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Starmer up sharply to become favourite in the next PM betting – politicalbetting.com

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  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Tory conference next week in Manchester. I get why Call Me Dave wanted to head to places like Manchester but why is Boris bothering? Either head for the red wall you've conquered or stay in the south where you are welcomed. Birmingham. Stoke. Teesside (where the main man Matt Vickers can feed the PM a parmo). Not Manchester.

    It is better than holding it in Brighton to be fair
    Historically there was an issue with sufficiently large conference facilities
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349
    An anomaly. London has probably the worst vax rates in the country - eg Camden is around 60%


    Yet London has roughly the fewest cases and deaths, as well

    I guess so many here have had either the vax OR the pox there is nowhere for the virus to go? Which is a positive sign


    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map/cases
  • Imperial

    > Last month the ISLE OF MAN conducted its 2021 general election for the House of Keys, the lower house of Tynwald the oldest parliament in the world, under writs issued by the Lord of Man - in this case a Woman, Her Majesty the Queen. IoMers voted to fill 24 seats, the top two from each of 12 constituencies being elected. A record number of women were elected, and four sitting ministers were defeated.

    > On October 13 the island of ST. HELENA holds general election for 12 of 15 seats on the Legislative Council; the other 3 are held ex officio, chosen by at-large plurality, with Saints entitled to casting up to a dozen votes.

    > On November 4 the FAULKLAND ISLANDS holds general election for 8 seats on the Legislative Assembly, divided between two constituencies, Stanley (5 seats) and Camp (3 seats). In both, Loyal Sheep-shaggers (and disloyal ones as well?) cast as many votes as their are seats, with the top 5 or 3 as the case may be winning election.

    They say (whomever they are) that in the 21st century, the sun seldom rises on what's left of the British Empire!
  • Evening all! Entirely off-topic, what is the best way to fly with a suit? I have found a couple of videos showing how to fold a jacket inside out and fol with the trousers into a suitcase, alternately a thin suit carrier as a carry-on sat on top of bags in the overhead bins. Never needed to fly a suit so curious if people have a tried and tested method.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,994
    Crisis? What crisis..?

    Oh...

    The government says nearly 200 military tanker personnel (100 of them drivers) will begin fuel deliveries from Monday
    https://twitter.com/iainjwatson/status/1444006361944178689
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Selebian said:

    kle4 said:

    I am frankly astonished no one has yet commented on two instances of 'reign in' not 'rein in'. What are PB pedants coming to?

    Let us hope that particular reign of error is over :wink:
    Surely rain of error
  • Imperial

    > Last month the ISLE OF MAN conducted its 2021 general election for the House of Keys, the lower house of Tynwald the oldest parliament in the world, under writs issued by the Lord of Man - in this case a Woman, Her Majesty the Queen. IoMers voted to fill 24 seats, the top two from each of 12 constituencies being elected. A record number of women were elected, and four sitting ministers were defeated.

    > On October 13 the island of ST. HELENA holds general election for 12 of 15 seats on the Legislative Council; the other 3 are held ex officio, chosen by at-large plurality, with Saints entitled to casting up to a dozen votes.

    > On November 4 the FAULKLAND ISLANDS holds general election for 8 seats on the Legislative Assembly, divided between two constituencies, Stanley (5 seats) and Camp (3 seats). In both, Loyal Sheep-shaggers (and disloyal ones as well?) cast as many votes as their are seats, with the top 5 or 3 as the case may be winning election.

    They say (whomever they are) that in the 21st century, the sun seldom rises on what's left of the British Empire!

    FALKLAND ISLANDS.
  • Evening all! Entirely off-topic, what is the best way to fly with a suit? I have found a couple of videos showing how to fold a jacket inside out and fol with the trousers into a suitcase, alternately a thin suit carrier as a carry-on sat on top of bags in the overhead bins. Never needed to fly a suit so curious if people have a tried and tested method.

    Here is advice from a seasoned traveller (on a tech nerd interview site, which is why I stumbled across it):
    https://usesthis.com/interviews/simon.wistow/
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Imperial

    > Last month the ISLE OF MAN conducted its 2021 general election for the House of Keys, the lower house of Tynwald the oldest parliament in the world, under writs issued by the Lord of Man - in this case a Woman, Her Majesty the Queen. IoMers voted to fill 24 seats, the top two from each of 12 constituencies being elected. A record number of women were elected, and four sitting ministers were defeated.

    > On October 13 the island of ST. HELENA holds general election for 12 of 15 seats on the Legislative Council; the other 3 are held ex officio, chosen by at-large plurality, with Saints entitled to casting up to a dozen votes.

    > On November 4 the FAULKLAND ISLANDS holds general election for 8 seats on the Legislative Assembly, divided between two constituencies, Stanley (5 seats) and Camp (3 seats). In both, Loyal Sheep-shaggers (and disloyal ones as well?) cast as many votes as their are seats, with the top 5 or 3 as the case may be winning election.

    They say (whomever they are) that in the 21st century, the sun seldom rises on what's left of the British Empire!

    The who whom thing really isn't difficult. Who corresponds to they, whom to them. So whoever they are, or whomever them are. Which sounds better?
  • HYUFD said:

    cbc.ca - The Conservative vote in Alberta shrank. Here's why
    The drop in support cost the Conservatives 3 additional seats in this federal election

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/conservative-vote-alberta-election-1.6194190

    . . . More than 365,000 other Albertans who voted for the Conservative Party in 2019 also parked their vote elsewhere or didn't vote at all this time.

    The Tories took a whopping 69 per cent of the vote in the province in the 2019 election. In last week's results they dropped 14 points, down to 55 per cent. . . .

    The NDP and Liberals gained 7.5 per cent and almost two per cent, respectively. The People's Party of Canada jumped five per cent. The Maverick Party, in its first election, took just over one per cent of the popular vote. . . .

    The Conservatives bled support to both sides of the political spectrum. The Liberals, NDP, PPC and Mavericks sucked up 263,000 more collective Alberta votes than in the previous election, while voter turnout fell nearly five percentage points, from 69.2 per cent to 64.5 per cent.

    "It seems funny to think that there'd be a lot of Conservative/NDP switchers in Alberta, but it seems that there probably was some movement between the Conservatives, the NDP and the Liberals," said Janet Brown of Janet Brown Opinion Research.

    She pointed out that disenchanted Conservative voters are usually more likely to stay home than change their vote, but this election was different.

    "[They] might have lost some votes on the far right to the Maverick Party or to the People's Party. I think the bigger concern for Erin O'Toole, though, is probably not the votes that went that way. It's the votes that went to centrist parties, despite his efforts to have a more centrist message."

    The drop in support only cost Conservatives three additional seats this election — they hold 30 of 34 seats in Alberta, while the Liberals and NDP each have two — but analysts say it sends a message that what once worked for the party in Alberta may not work anymore.

    He lost 0.6% nationally, the PPC were up 3% so most of his votes lost were to his right
    Of course the article is restricted to just the Wild Rose Province.

    Your point is nevertheless valid, in Alberta and elsewhere. But the point the story makes, is that votes lost by Tories to Dippers & Grits were at least as consequential to the outcome - esp re: seats won or lost - this election, and perhaps even more so in the not-so-distant future. Even as O'Toole did his semi-level best to present a moderate image & platform specifically targeted at these voters.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    FWIW:

    The latest from Britain Predicts - if an election was held tomorrow...

    CON: 331 MPs (-34)
    LAB: 230 (+28)
    SNP: 58 (+10)
    LDEM: 7 (-4)

    Most marginal constituency:
    Pudsey (Con 43.9, Lab 43.8)


    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1443993184586063876

    Probably about right, and probably a punishment for the Conservatives fitting the crime.

    A majority of about ten forces the Conservatives to keep going, but there is no way that Johnson, Sunak, Truss or any of them would have the skills to manage a micro-majority like that.

    Quite amusing, if only one could watch from another country.
    Nonsense. If major and may could do it anybody can.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,732
    MattW said:

    Energy News.

    North Sea link interconnectoy is now operational, which is 700 MW of power now, rising to 1.4 GW of hydro electricity from Norway by next March.

    Will have some impact, but not enough to significantly reduce use of gas in power stations on its own, I think. Water elec storage for the national grid by keeping Norway's lakes fuller :smile:

    https://www.euronews.com/2021/10/01/north-sea-link-world-s-longest-undersea-power-cable-linking-norway-and-uk-is-now-operation

    When wind generation in the UK will be high but energy demand low, extra renewable power will be exported from the UK to Norway and conserve water in Norway's reservoirs, according to the statement. However, when demand is high in the UK but wind generation is low, hydropower from Norway will be imported.

    Cordi O'Hara, President of National Grid Ventures, said that it is "an exciting day for National Grid and an important step as we look to diversify and decarbonise the UK's electricity supply".

    "North Sea Link is a truly remarkable feat of engineering. We had to go through mountains, fjords and across the North Sea to make this happen. But as we look forward to COP26, Noth Sea Link is also a great example of two countries working together to maximise renewable energy resources for mutual benefit," he added.



    looks like 2% of our energy already this fine October evening
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited October 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    Imperial

    > Last month the ISLE OF MAN conducted its 2021 general election for the House of Keys, the lower house of Tynwald the oldest parliament in the world, under writs issued by the Lord of Man - in this case a Woman, Her Majesty the Queen. IoMers voted to fill 24 seats, the top two from each of 12 constituencies being elected. A record number of women were elected, and four sitting ministers were defeated.

    > On October 13 the island of ST. HELENA holds general election for 12 of 15 seats on the Legislative Council; the other 3 are held ex officio, chosen by at-large plurality, with Saints entitled to casting up to a dozen votes.

    > On November 4 the FAULKLAND ISLANDS holds general election for 8 seats on the Legislative Assembly, divided between two constituencies, Stanley (5 seats) and Camp (3 seats). In both, Loyal Sheep-shaggers (and disloyal ones as well?) cast as many votes as their are seats, with the top 5 or 3 as the case may be winning election.

    They say (whomever they are) that in the 21st century, the sun seldom rises on what's left of the British Empire!

    The who whom thing really isn't difficult. Who corresponds to they, whom to them. So whoever they are, or whomever them are. Which sounds better?
    Okay, so correct to "(whomever them are)"! Are you happy now?

    EDIT - yet another example of spell-check (or is it spell-cheque? spell-czech?) leaving yet another quasi-innocent PBer in the linguistic lurch!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349
    edited October 2021
    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,853

    IshmaelZ said:

    Imperial

    > Last month the ISLE OF MAN conducted its 2021 general election for the House of Keys, the lower house of Tynwald the oldest parliament in the world, under writs issued by the Lord of Man - in this case a Woman, Her Majesty the Queen. IoMers voted to fill 24 seats, the top two from each of 12 constituencies being elected. A record number of women were elected, and four sitting ministers were defeated.

    > On October 13 the island of ST. HELENA holds general election for 12 of 15 seats on the Legislative Council; the other 3 are held ex officio, chosen by at-large plurality, with Saints entitled to casting up to a dozen votes.

    > On November 4 the FAULKLAND ISLANDS holds general election for 8 seats on the Legislative Assembly, divided between two constituencies, Stanley (5 seats) and Camp (3 seats). In both, Loyal Sheep-shaggers (and disloyal ones as well?) cast as many votes as their are seats, with the top 5 or 3 as the case may be winning election.

    They say (whomever they are) that in the 21st century, the sun seldom rises on what's left of the British Empire!

    The who whom thing really isn't difficult. Who corresponds to they, whom to them. So whoever they are, or whomever them are. Which sounds better?
    Okay, so correct to "(whomever them are)"! Are you happy now?
    Whomsoever they might be.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349
    The UoW also believes the USA will endure 1,230,000 excess "C19" deaths by the end of 2021, making this pandemic twice as bad as Spanish flu, in the US
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    edited October 2021
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    OT
    I don't think the underlying reality of Starmer's chances have changed much. I think this odds change is more of a correction to near where it should have been. I think people have been vastly overestimating the likelihood of Starmer being replaced before an election. Yes, it's still possible, but no, I don't think it'll happen.

    I think this is right - his position is more secure and this reflects that.
    Agree. SKS's chance of being next PM is calculated thus:
    There is a nearly 50% chance of the Tories coming below about 320 seats. This puts SKS as next PM (coalition almost certainly, he would need a black swan to win) unless:

    Boris was replaced as PM before this happens
    SKS was replaced before this happens
    or
    The Tories manage a coalition, and even if they do SKS still has a chance of being next PM if Boris is still in charge. (The chance of all this is tiny)

    Those three contingencies I would put as 10-15% between them. SKS has a 33-40% chance of being next PM.



    I’m not sure it is that high. I think one thing such a probability is predicated on is that we see a return to historical norms ie less controversial opposition leader comes in, some of the scared ex-Labour voters come home and that tips over a number of seats. However, there is a strong case for saying Labour’s problems are more structural and that they are less through them than the Conservatives’ equivalent, namely urban professionals. There are likely to be a number of “Labour Till I Die” voters still out there who are literally dying off. Add that to signs the Indian community is moving more Conservative and that Labour’s Muslim voters may be open to a left wing, anti-woke alternative such as Galloway, there is a decent case for saying SKS’ odds should be more like 20-25%.

    Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Conservatives increase their majority at the next GE. Not saying it’s a probability but it’s definitely a distinct possibility.
    There is definitely a chance - a good chance - that the Conservatives increase their majority at the next election.

    It's probably:

    20% inc Con majority
    55% reduced Con majority (but still majority)
    7% only Con minority possible

    Something like that...
    If you make a CON majority a 75% chance then the 40% on Betfair on that outcome is a good bet
    Yes, it's a cracking bet.
    If a Tory majority is 40%, Starmer next PM must be higher than 23%.
    Tory Majority should be easily odds on in my opinion
    5/7.
    I think what we should look for is substantial churn. With new boundaries and continuing demographic and social changes it’s not hard to see Labour losing another 40 seats in the north and midlands while advancing in the south, and Wales.

    About the only things I am confident of predicting are that (1) the SNP will be the largest party in Scotland (2) Labour will be the largest party in Wales, the Tories having blown their window of opportunity to break through and (3) the Liberal Democrats will win seats only within easy commuter distance of major university cities plus Orkney and Shetland.
    What do you think is the chance that Boris will blow the recover enough to hurt his Red Wall support?

    If everybody here is significantly worse off, he may be a goner.
    In a week when Starmer did well (the Labour Party-not so much) and there has been chaos in the supply chain, Johnson's performance has been more self-assured than it has been for a while. The war on immigrant labour is an absolute winner as is the rhetoric around big, big pay rises for English workers without a downside. An added bonus is a remarkably high number of voters believe the fuel crisis is the work of the last Labour Government. That being the case, stagflation can surely be put at the door of Gordon Brown.

    The mind boggles.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BigRich said:

    New French poll has Eric Zemmour overtaking any of the candidates for les Republicains

    Macron 25%
    Marine Le Pen 16%
    Eric Zemmour 15%
    Xavier Bertrand 14%

    The alternative LR candidates do worse:
    Valérie Pécresse 12%
    Michel Barnier 11%

    I haven't heard of Eric Zemmour, do we know much about him?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_French_Suicide
    He may end up being more Eurosceptic than Ms Le Pen, given her recent dash to the centre.
    Why is Mari tanking in the polls? People she competes with for votes getting airtime?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,200
    edited October 2021

    Evening all! Entirely off-topic, what is the best way to fly with a suit? I have found a couple of videos showing how to fold a jacket inside out and fol with the trousers into a suitcase, alternately a thin suit carrier as a carry-on sat on top of bags in the overhead bins. Never needed to fly a suit so curious if people have a tried and tested method.

    Here is advice from a seasoned traveller (on a tech nerd interview site, which is why I stumbled across it):
    https://usesthis.com/interviews/simon.wistow/
    Pack a Corby Trouser Press...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,732

    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    1h
    Both the PM and Burnham on Marr sofa this sunday from Manc. Team Keir wont like that
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349
    If 1.23 million Americans die of Covid by the end of 2021, that's 0.3% of the population

    Romania is one of the worst. 170,000 excess deaths are predicted by end 2021, out of a population of 19 million. Almost one in a hundred Romanians will die
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349
    Roughly adding it all together, the UoW expects 20-30 million deaths from Covid 19, globally, by the end of this year (with some more to come)

    A pretty nasty pandemic, probably worth finding out if it came from a lab. Or if it was engineered to be extra-virulent
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    Farooq said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    OT
    I don't think the underlying reality of Starmer's chances have changed much. I think this odds change is more of a correction to near where it should have been. I think people have been vastly overestimating the likelihood of Starmer being replaced before an election. Yes, it's still possible, but no, I don't think it'll happen.

    I think this is right - his position is more secure and this reflects that.
    Agree. SKS's chance of being next PM is calculated thus:
    There is a nearly 50% chance of the Tories coming below about 320 seats. This puts SKS as next PM (coalition almost certainly, he would need a black swan to win) unless:

    Boris was replaced as PM before this happens
    SKS was replaced before this happens
    or
    The Tories manage a coalition, and even if they do SKS still has a chance of being next PM if Boris is still in charge. (The chance of all this is tiny)

    Those three contingencies I would put as 10-15% between them. SKS has a 33-40% chance of being next PM.



    I’m not sure it is that high. I think one thing such a probability is predicated on is that we see a return to historical norms ie less controversial opposition leader comes in, some of the scared ex-Labour voters come home and that tips over a number of seats. However, there is a strong case for saying Labour’s problems are more structural and that they are less through them than the Conservatives’ equivalent, namely urban professionals. There are likely to be a number of “Labour Till I Die” voters still out there who are literally dying off. Add that to signs the Indian community is moving more Conservative and that Labour’s Muslim voters may be open to a left wing, anti-woke alternative such as Galloway, there is a decent case for saying SKS’ odds should be more like 20-25%.

    Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Conservatives increase their majority at the next GE. Not saying it’s a probability but it’s definitely a distinct possibility.
    There is definitely a chance - a good chance - that the Conservatives increase their majority at the next election.

    It's probably:

    20% inc Con majority
    55% reduced Con majority (but still majority)
    7% only Con minority possible

    Something like that...
    If you make a CON majority a 75% chance then the 40% on Betfair on that outcome is a good bet
    Yes, it's a cracking bet.
    If a Tory majority is 40%, Starmer next PM must be higher than 23%.
    Tory Majority should be easily odds on in my opinion
    5/7.
    I think what we should look for is substantial churn. With new boundaries and continuing demographic and social changes it’s not hard to see Labour losing another 40 seats in the north and midlands while advancing in the south, and Wales.

    About the only things I am confident of predicting are that (1) the SNP will be the largest party in Scotland (2) Labour will be the largest party in Wales, the Tories having blown their window of opportunity to break through and (3) the Liberal Democrats will win seats only within easy commuter distance of major university cities plus Orkney and Shetland.
    What do you think is the chance that Boris will blow the recover enough to hurt his Red Wall support?

    If everybody here is significantly worse off, he may be a goner.
    In a week were Starmer did well (the Labour Party-not so much) and there has been chaos in the supply chain, Johnson's performance has been more self-assured than it has been for a while. The war on immigrant labour is an absolute winner as is the rhetoric around big, big pay rises for English workers without a downside. An added bonus is a remarkably high number of voters believe the fuel crisis is the work of the last Labour Government. That being the case, stagflation can surely be put at the door of Gordon Brown.

    The mind boggles.
    I blame the 3rd Marquess of Salisbury for the Millennium Dome.
    No that was entirely the Blair Government, nothing to do with Michael Heseltine either. For those of us who went it really wasn't bad, but the fourth estate didn't like it, so a failure it was.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    Leon said:

    Roughly adding it all together, the UoW expects 20-30 million deaths from Covid 19, globally, by the end of this year (with some more to come)

    A pretty nasty pandemic, probably worth finding out if it came from a lab. Or if it was engineered to be extra-virulent

    Make up you mind, was it created by the Chinese or intergalactic aliens?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349

    Farooq said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    OT
    I don't think the underlying reality of Starmer's chances have changed much. I think this odds change is more of a correction to near where it should have been. I think people have been vastly overestimating the likelihood of Starmer being replaced before an election. Yes, it's still possible, but no, I don't think it'll happen.

    I think this is right - his position is more secure and this reflects that.
    Agree. SKS's chance of being next PM is calculated thus:
    There is a nearly 50% chance of the Tories coming below about 320 seats. This puts SKS as next PM (coalition almost certainly, he would need a black swan to win) unless:

    Boris was replaced as PM before this happens
    SKS was replaced before this happens
    or
    The Tories manage a coalition, and even if they do SKS still has a chance of being next PM if Boris is still in charge. (The chance of all this is tiny)

    Those three contingencies I would put as 10-15% between them. SKS has a 33-40% chance of being next PM.



    I’m not sure it is that high. I think one thing such a probability is predicated on is that we see a return to historical norms ie less controversial opposition leader comes in, some of the scared ex-Labour voters come home and that tips over a number of seats. However, there is a strong case for saying Labour’s problems are more structural and that they are less through them than the Conservatives’ equivalent, namely urban professionals. There are likely to be a number of “Labour Till I Die” voters still out there who are literally dying off. Add that to signs the Indian community is moving more Conservative and that Labour’s Muslim voters may be open to a left wing, anti-woke alternative such as Galloway, there is a decent case for saying SKS’ odds should be more like 20-25%.

    Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Conservatives increase their majority at the next GE. Not saying it’s a probability but it’s definitely a distinct possibility.
    There is definitely a chance - a good chance - that the Conservatives increase their majority at the next election.

    It's probably:

    20% inc Con majority
    55% reduced Con majority (but still majority)
    7% only Con minority possible

    Something like that...
    If you make a CON majority a 75% chance then the 40% on Betfair on that outcome is a good bet
    Yes, it's a cracking bet.
    If a Tory majority is 40%, Starmer next PM must be higher than 23%.
    Tory Majority should be easily odds on in my opinion
    5/7.
    I think what we should look for is substantial churn. With new boundaries and continuing demographic and social changes it’s not hard to see Labour losing another 40 seats in the north and midlands while advancing in the south, and Wales.

    About the only things I am confident of predicting are that (1) the SNP will be the largest party in Scotland (2) Labour will be the largest party in Wales, the Tories having blown their window of opportunity to break through and (3) the Liberal Democrats will win seats only within easy commuter distance of major university cities plus Orkney and Shetland.
    What do you think is the chance that Boris will blow the recover enough to hurt his Red Wall support?

    If everybody here is significantly worse off, he may be a goner.
    In a week were Starmer did well (the Labour Party-not so much) and there has been chaos in the supply chain, Johnson's performance has been more self-assured than it has been for a while. The war on immigrant labour is an absolute winner as is the rhetoric around big, big pay rises for English workers without a downside. An added bonus is a remarkably high number of voters believe the fuel crisis is the work of the last Labour Government. That being the case, stagflation can surely be put at the door of Gordon Brown.

    The mind boggles.
    I blame the 3rd Marquess of Salisbury for the Millennium Dome.
    No that was entirely the Blair Government, nothing to do with Michael Heseltine either. For those of us who went it really wasn't bad, but the fourth estate didn't like it, so a failure it was.
    I went, it really WAS that bad. Mortifyingly awful

    And it cost, what, £600m? For that price we could have had our own Hubble Space Telescope, giving us deep insights into the universe

    Instead we got a dirty great tent full of Woke Tat

    I understand it is now a pretty good venue, however; and the area around is revived, from what it was
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    OT
    I don't think the underlying reality of Starmer's chances have changed much. I think this odds change is more of a correction to near where it should have been. I think people have been vastly overestimating the likelihood of Starmer being replaced before an election. Yes, it's still possible, but no, I don't think it'll happen.

    I think this is right - his position is more secure and this reflects that.
    Agree. SKS's chance of being next PM is calculated thus:
    There is a nearly 50% chance of the Tories coming below about 320 seats. This puts SKS as next PM (coalition almost certainly, he would need a black swan to win) unless:

    Boris was replaced as PM before this happens
    SKS was replaced before this happens
    or
    The Tories manage a coalition, and even if they do SKS still has a chance of being next PM if Boris is still in charge. (The chance of all this is tiny)

    Those three contingencies I would put as 10-15% between them. SKS has a 33-40% chance of being next PM.



    I’m not sure it is that high. I think one thing such a probability is predicated on is that we see a return to historical norms ie less controversial opposition leader comes in, some of the scared ex-Labour voters come home and that tips over a number of seats. However, there is a strong case for saying Labour’s problems are more structural and that they are less through them than the Conservatives’ equivalent, namely urban professionals. There are likely to be a number of “Labour Till I Die” voters still out there who are literally dying off. Add that to signs the Indian community is moving more Conservative and that Labour’s Muslim voters may be open to a left wing, anti-woke alternative such as Galloway, there is a decent case for saying SKS’ odds should be more like 20-25%.

    Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Conservatives increase their majority at the next GE. Not saying it’s a probability but it’s definitely a distinct possibility.
    There is definitely a chance - a good chance - that the Conservatives increase their majority at the next election.

    It's probably:

    20% inc Con majority
    55% reduced Con majority (but still majority)
    7% only Con minority possible

    Something like that...
    If you make a CON majority a 75% chance then the 40% on Betfair on that outcome is a good bet
    Yes, it's a cracking bet.
    If a Tory majority is 40%, Starmer next PM must be higher than 23%.
    Tory Majority should be easily odds on in my opinion
    5/7.
    I think what we should look for is substantial churn. With new boundaries and continuing demographic and social changes it’s not hard to see Labour losing another 40 seats in the north and midlands while advancing in the south, and Wales.

    About the only things I am confident of predicting are that (1) the SNP will be the largest party in Scotland (2) Labour will be the largest party in Wales, the Tories having blown their window of opportunity to break through and (3) the Liberal Democrats will win seats only within easy commuter distance of major university cities plus Orkney and Shetland.
    What do you think is the chance that Boris will blow the recover enough to hurt his Red Wall support?

    If everybody here is significantly worse off, he may be a goner.
    In a week were Starmer did well (the Labour Party-not so much) and there has been chaos in the supply chain, Johnson's performance has been more self-assured than it has been for a while. The war on immigrant labour is an absolute winner as is the rhetoric around big, big pay rises for English workers without a downside. An added bonus is a remarkably high number of voters believe the fuel crisis is the work of the last Labour Government. That being the case, stagflation can surely be put at the door of Gordon Brown.

    The mind boggles.
    I blame the 3rd Marquess of Salisbury for the Millennium Dome.
    No that was entirely the Blair Government, nothing to do with Michael Heseltine either. For those of us who went it really wasn't bad, but the fourth estate didn't like it, so a failure it was.
    I went, it really WAS that bad. Mortifyingly awful

    And it cost, what, £600m? For that price we could have had our own Hubble Space Telescope, giving us deep insights into the universe

    Instead we got a dirty great tent full of Woke Tat

    I understand it is now a pretty good venue, however; and the area around is revived, from what it was
    You see, your woke tat was Remainer culture.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,200
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    OT
    I don't think the underlying reality of Starmer's chances have changed much. I think this odds change is more of a correction to near where it should have been. I think people have been vastly overestimating the likelihood of Starmer being replaced before an election. Yes, it's still possible, but no, I don't think it'll happen.

    I think this is right - his position is more secure and this reflects that.
    Agree. SKS's chance of being next PM is calculated thus:
    There is a nearly 50% chance of the Tories coming below about 320 seats. This puts SKS as next PM (coalition almost certainly, he would need a black swan to win) unless:

    Boris was replaced as PM before this happens
    SKS was replaced before this happens
    or
    The Tories manage a coalition, and even if they do SKS still has a chance of being next PM if Boris is still in charge. (The chance of all this is tiny)

    Those three contingencies I would put as 10-15% between them. SKS has a 33-40% chance of being next PM.



    I’m not sure it is that high. I think one thing such a probability is predicated on is that we see a return to historical norms ie less controversial opposition leader comes in, some of the scared ex-Labour voters come home and that tips over a number of seats. However, there is a strong case for saying Labour’s problems are more structural and that they are less through them than the Conservatives’ equivalent, namely urban professionals. There are likely to be a number of “Labour Till I Die” voters still out there who are literally dying off. Add that to signs the Indian community is moving more Conservative and that Labour’s Muslim voters may be open to a left wing, anti-woke alternative such as Galloway, there is a decent case for saying SKS’ odds should be more like 20-25%.

    Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Conservatives increase their majority at the next GE. Not saying it’s a probability but it’s definitely a distinct possibility.
    There is definitely a chance - a good chance - that the Conservatives increase their majority at the next election.

    It's probably:

    20% inc Con majority
    55% reduced Con majority (but still majority)
    7% only Con minority possible

    Something like that...
    If you make a CON majority a 75% chance then the 40% on Betfair on that outcome is a good bet
    Yes, it's a cracking bet.
    If a Tory majority is 40%, Starmer next PM must be higher than 23%.
    Tory Majority should be easily odds on in my opinion
    5/7.
    I think what we should look for is substantial churn. With new boundaries and continuing demographic and social changes it’s not hard to see Labour losing another 40 seats in the north and midlands while advancing in the south, and Wales.

    About the only things I am confident of predicting are that (1) the SNP will be the largest party in Scotland (2) Labour will be the largest party in Wales, the Tories having blown their window of opportunity to break through and (3) the Liberal Democrats will win seats only within easy commuter distance of major university cities plus Orkney and Shetland.
    What do you think is the chance that Boris will blow the recover enough to hurt his Red Wall support?

    If everybody here is significantly worse off, he may be a goner.
    In a week were Starmer did well (the Labour Party-not so much) and there has been chaos in the supply chain, Johnson's performance has been more self-assured than it has been for a while. The war on immigrant labour is an absolute winner as is the rhetoric around big, big pay rises for English workers without a downside. An added bonus is a remarkably high number of voters believe the fuel crisis is the work of the last Labour Government. That being the case, stagflation can surely be put at the door of Gordon Brown.

    The mind boggles.
    I blame the 3rd Marquess of Salisbury for the Millennium Dome.
    No that was entirely the Blair Government, nothing to do with Michael Heseltine either. For those of us who went it really wasn't bad, but the fourth estate didn't like it, so a failure it was.
    I went, it really WAS that bad. Mortifyingly awful

    And it cost, what, £600m? For that price we could have had our own Hubble Space Telescope, giving us deep insights into the universe

    Instead we got a dirty great tent full of Woke Tat

    I understand it is now a pretty good venue, however; and the area around is revived, from what it was
    I think Mandelbrot was the 'Dome Czar'.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349

    Leon said:

    Roughly adding it all together, the UoW expects 20-30 million deaths from Covid 19, globally, by the end of this year (with some more to come)

    A pretty nasty pandemic, probably worth finding out if it came from a lab. Or if it was engineered to be extra-virulent

    Make up you mind, was it created by the Chinese or intergalactic aliens?
    Actually, at the moment greater suspicion is falling on American scientists working with or at Wuhan
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    This write up of an abuse of power last year by two members of the Lancashire Police - https://barry-walsh.co.uk/lockdown-blues/ - is, though I say so myself, pretty prescient.

    It shows that even having two police officers present is not going to help - if one misbehaves and the other stands by and does nothing.
  • Channel 4 hypocrisy:

    Just seen a docu on C4 about overconsumption of sugary drinks (particularly Coke) in Mexico. Then right now it's the Bake-Off, just happened to be sponsored by... Ribena!!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    OT
    I don't think the underlying reality of Starmer's chances have changed much. I think this odds change is more of a correction to near where it should have been. I think people have been vastly overestimating the likelihood of Starmer being replaced before an election. Yes, it's still possible, but no, I don't think it'll happen.

    I think this is right - his position is more secure and this reflects that.
    Agree. SKS's chance of being next PM is calculated thus:
    There is a nearly 50% chance of the Tories coming below about 320 seats. This puts SKS as next PM (coalition almost certainly, he would need a black swan to win) unless:

    Boris was replaced as PM before this happens
    SKS was replaced before this happens
    or
    The Tories manage a coalition, and even if they do SKS still has a chance of being next PM if Boris is still in charge. (The chance of all this is tiny)

    Those three contingencies I would put as 10-15% between them. SKS has a 33-40% chance of being next PM.



    I’m not sure it is that high. I think one thing such a probability is predicated on is that we see a return to historical norms ie less controversial opposition leader comes in, some of the scared ex-Labour voters come home and that tips over a number of seats. However, there is a strong case for saying Labour’s problems are more structural and that they are less through them than the Conservatives’ equivalent, namely urban professionals. There are likely to be a number of “Labour Till I Die” voters still out there who are literally dying off. Add that to signs the Indian community is moving more Conservative and that Labour’s Muslim voters may be open to a left wing, anti-woke alternative such as Galloway, there is a decent case for saying SKS’ odds should be more like 20-25%.

    Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Conservatives increase their majority at the next GE. Not saying it’s a probability but it’s definitely a distinct possibility.
    There is definitely a chance - a good chance - that the Conservatives increase their majority at the next election.

    It's probably:

    20% inc Con majority
    55% reduced Con majority (but still majority)
    7% only Con minority possible

    Something like that...
    If you make a CON majority a 75% chance then the 40% on Betfair on that outcome is a good bet
    Yes, it's a cracking bet.
    If a Tory majority is 40%, Starmer next PM must be higher than 23%.
    Tory Majority should be easily odds on in my opinion
    5/7.
    I think what we should look for is substantial churn. With new boundaries and continuing demographic and social changes it’s not hard to see Labour losing another 40 seats in the north and midlands while advancing in the south, and Wales.

    About the only things I am confident of predicting are that (1) the SNP will be the largest party in Scotland (2) Labour will be the largest party in Wales, the Tories having blown their window of opportunity to break through and (3) the Liberal Democrats will win seats only within easy commuter distance of major university cities plus Orkney and Shetland.
    What do you think is the chance that Boris will blow the recover enough to hurt his Red Wall support?

    If everybody here is significantly worse off, he may be a goner.
    In a week were Starmer did well (the Labour Party-not so much) and there has been chaos in the supply chain, Johnson's performance has been more self-assured than it has been for a while. The war on immigrant labour is an absolute winner as is the rhetoric around big, big pay rises for English workers without a downside. An added bonus is a remarkably high number of voters believe the fuel crisis is the work of the last Labour Government. That being the case, stagflation can surely be put at the door of Gordon Brown.

    The mind boggles.
    I blame the 3rd Marquess of Salisbury for the Millennium Dome.
    No that was entirely the Blair Government, nothing to do with Michael Heseltine either. For those of us who went it really wasn't bad, but the fourth estate didn't like it, so a failure it was.
    I went, it really WAS that bad. Mortifyingly awful

    And it cost, what, £600m? For that price we could have had our own Hubble Space Telescope, giving us deep insights into the universe

    Instead we got a dirty great tent full of Woke Tat

    I understand it is now a pretty good venue, however; and the area around is revived, from what it was
    I think Mandelbrot was the 'Dome Czar'.
    I still have an unwrapped, untouched commemorative Dome tee shirt bought from the Millennium Dome souvenir shop. I went with a friend (got a free ticket!) and we both agreed the experience was so damnably shite we should buy something as a souvenir, in the hope that in decades to come these items would be valuable, as people remembered the embarrassing, world class mediocrity of it all

    Sadly, people just want to forget. So the shirt sits in my cupboards, unsold and unloved
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    OT
    I don't think the underlying reality of Starmer's chances have changed much. I think this odds change is more of a correction to near where it should have been. I think people have been vastly overestimating the likelihood of Starmer being replaced before an election. Yes, it's still possible, but no, I don't think it'll happen.

    I think this is right - his position is more secure and this reflects that.
    Agree. SKS's chance of being next PM is calculated thus:
    There is a nearly 50% chance of the Tories coming below about 320 seats. This puts SKS as next PM (coalition almost certainly, he would need a black swan to win) unless:

    Boris was replaced as PM before this happens
    SKS was replaced before this happens
    or
    The Tories manage a coalition, and even if they do SKS still has a chance of being next PM if Boris is still in charge. (The chance of all this is tiny)

    Those three contingencies I would put as 10-15% between them. SKS has a 33-40% chance of being next PM.



    I’m not sure it is that high. I think one thing such a probability is predicated on is that we see a return to historical norms ie less controversial opposition leader comes in, some of the scared ex-Labour voters come home and that tips over a number of seats. However, there is a strong case for saying Labour’s problems are more structural and that they are less through them than the Conservatives’ equivalent, namely urban professionals. There are likely to be a number of “Labour Till I Die” voters still out there who are literally dying off. Add that to signs the Indian community is moving more Conservative and that Labour’s Muslim voters may be open to a left wing, anti-woke alternative such as Galloway, there is a decent case for saying SKS’ odds should be more like 20-25%.

    Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Conservatives increase their majority at the next GE. Not saying it’s a probability but it’s definitely a distinct possibility.
    There is definitely a chance - a good chance - that the Conservatives increase their majority at the next election.

