scotland and Wales, and which have similar mask mandates to those proposed by iSage, yet worse outcomes than England.....
Self Appointed Isage with a track record of being mostly wrong on everything yet the media, in its desire to paint as gloom a picture as possible, keep going back to them.
Back in 2016, there were Border Force at the gate in Dubai, checking everyone getting on a BA flight to London. 20 questions about purpose of visit, where we were staying, people we would be meeting. Fast but comprehensive, I got the feeling they were looking for someone specific (who wasn’t me, thankfully!)
Some years ago I spent 4 months in Egypt on a total immersion course in Classical Arabic. Learning Arabic must be the number one reasons jihadis give for trips abroad because I was detained and questioned at Heathrow for 10 hours. That experience on return to the UK was more likely to radicalise somebody than anything I experienced in al-Qahirah.
As might be expected I refused to cooperate and would not answer any questions.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now
The Tory party and its core vote is changing. You haven’t got it yet.
@HYUFD offered to pay for me to join Labour last night so maybe others could qualify for his free offer
He seems oblivious to the fact the Tories have changed and there are new blue collar Tories up and down the country. Someone made the comment the new Tories are white van man from Stoke. It’s not far off. They have far different priorities. IHT is never going to affect them. How Boris keeps his new coalition together who knows.
White Van Man in the RedWall is as anti jihadi as anyone and hardline on law and order.
Property owners and their heirs in the South are also still Tory.
The Tories need both for a majority and as the latest polls show that coalition is still together with the Tories still ahead
I doubt you have any idea what blue collar, working class, Tories in places like Durham actually want or expect from a govt.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
Border controls on British citizens? 🤔
No.
If they are going to countries known to have a high level of jihadi extremists certainly.
You may take your usual ultra libertarian line, I am with the silent majority of Britons on this
Mate we are a country with a high level of jihadi extremists.
And will get more so by the day the more we allow young Britons to go to countries like Somalia to get radicalised
I don't think a trip to Somalia is necessary.
Apart from the one born in Jamaica I think the furthest any of the 7/7 bombers got from Yorkshire was canoeing in Snowdonia National Park.
HYUFD has this very twisted notion that in order to become a terrorist one first needs to go to Somalia, or Afghanistan, or the like.
Much easier to have that Quixotic vision than facing the dark truth that terrorism is far more of a domestic concern.
Thankfully the intelligence services are a lot more intelligent than that.
It is both, as I posted earlier there are plenty of young Britons going to the likes of Somalia to be radicalised.
That needs to be stopped as much as stopping jihadi websites and closing down jihadi meetings and preaching in the UK
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
That’s a bit extreme, what about your intolerance of the likes of ‘Laura Pillock’ and the other oh so witty names and descriptions You applied to Corbynites and your invective against them and wanting them driven from the Party. I don’t think anyone would dream of drawing a similar parallel, rightly so.
I have already said "mea culpa". But I am questioning the intelligence of Pillock, Ding Dong Burgon et al. I am not questioning their patriotism, their right to their views or saying their are traitors to their country.
There is a clear and obvious difference between honest British satire and weaponising politicians.
It is not really satire and I am not saying you questioned their patriotism. But you have called for them to be driven out of the party, a part you are no longer a member of. Something you are criticising HYUFD for stating Big G should do.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now
The Tory party and its core vote is changing. You haven’t got it yet.
@HYUFD offered to pay for me to join Labour last night so maybe others could qualify for his free offer
He seems oblivious to the fact the Tories have changed and there are new blue collar Tories up and down the country. Someone made the comment the new Tories are white van man from Stoke. It’s not far off. They have far different priorities. IHT is never going to affect them. How Boris keeps his new coalition together who knows.
White Van Man in the RedWall is as anti jihadi as anyone and hardline on law and order.
Property owners and their heirs in the South are also still Tory.
The Tories need both for a majority and as the latest polls show that coalition is still together with the Tories still ahead
I doubt you have any idea what blue collar, working class, Tories in places like Durham actually want or expect from a govt.
Nor quite clearly do you.
They voted Tory as they are pro Brexit, wanted tighter immigration and border controls and they also tend to want a hardline on crime and those who may commit terrorist acts
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
Border controls on British citizens? 🤔
No.
If they are going to countries known to have a high level of jihadi extremists certainly.
You may take your usual ultra libertarian line, I am with the silent majority of Britons on this
Mate we are a country with a high level of jihadi extremists.
And will get more so by the day the more we allow young Britons to go to countries like Somalia to get radicalised
I don't think a trip to Somalia is necessary.
Apart from the one born in Jamaica I think the furthest any of the 7/7 bombers got from Yorkshire was canoeing in Snowdonia National Park.
HYUFD has this very twisted notion that in order to become a terrorist one first needs to go to Somalia, or Afghanistan, or the like.
Much easier to have that Quixotic vision than facing the dark truth that terrorism is far more of a domestic concern.
Thankfully the intelligence services are a lot more intelligent than that.
It is both, as I posted earlier there are plenty of young Britons going to the likes of Somalia to be radicalised.
That needs to be stopped as much as stopping jihadi websites and closing down jihadi meetings and preaching in the UK
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
The significance of him being a constituent of Starmers is that he shouldn't have been at Amess's constituency surgery. It is normal for such requests to be redirected to the appropriate MP. Admittedly this can be a problem when your own MP is a waste of space, but the first step in security should be that surgery's are by appointment only.
This can help with security. It is normal for appointments in my line to be labelled "not to be seen alone" or "not for female staff" because of past inappropriate behaviour, for example.
Indeed, and I know security has been beefed up. My sis-in-law used to work for a Labour MP when they were in government and they would just book a venue and keep an eye out for the people who shouldn't be allowed in.
Point is that MPs and their staff do not know every person in their constituency. We can't make such things completely secure without utterly changing what they are.
It wouldn't be unreasonable to check names against the electoral register and against the Prevent list of referrals. This would not mean refusing to see but could mean seeing in a safer situation.
Sadly I think we will have to. The problem is that MPs also go to public places where they are not able to have this protection. Jo Cox was murdered in the street. As was David Amess.
David Amess was murdered in a Church serving his constituents who loved him
Should the fact he was killed in a church make it worse? I think so, but maybe that is an old fashioned view
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
Crap.
The vast majority of Tories agree with me, as does much of the country hence we have a Conservative government with an overall majority still leading in the polls.
If you throw your toys out the pram and shout 'racist' at merely discussing better enforcement of security to tackle jihadi extremism all to the good, it will keep you and your fellow left liberals further away from power than ever!
Please show me a poll showing that most of the country, or even most Tories, believe that people shouldn't be free to travel abroad.
Better enforcement of security is a good idea, and the intelligence services are good at what they do. That's not what you're talking about though.
There is a difference in travelling to Spain and Florida on holiday and travelling to Somalia to be radicalised.
The latter must be banned
You're also banning aid workers delivering the UK's aid programme, people travelling home for funerals of close family members etc. And most "Jihadis" are radicalised online in the comfort of their own home. It would just be a dumb thing to do. By all means treat travel to countries like that as a red flag for security services monitoring of course - but I'm sure they're doing that anyway.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now
The Tory party and its core vote is changing. You haven’t got it yet.
@HYUFD offered to pay for me to join Labour last night so maybe others could qualify for his free offer
He seems oblivious to the fact the Tories have changed and there are new blue collar Tories up and down the country. Someone made the comment the new Tories are white van man from Stoke. It’s not far off. They have far different priorities. IHT is never going to affect them. How Boris keeps his new coalition together who knows.
White Van Man in the RedWall is as anti jihadi as anyone and hardline on law and order.
Property owners and their heirs in the South are also still Tory.
The Tories need both for a majority and as the latest polls show that coalition is still together with the Tories still ahead
I doubt you have any idea what blue collar, working class, Tories in places like Durham actually want or expect from a govt.
Nor quite clearly do you.
They voted Tory as they are pro Brexit, wanted tighter immigration and border controls and they also tend to want a hardline on crime and those who may commit terrorist acts
I said want, present tense. What they want know. They got what they wanted then, but I am talking present tense not past tense. Priorities change.
I also have a far better idea than you living and working in such a place. The sort of place Tories used to hold with a thinly veiled contempt. These are the new Tories and their priorities are not the preservation of wealth when they don’t have any to preserve.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
Crap.
The vast majority of Tories agree with me, as does much of the country hence we have a Conservative government with an overall majority still leading in the polls.
If you throw your toys out the pram and shout 'racist' at merely discussing better enforcement of security to tackle jihadi extremism all to the good, it will keep you and your fellow left liberals further away from power than ever!
Please show me a poll showing that most of the country, or even most Tories, believe that people shouldn't be free to travel abroad.
Better enforcement of security is a good idea, and the intelligence services are good at what they do. That's not what you're talking about though.
There is a difference in travelling to Spain and Florida on holiday and travelling to Somalia to be radicalised.
The latter must be banned
Who is "travelling to Somalia to be radicalised" that isn't already radicalised?
And how do you know someone is travelling to Somalia to be radicalised? Should travelling to Somalia to visit family, or for tourism, or other reasons be banned?
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
Crap.
The vast majority of Tories agree with me, as does much of the country hence we have a Conservative government with an overall majority still leading in the polls.
If you throw your toys out the pram and shout 'racist' at merely discussing better enforcement of security to tackle jihadi extremism all to the good, it will keep you and your fellow left liberals further away from power than ever!
Please show me a poll showing that most of the country, or even most Tories, believe that people shouldn't be free to travel abroad.
Better enforcement of security is a good idea, and the intelligence services are good at what they do. That's not what you're talking about though.
There is a difference in travelling to Spain and Florida on holiday and travelling to Somalia to be radicalised.
The latter must be banned
You're also banning aid workers delivering the UK's aid programme, people travelling home for funerals of close family members etc. And most "Jihadis" are radicalised online in the comfort of their own home. It would just be a dumb thing to do. By all means treat travel to countries like that as a red flag for security services monitoring of course - but I'm sure they're doing that anyway.
Something that showed up during covid was how little we know about where people travel once they have left the UK. We rely on honest self reporting to know that.
So HYUFDs "ban" would be trivial to get round by flying to France or Spain on "holiday" and then onto whatever destination they like afterwards. The UK would end up knowing less about where they actually went than we do now.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
Crap.
The vast majority of Tories agree with me, as does much of the country hence we have a Conservative government with an overall majority still leading in the polls.
If you throw your toys out the pram and shout 'racist' at merely discussing better enforcement of security to tackle jihadi extremism all to the good, it will keep you and your fellow left liberals further away from power than ever!
Please show me a poll showing that most of the country, or even most Tories, believe that people shouldn't be free to travel abroad.
Better enforcement of security is a good idea, and the intelligence services are good at what they do. That's not what you're talking about though.
There is a difference in travelling to Spain and Florida on holiday and travelling to Somalia to be radicalised.
The latter must be banned
You're also banning aid workers delivering the UK's aid programme, people travelling home for funerals of close family members etc. And most "Jihadis" are radicalised online in the comfort of their own home. It would just be a dumb thing to do. By all means treat travel to countries like that as a red flag for security services monitoring of course - but I'm sure they're doing that anyway.
Something that showed up during covid was how little we know about where people travel once they have left the UK. We rely on honest self reporting to know that.
So HYUFDs "ban" would be trivial to get round by flying to France or Spain on "holiday" and then onto whatever destination they like afterwards. The UK would end up knowing less about where they actually went than we do now.
Indeed you'd be harming the intelligence service's ability to gather intelligence. The last thing they want I'm sure which is why they're not the ones proposing anything so stupid.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
How should we stop British citizens coming in?
All British citizens travelling to and from Somalia should be fully screened before and after travel as to their reasons for doing so and monitored when there by the security services ideally. If they are there to become a jihadi they should be refused entry back into the UK or be charged and put in jail
Would it be that easy?
What's your reason for travelling to Somalia? To become a jihadi. Sorry, you can't go.
Several years ago at the height of ISIS I recall Police/Border Force officers asking everyone boarding an Emirates flight to Dubai the purpose of their trip.
It’s amazing how much info the security services have access to.
About 10 years ago I was living in Switzerland and went to St Petersburg for a long weekend via London.
On the way back whilst at the gate waiting for my flight back to Geneva from London my partner and I were approached by a guy in a suit who knew exactly who we were asked us to step away into a quiet area and asked us about our trip to St Petersburg, what we did and how it was and if we had any trouble with the authorities.
The fact that it wasn’t even as we got off the flight from St P but we were approached in person on our seats at the gate in transit was very interesting. Didn’t even ask us if we were Mr X and Ms Y but addressed us by name straight away.
I've been to Russia a few times and never had this sort of special treatment. Did make the mistake of flying into the US on a one-way ticket though. Never again!
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
How should we stop British citizens coming in?
Are they pure-bred Anglo-Saxons? No? There's your answer - they could all be jihadis...
Going a bit too fast there, Mr Rochdale. I think people like young HY would be happy enough with that - except that half the Conservative Cabinet would not pass muster.
And if you tweak the definition a bit to include/except loyalty to the Conservative Party, then you have another problem, in that young HY has defined most of our Conservative PB posters as not real Conservatives at all.
The thing most likely to end SNP hegemony in Scotland imo is a Sindy Referendum. If it's won, there'll probably be a realignment of politics since with independence achieved people in larger numbers will start to vote their broader political view rather than just on this issue. And if it's lost, the drive for independence will lose salience and priority. The SNP could fight against this, keep "banging on" about independence, put yet another vote on it front and centre in their platform, but this would probably shed votes and end their dominance. Or alternatively, if it is another "No", they could go with the grain, de-prioritize independence, talk less about it, drop the commitment to hold another vote in the near future, and if they do this they will still likely shed votes (just maybe different ones) and see an end to their dominance.
So, that's my advice to Boris Johnson. Want to cut the SNP down to size? Hold that Sindy vote.
Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.
Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.
Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.
But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount
Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid
I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above
Where's the money coming from Big_G?
Exactly
And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands
At least on the 27th we may have some idea
Easy - from future generations
I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high
If not maybe you could expand your view
The only options are borrow more or create a wealth tax - IHT won’t generate much
As a matter of interest how do you see a wealth tax working
My suggestion: 1% pa on all individual assets over £1m. Legal obligation to self-declare and complete an annual return.
So, assets of £1m = £0 Wealth Tax (WT) pa Assets of £1.5m = £5k WT pac(£500k over threshold x 1%) Assets of £2m = £10k WT pa (£1m over threshold x 1%) Assets of £10m = £90k WT pa Assets of £101m = £1m WT pa etc.
Seems fair enough
I would probably go for 0.5%, but agree with the principle.
Will kill off farming. All the land will have to be sold to housing developers.
Sorry Tim, I appreciate you are a long way away but this comment is dumb on several levels:
First, pulling 1% per annum out of large estates will never bankrupt those who own them.
Secondly, do you realise how tight the planning rules are in the UK, how difficult it is to convert farmland to housing?
Wealth is not liquidity. You don't have to go with the stereotype of a little old widow living on the state pension in a mansion to see that lots of high net asset people would struggle to produce 1pc cash every year. That's why racing on death when everything gets liquidated anyway is so handy. You would have to have a roll over till death option for the asset rich, cash poor, so why not go to enhanced death duties anyway?
I agree completely not least because that describes me (not a a widow living on just a state pension in a mansion).
I am retired. I have no income other than my state pension, but I have assets that I live off of. Some cash for the next few years, DC pension that I am not taking yet, shares that I can sell but would only fund me for a few years and 2 houses (home and holiday) that I will sell when I need the money. Most of the value it tied up in the house I live in so I could only afford the tax if I sold my home.
I am not poor, but I could not pay 1% of my asset value in tax, but happy to owe the tax and pay when I can.
Also how would the tax be applied re the following 3 scenarios: DB pension value, DC pension value, savings for retirement?
If DB pensions are excluded how is that fair on the majority of people whose retirement assets are not these and had no opportunity to get a DB pension. If not how does someone on a DB pension get the funds to pay the tax?
If you have over £1m in assets as suggested in the proposal above, you could very easily get a loan against the property to cover 1% asset tax.
Personally I would set a wealth tax to start at £10m as many people will think similarly to yourself, and also see £1m as attainable even if they are far from it currently.
Yes you could, but not straight forward if you don't have an income (see below). It also doesn't cover the DB pension issue. Why should they be exempt and how do they pay if they aren't?
Re your proposal I agree.
Re the getting a loan I have a fun story and actually many would consider it revenge by the system on me for my exploiting it for the last few decades. I have used 0% credit cards and 0% balance transfer cards with 0% fees to play the system to get free money effectively which I then invest. The more you do the better the credit it also seems, so you can do more. As soon as the time period is up I pay them off or if a free transfer to another card is available I do that. Not a lot of use now interest rates are low, but was very profitable in the old days. It is surprising what credit you can get and how much you can build up on them.
Now I have no income to talk of and the selection criteria is almost entirely income based I am snookered. The conversation normally goes along the line of 'you have no income to pay your credit card', 'but I have plenty of money to do so', 'sorry sir we can't take that into account when issuing a card. How are you going to pay it', ' As I said I have cash.', 'Sorry sir that doesn't count', 'If I buy an annuity with it you will give me the card then', 'yes sir', 'How is that any different? You do know that lots of people have drawdown pensions now and so don't take a regular income', '!'.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
How should we stop British citizens coming in?
Are they pure-bred Anglo-Saxons? No? There's your answer - they could all be jihadis...
Going a bit too fast there, Mr Rochdale. I think people like young HY would be happy enough with that - except that half the Conservative Cabinet would not pass muster.
And if you tweak the definition a bit to include/except loyalty to the Conservative Party, then you have another problem, in that young HY has defined most of our Conservative PB posters as not real Conservatives at all.
Under HYUFD's purity tests the Foreign Secretary is a liberal and not a true Conservative either.
So, when the First Minister, in the same week that the memory of William was being mourned by so many, reacted with such disproportionate fury when the highest court in the land, the Supreme Court, ruled that the Scottish Parliament had breached its legal powers by attempting to incorporate into Scots law the statutes within the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, by saying that this left her unable to fully protect children’s rights, would it not have been wiser to have reflected on how Scottish children are currently left unprotected by the powers she already has?
The fact is, the Scottish Government knew it was attempting to legislate in breach of the Scotland Act; knew it, but did it anyway. And it is difficult to see how this was anything other than a cynical exercise in creating a grievance for advancing both an argument about the Tories being anti-children, and the case for more powers. And for independence.
The attitude of the Scottish government on this was just weird. They could introduce all the provisions that are included in the Convention of the Child that relate to the welfare of children into domestic law without difficulty. They still can and presumably will. What was illegal was bringing in a Convention that imposed additional obligations on the UK government who had not agreed to them being imposed.
It is a mystery to me how the Lord Advocate ever managed to sign off on this nonsense. He had an obligation to certify that the bill was within the competence of the Scottish Parliament and did so. The arguments that it was were frankly embarrassing and dismissed by the Supreme Court without difficulty applying very clear precedents. One can only hope that the current Lord Advocate will take her statutory duties a bit more seriously. I think that she will.
The thing most likely to end SNP hegemony in Scotland imo is a Sindy Referendum. If it's won, there'll probably be a realignment of politics since with independence achieved people in larger numbers will start to vote their broader political view rather than just on this issue. And if it's lost, the drive for independence will lose salience and priority. The SNP could fight against this, keep "banging on" about independence, put yet another vote on it front and centre in their platform, but this would probably shed votes and end their dominance. Or alternatively, if it is another "No", they could go with the grain, de-prioritize independence, talk less about it, drop the commitment to hold another vote in the near future, and if they do this they will still likely shed votes (just maybe different ones) and see an end to their dominance.
So, that's my advice to Boris Johnson. Want to cut the SNP down to size? Hold that Sindy vote.
Why would he want to do that when he can keep the threat of a PM Stamer as puppet of the SNP in a hung parliament to keep English Tories voting Tory?
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
Crap.
The vast majority of Tories agree with me, as does much of the country hence we have a Conservative government with an overall majority still leading in the polls.
If you throw your toys out the pram and shout 'racist' at merely discussing better enforcement of security to tackle jihadi extremism all to the good, it will keep you and your fellow left liberals further away from power than ever!
Please show me a poll showing that most of the country, or even most Tories, believe that people shouldn't be free to travel abroad.
Better enforcement of security is a good idea, and the intelligence services are good at what they do. That's not what you're talking about though.
There is a difference in travelling to Spain and Florida on holiday and travelling to Somalia to be radicalised.
The latter must be banned
You're also banning aid workers delivering the UK's aid programme, people travelling home for funerals of close family members etc. And most "Jihadis" are radicalised online in the comfort of their own home. It would just be a dumb thing to do. By all means treat travel to countries like that as a red flag for security services monitoring of course - but I'm sure they're doing that anyway.
Nope.
If you are a genuine aid worker you can prove it with papers and authorisation from the aid agency concerned. If you are travelling for a funeral you can prove it with confirmation from family and the religious minister concerned.
