Why are you surprised? It's the magazine that supported Andrew Wakefield.
Interestingly, when it wrote about prostate cancer, only 4 days ago, or to the effect of Covid on men's health, it referred to men. Not one of their body parts. But it is apparently ok for a medical magazine to describe women as little more than holes.
Someone suggested not entirely seriously "chicks without dicks" might be an alternative....
Both reduce women to body parts and bodily functions.
I don't really want to get into trans discussions on here as I find this place generally reactive and intolerant.
However, it's worth noting that hardline feminists have boxed themselves into this corner (unwittingly maybe) by reducing true womanhood to, essentially, the sex of being born with a vagina.
Once you go down that line you are instantly defining gender (as a construct) and sex (as something innate) to the bits of the body which you select as defining.
If we all took a step back, turned down the heat, and that includes MTF transgendered women, and became a little more accepting of diversity we'd all find the situation a lot more pleasant.
Gender, like sex, is very nuanced.
We really don't have to behave on here with the simplistic brain of Piers Morgan.
…Far too many wimpy woke F**kwits about who are just desperate to be offended.
NEW: Keir Starmer has abandoned his controversial electoral college reforms overnight.
A spokesman says he will still bring other measures to "better connect us with working people and re-orient us toward the voters who can take us to power".
He's not very savvy, and is prone to picking fights with the party's powerful and most foolish idealogues that he can't beat, but then he is quite a crisp performer at PMQs and being "truly pathetic" got him from state school to senior lawyer.
His biggest problem is that he is hated by the eye-swivellers and doesn't understand that he is surrounded by duplicitous backstabbers, which probably in itself makes him unsuitable for his current role.
I am interested as to why loyal Conservatives like yourself are as vexed by the man as you are. Particularly as your own Prime Minister isn't really a role model for hard work, propriety and competence.
I am vexed because we need a choice. Labour did not offer a choice in either 2017 or 2019. A real choice is not only democratic but forces the government of the day to be better, to be more responsive and less casual in their incompetence.
I think Starmer has a lot going for him as a person. He is intelligent, well meaning, responsible and public spirited. He promised so much more than Corbyn did. But he is proving to be very bad at politics and that means we do not have a choice. Again.
I am not sure your post adds up to your conclusion.
Starmer has been a disappointment, but I am not sure Rayner, Burnham and Co would cut the mustard for you either. Streeting on the other hand might be a different prospect, but the swivel eyed loons hate him note than Starmer.
The lack of alternatives and the incredible weakness of the Shadow cabinet is a major part of the problem. When the government wants to pretend competence they can put the likes of Rishi out and that gives Boris indirect support. SKS is fighting something of a lone battle although Raynor is of more help to him than most.
We really aren't singing from the same hymn sheet.
It is interesting you quote Sunak because he is far and away the smoothest operator in the cabinet. It is true that Johnson got rid of some dead wood earlier in the month, but I am unconvinced by Liz Truss' self- promotion, and throwing out Buckland and promoting Dorries suggests Johnson has no intention of surrounding himself with competence.
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 17m Breakthrough at Tulo: MP nominations threshold for leadership election and challenge raised, registered supporters ditched, deselection made harder. Electoral college: dead.
Indeed, you almost wonder if floating a return to the EC was a gambit to get this through as a compromise.
Perhaps KS is better at the internal politics than he looks.
I would like to think so, but on previous recent form, i would be quite sceptical of that. Either way, I hope he's learning fast.
Good morning everyone, from a rather cloudy NE Coast. Supposed to be on holiday, but Mrs C is doing something else so I'm having a look at PB.
Is not part at least of SKS's problem his training and experience. An experienced politician, even one as naive about the world as Jeremy Corbyn, has spent years balancing the interests of groups, for some of whom at least, principle is more important than logic. SKS has come from a world where, generally speaking, logical argument prevails. If that is, the lawyers who post were are any guide. The only time they have to relate to the outside world is when they are considering the effects of what they are saying on a jury, and juries are an unpredictable and different species.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 17m Breakthrough at Tulo: MP nominations threshold for leadership election and challenge raised, registered supporters ditched, deselection made harder. Electoral college: dead.
Indeed, you almost wonder if floating a return to the EC was a gambit to get this through as a compromise.
Perhaps KS is better at the internal politics than he looks.
I would like to think so, but on previous recent form, i would be quite sceptical of that. Either way, I hope he's learning fast.
Good morning everyone, from a rather cloudy NE Coast. Supposed to be on holiday, but Mrs C is doing something else so I'm having a look at PB.
Is not part at least of SKS's problem his training and experience. An experienced politician, even one as naive about the world as Jeremy Corbyn, has spent years balancing the interests of groups, for some of whom at least, principle is more important than logic. SKS has come from a world where, generally speaking, logical argument prevails. If that is, the lawyers who post were are any guide. The only time they have to relate to the outside world is when they are considering the effects of what they are saying on a jury, and juries are an unpredictable and different species.
See that some garages are putting a maximum on petrol sales, £30 in one case. Panic buying would be avoided by doing the opposite: minimum £50 sale (£75 for 4x4s). If you want to top up 20 litres for £50, that’s up to you.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
BoZo just abandoned it
You just do not accept we have left the EU and the visa quota scheme addresses our labour needs with minimum salary of £25,600 and can apply worldwide and is specific
You would rather use cheap EU labour to keep down wages to the detriment of our low paid
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 17m Breakthrough at Tulo: MP nominations threshold for leadership election and challenge raised, registered supporters ditched, deselection made harder. Electoral college: dead.
Indeed, you almost wonder if floating a return to the EC was a gambit to get this through as a compromise.
Perhaps KS is better at the internal politics than he looks.
I would like to think so, but on previous recent form, i would be quite sceptical of that. Either way, I hope he's learning fast.
Good morning everyone, from a rather cloudy NE Coast. Supposed to be on holiday, but Mrs C is doing something else so I'm having a look at PB.
Is not part at least of SKS's problem his training and experience. An experienced politician, even one as naive about the world as Jeremy Corbyn, has spent years balancing the interests of groups, for some of whom at least, principle is more important than logic. SKS has come from a world where, generally speaking, logical argument prevails. If that is, the lawyers who post were are any guide. The only time they have to relate to the outside world is when they are considering the effects of what they are saying on a jury, and juries are an unpredictable and different species.
Ive been in the office every day this week despite very few people choosing to, mainly because the IT equipment is better so I’m more productive.
I now find that I can spend 2.5 hours driving back and forward to Edinburgh in a day and I still get more work done than I do in my office in the house. Its irrational but at work I have a work mindset, I get on with it. Here, the temptation of PB and many other distractions seems ever present.
Very well put. My procrastination is through the roof, then I need to evening work after dinner. All about headspace.
Perhaps easier for those straight out of university ? Who haven’t had time to get used to the work/life bifurcation. (Though unlikely to have the same quality of home office…)
Except that undergraduates at least at the last university I worked at are desperate above all else for library space to work in.
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 17m Breakthrough at Tulo: MP nominations threshold for leadership election and challenge raised, registered supporters ditched, deselection made harder. Electoral college: dead.
Yes, Starmer will be happy with all of that. I'm not sure why his manoeuvres have attracted such opprobrium on here. He was always unlikely to get changes to the electoral college through Conference, so it isn't coming to Conference. We try to do a bit of democratic decision making in Labour. It would have been much worse to proceed with this, as it would dominate Conference and he'd probably have lost. The TUs have apparently said no, so he's pulled it. It's really not some great defeat. But he's had a very significant victory in the changes outlined above. He's strengthened his grip on the party.
See that some garages are putting a maximum on petrol sales, £30 in one case. Panic buying would be avoided by doing the opposite: minimum £50 sale (£75 for 4x4s). If you want to top up 20 litres for £50, that’s up to you.
Should probably be £30 for smaller cars, but yes, that as a short-term measure would solve it.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
It's not going to work. Why should EU drivers who are already in demand at home take up the bureaucratically burdensome, strictly time limited and clearly unwelcome offer from the UK government?
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
This has been the conservative policy throughout and is now being applied to the need
I see is as complete vindication for Brexit and it is working as designed
I would like to see some work colleagues again in the flesh but wouldn't ever want to go back to being in 4 or 5 days/week. I completely understand it being different for the young workers. What will be interesting is how it is balanced between the (older) management wanting to be at home a few days each week and the youngsters who are in most days.
Funny. In my work the opposite was true (accountant). The more senior managers are in most days (three kept coming in back in January and February despite being told several times they really shouldn’t) whilst the ‘kids’ are never seen! It took an email from the Managing Director earlier this month to get them to creep back in.
I’ve three work colleagues in their twenties I’ve not seen in person since February 2020, and one lady who started in April I’ve never met.
NEW: Keir Starmer has abandoned his controversial electoral college reforms overnight.
A spokesman says he will still bring other measures to "better connect us with working people and re-orient us toward the voters who can take us to power".
He's not very savvy, and is prone to picking fights with the party's powerful and most foolish idealogues that he can't beat, but then he is quite a crisp performer at PMQs and being "truly pathetic" got him from state school to senior lawyer.
His biggest problem is that he is hated by the eye-swivellers and doesn't understand that he is surrounded by duplicitous backstabbers, which probably in itself makes him unsuitable for his current role.
I am interested as to why loyal Conservatives like yourself are as vexed by the man as you are. Particularly as your own Prime Minister isn't really a role model for hard work, propriety and competence.
