Stories of Renard the Fox. Also called Reynard the Fox:
There are a few similarities between all versions. Renard is a noble in the animal court, and he lives in a structure sometimes referred to as a den, and sometimes as a castle known as Malperdy with his wife, Hermeline, and his three sons, who are known by various names in different episodes. He is a trickster, first and foremost, and his relationship with his uncle, Isengrim the wolf, is at the core of the story. Though once partners in crime, they have since become bitter rivals when Renard repeatedly fooled the less savvy Isengrim.
On topic, voters are getting smarter and better able to see through the politicians' bullshit. Eventually this will hit a tipping point where the voters are so smart that it ceases to be in the politicians' interests to bullshit them all the time, and after a while their reputations will recover.
Didn't Osborne and Cameron field-test this with their 'age of austerity' strapline in 2009? The Conservative poll-leads swiftly decline, IIRC. Also, one of the key conclusions of "The Worm" - the device they used to measure focus group reaction to the leaders debates in 2010 - was that the leaders dipped sharply whenever they talked about cuts, mainly Cameron.
Of course, that might be because voters don't like Tories talking about (still less doing) cuts. But as Sean Fear has pointed out before, politicians wouldn't lie if telling the truth got them votes.
I wouldn't use the debate worm as indication of anything. It's a dangerous (in the electoral sense) piece of technology that can all too easily be gamed.
How many people were used to create the worm in 2010, and how were they chosen?
I agree it's a crude measure. However, it did give some indication of how difficult messages were going down during the leaders debates, although I seem to recall that even then both Brown and Cameron tip-toe'd around the really big issue of cutting the deficit. For this very reason.
Voters do like honesty, as long as its about politicians talking about their own failings and not about hard unavoidable political choices that will affect them.
YouGov did a 'worm' on one of Mr Farage's speeches. He got his best response when slating Cameron/Clegg/Miliband as clueless.
The same posters who were outraged at allegations against the subsequently convicted Mr Huhne seem to be similarly outraged today.
and those posters who were outraged and presumed guilt of Mr Huhne and Lord Rennard have not expressed a single word abour Mr Evans .
In the latter case, I'm not sure there was much time between the allegations becoming public and his arrest, after which it becomes difficult to comment.
In the case of Rennard, I don;t think he was arrested.
Oh, and Huhne was guilty. Utterly, totally, and hilariously guilty.
Surely an apology by Rennard have been a kind of admission of guilt....??
I'm sure five minutes of careful crafting could have created a 'deeply regret if my naturally friendly nature was perceived as anything else and apologise to any who felt that way...' or similar. But unlike the QC, Clegg or Farron, Rennard does not appear to think any apology is required.......
It is a bit confusing. Rennard has been sort of cleared, but his party leaders and female members are demanding he apologises about his unacceptable behaviour towards women.
You can assume nothing from it. It can all too easily lead opinion, rather than show it.
We are getting stuck on discussing the merits/dismerits of 'the worm', which is not the point I was trying to make. I agree it can be manipulated and be used to lead opinion. My point was that viewers who did use it in real-time whilst watching the debates (and presumably had no time to discuss the issues and their opinions of them with other participants in their 'focus groups' and so had no opportunity to be lead by them) did not react well to difficult truths. The group may well not have been fully 'representative' of undecided voters. However, I believe both IPSOS-Mori and Comres were involved in selecting the sample, for the BBC and ITV respectively, and I certainly wouldn't dismiss its findings entirely.
People start with the reality they want to believe in and filter the evidence accordingly. They cherry pick the facts they like and ignore or dismiss the ones they don't. Sometimes that depends on who's saying it and how they feel about them. Sometimes people arrive at the truth. Often they come to it late. We all do it from time to time.
But politicians have elections to win. I'm not sure you can entirely blame them for adopting strategies that maximise their votes.
The same posters who were outraged at allegations against the subsequently convicted Mr Huhne seem to be similarly outraged today.
and those posters who were outraged and presumed guilt of Mr Huhne and Lord Rennard have not expressed a single word abour Mr Evans .
We have not heard from the accusers of Evans. We have heard from those accusers of Rennard. However the sentence given was that Rennard should apologise, a weak sentence but one to be expected of the Lib Dems. However Rennard has not accepted the sentence and instead is using a pick and mix approach to the judgement accepting one part and ignoring other aspects.
It really is now up to the party's members to do the right thing and remove the LD whip in the Lords and shun Rennard at every opportunity. Only a period in purgatory may bring the man to his senses. But what will you do Mr Senior if you meet Rennard?
We are getting stuck on discussing the merits/dismerits of 'the worm', which is not the point I was trying to make. I agree it can be manipulated and be used to lead opinion. My point was that viewers who did use it in real-time whilst watching the debates (and presumably had no time to discuss the issues and their opinions of them with other participants in their 'focus groups' and so had no opportunity to be lead by them) did not react well to difficult truths. The group may well not have been fully 'representative' of undecided voters. However, I believe both IPSOS-Mori and Comres were involved in selecting the sample, for the BBC and ITV respectively, and I certainly wouldn't dismiss its findings entirely.
People start with the reality they want to believe in and filter the evidence accordingly. They cherry pick the facts they like and ignore or dismiss the ones they don't. Sometimes that depends on who's saying it and how they feel about them. Sometimes people arrive at the truth. Often they come to it late. We all do it from time to time.
But politicians have elections to win. I'm not sure you can entirely blame them for adopting strategies that maximise their votes.
Fair enough. However I wouldn't be so sure that anything useful can be ascertained from the worm on those nights. It would be better if (and I assume this was not the case) the responders could not see the worm on their screens, preventing positive or negative feedback. Likewise, they should have no wider Internet access during the debate.
