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Punters see WH2024 as a re-run of WH2020 – Biden v Trump – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,242

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Which in turn came from the politicians evading their responsibilities to actually legislate, rather than using the judiciary to legislate.
  • Options

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,982



    All hail Gilead. It is coming.

    It would have been better for the USA and everyone else if Trump had won by a clear margin in 2020. No need for the insurrection or the trashing of the democratic process. He'd have happily idled away his second term enriching his family, getting as high as fuck and enjoying the fact that a band plays every time he walks into a room.
  • Options

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924
    Dura_Ace said:



    All hail Gilead. It is coming.

    It would have been better for the USA and everyone else if Trump had won by a clear margin in 2020. No need for the insurrection or the trashing of the democratic process. He'd have happily idled away his second term enriching his family, getting as high as fuck and enjoying the fact that a band plays every time he walks into a room.
    It's a view, I suppose. Although probably no AUKUS, which has the capability for both good and evil in the long term.
  • Options

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    Why do they need Trump.for that? They've got the court, just overturn it.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Trump was probably very upset with his appointees for precisely that reason. It wasnt in their interest to debate themselves to him had the chance arisen. But if states have changed rules and given themselves more ability to lean on the scales would the court not have implicitly accepted that? Much if the baseless cases last time seemed so because it was attacking established processes which they only challenged because Trump lost. Dems will presumably challenge any new republican measures in advance and if they are upheld, well, what next?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645
    Dura_Ace said:



    All hail Gilead. It is coming.

    It would have been better for the USA and everyone else if Trump had won by a clear margin in 2020. No need for the insurrection or the trashing of the democratic process. He'd have happily idled away his second term enriching his family, getting as high as fuck and enjoying the fact that a band plays every time he walks into a room.
    Why do you think he'd stop at two?
  • Options
    Not giving up:

    Australia may buy French nuclear submarines. They will be twice cheaper than the Americans.

    https://twitter.com/GerardAraud/status/1438776084250734594?s=20
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,130
    Pro_Rata said:

    Jonathan said:

    Lost count of how many times people have called Covid over and done with.

    That's because it is over and done with (in a pandemic/lockdown sense). It has been since July and should have been months earlier.

    Lost count of how many times people have said its going to get worse, to no avail.
    Of all the times to declare the pandemic over the beginning of September, and with the hospitals starting multiples fuller of COVID patients than last year, is not it.

    - England went back to school with low initial incidence amongst youngsters, let's see if that is still true 3 or 4 infection cycles.
    - The current fall in incidence substantially relates to transmissions between 5-10/9, when we had a mini heatwave.

    There are things that will suppress rates, the reducing attack face from getting nearer herd immunity, immunity from vaccinations and boosters and so on, but I expect the next couple of months to be up and down, and perhaps more up than down in the next weeks..
    No issue with caution about this, but there is a huge difference between now and 12 months ago. When the cases started rising again in September 2021, the population was to a great extent covid naive, now around 95% of over 18 year olds have either had the virus and recovered or been vaccinated. This is highly significant.
    Its been striking how little we've heard from government and by implication SAGE and the CMO/CSO about why we should accept much higher case numbers and prevalence now, when 12 months ago all the warning alarms were going off and we we about to smash into the wall. Its because now we actively want delta to spread through the unvaxxed and finish the job of vaccination (on those who are too young for vaccines and not much at risk of covid, and also the feckwits out there who have refused the life jacket while punting on the lake). Delta is doing two great jobs. One is its out-competing other variants of concern and the other is finishing the vaccination campaign for free. We really should thank it.*

    *Apologies to any offended by this, if they have lost friends or relatives.
  • Options
    https://www.reuters.com/world/dutch-pm-rutte-invite-britain-join-defence-deal-with-eu-the-times-2021-09-16/

    Interesting timing (although presumably planned without firm knowledge of the AUUKUS announcement). Wonder what the response will be…
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Not giving up:

    Australia may buy French nuclear submarines. They will be twice cheaper than the Americans.

    https://twitter.com/GerardAraud/status/1438776084250734594?s=20

    The fact that nuclear subs was a huge redline for France until the highest bidder changed will also be of huge worry to the US. It sort of proves the point I was making last night.
  • Options
    felix said:

    iSAGE screeching incoming....

    Long Covid less common than feared - ONS study
    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58584558

    Given the lack of research and clear definitions I can see it becoming another tool for the workshy to trot out as well.
    Cool, all the more time to post on PB!
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,847

    Not giving up:

    Australia may buy French nuclear submarines. They will be twice cheaper than the Americans.

    https://twitter.com/GerardAraud/status/1438776084250734594?s=20

    The same French who are adamant they’ll never allow their nuclear technology to be exported?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    edited September 2021

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    Effectively overturning Roe vs Wade is not much at all to do with Trumpism, that's simply a view taken by Trump for political convenience and is much more part of the 'mainstream' GOP philosophy. The GOP will try and make that happen with or without Trump.
  • Options

    Pro_Rata said:

    Jonathan said:

    Lost count of how many times people have called Covid over and done with.

    That's because it is over and done with (in a pandemic/lockdown sense). It has been since July and should have been months earlier.

    Lost count of how many times people have said its going to get worse, to no avail.
    Of all the times to declare the pandemic over the beginning of September, and with the hospitals starting multiples fuller of COVID patients than last year, is not it.

    - England went back to school with low initial incidence amongst youngsters, let's see if that is still true 3 or 4 infection cycles.
    - The current fall in incidence substantially relates to transmissions between 5-10/9, when we had a mini heatwave.

    There are things that will suppress rates, the reducing attack face from getting nearer herd immunity, immunity from vaccinations and boosters and so on, but I expect the next couple of months to be up and down, and perhaps more up than down in the next weeks..
    No issue with caution about this, but there is a huge difference between now and 12 months ago. When the cases started rising again in September 2021, the population was to a great extent covid naive, now around 95% of over 18 year olds have either had the virus and recovered or been vaccinated. This is highly significant.
    Its been striking how little we've heard from government and by implication SAGE and the CMO/CSO about why we should accept much higher case numbers and prevalence now, when 12 months ago all the warning alarms were going off and we we about to smash into the wall. Its because now we actively want delta to spread through the unvaxxed and finish the job of vaccination (on those who are too young for vaccines and not much at risk of covid, and also the feckwits out there who have refused the life jacket while punting on the lake). Delta is doing two great jobs. One is its out-competing other variants of concern and the other is finishing the vaccination campaign for free. We really should thank it.*

    *Apologies to any offended by this, if they have lost friends or relatives.
    You're 100% correct.

    It's why with all due respect Pro Rata, iSAGE and others comparing base rates of Covid now to base rates 12 months ago are not seeing the woods for the trees.

    The issue 12 months ago wasn't that Covid existed, it was it's potential for rapid exponential growth of new cases of Covid reaching those without any immunity to fight it off. With 95% prevalence of antibodies that simply doesn't exist anymore.
  • Options

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    Why do they need Trump.for that? They've got the court, just overturn it.
    Because it isn't just overturn RvsW. Look at Texas. You need to push to control women's rights as well. Whats to stop these uppity feminazis from going to a state where it is legal?

    The GOP have controlled the Supreme Court before. It isn't enough. If they want to rescue the republic from the liberals, the gays, the feminists and the various undesirable races, they need to pass laws.

    I am not saying "all Americans are racist / fascist". Not even remotely all republicans. But there is a Christian fundamentalism where they have a bible that consists of Genesis, Leviticus, some of the fabbier God smites sodomites old testament stories and Revelation. And thats it. This white taliban are all GOPpers and appear to have taken control.
  • Options
    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm going out on a limb:

    The Covid pandemic - in the UK, Western Europe, Canada and most of the US - is now over.

    Antibody levels are now sufficient to keep R below 1 almost everywhere. Now, sure, there will be isolated communities where it can go on a tear, but we've got kids going back to school, and we still have R below 1. And that's great.

    This doesn't mean that everything is over.

    Israel has shown that we are probably going to need Covid booster shots. And teenagers probably should get the shot too.

    In all likelihood, a Covid booster will join the influenza jab every year. But that's OK. It's a manageable problem. And one that probably slowly disappears as everyone ends up - at some point - getting a mild (or maybe entirely asymptomatic) case of the Covids.

    It depends on what you mean by over. It grinds on where I work, with numbers of inpatients and ICU at about a quarter of the February peak. They seem to neither going up nor down by much. Theatre lists are cancelled due to staff redeployments and absences. It will take years to recover, and I have some doubts that we will recover completely at all. Not just the hospitals, but other areas like the courts are years off normality.

    Somethings are better though, a cracking game of football against Napoli last night, albeit shame to let the lead slip to a 2:2 draw.
    The sequelae of Covid will undoubtedly last for years. In the Courts Scottish courts are running more High Courts than ever before but the backlog, especially for multiple accused trials where social distancing is problematic, is huge. I am doing my own modest bit and will be giving a jury speech for the prosecution in another rape case in Stirling this morning but the only realistic way to address the incredible backlog of summary crime is going to be to no pro thousands of cases. No politician has been brave enough to grasp this nettle yet.
    In England (looking at my twitter feed! the situation appears to have got to the point where even the prosecution service is so short of staff that cases are being adjourned due to no prosecution lawyer being available.

    Scheduling is such that there are cases from 2018 which now have court dates for 2023
    Unsustainable.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    Not giving up:

    Australia may buy French nuclear submarines. They will be twice cheaper than the Americans.

    https://twitter.com/GerardAraud/status/1438776084250734594?s=20

    Be a real laugh if the French poke US and their lapdog in the eye , can only hope it goes that way.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited September 2021

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
  • Options

    A court has ruled that if we were to see Prince Phillips will, the Queen would lose her dignity. Makes me wonder what was in the will.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58587147

    "Sir Andrew said: "I have held that, because of the constitutional position of the Sovereign, it is appropriate to have a special practice in relation to royal wills.

    "There is a need to enhance the protection afforded to truly private aspects of the lives of this limited group of individuals in order to maintain the dignity of the Sovereign and close members of her family.""

    ‘Limited group of individual’ brings to mind the royal progeny, and definitely the ‘truly private aspects’ of the life of at least one of them.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,129
    I'm against the betting. My WH24 has no Biden and no Trump. Biden won't be up to/for it and something will happen with Trump that takes him out of play.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    Why do they need Trump.for that? They've got the court, just overturn it.
    Because it isn't just overturn RvsW. Look at Texas. You need to push to control women's rights as well. Whats to stop these uppity feminazis from going to a state where it is legal?

    The GOP have controlled the Supreme Court before. It isn't enough. If they want to rescue the republic from the liberals, the gays, the feminists and the various undesirable races, they need to pass laws.

    I am not saying "all Americans are racist / fascist". Not even remotely all republicans. But there is a Christian fundamentalism where they have a bible that consists of Genesis, Leviticus, some of the fabbier God smites sodomites old testament stories and Revelation. And thats it. This white taliban are all GOPpers and appear to have taken control.
    What does any of that have to do specifically with Trump though ? This is being pushed if Pompeo, Rubio, Haley, Carlson, Cruz or any of the other seven GOP dwarves are challenging for POTUS 2024.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    Effectively overturning Roe vs Wade is not much at all to do with Trumpism, that's simply a view taken by Trump for political convenience and is much more part of the 'mainstream' GOP philosophy. The GOP will try and make that happen with or without Trump.
    On the upside the approach that Texas is being used could be used for other purposes in other states.

    The ability to sue someone for carrying / owning a gun could be used in a whole host of eastern States / California to start an attempt at gun control.
  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    Not giving up:

    Australia may buy French nuclear submarines. They will be twice cheaper than the Americans.

    https://twitter.com/GerardAraud/status/1438776084250734594?s=20

    Be a real laugh if the French poke US and their lapdog in the eye , can only hope it goes that way.
    Vive la république! 🇫🇷
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    My favourite WH bet right now is Biden for the Dem nomination at ~ 2-1.
  • Options

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    Why do they need Trump.for that? They've got the court, just overturn it.
    Because it isn't just overturn RvsW. Look at Texas. You need to push to control women's rights as well. Whats to stop these uppity feminazis from going to a state where it is legal?

    The GOP have controlled the Supreme Court before. It isn't enough. If they want to rescue the republic from the liberals, the gays, the feminists and the various undesirable races, they need to pass laws.

    I am not saying "all Americans are racist / fascist". Not even remotely all republicans. But there is a Christian fundamentalism where they have a bible that consists of Genesis, Leviticus, some of the fabbier God smites sodomites old testament stories and Revelation. And thats it. This white taliban are all GOPpers and appear to have taken control.
    Trump had all three branches before and didn't pass Gilead, why would they expect him to do it this time?
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,982

    Dura_Ace said:



    All hail Gilead. It is coming.

    It would have been better for the USA and everyone else if Trump had won by a clear margin in 2020. No need for the insurrection or the trashing of the democratic process. He'd have happily idled away his second term enriching his family, getting as high as fuck and enjoying the fact that a band plays every time he walks into a room.
    It's a view, I suppose. Although probably no AUKUS, which has the capability for both good and evil in the long term.
    AUKUS is theatre designed to generate 48-72 hours of favourable headlines for Biden, Johnson and the Fella Down Under. It generates no treaty obligations and changes exactly nothing about deployed forces or command structures.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    "States Rights" exist within a constitutional framework - or should do. A state should not have the right to bring back racial segregation, slavery or in this case the middle ages. Their "shop a slag" law makes women sport for predatory "men".
  • Options

    malcolmg said:

    Not giving up:

    Australia may buy French nuclear submarines. They will be twice cheaper than the Americans.

    https://twitter.com/GerardAraud/status/1438776084250734594?s=20

    Be a real laugh if the French poke US and their lapdog in the eye , can only hope it goes that way.
    Vive la république! 🇫🇷
    Twice cheaper.. ffs
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited September 2021

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.
    Trump could even win the election without any shenanigans.

    Mclaughlin this week has Trump beating Biden 50% to 47% and Trump beating Harris 49% to 47%, thus he would also win the popular vote he failed to in 2016 as well as the EC

    https://mclaughlinonline.com/pols/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/MA-National-Survey-Release-September-2021.pdf
  • Options

    malcolmg said:

    Not giving up:

    Australia may buy French nuclear submarines. They will be twice cheaper than the Americans.

    https://twitter.com/GerardAraud/status/1438776084250734594?s=20

    Be a real laugh if the French poke US and their lapdog in the eye , can only hope it goes that way.
    The AUKUS deal probably means jobs in Scotland given what we'll be exporting.

    But you don't care about that do you? You'd rather harm the Scottish economy than see Britain succeed. Truly cutting off your own nose to spite your face.
    Can you say precisely what these jobs in Scotland will be, just so I can see the size of the nose we’d be cutting off?

    Nice change to have Brits suggesting benefits if we stay rather than threatening econogeddon if we leave though. Normal service will be resumed shortly no doubt.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,242
    Northstar said:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/dutch-pm-rutte-invite-britain-join-defence-deal-with-eu-the-times-2021-09-16/

    Interesting timing (although presumably planned without firm knowledge of the AUUKUS announcement). Wonder what the response will be…

    The problem is for such a deal, that German foreign policy is heavily influenced by a groups who see bilateral trade as the overarching issue.

    There was a rather good article in one of the European papers about this - on Ukraine, the attitude was to stop aid to Ukraine and make peace with Russia. On China, placate the Chinese by imposing... dis-benefits on *Taiwan*. The author lamented that this made any kind of stand against China and Russia problematic in a European context.

    So a European component in any such grouping would mean either having to ignore the Germans (how?) or adopt a similar attitude.
  • Options
    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    Effectively overturning Roe vs Wade is not much at all to do with Trumpism, that's simply a view taken by Trump for political convenience and is much more part of the 'mainstream' GOP philosophy. The GOP will try and make that happen with or without Trump.
    On the upside the approach that Texas is being used could be used for other purposes in other states.

    The ability to sue someone for carrying / owning a gun could be used in a whole host of eastern States / California to start an attempt at gun control.
    Not a chance. The SCOTUS has already decided it doesn't need to respect prior case law. They'd rapidly injuct such a law as being unconstitutional while letting the Texan law stand.

    If you don't need case law to be respected consistently then you can just do as you please and screw anyone else. RIP rule of law.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    Why do they need Trump.for that? They've got the court, just overturn it.
    Because it isn't just overturn RvsW. Look at Texas. You need to push to control women's rights as well. Whats to stop these uppity feminazis from going to a state where it is legal?

    The GOP have controlled the Supreme Court before. It isn't enough. If they want to rescue the republic from the liberals, the gays, the feminists and the various undesirable races, they need to pass laws.

    I am not saying "all Americans are racist / fascist". Not even remotely all republicans. But there is a Christian fundamentalism where they have a bible that consists of Genesis, Leviticus, some of the fabbier God smites sodomites old testament stories and Revelation. And thats it. This white taliban are all GOPpers and appear to have taken control.
    What does any of that have to do specifically with Trump though ? This is being pushed if Pompeo, Rubio, Haley, Carlson, Cruz or any of the other seven GOP dwarves are challenging for POTUS 2024.
    Because only Trump can motivate the voters. If anuses like Cruz had that kind of power they would already have been president.

    Trump believes in Trump. He doesn't care about the rest as long as he is Loved. So he will adopt whatever they want and make it his own - the only chance they have of hard right bat-shitism being elected is to insert it into a populist programme.
  • Options

    malcolmg said:

    Not giving up:

    Australia may buy French nuclear submarines. They will be twice cheaper than the Americans.

    https://twitter.com/GerardAraud/status/1438776084250734594?s=20

    Be a real laugh if the French poke US and their lapdog in the eye , can only hope it goes that way.
    Vive la république! 🇫🇷
    We can add in the French. FUKUSA perhaps.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,242

    malcolmg said:

    Not giving up:

    Australia may buy French nuclear submarines. They will be twice cheaper than the Americans.

    https://twitter.com/GerardAraud/status/1438776084250734594?s=20

    Be a real laugh if the French poke US and their lapdog in the eye , can only hope it goes that way.
    Vive la république! 🇫🇷
    Twice cheaper.. ffs
    Given triumphs like the French aircraft carrier, I'd be interested to see the rationale for that kind of pricing.

    Some interesting history here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubis-class_submarine#Proposed_Canada_class
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,909
    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As someone who supported Trump’s candidacy in 2020, we could have predicted you would say that. In fact, you said it last time and - sorry to break it to you - the Ray-Bans won.

    Thoughts and prayers, etc.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.
    Trump could even win the election without any shenanigans.

    Mclaughlin this week has Trump beating Biden 50% to 47% and Trump beating Harris 49% to 47%, thus he would also win the popular vote he failed to in 2016 as well as the EC

    https://mclaughlinonline.com/pols/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/MA-National-Survey-Release-September-2021.pdf
    538 rates them C/D
    Polls analyzed 27
    Races called correctly 69%
    Most recent cycle 2018
    Affiliated with professional polling organization (NCPP/AAPOR/Roper) No
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited September 2021

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    "States Rights" exist within a constitutional framework - or should do. A state should not have the right to bring back racial segregation, slavery or in this case the middle ages. Their "shop a slag" law makes women sport for predatory "men".
    I would have thought abortion on demand is far more likely to do make women sport for predatory men who can have sex without consequence or risk of her getting pregnant.

    Restricting abortion to the first 6 weeks of pregnancy is also hardly the middle ages nor is it slavery. Personally I would leave it a little longer and restrict it after 15-20 weeks rather than the 24 we now have in the UK but Texas can make its own mind up
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,321
    Russian elections coming up (yes, I know). The thing to remember about them is that they are ludicrously biased in terms of media coverage, plus exclusion of hostile candidates, but they are not usually rigged, so the figures will tell us something about how well Puiin is doing in hanging onto popular support (spoiler: not well). The system is a blend of FPTP and PR, and Putin will need to do seriously badly not to win nearly all the first half. This is a good article on them:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/17/russians-head-to-the-polls-amid-anger-over-economy-and-covid

    and these are the current polls:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2021_Russian_legislative_election

    That latest poll (taken a week ago) appears to show a close race, but following the CIPKR link appears to lead to a communist website (others who read Russian beter may be able to say more definitely), so maybe to be disregarded. But even the previous polls look depressing for Putin.

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    Why do they need Trump.for that? They've got the court, just overturn it.
    Because it isn't just overturn RvsW. Look at Texas. You need to push to control women's rights as well. Whats to stop these uppity feminazis from going to a state where it is legal?

    The GOP have controlled the Supreme Court before. It isn't enough. If they want to rescue the republic from the liberals, the gays, the feminists and the various undesirable races, they need to pass laws.

    I am not saying "all Americans are racist / fascist". Not even remotely all republicans. But there is a Christian fundamentalism where they have a bible that consists of Genesis, Leviticus, some of the fabbier God smites sodomites old testament stories and Revelation. And thats it. This white taliban are all GOPpers and appear to have taken control.
    Trump had all three branches before and didn't pass Gilead, why would they expect him to do it this time?
    Suppose, just suppose, that it's possible to find a woman who had an abortion paid for by Trump. Or one of his sons.
  • Options

    malcolmg said:

    Not giving up:

    Australia may buy French nuclear submarines. They will be twice cheaper than the Americans.

    https://twitter.com/GerardAraud/status/1438776084250734594?s=20

    Be a real laugh if the French poke US and their lapdog in the eye , can only hope it goes that way.
    The AUKUS deal probably means jobs in Scotland given what we'll be exporting.

    But you don't care about that do you? You'd rather harm the Scottish economy than see Britain succeed. Truly cutting off your own nose to spite your face.
    Can you say precisely what these jobs in Scotland will be, just so I can see the size of the nose we’d be cutting off?

    Nice change to have Brits suggesting benefits if we stay rather than threatening econogeddon if we leave though. Normal service will be resumed shortly no doubt.
    I still think you'd be better off if you leave, but I don't wish to see either Britain or Scotland or England fail to achieve that.

    Similarly I wish the EU well and want them to succeed not fail. They are our closest neighbours and trading partners and will remain such in the future just as England would be for an indy Scotland.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,495
    edited September 2021

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    Effectively overturning Roe vs Wade is not much at all to do with Trumpism, that's simply a view taken by Trump for political convenience and is much more part of the 'mainstream' GOP philosophy. The GOP will try and make that happen with or without Trump.
    On the upside the approach that Texas is being used could be used for other purposes in other states.

    The ability to sue someone for carrying / owning a gun could be used in a whole host of eastern States / California to start an attempt at gun control.
    Not a chance. The SCOTUS has already decided it doesn't need to respect prior case law. They'd rapidly injuct such a law as being unconstitutional while letting the Texan law stand.

    If you don't need case law to be respected consistently then you can just do as you please and screw anyone else. RIP rule of law.
    It is, as they say, slightly more complicated than that. For the UK see, for example, this from 1966:


    Their Lordships regard the use of precedent as an indispensable foundation upon which to decide what is the law and its application to individual cases. It provides at least some degree of certainty upon which individuals can rely in the conduct of their affairs, as well as a basis for orderly development of legal rules.

    Their Lordships nevertheless recognise that too rigid adherence to precedent may lead to injustice in a particular case and also unduly restrict the proper development of the law. They propose therefore, to modify their present practice and, while treating formal decisions of this house as normally binding, to depart from a previous decision when it appears to be right to do so.

    In this connection they will bear in mind the danger of disturbing retrospectively the basis on which contracts, settlement of property, and fiscal arrangements have been entered into and also the especial need for certainty as to the criminal law. This announcement is not intended to affect the use of precedent elsewhere than in this House.

    The Practice Statement of 1966
    Note that this does not mean that it was intended that the House of Lords would depart from earlier decisions on a regular basis. Indeed since 1966 the House of Lords have only departed from their own past decisions on a handful of occasions.

    A good example occurs in the law of tort where the House of Lords in Murphy v. Brentwood [1991] 1 AC 398 overruled the earlier decision of the House of Lords in Anns v. Merton [1978] AC 728. The Practice statement was not intended to change the rules for courts other than the House of Lords.


  • Options
    Dura_Ace said:



    All hail Gilead. It is coming.

    It would have been better for the USA and everyone else if Trump had won by a clear margin in 2020. No need for the insurrection or the trashing of the democratic process. He'd have happily idled away his second term enriching his family, getting as high as fuck and enjoying the fact that a band plays every time he walks into a room.
    Great for Trump, shame about the rest of the USA and world.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,909
    Re: the Is it over? debate, I think it probably is over in terms of lockdownism, at least down here.

    London is absolutely buzzing, there would appear to be no appetite for being locked up again. Even mask wearing is dwindling towards nil. So even if more hawkish places have mini lockdowns, I doubt it will happen here.

    Just purely a hunch based on what I have seen. Very dovish. Extremely so. Londoners want to party.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.
    Trump could even win the election without any shenanigans.

    Mclaughlin this week has Trump beating Biden 50% to 47% and Trump beating Harris 49% to 47%, thus he would also win the popular vote he failed to in 2016 as well as the EC

    https://mclaughlinonline.com/pols/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/MA-National-Survey-Release-September-2021.pdf
    538 rates them C/D
    Polls analyzed 27
    Races called correctly 69%
    Most recent cycle 2018
    Affiliated with professional polling organization (NCPP/AAPOR/Roper) No
    538 also has Biden's approval rating on average down to just 45.7% with 48.8% disapproval, so it reflects the trend

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077
    I had an application ready to go (with @Cyclefree ’s help, which was much appreciated) to the CPS’s grad scheme to work as a prosecuting solicitor and at the last minute they pulled all north-east based places. 🤷‍♂️
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Trump was probably very upset with his appointees for precisely that reason. It wasnt in their interest to debate themselves to him had the chance arisen. But if states have changed rules and given themselves more ability to lean on the scales would the court not have implicitly accepted that? Much if the baseless cases last time seemed so because it was attacking established processes which they only challenged because Trump lost. Dems will presumably challenge any new republican measures in advance and if they are upheld, well, what next?
    Legislatures trying to put their thumbs on the scales happens every time, and they pull it off at the margins. The main check on that is state courts, since they're mostly elected statewide so even where they lean towards one party some of them tend not want to rile up the other side too much.

    I think the bigger issue for 2024 is the House, since the Speaker potentially has a lot of power.
  • Options
    NorthstarNorthstar Posts: 140
    edited September 2021

    Northstar said:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/dutch-pm-rutte-invite-britain-join-defence-deal-with-eu-the-times-2021-09-16/

    Interesting timing (although presumably planned without firm knowledge of the AUUKUS announcement). Wonder what the response will be…

    The problem is for such a deal, that German foreign policy is heavily influenced by a groups who see bilateral trade as the overarching issue.

    There was a rather good article in one of the European papers about this - on Ukraine, the attitude was to stop aid to Ukraine and make peace with Russia. On China, placate the Chinese by imposing... dis-benefits on *Taiwan*. The author lamented that this made any kind of stand against China and Russia problematic in a European context.

    So a European component in any such grouping would mean either having to ignore the Germans (how?) or adopt a similar attitude.
    Agreed - on that topic there’s a good CNN article on how AUUKUS has torpedoed the EU’s ‘balancing act’ strategy re: China.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/16/world/aukus-leaves-europe-in-the-cold-intl-cmd/index.html
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited September 2021

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    "States Rights" exist within a constitutional framework - or should do. A state should not have the right to bring back racial segregation, slavery or in this case the middle ages. Their "shop a slag" law makes women sport for predatory "men".
    I would have thought abortion on demand is far more likely to do make women sport for predatory men who can have sex without consequence or risk of her getting pregnant.

    Restricting abortion to the first 6 weeks of pregnancy is also hardly the middle ages nor is it slavery. Personally I would leave it a little longer and restrict it after 15-20 weeks rather than the 24 we now have in the UK but Texas can make its own mind up
    You're batshit crazy.

    Pregnancy tests won't reveal a pregnancy until 4 or 5 weeks in. Many women won't realise they're pregnant until past the six week mark!

    Heck the moment of conception is about two weeks in. In week one "of a pregnancy" the woman isn't even pregnant yet since the clock starts at last period, not at moment of conception.

    So you're really talking maybe one week of eligibility. If you're lucky. Zero for many women.
    Given 50% of Texans want to make abortion completely illegal to only 45% who want it legal, pro choice activists are lucky to even get 6 weeks there
    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,909
    Dura_Ace said:



    All hail Gilead. It is coming.

    It would have been better for the USA and everyone else if Trump had won by a clear margin in 2020. No need for the insurrection or the trashing of the democratic process. He'd have happily idled away his second term enriching his family, getting as high as fuck and enjoying the fact that a band plays every time he walks into a room.
    There are niche websites for your Trumptonite fetishes. Go and indulge your fantasies away from prying eyes.
  • Options
    I know a woman who desperately wanted to be a mother and who had an abortion that was absolutely heartbreaking for her, but she felt she needed it. She carries an extremely rare gene that is fatal to all males if they're born with it. Her brother died a horrible and painful death at 12 year old and medicine hasn't progressed for that disorder, she said she couldn't bring a child into the world only to suffer like that.

    First pregnancy had tests and showed the foetus was male. So had further tests and showed it had the gene so she an abortion and was absolutely heartbroken for months even though she knew in her mind she had done the right thing.

    Next child was female (so safe, gene doesn't affect women) and second and final pregnancy male but without the gene.

    The Texan law not only prohibits people from getting an abortion from before the point they could realise they're pregnant, it also prohibits all testing and screening.
  • Options
    Background on nuclear propulsion:

    https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/non-power-nuclear-applications/transport/nuclear-powered-ships.aspx

    I hadn't realised how closely the US & UK worked - and its not a one-way street as some have claimed....
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,242
    Northstar said:

    Northstar said:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/dutch-pm-rutte-invite-britain-join-defence-deal-with-eu-the-times-2021-09-16/

    Interesting timing (although presumably planned without firm knowledge of the AUUKUS announcement). Wonder what the response will be…

    The problem is for such a deal, that German foreign policy is heavily influenced by a groups who see bilateral trade as the overarching issue.

    There was a rather good article in one of the European papers about this - on Ukraine, the attitude was to stop aid to Ukraine and make peace with Russia. On China, placate the Chinese by imposing... dis-benefits on *Taiwan*. The author lamented that this made any kind of stand against China and Russia problematic in a European context.

    So a European component in any such grouping would mean either having to ignore the Germans (how?) or adopt a similar attitude.
    Agreed - on that topic there’s a good CNN article on how AUUKUS has torpedoed the EU’s ‘balancing act’ strategy re: China.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/16/australia/australia-china-us-aukus-submarine-intl-hnk/index.html
    One problem is the nature of Chinese involvement in Australian politics - they see it as their right to buy politicians, buy influence in the universities to silence pro-Taiwan voices etc. To them, friendly equals accepting this.

    So the Australia government would either have to accept that, or be seen as "hostile" to China.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,982
    How many flegs do you want on this, sir?
    All of them.



  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378

    Hopefully both parties realise that neither should be anywhere near the race....one can hardly remember the day of the week and the other one …

    … wants to rename every day Trumpday.
  • Options

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?

    Roberts is not the issue. In a normal SCOTUS he would be the swing vote. In this one, he is not. That is the issue. The real test for SCOTUS will be the cases it hears (or declines to hear) following a contested presidential election.

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    "States Rights" exist within a constitutional framework - or should do. A state should not have the right to bring back racial segregation, slavery or in this case the middle ages. Their "shop a slag" law makes women sport for predatory "men".
    I would have thought abortion on demand is far more likely to do make women sport for predatory men who can have sex without consequence or risk of her getting pregnant.

    Restricting abortion to the first 6 weeks of pregnancy is also hardly the middle ages nor is it slavery. Personally I would leave it a little longer and restrict it after 15-20 weeks rather than the 24 we now have in the UK but Texas can make its own mind up
    You're batshit crazy.

    Pregnancy tests won't reveal a pregnancy until 4 or 5 weeks in. Many women won't realise they're pregnant until past the six week mark!

    Heck the moment of conception is about two weeks in. In week one "of a pregnancy" the woman isn't even pregnant yet since the clock starts at last period, not at moment of conception.

    So you're really talking maybe one week of eligibility. If you're lucky. Zero for many women.
    Given 50% of Texans want to make abortion completely illegal to only 45% who want it legal, pro choice activists are lucky to even get 6 weeks there
    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    The list is a bit ill defined - there's a huge difference between "all" & "most" cases in my view (Chromosomal abnormalities aren't found till weeks 11 - 14 for instance)
  • Options

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    Why do they need Trump.for that? They've got the court, just overturn it.
    Because it isn't just overturn RvsW. Look at Texas. You need to push to control women's rights as well. Whats to stop these uppity feminazis from going to a state where it is legal?

    The GOP have controlled the Supreme Court before. It isn't enough. If they want to rescue the republic from the liberals, the gays, the feminists and the various undesirable races, they need to pass laws.

    I am not saying "all Americans are racist / fascist". Not even remotely all republicans. But there is a Christian fundamentalism where they have a bible that consists of Genesis, Leviticus, some of the fabbier God smites sodomites old testament stories and Revelation. And thats it. This white taliban are all GOPpers and appear to have taken control.
    Trump had all three branches before and didn't pass Gilead, why would they expect him to do it this time?
    What other options do they have short of an actual coup?
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    "States Rights" exist within a constitutional framework - or should do. A state should not have the right to bring back racial segregation, slavery or in this case the middle ages. Their "shop a slag" law makes women sport for predatory "men".
    I would have thought abortion on demand is far more likely to do make women sport for predatory men who can have sex without consequence or risk of her getting pregnant.

    Restricting abortion to the first 6 weeks of pregnancy is also hardly the middle ages nor is it slavery. Personally I would leave it a little longer and restrict it after 15-20 weeks rather than the 24 we now have in the UK but Texas can make its own mind up
    You're batshit crazy.

    Pregnancy tests won't reveal a pregnancy until 4 or 5 weeks in. Many women won't realise they're pregnant until past the six week mark!

    Heck the moment of conception is about two weeks in. In week one "of a pregnancy" the woman isn't even pregnant yet since the clock starts at last period, not at moment of conception.

    So you're really talking maybe one week of eligibility. If you're lucky. Zero for many women.
    Given 50% of Texans want to make abortion completely illegal to only 45% who want it legal, pro choice activists are lucky to even get 6 weeks there
    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    And if 50% of Texans wanted blacks to be 2/3rds of a person and enslaved?

    Women aren't lucky to control their own bodies, it's their human rights.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,592

    I know a woman who desperately wanted to be a mother and who had an abortion that was absolutely heartbreaking for her, but she felt she needed it. She carries an extremely rare gene that is fatal to all males if they're born with it. Her brother died a horrible and painful death at 12 year old and medicine hasn't progressed for that disorder, she said she couldn't bring a child into the world only to suffer like that.

    First pregnancy had tests and showed the foetus was male. So had further tests and showed it had the gene so she an abortion and was absolutely heartbroken for months even though she knew in her mind she had done the right thing.

    Next child was female (so safe, gene doesn't affect women) and second and final pregnancy male but without the gene.

    The Texan law not only prohibits people from getting an abortion from before the point they could realise they're pregnant, it also prohibits all testing and screening.

    Do females not have a 50% chance of carrying the gene? The concern is that she might be putting her daughter into the same predicament 20-30 years down the line.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378

    rcs1000 said:

    Health Canada announced on Thursday that the three COVID-19 vaccines currently approved for use in the country will now go by new names. "The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine will now be named Comirnaty, the Moderna vaccine will be named SpikeVax, and the AstraZeneca vaccine will be named Vaxzevria," according to the announcement.

    I think they should have been called SheMirnaty, SheVax and SheZevira.

    More seriously, WTF, why are they doing this?

    Because those are the official brand names for those drugs.
    But why do this now? Everybody has heard of the other names, these weird brand names, surely it will confuse people.
    You just don’t understand pharmaceutical brand names.

    And neither does anyone else.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,966
    edited September 2021
    If St Andrew’s can educate the Hanoverian genes to a 2:1, very well deserved.

    https://twitter.com/alasdair_clark/status/1438779001363996674?s=21
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,229
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    "States Rights" exist within a constitutional framework - or should do. A state should not have the right to bring back racial segregation, slavery or in this case the middle ages. Their "shop a slag" law makes women sport for predatory "men".
    I would have thought abortion on demand is far more likely to do make women sport for predatory men who can have sex without consequence or risk of her getting pregnant.

    Restricting abortion to the first 6 weeks of pregnancy is also hardly the middle ages nor is it slavery. Personally I would leave it a little longer and restrict it after 15-20 weeks rather than the 24 we now have in the UK but Texas can make its own mind up
    You're batshit crazy.

    Pregnancy tests won't reveal a pregnancy until 4 or 5 weeks in. Many women won't realise they're pregnant until past the six week mark!

    Heck the moment of conception is about two weeks in. In week one "of a pregnancy" the woman isn't even pregnant yet since the clock starts at last period, not at moment of conception.

    So you're really talking maybe one week of eligibility. If you're lucky. Zero for many women.
    Given 50% of Texans want to make abortion completely illegal to only 45% who want it legal, pro choice activists are lucky to even get 6 weeks there
    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    Wrong. You only get to 50% by adding "illegal in all cases" to "illegal in most cases".
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    "States Rights" exist within a constitutional framework - or should do. A state should not have the right to bring back racial segregation, slavery or in this case the middle ages. Their "shop a slag" law makes women sport for predatory "men".
    I would have thought abortion on demand is far more likely to do make women sport for predatory men who can have sex without consequence or risk of her getting pregnant.

    Restricting abortion to the first 6 weeks of pregnancy is also hardly the middle ages nor is it slavery. Personally I would leave it a little longer and restrict it after 15-20 weeks rather than the 24 we now have in the UK but Texas can make its own mind up
    You're batshit crazy.

    Pregnancy tests won't reveal a pregnancy until 4 or 5 weeks in. Many women won't realise they're pregnant until past the six week mark!

    Heck the moment of conception is about two weeks in. In week one "of a pregnancy" the woman isn't even pregnant yet since the clock starts at last period, not at moment of conception.

    So you're really talking maybe one week of eligibility. If you're lucky. Zero for many women.
    Given 50% of Texans want to make abortion completely illegal to only 45% who want it legal, pro choice activists are lucky to even get 6 weeks there
    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    And if 50% of Texans wanted blacks to be 2/3rds of a person and enslaved?

    Women aren't lucky to control their own bodies, it's their human rights.
    The unborn child also has rights, precisely the opposite of slavery
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,592
    edited September 2021

    malcolmg said:

    Not giving up:

    Australia may buy French nuclear submarines. They will be twice cheaper than the Americans.

    https://twitter.com/GerardAraud/status/1438776084250734594?s=20

    Be a real laugh if the French poke US and their lapdog in the eye , can only hope it goes that way.
    The AUKUS deal probably means jobs in Scotland given what we'll be exporting.

    But you don't care about that do you? You'd rather harm the Scottish economy than see Britain succeed. Truly cutting off your own nose to spite your face.
    Can you say precisely what these jobs in Scotland will be, just so I can see the size of the nose we’d be cutting off?

    Nice change to have Brits suggesting benefits if we stay rather than threatening econogeddon if we leave though. Normal service will be resumed shortly no doubt.
    UK subs are built in Barrow. No guarantee that the Aussie subs will be built in the UK (unless ofr course they are from the existing MoD order for the RN, as DA sapiently suggested might be the case: edit: would then be to no net benefit for anyone south or north of the border).

    Edit: can't think offhand of any bits of specialist kit made in Scotland, except certain hydraulics.
  • Options
    Dura_Ace said:

    How many flegs do you want on this, sir?
    All of them.



    Shockingly unpatriotic weapons load.
    If they can just get on enough patriotic paint, it stops being a Eurofighter - FACT
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,592
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    "States Rights" exist within a constitutional framework - or should do. A state should not have the right to bring back racial segregation, slavery or in this case the middle ages. Their "shop a slag" law makes women sport for predatory "men".
    I would have thought abortion on demand is far more likely to do make women sport for predatory men who can have sex without consequence or risk of her getting pregnant.

    Restricting abortion to the first 6 weeks of pregnancy is also hardly the middle ages nor is it slavery. Personally I would leave it a little longer and restrict it after 15-20 weeks rather than the 24 we now have in the UK but Texas can make its own mind up
    You're batshit crazy.

    Pregnancy tests won't reveal a pregnancy until 4 or 5 weeks in. Many women won't realise they're pregnant until past the six week mark!

    Heck the moment of conception is about two weeks in. In week one "of a pregnancy" the woman isn't even pregnant yet since the clock starts at last period, not at moment of conception.

    So you're really talking maybe one week of eligibility. If you're lucky. Zero for many women.
    Given 50% of Texans want to make abortion completely illegal to only 45% who want it legal, pro choice activists are lucky to even get 6 weeks there
    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    Wrong. You only get to 50% by adding "illegal in all cases" to "illegal in most cases".
    He's also wrong about 50% of Texans surely - children, DNV etc. And that is opinion polling not a referendum.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,141
    edited September 2021

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    Why do they need Trump.for that? They've got the court, just overturn it.
    Because it isn't just overturn RvsW. Look at Texas. You need to push to control women's rights as well. Whats to stop these uppity feminazis from going to a state where it is legal?

    The GOP have controlled the Supreme Court before. It isn't enough. If they want to rescue the republic from the liberals, the gays, the feminists and the various undesirable races, they need to pass laws.

    I am not saying "all Americans are racist / fascist". Not even remotely all republicans. But there is a Christian fundamentalism where they have a bible that consists of Genesis, Leviticus, some of the fabbier God smites sodomites old testament stories and Revelation. And thats it. This white taliban are all GOPpers and appear to have taken control.
    Trump had all three branches before and didn't pass Gilead, why would they expect him to do it this time?
    What other options do they have short of an actual coup?
    Since Trump has a basically zero probability of passing what you're suggesting a better bet would be to preserve the republic and hold out for a Christian Conservative who can actually pass legislation. Meanwhile they have a majority on the court so they can chisel away at the right to abortion without doing anything drastic enough to rile up the opposition too much, which is what they're actually doing.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,592
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Health Canada announced on Thursday that the three COVID-19 vaccines currently approved for use in the country will now go by new names. "The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine will now be named Comirnaty, the Moderna vaccine will be named SpikeVax, and the AstraZeneca vaccine will be named Vaxzevria," according to the announcement.

    I think they should have been called SheMirnaty, SheVax and SheZevira.

    More seriously, WTF, why are they doing this?

    Because those are the official brand names for those drugs.
    But why do this now? Everybody has heard of the other names, these weird brand names, surely it will confuse people.
    You just don’t understand pharmaceutical brand names.

    And neither does anyone else.
    In any case, surely AZ etc will develop new vaccines which will need new names. And we can't call them all AZ.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    "States Rights" exist within a constitutional framework - or should do. A state should not have the right to bring back racial segregation, slavery or in this case the middle ages. Their "shop a slag" law makes women sport for predatory "men".
    I would have thought abortion on demand is far more likely to do make women sport for predatory men who can have sex without consequence or risk of her getting pregnant.

    Restricting abortion to the first 6 weeks of pregnancy is also hardly the middle ages nor is it slavery. Personally I would leave it a little longer and restrict it after 15-20 weeks rather than the 24 we now have in the UK but Texas can make its own mind up
    You're batshit crazy.

    Pregnancy tests won't reveal a pregnancy until 4 or 5 weeks in. Many women won't realise they're pregnant until past the six week mark!

    Heck the moment of conception is about two weeks in. In week one "of a pregnancy" the woman isn't even pregnant yet since the clock starts at last period, not at moment of conception.

    So you're really talking maybe one week of eligibility. If you're lucky. Zero for many women.
    Given 50% of Texans want to make abortion completely illegal to only 45% who want it legal, pro choice activists are lucky to even get 6 weeks there
    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    And if 50% of Texans wanted blacks to be 2/3rds of a person and enslaved?

    Women aren't lucky to control their own bodies, it's their human rights.
    The unborn child also has rights, precisely the opposite of slavery
    No, they don't. The woman has rights, the foetus has rights when it draws it is born and draws its first breath.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378
    .

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.
    It wasn't really the constitution, the last few weeks were basically a coup d'etat where the military and everyone else just decided that Trump might technically be president but they were just going to ignore him.
    In what way was it a coup ?
    Please give instances, as unless valid executive orders were refused, that’s simply wrong.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    "States Rights" exist within a constitutional framework - or should do. A state should not have the right to bring back racial segregation, slavery or in this case the middle ages. Their "shop a slag" law makes women sport for predatory "men".
    I would have thought abortion on demand is far more likely to do make women sport for predatory men who can have sex without consequence or risk of her getting pregnant.

    Restricting abortion to the first 6 weeks of pregnancy is also hardly the middle ages nor is it slavery. Personally I would leave it a little longer and restrict it after 15-20 weeks rather than the 24 we now have in the UK but Texas can make its own mind up
    You're batshit crazy.

    Pregnancy tests won't reveal a pregnancy until 4 or 5 weeks in. Many women won't realise they're pregnant until past the six week mark!

    Heck the moment of conception is about two weeks in. In week one "of a pregnancy" the woman isn't even pregnant yet since the clock starts at last period, not at moment of conception.

    So you're really talking maybe one week of eligibility. If you're lucky. Zero for many women.
    Given 50% of Texans want to make abortion completely illegal to only 45% who want it legal, pro choice activists are lucky to even get 6 weeks there
    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    And if 50% of Texans wanted blacks to be 2/3rds of a person and enslaved?

    Women aren't lucky to control their own bodies, it's their human rights.
    The unborn child also has rights, precisely the opposite of slavery
    No, they don't. The woman has rights, the foetus has rights when it draws it is born and draws its first breath.
    Yes they do and certainly the foetus becomes a living, sentient being well before birth. The only question is what time it does
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,229
    Carnyx said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    "States Rights" exist within a constitutional framework - or should do. A state should not have the right to bring back racial segregation, slavery or in this case the middle ages. Their "shop a slag" law makes women sport for predatory "men".
    I would have thought abortion on demand is far more likely to do make women sport for predatory men who can have sex without consequence or risk of her getting pregnant.

    Restricting abortion to the first 6 weeks of pregnancy is also hardly the middle ages nor is it slavery. Personally I would leave it a little longer and restrict it after 15-20 weeks rather than the 24 we now have in the UK but Texas can make its own mind up
    You're batshit crazy.

    Pregnancy tests won't reveal a pregnancy until 4 or 5 weeks in. Many women won't realise they're pregnant until past the six week mark!

    Heck the moment of conception is about two weeks in. In week one "of a pregnancy" the woman isn't even pregnant yet since the clock starts at last period, not at moment of conception.

    So you're really talking maybe one week of eligibility. If you're lucky. Zero for many women.
    Given 50% of Texans want to make abortion completely illegal to only 45% who want it legal, pro choice activists are lucky to even get 6 weeks there
    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    Wrong. You only get to 50% by adding "illegal in all cases" to "illegal in most cases".
    He's also wrong about 50% of Texans surely - children, DNV etc. And that is opinion polling not a referendum.
    Yes, but even according to the opinion poll HYUFD linked to (extrapolating from national figures as I can't find the breakdown for Texas), there is an overwhelming majority in favour of abortion being either "legal in most cases" or "illegal in most cases" ie legal in some cases NOT "completely illegal". In other words there is a big majority who are in complete agreement that it is a question of where you draw the line, as any mature person would agree imho.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    I know a woman who desperately wanted to be a mother and who had an abortion that was absolutely heartbreaking for her, but she felt she needed it. She carries an extremely rare gene that is fatal to all males if they're born with it. Her brother died a horrible and painful death at 12 year old and medicine hasn't progressed for that disorder, she said she couldn't bring a child into the world only to suffer like that.

    First pregnancy had tests and showed the foetus was male. So had further tests and showed it had the gene so she an abortion and was absolutely heartbroken for months even though she knew in her mind she had done the right thing.

    Next child was female (so safe, gene doesn't affect women) and second and final pregnancy male but without the gene.

    The Texan law not only prohibits people from getting an abortion from before the point they could realise they're pregnant, it also prohibits all testing and screening.

    Do females not have a 50% chance of carrying the gene? The concern is that she might be putting her daughter into the same predicament 20-30 years down the line.
    They do and I've not enquired further about whether she screened her daughter or not. She may have done but she never mentioned it and I respected her privacy.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    "States Rights" exist within a constitutional framework - or should do. A state should not have the right to bring back racial segregation, slavery or in this case the middle ages. Their "shop a slag" law makes women sport for predatory "men".
    I would have thought abortion on demand is far more likely to do make women sport for predatory men who can have sex without consequence or risk of her getting pregnant.

    Restricting abortion to the first 6 weeks of pregnancy is also hardly the middle ages nor is it slavery. Personally I would leave it a little longer and restrict it after 15-20 weeks rather than the 24 we now have in the UK but Texas can make its own mind up
    You're batshit crazy.

    Pregnancy tests won't reveal a pregnancy until 4 or 5 weeks in. Many women won't realise they're pregnant until past the six week mark!

    Heck the moment of conception is about two weeks in. In week one "of a pregnancy" the woman isn't even pregnant yet since the clock starts at last period, not at moment of conception.

    So you're really talking maybe one week of eligibility. If you're lucky. Zero for many women.
    Given 50% of Texans want to make abortion completely illegal to only 45% who want it legal, pro choice activists are lucky to even get 6 weeks there
    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    Wrong. You only get to 50% by adding "illegal in all cases" to "illegal in most cases".
    The exceptions being a few cases like protecting the life of the mother, abortion would still be illegal otherwise from pregnancy
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,592

    Carnyx said:

    I know a woman who desperately wanted to be a mother and who had an abortion that was absolutely heartbreaking for her, but she felt she needed it. She carries an extremely rare gene that is fatal to all males if they're born with it. Her brother died a horrible and painful death at 12 year old and medicine hasn't progressed for that disorder, she said she couldn't bring a child into the world only to suffer like that.

    First pregnancy had tests and showed the foetus was male. So had further tests and showed it had the gene so she an abortion and was absolutely heartbroken for months even though she knew in her mind she had done the right thing.

    Next child was female (so safe, gene doesn't affect women) and second and final pregnancy male but without the gene.

    The Texan law not only prohibits people from getting an abortion from before the point they could realise they're pregnant, it also prohibits all testing and screening.

    Do females not have a 50% chance of carrying the gene? The concern is that she might be putting her daughter into the same predicament 20-30 years down the line.
    They do and I've not enquired further about whether she screened her daughter or not. She may have done but she never mentioned it and I respected her privacy.
    That makes entire sense, thanks.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,157
    edited September 2021
    Off topic and of interest mainly to me because it helps me not feel entirely helpless or alone.

    The Cyclefree Walnut-in-Throat Saga (cont'd).

    Husband still unable to swallow. Or sleep much either. I joined him in the insomnia and saw a beautiful dawn.

    Turns out that the stuff the hospital suggested - Buscopan - needs to be swallowed whole. Which is not much bloody use for a man who is at the hospital because he cannot swallow. And who now has a sore throat on top of everything else. And is losing his voice.

    Meanwhile no sign of the urgent referral to ENT doctors.

    I know we are all meant to worship at the altar of the NHS and they do heroic stuff etc and have been worked off their feet for the last year and a half. One doesn't want to be a nuisance like the fat girl eating chocolate lollies before complaining about all her fatness-related problems. I get all that. But not being able to swallow properly or eat is a bit sub-optimal, to be honest.

    Himself is not one for doctors or hospitals. He had to be dragged kicking and screaming there when his oxygen levels got low when he had Covid. Not this time. He's worried and uncomfortable. And so am I. And now it's Friday and the weekend and so nothing will happen unless it happens today.

    Aaaargh!
  • Options

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?

    Roberts is not the issue. In a normal SCOTUS he would be the swing vote. In this one, he is not. That is the issue. The real test for SCOTUS will be the cases it hears (or declines to hear) following a contested presidential election.

    The Dems should be trying to get Breyer (the oldest justice at 83) to retire, while they still control the WH and the Senate. They can't afford for another Ginsburg situation to happen
  • Options
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    "States Rights" exist within a constitutional framework - or should do. A state should not have the right to bring back racial segregation, slavery or in this case the middle ages. Their "shop a slag" law makes women sport for predatory "men".
    I would have thought abortion on demand is far more likely to do make women sport for predatory men who can have sex without consequence or risk of her getting pregnant.

    Restricting abortion to the first 6 weeks of pregnancy is also hardly the middle ages nor is it slavery. Personally I would leave it a little longer and restrict it after 15-20 weeks rather than the 24 we now have in the UK but Texas can make its own mind up
    You're batshit crazy.

    Pregnancy tests won't reveal a pregnancy until 4 or 5 weeks in. Many women won't realise they're pregnant until past the six week mark!

    Heck the moment of conception is about two weeks in. In week one "of a pregnancy" the woman isn't even pregnant yet since the clock starts at last period, not at moment of conception.

    So you're really talking maybe one week of eligibility. If you're lucky. Zero for many women.
    Given 50% of Texans want to make abortion completely illegal to only 45% who want it legal, pro choice activists are lucky to even get 6 weeks there
    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    Wrong. You only get to 50% by adding "illegal in all cases" to "illegal in most cases".
    So he misrepresented an opinion poll to reflect his own agenda?

    https://youtu.be/wxlhyX-4qKI
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,592
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic and of interest mainly to me because it helps me not feel entirely helpless or alone.

    The Cyclefree Walnut-in-Throat Saga (cont'd).

    Husband still unable to swallow. Or sleep much either. I joined him in the insomnia and saw a beautiful dawn.

    Turns out that the stuff the hospital suggested - Buscopan - needs to be swallowed whole. Which is not much bloody use for a man who is at the hospital because he cannot swallow. And who now has a sore throat on top of everything else. And is losing his voice.

    Meanwhile no sign of the urgent referral to ENT doctors.

    I know we are all meant to worship at the altar of the NHS and they do heroic stuff etc and have been worked off their feet for the last year and a half. One doesn't want to be a nuisance like the fat girl eating chocolate lollies before complaining about all her fatness-related problems. I get all that. But not being able to swallow properly or eat is a bit sub-optimal, to be honest.

    Himself is not one for doctors or hospitals. He had to be dragged kicking and screaming there when his oxygen levels got low when he had Covid. Not this time. He's worried and uncomfortable. And so am I. And now it's Friday and the weekend and so nothing will happen unless it happens today.

    Aaaargh!

    Commiserations to both of you.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,982
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Not giving up:

    Australia may buy French nuclear submarines. They will be twice cheaper than the Americans.

    https://twitter.com/GerardAraud/status/1438776084250734594?s=20

    Be a real laugh if the French poke US and their lapdog in the eye , can only hope it goes that way.
    The AUKUS deal probably means jobs in Scotland given what we'll be exporting.

    But you don't care about that do you? You'd rather harm the Scottish economy than see Britain succeed. Truly cutting off your own nose to spite your face.
    Can you say precisely what these jobs in Scotland will be, just so I can see the size of the nose we’d be cutting off?

    Nice change to have Brits suggesting benefits if we stay rather than threatening econogeddon if we leave though. Normal service will be resumed shortly no doubt.
    UK subs are built in Barrow. No guarantee that the Aussie subs will be built in the UK (unless ofr course they are from the existing MoD order for the RN, as DA sapiently suggested might be the case: edit: would then be to no net benefit for anyone south or north of the border).

    Edit: can't think offhand of any bits of specialist kit made in Scotland, except certain hydraulics.
    The option that was pointed out to me by my old mate (a sundodger of long pedigree) on FB last night was the RAN give up on the Collins and do an interim purchase of license built German Type 214 (a much smaller, cheaper and simpler boat which needs a small crew) while they wait to be ushered into their bright new nuclear anglophone future. The RAN flirted with this option in about 2014/5 so it wouldn't be a surprise and would make a lot of financial sense. It also keeps the yard busy until the SSN design is finalised (2030?) which is politically very important.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    "States Rights" exist within a constitutional framework - or should do. A state should not have the right to bring back racial segregation, slavery or in this case the middle ages. Their "shop a slag" law makes women sport for predatory "men".
    I would have thought abortion on demand is far more likely to do make women sport for predatory men who can have sex without consequence or risk of her getting pregnant.

    Restricting abortion to the first 6 weeks of pregnancy is also hardly the middle ages nor is it slavery. Personally I would leave it a little longer and restrict it after 15-20 weeks rather than the 24 we now have in the UK but Texas can make its own mind up
    You're batshit crazy.

    Pregnancy tests won't reveal a pregnancy until 4 or 5 weeks in. Many women won't realise they're pregnant until past the six week mark!

    Heck the moment of conception is about two weeks in. In week one "of a pregnancy" the woman isn't even pregnant yet since the clock starts at last period, not at moment of conception.

    So you're really talking maybe one week of eligibility. If you're lucky. Zero for many women.
    Given 50% of Texans want to make abortion completely illegal to only 45% who want it legal, pro choice activists are lucky to even get 6 weeks there
    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    And if 50% of Texans wanted blacks to be 2/3rds of a person and enslaved?

    Women aren't lucky to control their own bodies, it's their human rights.
    The unborn child also has rights, precisely the opposite of slavery
    No, they don't. The woman has rights, the foetus has rights when it draws it is born and draws its first breath.
    The pantomime style of argument doesn't really work here.

    The foetus is by definition not a foetus at that stage so what you mean is, the foetus has no rights.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?

    Roberts is not the issue. In a normal SCOTUS he would be the swing vote. In this one, he is not. That is the issue. The real test for SCOTUS will be the cases it hears (or declines to hear) following a contested presidential election.

    The Dems should be trying to get Breyer (the oldest justice at 83) to retire, while they still control the WH and the Senate. They can't afford for another Ginsburg situation to happen
    Breyer has said he won't die on SCOTUS so that is a clear signal he will step down. My guess is that, if it looks like the GOP will win the Senate in 2022, he will announce his retirement and the Democrats will ram through a replacement before the new Senate sits.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    "States Rights" exist within a constitutional framework - or should do. A state should not have the right to bring back racial segregation, slavery or in this case the middle ages. Their "shop a slag" law makes women sport for predatory "men".
    I would have thought abortion on demand is far more likely to do make women sport for predatory men who can have sex without consequence or risk of her getting pregnant.

    Restricting abortion to the first 6 weeks of pregnancy is also hardly the middle ages nor is it slavery. Personally I would leave it a little longer and restrict it after 15-20 weeks rather than the 24 we now have in the UK but Texas can make its own mind up
    You're batshit crazy.

    Pregnancy tests won't reveal a pregnancy until 4 or 5 weeks in. Many women won't realise they're pregnant until past the six week mark!

    Heck the moment of conception is about two weeks in. In week one "of a pregnancy" the woman isn't even pregnant yet since the clock starts at last period, not at moment of conception.

    So you're really talking maybe one week of eligibility. If you're lucky. Zero for many women.
    Given 50% of Texans want to make abortion completely illegal to only 45% who want it legal, pro choice activists are lucky to even get 6 weeks there
    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    And if 50% of Texans wanted blacks to be 2/3rds of a person and enslaved?

    Women aren't lucky to control their own bodies, it's their human rights.
    The unborn child also has rights, precisely the opposite of slavery
    No, they don't. The woman has rights, the foetus has rights when it draws it is born and draws its first breath.
    The pantomime style of argument doesn't really work here.

    The foetus is by definition not a foetus at that stage so what you mean is, the foetus has no rights.
    Yes it is the extreme pro choice argument for abortion on demand, that is what they want ultimately abortion rights up until birth.

    Texas may have gone a bit too far the other way but at least it is a fightback against abortion on demand
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    Best wishes again Cyclefree, hope there can be a speedy diagnosis and recovery today.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,802

    Pro_Rata said:

    Jonathan said:

    Lost count of how many times people have called Covid over and done with.

    That's because it is over and done with (in a pandemic/lockdown sense). It has been since July and should have been months earlier.

    Lost count of how many times people have said its going to get worse, to no avail.
    Of all the times to declare the pandemic over the beginning of September, and with the hospitals starting multiples fuller of COVID patients than last year, is not it.

    - England went back to school with low initial incidence amongst youngsters, let's see if that is still true 3 or 4 infection cycles.
    - The current fall in incidence substantially relates to transmissions between 5-10/9, when we had a mini heatwave.

    There are things that will suppress rates, the reducing attack face from getting nearer herd immunity, immunity from vaccinations and boosters and so on, but I expect the next couple of months to be up and down, and perhaps more up than down in the next weeks..
    No issue with caution about this, but there is a huge difference between now and 12 months ago. When the cases started rising again in September 2021, the population was to a great extent covid naive, now around 95% of over 18 year olds have either had the virus and recovered or been vaccinated. This is highly significant.
    Its been striking how little we've heard from government and by implication SAGE and the CMO/CSO about why we should accept much higher case numbers and prevalence now, when 12 months ago all the warning alarms were going off and we we about to smash into the wall. Its because now we actively want delta to spread through the unvaxxed and finish the job of vaccination (on those who are too young for vaccines and not much at risk of covid, and also the feckwits out there who have refused the life jacket while punting on the lake). Delta is doing two great jobs. One is its out-competing other variants of concern and the other is finishing the vaccination campaign for free. We really should thank it.*

    *Apologies to any offended by this, if they have lost friends or relatives.
    You're 100% correct.

    It's why with all due respect Pro Rata, iSAGE and others comparing base rates of Covid now to base rates 12 months ago are not seeing the woods for the trees.

    The issue 12 months ago wasn't that Covid existed, it was it's potential for rapid exponential growth of new cases of Covid reaching those without any immunity to fight it off. With 95% prevalence of antibodies that simply doesn't exist anymore.
    Hey, don't iSage me. I'm pushing such a nuanced line on this stuff that it is besties with Roger Moore's eyebrow. I see the potential for health service difficulties this autumn/winter from COVID and flu and would simply like us to have more brakes available and to hand.

    We need to face the fact that we are going to continue to give proper treatment to the unvaccinated much as we might think they deserve throwing to the wolves. And that the health service needs the best chance to stabilise and start catching up the backlog of other things. This winter's flu vaccination campaign btw is massive.

    So, I accept we are at the punting for herd immunity stage, just with a bit of flattening the curve as needed. But we want to get to herd immunity by getting the unvaccinated vaccinated, and getting the vaccinated and the young safely infected whilst their vaccination immunity is good. But we don't actively WANT this to go through the unvaxxed at a great rate even though, to an extent, it is an unavoidable side effect.

    So the brakes we need are to manage flow through the health service - that only. I think the plan B is a tad weak, WfH good, masks marginal, excluding the adult unvaxxed from nightclubs - tbh, I'd advise that, in the terms used, they "should" stay away from all public entertainment and leisure venues right now. I'd add firebreaks, give notice now of slightly longer planned school holidays this half term and Christmas (but don't close the out of school clubs for those that need it). I'd invite and hunt down the unvaxxed to give them antibody tests and half the number of people we're tilting at - you're unvaxxed but you have antibodies, you're good to go and we won't bother you again, then focus on the remainder.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924

    I had an application ready to go (with @Cyclefree ’s help, which was much appreciated) to the CPS’s grad scheme to work as a prosecuting solicitor and at the last minute they pulled all north-east based places. 🤷‍♂️

    You mean that in the opinion of the Ministry of Justice there are enough prosecuting solicitors in NE Courts, and there are likely to be so for some time to come?
    Seems unlikely.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,157
    A strong contender for the "No Shit, Sherlock" Award - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/take-attacks-against-women-as-seriously-as-terror-police-told-nrrx0jdg9

    Are you listening, Cressida? And every other police chief?
  • Options
    This is very good on why the Texas abortion ban is so punitive and dangerous:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2021/09/the-texas-abortion-ban-is-a-threat-to-women-everywhere

    The thing to remember is that you cannot ban abortions. You can only ban safe abortions. Bans mean more women will die. Most of them will be from lower income and vulnerable groups.
  • Options
    Miss Cyclefree, I hope it comes loose and he can recover fully and swiftly.

    Entirely share your views on the foolishness of turning the NHS into a sacred cow.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,901

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    "States Rights" exist within a constitutional framework - or should do. A state should not have the right to bring back racial segregation, slavery or in this case the middle ages. Their "shop a slag" law makes women sport for predatory "men".
    I would have thought abortion on demand is far more likely to do make women sport for predatory men who can have sex without consequence or risk of her getting pregnant.

    Restricting abortion to the first 6 weeks of pregnancy is also hardly the middle ages nor is it slavery. Personally I would leave it a little longer and restrict it after 15-20 weeks rather than the 24 we now have in the UK but Texas can make its own mind up
    You're batshit crazy.

    Pregnancy tests won't reveal a pregnancy until 4 or 5 weeks in. Many women won't realise they're pregnant until past the six week mark!

    Heck the moment of conception is about two weeks in. In week one "of a pregnancy" the woman isn't even pregnant yet since the clock starts at last period, not at moment of conception.

    So you're really talking maybe one week of eligibility. If you're lucky. Zero for many women.
    Given 50% of Texans want to make abortion completely illegal to only 45% who want it legal, pro choice activists are lucky to even get 6 weeks there
    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    And if 50% of Texans wanted blacks to be 2/3rds of a person and enslaved?

    Women aren't lucky to control their own bodies, it's their human rights.
    The unborn child also has rights, precisely the opposite of slavery
    No, they don't. The woman has rights, the foetus has rights when it draws it is born and draws its first breath.
    Surely if that were true, abortions would be allowed at 38 weeks? The unborn baby has the right to live after a certain time, that is already the law isn’t it? I’m sitting here looking at the video of my son to be, currently 5 weeks away from being born - if my girlfriend started drinking a bottle of whiskey a day, that would infringe upon his rights as far as I’m concerned
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,592
    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Not giving up:

    Australia may buy French nuclear submarines. They will be twice cheaper than the Americans.

    https://twitter.com/GerardAraud/status/1438776084250734594?s=20

    Be a real laugh if the French poke US and their lapdog in the eye , can only hope it goes that way.
    The AUKUS deal probably means jobs in Scotland given what we'll be exporting.

    But you don't care about that do you? You'd rather harm the Scottish economy than see Britain succeed. Truly cutting off your own nose to spite your face.
    Can you say precisely what these jobs in Scotland will be, just so I can see the size of the nose we’d be cutting off?

    Nice change to have Brits suggesting benefits if we stay rather than threatening econogeddon if we leave though. Normal service will be resumed shortly no doubt.
    UK subs are built in Barrow. No guarantee that the Aussie subs will be built in the UK (unless ofr course they are from the existing MoD order for the RN, as DA sapiently suggested might be the case: edit: would then be to no net benefit for anyone south or north of the border).

    Edit: can't think offhand of any bits of specialist kit made in Scotland, except certain hydraulics.
    The option that was pointed out to me by my old mate (a sundodger of long pedigree) on FB last night was the RAN give up on the Collins and do an interim purchase of license built German Type 214 (a much smaller, cheaper and simpler boat which needs a small crew) while they wait to be ushered into their bright new nuclear anglophone future. The RAN flirted with this option in about 2014/5 so it wouldn't be a surprise and would make a lot of financial sense. It also keeps the yard busy until the SSN design is finalised (2030?) which is politically very important.
    Thanks. I see the Indonesians and Koreans have Typ 214s too. Historically at least diesel boats also have been quieter than nukes but no idea if that is the case now.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kamski said:

    Carnyx said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    "States Rights" exist within a constitutional framework - or should do. A state should not have the right to bring back racial segregation, slavery or in this case the middle ages. Their "shop a slag" law makes women sport for predatory "men".
    I would have thought abortion on demand is far more likely to do make women sport for predatory men who can have sex without consequence or risk of her getting pregnant.

    Restricting abortion to the first 6 weeks of pregnancy is also hardly the middle ages nor is it slavery. Personally I would leave it a little longer and restrict it after 15-20 weeks rather than the 24 we now have in the UK but Texas can make its own mind up
    You're batshit crazy.

    Pregnancy tests won't reveal a pregnancy until 4 or 5 weeks in. Many women won't realise they're pregnant until past the six week mark!

    Heck the moment of conception is about two weeks in. In week one "of a pregnancy" the woman isn't even pregnant yet since the clock starts at last period, not at moment of conception.

    So you're really talking maybe one week of eligibility. If you're lucky. Zero for many women.
    Given 50% of Texans want to make abortion completely illegal to only 45% who want it legal, pro choice activists are lucky to even get 6 weeks there
    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    Wrong. You only get to 50% by adding "illegal in all cases" to "illegal in most cases".
    He's also wrong about 50% of Texans surely - children, DNV etc. And that is opinion polling not a referendum.
    Yes, but even according to the opinion poll HYUFD linked to (extrapolating from national figures as I can't find the breakdown for Texas), there is an overwhelming majority in favour of abortion being either "legal in most cases" or "illegal in most cases" ie legal in some cases NOT "completely illegal". In other words there is a big majority who are in complete agreement that it is a question of where you draw the line, as any mature person would agree imho.
    The real battle in the abortion debate in the States is not between banning it outright or abortion up to birth (or even beyond) but about Hilary Clinton's dictum that abortion should be "safe, legal and rare" i.e. that it should be available but it shouldn't be seen as just another form of birth control.

    Ironically, Abbott knows that the Texas abortion law will probably be struck down at some point when the other abortion cases reach SCOTUS but he has already achieved what he wanted to down which is to raise his profile enormously amongst the GOP voting base. If Trump doesn't run in 2024, then Abbott is an increasingly likely contender.
  • Options

    This is very good on why the Texas abortion ban is so punitive and dangerous:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2021/09/the-texas-abortion-ban-is-a-threat-to-women-everywhere

    The thing to remember is that you cannot ban abortions. You can only ban safe abortions. