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Will the panickers stop panicking when their tanks are full? – politicalbetting.com

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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 46,428

    Random question, totally OT. I've always wondered about the camouflage paint jobs on WWII aeroplanes, such as spitfires etc. Was the camouflage pre-deteremined and the same or did the painting vary between planes?

    I suspect the camouflage was standard. Special paint I suppose, comes out of the tin in that pattern.

    :neutral:
    The tartan paint manufacturers really came into their own.
    It was actually a mixture - they were supposed to be camouflaged according to designed patterns, for the RAF, but there was a lot of variation due to variations in updating schemes, patched up aircraft etc, time, lack of the right paint or even squadron level ideas about what worked. Tons of notices sent round saying "paint the roundels properly, or else".
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    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I didn't realise that student loan interest rates were 6%. That's actually daylight robbery.

    Someone said earlier that early repayment was penalised - I forget whom. Is this literally true, or just the nature of the thing whereby debts are written off after n years of time or age?
    It's the latter. For most graduates, if they pay back a small proportion early, that repayment will get swallowed up in the 6% interest on the remainder and they'll have wasted it. Conversely, if you're a young lawyer earning £120K+ a year, you can pay the whole thing off early and save yourself loads in the longer term. But you need to pay it all, or substantially all, off.

    It is a tax/loan (a bit of both, really) with the most perverse attributes, and very few graduates understand it. For example, changing the interest rate would make very little difference for the vast majority of graduates, who will never pay it off anyway; for them, the interest rate only affects the notional remaining value which gets written off at the end. Reducing the interest rate would only benefit the small number of very high earners who have a sporting chance of eventually paying it off.
    Thanks. So you need a sum of the order of £10K+ to make a decent bite in the loan? - and yet most young professional persons would have much better use for that money right now. Nasty thing. Did the LDs really think that up??

    I hadn't paid much attention to it till the subject of a friend's daughter and her windfall of a (somewhat smaller) lump sum from a legacy came up in conversation. I was very surprised when my friend said he'd strongly advise her to put the money aside for a house rather than repay some of the student loan - so contrary to normal good financial advice.
    Yes. It is a graduate tax in all but name, with one practical advantage and a few political advantages.

    The practical advantage is that you can't escape the tax by emigrating. The political advantages are that it isn't called a tax, and there's no pressure to charge it to graduates of earlier generations.

    It means that for most students all the normal rules of borrowing don't apply. There's no penalty to borrowing more than you need, using a lump sum to pay off a chunk of the debt is money thrown away/donated to the government, and the interest rate is irrelevant - it's set high enough to try to ensure that you can never repay all the debt and escape the tax. I shudder to think what effect this might have on that generation's attitude to normal debt.

    It's the cherry on top that a small portion of the most successful graduates will manage to repay their debt and then enjoy a lower tax rate on their income. How gloriously regressive is that?
    Insane. And (as I queried earlier) the LDs came up with it? Like privatising the GPO?
    I don't know the ins and outs completely, but I think it was a compromise between the Lib Dems, who wanted a graduate tax, and the Tories who didn't. So they came up with a mostly-graduate tax (with an escape for the rich) but that was called a loan. And the Lib Dems suffered mightily.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,498
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Brexit to blame for Britain's truck driver crisis, lectures favourite to succeed Merkel
    Olaf Scholz takes aim at UK over HGV shortfall despite Germany facing its own shortages of up to 60,000 drivers"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/27/brexit-blame-britains-truck-driver-crisis-lectures-favourite/

    Wasn't he asked directly about this by a UK reporter, in the usual solipsistic way of UK reporters? He could have just told him (politely) to foxtrot oscar I guess.

    'Scholz insults UK by refusing to comment on the most important situation of the moment!'
    https://twitter.com/GermanAmbUK/status/1442485166446837761

    He was asked if he was going to "send" truck drivers to the UK.

    What does that even mean?

    He answered it the only way he could, by a couple of comments about whether they would want to go, plus a comment about the visa point post-Brexit.
    But. Merkel has been ousted. Surely all will now be well with the EU?
    The only pro Brexit party in Germany is the AfD, otherwise there is little difference between CDU or SPD views of Boris' post Brexit UK
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,441
    edited September 2021
    Betway have paid out their German Market.

    I am not sure anyone actually took my tip on the SPD at 18/1 (or 15/1 a few minutes later) but I will claim credit for it nonetheless.

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    pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited September 2021
    Not good..

    Gas hits all time high
    199.48p/therm

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cxwdwz5d8gxt/natural-gas

    Was 40p this time last year
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,743

    Nature anecdote.

    Moorhens and Conkers having a very good year. Blackberry yield well down on 2020.

    And a rat has just brazenly stepped out in front of me.

    Quite good blackberries round my way, and found some good crab apples too while walking over the fields with my pup.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 46,428

    Carnyx said:

    Random question, totally OT. I've always wondered about the camouflage paint jobs on WWII aeroplanes, such as spitfires etc. Was the camouflage pre-deteremined and the same or did the painting vary between planes?

    I suspect the camouflage was standard. Special paint I suppose, comes out of the tin in that pattern.

    :neutral:
    But you had to be very careful to get the right tins if your Spitfire was even-numbered as opposed to odd-numbered: Type A versus mirror image Type B.

    like in the old war films?
    That was much easier - all you needed was Black and White paint.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 30,247
    Compared to most western European countries, Britain is a "low trust" society. Although the situation isn't anywhere near as bad as it is the United States.
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    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    Passed three petrol station on way to the gym - all out of fuel. I hear that the closest motorway (M1) service station is out too.

    My in-laws have their 50th Anniversary Party this Saturday, with people travelling by car 100 miles each way from London, similar from Bath and 50 miles from Cambridge.

    PB brains trust: What are the chances of the Party having to be cancelled?

    Seems to me that the tankers will be in demand everywhere - who knows when the petrol stations will be replenished with fuel? I think there are many like me who haven't panic-bought fuel but will be quick off the mark should fuel become available so I can see this dragging on for weeks.

    Many in the countryside live 15 miles + from nearest petrol station - do they risk a journey on spec for fuel? I think not. Quasi-lockdown I guess.

    The problem is that the wrong kind of people are buying petrol.
    The wrong kind of people will soon have nowhere left to store it.

    In the bath, maybe.....
    The govt says that if everyone just bought £20 of petrol every week as per usual we'd be fine.

    Does anyone do that?
    No. Always run to 1/4 of tank to yellow light then fill.
    My dad always said never let it get to the yellow light - if you let it go too low, you can start pulling in some of the sludge and contaminants that settle over time to the bottom of the tank. Don't know if that's still the case for modern cars and petrol supplies, though.