I fundamentally disagree with the worm, and think it - if not the debates - should be scrapped. Sadly I'm swimming against the tide on both of these.
You're utterly right about the cherry-picking of evidence to suit our biases - we all do it all the time. Indeed, there was a recent thread along those sorts of lines. We all like to be proved right, and often tend to disparage evidence that seems to prove us wrong.
Like some evidence I saw the other day that Miliband might just make a good PM ... ;-)
We are getting stuck on discussing the merits/dismerits of 'the worm', which is not the point I was trying to make. I agree it can be manipulated and be used to lead opinion. My point was that viewers who did use it in real-time whilst watching the debates (and presumably had no time to discuss the issues and their opinions of them with other participants in their 'focus groups' and so had no opportunity to be lead by them) did not react well to difficult truths. The group may well not have been fully 'representative' of undecided voters. However, I believe both IPSOS-Mori and Comres were involved in selecting the sample, for the BBC and ITV respectively, and I certainly wouldn't dismiss its findings entirely.
People start with the reality they want to believe in and filter the evidence accordingly. They cherry pick the facts they like and ignore or dismiss the ones they don't. Sometimes that depends on who's saying it and how they feel about them. Sometimes people arrive at the truth. Often they come to it late. We all do it from time to time.
But politicians have elections to win. I'm not sure you can entirely blame them for adopting strategies that maximise their votes.
Fair enough. However I wouldn't be so sure that anything useful can be ascertained from the worm on those nights. It would be better if (and I assume this was not the case) the responders could not see the worm on their screens, preventing positive or negative feedback. Likewise, they should have no wider Internet access during the debate.
I fundamentally disagree with the worm, and think it - if not the debates - should be scrapped. Sadly I'm swimming against the tide on both of these.
You're utterly right about the cherry-picking of evidence to suit our biases - we all do it all the time. Indeed, there was a recent thread along those sorts of lines. We all like to be proved right, and often tend to disparage evidence that seems to prove us wrong.
Like some evidence I saw the other day that Miliband might just make a good PM ... ;-)
That evidence, of course, is completely untrue ;-)
The same posters who were outraged at allegations against the subsequently convicted Mr Huhne seem to be similarly outraged today.
and those posters who were outraged and presumed guilt of Mr Huhne and Lord Rennard have not expressed a single word abour Mr Evans .
We have not heard from the accusers of Evans. We have heard from those accusers of Rennard. However the sentence given was that Rennard should apologise, a weak sentence but one to be expected of the Lib Dems. However Rennard has not accepted the sentence and instead is using a pick and mix approach to the judgement accepting one part and ignoring other aspects.
It really is now up to the party's members to do the right thing and remove the LD whip in the Lords and shun Rennard at every opportunity. Only a period in purgatory may bring the man to his senses. But what will you do Mr Senior if you meet Rennard?
How do you sentence someone without enough evidence for a guilty verdict? The decision having been taken by an independent QC.
Party leaders not as important because at the moment we don't have very good leaders of the parties. I don't think anyone who only takes a mild interest in politics, would look on with admiration of Cameron, Clegg or Miliband. The parties seemed to have skipped a generation when selecting leaders.
Miliband "now has the air of a bungling hedgie who shorted the UK and is about to be engulfed by bankruptcy as the markets demand their due. Today he looks exactly like he did last summer: an ex-leader-in-waiting."
Is the Caribbean regarded as a bit outdated by today's super-rich travellers? Maybe it's gone a bit downmarket these days thanks to cheap package holidays. The last well-known person who seemed to go there a lot was Michael Winner. I don't remember SeanT ever reporting from there, for example.
Kudos to the BBC for giving it the coverage it deserves. Hopefully this will raise awareness and prevent these things going unreported for so long in future.
“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.” ― Mikhail Gorbachev
''How do you sentence someone without enough evidence for a guilty verdict? ''
You can't. So why have the lib dem big wigs decided to do just that by demanding an apology? You don;t ask an innocent man to apologize.
Asking for an apology is not a sentence, and it is obviously possible to say that his behaviour is worthy of an apology, but they can't prove he brought the party into disrepute.
''How do you sentence someone without enough evidence for a guilty verdict? ''
You can't. So why have the lib dem big wigs decided to do just that by demanding an apology? You don;t ask an innocent man to apologize.
He doesn't have to apologise for breaking the law (or party rules). He could say something like "I'm deeply sorry if any actions I took caused anyone I worked with to feel unsafe or uncomfortable, and I will endeavour to ensure I avoid any behaviour which could be similarly misinterpreted in the future. I am sorry to the party for the distraction I caused from all the work they are doing for this country, and I am sorry first and foremost to my former colleagues who felt victimised by my actions."
Why should an innocent man need to apologise for anything?
If I were the Mods I'd be watching closely the comments posted here....
It comes down to the stupid rules the Lib Dems have set themselves. According to the BBC article,
But its chair, Alistair Webster QC, said it was "unlikely that it could be established beyond reasonable doubt" - as required by the party's disciplinary procedures - "that Lord Rennard had intended to act in an indecent or sexually inappropriate way"
Any employer who knows their stuff will tell you that it doesn't matter if a criminal investigation into someone is dropped (or, for that matter, if it proceeds and finds the individual not guilty), the employee can still have action taken against them for that incident - assuming it's relevant - up to and including dismissal. The simple reason is the different burden of proof.