If you had bothered to read my posts which you clearly can't I made clear this must go alongside enforcing the ban on jihadi websites online
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
The significance of him being a constituent of Starmers is that he shouldn't have been at Amess's constituency surgery. It is normal for such requests to be redirected to the appropriate MP. Admittedly this can be a problem when your own MP is a waste of space, but the first step in security should be that surgery's are by appointment only.
This can help with security. It is normal for appointments in my line to be labelled "not to be seen alone" or "not for female staff" because of past inappropriate behaviour, for example.
Indeed, and I know security has been beefed up. My sis-in-law used to work for a Labour MP when they were in government and they would just book a venue and keep an eye out for the people who shouldn't be allowed in.
Point is that MPs and their staff do not know every person in their constituency. We can't make such things completely secure without utterly changing what they are.
It wouldn't be unreasonable to check names against the electoral register and against the Prevent list of referrals. This would not mean refusing to see but could mean seeing in a safer situation.
Sadly I think we will have to. The problem is that MPs also go to public places where they are not able to have this protection. Jo Cox was murdered in the street. As was David Amess.
David Amess was murdered in a Church serving his constituents who loved him
Should the fact he was killed in a church make it worse? I think so, but maybe that is an old fashioned view
For me no, because its not possible to get any worse.
Whether he was killed in a Church, or in his own office, or on the street, or in a supermarket, or in a restaurant or anywhere else . . . the fact he was killed is as bad as it gets.
Its why I think all murder (not manslaughter) should get whole life tariffs automatically. It doesn't get worse than murder for me. Its like asking what's the number higher than infinity?
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
Crap.
The vast majority of Tories agree with me, as does much of the country hence we have a Conservative government with an overall majority still leading in the polls.
If you throw your toys out the pram and shout 'racist' at merely discussing better enforcement of security to tackle jihadi extremism all to the good, it will keep you and your fellow left liberals further away from power than ever!
Please show me a poll showing that most of the country, or even most Tories, believe that people shouldn't be free to travel abroad.
Better enforcement of security is a good idea, and the intelligence services are good at what they do. That's not what you're talking about though.
There is a difference in travelling to Spain and Florida on holiday and travelling to Somalia to be radicalised.
The latter must be banned
You're also banning aid workers delivering the UK's aid programme, people travelling home for funerals of close family members etc. And most "Jihadis" are radicalised online in the comfort of their own home. It would just be a dumb thing to do. By all means treat travel to countries like that as a red flag for security services monitoring of course - but I'm sure they're doing that anyway.
Something that showed up during covid was how little we know about where people travel once they have left the UK. We rely on honest self reporting to know that.
So HYUFDs "ban" would be trivial to get round by flying to France or Spain on "holiday" and then onto whatever destination they like afterwards. The UK would end up knowing less about where they actually went than we do now.
Rubbish, if they try an fly via other nations then we should work with French and Spanish agencies too to ensure they also enforce mandatory checks on travel to Somalia etc from there. They equally wish to stop Jihadism so I am sure would oblige
The reason Labour have been smashed by the SNP is not that they have attacked them insufficiently. Anyone who has seen the invective spouted by SLab members and activists at the SNP would find that ridiculous.
The reason is much simpler. A very large percentage of former Labour voters were in favour of independence.
If your party is implacably opposed to a policy that a large amount of your voters are in favour of you have only two options.
1) bring your voters round to your point of view with well constructed arguments. 2) call them Nazi's and watch as they abandon you and vote for party that favours their position instead.
Labour went with option 2.
It's that simple.
It really isn't. If that were the case there would be an overwhelming majority in Scotland for independence instead of a minority. What we are now seeing, bizarrely, is situations where people vote for the SNP but don't seem to favour independence. They vote for the SNP because they are the centre left party, just as Labour used to be.
And whatever activists say about the SNP, it is not what Labour says to the voters. I live in Dundee West. Labour leaflets at the last election said vote Labour to stop the Tories. The SNP have a 10k+ majority in the seat, the Tories are nowhere and Labour did not lay a glove on the SNP. They were massacred again and not by the Tories. Its madness.
Do you think leaflets saying vote Labour to stop the SNP would make any difference? It would just confirm what is pretty much fact that they're guddling in the same pool of voters as SCons and SLDs.
I think that leaflets saying what a terrible mess the SNP have made of housing, the police, the health service, education and the economy just might make a difference and make centre left voters (I agree that they are fishing in the same pool) think about what centre left party they want to vote for. Dundee West was so solidly Labour that a brain dead bigot like Ernie Ross was able to hold it for years without a problem. And now they are nowhere.
The thing most likely to end SNP hegemony in Scotland imo is a Sindy Referendum. If it's won, there'll probably be a realignment of politics since with independence achieved people in larger numbers will start to vote their broader political view rather than just on this issue. And if it's lost, the drive for independence will lose salience and priority. The SNP could fight against this, keep "banging on" about independence, put yet another vote on it front and centre in their platform, but this would probably shed votes and end their dominance. Or alternatively, if it is another "No", they could go with the grain, de-prioritize independence, talk less about it, drop the commitment to hold another vote in the near future, and if they do this they will still likely shed votes (just maybe different ones) and see an end to their dominance.
So, that's my advice to Boris Johnson. Want to cut the SNP down to size? Hold that Sindy vote.
Boris isn’t that smart. I think you are quite right and there is a mandate for it following the recent elections in Scotland. I suspect the SNP would crap themselves, to coin a phrase, if he agreed.
Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.
Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.
Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.
But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount
Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid
I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above
Where's the money coming from Big_G?
Exactly
And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands
At least on the 27th we may have some idea
Easy - from future generations
I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high
If not maybe you could expand your view
The only options are borrow more or create a wealth tax - IHT won’t generate much
As a matter of interest how do you see a wealth tax working
My suggestion: 1% pa on all individual assets over £1m. Legal obligation to self-declare and complete an annual return.
So, assets of £1m = £0 Wealth Tax (WT) pa Assets of £1.5m = £5k WT pac(£500k over threshold x 1%) Assets of £2m = £10k WT pa (£1m over threshold x 1%) Assets of £10m = £90k WT pa Assets of £101m = £1m WT pa etc.
Seems fair enough
I would probably go for 0.5%, but agree with the principle.
Will kill off farming. All the land will have to be sold to housing developers.
Sorry Tim, I appreciate you are a long way away but this comment is dumb on several levels:
First, pulling 1% per annum out of large estates will never bankrupt those who own them.
Secondly, do you realise how tight the planning rules are in the UK, how difficult it is to convert farmland to housing?
Wealth is not liquidity. You don't have to go with the stereotype of a little old widow living on the state pension in a mansion to see that lots of high net asset people would struggle to produce 1pc cash every year. That's why racing on death when everything gets liquidated anyway is so handy. You would have to have a roll over till death option for the asset rich, cash poor, so why not go to enhanced death duties anyway?
I agree completely not least because that describes me (not a a widow living on just a state pension in a mansion).
I am retired. I have no income other than my state pension, but I have assets that I live off of. Some cash for the next few years, DC pension that I am not taking yet, shares that I can sell but would only fund me for a few years and 2 houses (home and holiday) that I will sell when I need the money. Most of the value it tied up in the house I live in so I could only afford the tax if I sold my home.
I am not poor, but I could not pay 1% of my asset value in tax, but happy to owe the tax and pay when I can.
Also how would the tax be applied re the following 3 scenarios: DB pension value, DC pension value, savings for retirement?
If DB pensions are excluded how is that fair on the majority of people whose retirement assets are not these and had no opportunity to get a DB pension. If not how does someone on a DB pension get the funds to pay the tax?
If you have over £1m in assets as suggested in the proposal above, you could very easily get a loan against the property to cover 1% asset tax.
Personally I would set a wealth tax to start at £10m as many people will think similarly to yourself, and also see £1m as attainable even if they are far from it currently.
Yes you could, but not straight forward if you don't have an income (see below). It also doesn't cover the DB pension issue. Why should they be exempt and how do they pay if they aren't?
Re your proposal I agree.
Re the getting a loan I have a fun story and actually many would consider it revenge by the system on me for my exploiting it for the last few decades. I have used 0% credit cards and 0% balance transfer cards with 0% fees to play the system to get free money effectively which I then invest. The more you do the better the credit it also seems, so you can do more. As soon as the time period is up I pay them off or if a free transfer to another card is available I do that. Not a lot of use now interest rates are low, but was very profitable in the old days. It is surprising what credit you can get and how much you can build up on them.
Now I have no income to talk of and the selection criteria is almost entirely income based I am snookered. The conversation normally goes along the line of 'you have no income to pay your credit card', 'but I have plenty of money to do so', 'sorry sir we can't take that into account when issuing a card. How are you going to pay it', ' As I said I have cash.', 'Sorry sir that doesn't count', 'If I buy an annuity with it you will give me the card then', 'yes sir'. 'How is that any different? You do know that lots of people have drawdown pensions now and so don't take a regular income', '!'.
Equity release is very straightforward for the vast majority of people with over £1m of property assets and no income. That is different to getting an unsecured loan or credit card which of course may be harder.
On defined benefit pensions I see no reason they should be exempt. Take the most extreme example of someone with a £1m db pension and no other assets.
They would receive £30-40k income and have to pay £10k additional tax, which is perfectly do-able, if harsh for a very unlikely edge case. As and when their pension value, which depreciates each year as they get older, drops below £1m they stop paying.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now
The Tory party and its core vote is changing. You haven’t got it yet.
@HYUFD offered to pay for me to join Labour last night so maybe others could qualify for his free offer
He seems oblivious to the fact the Tories have changed and there are new blue collar Tories up and down the country. Someone made the comment the new Tories are white van man from Stoke. It’s not far off. They have far different priorities. IHT is never going to affect them. How Boris keeps his new coalition together who knows.
White Van Man in the RedWall is as anti jihadi as anyone and hardline on law and order.
Property owners and their heirs in the South are also still Tory.
The Tories need both for a majority and as the latest polls show that coalition is still together with the Tories still ahead
I doubt you have any idea what blue collar, working class, Tories in places like Durham actually want or expect from a govt.
Nor quite clearly do you.
They voted Tory as they are pro Brexit, wanted tighter immigration and border controls and they also tend to want a hardline on crime and those who may commit terrorist acts
I said want, present tense. What they want know. They got what they wanted then, but I am talking present tense not past tense. Priorities change.
I also have a far better idea than you living and working in such a place. The sort of place Tories used to hold with a thinly veiled contempt. These are the new Tories and their priorities are not the preservation of wealth when they don’t have any to preserve.
Most of them are homeowners however, which is also why they voted Tory and they want to pass that onto their children.
In any case there will be no Tory majority on the RedWall alone, if southern Tories go ReformUK or LD or stay home on polling day the Tories would lose their majority even if every 2019 RedWall Tory still voted Tory
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
Crap.