I am vexed because we need a choice. Labour did not offer a choice in either 2017 or 2019. A real choice is not only democratic but forces the government of the day to be better, to be more responsive and less casual in their incompetence.
I think Starmer has a lot going for him as a person. He is intelligent, well meaning, responsible and public spirited. He promised so much more than Corbyn did. But he is proving to be very bad at politics and that means we do not have a choice. Again.
I am not sure your post adds up to your conclusion.
Starmer has been a disappointment, but I am not sure Rayner, Burnham and Co would cut the mustard for you either. Streeting on the other hand might be a different prospect, but the swivel eyed loons hate him note than Starmer.
The lack of alternatives and the incredible weakness of the Shadow cabinet is a major part of the problem. When the government wants to pretend competence they can put the likes of Rishi out and that gives Boris indirect support. SKS is fighting something of a lone battle although Raynor is of more help to him than most.
We really aren't singing from the same hymn sheet.
It is interesting you quote Sunak because he is far and away the smoothest operator in the cabinet. It is true that Johnson got rid of some dead wood earlier in the month, but I am unconvinced by Liz Truss' self- promotion, and throwing out Buckland and promoting Dorries suggests Johnson has no intention of surrounding himself with competence.
Dorries was a bizarre appointment. I can only presume that there is some unseen metaphysical scale in which the removal of Williamson required the appointment of another numpty. We are probably fortunate it was deemed that a single replacement was sufficient.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
To be fair; when the facts change .......
No that is not fair, imo.
If we had let foreign drivers in we wouldn't have had the petrol shortages. The government has been warned for weeks that we have a shortage which will hit our supply chains. Sooner or later something like this was going to happen.
We had three choices before the facts changed:
1) Let the foreign drivers in before the problems 2) Wait for problems first, then let foreign drivers in 3) Never let foreign drivers in as we believe in British drivers first.
I would have chosen 1 as a pragmatist but I would have more respect for choice 3 than 2 as 1 is clearly better than 2 (same outcome without problems hitting) but 1 and 3 have different benefits and costs so are more a matter of choice.
On topic, and thanks for the header, there was an interesting discussion on R5 yesterday. They had the standard right wing think tank person and someone from the Guardian to represent the leftish point of view (I sometimes struggle to decide if Labour or the Guardian is actually representing leftish views in this country).
What was interesting was that the Guardian writer was far more enthusiastic about Boris's speech in the UN (apart from the Kermit joke) than the think tank chap. She acknowledged that when Boris put his enthusiasm behind something he could be genuinely influential and get things done. Of course this was all laced with comments about him having the concentration span of a goldfish and his inclination to move on all too rapidly to his next enthusiasm but she emphasised that right now he was in the right place and "we should all be rowing in behind him" on this.
Whether you agree with this or not it seems to me that this is the quintessential problem for the Greens: are they a pressure group trying to influence government policy or are they a real political party? I think that they are more effective as the former and they clearly have influenced the national discussion. Voting green is not a wasted vote in this scenario, not at all. It is an indication that the mainstream politicians should pay attention.
It is also an indication of the problem for Starmer. Someone who is ideologically promiscuous as Boris (is ideologically really needed) will have no problem in seizing an agenda like this, even if it does not fit with traditional emphasis on the economy and business of Tories such as think tank guy. Creating a distinctive position that might seize the imagination of the public is going to be very difficult for Starmer.
I agree with all that, but it could be a problem for Boris as well. Over on Conservative Home, there is constant moaning about all the "green crap" that the government is going along with. More Conservatives than Labourites do not support the green agenda in the slightest, and some may turn on Boris.
The anti-Green brigade have a couple of interesting points to make, which over time will become collectively more important.
Broadly they are:
The science may be wrong The science may be right but the benefits may be much greater than believed The solution to problems since 1800 have been more not less management and technology; this one is the same
and the killer, not sufficiently appreciated yet:
If the forecasts are correct it is going to happen anyway, with the maximum difference being + or - a few years. After all the hype of the last few decades, more CO2 goes into the air this year than ever before. It is obvious that this will not stop soon enough.
BTW it is obvious from the lifestyle of elites, political and other, that they do not believe their own rhetoric.
I expect us to see a lot more about how we don't need to stop global warming but adapt to it. And the elite are perfectly content for there to be sacrifices. Just not by them.
One thing I can guarantee: the people refusing to make any changes to their lifestyle to combat the climate crisis will be the same ones who refuse to take in any climate refugees, saying it's nothing to do with us.
From the perspective of one of the majority of Africans who have never been in a car or a plane or a building with running tap water or mains electricity the distinction between you and the people you're criticising is invisible.
No, because I know what climate change means for the ability of those Africans to feed themselves and I won't make a fuss when some of them end up here.
My point was that your lifestyle modifications may not look that impressive to them. You are currently on pb as am I. That has a cost in electricity running devices and servers. Many Africans are not on the internet for hours a day. And so on.
I am under no illusions that my lifestyle is completely unsustainable (although I do have a 100% renewable electricity tariff and haven't flown in two years so I am trying). I know there is no point in me making huge changes to my lifestyle on my own, it will take the whole of humanity acting collectively via governments to even semi-solve the problem, which is the best we can hope for. But at least I understand that our failure to prevent climate instability will have consequences and we can't shirk our share of responsibility for that. I think there will be a huge wave of "not my problem guv" attitudes in the West when the bill for climate inaction comes due in the form of widespread migration from affected areas of the planet. It won't be pretty.
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 17m Breakthrough at Tulo: MP nominations threshold for leadership election and challenge raised, registered supporters ditched, deselection made harder. Electoral college: dead.
Indeed, you almost wonder if floating a return to the EC was a gambit to get this through as a compromise.
Perhaps KS is better at the internal politics than he looks.
I would like to think so, but on previous recent form, i would be quite sceptical of that. Either way, I hope he's learning fast.
Good morning everyone, from a rather cloudy NE Coast. Supposed to be on holiday, but Mrs C is doing something else so I'm having a look at PB.
Is not part at least of SKS's problem his training and experience. An experienced politician, even one as naive about the world as Jeremy Corbyn, has spent years balancing the interests of groups, for some of whom at least, principle is more important than logic. SKS has come from a world where, generally speaking, logical argument prevails. If that is, the lawyers who post were are any guide. The only time they have to relate to the outside world is when they are considering the effects of what they are saying on a jury, and juries are an unpredictable and different species.
Or have I too high an opinion of lawyers?
I broadly agree here, especially in the good description of types of skill, with the proviso that I think a sign of his inexperience was believing the advice of the Blairites that removing OMOV was really logical, rather than factional or of New Labour principle. I think he needs both to be uninhibited enough to get a wider range of advice, and, also, to a certain extent and simultaneously, actually to be more detached from all that advice, and follow his own logic. That reminds me of Wilson's skills again.
I would like to see some work colleagues again in the flesh but wouldn't ever want to go back to being in 4 or 5 days/week. I completely understand it being different for the young workers. What will be interesting is how it is balanced between the (older) management wanting to be at home a few days each week and the youngsters who are in most days.
Funny. In my work the opposite was true (accountant). The more senior managers are in most days (three kept coming in back in January and February despite being told several times they really shouldn’t) whilst the ‘kids’ are never seen! It took an email from the Managing Director earlier this month to get them to creep back in.
I’ve three work colleagues in their twenties I’ve not seen in person since February 2020, and one lady who started in April I’ve never met.
Whilst senior managers are more likely to have space for a home office than a younger person, if you're not got much experience of office working you're perhaps more inclined not to want to bother with the commute unless required to.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
This has been the conservative policy throughout and is now being applied to the need
I see is as complete vindication for Brexit and it is working as designed
I must congratulate you. You’ve got the Comical Ali tribute off to a tee!
See that some garages are putting a maximum on petrol sales, £30 in one case. Panic buying would be avoided by doing the opposite: minimum £50 sale (£75 for 4x4s). If you want to top up 20 litres for £50, that’s up to you.
See that some garages are putting a maximum on petrol sales, £30 in one case. Panic buying would be avoided by doing the opposite: minimum £50 sale (£75 for 4x4s). If you want to top up 20 litres for £50, that’s up to you.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
Apart from the fact it is clearly NOT working, yes. Hence the Communist East Europe style shortages.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
I voted Remain but can understand the issue was really about control as much as a view about FOM. The vaccine rollout showed how the government could act at a speed which in those critical weeks the EU was unable to match. This decision shows a similar ability. Personally I think, in this case that decision is not correct but it has the merit of being under the control of the government rather than the EU. Policies do of course matter but it seems for some the only accpetable rosette is the one with EU written on it.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
This has been the conservative policy throughout and is now being applied to the need
I see is as complete vindication for Brexit and it is working as designed
I must congratulate you. You’ve got the Comical Ali tribute off to a tee!
I have to say, with the greatest of respect, those trying to dismiss this are those who have not accepted brexit and think this is a way to undermine it, with the vain hope we will rejoin
See that some garages are putting a maximum on petrol sales, £30 in one case. Panic buying would be avoided by doing the opposite: minimum £50 sale (£75 for 4x4s). If you want to top up 20 litres for £50, that’s up to you.
Good idea. As it stands, £30 at Asda followed by queueing for another hour at Tesco and adding another £30.