    At uni I was surprised a friend always let his car get down to the red light, and would then put a fiver's worth in (this was early 1990s). That was all he could afford at any one time. I guess many people don't want to have fifty or sixty pounds lying in their petrol tank for weeks, when it could be feeding their family...

    (I remember seeing a JCB's diesel tank that needed welding. We drained it and then steam-cleaned the interior. There was a thick sludge at the bottom, which probably would not have helped the rust.)
    A different brother-in-law of mine, when first driving a new car, would fill a can with spare fuel and then drive the car dry so that he would know exactly how far he could push it.
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    pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited September 2021
    Thanks that’s better data than the beeb.

    Based on those forward contracts, ofgems April cap will be much much higher. Average energy bills gonna be >£1800

    Ouch
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 30,247

    slade said:

    These petrol buying anecdotes are bizarre.

    You cannot seriously be telling me you pay for anything in cash?

    Covid changed my petrol buying behaviour. Before I paid in cash - usually £20. Now I pay by card - usually for 15 litres - and it removes the need to be precise on the dial.
    Why bother with cash full stop? It’s an obsolete inconvenience
    You'll probably be shocked to hear that we still use cheques occasionally.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,708

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    Passed three petrol station on way to the gym - all out of fuel. I hear that the closest motorway (M1) service station is out too.

    My in-laws have their 50th Anniversary Party this Saturday, with people travelling by car 100 miles each way from London, similar from Bath and 50 miles from Cambridge.

    PB brains trust: What are the chances of the Party having to be cancelled?

    Seems to me that the tankers will be in demand everywhere - who knows when the petrol stations will be replenished with fuel? I think there are many like me who haven't panic-bought fuel but will be quick off the mark should fuel become available so I can see this dragging on for weeks.

    Many in the countryside live 15 miles + from nearest petrol station - do they risk a journey on spec for fuel? I think not. Quasi-lockdown I guess.

    The problem is that the wrong kind of people are buying petrol.
    The wrong kind of people will soon have nowhere left to store it.

    In the bath, maybe.....
    The govt says that if everyone just bought £20 of petrol every week as per usual we'd be fine.

    Does anyone do that?
    No. Always run to 1/4 of tank to yellow light then fill.
    My dad always said never let it get to the yellow light - if you let it go too low, you can start pulling in some of the sludge and contaminants that settle over time to the bottom of the tank. Don't know if that's still the case for modern cars and petrol supplies, though.

    At uni I was surprised a friend always let his car get down to the red light, and would then put a fiver's worth in (this was early 1990s). That was all he could afford at any one time. I guess many people don't want to have fifty or sixty pounds lying in their petrol tank for weeks, when it could be feeding their family...

    (I remember seeing a JCB's diesel tank that needed welding. We drained it and then steam-cleaned the interior. There was a thick sludge at the bottom, which probably would not have helped the rust.)
    A different brother-in-law of mine, when first driving a new car, would fill a can with spare fuel and then drive the car dry so that he would know exactly how far he could push it.
    Presumably unintentionally ambiguous wording, but unusually it makes excellent sense both ways!
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    Students now packing out the local Lidl buying booze and snacks for parties.

    Not a mask in sight.
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    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,229
    edited September 2021

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    Passed three petrol station on way to the gym - all out of fuel. I hear that the closest motorway (M1) service station is out too.

    My in-laws have their 50th Anniversary Party this Saturday, with people travelling by car 100 miles each way from London, similar from Bath and 50 miles from Cambridge.

    PB brains trust: What are the chances of the Party having to be cancelled?

    Seems to me that the tankers will be in demand everywhere - who knows when the petrol stations will be replenished with fuel? I think there are many like me who haven't panic-bought fuel but will be quick off the mark should fuel become available so I can see this dragging on for weeks.

    Many in the countryside live 15 miles + from nearest petrol station - do they risk a journey on spec for fuel? I think not. Quasi-lockdown I guess.

    The problem is that the wrong kind of people are buying petrol.
    The wrong kind of people will soon have nowhere left to store it.

    In the bath, maybe.....
    The govt says that if everyone just bought £20 of petrol every week as per usual we'd be fine.

    Does anyone do that?
    No. Always run to 1/4 of tank to yellow light then fill.
    My dad always said never let it get to the yellow light - if you let it go too low, you can start pulling in some of the sludge and contaminants that settle over time to the bottom of the tank. Don't know if that's still the case for modern cars and petrol supplies, though.

    At uni I was surprised a friend always let his car get down to the red light, and would then put a fiver's worth in (this was early 1990s). That was all he could afford at any one time. I guess many people don't want to have fifty or sixty pounds lying in their petrol tank for weeks, when it could be feeding their family...

    (I remember seeing a JCB's diesel tank that needed welding. We drained it and then steam-cleaned the interior. There was a thick sludge at the bottom, which probably would not have helped the rust.)
    A different brother-in-law of mine, when first driving a new car, would fill a can with spare fuel and then drive the car dry so that he would know exactly how far he could push it.
    Don't most vehicles take fuel from the bottom of the tank even when it is full? I never quite understood that one (sludge at the bottom).


  • Options

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    Passed three petrol station on way to the gym - all out of fuel. I hear that the closest motorway (M1) service station is out too.

    My in-laws have their 50th Anniversary Party this Saturday, with people travelling by car 100 miles each way from London, similar from Bath and 50 miles from Cambridge.

    PB brains trust: What are the chances of the Party having to be cancelled?

    Seems to me that the tankers will be in demand everywhere - who knows when the petrol stations will be replenished with fuel? I think there are many like me who haven't panic-bought fuel but will be quick off the mark should fuel become available so I can see this dragging on for weeks.

    Many in the countryside live 15 miles + from nearest petrol station - do they risk a journey on spec for fuel? I think not. Quasi-lockdown I guess.

    The problem is that the wrong kind of people are buying petrol.
    The wrong kind of people will soon have nowhere left to store it.

    In the bath, maybe.....
    The govt says that if everyone just bought £20 of petrol every week as per usual we'd be fine.

    Does anyone do that?
    No. Always run to 1/4 of tank to yellow light then fill.
    My dad always said never let it get to the yellow light - if you let it go too low, you can start pulling in some of the sludge and contaminants that settle over time to the bottom of the tank. Don't know if that's still the case for modern cars and petrol supplies, though.

    At uni I was surprised a friend always let his car get down to the red light, and would then put a fiver's worth in (this was early 1990s). That was all he could afford at any one time. I guess many people don't want to have fifty or sixty pounds lying in their petrol tank for weeks, when it could be feeding their family...