The vast majority of Tories agree with me, as does much of the country hence we have a Conservative government with an overall majority still leading in the polls.
If you throw your toys out the pram and shout 'racist' at merely discussing better enforcement of security to tackle jihadi extremism all to the good, it will keep you and your fellow left liberals further away from power than ever!
Please show me a poll showing that most of the country, or even most Tories, believe that people shouldn't be free to travel abroad.
Better enforcement of security is a good idea, and the intelligence services are good at what they do. That's not what you're talking about though.
There is a difference in travelling to Spain and Florida on holiday and travelling to Somalia to be radicalised.
The latter must be banned
You're also banning aid workers delivering the UK's aid programme, people travelling home for funerals of close family members etc. And most "Jihadis" are radicalised online in the comfort of their own home. It would just be a dumb thing to do. By all means treat travel to countries like that as a red flag for security services monitoring of course - but I'm sure they're doing that anyway.
Something that showed up during covid was how little we know about where people travel once they have left the UK. We rely on honest self reporting to know that.
So HYUFDs "ban" would be trivial to get round by flying to France or Spain on "holiday" and then onto whatever destination they like afterwards. The UK would end up knowing less about where they actually went than we do now.
The real problem is that the intelligence services and all the other agencies involved in the Prevent programmes simply do not have the resources they need to monitor effectively, let alone deradicalise, all those they know about.
Unless @HYUFD's Tory government is willing to put their money where their mouth is then this is all talk and little will be achieved. Effective counter-terrorism and deradicalisation take time and resources.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
That’s a bit extreme, what about your intolerance of the likes of ‘Laura Pillock’ and the other oh so witty names and descriptions You applied to Corbynites and your invective against them and wanting them driven from the Party. I don’t think anyone would dream of drawing a similar parallel, rightly so.
I have already said "mea culpa". But I am questioning the intelligence of Pillock, Ding Dong Burgon et al. I am not questioning their patriotism, their right to their views or saying their are traitors to their country.
There is a clear and obvious difference between honest British satire and weaponising politicians.
It is not really satire and I am not saying you questioned their patriotism. But you have called for them to be driven out of the party, a part you are no longer a member of. Something you are criticising HYUFD for stating Big G should do.
There is a difference. I was calling for them to scab off when I was still a Labour member. They won, I lost - I quit. I am openly calling for them to found a new party or parties so that their views can be heard and people can vote for them - democracy.
HYUFD claims to be the only gay in the village and denounces anyone less extreme than him. I never ever made a similar claim in the Labour party. It was that people who had views which profoundly clash with the constitution of the party should quit, not saying "we don't want your votes" like he does.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
The significance of him being a constituent of Starmers is that he shouldn't have been at Amess's constituency surgery. It is normal for such requests to be redirected to the appropriate MP. Admittedly this can be a problem when your own MP is a waste of space, but the first step in security should be that surgery's are by appointment only.
This can help with security. It is normal for appointments in my line to be labelled "not to be seen alone" or "not for female staff" because of past inappropriate behaviour, for example.
Indeed, and I know security has been beefed up. My sis-in-law used to work for a Labour MP when they were in government and they would just book a venue and keep an eye out for the people who shouldn't be allowed in.
Point is that MPs and their staff do not know every person in their constituency. We can't make such things completely secure without utterly changing what they are.
It wouldn't be unreasonable to check names against the electoral register and against the Prevent list of referrals. This would not mean refusing to see but could mean seeing in a safer situation.
Sadly I think we will have to. The problem is that MPs also go to public places where they are not able to have this protection. Jo Cox was murdered in the street. As was David Amess.
David Amess was murdered in a Church serving his constituents who loved him
Should the fact he was killed in a church make it worse? I think so, but maybe that is an old fashioned view
For me no, because its not possible to get any worse.
Whether he was killed in a Church, or in his own office, or on the street, or in a supermarket, or in a restaurant or anywhere else . . . the fact he was killed is as bad as it gets.
Its why I think all murder (not manslaughter) should get whole life tariffs automatically. It doesn't get worse than murder for me. Its like asking what's the number higher than infinity?
I think there is a distinction between killing in cold blood and other murders. But, yes, life should mean life in cases like this one.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
Border controls on British citizens? 🤔
No.
If they are going to countries known to have a high level of jihadi extremists certainly.
You may take your usual ultra libertarian line, I am with the silent majority of Britons on this
Mate we are a country with a high level of jihadi extremists.
And will get more so by the day the more we allow young Britons to go to countries like Somalia to get radicalised
"allow"
So now you wish to forbid Britons from travelling abroad?
That's never been a British policy or something Britons support. I think the policy you're looking for is that of the Iron Curtain.
In general yes, however, if the security services have got reason to believe that young people are travelling to their "home" countries to get terrorist training we should prevent that in the same way we prevent families from taking 13-17 year old girls to Pakistan if forced marriage is suspected.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
Crap.
The vast majority of Tories agree with me, as does much of the country hence we have a Conservative government with an overall majority still leading in the polls.
If you throw your toys out the pram and shout 'racist' at merely discussing better enforcement of security to tackle jihadi extremism all to the good, it will keep you and your fellow left liberals further away from power than ever!
Please show me a poll showing that most of the country, or even most Tories, believe that people shouldn't be free to travel abroad.
Better enforcement of security is a good idea, and the intelligence services are good at what they do. That's not what you're talking about though.
There is a difference in travelling to Spain and Florida on holiday and travelling to Somalia to be radicalised.
The latter must be banned
You're also banning aid workers delivering the UK's aid programme, people travelling home for funerals of close family members etc. And most "Jihadis" are radicalised online in the comfort of their own home. It would just be a dumb thing to do. By all means treat travel to countries like that as a red flag for security services monitoring of course - but I'm sure they're doing that anyway.
Something that showed up during covid was how little we know about where people travel once they have left the UK. We rely on honest self reporting to know that.
So HYUFDs "ban" would be trivial to get round by flying to France or Spain on "holiday" and then onto whatever destination they like afterwards. The UK would end up knowing less about where they actually went than we do now.
Rubbish, if they try an fly via other nations then we should work with French and Spanish agencies too to ensure they also enforce mandatory checks on travel to Somalia etc from there. They equally wish to stop Jihadism so I am sure would oblige
You do realise France and Spain were just the two example countries used in your post as places we would still be allowed to travel and not the only places they could use to travel from? Getting them on board would not be sufficient, you would need the whole world on board with mandatory travel stamps (whether physical or electronic) when crossing borders, which is not going to happen in the next 25 years for many reasons.
Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.
Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.
Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.
But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount
Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid
I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above
Where's the money coming from Big_G?
Exactly
And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands
At least on the 27th we may have some idea
Easy - from future generations
I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high
If not maybe you could expand your view
The only options are borrow more or create a wealth tax - IHT won’t generate much
As a matter of interest how do you see a wealth tax working
My suggestion: 1% pa on all individual assets over £1m. Legal obligation to self-declare and complete an annual return.
So, assets of £1m = £0 Wealth Tax (WT) pa Assets of £1.5m = £5k WT pac(£500k over threshold x 1%) Assets of £2m = £10k WT pa (£1m over threshold x 1%) Assets of £10m = £90k WT pa Assets of £101m = £1m WT pa etc.
Seems fair enough
I would probably go for 0.5%, but agree with the principle.
Will kill off farming. All the land will have to be sold to housing developers.
Sorry Tim, I appreciate you are a long way away but this comment is dumb on several levels:
First, pulling 1% per annum out of large estates will never bankrupt those who own them.
Secondly, do you realise how tight the planning rules are in the UK, how difficult it is to convert farmland to housing?
Wealth is not liquidity. You don't have to go with the stereotype of a little old widow living on the state pension in a mansion to see that lots of high net asset people would struggle to produce 1pc cash every year. That's why racing on death when everything gets liquidated anyway is so handy. You would have to have a roll over till death option for the asset rich, cash poor, so why not go to enhanced death duties anyway?
I agree completely not least because that describes me (not a a widow living on just a state pension in a mansion).
I am retired. I have no income other than my state pension, but I have assets that I live off of. Some cash for the next few years, DC pension that I am not taking yet, shares that I can sell but would only fund me for a few years and 2 houses (home and holiday) that I will sell when I need the money. Most of the value it tied up in the house I live in so I could only afford the tax if I sold my home.
I am not poor, but I could not pay 1% of my asset value in tax, but happy to owe the tax and pay when I can.
Also how would the tax be applied re the following 3 scenarios: DB pension value, DC pension value, savings for retirement?
If DB pensions are excluded how is that fair on the majority of people whose retirement assets are not these and had no opportunity to get a DB pension. If not how does someone on a DB pension get the funds to pay the tax?
If you have over £1m in assets as suggested in the proposal above, you could very easily get a loan against the property to cover 1% asset tax.
Personally I would set a wealth tax to start at £10m as many people will think similarly to yourself, and also see £1m as attainable even if they are far from it currently.
Yes you could, but not straight forward if you don't have an income (see below). It also doesn't cover the DB pension issue. Why should they be exempt and how do they pay if they aren't?
Re your proposal I agree.
Re the getting a loan I have a fun story and actually many would consider it revenge by the system on me for my exploiting it for the last few decades. I have used 0% credit cards and 0% balance transfer cards with 0% fees to play the system to get free money effectively which I then invest. The more you do the better the credit it also seems, so you can do more. As soon as the time period is up I pay them off or if a free transfer to another card is available I do that. Not a lot of use now interest rates are low, but was very profitable in the old days. It is surprising what credit you can get and how much you can build up on them.
Now I have no income to talk of and the selection criteria is almost entirely income based I am snookered. The conversation normally goes along the line of 'you have no income to pay your credit card', 'but I have plenty of money to do so', 'sorry sir we can't take that into account when issuing a card. How are you going to pay it', ' As I said I have cash.', 'Sorry sir that doesn't count', 'If I buy an annuity with it you will give me the card then', 'yes sir'. 'How is that any different? You do know that lots of people have drawdown pensions now and so don't take a regular income', '!'.
Equity release is very straightforward for the vast majority of people with over £1m of property assets and no income. That is different to getting an unsecured loan or credit card which of course may be harder.
On defined benefit pensions I see no reason they should be exempt. Take the most extreme example of someone with a £1m db pension and no other assets.
They would receive £30-40k income and have to pay £10k additional tax, which is perfectly do-able, if harsh for a very unlikely edge case. As and when their pension value, which depreciates each year as they get older, drops below £1m they stop paying.
It's a mistake to set the threshold or rate too high.
For a general wealth tax imo the best model is Switzerland, which tends to start at about 0 reportable net assets or a little more, at a rate of 0.1-0.2%, then built to perhaps 0.5% at 1-2 million of assets.