On the Greens. Were I the outstanding political talent of the generation, the new Blair, I would be co-opting the Green Party rather than Labour.
They need a Clause 4 moment, namely making a break with hair shirt wearing, the public nuisance and the condescension. And to make a bold pact with big business and underline the financial upside of going green. Become a realistic alternative to right leaning under 50 workers just as much as Momentum. Tricky balance and I don’t see the outstanding talent on the horizon to do it.
Boris is already there. That's what the Kermit joke was about. Kermit sang it's not easy being green but Boris says he was wrong. It is easy. And profitable. And creates new opportunities.
I do agree that a Green party who focused much more on how to do things in a more sustainable way would be a lot more attractive than one that just seems to want to stop everything.
The Kermit reference did make me chuckle . Although it sort of implies that Boris/Tories are not 100% earnest about being really green (if they make a joke about it) which is probably actually where they hope the electorate thisnk they are - ie its on the radar but lets not go all Greta Thurnberg about it and ban holidays etc
That took me back.
I used the Kermit quote on a poster promoting a lunchtime meeting at work about Green question in 1991, to provide some intellectual reflection at the time when we were setting up a "can crusher" rota as part of the works Green Team. This was at a large electronics manufacturer in Nottingham.
(Since when we have more than halved our CO2 emissions in this country, 1991 being the high point - and the Green Party have not engaged with that.)
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
Apart from the fact it is clearly NOT working, yes. Hence the Communist East Europe style shortages.
East european style shortages. Lol
There’s panic buying on petrol due to deliberately provocative statements from the fuel industry to he force the govts hand and the supermarkets are full. Just been to do the weekly shop and my Sainsbury’s is full of product.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
This has been the conservative policy throughout and is now being applied to the need
I see is as complete vindication for Brexit and it is working as designed
And this is why the Tories will win the next election! Not opinion polls or incumbency advantages in the new red wall seats or anything like that. It is the willingness of much of the Tory electorate to seamlessly jump from one policy to the next and apparently believe they have always supported the new policy.
If Labour, or the LDs, or Greens, try and introduce any new policy, it generally descends into factional rows and loss of morale, even splits.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
It's not going to work. Why should EU drivers who are already in demand at home take up the bureaucratically burdensome, strictly time limited and clearly unwelcome offer from the UK government?
It is a fair point with a half million driver shortages in EU but this is applicable way beyond the EU
is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
BoZo just abandoned it
You just do not accept we have left the EU and the visa quota scheme addresses our labour needs with minimum salary of £25,600 and can apply worldwide and is specific
You would rather use cheap EU labour to keep down wages to the detriment of our low paid
It is a disgrace anyone would want that again
I'll ask again, since everyone making this claim seems to go to ground when I've previously asked: where is the evidence that low-paid wages have gone up since Brexit?
I tried a few times recently to get to the bottom of this claim, but all I've seen is a wage slump and rebound due to Covid. I don't know if you're right or wrong, but they way you and others keep dodging the question is making me suspicious.
And now I really do have to go.
I was quite taken by an interview with Peter Lilley I saw yesterday. His sudden concern for improving the pay and conditions of lorry drivers was really striking, given some 40 years in frontline politics during which time the issue had never appeared to concern him in the slightest.
I've made this point before, but it's worth repeating it on this thread where it's on topic.
One big problem for the Greens is that Labour have sharpened up their act in fighting against the Greens where the Greens build some strength.
Norwich is an instructive example. At the 2010GE, when the incumbent MP was the Blairite Charles Clarke, the Greens increased their vote to 14.9% - I believe their second highest vote share at that election. At the time they had 14 of the 39 councillors.
With the left-wing, convincingly Green, Clive Lewis as the Labour MP, the Greens failed to save their deposit in the last two general elections. Their advance on the city council has also been pushed back. From a peak of 15 councillors they're now at 10 (though that's a recovery from a 2018 nadir of 5).
You can see similar sensible choices of candidate in other seats that would otherwise be good prospects for the Greens: Cambridge and Bristol West being they most obvious, but I'm sure there are others.
It looks like Labour aren't going to give the Greens a dull centrist to run against in these seats, and that's likely a factor that will stop the Greens from breaking through in an additional seat - though forcing Labour to select Green-friendly MPs is a little more than nothing.
The last paragraph is the most interesting one. I am a habitual tactical voter but I am coming to realise that this just plays into the hands of the big 2 parties. At the moment unless one of them endorses wholesale STV PR like the lucky Irish have I will be "wasting" my vote. (Or sending a "tiny" signal to the opposition).
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
Apart from the fact it is clearly NOT working, yes. Hence the Communist East Europe style shortages.
East european style shortages. Lol
There’s panic buying on petrol due to deliberately provocative statements from the fuel industry to he force the govts hand and the supermarkets are full. Just been to do the weekly shop and my Sainsbury’s is full of product.
As ever the Remain tactic of jumping on every issue with a big dollop of hyperbole renders their arguments as just so much dross and will serve only to reinforce the determination of opponents to hold firm. Exactly the same thing as led to the original vote. Brexit could so much more easily have been 'killed by kindness' but we are where we are.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
This has been the conservative policy throughout and is now being applied to the need
I see is as complete vindication for Brexit and it is working as designed
I must congratulate you. You’ve got the Comical Ali tribute off to a tee!
I have to say, with the greatest of respect, those trying to dismiss this are those who have not accepted brexit and think this is a way to undermine it, with the vain hope we will rejoin
We have accepted Brexit. We just think it's fucking stupid and will take a certain grim satisfaction in pointing out its widely-predicted negative consequences, as they occur. Brexiteers are free to take similar delight in its upsides, should they ever manifest themselves.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
Apart from the fact it is clearly NOT working, yes. Hence the Communist East Europe style shortages.
Bloody Eastern European shortages, coming over here.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
I voted Remain but can understand the issue was really about control as much as a view about FOM. The vaccine rollout showed how the government could act at a speed which in those critical weeks the EU was unable to match. This decision shows a similar ability. Personally I think, in this case that decision is not correct but it has the merit of being under the control of the government rather than the EU. Policies do of course matter but it seems for some the only accpetable rosette is the one with EU written on it.
I couldn't care less about whether we are in the EU anymore. We voted to leave and have left.
What I do care about is the government being honest about the long term economy and structure of the country. We need immigration, not because of the EU, or because its popular or good for business, but because our demographics demand it. There is no realistic alternative.
We will get immigration, or we hit problems like this that will not be tolerated. So temporary schemes will be put in place, that will be extended ad nauseum, because the government can't admit the reality that immigration is needed.
The last paragraph is the most interesting one. I am a habitual tactical voter but I am coming to realise that this just plays into the hands of the big 2 parties. At the moment unless one of them endorses wholesale STV PR like the lucky Irish have I will be "wasting" my vote. (Or sending a "tiny" signal to the opposition).
There is another value to voting for the Greens - Short Money. Because they have one MP every vote for the Greens is worth a bit more than 18p per year, and this funding should help them to make a better case to voters.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
This has been the conservative policy throughout and is now being applied to the need
I see is as complete vindication for Brexit and it is working as designed
I must congratulate you. You’ve got the Comical Ali tribute off to a tee!
I have to say, with the greatest of respect, those trying to dismiss this are those who have not accepted brexit and think this is a way to undermine it, with the vain hope we will rejoin
So all criticism of the glorious leader and the various shambles he has overseen is solely motivated by not accepting Brexit and has no objective validity? Probly should abolish elections cos the 60ish % of people not voting for BJ and his shower of incompetents will only be trying to undermine Brexit.
We have accepted Brexit. We just think it's fucking stupid and will take a certain grim satisfaction in pointing out its widely-predicted negative consequences, as they occur. Brexiteers are free to take similar delight in its upsides, should they ever manifest themselves.
It occurred to me this morning that the BoZo fanbois can still cheer their man for now.
He is still riding high (ish) but one day his star will wane again.
In the meantime, Brexit will be a shitshow for the rest of our lives.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
This has been the conservative policy throughout and is now being applied to the need
I see is as complete vindication for Brexit and it is working as designed
I must congratulate you. You’ve got the Comical Ali tribute off to a tee!
I have to say, with the greatest of respect, those trying to dismiss this are those who have not accepted brexit and think this is a way to undermine it, with the vain hope we will rejoin
Rejoin is a fringe view. Wanting a government taking pragmatic and grown up decisions that avoid problems rather than reacting to them after they happen is not.
Off topic, petrol update. Just had calls from my other half, in tears initially, trying to find petrol. She set off at 7am this morning to go to an event, 50 miles away, and needed petrol. The first 6 petrol stations were no good - 2 closed, 4 with horrendous queues. At 7.30, she was about to give up and come home. I directed her to a nearby Asda - bit of a queue, but no problem at all, so she's happy now and on her way. But astonishing that so many people decided to go to fill up their cars so early on a Saturday morning.
Conclusions: a) there is no petrol shortage b) there is panic buying ('fuelled' by the media, BP/Shell, and the government) c) the great British public (some of them) are bonkers.
Not sure how the government is to blame for panic buying.
I get that people want to fill up because they might not be able to tomorrow, but what I don’t get is the queuing. Unless you absolutely need to fill up now, why bother?
Because if the delivery driver shortage means only, random guess, 80% of normal fuel quantities can be delivered, it means there isn't the fuel available for 20% of journeys. It's rational not to want to be in that 20%. The difference between panic buying and sensible precaution is one of attitude.
