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Starmer up sharply to become favourite in the next PM betting – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited October 1 in General
imageStarmer up sharply to become favourite in the next PM betting – politicalbetting.com

Although there has been no polling uplift for LAB since Starmer’s big speech on Wednesday those betting on who will be next PM have edged back to Starmer and he is now clear favourite in the “Next PM” betting.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 6,915
    Test
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,425

    Test

    Passed!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,209
    Presumably the market thinks he is more likely to lead Labour at the next election. That idiot Beth Rigby on Sky News said conferences aren't about speaking to people in the hall but speaking to people in homes around the country. Utter nonsense. They are, first and foremost, about securing your position as leader.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,320
    edited October 1
    tlg86 said:

    Presumably the market thinks he is more likely to lead Labour at the next election. That idiot Beth Rigby on Sky News said conferences aren't about speaking to people in the hall but speaking to people in homes around the country. Utter nonsense. They are, first and foremost, about securing your position as leader.

    "idiot...utter nonsense...."

    Bit harsh. The LotO has to speak to people in homes around the country whoever it is.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,256
    Is that another Smarkets bet landed?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,731
    Lay the favourite.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,209
    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    Presumably the market thinks he is more likely to lead Labour at the next election. That idiot Beth Rigby on Sky News said conferences aren't about speaking to people in the hall but speaking to people in homes around the country. Utter nonsense. They are, first and foremost, about securing your position as leader.

    "idiot...utter nonsense...."

    Bit harsh. The LotO has to speak to people in homes around the country whoever it is.
    That joke about Boris's dad being a tool maker didn't make the news (at least, not on the clips I saw). And a good job too. That sort of thing plays well to the faithful, but might not go down so well with the general public.

    Generally, the news do a fair job to all leaders by showing the middle of the road stuff on the news, but only geeks like us watch the whole thing.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 10,388
    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    So people are free to come here without limit if we concrete all over the green belt and most of the English countryside to build all the extra homes for them. A deeply unpopular proposal (and most people don't live within easy reach of AONB and National Parks, especially in London and the Home Counties

    Anabob replied:
    Back to GCSE Geography class for you!

    How about the South Downs, New Forest, Dedham Vale, Broads, Surrey Hills, North Wessex Downs, High Weald, Chilterns, Cotswolds... I mean these are just of the top of my head!

    (P.S. I absolutely agree with you about the green belt however!)
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,470
    I wouldn't put a penny on Starmer.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,425
    tlg86 said:

    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    Presumably the market thinks he is more likely to lead Labour at the next election. That idiot Beth Rigby on Sky News said conferences aren't about speaking to people in the hall but speaking to people in homes around the country. Utter nonsense. They are, first and foremost, about securing your position as leader.

    "idiot...utter nonsense...."

    Bit harsh. The LotO has to speak to people in homes around the country whoever it is.
    That joke about Boris's dad being a tool maker didn't make the news (at least, not on the clips I saw). And a good job too. That sort of thing plays well to the faithful, but might not go down so well with the general public.

    Generally, the news do a fair job to all leaders by showing the middle of the road stuff on the news, but only geeks like us watch the whole thing.
    I think you slipped in a spurious 'maker' there, just sayin.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,403

    Lay the favourite.

    Indeed he has virtually no chance
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,209

    tlg86 said:

    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    Presumably the market thinks he is more likely to lead Labour at the next election. That idiot Beth Rigby on Sky News said conferences aren't about speaking to people in the hall but speaking to people in homes around the country. Utter nonsense. They are, first and foremost, about securing your position as leader.

    "idiot...utter nonsense...."

    Bit harsh. The LotO has to speak to people in homes around the country whoever it is.
    That joke about Boris's dad being a tool maker didn't make the news (at least, not on the clips I saw). And a good job too. That sort of thing plays well to the faithful, but might not go down so well with the general public.

    Generally, the news do a fair job to all leaders by showing the middle of the road stuff on the news, but only geeks like us watch the whole thing.
    I think you slipped in a spurious 'maker' there, just sayin.
    Bit harsh on Stanley.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,425
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    Presumably the market thinks he is more likely to lead Labour at the next election. That idiot Beth Rigby on Sky News said conferences aren't about speaking to people in the hall but speaking to people in homes around the country. Utter nonsense. They are, first and foremost, about securing your position as leader.

    "idiot...utter nonsense...."

    Bit harsh. The LotO has to speak to people in homes around the country whoever it is.
    That joke about Boris's dad being a tool maker didn't make the news (at least, not on the clips I saw). And a good job too. That sort of thing plays well to the faithful, but might not go down so well with the general public.

    Generally, the news do a fair job to all leaders by showing the middle of the road stuff on the news, but only geeks like us watch the whole thing.
    I think you slipped in a spurious 'maker' there, just sayin.
    Bit harsh on Stanley.
    You think?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,320
    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Morning. Could you please let me know what the best Radiohead album is.

    TIA

    Asking FAF.

    Obvs.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,256
    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Boris will not want to go into an election he thinks he will lose, and imo will step down first. Nor will the party want Boris to lead them into a bad election. Ask Mrs Thatcher.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 89,158
    edited October 1
    Starmer certainly has a vastly better chance of becoming PM than Labour has of winning a majority.

    While Labour needs to gain 124 seats at the next general election to win an overall majority, Starmer only needs to gain about 55 Tory seats to become PM if the SNP and LDs and PC and SDLP and Alliance and Greens give him confidence and supply.

    Of course if the SNP and LDs pick up some Tory seats that 55 seat target is even lower for Starmer
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 5,982
    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Would Starmer necessarily go after a "good" result for Labour that left the Tories in power but with a reduced majority? Like a 1987 result, when Kinnock stayed to fight the next election? Would Johnson be forced out then too? Thatcher stayed another 3 years and without the poll tax maybe she would have fought an election in 1991 or 1992. And Johnson has suggested he wants a decade in power (God help us). So the 25% chance might not just be covering the scenario you sketch out, but also a scenario where Starmer beats Johnson in a second election in 2028 or something.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 13,091

    Test

    Passed!
    Now go drive a fuel tanker
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,852

    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Would Starmer necessarily go after a "good" result for Labour that left the Tories in power but with a reduced majority? Like a 1987 result, when Kinnock stayed to fight the next election? Would Johnson be forced out then too? Thatcher stayed another 3 years and without the poll tax maybe she would have fought an election in 1991 or 1992. And Johnson has suggested he wants a decade in power (God help us). So the 25% chance might not just be covering the scenario you sketch out, but also a scenario where Starmer beats Johnson in a second election in 2028 or something.
    You are correct that that is also a possibility.

    However, I think it's also pretty unlikely that (in that scenario) Johnson ran to 2028.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,613
    edited October 1

    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    So people are free to come here without limit if we concrete all over the green belt and most of the English countryside to build all the extra homes for them. A deeply unpopular proposal (and most people don't live within easy reach of AONB and National Parks, especially in London and the Home Counties

    Anabob replied:
    Back to GCSE Geography class for you!

    How about the South Downs, New Forest, Dedham Vale, Broads, Surrey Hills, North Wessex Downs, High Weald, Chilterns, Cotswolds... I mean these are just of the top of my head!

    (P.S. I absolutely agree with you about the green belt however!)

    Re HYFD's complaint, he did say "especially" not "exclusively". In any case, as any fule kno there are absolutely no house-owning London-commuting Tory voters in the South Downs NP. They are all LD Nimbies like HYUFD in places like Petersfield. The psephology changes like magic once the EMU train trundles northward along the Portsmouth Direct line over the border ito Haslemere in Surrey.

    I blame the voltage fluctuations myself.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 89,158

    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    So people are free to come here without limit if we concrete all over the green belt and most of the English countryside to build all the extra homes for them. A deeply unpopular proposal (and most people don't live within easy reach of AONB and National Parks, especially in London and the Home Counties

    Anabob replied:
    Back to GCSE Geography class for you!

    How about the South Downs, New Forest, Dedham Vale, Broads, Surrey Hills, North Wessex Downs, High Weald, Chilterns, Cotswolds... I mean these are just of the top of my head!

    (P.S. I absolutely agree with you about the green belt however!)

    Of those only the Surrey Hills is fully in the Home Counties, of the rest part of the Chilterns and Dedham Vale and High Weald and a tiny fraction of the North Wessex Downs and no National Parks are in London and the Home Counties (ie Essex, Hertfordshire, Bucks, Kent, Surrey and Berkshire).

    Glad we agree on the green belt though
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,256
    OT Apple pay users, be careful.

    Apple's digital wallet Apple Pay will pay whatever amount is demanded of it, without authorization, if configured for transit mode with a Visa card, and exposed to a hostile contactless reader.