I can see that eg foreign owned property needs a higher rate, perhaps 1%, to make sure it is used effectively.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
Crap.
The vast majority of Tories agree with me, as does much of the country hence we have a Conservative government with an overall majority still leading in the polls.
If you throw your toys out the pram and shout 'racist' at merely discussing better enforcement of security to tackle jihadi extremism all to the good, it will keep you and your fellow left liberals further away from power than ever!
Please show me a poll showing that most of the country, or even most Tories, believe that people shouldn't be free to travel abroad.
Better enforcement of security is a good idea, and the intelligence services are good at what they do. That's not what you're talking about though.
There is a difference in travelling to Spain and Florida on holiday and travelling to Somalia to be radicalised.
The latter must be banned
You're also banning aid workers delivering the UK's aid programme, people travelling home for funerals of close family members etc. And most "Jihadis" are radicalised online in the comfort of their own home. It would just be a dumb thing to do. By all means treat travel to countries like that as a red flag for security services monitoring of course - but I'm sure they're doing that anyway.
Something that showed up during covid was how little we know about where people travel once they have left the UK. We rely on honest self reporting to know that.
So HYUFDs "ban" would be trivial to get round by flying to France or Spain on "holiday" and then onto whatever destination they like afterwards. The UK would end up knowing less about where they actually went than we do now.
The real problem is that the intelligence services and all the other agencies involved in the Prevent programmes simply do not have the resources they need to monitor effectively, let alone deradicalise, all those they know about.
Unless @HYUFD's Tory government is willing to put their money where their mouth is then this is all talk and little will be achieved. Effective counter-terrorism and deradicalisation take time and resources.
Whisper it quietly: there isn’t much evidence that deradicalisation works.
From what I can tell, the best solution to angry young men/women is to tie them down with a job, a mortgage, a relationship and young children and they tend to move on and cease to be a threat.
Doesn’t always work, but better than what the bullshit deradicalisation industry can achieve.
The thing most likely to end SNP hegemony in Scotland imo is a Sindy Referendum. If it's won, there'll probably be a realignment of politics since with independence achieved people in larger numbers will start to vote their broader political view rather than just on this issue. And if it's lost, the drive for independence will lose salience and priority. The SNP could fight against this, keep "banging on" about independence, put yet another vote on it front and centre in their platform, but this would probably shed votes and end their dominance. Or alternatively, if it is another "No", they could go with the grain, de-prioritize independence, talk less about it, drop the commitment to hold another vote in the near future, and if they do this they will still likely shed votes (just maybe different ones) and see an end to their dominance.
So, that's my advice to Boris Johnson. Want to cut the SNP down to size? Hold that Sindy vote.
That was the conclusion I came to some time ago. Its a risk but the alternatives may be worse.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
How should we stop British citizens coming in?
All British citizens travelling to and from Somalia should be fully screened before and after travel as to their reasons for doing so and monitored when there by the security services ideally. If they are there to become a jihadi they should be refused entry back into the UK or be charged and put in jail
Would it be that easy?
What's your reason for travelling to Somalia? To become a jihadi. Sorry, you can't go.
Several years ago at the height of ISIS I recall Police/Border Force officers asking everyone boarding an Emirates flight to Dubai the purpose of their trip.
It’s amazing how much info the security services have access to.
About 10 years ago I was living in Switzerland and went to St Petersburg for a long weekend via London.
On the way back whilst at the gate waiting for my flight back to Geneva from London my partner and I were approached by a guy in a suit who knew exactly who we were asked us to step away into a quiet area and asked us about our trip to St Petersburg, what we did and how it was and if we had any trouble with the authorities.
The fact that it wasn’t even as we got off the flight from St P but we were approached in person on our seats at the gate in transit was very interesting. Didn’t even ask us if we were Mr X and Ms Y but addressed us by name straight away.
I've been to Russia a few times and never had this sort of special treatment. Did make the mistake of flying into the US on a one-way ticket though. Never again!
Ha! I’ve travelled all over the Middle East, and to a few ex-Soviet countries. Only problem I’ve ever had at a border was in the USA. Damn nearly missed my connection in JFK.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now
The Tory party and its core vote is changing. You haven’t got it yet.
@HYUFD offered to pay for me to join Labour last night so maybe others could qualify for his free offer
He seems oblivious to the fact the Tories have changed and there are new blue collar Tories up and down the country. Someone made the comment the new Tories are white van man from Stoke. It’s not far off. They have far different priorities. IHT is never going to affect them. How Boris keeps his new coalition together who knows.
White Van Man in the RedWall is as anti jihadi as anyone and hardline on law and order.
Property owners and their heirs in the South are also still Tory.
The Tories need both for a majority and as the latest polls show that coalition is still together with the Tories still ahead
I doubt you have any idea what blue collar, working class, Tories in places like Durham actually want or expect from a govt.
Nor quite clearly do you.
They voted Tory as they are pro Brexit, wanted tighter immigration and border controls and they also tend to want a hardline on crime and those who may commit terrorist acts
I said want, present tense. What they want know. They got what they wanted then, but I am talking present tense not past tense. Priorities change.
I also have a far better idea than you living and working in such a place. The sort of place Tories used to hold with a thinly veiled contempt. These are the new Tories and their priorities are not the preservation of wealth when they don’t have any to preserve.
Most of them are homeowners however, which is also why they voted Tory and they want to pass that onto their children.
In any case there will be no Tory majority on the RedWall alone, if southern Tories go ReformUK or LD or stay home on polling day the Tories would lose their majority even if every 2019 RedWall Tory still voted Tory
In the East Midlands, Yorkshire and the NE they seem to be doing their best to drive them away at present.
"There's no money for HS2 NE." "Why not?" "We spent it on inflating the housing market, and building tunnels to protect the Nimbys of the Home Counties from HS2".
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
Crap.
The vast majority of Tories agree with me, as does much of the country hence we have a Conservative government with an overall majority still leading in the polls.
If you throw your toys out the pram and shout 'racist' at merely discussing better enforcement of security to tackle jihadi extremism all to the good, it will keep you and your fellow left liberals further away from power than ever!
Please show me a poll showing that most of the country, or even most Tories, believe that people shouldn't be free to travel abroad.
Better enforcement of security is a good idea, and the intelligence services are good at what they do. That's not what you're talking about though.
There is a difference in travelling to Spain and Florida on holiday and travelling to Somalia to be radicalised.
The latter must be banned
You're also banning aid workers delivering the UK's aid programme, people travelling home for funerals of close family members etc. And most "Jihadis" are radicalised online in the comfort of their own home. It would just be a dumb thing to do. By all means treat travel to countries like that as a red flag for security services monitoring of course - but I'm sure they're doing that anyway.
Something that showed up during covid was how little we know about where people travel once they have left the UK. We rely on honest self reporting to know that.
So HYUFDs "ban" would be trivial to get round by flying to France or Spain on "holiday" and then onto whatever destination they like afterwards. The UK would end up knowing less about where they actually went than we do now.
The real problem is that the intelligence services and all the other agencies involved in the Prevent programmes simply do not have the resources they need to monitor effectively, let alone deradicalise, all those they know about.
Unless @HYUFD's Tory government is willing to put their money where their mouth is then this is all talk and little will be achieved. Effective counter-terrorism and deradicalisation take time and resources.
Whisper it quietly: there isn’t much evidence that deradicalisation works.
From what I can tell, the best solution to angry young men/women is to tie them down with a job, a mortgage, a relationship and young children and they tend to move on and cease to be a threat.
Doesn’t always work, but better than what the bullshit deradicalisation industry can achieve.
Prevention is better than a cure - but we didn't want to listen to anyone who said we should prevent mass immigration, so we are where we are
Back in 2016, there were Border Force at the gate in Dubai, checking everyone getting on a BA flight to London. 20 questions about purpose of visit, where we were staying, people we would be meeting. Fast but comprehensive, I got the feeling they were looking for someone specific (who wasn’t me, thankfully!)
Some years ago I spent 4 months in Egypt on a total immersion course in Classical Arabic. Learning Arabic must be the number one reasons jihadis give for trips abroad because I was detained and questioned at Heathrow for 10 hours. That experience on return to the UK was more likely to radicalise somebody than anything I experienced in al-Qahirah.
As might be expected I refused to cooperate and would not answer any questions.
How do you reckon you'd be now with an experience like that?
Reason I ask is that when I was early 20s and interrailing I had a similar. A "robust" interrogation at the French/Belgian border and a strip search for something they just knew I had but which I didn't have. Harsh words and sour breath in my face, possessions cut apart with a razor, gloved hand up my rectum. The works.
It didn't faze me that much at the time but if something like this were to happen to me now I'd be spooked and shaking like a leaf. My tolerance for physical and mental discomfort has really declined over the years.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
Crap.
The vast majority of Tories agree with me, as does much of the country hence we have a Conservative government with an overall majority still leading in the polls.
If you throw your toys out the pram and shout 'racist' at merely discussing better enforcement of security to tackle jihadi extremism all to the good, it will keep you and your fellow left liberals further away from power than ever!
Please show me a poll showing that most of the country, or even most Tories, believe that people shouldn't be free to travel abroad.
Better enforcement of security is a good idea, and the intelligence services are good at what they do. That's not what you're talking about though.
There is a difference in travelling to Spain and Florida on holiday and travelling to Somalia to be radicalised.
The latter must be banned
You're also banning aid workers delivering the UK's aid programme, people travelling home for funerals of close family members etc. And most "Jihadis" are radicalised online in the comfort of their own home. It would just be a dumb thing to do. By all means treat travel to countries like that as a red flag for security services monitoring of course - but I'm sure they're doing that anyway.
Something that showed up during covid was how little we know about where people travel once they have left the UK. We rely on honest self reporting to know that.
So HYUFDs "ban" would be trivial to get round by flying to France or Spain on "holiday" and then onto whatever destination they like afterwards. The UK would end up knowing less about where they actually went than we do now.
Rubbish, if they try an fly via other nations then we should work with French and Spanish agencies too to ensure they also enforce mandatory checks on travel to Somalia etc from there. They equally wish to stop Jihadism so I am sure would oblige
Do you realise how ridiculous this is? An effective blanket ban on travelling for anyone who has links to countries that have terrorists without any due process.
Should TSE be banned from travelling to visit family in Pakistan? Or Spain because he can get to Pakistan from there?
The thing most likely to end SNP hegemony in Scotland imo is a Sindy Referendum. If it's won, there'll probably be a realignment of politics since with independence achieved people in larger numbers will start to vote their broader political view rather than just on this issue. And if it's lost, the drive for independence will lose salience and priority. The SNP could fight against this, keep "banging on" about independence, put yet another vote on it front and centre in their platform, but this would probably shed votes and end their dominance. Or alternatively, if it is another "No", they could go with the grain, de-prioritize independence, talk less about it, drop the commitment to hold another vote in the near future, and if they do this they will still likely shed votes (just maybe different ones) and see an end to their dominance.
