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All polls now have CON leads: LAB’s brief moment in the Sun is over – politicalbetting.com

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited September 2021
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Totally unacceptable that this should happen to Labour MP for Canterbury Rosie Duffield.

    "Speaker steps in over online threats to female Labour MP Rosie Duffield
    Fear forces Rosie Duffield to miss conference"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/speaker-steps-in-over-online-threats-to-female-labour-mp-jnhbrcgv5

    Sadly it is behind a firewall so I can't see who these morons are. Can anyone enlighten me. Not that it really matters I suppose. It shouldn't happen no matter who is doing it.
    Trans activists and anti-semites, it says. Is she even Jewish?

    Lefty politics are a sewer, right now
    Peep show bloke, Robert Webb, was getting the same treatment this evening on twitter, all because he once said he agreed with an article that was critical of Mermaids....as far as i know, in every other regard he is about as left leaning liberal type as you get...but no he is now supposed to be a massive bigotted homophobe transphobe every ist under the sun, who shouldn't.be allowed on the BBC dancey program.
  • I've no idea why the French recalled their Australian and American ambassadors, and not the British one, but I would have expected that the spirit of the AUKUS alliance would be served by us expelling the French Ambassador, so that we are reduced to the same pitiable state of lacking a French Ambassador as our fellow AUKUS alliance mates.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,206

    Why are all these small energy companies going bust?

    Have not hedged on wholesale energy prices. Now paying a load more than they are selling it for. Never a position of strength.
    That's the short term issue for the small suppliers. I think there is also some worry for those who have hedged about the security of some of the counterparties - someone somewhere will be taking some really unpleasant hits.

    The big picture issue is that electricity is about to be very expensive. A combination of bad luck, a high gas price and still weather means that both average and spot prices are hitting levels that are pretty much unheard-of.
    The spot price probably isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things (it's kind of how the system is designed to work), but the high average price is very bad news.

    The causes of this are mostly related to the moronic way we did a dash for renewables and have closed all the old coal baseload, resulting in a grid with barely adequate cover for periods of prolonged calm.
    Part of the problem is that we've pretty much refused to build nuclear baseload capacity, perfering to import it from French nukes instead (all good until they also have a capacity squeeze, or an interconnector or two goes down).

    Having switched from coal to gas for the bulk of our dispatchable electricity production, not then fracking for our own gas is an act of near criminal negligence.

    We are getting quite close to running out of generation capacity - it wouldn't take many more "black swan" events for the grid to have to start "load shedding". We've no serious plans to increase dispatchable generation capacity, and the government is hellbent on electrification of transport and space heating.

    What could possibly go wrong?

    Incidentally, if does go badly wrong, and we have a winter of blackouts or worse I'd expect it to bring down the government, and probably write off the "green agenda" "net zero" etc in the UK for good.



  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited September 2021
    I imagine the same scene at chez Macron as out of Silicon Valley when Gavin Belson gets sacked from Hooli....
  • Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Totally unacceptable that this should happen to Labour MP for Canterbury Rosie Duffield.

    "Speaker steps in over online threats to female Labour MP Rosie Duffield
    Fear forces Rosie Duffield to miss conference"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/speaker-steps-in-over-online-threats-to-female-labour-mp-jnhbrcgv5

    Sadly it is behind a firewall so I can't see who these morons are. Can anyone enlighten me. Not that it really matters I suppose. It shouldn't happen no matter who is doing it.
    Trans activists and anti-semites, it says. Is she even Jewish?

    Lefty politics are a sewer, right now
    Just now?

    It seems for as long as I can remember (and probably much longer) that lefty politics has had a sewer with Palestine and A N Other setting the agenda.

    The issue with Starmer is he's completely devoid of character, personality or policies so all you see is the sewer.
  • It feels like France's entire foreign policy is collapsing.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    It feels like France's entire foreign policy is collapsing.
    Teaches them right for being so obnoxious over Brexit.
  • It feels like France's entire foreign policy is collapsing.
    It turns out that condescension is not marketable afterall.

    But he'll still get a lot of retweets from the FBPE crowd.

    Although should we be sending out a rescue party for Scott N Paste?
  • It feels like France's entire foreign policy is collapsing.
    They'll always have more Europe
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    For those who enjoyed Battle Royale, the Korean series Squid Game on Netflix is a not bad take on the theme.
  • It feels like France's entire foreign policy is collapsing.
    They'll always have more Europe
    They won't even have that if they alienate the rest of the EU by acting like a diva.
  • It feels like France's entire foreign policy is collapsing.
    They'll always have more Europe
    Or Paris.
  • Switzerland has fighter jets?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    It feels like France's entire foreign policy is collapsing.
    Who knew that post-Brexit it would be France that went into Foreign Policy meltdown? I confess, I didn’t. As a Leaver, I thought Britain would struggle, then survive, and ultimately prosper outside a dysfunctional union that lacked democracy and never suited us

    All this farce is an unexpected bonus. But I hope it ends fairly soon. Because laughing at the French is fun but in the end they are a great nation and a pillar of western civilization and we need them. Sane and sensible
  • Great thread:

    A thread, it's pointless, but it makes me smile nonetheless, and this will be the last time I write it.

    My mum passed away in 2019, it was horrific, unexpected, and incredibly miserable. She was retired, but in her final working years she was posted in Zimbabwe with the Foreign


    https://twitter.com/TVRav/status/1439322805561135111?s=20
  • Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
  • Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Totally unacceptable that this should happen to Labour MP for Canterbury Rosie Duffield.

    "Speaker steps in over online threats to female Labour MP Rosie Duffield
    Fear forces Rosie Duffield to miss conference"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/speaker-steps-in-over-online-threats-to-female-labour-mp-jnhbrcgv5

    Sadly it is behind a firewall so I can't see who these morons are. Can anyone enlighten me. Not that it really matters I suppose. It shouldn't happen no matter who is doing it.
    Trans activists and anti-semites, it says. Is she even Jewish?

    Lefty politics are a sewer, right now
    Peep show bloke, Robert Webb, was getting the same treatment this evening on twitter, all because he once said he agreed with an article that was critical of Mermaids....as far as i know, in every other regard he is about as left leaning liberal type as you get...but no he is now supposed to be a massive bigotted homophobe transphobe every ist under the sun, who shouldn't.be allowed on the BBC dancey program.
    Webb along with Mitchell is responsible for one of the funniest sketches on TV.

    "Are we the baddies?"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU
  • "As if attempting to one-up last week’s stupidity with regards to ivermectin, anti-vaxxers on Facebook and Twitter are advocating for a new and unproven Covid-19 treatment: Betadine, an antiseptic used to treat cuts and scrapes.

    Povidone iodine, often sold under the brand-name Betadine, is an iodine-based treatment largely for topical use that kills bacteria."

    Rolling Stone

    ==


  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    dixiedean said:

    FPT. Last thought on the PRC.

    The thing I'm trying to get at is this.
    Folk have woken up to the nature of the PRC regime. About time too.
    But there is ludicrous hyperbole on here about Chinese "threats". These haven't suddenly appeared.
    So China has Australia and the Pacific by the economic goolies, and is using its muscle for foreign policy gain?
    That's capitalism folks. We did it, the US does it.
    They are, first and foremost, interested in the unity of China, and avoidance of domestic chaos. Sure, their idea of China is bigger than most people's. I wouldn't be confident if I were Mongolia. But they aren't going to be invading and annnexing anywhere else any time soon.
    Not putting troops overseas is one of the things they learned from the Soviet Union. It is a pointless squandering of lives and treasure.
    To avoid unrest, they need to keep the money rolling in, and the people enriched.
    That is their aim.
    They aren't trying to impose any political system on their neighbours.
    They don't want a Greater Pacific Empire. If that were so, why haven't they annexed N Korea? They could have. And they would have got away with it too.

