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That YouGov LAB lead poll is increasingly looking like an outlier – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,873
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    Genuinely riveting, both the overall theory and the detail, and the match with the biblical account. And brilliant that Nature is free to air like that.
    I presume only some papers - if the authors can drum up the grant moneys (which some funding agencies to provide for that purpose). But it's great such a fascinating paper can be made fully available.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,873
    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    "causing extreme disarticulation and skeletal fragmentation in nearby humans."
    eww
    I don't think I've seen any photo of remains like that outside a Great War archaeological excavation.
  • I noticed that the future Queen of Canada went to congratulate the player who defeated Canada's finest in the US Open tennis final.

    Not just that but played with her and against her and has a very good forehand according to Emma
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,873
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    Genuinely riveting, both the overall theory and the detail, and the match with the biblical account. And brilliant that Nature is free to air like that.
    PS Some of the evidence is very much along the lines of that used for the Chicxulub impact crater that did in the (terrestrial) dinosaurs.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Starmer has already lost far too much authority to seriously contemplate pushing through such rule changes - particularly with little consultation in advance. Much of the goodwill felt towards him a year ago has evaporated.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    murali_s said:

    Would Raynor be any better than Starmer?

    Hmmm..

    No.
    I don’t find her particularly likeable - quite adversarial. Who knows - maybe the electorate will prefer that to Boris
    Depends what you mean better.

    Is she less divisive in Labour - Yes

    Does she have more passion - Yes

    Does she have more political nouse - Yes

    Does she have more personality - Yes

    More charisma - Yes

    More conviction - Yes,

    More ability to lead, more likely to develop policies,more vision, more of an alternative to the Tories, more hope for Labour.

    Do i particularly rate her compared to Boris probably not, compared to the current useless nonentity definitely

  • Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    "causing extreme disarticulation and skeletal fragmentation in nearby humans."
    eww
    I don't think I've seen any photo of remains like that outside a Great War archaeological excavation.
    My wife is a coroner's officer, and she's seen pretty close. There's a reason they describe the effect on a human body hit by a train at speed as 'disruption'
  • justin124 said:

    The apparent fiasco re-leadership rule changes confirms Starmer's disastrous timing of the by elections a few months back. He is seriously lacking in 'nous' and the political antennare required of a political leader. Very little sign of a political brain.

    Terrible for a politician. Quite fitting for the Labour Party though.

    image
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Deputy Leader

    Scottish Leader

    Welsh First Minister

    London Mayor

    Every Union in attendance at todays NEC

    All opposed to rule change

    The useless nonentity has picked a fight, having picked the fight he needed to win it, and badly misjudged the mood.with even the most right wing led Unions failing to support him

    All wings of Party smell blood.

    He is even rumoured to be preparing a joke if "oh Jeremy Corbyn" chant starts during his speech on Wednesday.

    Bet that will be a side splitter.

    Anyone who thinks he has any chance of ever leading Lab to victory is kidding themselves.

    Maybe it is not widely known, but Drakeford is a Corbynista and very much pro Corbyn
    The Scottish leader isnt nor is Khan or many of the Unions at the NEC today

    SKS has unbelievably united all wings against him
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,873

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    "causing extreme disarticulation and skeletal fragmentation in nearby humans."
    eww
    I don't think I've seen any photo of remains like that outside a Great War archaeological excavation.
    My wife is a coroner's officer, and she's seen pretty close. There's a reason they describe the effect on a human body hit by a train at speed as 'disruption'
    Quite so. I was thinking specifically of now-skeletal remains in archaeological digs but the descriptions of traumatic disruption by collisions, bombs, etc., are very much of the same ilk.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,770

    Deputy Leader

    Scottish Leader

    Welsh First Minister

    London Mayor

    Every Union in attendance at todays NEC

    All opposed to rule change

    The useless nonentity has picked a fight, having picked the fight he needed to win it, and badly misjudged the mood.with even the most right wing led Unions failing to support him

    All wings of Party smell blood.

    He is even rumoured to be preparing a joke if "oh Jeremy Corbyn" chant starts during his speech on Wednesday.

    Bet that will be a side splitter.

    Anyone who thinks he has any chance of ever leading Lab to victory is kidding themselves.

    Maybe it is not widely known, but Drakeford is a Corbynista and very much pro Corbyn
    Drakeford should get his own ideas. He's done quite well in all of this. Shackling himself to the arch-nutter won't help him.

    Imagine Drakeford's vs Corbyn's CVs.. "Once tied shoelaces"..
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,533
    edited September 2021
    In a big article highlighted in the Guardian about the fact that Brexit is the cause of food and petrol shortages Freedland bravely points out that no-one on the entire planet in brave enough to say that Brexit is the cause of food and petrol shortages:

    "The cause of our food and petrol shortages is Brexit – yet no one dares name it"
    Jonathan Freedland



    PS Obviously no-one at all on PB is that brave.

  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    rcs1000 said:

    SandraMc said:

    Shocking article about wider context of murder trial of the kid who was stabbed in the park that finished today....

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kvnxa/snapchat-is-fuelling-britains-teen-murder-epidemic

    Not sure i agree with the premise its all snapchat fault, but there is a serious.problem that is getting worse.

    OMG.
    I just feel grateful I am not living in London with teenage children.
    That article lacks any kind of evidence about teenage murder rates in general, and about the prevalence of SnapChat (or other social media) in driving the murders that did happen.

    It's a great story, but it may simply be completely inaccurate. It may be that 13 year olds on SnapChat are less likely to commit murders than their peers. We just don't know, because it's a piece of journalism that sets out to tell a story.

    And, likely, the author had decided the conclusion and went looking for supporting evidence. (Not unlike certain posters.)
    It pretty much to be expected from VICE, unfortunately.

    Katherine Birbalsingh may be right though; just ban teenagers from having phones. Problem solved!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting there are an average of 12.9 petrol stations in each UK constituency. Slightly less than I would have guessed.

    Snap. I remember there being two dozen in Bedford growing up, and that wasn't even a whole constituency.
    I can think of the location of 4 in my constiuency but i can think of at least 5 former sites.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    justin124 said:

    The apparent fiasco re-leadership rule changes confirms Starmer's disastrous timing of the by elections a few months back. He is seriously lacking in 'nous' and the political antennare required of a political leader. Very little sign of a political brain.

    Terrible for a politician. Quite fitting for the Labour Party though.

    image
    That sooo doesn't work.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Well, my dog now has his Belgian passport.

