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Keir has a net approval lead over Boris – but where it matters least – politicalbetting.com

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    isam said:

    The Optical Illusion Of Net Ratings

    "We asked a hundred people - "Who do you trust to buy a round for their friends in the pub, Boris Johnson or Sir Keir Starmer?" 42 said Boris, 24 Sir Keir, & the rest didn't know. They were asked who they thought would best organise a fun night out;. 42 said Boris, & 20 Sir Keir. In June 2020, another survey asked if the respondents thought either of the two "had personality" - Boris won by 34 points, 64 to 30. When asked again in September Boris increased his lead to 42, (67-25). The most recent Opinium poll asked whether the respondents found Boris or Sir Keir likeable - given that people would rather go for a night out with Boris, the choice they think has bags more personality of the two, it's not much of a surprise that he "got more likes" 43-38. So it would seem uncontroversial to say that Boris is the more likeable of the two men who want to be PM after the next GE. Unless...

    Unless, instead of basing the results on who people actually like, you decided to ask who they disliked as well, and subtracted one from the other. Using this method, Sir Keir suddenly becomes more likeable than the more liked Boris, braver than the man more people consider brave of the two, and a stronger leader than the leader he trails in terms of people's judgement of who is strong. (Opinium March 2020)"

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-optical-illusion-of-net-ratings.html

    Or the optical illusion of gross ratings. Aren't both valid and it's a question of which is the better steer for votes come elections?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Nigelb said:

    MrEd said:

    Not sure if this has been posted before but a bad approval poll for Biden in Iowa:

    https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/2021/09/21/president-joe-biden-job-approval-rating-plunges-after-afghanistan-covid-surge/8378224002/

    Those who think he is doing a good job now stands at 31% in Iowa. Trump's worst rating was 37% and Obama's 36%. Only Bush Jr was lower at 25%.

    The usual caveats about reading too much into one poll in one state apply but hard to see much in the way of positives for Biden in this.

    If polling is to be believed, Abbott will get chucked out from the Texas governorship in favour of Matthew McConaughey...
    https://thehill.com/homenews/the-memo/573113-the-memo-could-orourke-beat-abbott-to-become-governor-of-texas
    If McConaughey decides to stand. Not clear what he will do yet.

    Re Biden, take your pick but the trend line should worry him.
  • MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    Boris has given up on the US FTA.

    We’ve got Australia instead, worth about a thruppeny bit in new money.
    How's TTIP coming along?
    Dunno.

    As I posted yesterday, there’s a risk that China’s application will queer our pitch.

    Still, in sheer volume of trade terms:

    EU > USA > TTIP
    Given that the UK has already got deals with Japan and Canada (as do the EU), with Australia and NZ somewhere in the pipeline (quite possibly unlike the EU, for now anyway), how big are the economic benefits of adding the rest of TTIP?

    I can see the political benefits in terms of making you-know-what seem like a good idea, and making any future backsliding on you-know-what harder, but you'd have to be really insecure about the popularity and longevity of your life's achievement to worry about that, wouldn't you?
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    MrEd said:

    Not sure if this has been posted before but a bad approval poll for Biden in Iowa:

    https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/2021/09/21/president-joe-biden-job-approval-rating-plunges-after-afghanistan-covid-surge/8378224002/

    Those who think he is doing a good job now stands at 31% in Iowa. Trump's worst rating was 37% and Obama's 36%. Only Bush Jr was lower at 25%.

    The usual caveats about reading too much into one poll in one state apply but hard to see much in the way of positives for Biden in this.

    Trump won IOWA by 8% in 2020, 53% to 45% so not that surprising that a Dem POTUS is less popular at comparable points of the election cycle.
  • Remember “Yellowhammer”? Supposed worst case for No Deal planning.


    Hahaha your desperation to make this about Brexit is truly a sight to behold.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    eek said:

    Mr. Max, it always puzzles me when I see women-led or the like on business entries on Googlemaps.

    It's not a problem, but obviously a business has to be 'led' by men or women...

    On voting: EHV is the optimal system. Enormo-haddock voting eliminates human error by removing humans from the voting process. It's a sensible policy for a happier Britain.

    “Ankh-Morpork had dallied with many forms of government and had ended up with that form of democracy known as One Man, One Vote. The Patrician was the Man; he had the Vote.”

    ― Terry Pratchett, Mort
    I remember quoting that to my daughter, who was asking about why she couldn't make decisions at the age of 6, on everything..
    Sounds like you had a little rebel on your hands, trust you nipped that in the bud.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    Boris has given up on the US FTA.

    We’ve got Australia instead, worth about a thruppeny bit in new money.
    How's TTIP coming along?
    Dunno.

    As I posted yesterday, there’s a risk that China’s application will queer our pitch.

    Still, in sheer volume of trade terms:

    EU > USA > TTIP
    Given that the UK has already got deals with Japan and Canada (as do the EU), with Australia and NZ somewhere in the pipeline (quite possibly unlike the EU, for now anyway), how big are the economic benefits of adding the rest of TTIP?

    I can see the political benefits in terms of making you-know-what seem like a good idea, and making any future backsliding on you-know-what harder, but you'd have to be really insecure about the popularity and longevity of your life's achievement to worry about that, wouldn't you?
    Small, but big if the US decides to join in the end, as they have recently again expressed interest in doing. And I think Gardenwalker meant CPTPP, the pacific one.
  • Remember “Yellowhammer”? Supposed worst case for No Deal planning.


    Hahaha your desperation to make this about Brexit is truly a sight to behold.
    I didn’t actually mention Brexit.
    Still, spooky coincidence, innit?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    Remember “Yellowhammer”? Supposed worst case for No Deal planning.


    Hahaha your desperation to make this about Brexit is truly a sight to behold.
    I didn’t actually mention Brexit.
    Still, spooky coincidence, innit?
    Yellowhammer is unrelated to Brexit?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    RobD said:

    Remember “Yellowhammer”? Supposed worst case for No Deal planning.


    Hahaha your desperation to make this about Brexit is truly a sight to behold.
    I didn’t actually mention Brexit.
    Still, spooky coincidence, innit?
    Yellowhammer is unrelated to Brexit?
    And referenced no deal planning.
  • Good afternoon all.

    Well I bought a pie in Wigan, saw the sea in Southport and was able to refill my water bottle in Bolton.

    Living the dream.

    Oh, and mask wearing is becoming very uncommon on trains.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098

    Not clear how much longer Boris will protect any lead while the High-Tax Tories continue to hammer working people.

    FWIW, I am on record saying that the NI rise will be abandoned either before, or soon after, it comes into force.

    I doubt it with 41% approval v 48% disappoval
    How many of the 41% approving don't work for a living and don't pay NI as a result?
    More importantly, the poll tax started life with better polling than that: 43-39 in favour;
    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/community-charge
    Now, some of that may be the halo of a General Election victory, but to start a policy with net unfavourable is... brave, Prime Minister.