See that some garages are putting a maximum on petrol sales, £30 in one case. Panic buying would be avoided by doing the opposite: minimum £50 sale (£75 for 4x4s). If you want to top up 20 litres for £50, that’s up to you.
Bit rough on those of us with small economical cars - on mine the fuel tank only holds about £35 (probably a little more than this in reality, as I've never felt the urge to experiment too deeply with how far it will go once the gauge says empty).
I filled up last night, because the cheapest filling station I pass is outside work, and my car didn't have sufficient range left for my intended use this weekend and to get back to work on Monday.
We have accepted Brexit. We just think it's fucking stupid and will take a certain grim satisfaction in pointing out its widely-predicted negative consequences, as they occur. Brexiteers are free to take similar delight in its upsides, should they ever manifest themselves.
It occurred to me this morning that the BoZo fanbois can still cheer their man for now.
He is still riding high (ish) but one day his star will wane again.
In the meantime, Brexit will be a shitshow for the rest of our lives.
We are never going to run out of material...
Doesn’t this dickhead ever take a day off or do anything productive with his life ?
We have accepted Brexit. We just think it's fucking stupid and will take a certain grim satisfaction in pointing out its widely-predicted negative consequences, as they occur. Brexiteers are free to take similar delight in its upsides, should they ever manifest themselves.
It occurred to me this morning that the BoZo fanbois can still cheer their man for now.
He is still riding high (ish) but one day his star will wane again.
In the meantime, Brexit will be a shitshow for the rest of our lives.
We are never going to run out of material...
Doesn’t this dickhead ever take a day off or do anything productive with his life ?
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
This has been the conservative policy throughout and is now being applied to the need
I see is as complete vindication for Brexit and it is working as designed
And this is why the Tories will win the next election! Not opinion polls or incumbency advantages in the new red wall seats or anything like that. It is the willingness of much of the Tory electorate to seamlessly jump from one policy to the next and apparently believe they have always supported the new policy.
If Labour, or the LDs, or Greens, try and introduce any new policy, it generally descends into factional rows and loss of morale, even splits.
I can just say with absolute honesty this policy is the one I have understood from the beginning and agreed with
I am receiving some snide remarks this morning from some, but this is not me adjusting my mindset as I have always understood it and it is genuinely a brexit dividend, as we can attract skilled workers to our need at a good wage
I believe Angela Rayner is making a point about a £10 per hour wage if they are elected in 24 but how many know that the minimum salary for these visa quotas is one of £25,600 - £10.10 per hour or the average wage of the sector , whichever is higher
This scheme is already attacking employees at a higher rate than that suggested by Rayner for 24
Ive been in the office every day this week despite very few people choosing to, mainly because the IT equipment is better so I’m more productive.
That’s interesting. In my place the consensus is the opposite. People’s home IT setup is superior to the office and the connection speed for video calls better too.
The guy who sits opposite me talks so damn loudly that every time I’m on a Zoom call clients complain about the background noise.
Get a directional microphone that picks up you and not the person opposite. I can't help with the loud person behind you.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
To be fair; when the facts change .......
No that is not fair, imo.
If we had let foreign drivers in we wouldn't have had the petrol shortages. The government has been warned for weeks that we have a shortage which will hit our supply chains. Sooner or later something like this was going to happen.
We had three choices before the facts changed:
1) Let the foreign drivers in before the problems 2) Wait for problems first, then let foreign drivers in 3) Never let foreign drivers in as we believe in British drivers first.
I would have chosen 1 as a pragmatist but I would have more respect for choice 3 than 2 as 1 is clearly better than 2 (same outcome without problems hitting) but 1 and 3 have different benefits and costs so are more a matter of choice.
I think we see the defining principle of Johnsonism in action:
Never make a decision until forced to do so, and then do the only option still possible.
Johnson is that cork in a storm, with events taking control, managing to stay on top until smashed on the rocks.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
This has been the conservative policy throughout and is now being applied to the need
I see is as complete vindication for Brexit and it is working as designed
I must congratulate you. You’ve got the Comical Ali tribute off to a tee!
I have to say, with the greatest of respect, those trying to dismiss this are those who have not accepted brexit and think this is a way to undermine it, with the vain hope we will rejoin
Rejoin is a fringe view. Wanting a government taking pragmatic and grown up decisions that avoid problems rather than reacting to them after they happen is not.
Absolutely. If the government doesn't confront that tendency to reactive failure early, with the unprecedentedly wide range of problems that are coming this winter, they could be out.
We have accepted Brexit. We just think it's fucking stupid and will take a certain grim satisfaction in pointing out its widely-predicted negative consequences, as they occur. Brexiteers are free to take similar delight in its upsides, should they ever manifest themselves.
It occurred to me this morning that the BoZo fanbois can still cheer their man for now.
He is still riding high (ish) but one day his star will wane again.
In the meantime, Brexit will be a shitshow for the rest of our lives.
We are never going to run out of material...
Doesn’t this dickhead ever take a day off or do anything productive with his life ?
See that some garages are putting a maximum on petrol sales, £30 in one case. Panic buying would be avoided by doing the opposite: minimum £50 sale (£75 for 4x4s). If you want to top up 20 litres for £50, that’s up to you.
NEW: Keir Starmer has abandoned his controversial electoral college reforms overnight.
A spokesman says he will still bring other measures to "better connect us with working people and re-orient us toward the voters who can take us to power".
Indeed. If you are going to pick fights with your party make damn sure you win them.
As with Boris in the Commons, I suspect this matters to his own side's MPs but will have little direct cut-through to the public. Of course, in both cases, MPs matter more until an election is called.
We have accepted Brexit. We just think it's fucking stupid and will take a certain grim satisfaction in pointing out its widely-predicted negative consequences, as they occur. Brexiteers are free to take similar delight in its upsides, should they ever manifest themselves.
It occurred to me this morning that the BoZo fanbois can still cheer their man for now.
He is still riding high (ish) but one day his star will wane again.
In the meantime, Brexit will be a shitshow for the rest of our lives.
We are never going to run out of material...
I would just say to you that there are far more important things in life than stressing about Brexit for the rest of it
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
To be fair; when the facts change .......
No that is not fair, imo.
If we had let foreign drivers in we wouldn't have had the petrol shortages. The government has been warned for weeks that we have a shortage which will hit our supply chains. Sooner or later something like this was going to happen.
We had three choices before the facts changed:
1) Let the foreign drivers in before the problems 2) Wait for problems first, then let foreign drivers in 3) Never let foreign drivers in as we believe in British drivers first.
I would have chosen 1 as a pragmatist but I would have more respect for choice 3 than 2 as 1 is clearly better than 2 (same outcome without problems hitting) but 1 and 3 have different benefits and costs so are more a matter of choice.
I think we see the defining principle of Johnsonism in action:
Never make a decision until forced to do so, and then do the only option still possible.
Johnson is that cork in a storm, with events taking control, managing to stay on top until smashed on the rocks.
To be fair to Boris this is just what happens when governments control things. Rational, well-executed micro-management of migration doesn't exist anywhere in the world. The most optimistic thing you can say is that they can sort-of do very broad, slow-changing things like more or less low-paid labour, but even that tends to be full of fail.
I think the voters generally understand why the government is bad at micromanaging things, they just don't realise the general principles also apply to migration until they experience it up close.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
This has been the conservative policy throughout and is now being applied to the need
I see is as complete vindication for Brexit and it is working as designed
I must congratulate you. You’ve got the Comical Ali tribute off to a tee!
I have to say, with the greatest of respect, those trying to dismiss this are those who have not accepted brexit and think this is a way to undermine it, with the vain hope we will rejoin
Just so we're clear...
Is there any degree of Brexit fallout which would make it legitimate to say "hey guys, this may be something we need to reverse"?
Is there any degree of swing in public opinion where it would be legitimate for a UK government to reverse Brexit?
I don't think we're anywhere near either of those conditions right now, and those on the fringes who are arguing for a quick rejoin are probably doing more harm than good to their cause. And there's plenty of prickles that the UK could remove.
But to say "this policy is irreversible, permanent for all time" flies in the face of history, doesn't it? Governments of all colours have thought they had changed things forever and proved wrong.
It also takes away agency and sovereignty from future generations, which is a pretty selfish thing for this generation of voters to be doing.
If the policy of the Johnson government succeeds, it will deservedly stick. If it fails, it equally deservedly won't. That's democracy, and trying to shut down inconvenient voices isn't.
You want cheap peasants on demand to provide your every whim for as little as possible.
You couldn't care less if that's causing a brain drain and poor demographics elsewhere, or if overcrowding is leading to people being unable to pay for a roof over there heads here.
I'd have no problems with unlimited immigration so long as that was partnered with unlimited construction, the abolition of the green belt, and the abolition of the requirement to get planning permission to build first. But seems I'm in a minority of one for that so ... If you're going to put in place barriers for building houses, you need barriers in place for how many people will need those houses.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
This has been the conservative policy throughout and is now being applied to the need
I see is as complete vindication for Brexit and it is working as designed
And this is why the Tories will win the next election! Not opinion polls or incumbency advantages in the new red wall seats or anything like that. It is the willingness of much of the Tory electorate to seamlessly jump from one policy to the next and apparently believe they have always supported the new policy.
If Labour, or the LDs, or Greens, try and introduce any new policy, it generally descends into factional rows and loss of morale, even splits.
