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That YouGov LAB lead poll is increasingly looking like an outlier – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    Sounds wrong, that sort of business should be nowhere near administration in the present circs
    Asda and Sainsburys pay £x a delivery, costs rise 40% and the supermarkets say not our problem, you agreed that we pay £x and we aren’t paying more.
    "Just pay more"
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    Ken Clarke
    @MrKennethClarke
    ·
    6h
    Reports are coming in that the Brexit Bus has run out of fuel.

    Nowt to do with Brexit.
    And doesn't exist anyways.
    This really is an open goal for a Labour Conference week.
    Can you imagine what Blair, Smith or Wilson would do with this news?
    Not pass back to the keeper.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Burn...



    Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico
    You know. I've got to be honest. I'm starting to have my doubts as to how accurate that 7,000 hospitalisations per day forecast is going to prove.


    Prof. Christina Pagel @chrischirp

    ...infuriating when news stories focus on worst (v unlikely) scenario and then blame spim when it doesn't happen. Often ignoring that things are still quite bad even if they weren't worse



    Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico

    SPI-M said its R=1.5 and R=1.1 cases encompassed the "likely" envelope - ie covered the central 55-70% most likely scenarios. That means they said there was a 15-22.5% probability the number wld be *higher* than 7k/day.

    Christina Pagel is caught not having a fecking clue what she talks about.

    In other shock news, bear shits in woods.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Emma Raducanu clearly moving to independent Scotland in support of Andy Murray going by today's outfit.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    This is a problem. They were the bespoke chilled transport used by both Asda and Sainsburys to move chilled products between the retailer distribution centres and stores, or in a lot of cases from the producer depot (eg Arla) to the store.

    Whilst Asda and Sainsburys are trying to pick the operation up off the administrator between them, this won't happen immediately. Suppliers being told "make other arrangements" but there isn't an alternative fleet of trucks sat around doing nothing...
    Has it ceased trading then, as opposed to being kept running while they find a buyer ?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    edited September 2021

    Ken Clarke
    @MrKennethClarke
    ·
    6h
    Reports are coming in that the Brexit Bus has run out of fuel.

    Is it stuck on the road ahead?

  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    If Starmer fails to make progress in the context of current events, he really is a 'dud' and needs to be urgently replaced.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    edited September 2021
    Taz said:

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    This is a problem. They were the bespoke chilled transport used by both Asda and Sainsburys to move chilled products between the retailer distribution centres and stores, or in a lot of cases from the producer depot (eg Arla) to the store.

    Whilst Asda and Sainsburys are trying to pick the operation up off the administrator between them, this won't happen immediately. Suppliers being told "make other arrangements" but there isn't an alternative fleet of trucks sat around doing nothing...
    Has it ceased trading then, as opposed to being kept running while they find a buyer ?
    I'd be shocked if the administrator started winding down operations. It's clearly a viable business and will have a lot of potential buyers given the national logistics situation. Especially if they've got 1000 drivers and are now not subject to the old unprofitable supermarket contracts. It's highly likely that one or both of Asda/Sainsbury's will buy them out of bankruptcy. In fact I'd expect both to want to own it outright and secure all 1000 drivers for their own supply chain.

    Edit - Just thinking about it, I expect Sainsbury's will go in with the biggest offer and leave Asda high and dry now that the old contracts are cancelled. It makes sense for them to do it and Sainsbury's is probably in the stronger position out of the two.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    dixiedean said:

    Ken Clarke
    @MrKennethClarke
    ·
    6h
    Reports are coming in that the Brexit Bus has run out of fuel.

    Nowt to do with Brexit.
    And doesn't exist anyways.
    This really is an open goal for a Labour Conference week.
    Can you imagine what Blair, Smith or Wilson would do with this news?
    Not pass back to the keeper.
    Exactly only a useless nonentity would make the whole Conference about divisive internal matters with the Country in such a state.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Breaking:

    EG Group, which has 389 petrol stations, is imposing a £30 limit on fuel because of ‘unprecedented customer demand’

    It says this will give ensure ‘all our customers have a fair chance to refuel

    It asks customers to treat staff with respect during challenging times

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1441483020398043137

    Yeah but BigG has an anecdote repeated at least 3 times involving Asda and a tanker that clearly proves there is no problem
    There was no problem, then idiots decided to spark a panic when there was no reason to do so - and Lemmings joined in the panic.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,873

    McLeish close to picking out that last splinter in his arse from the Scottish Indy fence he's been sitting on for years. Fear not though Yoons, he may yet be tempted back and his indy support would be conditional on the Union being unable to reform itself. Whadda ya think lads, what are the chance sthe the Union will reform itself?



    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1441414202996842502?s=20

    Only taken him, what, a generation?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Can @FrancisUrquhart stick a monkey on the USA? We need some help...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,759
    edited September 2021
    ydoethur said:

    Burn...



    Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico
    You know. I've got to be honest. I'm starting to have my doubts as to how accurate that 7,000 hospitalisations per day forecast is going to prove.


    Prof. Christina Pagel @chrischirp

    ...infuriating when news stories focus on worst (v unlikely) scenario and then blame spim when it doesn't happen. Often ignoring that things are still quite bad even if they weren't worse



    Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico

    SPI-M said its R=1.5 and R=1.1 cases encompassed the "likely" envelope - ie covered the central 55-70% most likely scenarios. That means they said there was a 15-22.5% probability the number wld be *higher* than 7k/day.

    Christina Pagel is caught not having a fecking clue what she talks about.

    In other shock news, bear shits in woods.
    Strikes me that what iSAGE themselves do is focus on the absolute worst case from the modellers and then scream this will happen because of Johnson and we must have another lockdown immediately or whatever.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited September 2021
    Petrol panic buying has spread to my part of the WM. 1x petrol station completely out, the other a queue 20 or so long out on the road
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited September 2021

    ydoethur said:

    Burn...



    Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico
    You know. I've got to be honest. I'm starting to have my doubts as to how accurate that 7,000 hospitalisations per day forecast is going to prove.


    Prof. Christina Pagel @chrischirp

    ...infuriating when news stories focus on worst (v unlikely) scenario and then blame spim when it doesn't happen. Often ignoring that things are still quite bad even if they weren't worse



    Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico

    SPI-M said its R=1.5 and R=1.1 cases encompassed the "likely" envelope - ie covered the central 55-70% most likely scenarios. That means they said there was a 15-22.5% probability the number wld be *higher* than 7k/day.

    Christina Pagel is caught not having a fecking clue what she talks about.

    In other shock news, bear shits in woods.
    Strikes me that what iSAGE themselves do is focus on the absolute worst case from the modellers and then scream this will happen because of Johnson and we must have another lockdown immediately or whatever.
    Nobody is stopping them locking themselves up and having endless pointless meetings over Zoom saying how wonderful they all are and how silly the rest of us are, while we get on with our lives.

    As the Golgafrincham solution isn’t available, that seems a perfectly acceptable second best.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    geoffw said:

    Ken Clarke
    @MrKennethClarke
    ·
    6h
    Reports are coming in that the Brexit Bus has run out of fuel.

    Is it stuck on the road ahead?

    Somebody taken its controls?

    Or so brim full with all the cards the driver cant get to the steering wheel
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,201
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    Genuinely riveting, both the overall theory and the detail, and the match with the biblical account. And brilliant that Nature is free to air like that.
    PS Some of the evidence is very much along the lines of that used for the Chicxulub impact crater that did in the (terrestrial) dinosaurs.
    Gonna have to stop you there, pre-KT avian dinosaurs aren't particularly thought to have flown. Feathers were their most distinctive link with birds (though other flavours of dinosaur probably had them too).

    And while I'm on about it, dinosaurs are divided into saurischian, lizard-hipped, and ornithischian, bird-hipped. Guess what? Birds are descended from the saurischians.
    And we're descended from clams, right?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    ping said:

    Petrol panic buying has spread to my part of the WM. 1x petrol station completely out, the other a queue 20 or so long out on the road

    It's our national pastime. Nothing brings us together more than a spot of panic buying.
  • Scott_xP said:

    I WEEKEND: Petrol panic buying leaves No10 reeling #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1441497306755391495/photo/1

    Donnez-moi un break
  • MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    This is a problem. They were the bespoke chilled transport used by both Asda and Sainsburys to move chilled products between the retailer distribution centres and stores, or in a lot of cases from the producer depot (eg Arla) to the store.

    Whilst Asda and Sainsburys are trying to pick the operation up off the administrator between them, this won't happen immediately. Suppliers being told "make other arrangements" but there isn't an alternative fleet of trucks sat around doing nothing...
    Has it ceased trading then, as opposed to being kept running while they find a buyer ?
    I'd be shocked if the administrator started winding down operations. It's clearly a viable business and will have a lot of potential buyers given the national logistics situation. Especially if they've got 1000 drivers and are now not subject to the old unprofitable supermarket contracts. It's highly likely that one or both of Asda/Sainsbury's will buy them out of bankruptcy. In fact I'd expect both to want to own it outright and secure all 1000 drivers for their own supply chain.

    Edit - Just thinking about it, I expect Sainsbury's will go in with the biggest offer and leave Asda high and dry now that the old contracts are cancelled. It makes sense for them to do it and Sainsbury's is probably in the stronger position out of the two.
    It isn't clear what is happening. Its customers - people like Arla - are being told by the company
    they need to make alternate arrangements. The administrator has been involved for a few weeks even though it isn't formally in administration yet.

    Hard to "just renegotiate contracts" as suggested above when PWC are already involved.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Just about the only thing in favour of Starmer’s reforms is that it might prevent the membership electing Starmer again.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,702
    When I was out earlier this evening in Raducanu country the local petrol station had signs up saying 'no petrol, no diesel'
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Tres said:

    When I was out earlier this evening in Raducanu country the local petrol station had signs up saying 'no petrol, no diesel'

    Romania, Canada, China, Flushing Meadows or London?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    This is a problem. They were the bespoke chilled transport used by both Asda and Sainsburys to move chilled products between the retailer distribution centres and stores, or in a lot of cases from the producer depot (eg Arla) to the store.

    Whilst Asda and Sainsburys are trying to pick the operation up off the administrator between them, this won't happen immediately. Suppliers being told "make other arrangements" but there isn't an alternative fleet of trucks sat around doing nothing...
    Has it ceased trading then, as opposed to being kept running while they find a buyer ?
    I'd be shocked if the administrator started winding down operations. It's clearly a viable business and will have a lot of potential buyers given the national logistics situation. Especially if they've got 1000 drivers and are now not subject to the old unprofitable supermarket contracts. It's highly likely that one or both of Asda/Sainsbury's will buy them out of bankruptcy. In fact I'd expect both to want to own it outright and secure all 1000 drivers for their own supply chain.

    Edit - Just thinking about it, I expect Sainsbury's will go in with the biggest offer and leave Asda high and dry now that the old contracts are cancelled. It makes sense for them to do it and Sainsbury's is probably in the stronger position out of the two.
    It isn't clear what is happening. Its customers - people like Arla - are being told by the company
    they need to make alternate arrangements. The administrator has been involved for a few weeks even though it isn't formally in administration yet.

    Hard to "just renegotiate contracts" as suggested above when PWC are already involved.
    Renegotiation would surely have been attempted prior to administration though which would be the last resort.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,584
    geoffw said:

    ping said:

    Petrol panic buying has spread to my part of the WM. 1x petrol station completely out, the other a queue 20 or so long out on the road

    It's our national pastime. Nothing brings us together more than a spot of panic buying.
    I doubt the psychology behind it is unique to people in this country.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Burn...



    Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico
    You know. I've got to be honest. I'm starting to have my doubts as to how accurate that 7,000 hospitalisations per day forecast is going to prove.