    (I remember seeing a JCB's diesel tank that needed welding. We drained it and then steam-cleaned the interior. There was a thick sludge at the bottom, which probably would not have helped the rust.)
    A different brother-in-law of mine, when first driving a new car, would fill a can with spare fuel and then drive the car dry so that he would know exactly how far he could push it.
    I believe most F1 teams do that during pre-season testing. It probably calibrates their predictions with the reality, especially as they need to finish the race with a certain amount in the tank (as Vettel discovered to his cost earlier this season).

    Whilst on F1: it seems the minor rule changes they made this season have made the grid much more competitive. IMV it's a shame there's some large changes coming next year, which means one team will probably dominate...
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,020
    edited September 2021
    ping said:

    Thanks that’s better data than the beeb.

    Based on those forward contracts, ofgems April cap will be much much higher. Average energy bills gonna be >£1800

    Ouch
    1 therm = 29.31 kwh.

    6.8p wholesale price then, my 2 yr fix is at 4.08p...

    What might happen is that the cap doesn't go up to what it otherwise would have done, with the Gov't paying the difference. The Gov't might be paying it's own green levy at this rate :D
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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,505

    Betway have paid out their German Market.

    I am not sure anyone actually took my tip on the SPD at 18/1 (or 15/1 a few minutes later) but I will claim credit for it nonetheless.

    I didnt but hat tip to you.

    And to whoever posted the boxing tip over the weekend. Didnt back that either.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    So do I just fix the price w B Gas now?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,460
    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I didn't realise that student loan interest rates were 6%. That's actually daylight robbery.

    Someone said earlier that early repayment was penalised - I forget whom. Is this literally true, or just the nature of the thing whereby debts are written off after n years of time or age?
    There is no penalty for early repayment like you might have for a mortgage.
    They discourage it though, make sure you really do want to online when you seek to make additional payments.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,460
    Andy_JS said:

    slade said:

    These petrol buying anecdotes are bizarre.

    You cannot seriously be telling me you pay for anything in cash?

    Covid changed my petrol buying behaviour. Before I paid in cash - usually £20. Now I pay by card - usually for 15 litres - and it removes the need to be precise on the dial.
    Why bother with cash full stop? It’s an obsolete inconvenience
    You'll probably be shocked to hear that we still use cheques occasionally.
    Paid my allotment subs with a cheque. I checked the last cheque used. Yep - it was the allotment subs for last year...
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    Andy_JS said:

    Compared to most western European countries, Britain is a "low trust" society. Although the situation isn't anywhere near as bad as it is the United States.

    I don't believe you.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,194

    Scott_xP said:

    Halfords reveal the sale of jerry cans went up 1,656 per cent this weekend.

    Somebody is having a good crisis.
    I was sitting in the dentist waiting room earlier, noting the lack of magazines since they were taken away as a covid precaution. Replicated across doctors and dentists all over the UK, magazines like Ideal Home and Country Life and various travel magazines must have lost tons of subscribers.
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    eekeek Posts: 26,554
    isam said:

    So do I just fix the price w B Gas now?

    Is the fix less than the new price cap or does the fixed rate extend into October next year? That will answer your question
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,460
    Andy_JS said:

    Compared to most western European countries, Britain is a "low trust" society.

    Meaning?
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    pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited September 2021
    isam said:

    So do I just fix the price w B Gas now?

    No. Don’t take out a new fixed or variable tariff until April.

    Stay on your current fix if you have one. If it ends, don’t do anything. Let it roll over onto the svr capped tariff.

    Until April when the cap shoots up. At that point it will almost certainly make sense to get a new fix.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,020
    edited September 2021
    isam said:

    So do I just fix the price w B Gas now?

    Think best to stay on Standard variable now, I note the 2 yr fix v8 I got with SSE has now been replaced with their v9

    Average bill up from £1404 to £1799.

    Doubt there's much fixed left near the price cap now. If you can find anything near the current cap*, take it otherwise don't bother.

    * Probably doesn't exist now.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    eek said:

    isam said:

    So do I just fix the price w B Gas now?

    Is the fix less than the new price cap or does the fixed rate extend into October next year? That will answer your question
    We got a letter last week saying current prices £418, new price based on variable is £483 and fixed is £478
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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,505
    eek said:

    isam said:

    So do I just fix the price w B Gas now?

    Is the fix less than the new price cap or does the fixed rate extend into October next year? That will answer your question
    Martin lewis is very good on this sort of thing. But he might not give a straight answer. Might be more like if you think X will happen do this, or if not X do that.

    If the fee for exitting the fix is low might be a good way of avoiding the worst pain.
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    AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Almost 38K Covid cases today. Some early signs though that the rate of increase is slowing down. Deaths still falling.
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    gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    Nature anecdote.

    Moorhens and Conkers having a very good year. Blackberry yield well down on 2020.

    And a rat has just brazenly stepped out in front of me.

    Where’s Franco when you need him?
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    "There is such a thing as biology and we need to be able to talk about that still"

    I think Helen Lewis’ point is perfectly reasonable. I find it hard to see how anyone could disagree with it without going full woo woo

    https://twitter.com/J_Bloodworth/status/1442489967482179587?s=20
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    So do I just fix the price w B Gas now?

    Think best to stay on Standard variable now, I note the 2 yr fix v8 I got with SSE has now been replaced with their v9

    Average bill up from £1404 to £1799.

    Doubt there's much fixed left near the price cap now. If you can find anything near the current cap*, take it otherwise don't bother.

    * Probably doesn't exist now.
    I don't really understand any of it! Not being too blase, but worst way its losing a couple of hundred quid a year isnt it?
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,708

    eek said:

    isam said:

    So do I just fix the price w B Gas now?

    Is the fix less than the new price cap or does the fixed rate extend into October next year? That will answer your question
    Martin lewis is very good on this sort of thing. But he might not give a straight answer. Might be more like if you think X will happen do this, or if not X do that.

    If the fee for exitting the fix is low might be a good way of avoiding the worst pain.
    Got a 2 yr fix a week ago with Scottish Gas. The exit fee is IIRC £40. Not too bad.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,782
    AlistairM said:

    Almost 38K Covid cases today. Some early signs though that the rate of increase is slowing down. Deaths still falling.

    Sunday seems to be lateral flow day for schools. Two Sunday specimen days running now we've had a shit load of lateral flow positives in England.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,020
    edited September 2021
    isam said:

    eek said:

    isam said:

    So do I just fix the price w B Gas now?