I can just say with absolute honesty this policy is the one I have understood from the beginning and agreed with
I am receiving some snide remarks this morning from some, but this is not me adjusting my mindset as I have always understood it and it is genuinely a brexit dividend, as we can attract skilled workers to our need at a good wage
The need only exists because of Brexit.
That's like saying I am enjoying the freedom to eat my dinner with one hand since I broke my wrist.
Off topic, petrol update. Just had calls from my other half, in tears initially, trying to find petrol. She set off at 7am this morning to go to an event, 50 miles away, and needed petrol. The first 6 petrol stations were no good - 2 closed, 4 with horrendous queues. At 7.30, she was about to give up and come home. I directed her to a nearby Asda - bit of a queue, but no problem at all, so she's happy now and on her way. But astonishing that so many people decided to go to fill up their cars so early on a Saturday morning.
Conclusions: a) there is no petrol shortage b) there is panic buying ('fuelled' by the media, BP/Shell, and the government) c) the great British public (some of them) are bonkers.
Not sure how the government is to blame for panic buying.
I get that people want to fill up because they might not be able to tomorrow, but what I don’t get is the queuing. Unless you absolutely need to fill up now, why bother?
Because if the delivery driver shortage means only, random guess, 80% of normal fuel quantities can be delivered, it means there isn't the fuel available for 20% of journeys. It's rational not to want to be in that 20%. The difference between panic buying and sensible precaution is one of attitude.
PB random approximation alert !!
Whatever percentage shortfall, the effect is the same.
Owen Jones 🌹 @OwenJones84 · 15m This is just incredible behaviour. The country is in a complete mess and all the Labour leadership can think about is how to strip Labour members of their power to choose who their leader is
===
Translation: Corbyn's successor will never get on the ballot under these rules and I want to cry.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
I voted Remain but can understand the issue was really about control as much as a view about FOM. The vaccine rollout showed how the government could act at a speed which in those critical weeks the EU was unable to match. This decision shows a similar ability. Personally I think, in this case that decision is not correct but it has the merit of being under the control of the government rather than the EU. Policies do of course matter but it seems for some the only accpetable rosette is the one with EU written on it.
I couldn't care less about whether we are in the EU anymore. We voted to leave and have left.
What I do care about is the government being honest about the long term economy and structure of the country. We need immigration, not because of the EU, or because its popular or good for business, but because our demographics demand it. There is no realistic alternative.
We will get immigration, or we hit problems like this that will not be tolerated. So temporary schemes will be put in place, that will be extended ad nauseum, because the government can't admit the reality that immigration is needed.
The alternative to immigration (which is likely to continue, just in African and Asian groups instead of European) is to readjust economy and life style.
To import agricultural produce rather than agricultural workers, particularly in non-mechanised sectors like market gardening and seasonal produce.
Similar in some manufacturing sectors.
To go out fewer times on the hospitality sector, and pay more when we do so.
To care for our own elderly relatives, rather than rely on immigrants to do so.
Not necessarily bad changes for society as a whole, but it won't be the "metropolitan elite" that see their horizons narrowed, they can still afford it.
We have accepted Brexit. We just think it's fucking stupid and will take a certain grim satisfaction in pointing out its widely-predicted negative consequences, as they occur. Brexiteers are free to take similar delight in its upsides, should they ever manifest themselves.
It occurred to me this morning that the BoZo fanbois can still cheer their man for now.
He is still riding high (ish) but one day his star will wane again.
In the meantime, Brexit will be a shitshow for the rest of our lives.
We are never going to run out of material...
Doesn’t this dickhead ever take a day off or do anything productive with his life ?
You won, get over it.
I voted remain, mate. I just think we need to get on with it, make the best of it, and try to rejoin in a position of strength in a generation or so.
is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
BoZo just abandoned it
You just do not accept we have left the EU and the visa quota scheme addresses our labour needs with minimum salary of £25,600 and can apply worldwide and is specific
You would rather use cheap EU labour to keep down wages to the detriment of our low paid
It is a disgrace anyone would want that again
I'll ask again, since everyone making this claim seems to go to ground when I've previously asked: where is the evidence that low-paid wages have gone up since Brexit?
I tried a few times recently to get to the bottom of this claim, but all I've seen is a wage slump and rebound due to Covid. I don't know if you're right or wrong, but they way you and others keep dodging the question is making me suspicious.
And now I really do have to go.
I was quite taken by an interview with Peter Lilley I saw yesterday. His sudden concern for improving the pay and conditions of lorry drivers was really striking, given some 40 years in frontline politics during which time the issue had never appeared to concern him in the slightest.
Well, quite. The u-turn will not improve the conditions of UK drivers one iota. and in any event the key margin is the ability of haulier firms to mix and match their schedules across the whole single market, and the UK red tape is the barrier, at least as much as the visa question.
So in answer to the (extremely defensive) Brexiteers on today. Brexit or no Brexit the deal Johnson "negotiated" is a shambles and over time it will need to be renegotiated to establish generally closer relations between the UK and the EU. Brexit was not a destination and has not been "done", it is a process and will take quite a while to sort out. In the meantime the UK economy is taking hit after hit and with the real prospect of significant interest rate turbulence next year to add to the massive burdens of new red tape, the outlook is extremely bleak.
Of course if Brexit gets the blame, then Johnson, who perhaps more than any single individual is the author of this, will be torched.
Ive been in the office every day this week despite very few people choosing to, mainly because the IT equipment is better so I’m more productive.
That’s interesting. In my place the consensus is the opposite. People’s home IT setup is superior to the office and the connection speed for video calls better too.
The guy who sits opposite me talks so damn loudly that every time I’m on a Zoom call clients complain about the background noise.
Get a directional microphone that picks up you and not the person opposite. I can't help with the loud person behind you.
Get a decent call centre type headset. Both Mike and audio are far better.
We have accepted Brexit. We just think it's fucking stupid and will take a certain grim satisfaction in pointing out its widely-predicted negative consequences, as they occur. Brexiteers are free to take similar delight in its upsides, should they ever manifest themselves.
It occurred to me this morning that the BoZo fanbois can still cheer their man for now.
He is still riding high (ish) but one day his star will wane again.
In the meantime, Brexit will be a shitshow for the rest of our lives.
We are never going to run out of material...
Doesn’t this dickhead ever take a day off or do anything productive with his life ?
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
This has been the conservative policy throughout and is now being applied to the need
I see is as complete vindication for Brexit and it is working as designed
I must congratulate you. You’ve got the Comical Ali tribute off to a tee!
I have to say, with the greatest of respect, those trying to dismiss this are those who have not accepted brexit and think this is a way to undermine it, with the vain hope we will rejoin
Just so we're clear...
Is there any degree of Brexit fallout which would make it legitimate to say "hey guys, this may be something we need to reverse"?
Is there any degree of swing in public opinion where it would be legitimate for a UK government to reverse Brexit?
I don't think we're anywhere near either of those conditions right now, and those on the fringes who are arguing for a quick rejoin are probably doing more harm than good to their cause. And there's plenty of prickles that the UK could remove.
But to say "this policy is irreversible, permanent for all time" flies in the face of history, doesn't it? Governments of all colours have thought they had changed things forever and proved wrong.
It also takes away agency and sovereignty from future generations, which is a pretty selfish thing for this generation of voters to be doing.
If the policy of the Johnson government succeeds, it will deservedly stick. If it fails, it equally deservedly won't. That's democracy, and trying to shut down inconvenient voices isn't.
I am far from saying that brexit is not reversible
I am not @HYUFD telling the Scots they cannot have indyref2 in 40 years and opinions do change and every 5 years or so governments face the electorate
My main argument is that the visa quota scheme that Boris is about to announce is the one designed and legislated for post Brexit
The world is changing and as we have seen with AUKUS and our application to join CPTPP that we are seeking global influence and new markets and of course that does make rejoining the EU far more complex and distant
I also expect the EU, and France specifically, to agree a mutually beneficial European defence and security pact and I understand Boris spoke to Macron yesteday and this was the subject of the meeting 10 days ago with Rutte at no 10
I therefore do not see a path to rejoin the EU and we need to make this work and move on
However, it may come about sometime in the future that we are able to agree a closer relationship with the EU and that would be excellent
The A21 out of London is doing a great impression of a car park this morning due to drivers queueing to fill-up their petrol tanks. Glad I don't have any particular plans today.
The A21 out of London is doing a great impression of a car park this morning due to drivers queueing to fill-up their petrol tanks. Glad I don't have any particular plans today.
This could lead to food and more importantly bog roll shortages if the lorries can't get to the shops (or home deliveries).
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
This has been the conservative policy throughout and is now being applied to the need
I see is as complete vindication for Brexit and it is working as designed
I must congratulate you. You’ve got the Comical Ali tribute off to a tee!
I have to say, with the greatest of respect, those trying to dismiss this are those who have not accepted brexit and think this is a way to undermine it, with the vain hope we will rejoin
Just so we're clear...
Is there any degree of Brexit fallout which would make it legitimate to say "hey guys, this may be something we need to reverse"?
Is there any degree of swing in public opinion where it would be legitimate for a UK government to reverse Brexit?
I don't think we're anywhere near either of those conditions right now, and those on the fringes who are arguing for a quick rejoin are probably doing more harm than good to their cause. And there's plenty of prickles that the UK could remove.
