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Keir has a net approval lead over Boris – but where it matters least – politicalbetting.com

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  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The southern half of the Midlands is basically a giant commuting area for London. The idea it's a uniquely insular part of the country is silly.

    The southern part refuses to accept they are in the Midlands!
    A friend of mine used to use the phrase 'a bit Northamptonshire' for something which was neither one thing nor the other; or a bit vague and indecisive.
    As someone who doesn't live in the Midlands, Northamptonshire seems a bit betwixt and between. It's not the South but it isn't really the Midlands either.
  • Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:
    So what are you saying?
    That there are no shortages, or that picture editors are lazy?

    Cos if it’s the second, tell us something we don’t know.
    I'm saying it's real, but massively overblown.

    In particular it is the latest straw that FBPE types are clutching at.
    There were absolutely no shortages whatsoever in Aldi earlier. Stock photos of empty shelves as "news" is just silly.

    But lo and behold if someone claims they can't get bottled water in Waitrose on Twitter.
    I haven't seen much in the way of shortages. What I do notice though is how quickly produce is going off. The farm to fork time seems to have stretched rather a lot, giving little time for domestic storage.
    Like the shortages that are happening, it's not the end of the world.

    But it is an indication that something in the system is bumping up against its tolerance limits. Question is, does one say "it's not broken, carry on lieutenant" or "it's beginning to break, do something about it"?
  • Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The southern half of the Midlands is basically a giant commuting area for London. The idea it's a uniquely insular part of the country is silly.

    The southern part refuses to accept they are in the Midlands!
    A friend of mine used to use the phrase 'a bit Northamptonshire' for something which was neither one thing nor the other; or a bit vague and indecisive.
    Exactly.

    For many years I was tortured by the question, “where do the Midlands actually begin?”

    Eventually I went with watersheds, which puts Gloucs in the Midlands, Oxon and Bucks in the Thames Valley, and Beds, Cambs and Northants in “East Anglia and some Flat Bits”.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Do they have a surplus of nurses in Kenya? You'd think they would need 20,000 nurses to stay in the country, but I don't know.

    https://allafrica.com/stories/202109020463.html

    "Kenya will send 20,000 nurses to the United Kingdom as it seeks to improve the welfare of its migrant workers abroad. Labour and Social Protection Cabinet Secretary Simon Chelugui said the government has embarked on exporting highly skilled healthcare workers and professionals abroad.

    On July 29, Kenya and the UK signed a pact that is expected to benefit unemployed medics. Mr Chelugui disclosed that the two governments had agreed to send 20,000 nurses to the UK to address a shortage of 62,000 in that country. The CS said the UK government has also committed to building the capacity of Kenya's medical training colleges and universities to train more nurses. Some 894 Kenyan nurses work in Britain's public healthcare system, the National Health Service."

    It's the Philippines I worry about.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    BigRich said:

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Personally, I think we should scale down the mass testing of asymmetric kids, or maybe stop it all together. at this stage what is it achieving? kids are going to go on catching it, until, they have all (or nearly all) had it and we reach 'heard immunity' in kids. very few will get serially ill, but the mass testing and isolation only drags that out over a longer time, it does not stop it or significantly reduce the total number.

    Kids have had there education messed up enough over the last 19 months, taking an entirely aysumetomat kid out of school for yet another 2 weeks is not helping that. and again why is it better to drag this out for longer than needed.

    Yes, some times an adult, possibly an elderly or venerable adult will catch it form a kid, but that does not change by dragging it out over a longer pried, and given that we know the effectives of the vaccine wares off a bit over time, shorly it would be better to have that now, rather than in a few months time when the vaccines will have warn off even more.

    Also, I don't think that the testing is that expensive, but its not free and we have spend so much over the last 19 months, any saving now would be much apricated, as we look at tax rises, and speeding cuts.
    In my daughter's class where half now have Covid it was very much a running joke to them as to who would get it..Quite a few wanted to get it so they wouldn't have to go into school.

    Clearly they have all already been exposed to it in their class. The reasons for keeping them isolated would be more to stop them spreading it in different situations (e.g. public transport) than to stop it spreading amongst the school. At some point of course in the next year that decision to stop the requirement for isolation will be made. It is not quite yet though in my view.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The southern half of the Midlands is basically a giant commuting area for London. The idea it's a uniquely insular part of the country is silly.

    The southern part refuses to accept they are in the Midlands!
    A friend of mine used to use the phrase 'a bit Northamptonshire' for something which was neither one thing nor the other; or a bit vague and indecisive.
    Exactly.

    For many years I was tortured by the question, “where do the Midlands actually begin?”

    Eventually I went with watersheds, which puts Gloucs in the Midlands, Oxon and Bucks in the Thames Valley, and Beds, Cambs and Northants in “East Anglia and some Flat Bits”.
    Northamptonshire in East Anglia? That's a new one.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    edited September 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    Do they have a surplus of nurses in Kenya? You'd think they would need 20,000 nurses to stay in the country, but I don't know.

    https://allafrica.com/stories/202109020463.html

    "Kenya will send 20,000 nurses to the United Kingdom as it seeks to improve the welfare of its migrant workers abroad. Labour and Social Protection Cabinet Secretary Simon Chelugui said the government has embarked on exporting highly skilled healthcare workers and professionals abroad.

    On July 29, Kenya and the UK signed a pact that is expected to benefit unemployed medics. Mr Chelugui disclosed that the two governments had agreed to send 20,000 nurses to the UK to address a shortage of 62,000 in that country. The CS said the UK government has also committed to building the capacity of Kenya's medical training colleges and universities to train more nurses. Some 894 Kenyan nurses work in Britain's public healthcare system, the National Health Service."

    There were 58 000 registered Nurses in Kenya in 2019, so this would be a third of their workforce. Kenya has a population of nearly 53 million people.

    It seems though that Kenya has expanded its Nurse training in recent years, perhaps with the export market in mind. Certainly the Phillipines has been doing this for years.
  • Macron: Thank you for reaffirming the importance of our Strategic Partnership. India and France are strongly committed to making the Indo-Pacific an area of cooperation and shared values. We will continue to build on this.
    https://twitter.com/emmanuelmacron/status/1440346174234394633
  • Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The southern half of the Midlands is basically a giant commuting area for London. The idea it's a uniquely insular part of the country is silly.

    The southern part refuses to accept they are in the Midlands!
    A friend of mine used to use the phrase 'a bit Northamptonshire' for something which was neither one thing nor the other; or a bit vague and indecisive.
    Exactly.

    For many years I was tortured by the question, “where do the Midlands actually begin?”

    Eventually I went with watersheds, which puts Gloucs in the Midlands, Oxon and Bucks in the Thames Valley, and Beds, Cambs and Northants in “East Anglia and some Flat Bits”.
    Sounds a lot like the old ITV map.

    Which probably makes sense, since radio waves will largely be stopped by the hills as well. If we have to have regions, we can do a lot worse.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Foxy said:

    BigRich said:

    Cases in England up by about 25% today compared to same day last week, But, looking at the age breakdown:

    5-9 rising (fast and from a reasonably high start)
    10-14 rising (fast and form a high start)

    0-4 falling (but very slowly)

    All other age brackets falling.

    If this continues, which I think it might in the short to medium term, we should still have falling hospitalisation and death.

    Eventually enough kids will have antibodies after having caught it, but we don't know when that will be or how many still need to catch it. I do remember a week or so ago, somebody on hear saying that in the 10-14 age group that 50% had antibody's back in may and 70% at the start of September, which do seem credible. I cant fined verification of these numbers anywhere so if you know where they came form I would love a link?

    Generally kids don't get it too badly, but my concern would be that this was very much how last autumn's wave started. Initially the young, then their parents and grandparents. Obviously vaccination will alter the pattern somewhat, but there are 5 million unvaccinated adults and a considerable number of breakthrough cases in the vaccinated.

    How will it work out? Its all a guessing game at present but my hunch is that we will bump along at the sort of rates of cases, admissions and deaths that we have seen for the last 2 months for most of the rest of the year, and perhaps into next.

    It will be a major drag on hospital activity, both in terms of waiting lists and emergency depts like Mr @Cyclefree last week.

    I disagree, or at least that's not how I see it, looking at the number:

    Cases last September in adults where rising thought the month, and where much higher than they where in kids. both of which is the opposite of now.

    yes some times kids when infected will infect others, their parents and then sometimes grandparents, but with about a month now of falling adults cases and rising kids cases that's obviously rare, presumably because of a combination of vaccination and infection induced antibody's. The NHS faces a big challenge this winter, why drag this out when we could just get it over with before charismas.
  • AlistairM said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The southern half of the Midlands is basically a giant commuting area for London. The idea it's a uniquely insular part of the country is silly.

    The southern part refuses to accept they are in the Midlands!
    A friend of mine used to use the phrase 'a bit Northamptonshire' for something which was neither one thing nor the other; or a bit vague and indecisive.
    Exactly.

    For many years I was tortured by the question, “where do the Midlands actually begin?”

    Eventually I went with watersheds, which puts Gloucs in the Midlands, Oxon and Bucks in the Thames Valley, and Beds, Cambs and Northants in “East Anglia and some Flat Bits”.
    Northamptonshire in East Anglia? That's a new one.
    Well strictly, East Anglia is Norfolk and Suffolk.
    Northants is part of a long Anglian salient with Beds and Cambs.

    Explains why Peterborough and Cambridge are so connected.
  • dixiedean said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:
    So what are you saying?
    That there are no shortages, or that picture editors are lazy?

    Cos if it’s the second, tell us something we don’t know.
    I'm saying it's real, but massively overblown.

    In particular it is the latest straw that FBPE types are clutching at.
    There were absolutely no shortages whatsoever in Aldi earlier. Stock photos of empty shelves as "news" is just silly.

    But lo and behold if someone claims they can't get bottled water in Waitrose on Twitter.
    So is your position that there are no shortages?
    If so, how do you explain the "We apologise for the shortages" posters in the windows of shops?
    Some companies stock management procedures seem to be quasi-effective.
  • Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:
    So what are you saying?
    That there are no shortages, or that picture editors are lazy?

    Cos if it’s the second, tell us something we don’t know.
    I'm saying it's real, but massively overblown.

    In particular it is the latest straw that FBPE types are clutching at.
    There were absolutely no shortages whatsoever in Aldi earlier. Stock photos of empty shelves as "news" is just silly.

    But lo and behold if someone claims they can't get bottled water in Waitrose on Twitter.
    I haven't seen much in the way of shortages. What I do notice though is how quickly produce is going off. The farm to fork time seems to have stretched rather a lot, giving little time for domestic storage.
    Like the shortages that are happening, it's not the end of the world.

    But it is an indication that something in the system is bumping up against its tolerance limits. Question is, does one say "it's not broken, carry on lieutenant" or "it's beginning to break, do something about it"?
    Surely that depends upon if it's your job to do something about it or not?

    Companies adjusting their supply chains is their own responsibility.
  • eek said:

    I'm sure this has been mentioned but it's unfortunate we cant just extract the CO2 from the atmosphere as we have put so much extra into it and heated the planet as a result.
    Don't get me started on Direct Air Capture...

    Plant trees and they'll do it for us. They are even self-replicating.
    Isn't the peak capture period of CO2 by trees 40+ years after they've been planted?
    And then a while later they die, decompose and the carbon they absorbed is released back to the atmosphere.
    A healthy forest is a net absorber of CO2.

    Also, timber used for construction keeps the carbon locked up for a long, long time.
    That's the thing which has been puzzling me. To remove the maximum amount of CO2 absorbed from the atmosphere by trees, I'd have thought you need to chop down mature trees and ensure that the wood doesn't get burnt or decay, in order to lock in the CO2 whilst you grow new trees to absorb the next lot of CO2. Some of it can be used for construction, but also if a way could be found to compress or liquefy the dead wood, it could perhaps be placed in old coal mines and old oil fields, essentially reversing some of the fossil-fuel burning. Dunno whether this is at all practical, though.