    Is the fix less than the new price cap or does the fixed rate extend into October next year? That will answer your question
    We got a letter last week saying current prices £418, new price based on variable is £483 and fixed is £478
    What's the name of the tariff ?

    Just put my usage into British Gas calculator and they are coming out at £170 a month for any of their 3 fixed tariffs !! (SSE = £132)
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    darkagedarkage Posts: 5,017
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I didn't realise that student loan interest rates were 6%. That's actually daylight robbery.

    Someone said earlier that early repayment was penalised - I forget whom. Is this literally true, or just the nature of the thing whereby debts are written off after n years of time or age?
    There is no penalty for early repayment like you might have for a mortgage.
    They discourage it though, make sure you really do want to online when you seek to make additional payments.
    That is presumably because it may not be in your interest to do so. For instance if you are about to experience a drop in income then it may be in your interest to avoid repayment, as you would effectively have a loan holiday. You could use the money for other legitimate purposes that better serve your interests, ie for a house deposit.

    The real scandal here is the extortionate interest rates. It is pure robbery. And, unfortunately for the tories, a system they are completely responsible for!
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    I wouldn't call it persuasive....
    This video is an ad. Watch it and guess what it’s for. I’ll wait.
    https://twitter.com/gruber/status/1441457685644279819?s=20

    Spoiler - its actually 10 years old....but the attitude hasn't evolved...

    And there is an obvious get out clause that apple will use, they will just remove all sockets from the iPhone and insist on wireless charging.
    Yep -they will not put a USB-C in a phone - too big.
    If you spend any time on Hackaday, you'll find people have managed to frankengraft USB C connectors into iPhones.

    What it would mean is that there's no way iPhones could get any thinner.
    When the first iphone without headphone jack was released someone opened it up and discovered there was a headphone jack shaped gap in the circuit board and there were analogue audio contacts available to solder onto exactly where you would expect them to be if there was a jack installed. So he installed one and it worked perfectly.
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    darkagedarkage Posts: 5,017
    I've had a few conversations today. Everyone is topping up with petrol. Apocalyptic worries about the direction of the economy (and civilisation as a whole) seem to be bubbling away under the surface. But also trivial concerns like needing petrol to get to work and needing to go on planned holidays.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,020
    edited September 2021
    AlistairM said:

    Almost 38K Covid cases today. Some early signs though that the rate of increase is slowing down. Deaths still falling.

    Covid looks on the surface like it has reached endemic oscillation in the UK, but it can't be there yet because it is now disproportionately infecting (And thus immunising) unvaccinated school age children. This wouldn't be the case if we'd reached true endemicity.
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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,505
    isam said:

    eek said:

    isam said:

    So do I just fix the price w B Gas now?

    Is the fix less than the new price cap or does the fixed rate extend into October next year? That will answer your question
    We got a letter last week saying current prices £418, new price based on variable is £483 and fixed is £478
    You must have a very well insulated house. Or a thick jumper.
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    isam said:

    eek said:

    isam said:

    So do I just fix the price w B Gas now?

    Is the fix less than the new price cap or does the fixed rate extend into October next year? That will answer your question
    We got a letter last week saying current prices £418, new price based on variable is £483 and fixed is £478
    You must have a very well insulated house. Or a thick jumper.
    Unless that's monthly, in which case its a very badly insulated sauna.
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,111
    edited September 2021
    Petrol update, Brighton, on foot. Absolute gridlock on one of the arteries. It's single carriageway, small garage, but the road both ways is completely blocked by folk trying to turn left/right into the forecourt. Most of those in the queue don't want petrol, but they can't move because of those who do. Tempers are frayed. This petrol station is normally really quiet, so I can only assume that the bigger ones with plenty of room to queue, e.g. Asda, are now closed.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2021

    isam said:

    eek said:

    isam said:

    So do I just fix the price w B Gas now?

    Is the fix less than the new price cap or does the fixed rate extend into October next year? That will answer your question
    We got a letter last week saying current prices £418, new price based on variable is £483 and fixed is £478
    You must have a very well insulated house. Or a thick jumper.
    It's a new home (for us) we just moved into, and it had been empty for a few months
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 30,247
    edited September 2021
    It's interesting IMO how there used to be almost no debate about the fact that ordinary people were subsidising a small percentage of people to go to university and college. It was just taken for granted by almost everyone that it was the right thing to do. People implicitly accepted that (a) Some people would go to university, (b) It would only be a small percentage of the population, and (c) Everyone should help to pay for it through taxation.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,965
    These eye watering prices won't help with levelling up over the winter.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Compared to most western European countries, Britain is a "low trust" society.

    Meaning?
    https://ourworldindata.org/trust

    This is fundamental to the fuel thing. In say Norway there'd be a real hope they people would think I trust my neighbours not to fill up before they need to, so I'll do the same.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2021
    Boris and Sir Keir tied for best (most capable) PM in the new IPSOS - Sir Keir has always been at 37-38% with IPSOS, but Boris has dropped 7 points in this one

    Other than that though, Boris still has the best satisfaction ratings for a PM other than Blair at this stage, and Sir Keir is only thought of as better than IDS, Foot and Corbyn as a LotO

    Boris GP 39 Net -12
    Sir Keir GP 25 Net -25

    Sir Keir is -3 w Lab voters, Boris is +56 w Tories

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2021-09/Ipsos MORI September 2021 Political Monitor Charts_270921_PUBLIC_0.pdf
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    darkage said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I didn't realise that student loan interest rates were 6%. That's actually daylight robbery.

    Someone said earlier that early repayment was penalised - I forget whom. Is this literally true, or just the nature of the thing whereby debts are written off after n years of time or age?
    There is no penalty for early repayment like you might have for a mortgage.
    They discourage it though, make sure you really do want to online when you seek to make additional payments.
    That is presumably because it may not be in your interest to do so. For instance if you are about to experience a drop in income then it may be in your interest to avoid repayment, as you would effectively have a loan holiday. You could use the money for other legitimate purposes that better serve your interests, ie for a house deposit.

    The real scandal here is the extortionate interest rates. It is pure robbery. And, unfortunately for the tories, a system they are completely responsible for!
    And I think they are linked to RPI inflation? Which is really having a laugh.
  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 2,122
    ping said:

    Not good..

    Gas hits all time high
    199.48p/therm

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cxwdwz5d8gxt/natural-gas

    Was 40p this time last year

    We’re not even heating our home at the moment - it isn’t cold enough to need to yet - so presumably all this gas is going into electricity generation?