As here, it's obvious that the QC thinks that the case is provable on the balance of probabilities: "allegations of impropriety made by female activists concluded that the evidence against the peer was "broadly credible".". In other words, we think they were telling the truth, therefore, we think he has something to apologise for but we can't take disciplinary action against him because we want the matter proven to a higher standard before we do. Hence the weasel words about asking for an apology. It's not so much that the Lib Dems have chosen to sit on the fence; they've been impaled upon it by their own rules.
Now, you could argue that because the Lib Dems have set that higher standard, they should abide by it and treat Rennard the same as any other member. The political problem is that such an approach is untenable given the QC's comments.
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
We may all believe that Bloggs has committed a criminal offence and also find, empanelled as jurors, that the Crown has not proved its case against Bloggs. Bloggs then claims to be "a wholly innocent man". The Scots have a "not proven" verdict - shouldn't the rest of us, too?
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
I'm worried about what he might reveal about a red shoed guy from Manchester.
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
I'm worried about what he might reveal about a red shoed guy from Manchester.
I've frequented the same watering holes as him.
As long as you didnt frequent the same dealers you should be fine.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
I predict Ed Miliband will make a big speech about it which will have the same measurable effect on his chances of getting to Downing Street as all his other big speeches...
I'm pleased to see that Osborne has been reading my PB posts attentively:
Cast-iron legal protections for the City of London will lie at the heart of David Cameron's EU reform plans, George Osborne has said, as he issued a strong warning that the UK would leave the bloc unless wide-ranging changes were agreed. ... Osborne said that from 2016 the euro group would have enough votes under the Lisbon treaty to pass financial services legislation that would apply across the whole EU, including the 10 member states outside the single currency.
Warning that the euro group had already started to discuss EU directives in private, the chancellor said: "If we cannot protect the collective interests of non-eurozone member states then they will have to choose between joining the euro, which the UK will not do, or leaving the EU."
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
I'm worried about what he might reveal about a red shoed guy from Manchester.
I've frequented the same watering holes as him.
As long as you didnt frequent the same dealers you should be fine.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
I predict Ed Miliband will make a big speech about it which will have the same measurable effect on his chances of getting to Downing Street as all his other big speeches...
I'd offer a bet on a related proposition but I want to retain the will to live rather than spend weeks watching you wriggle out of it.
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
YAWN - still barking up this pitiful tree ?
Ah, it doesnt count when Tories do it?
Are you claiming that ministers knew about the massive hole in the Coop bank's capital yet still pushed them to buy the branches ?
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
I'm worried about what he might reveal about a red shoed guy from Manchester.
I've frequented the same watering holes as him.
As long as you didnt frequent the same dealers you should be fine.
I think I blocked him on Grindr.
I think the guy needs money quickly. I mean he's already replaced his crystal meth habit with a ketamine one. Times must be tough.
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
YAWN - still barking up this pitiful tree ?
Ah, it doesnt count when Tories do it?
Are you claiming that ministers knew about the massive hole in the Coop bank's capital yet still pushed them to buy the branches ?
I'm not claiming that ministers eat babies for breakfast either.
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
I'm worried about what he might reveal about a red shoed guy from Manchester.
I've frequented the same watering holes as him.
As long as you didnt frequent the same dealers you should be fine.
I think I blocked him on Grindr.
I think the guy needs money quickly. I mean he's already replaced his crystal meth habit with a ketamine one. Times must be tough.
He can't be that hard up (fnarr) if he can hire 400 quid a night rent boys.
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
YAWN - still barking up this pitiful tree ?
Ah, it doesnt count when Tories do it?
Are you claiming that ministers knew about the massive hole in the Coop bank's capital yet still pushed them to buy the branches ?
I'm not claiming that ministers eat babies for breakfast either.
Not entirely sure what your scary big claim is then : "Minister tries hard to get bank back into private ownership shocker ! "
Hardly up there with soft loans, large donations and political appointments is it ? Like attacking Jimmy Saville for having slow marathon times...
Those are pretty strong words from Osborne, if the EU was to remain obdurate.
As I told the French ambassador at a reception at his official residence (how's that for name dropping?), "If Britain has to choose between the EU and the City, it will choose the City".
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
YAWN - still barking up this pitiful tree ?
Ah, it doesnt count when Tories do it?
Are you claiming that ministers knew about the massive hole in the Coop bank's capital yet still pushed them to buy the branches ?
I'm not claiming that ministers eat babies for breakfast either.
Not entirely sure what your scary big claim is then
I dont think my post could have been much clearer.
I have a friend who works in the IT department of a bank, he's just informed me, no one who works in the IT department for a bank, will ever vote for Ed Miliband,
Mr Miliband will also signal that Labour would consider forcing banks to give their customers “fully portable accounts” with a permanent account number, allowing them to switch to rival institutions in a matter of hours. The industry opposes such a move because it says it would involve large extra costs to adapt IT systems.
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
Isn't that a teeny bit unfair? The government were faced with a diktat that Lloyds had to sell some of its branches. They searched for a buyer, and the Co-op were keen. Are you suggesting NBNK were, from what was known at the time, a better alternative?
There was a deadline that was rapidly approaching; a deal had to occur before the end of 2013. It's obviously to the advantage of everyone to get the deal done. It wasn't an easy task, and it's easy to see why ministers got involved.
It's hardly the government's fault that the Co-op was in such a hidden mess. It's not as if the Tory ministers over-extended the bank - it already was overextended thanks to their previous decisions, and that had not come to light.
Any minister encouraging the deal was doing what was right for the country. Only with hindsight can we say it was wrong. But if that was the case, everyone - the Co-op, Lloyds, the government, Labour, Unite - were wrong. They all supported the deal.
(This is as I remember it - I daresay you or others will correct me if I'm wrong...)
