He's just pointed out another problem, sort codes for a variety of reasons are fixed at a bank/branch level.
If we were to have a uniform account system, that means, there would be only 99,999,999 account numbers available.
Population of this country, 60 odd million, add in those with saving accounts and business accounts, we'd run out of account numbers before we even started.
Hmmm, you might be right; it might be more difficult to do than I first thought. That doesn't automatically mean it's impossible, or not worth doing.
Not for the first time, my instinctual reaction may well be wrong.
I should have remembered: never agree with Ed. ;-)
Mr. Eagles, that's a good point regarding hackers. It makes me wonder about biometrics. If a biometric ID tag (say, fingerprints) gets hacked and changed, how the hell would you fix that? That's why I think passwords and the like will never cease to be.
Those are pretty strong words from Osborne, if the EU was to remain obdurate.
As I told the French ambassador at a reception at his official residence (how's that for name dropping?), "If Britain has to choose between the EU and the City, it will choose the City".
You have some way to go to beat my best ever name drop:
"As I was saying to Helmut Schmidt only the other day at Davos..."
Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II once told me, she hates name droppers.
He's just pointed out another problem, sort codes for a variety of reasons are fixed at a bank/branch level.
If we were to have a uniform account system, that means, there would be only 99,999,999 account numbers available.
Population of this country, 60 odd million, add in those with saving accounts and business accounts, we'd run out of account numbers before we even started.
And that's even before you a add a digit or 2 as a Check Digit (as currently), or is he assuming that in this wonderful new world nobody transposes numbers incorrectly...
Those are pretty strong words from Osborne, if the EU was to remain obdurate.
As I told the French ambassador at a reception at his official residence (how's that for name dropping?), "If Britain has to choose between the EU and the City, it will choose the City".
You have some way to go to beat my best ever name drop:
"As I was saying to Helmut Schmidt only the other day at Davos..."
Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II once told me, she hates name droppers.
Surely "As Lilibet once told me ..."
Plebeian!
I was told by her staff to show all due deference at all times, so I'm sticking to what they said.
We may all believe that Bloggs has committed a criminal offence and also find, empanelled as jurors, that the Crown has not proved its case against Bloggs. Bloggs then claims to be "a wholly innocent man". The Scots have a "not proven" verdict - shouldn't the rest of us, too?
I have a friend who works in the IT department of a bank, he's just informed me, no one who works in the IT department for a bank, will ever vote for Ed Miliband,
Mr Miliband will also signal that Labour would consider forcing banks to give their customers “fully portable accounts” with a permanent account number, allowing them to switch to rival institutions in a matter of hours. The industry opposes such a move because it says it would involve large extra costs to adapt IT systems.
He clearly has no idea what that would involve. Never mind the big players; the cost of it would probably force many of the small ones to merge / be taken over, or source whole new systems from third parties (probably other financial institutions given that they'd all be re-writing them too). What'd that do to your market diversity?
Apparently the vein pattern doesn't change over time, so you can register a child and still recognise them as an adult
EDIT: I saw a demo of this about 7 years ago. It took place in a lecture theatre, directly under the infra-red transmitter for audio assistance system. Oops.
He's just pointed out another problem, sort codes for a variety of reasons are fixed at a bank/branch level.
If we were to have a uniform account system, that means, there would be only 99,999,999 account numbers available.
Population of this country, 60 odd million, add in those with saving accounts and business accounts, we'd run out of account numbers before we even started.
And that's even before you a add a digit or 2 as a Check Digit (as currently), or is he assuming that in this wonderful new world nobody transposes numbers incorrectly...
Another problem he has pointed out is, well this, if it is going to be seamless within hours transfer of accounts, then that is going to cause all sorts of problems with your account debit card, and Barclays have had huge problems with their in branch debit card replacement service.
He's coming to the conclusion Ed Miliband is a [moderated] who is technically illiterate, he can't turn on a PC.
Mr. P, but my concern is that the biometric data is stored somewhere (must be), that gets hacked and replaced with someone else's.
There's also the very rare but real problem of people with multiple DNAs. (I learnt about it at university, and was immensely self-satisfied when I solved a related medical problem on House before Hugh Laurie did). Sometimes when there are heterogenous embryos, one absorbs the other. A single person is born, but that individual has two (and could theoretically have more) DNA types. That's less a problem for biometrics, than for DNA in court, but it does highlight that rare or unusual medical issues don't make DNA or suchlike 100% perfect.
He's just pointed out another problem, sort codes for a variety of reasons are fixed at a bank/branch level.
If we were to have a uniform account system, that means, there would be only 99,999,999 account numbers available.
Population of this country, 60 odd million, add in those with saving accounts and business accounts, we'd run out of account numbers before we even started.
And that's even before you a add a digit or 2 as a Check Digit (as currently), or is he assuming that in this wonderful new world nobody transposes numbers incorrectly...
Another problem he has pointed out is, well this, if it is going to be seamless within hours transfer of accounts, then that is going to cause all sorts of problems with your account debit card, and Barclays have had huge problems with their in branch debit card replacement service.
He's coming to the conclusion Ed Miliband is a [moderated] who is technically illiterate, he can't turn on a PC.
He's just said, yeah, you really want people be able to walk out of a branch, with a new debit card as you open the account, rather than send the first card to the home address, fraudsters and identity thiefs are going to love that.
Those are pretty strong words from Osborne, if the EU was to remain obdurate.
As I told the French ambassador at a reception at his official residence (how's that for name dropping?), "If Britain has to choose between the EU and the City, it will choose the City".
You have some way to go to beat my best ever name drop:
"As I was saying to Helmut Schmidt only the other day at Davos..."
Mike would of course be too modest to repeat the story about chatting to Bill Clinton and Stephen Hawking in the Oval Office.
Margaret Thatcher gave her Indian counterpart Indira Gandhi Britain's full support in the immediate aftermath of the 1984 Golden Temple raid, according to private correspondence seen by the Guardian.
The then British prime minister sent a personal note saying that Britain supported India's unity in the face of demands for a separate Sikh homeland and disclosed that police were investigating threats against the safety of Indian diplomats.
He's coming to the conclusion Ed Miliband is a [moderated] who is technically illiterate, he can't turn on a PC.
I wouldn't disagree...
Although to be fair the same could be said of 90%+ of the House of Commons (see 'Porn Filter's' as another good example of total lack of technical understanding or competence.)
Mr. Hugh, can't comment on Kobo, but the Kindle's pretty good (very easy to read screen). Kobo, I think, uses ePub, which other stores also use, whereas Kindle use .mobi, which is Kindle-specific. If you mostly shop on Amazon then you may prefer a Kindle.