    We can only hope the wind gets up as once people start demanding gas for heating supply issues are only going to get worse!
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 5,017
    Andy_JS said:

    It's interesting IMO how there used to be almost no debate about the fact that ordinary people were subsidising a small percentage of people to go to university and college. It was just taken for granted by almost everyone that it was the right thing to do. People implicitly accepted that (a) Some people would go to university, (b) It would only be a small percentage of the population, and (c) Everyone should help to pay for it through taxation.

    The reality is that it suited everyone to not have this debate.

    What I found frustrating with the student loan protests in the 2010's was the idea that higher education should be a right, and that there should be no fees at all.
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Just forwarded to me by the missus:

    “Sperm Banks report shortage of donors, as every w@#%er in the UK is queuing at the petrol station!”

    Just logged onto Facebook (not used it in ages) and my whole feed is people taking the piss out of panic buyers. Not a single one I've seen blaming Brexit or the Government or anyone other than idiots panic buying.

    My favourite one was quite simple:

    "Back in my day the only time we started panic buying was when the bartender yelled "last call""
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Phil said:

    ping said:

    Not good..

    Gas hits all time high
    199.48p/therm

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cxwdwz5d8gxt/natural-gas

    Was 40p this time last year

    We’re not even heating our home at the moment - it isn’t cold enough to need to yet - so presumably all this gas is going into electricity generation?

    We can only hope the wind gets up as once people start demanding gas for heating supply issues are only going to get worse!
    At the moment we cant turn our radiators on anyway, so thats one way of saving on the gas bill!
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,194
    edited September 2021
    slade said:

    These petrol buying anecdotes are bizarre.

    You cannot seriously be telling me you pay for anything in cash?

    Covid changed my petrol buying behaviour. Before I paid in cash - usually £20. Now I pay by card - usually for 15 litres - and it removes the need to be precise on the dial.
    It surely used to be quicker to slap £30 or £40 on the counter and walk out than to stand there while the credit card machine received and checked your pin and dialled up payments HQ? But with contactless the time advantage in using cash has pretty much disappeared, even if you manage to stop the pump at a round number.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,910
    edited September 2021
    darkage said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I didn't realise that student loan interest rates were 6%. That's actually daylight robbery.

    Someone said earlier that early repayment was penalised - I forget whom. Is this literally true, or just the nature of the thing whereby debts are written off after n years of time or age?
    There is no penalty for early repayment like you might have for a mortgage.
    They discourage it though, make sure you really do want to online when you seek to make additional payments.
    That is presumably because it may not be in your interest to do so. For instance if you are about to experience a drop in income then it may be in your interest to avoid repayment, as you would effectively have a loan holiday. You could use the money for other legitimate purposes that better serve your interests, ie for a house deposit.

    The real scandal here is the extortionate interest rates. It is pure robbery. And, unfortunately for the tories, a system they are completely responsible for!
    The interest rates are largely irrelevant. You are not going to pay it off anyway. 30 years will likely come first.

    The reasons not to pay off or reduce a Student Loan include:

    - you may not be liable for any repayments in the future (i.e. if your salary drops or you win the lottery and jack it in or the rules change) and so you would have used capital for no reason
    - 30 years will zero the "debt" anyway
    - you may die and that will zero the debt
    - and, most importantly, Corbyn made it part of his policy platform to cancel student debts. If a future government did this then someone who had already voluntarily paid off their debt would have absolutely no chance of asking for their money back.

  • Options
    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,505
    Phil said:

    ping said:

    Not good..

    Gas hits all time high
    199.48p/therm

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cxwdwz5d8gxt/natural-gas

    Was 40p this time last year

    We’re not even heating our home at the moment - it isn’t cold enough to need to yet - so presumably all this gas is going into electricity generation?

    We can only hope the wind gets up as once people start demanding gas for heating supply issues are only going to get worse!
    Think it's been the warmest September in years according local BBC weatherman. Warmer than august.

    No fuel at local BP or Shell. Glad I'm on foot.
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    eekeek Posts: 26,554
    Andy_JS said:

    It's interesting IMO how there used to be almost no debate about the fact that ordinary people were subsidising a small percentage of people to go to university and college. It was just taken for granted by almost everyone that it was the right thing to do. People implicitly accepted that (a) Some people would go to university, (b) It would only be a small percentage of the population, and (c) Everyone should help to pay for it through taxation.

    Which worked when only 10-20% of the population went to university. It fell apart when 50% started going to university....
  • Options
    Phil said:

    ping said:

    Not good..

    Gas hits all time high
    199.48p/therm

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cxwdwz5d8gxt/natural-gas

    Was 40p this time last year

    We’re not even heating our home at the moment - it isn’t cold enough to need to yet - so presumably all this gas is going into electricity generation?

    We can only hope the wind gets up as once people start demanding gas for heating supply issues are only going to get worse!
    The wind is up. Currently providing 11.87GW, or 37.38% of UK demand.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,639
    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Almost 38K Covid cases today. Some early signs though that the rate of increase is slowing down. Deaths still falling.

    Covid looks on the surface like it has reached endemic oscillation in the UK, but it can't be there yet because it is now disproportionately infecting (And thus immunising) unvaccinated school age children. This wouldn't be the case if we'd reached true endemicity.
    If COVID-19 doesn't obey Farr's Law it will be the first time in 180 years.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2021
    Boris second only to Blair




    This govt second only to Blair's


  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,982
    NEW: Understand that councils do not intend to activate local fuel plans, despite the current situation. Councils have the power to intervene and prioritise key workers.

    Those powers have never been used before, but care providers are crying out for them to be implemented.


    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1442513225749172230

    NEW: Understand that councils do not intend to activate local fuel plans, despite the current situation. Councils have the power to intervene and prioritise key workers.

    Those powers have never been used before, but care providers are crying out for them to be implemented.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Sir Keir better than only IDS, Foot and Jezza


  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 46,428
    Chris said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Almost 38K Covid cases today. Some early signs though that the rate of increase is slowing down. Deaths still falling.

    Covid looks on the surface like it has reached endemic oscillation in the UK, but it can't be there yet because it is now disproportionately infecting (And thus immunising) unvaccinated school age children. This wouldn't be the case if we'd reached true endemicity.
    If COVID-19 doesn't obey Farr's Law it will be the first time in 180 years.
    Doing todays stats. But we are not in as oscillation. Cases are going down in the vaccinated groups (overall). Cases are skyrocketing among the unvaccinated groups (children).

    image

  • Options
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It's interesting IMO how there used to be almost no debate about the fact that ordinary people were subsidising a small percentage of people to go to university and college. It was just taken for granted by almost everyone that it was the right thing to do. People implicitly accepted that (a) Some people would go to university, (b) It would only be a small percentage of the population, and (c) Everyone should help to pay for it through taxation.