    The issue is they want complete control over the South China Sea. Which is one of the most strategic pieces of water in the world. We can’t afford to let them have it.

    That means supporting Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam and the Philippines
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    Yes. Astute. A lot of people fall back on the comfort blanket of seeing Boris as ‘the British Trump’. Yet he isn’t.

    And on that bombshell, bon nuit, PB
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    Hold the front page

    'The Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government will become the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities'
    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1439341124439707655?s=20

    Straight from Yes Minister

    Surely Levelling Up, Communities and Housing

    LUCHy for some
  • Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865
    edited September 2021

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Totally unacceptable that this should happen to Labour MP for Canterbury Rosie Duffield.

    "Speaker steps in over online threats to female Labour MP Rosie Duffield
    Fear forces Rosie Duffield to miss conference"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/speaker-steps-in-over-online-threats-to-female-labour-mp-jnhbrcgv5

    Sadly it is behind a firewall so I can't see who these morons are. Can anyone enlighten me. Not that it really matters I suppose. It shouldn't happen no matter who is doing it.
    Trans activists and anti-semites, it says. Is she even Jewish?

    Lefty politics are a sewer, right now
    Peep show bloke, Robert Webb, was getting the same treatment this evening on twitter, all because he once said he agreed with an article that was critical of Mermaids....as far as i know, in every other regard he is about as left leaning liberal type as you get...but no he is now supposed to be a massive bigotted homophobe transphobe every ist under the sun, who shouldn't.be allowed on the BBC dancey program.
    Webb along with Mitchell is responsible for one of the funniest sketches on TV.

    "Are we the baddies?"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU
    Who's the captain? M&W on the daft names the British gave far-off places in America, Australia and non-submarine countries.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df-uemc-e3w

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    Charles said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT. Last thought on the PRC.

    The thing I'm trying to get at is this.
    Folk have woken up to the nature of the PRC regime. About time too.
    But there is ludicrous hyperbole on here about Chinese "threats". These haven't suddenly appeared.
    So China has Australia and the Pacific by the economic goolies, and is using its muscle for foreign policy gain?
    That's capitalism folks. We did it, the US does it.
    They are, first and foremost, interested in the unity of China, and avoidance of domestic chaos. Sure, their idea of China is bigger than most people's. I wouldn't be confident if I were Mongolia. But they aren't going to be invading and annnexing anywhere else any time soon.
    Not putting troops overseas is one of the things they learned from the Soviet Union. It is a pointless squandering of lives and treasure.
    To avoid unrest, they need to keep the money rolling in, and the people enriched.
    That is their aim.
    They aren't trying to impose any political system on their neighbours.
    They don't want a Greater Pacific Empire. If that were so, why haven't they annexed N Korea? They could have. And they would have got away with it too.

    The issue is they want complete control over the South China Sea. Which is one of the most strategic pieces of water in the world. We can’t afford to let them have it.

    That means supporting Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam and the Philippines
    Yes. And they've wanted it for decades. Even when we were rolling out the red carpet for them. What has changed? Except their economic power. Which the Tory government played a huge part in bolstering.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    dixiedean said:

    Charles said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT. Last thought on the PRC.

    The thing I'm trying to get at is this.
    Folk have woken up to the nature of the PRC regime. About time too.
    But there is ludicrous hyperbole on here about Chinese "threats". These haven't suddenly appeared.
    So China has Australia and the Pacific by the economic goolies, and is using its muscle for foreign policy gain?
    That's capitalism folks. We did it, the US does it.
    They are, first and foremost, interested in the unity of China, and avoidance of domestic chaos. Sure, their idea of China is bigger than most people's. I wouldn't be confident if I were Mongolia. But they aren't going to be invading and annnexing anywhere else any time soon.
    Not putting troops overseas is one of the things they learned from the Soviet Union. It is a pointless squandering of lives and treasure.
    To avoid unrest, they need to keep the money rolling in, and the people enriched.
    That is their aim.
    They aren't trying to impose any political system on their neighbours.
    They don't want a Greater Pacific Empire. If that were so, why haven't they annexed N Korea? They could have. And they would have got away with it too.

    The issue is they want complete control over the South China Sea. Which is one of the most strategic pieces of water in the world. We can’t afford to let them have it.

    That means supporting Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam and the Philippines
    Yes. And they've wanted it for decades. Even when we were rolling out the red carpet for them. What has changed? Except their economic power. Which the Tory government played a huge part in bolstering.
    What changed is the pathetic Cameron left office.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    This is why they didn't withdraw ambassadors from the UK. They are desperate to make this seem Australia and US driven. They can't accept Johnson is a major player.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Leon said:

    It feels like France's entire foreign policy is collapsing.
    Who knew that post-Brexit it would be France that went into Foreign Policy meltdown? I confess, I didn’t. As a Leaver, I thought Britain would struggle, then survive, and ultimately prosper outside a dysfunctional union that lacked democracy and never suited us

    All this farce is an unexpected bonus. But I hope it ends fairly soon. Because laughing at the French is fun but in the end they are a great nation and a pillar of western civilization and we need them. Sane and sensible
    Ultimately, it isn't a good situation, because all Western countries need to stick together to defend liberal democracy.
  • Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    This is why they didn't withdraw ambassadors from the UK. They are desperate to make this seem Australia and US driven. They can't accept Johnson is a major player.
    That is because it is Australia and US driven. Australia was going to spend billions on French submarines. Now it is going to spend billions on American submarines instead. That is why the French are upset. Cash, jobs, and an imminent election.
  • Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    This is why they didn't withdraw ambassadors from the UK. They are desperate to make this seem Australia and US driven. They can't accept Johnson is a major player.
    That is because it is Australia and US driven. Australia was going to spend billions on French submarines. Now it is going to spend billions on American submarines instead. That is why the French are upset. Cash, jobs, and an imminent election.
    If you think Johnson is irrelevant and this is an Aus-US deal, what is your explanation for why they chose to present it the way they did and deliver a gratuitous snub to France and the EU?
  • Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    This is why they didn't withdraw ambassadors from the UK. They are desperate to make this seem Australia and US driven. They can't accept Johnson is a major player.
    That is because it is Australia and US driven. Australia was going to spend billions on French submarines. Now it is going to spend billions on American submarines instead. That is why the French are upset. Cash, jobs, and an imminent election.
    If you think Johnson is irrelevant and this is an Aus-US deal, what is your explanation for why they chose to present it the way they did and deliver a gratuitous snub to France and the EU?
    Britain is involved. Britain is not involved in the part that offends France.
  • The Bank of England spent nearly £27,000 on consultants to help it become more diverse, weeks before appointing an Oxford-educated white man as chief economist.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/18/bank-england-spends-27000-diversity-consultants/ (£££)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    The Bank of England spent nearly £27,000 on consultants to help it become more diverse, weeks before appointing an Oxford-educated white man as chief economist.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/18/bank-england-spends-27000-diversity-consultants/ (£££)

    Will they be paying the money back?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    Andy_JS said:

    Totally unacceptable that this should happen to Labour MP for Canterbury Rosie Duffield.