    Boffins at the University of Birmingham and the University of Surrey in England have managed to find a way to remove the contactless payment limit on iPhones with Apple Pay and Visa cards if "Express Transit" mode has been enabled.

    https://www.theregister.com/2021/09/30/apple_pay_contactless_visa_fraud/

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,209
    Next FM betting:

    Angus Robertson, SNP 7/2
    Kate Forbes, SNP 9/2
    John Swinney, SNP 8/1
    Humza Yousaf, SNP 12/1
    Anas Sarwar, Lab 25/2
    Joanna Cherry, SNP 29/2
    Keith Brown, SNP 31/2
    Douglas Ross, Con 18/1

    Alex Cole-Hamilton, LD 39/1

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,209

    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Would Starmer necessarily go after a "good" result for Labour that left the Tories in power but with a reduced majority? Like a 1987 result, when Kinnock stayed to fight the next election? Would Johnson be forced out then too? Thatcher stayed another 3 years and without the poll tax maybe she would have fought an election in 1991 or 1992. And Johnson has suggested he wants a decade in power (God help us). So the 25% chance might not just be covering the scenario you sketch out, but also a scenario where Starmer beats Johnson in a second election in 2028 or something.
    I think he'll resign if he doesn't make it in 2024 as he'll be 62. He'd be 67 by the time he was likely to become PM after the next election and I just don't think he'd fancy it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,833
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    So people are free to come here without limit if we concrete all over the green belt and most of the English countryside to build all the extra homes for them. A deeply unpopular proposal (and most people don't live within easy reach of AONB and National Parks, especially in London and the Home Counties

    Anabob replied:
    Back to GCSE Geography class for you!

    How about the South Downs, New Forest, Dedham Vale, Broads, Surrey Hills, North Wessex Downs, High Weald, Chilterns, Cotswolds... I mean these are just of the top of my head!

    (P.S. I absolutely agree with you about the green belt however!)

    Re HYFD's complaint, he did say "especially" not "exclusively". In any case, as any fule kno there are absolutely no house-owning London-commuting Tory voters in the South Downs NP. They are all LD Nimbies like HYUFD in places like Petersfield. The psephology changes like magic once the EMU train trundles northward along the Portsmouth Direct line over the border ito Haslemere in Surrey.

    I blame the voltage fluctuations myself.
    "voltage fluctuations" - pseudo science

    Everyone knows it is the variations in fluoridation of the water.

    CRM 114 Discriminator - set to "OPE"
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 4,026
    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Three ways that can happen.

    One is that Bozza's next campaign is overconfident and bombs as badly as May did in 2017.

    Next, things go so wrong for the government that being Boris's successor becomes a poisoned chalice that nobody sensible wants. That sort of kept Major in place between '95 and '97. The flaw with that is that I don't see BoJo having the sense of duty to stay on once everyone starts being nasty to him.

    Third is that the equal pulls of Sunak and Truss trying to depose him (sorry, "friends of Sunak and Truss") create a strange equilibrium that stops the Bozzmeister falling.

    All possible, I guess. But not 25% possible.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,852
    edited October 1
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Morning. Could you please let me know what the best Radiohead album is.

    TIA

    Asking FAF.

    Obvs.
    Well, I would do it in reverse: which Radiohead albums are not good?

    And there's really only one "bad" Radiohead album - Pablo Honey. And that's not actually bad, just immature.

    You then have two "middling" Radiohead albums - The Bends and Hail to the Thief. Both have their moments, but both do not reach the heights of some other albums.

    Then there are the "great, but not the greatest" albums - The King of Limbs, Amnesiac, A Moon Shaped Pool. Some really cracking songs on those albums: Present Tense, Lotus Flower, and I Might Be Wrong being particularly great examples.

    And then you have the Holy Trio: OK Computer, Kid A and In Rainbows. I am particularly fond of the last of these, but you can make a case for any of them to be Radiohead's GOAT.

    My faves from those: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWBRnDK_AE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXl0F9oF92E, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYWYWPc9HU, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQD1QiQ9o4
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,256
    Soldiers to spy on citizens. Eek.

    The Ministry of Defence has published a data strategy that calls on the British armed forces to make better use of its "enduring strategic asset" – by spying on social media and dobbing in dissenters to local councils.

    In a move bound to fuel tinfoil hat-wearing conspiracy theorists, the MoD's Data Strategy for Defence document published this week says the military ought to be carrying out "Automated scanning of social media platforms" to detect "change in population sentiment."

    "Decision making is enhanced by local surveillance of groups of interest," notes the strategy document, adding that spying on irritated citizens' Facebook rants helps "local authorities" impose "heightened readiness measures".

    Nowhere does the document explain why a strategy paper has gone so far off the beaten track that it promotes collecting data the MoD doesn't have and using it for decidedly non-military purposes.

    https://www.theregister.com/2021/09/30/mod_data_strategy_social_media_surveillance/

    MoD paper at
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/data-strategy-for-defence/data-strategy-for-defence
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,852

    I wouldn't put a penny on Starmer.

    Not even at 10,000-1?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,256
    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,597

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Does it matter? How accurately is it being measured?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,731
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BREAKING: The UK is facing a Christmas this year without pigs in blankets due to a shortage of staff
    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1443881748270551044?s=20

    Presumably this is just for shop bought versions; I assume a shortage of sausages or bacon would have been reported more widely.
    There seems to be a shortage of abbatoir workers all round at present, some may well face a nut roast Christmas even if they are meat eaters
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58749841
    Or just buy imported meat.

    Not the end of the world either way. Meat is meat.
    British producers thank you for your support ! Next you’ll be spinning the devastating losses incurred by British fisheries into a positive .
    I will say the same for fisheries as I say for farming, driver's salaries or anything else ... Let the market sort it out.

    If our fishermen have a competitive advantage then great, exercise it, if not then c'est la vie.
    The fisheries have been screwed because of Bozos deal . The NTBs in that deal is what has caused all the issues . You seem happy to see many sectors go to the wall which is rather unpatriotic given I thought voting Brexit was a badge of patriotism and all Remainers like myself were allegedly not patriotic enough !
    Philip Thompson is a libertarian free trader who I believe wants global free trade with no tariffs and customs barriers anywhere and no state subsidies for farming or industry.

    Though I don't think he has gone so far as to support free movement globally and accepts Boris' points system for migrants
    ... yes a strange ommission to his liberatarian ideals.
    Why's it strange?

    I've said I don't care if people are free to come here so long as we eliminate the green belt and people are free to build too. Since we don't have free construction, we can't justify free movement either. The two need to go hand-in-hand.

    I back free construction though. I back the elimination of the green belt and the elimination of planning permission (though I'd keep restrictions exclusively for AONBs etc).
    So people are free to come here without limit if we concrete all over the green belt and most of the English countryside to build all the extra homes for them. A deeply unpopular proposal (and most people don't live within easy reach of AONB and National Parks, especially in London and the Home Counties)
    Now here is a dilemma as I agree with both @HYUFD and @Philip_Thompson (I know I'm a LD and so you should expect nothing different that I support both sides of the argument).

    I believe in free movement of goods and labour in theory. However with different countries at different levels of prosperity that is not possible with labour as there would be mass migration. There is not the infrastructure to support that and I don't want the greenbelt destroyed. Once we do it's gone forever.

    I did like what we had in the EU. Introducing countries under but close to our level of prosperity, causing immigration and bringing those countries up to our level fairly quickly after which the movement would balance out nicely.
    Fairly balanced and indeed but the problem is that the EU countries aren't quickly coming up to our level of prosperity.

    Maybe it was balancing out until the 90s, but our population has grown by over 10 million within a generation and that wasn't slowing down. Now as I've said repeatedly I don't care if we have population growth so long as we have the construction to match it, but we never did which is why house price to earnings ratio when from 3.5x in 2003 before Eastern accession to ~6-7x just a few years later.

    Do you think its fair to link the concepts of free movement with free construction? If we aren't going to have one, how can we justify the other?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 13,091

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Best in the world.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,731

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Best in the world.
    It certainly is,, its excellent. 👍
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,852
    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Morning. Could you please let me know what the best Radiohead album is.

    TIA

    Asking FAF.

    Obvs.
    Well, I would do it in reverse: which Radiohead albums are not good?

    And there's really only one "bad" Radiohead album - Pablo Honey. And that's not actually bad, just immature.

    You then have two "middling" Radiohead albums - The Bends and Hail to the Thief. Both have their moments, but both do not reach the heights of some other albums.

    Then there are the "great, but not the greatest" albums - The King of Limbs, Amnesiac, A Moon Shaped Pool. Some really cracking songs on those albums: Present Tense, Lotus Flower, and I Might Be Wrong being particularly great examples.

    And then you have the Holy Trio: OK Computer, Kid A and In Rainbows. I am particularly fond of the last of these, but you can make a case for any of them to be Radiohead's GOAT.

    My faves from those: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWBRnDK_AE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXl0F9oF92E, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYWYWPc9HU, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQD1QiQ9o4
    I should have included How to Disappear Completely (from Kid A), which Thom Yorke regards as the best song Radiohead ever made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W6HhdqA95w
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 15,836

    Best in the world.

    ...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,320
    edited October 1
    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Morning. Could you please let me know what the best Radiohead album is.

    TIA

    Asking FAF.