I have a friend who works in the IT department of a bank, he's just informed me, no one who works in the IT department for a bank, will ever vote for Ed Miliband,
Mr Miliband will also signal that Labour would consider forcing banks to give their customers “fully portable accounts” with a permanent account number, allowing them to switch to rival institutions in a matter of hours. The industry opposes such a move because it says it would involve large extra costs to adapt IT systems.
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
Isn't that a teeny bit unfair?
What was unfair? Referring to what appears to be on record as having happened?
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
YAWN - still barking up this pitiful tree ?
Ah, it doesnt count when Tories do it?
Are you claiming that ministers knew about the massive hole in the Coop bank's capital yet still pushed them to buy the branches ?
I'm not claiming that ministers eat babies for breakfast either.
Not entirely sure what your scary big claim is then
I dont think my post could have been much clearer.
"Shame of minister who made every effort to get deal done."
There is a Pulitzer in there for someone I'm sure.
He's a bit of a tit to be sure, but how is that letter patronising? Isn't he just pointing out the disconnect between what ex-Labour UKIP voters might want and what the party's leadership advocates?
He's a bit of a tit to be sure, but how is that letter patronising? Isn't he just pointing out the disconnect between what ex-Labour UKIP voters might want and what the party's leadership advocates?
6 lines before he mentions "class" - what a divot.
He's a bit of a tit to be sure, but how is that letter patronising? Isn't he just pointing out the disconnect between what ex-Labour UKIP voters might want and what the party's leadership advocates?
6 lines before he mentions "class" - what a divot.
Well he got this part right
what, that gobby little leftie who looks like he's walked off the set of Home Alone 1, shouldn't he be doing his paper round?
He's a bit of a tit to be sure, but how is that letter patronising? Isn't he just pointing out the disconnect between what ex-Labour UKIP voters might want and what the party's leadership advocates?
6 lines before he mentions "class" - what a divot.
We do need more working class MPs. It's a point made on here countless times by people with a wide variety of political views.
He's noticed that voters that Labour should be picking up are going elsewhere. But like Labour's leaders, he's tone deaf to how to appeal to those voters because he doesn't really understand them at all.
I have a friend who works in the IT department of a bank, he's just informed me, no one who works in the IT department for a bank, will ever vote for Ed Miliband,
Mr Miliband will also signal that Labour would consider forcing banks to give their customers “fully portable accounts” with a permanent account number, allowing them to switch to rival institutions in a matter of hours. The industry opposes such a move because it says it would involve large extra costs to adapt IT systems.
How is he even beginning to propose that that works - that all account numbers are increased in length by at least 6 digits, or that Sort Codes are transferable as well and no longer actually represent a specific bank, or that we all have 2 account numbers with a big cross-matrix database that the government will look after (Oh Goody...)?
I have a friend who works in the IT department of a bank, he's just informed me, no one who works in the IT department for a bank, will ever vote for Ed Miliband,
Mr Miliband will also signal that Labour would consider forcing banks to give their customers “fully portable accounts” with a permanent account number, allowing them to switch to rival institutions in a matter of hours. The industry opposes such a move because it says it would involve large extra costs to adapt IT systems.
I can't read the article, but it sounds like a good idea on the face of it. But as ever, the devil will be in the details. For instance, will there be a charge for swapping?
Surely your IT friend would be in favour - it'll just mean more work.
Besides, as RBS's IT woes shows, overhauling the IT systems may not be a bad idea anyway.
Those are pretty strong words from Osborne, if the EU was to remain obdurate.
As I told the French ambassador at a reception at his official residence (how's that for name dropping?), "If Britain has to choose between the EU and the City, it will choose the City".
You have some way to go to beat my best ever name drop:
"As I was saying to Helmut Schmidt only the other day at Davos..."
He's noticed that voters that Labour should be picking up are going elsewhere. But like Labour's leaders, he's tone deaf to how to appeal to those voters because he doesn't really understand them at all.
He's a bit of a tit to be sure, but how is that letter patronising? Isn't he just pointing out the disconnect between what ex-Labour UKIP voters might want and what the party's leadership advocates?
6 lines before he mentions "class" - what a divot.
We do need more working class MPs. It's a point made on here countless times by people with a wide variety of political views.
We need people to stop being obsessed with "class"...
He's a bit of a tit to be sure, but how is that letter patronising? Isn't he just pointing out the disconnect between what ex-Labour UKIP voters might want and what the party's leadership advocates?
6 lines before he mentions "class" - what a divot.
We do need more working class MPs. It's a point made on here countless times by people with a wide variety of political views.
We need people to stop being obsessed with "class"...
I imagine they will be when it does not matter anymore. That'll be long after I have departed this mortal coil.
Alternatively, maybe Ed thinks the banks should use some of their multi-billion pound profits each year to upgrade their IT systems.
They do spend a fortune on IT. But there have lots of legacy systems, and all kinds of complicated standards and heavy regulation to comply with. It's simply not as easy as a lot of people seem to think.
He's noticed that voters that Labour should be picking up are going elsewhere. But like Labour's leaders, he's tone deaf to how to appeal to those voters because he doesn't really understand them at all.
How is he even beginning to propose that that works - that all account numbers are increased in length by at least 6 digits, or that Sort Codes are transferable as well and no longer actually represent a specific bank, or that we all have 2 account numbers with a big cross-matrix database that the government will look after (Oh Goody...)?
And of course that will all magically work with international standards and systems.
I have a friend who works in the IT department of a bank, he's just informed me, no one who works in the IT department for a bank, will ever vote for Ed Miliband,
Mr Miliband will also signal that Labour would consider forcing banks to give their customers “fully portable accounts” with a permanent account number, allowing them to switch to rival institutions in a matter of hours. The industry opposes such a move because it says it would involve large extra costs to adapt IT systems.