But to say "this policy is irreversible, permanent for all time" flies in the face of history, doesn't it? Governments of all colours have thought they had changed things forever and proved wrong.
It also takes away agency and sovereignty from future generations, which is a pretty selfish thing for this generation of voters to be doing.
If the policy of the Johnson government succeeds, it will deservedly stick. If it fails, it equally deservedly won't. That's democracy, and trying to shut down inconvenient voices isn't.
Indeed, this is a government of U turns, so what is implausible about the biggest U turn of all?
In the last months we have decided that the NI protocol is unworkable, that we cannot run inbound customs at the Channel, and now that we need to import European workers.
I don't think Rejoin is on the agenda yet for a major party (celtic nationalists apart) but I can see that it won't just be the LDs wanting much closer alignment to the Single Market.
is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
BoZo just abandoned it
You just do not accept we have left the EU and the visa quota scheme addresses our labour needs with minimum salary of £25,600 and can apply worldwide and is specific
You would rather use cheap EU labour to keep down wages to the detriment of our low paid
It is a disgrace anyone would want that again
I'll ask again, since everyone making this claim seems to go to ground when I've previously asked: where is the evidence that low-paid wages have gone up since Brexit?
I tried a few times recently to get to the bottom of this claim, but all I've seen is a wage slump and rebound due to Covid. I don't know if you're right or wrong, but they way you and others keep dodging the question is making me suspicious.
And now I really do have to go.
I was quite taken by an interview with Peter Lilley I saw yesterday. His sudden concern for improving the pay and conditions of lorry drivers was really striking, given some 40 years in frontline politics during which time the issue had never appeared to concern him in the slightest.
Well, quite. The u-turn will not improve the conditions of UK drivers one iota. and in any event the key margin is the ability of haulier firms to mix and match their schedules across the whole single market, and the UK red tape is the barrier, at least as much as the visa question.
So in answer to the (extremely defensive) Brexiteers on today. Brexit or no Brexit the deal Johnson "negotiated" is a shambles and over time it will need to be renegotiated to establish generally closer relations between the UK and the EU. Brexit was not a destination and has not been "done", it is a process and will take quite a while to sort out. In the meantime the UK economy is taking hit after hit and with the real prospect of significant interest rate turbulence next year to add to the massive burdens of new red tape, the outlook is extremely bleak.
Of course if Brexit gets the blame, then Johnson, who perhaps more than any single individual is the author of this, will be torched.
All successful politics is pragmatic. Ask the Chinese. Or OTOH the North Koreans. The Conservatives are better at this than any other national GB party, but as a consequence the only actual continuity they have with their distant past are words like 'Conservative' and 'Tory'.
Completely underestimated is electoral support for the best pragmatists around at any one time.
Labour are, ATM, fantastically bad pragmatists; as I write they are exchanging ideological dirty washing through every possible medium including this one. Not a single vote from the uncommitted can it gain. But talk of higher wages for HGV drivers this very week can.
is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
BoZo just abandoned it
You just do not accept we have left the EU and the visa quota scheme addresses our labour needs with minimum salary of £25,600 and can apply worldwide and is specific
You would rather use cheap EU labour to keep down wages to the detriment of our low paid
It is a disgrace anyone would want that again
I'll ask again, since everyone making this claim seems to go to ground when I've previously asked: where is the evidence that low-paid wages have gone up since Brexit?
I tried a few times recently to get to the bottom of this claim, but all I've seen is a wage slump and rebound due to Covid. I don't know if you're right or wrong, but they way you and others keep dodging the question is making me suspicious.
And now I really do have to go.
I was quite taken by an interview with Peter Lilley I saw yesterday. His sudden concern for improving the pay and conditions of lorry drivers was really striking, given some 40 years in frontline politics during which time the issue had never appeared to concern him in the slightest.
Well, quite. The u-turn will not improve the conditions of UK drivers one iota. and in any event the key margin is the ability of haulier firms to mix and match their schedules across the whole single market, and the UK red tape is the barrier, at least as much as the visa question.
So in answer to the (extremely defensive) Brexiteers on today. Brexit or no Brexit the deal Johnson "negotiated" is a shambles and over time it will need to be renegotiated to establish generally closer relations between the UK and the EU. Brexit was not a destination and has not been "done", it is a process and will take quite a while to sort out. In the meantime the UK economy is taking hit after hit and with the real prospect of significant interest rate turbulence next year to add to the massive burdens of new red tape, the outlook is extremely bleak.
Of course if Brexit gets the blame, then Johnson, who perhaps more than any single individual is the author of this, will be torched.
I suspect the Tory position on drivers' pay is that they are satisfied if it rises due to market conditions but not as a result of union action. Whatever happened to the Transport and General Workers Union? There was a time when they'd be on the telly more often than the weather man.
Owen Jones 🌹 @OwenJones84 · 15m This is just incredible behaviour. The country is in a complete mess and all the Labour leadership can think about is how to strip Labour members of their power to choose who their leader is
===
Translation: Corbyn's successor will never get on the ballot under these rules and I want to cry.
The current leader was chosen under the old rules and I don't think he is a Corbynista.
Ive been in the office every day this week despite very few people choosing to, mainly because the IT equipment is better so I’m more productive.
That’s interesting. In my place the consensus is the opposite. People’s home IT setup is superior to the office and the connection speed for video calls better too.
The guy who sits opposite me talks so damn loudly that every time I’m on a Zoom call clients complain about the background noise.
Get a directional microphone that picks up you and not the person opposite. I can't help with the loud person behind you.
Get a decent call centre type headset. Both mike and audio are far better.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
This has been the conservative policy throughout and is now being applied to the need
I see is as complete vindication for Brexit and it is working as designed
I must congratulate you. You’ve got the Comical Ali tribute off to a tee!
I have to say, with the greatest of respect, those trying to dismiss this are those who have not accepted brexit and think this is a way to undermine it, with the vain hope we will rejoin
Just so we're clear...
Is there any degree of Brexit fallout which would make it legitimate to say "hey guys, this may be something we need to reverse"?
Is there any degree of swing in public opinion where it would be legitimate for a UK government to reverse Brexit?
I don't think we're anywhere near either of those conditions right now, and those on the fringes who are arguing for a quick rejoin are probably doing more harm than good to their cause. And there's plenty of prickles that the UK could remove.
But to say "this policy is irreversible, permanent for all time" flies in the face of history, doesn't it? Governments of all colours have thought they had changed things forever and proved wrong.
It also takes away agency and sovereignty from future generations, which is a pretty selfish thing for this generation of voters to be doing.
If the policy of the Johnson government succeeds, it will deservedly stick. If it fails, it equally deservedly won't. That's democracy, and trying to shut down inconvenient voices isn't.
Indeed, this is a government of U turns, so what is implausible about the biggest U turn of all?
In the last months we have decided that the NI protocol is unworkable, that we cannot run inbound customs at the Channel, and now that we need to import European workers.
I don't think Rejoin is on the agenda yet for a major party (celtic nationalists apart) but I can see that it won't just be the LDs wanting much closer alignment to the Single Market.
Ive been in the office every day this week despite very few people choosing to, mainly because the IT equipment is better so I’m more productive.
That’s interesting. In my place the consensus is the opposite. People’s home IT setup is superior to the office and the connection speed for video calls better too.
The guy who sits opposite me talks so damn loudly that every time I’m on a Zoom call clients complain about the background noise.
Get a directional microphone that picks up you and not the person opposite. I can't help with the loud person behind you.
Get a decent call centre type headset. Both mike and audio are far better.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
This has been the conservative policy throughout and is now being applied to the need
I see is as complete vindication for Brexit and it is working as designed
I must congratulate you. You’ve got the Comical Ali tribute off to a tee!
I have to say, with the greatest of respect, those trying to dismiss this are those who have not accepted brexit and think this is a way to undermine it, with the vain hope we will rejoin
Just so we're clear...
Is there any degree of Brexit fallout which would make it legitimate to say "hey guys, this may be something we need to reverse"?
Is there any degree of swing in public opinion where it would be legitimate for a UK government to reverse Brexit?
I don't think we're anywhere near either of those conditions right now, and those on the fringes who are arguing for a quick rejoin are probably doing more harm than good to their cause. And there's plenty of prickles that the UK could remove.
But to say "this policy is irreversible, permanent for all time" flies in the face of history, doesn't it? Governments of all colours have thought they had changed things forever and proved wrong.
It also takes away agency and sovereignty from future generations, which is a pretty selfish thing for this generation of voters to be doing.
If the policy of the Johnson government succeeds, it will deservedly stick. If it fails, it equally deservedly won't. That's democracy, and trying to shut down inconvenient voices isn't.
Indeed, this is a government of U turns, so what is implausible about the biggest U turn of all?
In the last months we have decided that the NI protocol is unworkable, that we cannot run inbound customs at the Channel, and now that we need to import European workers.
I don't think Rejoin is on the agenda yet for a major party (celtic nationalists apart) but I can see that it won't just be the LDs wanting much closer alignment to the Single Market.
Missing the point. With Brexit U turns are a matter for the UK government. Within the EU U turns on FOM can't be done. The point is who has the power to decide.
We have accepted Brexit. We just think it's fucking stupid and will take a certain grim satisfaction in pointing out its widely-predicted negative consequences, as they occur. Brexiteers are free to take similar delight in its upsides, should they ever manifest themselves.