So, that's my advice to Boris Johnson. Want to cut the SNP down to size? Hold that Sindy vote.
The last thing he wants to do is cut the SNP down to size. They are the biggest single obstacle to a Labour government. He is more than happy for them to retain their hegemony.
Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.
Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.
Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.
But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount
Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid
I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above
Where's the money coming from Big_G?
Exactly
And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands
At least on the 27th we may have some idea
Easy - from future generations
I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high
If not maybe you could expand your view
The only options are borrow more or create a wealth tax - IHT won’t generate much
As a matter of interest how do you see a wealth tax working
My suggestion: 1% pa on all individual assets over £1m. Legal obligation to self-declare and complete an annual return.
So, assets of £1m = £0 Wealth Tax (WT) pa Assets of £1.5m = £5k WT pac(£500k over threshold x 1%) Assets of £2m = £10k WT pa (£1m over threshold x 1%) Assets of £10m = £90k WT pa Assets of £101m = £1m WT pa etc.
Seems fair enough
I would probably go for 0.5%, but agree with the principle.
Will kill off farming. All the land will have to be sold to housing developers.
Sorry Tim, I appreciate you are a long way away but this comment is dumb on several levels:
First, pulling 1% per annum out of large estates will never bankrupt those who own them.
Secondly, do you realise how tight the planning rules are in the UK, how difficult it is to convert farmland to housing?
Wealth is not liquidity. You don't have to go with the stereotype of a little old widow living on the state pension in a mansion to see that lots of high net asset people would struggle to produce 1pc cash every year. That's why racing on death when everything gets liquidated anyway is so handy. You would have to have a roll over till death option for the asset rich, cash poor, so why not go to enhanced death duties anyway?
I agree completely not least because that describes me (not a a widow living on just a state pension in a mansion).
I am retired. I have no income other than my state pension, but I have assets that I live off of. Some cash for the next few years, DC pension that I am not taking yet, shares that I can sell but would only fund me for a few years and 2 houses (home and holiday) that I will sell when I need the money. Most of the value it tied up in the house I live in so I could only afford the tax if I sold my home.
I am not poor, but I could not pay 1% of my asset value in tax, but happy to owe the tax and pay when I can.
Also how would the tax be applied re the following 3 scenarios: DB pension value, DC pension value, savings for retirement?
If DB pensions are excluded how is that fair on the majority of people whose retirement assets are not these and had no opportunity to get a DB pension. If not how does someone on a DB pension get the funds to pay the tax?
If you have over £1m in assets as suggested in the proposal above, you could very easily get a loan against the property to cover 1% asset tax.
Personally I would set a wealth tax to start at £10m as many people will think similarly to yourself, and also see £1m as attainable even if they are far from it currently.
Yes you could, but not straight forward if you don't have an income (see below). It also doesn't cover the DB pension issue. Why should they be exempt and how do they pay if they aren't?
Re your proposal I agree.
Re the getting a loan I have a fun story and actually many would consider it revenge by the system on me for my exploiting it for the last few decades. I have used 0% credit cards and 0% balance transfer cards with 0% fees to play the system to get free money effectively which I then invest. The more you do the better the credit it also seems, so you can do more. As soon as the time period is up I pay them off or if a free transfer to another card is available I do that. Not a lot of use now interest rates are low, but was very profitable in the old days. It is surprising what credit you can get and how much you can build up on them.
Now I have no income to talk of and the selection criteria is almost entirely income based I am snookered. The conversation normally goes along the line of 'you have no income to pay your credit card', 'but I have plenty of money to do so', 'sorry sir we can't take that into account when issuing a card. How are you going to pay it', ' As I said I have cash.', 'Sorry sir that doesn't count', 'If I buy an annuity with it you will give me the card then', 'yes sir'. 'How is that any different? You do know that lots of people have drawdown pensions now and so don't take a regular income', '!'.
Equity release is very straightforward for the vast majority of people with over £1m of property assets and no income. That is different to getting an unsecured loan or credit card which of course may be harder.
On defined benefit pensions I see no reason they should be exempt. Take the most extreme example of someone with a £1m db pension and no other assets.
They would receive £30-40k income and have to pay £10k additional tax, which is perfectly do-able, if harsh for a very unlikely edge case. As and when their pension value, which depreciates each year as they get older, drops below £1m they stop paying.
It's a mistake to set the threshold or rate too high.
For a general wealth tax imo the best model is Switzerland, which tends to start at about 0 reportable net assets or a little more, at a rate of 0.1-0.2%, then built to perhaps 0.5% at 1-2 million of assets.
I can see that eg foreign owned property needs a higher rate, perhaps 1%, to make sure it is used effectively.
My argument for a wealth tax was 0.25% or so (council tax remains as is) with delayed payment allowed for those that were cash poor.
I wouldn't want to secure force a homeowner to borrow to pay the bill just allow it to build up as a first charge (with interest added) until the property was sold.
1% or higher for properties not owned by UK residents makes perfect sense though.
And the delayed payment scheme it's the sort of thing that could be easily securitised and sold by the Government to a pension fund.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community with their young people.
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
The significance of him being a constituent of Starmers is that he shouldn't have been at Amess's constituency surgery. It is normal for such requests to be redirected to the appropriate MP. Admittedly this can be a problem when your own MP is a waste of space, but the first step in security should be that surgery's are by appointment only.
This can help with security. It is normal for appointments in my line to be labelled "not to be seen alone" or "not for female staff" because of past inappropriate behaviour, for example.
Indeed, and I know security has been beefed up. My sis-in-law used to work for a Labour MP when they were in government and they would just book a venue and keep an eye out for the people who shouldn't be allowed in.
Point is that MPs and their staff do not know every person in their constituency. We can't make such things completely secure without utterly changing what they are.
It wouldn't be unreasonable to check names against the electoral register and against the Prevent list of referrals. This would not mean refusing to see but could mean seeing in a safer situation.
Sadly I think we will have to. The problem is that MPs also go to public places where they are not able to have this protection. Jo Cox was murdered in the street. As was David Amess.
David Amess was murdered in a Church serving his constituents who loved him
Should the fact he was killed in a church make it worse? I think so, but maybe that is an old fashioned view
For me no, because its not possible to get any worse.
Whether he was killed in a Church, or in his own office, or on the street, or in a supermarket, or in a restaurant or anywhere else . . . the fact he was killed is as bad as it gets.
Its why I think all murder (not manslaughter) should get whole life tariffs automatically. It doesn't get worse than murder for me. Its like asking what's the number higher than infinity?
I did find the slaughter of the 84 year old priest while he was actually giving Communion in a French church a few years back particularly shocking. There was a reason why the killer chose that moment and that location to carry out his horrible deed - it was intended to be a desecration, a sign of contempt and hatred. And that it was being done by someone who claimed to want respect for his own religion was why it was so horrible. There was a symbolic aspect to what he did which was intended to show utter contempt to something that others valued. I do not think you need to be religious to see that.
In the same way the fact that Sir David was killed while serving others shows utter contempt for the idea of public service and democracy. The murder - as all murders are - is horrible. But the symbolism of what was done, how and where also matters.
I like you hope he gets a whole life murder. And I hope this does not stop MPs doing their surgeries. It is a precious part of our democracy.
I hope too that it is not just MPs who are protected but also their staff who are often those who see people, read the emails and letters etc. And I also hope that those within parties and activist movements who target MPs or others in the public eye with abuse take a long hard look at themselves. Some of the stuff we have seen written in public places - as recently as yesterday - is pretty unpleasant and comes close to - or in some cases amounts to - threats of violence. This has got to stop. Vigorous free speech is one thing. Threatening violence is quite another.
Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.
Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.
Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.
But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount
Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid
I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above
Where's the money coming from Big_G?
Exactly
And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands
At least on the 27th we may have some idea
Easy - from future generations
I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high
If not maybe you could expand your view
The only options are borrow more or create a wealth tax - IHT won’t generate much
As a matter of interest how do you see a wealth tax working
My suggestion: 1% pa on all individual assets over £1m. Legal obligation to self-declare and complete an annual return.
So, assets of £1m = £0 Wealth Tax (WT) pa Assets of £1.5m = £5k WT pac(£500k over threshold x 1%) Assets of £2m = £10k WT pa (£1m over threshold x 1%) Assets of £10m = £90k WT pa Assets of £101m = £1m WT pa etc.
Seems fair enough
I would probably go for 0.5%, but agree with the principle.
Will kill off farming. All the land will have to be sold to housing developers.
Sorry Tim, I appreciate you are a long way away but this comment is dumb on several levels:
First, pulling 1% per annum out of large estates will never bankrupt those who own them.
Secondly, do you realise how tight the planning rules are in the UK, how difficult it is to convert farmland to housing?
Wealth is not liquidity. You don't have to go with the stereotype of a little old widow living on the state pension in a mansion to see that lots of high net asset people would struggle to produce 1pc cash every year. That's why racing on death when everything gets liquidated anyway is so handy. You would have to have a roll over till death option for the asset rich, cash poor, so why not go to enhanced death duties anyway?
I agree completely not least because that describes me (not a a widow living on just a state pension in a mansion).
I am retired. I have no income other than my state pension, but I have assets that I live off of. Some cash for the next few years, DC pension that I am not taking yet, shares that I can sell but would only fund me for a few years and 2 houses (home and holiday) that I will sell when I need the money. Most of the value it tied up in the house I live in so I could only afford the tax if I sold my home.
I am not poor, but I could not pay 1% of my asset value in tax, but happy to owe the tax and pay when I can.
Also how would the tax be applied re the following 3 scenarios: DB pension value, DC pension value, savings for retirement?
If DB pensions are excluded how is that fair on the majority of people whose retirement assets are not these and had no opportunity to get a DB pension. If not how does someone on a DB pension get the funds to pay the tax?
If you have over £1m in assets as suggested in the proposal above, you could very easily get a loan against the property to cover 1% asset tax.
Personally I would set a wealth tax to start at £10m as many people will think similarly to yourself, and also see £1m as attainable even if they are far from it currently.
Yes you could, but not straight forward if you don't have an income (see below). It also doesn't cover the DB pension issue. Why should they be exempt and how do they pay if they aren't?
Re your proposal I agree.
Re the getting a loan I have a fun story and actually many would consider it revenge by the system on me for my exploiting it for the last few decades. I have used 0% credit cards and 0% balance transfer cards with 0% fees to play the system to get free money effectively which I then invest. The more you do the better the credit it also seems, so you can do more. As soon as the time period is up I pay them off or if a free transfer to another card is available I do that. Not a lot of use now interest rates are low, but was very profitable in the old days. It is surprising what credit you can get and how much you can build up on them.