    The government's problem is that, even if the economy bounces back well, there's no spare money to pay for nice things like dealing with the NHS backlog. If you don't want this increase in NI, you either have to find something else to tax (almost anything would be better, TBH) or some more spending to cut.
    Or recognise that pandemic spending is temporary and borrow and fix the deficit over the economic cycle.
    Fair enough- though Rishi seems to have put his foot down there- see also education catchup (or lack thereof). How much that is Rishi's relative inexperience and lack of stature against Treasury orthodoxy, and how much it is that he wants low government spending as a matter of preference, I don't know.
    Treasury orthodoxy is a key control over populist PMs who would trash the future because they want to be loved today.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    Good. I said long before the Brexit vote we didn't want a trade deal with the US. Why would we when we already have a big trade surplus with them and any deal is bound to include arbitration terms that are weighted heavily in their favour?
    Some trade deals sound good but only work for those who don't understand the compromises a trade deal actually require.
    Are you, like Tyndall, from the Midlands by any chance?

    Mercantilism seems endemic there.
    Nope, but I'm very surprised someone on this doesn't know where I live as I drop it in often enough (it's Darlington if you don't know).
  • kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Optical Illusion Of Net Ratings

    "We asked a hundred people - "Who do you trust to buy a round for their friends in the pub, Boris Johnson or Sir Keir Starmer?" 42 said Boris, 24 Sir Keir, & the rest didn't know. They were asked who they thought would best organise a fun night out;. 42 said Boris, & 20 Sir Keir. In June 2020, another survey asked if the respondents thought either of the two "had personality" - Boris won by 34 points, 64 to 30. When asked again in September Boris increased his lead to 42, (67-25). The most recent Opinium poll asked whether the respondents found Boris or Sir Keir likeable - given that people would rather go for a night out with Boris, the choice they think has bags more personality of the two, it's not much of a surprise that he "got more likes" 43-38. So it would seem uncontroversial to say that Boris is the more likeable of the two men who want to be PM after the next GE. Unless...

    Unless, instead of basing the results on who people actually like, you decided to ask who they disliked as well, and subtracted one from the other. Using this method, Sir Keir suddenly becomes more likeable than the more liked Boris, braver than the man more people consider brave of the two, and a stronger leader than the leader he trails in terms of people's judgement of who is strong. (Opinium March 2020)"

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-optical-illusion-of-net-ratings.html

    Or the optical illusion of gross ratings. Aren't both valid and it's a question of which is the better steer for votes come elections?
    Probably somewhere between the two.

    One of the joys of FPTP is that success is partly about how many votes you get, but also how many your next-placed rival gets. A marmite candidate will attract votes- sure. But they will also tend to concentrate the anti vote behind the best-placed opponent. Kick 'em out and all that. Pure netting probably overstates that effect, but it's non-zero, which is what pure grossing assumes.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    edited September 2021

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    Are we still clearing the unvaccinated to the infected pool, or is previous infection so high that the 31,564 cases aren't disproportionately amongst the unvaccinated any more. That's the real question.

    WHO is catching the virus.
  • Remember “Yellowhammer”? Supposed worst case for No Deal planning.


    Hahaha your desperation to make this about Brexit is truly a sight to behold.
    I didn’t actually mention Brexit.
    Still, spooky coincidence, innit?
    Nope. Just you getting desperate.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,721
    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    The Optical Illusion Of Net Ratings

    "We asked a hundred people - "Who do you trust to buy a round for their friends in the pub, Boris Johnson or Sir Keir Starmer?" 42 said Boris, 24 Sir Keir, & the rest didn't know...

    I'm not sure anyone who believes Boris would reliably stand his round in the pub deserves a vote.


    First out of the taxi, last to the bar is more his style.
    I'm not sure. I think he might be first to the bar ordering a round of drinks for everyone only to discover when the bill came in that he had mysteriously mislaid his wallet...
  • kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Remember “Yellowhammer”? Supposed worst case for No Deal planning.


    Hahaha your desperation to make this about Brexit is truly a sight to behold.
    I didn’t actually mention Brexit.
    Still, spooky coincidence, innit?
    Yellowhammer is unrelated to Brexit?
    And referenced no deal planning.
    Oh very well.

    I mean, I am merely noting the eerie coincidence that we are currently faced with the full bingo card of No Deal problems…”despite Brexit”.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    MrEd said:

    Not sure if this has been posted before but a bad approval poll for Biden in Iowa:

    https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/2021/09/21/president-joe-biden-job-approval-rating-plunges-after-afghanistan-covid-surge/8378224002/

    Those who think he is doing a good job now stands at 31% in Iowa. Trump's worst rating was 37% and Obama's 36%. Only Bush Jr was lower at 25%.

    The usual caveats about reading too much into one poll in one state apply but hard to see much in the way of positives for Biden in this.

    If polling is to be believed, Abbott will get chucked out from the Texas governorship in favour of Matthew McConaughey...
    https://thehill.com/homenews/the-memo/573113-the-memo-could-orourke-beat-abbott-to-become-governor-of-texas
    If McConaughey decides to stand. Not clear what he will do yet.

    Re Biden, take your pick but the trend line should worry him.
    FWIW, I don't believe either number has much significance.

    If McConaughey were actually to stand, his numbers would almost certainly take a hit.
    If Biden can get his legislative agenda through before the midterms, then he has a chance of reelection; if he can't then he's pretty well done.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098

    Biden affirms US will meet the 100 billion target sought by Boris at COP26

    Would it be too much of a stretch to say that Boris is clearly straining every sinew to save the planet?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited September 2021
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Optical Illusion Of Net Ratings

    "We asked a hundred people - "Who do you trust to buy a round for their friends in the pub, Boris Johnson or Sir Keir Starmer?" 42 said Boris, 24 Sir Keir, & the rest didn't know. They were asked who they thought would best organise a fun night out;. 42 said Boris, & 20 Sir Keir. In June 2020, another survey asked if the respondents thought either of the two "had personality" - Boris won by 34 points, 64 to 30. When asked again in September Boris increased his lead to 42, (67-25). The most recent Opinium poll asked whether the respondents found Boris or Sir Keir likeable - given that people would rather go for a night out with Boris, the choice they think has bags more personality of the two, it's not much of a surprise that he "got more likes" 43-38. So it would seem uncontroversial to say that Boris is the more likeable of the two men who want to be PM after the next GE. Unless...

    Unless, instead of basing the results on who people actually like, you decided to ask who they disliked as well, and subtracted one from the other. Using this method, Sir Keir suddenly becomes more likeable than the more liked Boris, braver than the man more people consider brave of the two, and a stronger leader than the leader he trails in terms of people's judgement of who is strong. (Opinium March 2020)"

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-optical-illusion-of-net-ratings.html

    Or the optical illusion of gross ratings. Aren't both valid and it's a question of which is the better steer for votes come elections?
    Don't undermine Isam's PhD thesis on Prime Ministerial candidate charisma quotients. Granted it is short on objectivity and long on subjectivity, but he is nonetheless very proud of it.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    Pulpstar said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    Are we still clearing the unvaccinated to the infected pool, or is previous infection so high that the 31,564 cases aren't disproportionately amongst the unvaccinated any more. That's the real question.

    WHO is catching the virus.
    In some ways we are actually getting a lot of data every day, but there are clearly gaps. I would love to know the vaccination status of the daily cases.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    One aspect of the NHS which is (for now at least) truly world class.

    *Making trials part of good clinical care*
    Many have asked about secrets to the success of the RECOVERY trial.
    What were the magic ingredients?
    What are the lessons for the future?
    This paper describes our approach - and sets out the actions needed:

    https://twitter.com/MartinLandray/status/1438417507044499463
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited September 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    Are we still clearing the unvaccinated to the infected pool, or is previous infection so high that the 31,564 cases aren't disproportionately amongst the unvaccinated any more. That's the real question.
    Only the government really know what proportion of this is unvaccinated, vaccine break-throughs or even reinfections. The uptick could be schools, could be students going back to uni, could be something and nothing.

    The only take-away I make at the moment is 20-30k cases a day looks like the rough background level of COVID and that isn't going to disappear anytime soon.
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    Good. I said long before the Brexit vote we didn't want a trade deal with the US. Why would we when we already have a big trade surplus with them and any deal is bound to include arbitration terms that are weighted heavily in their favour?
    Some trade deals sound good but only work for those who don't understand the compromises a trade deal actually require.
    Are you, like Tyndall, from the Midlands by any chance?

    Mercantilism seems endemic there.
    Nope, but I'm very surprised someone on this doesn't know where I live as I drop it in often enough (it's Darlington if you don't know).
    Apologies.

    I tend only to remember biographical details of the posters who cheese me off the most.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    There won't be a trade deal with USA until the Republicans next win the Presidency. Lets hope they they pick a winner in 2024 (so not loser Donald)

    Good afternoon everyone! :D
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    Are these cases evenly spread around the country?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Remember “Yellowhammer”? Supposed worst case for No Deal planning.


    Hahaha your desperation to make this about Brexit is truly a sight to behold.
    I didn’t actually mention Brexit.
    Still, spooky coincidence, innit?
    Yellowhammer is unrelated to Brexit?
    And referenced no deal planning.
    Oh very well.

    I mean, I am merely noting the eerie coincidence that we are currently faced with the full bingo card of No Deal problems…”despite Brexit”.
    I've not commented on that situation at all, I personally am at the pessimistic end of predictions on Brexit related problems. I think its caused a lot of issues.

    But it's just plain silly and disengenuous to talk about a a Brexit plan, and no deal planning generally, then talk about not mentioning Brexit.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited September 2021
    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    We have seen before that there can be a bit of a time to really get the circulating kick started. Then you get the old exponential growth. Hence why so many people on the tw@tters get caught out time and time again saying only x cases, can't ever got to 10x.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    MrEd said:

    Not sure if this has been posted before but a bad approval poll for Biden in Iowa:

    https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/2021/09/21/president-joe-biden-job-approval-rating-plunges-after-afghanistan-covid-surge/8378224002/

    Those who think he is doing a good job now stands at 31% in Iowa. Trump's worst rating was 37% and Obama's 36%. Only Bush Jr was lower at 25%.

    The usual caveats about reading too much into one poll in one state apply but hard to see much in the way of positives for Biden in this.

    I read this - these grim tidings for Biden - from bottom up on my phone and so it wasn't until right at the end that I saw who the author was. And it was Mr Ed!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128

    MattW said:
    So what are you saying?
    That there are no shortages, or that picture editors are lazy?

    Cos if it’s the second, tell us something we don’t know.
    I'm saying it's real, but massively overblown.

    In particular it is the latest straw that FBPE types are clutching at.
  • I'm sure this has been mentioned but it's unfortunate we cant just extract the CO2 from the atmosphere as we have put so much extra into it and heated the planet as a result.
    Don't get me started on Direct Air Capture...

    Plant trees and they'll do it for us. They are even self-replicating.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    edited September 2021
    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    This makes sense. Looking at the map on the gov website I can see that here in the young and hip areas of North West Leeds down to the city centre (traditionally students and young professionals/couples, not as many families) the rates seem to be very low. Looking towards the other areas of the city, the areas where you'd expect to see secondary age schoolchildren appear to have pretty high rates above the national average.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    edited September 2021
    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Highest prevalence is indeed amongst 10 - 14 year olds. That's very encouraging, and means the unvaccinated are still being disproportionately cleared to the previously infected population which is long term bad news for viral growth.
  • MattW said:

    MattW said:
    So what are you saying?
    That there are no shortages, or that picture editors are lazy?

    Cos if it’s the second, tell us something we don’t know.
    I'm saying it's real, but massively overblown.

    In particular it is the latest straw that FBPE types are clutching at.
    Stop complaining, you won after all.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    There won't be a trade deal with USA until the Republicans next win the Presidency. Lets hope they they pick a winner in 2024 (so not loser Donald)

    Good afternoon everyone! :D
    Why do we need a trade deal with the USA? What benefits would it actually give the UK and at what cost?
  • MattW said:

    MattW said:
    So what are you saying?
    That there are no shortages, or that picture editors are lazy?

    Cos if it’s the second, tell us something we don’t know.
    I'm saying it's real, but massively overblown.

    In particular it is the latest straw that FBPE types are clutching at.
    FBPE types do over-react.

    But in the non-Twitter world there are food shortages.

    Brexiters have typically responded with one or more of the following.

    1. There are no shortages
    2. There are shortages, but they are nothing to do with Brexit
    3. There are shortages, but it’s good news because drivers will now earn £100k per annum.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Cases in England up by about 25% today compared to same day last week, But, looking at the age breakdown:

    5-9 rising (fast and from a reasonably high start)
    10-14 rising (fast and form a high start)

    0-4 falling (but very slowly)

    All other age brackets falling.

    If this continues, which I think it might in the short to medium term, we should still have falling hospitalisation and death.

    Eventually enough kids will have antibodies after having caught it, but we don't know when that will be or how many still need to catch it. I do remember a week or so ago, somebody on hear saying that in the 10-14 age group that 50% had antibody's back in may and 70% at the start of September, which do seem credible. I cant fined verification of these numbers anywhere so if you know where they came form I would love a link?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399


    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    For God's sake, why aren't we talking about trans rights?

    This site is unbelievable

    We could always talk about the exciting Canadian election result instead.
    It looks like the suburbs/exburbs of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver is where the Canadian Tories need to pick up seats as well as half-a-dozen or so in the Maritimes.

    They should adopt a 40:40 strategy for next time. 160 seats would be enough for them to govern.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Canadian_federal_election#/media/File:Canadian_Federal_Election_Cartogram_2021.svg
    This is true. They've got a big electoral problem though. By the next election they will have won 1 majority and 2 minorities, for a total of 9 years in power over 32.
    They tried shoring up their base in 2019.
    They tried running to the centre with policies virtually indistinguishable from the Liberals yesterday. To no discernible effect.
    They simply can't win when the Liberals have a credible leader. Even if that credible leader isn't very popular. Because the Liberals pull in tactical votes from the Left in the marginal seats.
    Am beginning to think they may be better going the Australian Lib/Nat or German CSU/CDU route.
    Run as Reform from Manitoba westwards. And as Progressive Cons from Ontario eastwards. With separate programmes, but not competing in each other's area. They couldn’t do worse.
  • eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    There won't be a trade deal with USA until the Republicans next win the Presidency. Lets hope they they pick a winner in 2024 (so not loser Donald)

    Good afternoon everyone! :D
    Why do we need a trade deal with the USA? What benefits would it actually give the UK and at what cost?
    We don’t know because unlike most every country, the govt won’t publish a trade strategy (for a US deal or any other).
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    Not sure if this has been posted before but a bad approval poll for Biden in Iowa:

    https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/2021/09/21/president-joe-biden-job-approval-rating-plunges-after-afghanistan-covid-surge/8378224002/

    Those who think he is doing a good job now stands at 31% in Iowa. Trump's worst rating was 37% and Obama's 36%. Only Bush Jr was lower at 25%.

    The usual caveats about reading too much into one poll in one state apply but hard to see much in the way of positives for Biden in this.

    I read this - these grim tidings for Biden - from bottom up on my phone and so it wasn't until right at the end that I saw who the author was. And it was Mr Ed!
    I know, it is amazing how you know who you can tell who the poster is just from what they say :)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    edited September 2021
    Apparently the Kenyans think 20 000 Nurses might be sent:

    https://nation.africa/kenya/news/kenya-to-send-20-000-nurses-to-the-uk-says-chelugui-3534726

    "The (Kenyan) government will get a percentage of the cash that Kenyan nurses will make in the UK following the deal made by President Uhuru Kenyatta and Prime Minister Boris Johnson in July."

    https://t.co/9DbxPyMDmd

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    There won't be a trade deal with USA until the Republicans next win the Presidency. Lets hope they they pick a winner in 2024 (so not loser Donald)

    Good afternoon everyone! :D
    Why do we need a trade deal with the USA? What benefits would it actually give the UK and at what cost?
    Well personally I don't think we do *need* a trade deal with USA but I was responding to Scott who was posting about us not getting a trade deal until 2022 at the earliest.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    edited September 2021
    BigRich said:

    Cases in England up by about 25% today compared to same day last week, But, looking at the age breakdown:

    5-9 rising (fast and from a reasonably high start)
    10-14 rising (fast and form a high start)

    0-4 falling (but very slowly)

    All other age brackets falling.

    If this continues, which I think it might in the short to medium term, we should still have falling hospitalisation and death.

    Eventually enough kids will have antibodies after having caught it, but we don't know when that will be or how many still need to catch it. I do remember a week or so ago, somebody on hear saying that in the 10-14 age group that 50% had antibody's back in may and 70% at the start of September, which do seem credible. I can't fined verification of these numbers anywhere so if you know where they came form I would love a link?

    No idea how anyone can tell, the ONS seroprevalence survey is only done with 16 year olds upward.
    Adam Finn mused on this I think, likely pulled numbers out of his arse to back up his err views.
  • MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I'm sure this has been mentioned but it's unfortunate we cant just extract the CO2 from the atmosphere as we have put so much extra into it and heated the planet as a result.
    There is a Japanese team working on doing this in a low cost manner, atmospheric CO2 trapping will become a key factor in reversing climate change 20-30 years from now.
    Trouble is that there's a hefty energy cost in trapping CO2 from the air- a lot of it because it's just so diffuse in the atmosphere. And that's one of those fundamental numbers that can't be squeezed by willpower or cleverness. David MacKay estimates that the power needed to remove CO2 from the air will be about the same as current electricity generation. It's possible (and it might be a mechanism to deal with intermittency) but it's a huge project.

    http://www.withouthotair.com/c31/page_240.shtml (especially the footnote for page 245)
    Hence the research into making it cost effective.

    The compressed air battery is an interesting concept because removing liquid CO2 would conceivably be a piece of piss given the different boiling points of atmospheric compounds. A technology like that could remove a pretty large amount of CO2 as a byproduct of energy storage from renewables.
    Not much use for CO2 capture in this location, I think, but a useful demonstration of the technology at scale.

    Highview Enlasa Developing 50MW/500MWh Liquid Air Energy Storage Facility in the Atacama Region of Chile
    https://highviewpower.com/news_announcement/highview-enlasa-developing-50mw-500mwh-liquid-air-energy-storage-facility-in-the-atacama-region-of-chile/
    Couple something like that with liquid CO2 extraction and you've got CO2 capture as a by product of energy storage. We don't just have to halt global warming, we need to start thinking about reversing it. Storing compressed CO2 underground in disused mines and oil wells does seem like a viable solution, if we're able to remove it from the atmosphere. It's putting the byproduct of fossil fuels back where they came from.
    Totally agree. Engineering got us into this and engineering will get us out of it.

    F**k the eco-socialists.
    Well I do the engineering nine til five and the eco-socialism the rest of the time.

    Do you want me to be f**ked or not?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    PM tells @bbclaurak in New York: "I don't believe people will be short of food - and wages are actually rising"

    But opposition parties warning of cost of living crisis; end of UC uplift, rising costs/inflation, tax rises coming.

    Many Tories worried too.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58641114
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    I'm sure this has been mentioned but it's unfortunate we cant just extract the CO2 from the atmosphere as we have put so much extra into it and heated the planet as a result.
    Don't get me started on Direct Air Capture...

    Plant trees and they'll do it for us. They are even self-replicating.
    Isn't the peak capture period of CO2 by trees 40+ years after they've been planted?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    Has Justin Trudeau resigned yet? :D
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Nigelb said:

    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    MrEd said:

    Not sure if this has been posted before but a bad approval poll for Biden in Iowa:

    https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/2021/09/21/president-joe-biden-job-approval-rating-plunges-after-afghanistan-covid-surge/8378224002/

    Those who think he is doing a good job now stands at 31% in Iowa. Trump's worst rating was 37% and Obama's 36%. Only Bush Jr was lower at 25%.

    The usual caveats about reading too much into one poll in one state apply but hard to see much in the way of positives for Biden in this.

    If polling is to be believed, Abbott will get chucked out from the Texas governorship in favour of Matthew McConaughey...
    https://thehill.com/homenews/the-memo/573113-the-memo-could-orourke-beat-abbott-to-become-governor-of-texas
    If McConaughey decides to stand. Not clear what he will do yet.

    Re Biden, take your pick but the trend line should worry him.
    FWIW, I don't believe either number has much significance.

    If McConaughey were actually to stand, his numbers would almost certainly take a hit.
    If Biden can get his legislative agenda through before the midterms, then he has a chance of reelection; if he can't then he's pretty well done.
    There is no doubt Biden is in a rut at the moment and it may well be that things turn pretty quickly for him. As you said, he gets his agenda through, he looks more capable a President etc. A good set of results in the Governor elections, especially in Virginia, would also help.

    A few of the issues look more intractable though. Immigration is a key one, inflation is another. His Administration should probably be blamed more for the former not latter (many of the drivers of inflation are outside its control) but they will be. At this stage, you would say the Democrats will lose the House and its a toss-up with the Senate.
  • MattW said:

    MattW said:
    So what are you saying?
    That there are no shortages, or that picture editors are lazy?

    Cos if it’s the second, tell us something we don’t know.
    I'm saying it's real, but massively overblown.

    In particular it is the latest straw that FBPE types are clutching at.
    There were absolutely no shortages whatsoever in Aldi earlier. Stock photos of empty shelves as "news" is just silly.

    But lo and behold if someone claims they can't get bottled water in Waitrose on Twitter.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    GIN1138 said:

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    There won't be a trade deal with USA until the Republicans next win the Presidency. Lets hope they they pick a winner in 2024 (so not loser Donald)

    Good afternoon everyone! :D
    Why do we need a trade deal with the USA? What benefits would it actually give the UK and at what cost?
    Well personally I don't think we do *need* a trade deal with USA but I was responding to Scott who was posting about us not getting a trade deal until 2022 at the earliest.
    Yet you quote the Republicans will want one when Trump was avoided trade deals throughout his Presidency because he doesn't understand the value of mutual benefits and trade offs..
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    There won't be a trade deal with USA until the Republicans next win the Presidency. Lets hope they they pick a winner in 2024 (so not loser Donald)

    Good afternoon everyone! :D
    Why do we need a trade deal with the USA? What benefits would it actually give the UK and at what cost?
    We don’t know because unlike most every country, the govt won’t publish a trade strategy (for a US deal or any other).
    Surely the lack of obvious benefits tells you everything you need to know....
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    RobD said:

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    There won't be a trade deal with USA until the Republicans next win the Presidency. Lets hope they they pick a winner in 2024 (so not loser Donald)

    Good afternoon everyone! :D
    Why do we need a trade deal with the USA? What benefits would it actually give the UK and at what cost?
    We don’t know because unlike most every country, the govt won’t publish a trade strategy (for a US deal or any other).
    There's a 184 page document on the US negotiatons here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-uks-approach-to-trade-negotiations-with-the-us
    LOL! :D
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    MattW said:

    MattW said:
    So what are you saying?
    That there are no shortages, or that picture editors are lazy?

    Cos if it’s the second, tell us something we don’t know.
    I'm saying it's real, but massively overblown.

    In particular it is the latest straw that FBPE types are clutching at.
    There were absolutely no shortages whatsoever in Aldi earlier. Stock photos of empty shelves as "news" is just silly.

    But lo and behold if someone claims they can't get bottled water in Waitrose on Twitter.
    Does the tweet result in celebrations in the street regarding the reduced use of plastic packaging for stupid items?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Foxy said:

    Apparently the Kenyans think 20 000 Nurses might be sent:

    https://nation.africa/kenya/news/kenya-to-send-20-000-nurses-to-the-uk-says-chelugui-3534726

    "The (Kenyan) government will get a percentage of the cash that Kenyan nurses will make in the UK following the deal made by President Uhuru Kenyatta and Prime Minister Boris Johnson in July."

    https://t.co/9DbxPyMDmd

    I may be barking up the wrong tree here, however this feels so wrong on so many levels for me. Two of which are a) Do the Kenyans not need nurses? and b) my experience of payments to the Kenyan government often meant payments directly or indirectly to officials from the Kenyan government.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    GIN1138 said:

    Has Justin Trudeau resigned yet? :D

    I'd give it approximately 4 years at least.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Highest prevalence is indeed amongst 10 - 14 year olds. That's very encouraging, and means the unvaccinated are still being disproportionately cleared to the previously infected population which is long term bad news for viral growth.
    Yes, youngsters catching the virus would appear to be the equivalent of Chicken Pox parties.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    eek said:

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    There won't be a trade deal with USA until the Republicans next win the Presidency. Lets hope they they pick a winner in 2024 (so not loser Donald)

    Good afternoon everyone! :D
    Why do we need a trade deal with the USA? What benefits would it actually give the UK and at what cost?
    We don’t know because unlike most every country, the govt won’t publish a trade strategy (for a US deal or any other).
    Surely the lack of obvious benefits tells you everything you need to know....
    There's a 184 page document apparently!

    Off to ConHome for three weeks with you! :D
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    BigRich said:

    Cases in England up by about 25% today compared to same day last week, But, looking at the age breakdown:

    5-9 rising (fast and from a reasonably high start)
    10-14 rising (fast and form a high start)

    0-4 falling (but very slowly)

    All other age brackets falling.

    If this continues, which I think it might in the short to medium term, we should still have falling hospitalisation and death.

    Eventually enough kids will have antibodies after having caught it, but we don't know when that will be or how many still need to catch it. I do remember a week or so ago, somebody on hear saying that in the 10-14 age group that 50% had antibody's back in may and 70% at the start of September, which do seem credible. I cant fined verification of these numbers anywhere so if you know where they came form I would love a link?

    Yesterdays numbers (generating a new set now)

    image
  • MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I'm sure this has been mentioned but it's unfortunate we cant just extract the CO2 from the atmosphere as we have put so much extra into it and heated the planet as a result.
    There is a Japanese team working on doing this in a low cost manner, atmospheric CO2 trapping will become a key factor in reversing climate change 20-30 years from now.
    Trouble is that there's a hefty energy cost in trapping CO2 from the air- a lot of it because it's just so diffuse in the atmosphere. And that's one of those fundamental numbers that can't be squeezed by willpower or cleverness. David MacKay estimates that the power needed to remove CO2 from the air will be about the same as current electricity generation. It's possible (and it might be a mechanism to deal with intermittency) but it's a huge project.

    http://www.withouthotair.com/c31/page_240.shtml (especially the footnote for page 245)
    Hence the research into making it cost effective.

    The compressed air battery is an interesting concept because removing liquid CO2 would conceivably be a piece of piss given the different boiling points of atmospheric compounds. A technology like that could remove a pretty large amount of CO2 as a byproduct of energy storage from renewables.
    Not much use for CO2 capture in this location, I think, but a useful demonstration of the technology at scale.

    Highview Enlasa Developing 50MW/500MWh Liquid Air Energy Storage Facility in the Atacama Region of Chile
    https://highviewpower.com/news_announcement/highview-enlasa-developing-50mw-500mwh-liquid-air-energy-storage-facility-in-the-atacama-region-of-chile/
    Couple something like that with liquid CO2 extraction and you've got CO2 capture as a by product of energy storage. We don't just have to halt global warming, we need to start thinking about reversing it. Storing compressed CO2 underground in disused mines and oil wells does seem like a viable solution, if we're able to remove it from the atmosphere. It's putting the byproduct of fossil fuels back where they came from.
    Totally agree. Engineering got us into this and engineering will get us out of it.

    F**k the eco-socialists.
    Well I do the engineering nine til five and the eco-socialism the rest of the time.

    Do you want me to be f**ked or not?
    Maybe you can just be f**ked outside of working hours :)
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    dixiedean said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Has Justin Trudeau resigned yet? :D

    I'd give it approximately 4 years at least.
    He called a vanity election in the middle of a pandemic, explicitly to secure a majority and blew it!

    He'll be gone in 18 months. ;)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399

    MattW said:

    MattW said:
    So what are you saying?
    That there are no shortages, or that picture editors are lazy?

    Cos if it’s the second, tell us something we don’t know.
    I'm saying it's real, but massively overblown.

    In particular it is the latest straw that FBPE types are clutching at.
    There were absolutely no shortages whatsoever in Aldi earlier. Stock photos of empty shelves as "news" is just silly.

    But lo and behold if someone claims they can't get bottled water in Waitrose on Twitter.
    So is your position that there are no shortages?
    If so, how do you explain the "We apologise for the shortages" posters in the windows of shops?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    It happened when they went back - the effect was masked by the collapse in the 15-19 numbers. Which is probably caused by vaccination of 16-upwards....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627

    MattW said:

    MattW said:
    So what are you saying?
    That there are no shortages, or that picture editors are lazy?

    Cos if it’s the second, tell us something we don’t know.
    I'm saying it's real, but massively overblown.

    In particular it is the latest straw that FBPE types are clutching at.
    There were absolutely no shortages whatsoever in Aldi earlier. Stock photos of empty shelves as "news" is just silly.

    But lo and behold if someone claims they can't get bottled water in Waitrose on Twitter.
    I haven't seen much in the way of shortages. What I do notice though is how quickly produce is going off. The farm to fork time seems to have stretched rather a lot, giving little time for domestic storage.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    GIN1138 said:

    dixiedean said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Has Justin Trudeau resigned yet? :D

    I'd give it approximately 4 years at least.
    He called a vanity election in the middle of a pandemic, explicitly to secure a majority and blew it!

    He'll be gone in 18 months. ;)
    How?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    The southern half of the Midlands is basically a giant commuting area for London. The idea it's a uniquely insular part of the country is silly.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    The Optical Illusion Of Net Ratings

    "We asked a hundred people - "Who do you trust to buy a round for their friends in the pub, Boris Johnson or Sir Keir Starmer?" 42 said Boris, 24 Sir Keir, & the rest didn't know. They were asked who they thought would best organise a fun night out;. 42 said Boris, & 20 Sir Keir. In June 2020, another survey asked if the respondents thought either of the two "had personality" - Boris won by 34 points, 64 to 30. When asked again in September Boris increased his lead to 42, (67-25). The most recent Opinium poll asked whether the respondents found Boris or Sir Keir likeable - given that people would rather go for a night out with Boris, the choice they think has bags more personality of the two, it's not much of a surprise that he "got more likes" 43-38. So it would seem uncontroversial to say that Boris is the more likeable of the two men who want to be PM after the next GE. Unless...

    Unless, instead of basing the results on who people actually like, you decided to ask who they disliked as well, and subtracted one from the other. Using this method, Sir Keir suddenly becomes more likeable than the more liked Boris, braver than the man more people consider brave of the two, and a stronger leader than the leader he trails in terms of people's judgement of who is strong. (Opinium March 2020)"

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-optical-illusion-of-net-ratings.html

    @isam There has been some movement in Net approval from Corbyn to Starmer, but it's modest () is the traditional measure

    NET: Approve (Johnson) 35% (-13%)
    NET: Approve (Starmer) 30% (-6%)

    10th December poll

    NET Approve Johnson 33% (-11%)
    NET Approve Corbyn 24% (-30%)

    Johnson +ve Approve gap over Corbyn 9%
    Johnson traditional gap over Corbyn 19%

    Johnson +ve Approve gap over Starmer 5%
    Starmer traditional gap over Johnson 7%
    And bear in mind Opinium are, I think, the only pollsters where Sir Keir leads in net ratings. Boris leads in all the others, and all including Opinium on, what I consider to be more important, Gross Positives.
  • MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I'm sure this has been mentioned but it's unfortunate we cant just extract the CO2 from the atmosphere as we have put so much extra into it and heated the planet as a result.
    There is a Japanese team working on doing this in a low cost manner, atmospheric CO2 trapping will become a key factor in reversing climate change 20-30 years from now.
    Trouble is that there's a hefty energy cost in trapping CO2 from the air- a lot of it because it's just so diffuse in the atmosphere. And that's one of those fundamental numbers that can't be squeezed by willpower or cleverness. David MacKay estimates that the power needed to remove CO2 from the air will be about the same as current electricity generation. It's possible (and it might be a mechanism to deal with intermittency) but it's a huge project.

    http://www.withouthotair.com/c31/page_240.shtml (especially the footnote for page 245)
    Hence the research into making it cost effective.

    The compressed air battery is an interesting concept because removing liquid CO2 would conceivably be a piece of piss given the different boiling points of atmospheric compounds. A technology like that could remove a pretty large amount of CO2 as a byproduct of energy storage from renewables.
    Not much use for CO2 capture in this location, I think, but a useful demonstration of the technology at scale.

    Highview Enlasa Developing 50MW/500MWh Liquid Air Energy Storage Facility in the Atacama Region of Chile
    https://highviewpower.com/news_announcement/highview-enlasa-developing-50mw-500mwh-liquid-air-energy-storage-facility-in-the-atacama-region-of-chile/
    Couple something like that with liquid CO2 extraction and you've got CO2 capture as a by product of energy storage. We don't just have to halt global warming, we need to start thinking about reversing it. Storing compressed CO2 underground in disused mines and oil wells does seem like a viable solution, if we're able to remove it from the atmosphere. It's putting the byproduct of fossil fuels back where they came from.
    Totally agree. Engineering got us into this and engineering will get us out of it.

    F**k the eco-socialists.
    Well I do the engineering nine til five and the eco-socialism the rest of the time.

    Do you want me to be f**ked or not?
    Well, since you want the human race to be extinct then it sounds like not?
  • RobD said:

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    There won't be a trade deal with USA until the Republicans next win the Presidency. Lets hope they they pick a winner in 2024 (so not loser Donald)

    Good afternoon everyone! :D
    Why do we need a trade deal with the USA? What benefits would it actually give the UK and at what cost?
    We don’t know because unlike most every country, the govt won’t publish a trade strategy (for a US deal or any other).
    There's a 184 page document on the US negotiatons here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-uks-approach-to-trade-negotiations-with-the-us
    I stand corrected. ☺️
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    Good. I said long before the Brexit vote we didn't want a trade deal with the US. Why would we when we already have a big trade surplus with them and any deal is bound to include arbitration terms that are weighted heavily in their favour?
    Some trade deals sound good but only work for those who don't understand the compromises a trade deal actually require.
    Are you, like Tyndall, from the Midlands by any chance?

    Mercantilism seems endemic there.
    I was born and raised in the Midlands
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Not sure of exact numbers but none are serious. Think all are either asymptomatic or sniffly. So, sounds very similar and probably being repeated up and down the land.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    Good. I said long before the Brexit vote we didn't want a trade deal with the US. Why would we when we already have a big trade surplus with them and any deal is bound to include arbitration terms that are weighted heavily in their favour?
    Some trade deals sound good but only work for those who don't understand the compromises a trade deal actually require.
    Are you, like Tyndall, from the Midlands by any chance?

    Mercantilism seems endemic there.
    I was born and raised in the Midlands
    Which bit ?

    And how did you become a Newcastle fan :D ?!
  • eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    Good. I said long before the Brexit vote we didn't want a trade deal with the US. Why would we when we already have a big trade surplus with them and any deal is bound to include arbitration terms that are weighted heavily in their favour?
    Some trade deals sound good but only work for those who don't understand the compromises a trade deal actually require.
    Are you, like Tyndall, from the Midlands by any chance?

    Mercantilism seems endemic there.
    I was born and raised in the Midlands
    Then, sanely, you left.

    Progressives aren’t wanted there.
  • Foxy said:

    Apparently the Kenyans think 20 000 Nurses might be sent:

    https://nation.africa/kenya/news/kenya-to-send-20-000-nurses-to-the-uk-says-chelugui-3534726

    "The (Kenyan) government will get a percentage of the cash that Kenyan nurses will make in the UK following the deal made by President Uhuru Kenyatta and Prime Minister Boris Johnson in July."

    https://t.co/9DbxPyMDmd

    Me. Prime Minister Boris Johnson. Here. In a nurses' dormitory. With my reputation. What were they thinking?
  • Andy_JS said:

    The southern half of the Midlands is basically a giant commuting area for London. The idea it's a uniquely insular part of the country is silly.

    The southern part refuses to accept they are in the Midlands!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    Andy_JS said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    Are these cases evenly spread around the country?
    No, they rarely are. It's the nature of these things that they are clumpy - an outbreak here, and outbreak there. But nor is it the case that we can say 'it's only a problem in area X'.

    More interestingly, they are highly unevenly spread throughout the age groups. Vaccinated age groups are continuing to see falls; the increase is in the unvaccinated age groups (the under 18s).
    Also a slight rise in the age group which corresponds to parents of school age children.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Friend's son said it was like "mild hayfever". Another friend has a daugther with eight apparently off. Nephew who had it (at uni now) couldn't distinguish it from a hangover.

    Not seeing a huge increase in under 16s in hospital and very much hope I won't.
  • eek said:

    I'm sure this has been mentioned but it's unfortunate we cant just extract the CO2 from the atmosphere as we have put so much extra into it and heated the planet as a result.
    Don't get me started on Direct Air Capture...

    Plant trees and they'll do it for us. They are even self-replicating.
    Isn't the peak capture period of CO2 by trees 40+ years after they've been planted?
    And then a while later they die, decompose and the carbon they absorbed is released back to the atmosphere.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    Good. I said long before the Brexit vote we didn't want a trade deal with the US. Why would we when we already have a big trade surplus with them and any deal is bound to include arbitration terms that are weighted heavily in their favour?
    Some trade deals sound good but only work for those who don't understand the compromises a trade deal actually require.
    Are you, like Tyndall, from the Midlands by any chance?

    Mercantilism seems endemic there.
    I was born and raised in the Midlands
    Which bit ?

    And how did you become a Newcastle fan :D ?!
    Solihull - but I’ve lived on Tyneside for 11 years.

    My Dad is from Northumberland so didn’t give me a choice, unfortunately.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627

    Foxy said:

    Apparently the Kenyans think 20 000 Nurses might be sent:

    https://nation.africa/kenya/news/kenya-to-send-20-000-nurses-to-the-uk-says-chelugui-3534726

    "The (Kenyan) government will get a percentage of the cash that Kenyan nurses will make in the UK following the deal made by President Uhuru Kenyatta and Prime Minister Boris Johnson in July."

    https://t.co/9DbxPyMDmd

    I may be barking up the wrong tree here, however this feels so wrong on so many levels for me. Two of which are a) Do the Kenyans not need nurses? and b) my experience of payments to the Kenyan government often meant payments directly or indirectly to officials from the Kenyan government.
    Both very valid points.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789
    Wonder what the 18+ rate is vs under 18s. The government dashboard could be so much better than it actually is.
  • eek said:

    I'm sure this has been mentioned but it's unfortunate we cant just extract the CO2 from the atmosphere as we have put so much extra into it and heated the planet as a result.
    Don't get me started on Direct Air Capture...

    Plant trees and they'll do it for us. They are even self-replicating.
    Isn't the peak capture period of CO2 by trees 40+ years after they've been planted?
    You've sussed why chopping down trees to use as power station fuel and replacing them with saplings isn't such a grand idea. By the time the new trees have sucked the CO2 back out of the atmosphere that had been locked up in the old trees the climate will already be fecked.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174

    eek said:

    I'm sure this has been mentioned but it's unfortunate we cant just extract the CO2 from the atmosphere as we have put so much extra into it and heated the planet as a result.
    Don't get me started on Direct Air Capture...

    Plant trees and they'll do it for us. They are even self-replicating.
    Isn't the peak capture period of CO2 by trees 40+ years after they've been planted?
    And then a while later they die, decompose and the carbon they absorbed is released back to the atmosphere.
    Doesn't the carbon stay in the ground ?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    Good. I said long before the Brexit vote we didn't want a trade deal with the US. Why would we when we already have a big trade surplus with them and any deal is bound to include arbitration terms that are weighted heavily in their favour?
    Some trade deals sound good but only work for those who don't understand the compromises a trade deal actually require.
    Are you, like Tyndall, from the Midlands by any chance?

    Mercantilism seems endemic there.
    I was born and raised in the Midlands
    Which bit ?

    And how did you become a Newcastle fan :D ?!
    Solihull - but I’ve lived on Tyneside for 11 years.

    My Dad is from Northumberland so didn’t give me a choice, unfortunately.
    Could be way worse - he might have come from Sunderland.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Personally, I think we should scale down the mass testing of asymmetric kids, or maybe stop it all together. at this stage what is it achieving? kids are going to go on catching it, until, they have all (or nearly all) had it and we reach 'heard immunity' in kids. very few will get serially ill, but the mass testing and isolation only drags that out over a longer time, it does not stop it or significantly reduce the total number.

    Kids have had there education messed up enough over the last 19 months, taking an entirely aysumetomat kid out of school for yet another 2 weeks is not helping that. and again why is it better to drag this out for longer than needed.

    Yes, some times an adult, possibly an elderly or venerable adult will catch it form a kid, but that does not change by dragging it out over a longer pried, and given that we know the effectives of the vaccine wares off a bit over time, shorly it would be better to have that now, rather than in a few months time when the vaccines will have warn off even more.

    Also, I don't think that the testing is that expensive, but its not free and we have spend so much over the last 19 months, any saving now would be much apricated, as we look at tax rises, and speeding cuts.
  • eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    Good. I said long before the Brexit vote we didn't want a trade deal with the US. Why would we when we already have a big trade surplus with them and any deal is bound to include arbitration terms that are weighted heavily in their favour?
    Some trade deals sound good but only work for those who don't understand the compromises a trade deal actually require.
    Are you, like Tyndall, from the Midlands by any chance?

    Mercantilism seems endemic there.
    I was born and raised in the Midlands
    I was born in Essex.
  • eek said:

    I'm sure this has been mentioned but it's unfortunate we cant just extract the CO2 from the atmosphere as we have put so much extra into it and heated the planet as a result.
    Don't get me started on Direct Air Capture...

    Plant trees and they'll do it for us. They are even self-replicating.
    Isn't the peak capture period of CO2 by trees 40+ years after they've been planted?
    And then a while later they die, decompose and the carbon they absorbed is released back to the atmosphere.
    A healthy forest is a net absorber of CO2.

    Also, timber used for construction keeps the carbon locked up for a long, long time.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    MaxPB said:

    Wonder what the 18+ rate is vs under 18s. The government dashboard could be so much better than it actually is.

    not sure what you mean, but on the dashboard for England cases, there is a breakdown by 5 year age braked:

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases?areaType=nation&areaName=England
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    edited September 2021
    BigRich said:

    Cases in England up by about 25% today compared to same day last week, But, looking at the age breakdown:

    5-9 rising (fast and from a reasonably high start)
    10-14 rising (fast and form a high start)

    0-4 falling (but very slowly)

    All other age brackets falling.

    If this continues, which I think it might in the short to medium term, we should still have falling hospitalisation and death.

    Eventually enough kids will have antibodies after having caught it, but we don't know when that will be or how many still need to catch it. I do remember a week or so ago, somebody on hear saying that in the 10-14 age group that 50% had antibody's back in may and 70% at the start of September, which do seem credible. I cant fined verification of these numbers anywhere so if you know where they came form I would love a link?

    Generally kids don't get it too badly, but my concern would be that this was very much how last autumn's wave started. Initially the young, then their parents and grandparents. Obviously vaccination will alter the pattern somewhat, but there are 5 million unvaccinated adults and a considerable number of breakthrough cases in the vaccinated.

    How will it work out? Its all a guessing game at present but my hunch is that we will bump along at the sort of rates of cases, admissions and deaths that we have seen for the last 2 months for most of the rest of the year, and perhaps into next.

    It will be a major drag on hospital activity, both in terms of waiting lists and emergency depts like Mr @Cyclefree last week.

  • Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One clear reality emerging from this US trip - the UK isn’t getting a trade deal any time soon.

    Talks aren’t happening. UK privately accepts no deal pre-2022 midterms (when Dems could lose Senate)

    PM today didn’t even say we’d have one by 2024 election…8yrs after Brexit vote.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1440324084290654224

    Good. I said long before the Brexit vote we didn't want a trade deal with the US. Why would we when we already have a big trade surplus with them and any deal is bound to include arbitration terms that are weighted heavily in their favour?
    Some trade deals sound good but only work for those who don't understand the compromises a trade deal actually require.
    Are you, like Tyndall, from the Midlands by any chance?

    Mercantilism seems endemic there.
    I was born and raised in the Midlands
    Which bit ?

    And how did you become a Newcastle fan :D ?!
    Solihull - but I’ve lived on Tyneside for 11 years.

    My Dad is from Northumberland so didn’t give me a choice, unfortunately.
    When I worked in Solihull a Geordie colleague insisted on moving back north when his wife became pregnant. He couldn't bear the idea that their child would develop a Brummie accent!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773

    Andy_JS said:

    The southern half of the Midlands is basically a giant commuting area for London. The idea it's a uniquely insular part of the country is silly.

    The southern part refuses to accept they are in the Midlands!
    A friend of mine used to use the phrase 'a bit Northamptonshire' for something which was neither one thing nor the other; or a bit vague and indecisive.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    edited September 2021
    BigRich said:

    AlistairM said:

    31,564 cases, 203 deaths.

    5k up in England again week on week (~15-20%). Starting to look like a little bit of a hint of a pattern, 3 days on the bounce now.

    It's definitely a pattern. It is the Under 16 school kids which are driving it.



    If they are not spreading it to others then that is fine. These infections are giving the kids great immunity with the 12+ receiving their vaccine boosters soon.

    Half my daughter's Y8 class is out this week with Covid having picked it up from one girl last week. I suspect the rest, including my daughter, already had immunity from previous infection. Probably happening across the country. Only question from me is why it didn't happen when they first went back? Why the delay?
    Is there anything wrong with them? My son's friends who have had it (Year 7) have had a sniffle at worst. Most of them were entirely asymptomatic and only knew because the school insisted everyone be tested.
    Personally, I think we should scale down the mass testing of asymmetric kids, or maybe stop it all together. at this stage what is it achieving? kids are going to go on catching it, until, they have all (or nearly all) had it and we reach 'heard immunity' in kids. very few will get serially ill, but the mass testing and isolation only drags that out over a longer time, it does not stop it or significantly reduce the total number.

    Kids have had there education messed up enough over the last 19 months, taking an entirely aysumetomat kid out of school for yet another 2 weeks is not helping that. and again why is it better to drag this out for longer than needed.

    Yes, some times an adult, possibly an elderly or venerable adult will catch it form a kid, but that does not change by dragging it out over a longer pried, and given that we know the effectives of the vaccine wares off a bit over time, shorly it would be better to have that now, rather than in a few months time when the vaccines will have warn off even more.

    Also, I don't think that the testing is that expensive, but its not free and we have spend so much over the last 19 months, any saving now would be much apricated, as we look at tax rises, and speeding cuts.
    I think testing is a good idea to see where the virus is spreading, and pick up a true count of prevalence. I think you can make an argument to not take action on asymptomatic +ve tests in school children to be perfectly honest.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2021
    isam said:

    The Optical Illusion Of Net Ratings

    "We asked a hundred people - "Who do you trust to buy a round for their friends in the pub, Boris Johnson or Sir Keir Starmer?" 42 said Boris, 24 Sir Keir, & the rest didn't know. They were asked who they thought would best organise a fun night out;. 42 said Boris, & 20 Sir Keir. In June 2020, another survey asked if the respondents thought either of the two "had personality" - Boris won by 34 points, 64 to 30. When asked again in September Boris increased his lead to 42, (67-25). The most recent Opinium poll asked whether the respondents found Boris or Sir Keir likeable - given that people would rather go for a night out with Boris, the choice they think has bags more personality of the two, it's not much of a surprise that he "got more likes" 43-38. So it would seem uncontroversial to say that Boris is the more likeable of the two men who want to be PM after the next GE. Unless...

    Unless, instead of basing the results on who people actually like, you decided to ask who they disliked as well, and subtracted one from the other. Using this method, Sir Keir suddenly becomes more likeable than the more liked Boris, braver than the man more people consider brave of the two, and a stronger leader than the leader he trails in terms of people's judgement of who is strong. (Opinium March 2020)"

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-optical-illusion-of-net-ratings.html

    In any case, in the latest polls taken by each pollster, the one highlighted in the header is unique in having Sir Keir in the lead, either in terms of net ratings or Gross Positives

    Boris, on average, leads by 9.4 in terms of Gross Positives, and 5.3 on net satisfaction.


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Do they have a surplus of nurses in Kenya? You'd think they would need 20,000 nurses to stay in the country, but I don't know.

    https://allafrica.com/stories/202109020463.html

    "Kenya will send 20,000 nurses to the United Kingdom as it seeks to improve the welfare of its migrant workers abroad. Labour and Social Protection Cabinet Secretary Simon Chelugui said the government has embarked on exporting highly skilled healthcare workers and professionals abroad.

    On July 29, Kenya and the UK signed a pact that is expected to benefit unemployed medics. Mr Chelugui disclosed that the two governments had agreed to send 20,000 nurses to the UK to address a shortage of 62,000 in that country. The CS said the UK government has also committed to building the capacity of Kenya's medical training colleges and universities to train more nurses. Some 894 Kenyan nurses work in Britain's public healthcare system, the National Health Service."
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    isam said:

    isam said:

    The Optical Illusion Of Net Ratings

    "We asked a hundred people - "Who do you trust to buy a round for their friends in the pub, Boris Johnson or Sir Keir Starmer?" 42 said Boris, 24 Sir Keir, & the rest didn't know. They were asked who they thought would best organise a fun night out;. 42 said Boris, & 20 Sir Keir. In June 2020, another survey asked if the respondents thought either of the two "had personality" - Boris won by 34 points, 64 to 30. When asked again in September Boris increased his lead to 42, (67-25). The most recent Opinium poll asked whether the respondents found Boris or Sir Keir likeable - given that people would rather go for a night out with Boris, the choice they think has bags more personality of the two, it's not much of a surprise that he "got more likes" 43-38. So it would seem uncontroversial to say that Boris is the more likeable of the two men who want to be PM after the next GE. Unless...

    Unless, instead of basing the results on who people actually like, you decided to ask who they disliked as well, and subtracted one from the other. Using this method, Sir Keir suddenly becomes more likeable than the more liked Boris, braver than the man more people consider brave of the two, and a stronger leader than the leader he trails in terms of people's judgement of who is strong. (Opinium March 2020)"

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-optical-illusion-of-net-ratings.html

    In any case, in the latest polls taken by each pollster, the one highlighted in the header is unique in having Sir Keir in the lead, either in terms of net ratings or Gross Positives


    Boris Boris Lead Sir Keir
    GP Net GP Net GP Net
    Averages 36.3 -8.4 9.4 5.3 26.9 -13.7
    Opinium 35 -13 5 -7 30 -6
    Panelbase 33 -9 10 7 23 -16
    Survation 38 -6 9 3 29 -9
    R&W 38 -4 14 14 24 -18
    IPSOS 28 -18 8 6 20 -24
    Delta 47 -2 11 11 36 -13
    ComRes 35 -7 9 3 26 -10

This discussion has been closed.