    It's probably:

    20% inc Con majority
    55% reduced Con majority (but still majority)
    7% only Con minority possible

    Something like that...
    If you make a CON majority a 75% chance then the 40% on Betfair on that outcome is a good bet
    Yes, it's a cracking bet.
    If a Tory majority is 40%, Starmer next PM must be higher than 23%.
    Tory Majority should be easily odds on in my opinion
    5/7.
    I think what we should look for is substantial churn. With new boundaries and continuing demographic and social changes it’s not hard to see Labour losing another 40 seats in the north and midlands while advancing in the south, and Wales.

    About the only things I am confident of predicting are that (1) the SNP will be the largest party in Scotland (2) Labour will be the largest party in Wales, the Tories having blown their window of opportunity to break through and (3) the Liberal Democrats will win seats only within easy commuter distance of major university cities plus Orkney and Shetland.
    What do you think is the chance that Boris will blow the recover enough to hurt his Red Wall support?

    If everybody here is significantly worse off, he may be a goner.
    In a week were Starmer did well (the Labour Party-not so much) and there has been chaos in the supply chain, Johnson's performance has been more self-assured than it has been for a while. The war on immigrant labour is an absolute winner as is the rhetoric around big, big pay rises for English workers without a downside. An added bonus is a remarkably high number of voters believe the fuel crisis is the work of the last Labour Government. That being the case, stagflation can surely be put at the door of Gordon Brown.

    The mind boggles.
    I blame the 3rd Marquess of Salisbury for the Millennium Dome.
    No that was entirely the Blair Government, nothing to do with Michael Heseltine either. For those of us who went it really wasn't bad, but the fourth estate didn't like it, so a failure it was.
    I went, it really WAS that bad. Mortifyingly awful

    And it cost, what, £600m? For that price we could have had our own Hubble Space Telescope, giving us deep insights into the universe

    Instead we got a dirty great tent full of Woke Tat

    I understand it is now a pretty good venue, however; and the area around is revived, from what it was
    I think Mandelbrot was the 'Dome Czar'.
    I still have an unwrapped, untouched commemorative Dome tee shirt bought from the Millennium Dome souvenir shop. I went with a friend (got a free ticket!) and we both agreed the experience was so damnably shite we should buy something as a souvenir, in the hope that in decades to come these items would be valuable, as people remembered the embarrassing, world class mediocrity of it all

    Sadly, people just want to forget. So the shirt sits in my cupboards, unsold and unloved
    Why don’t you wear it as an ironic retro statement
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050
    edited October 2021
    Leon said:

    If 1.23 million Americans die of Covid by the end of 2021, that's 0.3% of the population

    Romania is one of the worst. 170,000 excess deaths are predicted by end 2021, out of a population of 19 million. Almost one in a hundred Romanians will die

    Yes but only 33% of Romanians have been double vaccinated which is even below the global average of 34% double vaccinated let alone the EU average of 72% double vaccinated.
    https://www.euronews.com/2021/09/28/romania-reports-new-record-for-covid-19-cases-amid-slow-vaccination-rates

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,853
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    OT
    I don't think the underlying reality of Starmer's chances have changed much. I think this odds change is more of a correction to near where it should have been. I think people have been vastly overestimating the likelihood of Starmer being replaced before an election. Yes, it's still possible, but no, I don't think it'll happen.

    I think this is right - his position is more secure and this reflects that.
    Agree. SKS's chance of being next PM is calculated thus:
    There is a nearly 50% chance of the Tories coming below about 320 seats. This puts SKS as next PM (coalition almost certainly, he would need a black swan to win) unless:

    Boris was replaced as PM before this happens
    SKS was replaced before this happens
    or
    The Tories manage a coalition, and even if they do SKS still has a chance of being next PM if Boris is still in charge. (The chance of all this is tiny)

    Those three contingencies I would put as 10-15% between them. SKS has a 33-40% chance of being next PM.



    I’m not sure it is that high. I think one thing such a probability is predicated on is that we see a return to historical norms ie less controversial opposition leader comes in, some of the scared ex-Labour voters come home and that tips over a number of seats. However, there is a strong case for saying Labour’s problems are more structural and that they are less through them than the Conservatives’ equivalent, namely urban professionals. There are likely to be a number of “Labour Till I Die” voters still out there who are literally dying off. Add that to signs the Indian community is moving more Conservative and that Labour’s Muslim voters may be open to a left wing, anti-woke alternative such as Galloway, there is a decent case for saying SKS’ odds should be more like 20-25%.

    Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Conservatives increase their majority at the next GE. Not saying it’s a probability but it’s definitely a distinct possibility.
    There is definitely a chance - a good chance - that the Conservatives increase their majority at the next election.

    It's probably:

    20% inc Con majority
    55% reduced Con majority (but still majority)
    7% only Con minority possible

    Something like that...
    If you make a CON majority a 75% chance then the 40% on Betfair on that outcome is a good bet
    Yes, it's a cracking bet.
    If a Tory majority is 40%, Starmer next PM must be higher than 23%.
    Tory Majority should be easily odds on in my opinion
    5/7.
    I think what we should look for is substantial churn. With new boundaries and continuing demographic and social changes it’s not hard to see Labour losing another 40 seats in the north and midlands while advancing in the south, and Wales.

    About the only things I am confident of predicting are that (1) the SNP will be the largest party in Scotland (2) Labour will be the largest party in Wales, the Tories having blown their window of opportunity to break through and (3) the Liberal Democrats will win seats only within easy commuter distance of major university cities plus Orkney and Shetland.
    What do you think is the chance that Boris will blow the recover enough to hurt his Red Wall support?

    If everybody here is significantly worse off, he may be a goner.
    In a week were Starmer did well (the Labour Party-not so much) and there has been chaos in the supply chain, Johnson's performance has been more self-assured than it has been for a while. The war on immigrant labour is an absolute winner as is the rhetoric around big, big pay rises for English workers without a downside. An added bonus is a remarkably high number of voters believe the fuel crisis is the work of the last Labour Government. That being the case, stagflation can surely be put at the door of Gordon Brown.

    The mind boggles.
    I blame the 3rd Marquess of Salisbury for the Millennium Dome.
    No that was entirely the Blair Government, nothing to do with Michael Heseltine either. For those of us who went it really wasn't bad, but the fourth estate didn't like it, so a failure it was.
    I went, it really WAS that bad. Mortifyingly awful

    And it cost, what, £600m? For that price we could have had our own Hubble Space Telescope, giving us deep insights into the universe

    Instead we got a dirty great tent full of Woke Tat

    I understand it is now a pretty good venue, however; and the area around is revived, from what it was
    I think Mandelbrot was the 'Dome Czar'.
    I still have an unwrapped, untouched commemorative Dome tee shirt bought from the Millennium Dome souvenir shop. I went with a friend (got a free ticket!) and we both agreed the experience was so damnably shite we should buy something as a souvenir, in the hope that in decades to come these items would be valuable, as people remembered the embarrassing, world class mediocrity of it all

    Sadly, people just want to forget. So the shirt sits in my cupboards, unsold and unloved
    You could wear it. You know, to keep warm. Like I wear my 2014 indyref T-shirts and my 2019 Cosmonauts echibition T-shirt and innumerable scientific conference T-shirts around the house and in the garden.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,684

    Evening all! Entirely off-topic, what is the best way to fly with a suit? I have found a couple of videos showing how to fold a jacket inside out and fol with the trousers into a suitcase, alternately a thin suit carrier as a carry-on sat on top of bags in the overhead bins. Never needed to fly a suit so curious if people have a tried and tested method.

    Wear it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050
    edited October 2021
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    OT
    I don't think the underlying reality of Starmer's chances have changed much. I think this odds change is more of a correction to near where it should have been. I think people have been vastly overestimating the likelihood of Starmer being replaced before an election. Yes, it's still possible, but no, I don't think it'll happen.

    I think this is right - his position is more secure and this reflects that.
    Agree. SKS's chance of being next PM is calculated thus:
    There is a nearly 50% chance of the Tories coming below about 320 seats. This puts SKS as next PM (coalition almost certainly, he would need a black swan to win) unless:

    Boris was replaced as PM before this happens
    SKS was replaced before this happens
    or
    The Tories manage a coalition, and even if they do SKS still has a chance of being next PM if Boris is still in charge. (The chance of all this is tiny)

    Those three contingencies I would put as 10-15% between them. SKS has a 33-40% chance of being next PM.



    I’m not sure it is that high. I think one thing such a probability is predicated on is that we see a return to historical norms ie less controversial opposition leader comes in, some of the scared ex-Labour voters come home and that tips over a number of seats. However, there is a strong case for saying Labour’s problems are more structural and that they are less through them than the Conservatives’ equivalent, namely urban professionals. There are likely to be a number of “Labour Till I Die” voters still out there who are literally dying off. Add that to signs the Indian community is moving more Conservative and that Labour’s Muslim voters may be open to a left wing, anti-woke alternative such as Galloway, there is a decent case for saying SKS’ odds should be more like 20-25%.

    Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Conservatives increase their majority at the next GE. Not saying it’s a probability but it’s definitely a distinct possibility.
    There is definitely a chance - a good chance - that the Conservatives increase their majority at the next election.

    It's probably:

    20% inc Con majority
    55% reduced Con majority (but still majority)
    7% only Con minority possible

    Something like that...
    If you make a CON majority a 75% chance then the 40% on Betfair on that outcome is a good bet
    Yes, it's a cracking bet.
    If a Tory majority is 40%, Starmer next PM must be higher than 23%.
    Tory Majority should be easily odds on in my opinion
    5/7.
    I think what we should look for is substantial churn. With new boundaries and continuing demographic and social changes it’s not hard to see Labour losing another 40 seats in the north and midlands while advancing in the south, and Wales.

    About the only things I am confident of predicting are that (1) the SNP will be the largest party in Scotland (2) Labour will be the largest party in Wales, the Tories having blown their window of opportunity to break through and (3) the Liberal Democrats will win seats only within easy commuter distance of major university cities plus Orkney and Shetland.
    What do you think is the chance that Boris will blow the recover enough to hurt his Red Wall support?

    If everybody here is significantly worse off, he may be a goner.
    In a week were Starmer did well (the Labour Party-not so much) and there has been chaos in the supply chain, Johnson's performance has been more self-assured than it has been for a while. The war on immigrant labour is an absolute winner as is the rhetoric around big, big pay rises for English workers without a downside. An added bonus is a remarkably high number of voters believe the fuel crisis is the work of the last Labour Government. That being the case, stagflation can surely be put at the door of Gordon Brown.

    The mind boggles.
    I blame the 3rd Marquess of Salisbury for the Millennium Dome.
    No that was entirely the Blair Government, nothing to do with Michael Heseltine either. For those of us who went it really wasn't bad, but the fourth estate didn't like it, so a failure it was.
    I went, it really WAS that bad. Mortifyingly awful

    And it cost, what, £600m? For that price we could have had our own Hubble Space Telescope, giving us deep insights into the universe

    Instead we got a dirty great tent full of Woke Tat

    I understand it is now a pretty good venue, however; and the area around is revived, from what it was
    I think Mandelbrot was the 'Dome Czar'.
    Blair's former flatmate Lord Falconer was Minister for the Dome from 1998, taking over from Mandelson.

    It was Heseltine's idea, ended up being a New Labour project so inevitably reflected that, even the Queen had to be dragged along on Millennium Eve when I am sure she would rather have been at Sandringham
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349
    Charles said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    OT
    I don't think the underlying reality of Starmer's chances have changed much. I think this odds change is more of a correction to near where it should have been. I think people have been vastly overestimating the likelihood of Starmer being replaced before an election. Yes, it's still possible, but no, I don't think it'll happen.

    I think this is right - his position is more secure and this reflects that.
    Agree. SKS's chance of being next PM is calculated thus:
    There is a nearly 50% chance of the Tories coming below about 320 seats. This puts SKS as next PM (coalition almost certainly, he would need a black swan to win) unless:

    Boris was replaced as PM before this happens
    SKS was replaced before this happens
    or
    The Tories manage a coalition, and even if they do SKS still has a chance of being next PM if Boris is still in charge. (The chance of all this is tiny)

    Those three contingencies I would put as 10-15% between them. SKS has a 33-40% chance of being next PM.