    The big advantage of trees for CO2 absorption is that they can cover gigantic areas.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    Macron: Thank you for reaffirming the importance of our Strategic Partnership. India and France are strongly committed to making the Indo-Pacific an area of cooperation and shared values. We will continue to build on this.
    https://twitter.com/emmanuelmacron/status/1440346174234394633

    What a stab in the back.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2021
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Optical Illusion Of Net Ratings

    "We asked a hundred people - "Who do you trust to buy a round for their friends in the pub, Boris Johnson or Sir Keir Starmer?" 42 said Boris, 24 Sir Keir, & the rest didn't know. They were asked who they thought would best organise a fun night out;. 42 said Boris, & 20 Sir Keir. In June 2020, another survey asked if the respondents thought either of the two "had personality" - Boris won by 34 points, 64 to 30. When asked again in September Boris increased his lead to 42, (67-25). The most recent Opinium poll asked whether the respondents found Boris or Sir Keir likeable - given that people would rather go for a night out with Boris, the choice they think has bags more personality of the two, it's not much of a surprise that he "got more likes" 43-38. So it would seem uncontroversial to say that Boris is the more likeable of the two men who want to be PM after the next GE. Unless...

    Unless, instead of basing the results on who people actually like, you decided to ask who they disliked as well, and subtracted one from the other. Using this method, Sir Keir suddenly becomes more likeable than the more liked Boris, braver than the man more people consider brave of the two, and a stronger leader than the leader he trails in terms of people's judgement of who is strong. (Opinium March 2020)"

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-optical-illusion-of-net-ratings.html

    Or the optical illusion of gross ratings. Aren't both valid and it's a question of which is the better steer for votes come elections?

    I don’t think so, obviously

    Miliband led Cameron on net satisfaction (and Lab led on VI) for quite some time, but very rarely on Gross Positives, and never on personality

    Sir Keir only leads on net satisfaction with one pollster anyway, and not with any in Gross Positives
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Pulpstar said:

    BigRich said:

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Personally, I think we should scale down the mass testing of asymmetric kids, or maybe stop it all together. at this stage what is it achieving? kids are going to go on catching it, until, they have all (or nearly all) had it and we reach 'heard immunity' in kids. very few will get serially ill, but the mass testing and isolation only drags that out over a longer time, it does not stop it or significantly reduce the total number.

    Kids have had there education messed up enough over the last 19 months, taking an entirely aysumetomat kid out of school for yet another 2 weeks is not helping that. and again why is it better to drag this out for longer than needed.

    Yes, some times an adult, possibly an elderly or venerable adult will catch it form a kid, but that does not change by dragging it out over a longer pried, and given that we know the effectives of the vaccine wares off a bit over time, shorly it would be better to have that now, rather than in a few months time when the vaccines will have warn off even more.

    Also, I don't think that the testing is that expensive, but its not free and we have spend so much over the last 19 months, any saving now would be much apricated, as we look at tax rises, and speeding cuts.
    I think testing is a good idea to see where the virus is spreading, and pick up a true count of prevalence. I think you can make an argument to not take action on asymptomatic +ve tests in school children to be perfectly honest.
    I understand that idea, and like where you age going, but, I don't think you would get popular opinion to back the idea of letting kids you know have the virus stay in school, so ones you've tested you are committed to isolate.

    we all like the idea of lots of date to track where cases are and how there changing, but few other countries are doing nearly the level of testing we are in schools, and they manage, we could do smaller scale random testing to monitor prevelalance?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    AlistairM said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The southern half of the Midlands is basically a giant commuting area for London. The idea it's a uniquely insular part of the country is silly.

    The southern part refuses to accept they are in the Midlands!
    A friend of mine used to use the phrase 'a bit Northamptonshire' for something which was neither one thing nor the other; or a bit vague and indecisive.
    Exactly.

    For many years I was tortured by the question, “where do the Midlands actually begin?”

    Eventually I went with watersheds, which puts Gloucs in the Midlands, Oxon and Bucks in the Thames Valley, and Beds, Cambs and Northants in “East Anglia and some Flat Bits”.
    Northamptonshire in East Anglia? That's a new one.
    Locals in Market Harborough have a subtle East Anglian accent, and that is West of Northamptonshire.

    Northants is South of the Watford Gap services, which is where the Midlands begin. The North starts at Sandbach Services.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789

    Macron: Thank you for reaffirming the importance of our Strategic Partnership. India and France are strongly committed to making the Indo-Pacific an area of cooperation and shared values. We will continue to build on this.
    https://twitter.com/emmanuelmacron/status/1440346174234394633

    Lol. I do enjoy watching Macron reap what he has sowed. Hunt's take on this in the Telegraph is a must read.
  • Foxy said:

    AlistairM said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The southern half of the Midlands is basically a giant commuting area for London. The idea it's a uniquely insular part of the country is silly.

    The southern part refuses to accept they are in the Midlands!
    A friend of mine used to use the phrase 'a bit Northamptonshire' for something which was neither one thing nor the other; or a bit vague and indecisive.
    Exactly.

    For many years I was tortured by the question, “where do the Midlands actually begin?”

    Eventually I went with watersheds, which puts Gloucs in the Midlands, Oxon and Bucks in the Thames Valley, and Beds, Cambs and Northants in “East Anglia and some Flat Bits”.
    Northamptonshire in East Anglia? That's a new one.
    Locals in Market Harborough have a subtle East Anglian accent, and that is West of Northamptonshire.

    Northants is South of the Watford Gap services, which is where the Midlands begin. The North starts at Sandbach Services.
    Bedford where I live is in the Eastern region.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    Good. I said long before the Brexit vote we didn't want a trade deal with the US. Why would we when we already have a big trade surplus with them and any deal is bound to include arbitration terms that are weighted heavily in their favour?
    Some trade deals sound good but only work for those who don't understand the compromises a trade deal actually require.
    Are you, like Tyndall, from the Midlands by any chance?

    Mercantilism seems endemic there.
    I was born and raised in the Midlands
    Which bit ?

    And how did you become a Newcastle fan :D ?!
    Solihull - but I’ve lived on Tyneside for 11 years.

    My Dad is from Northumberland so didn’t give me a choice, unfortunately.
    Could be way worse - he might have come from Sunderland.
    I am led to believe that there is a weird enclave of Sunderland support around Ashington, Northumberland, but I am unclear as to why.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    Good. I said long before the Brexit vote we didn't want a trade deal with the US. Why would we when we already have a big trade surplus with them and any deal is bound to include arbitration terms that are weighted heavily in their favour?
    Some trade deals sound good but only work for those who don't understand the compromises a trade deal actually require.
    Are you, like Tyndall, from the Midlands by any chance?

    Mercantilism seems endemic there.
    I was born and raised in the Midlands
    Which bit ?

    And how did you become a Newcastle fan :D ?!
    Solihull - but I’ve lived on Tyneside for 11 years.

    My Dad is from Northumberland so didn’t give me a choice, unfortunately.
    When I worked in Solihull a Geordie colleague insisted on moving back north when his wife became pregnant. He couldn't bear the idea that their child would develop a Brummie accent!
    A considerably less sexy accent than yow?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    BigRich said:

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Personally, I think we should scale down the mass testing of asymmetric kids, or maybe stop it all together. at this stage what is it achieving? kids are going to go on catching it, until, they have all (or nearly all) had it and we reach 'heard immunity' in kids. very few will get serially ill, but the mass testing and isolation only drags that out over a longer time, it does not stop it or significantly reduce the total number.

    Kids have had there education messed up enough over the last 19 months, taking an entirely aysumetomat kid out of school for yet another 2 weeks is not helping that. and again why is it better to drag this out for longer than needed.

    Yes, some times an adult, possibly an elderly or venerable adult will catch it form a kid, but that does not change by dragging it out over a longer pried, and given that we know the effectives of the vaccine wares off a bit over time, shorly it would be better to have that now, rather than in a few months time when the vaccines will have warn off even more.

    Also, I don't think that the testing is that expensive, but its not free and we have spend so much over the last 19 months, any saving now would be much apricated, as we look at tax rises, and speeding cuts.
    Fair points. There are certainly arguments for ending the testing of children, for the reasons you suggest. However, such is the ingrained culture of covidianism, the government would probably be accused of a coverup were it to advance such a policy.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    Good. I said long before the Brexit vote we didn't want a trade deal with the US. Why would we when we already have a big trade surplus with them and any deal is bound to include arbitration terms that are weighted heavily in their favour?
    Some trade deals sound good but only work for those who don't understand the compromises a trade deal actually require.
    Are you, like Tyndall, from the Midlands by any chance?

    Mercantilism seems endemic there.
    I was born and raised in the Midlands
    Which bit ?

    And how did you become a Newcastle fan :D ?!
    Solihull - but I’ve lived on Tyneside for 11 years.

    My Dad is from Northumberland so didn’t give me a choice, unfortunately.
    When I worked in Solihull a Geordie colleague insisted on moving back north when his wife became pregnant. He couldn't bear the idea that their child would develop a Brummie accent!
    I spent 18 months at TRW in Solihull on contract years ago managing a project for them. Solihull is just full of posh Brummies that sound like Barry from Aud Wiedersehn Pet.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871
    Final word on Canada:

    Perhaps a salutary lesson that anticipating change doesn't mean the change actually happening.

    The Conservatives again outpolled the Liberals and achieved a tiny net swing (0.3%). Both down very slightly - NDP up but only fractionally. The overall movements much more muted than all the polls were suggesting.

    Ontario stayed solid for the Liberals - probably again about half the Lib caucus. The Conservatives piled up big majorities in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba but they did better in Atlantic Canada though arguably gave it away in British Columbia.

    O'Toole could and perhaps should have done a lot better - he had Trudeau on the ropes at the end of the second week but couldn't land the knockout blow. Is he the right man to take the Conservatives back to power?

    Trudeau survives and he may be wary of chancing his arm (however good the polls) before he has to which is October 2025. It could have been a lot worse and while there will be those who argue it was all a waste of time and money (which would be unfair), that's how it is sometimes with elections.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited September 2021
    Luckily for the LibDems, no-one will notice, but Ed Davey sounds as deluded as his predecessor, whose name everyone has forgotten:

    "I’m not the same as Boris Johnson: I never will be, I never have been, and I’m going to work my butt off until he’s out of No 10.”

    I mean, who on earth ever accused Ed Davey of being the same as Boris Johnson?

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1440348883238875145
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited September 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    Do they have a surplus of nurses in Kenya? You'd think they would need 20,000 nurses to stay in the country, but I don't know.

    https://allafrica.com/stories/202109020463.html

    "Kenya will send 20,000 nurses to the United Kingdom as it seeks to improve the welfare of its migrant workers abroad. Labour and Social Protection Cabinet Secretary Simon Chelugui said the government has embarked on exporting highly skilled healthcare workers and professionals abroad.

    On July 29, Kenya and the UK signed a pact that is expected to benefit unemployed medics. Mr Chelugui disclosed that the two governments had agreed to send 20,000 nurses to the UK to address a shortage of 62,000 in that country. The CS said the UK government has also committed to building the capacity of Kenya's medical training colleges and universities to train more nurses. Some 894 Kenyan nurses work in Britain's public healthcare system, the National Health Service."

    Hmmm. On 28 July UK Govt announced 817k vaccines being donated to Kenya.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-begins-donating-millions-of-covid-19-vaccines-overseas

    If this helps develop kenya's economy I have no objection to this.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    TOPPING said:

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Friend's son said it was like "mild hayfever". Another friend has a daugther with eight apparently off. Nephew who had it (at uni now) couldn't distinguish it from a hangover.