How is he even beginning to propose that that works - that all account numbers are increased in length by at least 6 digits, or that Sort Codes are transferable as well and no longer actually represent a specific bank, or that we all have 2 account numbers with a big cross-matrix database that the government will look after (Oh Goody...)?
Add the current sort code to the end of the bank A/C number string ?
I have a friend who works in the IT department of a bank, he's just informed me, no one who works in the IT department for a bank, will ever vote for Ed Miliband,
Mr Miliband will also signal that Labour would consider forcing banks to give their customers “fully portable accounts” with a permanent account number, allowing them to switch to rival institutions in a matter of hours. The industry opposes such a move because it says it would involve large extra costs to adapt IT systems.
I can't read the article, but it sounds like a good idea on the face of it. But as ever, the devil will be in the details. For instance, will there be a charge for swapping?
Surely your IT friend would be in favour - it'll just mean more work.
Besides, as RBS's IT woes shows, overhauling the IT systems may not be a bad idea anyway.
He worked on a project to integrate one bank's system into another bank's system, and aged 40 years in the attempt.
The problem with it is, the sort code issue, and one bank uses 0 as the starting number for sort codes, and another bank's system can't deal with that.
Those are pretty strong words from Osborne, if the EU was to remain obdurate.
As I told the French ambassador at a reception at his official residence (how's that for name dropping?), "If Britain has to choose between the EU and the City, it will choose the City".
You have some way to go to beat my best ever name drop:
"As I was saying to Helmut Schmidt only the other day at Davos..."
Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II once told me, she hates name droppers.
He's a bit of a tit to be sure, but how is that letter patronising? Isn't he just pointing out the disconnect between what ex-Labour UKIP voters might want and what the party's leadership advocates?
6 lines before he mentions "class" - what a divot.
We do need more working class MPs. It's a point made on here countless times by people with a wide variety of political views.
Those are pretty strong words from Osborne, if the EU was to remain obdurate.
As I told the French ambassador at a reception at his official residence (how's that for name dropping?), "If Britain has to choose between the EU and the City, it will choose the City".
You have some way to go to beat my best ever name drop:
"As I was saying to Helmut Schmidt only the other day at Davos..."
Mine would be " I've just had a word with the bloke who painted Paula Radcliffe's house"
We've had a cupcake fad, a macaroon fad, and doubtless several others that utterly passed me by. But now, ladies and gentlemen, the artisans or San Francisco, that Mecca for the cool and the hip, have a new craze.
Those are pretty strong words from Osborne, if the EU was to remain obdurate.
As I told the French ambassador at a reception at his official residence (how's that for name dropping?), "If Britain has to choose between the EU and the City, it will choose the City".
You have some way to go to beat my best ever name drop:
"As I was saying to Helmut Schmidt only the other day at Davos..."
As I was saying to George Bush while chatting with Tony Blair...
I have a friend who works in the IT department of a bank, he's just informed me, no one who works in the IT department for a bank, will ever vote for Ed Miliband,
Mr Miliband will also signal that Labour would consider forcing banks to give their customers “fully portable accounts” with a permanent account number, allowing them to switch to rival institutions in a matter of hours. The industry opposes such a move because it says it would involve large extra costs to adapt IT systems.
I can't read the article, but it sounds like a good idea on the face of it. But as ever, the devil will be in the details. For instance, will there be a charge for swapping?
Surely your IT friend would be in favour - it'll just mean more work.
Besides, as RBS's IT woes shows, overhauling the IT systems may not be a bad idea anyway.
He worked on a project to integrate one bank's system into another bank's system, and aged 40 years in the attempt.
The problem with it is, the sort code issue, and one bank uses 0 as the starting number for sort codes, and another bank's system can't deal with that.
The systems are shit then and probably need an overhaul.
RBS would be completely ****ed. Their systems can't cope right now
To be fair I don't think many of the other banks would cope either. It takes banks years to introduce even quite modest changes.
I'm not getting the feeling that Ed's thought his ideas through.
Alternatively, maybe Ed thinks the banks should use some of their multi-billion pound profits each year to upgrade their IT systems.
They could do that - and it might even be a very good idea. But let's hope that they don't then get berated by the same politicians for not lending that money to SMEs and home buyers and the like. You can't spend the same money twice.
Alternatively, maybe Ed thinks the banks should use some of their multi-billion pound profits each year to upgrade their IT systems.
They do spend a fortune on IT. But there have lots of legacy systems, and all kinds of complicated standards and heavy regulation to comply with. It's simply not as easy as a lot of people seem to think.
It is quite extraordinarily difficult. My company has been in preliminary discussions with one of the very big banks about modernising their core systems, much of which are still based on hand-written mainframe assembler code dating back to the 1960s. Even just understanding what the systems actually do is fiendishly complex.
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
Isn't that a teeny bit unfair?
What was unfair? Referring to what appears to be on record as having happened?
It was unfair as they had no way of knowing it was overextended. I thought you'd be capable of grasping that.
Alternatively, maybe Ed thinks the banks should use some of their multi-billion pound profits each year to upgrade their IT systems.
They do spend a fortune on IT. But there have lots of legacy systems, and all kinds of complicated standards and heavy regulation to comply with. It's simply not as easy as a lot of people seem to think.
That's probably true, but it doesn't sound that true (or at least, it sounds like the businesses could just be sandbagging). Much like the energy price freeze I think Labour's position sounds more than plausible enough to work out.
We've had a cupcake fad, a macaroon fad, and doubtless several others that utterly passed me by. But now, ladies and gentlemen, the artisans or San Francisco, that Mecca for the cool and the hip, have a new craze.