    Prof. Christina Pagel @chrischirp

    ...infuriating when news stories focus on worst (v unlikely) scenario and then blame spim when it doesn't happen. Often ignoring that things are still quite bad even if they weren't worse



    Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico

    SPI-M said its R=1.5 and R=1.1 cases encompassed the "likely" envelope - ie covered the central 55-70% most likely scenarios. That means they said there was a 15-22.5% probability the number wld be *higher* than 7k/day.

    Christina Pagel is caught not having a fecking clue what she talks about.

    In other shock news, bear shits in woods.
    Strikes me that what iSAGE themselves do is focus on the absolute worst case from the modellers and then scream this will happen because of Johnson and we must have another lockdown immediately or whatever.
    Nobody is stopping them locking themselves up and having endless pointless meetings over Zoom saying how wonderful they all are and how silly the rest of us are, while we get on with our lives.

    As the Golgafrincham solution isn’t available, that seems a perfectly acceptable second best.
    They’re moving on to climate change after the pandemic is over.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,702
    ydoethur said:

    Tres said:

    When I was out earlier this evening in Raducanu country the local petrol station had signs up saying 'no petrol, no diesel'

    Romania, Canada, China, Flushing Meadows or London?
    'London Borough of Bromley'
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,873
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    Genuinely riveting, both the overall theory and the detail, and the match with the biblical account. And brilliant that Nature is free to air like that.
    PS Some of the evidence is very much along the lines of that used for the Chicxulub impact crater that did in the (terrestrial) dinosaurs.
    Gonna have to stop you there, pre-KT avian dinosaurs aren't particularly thought to have flown. Feathers were their most distinctive link with birds (though other flavours of dinosaur probably had them too).

    And while I'm on about it, dinosaurs are divided into saurischian, lizard-hipped, and ornithischian, bird-hipped. Guess what? Birds are descended from the saurischians.
    Eh? Been known since the 1970s that birds were saurischians, more specifically theropods, rather than ornithischians (which IIRC was an original Huxley inference from 1861 or so). Archaeopteryx was latest Jurassic and a very good if long-armed theropod, and it certainly flew (wing area/loading ratio, asymmetric flight feathers, etc.) as I recall from lectures.

    I was also listening to a much more up to daye lecture last night, as it happens - at least three different lineages of theropod dinosaurs had flight, not just the birds. I think this report must refer to the primary research paper.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dinosaurs-evolved-flight-least-three-times-180977883/

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    This is a problem. They were the bespoke chilled transport used by both Asda and Sainsburys to move chilled products between the retailer distribution centres and stores, or in a lot of cases from the producer depot (eg Arla) to the store.

    Whilst Asda and Sainsburys are trying to pick the operation up off the administrator between them, this won't happen immediately. Suppliers being told "make other arrangements" but there isn't an alternative fleet of trucks sat around doing nothing...
    Has it ceased trading then, as opposed to being kept running while they find a buyer ?
    I'd be shocked if the administrator started winding down operations. It's clearly a viable business and will have a lot of potential buyers given the national logistics situation. Especially if they've got 1000 drivers and are now not subject to the old unprofitable supermarket contracts. It's highly likely that one or both of Asda/Sainsbury's will buy them out of bankruptcy. In fact I'd expect both to want to own it outright and secure all 1000 drivers for their own supply chain.

    Edit - Just thinking about it, I expect Sainsbury's will go in with the biggest offer and leave Asda high and dry now that the old contracts are cancelled. It makes sense for them to do it and Sainsbury's is probably in the stronger position out of the two.
    It isn't clear what is happening. Its customers - people like Arla - are being told by the company
    they need to make alternate arrangements. The administrator has been involved for a few weeks even though it isn't formally in administration yet.

    Hard to "just renegotiate contracts" as suggested above when PWC are already involved.
    It's not renegotiating contracts though, once they're in administration the contracts are worthless and a new owner will out pay pennies to the pound to the old contract holders.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    MaxPB said:

    What beats me is that in about five days the petrol stations will still have petrol and people will still think they did the right think by panic buying.

    Right thinking.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    Genuinely riveting, both the overall theory and the detail, and the match with the biblical account. And brilliant that Nature is free to air like that.
    PS Some of the evidence is very much along the lines of that used for the Chicxulub impact crater that did in the (terrestrial) dinosaurs.
    Gonna have to stop you there, pre-KT avian dinosaurs aren't particularly thought to have flown. Feathers were their most distinctive link with birds (though other flavours of dinosaur probably had them too).

    And while I'm on about it, dinosaurs are divided into saurischian, lizard-hipped, and ornithischian, bird-hipped. Guess what? Birds are descended from the saurischians.
    And we're descended from clams, right?
    Naah just cousins. Last common ancestor almost as old as @JackW.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,201
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    Sounds wrong, that sort of business should be nowhere near administration in the present circs
    Asda and Sainsburys pay £x a delivery, costs rise 40% and the supermarkets say not our problem, you agreed that we pay £x and we aren’t paying more.
    In which case Asda and Sainsbury's don't get their deliveries.
    Contract says they do
    Not if the company goes bankrupt.
    Bear in mind that the private equity firm may well own all the debt too.

    So "going bust" is a euphemism for dumping an unprofitable contract.
  • Taz said:

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    This is a problem. They were the bespoke chilled transport used by both Asda and Sainsburys to move chilled products between the retailer distribution centres and stores, or in a lot of cases from the producer depot (eg Arla) to the store.

    Whilst Asda and Sainsburys are trying to pick the operation up off the administrator between them, this won't happen immediately. Suppliers being told "make other arrangements" but there isn't an alternative fleet of trucks sat around doing nothing...
    Has it ceased trading then, as opposed to being kept running while they find a buyer ?
    I'd be shocked if the administrator started winding down operations. It's clearly a viable business and will have a lot of potential buyers given the national logistics situation. Especially if they've got 1000 drivers and are now not subject to the old unprofitable supermarket contracts. It's highly likely that one or both of Asda/Sainsbury's will buy them out of bankruptcy. In fact I'd expect both to want to own it outright and secure all 1000 drivers for their own supply chain.