    He passed up one of my mussels tonight, and really needs to make more effort to fit in.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited September 2021

    murali_s said:

    Would Raynor be any better than Starmer?

    Hmmm..

    No.
    I don’t find her particularly likeable - quite adversarial. Who knows - maybe the electorate will prefer that to Boris
    Though I think Johnson would find her difficult to handle, the basic problem for Labour is they need to realise that in order to win an election they have to offer something to appeal to moderate middle-Englanders who vote Tory (with some reluctance presently). Rayner doesn’t offer that appeal - Nandy possibly does, and Creasy certainly does. But the party as whole has to change its approach - otherwise, it’s doomed to perpetual opposition.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419
    algarkirk said:

    In a big article highlighted in the Guardian about the fact that Brexit is the cause of food and petrol shortages Freedland bravely points out that no-one on the entire planet in brave enough to say that Brexit is the cause of food and petrol shortages:

    "The cause of our food and petrol shortages is Brexit – yet no one dares name it"
    Jonathan Freedland



    PS Obviously no-one at all on PB is that brave.

    Or on Facebook or twitter or social media.

    Brexit residing rent free in many peoples heads.

    It’s a contributory factor, no more. Brexit is effing tedious. Diehard remainers blame everything bad on it and diehard leavers everything good.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,201
    Pulpstar said:


    Wales 19
    LABLabour40.9%
    CONConservative36.1%
    PCPlaid Cymru9.9%
    LDLiberal Democrat6.0%
    BRXThe Brexit Party5.4%
    GRNGreen1.0%

    Poll from the GE
    Lab 37 (-4)
    Con 31 (-5)
    Plaid 15 (+5)
    Rfm 6 (+1)
    Grn 5 (+4)
    LDem 4 (-2)

    Lab probably gains Delyn and Bridgend, perhaps Clywd South - maybe the Tories lose Ynys Mon to Plaid.
    Beyond that not much doing.
    The Tories would be very happy with that at the next GE
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    Genuinely riveting, both the overall theory and the detail, and the match with the biblical account. And brilliant that Nature is free to air like that.
    PS Some of the evidence is very much along the lines of that used for the Chicxulub impact crater that did in the (terrestrial) dinosaurs.
    Gonna have to stop you there, pre-KT avian dinosaurs aren't particularly thought to have flown. Feathers were their most distinctive link with birds (though other flavours of dinosaur probably had them too).

    And while I'm on about it, dinosaurs are divided into saurischian, lizard-hipped, and ornithischian, bird-hipped. Guess what? Birds are descended from the saurischians.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,533

    murali_s said:

    Would Raynor be any better than Starmer?

    Hmmm..

    No.
    I don’t find her particularly likeable - quite adversarial. Who knows - maybe the electorate will prefer that to Boris
    Depends what you mean better.

    Is she less divisive in Labour - Yes

    Does she have more passion - Yes

    Does she have more political nouse - Yes

    Does she have more personality - Yes

    More charisma - Yes

    More conviction - Yes,

    More ability to lead, more likely to develop policies,more vision, more of an alternative to the Tories, more hope for Labour.

    Do i particularly rate her compared to Boris probably not, compared to the current useless nonentity definitely

    Labour polled 3.5 million votes less than the Tories in 2019. They need a couple of million Tory voters to switch. SKS is much more likely to achieve this than Rayner.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    UK Local R

    Looking forward to Kettering's arrival at the top of the chart in a couple of days.

    "Doing a Scotland" i think it is called.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,746
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    Carnyx said:

    Fior light relief, it appears that Sodom's destruction was a Tunguska-type event ...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3.pdf

    Genuinely riveting, both the overall theory and the detail, and the match with the biblical account. And brilliant that Nature is free to air like that.
    I presume only some papers - if the authors can drum up the grant moneys (which some funding agencies to provide for that purpose). But it's great such a fascinating paper can be made fully available.
    I'm not sure whether nature is all open access, but I haven't published a non open access article for at least five years. The research councils expect publication fees in the proposal now and even our charity funders are happy - a low few thousand to get the results out there is not big in most research grants.

    Big change, for the good, in science. Although it has led to a proliferation of junk journals too (there are always people willing to pay to publish, even if no one would pay to read)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428
    edited September 2021
    IanB2 said:

    Well, my dog now has his Belgian passport.

    He passed up one of my mussels tonight, and really needs to make more effort to fit in.

    But were the mussels from Brussels though?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    BBC

    There are 8,384 petrol stations in the UK with around 100 experiencing problems

    Thanks Scott
    Pye Green petrol station was down to two pumps and a long queue for them when I came past, which is annoying from a personal as I wanted to refuel (like normal on a Friday night after a week’s driving).

    Thanks, national newspapers.
    It is said that most languages do not have a word for "smug." Even English does not have a word for the "filled up at 8.30 a.m. and halfway through my second martini" feeling overwhelming me now.

    Sorry, but there it is.
    Ennui?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    IanB2 said:

    Well, my dog now has his Belgian passport.

    He passed up one of my mussels tonight, and really needs to make more effort to fit in.

    You have no idea how bad things are back in Blighty. Turn him into a carbonnade flamande and bring him home in tupperware.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428

    murali_s said:

    Would Raynor be any better than Starmer?

    Hmmm..

    No.
    I don’t find her particularly likeable - quite adversarial. Who knows - maybe the electorate will prefer that to Boris
    Though I think Johnson would find her difficult to handle, the basic problem for Labour is they need to realise that in order to win an election they have to offer something to appeal to moderate middle-Englanders who vote Tory (with some reluctance presently). Rayner doesn’t offer that appeal - Nandy possibly does, and Creasy certainly does. But the party as whole has to change its approach - otherwise, it’s doomed to perpetual opposition.
    This is absolutely the point. Corbin and his ilk seemed to think enough people would be Marxists. Never going to happen. Labour gains power by moving to the centre. Tony Blair did that. Middle class Torres saw him as one of them. I think Starmer could do similar, but his party doesn’t want to move.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720

    rcs1000 said:

    Cases in England up 5k again today. I think thats 6 days running.

    Meanwhile:

    Hospital numbers in…

    That’s a trend like to see. Almost below 5000 in hospital now.



    https://twitter.com/ThatRyanChap/status/1441422590132768770?s=20

    If it's youngsters getting infected, and they're not passing it on to oldies....hospital rates will continue to fall - and in a largely vaccinated population, the hospitalisation rate is what we should be paying attention to.
    I'm sorry, but @Chris told me very emphatically that case-to-hospitalization rates had not dropped.
    I did notice, looking back, that he'd responded to my graph by challenging the reliability of the ONS daily incidence figures and saying we could really only rely on the prevalence ones.