Now I have no income to talk of and the selection criteria is almost entirely income based I am snookered. The conversation normally goes along the line of 'you have no income to pay your credit card', 'but I have plenty of money to do so', 'sorry sir we can't take that into account when issuing a card. How are you going to pay it', ' As I said I have cash.', 'Sorry sir that doesn't count', 'If I buy an annuity with it you will give me the card then', 'yes sir'. 'How is that any different? You do know that lots of people have drawdown pensions now and so don't take a regular income', '!'.
Equity release is very straightforward for the vast majority of people with over £1m of property assets and no income. That is different to getting an unsecured loan or credit card which of course may be harder.
On defined benefit pensions I see no reason they should be exempt. Take the most extreme example of someone with a £1m db pension and no other assets.
They would receive £30-40k income and have to pay £10k additional tax, which is perfectly do-able, if harsh for a very unlikely edge case. As and when their pension value, which depreciates each year as they get older, drops below £1m they stop paying.
It's a mistake to set the threshold or rate too high.
For a general wealth tax imo the best model is Switzerland, which tends to start at about 0 reportable net assets or a little more, at a rate of 0.1-0.2%, then built to perhaps 0.5% at 1-2 million of assets.
I can see that eg foreign owned property needs a higher rate, perhaps 1%, to make sure it is used effectively.
It is an interesting way of doing it, having a near neglible rate at the lower end (0.1% of 100k assets is £100 pa). Perhaps that takes away the aspirational fear of it suddenly kicking in at £0.5-1m type levels that many dream of and a lot do hit as they get older.
For me it is the ultra wealthy who have benefited the most from recent government and monetary policies so those who should be targeted, but I can see the Swiss method of including most people might be better than starting at the rich but achievable levels.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
Crap.
The vast majority of Tories agree with me, as does much of the country hence we have a Conservative government with an overall majority still leading in the polls.
If you throw your toys out the pram and shout 'racist' at merely discussing better enforcement of security to tackle jihadi extremism all to the good, it will keep you and your fellow left liberals further away from power than ever!
Please show me a poll showing that most of the country, or even most Tories, believe that people shouldn't be free to travel abroad.
Better enforcement of security is a good idea, and the intelligence services are good at what they do. That's not what you're talking about though.
There is a difference in travelling to Spain and Florida on holiday and travelling to Somalia to be radicalised.
The latter must be banned
You're also banning aid workers delivering the UK's aid programme, people travelling home for funerals of close family members etc. And most "Jihadis" are radicalised online in the comfort of their own home. It would just be a dumb thing to do. By all means treat travel to countries like that as a red flag for security services monitoring of course - but I'm sure they're doing that anyway.
Something that showed up during covid was how little we know about where people travel once they have left the UK. We rely on honest self reporting to know that.
So HYUFDs "ban" would be trivial to get round by flying to France or Spain on "holiday" and then onto whatever destination they like afterwards. The UK would end up knowing less about where they actually went than we do now.
Rubbish, if they try an fly via other nations then we should work with French and Spanish agencies too to ensure they also enforce mandatory checks on travel to Somalia etc from there. They equally wish to stop Jihadism so I am sure would oblige
Do you realise how ridiculous this is? An effective blanket ban on travelling for anyone who has links to countries that have terrorists without any due process.
Should TSE be banned from travelling to visit family in Pakistan? Or Spain because he can get to Pakistan from there?
If TSE is travelling to visit family in Pakistan, his family in Pakistan can confirm that to the UK and Spanish authorities
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
The significance of him being a constituent of Starmers is that he shouldn't have been at Amess's constituency surgery. It is normal for such requests to be redirected to the appropriate MP. Admittedly this can be a problem when your own MP is a waste of space, but the first step in security should be that surgery's are by appointment only.
This can help with security. It is normal for appointments in my line to be labelled "not to be seen alone" or "not for female staff" because of past inappropriate behaviour, for example.
Indeed, and I know security has been beefed up. My sis-in-law used to work for a Labour MP when they were in government and they would just book a venue and keep an eye out for the people who shouldn't be allowed in.
Point is that MPs and their staff do not know every person in their constituency. We can't make such things completely secure without utterly changing what they are.
It wouldn't be unreasonable to check names against the electoral register and against the Prevent list of referrals. This would not mean refusing to see but could mean seeing in a safer situation.
Sadly I think we will have to. The problem is that MPs also go to public places where they are not able to have this protection. Jo Cox was murdered in the street. As was David Amess.
David Amess was murdered in a Church serving his constituents who loved him
Should the fact he was killed in a church make it worse? I think so, but maybe that is an old fashioned view
It’s definitely not a mitigating factor.
Although the circumstances of the victim being an MP, targeted specifically at his public surgery, should ensure that the perpetrator gets a whole-life tarrif in this case. The killer of Jo Cox got life meaning life, as did the policeman a few weeks ago who abducted a lady with his warrant card before killing her. Severely aggravating factors in cases like this, which distinguish them from other murders.
I am not sure at all as to what you are trying to say here.
Are you implicating Starmer and the Labour Party and/or are you demanding that the suspect should be referred to as an immigrant despite the country of birth?
Whatever your point(s) they appear both irrelevant and tasteless.
Boilerplate lefty knee jerk
How would I be implicating Sir Keir or Labour by mentioning he happened to be a constituent of his?! What planet do you live on?
And I’m saying it’s a bit unnecessary to call the murderer Somalian when he was born in England, so the opposite of what you want me to be saying so you can have a dig
You really weren’t sure, but alas went on one
0/2 try harder
You and I don't agree on a lot. But you are correct here. This man was not a Somali jihadi as a certain other poster insists. He was British. And if he was a constituent of SKS then that doesn't make his MP in any way complicit.
Initial reports I saw said he was Somali. However he’s English, born and bred. I would guess initial reports knew who,he was, who,his father was and put two and two together and got 5.
His father was a Somali immigrant, his son was a 25 year old who obviously was radicalised by going back to Somalia as even his own father warned was a major problem in some parts of the Somali community that had settled in Britain.
We therefore still need tighter border controls to check who is coming in and out of the country and their reasons for doing so
We don't know whether the arrested individual has ever set foot in Somalia.
As posted earlier, the words of the father of the suspect show quite clearly this is a big problem in the Somali community
'CUFFE: The Intelligence Service, of course, won’t reveal the source of their information about young British Somalis recruited to al-Shabaab. But rumours about youngsters being brainwashed and radicalised are causing growing concern among British Somalis – particularly the older generation, who fled chaos in Somalia and just want to see the return of stability and peace. Harbi Kullane tries to liaise between the community here and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government, which has international backing, but is seen by many Somalis as a puppet of the west. He is critical of British Somalis for their reluctance to speak openly about al-Shabaab.
KULLANE: If you’re walking in the street of Camden, if you walk in the streets of Southall or if you go to Leicester or even Birmingham you hear that young children who were here studying the religion have disappeared and gone back to Somalia. CUFFE: So have you met parents here in Britain who say that their young people have disappeared? KULLANE: At the moment the difficulty that we’re having with our society and diaspora is no parents are willing to come forward and say they are missing my child. CUFFE: If parents are keeping so quiet about that, aren’t they contributing to the problem? KULLANE: Directly or indirectly, they’re contributing it, but if they come forward and they say, “Our son has been there,” they fear some sort of a repercussion from the law, often from the country that they are being hosted.'
Just go away BigG to Labour, in fact never mind Labour go even further left because you are becoming even more leftwing than Starmer now.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
Post after post after post broadcasting the exact intolerance that is getting MPs murdered.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
Crap.
The vast majority of Tories agree with me, as does much of the country hence we have a Conservative government with an overall majority still leading in the polls.
If you throw your toys out the pram and shout 'racist' at merely discussing better enforcement of security to tackle jihadi extremism all to the good, it will keep you and your fellow left liberals further away from power than ever!
Please show me a poll showing that most of the country, or even most Tories, believe that people shouldn't be free to travel abroad.
Better enforcement of security is a good idea, and the intelligence services are good at what they do. That's not what you're talking about though.
There is a difference in travelling to Spain and Florida on holiday and travelling to Somalia to be radicalised.
The latter must be banned
Who is "travelling to Somalia to be radicalised" that isn't already radicalised?
And how do you know someone is travelling to Somalia to be radicalised? Should travelling to Somalia to visit family, or for tourism, or other reasons be banned?
I'd be very surprised if you could travel directly between the UK and Somalia. People would have to travel via neighbouring countries like Kenya - coincidentally where we have signed an agreement to recruit 20,000 nurses, who might want to travel back to see their families occasionally, but HYUFD wouldn't want that, on account of the risk that they might cross into Somalia and return as jihadis.
Comments
One has, on all the available evidence, to feel extremely sorry for the father.
The fact you and the ultra liberal left accuse anybody who points that out of hate speech and being a racist is where the problem lies as you want to end all discussion about actually tackling the problem to suit your leftwing agenda
It is therefore erroneous to conclude that travel to Somalia was a factor in the murder.
You have no place in the Tory Party and we do not want your vote if all you do is support the liberal left
As might be expected I refused to cooperate and would not answer any questions.
But for a 25 year old who may not have been around people much or at all during lockdown? Spending a lot of time on computers? How does that get spotted? And why would that fact alone be a concern? After all, most of us have probably spent much more time on the internet during lockdown than normal.
So it is easy to see how someone could get radicalised under the radar. And your border controls do nothing to deal with this sort of risk.
Apparently this chap was one of 6,000 people referred to the Prevent programme. 6,000. How many people do each of those need to stop them doing something awful? We are talking about thousands of people in multiple agencies. And how are the riskiest ones prioritised? I do not know what resources are available to Prevent but as well as risk prioritisation issues I suspect there is also a question of resources.
Remember also that some jihadis can be quite good at pretending that they have reformed, as in the case of the "reformed" jihadi prisoner who killed the two people in Fishmongers Hall in 2019.
By playing cut-and-run politics combined with a dire campaign she almost let Jeremy Corbyn's Labour party win. Which means Labour's hard left is now unshakeably convinced its policies can win...
Which will constantly undermine any moderate centre-left Labour leader aiming to make the party electable again. Which leaves Labour constantly on the back foot and the Conservatives in the ascendant.
https://twitter.com/stephentall/status/1449466178250870794?s=20
Just what kind of "border controls" are you proposing exactly? British citizens are free to travel and quite right too, that's something that almost every Briton accepts: Including Her Majesty the Queen on the front page of your Passport if you've ever read that.