    I’m not sure it is that high. I think one thing such a probability is predicated on is that we see a return to historical norms ie less controversial opposition leader comes in, some of the scared ex-Labour voters come home and that tips over a number of seats. However, there is a strong case for saying Labour’s problems are more structural and that they are less through them than the Conservatives’ equivalent, namely urban professionals. There are likely to be a number of “Labour Till I Die” voters still out there who are literally dying off. Add that to signs the Indian community is moving more Conservative and that Labour’s Muslim voters may be open to a left wing, anti-woke alternative such as Galloway, there is a decent case for saying SKS’ odds should be more like 20-25%.

    Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Conservatives increase their majority at the next GE. Not saying it’s a probability but it’s definitely a distinct possibility.
    There is definitely a chance - a good chance - that the Conservatives increase their majority at the next election.

    It's probably:

    20% inc Con majority
    55% reduced Con majority (but still majority)
    7% only Con minority possible

    Something like that...
    If you make a CON majority a 75% chance then the 40% on Betfair on that outcome is a good bet
    Yes, it's a cracking bet.
    If a Tory majority is 40%, Starmer next PM must be higher than 23%.
    Tory Majority should be easily odds on in my opinion
    5/7.
    I think what we should look for is substantial churn. With new boundaries and continuing demographic and social changes it’s not hard to see Labour losing another 40 seats in the north and midlands while advancing in the south, and Wales.

    About the only things I am confident of predicting are that (1) the SNP will be the largest party in Scotland (2) Labour will be the largest party in Wales, the Tories having blown their window of opportunity to break through and (3) the Liberal Democrats will win seats only within easy commuter distance of major university cities plus Orkney and Shetland.
    What do you think is the chance that Boris will blow the recover enough to hurt his Red Wall support?

    If everybody here is significantly worse off, he may be a goner.
    In a week were Starmer did well (the Labour Party-not so much) and there has been chaos in the supply chain, Johnson's performance has been more self-assured than it has been for a while. The war on immigrant labour is an absolute winner as is the rhetoric around big, big pay rises for English workers without a downside. An added bonus is a remarkably high number of voters believe the fuel crisis is the work of the last Labour Government. That being the case, stagflation can surely be put at the door of Gordon Brown.

    The mind boggles.
    I blame the 3rd Marquess of Salisbury for the Millennium Dome.
    No that was entirely the Blair Government, nothing to do with Michael Heseltine either. For those of us who went it really wasn't bad, but the fourth estate didn't like it, so a failure it was.
    I went, it really WAS that bad. Mortifyingly awful

    And it cost, what, £600m? For that price we could have had our own Hubble Space Telescope, giving us deep insights into the universe

    Instead we got a dirty great tent full of Woke Tat

    I understand it is now a pretty good venue, however; and the area around is revived, from what it was
    I think Mandelbrot was the 'Dome Czar'.
    I still have an unwrapped, untouched commemorative Dome tee shirt bought from the Millennium Dome souvenir shop. I went with a friend (got a free ticket!) and we both agreed the experience was so damnably shite we should buy something as a souvenir, in the hope that in decades to come these items would be valuable, as people remembered the embarrassing, world class mediocrity of it all

    Sadly, people just want to forget. So the shirt sits in my cupboards, unsold and unloved
    Why don’t you wear it as an ironic retro statement
    It will be my gardening tee-shirt, when I finally retire to my little allotment in the sun. That's the plan
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050
    gealbhan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BigRich said:

    New French poll has Eric Zemmour overtaking any of the candidates for les Republicains

    Macron 25%
    Marine Le Pen 16%
    Eric Zemmour 15%
    Xavier Bertrand 14%

    The alternative LR candidates do worse:
    Valérie Pécresse 12%
    Michel Barnier 11%

    I haven't heard of Eric Zemmour, do we know much about him?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_French_Suicide
    He may end up being more Eurosceptic than Ms Le Pen, given her recent dash to the centre.
    Why is Mari tanking in the polls? People she competes with for votes getting airtime?
    Zemmour basically espouses most of her agenda but with more intellectual sophistication
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,577
    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050
    edited October 2021

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    Russia has even fewer double jabbed than Romania, just 29%.

    The housing is cheap though
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    You can use Euromomo to get Europe wide excess death figures if you want a fairly definitive official source.

    The one thing is that the data for some/most countries heavily lagged.

    https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I had understood that the east was largely depopulated and was being filled by Chinese spreading northwards
  • Foxy said:

    Evening all! Entirely off-topic, what is the best way to fly with a suit? I have found a couple of videos showing how to fold a jacket inside out and fol with the trousers into a suitcase, alternately a thin suit carrier as a carry-on sat on top of bags in the overhead bins. Never needed to fly a suit so curious if people have a tried and tested method.

    Wear it.
    Have certainly considered that. As I have to wear it for three days straight at the other end do I want a 4th day in it?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,514
    rcs1000 said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    OT
    I don't think the underlying reality of Starmer's chances have changed much. I think this odds change is more of a correction to near where it should have been. I think people have been vastly overestimating the likelihood of Starmer being replaced before an election. Yes, it's still possible, but no, I don't think it'll happen.

    I think this is right - his position is more secure and this reflects that.
    Agree. SKS's chance of being next PM is calculated thus:
    There is a nearly 50% chance of the Tories coming below about 320 seats. This puts SKS as next PM (coalition almost certainly, he would need a black swan to win) unless:

    Boris was replaced as PM before this happens
    SKS was replaced before this happens
    or
    The Tories manage a coalition, and even if they do SKS still has a chance of being next PM if Boris is still in charge. (The chance of all this is tiny)

    Those three contingencies I would put as 10-15% between them. SKS has a 33-40% chance of being next PM.



    I’m not sure it is that high. I think one thing such a probability is predicated on is that we see a return to historical norms ie less controversial opposition leader comes in, some of the scared ex-Labour voters come home and that tips over a number of seats. However, there is a strong case for saying Labour’s problems are more structural and that they are less through them than the Conservatives’ equivalent, namely urban professionals. There are likely to be a number of “Labour Till I Die” voters still out there who are literally dying off. Add that to signs the Indian community is moving more Conservative and that Labour’s Muslim voters may be open to a left wing, anti-woke alternative such as Galloway, there is a decent case for saying SKS’ odds should be more like 20-25%.

    Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Conservatives increase their majority at the next GE. Not saying it’s a probability but it’s definitely a distinct possibility.
    There is definitely a chance - a good chance - that the Conservatives increase their majority at the next election.

    It's probably:

    20% inc Con majority
    55% reduced Con majority (but still majority)
    7% only Con minority possible

    Something like that...
    If you make a CON majority a 75% chance then the 40% on Betfair on that outcome is a good bet
    Yes, it's a cracking bet.
    If a Tory majority is 40%, Starmer next PM must be higher than 23%.
    Tory majority is a lot better chance than 40%.

    Firstly, this is a big seat lead to blow. I mean, it can happen (see 2007), but it's pretty hard to blow an 80 seat majority all in one go. (Plus, of course, the Conservatives probably have a small boost from the boundaries.)

    Secondly, it's not like the opposition is kicking the governments butts. I mean, if Starmer was winning byelections from the Conservatives and recording consistent poll leads (like, say, Ed Milliband), then you'd reckon they were in with a chance. But they're not.

    Thirdly, the last time we had the government flip (2010), local elections showed the government moribund. The same was true of 1997. This time, the government is gaining council seats.

    Now, I agree that Covid has messed up the usual electoral cycle. That's reasonable. I also think Boris is still getting a Brexit "thank you" boost. And it's possible that both those things dissipate to the level where the Conservative majority is imperilled. But it doesn't seem that likely.

    To me, the most likely outcome is that the Conservatives lose a little bit of share, and there's a little bit more tactical voting, and the SNP gain some seats, and the Conservatives drop to a 30 or 40 seat majority. But I'm not seeing the seachange necessary for Starmer to end up in Number 10.
    A completely reasonable argument with which I don't agree.

    With the number of unknowns between now and an election, and old friends lurking like inflation (especially), there are no reasons for significantly differentiating between a Tory majority (325/6+) seats and the other outcome (325/4-) seats.

    All it takes is Lab to take 35 seats, LDs 10 and SNP 3 off the Tories. This is doable without Labour being lead by Pericles; it simply requires a bit of "time for a change" sentiment.

    The Tories have no friends, so if they go below viability they won't survive. The centre left will not be forgiven if it missed the chance of government, despite the obvious questions.

    Therefore the probabilities of a non Tory government and SKS PM are high. About 40%.

    Probabilities and predictions are different things. I predict a Tory win next time. By how much I have no idea. Somewhere between 1 and 120 I should think.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited October 2021

    Foxy said:

    Evening all! Entirely off-topic, what is the best way to fly with a suit? I have found a couple of videos showing how to fold a jacket inside out and fol with the trousers into a suitcase, alternately a thin suit carrier as a carry-on sat on top of bags in the overhead bins. Never needed to fly a suit so curious if people have a tried and tested method.

    Wear it.
    Have certainly considered that. As I have to wear it for three days straight at the other end do I want a 4th day in it?
    Ask your tailor if you can borrow a suit carrier?

    *ducks*
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,200

    Foxy said:

    Evening all! Entirely off-topic, what is the best way to fly with a suit? I have found a couple of videos showing how to fold a jacket inside out and fol with the trousers into a suitcase, alternately a thin suit carrier as a carry-on sat on top of bags in the overhead bins. Never needed to fly a suit so curious if people have a tried and tested method.

    Wear it.
    Have certainly considered that. As I have to wear it for three days straight at the other end do I want a 4th day in it?
    Give it to the V&A.
  • isam said:

    Evening all! Entirely off-topic, what is the best way to fly with a suit? I have found a couple of videos showing how to fold a jacket inside out and fol with the trousers into a suitcase, alternately a thin suit carrier as a carry-on sat on top of bags in the overhead bins. Never needed to fly a suit so curious if people have a tried and tested method.


    Red pants over a blue all in one
    Flying in a suit:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBi5RezWSaI
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Leon said:

    An anomaly. London has probably the worst vax rates in the country - eg Camden is around 60%


    Yet London has roughly the fewest cases and deaths, as well

    I guess so many here have had either the vax OR the pox there is nowhere for the virus to go? Which is a positive sign


    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map/cases

    London got absolutely smashed in Winter. Given the lack of vaccination at the time the case numbers London was putting out was terrifying.
  • Charles said:

    This amused me, in a childish sort of way


    Mad Magazine used to do this kind of thing all the time, and quite well, back in the day.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    Just accidentally caught 12 seconds of Mary Beard interviewing Hillary, and now I have to clean up the vomit.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    Foxy said:

    Evening all! Entirely off-topic, what is the best way to fly with a suit? I have found a couple of videos showing how to fold a jacket inside out and fol with the trousers into a suitcase, alternately a thin suit carrier as a carry-on sat on top of bags in the overhead bins. Never needed to fly a suit so curious if people have a tried and tested method.

    Wear it.
    Have certainly considered that. As I have to wear it for three days straight at the other end do I want a 4th day in it?
    Two suits? ;)
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    OT
    I don't think the underlying reality of Starmer's chances have changed much. I think this odds change is more of a correction to near where it should have been. I think people have been vastly overestimating the likelihood of Starmer being replaced before an election. Yes, it's still possible, but no, I don't think it'll happen.

    I think this is right - his position is more secure and this reflects that.
    Agree. SKS's chance of being next PM is calculated thus:
    There is a nearly 50% chance of the Tories coming below about 320 seats. This puts SKS as next PM (coalition almost certainly, he would need a black swan to win) unless:

    Boris was replaced as PM before this happens
    SKS was replaced before this happens
    or
    The Tories manage a coalition, and even if they do SKS still has a chance of being next PM if Boris is still in charge. (The chance of all this is tiny)

    Those three contingencies I would put as 10-15% between them. SKS has a 33-40% chance of being next PM.



    I’m not sure it is that high. I think one thing such a probability is predicated on is that we see a return to historical norms ie less controversial opposition leader comes in, some of the scared ex-Labour voters come home and that tips over a number of seats. However, there is a strong case for saying Labour’s problems are more structural and that they are less through them than the Conservatives’ equivalent, namely urban professionals. There are likely to be a number of “Labour Till I Die” voters still out there who are literally dying off. Add that to signs the Indian community is moving more Conservative and that Labour’s Muslim voters may be open to a left wing, anti-woke alternative such as Galloway, there is a decent case for saying SKS’ odds should be more like 20-25%.

    Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Conservatives increase their majority at the next GE. Not saying it’s a probability but it’s definitely a distinct possibility.
    There is definitely a chance - a good chance - that the Conservatives increase their majority at the next election.

    It's probably:

    20% inc Con majority
    55% reduced Con majority (but still majority)
    7% only Con minority possible

    Something like that...
    If you make a CON majority a 75% chance then the 40% on Betfair on that outcome is a good bet
    Yes, it's a cracking bet.
    If a Tory majority is 40%, Starmer next PM must be higher than 23%.
    Tory Majority should be easily odds on in my opinion
    5/7.
    I think what we should look for is substantial churn. With new boundaries and continuing demographic and social changes it’s not hard to see Labour losing another 40 seats in the north and midlands while advancing in the south, and Wales.

    About the only things I am confident of predicting are that (1) the SNP will be the largest party in Scotland (2) Labour will be the largest party in Wales, the Tories having blown their window of opportunity to break through and (3) the Liberal Democrats will win seats only within easy commuter distance of major university cities plus Orkney and Shetland.
    What do you think is the chance that Boris will blow the recover enough to hurt his Red Wall support?

    If everybody here is significantly worse off, he may be a goner.
    In a week were Starmer did well (the Labour Party-not so much) and there has been chaos in the supply chain, Johnson's performance has been more self-assured than it has been for a while. The war on immigrant labour is an absolute winner as is the rhetoric around big, big pay rises for English workers without a downside. An added bonus is a remarkably high number of voters believe the fuel crisis is the work of the last Labour Government. That being the case, stagflation can surely be put at the door of Gordon Brown.

    The mind boggles.
    I blame the 3rd Marquess of Salisbury for the Millennium Dome.
    No that was entirely the Blair Government, nothing to do with Michael Heseltine either. For those of us who went it really wasn't bad, but the fourth estate didn't like it, so a failure it was.
    I went, it really WAS that bad. Mortifyingly awful

    And it cost, what, £600m? For that price we could have had our own Hubble Space Telescope, giving us deep insights into the universe

    Instead we got a dirty great tent full of Woke Tat

    I understand it is now a pretty good venue, however; and the area around is revived, from what it was
    You see, your woke tat was Remainer culture.
    I have to say that I quite enjoyed my day at the Dome. Highlights being the pair of legs, and the show. A long time ago, I can barely remember anymore details.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    Foxy said:

    Evening all! Entirely off-topic, what is the best way to fly with a suit? I have found a couple of videos showing how to fold a jacket inside out and fol with the trousers into a suitcase, alternately a thin suit carrier as a carry-on sat on top of bags in the overhead bins. Never needed to fly a suit so curious if people have a tried and tested method.

    Wear it.
    Have certainly considered that. As I have to wear it for three days straight at the other end do I want a 4th day in it?
    I thought that one of the silver linings of the Plague was that it had decimated all need for and interest in suit wearing. Are you absolutely sure that it is necessary?
  • Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Evening all! Entirely off-topic, what is the best way to fly with a suit? I have found a couple of videos showing how to fold a jacket inside out and fol with the trousers into a suitcase, alternately a thin suit carrier as a carry-on sat on top of bags in the overhead bins. Never needed to fly a suit so curious if people have a tried and tested method.

    Wear it.
    Have certainly considered that. As I have to wear it for three days straight at the other end do I want a 4th day in it?
    Ask your tailor if you can borrow a suit carrier?

    *ducks*
    Have got two proper suit carriers, neither of which are plane-friendly as huuuuge.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Watching reports of massive gas shortages and price spikes this Winter with some concern.

    Is it possible that, the Government having smashed the economy and racked up vast debts in its desperate efforts to save old people from Covid, the country will find itself unable to obtain (or afford) enough fuel this Winter and everyone who has been rescued from disease at colossal expense will simply be killed off by the cold instead?

    Alas, the Plague disaster may not truly be over, it may simply be about to metastasise into something different but even more lethal. Aren't we lucky?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,200
    EU delays Trade Talks with Australia.

    https://www.cityam.com/breaking-eu-puts-trade-talks-with-australia-on-hold-after-48bn-submarine-row/

    Good morning, Emmanuel. Have you got a really, really good way for us to punch ourselves in the face?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,176
    pigeon said:

    Watching reports of massive gas shortages and price spikes this Winter with some concern.

    Is it possible that, the Government having smashed the economy and racked up vast debts in its desperate efforts to save old people from Covid, the country will find itself unable to obtain (or afford) enough fuel this Winter and everyone who has been rescued from disease at colossal expense will simply be killed off by the cold instead?

    Alas, the Plague disaster may not truly be over, it may simply be about to metastasise into something different but even more lethal. Aren't we lucky?

    No.

    Gas production is now rising again (albeit slowly) and that will accelerate as drilling increases in the US.

    US electricity demand is also now falling as temperatures drop.

    And there are three or four big LNG projects that are coming on stream in the next four to six months.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349
    pigeon said:

    Watching reports of massive gas shortages and price spikes this Winter with some concern.

    Is it possible that, the Government having smashed the economy and racked up vast debts in its desperate efforts to save old people from Covid, the country will find itself unable to obtain (or afford) enough fuel this Winter and everyone who has been rescued from disease at colossal expense will simply be killed off by the cold instead?

    Alas, the Plague disaster may not truly be over, it may simply be about to metastasise into something different but even more lethal. Aren't we lucky?

    Do you have any evidence for this impending metastasis or are you just trying to freak everyone out?


    Asking for a bipolar friend
  • Foxy said:

    Evening all! Entirely off-topic, what is the best way to fly with a suit? I have found a couple of videos showing how to fold a jacket inside out and fol with the trousers into a suitcase, alternately a thin suit carrier as a carry-on sat on top of bags in the overhead bins. Never needed to fly a suit so curious if people have a tried and tested method.

    Wear it.
    Have certainly considered that. As I have to wear it for three days straight at the other end do I want a 4th day in it?
    Buy a suit (or two) at your destination. OR spring for airfare for your tailor so they'll be on the spot to bespoke you!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,684
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
    A unified Korea will sort it out though.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050
    edited October 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
    Yet where are the highest global birthrates? Africa. So in gdp terms it may actually be global growth is less in the Far East than in Africa over the rest of the century, even if the Far East obviously gets a far higher gdp per capita than Africa.

    India too has a bigger birthrate than China
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
    A unified Korea will sort it out though.
    At this rate North Korea will simply invade the south, and advance unimpeded against the South Korean army of 13 soldiers, consisting of two ex-K Pop bands and the guy that did Gangnam Style
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845
    Scott_xP said:

    Crisis? What crisis..?

    Oh...

    The government says nearly 200 military tanker personnel (100 of them drivers) will begin fuel deliveries from Monday
    https://twitter.com/iainjwatson/status/1444006361944178689

    Drove to Banbury today with my full tank of fuel. Still about 250 miles left. Have to admit I was slightly startled by the number of service stations with no fuel according to motorway signing. Absolutely nothing like that in Scotland.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,176
    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    OT
    I don't think the underlying reality of Starmer's chances have changed much. I think this odds change is more of a correction to near where it should have been. I think people have been vastly overestimating the likelihood of Starmer being replaced before an election. Yes, it's still possible, but no, I don't think it'll happen.

    I think this is right - his position is more secure and this reflects that.
    Agree. SKS's chance of being next PM is calculated thus:
    There is a nearly 50% chance of the Tories coming below about 320 seats. This puts SKS as next PM (coalition almost certainly, he would need a black swan to win) unless:

    Boris was replaced as PM before this happens
    SKS was replaced before this happens
    or
    The Tories manage a coalition, and even if they do SKS still has a chance of being next PM if Boris is still in charge. (The chance of all this is tiny)

    Those three contingencies I would put as 10-15% between them. SKS has a 33-40% chance of being next PM.



    I’m not sure it is that high. I think one thing such a probability is predicated on is that we see a return to historical norms ie less controversial opposition leader comes in, some of the scared ex-Labour voters come home and that tips over a number of seats. However, there is a strong case for saying Labour’s problems are more structural and that they are less through them than the Conservatives’ equivalent, namely urban professionals. There are likely to be a number of “Labour Till I Die” voters still out there who are literally dying off. Add that to signs the Indian community is moving more Conservative and that Labour’s Muslim voters may be open to a left wing, anti-woke alternative such as Galloway, there is a decent case for saying SKS’ odds should be more like 20-25%.

    Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Conservatives increase their majority at the next GE. Not saying it’s a probability but it’s definitely a distinct possibility.
    There is definitely a chance - a good chance - that the Conservatives increase their majority at the next election.

    It's probably:

    20% inc Con majority
    55% reduced Con majority (but still majority)
    7% only Con minority possible

    Something like that...
    If you make a CON majority a 75% chance then the 40% on Betfair on that outcome is a good bet
    Yes, it's a cracking bet.
    If a Tory majority is 40%, Starmer next PM must be higher than 23%.
    Tory majority is a lot better chance than 40%.

    Firstly, this is a big seat lead to blow. I mean, it can happen (see 2007), but it's pretty hard to blow an 80 seat majority all in one go. (Plus, of course, the Conservatives probably have a small boost from the boundaries.)

    Secondly, it's not like the opposition is kicking the governments butts. I mean, if Starmer was winning byelections from the Conservatives and recording consistent poll leads (like, say, Ed Milliband), then you'd reckon they were in with a chance. But they're not.

    Thirdly, the last time we had the government flip (2010), local elections showed the government moribund. The same was true of 1997. This time, the government is gaining council seats.

    Now, I agree that Covid has messed up the usual electoral cycle. That's reasonable. I also think Boris is still getting a Brexit "thank you" boost. And it's possible that both those things dissipate to the level where the Conservative majority is imperilled. But it doesn't seem that likely.

    To me, the most likely outcome is that the Conservatives lose a little bit of share, and there's a little bit more tactical voting, and the SNP gain some seats, and the Conservatives drop to a 30 or 40 seat majority. But I'm not seeing the seachange necessary for Starmer to end up in Number 10.
    A completely reasonable argument with which I don't agree.

    With the number of unknowns between now and an election, and old friends lurking like inflation (especially), there are no reasons for significantly differentiating between a Tory majority (325/6+) seats and the other outcome (325/4-) seats.

    All it takes is Lab to take 35 seats, LDs 10 and SNP 3 off the Tories. This is doable without Labour being lead by Pericles; it simply requires a bit of "time for a change" sentiment.

    The Tories have no friends, so if they go below viability they won't survive. The centre left will not be forgiven if it missed the chance of government, despite the obvious questions.

    Therefore the probabilities of a non Tory government and SKS PM are high. About 40%.

    Probabilities and predictions are different things. I predict a Tory win next time. By how much I have no idea. Somewhere between 1 and 120 I should think.

    Doable != Close to 50/50 chance
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Watching reports of massive gas shortages and price spikes this Winter with some concern.

    Is it possible that, the Government having smashed the economy and racked up vast debts in its desperate efforts to save old people from Covid, the country will find itself unable to obtain (or afford) enough fuel this Winter and everyone who has been rescued from disease at colossal expense will simply be killed off by the cold instead?

    Alas, the Plague disaster may not truly be over, it may simply be about to metastasise into something different but even more lethal. Aren't we lucky?

    Do you have any evidence for this impending metastasis or are you just trying to freak everyone out?

    Asking for a bipolar friend
    Absolutely none at all. I'm just reverting (momentarily) to the "assume the worst, because that's what usually happens" approach to these things.

    In point of fact I'm feeling fairly optimistic that things might be a little rocky but we'll all be fine in the end.

    Probably.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,176

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Evening all! Entirely off-topic, what is the best way to fly with a suit? I have found a couple of videos showing how to fold a jacket inside out and fol with the trousers into a suitcase, alternately a thin suit carrier as a carry-on sat on top of bags in the overhead bins. Never needed to fly a suit so curious if people have a tried and tested method.

    Wear it.
    Have certainly considered that. As I have to wear it for three days straight at the other end do I want a 4th day in it?
    Ask your tailor if you can borrow a suit carrier?

    *ducks*
    Have got two proper suit carriers, neither of which are plane-friendly as huuuuge.
    Get a bigger plane?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845
    pigeon said:

    Watching reports of massive gas shortages and price spikes this Winter with some concern.

    Is it possible that, the Government having smashed the economy and racked up vast debts in its desperate efforts to save old people from Covid, the country will find itself unable to obtain (or afford) enough fuel this Winter and everyone who has been rescued from disease at colossal expense will simply be killed off by the cold instead?

    Alas, the Plague disaster may not truly be over, it may simply be about to metastasise into something different but even more lethal. Aren't we lucky?

    Nah. We have global warming. We will all be out in T shirts and shorts in mid December.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,684
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
    A unified Korea will sort it out though.
    At this rate North Korea will simply invade the south, and advance unimpeded against the South Korean army of 13 soldiers, consisting of two ex-K Pop bands and the guy that did Gangnam Style
    I didn't say how Korea would unify!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,091
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Very impressive result from Merck's antiviral:

    ...Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, and Ridgeback Biotherapeutics today announced that molnupiravir (MK-4482, EIDD-2801), an investigational oral antiviral medicine, significantly reduced the risk of hospitalization or death at a planned interim analysis of the Phase 3 MOVe-OUT trial in at risk, non-hospitalized adult patients with mild-to-moderate COVID-19. At the interim analysis, molnupiravir reduced the risk of hospitalization or death by approximately 50%; 7.3% of patients who received molnupiravir were either hospitalized or died through Day 29 following randomization (28/385), compared with 14.1% of placebo-treated patients (53/377); p=0.0012. Through Day 29, no deaths were reported in patients who received molnupiravir, as compared to 8 deaths in patients who received placebo. At the recommendation of an independent Data Monitoring Committee and in consultation with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), recruitment into the study is being stopped early due to these positive results. Merck plans to submit an application for Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) to the U.S. FDA as soon as possible based on these findings and plans to submit marketing applications to other regulatory bodies worldwide...

    Indeed. The USA has ordered 10 million courses it appears, at a cost of $1.7 billion.

    Merck says they will do a cheaper version for other markets.
    Margin on that must be huge.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
    Is it though? This is a country which claims it is "full". They haven't lived 6 years in Yung He.
  • pigeon said:

    Foxy said:

    Evening all! Entirely off-topic, what is the best way to fly with a suit? I have found a couple of videos showing how to fold a jacket inside out and fol with the trousers into a suitcase, alternately a thin suit carrier as a carry-on sat on top of bags in the overhead bins. Never needed to fly a suit so curious if people have a tried and tested method.

    Wear it.
    Have certainly considered that. As I have to wear it for three days straight at the other end do I want a 4th day in it?
    I thought that one of the silver linings of the Plague was that it had decimated all need for and interest in suit wearing. Are you absolutely sure that it is necessary?
    Am going to two trade expos in a week. At the first one I meet both clients for the first time. Nice suit definitely needed and frankly feels great actually having the use for one.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
    A unified Korea will sort it out though.
    At this rate North Korea will simply invade the south, and advance unimpeded against the South Korean army of 13 soldiers, consisting of two ex-K Pop bands and the guy that did Gangnam Style
    North Korea is not vastly higher at 1.9 children per woman

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
    This would be good news if the fall was not going to be dwarfed by the increase in population in Africa.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
    Yet where are the highest global birthrates? Africa. So in gdp terms it may actually be global growth is less in the Far East than in Africa over the rest of the century, even if the Far East obviously gets a far higher gdp per capita than Africa
    Even in Africa birth rates are beginning to drop, in some places very fast

    The 21st century might be the century when the global population of humans begins to fall

    With robots and automation, ultimately, that might not be a problem, indeed it could be a good thing

    You only have to go to a country like Egypt - population 104,000,000 - to realise that they have simply too many people. Egypt's optimum population, given its size and the area of fertile land, should be about a third of that at most?

    Cairo has gone from poor but busy city with some lush attractive areas and even nice parks and boulevards, to an absolute shit-hole, in my lifetime. Too Many People
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    rcs1000 said:

    pigeon said:

    Watching reports of massive gas shortages and price spikes this Winter with some concern.

    Is it possible that, the Government having smashed the economy and racked up vast debts in its desperate efforts to save old people from Covid, the country will find itself unable to obtain (or afford) enough fuel this Winter and everyone who has been rescued from disease at colossal expense will simply be killed off by the cold instead?

    Alas, the Plague disaster may not truly be over, it may simply be about to metastasise into something different but even more lethal. Aren't we lucky?

    No.

    Gas production is now rising again (albeit slowly) and that will accelerate as drilling increases in the US.

    US electricity demand is also now falling as temperatures drop.

    And there are three or four big LNG projects that are coming on stream in the next four to six months.
    OTOH are the Americans going to export to us? No. Are these amazing new projects going to magically bail us out before the Winter rolls up? No.

    But as I just replied to @Leon, my previous remarks were a mere passing moment of catastrophism, and I imagine that everything will probably turn out fine in the end...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited October 2021

    Foxy said:

    Evening all! Entirely off-topic, what is the best way to fly with a suit? I have found a couple of videos showing how to fold a jacket inside out and fol with the trousers into a suitcase, alternately a thin suit carrier as a carry-on sat on top of bags in the overhead bins. Never needed to fly a suit so curious if people have a tried and tested method.

    Wear it.
    Have certainly considered that. As I have to wear it for three days straight at the other end do I want a 4th day in it?
    Buy a suit (or two) at your destination. OR spring for airfare for your tailor so they'll be on the spot to bespoke you!
    Something yours truly has done in the past, is roll up a suit (jacket & pants separately) and then either get it pressed at destination OR just steam out the wrinkles (via the shower) in the bathroom.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,684

    pigeon said:

    Foxy said:

    Evening all! Entirely off-topic, what is the best way to fly with a suit? I have found a couple of videos showing how to fold a jacket inside out and fol with the trousers into a suitcase, alternately a thin suit carrier as a carry-on sat on top of bags in the overhead bins. Never needed to fly a suit so curious if people have a tried and tested method.

    Wear it.
    Have certainly considered that. As I have to wear it for three days straight at the other end do I want a 4th day in it?
    I thought that one of the silver linings of the Plague was that it had decimated all need for and interest in suit wearing. Are you absolutely sure that it is necessary?
    Am going to two trade expos in a week. At the first one I meet both clients for the first time. Nice suit definitely needed and frankly feels great actually having the use for one.
    I have started wearing suits once again at work, dapper ties and proper shoes again.

    After wearing pajamas for a year it feels great.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349
    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Watching reports of massive gas shortages and price spikes this Winter with some concern.

    Is it possible that, the Government having smashed the economy and racked up vast debts in its desperate efforts to save old people from Covid, the country will find itself unable to obtain (or afford) enough fuel this Winter and everyone who has been rescued from disease at colossal expense will simply be killed off by the cold instead?

    Alas, the Plague disaster may not truly be over, it may simply be about to metastasise into something different but even more lethal. Aren't we lucky?

    Do you have any evidence for this impending metastasis or are you just trying to freak everyone out?

    Asking for a bipolar friend
    Absolutely none at all. I'm just reverting (momentarily) to the "assume the worst, because that's what usually happens" approach to these things.

    In point of fact I'm feeling fairly optimistic that things might be a little rocky but we'll all be fine in the end.

    Probably.
    Aha! My old maxim for Dealing With Covid


    Yes, I hope it is disproved soon
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
    I appreciate that low birth rates have difficult issues around who creates the wealth and who looks after the old but on one level falling birth rates are surely a very good thing for the planet and therefore the future of the human race.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,665
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
    A unified Korea will sort it out though.
    At this rate North Korea will simply invade the south, and advance unimpeded against the South Korean army of 13 soldiers, consisting of two ex-K Pop bands and the guy that did Gangnam Style
    I didn't say how Korea would unify!
    You were recommending a book the other week that praised North Korea's economic success. :)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
    A unified Korea will sort it out though.
    At this rate North Korea will simply invade the south, and advance unimpeded against the South Korean army of 13 soldiers, consisting of two ex-K Pop bands and the guy that did Gangnam Style
    North Korea is not vastly higher at 1.9 children per woman

    Surely that is a very transphobic form of measurement. Isn’t it?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,994
    Britain’s winter blues: ‘Christmas shortages are now a certainty’ https://on.ft.com/3uvuRZ6
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
    I appreciate that low birth rates have difficult issues around who creates the wealth and who looks after the old but on one level falling birth rates are surely a very good thing for the planet and therefore the future of the human race.
    Fewer humans is, indeed, probably a good thing (even for humans, certainly for the rest of the living planet)

    The problem is adjusting, and also, how we cope with so many oldsters. We either need some new drugs that revive the crumblies and cure dementia, or we need a huge plague that simply wipes out 1bn people over 70


    Nice try, Wuhan, but no bullseye. Have another go
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845
    pigeon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    pigeon said:

    Watching reports of massive gas shortages and price spikes this Winter with some concern.

    Is it possible that, the Government having smashed the economy and racked up vast debts in its desperate efforts to save old people from Covid, the country will find itself unable to obtain (or afford) enough fuel this Winter and everyone who has been rescued from disease at colossal expense will simply be killed off by the cold instead?

    Alas, the Plague disaster may not truly be over, it may simply be about to metastasise into something different but even more lethal. Aren't we lucky?

    No.

    Gas production is now rising again (albeit slowly) and that will accelerate as drilling increases in the US.

    US electricity demand is also now falling as temperatures drop.

    And there are three or four big LNG projects that are coming on stream in the next four to six months.
    OTOH are the Americans going to export to us? No. Are these amazing new projects going to magically bail us out before the Winter rolls up? No.

    But as I just replied to @Leon, my previous remarks were a mere passing moment of catastrophism, and I imagine that everything will probably turn out fine in the end...
    Always look on the bright side of life
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050
    edited October 2021
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
    Yet where are the highest global birthrates? Africa. So in gdp terms it may actually be global growth is less in the Far East than in Africa over the rest of the century, even if the Far East obviously gets a far higher gdp per capita than Africa
    Even in Africa birth rates are beginning to drop, in some places very fast

    The 21st century might be the century when the global population of humans begins to fall

    With robots and automation, ultimately, that might not be a problem, indeed it could be a good thing

    You only have to go to a country like Egypt - population 104,000,000 - to realise that they have simply too many people. Egypt's optimum population, given its size and the area of fertile land, should be about a third of that at most?

    Cairo has gone from poor but busy city with some lush attractive areas and even nice parks and boulevards, to an absolute shit-hole, in my lifetime. Too Many People
    Not any time soon. The top 10 nations by fertility rate are all African, first is Niger at 6.8, 10th is Burkina Faso at 5.1. Nigeria is 5.3.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependencies_by_total_fertility_rate

    Africa also has young religious populations who believe in big families and supporting their elderly.

    There will still be a lot of poverty there as you say unless they advance technologically like the west and Far East which by itself reduces the need for more workers but the sheer scale of their population increase will see them also get a big rise in gdp
  • Foxy said:

    pigeon said:

    Foxy said:

    Evening all! Entirely off-topic, what is the best way to fly with a suit? I have found a couple of videos showing how to fold a jacket inside out and fol with the trousers into a suitcase, alternately a thin suit carrier as a carry-on sat on top of bags in the overhead bins. Never needed to fly a suit so curious if people have a tried and tested method.

    Wear it.
    Have certainly considered that. As I have to wear it for three days straight at the other end do I want a 4th day in it?
    I thought that one of the silver linings of the Plague was that it had decimated all need for and interest in suit wearing. Are you absolutely sure that it is necessary?
    Am going to two trade expos in a week. At the first one I meet both clients for the first time. Nice suit definitely needed and frankly feels great actually having the use for one.
    I have started wearing suits once again at work, dapper ties and proper shoes again.

    After wearing pajamas for a year it feels great.
    Indeed. A combination of lockdown, middle age and a spell on happy pills means I didn't fit in previous suits so had to go shopping. Was great! All hail the waistcoat for disguising covid belly!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,091
    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    UK set to be first country to legislate for safe and efficient rollout of fusion energy
    New green paper establishes government’s view on how to put in place the regulatory framework needed

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-set-to-be-first-country-to-legislate-for-safe-and-efficient-rollout-of-fusion-energy

    With all due respect, fusion is the main source of energy in the UK today, so I don't know why the UK is bothering to legislate when it's already been such a huge success.
    Oh, it enables Mr Johnson to be triumphalist over those Europeans* with their ITERs and Tokamak thingies. Just in time for the Manc conference.

    *yes, I know, including the Brits.
    Big tokamaks are beginning to look like a blind alley.
    But commercial fusion within a couple of decades is a real possibility.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    FWIW:

    The latest from Britain Predicts - if an election was held tomorrow...

    CON: 331 MPs (-34)
    LAB: 230 (+28)
    SNP: 58 (+10)
    LDEM: 7 (-4)

    Most marginal constituency:
    Pudsey (Con 43.9, Lab 43.8)


    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1443993184586063876

    Probably about right, and probably a punishment for the Conservatives fitting the crime.

    A majority of about ten forces the Conservatives to keep going, but there is no way that Johnson, Sunak, Truss or any of them would have the skills to manage a micro-majority like that.

    Quite amusing, if only one could watch from another country.
    Welcome to my world.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
    Yet where are the highest global birthrates? Africa. So in gdp terms it may actually be global growth is less in the Far East than in Africa over the rest of the century, even if the Far East obviously gets a far higher gdp per capita than Africa
    Even in Africa birth rates are beginning to drop, in some places very fast

    The 21st century might be the century when the global population of humans begins to fall

    With robots and automation, ultimately, that might not be a problem, indeed it could be a good thing

    You only have to go to a country like Egypt - population 104,000,000 - to realise that they have simply too many people. Egypt's optimum population, given its size and the area of fertile land, should be about a third of that at most?

    Cairo has gone from poor but busy city with some lush attractive areas and even nice parks and boulevards, to an absolute shit-hole, in my lifetime. Too Many People
    Not any time soon. The top 10 nations by fertility rate are all African, first is Niger at 6.8, 10th is Burkina Faso at 5.1. Nigeria is 5.3.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependencies_by_total_fertility_rate

    Africa also has young religious populations who believe in big families and supporting their elderly.

    There will still be a lot of poverty there as you say unless they advance technologically like the west and Far East which by itself reduces the need for more workers but the sheer scale of their population increase will see them also get a big rise in gdp
    But African birth rates are now falling sharply, they are just coming late to the party

    "When compared with other continents, Africa’s fertility rates of 4.5 children per woman in 2017 seem high. Indeed, it’s the highest in the world. But that figure is low compared with Africa's birthrates of previous decades. It stood at an average of 6.6 children per woman in 1980.

    "And these rates have been falling across the continent. In the Sahel, for example, the region with the highest fertility rates, the number of children per woman has dropped from 7 to 5.7 since 1980. The most spectacular drop has been in North Africa, where the rate was cut in half in 37 years, from 6 children per woman to 3."

    And still they fall


    https://www.afd.fr/en/actualites/dramatic-drop-fertility-across-africa
  • pigeon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    pigeon said:

    Watching reports of massive gas shortages and price spikes this Winter with some concern.

    Is it possible that, the Government having smashed the economy and racked up vast debts in its desperate efforts to save old people from Covid, the country will find itself unable to obtain (or afford) enough fuel this Winter and everyone who has been rescued from disease at colossal expense will simply be killed off by the cold instead?

    Alas, the Plague disaster may not truly be over, it may simply be about to metastasise into something different but even more lethal. Aren't we lucky?

    No.

    Gas production is now rising again (albeit slowly) and that will accelerate as drilling increases in the US.

    US electricity demand is also now falling as temperatures drop.

    And there are three or four big LNG projects that are coming on stream in the next four to six months.
    OTOH are the Americans going to export to us? No. Are these amazing new projects going to magically bail us out before the Winter rolls up? No.

    But as I just replied to @Leon, my previous remarks were a mere passing moment of catastrophism, and I imagine that everything will probably turn out fine in the end...
    The USA is a net importer of natural gas.

    If the Americans produce more, they don't need to export to us. If they simply import less, then that means there's more on the global market available for us and the price comes down.

    It all balances in the end.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Very impressive result from Merck's antiviral:

    ...Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, and Ridgeback Biotherapeutics today announced that molnupiravir (MK-4482, EIDD-2801), an investigational oral antiviral medicine, significantly reduced the risk of hospitalization or death at a planned interim analysis of the Phase 3 MOVe-OUT trial in at risk, non-hospitalized adult patients with mild-to-moderate COVID-19. At the interim analysis, molnupiravir reduced the risk of hospitalization or death by approximately 50%; 7.3% of patients who received molnupiravir were either hospitalized or died through Day 29 following randomization (28/385), compared with 14.1% of placebo-treated patients (53/377); p=0.0012. Through Day 29, no deaths were reported in patients who received molnupiravir, as compared to 8 deaths in patients who received placebo. At the recommendation of an independent Data Monitoring Committee and in consultation with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), recruitment into the study is being stopped early due to these positive results. Merck plans to submit an application for Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) to the U.S. FDA as soon as possible based on these findings and plans to submit marketing applications to other regulatory bodies worldwide...

    Indeed. The USA has ordered 10 million courses it appears, at a cost of $1.7 billion.

    Merck says they will do a cheaper version for other markets.
    Margin on that must be huge.
    Looks quite a tough molecule to produce, at least from a chemical synthesis route.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
    The human race can't keep on multiplying forever or the planet will burn. Importing people who bang out more kids to try to deal with the ageing population problem is just can kicking, and besides the existing population in the affected countries doesn't want mass immigration. The same people who whinge about Britain not taking in enough refugees should try seeing how far they get trying to get Japan, let alone China, to embrace their open borders demands.

    The process we have to go through to stabilise populations in the developed world is as follows:

    1. Concentrate on efforts to keep the population healthy for as long as possible, so people will be forced to keep working for as long as possible.
    2. Keep ramping the retirement age up and up and up, so that the burden of pension provision is kept sustainable.
    3. Let the population drop until we have a substantial excess of vacant properties, which should make housing affordable again, completely transforming household finances. When the surviving cohort of youngsters in 30 or 40 years' time can move out into cheap houses and flats in their early 20s, then they'll be able to afford to form households and start dropping sprogs much more easily, and the population will stop falling. Sorted.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
    Yet where are the highest global birthrates? Africa. So in gdp terms it may actually be global growth is less in the Far East than in Africa over the rest of the century, even if the Far East obviously gets a far higher gdp per capita than Africa
    Even in Africa birth rates are beginning to drop, in some places very fast

    The 21st century might be the century when the global population of humans begins to fall

    With robots and automation, ultimately, that might not be a problem, indeed it could be a good thing

    You only have to go to a country like Egypt - population 104,000,000 - to realise that they have simply too many people. Egypt's optimum population, given its size and the area of fertile land, should be about a third of that at most?

    Cairo has gone from poor but busy city with some lush attractive areas and even nice parks and boulevards, to an absolute shit-hole, in my lifetime. Too Many People
    Not any time soon. The top 10 nations by fertility rate are all African, first is Niger at 6.8, 10th is Burkina Faso at 5.1. Nigeria is 5.3.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependencies_by_total_fertility_rate

    Africa also has young religious populations who believe in big families and supporting their elderly.

    There will still be a lot of poverty there as you say unless they advance technologically like the west and Far East which by itself reduces the need for more workers but the sheer scale of their population increase will see them also get a big rise in gdp
    But African birth rates are now falling sharply, they are just coming late to the party

    "When compared with other continents, Africa’s fertility rates of 4.5 children per woman in 2017 seem high. Indeed, it’s the highest in the world. But that figure is low compared with Africa's birthrates of previous decades. It stood at an average of 6.6 children per woman in 1980.

    "And these rates have been falling across the continent. In the Sahel, for example, the region with the highest fertility rates, the number of children per woman has dropped from 7 to 5.7 since 1980. The most spectacular drop has been in North Africa, where the rate was cut in half in 37 years, from 6 children per woman to 3."

    And still they fall


    https://www.afd.fr/en/actualites/dramatic-drop-fertility-across-africa
    Still significantly bigger than other continents though, which means Africa will still become relatively more important to the global economy and global politics than it is now
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409
    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
    The human race can't keep on multiplying forever or the planet will burn. Importing people who bang out more kids to try to deal with the ageing population problem is just can kicking, and besides the existing population in the affected countries doesn't want mass immigration. The same people who whinge about Britain not taking in enough refugees should try seeing how far they get trying to get Japan, let alone China, to embrace their open borders demands.

    The process we have to go through to stabilise populations in the developed world is as follows:

    1. Concentrate on efforts to keep the population healthy for as long as possible, so people will be forced to keep working for as long as possible.
    2. Keep ramping the retirement age up and up and up, so that the burden of pension provision is kept sustainable.
    3. Let the population drop until we have a substantial excess of vacant properties, which should make housing affordable again, completely transforming household finances. When the surviving cohort of youngsters in 30 or 40 years' time can move out into cheap houses and flats in their early 20s, then they'll be able to afford to form households and start dropping sprogs much more easily, and the population will stop falling. Sorted.
    Let significant areas go back to the wild too.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Uni of Washington has updated its Covid model, with handy tabs enabling you to toggle between Reported and Excess deaths

    The UK seems to be one of the few countries where these totals are similar, which I guess is to our credit, tho our totals are still pretty high. However if you look at actual excess deaths, nor reported deaths, in the rest of Europe, plenty of countries are close to us, and certainly higher per capita

    Some of the data is quite startling (IF it is accurate). Russia has a reported death total of 208,000 on Worldometer. The UoW thinks the reported Russian C19 death total is closer to 450,000

    And the UoW thinks the excess death rate, in Russia, is right now 1.2 MILLION

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/russian-federation

    In a country with a fertility rate in 2018 estimated to be 1.6 born per woman, that level of death must be a worry. The latest numbers since then show the problem to have got worse:

    In 2021 the birthrate is 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020.

    In 2020 the birthrate was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

    In 2019 the birthrate was 12.482 births per 1000 people, a 2.26% decline from 2018.

    Those spaces in Russia keep getting bigger.
    I've recently been reading about the plunging birth rates in East Asia. They are extraordinary


    Japan has a birth rate of 1.36

    Taiwan has a birth rate of 1.07

    South Korea, incredibly, has a birth rate of 0.84

    This must be the lowest birth rate of any developed nation in modern history

    Of course the west has a problem with low birth rates, too, but we tend to have higher immigration, which offsets this to an extent

    In 2020 South Korea's population began to decline and unless they can reverse this plummeting birth rate their population will halve in 30-40 years, and of course become much older. It's a massive crisis waiting to happen. China is also in the same boat, just further behind in terms of disaster
    Yet where are the highest global birthrates? Africa. So in gdp terms it may actually be global growth is less in the Far East than in Africa over the rest of the century, even if the Far East obviously gets a far higher gdp per capita than Africa
    Even in Africa birth rates are beginning to drop, in some places very fast

    The 21st century might be the century when the global population of humans begins to fall

    With robots and automation, ultimately, that might not be a problem, indeed it could be a good thing

    You only have to go to a country like Egypt - population 104,000,000 - to realise that they have simply too many people. Egypt's optimum population, given its size and the area of fertile land, should be about a third of that at most?

    Cairo has gone from poor but busy city with some lush attractive areas and even nice parks and boulevards, to an absolute shit-hole, in my lifetime. Too Many People
    Not any time soon. The top 10 nations by fertility rate are all African, first is Niger at 6.8, 10th is Burkina Faso at 5.1. Nigeria is 5.3.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependencies_by_total_fertility_rate

    Africa also has young religious populations who believe in big families and supporting their elderly.

    There will still be a lot of poverty there as you say unless they advance technologically like the west and Far East which by itself reduces the need for more workers but the sheer scale of their population increase will see them also get a big rise in gdp
    But African birth rates are now falling sharply, they are just coming late to the party

    "When compared with other continents, Africa’s fertility rates of 4.5 children per woman in 2017 seem high. Indeed, it’s the highest in the world. But that figure is low compared with Africa's birthrates of previous decades. It stood at an average of 6.6 children per woman in 1980.

    "And these rates have been falling across the continent. In the Sahel, for example, the region with the highest fertility rates, the number of children per woman has dropped from 7 to 5.7 since 1980. The most spectacular drop has been in North Africa, where the rate was cut in half in 37 years, from 6 children per woman to 3."

    And still they fall


    https://www.afd.fr/en/actualites/dramatic-drop-fertility-across-africa
    Still significantly bigger than other continents though, which means Africa will still become relatively more important to the global economy and global politics than it is now
    Sure, but some of these mad extrapolations - like Nigeria will have 500m people by 2100 or whatever - are just that. Mad

    Birth rates can and do fall extremely fast as women gain access to education, careers, contraception.

    China is the maybe the most striking example. They brought in their insane 1 child policy (one of the cruellest, stupidest policy mistakes in human history?) to ward off the threat of overpopulation. Within a couple of decades they realised their error, they changed it to a 2 child policy, now 5 years later it is a 3 child policy

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-57303592

    "China has announced that it will allow couples to have up to three children, after census data showed a steep decline in birth rates."

    Too late. Chinese women don't want many kids. Their birth rate is low and declining fast.

    Perhaps, as some have said, it will soon become a 3 kids MINIMUM policy
This discussion has been closed.