    Which worked when only 10-20% of the population went to university. It fell apart when 50% started going to university....
    Yet we don't we take that attitude to pensioners?

    'Pensions worked when only 10-20% of the population lived a few years receiving pensions. It fell apart when 50% started living for decades ....'

    That costs much more to the Exchequer yet we haven't reacted like that there? Funny that!
  • Options
    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It's interesting IMO how there used to be almost no debate about the fact that ordinary people were subsidising a small percentage of people to go to university and college. It was just taken for granted by almost everyone that it was the right thing to do. People implicitly accepted that (a) Some people would go to university, (b) It would only be a small percentage of the population, and (c) Everyone should help to pay for it through taxation.

    The reality is that it suited everyone to not have this debate.

    What I found frustrating with the student loan protests in the 2010's was the idea that higher education should be a right, and that there should be no fees at all.
    Just like it used to be when we had a far-left government. Under PM Thatcher.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    What people think of Sir Keir's Labour comapred to what they thought of previous incarnations


  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Is the opposition ready to form a govt?


  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 11,138
    isam said:

    kjh said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    Passed three petrol station on way to the gym - all out of fuel. I hear that the closest motorway (M1) service station is out too.

    My in-laws have their 50th Anniversary Party this Saturday, with people travelling by car 100 miles each way from London, similar from Bath and 50 miles from Cambridge.

    PB brains trust: What are the chances of the Party having to be cancelled?

    Seems to me that the tankers will be in demand everywhere - who knows when the petrol stations will be replenished with fuel? I think there are many like me who haven't panic-bought fuel but will be quick off the mark should fuel become available so I can see this dragging on for weeks.

    Many in the countryside live 15 miles + from nearest petrol station - do they risk a journey on spec for fuel? I think not. Quasi-lockdown I guess.

    The problem is that the wrong kind of people are buying petrol.
    The wrong kind of people will soon have nowhere left to store it.

    In the bath, maybe.....
    The govt says that if everyone just bought £20 of petrol every week as per usual we'd be fine.

    Does anyone do that?
    Yes. Last time I saw figures on this, most people do.

    I've always filled my tank in full from empty, but most people get £10 or £20 at a time. Though I don't know if cards wiping out cash has changed things.

    Its worth noting how often when you go to the pump, that the person before you at the pump stopped it at £20 or so. Its how most people normally use the pumps.
    I do normally just chuck in £20. Or £25 if I go to £20.01. Or £30 if I go to £25.01, and so on
    Don't you find you eventually get very wet, smelly and scared doing this?
    I'm sorry, I don't follow?
    Just my poor sense of humour. Eventually you will be dowsed in petrol.

    I also have to admit in the days before credit cards I did the same.
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    Oof! Those are horrible numbers isam.

    KSICWNBPM
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,457
    isam said:

    Boris second only to Blair




    This govt second only to Blair's


    Johnson's government about as popular as Blair's? Who'd have thunk it!
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,910

    Petrol update, Brighton, on foot. Absolute gridlock on one of the arteries. It's single carriageway, small garage, but the road both ways is completely blocked by folk trying to turn left/right into the forecourt. Most of those in the queue don't want petrol, but they can't move because of those who do. Tempers are frayed. This petrol station is normally really quiet, so I can only assume that the bigger ones with plenty of room to queue, e.g. Asda, are now closed.


    Demand outstripping supply, why aren't they significantly raising prices?

    Reminds me of the economists Thaler and Kahneman's snow shovels argument:

    "Customers don’t expect companies to maximize profits in all situations. For example, when there’s a blizzard, people don’t expect stores to raise the price of shovels, even though demand will naturally soar as the snow piles up. Thaler and his co-authors showed that customers will tend to punish businesses that do. This is a surprising result since it shows that businesses that maximize profits in the short term, as many do, can be penalized in the long term if customers think the companies are acting unfairly."
  • Options
    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,505
    kjh said:

    isam said:

    kjh said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    Passed three petrol station on way to the gym - all out of fuel. I hear that the closest motorway (M1) service station is out too.

    My in-laws have their 50th Anniversary Party this Saturday, with people travelling by car 100 miles each way from London, similar from Bath and 50 miles from Cambridge.

    PB brains trust: What are the chances of the Party having to be cancelled?

    Seems to me that the tankers will be in demand everywhere - who knows when the petrol stations will be replenished with fuel? I think there are many like me who haven't panic-bought fuel but will be quick off the mark should fuel become available so I can see this dragging on for weeks.

    Many in the countryside live 15 miles + from nearest petrol station - do they risk a journey on spec for fuel? I think not. Quasi-lockdown I guess.

    The problem is that the wrong kind of people are buying petrol.
    The wrong kind of people will soon have nowhere left to store it.

    In the bath, maybe.....
    The govt says that if everyone just bought £20 of petrol every week as per usual we'd be fine.

    Does anyone do that?
    Yes. Last time I saw figures on this, most people do.

    I've always filled my tank in full from empty, but most people get £10 or £20 at a time. Though I don't know if cards wiping out cash has changed things.

    Its worth noting how often when you go to the pump, that the person before you at the pump stopped it at £20 or so. Its how most people normally use the pumps.
    I do normally just chuck in £20. Or £25 if I go to £20.01. Or £30 if I go to £25.01, and so on
    Don't you find you eventually get very wet, smelly and scared doing this?
    I'm sorry, I don't follow?
    Just my poor sense of humour. Eventually you will be dowsed in petrol.

    I also have to admit in the days before credit cards I did the same.
    I always like to pay at pump and do all the card business before I fill up. Then I wont be embarrassed if my bank is having a tech outage.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    "An MP has been accused of threatening to use acid against a woman she believed to be in a relationship with her partner, a court has heard.

    Claudia Webbe, 56, allegedly became “obsessed” with Michelle Merritt due to her friendship with the Leicester East MP’s partner, Lester Thomas.

    Webbe also threatened to reveal naked photographs and videos she supposedly had of Merritt to her family, Westminster magistrates court heard on Monday.

    Webbe, who was elected as a Labour MP but has since had the whip withdrawn, denies the charge."

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/sep/27/mp-accused-of-making-acid-threat-to-friend-of-her-partner-court-hears-claudia-webbw
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Oof! Those are horrible numbers isam.

    KSICWNBPM

    6/4 Con Maj
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    Sandpit said:

    Just forwarded to me by the missus:

    “Sperm Banks report shortage of donors, as every w@#%er in the UK is queuing at the petrol station!”

    Just logged onto Facebook (not used it in ages) and my whole feed is people taking the piss out of panic buyers. Not a single one I've seen blaming Brexit or the Government or anyone other than idiots panic buying.

    My favourite one was quite simple:

    "Back in my day the only time we started panic buying was when the bartender yelled "last call""
    That is the dangerous echo chamber that is FB Philip. Quite a few on mine blaming Brexit. One or two trying to claim it has nothing to do with it. I don't "do" politics on FB or LinkedIn so I have resisted temptation to point out that if it has nothing to do with the government's post-Brexit policy, why are they in a flat panic themselves and have u-turned on visas for drivers? Nothing to do with Brexit? Ostriches spring to mind!
  • Options
    RobD said:

    isam said:

    Boris second only to Blair




    This govt second only to Blair's


    Johnson's government about as popular as Blair's? Who'd have thunk it!
    The Metropolitan media that hate Boris and loved Blair never face up to the fact that Boris in 2019 got even more vote share than Blair 1997.

    I'm disappointed with Boris lately, but there's no getting away from the fact that he does confound expectations and is popular.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,460
    Chris said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Almost 38K Covid cases today. Some early signs though that the rate of increase is slowing down. Deaths still falling.

    Covid looks on the surface like it has reached endemic oscillation in the UK, but it can't be there yet because it is now disproportionately infecting (And thus immunising) unvaccinated school age children. This wouldn't be the case if we'd reached true endemicity.
    If COVID-19 doesn't obey Farr's Law it will be the first time in 180 years.
    I'd argue that our interventions are showing it isn't obeying Farr's law right now.
  • Options

    Oof! Those are horrible numbers isam.

    KSICWNBPM

    Isam has now taken your role as ex-Brexit Party voter turned Unquestioning Fanboy In Chief of The Clown.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,982
    I was told today by the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association that an estimated 25-30% of its members haven’t been able to work today due to fuel shortages.

    “We keep being told by the Department for Transport that this isn’t a crisis - but it is a crisis for people who can’t work”

    https://twitter.com/HelenAnnSmith0/status/1442518605271158792
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    Sandpit said:

    Just forwarded to me by the missus:

    “Sperm Banks report shortage of donors, as every w@#%er in the UK is queuing at the petrol station!”

    Just logged onto Facebook (not used it in ages) and my whole feed is people taking the piss out of panic buyers. Not a single one I've seen blaming Brexit or the Government or anyone other than idiots panic buying.

    My favourite one was quite simple:

    "Back in my day the only time we started panic buying was when the bartender yelled "last call""
    That is the dangerous echo chamber that is FB Philip. Quite a few on mine blaming Brexit. One or two trying to claim it has nothing to do with it. I don't "do" politics on FB or LinkedIn so I have resisted temptation to point out that if it has nothing to do with the government's post-Brexit policy, why are they in a flat panic themselves and have u-turned on visas for drivers? Nothing to do with Brexit? Ostriches spring to mind!
    My Facebook is somewhere I never discuss politics. Except for political events, I don't like to mix politics and real life as you can only piss people off.
  • Options

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    Boris second only to Blair




    This govt second only to Blair's


    Johnson's government about as popular as Blair's? Who'd have thunk it!
    The Metropolitan media that hate Boris and loved Blair never face up to the fact that Boris in 2019 got even more vote share than Blair 1997.

    I'm disappointed with Boris lately, but there's no getting away from the fact that he does confound expectations and is popular.
    He knows he can fool some of the people all of the time.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,085
    Scott_xP said:

    I was told today by the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association that an estimated 25-30% of its members haven’t been able to work today due to fuel shortages.

    “We keep being told by the Department for Transport that this isn’t a crisis - but it is a crisis for people who can’t work”

    https://twitter.com/HelenAnnSmith0/status/1442518605271158792

    There is plenty of fuel. So said a joint statement just now by the society of petrol producers or whatever they are.

    Just not actually at the pumps, as it was put to us earlier.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,194
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I was told today by the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association that an estimated 25-30% of its members haven’t been able to work today due to fuel shortages.

    “We keep being told by the Department for Transport that this isn’t a crisis - but it is a crisis for people who can’t work”

    https://twitter.com/HelenAnnSmith0/status/1442518605271158792

    There is plenty of fuel. So said a joint statement just now by the society of petrol producers or whatever they are.

    Just not actually at the pumps, as it was put to us earlier.
    Knowing that the bog roll factory is stacked high with the stuff does little for personal hygiene
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 51,736
    Scott_xP said:

    I was told today by the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association that an estimated 25-30% of its members haven’t been able to work today due to fuel shortages.

    “We keep being told by the Department for Transport that this isn’t a crisis - but it is a crisis for people who can’t work”

    https://twitter.com/HelenAnnSmith0/status/1442518605271158792

    If everyone who didn’t *need* petrol today, didn’t try to buy it today, there wouldn’t be a problem.

    There is only a ‘crisis’ because the media arsonists are shouting fire in the theatre.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,129
    Tweet
    See new Tweets
    Conversation
    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Westminster Voting Intention (27 Sept):

    Conservative 41% (–)
    Labour 35% (–)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (+2)
    Green 5% (-2)
    Scottish National Party 4% (–)
    Reform UK 3% (–)
    Other 2% (–)

    Changes +/- 20 Sept
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,617
    edited September 2021
    Thanks for the useful comments earlier today.

    Just had a trip out to what was to me a very strange Northumberland attraction (although Sunil would like ) it. To and from passed several petrol stations none of which had queues, and, so far as I could see, any 'no petrol' (or diesel) notices.
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    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I was told today by the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association that an estimated 25-30% of its members haven’t been able to work today due to fuel shortages.

    “We keep being told by the Department for Transport that this isn’t a crisis - but it is a crisis for people who can’t work”

    https://twitter.com/HelenAnnSmith0/status/1442518605271158792

    If everyone who didn’t *need* petrol today, didn’t try to buy it today, there wouldn’t be a problem.

    There is only a ‘crisis’ because the media arsonists are shouting fire in the theatre.
    Would you recommend a supine media that is told not to report that there are tanker and lorry driver shortages? Whether we like it or not, it is a story, as is the response of government.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,460
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I was told today by the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association that an estimated 25-30% of its members haven’t been able to work today due to fuel shortages.

    “We keep being told by the Department for Transport that this isn’t a crisis - but it is a crisis for people who can’t work”

    https://twitter.com/HelenAnnSmith0/status/1442518605271158792

    If everyone who didn’t *need* petrol today, didn’t try to buy it today, there wouldn’t be a problem.