I have a friend who works in the IT department of a bank, he's just informed me, no one who works in the IT department for a bank, will ever vote for Ed Miliband,
Mr Miliband will also signal that Labour would consider forcing banks to give their customers “fully portable accounts” with a permanent account number, allowing them to switch to rival institutions in a matter of hours. The industry opposes such a move because it says it would involve large extra costs to adapt IT systems.
How is he even beginning to propose that that works - that all account numbers are increased in length by at least 6 digits, or that Sort Codes are transferable as well and no longer actually represent a specific bank, or that we all have 2 account numbers with a big cross-matrix database that the government will look after (Oh Goody...)?
Add the current sort code to the end of the bank A/C number string ?
We've had a cupcake fad, a macaroon fad, and doubtless several others that utterly passed me by. But now, ladies and gentlemen, the artisans or San Francisco, that Mecca for the cool and the hip, have a new craze.
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
Isn't that a teeny bit unfair?
What was unfair? Referring to what appears to be on record as having happened?
It was unfair as they had no way of knowing it was overextended. I thought you'd be capable of grasping that.
"I'm sure the hackers of this world, would love a system where all the banks in the UK used the same IT system to manage bank accounts and you had a permanent account number you could switch seamlessly between banks within hours"
It is quite extraordinarily difficult. My company has been in preliminary discussions with one of the very big banks about modernising their core systems, much of which are still based on hand-written mainframe assembler code dating back to the 1960s. Even just understanding what the systems actually do is fiendishly complex.
One of the 'new' high street banks that Ed seems so keen to encourage recently entered a long term contract to maintain support for their core mainframe which has been out of production for years
@PaulFlowersRvd: Im sure certain people in the public eye, Will be very shocked and nervous to learn of me writing my book in which im going to reveal ALL.
What will he have to say about pressure from Tory ministers to over-extend the bank he was chairman of even further?!
Isn't that a teeny bit unfair?
What was unfair? Referring to what appears to be on record as having happened?
It was unfair as they had no way of knowing it was overextended. I thought you'd be capable of grasping that.
So it's unfair to even mention it?! Sheesh!
You're perfectly free to mention it. Just as we're free to point out that you're an ass for mentioning it without the context.
Yet again. You also don't mention that everyone else was in favour of the deal.
It's like a newspaper headline proclaiming "man walks past drowning woman," without mentioning the fact the man had no way of knowing she was drowning, and plenty of other people walked past as well.
He's just pointed out another problem, sort codes for a variety of reasons are fixed at a bank/branch level.
If we were to have a uniform account system, that means, there would be only 99,999,999 account numbers available.
Population of this country, 60 odd million, add in those with saving accounts and business accounts, we'd run out of account numbers before we even started.
I have a friend who works in the IT department of a bank, he's just informed me, no one who works in the IT department for a bank, will ever vote for Ed Miliband,
Mr Miliband will also signal that Labour would consider forcing banks to give their customers “fully portable accounts” with a permanent account number, allowing them to switch to rival institutions in a matter of hours. The industry opposes such a move because it says it would involve large extra costs to adapt IT systems.
How is he even beginning to propose that that works - that all account numbers are increased in length by at least 6 digits, or that Sort Codes are transferable as well and no longer actually represent a specific bank, or that we all have 2 account numbers with a big cross-matrix database that the government will look after (Oh Goody...)?
Add the current sort code to the end of the bank A/C number string ?
So
50-41-42 12345678
becomes
50-41-42 12345678504142
And if the person moves to bank sort 00-01-02
their new account is:
00-01-02 12345678504142 ?
Which then doesn't work internationally as the Account Number part is too long for IBAN standards, and still doesn't help domestically as either the new Sort Code is pointless, or you still need it to direct payments in which case changing bank still changes Account Numbers by virtue of the Sort Code changing.
"If Britain has to choose between the EU and the City, it will choose the City".
You realise what that means. If the UK gets diddly squat out of Europe this year the tories could be going into 2015 campaigning to take us out.
Having had their bluff called, they would in fact have little choice.
It's not a question of bluff, it's a question of an absolutely vital national interest. I think your timescale is wrong, though; this will come to a head in 2016/2017 or so. Cameron was a bit foolish in my view in not allowing himself enough time, but I suppose it will help focus minds to have a deadline.
He's noticed that voters that Labour should be picking up are going elsewhere. But like Labour's leaders, he's tone deaf to how to appeal to those voters because he doesn't really understand them at all.
How do you know that? :-)
Because Labour haven't picked up those voters.
So is he wrong to say that they support the stuff he says they do?
BORN TO RUN (INTO CHRIS CHRISTIE TRAFFIC JAM) Bruce Springsteen and Jimmy Fallon
In the day we sweat it out on the streets, stuck in traffic on the GWB They shut down the tollbooths of glory 'cause we didn't endorse Christie Sprung from cages on Highway 9, we got three lanes closed, so Jersey get your ass in line Whoa, maybe this Bridgegate was just payback, it's a bitchslap to the state democrats We gotta get out but we can't. We're stuck in Gov. Chris Christie's Fort Lee, N.J. traffic jam.