    Not seeing a huge increase in under 16s in hospital and very much hope I won't.
    About 300-350 admissions per week nationwide in the under-18s; can't find under-16s split out.
    The 6-17 age group seem the least likely to be hospitalised per year of age. That particular component are about 175-200 per week (bearing in mind that there are quite a few more than the age 0-5s)

    I understand they do tend to spend less time in hospital if they are hospitalised (5-6 days versus 8-10 days for older groups)
  • Luckily for the LibDems, no-one will notice, but Ed Davey sounds as deluded as his predecessor, whose name everyone has forgotten:

    "I’m not the same as Boris Johnson: I never will be, I never have been, and I’m going to work my butt off until he’s out of No 10.”

    I mean, who on earth ever accused Ed Davey of being the same as Boris Johnson?

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1440348883238875145

    The sort of left wing activist for whom anyone right of Pol Pot should “fuck off and join the Tories”?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2021
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Optical Illusion Of Net Ratings

    "We asked a hundred people - "Who do you trust to buy a round for their friends in the pub, Boris Johnson or Sir Keir Starmer?" 42 said Boris, 24 Sir Keir, & the rest didn't know. They were asked who they thought would best organise a fun night out;. 42 said Boris, & 20 Sir Keir. In June 2020, another survey asked if the respondents thought either of the two "had personality" - Boris won by 34 points, 64 to 30. When asked again in September Boris increased his lead to 42, (67-25). The most recent Opinium poll asked whether the respondents found Boris or Sir Keir likeable - given that people would rather go for a night out with Boris, the choice they think has bags more personality of the two, it's not much of a surprise that he "got more likes" 43-38. So it would seem uncontroversial to say that Boris is the more likeable of the two men who want to be PM after the next GE. Unless...

    Unless, instead of basing the results on who people actually like, you decided to ask who they disliked as well, and subtracted one from the other. Using this method, Sir Keir suddenly becomes more likeable than the more liked Boris, braver than the man more people consider brave of the two, and a stronger leader than the leader he trails in terms of people's judgement of who is strong. (Opinium March 2020)"

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-optical-illusion-of-net-ratings.html

    Or the optical illusion of gross ratings. Aren't both valid and it's a question of which is the better steer for votes come elections?

    I don’t think so, obviously

    Miliband led Cameron on net satisfaction (and Lab led on VI) for quite some time, but very rarely on Gross Positives, and never on personality

    Sir Keir only leads on net satisfaction with one pollster anyway, and not with any in Gross Positives
    Grey is the Cammo lead over Ed in GP, Red the Net Satisfaction

    Blue is the Tory lead on VI.. ooer

    Yellow is the Cammo lead on personality


  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2021
    Boris & Sir Keir's GP and Net Ratings

    If you are a fan of Boris you want Dark Blue at the top and Pink at the bottom


  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789

    TOPPING said:

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Friend's son said it was like "mild hayfever". Another friend has a daugther with eight apparently off. Nephew who had it (at uni now) couldn't distinguish it from a hangover.

    Not seeing a huge increase in under 16s in hospital and very much hope I won't.
    About 300-350 admissions per week nationwide in the under-18s; can't find under-16s split out.
    The 6-17 age group seem the least likely to be hospitalised per year of age. That particular component are about 175-200 per week (bearing in mind that there are quite a few more than the age 0-5s)

    I understand they do tend to spend less time in hospital if they are hospitalised (5-6 days versus 8-10 days for older groups)
    Wouldn't there be a lot of incidental admission in younger age groups? It would be interesting to know what the proportion are for with/of COVID with under 18s. The last audit showed 20% of patients in hospital were with COVID so people who came in for something else and then tested positive I could imagine that proportion being very high in under 18s.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    Luckily for the LibDems, no-one will notice, but Ed Davey sounds as deluded as his predecessor, whose name everyone has forgotten:

    "I’m not the same as Boris Johnson: I never will be, I never have been, and I’m going to work my butt off until he’s out of No 10.”

    I mean, who on earth ever accused Ed Davey of being the same as Boris Johnson?

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1440348883238875145

    Well, technically anyone who has ever complained about all politicians being the same.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    AlistairM said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The southern half of the Midlands is basically a giant commuting area for London. The idea it's a uniquely insular part of the country is silly.

    The southern part refuses to accept they are in the Midlands!
    A friend of mine used to use the phrase 'a bit Northamptonshire' for something which was neither one thing nor the other; or a bit vague and indecisive.
    Exactly.

    For many years I was tortured by the question, “where do the Midlands actually begin?”

    Eventually I went with watersheds, which puts Gloucs in the Midlands, Oxon and Bucks in the Thames Valley, and Beds, Cambs and Northants in “East Anglia and some Flat Bits”.
    Northamptonshire in East Anglia? That's a new one.
    Well strictly, East Anglia is Norfolk and Suffolk.
    Northants is part of a long Anglian salient with Beds and Cambs.

    Explains why Peterborough and Cambridge are so connected.
    Yes, in terms if history, the Angles didn't get south of the Stour. But from looking at a map, Cambs and Essex are geographically East Anglia.

    BTW, I think much of the regions problem stems from the fact that nobody proposed a Thames & Chilterns region, except for the old English Tourist Board.

    If you had that, you could chuck in the likes of Oxon, Berks, Beds and Bucks so they wouldn't have to rough it in the South East.

    Gloucestershire fits better with the West Country than the West Midlands.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    stodge said:

    Final word on Canada:

    Perhaps a salutary lesson that anticipating change doesn't mean the change actually happening.

    The Conservatives again outpolled the Liberals and achieved a tiny net swing (0.3%). Both down very slightly - NDP up but only fractionally. The overall movements much more muted than all the polls were suggesting.

    Ontario stayed solid for the Liberals - probably again about half the Lib caucus. The Conservatives piled up big majorities in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba but they did better in Atlantic Canada though arguably gave it away in British Columbia.

    O'Toole could and perhaps should have done a lot better - he had Trudeau on the ropes at the end of the second week but couldn't land the knockout blow. Is he the right man to take the Conservatives back to power?

    Trudeau survives and he may be wary of chancing his arm (however good the polls) before he has to which is October 2025. It could have been a lot worse and while there will be those who argue it was all a waste of time and money (which would be unfair), that's how it is sometimes with elections.

    Of course Trudeau has got 2 more years net. And loads more wriggle room to deal with the costs of the pandemic.
    By 2025 he'll be 53 and have been PM for 10 years. Plenty of time to make shed loads of money. Or go again.
    Thing is. Justin gets more attractive as PM the more an alternative becomes possible.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627

    Andy_JS said:

    Do they have a surplus of nurses in Kenya? You'd think they would need 20,000 nurses to stay in the country, but I don't know.

    https://allafrica.com/stories/202109020463.html

    "Kenya will send 20,000 nurses to the United Kingdom as it seeks to improve the welfare of its migrant workers abroad. Labour and Social Protection Cabinet Secretary Simon Chelugui said the government has embarked on exporting highly skilled healthcare workers and professionals abroad.

    On July 29, Kenya and the UK signed a pact that is expected to benefit unemployed medics. Mr Chelugui disclosed that the two governments had agreed to send 20,000 nurses to the UK to address a shortage of 62,000 in that country. The CS said the UK government has also committed to building the capacity of Kenya's medical training colleges and universities to train more nurses. Some 894 Kenyan nurses work in Britain's public healthcare system, the National Health Service."

    It's the Philippines I worry about.
    I haven't seen a recent figure, but in the naughties it was estimated that 85% of Filipino nurses were working outside the Philippines.

    They are a lovely bunch to work with. Professional and industrious. One day I will get to the Philippines to have a look. Their food contains some weird flavour combinations judging by the nurses lunches.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213

    TOPPING said:

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Friend's son said it was like "mild hayfever". Another friend has a daugther with eight apparently off. Nephew who had it (at uni now) couldn't distinguish it from a hangover.

    Not seeing a huge increase in under 16s in hospital and very much hope I won't.
    About 300-350 admissions per week nationwide in the under-18s; can't find under-16s split out.
    The 6-17 age group seem the least likely to be hospitalised per year of age. That particular component are about 175-200 per week (bearing in mind that there are quite a few more than the age 0-5s)

    I understand they do tend to spend less time in hospital if they are hospitalised (5-6 days versus 8-10 days for older groups)
    Cases -

    15/09/2021
    00 04 593.00
    05 09 2045.29
    10 14 3404.43
    15 19 2138.71
    20 24 1125.71
    25 29 1303.86
    30 34 1417.14
    35 39 1426.57
    40 44 1577.86
    45 49 1373.43
    50 54 1321.71
    55 59 1052.57
    60 64 802.00
    65 69 575.57
    70 74 501.00
    75 79 340.29
    80 84 209.00
    85 89 122.14
    90+ 73.43
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Compleatly off topic, but this seems a very big story (to me) that has not been mentioned on here.

    The problems and possible collapse of the Chines house builder 'EverGrand'

    This is a big company 200,000 direct employees 4,000,000 subcontractors, and at least £120 Billion in borrowing.

    They make money as you might expect, by borring money, getting land to build on and putting up lots of houses, then selling them, but have found that they don't have enough money, so have tried to sell some of there houses with big discounts but cant find buyers quick enough and now cant pay their workers. about 1.5 million people have allegedly given evergrand deposits for houses that may now never be completed. they do have a lot of unsold houses that they have used for collateral, but it seems that nobody wanted theses houses possibly because, they are in the wrong place or are rubbish.

    There are limited ways to invest savings in china, so investing in property is how a lot of people keep there wealth, and house prises to average earnings are very high.

    If the company colapers, and house prises collapse at the same time, which seems possible, then that's a big big shock to the chines economy. there are already some demonstrations are workers what there pay and others want there deposits back. how will this end?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited September 2021

    eek said:

    I'm sure this has been mentioned but it's unfortunate we cant just extract the CO2 from the atmosphere as we have put so much extra into it and heated the planet as a result.
    Don't get me started on Direct Air Capture...

    Plant trees and they'll do it for us. They are even self-replicating.
    Isn't the peak capture period of CO2 by trees 40+ years after they've been planted?
    And then a while later they die, decompose and the carbon they absorbed is released back to the atmosphere.
    A healthy forest is a net absorber of CO2.

    Also, timber used for construction keeps the carbon locked up for a long, long time.
    That's the thing which has been puzzling me. To remove the maximum amount of CO2 absorbed from the atmosphere by trees, I'd have thought you need to chop down mature trees and ensure that the wood doesn't get burnt or decay, in order to lock in the CO2 whilst you grow new trees to absorb the next lot of CO2. Some of it can be used for construction, but also if a way could be found to compress or liquefy the dead wood, it could perhaps be placed in old coal mines and old oil fields, essentially reversing some of the fossil-fuel burning. Dunno whether this is at all practical, though.

    The big advantage of trees for CO2 absorption is that they can cover gigantic areas.
    A friend calculated that his carbon positive house takes as much C02 out of circulation as 37 trees, which is fixed as less electricity being used.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,311

    Luckily for the LibDems, no-one will notice, but Ed Davey sounds as deluded as his predecessor, whose name everyone has forgotten:

    "I’m not the same as Boris Johnson: I never will be, I never have been, and I’m going to work my butt off until he’s out of No 10.”

    I mean, who on earth ever accused Ed Davey of being the same as Boris Johnson?

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1440348883238875145

    Hard to believe they could have found someone as stupid and deluded as their last disaster but they have.
    They also have an absolute corker in Scotland as well.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    edited September 2021
    BigRich said:

    Compleatly off topic, but this seems a very big story (to me) that has not been mentioned on here.