    So I've gone and compared the ONS prevalence numbers for England to the number in hospital in England (lagged to coincide peaks and normalised to equalise the height of the peaks).

    After all - number infected at any one time compared to number seriously ill in hospital at any one time should be the comparable metrics.

    Guess what:

    "A picture is worth a thousand words"
    Well done Andy_Cooke!
  • Are the Brexiters losing Shippers?

    https://twitter.com/shippersunbound/status/1441424733011066880?s=21

    Brexit was always about the right to bugger things up ourselves...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Alistair said:

    UK Local R

    Looking forward to Kettering's arrival at the top of the chart in a couple of days.

    "Doing a Scotland" i think it is called.
    I think it's the exit wave finally arriving in places that didn't really have one over the summer.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    Well, my dog now has his Belgian passport.

    He passed up one of my mussels tonight, and really needs to make more effort to fit in.

    You have no idea how bad things are back in Blighty. Turn him into a carbonnade flamande and bring him home in tupperware.
    I wonder whether Calais Eurotunnel sells duty free bog roll?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Scott_xP said:

    PM overrules Home Sec and Transport Sec to allow in foreign lorry drivers to help fill the shortage despite Grant Shapps saying being out of the EU was helping the situation https://bit.ly/2XLOe3K

    Bad decision. Employers should increase pay to the market rate to fill the vacancies.
    Not necessarily- depends if it is temporary or permanent.

    If permanent you are right / wages need to shift to the market clearing price

    If it’s a temporary shortage due to self-isolation or the limited number of licenses last year then may be you allow in addition labour for a short period. If you gave exhausted the available supply of HGV drivers, for example, you wouldn’t want REMEies quitting the army because they can make 3 years salary quickly
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,164
    edited September 2021

    murali_s said:

    Would Raynor be any better than Starmer?

    Hmmm..

    No.
    I don’t find her particularly likeable - quite adversarial. Who knows - maybe the electorate will prefer that to Boris
    Though I think Johnson would find her difficult to handle, the basic problem for Labour is they need to realise that in order to win an election they have to offer something to appeal to moderate middle-Englanders who vote Tory (with some reluctance presently). Rayner doesn’t offer that appeal - Nandy possibly does, and Creasy certainly does. But the party as whole has to change its approach - otherwise, it’s doomed to perpetual opposition.
    This is absolutely the point. Corbin and his ilk seemed to think enough people would be Marxists. Never going to happen. Labour gains power by moving to the centre. Tony Blair did that. Middle class Torres saw him as one of them. I think Starmer could do similar, but his party doesn’t want to move.
    The problem for Labour is it hasn't developed the intellectual apparatus to face in all the directions it needs to, and which isn't actually as impossible as it sounds to be. The market for baldly pro-globalisation technocracy, mainly distinguished by higher public spending than the Cameroonian Tories' version, has markedly shrunk since the 1990's, and Mandelson's tunes aren't going to cut it any more. Neither is an approach that sometimes consciously revels in alienating parts of business, without always a constructive end goal, as some Corbynites were apt to. It needs an entirely new, or neo-Wilsonian vocabulary, that can embrace both left and right, or both material and moral aspiration.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:


    Wales 19
    LABLabour40.9%
    CONConservative36.1%
    PCPlaid Cymru9.9%
    LDLiberal Democrat6.0%
    BRXThe Brexit Party5.4%
    GRNGreen1.0%

    Poll from the GE
    Lab 37 (-4)
    Con 31 (-5)
    Plaid 15 (+5)
    Rfm 6 (+1)
    Grn 5 (+4)
    LDem 4 (-2)

    Lab probably gains Delyn and Bridgend, perhaps Clywd South - maybe the Tories lose Ynys Mon to Plaid.
    Beyond that not much doing.
    The Tories would be very happy with that at the next GE
    The poll actually implies no Labour gains at all in Wales - though the local circumstances in Delyn might give them that seat. As it happens, I suspect this poll is off - as are the GB Yougov polls - and that Labour enjoys a more substantial lead in Wales. As it stands, it suggests a GB Tory lead of 10.5%.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    GMB replace a Starmer ally with a Corbynite on Labour NEC with immediate effect

    Sibthorpe, who is replacing Warnett on the NEC, is a GMB political officer who used to work for Jeremy Corbyn as head of events when he was Labour leader.

    Warnett unfortunately has pancreatic cancer and a poor prognosis.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291

    murali_s said:

    Would Raynor be any better than Starmer?

    Hmmm..

    No.
    I don’t find her particularly likeable - quite adversarial. Who knows - maybe the electorate will prefer that to Boris
    Though I think Johnson would find her difficult to handle, the basic problem for Labour is they need to realise that in order to win an election they have to offer something to appeal to moderate middle-Englanders who vote Tory (with some reluctance presently). Rayner doesn’t offer that appeal - Nandy possibly does, and Creasy certainly does. But the party as whole has to change its approach - otherwise, it’s doomed to perpetual opposition.
    This is absolutely the point. Corbin and his ilk seemed to think enough people would be Marxists. Never going to happen. Labour gains power by moving to the centre. Tony Blair did that. Middle class Torres saw him as one of them. I think Starmer could do similar, but his party doesn’t want to move.
    The problem for Labour is it hasn't developed the intellectual apparatus to face in all the directions it needs to, and which isn't actually as impossible as it sounds to be. The market for baldly pro-globalisation technocracy, mainly distinguished by higher public spending than the Cameroonian Tories' version, has markedly shrunk since the 1990's, and Mandelson's tunes aren't going to cut it any more. Neither is an approach that sometimes consciously revels in alienating parts of business, without always a constructive end goal, as some Corbynites were apt to. It needs an entirely new, or neo-Wilsonian vocabulary.
    “We are redefining and we are restarting our socialism in terms of the Green revolution”. Good old Harold.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    algarkirk said:

    murali_s said:

    Would Raynor be any better than Starmer?

    Hmmm..

    No.
    I don’t find her particularly likeable - quite adversarial. Who knows - maybe the electorate will prefer that to Boris
    Depends what you mean better.

    Is she less divisive in Labour - Yes

    Does she have more passion - Yes

    Does she have more political nouse - Yes

    Does she have more personality - Yes

    More charisma - Yes

    More conviction - Yes,

    More ability to lead, more likely to develop policies,more vision, more of an alternative to the Tories, more hope for Labour.