However, I think (you'd need to check with someone with a Kobo) that you'd be able to buy books from various stores (Diesel, Barnes & Noble, Kobo).
He's a bit of a tit to be sure, but how is that letter patronising? Isn't he just pointing out the disconnect between what ex-Labour UKIP voters might want and what the party's leadership advocates?
The tone seemed quite patronising to me, and having seen him and his smart arse ways more than I want to on tv, I just know how clever he thinks he is being...
He might as well be saying to plumbers and electricians that have seen their wages fall through the floor...
"I agree with you that I want our country to prosper, and mass immigration has increased GDP by 0.05p per person..."
Those are pretty strong words from Osborne, if the EU was to remain obdurate.
As I told the French ambassador at a reception at his official residence (how's that for name dropping?), "If Britain has to choose between the EU and the City, it will choose the City".
You have some way to go to beat my best ever name drop:
"As I was saying to Helmut Schmidt only the other day at Davos..."
Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II once told me, she hates name droppers.
Surely "As Lilibet once told me ..."
Plebeian!
My vicar beats that every week, as he was saying to God just last Sunday....
He's noticed that voters that Labour should be picking up are going elsewhere. But like Labour's leaders, he's tone deaf to how to appeal to those voters because he doesn't really understand them at all.
How do you know that? :-)
Because Labour haven't picked up those voters.
So is he wrong to say that they support the stuff he says they do?
He looks and sounds like the geek who tries to persuade the cool kids that he's into the latest ultra-trendy band. And is about as credible.
He'd do better to say "you come at things from a very different direction from me on some stuff. I respect that. But this is why you should support Labour".
It's a subset of the problem that all politicians are failing with at the moment, pretending to be men of the people when they transparently aren't. The first politician to say "I'm not a man of the people, nor do I pretend to be, but I am a man for the people" will make far more headway. (Or woman, as the case may be)
Mr. Hugh, I mostly buy from Amazon (except second hand, where I can recommend Abebooks), but my guess would be there's little difference on availability and price. Amazon does have a KDP Select thingummyjig, whereby it tries to get books on an exclusive basis. Not sure how often people sign up for that, and you can exit the programme (I think, never gone for it myself).
Those are pretty strong words from Osborne, if the EU was to remain obdurate.
As I told the French ambassador at a reception at his official residence (how's that for name dropping?), "If Britain has to choose between the EU and the City, it will choose the City".
You have some way to go to beat my best ever name drop:
"As I was saying to Helmut Schmidt only the other day at Davos..."
Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II once told me, she hates name droppers.
Surely "As Lilibet once told me ..."
Plebeian!
My vicar beats that every week, as he was saying to God just last Sunday....
I bet he didn't get his loan on favourable terms, though.
He's a bit of a tit to be sure, but how is that letter patronising? Isn't he just pointing out the disconnect between what ex-Labour UKIP voters might want and what the party's leadership advocates?
The tone seemed quite patronising to me, and having seen him and his smart arse ways more than I want to on tv, I just know how clever he thinks he is being...
He might as well be saying to plumbers and electricians that have seen their wages fall through the floor...
"I agree with you that I want our country to prosper, and mass immigration has increased GDP by 0.05p per person..."
He comes across terribly, I agree. But I can't see the harm in pointing out that a lot of things that potential UKIP voters say they want and believe in are totally contrary to the policies UKIP espouses. There will be a lot more of this as the election approaches - especially if Labour does begin to see UKIP as a threat.
Those are pretty strong words from Osborne, if the EU was to remain obdurate.
As I told the French ambassador at a reception at his official residence (how's that for name dropping?), "If Britain has to choose between the EU and the City, it will choose the City".
You have some way to go to beat my best ever name drop:
"As I was saying to Helmut Schmidt only the other day at Davos..."
Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II once told me, she hates name droppers.
Surely "As Lilibet once told me ..."
Plebeian!
My vicar beats that every week, as he was saying to God just last Sunday....
I bet he didn't get his loan on favourable terms, though.
Maybe he should change banks?
Ha Mr Pole he has indeed, I've just had an offer from HLF to do some serious structural work to our church.
He's a bit of a tit to be sure, but how is that letter patronising? Isn't he just pointing out the disconnect between what ex-Labour UKIP voters might want and what the party's leadership advocates?
The tone seemed quite patronising to me, and having seen him and his smart arse ways more than I want to on tv, I just know how clever he thinks he is being...
He might as well be saying to plumbers and electricians that have seen their wages fall through the floor...
"I agree with you that I want our country to prosper, and mass immigration has increased GDP by 0.05p per person..."
He's a bit of a tit to be sure, but how is that letter patronising? Isn't he just pointing out the disconnect between what ex-Labour UKIP voters might want and what the party's leadership advocates?
The tone seemed quite patronising to me, and having seen him and his smart arse ways more than I want to on tv, I just know how clever he thinks he is being...
He might as well be saying to plumbers and electricians that have seen their wages fall through the floor...
"I agree with you that I want our country to prosper, and mass immigration has increased GDP by 0.05p per person..."
He comes across terribly, I agree. But I can't see the harm in pointing out that a lot of things that potential UKIP voters say they want and believe in are totally contrary to the policies UKIP espouses. There will be a lot more of this as the election approaches - especially if Labour does begin to see UKIP as a threat.
He should have started with an acknowledgement that Labour called things wrong and then an apology.
There are programmes which convert from one format to another. The screen is made by one manufacturer in Taiwan. So you are looking at price and ease of software, and different types of ereader (eg light, wifi, screen size, etc)
He's a bit of a tit to be sure, but how is that letter patronising? Isn't he just pointing out the disconnect between what ex-Labour UKIP voters might want and what the party's leadership advocates?
The tone seemed quite patronising to me, and having seen him and his smart arse ways more than I want to on tv, I just know how clever he thinks he is being...
He might as well be saying to plumbers and electricians that have seen their wages fall through the floor...
"I agree with you that I want our country to prosper, and mass immigration has increased GDP by 0.05p per person..."
He comes across terribly, I agree. But I can't see the harm in pointing out that a lot of things that potential UKIP voters say they want and believe in are totally contrary to the policies UKIP espouses. There will be a lot more of this as the election approaches - especially if Labour does begin to see UKIP as a threat.
He's noticed that voters that Labour should be picking up are going elsewhere. But like Labour's leaders, he's tone deaf to how to appeal to those voters because he doesn't really understand them at all.
How do you know that? :-)
Because Labour haven't picked up those voters.
So is he wrong to say that they support the stuff he says they do?
He looks and sounds like the geek who tries to persuade the cool kids that he's into the latest ultra-trendy band. And is about as credible.
He'd do better to say "you come at things from a very different direction from me on some stuff. I respect that. But this is why you should support Labour".
It's a subset of the problem that all politicians are failing with at the moment, pretending to be men of the people when they transparently aren't. The first politician to say "I'm not a man of the people, nor do I pretend to be, but I am a man for the people" will make far more headway. (Or woman, as the case may be)
Fair points. However, I didn't read the letter as a support Labour piece. I don't think that Labour advocates much of the stuff he talks about. It seems more like an anti-UKIP article to me: if you like the NHS, if you believe in nationalisation, if you reject a flat tax, and so on, then you should know UKIP's leaders do not share your views. The problem for Owen is that concerns about immigration may well trump all those things; and he can't talk about his views on that with UKIP supporters.
My vicar beats that every week, as he was saying to God just last Sunday....
That reminds me of a conversation I overheard a few years ago in our village. There was due to be a concert in the church by an African spiritual choir, and some of the performers were taking a look round the village shops in the morning. A splendid Sussex lady (now, alas, passed away) got chatting to one of them, and asked what the concert was about. "We're gonna make some music, we're gonna sing and dance, and make everyone happy, and maybe the good Lord will come down amongst us", to which she replied in her strong down-to-earth Sussex accent: "Oh, I expect He will. He comes every Sunday, you know".
I wonder if the main impact from this is that the Lib Dems will lose the right to talk about the sex abuse celebrity scandals lest they be quizzed about their own ineffective record?
Hugh - The other advantage of a kindle is this, there are kindle apps for both apple and android devices, so if you get a tablet or phone, your purchases will be viewable on those devices.
I haven't tried Kobo, but love kindles. Has page change buttons on each side (underratedly important, esp for left-handed people like my good self). Works well in full sunlight, easy to read. Amazon has a lot of availability at a good price.
(Relates to the e-reader style Kindles, not the tablets).
My vicar beats that every week, as he was saying to God just last Sunday....
That reminds me of a conversation I overheard a few years ago in our village. There was due to be a concert by an African spiritual choir, and some of the performers were taking a look round the village shops in the morning. A splendid Sussex lady (now, alas, passed away) got chatting to one of them, and asked what the concert was about. "We're gonna make some music, we're gonna sing and dance, and make everyone happy, and maybe the good Lord will come down amongst us", to which she replied in her strong down-to-earth Sussex accent: "Oh, I expect He will. He comes every Sunday, you know".
Paris is unbelievably expensive: prices for everything are ridiculous. Went to that restaurant you recommended. It was very good. But it was much more than you'd pay in London.
Mr. Hugh, can't comment on Kobo, but the Kindle's pretty good (very easy to read screen). Kobo, I think, uses ePub, which other stores also use, whereas Kindle use .mobi, which is Kindle-specific. If you mostly shop on Amazon then you may prefer a Kindle.
However, I think (you'd need to check with someone with a Kobo) that you'd be able to buy books from various stores (Diesel, Barnes & Noble, Kobo).
Thanks.
It's mainly the price / availability of books I'm bothered about.
Which is better on that score - Amazon or Everything Else?
Mr. Hugh,
I wouldn't like to try and sound authoritative on that question but I can say in two and a bit years of heavy Kindle use I have not yet had a situation where a book that I wanted to read electronically (text books with lots of graphics/pictures don't really work electronically) was not available nor where I thought the price charged was excessive.
I have designed and built a Kindle bed-stand which means it is possible to read in bed without poking even so much as a finger out from under the duvet to turn the page, which makes the Kindle the best bit of technology invented in my lifetime.
Perhaps the acid test ought to be, is Sir Edric's Temple (by Thaddeus White, a hilarious romp which the author sells for a pathetic amount of money) available in Kobo. If it isn't available then go for the Kindle. If it is, well, pay your money and take your pick, there probably ain't a fag paper between them.
My vicar beats that every week, as he was saying to God just last Sunday....
That reminds me of a conversation I overheard a few years ago in our village. There was due to be a concert in the church by an African spiritual choir, and some of the performers were taking a look round the village shops in the morning. A splendid Sussex lady (now, alas, passed away) got chatting to one of them, and asked what the concert was about. "We're gonna make some music, we're gonna sing and dance, and make everyone happy, and maybe the good Lord will come down amongst us", to which she replied in her strong down-to-earth Sussex accent: "Oh, I expect He will. He comes every Sunday, you know".
Mr. Hugh, can't comment on Kobo, but the Kindle's pretty good (very easy to read screen). Kobo, I think, uses ePub, which other stores also use, whereas Kindle use .mobi, which is Kindle-specific. If you mostly shop on Amazon then you may prefer a Kindle.
However, I think (you'd need to check with someone with a Kobo) that you'd be able to buy books from various stores (Diesel, Barnes & Noble, Kobo).
Thanks.
It's mainly the price / availability of books I'm bothered about.
Which is better on that score - Amazon or Everything Else?
Mr. Hugh,
I wouldn't like to try and sound authoritative on that question but I can say in two and a bit years of heavy Kindle use I have not yet had a situation where a book that I wanted to read electronically (text books with lots of graphics/pictures don't really work electronically) was not available nor where I thought the price charged was excessive.
I have designed and built a Kindle bed-stand which means it is possible to read in bed without poking even so much as a finger out from under the duvet to turn the page, which makes the Kindle the best bit of technology invented in my lifetime.
Perhaps the acid test ought to be, is Sir Edric's Temple (by Thaddeus White, a hilarious romp which the author sells for a pathetic amount of money) available in Kobo. If it isn't available then go for the Kindle. If it is, well, pay your money and take your pick, there probably ain't a fag paper between them.
I heartily recommend books by Thaddeus White, his Bane of Souls sells for 75p.
The second best 75p I've ever spent, number 1 was when I put a fizzy sweet into a bottle of coke, and shook it for 10 mins.
Paris is unbelievably expensive: prices for everything are ridiculous. Went to that restaurant you recommended. It was very good. But it was much more than you'd pay in London.
Glad you liked it. I haven't been to Paris for a couple of years, it sounds as though prices must have increased a lot.
The Good Lady Wife has a few good name-dropping gambits, but surely her best are:
"As Betty Bacall told me about Bogart/Sinatra/Hemingway...."
Anyway, my little sci-fi rom-com movie script is one final corporate blessing away from a pretty damned spectacular name drop. Fingers crossed for me, Peebs! More anon....
I heartily recommend books by Thaddeus White, his Bane of Souls sells for 75p.
The second best 75p I've ever spent, number 1 was when I put a fizzy sweet into a bottle of coke, and shook it for 10 mins.
Exactly, Mr. Eagles, I have often thought that Thaddeus White must have lost his marbles. He writes great stories, and Sir Edric's Temple is his best yet - haven't laughed so much at a book since I first read Tom Sharpe's Riotous Assembly, and yet he sells them for such silly money. He needs counselling in my view.
I heartily recommend books by Thaddeus White, his Bane of Souls sells for 75p.
The second best 75p I've ever spent, number 1 was when I put a fizzy sweet into a bottle of coke, and shook it for 10 mins.
Exactly, Mr. Eagles, I have often thought that Thaddeus White must have lost his marbles. He writes great stories, and Sir Edric's Temple is his best yet - haven't laughed so much at a book since I first read Tom Sharpe's Riotous Assembly, and yet he sells them for such silly money. He needs counselling in my view.
I'm assuming his next fiction book/comedy will be about Hannibal being the greatest military strategist in human history.
Paris is unbelievably expensive: prices for everything are ridiculous. Went to that restaurant you recommended. It was very good. But it was much more than you'd pay in London.
Glad you liked it. I haven't been to Paris for a couple of years, it sounds as though prices must have increased a lot.
It's almost Oslo-esque. Two beers and a Perrier yesterday in a nothing bar in St Germain cost over £20.
I heartily recommend books by Thaddeus White, his Bane of Souls sells for 75p.
The second best 75p I've ever spent, number 1 was when I put a fizzy sweet into a bottle of coke, and shook it for 10 mins.
Exactly, Mr. Eagles, I have often thought that Thaddeus White must have lost his marbles. He writes great stories, and Sir Edric's Temple is his best yet - haven't laughed so much at a book since I first read Tom Sharpe's Riotous Assembly, and yet he sells them for such silly money. He needs counselling in my view.
I'm assuming his next fiction book/comedy will be about Hannibal being the greatest military strategist in human history.
Thanks for that Mr. Eagles. I just snorted my evening whiskey over the keyboard. Best I pour myself another one.
Paris is unbelievably expensive: prices for everything are ridiculous. Went to that restaurant you recommended. It was very good. But it was much more than you'd pay in London.
Glad you liked it. I haven't been to Paris for a couple of years, it sounds as though prices must have increased a lot.
It's almost Oslo-esque. Two beers and a Perrier yesterday in a nothing bar in St Germain cost over £20.
Strikes Paris off the list of cities I was going to (re)visit in 2014! That's worse than Dublin!
Cathy Newman vs Lord Carlile is entertaining viewing.
Someone really should tell Lord Carlile that looking into the camera, rather than down and to the left is a much better look if you want to persuade your audience that you are convinced if your case.....
Paris is unbelievably expensive: prices for everything are ridiculous. Went to that restaurant you recommended. It was very good. But it was much more than you'd pay in London.
Glad you liked it. I haven't been to Paris for a couple of years, it sounds as though prices must have increased a lot.
It's almost Oslo-esque. Two beers and a Perrier yesterday in a nothing bar in St Germain cost over £20.
Strikes Paris off the list of cities I was going to (re)visit in 2014! That's worse than Dublin!
Cathy Newman vs Lord Carlile is entertaining viewing.
Someone really should tell Lord Carlile that looking into the camera, rather than down and to the left is a much better look if you want to persuade your audience that you are convinced if your case.....
It was his comment where he said the Lib Dems are 'sanctimonious to a fault' that raised a smile.
Paris is unbelievably expensive: prices for everything are ridiculous. Went to that restaurant you recommended. It was very good. But it was much more than you'd pay in London.
Glad you liked it. I haven't been to Paris for a couple of years, it sounds as though prices must have increased a lot.
It's almost Oslo-esque. Two beers and a Perrier yesterday in a nothing bar in St Germain cost over £20.
Strikes Paris off the list of cities I was going to (re)visit in 2014! That's worse than Dublin!
I have a friend who works in the IT department of a bank, he's just informed me, no one who works in the IT department for a bank, will ever vote for Ed Miliband,
Mr Miliband will also signal that Labour would consider forcing banks to give their customers “fully portable accounts” with a permanent account number, allowing them to switch to rival institutions in a matter of hours. The industry opposes such a move because it says it would involve large extra costs to adapt IT systems.
I know dozens of teachers in my ultra-marginal constituency, mostly working or retired after working in private schools, and they all loathe Michael Gove and will vote to get rid of him.
So what? Anecdotal stuff like this does not prove anything.
The lib dem position on this seems to be that, even though Rennard was exonerated, women were caused distress.
That's a completely bonkers position, because it implies that the women were offended by something that was harmless and not worthy of serious sanction.
In other words, that the women had been overly sensitive.
A couple of right-wing rags have a pop at those cuddly Lib Dems over the blameless Lord Rennard:
Once again, the Liberal Democrats are having trouble with women. The party has decided not to take disciplinary action against its former chief executive, Lord Rennard, who has always denied allegations that he sexually harassed female colleagues. But the findings of Alistair Webster QC, who looked at the evidence as part of a disciplinary process, make uncomfortable reading for senior Lib Dems. To outsiders, the episode appears to confirm the impression that the party remains a boys' club, and one that doesn't know where to draw boundaries in questions relating to power and gender.
The Liberal Democrats were tonight accused of opting for “cowardice” over action after the party claimed it was powerless to take disciplinary proceedings against its former chief executive over allegations of sexual harassment.
The lib dem position on this seems to be that, even though Rennard was exonerated, women were caused distress.
That's a completely bonkers position, because it implies that the women were offended by something that was harmless and not worthy of serious sanction.
In other words, that the women had been overly sensitive.
You're wrong about the position.
The actual Lib Dem position is very probably, we think he did it but QC says not enough evidence to prove it.
The theoretical position is that the QC says that the aspect that couldn't be proven was the intent, not that distress was caused. But even if distress was unintentional an apology is still warranted.
To quote from statement:
"In my opinion, the evidence of behaviour which violated the personal space and autonomy of the complainants was broadly credible. However, it is my judgment, considering all of the evidence collected, that it is unlikely that it could be established beyond reasonable doubt that Lord Rennard had intended to act in an indecent or sexually inappropriate way. Without proof of such an intention, I do not consider that such a charge would be tenable."
The lib dem position on this seems to be that, even though Rennard was exonerated, women were caused distress.
That's a completely bonkers position, because it implies that the women were offended by something that was harmless and not worthy of serious sanction.
In other words, that the women had been overly sensitive.
You're wrong about the position.
The actual Lib Dem position is very probably, we think he did it but QC says not enough evidence to prove it."
Quite. Farron just invited C4 viewers to "read between the lines" of the report....
It will be interesting to see if Rennard has the Whip restored in the Lords....
"This is a bit mad, the stock market was all over the place so you can "prove" a rise or decline by picking peaks, the rest of the trends like the trade deficit are long-term trends for the UK and a lot of other western countries."
Why is it mad ? The FTSE100 has NEVER returned to the level it started the new millenium at.
Meanwhile the DJIA is I think over 40% higher.
Does anyone have the corresponding performances of other leading stock markets ?
The weakness of the UK stock market will have had a material financial effect on anyone who's had personal pensions, life assurance policies etc.
As to the other trends I mentioned - perpetual trade deficit, industrial production, reduction in productivity growth, ever growing debt etc - I doubt any other leading western country has had such a combination of adverse trends over the last decade.
If anyone wants to give data for industrial production and trade balances for the G7 countries since 2000 they would be greatly received.
And the UK economy had these adverse trends at the time we have been having what, we are told, is the great economic boon of massive immigration.
So I return to my original point:
Either immigration hasn't been the great economic boon the rich and powerful keep telling us it is or some point from 2000 onwards fundamental structural damage was done to the UK economy.
What does Rennard have? I mean, why can't the LibDems just cut links with him when his membership runs out regardless of fault?
Aiui, the Lib Dem regs are pretty clear on what's needed for someone to be thrown out of the party, and according to QC bloke there's not sufficient evidence (i.e. proof beyond reasonable doubt of bringing party into disrepute) to do that.
(Due to the history of the Lib Dems, the way the party's structured means it's leadership is the least powerful of the 3 major parties, and with ordinary members having the most power/rights. Compare policy-making for example).
As a side note said standards and procedures are getting reviewed.
corporeal, it certainly seems ON A BALANCE OF PROBABILITIES there is enough reason to condemn Lord Rennard and ask him to step aside from politics. That a QC thinks the threshhold of BEYOND ALL REASONABLE DOUBT can't be met is a red herring.
Would any senior LibDem want their daughter working with Rennard, I wonder? If not, they shouldn't ask others to.
So is he wrong to say that they support the stuff he says they do?
He looks and sounds like the geek who tries to persuade the cool kids that he's into the latest ultra-trendy band. And is about as credible.
He'd do better to say "you come at things from a very different direction from me on some stuff. I respect that. But this is why you should support Labour".
It's a subset of the problem that all politicians are failing with at the moment, pretending to be men of the people when they transparently aren't. The first politician to say "I'm not a man of the people, nor do I pretend to be, but I am a man for the people" will make far more headway. (Or woman, as the case may be)
Fair points. However, I didn't read the letter as a support Labour piece. I don't think that Labour advocates much of the stuff he talks about. It seems more like an anti-UKIP article to me: if you like the NHS, if you believe in nationalisation, if you reject a flat tax, and so on, then you should know UKIP's leaders do not share your views. The problem for Owen is that concerns about immigration may well trump all those things; and he can't talk about his views on that with UKIP supporters.
I think UKIP have scrapped that flat tax idea, and to be fair, because they have realised that they are attracting poorer voters that aren't ex Tories, they have moved away from some of their old policies... not sticking to their ideology you might say
As you say, Owen Jones stance on immigration would result in a
"You lost me at 'youre like me' " moment, to paraphrase Jerry Maguire
... not to mention gay marriage!
Most working class people I know would like to bash him up!
The lib dem position on this seems to be that, even though Rennard was exonerated, women were caused distress.
That's a completely bonkers position, because it implies that the women were offended by something that was harmless and not worthy of serious sanction.
In other words, that the women had been overly sensitive.
You're wrong about the position.
The actual Lib Dem position is very probably, we think he did it but QC says not enough evidence to prove it."
Quite. Farron just invited C4 viewers to "read between the lines" of the report....
It will be interesting to see if Rennard has the Whip restored in the Lords....
Lord Rennard said he looked forward to resuming his roles within the party, the party leadership appears to be of a rather different view to say the least.
corporeal, it certainly seems ON A BALANCE OF PROBABILITIES there is enough reason to condemn Lord Rennard and ask him to step aside from politics. That a QC thinks the threshhold of BEYOND ALL REASONABLE DOUBT can't be met is a red herring.
Would any senior LibDem want their daughter working with Rennard, I wonder? If not, they shouldn't ask others to.
Mark, given the Lib Dem regs apparently require beyond reasonable doubt in order to throw someone out of the party it's not a red herring.
I'd imagine they'd be delighted if Rennard did one and never came back to politics again. But they can ask, but not force. And he doesn't seem keen on leaving politics.
The lib dem position on this seems to be that, even though Rennard was exonerated, women were caused distress.
That's a completely bonkers position, because it implies that the women were offended by something that was harmless and not worthy of serious sanction.
In other words, that the women had been overly sensitive.
You're wrong about the position.
The actual Lib Dem position is very probably, we think he did it but QC says not enough evidence to prove it."
Quite. Farron just invited C4 viewers to "read between the lines" of the report....
It will be interesting to see if Rennard has the Whip restored in the Lords....
Lord Rennard said he looked forward to resuming his roles within the party, the party leadership appears to be of a rather different view to say the least.
Lord Rennard, and his apologists on here, appear to believe that he is blameless and beyond reproach....at least the QC nailed their "it was all got up because of Eastleigh" smear - but I doubt they'll apologise for that either.....
I have a friend who works in the IT department of a bank, he's just informed me, no one who works in the IT department for a bank, will ever vote for Ed Miliband,
Mr Miliband will also signal that Labour would consider forcing banks to give their customers “fully portable accounts” with a permanent account number, allowing them to switch to rival institutions in a matter of hours. The industry opposes such a move because it says it would involve large extra costs to adapt IT systems.
I know dozens of teachers in my ultra-marginal constituency, mostly working or retired after working in private schools, and they all loathe Michael Gove and will vote to get rid of him.
So what? Anecdotal stuff like this does not prove anything.
"This is a bit mad, the stock market was all over the place so you can "prove" a rise or decline by picking peaks, the rest of the trends like the trade deficit are long-term trends for the UK and a lot of other western countries."
Why is it mad ? The FTSE100 has NEVER returned to the level it started the new millenium at.
Meanwhile the DJIA is I think over 40% higher.
Does anyone have the corresponding performances of other leading stock markets ?
The weakness of the UK stock market will have had a material financial effect on anyone who's had personal pensions, life assurance policies etc.
As to the other trends I mentioned - perpetual trade deficit, industrial production, reduction in productivity growth, ever growing debt etc - I doubt any other leading western country has had such a combination of adverse trends over the last decade.
If anyone wants to give data for industrial production and trade balances for the G7 countries since 2000 they would be greatly received.
And the UK economy had these adverse trends at the time we have been having what, we are told, is the great economic boon of massive immigration.
So I return to my original point:
Either immigration hasn't been the great economic boon the rich and powerful keep telling us it is or some point from 2000 onwards fundamental structural damage was done to the UK economy.
Firstly, total returns - including dividends reinvested - are much closer between the UK and the US, because American companies pay much lower dividends.
Secondly, I can happily pick times when the UK had outperformed, it's all a matter of choosing my start date.
"This is a bit mad, the stock market was all over the place so you can "prove" a rise or decline by picking peaks, the rest of the trends like the trade deficit are long-term trends for the UK and a lot of other western countries."
Why is it mad ? The FTSE100 has NEVER returned to the level it started the new millenium at.
Meanwhile the DJIA is I think over 40% higher.
Does anyone have the corresponding performances of other leading stock markets ?
The weakness of the UK stock market will have had a material financial effect on anyone who's had personal pensions, life assurance policies etc.
As to the other trends I mentioned - perpetual trade deficit, industrial production, reduction in productivity growth, ever growing debt etc - I doubt any other leading western country has had such a combination of adverse trends over the last decade.
If anyone wants to give data for industrial production and trade balances for the G7 countries since 2000 they would be greatly received.
And the UK economy had these adverse trends at the time we have been having what, we are told, is the great economic boon of massive immigration.
So I return to my original point:
Either immigration hasn't been the great economic boon the rich and powerful keep telling us it is or some point from 2000 onwards fundamental structural damage was done to the UK economy.
Just watching Channel 4 news on +1. Rennard's defender, Lord Carlile, is coming across as a total arse. Seems to think because there were 4 people saying Rennard had behaved improperly and 100 said "Rennard never goosed me", weight of numbers makes it all fine and dandy.
"Monstrously wrong" to say Rennard should issue an apology, he says.
Just watching Channel 4 news on +1. Rennard's defender, Lord Carlile, is coming across as a total arse. Seems to think because there were 4 people saying Rennard had behaved improperly and 100 said "Rennard never goosed me", weight of numbers makes it all fine and dandy.
"Monstrously wrong" to say Rennard should issue an apology, he says.
It should be remembered that for most of the last decade, Lord Carlile was the independent reviewer of British anti-terrorist laws.
I have a friend who works in the IT department of a bank, he's just informed me, no one who works in the IT department for a bank, will ever vote for Ed Miliband,
Mr Miliband will also signal that Labour would consider forcing banks to give their customers “fully portable accounts” with a permanent account number, allowing them to switch to rival institutions in a matter of hours. The industry opposes such a move because it says it would involve large extra costs to adapt IT systems.
I know dozens of teachers in my ultra-marginal constituency, mostly working or retired after working in private schools, and they all loathe Michael Gove and will vote to get rid of him.
So what? Anecdotal stuff like this does not prove anything.
My anecdote is better than your anecdote...
I know a guy who works for a pollster who said so, so it must be true.
I'd be interested in seeing a poll of people on average income and attitudes to taxation... Public sector workers aside, do they really want the rich taxed to death to support others.. I would have thought many strived to be rich themselves and were quite relaxed about tax
Jon Snow tweets: Rennard probably the only person who can save his party: apologise, as commanded, and rip up his membership card: but he's still in denial..
I have a friend who works in the IT department of a bank, he's just informed me, no one who works in the IT department for a bank, will ever vote for Ed Miliband,
Mr Miliband will also signal that Labour would consider forcing banks to give their customers “fully portable accounts” with a permanent account number, allowing them to switch to rival institutions in a matter of hours. The industry opposes such a move because it says it would involve large extra costs to adapt IT systems.
I know dozens of teachers in my ultra-marginal constituency, mostly working or retired after working in private schools, and they all loathe Michael Gove and will vote to get rid of him.
So what? Anecdotal stuff like this does not prove anything.
My anecdote is better than your anecdote...
I know a guy who works for a pollster who said so, so it must be true.
I regularly meet a variety of men (specifically) in pubs. Consequently I have a selection of totally unbiased and informed opinions.
"This is a bit mad, the stock market was all over the place so you can "prove" a rise or decline by picking peaks, the rest of the trends like the trade deficit are long-term trends for the UK and a lot of other western countries."
Why is it mad ? The FTSE100 has NEVER returned to the level it started the new millenium at.
Meanwhile the DJIA is I think over 40% higher.
Does anyone have the corresponding performances of other leading stock markets ?
The weakness of the UK stock market will have had a material financial effect on anyone who's had personal pensions, life assurance policies etc.
As to the other trends I mentioned - perpetual trade deficit, industrial production, reduction in productivity growth, ever growing debt etc - I doubt any other leading western country has had such a combination of adverse trends over the last decade.
If anyone wants to give data for industrial production and trade balances for the G7 countries since 2000 they would be greatly received.
And the UK economy had these adverse trends at the time we have been having what, we are told, is the great economic boon of massive immigration.
So I return to my original point:
Either immigration hasn't been the great economic boon the rich and powerful keep telling us it is or some point from 2000 onwards fundamental structural damage was done to the UK economy.
Firstly, total returns - including dividends reinvested - are much closer between the UK and the US, because American companies pay much lower dividends.
Secondly, I can happily pick times when the UK had outperformed, it's all a matter of choosing my start date.
But the UK HAS underperformed since 2000 compared to economic cycles beforehand. In fact the performance of the UK economy since 2000 would have been regarded as disasterous in earlier times.
And this despite the immigration which we are told has been such a great economic boon.
So I'll repeat, yet again, either immigration hasn't been the greater economic boon the rich and powerful keep telling us it is or some point from 2000 onwards fundamental structural damage was done to the UK economy.
What a ridiculous comparison between the USA and the UK. They're clearly very different cases. The most obvious one is that the US has huge amounts of land and is very thinly populated, meaning that importing large numbers of people won't drive up land prices and prevent people getting on the housing ladder. The second issue is that the United States has traditionally had a far smaller welfare state, meaning it's healthcare system won't struggle to cope with the influx. Thirdly, virtually all immigration to the US has been European and Hispanic immigrants, who quickly integrate and have very high rates of intermarriage with the rest of the population. This prevents ethnically-based segregation, which ramps up social tension. In addition, the immigrants to the US tend to have a similar level of religiosity, meaning there isn't the scale of culture clash you get when you import people from places like Africa, the Middle East and central Asia.
"I'm sure the hackers of this world, would love a system where all the banks in the UK used the same IT system to manage bank accounts and you had a permanent account number you could switch seamlessly between banks within hours"
I have a friend who works in the IT department of a bank, he's just informed me, no one who works in the IT department for a bank, will ever vote for Ed Miliband,
Mr Miliband will also signal that Labour would consider forcing banks to give their customers “fully portable accounts” with a permanent account number, allowing them to switch to rival institutions in a matter of hours. The industry opposes such a move because it says it would involve large extra costs to adapt IT systems.
What a ridiculous comparison between the USA and the UK. They're clearly very different cases. The most obvious one is that the US has huge amounts of land and is very thinly populated, meaning that importing large numbers of people won't drive up land prices and prevent people getting on the housing ladder. The second issue is that the United States has traditionally had a far smaller welfare state, meaning it's healthcare system won't struggle to cope with the influx. Thirdly, virtually all immigration to the US has been European and Hispanic immigrants, who quickly integrate and have very high rates of intermarriage with the rest of the population. This prevents ethnically-based segregation, which ramps up social tension. In addition, the immigrants to the US tend to have a similar level of religiosity, meaning there isn't the scale of culture clash you get when you import people from places like Africa, the Middle East and central Asia.
"This is a bit mad, the stock market was all over the place so you can "prove" a rise or decline by picking peaks, the rest of the trends like the trade deficit are long-term trends for the UK and a lot of other western countries."
Why is it mad ? The FTSE100 has NEVER returned to the level it started the new millenium at.
Meanwhile the DJIA is I think over 40% higher.
Does anyone have the corresponding performances of other leading stock markets ?
The weakness of the UK stock market will have had a material financial effect on anyone who's had personal pensions, life assurance policies etc.
As to the other trends I mentioned - perpetual trade deficit, industrial production, reduction in productivity growth, ever growing debt etc - I doubt any other leading western country has had such a combination of adverse trends over the last decade.
If anyone wants to give data for industrial production and trade balances for the G7 countries since 2000 they would be greatly received.
And the UK economy had these adverse trends at the time we have been having what, we are told, is the great economic boon of massive immigration.
So I return to my original point:
Either immigration hasn't been the great economic boon the rich and powerful keep telling us it is or some point from 2000 onwards fundamental structural damage was done to the UK economy.
Has the UK had a stellar performance compared to Japan over the last decade ? Not as far as I'm aware.
I've just discovered the tradingeconomics website so I'll have a look for some details.
My logic is that I wish to know why if immigration is said to be such a great economic boon the UK economy has performed so badly during the last decade.
When you mentioned "the turn of the century", I understood you were referencing 1900, which is why I said Europeans and Hispanic Americans. If you were meaning 2000, then I would just restrict that to Hispanic Americans, who outnumber the African immigrants five to one.
You also clearly don't know the US landscape very well. Immigration to the US happens significantly in rural areas:
Even when it is to cities, they may be densely population, but they are not short of land, except for a few individual cases. LA, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Las Vegas, Phoenix all expand easily. Even in constrained cities like San Francisco, the greater urban area expands outwoods: the Hispanics move to Oakland rather than the city itself.
Comments
Not for the first time, my instinctual reaction may well be wrong.
I should have remembered: never agree with Ed. ;-)
Mr. Eagles, that's a good point regarding hackers. It makes me wonder about biometrics. If a biometric ID tag (say, fingerprints) gets hacked and changed, how the hell would you fix that? That's why I think passwords and the like will never cease to be.
Plebeian!
http://www.yubico.com/products/yubikey-hardware/yubikey/
And for biometrics
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/06/palm_vein_reader_banking_trial/
Apparently the vein pattern doesn't change over time, so you can register a child and still recognise them as an adult
EDIT: I saw a demo of this about 7 years ago. It took place in a lecture theatre, directly under the infra-red transmitter for audio assistance system. Oops.
He's coming to the conclusion Ed Miliband is a [moderated] who is technically illiterate, he can't turn on a PC.
There's also the very rare but real problem of people with multiple DNAs. (I learnt about it at university, and was immensely self-satisfied when I solved a related medical problem on House before Hugh Laurie did). Sometimes when there are heterogenous embryos, one absorbs the other. A single person is born, but that individual has two (and could theoretically have more) DNA types. That's less a problem for biometrics, than for DNA in court, but it does highlight that rare or unusual medical issues don't make DNA or suchlike 100% perfect.
The then British prime minister sent a personal note saying that Britain supported India's unity in the face of demands for a separate Sikh homeland and disclosed that police were investigating threats against the safety of Indian diplomats.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/15/margaret-thatcher-golden-temple-raid-support-letter
Although to be fair the same could be said of 90%+ of the House of Commons (see 'Porn Filter's' as another good example of total lack of technical understanding or competence.)
However, I think (you'd need to check with someone with a Kobo) that you'd be able to buy books from various stores (Diesel, Barnes & Noble, Kobo).
He might as well be saying to plumbers and electricians that have seen their wages fall through the floor...
"I agree with you that I want our country to prosper, and mass immigration has increased GDP by 0.05p per person..."
He'd do better to say "you come at things from a very different direction from me on some stuff. I respect that. But this is why you should support Labour".
It's a subset of the problem that all politicians are failing with at the moment, pretending to be men of the people when they transparently aren't. The first politician to say "I'm not a man of the people, nor do I pretend to be, but I am a man for the people" will make far more headway. (Or woman, as the case may be)
Maybe he should change banks?
I wonder if the main impact from this is that the Lib Dems will lose the right to talk about the sex abuse celebrity scandals lest they be quizzed about their own ineffective record?
Oh and a leftie ex of MacShame lays into the LDs.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/15/lib-dems-women-trouble-lord-rennard
(Relates to the e-reader style Kindles, not the tablets).
Mind you, I also love my iPad.....
Katharina Liebherr: "With great regret we have accepted the resignation of Mr Cortese." #saintsfc
I wouldn't like to try and sound authoritative on that question but I can say in two and a bit years of heavy Kindle use I have not yet had a situation where a book that I wanted to read electronically (text books with lots of graphics/pictures don't really work electronically) was not available nor where I thought the price charged was excessive.
I have designed and built a Kindle bed-stand which means it is possible to read in bed without poking even so much as a finger out from under the duvet to turn the page, which makes the Kindle the best bit of technology invented in my lifetime.
Perhaps the acid test ought to be, is Sir Edric's Temple (by Thaddeus White, a hilarious romp which the author sells for a pathetic amount of money) available in Kobo. If it isn't available then go for the Kindle. If it is, well, pay your money and take your pick, there probably ain't a fag paper between them.
The second best 75p I've ever spent, number 1 was when I put a fizzy sweet into a bottle of coke, and shook it for 10 mins.
He has no concept of the vast social changes that have happened in the last 30 years, because he was p8ssing in his nappies when they were happening.
Like all the greats, he was born in Sheffield, but ended up across the Pennines, living in Greater Manchester.
twitter.com/election_data/status/423495152724754433/photo/1
This map will repay very careful study.
"As Betty Bacall told me about Bogart/Sinatra/Hemingway...."
Anyway, my little sci-fi rom-com movie script is one final corporate blessing away from a pretty damned spectacular name drop. Fingers crossed for me, Peebs! More anon....
It looks appalling.
I remember getting directions off Peter Ustinov one New Year's Eve.
He didn't recognise though.
Bugger, why I'll never make a comedian ... it should have been -
I remember getting directions off Peter Ustinov one New Year's Eve.
He didn't recognise me though.
I know dozens of teachers in my ultra-marginal constituency, mostly working or retired after working in private schools, and they all loathe Michael Gove and will vote to get rid of him.
So what? Anecdotal stuff like this does not prove anything.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/01/pmqs-sketch-ed-miliband-looks-like-an-ex-leader-in-waiting/
The lib dem position on this seems to be that, even though Rennard was exonerated, women were caused distress.
That's a completely bonkers position, because it implies that the women were offended by something that was harmless and not worthy of serious sanction.
In other words, that the women had been overly sensitive.
A couple of right-wing rags have a pop at those cuddly Lib Dems over the blameless Lord Rennard:
Once again, the Liberal Democrats are having trouble with women. The party has decided not to take disciplinary action against its former chief executive, Lord Rennard, who has always denied allegations that he sexually harassed female colleagues. But the findings of Alistair Webster QC, who looked at the evidence as part of a disciplinary process, make uncomfortable reading for senior Lib Dems. To outsiders, the episode appears to confirm the impression that the party remains a boys' club, and one that doesn't know where to draw boundaries in questions relating to power and gender.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/15/lib-dems-women-trouble-lord-rennard
The Liberal Democrats were tonight accused of opting for “cowardice” over action after the party claimed it was powerless to take disciplinary proceedings against its former chief executive over allegations of sexual harassment.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liberal-democrats-in-whitewash-row-as-party-claims-it-cannot-take-action-over-sexual-allegations-against-lord-rennard-9062401.html
:please-grow-up:
The actual Lib Dem position is very probably, we think he did it but QC says not enough evidence to prove it.
The theoretical position is that the QC says that the aspect that couldn't be proven was the intent, not that distress was caused. But even if distress was unintentional an apology is still warranted.
To quote from statement:
"In my opinion, the evidence of behaviour which violated the personal space and autonomy of the complainants was broadly credible. However, it is my judgment, considering all of the evidence collected, that it is unlikely that it could be established beyond reasonable doubt that Lord Rennard had intended to act in an indecent or sexually inappropriate way. Without proof of such an intention, I do not consider that such a charge would be tenable."
It will be interesting to see if Rennard has the Whip restored in the Lords....
"This is a bit mad, the stock market was all over the place so you can "prove" a rise or decline by picking peaks, the rest of the trends like the trade deficit are long-term trends for the UK and a lot of other western countries."
Why is it mad ? The FTSE100 has NEVER returned to the level it started the new millenium at.
Meanwhile the DJIA is I think over 40% higher.
Does anyone have the corresponding performances of other leading stock markets ?
The weakness of the UK stock market will have had a material financial effect on anyone who's had personal pensions, life assurance policies etc.
As to the other trends I mentioned - perpetual trade deficit, industrial production, reduction in productivity growth, ever growing debt etc - I doubt any other leading western country has had such a combination of adverse trends over the last decade.
If anyone wants to give data for industrial production and trade balances for the G7 countries since 2000 they would be greatly received.
And the UK economy had these adverse trends at the time we have been having what, we are told, is the great economic boon of massive immigration.
So I return to my original point:
Either immigration hasn't been the great economic boon the rich and powerful keep telling us it is or some point from 2000 onwards fundamental structural damage was done to the UK economy.
(Due to the history of the Lib Dems, the way the party's structured means it's leadership is the least powerful of the 3 major parties, and with ordinary members having the most power/rights. Compare policy-making for example).
As a side note said standards and procedures are getting reviewed.
Would any senior LibDem want their daughter working with Rennard, I wonder? If not, they shouldn't ask others to.
As you say, Owen Jones stance on immigration would result in a
"You lost me at 'youre like me' " moment, to paraphrase Jerry Maguire
... not to mention gay marriage!
Most working class people I know would like to bash him up!
If @OwenJones84 is trying to reach out to UKIP voters, does that mean that lefties no longer regard us as bigots/racists/extremists?
I'd imagine they'd be delighted if Rennard did one and never came back to politics again. But they can ask, but not force. And he doesn't seem keen on leaving politics.
Secondly, I can happily pick times when the UK had outperformed, it's all a matter of choosing my start date.
If we compare to a country like Japan with little migration we have a stellar performance.
Frankly I think the economic argument about immigration seems pretty thin either way.
"Monstrously wrong" to say Rennard should issue an apology, he says.
Just like his apologists on here then.....
And this despite the immigration which we are told has been such a great economic boon.
So I'll repeat, yet again, either immigration hasn't been the greater economic boon the rich and powerful keep telling us it is or some point from 2000 onwards fundamental structural damage was done to the UK economy.
What a ridiculous comparison between the USA and the UK. They're clearly very different cases. The most obvious one is that the US has huge amounts of land and is very thinly populated, meaning that importing large numbers of people won't drive up land prices and prevent people getting on the housing ladder. The second issue is that the United States has traditionally had a far smaller welfare state, meaning it's healthcare system won't struggle to cope with the influx. Thirdly, virtually all immigration to the US has been European and Hispanic immigrants, who quickly integrate and have very high rates of intermarriage with the rest of the population. This prevents ethnically-based segregation, which ramps up social tension. In addition, the immigrants to the US tend to have a similar level of religiosity, meaning there isn't the scale of culture clash you get when you import people from places like Africa, the Middle East and central Asia.
Most migration is to highly crowded areas in cities, not to the prairies.
Region 2012
Americas 407,172
Asia 429,599
Africa 107,241
Europe 81,671
All Immigrants 1,031,631
I do not think that the facts fit your argument very well
I've just discovered the tradingeconomics website so I'll have a look for some details.
My logic is that I wish to know why if immigration is said to be such a great economic boon the UK economy has performed so badly during the last decade.
When you mentioned "the turn of the century", I understood you were referencing 1900, which is why I said Europeans and Hispanic Americans. If you were meaning 2000, then I would just restrict that to Hispanic Americans, who outnumber the African immigrants five to one.
You also clearly don't know the US landscape very well. Immigration to the US happens significantly in rural areas:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/03/10/us/20090310-immigration-explorer.html
Even when it is to cities, they may be densely population, but they are not short of land, except for a few individual cases. LA, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Las Vegas, Phoenix all expand easily. Even in constrained cities like San Francisco, the greater urban area expands outwoods: the Hispanics move to Oakland rather than the city itself.