    "Speaker steps in over online threats to female Labour MP Rosie Duffield
    Fear forces Rosie Duffield to miss conference"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/speaker-steps-in-over-online-threats-to-female-labour-mp-jnhbrcgv5

    The silence of Starmer and other senior labour politicians not only damns them but shows they’re scared of the consequences of showing solidarity with her.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865
    edited September 2021
    The Telegraph's piece on Number 10 power couple Munira Mirza (head of the policy unit) and Dougie Smith (all-round CCHQ fixer) suggests in an aside that there are tensions around culture wars:-

    Carrie Johnson and Henry Newman, the increasingly influential adviser brought in from the Cabinet Office, are among those who believe Mirza and Smith have been too aggressive on the culture wars, which backfired during Euro 2020 when Conservative MPs, most notably Home Secretary Priti Patel, suggested taking the knee was a fairly meaningless gesture and fans had every right to boo the England team when they did it.

    National pride inspired by the team’s historic run to the final forced something of a retreat from the Government, and at a recent Cabinet meeting Johnson warned ministers to be careful with their choice of language on the anti-woke agenda as polling has suggested it is hurting the party in the south-east.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/0/munira-mirza-dougie-smith-powerful-couple-downing-street/ (£££)
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Totally unacceptable that this should happen to Labour MP for Canterbury Rosie Duffield.

    "Speaker steps in over online threats to female Labour MP Rosie Duffield
    Fear forces Rosie Duffield to miss conference"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/speaker-steps-in-over-online-threats-to-female-labour-mp-jnhbrcgv5

    The silence of Starmer and other senior labour politicians not only damns them but shows they’re scared of the consequences of showing solidarity with her.
    Why is anyone surprised? The so-called 'decent' Starmer spent several years on Corbyn's front bench silent amid the anti-semitism which engulfed the party, while openly fighting to reverse the referendum result on Brexit. Both things which he'd like everyone to now forget.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    The PB elite?
  • It is not just doctors and lorry drivers, film and television technicians are in short supply too. Long hours and poor conditions mean people are leaving the creative industries, and new studios and a Covid backlog to be cleared mean demand is higher.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/could-have-life-earn-inside-british-screen-industrys-staffing/ (£££)

    It might be worth reading if you want to break into the industry but there is also evidence of a shortage of Telegraph sub-editors as in places it is unintelligible, as if words and phrases have been deleted at random.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    The PB elite?
    It has been even more noticeable in the post-Brexit years that a section of the liberal left elite have utter contempt for those less educated among sections of the lower w/c especially from the north. Of course it all began with the unfortunate microphone incident with Gordon Brown. It is this above all which has riven the Labour party asunder and it's unclear that they are even on the road to recognising let alone mending this problem. The current treatment of some of their women MPs referred to above is simply the latest example of this problem.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    It is not just doctors and lorry drivers, film and television technicians are in short supply too. Long hours and poor conditions mean people are leaving the creative industries, and new studios and a Covid backlog to be cleared mean demand is higher.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/could-have-life-earn-inside-british-screen-industrys-staffing/ (£££)

    It might be worth reading if you want to break into the industry but there is also evidence of a shortage of Telegraph sub-editors as in places it is unintelligible, as if words and phrases have been deleted at random.

    Poor pay of doctors? Are you for real? And long hours - maybe for some in hospitals.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    It is not just doctors and lorry drivers, film and television technicians are in short supply too. Long hours and poor conditions mean people are leaving the creative industries, and new studios and a Covid backlog to be cleared mean demand is higher.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/could-have-life-earn-inside-british-screen-industrys-staffing/ (£££)

    It might be worth reading if you want to break into the industry but there is also evidence of a shortage of Telegraph sub-editors as in places it is unintelligible, as if words and phrases have been deleted at random.

    Re - the latter point one can only guess they've been poaching from the Grauniad. However, to be more serious, the written word in all the media these is a testimony to the lamentable standards of teaching in the years since December 2008 - coincidentally the point at which I retired from the profession :smiley:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    This is why they didn't withdraw ambassadors from the UK. They are desperate to make this seem Australia and US driven. They can't accept Johnson is a major player.
    Surely they didn't remove the ambassador to the UK, because the thing they were upset about was the loss of a €90bn contract from the Australians to the US.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    The PB elite?
    It has been even more noticeable in the post-Brexit years that a section of the liberal left elite have utter contempt for those less educated among sections of the lower w/c especially from the north. Of course it all began with the unfortunate microphone incident with Gordon Brown. It is this above all which has riven the Labour party asunder and it's unclear that they are even on the road to recognising let alone mending this problem. The current treatment of some of their women MPs referred to above is simply the latest example of this problem.
    Putting thoughts and motivations in other people's minds has also become common, no?

  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    The PB elite?
    It has been even more noticeable in the post-Brexit years that a section of the liberal left elite have utter contempt for those less educated among sections of the lower w/c especially from the north. Of course it all began with the unfortunate microphone incident with Gordon Brown. It is this above all which has riven the Labour party asunder and it's unclear that they are even on the road to recognising let alone mending this problem. The current treatment of some of their women MPs referred to above is simply the latest example of this problem.
    Putting thoughts and motivations in other people's minds has also become common, no?

    Have you ever read Roger's comments? Do you think the GB microphone comment was fake?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    The PB elite?
    It has been even more noticeable in the post-Brexit years that a section of the liberal left elite have utter contempt for those less educated among sections of the lower w/c especially from the north. Of course it all began with the unfortunate microphone incident with Gordon Brown. It is this above all which has riven the Labour party asunder and it's unclear that they are even on the road to recognising let alone mending this problem. The current treatment of some of their women MPs referred to above is simply the latest example of this problem.
    Putting thoughts and motivations in other people's minds has also become common, no?

    Have you ever read Roger's comments? Do you think the GB microphone comment was fake?
    How would you feel if I attributed the views of (say) @HYUFD to broadly right wing people?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    ...
  • felix said:

    It is not just doctors and lorry drivers, film and television technicians are in short supply too. Long hours and poor conditions mean people are leaving the creative industries, and new studios and a Covid backlog to be cleared mean demand is higher.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/could-have-life-earn-inside-british-screen-industrys-staffing/ (£££)

    It might be worth reading if you want to break into the industry but there is also evidence of a shortage of Telegraph sub-editors as in places it is unintelligible, as if words and phrases have been deleted at random.

    Poor pay of doctors? Are you for real? And long hours - maybe for some in hospitals.
    You might have missed the full stop ending the first sentence.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    The PB elite?
    It has been even more noticeable in the post-Brexit years that a section of the liberal left elite have utter contempt for those less educated among sections of the lower w/c especially from the north. Of course it all began with the unfortunate microphone incident with Gordon Brown. It is this above all which has riven the Labour party asunder and it's unclear that they are even on the road to recognising let alone mending this problem. The current treatment of some of their women MPs referred to above is simply the latest example of this problem.
    Putting thoughts and motivations in other people's minds has also become common, no?

    Have you ever read Roger's comments? Do you think the GB microphone comment was fake?
    How would you feel if I attributed the views of (say) @HYUFD to broadly right wing people?
    That would be a considerable stretch of elastic.