    Do i particularly rate her compared to Boris probably not, compared to the current useless nonentity definitely

    Labour polled 3.5 million votes less than the Tories in 2019. They need a couple of million Tory voters to switch. SKS is much more likely to achieve this than Rayner.

    Tory to Labour switchers currently being outnumbered by Lab to Green and Lab to LD switchers and Lab to stay at home.

    2019 was a BREXIT election SKS has zero chance or replicating 2017 Labour performance.

    Burnham could. Rayner might get slightly fewer Con to Lab but would shore up other 3 categories
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Incompetent as well as useless nonentity

    Ann Black for Labour NEC
    @AnnBlackLabour
    ·
    4h
    The calm before the storm ... NEC meets in 3 hours, still no papers
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    UK Local R

    Looking forward to Kettering's arrival at the top of the chart in a couple of days.

    "Doing a Scotland" i think it is called.
    I think it's the exit wave finally arriving in places that didn't really have one over the summer.
    I'd love to know the whys about it though. What was the local conditions that stopped mass spreading before the last couple days in Kettering.

    What was the super spreader event that finally triggered it?

    Os there something that we can learn so that events can be planned to avoid mass spreading events.
  • McLeish close to picking out that last splinter in his arse from the Scottish Indy fence he's been sitting on for years. Fear not though Yoons, he may yet be tempted back and his indy support would be conditional on the Union being unable to reform itself. Whadda ya think lads, what are the chance sthe the Union will reform itself?



    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1441414202996842502?s=20
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428
    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    UK Local R

    Looking forward to Kettering's arrival at the top of the chart in a couple of days.

    "Doing a Scotland" i think it is called.
    I think it's the exit wave finally arriving in places that didn't really have one over the summer.
    I'd love to know the whys about it though. What was the local conditions that stopped mass spreading before the last couple days in Kettering.

    What was the super spreader event that finally triggered it?

    Os there something that we can learn so that events can be planned to avoid mass spreading events.
    Surely it’ll be among the school kids though? Probably takes a while to take off, but will burn through pretty fast.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Encouraging.
    Britain is on the verge of joining the EU Covid vaccine passport scheme, sources in Brussels and Westminster have confirmed.

    The EU Digital Covid Certificate should make travelling in Europe easier and cheaper for British tourists.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/uk-brink-joining-eu-passport-scheme-sources-confirm-nhs-system/
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    algarkirk said:

    murali_s said:

    Would Raynor be any better than Starmer?

    Hmmm..

    No.
    I don’t find her particularly likeable - quite adversarial. Who knows - maybe the electorate will prefer that to Boris
    Depends what you mean better.

    Is she less divisive in Labour - Yes

    Does she have more passion - Yes

    Does she have more political nouse - Yes

    Does she have more personality - Yes

    More charisma - Yes

    More conviction - Yes,

    More ability to lead, more likely to develop policies,more vision, more of an alternative to the Tories, more hope for Labour.

    Do i particularly rate her compared to Boris probably not, compared to the current useless nonentity definitely

    Labour polled 3.5 million votes less than the Tories in 2019. They need a couple of million Tory voters to switch. SKS is much more likely to achieve this than Rayner.

    Tory to Labour switchers currently being outnumbered by Lab to Green and Lab to LD switchers and Lab to stay at home.

    2019 was a BREXIT election SKS has zero chance or replicating 2017 Labour performance.

    Burnham could. Rayner might get slightly fewer Con to Lab but would shore up other 3 categories
    I think that is too pessimistic in that we see polls currently giving Labour 35%/36% even with the Greens polling 6% - 9%.In a GE the Greens would fall back to circa 3% with most switching to Labour. I can see Labour getting 38%/39% next time.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,201
    justin124 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:


    Wales 19
    LABLabour40.9%
    CONConservative36.1%
    PCPlaid Cymru9.9%
    LDLiberal Democrat6.0%
    BRXThe Brexit Party5.4%
    GRNGreen1.0%

    Poll from the GE
    Lab 37 (-4)
    Con 31 (-5)
    Plaid 15 (+5)
    Rfm 6 (+1)
    Grn 5 (+4)
    LDem 4 (-2)

    Lab probably gains Delyn and Bridgend, perhaps Clywd South - maybe the Tories lose Ynys Mon to Plaid.
    Beyond that not much doing.
    The Tories would be very happy with that at the next GE
    The poll actually implies no Labour gains at all in Wales - though the local circumstances in Delyn might give them that seat. As it happens, I suspect this poll is off - as are the GB Yougov polls - and that Labour enjoys a more substantial lead in Wales. As it stands, it suggests a GB Tory lead of 10.5%.
    Ye,I think Labour would relatively outperform this in Wales at a GE, that's why I gave a few more seats than the headline to Lab.
    Wrexham, Bridgend and Vale of Clwyd all in tight scraps but can't see Labour getting the 8 or so gains they ought to get from Wales if they're heading to any sort of power.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    edited September 2021
    OT

    Pembrokeshire County council are advertising for a Minute Clerk. Do you think 5ft9 is too tall?
  • Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    UK Local R

    Looking forward to Kettering's arrival at the top of the chart in a couple of days.

    "Doing a Scotland" i think it is called.
    I think it's the exit wave finally arriving in places that didn't really have one over the summer.
    I'd love to know the whys about it though. What was the local conditions that stopped mass spreading before the last couple days in Kettering.

    What was the super spreader event that finally triggered it?

    Os there something that we can learn so that events can be planned to avoid mass spreading events.
    Presumably it's just spreading from Corby to Kettering. And the Corby spike is due to the ties with Scotland.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    UK Local R

    Looking forward to Kettering's arrival at the top of the chart in a couple of days.

    "Doing a Scotland" i think it is called.
    I think it's the exit wave finally arriving in places that didn't really have one over the summer.
    I'd love to know the whys about it though. What was the local conditions that stopped mass spreading before the last couple days in Kettering.

    What was the super spreader event that finally triggered it?

    Os there something that we can learn so that events can be planned to avoid mass spreading events.
    Surely it’ll be among the school kids though? Probably takes a while to take off, but will burn through pretty fast.
    Kettering appears to be all age groups up to about mid fifties.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I noticed that the future Queen of Canada went to congratulate the player who defeated Canada's finest in the US Open tennis final.