Governor, let me in, I wanna be your friend, there'll be no partisan divisions Let me wrap my legs 'round your mighty rims and relieve your stressful condition You've got Wall Street masters stuck cheek-to-cheek with blue collar truckers And man, I really gotta take a leak But I can't. I'm stuck in Gov. Chris Christie's Fort Lee, N.J. traffic jam
Highways jammed with pissed off drivers with no place left to go And the press conference went on and on, it was longer than one of my own damn shows Someday, governor, I don't know when, this will all end, but till then you're killing the working man Who's stuck in the Gov. Chris Christie Fort Lee, N.J. traffic jam
Whoa, oh oh oh I gotta take a leak Whoa, oh oh oh I really gotta take a leak Whoa, oh oh oh Down in Jerseyland
What is the problem which portable account numbers are meant to solve? Then decide whether:- (a) this is the most important problem for banks to solve right now; (b) this is the answer; or (c) whether there is another simpler. more cost effective solution to that problem.
Banks' IT departments and their Boards are doing this all the time.
Before trying to solve banks' IT systems perhaps Milliband might apply his mind to how to make sure Government IT projects don't end up being colossal wastes of money taking years and achieving nothing. After all, a government which put all the personal details of every child in the country and their parent on 2 discs and then lost them is exactly the sort of body you'd go to to get advice on IT stuff.
Comments
There are a few similarities between all versions. Renard is a noble in the animal court, and he lives in a structure sometimes referred to as a den, and sometimes as a castle known as Malperdy with his wife, Hermeline, and his three sons, who are known by various names in different episodes. He is a trickster, first and foremost, and his relationship with his uncle, Isengrim the wolf, is at the core of the story. Though once partners in crime, they have since become bitter rivals when Renard repeatedly fooled the less savvy Isengrim.
But is he also a ravisher of female foxes?
http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/09/13/dial-testing-speech-nigel-farage/
Mr Evans is innocent until proven guilty. Mr Huhne was guilty.
In the case of Rennard, I don;t think he was arrested.
Oh, and Huhne was guilty. Utterly, totally, and hilariously guilty.
Unacceptable behaviour Rennard was....er.......not found guilty of.
What a ludicrous mess.
I'm aware what it is: I keep on wittering on about how bad it is, see the links below:
http://bps-research-digest.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/live-worm-during-political-tv-debates.html
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0018154
You can assume nothing from it. It can all too easily lead opinion, rather than show it.
We are getting stuck on discussing the merits/dismerits of 'the worm', which is not the point I was trying to make. I agree it can be manipulated and be used to lead opinion. My point was that viewers who did use it in real-time whilst watching the debates (and presumably had no time to discuss the issues and their opinions of them with other participants in their 'focus groups' and so had no opportunity to be lead by them) did not react well to difficult truths. The group may well not have been fully 'representative' of undecided voters. However, I believe both IPSOS-Mori and Comres were involved in selecting the sample, for the BBC and ITV respectively, and I certainly wouldn't dismiss its findings entirely.
People start with the reality they want to believe in and filter the evidence accordingly. They cherry pick the facts they like and ignore or dismiss the ones they don't. Sometimes that depends on who's saying it and how they feel about them. Sometimes people arrive at the truth. Often they come to it late. We all do it from time to time.
But politicians have elections to win. I'm not sure you can entirely blame them for adopting strategies that maximise their votes.
It really is now up to the party's members to do the right thing and remove the LD whip in the Lords and shun Rennard at every opportunity. Only a period in purgatory may bring the man to his senses. But what will you do Mr Senior if you meet Rennard?
I fundamentally disagree with the worm, and think it - if not the debates - should be scrapped. Sadly I'm swimming against the tide on both of these.
You're utterly right about the cherry-picking of evidence to suit our biases - we all do it all the time. Indeed, there was a recent thread along those sorts of lines. We all like to be proved right, and often tend to disparage evidence that seems to prove us wrong.
Like some evidence I saw the other day that Miliband might just make a good PM ... ;-)
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/01/pmqs-sketch-ed-miliband-looks-like-an-ex-leader-in-waiting/
You can't. So why have the lib dem big wigs decided to do just that by demanding an apology? You don;t ask an innocent man to apologize.
Is the Caribbean regarded as a bit outdated by today's super-rich travellers? Maybe it's gone a bit downmarket these days thanks to cheap package holidays. The last well-known person who seemed to go there a lot was Michael Winner. I don't remember SeanT ever reporting from there, for example.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-25679982
Kudos to the BBC for giving it the coverage it deserves. Hopefully this will raise awareness and prevent these things going unreported for so long in future.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25726270
― Mikhail Gorbachev
See?
Just because he didn't do so to the degree that warrants formal disciplinary (or legal) proceedings doesn't mean he has nothing to apologise for.
That said, never has yellow been a more appropriate hue for the Lib Dems.
As here, it's obvious that the QC thinks that the case is provable on the balance of probabilities: "allegations of impropriety made by female activists concluded that the evidence against the peer was "broadly credible".". In other words, we think they were telling the truth, therefore, we think he has something to apologise for but we can't take disciplinary action against him because we want the matter proven to a higher standard before we do. Hence the weasel words about asking for an apology. It's not so much that the Lib Dems have chosen to sit on the fence; they've been impaled upon it by their own rules.
Now, you could argue that because the Lib Dems have set that higher standard, they should abide by it and treat Rennard the same as any other member. The political problem is that such an approach is untenable given the QC's comments.
Oh my, the comments, I fear it may break CiF.
Polly Toynbee should not call us nefarious. Conservatives genuinely care about the NHS
It's wrong to write off our improvements to the health service. We're committed to rooting out poor quality treatment
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/15/polly-toynbee-conservatives-care-about-nhs
Says one of the rare unmoderated comments.
"You can vote Labour; surely they won't allow the creeping privatisation of the NHS?"
Hunt must be pissing himself.
I've frequented the same watering holes as him.
Cast-iron legal protections for the City of London will lie at the heart of David Cameron's EU reform plans, George Osborne has said, as he issued a strong warning that the UK would leave the bloc unless wide-ranging changes were agreed.