We frequently get the old canard "a good election to lose" which is generally BS, but "a good election to nearly lose" is far better.
That you are the elected Chair of your local Conservative Association is an appalling indictment of the party.
What are you, an ultra-liberal leftie, trying to undermine the inalienable right of Englishmen to spout tosh morning, noon and night?
a) Nearly everyone stopped is through prior intelligence
b) To walk through, the main criteria is confidence
Just to add re recent trips by me:
a) None of the covid documentation was checked properly. No official checked them, just boarding staff and nothing on returning to the UK and any old document would have done provided it looked ok (typed, headed, etc) and had the word 'negative' and dated appropriately. None were taken out of my plastic wallet so only the first page was looked at and they have no idea the nurse, doctor or whoever whose paperwork I showed exists or not, or whether I just created it on my computer. Ditto the PLF. They are relying on passenger honesty to do the right thing.
b) My cycling partner cycled onto the ferry on the return to the UK without a ticket (I had both). Even me shouting at him from 100m behind that he didn't have his ticket seemed not to raise any concerns. No one cared. We were obviously not terrorists.
So now you wish to forbid Britons from travelling abroad?
That's never been a British policy or something Britons support. I think the policy you're looking for is that of the Iron Curtain.
Yes I agree that also has to be part of the battle enforcing those laws and arresting those who produce jihadi websites as well as tighter border controls
Instead let's examine the Border Force. Tory run for 11 years an incapable of operating Heathrow so that Brits don't have the risk of a 4 hour queue to get into their own country.
How exactly this government is to stop British citizens from going to the wrong places for the wrong reasons is laughable. Even if it is the racist fantasy of a desperate fool.
About 10 years ago I was living in Switzerland and went to St Petersburg for a long weekend via London.
On the way back whilst at the gate waiting for my flight back to Geneva from London my partner and I were approached by a guy in a suit who knew exactly who we were asked us to step away into a quiet area and asked us about our trip to St Petersburg, what we did and how it was and if we had any trouble with the authorities.
The fact that it wasn’t even as we got off the flight from St P but we were approached in person on our seats at the gate in transit was very interesting. Didn’t even ask us if we were Mr X and Ms Y but addressed us by name straight away.
The vast majority of Tories agree with me, as does much of the country hence we have a Conservative government with an overall majority still leading in the polls.
If you throw your toys out the pram and shout 'racist' at merely discussing better enforcement of security to tackle jihadi extremism all to the good, it will keep you and your fellow left liberals further away from power than ever!
Apart from the one born in Jamaica I think the furthest any of the 7/7 bombers got from Yorkshire was canoeing in Snowdonia National Park.
And whatever activists say about the SNP, it is not what Labour says to the voters. I live in Dundee West. Labour leaflets at the last election said vote Labour to stop the Tories. The SNP have a 10k+ majority in the seat, the Tories are nowhere and Labour did not lay a glove on the SNP. They were massacred again and not by the Tories. Its madness.
Better enforcement of security is a good idea, and the intelligence services are good at what they do. That's not what you're talking about though.
There is a clear and obvious difference between honest British satire and weaponising politicians.
Much easier to have that Quixotic vision than facing the dark truth that terrorism is far more of a domestic concern.
Thankfully the intelligence services are a lot more intelligent than that.
The latter must be banned
Property owners and their heirs in the South are also still Tory.
The Tories need both for a majority and as the latest polls show that coalition is still together with the Tories still ahead
That needs to be stopped as much as stopping jihadi websites and closing down jihadi meetings and preaching in the UK
They voted Tory as they are pro Brexit, wanted tighter immigration and border controls and they also tend to want a hardline on crime and those who may commit terrorist acts
I also have a far better idea than you living and working in such a place. The sort of place Tories used to hold with a thinly veiled contempt. These are the new Tories and their priorities are not the preservation of wealth when they don’t have any to preserve.
And how do you know someone is travelling to Somalia to be radicalised? Should travelling to Somalia to visit family, or for tourism, or other reasons be banned?
So HYUFDs "ban" would be trivial to get round by flying to France or Spain on "holiday" and then onto whatever destination they like afterwards. The UK would end up knowing less about where they actually went than we do now.
And if you tweak the definition a bit to include/except loyalty to the Conservative Party, then you have another problem, in that young HY has defined most of our Conservative PB posters as not real Conservatives at all.
The thing most likely to end SNP hegemony in Scotland imo is a Sindy Referendum. If it's won, there'll probably be a realignment of politics since with independence achieved people in larger numbers will start to vote their broader political view rather than just on this issue. And if it's lost, the drive for independence will lose salience and priority. The SNP could fight against this, keep "banging on" about independence, put yet another vote on it front and centre in their platform, but this would probably shed votes and end their dominance. Or alternatively, if it is another "No", they could go with the grain, de-prioritize independence, talk less about it, drop the commitment to hold another vote in the near future, and if they do this they will still likely shed votes (just maybe different ones) and see an end to their dominance.
So, that's my advice to Boris Johnson. Want to cut the SNP down to size? Hold that Sindy vote.
Re your proposal I agree.
Re the getting a loan I have a fun story and actually many would consider it revenge by the system on me for my exploiting it for the last few decades. I have used 0% credit cards and 0% balance transfer cards with 0% fees to play the system to get free money effectively which I then invest. The more you do the better the credit it also seems, so you can do more. As soon as the time period is up I pay them off or if a free transfer to another card is available I do that. Not a lot of use now interest rates are low, but was very profitable in the old days. It is surprising what credit you can get and how much you can build up on them.
Now I have no income to talk of and the selection criteria is almost entirely income based I am snookered. The conversation normally goes along the line of 'you have no income to pay your credit card', 'but I have plenty of money to do so', 'sorry sir we can't take that into account when issuing a card. How are you going to pay it', ' As I said I have cash.', 'Sorry sir that doesn't count', 'If I buy an annuity with it you will give me the card then', 'yes sir', 'How is that any different? You do know that lots of people have drawdown pensions now and so don't take a regular income', '!'.
It is a mystery to me how the Lord Advocate ever managed to sign off on this nonsense. He had an obligation to certify that the bill was within the competence of the Scottish Parliament and did so. The arguments that it was were frankly embarrassing and dismissed by the Supreme Court without difficulty applying very clear precedents. One can only hope that the current Lord Advocate will take her statutory duties a bit more seriously. I think that she will.
It was about a third of 2011 lab voters going into the IndyRef.
If you are a genuine aid worker you can prove it with papers and authorisation from the aid agency concerned. If you are travelling for a funeral you can prove it with confirmation from family and the religious minister concerned.
If you had bothered to read my posts which you clearly can't I made clear this must go alongside enforcing the ban on jihadi websites online
Whether he was killed in a Church, or in his own office, or on the street, or in a supermarket, or in a restaurant or anywhere else . . . the fact he was killed is as bad as it gets.
Its why I think all murder (not manslaughter) should get whole life tariffs automatically. It doesn't get worse than murder for me. Its like asking what's the number higher than infinity?
On defined benefit pensions I see no reason they should be exempt. Take the most extreme example of someone with a £1m db pension and no other assets.
They would receive £30-40k income and have to pay £10k additional tax, which is perfectly do-able, if harsh for a very unlikely edge case. As and when their pension value, which depreciates each year as they get older, drops below £1m they stop paying.
In any case there will be no Tory majority on the RedWall alone, if southern Tories go ReformUK or LD or stay home on polling day the Tories would lose their majority even if every 2019 RedWall Tory still voted Tory
Unless @HYUFD's Tory government is willing to put their money where their mouth is then this is all talk and little will be achieved. Effective counter-terrorism and deradicalisation take time and resources.
HYUFD claims to be the only gay in the village and denounces anyone less extreme than him. I never ever made a similar claim in the Labour party. It was that people who had views which profoundly clash with the constitution of the party should quit, not saying "we don't want your votes" like he does.
Unheard of on the subcontinent
For a general wealth tax imo the best model is Switzerland, which tends to start at about 0 reportable net assets or a little more, at a rate of 0.1-0.2%, then built to perhaps 0.5% at 1-2 million of assets.
I can see that eg foreign owned property needs a higher rate, perhaps 1%, to make sure it is used effectively.
Swiss details:
https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/switzerland/individual/other-taxes
From what I can tell, the best solution to angry young men/women is to tie them down with a job, a mortgage, a relationship and young children and they tend to move on and cease to be a threat.
Doesn’t always work, but better than what the bullshit deradicalisation industry can achieve.
"There's no money for HS2 NE."
"Why not?"
"We spent it on inflating the housing market, and building tunnels to protect the Nimbys of the Home Counties from HS2".
That'll go down well...
Reason I ask is that when I was early 20s and interrailing I had a similar. A "robust" interrogation at the French/Belgian border and a strip search for something they just knew I had but which I didn't have. Harsh words and sour breath in my face, possessions cut apart with a razor, gloved hand up my rectum. The works.
It didn't faze me that much at the time but if something like this were to happen to me now I'd be spooked and shaking like a leaf. My tolerance for physical and mental discomfort has really declined over the years.
Should TSE be banned from travelling to visit family in Pakistan? Or Spain because he can get to Pakistan from there?
I wouldn't want to secure force a homeowner to borrow to pay the bill just allow it to build up as a first charge (with interest added) until the property was sold.
1% or higher for properties not owned by UK residents makes perfect sense though.
And the delayed payment scheme it's the sort of thing that could be easily securitised and sold by the Government to a pension fund.
In the same way the fact that Sir David was killed while serving others shows utter contempt for the idea of public service and democracy. The murder - as all murders are - is horrible. But the symbolism of what was done, how and where also matters.
I like you hope he gets a whole life murder. And I hope this does not stop MPs doing their surgeries. It is a precious part of our democracy.
I hope too that it is not just MPs who are protected but also their staff who are often those who see people, read the emails and letters etc. And I also hope that those within parties and activist movements who target MPs or others in the public eye with abuse take a long hard look at themselves. Some of the stuff we have seen written in public places - as recently as yesterday - is pretty unpleasant and comes close to - or in some cases amounts to - threats of violence. This has got to stop. Vigorous free speech is one thing. Threatening violence is quite another.
How is that relevant to this? I don’t think Twitter abuse contributed to the radicalisation of the perpetrator.
For me it is the ultra wealthy who have benefited the most from recent government and monetary policies so those who should be targeted, but I can see the Swiss method of including most people might be better than starting at the rich but achievable levels.
Although the circumstances of the victim being an MP, targeted specifically at his public surgery, should ensure that the perpetrator gets a whole-life tarrif in this case. The killer of Jo Cox got life meaning life, as did the policeman a few weeks ago who abducted a lady with his warrant card before killing her. Severely aggravating factors in cases like this, which distinguish them from other murders.