    There is only a ‘crisis’ because the media arsonists are shouting fire in the theatre.
    While you are correct, we've now reached the stage where the more sensible, level headed ones like me are filling up because if we don't we won't be able to. The wife needs to fill up today, so far our Morrisons still has diesel but she won't be there for another 90 minutes... It could be worse than watching football!
  • Options
    felix said:

    Tweet
    See new Tweets
    Conversation
    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Westminster Voting Intention (27 Sept):

    Conservative 41% (–)
    Labour 35% (–)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (+2)
    Green 5% (-2)
    Scottish National Party 4% (–)
    Reform UK 3% (–)
    Other 2% (–)

    Changes +/- 20 Sept

    Look at that - dynamite!!
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,194

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I was told today by the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association that an estimated 25-30% of its members haven’t been able to work today due to fuel shortages.

    “We keep being told by the Department for Transport that this isn’t a crisis - but it is a crisis for people who can’t work”

    https://twitter.com/HelenAnnSmith0/status/1442518605271158792

    If everyone who didn’t *need* petrol today, didn’t try to buy it today, there wouldn’t be a problem.

    There is only a ‘crisis’ because the media arsonists are shouting fire in the theatre.
    Would you recommend a supine media that is told not to report that there are tanker and lorry driver shortages? Whether we like it or not, it is a story, as is the response of government.
    It also underlines that what with Brexit and the pandemic the suggestion of impending shortages has credibility for many people. If the suggestions had no basis and were simply wild rumour or fake news, few would react to them.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,457

    felix said:

    Tweet
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    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Westminster Voting Intention (27 Sept):

    Conservative 41% (–)
    Labour 35% (–)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (+2)
    Green 5% (-2)
    Scottish National Party 4% (–)
    Reform UK 3% (–)
    Other 2% (–)

    Changes +/- 20 Sept

    Look at that - dynamite!!
    LD's up 25%!!!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,457
    New thread :)
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,460

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I was told today by the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association that an estimated 25-30% of its members haven’t been able to work today due to fuel shortages.

    “We keep being told by the Department for Transport that this isn’t a crisis - but it is a crisis for people who can’t work”

    https://twitter.com/HelenAnnSmith0/status/1442518605271158792

    If everyone who didn’t *need* petrol today, didn’t try to buy it today, there wouldn’t be a problem.

    There is only a ‘crisis’ because the media arsonists are shouting fire in the theatre.
    Would you recommend a supine media that is told not to report that there are tanker and lorry driver shortages? Whether we like it or not, it is a story, as is the response of government.
    This is a really tricky issue. On Friday 5Live kept leading on the story 'A few BP garages have run out, but there is no need to panic buy'. This triggered the panic buying, and then once it started, as others have said, it becomes like the prisoners dilemna. Apparently the situation of some empty garages has not suddenly started but has been going on for a while, and there is a strong suggestion that someone has leaked this story for a reason i.e. the distribution companies want the government to relent and give visa to get cheaper drivers than investing in UK training.

    5Live will say that they repeatedly said there is no need to panic buy, but it was too late by then. Herds act as herds.

    The ones I condemn are the selfish twunks who not only filled their vehicles, but also jerry cans (one I've heard filled three!) and are in fact breaking the law transporting them in their vehicles and storing it at home.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 51,736

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I was told today by the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association that an estimated 25-30% of its members haven’t been able to work today due to fuel shortages.

    “We keep being told by the Department for Transport that this isn’t a crisis - but it is a crisis for people who can’t work”

    https://twitter.com/HelenAnnSmith0/status/1442518605271158792

    If everyone who didn’t *need* petrol today, didn’t try to buy it today, there wouldn’t be a problem.

    There is only a ‘crisis’ because the media arsonists are shouting fire in the theatre.
    Would you recommend a supine media that is told not to report that there are tanker and lorry driver shortages? Whether we like it or not, it is a story, as is the response of government.
    The report, on Thursday, came from a depot in Kent that was a few drivers short, followed by a confidential briefing to government by BP, that things were just about okay so long as there was no panic buying.

    Someone leaked that message to a media outlet, and the next thing you know all the headlines are about PANIC BUYING.

    Yes, it’s utterly irresponsible, ditto with significant amounts of the pandemic coverage. This fuel ‘crisis’ is a self-fulfilling prophecy, by a media more interested in clicks and retweets, than responsible journalism that might think about the effect of their words on public order. But hey, they get to bash the government, so all good.
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    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I was told today by the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association that an estimated 25-30% of its members haven’t been able to work today due to fuel shortages.

    “We keep being told by the Department for Transport that this isn’t a crisis - but it is a crisis for people who can’t work”

    https://twitter.com/HelenAnnSmith0/status/1442518605271158792

    If everyone who didn’t *need* petrol today, didn’t try to buy it today, there wouldn’t be a problem.

    There is only a ‘crisis’ because the media arsonists are shouting fire in the theatre.
    Would you recommend a supine media that is told not to report that there are tanker and lorry driver shortages? Whether we like it or not, it is a story, as is the response of government.
    It's not a story. The media invented it.

    No need for a supine media but one which understood that the difference between journalism and entertainment would be a good start.

    If the media had spent the time they spent shouting fire reporting on that poor woman who was murdered instead then the country would be in a better place and better informed.

    But I won't hold my breath. An irresponsible media is nothing new.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,085

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I was told today by the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association that an estimated 25-30% of its members haven’t been able to work today due to fuel shortages.

    “We keep being told by the Department for Transport that this isn’t a crisis - but it is a crisis for people who can’t work”

    https://twitter.com/HelenAnnSmith0/status/1442518605271158792

    If everyone who didn’t *need* petrol today, didn’t try to buy it today, there wouldn’t be a problem.

    There is only a ‘crisis’ because the media arsonists are shouting fire in the theatre.
    Would you recommend a supine media that is told not to report that there are tanker and lorry driver shortages? Whether we like it or not, it is a story, as is the response of government.
    It's not a story. The media invented it.

    No need for a supine media but one which understood that the difference between journalism and entertainment would be a good start.

    If the media had spent the time they spent shouting fire reporting on that poor woman who was murdered instead then the country would be in a better place and better informed.

    But I won't hold my breath. An irresponsible media is nothing new.
    Do you think there is a fuel tanker driver shortage?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,194
    edited September 2021
    Breaking: Lab S Cab member Andy McDonald resigns the Shad Cab and sends a stinging public letter to Starmer
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 26,554
    IanB2 said:

    Breaking: Lab S Cab member Andy McDonald resigns the Shad Cab and sends a stinging public letter to Starmer

    In which he asks for a £15 minimum wage.
This discussion has been closed.