    Obvs.
    Well, I would do it in reverse: which Radiohead albums are not good?

    And there's really only one "bad" Radiohead album - Pablo Honey. And that's not actually bad, just immature.

    You then have two "middling" Radiohead albums - The Bends and Hail to the Thief. Both have their moments, but both do not reach the heights of some other albums.

    Then there are the "great, but not the greatest" albums - The King of Limbs, Amnesiac, A Moon Shaped Pool. Some really cracking songs on those albums: Present Tense, Lotus Flower, and I Might Be Wrong being particularly great examples.

    And then you have the Holy Trio: OK Computer, Kid A and In Rainbows. I am particularly fond of the last of these, but you can make a case for any of them to be Radiohead's GOAT.

    My faves from those: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWBRnDK_AE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXl0F9oF92E, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYWYWPc9HU, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQD1QiQ9o4
    Excellent thanks.

    I'll tell my "friend".

    *sticks In Rainbows on Amazon Music as am working*

    Edit: *takes off, sadly, give 'em enough rope*

    Edit II: after Tommy Gun, obvs.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,474

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Best in the world.
    Would you rather go into the winter with those infections in front of us or behind us?
  • Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Does it matter? How accurately is it being measured?
    Ours is being measured by the gold standard that is the ONS.

    Always amuses my foreign friends and colleagues the head of UK Statistics Authority can publicly chastise the PM downwards for misusing official stats.
  • Anyhoo, I'm getting my booster jab this weekend.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,852

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BREAKING: The UK is facing a Christmas this year without pigs in blankets due to a shortage of staff
    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1443881748270551044?s=20

    Presumably this is just for shop bought versions; I assume a shortage of sausages or bacon would have been reported more widely.
    There seems to be a shortage of abbatoir workers all round at present, some may well face a nut roast Christmas even if they are meat eaters
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58749841
    Or just buy imported meat.

    Not the end of the world either way. Meat is meat.
    British producers thank you for your support ! Next you’ll be spinning the devastating losses incurred by British fisheries into a positive .
    I will say the same for fisheries as I say for farming, driver's salaries or anything else ... Let the market sort it out.

    If our fishermen have a competitive advantage then great, exercise it, if not then c'est la vie.
    The fisheries have been screwed because of Bozos deal . The NTBs in that deal is what has caused all the issues . You seem happy to see many sectors go to the wall which is rather unpatriotic given I thought voting Brexit was a badge of patriotism and all Remainers like myself were allegedly not patriotic enough !
    Philip Thompson is a libertarian free trader who I believe wants global free trade with no tariffs and customs barriers anywhere and no state subsidies for farming or industry.

    Though I don't think he has gone so far as to support free movement globally and accepts Boris' points system for migrants
    ... yes a strange ommission to his liberatarian ideals.
    Why's it strange?

    I've said I don't care if people are free to come here so long as we eliminate the green belt and people are free to build too. Since we don't have free construction, we can't justify free movement either. The two need to go hand-in-hand.

    I back free construction though. I back the elimination of the green belt and the elimination of planning permission (though I'd keep restrictions exclusively for AONBs etc).
    So people are free to come here without limit if we concrete all over the green belt and most of the English countryside to build all the extra homes for them. A deeply unpopular proposal (and most people don't live within easy reach of AONB and National Parks, especially in London and the Home Counties)
    Now here is a dilemma as I agree with both @HYUFD and @Philip_Thompson (I know I'm a LD and so you should expect nothing different that I support both sides of the argument).

    I believe in free movement of goods and labour in theory. However with different countries at different levels of prosperity that is not possible with labour as there would be mass migration. There is not the infrastructure to support that and I don't want the greenbelt destroyed. Once we do it's gone forever.

    I did like what we had in the EU. Introducing countries under but close to our level of prosperity, causing immigration and bringing those countries up to our level fairly quickly after which the movement would balance out nicely.
    Fairly balanced and indeed but the problem is that the EU countries aren't quickly coming up to our level of prosperity.

    Maybe it was balancing out until the 90s, but our population has grown by over 10 million within a generation and that wasn't slowing down. Now as I've said repeatedly I don't care if we have population growth so long as we have the construction to match it, but we never did which is why house price to earnings ratio when from 3.5x in 2003 before Eastern accession to ~6-7x just a few years later.

    Do you think its fair to link the concepts of free movement with free construction? If we aren't going to have one, how can we justify the other?
    I'm not sure your memory of UK house prices to earnings ratios is entirely accurate:


  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,209
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Morning. Could you please let me know what the best Radiohead album is.

    TIA

    Asking FAF.

    Obvs.
    Well, I would do it in reverse: which Radiohead albums are not good?

    And there's really only one "bad" Radiohead album - Pablo Honey. And that's not actually bad, just immature.

    You then have two "middling" Radiohead albums - The Bends and Hail to the Thief. Both have their moments, but both do not reach the heights of some other albums.

    Then there are the "great, but not the greatest" albums - The King of Limbs, Amnesiac, A Moon Shaped Pool. Some really cracking songs on those albums: Present Tense, Lotus Flower, and I Might Be Wrong being particularly great examples.

    And then you have the Holy Trio: OK Computer, Kid A and In Rainbows. I am particularly fond of the last of these, but you can make a case for any of them to be Radiohead's GOAT.

    My faves from those: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWBRnDK_AE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXl0F9oF92E, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYWYWPc9HU, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQD1QiQ9o4
    I should have included How to Disappear Completely (from Kid A), which Thom Yorke regards as the best song Radiohead ever made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W6HhdqA95w
    Only a complete **** would spell Tom with an h.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 29,074
    Well, that's a relief. We don't need to worry about 'levelling up' meaning that London gets downgraded:

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1443932852123484169
  • tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Morning. Could you please let me know what the best Radiohead album is.

    TIA

    Asking FAF.

    Obvs.
    Well, I would do it in reverse: which Radiohead albums are not good?

    And there's really only one "bad" Radiohead album - Pablo Honey. And that's not actually bad, just immature.

    You then have two "middling" Radiohead albums - The Bends and Hail to the Thief. Both have their moments, but both do not reach the heights of some other albums.

    Then there are the "great, but not the greatest" albums - The King of Limbs, Amnesiac, A Moon Shaped Pool. Some really cracking songs on those albums: Present Tense, Lotus Flower, and I Might Be Wrong being particularly great examples.

    And then you have the Holy Trio: OK Computer, Kid A and In Rainbows. I am particularly fond of the last of these, but you can make a case for any of them to be Radiohead's GOAT.

    My faves from those: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWBRnDK_AE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXl0F9oF92E, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYWYWPc9HU, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQD1QiQ9o4
    I should have included How to Disappear Completely (from Kid A), which Thom Yorke regards as the best song Radiohead ever made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W6HhdqA95w
    Only a complete **** would spell Tom with an h.
    That's nearly as bad as pronouncing surnames that sound nothing like how they are spelled.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,256

    Anyhoo, I'm getting my booster jab this weekend.

    Not combined with a flu jab?
  • Anyhoo, I'm getting my booster jab this weekend.

    Not combined with a flu jab?
    Nope, getting that separately.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,852
    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Morning. Could you please let me know what the best Radiohead album is.

    TIA

    Asking FAF.

    Obvs.
    Well, I would do it in reverse: which Radiohead albums are not good?

    And there's really only one "bad" Radiohead album - Pablo Honey. And that's not actually bad, just immature.

    You then have two "middling" Radiohead albums - The Bends and Hail to the Thief. Both have their moments, but both do not reach the heights of some other albums.

    Then there are the "great, but not the greatest" albums - The King of Limbs, Amnesiac, A Moon Shaped Pool. Some really cracking songs on those albums: Present Tense, Lotus Flower, and I Might Be Wrong being particularly great examples.

    And then you have the Holy Trio: OK Computer, Kid A and In Rainbows. I am particularly fond of the last of these, but you can make a case for any of them to be Radiohead's GOAT.

    My faves from those: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWBRnDK_AE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXl0F9oF92E, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYWYWPc9HU, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQD1QiQ9o4
    I should have included How to Disappear Completely (from Kid A), which Thom Yorke regards as the best song Radiohead ever made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W6HhdqA95w
    Only a complete **** would spell Tom with an h.
    That's a pretty harsh thing to say about his mum.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,833

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Best in the world.
    Would you rather go into the winter with those infections in front of us or behind us?
    The issue is testing rates.

    The UK is still doing a very high rate of tests per head of population, compared with most other countries.

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-cumulative-total-tests-per-thousand-map?tab=table

    As Donald Trump observed, the more you test, the more you find.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 26,887
    I think that the markets just reflect that after last week, both via the change in nomination threshold and the reception to his speech, that Starmer will be LOTO next GE. I think Johnson could not create a coalition, so a hung Parliament puts him in Number 10, albeit in a rather unstable minority government.