    Edit - Just thinking about it, I expect Sainsbury's will go in with the biggest offer and leave Asda high and dry now that the old contracts are cancelled. It makes sense for them to do it and Sainsbury's is probably in the stronger position out of the two.
    It isn't clear what is happening. Its customers - people like Arla - are being told by the company
    they need to make alternate arrangements. The administrator has been involved for a few weeks even though it isn't formally in administration yet.

    Hard to "just renegotiate contracts" as suggested above when PWC are already involved.
    Renegotiation would surely have been attempted prior to administration though which would be the last resort.
    It sounds like a right old mess. The challenge is how much do you renegotiate by - remember that Red Philo thinks that the pay rises should go to the moon - and how do you get that run through quickly enough?

    As an example, go to Sainsburys and say "we're putting our costs up 20%". That isn't something that will go through on the nod. And if the haulier have already called in PwC are you negotiating with the haulier or with their PwC advisors, and with what guarantees this new contract will be worth the paper its written on?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Someone who works at a service station near me says they had sold £45k of fuel today usually do £60k in the whole week.

    Its also 15p a litre more expensive than the Coop less than a mile away
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,201
    edited September 2021
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Anders Tegnell: Sweden won the argument on Covid

    The state epidemiologist told Freddie Sayers he was right on the key questions"

    https://unherd.com/thepost/anders-tegnell-sweden-won-the-argument-on-covid/

    What Mandy Rice Davies said.
    There are two Swedens:

    The first is a place where an initial laissez-faire attitude resulted in a big negative economic impact, lots more deaths than peers, and a belated imposition of local lockdowns. It is a place where only 32% of voters think "the government has done a good job of handling the Coronavirus".

    The other is a mythical place that Unherd and the Spectator write about frequently and gushingly.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    This is a problem. They were the bespoke chilled transport used by both Asda and Sainsburys to move chilled products between the retailer distribution centres and stores, or in a lot of cases from the producer depot (eg Arla) to the store.

    Whilst Asda and Sainsburys are trying to pick the operation up off the administrator between them, this won't happen immediately. Suppliers being told "make other arrangements" but there isn't an alternative fleet of trucks sat around doing nothing...
    Has it ceased trading then, as opposed to being kept running while they find a buyer ?
    I'd be shocked if the administrator started winding down operations. It's clearly a viable business and will have a lot of potential buyers given the national logistics situation. Especially if they've got 1000 drivers and are now not subject to the old unprofitable supermarket contracts. It's highly likely that one or both of Asda/Sainsbury's will buy them out of bankruptcy. In fact I'd expect both to want to own it outright and secure all 1000 drivers for their own supply chain.

    Edit - Just thinking about it, I expect Sainsbury's will go in with the biggest offer and leave Asda high and dry now that the old contracts are cancelled. It makes sense for them to do it and Sainsbury's is probably in the stronger position out of the two.
    It isn't clear what is happening. Its customers - people like Arla - are being told by the company
    they need to make alternate arrangements. The administrator has been involved for a few weeks even though it isn't formally in administration yet.

    Hard to "just renegotiate contracts" as suggested above when PWC are already involved.
    It's not renegotiating contracts though, once they're in administration the contracts are worthless and a new owner will out pay pennies to the pound to the old contract holders.
    And that is why "just renegotiate contracts" hasn't happened. Nor can the haulier know what its costs will be when pay keeps going up every other hour.

    Ultimately the supermarket(s) will end up owning this. Assuming there is enough left for them to want to.
  • ping said:



    Lol

    I reckon there are still people who have those bog rolls and mega bags of pasta from 18 months ago!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    Genuinely riveting, both the overall theory and the detail, and the match with the biblical account. And brilliant that Nature is free to air like that.
    PS Some of the evidence is very much along the lines of that used for the Chicxulub impact crater that did in the (terrestrial) dinosaurs.
    Gonna have to stop you there, pre-KT avian dinosaurs aren't particularly thought to have flown. Feathers were their most distinctive link with birds (though other flavours of dinosaur probably had them too).

    And while I'm on about it, dinosaurs are divided into saurischian, lizard-hipped, and ornithischian, bird-hipped. Guess what? Birds are descended from the saurischians.
    Eh? Been known since the 1970s that birds were saurischians, more specifically theropods, rather than ornithischians (which IIRC was an original Huxley inference from 1861 or so). Archaeopteryx was latest Jurassic and a very good if long-armed theropod, and it certainly flew (wing area/loading ratio, asymmetric flight feathers, etc.) as I recall from lectures.

    I was also listening to a much more up to daye lecture last night, as it happens - at least three different lineages of theropod dinosaurs had flight, not just the birds. I think this report must refer to the primary research paper.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dinosaurs-evolved-flight-least-three-times-180977883/

    I was just commenting on the irony that the birds are not descended from the bird hipped ones. Not that interesting a point admittedly.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,584

    ping said:



    Lol

    I reckon there are still people who have those bog rolls and mega bags of pasta from 18 months ago!
    Sensible people.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    This is a problem. They were the bespoke chilled transport used by both Asda and Sainsburys to move chilled products between the retailer distribution centres and stores, or in a lot of cases from the producer depot (eg Arla) to the store.

    Whilst Asda and Sainsburys are trying to pick the operation up off the administrator between them, this won't happen immediately. Suppliers being told "make other arrangements" but there isn't an alternative fleet of trucks sat around doing nothing...
    Has it ceased trading then, as opposed to being kept running while they find a buyer ?
    I'd be shocked if the administrator started winding down operations. It's clearly a viable business and will have a lot of potential buyers given the national logistics situation. Especially if they've got 1000 drivers and are now not subject to the old unprofitable supermarket contracts. It's highly likely that one or both of Asda/Sainsbury's will buy them out of bankruptcy. In fact I'd expect both to want to own it outright and secure all 1000 drivers for their own supply chain.