...
Osborne said that from 2016 the euro group would have enough votes under the Lisbon treaty to pass financial services legislation that would apply across the whole EU, including the 10 member states outside the single currency.
Warning that the euro group had already started to discuss EU directives in private, the chancellor said: "If we cannot protect the collective interests of non-eurozone member states then they will have to choose between joining the euro, which the UK will not do, or leaving the EU."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jan/15/banks-eu-reform-plans-george-osborne
Of course it might be academic; Ed Miliband appears well set to wreck our most important industry even without EU help.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/an-open-letter-from-owen-jones-to-ukip-voters-9061968.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2538346/Former-Co-op-Bank-boss-Paul-Flowers-living-rent-free-300-000-home.html
Those are pretty strong words from Osborne, if the EU was to remain obdurate.
Hardly up there with soft loans, large donations and political appointments is it ? Like attacking Jimmy Saville for having slow marathon times...
Mr Miliband will also signal that Labour would consider forcing banks to give their customers “fully portable accounts” with a permanent account number, allowing them to switch to rival institutions in a matter of hours. The industry opposes such a move because it says it would involve large extra costs to adapt IT systems.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cf2907b8-7e02-11e3-95dd-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=published_links/rss/world_uk/feed//product&siteedition=uk#axzz2qP8wDhYG
There was a deadline that was rapidly approaching; a deal had to occur before the end of 2013. It's obviously to the advantage of everyone to get the deal done. It wasn't an easy task, and it's easy to see why ministers got involved.
It's hardly the government's fault that the Co-op was in such a hidden mess. It's not as if the Tory ministers over-extended the bank - it already was overextended thanks to their previous decisions, and that had not come to light.
Any minister encouraging the deal was doing what was right for the country. Only with hindsight can we say it was wrong. But if that was the case, everyone - the Co-op, Lloyds, the government, Labour, Unite - were wrong. They all supported the deal.
(This is as I remember it - I daresay you or others will correct me if I'm wrong...)
There is a Pulitzer in there for someone I'm sure.
I'm not getting the feeling that Ed's thought his ideas through.
what, that gobby little leftie who looks like he's walked off the set of Home Alone 1, shouldn't he be doing his paper round?
Surely your IT friend would be in favour - it'll just mean more work.
Besides, as RBS's IT woes shows, overhauling the IT systems may not be a bad idea anyway.
"As I was saying to Helmut Schmidt only the other day at Davos..."
As the song goes,
"They're sh*t and they know they are.."
LOL
So
50-41-42 12345678
becomes
50-41-42 12345678504142
And if the person moves to bank sort 00-01-02
their new account is:
00-01-02 12345678504142 ?
The problem with it is, the sort code issue, and one bank uses 0 as the starting number for sort codes, and another bank's system can't deal with that.
Mine would be " I've just had a word with the bloke who painted Paula Radcliffe's house"
Not really in your league.
We've had a cupcake fad, a macaroon fad, and doubtless several others that utterly passed me by. But now, ladies and gentlemen, the artisans or San Francisco, that Mecca for the cool and the hip, have a new craze.
Toast. No, really. Sometimes I just despair...
"I'm sure the hackers of this world, would love a system where all the banks in the UK used the same IT system to manage bank accounts and you had a permanent account number you could switch seamlessly between banks within hours"
You realise what that means. If the UK gets diddly squat out of Europe this year the tories could be going into 2015 campaigning to take us out.
Having had their bluff called, they would in fact have little choice.
Yet again. You also don't mention that everyone else was in favour of the deal.
It's like a newspaper headline proclaiming "man walks past drowning woman," without mentioning the fact the man had no way of knowing she was drowning, and plenty of other people walked past as well.
If we were to have a uniform account system, that means, there would be only 99,999,999 account numbers available.
Population of this country, 60 odd million, add in those with saving accounts and business accounts, we'd run out of account numbers before we even started.
Bruce Springsteen and Jimmy Fallon
In the day we sweat it out on the streets, stuck in traffic on the GWB
They shut down the tollbooths of glory 'cause we didn't endorse Christie
Sprung from cages on Highway 9, we got three lanes closed, so Jersey get your ass in line
Whoa, maybe this Bridgegate was just payback, it's a bitchslap to the state democrats
We gotta get out but we can't. We're stuck in Gov. Chris Christie's Fort Lee, N.J. traffic jam.
Governor, let me in, I wanna be your friend, there'll be no partisan divisions
Let me wrap my legs 'round your mighty rims and relieve your stressful condition
You've got Wall Street masters stuck cheek-to-cheek with blue collar truckers
And man, I really gotta take a leak
But I can't. I'm stuck in Gov. Chris Christie's Fort Lee, N.J. traffic jam
Highways jammed with pissed off drivers with no place left to go
And the press conference went on and on, it was longer than one of my own damn shows
Someday, governor, I don't know when, this will all end, but till then you're killing the working man
Who's stuck in the Gov. Chris Christie Fort Lee, N.J. traffic jam
Whoa, oh oh oh
I gotta take a leak
Whoa, oh oh oh
I really gotta take a leak
Whoa, oh oh oh
Down in Jerseyland
(a) this is the most important problem for banks to solve right now;
(b) this is the answer; or
(c) whether there is another simpler. more cost effective solution to that problem.
Banks' IT departments and their Boards are doing this all the time.
Before trying to solve banks' IT systems perhaps Milliband might apply his mind to how to make sure Government IT projects don't end up being colossal wastes of money taking years and achieving nothing. After all, a government which put all the personal details of every child in the country and their parent on 2 discs and then lost them is exactly the sort of body you'd go to to get advice on IT stuff.