    25% may be a little high as Johnson could go by choice or coup, but I think not. There is a long way to the next GE, so probably fair value at present. It might even work as a trading bet as the GE gets closer.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,597

    Well, that's a relief. We don't need to worry about 'levelling up' meaning that London gets downgraded:

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1443932852123484169

    If you are working from home may as well get the London weighting!
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 13,091

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Best in the world.
    Would you rather go into the winter with those infections in front of us or behind us?
    As the pox cases level is sustained at a continuous 30-40k new cases per day, what makes you think we will have those infections behind us?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,209
    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Morning. Could you please let me know what the best Radiohead album is.

    TIA

    Asking FAF.

    Obvs.
    Well, I would do it in reverse: which Radiohead albums are not good?

    And there's really only one "bad" Radiohead album - Pablo Honey. And that's not actually bad, just immature.

    You then have two "middling" Radiohead albums - The Bends and Hail to the Thief. Both have their moments, but both do not reach the heights of some other albums.

    Then there are the "great, but not the greatest" albums - The King of Limbs, Amnesiac, A Moon Shaped Pool. Some really cracking songs on those albums: Present Tense, Lotus Flower, and I Might Be Wrong being particularly great examples.

    And then you have the Holy Trio: OK Computer, Kid A and In Rainbows. I am particularly fond of the last of these, but you can make a case for any of them to be Radiohead's GOAT.

    My faves from those: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWBRnDK_AE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXl0F9oF92E, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYWYWPc9HU, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQD1QiQ9o4
    I should have included How to Disappear Completely (from Kid A), which Thom Yorke regards as the best song Radiohead ever made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W6HhdqA95w
    Only a complete **** would spell Tom with an h.
    That's a pretty harsh thing to say about his mum.
    Did she encourage him to spell it that way? His real name is Thomas.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,209
    edited October 1

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Morning. Could you please let me know what the best Radiohead album is.

    TIA

    Asking FAF.

    Obvs.
    Well, I would do it in reverse: which Radiohead albums are not good?

    And there's really only one "bad" Radiohead album - Pablo Honey. And that's not actually bad, just immature.

    You then have two "middling" Radiohead albums - The Bends and Hail to the Thief. Both have their moments, but both do not reach the heights of some other albums.

    Then there are the "great, but not the greatest" albums - The King of Limbs, Amnesiac, A Moon Shaped Pool. Some really cracking songs on those albums: Present Tense, Lotus Flower, and I Might Be Wrong being particularly great examples.

    And then you have the Holy Trio: OK Computer, Kid A and In Rainbows. I am particularly fond of the last of these, but you can make a case for any of them to be Radiohead's GOAT.

    My faves from those: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWBRnDK_AE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXl0F9oF92E, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYWYWPc9HU, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQD1QiQ9o4
    I should have included How to Disappear Completely (from Kid A), which Thom Yorke regards as the best song Radiohead ever made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W6HhdqA95w
    Only a complete **** would spell Tom with an h.
    That's nearly as bad as pronouncing surnames that sound nothing like how they are spelled.
    :blush:

    EDIT: To be fair, I do it because it's easier to say - three syllables as opposed to five.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 29,074

    Well, that's a relief. We don't need to worry about 'levelling up' meaning that London gets downgraded:

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1443932852123484169

    If you are working from home may as well get the London weighting!
    Yes, it's a very modern solution: just self-identify as a London worker.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 56,992
    Mr. Eagles, didn't know you were old enough for a booster.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,613

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Morning. Could you please let me know what the best Radiohead album is.

    TIA

    Asking FAF.

    Obvs.
    Well, I would do it in reverse: which Radiohead albums are not good?

    And there's really only one "bad" Radiohead album - Pablo Honey. And that's not actually bad, just immature.

    You then have two "middling" Radiohead albums - The Bends and Hail to the Thief. Both have their moments, but both do not reach the heights of some other albums.

    Then there are the "great, but not the greatest" albums - The King of Limbs, Amnesiac, A Moon Shaped Pool. Some really cracking songs on those albums: Present Tense, Lotus Flower, and I Might Be Wrong being particularly great examples.

    And then you have the Holy Trio: OK Computer, Kid A and In Rainbows. I am particularly fond of the last of these, but you can make a case for any of them to be Radiohead's GOAT.

    My faves from those: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWBRnDK_AE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXl0F9oF92E, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYWYWPc9HU, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQD1QiQ9o4
    I should have included How to Disappear Completely (from Kid A), which Thom Yorke regards as the best song Radiohead ever made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W6HhdqA95w
    Only a complete **** would spell Tom with an h.
    That's nearly as bad as pronouncing surnames that sound nothing like how they are spelled.
    Reminds me of Gerald Durrell's chimp Cholmondeley St John. Pronouncing that comnpletely confused me as a child.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 13,091

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Morning. Could you please let me know what the best Radiohead album is.

    TIA

    Asking FAF.

    Obvs.
    Well, I would do it in reverse: which Radiohead albums are not good?

    And there's really only one "bad" Radiohead album - Pablo Honey. And that's not actually bad, just immature.

    You then have two "middling" Radiohead albums - The Bends and Hail to the Thief. Both have their moments, but both do not reach the heights of some other albums.

    Then there are the "great, but not the greatest" albums - The King of Limbs, Amnesiac, A Moon Shaped Pool. Some really cracking songs on those albums: Present Tense, Lotus Flower, and I Might Be Wrong being particularly great examples.

    And then you have the Holy Trio: OK Computer, Kid A and In Rainbows. I am particularly fond of the last of these, but you can make a case for any of them to be Radiohead's GOAT.

    My faves from those: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWBRnDK_AE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXl0F9oF92E, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYWYWPc9HU, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQD1QiQ9o4
    I should have included How to Disappear Completely (from Kid A), which Thom Yorke regards as the best song Radiohead ever made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W6HhdqA95w
    Only a complete **** would spell Tom with an h.
    That's nearly as bad as pronouncing surnames that sound nothing like how they are spelled.
    "Its spelt Raymond Luxury-Yacht but it's pronounced Throatwobbler-Mangrove"
  • Mr. Eagles, didn't know you were old enough for a booster.

    I'm not, I'm at the towards the top of the vulnerable list.

    Plus, I had my second dose in March and they ensuring a six month gap between the second and booster jabs.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,833

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Does it matter? How accurately is it being measured?
    Ours is being measured by the gold standard that is the ONS.

    Always amuses my foreign friends and colleagues the head of UK Statistics Authority can publicly chastise the PM downwards for misusing official stats.
    The thing that puzzles me is how nearly no other country seems to be doing the ONS style population survey tests.

    It doesn't take a vast amount of tests, or a vast amount of money to do such a survey. And, using established, standard techniques to ensure the samples are balanced, it can give you an accurate (scientifically speaking) estimate of the actual infection levels.

    Anyone know why?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 13,091

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Best in the world.
    Would you rather go into the winter with those infections in front of us or behind us?
    The issue is testing rates.

    The UK is still doing a very high rate of tests per head of population, compared with most other countries.

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-cumulative-total-tests-per-thousand-map?tab=table

    As Donald Trump observed, the more you test, the more you find.
    Best to stop testing people. If we stop testing then there is zero covid and we can all get on with our lives!

    What do these other countries mean they won't let us in???
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,320
    OK listening to In Rainbows.

    First track (looks: 15 Step) feels like it's been on for 15 years.

    Bye all!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,474

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Best in the world.
    Would you rather go into the winter with those infections in front of us or behind us?
    As the pox cases level is sustained at a continuous 30-40k new cases per day, what makes you think we will have those infections behind us?
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

    This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,833

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Best in the world.
    Would you rather go into the winter with those infections in front of us or behind us?
    The issue is testing rates.

    The UK is still doing a very high rate of tests per head of population, compared with most other countries.

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-cumulative-total-tests-per-thousand-map?tab=table

    As Donald Trump observed, the more you test, the more you find.
    Best to stop testing people. If we stop testing then there is zero covid and we can all get on with our lives!

    What do these other countries mean they won't let us in???
    Your first sentence is what D. Trump was proposing.....

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 96,672
    edited October 1

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Does it matter? How accurately is it being measured?
    Ours is being measured by the gold standard that is the ONS.

    Always amuses my foreign friends and colleagues the head of UK Statistics Authority can publicly chastise the PM downwards for misusing official stats.
    The thing that puzzles me is how nearly no other country seems to be doing the ONS style population survey tests.

    It doesn't take a vast amount of tests, or a vast amount of money to do such a survey. And, using established, standard techniques to ensure the samples are balanced, it can give you an accurate (scientifically speaking) estimate of the actual infection levels.

    Anyone know why?
    Don't quote me on this but isn't the ONS tests linked to our sequencing/vaccine general stuff to tackle Covid-19 efforts?

    Not all countries have those facilities/requirements?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 43,684

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    5h
    We've now reached the point where the public are being advised to flag down buses to protect themselves from police officers. And the head of the Metropolitan Police remains in post. How does anyone in authority seriously think this is a sustainable position.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,474

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Best in the world.
    Would you rather go into the winter with those infections in front of us or behind us?
    The issue is testing rates.

    The UK is still doing a very high rate of tests per head of population, compared with most other countries.

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-cumulative-total-tests-per-thousand-map?tab=table

    As Donald Trump observed, the more you test, the more you find.
    Best to stop testing people. If we stop testing then there is zero covid and we can all get on with our lives!

    What do these other countries mean they won't let us in???
    Look at yesterday's figures:

    UK (pop 68m)
    Cases: +36,480
    Deaths: +137

    Romania (pop 19m)
    Cases: +12,032
    Deaths: +176
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,731
    rcs1000 said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BREAKING: The UK is facing a Christmas this year without pigs in blankets due to a shortage of staff
    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1443881748270551044?s=20

    Presumably this is just for shop bought versions; I assume a shortage of sausages or bacon would have been reported more widely.
    There seems to be a shortage of abbatoir workers all round at present, some may well face a nut roast Christmas even if they are meat eaters
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58749841
    Or just buy imported meat.

    Not the end of the world either way. Meat is meat.
    British producers thank you for your support ! Next you’ll be spinning the devastating losses incurred by British fisheries into a positive .
    I will say the same for fisheries as I say for farming, driver's salaries or anything else ... Let the market sort it out.

    If our fishermen have a competitive advantage then great, exercise it, if not then c'est la vie.
    The fisheries have been screwed because of Bozos deal . The NTBs in that deal is what has caused all the issues . You seem happy to see many sectors go to the wall which is rather unpatriotic given I thought voting Brexit was a badge of patriotism and all Remainers like myself were allegedly not patriotic enough !
    Philip Thompson is a libertarian free trader who I believe wants global free trade with no tariffs and customs barriers anywhere and no state subsidies for farming or industry.

    Though I don't think he has gone so far as to support free movement globally and accepts Boris' points system for migrants
    ... yes a strange ommission to his liberatarian ideals.
    Why's it strange?

    I've said I don't care if people are free to come here so long as we eliminate the green belt and people are free to build too. Since we don't have free construction, we can't justify free movement either. The two need to go hand-in-hand.

    I back free construction though. I back the elimination of the green belt and the elimination of planning permission (though I'd keep restrictions exclusively for AONBs etc).
    So people are free to come here without limit if we concrete all over the green belt and most of the English countryside to build all the extra homes for them. A deeply unpopular proposal (and most people don't live within easy reach of AONB and National Parks, especially in London and the Home Counties)
    Now here is a dilemma as I agree with both @HYUFD and @Philip_Thompson (I know I'm a LD and so you should expect nothing different that I support both sides of the argument).

    I believe in free movement of goods and labour in theory. However with different countries at different levels of prosperity that is not possible with labour as there would be mass migration. There is not the infrastructure to support that and I don't want the greenbelt destroyed. Once we do it's gone forever.

    I did like what we had in the EU. Introducing countries under but close to our level of prosperity, causing immigration and bringing those countries up to our level fairly quickly after which the movement would balance out nicely.
    Fairly balanced and indeed but the problem is that the EU countries aren't quickly coming up to our level of prosperity.

    Maybe it was balancing out until the 90s, but our population has grown by over 10 million within a generation and that wasn't slowing down. Now as I've said repeatedly I don't care if we have population growth so long as we have the construction to match it, but we never did which is why house price to earnings ratio when from 3.5x in 2003 before Eastern accession to ~6-7x just a few years later.

    Do you think its fair to link the concepts of free movement with free construction? If we aren't going to have one, how can we justify the other?
    I'm not sure your memory of UK house prices to earnings ratios is entirely accurate:


    You're right I muddled up different ratios - but still the reality was bad enough.

    Look at that steep climb following EU expansion. Which predated interest rate cuts a few years later.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 15,836
    London Mayor Sadiq Khan says he's "confident" Cressida Dick is the "right person to bring about the transformation needed" in the Met Police

    https://bbc.in/3kZ6mAD https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1443929971161018370/video/1
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,833

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Morning. Could you please let me know what the best Radiohead album is.

    TIA

    Asking FAF.

    Obvs.
    Well, I would do it in reverse: which Radiohead albums are not good?

    And there's really only one "bad" Radiohead album - Pablo Honey. And that's not actually bad, just immature.

    You then have two "middling" Radiohead albums - The Bends and Hail to the Thief. Both have their moments, but both do not reach the heights of some other albums.

    Then there are the "great, but not the greatest" albums - The King of Limbs, Amnesiac, A Moon Shaped Pool. Some really cracking songs on those albums: Present Tense, Lotus Flower, and I Might Be Wrong being particularly great examples.

    And then you have the Holy Trio: OK Computer, Kid A and In Rainbows. I am particularly fond of the last of these, but you can make a case for any of them to be Radiohead's GOAT.

    My faves from those: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWBRnDK_AE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXl0F9oF92E, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYWYWPc9HU, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQD1QiQ9o4
    I should have included How to Disappear Completely (from Kid A), which Thom Yorke regards as the best song Radiohead ever made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W6HhdqA95w
    Only a complete **** would spell Tom with an h.
    That's nearly as bad as pronouncing surnames that sound nothing like how they are spelled.
    "Its spelt Raymond Luxury-Yacht but it's pronounced Throatwobbler-Mangrove"
    I am trying to remember the context of the skit - aristocrat states that his name is {insert all the german and hyphens here} - "pronounced 'Smith'"
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,597


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    5h
    We've now reached the point where the public are being advised to flag down buses to protect themselves from police officers. And the head of the Metropolitan Police remains in post. How does anyone in authority seriously think this is a sustainable position.

    Indeed, it is silly, pretty sure no-one has successfully flagged down a bus in the last decade....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 43,684

    Philip Collins
    @PhilipJCollins1

    I always love it when Tories finally wake up to problems we've known about for ever and then blithely assume they'll fix them in no time. Amazing naivete.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,731

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Best in the world.
    Would you rather go into the winter with those infections in front of us or behind us?
    The issue is testing rates.

    The UK is still doing a very high rate of tests per head of population, compared with most other countries.

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-cumulative-total-tests-per-thousand-map?tab=table

    As Donald Trump observed, the more you test, the more you find.
    Best to stop testing people. If we stop testing then there is zero covid and we can all get on with our lives!

    What do these other countries mean they won't let us in???
    Why should we care what they do or do not allow? But yes, stopping testing is what almost every other nation has done relative to what we're doing.

    Mass testing for a virus we're vaccinated against is beyond ridiculous now. Complete waste of money, its time to stop it and get on with our lives.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 26,887

    Well, that's a relief. We don't need to worry about 'levelling up' meaning that London gets downgraded:

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1443932852123484169

    It is pretty inevitable that the work by euro civil servants being onshored would mean that we need more here. That's even before we start new customs staff etc.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 96,672
    edited October 1
    Carnyx said:

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Morning. Could you please let me know what the best Radiohead album is.

    TIA

    Asking FAF.

    Obvs.
    Well, I would do it in reverse: which Radiohead albums are not good?

    And there's really only one "bad" Radiohead album - Pablo Honey. And that's not actually bad, just immature.

    You then have two "middling" Radiohead albums - The Bends and Hail to the Thief. Both have their moments, but both do not reach the heights of some other albums.

    Then there are the "great, but not the greatest" albums - The King of Limbs, Amnesiac, A Moon Shaped Pool. Some really cracking songs on those albums: Present Tense, Lotus Flower, and I Might Be Wrong being particularly great examples.

    And then you have the Holy Trio: OK Computer, Kid A and In Rainbows. I am particularly fond of the last of these, but you can make a case for any of them to be Radiohead's GOAT.

    My faves from those: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWBRnDK_AE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXl0F9oF92E, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYWYWPc9HU, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQD1QiQ9o4
    I should have included How to Disappear Completely (from Kid A), which Thom Yorke regards as the best song Radiohead ever made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W6HhdqA95w
    Only a complete **** would spell Tom with an h.
    That's nearly as bad as pronouncing surnames that sound nothing like how they are spelled.
    Reminds me of Gerald Durrell's chimp Cholmondeley St John. Pronouncing that comnpletely confused me as a child.
    The inconsistency of pronouncing 'St John' really irked me.

    Nearly as much as the inconsistency of St. James' Park, St James Park, and St James's Park.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_James'_Park

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_James_Park_(Exeter)

    https://www.royalparks.org.uk/parks/st-jamess-park
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 20,671
    Scott_xP said:

    London Mayor Sadiq Khan says he's "confident" Cressida Dick is the "right person to bring about the transformation needed" in the Met Police

    https://bbc.in/3kZ6mAD https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1443929971161018370/video/1

    Khan is a waste of space.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,731
    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Morning. Could you please let me know what the best Radiohead album is.

    TIA

    Asking FAF.

    Obvs.
    Well, I would do it in reverse: which Radiohead albums are not good?

    And there's really only one "bad" Radiohead album - Pablo Honey. And that's not actually bad, just immature.

    You then have two "middling" Radiohead albums - The Bends and Hail to the Thief. Both have their moments, but both do not reach the heights of some other albums.

    Then there are the "great, but not the greatest" albums - The King of Limbs, Amnesiac, A Moon Shaped Pool. Some really cracking songs on those albums: Present Tense, Lotus Flower, and I Might Be Wrong being particularly great examples.

    And then you have the Holy Trio: OK Computer, Kid A and In Rainbows. I am particularly fond of the last of these, but you can make a case for any of them to be Radiohead's GOAT.

    My faves from those: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWBRnDK_AE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXl0F9oF92E, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYWYWPc9HU, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQD1QiQ9o4
    I should have included How to Disappear Completely (from Kid A), which Thom Yorke regards as the best song Radiohead ever made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W6HhdqA95w
    Only a complete **** would spell Tom with an h.
    That's a pretty harsh thing to say about his mum.
    Did she encourage him to spell it that way? His real name is Thomas.
    Shortening Thomas to Thom is as absurd as shortening Anthony to Thony.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,852

    rcs1000 said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BREAKING: The UK is facing a Christmas this year without pigs in blankets due to a shortage of staff
    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1443881748270551044?s=20

    Presumably this is just for shop bought versions; I assume a shortage of sausages or bacon would have been reported more widely.
    There seems to be a shortage of abbatoir workers all round at present, some may well face a nut roast Christmas even if they are meat eaters
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58749841
    Or just buy imported meat.

    Not the end of the world either way. Meat is meat.
    British producers thank you for your support ! Next you’ll be spinning the devastating losses incurred by British fisheries into a positive .
    I will say the same for fisheries as I say for farming, driver's salaries or anything else ... Let the market sort it out.

    If our fishermen have a competitive advantage then great, exercise it, if not then c'est la vie.
    The fisheries have been screwed because of Bozos deal . The NTBs in that deal is what has caused all the issues . You seem happy to see many sectors go to the wall which is rather unpatriotic given I thought voting Brexit was a badge of patriotism and all Remainers like myself were allegedly not patriotic enough !
    Philip Thompson is a libertarian free trader who I believe wants global free trade with no tariffs and customs barriers anywhere and no state subsidies for farming or industry.

    Though I don't think he has gone so far as to support free movement globally and accepts Boris' points system for migrants
    ... yes a strange ommission to his liberatarian ideals.
    Why's it strange?

    I've said I don't care if people are free to come here so long as we eliminate the green belt and people are free to build too. Since we don't have free construction, we can't justify free movement either. The two need to go hand-in-hand.

    I back free construction though. I back the elimination of the green belt and the elimination of planning permission (though I'd keep restrictions exclusively for AONBs etc).
    So people are free to come here without limit if we concrete all over the green belt and most of the English countryside to build all the extra homes for them. A deeply unpopular proposal (and most people don't live within easy reach of AONB and National Parks, especially in London and the Home Counties)
    Now here is a dilemma as I agree with both @HYUFD and @Philip_Thompson (I know I'm a LD and so you should expect nothing different that I support both sides of the argument).

    I believe in free movement of goods and labour in theory. However with different countries at different levels of prosperity that is not possible with labour as there would be mass migration. There is not the infrastructure to support that and I don't want the greenbelt destroyed. Once we do it's gone forever.

    I did like what we had in the EU. Introducing countries under but close to our level of prosperity, causing immigration and bringing those countries up to our level fairly quickly after which the movement would balance out nicely.
    Fairly balanced and indeed but the problem is that the EU countries aren't quickly coming up to our level of prosperity.

    Maybe it was balancing out until the 90s, but our population has grown by over 10 million within a generation and that wasn't slowing down. Now as I've said repeatedly I don't care if we have population growth so long as we have the construction to match it, but we never did which is why house price to earnings ratio when from 3.5x in 2003 before Eastern accession to ~6-7x just a few years later.

    Do you think its fair to link the concepts of free movement with free construction? If we aren't going to have one, how can we justify the other?
    I'm not sure your memory of UK house prices to earnings ratios is entirely accurate:


    You're right I muddled up different ratios - but still the reality was bad enough.

    Look at that steep climb following EU expansion. Which predated interest rate cuts a few years later.
    In 2003, house price to earnings for the UK were just under 5, as I read the chart. And on the eve of the Brexit referendum in 2015, they were... just over 5.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,833

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Does it matter? How accurately is it being measured?
    Ours is being measured by the gold standard that is the ONS.

    Always amuses my foreign friends and colleagues the head of UK Statistics Authority can publicly chastise the PM downwards for misusing official stats.
    The thing that puzzles me is how nearly no other country seems to be doing the ONS style population survey tests.

    It doesn't take a vast amount of tests, or a vast amount of money to do such a survey. And, using established, standard techniques to ensure the samples are balanced, it can give you an accurate (scientifically speaking) estimate of the actual infection levels.

    Anyone know why?
    Don't quote me on this but isn't the ONS tests linked to our sequencing/vaccine general stuff to tackle Covid-19 efforts?

    Not all countries have those facilities/requirements?
    The ONS population survey is separate (IIRC) from the surveys relating to sequencing. The intent is purely to try and get a "true" number for COVID.

    All they are doing is testing a sample of the population. Then using standard techniques (familiar from opinion polling, for example) to correct the results to match to the population.

    There is no reason that the stats/healthcare authorities in other countries can't do the same thing.

    It's not that complex or expensive.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 13,091

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Best in the world.
    Would you rather go into the winter with those infections in front of us or behind us?
    The issue is testing rates.

    The UK is still doing a very high rate of tests per head of population, compared with most other countries.

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-cumulative-total-tests-per-thousand-map?tab=table

    As Donald Trump observed, the more you test, the more you find.
    Best to stop testing people. If we stop testing then there is zero covid and we can all get on with our lives!

    What do these other countries mean they won't let us in???
    Why should we care what they do or do not allow? But yes, stopping testing is what almost every other nation has done relative to what we're doing.

    Mass testing for a virus we're vaccinated against is beyond ridiculous now. Complete waste of money, its time to stop it and get on with our lives.
    Only two thirds of us are vaccinated.

    Question - will we be able to "get on with our lives" as a pariah nation where we need to quarantine before being allowed into other nations? Our "high risk" / "extremely high risk" status will become a ball-ache pretty quickly if most of the rest of the world has squashed Covid and we haven't.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,320
    .
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BREAKING: The UK is facing a Christmas this year without pigs in blankets due to a shortage of staff
    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1443881748270551044?s=20

    Presumably this is just for shop bought versions; I assume a shortage of sausages or bacon would have been reported more widely.
    There seems to be a shortage of abbatoir workers all round at present, some may well face a nut roast Christmas even if they are meat eaters
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58749841
    Or just buy imported meat.

    Not the end of the world either way. Meat is meat.
    British producers thank you for your support ! Next you’ll be spinning the devastating losses incurred by British fisheries into a positive .
    I will say the same for fisheries as I say for farming, driver's salaries or anything else ... Let the market sort it out.

    If our fishermen have a competitive advantage then great, exercise it, if not then c'est la vie.
    The fisheries have been screwed because of Bozos deal . The NTBs in that deal is what has caused all the issues . You seem happy to see many sectors go to the wall which is rather unpatriotic given I thought voting Brexit was a badge of patriotism and all Remainers like myself were allegedly not patriotic enough !
    Philip Thompson is a libertarian free trader who I believe wants global free trade with no tariffs and customs barriers anywhere and no state subsidies for farming or industry.

    Though I don't think he has gone so far as to support free movement globally and accepts Boris' points system for migrants
    ... yes a strange ommission to his liberatarian ideals.
    Why's it strange?

    I've said I don't care if people are free to come here so long as we eliminate the green belt and people are free to build too. Since we don't have free construction, we can't justify free movement either. The two need to go hand-in-hand.

    I back free construction though. I back the elimination of the green belt and the elimination of planning permission (though I'd keep restrictions exclusively for AONBs etc).
    So people are free to come here without limit if we concrete all over the green belt and most of the English countryside to build all the extra homes for them. A deeply unpopular proposal (and most people don't live within easy reach of AONB and National Parks, especially in London and the Home Counties)
    Now here is a dilemma as I agree with both @HYUFD and @Philip_Thompson (I know I'm a LD and so you should expect nothing different that I support both sides of the argument).

    I believe in free movement of goods and labour in theory. However with different countries at different levels of prosperity that is not possible with labour as there would be mass migration. There is not the infrastructure to support that and I don't want the greenbelt destroyed. Once we do it's gone forever.

    I did like what we had in the EU. Introducing countries under but close to our level of prosperity, causing immigration and bringing those countries up to our level fairly quickly after which the movement would balance out nicely.
    Fairly balanced and indeed but the problem is that the EU countries aren't quickly coming up to our level of prosperity.

    Maybe it was balancing out until the 90s, but our population has grown by over 10 million within a generation and that wasn't slowing down. Now as I've said repeatedly I don't care if we have population growth so long as we have the construction to match it, but we never did which is why house price to earnings ratio when from 3.5x in 2003 before Eastern accession to ~6-7x just a few years later.

    Do you think its fair to link the concepts of free movement with free construction? If we aren't going to have one, how can we justify the other?
    I'm not sure your memory of UK house prices to earnings ratios is entirely accurate:


    You're right I muddled up different ratios - but still the reality was bad enough.

    Look at that steep climb following EU expansion. Which predated interest rate cuts a few years later.
    In 2003, house price to earnings for the UK were just under 5, as I read the chart. And on the eve of the Brexit referendum in 2015, they were... just over 5.
    The big change, as I have mentioned on here before was Big Bang and when all the American IBs came over and catapulted banking into the stratosphere earnings-wise vs every other profession. That lead to the start of the house price boom which we are still seeing albeit as you note, it has fluctuated more normally since.

    And also, what mood exactly do you have to be in to appreciate In Rainbows to the maximum?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,833
    edited October 1


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    5h
    We've now reached the point where the public are being advised to flag down buses to protect themselves from police officers. And the head of the Metropolitan Police remains in post. How does anyone in authority seriously think this is a sustainable position.

    Indeed, it is silly, pretty sure no-one has successfully flagged down a bus in the last decade....
    I was told by a bus driver (TfL), not long before COVID, that stopping a bus between stops was banned.

    And that undercover bus inspectors would pull up a bus driver if he/she did it in front of them (the inspector) and pull them off the job then and there for disciplinary proceedings.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,731
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BREAKING: The UK is facing a Christmas this year without pigs in blankets due to a shortage of staff
    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1443881748270551044?s=20

    Presumably this is just for shop bought versions; I assume a shortage of sausages or bacon would have been reported more widely.
    There seems to be a shortage of abbatoir workers all round at present, some may well face a nut roast Christmas even if they are meat eaters
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58749841
    Or just buy imported meat.

    Not the end of the world either way. Meat is meat.
    British producers thank you for your support ! Next you’ll be spinning the devastating losses incurred by British fisheries into a positive .
    I will say the same for fisheries as I say for farming, driver's salaries or anything else ... Let the market sort it out.

    If our fishermen have a competitive advantage then great, exercise it, if not then c'est la vie.
    The fisheries have been screwed because of Bozos deal . The NTBs in that deal is what has caused all the issues . You seem happy to see many sectors go to the wall which is rather unpatriotic given I thought voting Brexit was a badge of patriotism and all Remainers like myself were allegedly not patriotic enough !
    Philip Thompson is a libertarian free trader who I believe wants global free trade with no tariffs and customs barriers anywhere and no state subsidies for farming or industry.

    Though I don't think he has gone so far as to support free movement globally and accepts Boris' points system for migrants
    ... yes a strange ommission to his liberatarian ideals.
    Why's it strange?

    I've said I don't care if people are free to come here so long as we eliminate the green belt and people are free to build too. Since we don't have free construction, we can't justify free movement either. The two need to go hand-in-hand.

    I back free construction though. I back the elimination of the green belt and the elimination of planning permission (though I'd keep restrictions exclusively for AONBs etc).
    So people are free to come here without limit if we concrete all over the green belt and most of the English countryside to build all the extra homes for them. A deeply unpopular proposal (and most people don't live within easy reach of AONB and National Parks, especially in London and the Home Counties)
    Now here is a dilemma as I agree with both @HYUFD and @Philip_Thompson (I know I'm a LD and so you should expect nothing different that I support both sides of the argument).

    I believe in free movement of goods and labour in theory. However with different countries at different levels of prosperity that is not possible with labour as there would be mass migration. There is not the infrastructure to support that and I don't want the greenbelt destroyed. Once we do it's gone forever.

    I did like what we had in the EU. Introducing countries under but close to our level of prosperity, causing immigration and bringing those countries up to our level fairly quickly after which the movement would balance out nicely.
    Fairly balanced and indeed but the problem is that the EU countries aren't quickly coming up to our level of prosperity.

    Maybe it was balancing out until the 90s, but our population has grown by over 10 million within a generation and that wasn't slowing down. Now as I've said repeatedly I don't care if we have population growth so long as we have the construction to match it, but we never did which is why house price to earnings ratio when from 3.5x in 2003 before Eastern accession to ~6-7x just a few years later.

    Do you think its fair to link the concepts of free movement with free construction? If we aren't going to have one, how can we justify the other?
    I'm not sure your memory of UK house prices to earnings ratios is entirely accurate:


    You're right I muddled up different ratios - but still the reality was bad enough.

    Look at that steep climb following EU expansion. Which predated interest rate cuts a few years later.
    In 2003, house price to earnings for the UK were just under 5, as I read the chart. And on the eve of the Brexit referendum in 2015, they were... just over 5.
    Now you're misreading it. They didn't reach just under 5 until ~2005, the surge happened after expansion. It was more like ~3.5 in 2003.

    And if you look at the monthly data that verifies it too.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 13,091
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:

    London Mayor Sadiq Khan says he's "confident" Cressida Dick is the "right person to bring about the transformation needed" in the Met Police

    https://bbc.in/3kZ6mAD https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1443929971161018370/video/1

    Khan is a waste of space.
    He's backing the wrong horse here, thats for sure.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,320

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Morning. Could you please let me know what the best Radiohead album is.

    TIA

    Asking FAF.

    Obvs.
    Well, I would do it in reverse: which Radiohead albums are not good?

    And there's really only one "bad" Radiohead album - Pablo Honey. And that's not actually bad, just immature.

    You then have two "middling" Radiohead albums - The Bends and Hail to the Thief. Both have their moments, but both do not reach the heights of some other albums.

    Then there are the "great, but not the greatest" albums - The King of Limbs, Amnesiac, A Moon Shaped Pool. Some really cracking songs on those albums: Present Tense, Lotus Flower, and I Might Be Wrong being particularly great examples.

    And then you have the Holy Trio: OK Computer, Kid A and In Rainbows. I am particularly fond of the last of these, but you can make a case for any of them to be Radiohead's GOAT.

    My faves from those: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWBRnDK_AE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXl0F9oF92E, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYWYWPc9HU, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQD1QiQ9o4
    I should have included How to Disappear Completely (from Kid A), which Thom Yorke regards as the best song Radiohead ever made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W6HhdqA95w
    Only a complete **** would spell Tom with an h.
    That's a pretty harsh thing to say about his mum.
    Did she encourage him to spell it that way? His real name is Thomas.
    Shortening Thomas to Thom is as absurd as shortening Anthony to Thony.
    OK Phili calm yourself.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,134
    Kavanaugh has Covid.

    He's doubled vaxxed and symptomless so probably no USA Supreme Court hilarity incoming
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,731

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Best in the world.
    Would you rather go into the winter with those infections in front of us or behind us?
    The issue is testing rates.

    The UK is still doing a very high rate of tests per head of population, compared with most other countries.

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-cumulative-total-tests-per-thousand-map?tab=table

    As Donald Trump observed, the more you test, the more you find.
    Best to stop testing people. If we stop testing then there is zero covid and we can all get on with our lives!

    What do these other countries mean they won't let us in???
    Why should we care what they do or do not allow? But yes, stopping testing is what almost every other nation has done relative to what we're doing.

    Mass testing for a virus we're vaccinated against is beyond ridiculous now. Complete waste of money, its time to stop it and get on with our lives.
    Only two thirds of us are vaccinated.

    Question - will we be able to "get on with our lives" as a pariah nation where we need to quarantine before being allowed into other nations? Our "high risk" / "extremely high risk" status will become a ball-ache pretty quickly if most of the rest of the world has squashed Covid and we haven't.
    Everyone adult who wants to be vaccinated is double-vaccinated by now.

    Yes we can get on with our lives. "Squashing" Covid is a pipe-dream unless you really mean "stop testing for Covid and declare it squashed".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,833

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:

    London Mayor Sadiq Khan says he's "confident" Cressida Dick is the "right person to bring about the transformation needed" in the Met Police

    https://bbc.in/3kZ6mAD https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1443929971161018370/video/1

    Khan is a waste of space.
    He's backing the wrong horse here, thats for sure.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajsNJtnUb7c
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,597
    Alistair said:

    Kavanaugh has Covid.

    He's doubled vaxxed and symptomless so probably no USA Supreme Court hilarity incoming

    He will probably have passed it on to one of elderly centre left judges knowing their luck.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 14,759
    No surprise here. If he continues as he did yesterday and Johnson remains leader of the Tories I'd be surprised if Sir Keir isn't our next PM......

    He may not be outwardly exciting but I saw something yesterday that I hadn't seen before. He has a personality that is engaging and he isn't smug. A nice contrast to Corbyn. He also seemed to me to be honest which is something no one could accuse Johnson of being. The downside is that he's a little bit Tory but nobody's perfect?

    Johnson by contrast is becoming more untrustworthy as each day passes. Brexit is disintegrating. People are experiencing for themselves the damage it's causing and it's getting worse. (I myself got a letter yesterday cancelling something '....because of Brexit').

    .......and as luck would have it all the architects are there together and in plain sight. They haven't even got the fig leaf of Dominic Cummings.



  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,915
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:

    London Mayor Sadiq Khan says he's "confident" Cressida Dick is the "right person to bring about the transformation needed" in the Met Police

    https://bbc.in/3kZ6mAD https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1443929971161018370/video/1

    Khan is a waste of space.
    There are two explanations - either he genuinely thinks she is the right person to transform it, or he thinks politically he has to say she is.

    Either way, worrying.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 2,316

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Does it matter? How accurately is it being measured?
    Ours is being measured by the gold standard that is the ONS.

    Always amuses my foreign friends and colleagues the head of UK Statistics Authority can publicly chastise the PM downwards for misusing official stats.
    The thing that puzzles me is how nearly no other country seems to be doing the ONS style population survey tests.

    It doesn't take a vast amount of tests, or a vast amount of money to do such a survey. And, using established, standard techniques to ensure the samples are balanced, it can give you an accurate (scientifically speaking) estimate of the actual infection levels.

    Anyone know why?
    I think it may date back to the start of the pandemic.

    The UK started by following the pre planed pandemic response, which included isolating the old/venerable until the young/heathy had reached 'heard immunity'. As part of that random testing of the overall public to determine how widespread the virus was and long till heard immunity was priority, where as testing every signal possible cases was not. so the ONS started to do the servery.

    In most other places, priority was placed on attempting to find every signal possible cases.

    I don't know if its irony but because the government did not have enough testing in March/April/may and was criticised a lot for it, they have since throne recourses at testing, for all the good it has done us.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,474
    edited October 1

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Best in the world.
    Would you rather go into the winter with those infections in front of us or behind us?
    The issue is testing rates.

    The UK is still doing a very high rate of tests per head of population, compared with most other countries.

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-cumulative-total-tests-per-thousand-map?tab=table

    As Donald Trump observed, the more you test, the more you find.
    Best to stop testing people. If we stop testing then there is zero covid and we can all get on with our lives!

    What do these other countries mean they won't let us in???
    Why should we care what they do or do not allow? But yes, stopping testing is what almost every other nation has done relative to what we're doing.

    Mass testing for a virus we're vaccinated against is beyond ridiculous now. Complete waste of money, its time to stop it and get on with our lives.
    Only two thirds of us are vaccinated.

    Question - will we be able to "get on with our lives" as a pariah nation where we need to quarantine before being allowed into other nations? Our "high risk" / "extremely high risk" status will become a ball-ache pretty quickly if most of the rest of the world has squashed Covid and we haven't.
    The latest antibody survey shows that we've comfortably above 90% in the UK. You are coming across as detached from reality.

    93.6% in England
    91.2% in Wales
    91.9% in Northern Ireland
    93.3% in Scotland

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/antibodies
  • Alistair said:

    Kavanaugh has Covid.

    He's doubled vaxxed and symptomless so probably no USA Supreme Court hilarity incoming

    I started writing a thread about SCOTUS and hoping to do something about Clarence Thomas and Long Dong Silver.

    Might have to wait a few weeks until this all blows over.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,915

    Alistair said:

    Kavanaugh has Covid.

    He's doubled vaxxed and symptomless so probably no USA Supreme Court hilarity incoming

    He will probably have passed it on to one of elderly centre left judges knowing their luck.
    I hope they are all fine, but itd be interesting to see how the Republicans in the senate would invent some rule about why Biden shouldn't get to appoint a replacement.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 56,992
    Mr. Eagles, ah, hope you stay safe and sound.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,597


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    5h
    We've now reached the point where the public are being advised to flag down buses to protect themselves from police officers. And the head of the Metropolitan Police remains in post. How does anyone in authority seriously think this is a sustainable position.

    Indeed, it is silly, pretty sure no-one has successfully flagged down a bus in the last decade....
    I was told by a bus driver (TfL), not long before COVID, that stopping a bus between stops was banned.

    And that undercover bus inspectors would pull up a bus driver if he/she did it in front of them (the inspector) and pull them off the job then and there for disciplinary proceedings.
    To be fair, at least in London, the number of stops seems to have doubled and there is live timetabling so this policy is more reasonable than it would have been 20 years ago, when they often would stop if they could.

    Just shows how out of touch whoever wrote it is, probably not used a bus in the last decade yet refers to them casually over something serious.

    The suggestion on here of allowing the arrested to whatsapp a photo of the warrant card makes much more sense.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,833

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Best in the world.
    Would you rather go into the winter with those infections in front of us or behind us?
    The issue is testing rates.

    The UK is still doing a very high rate of tests per head of population, compared with most other countries.

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-cumulative-total-tests-per-thousand-map?tab=table

    As Donald Trump observed, the more you test, the more you find.
    Best to stop testing people. If we stop testing then there is zero covid and we can all get on with our lives!

    What do these other countries mean they won't let us in???
    Why should we care what they do or do not allow? But yes, stopping testing is what almost every other nation has done relative to what we're doing.

    Mass testing for a virus we're vaccinated against is beyond ridiculous now. Complete waste of money, its time to stop it and get on with our lives.
    Only two thirds of us are vaccinated.

    Question - will we be able to "get on with our lives" as a pariah nation where we need to quarantine before being allowed into other nations? Our "high risk" / "extremely high risk" status will become a ball-ache pretty quickly if most of the rest of the world has squashed Covid and we haven't.
    Other nations don't seem to be judging things on the cases numbers

    This is because every statistician around the world has realised that the case numbers are, in large measure, not comparable international since the testing levels vary so widely.

    Hospitalisations and deaths are used to judge the state of affairs between developed nations.

    Which is why the Trumpian scumbags were trying to fiddle with those. Yes, Florida, I am looking at you. As a start....
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 13,091

    Britain’s current Covid infection rate is by far the highest in western Europe and is only exceeded by a handful of countries around the world
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-covid-infection-rate-global-comparison-johns-hopkins-who-b958154.html

    Best in the world.
    Would you rather go into the winter with those infections in front of us or behind us?
    The issue is testing rates.

    The UK is still doing a very high rate of tests per head of population, compared with most other countries.

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-cumulative-total-tests-per-thousand-map?tab=table

    As Donald Trump observed, the more you test, the more you find.
    Best to stop testing people. If we stop testing then there is zero covid and we can all get on with our lives!

    What do these other countries mean they won't let us in???
    Why should we care what they do or do not allow? But yes, stopping testing is what almost every other nation has done relative to what we're doing.

    Mass testing for a virus we're vaccinated against is beyond ridiculous now. Complete waste of money, its time to stop it and get on with our lives.
    Only two thirds of us are vaccinated.

    Question - will we be able to "get on with our lives" as a pariah nation where we need to quarantine before being allowed into other nations? Our "high risk" / "extremely high risk" status will become a ball-ache pretty quickly if most of the rest of the world has squashed Covid and we haven't.
    Everyone adult who wants to be vaccinated is double-vaccinated by now.

    Yes we can get on with our lives. "Squashing" Covid is a pipe-dream unless you really mean "stop testing for Covid and declare it squashed".
    You haven't answered my point about travel. You may be happy that it is done. Countries like Germany are not. We currently have a waiver for the mandatory quarantine that pox rates as high as here demand. If they pull that waiver then we won't be welcome in non-UK countries.

    Wanting Covid to be over and saying so domestically is one thing. Covid really being over and other countries being willing to accept our pretence is another. We could be working harder to get more people vaccinated but won't. Others will.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,290
    .
    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    25% chance? You're having a laugh.

    You need Boris to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
    Starmer to lead Labour.
    The Conservatives to not just lose their majority, but to lose it badly enough that Starmer can (and does) form the next government.

    Impossible?

    Far from it.

    But not a 25% chance either.

    Morning. Could you please let me know what the best Radiohead album is.

    TIA

    Asking FAF.

    Obvs.
    Well, I would do it in reverse: which Radiohead albums are not good?

    And there's really only one "bad" Radiohead album - Pablo Honey. And that's not actually bad, just immature.

    You then have two "middling" Radiohead albums - The Bends and Hail to the Thief. Both have their moments, but both do not reach the heights of some other albums.

    Then there are the "great, but not the greatest" albums - The King of Limbs, Amnesiac, A Moon Shaped Pool. Some really cracking songs on those albums: Present Tense, Lotus Flower, and I Might Be Wrong being particularly great examples.

    And then you have the Holy Trio: OK Computer, Kid A and In Rainbows. I am particularly fond of the last of these, but you can make a case for any of them to be Radiohead's GOAT.

    My faves from those: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWBRnDK_AE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXl0F9oF92E, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYWYWPc9HU, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQD1QiQ9o4
    I should have included How to Disappear Completely (from Kid A), which Thom Yorke regards as the best song Radiohead ever made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W6HhdqA95w
    Only a complete **** would spell Tom with an h.
    That's a pretty harsh thing to say about his mum.
    Did she encourage him to spell it that way? His real name is Thomas.
    Shortening Thomas to Thom is as absurd as shortening Anthony to Thony.
    OK Phili calm yourself.
    He prefers 'Lip I think.
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