    Edit - Just thinking about it, I expect Sainsbury's will go in with the biggest offer and leave Asda high and dry now that the old contracts are cancelled. It makes sense for them to do it and Sainsbury's is probably in the stronger position out of the two.
    It isn't clear what is happening. Its customers - people like Arla - are being told by the company
    they need to make alternate arrangements. The administrator has been involved for a few weeks even though it isn't formally in administration yet.

    Hard to "just renegotiate contracts" as suggested above when PWC are already involved.
    It's not renegotiating contracts though, once they're in administration the contracts are worthless and a new owner will out pay pennies to the pound to the old contract holders.
    And that is why "just renegotiate contracts" hasn't happened. Nor can the haulier know what its costs will be when pay keeps going up every other hour.

    Ultimately the supermarket(s) will end up owning this. Assuming there is enough left for them to want to.
    The supermarkets are the ones who have driven and nailed down costs to the floor. They're the ones who need to pay good rates to fix this.

    The government shouldn't be getting involved. The supermarkets should.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited September 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    ping said:



    Lol

    I reckon there are still people who have those bog rolls and mega bags of pasta from 18 months ago!
    Sensible people.
    I haven’t got any spare pasta, but I’ve still got two Fray Bentos pies I bought in case shit got *really* bad.

    I gave them to the local food bank but they asked me to take them back.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428

    ping said:



    Lol

    I reckon there are still people who have those bog rolls and mega bags of pasta from 18 months ago!
    There are indeed. One work colleague still working her way through toilet rolls. We all reckon she will have filled car today.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ping said:



    Lol

    I reckon there are still people who have those bog rolls and mega bags of pasta from 18 months ago!
    There are indeed. One work colleague still working her way through toilet rolls. We all reckon she will have filled car today.
    Tbf, most of us will keep working our way through toilet rolls until we either snuff it or have really heavy duty surgery for piles.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MaxPB said:

    What beats me is that in about five days the petrol stations will still have petrol and people will still think they did the right thing by panic buying.

    What beats me is that in a year's time, 99.999% of the houses in the country will not have burned down, been struck by lightning or otherwise ceased to exist, and the householders will still think they did the right thing by paying for house insurance.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428
    ydoethur said:

    ping said:



    Lol

    I reckon there are still people who have those bog rolls and mega bags of pasta from 18 months ago!
    There are indeed. One work colleague still working her way through toilet rolls. We all reckon she will have filled car today.
    Tbf, most of us will keep working our way through toilet rolls until we either snuff it or have really heavy duty surgery for piles.
    Should have been clearer with pedants lurking like hyenas around the lion kill - she is still using toilet roll bought in March 2020. But then you knew that, didn’t you, you swine😀
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    ping said:



    Lol

    I reckon there are still people who have those bog rolls and mega bags of pasta from 18 months ago!
    There are indeed. One work colleague still working her way through toilet rolls. We all reckon she will have filled car today.
    Tbf, most of us will keep working our way through toilet rolls until we either snuff it or have really heavy duty surgery for piles.
    My concern is, what is she filling the car with?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428
    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    What beats me is that in about five days the petrol stations will still have petrol and people will still think they did the right thing by panic buying.

    What beats me is that in a year's time, 99.999% of the houses in the country will not have burned down, been struck by lightning or otherwise ceased to exist, and the householders will still think they did the right thing by paying for house insurance.
    We don’t tend to run out of insurance if we all try and buy at the same time though...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    ping said:



    Lol

    I reckon there are still people who have those bog rolls and mega bags of pasta from 18 months ago!
    There are indeed. One work colleague still working her way through toilet rolls. We all reckon she will have filled car today.
    Tbf, most of us will keep working our way through toilet rolls until we either snuff it or have really heavy duty surgery for piles.
    Should have been clearer with pedants lurking like hyenas around the lion kill - she is still using toilet roll bought in March 2020. But then you knew that, didn’t you, you swine😀
    Well, no, because swine don’t use toilet roll.
  • Boris channelling Philip Thompson.

    Johnson is keen to link these wage increases to Brexit and the end of free movement. He believes this is what people voted for, and that the wage increases are an example of Brexit delivering. When a group of influential businessmen tried to bend his ear this month about labour shortages, Johnson simply asked if they had tried paying people more. He regarded that as the end of the conversation.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-spectre-of-the-seventies-haunts-the-tories-0vb8cpb03
  • ping said:



    Lol

    I reckon there are still people who have those bog rolls and mega bags of pasta from 18 months ago!
    Why do peeps always panic buy pasta? I know it keeps for years, but so does rice. And what exactly are they going to eat with the pasta when it all goes 'The Road'? Rat?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Burn...



    Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico
    You know. I've got to be honest. I'm starting to have my doubts as to how accurate that 7,000 hospitalisations per day forecast is going to prove.


    Prof. Christina Pagel @chrischirp

    ...infuriating when news stories focus on worst (v unlikely) scenario and then blame spim when it doesn't happen. Often ignoring that things are still quite bad even if they weren't worse



    Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico

    SPI-M said its R=1.5 and R=1.1 cases encompassed the "likely" envelope - ie covered the central 55-70% most likely scenarios. That means they said there was a 15-22.5% probability the number wld be *higher* than 7k/day.

    Christina Pagel is caught not having a fecking clue what she talks about.

    In other shock news, bear shits in woods.
    Strikes me that what iSAGE themselves do is focus on the absolute worst case from the modellers and then scream this will happen because of Johnson and we must have another lockdown immediately or whatever.
    Nobody is stopping them locking themselves up and having endless pointless meetings over Zoom saying how wonderful they all are and how silly the rest of us are, while we get on with our lives.

    As the Golgafrincham solution isn’t available, that seems a perfectly acceptable second best.
    They’re moving on to climate change after the pandemic is over.
    Well, the amount of hot air they produced will probably have a not insignificant bearing on ACC.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    What beats me is that in about five days the petrol stations will still have petrol and people will still think they did the right thing by panic buying.