    Not just that but played with her and against her and has a very good forehand according to Emma
    Emma’s smart enough not to diss her

    “Very good forehand” sounds like fanning with faint praise
  • Since we're going all Ancient Evenings..
    Sounds pretty good actually.

    https://youtu.be/QUcTsFe1PVs
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    UK Local R

    Looking forward to Kettering's arrival at the top of the chart in a couple of days.

    "Doing a Scotland" i think it is called.
    I think it's the exit wave finally arriving in places that didn't really have one over the summer.
    I'd love to know the whys about it though. What was the local conditions that stopped mass spreading before the last couple days in Kettering.

    What was the super spreader event that finally triggered it?

    Os there something that we can learn so that events can be planned to avoid mass spreading events.
    I'd actually go the other way, we want to encourage everywhere to have its exit wave now while it's still mild.

    On theories, I'd guess at a mix of schools, students and end of summer events.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    algarkirk said:

    murali_s said:

    Would Raynor be any better than Starmer?

    Hmmm..

    No.
    I don’t find her particularly likeable - quite adversarial. Who knows - maybe the electorate will prefer that to Boris
    Depends what you mean better.

    Is she less divisive in Labour - Yes

    Does she have more passion - Yes

    Does she have more political nouse - Yes

    Does she have more personality - Yes

    More charisma - Yes

    More conviction - Yes,

    More ability to lead, more likely to develop policies,more vision, more of an alternative to the Tories, more hope for Labour.

    Do i particularly rate her compared to Boris probably not, compared to the current useless nonentity definitely

    Labour polled 3.5 million votes less than the Tories in 2019. They need a couple of million Tory voters to switch. SKS is much more likely to achieve this than Rayner.

    Tory to LD or Tory to Green will do just fine.

    As long as Lab can get close to 2017 levels of enthusiasm from its natural vote
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited September 2021
    Farooq said:

    Omnium said:

    eek said:

    F**king useless nonentity. Bring on a leadership challenge

    Michael Savage
    @michaelsavage
    More than one union leader has “gone for” Starmer at a key meeting tonight. Sounds pretty brutal. Row over party rules now clearly threatening to overshadow a conference he himself has talked up as key to his leadership.

    And replace him with who exactly?
    Quite.

    Starmer isn't great as a leader, although he has some really good traits that will help him.

    Labour will split sooner or later, and to be fair to the left it really is the moderates that are betraying the cause. However the cause is some daft c19 manifesto written by a layabout.

    What Starmer needs to do is get the split done with - off goes Corbyn, off goes McDonald, and then I think it stops. No sensible Labour politician will throw themselves over the cliff. Maybe Abbot, Dawn whatever, Long-Bailey, and Burgeon.

    PS. whatever=Butler.
    Ken Loach....on Starmer, Jezza and "proper Labour".

    https://youtu.be/PVP6PlX_UUA
    Let me guess "proper Labour" are antisemites like him?
    careful, I like reading your posts and I don't want you booted
    Why would I get booted for asking if the antisemite Ken Loach who was "against the witch-hunt" until he got expelled out of the Labour Party like other antisemites prefers other antisemites like himself? 🤔

    Antisemites like Loach have a tendency to stick together.
  • OT

    Pembrokeshire County council are advertising for a Minute Clerk. Do you think 5ft9 is too tall?

    That reminds me of the twelve inch pianist joke...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    OT

    Pembrokeshire County council are advertising for a Minute Clerk. Do you think 5ft9 is too tall?

    60 secs a day or week?

  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Pulpstar said:

    justin124 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:


    Wales 19
    LABLabour40.9%
    CONConservative36.1%
    PCPlaid Cymru9.9%
    LDLiberal Democrat6.0%
    BRXThe Brexit Party5.4%
    GRNGreen1.0%

    Poll from the GE
    Lab 37 (-4)
    Con 31 (-5)
    Plaid 15 (+5)
    Rfm 6 (+1)
    Grn 5 (+4)
    LDem 4 (-2)

    Lab probably gains Delyn and Bridgend, perhaps Clywd South - maybe the Tories lose Ynys Mon to Plaid.
    Beyond that not much doing.
    The Tories would be very happy with that at the next GE
    The poll actually implies no Labour gains at all in Wales - though the local circumstances in Delyn might give them that seat. As it happens, I suspect this poll is off - as are the GB Yougov polls - and that Labour enjoys a more substantial lead in Wales. As it stands, it suggests a GB Tory lead of 10.5%.
    Ye,I think Labour would relatively outperform this in Wales at a GE, that's why I gave a few more seats than the headline to Lab.
    Wrexham, Bridgend and Vale of Clwyd all in tight scraps but can't see Labour getting the 8 or so gains they ought to get from Wales if they're heading to any sort of power.
    Setting aside the new boundaries for now, I believe Labour has the potential to win back all the seats lost in Wales in 2019 - and to go beyond that to take Aberconway, Vale of Glamorgan and - possibly Preseli Pembrokeshire. Anglesey I am more doubtful of - in that personal votes there really seem to matter.
  • A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html
  • Didnt OGH refer to Rayner as articulate?. He had to be taking the piss.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Gary Smith, the new leader of the GMB trade union who was widely expected to be supportive of Starmer’s leadership, asked Starmer whether he was “embarrassed” by Labour’s position on energy

    GMB general secretary also asked whether Starmer knew “how embarrassing it is” for Labour to be pushing for a £10-an-hour minimum wage.

    I reckon if SKS caved on those 2 issues GMB might yet deal on Electoral College

    Unison although against today could yet be persuaded as well.

    I think SKS needs a 3rd union USDAW to support it as well to have a chance.

    Not impossible knowing Mandelsons hold over SKS that he offers all sorts of policy change to yet get this through
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,750

    rcs1000 said:

    Cases in England up 5k again today. I think thats 6 days running.

    Meanwhile:

    Hospital numbers in…

    That’s a trend like to see. Almost below 5000 in hospital now.



    https://twitter.com/ThatRyanChap/status/1441422590132768770?s=20

    If it's youngsters getting infected, and they're not passing it on to oldies....hospital rates will continue to fall - and in a largely vaccinated population, the hospitalisation rate is what we should be paying attention to.
    I'm sorry, but @Chris told me very emphatically that case-to-hospitalization rates had not dropped.
    I did notice, looking back, that he'd responded to my graph by challenging the reliability of the ONS daily incidence figures and saying we could really only rely on the prevalence ones.

    So I've gone and compared the ONS prevalence numbers for England to the number in hospital in England (lagged to coincide peaks and normalised to equalise the height of the peaks).