It occurred to me this morning that the BoZo fanbois can still cheer their man for now.
He is still riding high (ish) but one day his star will wane again.
In the meantime, Brexit will be a shitshow for the rest of our lives.
We are never going to run out of material...
Doesn’t this dickhead ever take a day off or do anything productive with his life ?
You won, get over it.
I voted remain, mate. I just think we need to get on with it, make the best of it, and try to rejoin in a position of strength in a generation or so.
Making the best of it is all very well, but in doing that the shysters who inflicted it on us get away scot free. Even worse they own the bragging rights. I will therefore make sure in my own little way, that the blame will be reliably placed where it belongs, not with the victims, but with the villains
Off topic, petrol update. Just had calls from my other half, in tears initially, trying to find petrol. She set off at 7am this morning to go to an event, 50 miles away, and needed petrol. The first 6 petrol stations were no good - 2 closed, 4 with horrendous queues. At 7.30, she was about to give up and come home. I directed her to a nearby Asda - bit of a queue, but no problem at all, so she's happy now and on her way. But astonishing that so many people decided to go to fill up their cars so early on a Saturday morning.
Conclusions: a) there is no petrol shortage b) there is panic buying ('fuelled' by the media, BP/Shell, and the government) c) the great British public (some of them) are bonkers.
Not sure how the government is to blame for panic buying.
I get that people want to fill up because they might not be able to tomorrow, but what I don’t get is the queuing. Unless you absolutely need to fill up now, why bother?
Because if the delivery driver shortage means only, random guess, 80% of normal fuel quantities can be delivered, it means there isn't the fuel available for 20% of journeys. It's rational not to want to be in that 20%. The difference between panic buying and sensible precaution is one of attitude.
PB random approximation alert !!
Whatever percentage shortfall, the effect is the same.
It's still a random approximation.
Real evidence of a shortfall, rather than anecdata? Perhaps it is just a fluctuation . (And people in London being their usual silly selves.)
I haven't tried this AM, but I'll top up when I'm out later. The car says I only have 180 miles of range left.
I did discover BTW that there is a Regiment of the Black & Tans in LA - gents who, erm, like uniforms, looks strictly NSFW so did not inquire further to see if there is any connection with Irish history.
NEW: Keir Starmer has abandoned his controversial electoral college reforms overnight.
A spokesman says he will still bring other measures to "better connect us with working people and re-orient us toward the voters who can take us to power".
He's not very savvy, and is prone to picking fights with the party's powerful and most foolish idealogues that he can't beat, but then he is quite a crisp performer at PMQs and being "truly pathetic" got him from state school to senior lawyer.
His biggest problem is that he is hated by the eye-swivellers and doesn't understand that he is surrounded by duplicitous backstabbers, which probably in itself makes him unsuitable for his current role.
I am interested as to why loyal Conservatives like yourself are as vexed by the man as you are. Particularly as your own Prime Minister isn't really a role model for hard work, propriety and competence.
Grammar School which became a fee paying private school while he was there
I would like to see some work colleagues again in the flesh but wouldn't ever want to go back to being in 4 or 5 days/week. I completely understand it being different for the young workers. What will be interesting is how it is balanced between the (older) management wanting to be at home a few days each week and the youngsters who are in most days.
Funny. In my work the opposite was true (accountant). The more senior managers are in most days (three kept coming in back in January and February despite being told several times they really shouldn’t) whilst the ‘kids’ are never seen! It took an email from the Managing Director earlier this month to get them to creep back in.
I’ve three work colleagues in their twenties I’ve not seen in person since February 2020, and one lady who started in April I’ve never met.
Whilst senior managers are more likely to have space for a home office than a younger person, if you're not got much experience of office working you're perhaps more inclined not to want to bother with the commute unless required to.
Perhaps. I don't quite understand it.
Of the three senior managers who are in everyday, I suspect at least one is getting away from the wife; no doubt using work as an excuse to get out the house. They're also not great with technology. When they WERE at home, it was very much the case of "turn your mic on.... turn on your mic... the button in the bottom left... no, not screen share.... the mic bu.... oh I give up". Two of the three still send paper letters (FFS?!) chasing records to be sent to them, on paper.
As to the kids, no idea. The kids are more likely to be out and about anyway (at clients doing accounts), but at least one young lady who I finally met on Monday just gone (she started in January) I suspect just likes staying at home with mum and dad.
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
So the government wants to relax rules for EU drivers to save Bozos skin after he led a campaign which told those same drivers to get lost and go back home.
And then the visas are time limited and the message will then be get lost now .
Good morning
HMG new visa quota scheme was brought in post Brexit and applies worldwide, not just to the EU
It applies to specific need and has a minimum salary of £25,600
This is the brexit dividend which would not have been permissible under the EU freedom of movement and is working as designed for our post Brexit labour needs
As predicted the cheerleaders who supported the government not allowing foreign lorry drivers in, now support the allowing the foreign lorry drivers in.
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
This has been the conservative policy throughout and is now being applied to the need
I see is as complete vindication for Brexit and it is working as designed
I must congratulate you. You’ve got the Comical Ali tribute off to a tee!
I have to say, with the greatest of respect, those trying to dismiss this are those who have not accepted brexit and think this is a way to undermine it, with the vain hope we will rejoin
Just so we're clear...
Is there any degree of Brexit fallout which would make it legitimate to say "hey guys, this may be something we need to reverse"?
Is there any degree of swing in public opinion where it would be legitimate for a UK government to reverse Brexit?
I don't think we're anywhere near either of those conditions right now, and those on the fringes who are arguing for a quick rejoin are probably doing more harm than good to their cause. And there's plenty of prickles that the UK could remove.
But to say "this policy is irreversible, permanent for all time" flies in the face of history, doesn't it? Governments of all colours have thought they had changed things forever and proved wrong.
It also takes away agency and sovereignty from future generations, which is a pretty selfish thing for this generation of voters to be doing.
If the policy of the Johnson government succeeds, it will deservedly stick. If it fails, it equally deservedly won't. That's democracy, and trying to shut down inconvenient voices isn't.
I also expect the EU, and France specifically, to agree a mutually beneficial European defence and security pact and I understand Boris spoke to Macron yesteday and this was the subject of the meeting 10 days ago with Rutte at no 10
I'm not sure I see a path to that until such time as Germany becomes less mercantilist, and EuCo comes to terms with the increased weight which is due to the Eastern countries of the EU - about which they are currently in denial.
And until someone comes up with a way of addressing Mr Macron's wounded pride.
Off topic, petrol update. Just had calls from my other half, in tears initially, trying to find petrol. She set off at 7am this morning to go to an event, 50 miles away, and needed petrol. The first 6 petrol stations were no good - 2 closed, 4 with horrendous queues. At 7.30, she was about to give up and come home. I directed her to a nearby Asda - bit of a queue, but no problem at all, so she's happy now and on her way. But astonishing that so many people decided to go to fill up their cars so early on a Saturday morning.
Conclusions: a) there is no petrol shortage b) there is panic buying ('fuelled' by the media, BP/Shell, and the government) c) the great British public (some of them) are bonkers.
Would completely agree with all that. Drove past three this morning. One in Crosby (shut, run dry). One in Asda, West Derby had queues snaking around the car park. One in West Derby itself on the main road had queues into the road (Causing problems).
Comments
THERE IS NO COVID VACCINE SHORTAGE
I repeat
THERE IS NO COVID VACCINE SHORTAGE
Under NO circumstances should you rush out and get vaccinated this weekend because there is absolutely NO SHORTAGE
https://twitter.com/drphiliplee1/status/1441682369946308608?s=20
It is interesting you quote Sunak because he is far and away the smoothest operator in the cabinet. It is true that Johnson got rid of some dead wood earlier in the month, but I am unconvinced by Liz Truss' self- promotion, and throwing out Buckland and promoting Dorries suggests Johnson has no intention of surrounding himself with competence.
Supposed to be on holiday, but Mrs C is doing something else so I'm having a look at PB.
Is not part at least of SKS's problem his training and experience. An experienced politician, even one as naive about the world as Jeremy Corbyn, has spent years balancing the interests of groups, for some of whom at least, principle is more important than logic.
SKS has come from a world where, generally speaking, logical argument prevails. If that is, the lawyers who post were are any guide. The only time they have to relate to the outside world is when they are considering the effects of what they are saying on a jury, and juries are an unpredictable and different species.
Or have I too high an opinion of lawyers?
It is almost as if the policies don't matter, just the colour of the rosette.
You would rather use cheap EU labour to keep down wages to the detriment of our low paid
It is a disgrace anyone would want that again
https://twitter.com/taliashadwell/status/1441662839077416960?s=21
I see is as complete vindication for Brexit and it is working as designed
The more senior managers are in most days (three kept coming in back in January and February despite being told several times they really shouldn’t) whilst the ‘kids’ are never seen! It took an email from the Managing Director earlier this month to get them to creep back in.
I’ve three work colleagues in their twenties I’ve not seen in person since February 2020, and one lady who started in April I’ve never met.
If we had let foreign drivers in we wouldn't have had the petrol shortages. The government has been warned for weeks that we have a shortage which will hit our supply chains. Sooner or later something like this was going to happen.
We had three choices before the facts changed:
1) Let the foreign drivers in before the problems
2) Wait for problems first, then let foreign drivers in
3) Never let foreign drivers in as we believe in British drivers first.
I would have chosen 1 as a pragmatist but I would have more respect for choice 3 than 2 as 1 is clearly better than 2 (same outcome without problems hitting) but 1 and 3 have different benefits and costs so are more a matter of choice.
But at least I understand that our failure to prevent climate instability will have consequences and we can't shirk our share of responsibility for that. I think there will be a huge wave of "not my problem guv" attitudes in the West when the bill for climate inaction comes due in the form of widespread migration from affected areas of the planet. It won't be pretty.
No bet as qualifying may not occur, may be very wet, and it's very hard to predict.
I used the Kermit quote on a poster promoting a lunchtime meeting at work about Green question in 1991, to provide some intellectual reflection at the time when we were setting up a "can crusher" rota as part of the works Green Team. This was at a large electronics manufacturer in Nottingham.
(Since when we have more than halved our CO2 emissions in this country, 1991 being the high point - and the Green Party have not engaged with that.)
There’s panic buying on petrol due to deliberately provocative statements from the fuel industry to he force the govts hand and the supermarkets are full. Just been to do the weekly shop and my Sainsbury’s is full of product.
If Labour, or the LDs, or Greens, try and introduce any new policy, it generally descends into factional rows and loss of morale, even splits.
One big problem for the Greens is that Labour have sharpened up their act in fighting against the Greens where the Greens build some strength.
Norwich is an instructive example. At the 2010GE, when the incumbent MP was the Blairite Charles Clarke, the Greens increased their vote to 14.9% - I believe their second highest vote share at that election. At the time they had 14 of the 39 councillors.
With the left-wing, convincingly Green, Clive Lewis as the Labour MP, the Greens failed to save their deposit in the last two general elections. Their advance on the city council has also been pushed back. From a peak of 15 councillors they're now at 10 (though that's a recovery from a 2018 nadir of 5).
You can see similar sensible choices of candidate in other seats that would otherwise be good prospects for the Greens: Cambridge and Bristol West being they most obvious, but I'm sure there are others.
It looks like Labour aren't going to give the Greens a dull centrist to run against in these seats, and that's likely a factor that will stop the Greens from breaking through in an additional seat - though forcing Labour to select Green-friendly MPs is a little more than nothing.
It's disgraceful to want anything else.
What I do care about is the government being honest about the long term economy and structure of the country. We need immigration, not because of the EU, or because its popular or good for business, but because our demographics demand it. There is no realistic alternative.
We will get immigration, or we hit problems like this that will not be tolerated. So temporary schemes will be put in place, that will be extended ad nauseum, because the government can't admit the reality that immigration is needed.
See: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01663/
Probly should abolish elections cos the 60ish % of people not voting for BJ and his shower of incompetents will only be trying to undermine Brexit.
He is still riding high (ish) but one day his star will wane again.
In the meantime, Brexit will be a shitshow for the rest of our lives.
We are never going to run out of material...
https://twitter.com/MaajidNawaz/status/1441676525116477443
I filled up last night, because the cheapest filling station I pass is outside work, and my car didn't have sufficient range left for my intended use this weekend and to get back to work on Monday.
Boom boom etc
I am receiving some snide remarks this morning from some, but this is not me adjusting my mindset as I have always understood it and it is genuinely a brexit dividend, as we can attract skilled workers to our need at a good wage
I believe Angela Rayner is making a point about a £10 per hour wage if they are elected in 24 but how many know that the minimum salary for these visa quotas is one of £25,600 - £10.10 per hour or the average wage of the sector , whichever is higher
This scheme is already attacking employees at a higher rate than that suggested by Rayner for 24
Never make a decision until forced to do so, and then do the only option still possible.
Johnson is that cork in a storm, with events taking control, managing to stay on top until smashed on the rocks.
https://youtu.be/nsfTLMjaujc
I'll get my coat
I think the voters generally understand why the government is bad at micromanaging things, they just don't realise the general principles also apply to migration until they experience it up close.
Is there any degree of Brexit fallout which would make it legitimate to say "hey guys, this may be something we need to reverse"?
Is there any degree of swing in public opinion where it would be legitimate for a UK government to reverse Brexit?
I don't think we're anywhere near either of those conditions right now, and those on the fringes who are arguing for a quick rejoin are probably doing more harm than good to their cause. And there's plenty of prickles that the UK could remove.
But to say "this policy is irreversible, permanent for all time" flies in the face of history, doesn't it? Governments of all colours have thought they had changed things forever and proved wrong.
It also takes away agency and sovereignty from future generations, which is a pretty selfish thing for this generation of voters to be doing.
If the policy of the Johnson government succeeds, it will deservedly stick. If it fails, it equally deservedly won't. That's democracy, and trying to shut down inconvenient voices isn't.
You couldn't care less if that's causing a brain drain and poor demographics elsewhere, or if overcrowding is leading to people being unable to pay for a roof over there heads here.
I'd have no problems with unlimited immigration so long as that was partnered with unlimited construction, the abolition of the green belt, and the abolition of the requirement to get planning permission to build first. But seems I'm in a minority of one for that so ... If you're going to put in place barriers for building houses, you need barriers in place for how many people will need those houses.
That's like saying I am enjoying the freedom to eat my dinner with one hand since I broke my wrist.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58689887
Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
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15m
This is just incredible behaviour. The country is in a complete mess and all the Labour leadership can think about is how to strip Labour members of their power to choose who their leader is
===
Translation: Corbyn's successor will never get on the ballot under these rules and I want to cry.
To import agricultural produce rather than agricultural workers, particularly in non-mechanised sectors like market gardening and seasonal produce.
Similar in some manufacturing sectors.
To go out fewer times on the hospitality sector, and pay more when we do so.
To care for our own elderly relatives, rather than rely on immigrants to do so.
Not necessarily bad changes for society as a whole, but it won't be the "metropolitan elite" that see their horizons narrowed, they can still afford it.
So in answer to the (extremely defensive) Brexiteers on today. Brexit or no Brexit the deal Johnson "negotiated" is a shambles and over time it will need to be renegotiated to establish generally closer relations between the UK and the EU. Brexit was not a destination and has not been "done", it is a process and will take quite a while to sort out. In the meantime the UK economy is taking hit after hit and with the real prospect of significant interest rate turbulence next year to add to the massive burdens of new red tape, the outlook is extremely bleak.
Of course if Brexit gets the blame, then Johnson, who perhaps more than any single individual is the author of this, will be torched.
You’re here all week, try the fish.
I am not @HYUFD telling the Scots they cannot have indyref2 in 40 years and opinions do change and every 5 years or so governments face the electorate
My main argument is that the visa quota scheme that Boris is about to announce is the one designed and legislated for post Brexit
The world is changing and as we have seen with AUKUS and our application to join CPTPP that we are seeking global influence and new markets and of course that does make rejoining the EU far more complex and distant
I also expect the EU, and France specifically, to agree a mutually beneficial European defence and security pact and I understand Boris spoke to Macron yesteday and this was the subject of the meeting 10 days ago with Rutte at no 10
I therefore do not see a path to rejoin the EU and we need to make this work and move on
However, it may come about sometime in the future that we are able to agree a closer relationship with the EU and that would be excellent
(I nearly wrote 'in charge' there, but BoZo is no more in charge of events than you are)
Next Esso at Neasden also totally out.
Shell garage next door has petrol but no diesel, with huge queues all along the dual carriageway just to get in.
(We are not panic buying, just on empty trying to get to an appointment!) https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1441700560835686403/video/1
In the last months we have decided that the NI protocol is unworkable, that we cannot run inbound customs at the Channel, and now that we need to import European workers.
I don't think Rejoin is on the agenda yet for a major party (celtic nationalists apart) but I can see that it won't just be the LDs wanting much closer alignment to the Single Market.
Completely underestimated is electoral support for the best pragmatists around at any one time.
Labour are, ATM, fantastically bad pragmatists; as I write they are exchanging ideological dirty washing through every possible medium including this one. Not a single vote from the uncommitted can it gain. But talk of higher wages for HGV drivers this very week can.
The photo is taken from this Irish Times article on the Black and Tans: https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/music/come-out-ye-black-and-tans-think-you-know-what-it-s-about-you-probably-don-t-1.3832601
Real evidence of a shortfall, rather than anecdata? Perhaps it is just a fluctuation
I haven't tried this AM, but I'll top up when I'm out later. The car says I only have 180 miles of range left.
I did discover BTW that there is a Regiment of the Black & Tans in LA - gents who, erm, like uniforms, looks strictly NSFW so did not inquire further to see if there is any connection with Irish history.
Of the three senior managers who are in everyday, I suspect at least one is getting away from the wife; no doubt using work as an excuse to get out the house. They're also not great with technology. When they WERE at home, it was very much the case of "turn your mic on.... turn on your mic... the button in the bottom left... no, not screen share.... the mic bu.... oh I give up". Two of the three still send paper letters (FFS?!) chasing records to be sent to them, on paper.
As to the kids, no idea. The kids are more likely to be out and about anyway (at clients doing accounts), but at least one young lady who I finally met on Monday just gone (she started in January) I suspect just likes staying at home with mum and dad.
And until someone comes up with a way of addressing Mr Macron's wounded pride.
Drove past three this morning. One in Crosby (shut, run dry). One in Asda, West Derby had queues snaking around the car park. One in West Derby itself on the main road had queues into the road (Causing problems).