    What beats me is that in a year's time, 99.999% of the houses in the country will not have burned down, been struck by lightning or otherwise ceased to exist, and the householders will still think they did the right thing by paying for house insurance.
    We don’t tend to run out of insurance if we all try and buy at the same time though...
    And insurance needs to be bought before the event. Petrol isn't going to suddenly cease to exist. A person's house will if it burns down.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419

    ping said:



    Lol

    I reckon there are still people who have those bog rolls and mega bags of pasta from 18 months ago!
    Why do peeps always panic buy pasta? I know it keeps for years, but so does rice. And what exactly are they going to eat with the pasta when it all goes 'The Road'? Rat?
    I’ve still got the dried lentils I bought ahead of the first brexit date.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428

    ping said:



    Lol

    I reckon there are still people who have those bog rolls and mega bags of pasta from 18 months ago!
    Why do peeps always panic buy pasta? I know it keeps for years, but so does rice. And what exactly are they going to eat with the pasta when it all goes 'The Road'? Rat?
    When we couldn’t get pasata or tinned tomato we used tomato soup. Surprisingly nice, and I’m thinking of recreating it when I get lockdown nostalgia...
  • Andy_JS said:

    geoffw said:

    ping said:

    Petrol panic buying has spread to my part of the WM. 1x petrol station completely out, the other a queue 20 or so long out on the road

    It's our national pastime. Nothing brings us together more than a spot of panic buying.
    I doubt the psychology behind it is unique to people in this country.
    We are so much better at it though.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,201
    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    What beats me is that in about five days the petrol stations will still have petrol and people will still think they did the right thing by panic buying.

    What beats me is that in a year's time, 99.999% of the houses in the country will not have burned down, been struck by lightning or otherwise ceased to exist, and the householders will still think they did the right thing by paying for house insurance.
    Building insurance is a condition of most mortgages
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,873
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    Genuinely riveting, both the overall theory and the detail, and the match with the biblical account. And brilliant that Nature is free to air like that.
    PS Some of the evidence is very much along the lines of that used for the Chicxulub impact crater that did in the (terrestrial) dinosaurs.
    Gonna have to stop you there, pre-KT avian dinosaurs aren't particularly thought to have flown. Feathers were their most distinctive link with birds (though other flavours of dinosaur probably had them too).

    And while I'm on about it, dinosaurs are divided into saurischian, lizard-hipped, and ornithischian, bird-hipped. Guess what? Birds are descended from the saurischians.
    Eh? Been known since the 1970s that birds were saurischians, more specifically theropods, rather than ornithischians (which IIRC was an original Huxley inference from 1861 or so). Archaeopteryx was latest Jurassic and a very good if long-armed theropod, and it certainly flew (wing area/loading ratio, asymmetric flight feathers, etc.) as I recall from lectures.

    I was also listening to a much more up to daye lecture last night, as it happens - at least three different lineages of theropod dinosaurs had flight, not just the birds. I think this report must refer to the primary research paper.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dinosaurs-evolved-flight-least-three-times-180977883/

    I was just commenting on the irony that the birds are not descended from the bird hipped ones. Not that interesting a point admittedly.
    Some of those names for taxa, whether species or higher classificatory groups, are admittedly pretty archaic - made sense at the time, not so much now.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    What beats me is that in about five days the petrol stations will still have petrol and people will still think they did the right thing by panic buying.

    What beats me is that in a year's time, 99.999% of the houses in the country will not have burned down, been struck by lightning or otherwise ceased to exist, and the householders will still think they did the right thing by paying for house insurance.
    We don’t tend to run out of insurance if we all try and buy at the same time though...
    Christ all fucking mighty. You make a point so crashingly obvious you fear you are insulting PB's collective intelligence by making it, and this happens.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Pulpstar said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    What beats me is that in about five days the petrol stations will still have petrol and people will still think they did the right thing by panic buying.

    What beats me is that in a year's time, 99.999% of the houses in the country will not have burned down, been struck by lightning or otherwise ceased to exist, and the householders will still think they did the right thing by paying for house insurance.
    Building insurance is a condition of most mortgages
    And rinse and repeat.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    What beats me is that in about five days the petrol stations will still have petrol and people will still think they did the right thing by panic buying.

    What beats me is that in a year's time, 99.999% of the houses in the country will not have burned down, been struck by lightning or otherwise ceased to exist, and the householders will still think they did the right thing by paying for house insurance.
    We don’t tend to run out of insurance if we all try and buy at the same time though...
    Christ all fucking mighty. You make a point so crashingly obvious you fear you are insulting PB's collective intelligence by making it, and this happens.
    Tell you what, we can all stop posting and leave the floor to you. It’s a fecking discussion. Don’t like my posts, ignore them. I won’t care.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,079
    edited September 2021

    ping said:



    Lol

    I reckon there are still people who have those bog rolls and mega bags of pasta from 18 months ago!
    Why do peeps always panic buy pasta? I know it keeps for years, but so does rice. And what exactly are they going to eat with the pasta when it all goes 'The Road'? Rat?
    I have no idea....lockdown mk I, we just bought a freezer full of meat, fish, fruit and veg from costco....jolly nice it was too...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000
    TIMES: Transport chaos spreads #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1441506512220737536/photo/1
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000
    INDEPENDENT DIGITAL: ‘Too late’ to stop supply crisis affecting Christmas #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1441506074083819525/photo/1
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    • Tonight, Italy have pledged a €3 billion subsidy to the Italian working class to pay their energy bills.

    Useless nonentity too busy starting an internal factional fight
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,584
    edited September 2021
    It would be interesting to know which parts of the country aren't panic buying petrol and which are, and whether there's any correlation with any particular attributes you might find in the census data for example.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000
    MAIL: It’s panic at the pumps #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1441503988357214208/photo/1
  • • Tonight, Italy have pledged a €3 billion subsidy to the Italian working class to pay their energy bills.

    Useless nonentity too busy starting an internal factional fight

    I think that is quite an old story
  • Which party do you trust to deal with Germany’s problems?

    CDU/CSU: 16% (-1)
    SPD: 14%
    Greens: 10%
    Other: 12% (-1)
    None: 48% (+2)

    https://twitter.com/wahlen_de/status/1441505992592691204?s=21
  • Boris channelling Philip Thompson.

    Johnson is keen to link these wage increases to Brexit and the end of free movement. He believes this is what people voted for, and that the wage increases are an example of Brexit delivering. When a group of influential businessmen tried to bend his ear this month about labour shortages, Johnson simply asked if they had tried paying people more. He regarded that as the end of the conversation.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-spectre-of-the-seventies-haunts-the-tories-0vb8cpb03

    Paying people more = inflationary pressure = rising interest rates, and that’s where we are really exposed.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000
    ...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Amazingly, all the people Sky News interviewed queuing up for fuel said that they needed to get fuel today and they weren’t panic buying.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428
    edited September 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Missed out ‘murder a prostitute...’ - the Clarkson version of the test.
  • I live next door to a petrol station.I’m hearing quite a lot of tooting horns at the moment.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,079
    edited September 2021
    tlg86 said:

    Amazingly, all the people Sky News interviewed queuing up for fuel said that they needed to get fuel today and they weren’t panic buying.

    Is that a bit like when they raid a knocking shop and all the men in their claim they were actually just lost and popped in to ask for directions? When asked where their trousers are, every one of them spilled their cup of tea the nice young lady brought them.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    GMB boss is hand picked as a SKS loyalist too.

    SKS is off soon hopefully

    Personally I would settle for a Centrist leader with a bit of political nouse.

    SKS has none
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428

    I live next door to a petrol station.I’m hearing quite a lot of tooting horns at the moment.

    The only surprise is that Peston didn’t cause this run on the fuel.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,584

    I live next door to a petrol station.I’m hearing quite a lot of tooting horns at the moment.

    What do they hope to achieve by tooting their horns?
  • GMB boss is hand picked as a SKS loyalist too.

    SKS is off soon hopefully

    Personally I would settle for a Centrist leader with a bit of political nouse.

    SKS has none
    If that is GMB attitude to the Sun, a red wall newspaper, then Labour is not seeing power anytime soon

    For Labour's sake I hope Starmer wins through on this
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Far from his best, sorry to say.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,201
    tlg86 said:

    Amazingly, all the people Sky News interviewed queuing up for fuel said that they needed to get fuel today and they weren’t panic buying.

    Amazingly, people didn't say they were hoarding.

    Amazing, isn't it?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Far from his best, sorry to say.
    Yeah, should have added “and kill some prostitutes” to make it edgier.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    What beats me is that in about five days the petrol stations will still have petrol and people will still think they did the right thing by panic buying.

    What beats me is that in a year's time, 99.999% of the houses in the country will not have burned down, been struck by lightning or otherwise ceased to exist, and the householders will still think they did the right thing by paying for house insurance.
    We don’t tend to run out of insurance if we all try and buy at the same time though...
    Christ all fucking mighty. You make a point so crashingly obvious you fear you are insulting PB's collective intelligence by making it, and this happens.
    Tell you what, we can all stop posting and leave the floor to you. It’s a fecking discussion. Don’t like my posts, ignore them. I won’t care.
    OK, let me spell it out. The analogy is: the difference between me filling up my car next Tuesday when I would normally expect to, vs filling it up today when I am driving past a petrol station anyway and the tank is half full, represents a tiny investment in extra effort, which is equivalent to the relatively tiny cost of an insurance premium, and protects me against the relatively tiny possibility that in 5 days time there will still be a fuel shortage. Except the investment is much less and the danger much greater than in the house insurance analogy. A value bet in other words.

    Clear now?
  • I live next door to a petrol station.I’m hearing quite a lot of tooting horns at the moment.

    The only surprise is that Peston didn’t cause this run on the fuel.
    Shell/BP announce a few stations may have a supply problem, the press and media jump on it, and hey Preston we have panic buying

    There is no shortage of fuel and to be fair the media are trying to row back but they panicked the country in the first place
  • Scott_xP said:

    Breaking:

    EG Group, which has 389 petrol stations, is imposing a £30 limit on fuel because of ‘unprecedented customer demand’

    It says this will give ensure ‘all our customers have a fair chance to refuel

    It asks customers to treat staff with respect during challenging times

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1441483020398043137

    Yeah but BigG has an anecdote repeated at least 3 times involving Asda and a tanker that clearly proves there is no problem
    There was no problem, then idiots decided to spark a panic when there was no reason to do so - and Lemmings joined in the panic.
    I agree. I suspect there was a little bit of supply issue due to covid etc. I'm sure tanker drivers aren't running off to ferry cabbages around. Perhaps it was the management at the distribution centres overplaying their hands. Sadly it has sparked off a bit of a panic.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,096

    McLeish close to picking out that last splinter in his arse from the Scottish Indy fence he's been sitting on for years. Fear not though Yoons, he may yet be tempted back and his indy support would be conditional on the Union being unable to reform itself. Whadda ya think lads, what are the chance sthe the Union will reform itself?



    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1441414202996842502?s=20

    Why on earth should Tories care less what a former Labour FM thinks of the Union? As long as there is a Tory government at Westminster indyref2 will be refused.

    The only way there will ever be an indyref2 allowed is if there is a UK Labour government, in which case McLeish would probably back the Union again anyway and Starmer's No + devomax offer in such a scenario
  • Just not cricket....

    Ryder Cup: Bryson DeChambeau hits 'huge' 417-yard drive - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/golf/58686340
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Sources from todays TULO meeting say that Starmer claimed he was trying to find a consensus, but wouldn’t actually address any of the issues. He was instead "bollocked"

    WEAK WEAK WEAK
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    edited September 2021

    Burn...



    Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico
    You know. I've got to be honest. I'm starting to have my doubts as to how accurate that 7,000 hospitalisations per day forecast is going to prove.


    Prof. Christina Pagel @chrischirp

    ...infuriating when news stories focus on worst (v unlikely) scenario and then blame spim when it doesn't happen. Often ignoring that things are still quite bad even if they weren't worse



    Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico

    SPI-M said its R=1.5 and R=1.1 cases encompassed the "likely" envelope - ie covered the central 55-70% most likely scenarios. That means they said there was a 15-22.5% probability the number wld be *higher* than 7k/day.

    I've read through the paper repeatedly (did so when it came out and pulled my hair out at the headlines) and I can't see this 15-22.5% probability mentioned.

    "Four of these same models have further been used to explore the potential impact of a range of scenarios following changes in transmission. These scenarios assume changes in behaviour result in R values of 1.1, 1.5, or 2.0 on 6th September (In each of these scenarios, R drops over time after 6th September as vaccination and infection reduce the number of people who remain susceptible), and are run for a further eight weeks. These scenarios are shown in Figure 1 (R=1.1 – green; 1.5 – blue; 2.0 – red) for England’s hospital admissions.




    SPI-M-O deems the scenario where R = 2.0 (red) to be an extreme trajectory for the epidemic over the next few weeks; it is a possible outcome, but highly unlikely. A scenario of this scale might be more likely were waning immunity to play a greater role (see paragraph 17 above) or if a new variant of concern were to emerge. In contrast, a scenario of R = 1.1 (green) is much more possible through a range of many different situations. This range of R values, however, is not dissimilar to those seen for cases in Scotland in recent weeks.

    The two scenarios of R = 1.1 and R = 1.5 attempt to provide an envelope which contains the likely epidemic trajectory over the next couple of months. Even in the R =1.1 scenario, a large number of COVID-19 hospital admissions (up to around 2,000 a day) in England for a potentially protracted period of time is projected. Due to the uncertainties already discussed, it is not possible to project more accurately or further into the future. If combined with other winter pressures or seasonal effects; this could lead to a difficult few months for the health and care sector."


    Personally, at the time, I viewed the statement that "a scenario of R = 1.1 (green) is much more possible through a range of many different situations" to be pointing pretty strongly at "look at the green one"
    Which, at September 21st, had 900-1400 with a central value of 1000 projected.

    Describing it as "a 7000 hospitalisations per day forecast" is unworthy of anyone trying to analyse what was actually projected or said. Rhetoric rather than reason.

    EDIT: In addition, calling it "A 7,000 hospitalisations per day forecast" when the paper states:

    "The projections represent what the trajectory might be if the epidemic continued to follow the trends seen in the latest available data up to 6th September. They are neither forecasts nor predictions and cannot fully reflect recent changes in transmission that have not yet filtered through into surveillance data"
    ... is just being an arse.
    (Note that the bolding was actually in the paper itself when released)
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Far from his best, sorry to say.
    A "What have you done with the real Matt?" moment.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Just not cricket....

    Ryder Cup: Bryson DeChambeau hits 'huge' 417-yard drive - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/golf/58686340

    I was just watching that - was more impressed by this almost vertical hit

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/golf/58684764
  • Taz said:

    ping said:



    Lol

    I reckon there are still people who have those bog rolls and mega bags of pasta from 18 months ago!
    Why do peeps always panic buy pasta? I know it keeps for years, but so does rice. And what exactly are they going to eat with the pasta when it all goes 'The Road'? Rat?
    I’ve still got the dried lentils I bought ahead of the first brexit date.
    My panic buy food of choice is porridge. I reckon you could live for weeks on a few decent sized bags of porridge oats.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    ping said:



    Lol

    I reckon there are still people who have those bog rolls and mega bags of pasta from 18 months ago!
    Why do peeps always panic buy pasta? I know it keeps for years, but so does rice. And what exactly are they going to eat with the pasta when it all goes 'The Road'? Rat?
    They've also panic purchased chargrilled aubergine, capers and olives right?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,079
    edited September 2021

    I live next door to a petrol station.I’m hearing quite a lot of tooting horns at the moment.

    The only surprise is that Peston didn’t cause this run on the fuel.
    Shell/BP announce a few stations may have a supply problem, the press and media jump on it, and hey Preston we have panic buying

    There is no shortage of fuel and to be fair the media are trying to row back but they panicked the country in the first place
    If we think back to the stupid scenes at start of lockdown MKI, apparently there really wasn't actually that much of an uptick, about 10% increase, which caught the retailers out, but then the media megaphone amplifies the issue.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    What beats me is that in about five days the petrol stations will still have petrol and people will still think they did the right thing by panic buying.

    What beats me is that in a year's time, 99.999% of the houses in the country will not have burned down, been struck by lightning or otherwise ceased to exist, and the householders will still think they did the right thing by paying for house insurance.
    We don’t tend to run out of insurance if we all try and buy at the same time though...
    Christ all fucking mighty. You make a point so crashingly obvious you fear you are insulting PB's collective intelligence by making it, and this happens.
    Tell you what, we can all stop posting and leave the floor to you. It’s a fecking discussion. Don’t like my posts, ignore them. I won’t care.
    OK, let me spell it out. The analogy is: the difference between me filling up my car next Tuesday when I would normally expect to, vs filling it up today when I am driving past a petrol station anyway and the tank is half full, represents a tiny investment in extra effort, which is equivalent to the relatively tiny cost of an insurance premium, and protects me against the relatively tiny possibility that in 5 days time there will still be a fuel shortage. Except the investment is much less and the danger much greater than in the house insurance analogy. A value bet in other words.

    Clear now?
    No one out there thinks ‘they’ are panicking. They are all being rational, like yourself. You are insuring yourself against the problem you are helping to create. But anyone rushing out before they need is doing exactly that, just as in March 2020.
This discussion has been closed.