    After all - number infected at any one time compared to number seriously ill in hospital at any one time should be the comparable metrics.

    Guess what:

    That's a caricature of what I actually wrote.

    But in any case if you put the graphs of ONS modelled incidence and ONS prevalence side by side, you can see that there are large variations in the ratio between the two (compare last Autumn with this Summer, for example). So what I actually wrote - that looking at prevalence instead of incidence "would seem like a more appropriate comparison" is amply borne out by what you've done.

    However, for some reason you've now switched from daily hospitalisation rates before (which was appropriate to the REACT study) to total number in hospital. I've certainly heard it said that people are now spending less time in hospital. If that's true, the two won't be equivalent.

    It looks to me as though there is a real difference between the ONS and REACT figures, but obviously you would need to compare like with like to be sure about it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419

    Didnt OGH refer to Rayner as articulate?. He had to be taking the piss.

    Yeah, she’s anything but and her performance against Raab was anything but. But that is not a bad thing.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Taz said:
    30 quid an hour isn’t piecework.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585
    "Anders Tegnell: Sweden won the argument on Covid

    The state epidemiologist told Freddie Sayers he was right on the key questions"

    https://unherd.com/thepost/anders-tegnell-sweden-won-the-argument-on-covid/
  • eekeek Posts: 28,390

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    Didn’t @RochdalePioneers kention this was going to happen on Thursday morning - impact will be Asda and Sainburys unless it’s rapidly fixed
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,201

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    Sounds wrong, that sort of business should be nowhere near administration in the present circs
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,889


    The problem for Labour is it hasn't developed the intellectual apparatus to face in all the directions it needs to, and which isn't actually as impossible as it sounds to be. The market for baldly pro-globalisation technocracy, mainly distinguished by higher public spending than the Cameroonian Tories' version, has markedly shrunk since the 1990's, and Mandelson's tunes aren't going to cut it any more. Neither is an approach that sometimes consciously revels in alienating parts of business, without always a constructive end goal, as some Corbynites were apt to. It needs an entirely new, or neo-Wilsonian vocabulary, that can embrace both left and right, or both material and moral aspiration.

    One thing of which I'm convinced is the solutions of the past aren't the solutions of the future.

    Labour has to do the hard thinking about what 2030s Britain looks like - that's the 2029 Manifesto, new ideas, something quite radical which after nearly two decades of Conservative-led Government may not be wholly unwelcome.

    Trying to imagine the Britain of the 2030s isn't easy - it requires a lot of time and thought and that's the luxury of opposition - the time to formulate new ideas and do that radical thinking which the party of government can't really manage.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,080
    edited September 2021
    stodge said:


    The problem for Labour is it hasn't developed the intellectual apparatus to face in all the directions it needs to, and which isn't actually as impossible as it sounds to be. The market for baldly pro-globalisation technocracy, mainly distinguished by higher public spending than the Cameroonian Tories' version, has markedly shrunk since the 1990's, and Mandelson's tunes aren't going to cut it any more. Neither is an approach that sometimes consciously revels in alienating parts of business, without always a constructive end goal, as some Corbynites were apt to. It needs an entirely new, or neo-Wilsonian vocabulary, that can embrace both left and right, or both material and moral aspiration.

    One thing of which I'm convinced is the solutions of the past aren't the solutions of the future.

    Labour has to do the hard thinking about what 2030s Britain looks like - that's the 2029 Manifesto, new ideas, something quite radical which after nearly two decades of Conservative-led Government may not be wholly unwelcome.

    Trying to imagine the Britain of the 2030s isn't easy - it requires a lot of time and thought and that's the luxury of opposition - the time to formulate new ideas and do that radical thinking which the party of government can't really manage.
    Good new ideas are severely lacking across the political spectrum and have been for a long time.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,390
    Pulpstar said:

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    Sounds wrong, that sort of business should be nowhere near administration in the present circs
    Asda and Sainsburys pay £x a delivery, costs rise 40% and the supermarkets say not our problem, you agreed that we pay £x and we aren’t paying more.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Chris said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cases in England up 5k again today. I think thats 6 days running.

    Meanwhile:

    Hospital numbers in…

    That’s a trend like to see. Almost below 5000 in hospital now.



    https://twitter.com/ThatRyanChap/status/1441422590132768770?s=20

    If it's youngsters getting infected, and they're not passing it on to oldies....hospital rates will continue to fall - and in a largely vaccinated population, the hospitalisation rate is what we should be paying attention to.
    I'm sorry, but @Chris told me very emphatically that case-to-hospitalization rates had not dropped.
    I did notice, looking back, that he'd responded to my graph by challenging the reliability of the ONS daily incidence figures and saying we could really only rely on the prevalence ones.

    So I've gone and compared the ONS prevalence numbers for England to the number in hospital in England (lagged to coincide peaks and normalised to equalise the height of the peaks).

    After all - number infected at any one time compared to number seriously ill in hospital at any one time should be the comparable metrics.

    Guess what:

    That's a caricature of what I actually wrote.

    But in any case if you put the graphs of ONS modelled incidence and ONS prevalence side by side, you can see that there are large variations in the ratio between the two (compare last Autumn with this Summer, for example). So what I actually wrote - that looking at prevalence instead of incidence "would seem like a more appropriate comparison" is amply borne out by what you've done.

    However, for some reason you've now switched from daily hospitalisation rates before (which was appropriate to the REACT study) to total number in hospital. I've certainly heard it said that people are now spending less time in hospital. If that's true, the two won't be equivalent.

    It looks to me as though there is a real difference between the ONS and REACT figures, but obviously you would need to compare like with like to be sure about it.
    Maybe, just maybe, the REACT study was wrong? Maybe they incorrectly modelled the population. Their sample size was quite small iirc. Much smaller than the weekly ONS survey. Even their own people were casting doubt on some of the R values when they released REACT-2.

    You have become obsessed with this one study that has been done irregularly but ignored the weekly ONS survey based on PCR testing of what the ONS (the actual experts in the field) say is a demographically representative sample of the UK.

    What you're saying just doesn't make sense anyway, the implication of cases still resulting in the same proportion being hospitalised means that efficacy is zero. We know that isn't true, especially with delta where efficacy against any infection has gone down to ~60% for AZ and Pfizer.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:
    30 quid an hour isn’t piecework.
    It's the story which is nonsense. It is indeed piecework; it then says that this equates to a max 30 an hour, but nobody could actually luck enough to earn that much. Wtf.
  • eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    Sounds wrong, that sort of business should be nowhere near administration in the present circs
    Asda and Sainsburys pay £x a delivery, costs rise 40% and the supermarkets say not our problem, you agreed that we pay £x and we aren’t paying more.
    In which case Asda and Sainsbury's don't get their deliveries.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:
    30 quid an hour isn’t piecework.
    It's the story which is nonsense. It is indeed piecework; it then says that this equates to a max 30 an hour, but nobody could actually luck enough to earn that much. Wtf.
    I'd do it for £30 per cabbage!
  • algarkirk said:

    murali_s said:

    Would Raynor be any better than Starmer?

    Hmmm..

    No.
    I don’t find her particularly likeable - quite adversarial. Who knows - maybe the electorate will prefer that to Boris
    Depends what you mean better.

    Is she less divisive in Labour - Yes

    Does she have more passion - Yes

    Does she have more political nouse - Yes

    Does she have more personality - Yes

    More charisma - Yes

    More conviction - Yes,

    More ability to lead, more likely to develop policies,more vision, more of an alternative to the Tories, more hope for Labour.

    Do i particularly rate her compared to Boris probably not, compared to the current useless nonentity definitely

    Labour polled 3.5 million votes less than the Tories in 2019. They need a couple of million Tory voters to switch. SKS is much more likely to achieve this than Rayner.

    Tory to LD or Tory to Green will do just fine.

    As long as Lab can get close to 2017 levels of enthusiasm from its natural vote
    You do realise they lost in 2017?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,080
    edited September 2021
    The classic " up to £30-an-hour" piece work....that £30/hr, if you have 10 arms and you can move like the Flash and be able to keep that rate up for 50 hrs / week.

    I have done one of these jobs as a student, in reality you are normally more worried about the lower threshold, trying to keep up the minimum rate to a) make ok money and b) not get the heave-ho for going too slow and holding up the whole pick.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    Sounds wrong, that sort of business should be nowhere near administration in the present circs
    Asda and Sainsburys pay £x a delivery, costs rise 40% and the supermarkets say not our problem, you agreed that we pay £x and we aren’t paying more.
    In which case Asda and Sainsbury's don't get their deliveries.
    Contract says they do
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    UK Local R

    Looking forward to Kettering's arrival at the top of the chart in a couple of days.

    "Doing a Scotland" i think it is called.
    I think it's the exit wave finally arriving in places that didn't really have one over the summer.
    I'd love to know the whys about it though. What was the local conditions that stopped mass spreading before the last couple days in Kettering.

    What was the super spreader event that finally triggered it?

    Os there something that we can learn so that events can be planned to avoid mass spreading events.
    Surely it’ll be among the school kids though? Probably takes a while to take off, but will burn through pretty fast.
    Kettering appears to be all age groups up to about mid fifties.
    Looking at the local data you could say school kids and parents. Combo of schools and ‘back to the office’? Ultimately it’s complicated.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419
    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    Sounds wrong, that sort of business should be nowhere near administration in the present circs
    Asda and Sainsburys pay £x a delivery, costs rise 40% and the supermarkets say not our problem, you agreed that we pay £x and we aren’t paying more.
    Sounds perfectly plausible. The boot is on the other foot now for certain suppliers and supermarkets.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    Sounds wrong, that sort of business should be nowhere near administration in the present circs
    Asda and Sainsburys pay £x a delivery, costs rise 40% and the supermarkets say not our problem, you agreed that we pay £x and we aren’t paying more.
    In which case Asda and Sainsbury's don't get their deliveries.
    Contract says they do
    Not if the company goes bankrupt.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:
    30 quid an hour isn’t piecework.
    It's the story which is nonsense. It is indeed piecework; it then says that this equates to a max 30 an hour, but nobody could actually luck enough to earn that much. Wtf.
    Pick not luck. Tho luck works too.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419

    The classic " up to £30-an-hour"....if you have 10 arms and you can move like the Flash and be able to keep that rate up for 50 hrs / week.

    It’s like a recruitment agency advertising a job ‘up,to 50k’, you know they’ll never pay the top salary.
  • eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    Sounds wrong, that sort of business should be nowhere near administration in the present circs
    Asda and Sainsburys pay £x a delivery, costs rise 40% and the supermarkets say not our problem, you agreed that we pay £x and we aren’t paying more.
    In which case Asda and Sainsbury's don't get their deliveries.
    Contract says they do
    Contract isn't worth the paper its printed on if the supplier goes into administration.

    Which is why its sensible to renegotiate if need be before then.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,390

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    Sounds wrong, that sort of business should be nowhere near administration in the present circs
    Asda and Sainsburys pay £x a delivery, costs rise 40% and the supermarkets say not our problem, you agreed that we pay £x and we aren’t paying more.
    In which case Asda and Sainsbury's don't get their deliveries.
    Contract says they do
    Contract isn't worth the paper its printed on if the supplier goes into administration.

    Which is why its sensible to renegotiate if need be before then.
    Start renegotiating contracts and you end up renegotiating a lot of contracts. Better to prepare a backup plan, and wait for the inevitable
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    Sounds wrong, that sort of business should be nowhere near administration in the present circs
    Asda and Sainsburys pay £x a delivery, costs rise 40% and the supermarkets say not our problem, you agreed that we pay £x and we aren’t paying more.
    In which case Asda and Sainsbury's don't get their deliveries.
    Contract says they do
    Contract isn't worth the paper its printed on if the supplier goes into administration.

    Which is why its sensible to renegotiate if need be before then.
    Exactly right. Continuity of supply in times of supply chain constraints has to be more important than trying to force someone to keep supplying at a loss that is only increasing. It’s private capital too so they won’t stand the loss.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,889

    stodge said:


    One thing of which I'm convinced is the solutions of the past aren't the solutions of the future.

    Labour has to do the hard thinking about what 2030s Britain looks like - that's the 2029 Manifesto, new ideas, something quite radical which after nearly two decades of Conservative-led Government may not be wholly unwelcome.

    Trying to imagine the Britain of the 2030s isn't easy - it requires a lot of time and thought and that's the luxury of opposition - the time to formulate new ideas and do that radical thinking which the party of government can't really manage.

    Good new ideas are severely lacking across the political spectrum and have been for a long time.
    Fine - I'd be starting with three broad areas - environmental/sustainability, artificial intelligence and demographics. The first implies or suggests the impacts of climate change will be becoming greater across the planet, the second is the most fundamental - the replacement of large parts of administrative and transactional work by the AI and the impact of that and third, the demographics will continue to mean a declining working age population supporting a growing older population.

    There are many other key points and areas - that's just your starter for three, plenty of conferring.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000
    Breaking:

    EG Group, which has 389 petrol stations, is imposing a £30 limit on fuel because of ‘unprecedented customer demand’

    It says this will give ensure ‘all our customers have a fair chance to refuel

    It asks customers to treat staff with respect during challenging times

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1441483020398043137
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    Sounds wrong, that sort of business should be nowhere near administration in the present circs
    Asda and Sainsburys pay £x a delivery, costs rise 40% and the supermarkets say not our problem, you agreed that we pay £x and we aren’t paying more.
    Sounds perfectly plausible. The boot is on the other foot now for certain suppliers and supermarkets.
    It is
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Andy_JS said:

    "Anders Tegnell: Sweden won the argument on Covid

    The state epidemiologist told Freddie Sayers he was right on the key questions"

    https://unherd.com/thepost/anders-tegnell-sweden-won-the-argument-on-covid/

    What Mandy Rice Davies said.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking:

    EG Group, which has 389 petrol stations, is imposing a £30 limit on fuel because of ‘unprecedented customer demand’

    It says this will give ensure ‘all our customers have a fair chance to refuel

    It asks customers to treat staff with respect during challenging times

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1441483020398043137

    Yeah but BigG has an anecdote repeated at least 3 times involving Asda and a tanker that clearly proves there is no problem
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    So SKS wants to give more power to the PLP and Unions?
    Who don't want it.
    Nice man. Very bright high flyer. Hit the very top of his career ladder.
    Unfortunately, that wasn't politics.
    He's crap at that.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,889
    edited September 2021
    The final Iceland poll but it has a huge sample:

    https://www.electograph.com/2021/09/iceland-maskina-poll-210924.html

    The current Government would win 32 out of 63 in the Althing but a majority would also be possible with Reform.

    Could be quite a nailbiter in downtown Reykjavik tomorrow evening.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Ken Clarke
    @MrKennethClarke
    ·
    6h
    Reports are coming in that the Brexit Bus has run out of fuel.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000
    I WEEKEND: Petrol panic buying leaves No10 reeling #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1441497306755391495/photo/1
  • A private equity-backed haulage firm specialising in chilled food deliveries to Asda and Sainsbury’s has gone bust, adding to concerns about gaps on shelves as Britain heads for a 'winter of discontent'.

    EVCL Chill, a subsidiary of EV Cargo, filed for administration, adding to speculation that the two supermarkets will need to take-over the business to safeguard deliveries.

    The company had a number of major contracts for supermarkets and employed around 1,000 workers in warehousing and HGV driving roles.

    It comes amid worry that Britain will be faced with severe food shortages this winter due to a lack of lorry drivers and an ongoing energy crisis.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10026195/Supermarket-food-distributor-goes-BUST-leaving-1-000-workers-unemployed-amid-HGV-driver-chaos.html

    This is a problem. They were the bespoke chilled transport used by both Asda and Sainsburys to move chilled products between the retailer distribution centres and stores, or in a lot of cases from the producer depot (eg Arla) to the store.

    Whilst Asda and Sainsburys are trying to pick the operation up off the administrator between them, this won't happen immediately. Suppliers being told "make other arrangements" but there isn't an alternative fleet of trucks sat around doing nothing...
  • Burn...



    Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico
    You know. I've got to be honest. I'm starting to have my doubts as to how accurate that 7,000 hospitalisations per day forecast is going to prove.


    Prof. Christina Pagel @chrischirp

    ...infuriating when news stories focus on worst (v unlikely) scenario and then blame spim when it doesn't happen. Often ignoring that things are still quite bad even if they weren't worse



    Andrew Lilico @andrew_lilico

    SPI-M said its R=1.5 and R=1.1 cases encompassed the "likely" envelope - ie covered the central 55-70% most likely scenarios. That means they said there was a 15-22.5% probability the number wld be *higher* than 7k/day.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited September 2021
    Perhaps Labour needs to seriously consider contacting Harold Wilson via Ouija Board. I am sure we would see an improvement!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Scott_xP said:

    I do feel sorry for all those ballerinas who just finished their cyber training and who now need to retrain as HGV drivers.
    https://twitter.com/SiobhanBenita/status/1441292903272357893

    Maybe Dominic Cummings should test his eyesight by driving an HGV?

    After all, he appears to be currently unemployed and after recent events will presumably remain entirely unemployable.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    stodge said:


    The problem for Labour is it hasn't developed the intellectual apparatus to face in all the directions it needs to, and which isn't actually as impossible as it sounds to be. The market for baldly pro-globalisation technocracy, mainly distinguished by higher public spending than the Cameroonian Tories' version, has markedly shrunk since the 1990's, and Mandelson's tunes aren't going to cut it any more. Neither is an approach that sometimes consciously revels in alienating parts of business, without always a constructive end goal, as some Corbynites were apt to. It needs an entirely new, or neo-Wilsonian vocabulary, that can embrace both left and right, or both material and moral aspiration.

    One thing of which I'm convinced is the solutions of the past aren't the solutions of the future.

    Labour has to do the hard thinking about what 2030s Britain looks like - that's the 2029 Manifesto, new ideas, something quite radical which after nearly two decades of Conservative-led Government may not be wholly unwelcome.

    Trying to imagine the Britain of the 2030s isn't easy - it requires a lot of time and thought and that's the luxury of opposition - the time to formulate new ideas and do that radical thinking which the party of government can't really manage.
    Good new ideas are severely lacking across the political spectrum and have been for a long time.
    I actually think the problem is Brexit. The failure to move on from this - shown by all the silly posts here, on Twitter, etc every time almost anything happens, reminds people who voted Leave that many in the Remain camp still hope for a reversal - whatever they may say. It is no use for the moaners to pretend otherwise unless they really are only interested in kicking the 52% in the teeth because of their mistake. Either way it hardens attitudes and we're back to impasse and the lack of new thinking. The link to Starmer I see in the tortured facial expressions - they reveal someone racked with guilt. Does anyone seriously believe he wouldn't have us back in the EU with full FOM given half a whisper of a chance. Beyond that he is utterly clueless in terms of ideas. Everything he believes in he dare not admit. He knows it. We know it. The party knows it.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1441497306755391495/photo/1

    Look at all these idiots


    Do they not know about the Asda in Wales?
This discussion has been closed.