    The problems and possible collapse of the Chines house builder 'EverGrand'

    This is a big company 200,000 direct employees 4,000,000 subcontractors, and at least £120 Billion in borrowing.

    They make money as you might expect, by borring money, getting land to build on and putting up lots of houses, then selling them, but have found that they don't have enough money, so have tried to sell some of there houses with big discounts but cant find buyers quick enough and now cant pay their workers. about 1.5 million people have allegedly given evergrand deposits for houses that may now never be completed. they do have a lot of unsold houses that they have used for collateral, but it seems that nobody wanted theses houses possibly because, they are in the wrong place or are rubbish.

    There are limited ways to invest savings in china, so investing in property is how a lot of people keep there wealth, and house prises to average earnings are very high.

    If the company colapers, and house prises collapse at the same time, which seems possible, then that's a big big shock to the chines economy. there are already some demonstrations are workers what there pay and others want there deposits back. how will this end?

    I posted this earlier today
    https://twitter.com/Barton_options/status/1440160147578384403

    Which shows the damage residential property investment is doing to the chinese economy.

    I suspect the question is how does the Chinese allow Evergrande to die without taking out all the subcontractors as well.

    Also someone pointed out elsewhere that yesterday and today were public holidays in China so if things are going to occur there is a strong possibility it will be tonight.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    GIN1138 said:

    dixiedean said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Has Justin Trudeau resigned yet? :D

    I'd give it approximately 4 years at least.
    He called a vanity election in the middle of a pandemic, explicitly to secure a majority and blew it!

    He'll be gone in 18 months. ;)
    End of a pandemic, surely.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Foxy said:

    AlistairM said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The southern half of the Midlands is basically a giant commuting area for London. The idea it's a uniquely insular part of the country is silly.

    The southern part refuses to accept they are in the Midlands!
    A friend of mine used to use the phrase 'a bit Northamptonshire' for something which was neither one thing nor the other; or a bit vague and indecisive.
    Exactly.

    For many years I was tortured by the question, “where do the Midlands actually begin?”

    Eventually I went with watersheds, which puts Gloucs in the Midlands, Oxon and Bucks in the Thames Valley, and Beds, Cambs and Northants in “East Anglia and some Flat Bits”.
    Northamptonshire in East Anglia? That's a new one.
    Locals in Market Harborough have a subtle East Anglian accent, and that is West of Northamptonshire.

    Northants is South of the Watford Gap services, which is where the Midlands begin. The North starts at Sandbach Services.
    Nope. The Watford Gap is IN Northants.

    I think you are conflating Northamptonshire with the town (city?) of Northampton, which is indeed a few miles south of the Watford Gap.

    P.S. The motorway services are irrelevant as the north-south shorthand about the Watford Gap predates their opening.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061

    eek said:

    I'm sure this has been mentioned but it's unfortunate we cant just extract the CO2 from the atmosphere as we have put so much extra into it and heated the planet as a result.
    Don't get me started on Direct Air Capture...

    Plant trees and they'll do it for us. They are even self-replicating.
    Isn't the peak capture period of CO2 by trees 40+ years after they've been planted?
    And then a while later they die, decompose and the carbon they absorbed is released back to the atmosphere.
    A healthy forest is a net absorber of CO2.

    Also, timber used for construction keeps the carbon locked up for a long, long time.
    That's the thing which has been puzzling me. To remove the maximum amount of CO2 absorbed from the atmosphere by trees, I'd have thought you need to chop down mature trees and ensure that the wood doesn't get burnt or decay, in order to lock in the CO2 whilst you grow new trees to absorb the next lot of CO2. Some of it can be used for construction, but also if a way could be found to compress or liquefy the dead wood, it could perhaps be placed in old coal mines and old oil fields, essentially reversing some of the fossil-fuel burning. Dunno whether this is at all practical, though.

    The big advantage of trees for CO2 absorption is that they can cover gigantic areas.
    I think the other point about trees is that while they aren't more than a small part of the solution, they do point to the possibility of removing CO2 from the atmosphere using free energy (ie solar) without massive economic inputs (which someone earlier claimed wasn't even possible).
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    eek said:

    I'm sure this has been mentioned but it's unfortunate we cant just extract the CO2 from the atmosphere as we have put so much extra into it and heated the planet as a result.
    Don't get me started on Direct Air Capture...

    Plant trees and they'll do it for us. They are even self-replicating.
    Isn't the peak capture period of CO2 by trees 40+ years after they've been planted?
    And then a while later they die, decompose and the carbon they absorbed is released back to the atmosphere.
    A healthy forest is a net absorber of CO2.

    Also, timber used for construction keeps the carbon locked up for a long, long time.
    That's the thing which has been puzzling me. To remove the maximum amount of CO2 absorbed from the atmosphere by trees, I'd have thought you need to chop down mature trees and ensure that the wood doesn't get burnt or decay, in order to lock in the CO2 whilst you grow new trees to absorb the next lot of CO2. Some of it can be used for construction, but also if a way could be found to compress or liquefy the dead wood, it could perhaps be placed in old coal mines and old oil fields, essentially reversing some of the fossil-fuel burning. Dunno whether this is at all practical, though.

    The big advantage of trees for CO2 absorption is that they can cover gigantic areas.
    Charcoal (particularly activated charcoal) is an increasingly popular way of locking up CO2 for long periods at the same time as helping soil structure. Generally referred to as "Biochar".

    My family live just fractionally North of Watford Gap services. It does make sense as a sensory and geographical boundary, with the road, canal and railway squeezing through that little gap in the hills. The accent shifts around there too (to the rarely heard Rugby / Leicester accent whose sole celebrity speaker is Gary Lineker).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    I'm sure this has been mentioned but it's unfortunate we cant just extract the CO2 from the atmosphere as we have put so much extra into it and heated the planet as a result.
    Don't get me started on Direct Air Capture...

    Plant trees and they'll do it for us. They are even self-replicating.
    Isn't the peak capture period of CO2 by trees 40+ years after they've been planted?
    And then a while later they die, decompose and the carbon they absorbed is released back to the atmosphere.
    Doesn't the carbon stay in the ground ?
    Some may, but it mostly decomposes, giving off both heat and CO2.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Luckily for the LibDems, no-one will notice, but Ed Davey sounds as deluded as his predecessor, whose name everyone has forgotten:

    "I’m not the same as Boris Johnson: I never will be, I never have been, and I’m going to work my butt off until he’s out of No 10.”

    I mean, who on earth ever accused Ed Davey of being the same as Boris Johnson?

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1440348883238875145

    Correct in as far as he’s not PM, he never used to be Mayor of London, and he’ll never be either in the future!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    BigRich said:

    Compleatly off topic, but this seems a very big story (to me) that has not been mentioned on here.

    The problems and possible collapse of the Chines house builder 'EverGrand'

    This is a big company 200,000 direct employees 4,000,000 subcontractors, and at least £120 Billion in borrowing.

    They make money as you might expect, by borring money, getting land to build on and putting up lots of houses, then selling them, but have found that they don't have enough money, so have tried to sell some of there houses with big discounts but cant find buyers quick enough and now cant pay their workers. about 1.5 million people have allegedly given evergrand deposits for houses that may now never be completed. they do have a lot of unsold houses that they have used for collateral, but it seems that nobody wanted theses houses possibly because, they are in the wrong place or are rubbish.

    There are limited ways to invest savings in china, so investing in property is how a lot of people keep there wealth, and house prises to average earnings are very high.

    If the company colapers, and house prises collapse at the same time, which seems possible, then that's a big big shock to the chines economy. there are already some demonstrations are workers what there pay and others want there deposits back. how will this end?

    The crisis was deliberately provoked by the CCP regulator, by tightening up borrowing criteria.

    This is likely to hit leveraged buyers who expect prices to only go up (sound familiar?). I think Xi is wanting to cut down some of China's business tycoons down as an example to the rest. It may prove quite popular with poorer workers by cutting the cost of housing (familiar again?)

    Whether the CCP can manage this without a lot of collateral damage, we will see. They haven't a lot of experience of these things, but the creative destruction of recession is part of the business cycle.
  • BigRich said:

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Personally, I think we should scale down the mass testing of asymmetric kids, or maybe stop it all together. at this stage what is it achieving? kids are going to go on catching it, until, they have all (or nearly all) had it and we reach 'heard immunity' in kids. very few will get serially ill, but the mass testing and isolation only drags that out over a longer time, it does not stop it or significantly reduce the total number.

    Kids have had there education messed up enough over the last 19 months, taking an entirely aysumetomat kid out of school for yet another 2 weeks is not helping that. and again why is it better to drag this out for longer than needed.

    Yes, some times an adult, possibly an elderly or venerable adult will catch it form a kid, but that does not change by dragging it out over a longer pried, and given that we know the effectives of the vaccine wares off a bit over time, shorly it would be better to have that now, rather than in a few months time when the vaccines will have warn off even more.

    Also, I don't think that the testing is that expensive, but its not free and we have spend so much over the last 19 months, any saving now would be much apricated, as we look at tax rises, and speeding cuts.
    I'd go further, we should end all testing and tracing. If anyone wants a test that should be available but we should cease to encourage it etc

    The shield against the virus now should be the vaccine and other than that let it spread as it will. No more testing, no more distancing, no more masks, no more barriers. Anyone who hasn't been vaccinated that gets it, gets it. Anyone who has been vaccinated that gets it, gets it.

    Get back to normal now.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871
    edited September 2021
    Germany votes on Sunday and I suspect we're seeing the start of the final cavalcade of polls.

    Trend Research has the SPD leading the Union 27-22 with the Greens on 15 while the earlier Forsa poll had the SPD on 25, Union on 22 and the Greens on 17.

    We're also seeing some seat projections - these are notoriously difficult with the issue of "overhanging" or "levelling" seats to ensure proportionality (wouldn't it be great to have that here?).

    Euractiv has the following numbers:

    Social Democrats: 210 (+57)
    Union CDU/CSU: 170 (-76)
    Greens: 127 (+60)
    Free Democrats: 91 (+11)
    Alternative for Germany: 90 (-4)
    Linke: 51 (-18)

    That's a Bundestag of 739 members or 30 more than currently. Majority would therefore be 370 so SPD plus Union would be over the line as would SPD, Greens and FDP.

    Forsa's seat projection is based on a Bundestag of 762 members:

    Social Democrats: 206 (+53)
    Union CDU/CSU: 185 (-61)
    Greens: 140 (+73)
    Alternative for Germany: 91 (-3)
    Free Democrats: 91 (+11)
    Linke: 49 (-20)

    Majority would be 382 - so SPD plus Union just over the line and SPD, Greens and FDP more comfortably over.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited September 2021

    AlistairM said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The southern half of the Midlands is basically a giant commuting area for London. The idea it's a uniquely insular part of the country is silly.

    The southern part refuses to accept they are in the Midlands!
    A friend of mine used to use the phrase 'a bit Northamptonshire' for something which was neither one thing nor the other; or a bit vague and indecisive.
    Exactly.

    For many years I was tortured by the question, “where do the Midlands actually begin?”

    Eventually I went with watersheds, which puts Gloucs in the Midlands, Oxon and Bucks in the Thames Valley, and Beds, Cambs and Northants in “East Anglia and some Flat Bits”.
    Northamptonshire in East Anglia? That's a new one.
    Well strictly, East Anglia is Norfolk and Suffolk.
    Northants is part of a long Anglian salient with Beds and Cambs.

    Explains why Peterborough and Cambridge are so connected.
    Yes, in terms if history, the Angles didn't get south of the Stour. But from looking at a map, Cambs and Essex are geographically East Anglia.

    BTW, I think much of the regions problem stems from the fact that nobody proposed a Thames & Chilterns region, except for the old English Tourist Board.

    If you had that, you could chuck in the likes of Oxon, Berks, Beds and Bucks so they wouldn't have to rough it in the South East.

    Gloucestershire fits better with the West Country than the West Midlands.
    According to watersheds, which I decided was my favourite demarcation, Essex is in the “Thames” along with Hertfordshire, Middx, Surrey, Berks, Bucks etc.

    But Beds is Easterly.

    Again, this makes sense. Essex looks toward London in a way that Norfolk and Suffolk do not.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    dixiedean said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Has Justin Trudeau resigned yet? :D

    I'd give it approximately 4 years at least.
    He called a vanity election in the middle of a pandemic, explicitly to secure a majority and blew it!

    He'll be gone in 18 months. ;)
    End of a pandemic, surely.
    I didn't want to tempt fate... All it takes is one new vaccine-resistant variant and... ;)
  • eek said:

    I'm sure this has been mentioned but it's unfortunate we cant just extract the CO2 from the atmosphere as we have put so much extra into it and heated the planet as a result.
    Don't get me started on Direct Air Capture...

    Plant trees and they'll do it for us. They are even self-replicating.
    Isn't the peak capture period of CO2 by trees 40+ years after they've been planted?
    And then a while later they die, decompose and the carbon they absorbed is released back to the atmosphere.
    A healthy forest is a net absorber of CO2.

    Also, timber used for construction keeps the carbon locked up for a long, long time.
    That's the thing which has been puzzling me. To remove the maximum amount of CO2 absorbed from the atmosphere by trees, I'd have thought you need to chop down mature trees and ensure that the wood doesn't get burnt or decay, in order to lock in the CO2 whilst you grow new trees to absorb the next lot of CO2. Some of it can be used for construction, but also if a way could be found to compress or liquefy the dead wood, it could perhaps be placed in old coal mines and old oil fields, essentially reversing some of the fossil-fuel burning. Dunno whether this is at all practical, though.

    The big advantage of trees for CO2 absorption is that they can cover gigantic areas.
    Drax are proposing to retrofit CCS on their biomass fired units which, in theory, makes the whole system net carbon negative.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2021
    isam said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Optical Illusion Of Net Ratings

    "We asked a hundred people - "Who do you trust to buy a round for their friends in the pub, Boris Johnson or Sir Keir Starmer?" 42 said Boris, 24 Sir Keir, & the rest didn't know. They were asked who they thought would best organise a fun night out;. 42 said Boris, & 20 Sir Keir. In June 2020, another survey asked if the respondents thought either of the two "had personality" - Boris won by 34 points, 64 to 30. When asked again in September Boris increased his lead to 42, (67-25). The most recent Opinium poll asked whether the respondents found Boris or Sir Keir likeable - given that people would rather go for a night out with Boris, the choice they think has bags more personality of the two, it's not much of a surprise that he "got more likes" 43-38. So it would seem uncontroversial to say that Boris is the more likeable of the two men who want to be PM after the next GE. Unless...

    Unless, instead of basing the results on who people actually like, you decided to ask who they disliked as well, and subtracted one from the other. Using this method, Sir Keir suddenly becomes more likeable than the more liked Boris, braver than the man more people consider brave of the two, and a stronger leader than the leader he trails in terms of people's judgement of who is strong. (Opinium March 2020)"

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-optical-illusion-of-net-ratings.html

    Or the optical illusion of gross ratings. Aren't both valid and it's a question of which is the better steer for votes come elections?

    I don’t think so, obviously

    Miliband led Cameron on net satisfaction (and Lab led on VI) for quite some time, but very rarely on Gross Positives, and never on personality

    Sir Keir only leads on net satisfaction with one pollster anyway, and not with any in Gross Positives
    Grey is the Cammo lead over Ed in GP, Red the Net Satisfaction

    Blue is the Tory lead on VI.. ooer

    Yellow is the Cammo lead on personality


    Another way of showing Cammo's leads over EdM

    Dark Blue is the Cammo lead over Ed in GP, Light Blue the Net Satisfaction

    Red is the Tory lead on VI



  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    Foxy said:

    BigRich said:

    Compleatly off topic, but this seems a very big story (to me) that has not been mentioned on here.

    The problems and possible collapse of the Chines house builder 'EverGrand'

    This is a big company 200,000 direct employees 4,000,000 subcontractors, and at least £120 Billion in borrowing.

    They make money as you might expect, by borring money, getting land to build on and putting up lots of houses, then selling them, but have found that they don't have enough money, so have tried to sell some of there houses with big discounts but cant find buyers quick enough and now cant pay their workers. about 1.5 million people have allegedly given evergrand deposits for houses that may now never be completed. they do have a lot of unsold houses that they have used for collateral, but it seems that nobody wanted theses houses possibly because, they are in the wrong place or are rubbish.

    There are limited ways to invest savings in china, so investing in property is how a lot of people keep there wealth, and house prises to average earnings are very high.

    If the company colapers, and house prises collapse at the same time, which seems possible, then that's a big big shock to the chines economy. there are already some demonstrations are workers what there pay and others want there deposits back. how will this end?

    The crisis was deliberately provoked by the CCP regulator, by tightening up borrowing criteria.

    This is likely to hit leveraged buyers who expect prices to only go up (sound familiar?). I think Xi is wanting to cut down some of China's business tycoons down as an example to the rest. It may prove quite popular with poorer workers by cutting the cost of housing (familiar again?)

    Whether the CCP can manage this without a lot of collateral damage, we will see. They haven't a lot of experience of these things, but the creative destruction of recession is part of the business cycle.
    Anyone remember the copper ramp?

    Caused by the Chinese government decreeing that loans on strategic materials were awesome. So everyone had a stack of copper and lots of loans against it. Soon the same copper was loaned against X times.....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627

    BigRich said:

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Personally, I think we should scale down the mass testing of asymmetric kids, or maybe stop it all together. at this stage what is it achieving? kids are going to go on catching it, until, they have all (or nearly all) had it and we reach 'heard immunity' in kids. very few will get serially ill, but the mass testing and isolation only drags that out over a longer time, it does not stop it or significantly reduce the total number.

    Kids have had there education messed up enough over the last 19 months, taking an entirely aysumetomat kid out of school for yet another 2 weeks is not helping that. and again why is it better to drag this out for longer than needed.

    Yes, some times an adult, possibly an elderly or venerable adult will catch it form a kid, but that does not change by dragging it out over a longer pried, and given that we know the effectives of the vaccine wares off a bit over time, shorly it would be better to have that now, rather than in a few months time when the vaccines will have warn off even more.

    Also, I don't think that the testing is that expensive, but its not free and we have spend so much over the last 19 months, any saving now would be much apricated, as we look at tax rises, and speeding cuts.
    I'd go further, we should end all testing and tracing. If anyone wants a test that should be available but we should cease to encourage it etc

    The shield against the virus now should be the vaccine and other than that let it spread as it will. No more testing, no more distancing, no more masks, no more barriers. Anyone who hasn't been vaccinated that gets it, gets it. Anyone who has been vaccinated that gets it, gets it.

    Get back to normal now.
    I think that The Triumph of the Will is the way that the government wants to play it. By insisting on normality, it will be done.

    It doesn't work for hospitals though. No amount of pretence can create normality.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    malcolmg said:

    Luckily for the LibDems, no-one will notice, but Ed Davey sounds as deluded as his predecessor, whose name everyone has forgotten:

    "I’m not the same as Boris Johnson: I never will be, I never have been, and I’m going to work my butt off until he’s out of No 10.”

    I mean, who on earth ever accused Ed Davey of being the same as Boris Johnson?

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1440348883238875145

    Hard to believe they could have found someone as stupid and deluded as their last disaster but they have.
    They also have an absolute corker in Scotland as well.
    Good evening Malc! :D
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited September 2021
    Foxy said:

    BigRich said:

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Personally, I think we should scale down the mass testing of asymmetric kids, or maybe stop it all together. at this stage what is it achieving? kids are going to go on catching it, until, they have all (or nearly all) had it and we reach 'heard immunity' in kids. very few will get serially ill, but the mass testing and isolation only drags that out over a longer time, it does not stop it or significantly reduce the total number.

    Kids have had there education messed up enough over the last 19 months, taking an entirely aysumetomat kid out of school for yet another 2 weeks is not helping that. and again why is it better to drag this out for longer than needed.

    Yes, some times an adult, possibly an elderly or venerable adult will catch it form a kid, but that does not change by dragging it out over a longer pried, and given that we know the effectives of the vaccine wares off a bit over time, shorly it would be better to have that now, rather than in a few months time when the vaccines will have warn off even more.

    Also, I don't think that the testing is that expensive, but its not free and we have spend so much over the last 19 months, any saving now would be much apricated, as we look at tax rises, and speeding cuts.
    I'd go further, we should end all testing and tracing. If anyone wants a test that should be available but we should cease to encourage it etc

    The shield against the virus now should be the vaccine and other than that let it spread as it will. No more testing, no more distancing, no more masks, no more barriers. Anyone who hasn't been vaccinated that gets it, gets it. Anyone who has been vaccinated that gets it, gets it.

    Get back to normal now.
    I think that The Triumph of the Will is the way that the government wants to play it. By insisting on normality, it will be done.

    It doesn't work for hospitals though. No amount of pretence can create normality.
    You said in the past that a big issue was social distancing in the hospitals reducing capacity. Is that still happening or has capacity been restored back to normal?

    Scrapping all social distancing at hospitals etc to get capacity back to 100% (indeed higher if possible) should be an urgent priority.
  • What a surprise.

    Ireland has been assured by the Netherlands that Boris was talking shit when he claimed Mark Rutte offered to mediate between the U.K. and EU over Northern Ireland.

    https://twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1440347648175734794?s=21
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    stodge said:

    Germany votes on Sunday and I suspect we're seeing the start of the final cavalcade of polls.

    Trend Research has the SPD leading the Union 27-22 with the Greens on 15 while the earlier Forsa poll had the SPD on 25, Union on 22 and the Greens on 17.

    We're also seeing some seat projections - these are notoriously difficult with the issue of "overhanging" or "levelling" seats to ensure proportionality (wouldn't it be great to have that here?).

    Euractiv has the following numbers:

    Social Democrats: 210 (+57)
    Union CDU/CSU: 170 (-76)
    Greens: 127 (+60)
    Free Democrats: 91 (+11)
    Alternative for Germany: 90 (-4)
    Linke: 51 (-18)

    That's a Bundestag of 739 members or 30 more than currently. Majority would therefore be 370 so SPD plus Union would be over the line as would SPD, Greens and FDP.

    Forsa's seat projection is based on a Bundestag of 762 members:

    Social Democrats: 206 (+53)
    Union CDU/CSU: 185 (-61)
    Greens: 140 (+73)
    Alternative for Germany: 91 (-3)
    Free Democrats: 91 (+11)
    Linke: 49 (-20)

    Majority would be 382 - so SPD plus Union just over the line and SPD, Greens and FDP more comfortably over.

    Both of those projections have a Union, AfD, FDP below the threshold by 10-15 seats, not that it was ever likely, but it means if the FDP 'want in' then its SD, green and FDP or nothing so takes away their bargaining power, in that situation.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    edited September 2021

    Foxy said:

    BigRich said:

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Personally, I think we should scale down the mass testing of asymmetric kids, or maybe stop it all together. at this stage what is it achieving? kids are going to go on catching it, until, they have all (or nearly all) had it and we reach 'heard immunity' in kids. very few will get serially ill, but the mass testing and isolation only drags that out over a longer time, it does not stop it or significantly reduce the total number.

    Kids have had there education messed up enough over the last 19 months, taking an entirely aysumetomat kid out of school for yet another 2 weeks is not helping that. and again why is it better to drag this out for longer than needed.

    Yes, some times an adult, possibly an elderly or venerable adult will catch it form a kid, but that does not change by dragging it out over a longer pried, and given that we know the effectives of the vaccine wares off a bit over time, shorly it would be better to have that now, rather than in a few months time when the vaccines will have warn off even more.

    Also, I don't think that the testing is that expensive, but its not free and we have spend so much over the last 19 months, any saving now would be much apricated, as we look at tax rises, and speeding cuts.
    I'd go further, we should end all testing and tracing. If anyone wants a test that should be available but we should cease to encourage it etc

    The shield against the virus now should be the vaccine and other than that let it spread as it will. No more testing, no more distancing, no more masks, no more barriers. Anyone who hasn't been vaccinated that gets it, gets it. Anyone who has been vaccinated that gets it, gets it.

    Get back to normal now.
    I think that The Triumph of the Will is the way that the government wants to play it. By insisting on normality, it will be done.

    It doesn't work for hospitals though. No amount of pretence can create normality.
    You said in the past that a big issue was social distancing in the hospitals reducing capacity. Is that still happening or has capacity been restored back to normal.

    Scrapping all social distancing at hospitals etc to get capacity back to 100% (indeed higher if possible) should be an urgent priority.
    Yes, we still have to socially distance and wear masks at all times. This is national policy from the CMO and CNO.

    The biggest constraint though is staff depletion. This is a combination of vacancies, illness, maternity and redeployment to cover covid areas.

    Capacity in my dept is well below normal. 60% would be a reasonable guess, so each day the lists get longer. No amount of pretence can make it not so.
  • What's in helping Macron for Modi?
  • What a surprise.

    Ireland has been assured by the Netherlands that Boris was talking shit when he claimed Mark Rutte offered to mediate between the U.K. and EU over Northern Ireland.

    https://twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1440347648175734794?s=21

    It was not NI it was a defence and security agreement between UK and EU Rutte was referring to

    I read the report at the time and NI did not arise
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789

    What's in helping Macron for Modi?

    Raising the cost for the US to get Indian support.
  • Luckily for the LibDems, no-one will notice, but Ed Davey sounds as deluded as his predecessor, whose name everyone has forgotten:

    "I’m not the same as Boris Johnson: I never will be, I never have been, and I’m going to work my butt off until he’s out of No 10.”

    I mean, who on earth ever accused Ed Davey of being the same as Boris Johnson?

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1440348883238875145

    A timely reminder that whilst I might go on strike from voting Conservative I'm not going to vote for that tosspot.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    BigRich said:

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Personally, I think we should scale down the mass testing of asymmetric kids, or maybe stop it all together. at this stage what is it achieving? kids are going to go on catching it, until, they have all (or nearly all) had it and we reach 'heard immunity' in kids. very few will get serially ill, but the mass testing and isolation only drags that out over a longer time, it does not stop it or significantly reduce the total number.

    Kids have had there education messed up enough over the last 19 months, taking an entirely aysumetomat kid out of school for yet another 2 weeks is not helping that. and again why is it better to drag this out for longer than needed.

    Yes, some times an adult, possibly an elderly or venerable adult will catch it form a kid, but that does not change by dragging it out over a longer pried, and given that we know the effectives of the vaccine wares off a bit over time, shorly it would be better to have that now, rather than in a few months time when the vaccines will have warn off even more.

    Also, I don't think that the testing is that expensive, but its not free and we have spend so much over the last 19 months, any saving now would be much apricated, as we look at tax rises, and speeding cuts.
    I'd go further, we should end all testing and tracing. If anyone wants a test that should be available but we should cease to encourage it etc

    The shield against the virus now should be the vaccine and other than that let it spread as it will. No more testing, no more distancing, no more masks, no more barriers. Anyone who hasn't been vaccinated that gets it, gets it. Anyone who has been vaccinated that gets it, gets it.

    Get back to normal now.
    I think that The Triumph of the Will is the way that the government wants to play it. By insisting on normality, it will be done.

    It doesn't work for hospitals though. No amount of pretence can create normality.
    You said in the past that a big issue was social distancing in the hospitals reducing capacity. Is that still happening or has capacity been restored back to normal.

    Scrapping all social distancing at hospitals etc to get capacity back to 100% (indeed higher if possible) should be an urgent priority.
    Yes, we still have to socially distance and wear masks at all times. This is national policy from the CMO and CNO.

    The biggest constraint though is staff depletion. This is a combination of vacancies, illness, maternity and redeployment to cover covid areas.
    If it were up to me national policy would be changed then and abolish all distancing and mask requirements (except where you'd wear one normally of course).
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    O/T

    Zoe Strimpel in Unherd.

    https://unherd.com/2021/09/why-women-are-seeking-sugar-daddies/

    "During a recent trip to the US, I had lunch with a young man from New York, who told me glumly that many of his peers had spent the summer swanning around Europe while he stayed put in America. They were all flaunting it on Instagram, of course, but none as aggressively as a clutch of young women in their early 20s, who had spent time in the most expensive spots: the Amalfi Coast, Porto Cervo, Capri. I peered at his phone and saw images of the girls draped over each other in terrace restaurants, on the prows of boats, laid along tree branches in thong bikinis, glowing with the gold-dust of fine living.

    They were either still in college or freshly out of it. But the reason they, rather than the young man, were able to go yachting off Sardinia while sipping Dom Pérignon was because rich older men ­had hired them to come on a luxury holiday with them. The job — look hot, be nice, and be ready to accommodate more without crying assault — is called sugaring. It is — though sugar daddies or babies might not admit it — sex work. My friend betrayed no sense of surprise at the arrangement; such things had, he explained, become totally normal in his age group."
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    The Optical Illusion Of Net Ratings

    "We asked a hundred people - "Who do you trust to buy a round for their friends in the pub, Boris Johnson or Sir Keir Starmer?" 42 said Boris, 24 Sir Keir, & the rest didn't know. They were asked who they thought would best organise a fun night out;. 42 said Boris, & 20 Sir Keir. In June 2020, another survey asked if the respondents thought either of the two "had personality" - Boris won by 34 points, 64 to 30. When asked again in September Boris increased his lead to 42, (67-25). The most recent Opinium poll asked whether the respondents found Boris or Sir Keir likeable - given that people would rather go for a night out with Boris, the choice they think has bags more personality of the two, it's not much of a surprise that he "got more likes" 43-38. So it would seem uncontroversial to say that Boris is the more likeable of the two men who want to be PM after the next GE. Unless...

    Unless, instead of basing the results on who people actually like, you decided to ask who they disliked as well, and subtracted one from the other. Using this method, Sir Keir suddenly becomes more likeable than the more liked Boris, braver than the man more people consider brave of the two, and a stronger leader than the leader he trails in terms of people's judgement of who is strong. (Opinium March 2020)"

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-optical-illusion-of-net-ratings.html

    In any case, in the latest polls taken by each pollster, the one highlighted in the header is unique in having Sir Keir in the lead, either in terms of net ratings or Gross Positives


    Boris Boris Lead Sir Keir
    GP Net GP Net GP Net
    Averages 36.3 -8.4 9.4 5.3 26.9 -13.7
    Opinium 35 -13 5 -7 30 -6
    Panelbase 33 -9 10 7 23 -16
    Survation 38 -6 9 3 29 -9
    R&W 38 -4 14 14 24 -18
    IPSOS 28 -18 8 6 20 -24
    Delta 47 -2 11 11 36 -13
    ComRes 35 -7 9 3 26 -10

    Opinium is the only pollster with a media client that carries out regular approval ratings.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789

    Luckily for the LibDems, no-one will notice, but Ed Davey sounds as deluded as his predecessor, whose name everyone has forgotten:

    "I’m not the same as Boris Johnson: I never will be, I never have been, and I’m going to work my butt off until he’s out of No 10.”

    I mean, who on earth ever accused Ed Davey of being the same as Boris Johnson?

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1440348883238875145

    A timely reminder that whilst I might go on strike from voting Conservative I'm not going to vote for that tosspot.
    It is a serious concern for all ex-Tories. What the fuck is the alternative? I don't want to vote Tory, at the same time all the other parties are ridiculous.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2021

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    The Optical Illusion Of Net Ratings

    "We asked a hundred people - "Who do you trust to buy a round for their friends in the pub, Boris Johnson or Sir Keir Starmer?" 42 said Boris, 24 Sir Keir, & the rest didn't know. They were asked who they thought would best organise a fun night out;. 42 said Boris, & 20 Sir Keir. In June 2020, another survey asked if the respondents thought either of the two "had personality" - Boris won by 34 points, 64 to 30. When asked again in September Boris increased his lead to 42, (67-25). The most recent Opinium poll asked whether the respondents found Boris or Sir Keir likeable - given that people would rather go for a night out with Boris, the choice they think has bags more personality of the two, it's not much of a surprise that he "got more likes" 43-38. So it would seem uncontroversial to say that Boris is the more likeable of the two men who want to be PM after the next GE. Unless...

    Unless, instead of basing the results on who people actually like, you decided to ask who they disliked as well, and subtracted one from the other. Using this method, Sir Keir suddenly becomes more likeable than the more liked Boris, braver than the man more people consider brave of the two, and a stronger leader than the leader he trails in terms of people's judgement of who is strong. (Opinium March 2020)"

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-optical-illusion-of-net-ratings.html

    In any case, in the latest polls taken by each pollster, the one highlighted in the header is unique in having Sir Keir in the lead, either in terms of net ratings or Gross Positives


    Boris Boris Lead Sir Keir
    GP Net GP Net GP Net
    Averages 36.3 -8.4 9.4 5.3 26.9 -13.7
    Opinium 35 -13 5 -7 30 -6
    Panelbase 33 -9 10 7 23 -16
    Survation 38 -6 9 3 29 -9
    R&W 38 -4 14 14 24 -18
    IPSOS 28 -18 8 6 20 -24
    Delta 47 -2 11 11 36 -13
    ComRes 35 -7 9 3 26 -10

    Opinium is the only pollster with a media client that carries out regular approval ratings.
    It is obvious you favour Opinium over the rest. Personally I would rather go with the average of all pollsters than hang my hat on just the one, and if it was the one that confirmed my bias, I'd worry I was kidding myself

    Even so, Opinium still has Boris ahead on Gross Positives, which I think is the more important rating.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,311
    GIN1138 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Luckily for the LibDems, no-one will notice, but Ed Davey sounds as deluded as his predecessor, whose name everyone has forgotten:

    "I’m not the same as Boris Johnson: I never will be, I never have been, and I’m going to work my butt off until he’s out of No 10.”

    I mean, who on earth ever accused Ed Davey of being the same as Boris Johnson?

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1440348883238875145

    Hard to believe they could have found someone as stupid and deluded as their last disaster but they have.
    They also have an absolute corker in Scotland as well.
    Good evening Malc! :D
    Hello GIN, long time no speak o:)
  • MaxPB said:

    Luckily for the LibDems, no-one will notice, but Ed Davey sounds as deluded as his predecessor, whose name everyone has forgotten:

    "I’m not the same as Boris Johnson: I never will be, I never have been, and I’m going to work my butt off until he’s out of No 10.”

    I mean, who on earth ever accused Ed Davey of being the same as Boris Johnson?

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1440348883238875145

    A timely reminder that whilst I might go on strike from voting Conservative I'm not going to vote for that tosspot.
    It is a serious concern for all ex-Tories. What the fuck is the alternative? I don't want to vote Tory, at the same time all the other parties are ridiculous.
    Well said. Its depressing.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,311

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    BigRich said:

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Personally, I think we should scale down the mass testing of asymmetric kids, or maybe stop it all together. at this stage what is it achieving? kids are going to go on catching it, until, they have all (or nearly all) had it and we reach 'heard immunity' in kids. very few will get serially ill, but the mass testing and isolation only drags that out over a longer time, it does not stop it or significantly reduce the total number.

    Kids have had there education messed up enough over the last 19 months, taking an entirely aysumetomat kid out of school for yet another 2 weeks is not helping that. and again why is it better to drag this out for longer than needed.

    Yes, some times an adult, possibly an elderly or venerable adult will catch it form a kid, but that does not change by dragging it out over a longer pried, and given that we know the effectives of the vaccine wares off a bit over time, shorly it would be better to have that now, rather than in a few months time when the vaccines will have warn off even more.

    Also, I don't think that the testing is that expensive, but its not free and we have spend so much over the last 19 months, any saving now would be much apricated, as we look at tax rises, and speeding cuts.
    I'd go further, we should end all testing and tracing. If anyone wants a test that should be available but we should cease to encourage it etc

    The shield against the virus now should be the vaccine and other than that let it spread as it will. No more testing, no more distancing, no more masks, no more barriers. Anyone who hasn't been vaccinated that gets it, gets it. Anyone who has been vaccinated that gets it, gets it.

    Get back to normal now.
    I think that The Triumph of the Will is the way that the government wants to play it. By insisting on normality, it will be done.

    It doesn't work for hospitals though. No amount of pretence can create normality.
    You said in the past that a big issue was social distancing in the hospitals reducing capacity. Is that still happening or has capacity been restored back to normal.

    Scrapping all social distancing at hospitals etc to get capacity back to 100% (indeed higher if possible) should be an urgent priority.
    Yes, we still have to socially distance and wear masks at all times. This is national policy from the CMO and CNO.

    The biggest constraint though is staff depletion. This is a combination of vacancies, illness, maternity and redeployment to cover covid areas.
    If it were up to me national policy would be changed then and abolish all distancing and mask requirements (except where you'd wear one normally of course).
    Luckily I doubt you will get much further that the tea trolley in CCHQ
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    Zoe Strimpel in Unherd.

    https://unherd.com/2021/09/why-women-are-seeking-sugar-daddies/

    "During a recent trip to the US, I had lunch with a young man from New York, who told me glumly that many of his peers had spent the summer swanning around Europe while he stayed put in America. They were all flaunting it on Instagram, of course, but none as aggressively as a clutch of young women in their early 20s, who had spent time in the most expensive spots: the Amalfi Coast, Porto Cervo, Capri. I peered at his phone and saw images of the girls draped over each other in terrace restaurants, on the prows of boats, laid along tree branches in thong bikinis, glowing with the gold-dust of fine living.

    They were either still in college or freshly out of it. But the reason they, rather than the young man, were able to go yachting off Sardinia while sipping Dom Pérignon was because rich older men ­had hired them to come on a luxury holiday with them. The job — look hot, be nice, and be ready to accommodate more without crying assault — is called sugaring. It is — though sugar daddies or babies might not admit it — sex work. My friend betrayed no sense of surprise at the arrangement; such things had, he explained, become totally normal in his age group."

    Inevitable consequence of stark wealth inequality.
    "What first attracted you to millionaire Paul Daniels?"
  • MaxPB said:

    What's in helping Macron for Modi?

    Raising the cost for the US to get Indian support.
    Good point.
  • malcolmg said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    BigRich said:

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Personally, I think we should scale down the mass testing of asymmetric kids, or maybe stop it all together. at this stage what is it achieving? kids are going to go on catching it, until, they have all (or nearly all) had it and we reach 'heard immunity' in kids. very few will get serially ill, but the mass testing and isolation only drags that out over a longer time, it does not stop it or significantly reduce the total number.

    Kids have had there education messed up enough over the last 19 months, taking an entirely aysumetomat kid out of school for yet another 2 weeks is not helping that. and again why is it better to drag this out for longer than needed.

    Yes, some times an adult, possibly an elderly or venerable adult will catch it form a kid, but that does not change by dragging it out over a longer pried, and given that we know the effectives of the vaccine wares off a bit over time, shorly it would be better to have that now, rather than in a few months time when the vaccines will have warn off even more.

    Also, I don't think that the testing is that expensive, but its not free and we have spend so much over the last 19 months, any saving now would be much apricated, as we look at tax rises, and speeding cuts.
    I'd go further, we should end all testing and tracing. If anyone wants a test that should be available but we should cease to encourage it etc

    The shield against the virus now should be the vaccine and other than that let it spread as it will. No more testing, no more distancing, no more masks, no more barriers. Anyone who hasn't been vaccinated that gets it, gets it. Anyone who has been vaccinated that gets it, gets it.

    Get back to normal now.
    I think that The Triumph of the Will is the way that the government wants to play it. By insisting on normality, it will be done.

    It doesn't work for hospitals though. No amount of pretence can create normality.
    You said in the past that a big issue was social distancing in the hospitals reducing capacity. Is that still happening or has capacity been restored back to normal.

    Scrapping all social distancing at hospitals etc to get capacity back to 100% (indeed higher if possible) should be an urgent priority.
    Yes, we still have to socially distance and wear masks at all times. This is national policy from the CMO and CNO.

    The biggest constraint though is staff depletion. This is a combination of vacancies, illness, maternity and redeployment to cover covid areas.
    If it were up to me national policy would be changed then and abolish all distancing and mask requirements (except where you'd wear one normally of course).
    Luckily I doubt you will get much further that the tea trolley in CCHQ
    You think this was penned by CCHQ? 🤔

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/09/08/why-im-quitting-the-conservative-party/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100K

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    UK local R

    image
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    malcolmg said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    BigRich said:

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Personally, I think we should scale down the mass testing of asymmetric kids, or maybe stop it all together. at this stage what is it achieving? kids are going to go on catching it, until, they have all (or nearly all) had it and we reach 'heard immunity' in kids. very few will get serially ill, but the mass testing and isolation only drags that out over a longer time, it does not stop it or significantly reduce the total number.

    Kids have had there education messed up enough over the last 19 months, taking an entirely aysumetomat kid out of school for yet another 2 weeks is not helping that. and again why is it better to drag this out for longer than needed.

    Yes, some times an adult, possibly an elderly or venerable adult will catch it form a kid, but that does not change by dragging it out over a longer pried, and given that we know the effectives of the vaccine wares off a bit over time, shorly it would be better to have that now, rather than in a few months time when the vaccines will have warn off even more.

    Also, I don't think that the testing is that expensive, but its not free and we have spend so much over the last 19 months, any saving now would be much apricated, as we look at tax rises, and speeding cuts.
    I'd go further, we should end all testing and tracing. If anyone wants a test that should be available but we should cease to encourage it etc

    The shield against the virus now should be the vaccine and other than that let it spread as it will. No more testing, no more distancing, no more masks, no more barriers. Anyone who hasn't been vaccinated that gets it, gets it. Anyone who has been vaccinated that gets it, gets it.

    Get back to normal now.
    I think that The Triumph of the Will is the way that the government wants to play it. By insisting on normality, it will be done.

    It doesn't work for hospitals though. No amount of pretence can create normality.
    You said in the past that a big issue was social distancing in the hospitals reducing capacity. Is that still happening or has capacity been restored back to normal.

    Scrapping all social distancing at hospitals etc to get capacity back to 100% (indeed higher if possible) should be an urgent priority.
    Yes, we still have to socially distance and wear masks at all times. This is national policy from the CMO and CNO.

    The biggest constraint though is staff depletion. This is a combination of vacancies, illness, maternity and redeployment to cover covid areas.
    If it were up to me national policy would be changed then and abolish all distancing and mask requirements (except where you'd wear one normally of course).
    Luckily I doubt you will get much further that the tea trolley in CCHQ
    You think this was penned by CCHQ? 🤔

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/09/08/why-im-quitting-the-conservative-party/
    Deep cover operation.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    The Optical Illusion Of Net Ratings

    "We asked a hundred people - "Who do you trust to buy a round for their friends in the pub, Boris Johnson or Sir Keir Starmer?" 42 said Boris, 24 Sir Keir, & the rest didn't know. They were asked who they thought would best organise a fun night out;. 42 said Boris, & 20 Sir Keir. In June 2020, another survey asked if the respondents thought either of the two "had personality" - Boris won by 34 points, 64 to 30. When asked again in September Boris increased his lead to 42, (67-25). The most recent Opinium poll asked whether the respondents found Boris or Sir Keir likeable - given that people would rather go for a night out with Boris, the choice they think has bags more personality of the two, it's not much of a surprise that he "got more likes" 43-38. So it would seem uncontroversial to say that Boris is the more likeable of the two men who want to be PM after the next GE. Unless...

    Unless, instead of basing the results on who people actually like, you decided to ask who they disliked as well, and subtracted one from the other. Using this method, Sir Keir suddenly becomes more likeable than the more liked Boris, braver than the man more people consider brave of the two, and a stronger leader than the leader he trails in terms of people's judgement of who is strong. (Opinium March 2020)"

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-optical-illusion-of-net-ratings.html

    In any case, in the latest polls taken by each pollster, the one highlighted in the header is unique in having Sir Keir in the lead, either in terms of net ratings or Gross Positives


    Boris Boris Lead Sir Keir
    GP Net GP Net GP Net
    Averages 36.3 -8.4 9.4 5.3 26.9 -13.7
    Opinium 35 -13 5 -7 30 -6
    Panelbase 33 -9 10 7 23 -16
    Survation 38 -6 9 3 29 -9
    R&W 38 -4 14 14 24 -18
    IPSOS 28 -18 8 6 20 -24
    Delta 47 -2 11 11 36 -13
    ComRes 35 -7 9 3 26 -10

    Opinium is the only pollster with a media client that carries out regular approval ratings.
    It is obvious you favour Opinium over the rest. Personally I would rather go with the average of all pollsters than hang my hat on just the one, and if it was the one that confirmed my bias, I'd worry I was kidding myself
    You cannot have an average here when they ask different questions. Some are on favourability, others are on satisfaction or well/badly.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871


    A timely reminder that whilst I might go on strike from voting Conservative I'm not going to vote for that tosspot.

    I'm genuinely curious - Davey says something you don't like and he's automatically a "tosspot".

    In all honesty, for a forum which occasionally talks about politics, the widespread contempt for almost all politicians is perhaps predictable but it's not sensible.

    Who or what would make a good politician in your eyes? Inasmuch as no politician would run the country directly for your benefit (or mine), what is it you are looking for in a political figure?

    Do you want a "strong" leader - lots of people enjoy being told what to do after all - or just someone who does the things you want?

    I've dabbled in politics in my time - it's hard and often thankless work. You set off with noble intentions around public service and "wanting to do good" and it just wears you down - not the system but the ingratitude. Yet if, at any point, you sound off and reference that, out comes the abuse and vitriol.

    It's often said a country gets the politicians it deserves - the more I see that, both here and round the world, the more accurate I think it is.
  • In response to an NYT article entitled "The sharp US pivot to Asia is throwing Europe off balance", the CEO of an EU think take replied: "Do not worry, Ursula von der Leyen will do like she did with the vaccines."

    https://twitter.com/karel_lannoo/status/1439122367167582208?s=20
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    UK case summary

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    UK hospitals

    image
    image
    image
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    BigRich said:

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Personally, I think we should scale down the mass testing of asymmetric kids, or maybe stop it all together. at this stage what is it achieving? kids are going to go on catching it, until, they have all (or nearly all) had it and we reach 'heard immunity' in kids. very few will get serially ill, but the mass testing and isolation only drags that out over a longer time, it does not stop it or significantly reduce the total number.

    Kids have had there education messed up enough over the last 19 months, taking an entirely aysumetomat kid out of school for yet another 2 weeks is not helping that. and again why is it better to drag this out for longer than needed.

    Yes, some times an adult, possibly an elderly or venerable adult will catch it form a kid, but that does not change by dragging it out over a longer pried, and given that we know the effectives of the vaccine wares off a bit over time, shorly it would be better to have that now, rather than in a few months time when the vaccines will have warn off even more.

    Also, I don't think that the testing is that expensive, but its not free and we have spend so much over the last 19 months, any saving now would be much apricated, as we look at tax rises, and speeding cuts.
    I'd go further, we should end all testing and tracing. If anyone wants a test that should be available but we should cease to encourage it etc

    The shield against the virus now should be the vaccine and other than that let it spread as it will. No more testing, no more distancing, no more masks, no more barriers. Anyone who hasn't been vaccinated that gets it, gets it. Anyone who has been vaccinated that gets it, gets it.

    Get back to normal now.
    I think that The Triumph of the Will is the way that the government wants to play it. By insisting on normality, it will be done.

    It doesn't work for hospitals though. No amount of pretence can create normality.
    You said in the past that a big issue was social distancing in the hospitals reducing capacity. Is that still happening or has capacity been restored back to normal.

    Scrapping all social distancing at hospitals etc to get capacity back to 100% (indeed higher if possible) should be an urgent priority.
    Yes, we still have to socially distance and wear masks at all times. This is national policy from the CMO and CNO.

    The biggest constraint though is staff depletion. This is a combination of vacancies, illness, maternity and redeployment to cover covid areas.
    If it were up to me national policy would be changed then and abolish all distancing and mask requirements (except where you'd wear one normally of course).
    That may help somewhat, but if the biggest constraint is staff who have given 110% for eighteen months and have nothing else to give, what do we all do about that?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    UK Deaths

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    Age related data

    image
    image
    image
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789

    In response to an NYT article entitled "The sharp US pivot to Asia is throwing Europe off balance", the CEO of an EU think take replied: "Do not worry, Ursula von der Leyen will do like she did with the vaccines."

    https://twitter.com/karel_lannoo/status/1439122367167582208?s=20

    LOL.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The southern half of the Midlands is basically a giant commuting area for London. The idea it's a uniquely insular part of the country is silly.

    The southern part refuses to accept they are in the Midlands!
    A friend of mine used to use the phrase 'a bit Northamptonshire' for something which was neither one thing nor the other; or a bit vague and indecisive.
    It's where to go if you want to be an equal distance from everywhere else. All your friends and family, north and south, east and west, have a 2 hour drive to get to you. So it's a very fair place to live.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    Age related data scaled to 100K

    image
    image
    image
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    BigRich said:

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Personally, I think we should scale down the mass testing of asymmetric kids, or maybe stop it all together. at this stage what is it achieving? kids are going to go on catching it, until, they have all (or nearly all) had it and we reach 'heard immunity' in kids. very few will get serially ill, but the mass testing and isolation only drags that out over a longer time, it does not stop it or significantly reduce the total number.

    Kids have had there education messed up enough over the last 19 months, taking an entirely aysumetomat kid out of school for yet another 2 weeks is not helping that. and again why is it better to drag this out for longer than needed.

    Yes, some times an adult, possibly an elderly or venerable adult will catch it form a kid, but that does not change by dragging it out over a longer pried, and given that we know the effectives of the vaccine wares off a bit over time, shorly it would be better to have that now, rather than in a few months time when the vaccines will have warn off even more.

    Also, I don't think that the testing is that expensive, but its not free and we have spend so much over the last 19 months, any saving now would be much apricated, as we look at tax rises, and speeding cuts.
    I'd go further, we should end all testing and tracing. If anyone wants a test that should be available but we should cease to encourage it etc

    The shield against the virus now should be the vaccine and other than that let it spread as it will. No more testing, no more distancing, no more masks, no more barriers. Anyone who hasn't been vaccinated that gets it, gets it. Anyone who has been vaccinated that gets it, gets it.

    Get back to normal now.
    I think that The Triumph of the Will is the way that the government wants to play it. By insisting on normality, it will be done.

    It doesn't work for hospitals though. No amount of pretence can create normality.
    You said in the past that a big issue was social distancing in the hospitals reducing capacity. Is that still happening or has capacity been restored back to normal.

    Scrapping all social distancing at hospitals etc to get capacity back to 100% (indeed higher if possible) should be an urgent priority.
    Yes, we still have to socially distance and wear masks at all times. This is national policy from the CMO and CNO.

    The biggest constraint though is staff depletion. This is a combination of vacancies, illness, maternity and redeployment to cover covid areas.
    If it were up to me national policy would be changed then and abolish all distancing and mask requirements (except where you'd wear one normally of course).
    That may help somewhat, but if the biggest constraint is staff who have given 110% for eighteen months and have nothing else to give, what do we all do about that?
    Get rid of any barriers that get in their way or make their jobs uncomfortable or unpleasant like social distancing, unnecessary masks etc and then make do the best that you can with the staff you've got - while doing whatever you can to train and recruit any new staff.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871

    MaxPB said:

    Luckily for the LibDems, no-one will notice, but Ed Davey sounds as deluded as his predecessor, whose name everyone has forgotten:

    "I’m not the same as Boris Johnson: I never will be, I never have been, and I’m going to work my butt off until he’s out of No 10.”

    I mean, who on earth ever accused Ed Davey of being the same as Boris Johnson?

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1440348883238875145

    A timely reminder that whilst I might go on strike from voting Conservative I'm not going to vote for that tosspot.
    It is a serious concern for all ex-Tories. What the fuck is the alternative? I don't want to vote Tory, at the same time all the other parties are ridiculous.
    Well said. Its depressing.
    Nobody's stopping the three of you setting up your own party.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    COVID Summary

    Everything is falling apart from a rise in cases in the youngest, unvaccinated groups. The 15-19 group continue the steep descent to join the other, vaccinated groups.

    image
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2021

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    The Optical Illusion Of Net Ratings

    "We asked a hundred people - "Who do you trust to buy a round for their friends in the pub, Boris Johnson or Sir Keir Starmer?" 42 said Boris, 24 Sir Keir, & the rest didn't know. They were asked who they thought would best organise a fun night out;. 42 said Boris, & 20 Sir Keir. In June 2020, another survey asked if the respondents thought either of the two "had personality" - Boris won by 34 points, 64 to 30. When asked again in September Boris increased his lead to 42, (67-25). The most recent Opinium poll asked whether the respondents found Boris or Sir Keir likeable - given that people would rather go for a night out with Boris, the choice they think has bags more personality of the two, it's not much of a surprise that he "got more likes" 43-38. So it would seem uncontroversial to say that Boris is the more likeable of the two men who want to be PM after the next GE. Unless...

    Unless, instead of basing the results on who people actually like, you decided to ask who they disliked as well, and subtracted one from the other. Using this method, Sir Keir suddenly becomes more likeable than the more liked Boris, braver than the man more people consider brave of the two, and a stronger leader than the leader he trails in terms of people's judgement of who is strong. (Opinium March 2020)"

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-optical-illusion-of-net-ratings.html

    In any case, in the latest polls taken by each pollster, the one highlighted in the header is unique in having Sir Keir in the lead, either in terms of net ratings or Gross Positives


    Boris Boris Lead Sir Keir
    GP Net GP Net GP Net
    Averages 36.3 -8.4 9.4 5.3 26.9 -13.7
    Opinium 35 -13 5 -7 30 -6
    Panelbase 33 -9 10 7 23 -16
    Survation 38 -6 9 3 29 -9
    R&W 38 -4 14 14 24 -18
    IPSOS 28 -18 8 6 20 -24
    Delta 47 -2 11 11 36 -13
    ComRes 35 -7 9 3 26 -10

    Opinium is the only pollster with a media client that carries out regular approval ratings.
    It is obvious you favour Opinium over the rest. Personally I would rather go with the average of all pollsters than hang my hat on just the one, and if it was the one that confirmed my bias, I'd worry I was kidding myself
    You cannot have an average here when they ask different questions. Some are on favourability, others are on satisfaction or well/badly.
    Well put it this way - on the questions asked that fall under roughly the same umbrella, Boris leads on Gross Positives with Opinium, You Gov, ComRes, IPSOS MORI, Survation, Redfield & Wilton, DeltaPoll, & Panelbase

    Sir Keir leads with none

    Boris leads on Net Satisfaction with You Gov, ComRes, IPSOS MORI, Survation, Redfield & Wilton, DeltaPoll, & Panelbase

    Sir Keir leads with Opinium

    So my take is, generally Boris is better thought of, whether it be Gross Pos or Net Satisfaction. You are free to throw all your chips in with Opinium, I just disagree it’s the best way to analyse it

  • MaxPB said:

    What's in helping Macron for Modi?

    Raising the cost for the US to get Indian support.
    Good point.
    India, Japan, US, and Aus are the members of Quad and the leaders are due to meet in the US this week.

    Quad is designed to thwart China's growing presence in the Indo Pacific and no doubt AUKUS will be on the agenda

    However, I see no issues with France and India cooperation in this field
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789
    stodge said:

    MaxPB said:

    Luckily for the LibDems, no-one will notice, but Ed Davey sounds as deluded as his predecessor, whose name everyone has forgotten:

    "I’m not the same as Boris Johnson: I never will be, I never have been, and I’m going to work my butt off until he’s out of No 10.”

    I mean, who on earth ever accused Ed Davey of being the same as Boris Johnson?

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1440348883238875145

    A timely reminder that whilst I might go on strike from voting Conservative I'm not going to vote for that tosspot.
    It is a serious concern for all ex-Tories. What the fuck is the alternative? I don't want to vote Tory, at the same time all the other parties are ridiculous.
    Well said. Its depressing.
    Nobody's stopping the three of you setting up your own party.
    As an ex-Tory I like winning. The UK is not a place where new parties can win.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    stodge said:

    MaxPB said:

    Luckily for the LibDems, no-one will notice, but Ed Davey sounds as deluded as his predecessor, whose name everyone has forgotten:

    "I’m not the same as Boris Johnson: I never will be, I never have been, and I’m going to work my butt off until he’s out of No 10.”

    I mean, who on earth ever accused Ed Davey of being the same as Boris Johnson?

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1440348883238875145

    A timely reminder that whilst I might go on strike from voting Conservative I'm not going to vote for that tosspot.
    It is a serious concern for all ex-Tories. What the fuck is the alternative? I don't want to vote Tory, at the same time all the other parties are ridiculous.
    Well said. Its depressing.
    Nobody's stopping the three of you setting up your own party.
    The most recent political party registered with the Electoral Commission is The Pensioner's Party.

    Seems redundant.

    http://search.electoralcommission.org.uk/English/Registrations/PP12853
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    Zoe Strimpel in Unherd.

    https://unherd.com/2021/09/why-women-are-seeking-sugar-daddies/

    "During a recent trip to the US, I had lunch with a young man from New York, who told me glumly that many of his peers had spent the summer swanning around Europe while he stayed put in America. They were all flaunting it on Instagram, of course, but none as aggressively as a clutch of young women in their early 20s, who had spent time in the most expensive spots: the Amalfi Coast, Porto Cervo, Capri. I peered at his phone and saw images of the girls draped over each other in terrace restaurants, on the prows of boats, laid along tree branches in thong bikinis, glowing with the gold-dust of fine living.

    They were either still in college or freshly out of it. But the reason they, rather than the young man, were able to go yachting off Sardinia while sipping Dom Pérignon was because rich older men ­had hired them to come on a luxury holiday with them. The job — look hot, be nice, and be ready to accommodate more without crying assault — is called sugaring. It is — though sugar daddies or babies might not admit it — sex work. My friend betrayed no sense of surprise at the arrangement; such things had, he explained, become totally normal in his age group."

    Jane Austen wrote several books on a similar theme.
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