    Meanwhile I see it was another night of wanking off from PB Brexiters at the probably-irrelevant-in-the-bigger-scheme-of-things submarine deal, led by Sean as site wanker in chief. Yet I’d be surprised if this evident political payoff is replicated in the population of real people.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    This is why they didn't withdraw ambassadors from the UK. They are desperate to make this seem Australia and US driven. They can't accept Johnson is a major player.
    Surely they didn't remove the ambassador to the UK, because the thing they were upset about was the loss of a €90bn contract from the Australians to the US.
    Careful, Occam’s razor can be very damaging to people’s rickety and fantastical constructions.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    One senses a revival of the mancrush after the NI increase induced hissy fit of last week.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    rcs1000 said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    This is why they didn't withdraw ambassadors from the UK. They are desperate to make this seem Australia and US driven. They can't accept Johnson is a major player.
    Surely they didn't remove the ambassador to the UK, because the thing they were upset about was the loss of a €90bn contract from the Australians to the US.
    You are right but this just underlines what a transactional view the European powers take to foreign policy. It’s a real pickle that the core EU countries so readily undermine Western democracy’s struggle against the autocrats in Russia and China.

    The most realistic action is the direction that the Anglosphere is shifting to, one where economic and military alliances with Japan and possibly India supersede in importance the ones with Europe. But it would be far better if the core EU countries joined them in a new PTO to supplement NATO. And then revise and merge TPP and TTIP to block out trade from China on grounds that they cheat on everything from the environment to state subsidy to human rights.

    But this won’t happen for two reasons. The Europeans like the export contracts and energy imports they get from the autocrats. And the Federalists are still using every opportunity to lean towards a mutual EU defence policy, in their outdated bid to provide a “counterweight” to the US, rather than realising all they do is fragment the Western alliance against the real enemy of China.
  • felix said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Totally unacceptable that this should happen to Labour MP for Canterbury Rosie Duffield.

    "Speaker steps in over online threats to female Labour MP Rosie Duffield
    Fear forces Rosie Duffield to miss conference"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/speaker-steps-in-over-online-threats-to-female-labour-mp-jnhbrcgv5

    The silence of Starmer and other senior labour politicians not only damns them but shows they’re scared of the consequences of showing solidarity with her.
    Why is anyone surprised? The so-called 'decent' Starmer spent several years on Corbyn's front bench silent amid the anti-semitism which engulfed the party, while openly fighting to reverse the referendum result on Brexit. Both things which he'd like everyone to now forget.
    This sentiment has been expressed a lot recently by different posters. Cynics might think CCHQ is trialling attack lines for the general election in a year and a half's time.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    The PB elite?
    It has been even more noticeable in the post-Brexit years that a section of the liberal left elite have utter contempt for those less educated among sections of the lower w/c especially from the north. Of course it all began with the unfortunate microphone incident with Gordon Brown. It is this above all which has riven the Labour party asunder and it's unclear that they are even on the road to recognising let alone mending this problem. The current treatment of some of their women MPs referred to above is simply the latest example of this problem.
    Putting thoughts and motivations in other people's minds has also become common, no?

    Have you ever read Roger's comments? Do you think the GB microphone comment was fake?
    You think Roger representative of anyone other than himself ?
    He’s an outlier even on PB.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    The PB elite?
    It has been even more noticeable in the post-Brexit years that a section of the liberal left elite have utter contempt for those less educated among sections of the lower w/c especially from the north. Of course it all began with the unfortunate microphone incident with Gordon Brown. It is this above all which has riven the Labour party asunder and it's unclear that they are even on the road to recognising let alone mending this problem. The current treatment of some of their women MPs referred to above is simply the latest example of this problem.
    Labour has always had a thread of unpleasant misogyny (hence in part why no female leader); you are bending evidence to suit your prejudice there.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    The PB elite?
    It has been even more noticeable in the post-Brexit years that a section of the liberal left elite have utter contempt for those less educated among sections of the lower w/c especially from the north. Of course it all began with the unfortunate microphone incident with Gordon Brown. It is this above all which has riven the Labour party asunder and it's unclear that they are even on the road to recognising let alone mending this problem. The current treatment of some of their women MPs referred to above is simply the latest example of this problem.
    Putting thoughts and motivations in other people's minds has also become common, no?

    Have you ever read Roger's comments? Do you think the GB microphone comment was fake?
    How would you feel if I attributed the views of (say) @HYUFD to broadly right wing people?
    He is more representative than Roger - given he’s actually been elected to something…
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    edited September 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    The PB elite?
    It has been even more noticeable in the post-Brexit years that a section of the liberal left elite have utter contempt for those less educated among sections of the lower w/c especially from the north. Of course it all began with the unfortunate microphone incident with Gordon Brown. It is this above all which has riven the Labour party asunder and it's unclear that they are even on the road to recognising let alone mending this problem. The current treatment of some of their women MPs referred to above is simply the latest example of this problem.
    Putting thoughts and motivations in other people's minds has also become common, no?

    Have you ever read Roger's comments? Do you think the GB microphone comment was fake?
    How would you feel if I attributed the views of (say) @HYUFD to broadly right wing people?
    Fine - but be more specific - I referred to, quote, 'a section of the liberal left' which, without wishing to be condescending, is I think rather narrower than 'broadly right wing people', no?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    edited September 2021
    Bats in Laos Caves Harbor Closest (so far discovered) Relatives to Covid-19 Virus
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-18/bats-in-laos-caves-harbor-closest-relatives-to-covid-19-virus
    … The receptor binding domains of three Laos coronaviruses are closer to that of SARS-CoV-2 than to the RaTG13 virus identified in Rhinopholus affinis bats from the Mojiang mineshaft in Yunnan province, that was regarded as the pandemic strain’s closest match. The BANAL-236 virus has an almost identical receptor binding domain to the pandemic virus, according to the paper...

    Though no furin cleavage site on these particular viruses.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Nigelb said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    The PB elite?
    It has been even more noticeable in the post-Brexit years that a section of the liberal left elite have utter contempt for those less educated among sections of the lower w/c especially from the north. Of course it all began with the unfortunate microphone incident with Gordon Brown. It is this above all which has riven the Labour party asunder and it's unclear that they are even on the road to recognising let alone mending this problem. The current treatment of some of their women MPs referred to above is simply the latest example of this problem.
    Putting thoughts and motivations in other people's minds has also become common, no?

    Have you ever read Roger's comments? Do you think the GB microphone comment was fake?
    You think Roger representative of anyone other than himself ?
    He’s an outlier even on PB.
    That is certainly re-assuring to read.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    felix said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Totally unacceptable that this should happen to Labour MP for Canterbury Rosie Duffield.

    "Speaker steps in over online threats to female Labour MP Rosie Duffield
    Fear forces Rosie Duffield to miss conference"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/speaker-steps-in-over-online-threats-to-female-labour-mp-jnhbrcgv5

    The silence of Starmer and other senior labour politicians not only damns them but shows they’re scared of the consequences of showing solidarity with her.
    Why is anyone surprised? The so-called 'decent' Starmer spent several years on Corbyn's front bench silent amid the anti-semitism which engulfed the party, while openly fighting to reverse the referendum result on Brexit. Both things which he'd like everyone to now forget.
    This sentiment has been expressed a lot recently by different posters. Cynics might think CCHQ is trialling attack lines for the general election in a year and a half's time.
    All's fair in love and...politics. Of course it happens to be true along with the threats to Labour women MPs. We're all waiting for the leader to speak up.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I know you'd love this to be about us, but if it was Britain they were most pissed off with why didn't they recall their ambassador here? They are pissed off with the Australians for abandoning their subs deal, and with the Americans for facilitating the perceived treachery. They view us as very much the junior party in the transaction, which on any objective analysis of the deal we are.
    The French are much less obsessed with us than we are in them, in my experience. It's the Americans that they are obsessed with. That's kind of delusional of course, since the US is far more powerful than they are. But the French are the only country in Europe whose delusions of grandeur match those of the English.
    You missed my entire point, while proving it. Bravo
    No, I just thought your entire point was wrong.
  • felix said:

    It is not just doctors and lorry drivers, film and television technicians are in short supply too. Long hours and poor conditions mean people are leaving the creative industries, and new studios and a Covid backlog to be cleared mean demand is higher.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/could-have-life-earn-inside-british-screen-industrys-staffing/ (£££)

    It might be worth reading if you want to break into the industry but there is also evidence of a shortage of Telegraph sub-editors as in places it is unintelligible, as if words and phrases have been deleted at random.

    Poor pay of doctors? Are you for real? And long hours - maybe for some in hospitals.
    You might have missed the full stop ending the first sentence.
    And come to think of it, junior hospital doctors are not that well-paid. It might surprise people that newly-qualified medics get less than the average salary, though of course its progression may be faster than average. Their overtime and on-call payments are ungenerous too.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    The PB elite?
    It has been even more noticeable in the post-Brexit years that a section of the liberal left elite have utter contempt for those less educated among sections of the lower w/c especially from the north. Of course it all began with the unfortunate microphone incident with Gordon Brown. It is this above all which has riven the Labour party asunder and it's unclear that they are even on the road to recognising let alone mending this problem. The current treatment of some of their women MPs referred to above is simply the latest example of this problem.
    Labour has always had a thread of unpleasant misogyny (hence in part why no female leader); you are bending evidence to suit your prejudice there.
    I think not.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Nigelb said:

    Bats in Laos Caves Harbor Closest (so far discovered) Relatives to Covid-19 Virus
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-18/bats-in-laos-caves-harbor-closest-relatives-to-covid-19-virus
    … The receptor binding domains of three Laos coronaviruses are closer to that of SARS-CoV-2 than to the RaTG13 virus identified in Rhinopholus affinis bats from the Mojiang mineshaft in Yunnan province, that was regarded as the pandemic strain’s closest match. The BANAL-236 virus has an almost identical receptor binding domain to the pandemic virus, according to the paper...

    Though no furin cleavage site on these particular viruses.

    Ugh batcaves. I’ve been unwittingly taken to remote batcaves in Laos and Bolivia. At the time I was more concerned about rabies than respiratory disease. I remember the one in Bolivia, the guide lobbing a rock inside to make them all fly out against our faces like happened in the Goonies.
  • felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    The PB elite?
    It has been even more noticeable in the post-Brexit years that a section of the liberal left elite have utter contempt for those less educated among sections of the lower w/c especially from the north. Of course it all began with the unfortunate microphone incident with Gordon Brown. It is this above all which has riven the Labour party asunder and it's unclear that they are even on the road to recognising let alone mending this problem. The current treatment of some of their women MPs referred to above is simply the latest example of this problem.
    Yeah the Labour Party hates working class northern women who didn't go to university so much that they (checks notes) elected one as deputy leader.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    edited September 2021
    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    This is why they didn't withdraw ambassadors from the UK. They are desperate to make this seem Australia and US driven. They can't accept Johnson is a major player.
    Surely they didn't remove the ambassador to the UK, because the thing they were upset about was the loss of a €90bn contract from the Australians to the US.
    You are right but this just underlines what a transactional view the European powers take to foreign policy. It’s a real pickle that the core EU countries so readily undermine Western democracy’s struggle against the autocrats in Russia and China.

    The most realistic action is the direction that the Anglosphere is shifting to, one where economic and military alliances with Japan and possibly India supersede in importance the ones with Europe. But it would be far better if the core EU countries joined them in a new PTO to supplement NATO. And then revise and merge TPP and TTIP to block out trade from China on grounds that they cheat on everything from the environment to state subsidy to human rights.

    But this won’t happen for two reasons. The Europeans like the export contracts and energy imports they get from the autocrats. And the Federalists are still using every opportunity to lean towards a mutual EU defence policy, in their outdated bid to provide a “counterweight” to the US, rather than realising all they do is fragment the Western alliance against the real enemy of China.
    It’s foolish to think that other nations don’t take a pretty transactional approach to foreign policy, too.
    I agree with your general point, but I think the problem is rather that the EU overestimates the stability of the current world order, and underestimates the threat to themselves from the autocracies.

    And whether we like it or not, we have to deal with China on both the environment and trade - but need to do so with our eyes open.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    The PB elite?
    It has been even more noticeable in the post-Brexit years that a section of the liberal left elite have utter contempt for those less educated among sections of the lower w/c especially from the north. Of course it all began with the unfortunate microphone incident with Gordon Brown. It is this above all which has riven the Labour party asunder and it's unclear that they are even on the road to recognising let alone mending this problem. The current treatment of some of their women MPs referred to above is simply the latest example of this problem.
    Yeah the Labour Party hates working class northern women who didn't go to university so much that they (checks notes) elected one as deputy leader.
    Lol - but the only mainstream party yet to have a women leader.....
  • felix said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    The PB elite?
    It has been even more noticeable in the post-Brexit years that a section of the liberal left elite have utter contempt for those less educated among sections of the lower w/c especially from the north. Of course it all began with the unfortunate microphone incident with Gordon Brown. It is this above all which has riven the Labour party asunder and it's unclear that they are even on the road to recognising let alone mending this problem. The current treatment of some of their women MPs referred to above is simply the latest example of this problem.
    Yeah the Labour Party hates working class northern women who didn't go to university so much that they (checks notes) elected one as deputy leader.
    Lol - but the only mainstream party yet to have a women leader.....
    Don't blame me, I voted for Lisa Nandy.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    This is why they didn't withdraw ambassadors from the UK. They are desperate to make this seem Australia and US driven. They can't accept Johnson is a major player.
    Surely they didn't remove the ambassador to the UK, because the thing they were upset about was the loss of a €90bn contract from the Australians to the US.
    You are right but this just underlines what a transactional view the European powers take to foreign policy. It’s a real pickle that the core EU countries so readily undermine Western democracy’s struggle against the autocrats in Russia and China.

    The most realistic action is the direction that the Anglosphere is shifting to, one where economic and military alliances with Japan and possibly India supersede in importance the ones with Europe. But it would be far better if the core EU countries joined them in a new PTO to supplement NATO. And then revise and merge TPP and TTIP to block out trade from China on grounds that they cheat on everything from the environment to state subsidy to human rights.

    But this won’t happen for two reasons. The Europeans like the export contracts and energy imports they get from the autocrats. And the Federalists are still using every opportunity to lean towards a mutual EU defence policy, in their outdated bid to provide a “counterweight” to the US, rather than realising all they do is fragment the Western alliance against the real enemy of China.
    It’s foolish to think that other nations don’t take a pretty transactional approach to foreign policy, too.
    I agree with your general point, but I think the problem is rather that the EU overestimates the stability of the current world order, and underestimates the threat to themselves from the autocracies.

    And whether we like it or not, we have to deal with China on both the environment and trade - but need to do so with our eyes open.
    China’s foreign policy approach can appear transactional. But it’s actually deeply rooted in serving an ideology. One of securing total dominance for the Han race and culture, and the Chinese communist system of society. The transactional approach of the Europeans serves no greater ideology than using the sale of capital equipment from the Ruhr for jobs.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,417
    Good morning one and all; cloudy and overcast again this morning, and the rain's possibly back this afternoon.14 degC, which isn't too bad.

    Enjoyed the cricket yesterday, although how a perfectly good catch was turned into a six was puzzling.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Dura_Ace said:

    IanB2 said:



    Meanwhile I see it was another night of wanking off from PB Brexiters at the probably-irrelevant-in-the-bigger-scheme-of-things submarine deal, led by Sean as site wanker in chief. Yet I’d be surprised if this evident political payoff is replicated in the population of real people.

    I asked a question yesterday and got no answer so I suppose nobody knows but I'll try again:

    What additional obligations does the new Alliance of Awesome/Submarine Marketing Board agreement place on the UK beyond its existing (NATO and FPDA) defence and security structures?

    Until that is is clear both the tories (who are giving each other one speed hand jobs with FULL EYE CONTACT over it) and the detractors (who claim its an incidental marketing exercise on a par with McDonalds Monopoly) need to reserve judgement.
    Indeed, it could still be all fur coat and no knickers. Need to see the follow through. But a press conference is at least a start.
  • Why on earth should there be seat losses to the SNP? The Tories have been winning council seats from the SNP in Scotland. In addition there will be 7 fewer Scottish seats after the boundary changes. It really is time the remoaners on this site realise they lost in 2016 and we have left the EU for good. If Boris won the next election with a majority of 100, most of you would be trying to find a way to dismiss it as a disaster for him. The LobDems might win the odd council by-election and may even win some of the new Westminster seats after the boundary changes but they stabbed their most successful leader, Charles Kennedy in the back and they have kept going backwards ever since. I said 2 years ago Starmer would bore the working class and so it is proving to be.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    edited September 2021

    Good morning one and all; cloudy and overcast again this morning, and the rain's possibly back this afternoon.14 degC, which isn't too bad.

    Enjoyed the cricket yesterday, although how a perfectly good catch was turned into a six was puzzling.

    The catcher collided with somebody who was touching the boundary rope.

    Bizarre and freakish but not really puzzling.

    Edit - of course in the semis you also had Weatherley reprieved because somebody stepped outside the circle.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    This is why they didn't withdraw ambassadors from the UK. They are desperate to make this seem Australia and US driven. They can't accept Johnson is a major player.
    Surely they didn't remove the ambassador to the UK, because the thing they were upset about was the loss of a €90bn contract from the Australians to the US.
    You are right but this just underlines what a transactional view the European powers take to foreign policy. It’s a real pickle that the core EU countries so readily undermine Western democracy’s struggle against the autocrats in Russia and China.

    The most realistic action is the direction that the Anglosphere is shifting to, one where economic and military alliances with Japan and possibly India supersede in importance the ones with Europe. But it would be far better if the core EU countries joined them in a new PTO to supplement NATO. And then revise and merge TPP and TTIP to block out trade from China on grounds that they cheat on everything from the environment to state subsidy to human rights.

    But this won’t happen for two reasons. The Europeans like the export contracts and energy imports they get from the autocrats. And the Federalists are still using every opportunity to lean towards a mutual EU defence policy, in their outdated bid to provide a “counterweight” to the US, rather than realising all they do is fragment the Western alliance against the real enemy of China.
    It’s foolish to think that other nations don’t take a pretty transactional approach to foreign policy, too.
    I agree with your general point, but I think the problem is rather that the EU overestimates the stability of the current world order, and underestimates the threat to themselves from the autocracies.

    And whether we like it or not, we have to deal with China on both the environment and trade - but need to do so with our eyes open.
    China’s foreign policy approach can appear transactional. But it’s actually deeply rooted in serving an ideology. One of securing total dominance for the Han race and culture, and the Chinese communist system of society. The transactional approach of the Europeans serves no greater ideology than using the sale of capital equipment from the Ruhr for jobs.
    My point was that both are transactional - it’s a question of what value you put on particular things. All countries pursue their own best interests - the argument is rather whether the EU properly appreciates where its interests actually lie.

    In any event, critiquing France for not blithely accepting the loss of its sub deal is pretty ridiculous.
    This perhaps puts it better:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/france-recalls-ambassador-right-middle-lunch/620126/
    … But on the plus side: They did not shove us out on the sidewalk. A powerful symbolic message was sent. France is mad, but not so mad that we will deprive our American friends of lunch and dessert. (Crème brûlée, in case you were wondering, under crackling crusts individually crafted by a sous-chef with a miniature flamethrower.)

    It’s like a scene from a marriage that endures despite the quarrels. The aggrieved partner walked out in a rage, but not before ensuring that the other had been properly fed...
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Dura_Ace said:

    IanB2 said:



    Meanwhile I see it was another night of wanking off from PB Brexiters at the probably-irrelevant-in-the-bigger-scheme-of-things submarine deal, led by Sean as site wanker in chief. Yet I’d be surprised if this evident political payoff is replicated in the population of real people.

    I asked a question yesterday and got no answer so I suppose nobody knows but I'll try again:

    What additional obligations does the new Alliance of Awesome/Submarine Marketing Board agreement place on the UK beyond its existing (NATO and FPDA) defence and security structures?

    Until that is is clear both the tories (who are giving each other one speed hand jobs with FULL EYE CONTACT over it) and the detractors (who claim its an incidental marketing exercise on a par with McDonalds Monopoly) need to reserve judgement.
    I don't think it's an obligation as such, but the UK is clearly prioritising its relationship with Australia over the one with France. That has implications for the UK some diplomatic and security people think are unwise.

    Australia and the US have a common interest in containing China in the Pacific region that is less obvious for the UK
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,417
    edited September 2021
    ydoethur said:

    Good morning one and all; cloudy and overcast again this morning, and the rain's possibly back this afternoon.14 degC, which isn't too bad.

    Enjoyed the cricket yesterday, although how a perfectly good catch was turned into a six was puzzling.

    The catcher collided with somebody who was touching the boundary rope.

    Bizarre and freakish but not really puzzling.

    Edit - of course in the semis you also had Weatherley reprieved because somebody stepped outside the circle.
    The catcher had completed the catch though. I agree; bizarre.

    In other sports related news, it appears there may be a treatment, at least of sorts for Motor Neurone Disease, and Rob Burrow is 'giving it a go'. We have family experience of MND, so we welcome anything that will help sufferers.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555

    Why on earth should there be seat losses to the SNP? The Tories have been winning council seats from the SNP in Scotland. In addition there will be 7 fewer Scottish seats after the boundary changes. It really is time the remoaners on this site realise they lost in 2016 and we have left the EU for good. If Boris won the next election with a majority of 100, most of you would be trying to find a way to dismiss it as a disaster for him. The LobDems might win the odd council by-election and may even win some of the new Westminster seats after the boundary changes but they stabbed their most successful leader, Charles Kennedy in the back and they have kept going backwards ever since. I said 2 years ago Starmer would bore the working class and so it is proving to be.

    Liking the idea of the LazyLobDems.....
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,033
    The Observer's op-ed on the AUKUS triumph is either a brilliant parody of Remoaner hand-wringing, or else it was dictated by Macron:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/19/observer-view-on-anglo-french-relations-aukus-pact
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555
    Haven't treated you to a moth image for a while, so here's a Clifden Nonpareil, aka Large Blue Underwing, sat by the trap. They really are L-A-R-G-E.....


  • Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. 43, vielleicht. Australia is seeing China ramping up its military and cracking down internally. France isn't at the same sort of risk from Russia.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354

    ydoethur said:

    Good morning one and all; cloudy and overcast again this morning, and the rain's possibly back this afternoon.14 degC, which isn't too bad.

    Enjoyed the cricket yesterday, although how a perfectly good catch was turned into a six was puzzling.

    The catcher collided with somebody who was touching the boundary rope.

    Bizarre and freakish but not really puzzling.

    Edit - of course in the semis you also had Weatherley reprieved because somebody stepped outside the circle.
    The catcher had completed the catch though. I agree; bizarre.

    In other sports related news, it appears there may be a treatment, at least of sorts for Motor Neurone Disease, and Rob Burrow is 'giving it a go'. We have family experience of MND, so we welcome anything that will help sufferers.
    If there was still movement between the fielders chasing the ball, the catch wasn’t completed.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    FF43 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    IanB2 said:



    Meanwhile I see it was another night of wanking off from PB Brexiters at the probably-irrelevant-in-the-bigger-scheme-of-things submarine deal, led by Sean as site wanker in chief. Yet I’d be surprised if this evident political payoff is replicated in the population of real people.

    I asked a question yesterday and got no answer so I suppose nobody knows but I'll try again:

    What additional obligations does the new Alliance of Awesome/Submarine Marketing Board agreement place on the UK beyond its existing (NATO and FPDA) defence and security structures?

    Until that is is clear both the tories (who are giving each other one speed hand jobs with FULL EYE CONTACT over it) and the detractors (who claim its an incidental marketing exercise on a par with McDonalds Monopoly) need to reserve judgement.
    I don't think it's an obligation as such, but the UK is clearly prioritising its relationship with Australia over the one with France. That has implications for the UK some diplomatic and security people think are unwise.

    Australia and the US have a common interest in containing China in the Pacific region that is less obvious for the UK
    That you still don’t appreciate that we have an equal interest says it all in why China is winning the Cold War they started some years ago.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,417

    Why on earth should there be seat losses to the SNP? The Tories have been winning council seats from the SNP in Scotland. In addition there will be 7 fewer Scottish seats after the boundary changes. It really is time the remoaners on this site realise they lost in 2016 and we have left the EU for good. If Boris won the next election with a majority of 100, most of you would be trying to find a way to dismiss it as a disaster for him. The LobDems might win the odd council by-election and may even win some of the new Westminster seats after the boundary changes but they stabbed their most successful leader, Charles Kennedy in the back and they have kept going backwards ever since. I said 2 years ago Starmer would bore the working class and so it is proving to be.

    Charles Kennedy; if ever a man could be said to have died of a broken heart it was him. Emotionally as well as physically!
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Haven't treated you to a moth image for a while, so here's a Clifden Nonpareil, aka Large Blue Underwing, sat by the trap. They really are L-A-R-G-E.....


    Fuck off with the Therese Coffey upskirts.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    felix said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    The PB elite?
    It has been even more noticeable in the post-Brexit years that a section of the liberal left elite have utter contempt for those less educated among sections of the lower w/c especially from the north. Of course it all began with the unfortunate microphone incident with Gordon Brown. It is this above all which has riven the Labour party asunder and it's unclear that they are even on the road to recognising let alone mending this problem. The current treatment of some of their women MPs referred to above is simply the latest example of this problem.
    Yeah the Labour Party hates working class northern women who didn't go to university so much that they (checks notes) elected one as deputy leader.
    Lol - but the only mainstream party yet to have a women leader.....
    Yes but that has nothing to do with changes “post-Brexit” nor with attitudes toward the working class. Your analysis is all over the place this morning.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,417
    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    The PB elite?
    It has been even more noticeable in the post-Brexit years that a section of the liberal left elite have utter contempt for those less educated among sections of the lower w/c especially from the north. Of course it all began with the unfortunate microphone incident with Gordon Brown. It is this above all which has riven the Labour party asunder and it's unclear that they are even on the road to recognising let alone mending this problem. The current treatment of some of their women MPs referred to above is simply the latest example of this problem.
    Yeah the Labour Party hates working class northern women who didn't go to university so much that they (checks notes) elected one as deputy leader.
    Lol - but the only mainstream party yet to have a women leader.....
    Yes but that has nothing to do with changes “post-Brexit” nor with attitudes toward the working class. Your analysis is all over the place this morning.
    Wasn't Margaret Beckett Acting Leader for a short while?
  • King Cole, yes, but that was on an interim and unelected basis.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555
    Fishing said:

    The Observer's op-ed on the AUKUS triumph is either a brilliant parody of Remoaner hand-wringing, or else it was dictated by Macron:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/19/observer-view-on-anglo-french-relations-aukus-pact

    Cheese-eating surrender-monkeys....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    This is an aspect of the deal I think we’ve yet to discuss ?

    https://thebulletin.org/2021/09/the-new-australia-uk-and-us-nuclear-submarine-announcement-a-terrible-decision-for-the-nonproliferation-regime/
    … The United States and UK operate naval reactors in their submarines that are fueled with 93.5 percent enriched uranium (civilian power plants are typically fueled with three to five percent uranium-235) in quantities sufficient to last for the lifetime of their ships (33 years for attack submarines).Having resisted domestic efforts to minimize the use of HEU and convert their naval reactors to LEU fuel, the United States and UK have no alternative fuel to offer. France, on the other hand, now runs naval reactors fueled with LEU. The new Suffren-class submarine, from which the French conventional submarine offered to Australia was derived, even runs on fuel enriched below 6 percent.

    So Australia is likely to receive HEU technology, unless an LEU crash program is launched that could take more than a decade to complete or in a dramatic reversal, France is pulled back into a deal—two scenarios that remain unlikely at this point and at any rate do not solve all proliferation concerns. Assuming the high-enrichment route is followed, if Canberra wants to operate six to 12 nuclear submarines for about 30 years, it will need some three to six tons of HEU. It has none on hand and no domestic capacity to enrich uranium. So unless it kickstarts an enrichment program for military purposes, the material would need to come from the United States or the UK.

    One can only imagine the drops of sweat trickling down the neck of the International Atomic Energy Agency leadership in Vienna when an Australian delegation comes knocking at its door bringing the good news. The agency, which is currently battling to prevent Iran from acquiring enough fissile material to build a nuclear weapon—25 kilograms (0.025 ton) of HEU according to the internationally agreed standard—will have to figure out how to monitor and account for 100 to 200 times that amount without gaining access to secret naval reactor design information. Managing that feat while keeping its credibility intact will be difficult to pull off...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    Why on earth should there be seat losses to the SNP? The Tories have been winning council seats from the SNP in Scotland. In addition there will be 7 fewer Scottish seats after the boundary changes. It really is time the remoaners on this site realise they lost in 2016 and we have left the EU for good. If Boris won the next election with a majority of 100, most of you would be trying to find a way to dismiss it as a disaster for him. The LobDems might win the odd council by-election and may even win some of the new Westminster seats after the boundary changes but they stabbed their most successful leader, Charles Kennedy in the back and they have kept going backwards ever since. I said 2 years ago Starmer would bore the working class and so it is proving to be.

    Sadly, it's entirely possible that the Scottish Conservatives are completely wiped out in 2024. All the polls point to the SNP being up quite a bit from 2019. And the Conservative seats - even after boundary changes - aren't likely to be particularly safe.

    My guess, FWIW, is that the Conservatives drop to just a single borders seat.

    (Also: are you accounting for the fact that Scottish local elections are STV?)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    I hesitate to quote the entire article, but this is rather important.
    … Until now, it was the US commitment to nonproliferation that relentlessly crushed or greatly limited these aspirations toward nuclear-powered submarine technology. With the new AUKUS decision, we can now expect the proliferation of very sensitive military nuclear technology in the coming years, with literally tons of new nuclear materials under loose or no international safeguards.…

    Brazil will certainly want nuclear sub tech - and France might now be strongly motivated to sell it to them.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    The EU doesn't have a single university ranked in the World's top twenty....

    Sorry but your tweet is a reflection of the over militarization of the US foreign policy. Most of the major issues of today and tomorrow are not military: Climate change, trade, artificial intelligence, cyberspace etc. In all these fields, the EU is a superpower.


    https://twitter.com/GerardAraud/status/1439314000714604552?s=20

    PMSL 😂
    It's remarkably ignorant. The US dominates AI and cyberspace, the EU isn't even close behind. China is in second place.

    Right now there is a huge amount of capital being expended on producing accelerators for machine learning, and I would guess that 9 out of 10 times the companies involved are US or Chinese, and occcasionally the UK will pop up with a company like Graphcore. Mind you most of this capital will go down the drain, and only a couple of lucky winners will emerge. It's a bit like the 3d accelerator race of the 90s, which started with something like 30 odd companies, and basically ended up with Nvidia and ATI. Maybe the EU will get lucky and produce something people want, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,033
    edited September 2021

    Fishing said:

    The Observer's op-ed on the AUKUS triumph is either a brilliant parody of Remoaner hand-wringing, or else it was dictated by Macron:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/19/observer-view-on-anglo-french-relations-aukus-pact

    Cheese-eating surrender-monkeys....
    Nobody ever says Italy ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elDUT1P07PQ
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555
    glw said:

    The EU doesn't have a single university ranked in the World's top twenty....

    Sorry but your tweet is a reflection of the over militarization of the US foreign policy. Most of the major issues of today and tomorrow are not military: Climate change, trade, artificial intelligence, cyberspace etc. In all these fields, the EU is a superpower.


    https://twitter.com/GerardAraud/status/1439314000714604552?s=20

    PMSL 😂
    Maybe the EU will get lucky and produce something people want, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
    Like with Covid vaccines you mean?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789
    rcs1000 said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    This is why they didn't withdraw ambassadors from the UK. They are desperate to make this seem Australia and US driven. They can't accept Johnson is a major player.
    Surely they didn't remove the ambassador to the UK, because the thing they were upset about was the loss of a €90bn contract from the Australians to the US.
    As has been predicted here, it looks as though in the short term Australia will look at buying off the shelf while it builds up its own capability. That sounds to me like they're going to get a couple of Astutes. The unit price on them is small compared to what the French were charging.

    It's clear that the French are incredibly upset with us but don't want to validate the post Brexit shifting of tides. Their worldview is bring shattered and the EU is not going to help France project its power and ambition globally. That realisation must be very, very difficult for the French to accept.
  • Nigelb said:

    This is an aspect of the deal I think we’ve yet to discuss ?

    https://thebulletin.org/2021/09/the-new-australia-uk-and-us-nuclear-submarine-announcement-a-terrible-decision-for-the-nonproliferation-regime/
    … The United States and UK operate naval reactors in their submarines that are fueled with 93.5 percent enriched uranium (civilian power plants are typically fueled with three to five percent uranium-235) in quantities sufficient to last for the lifetime of their ships (33 years for attack submarines).Having resisted domestic efforts to minimize the use of HEU and convert their naval reactors to LEU fuel, the United States and UK have no alternative fuel to offer. France, on the other hand, now runs naval reactors fueled with LEU. The new Suffren-class submarine, from which the French conventional submarine offered to Australia was derived, even runs on fuel enriched below 6 percent.

    So Australia is likely to receive HEU technology, unless an LEU crash program is launched that could take more than a decade to complete or in a dramatic reversal, France is pulled back into a deal—two scenarios that remain unlikely at this point and at any rate do not solve all proliferation concerns. Assuming the high-enrichment route is followed, if Canberra wants to operate six to 12 nuclear submarines for about 30 years, it will need some three to six tons of HEU. It has none on hand and no domestic capacity to enrich uranium. So unless it kickstarts an enrichment program for military purposes, the material would need to come from the United States or the UK.

    One can only imagine the drops of sweat trickling down the neck of the International Atomic Energy Agency leadership in Vienna when an Australian delegation comes knocking at its door bringing the good news. The agency, which is currently battling to prevent Iran from acquiring enough fissile material to build a nuclear weapon—25 kilograms (0.025 ton) of HEU according to the internationally agreed standard—will have to figure out how to monitor and account for 100 to 200 times that amount without gaining access to secret naval reactor design information. Managing that feat while keeping its credibility intact will be difficult to pull off...

    That's an interesting angle. However, AIUI it may not be much of a problem: the latest reactors have a much longer lifetime without refuelling. There's also a political angle: Australia may not want to have to deal with the expense of refuelling, so may decide the deal includes the US doing that for them, if it is required. That increases the reliance on the US or UK, and makes the boats less independent, but would be much, much cheaper.

    It might be the only significant nuclear material from this deal is the sub reactors themselves.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    edited September 2021

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I just worked out the ambassador thing


    The French can cope with being humiliated and screwed over by America. Because the USA is much bigger. A superpower. Like China. That’s life. Withdraw the ambassador. It’s a mere gesture but it might sting them

    The French can cope with the Australian betrayal (tho it hurts more). The Australians are inferior. A small country with too many kangaroos. Pff! Withdraw the ambassador and try and destabilize their tiny politics

    Britain? Brexit Britain? Perfidious Albion? This is their exact rival, and equal. The country next door that constantly infuriates them even as it intrigues them. This stupid foggy island has totally beaten us?? It’s the pain of Sunderland losing to Newcastle. It is a bitter local rivalry. Withdrawing the French ambassador in London would be acknowledging England’s triumph. It is too painful, so instead they resort to cooking metaphors

    I think there's another layer which is that the French elite are collectively afraid of contemplating the possibility that Boris Johnson was right about the EU. They can't take him seriously, because their own worldview depends on seeing him as a clown.
    The same applies to a great number of posters on this site.
    The PB elite?
    It has been even more noticeable in the post-Brexit years that a section of the liberal left elite have utter contempt for those less educated among sections of the lower w/c especially from the north. Of course it all began with the unfortunate microphone incident with Gordon Brown. It is this above all which has riven the Labour party asunder and it's unclear that they are even on the road to recognising let alone mending this problem. The current treatment of some of their women MPs referred to above is simply the latest example of this problem.
    Yeah the Labour Party hates working class northern women who didn't go to university so much that they (checks notes) elected one as deputy leader.
    Lol - but the only mainstream party yet to have a women leader.....
    Yes but that has nothing to do with changes “post-Brexit” nor with attitudes toward the working class. Your analysis is all over the place this morning.
    Wasn't Margaret Beckett Acting Leader for a short while?
    Technically no, because there is no post of Acting Leader in Labour. So Beckett and later Harman (twice) were leaders of the party and female.

    However, since they were only leaders pending the calling of a special conference to elect a new leader, and were not automatically on the ballot for the election unlike an incumbent leader,* they are not usually included on the list.

    *Although Beckett was nominated and did stand in 1994, coming third.
This discussion has been closed.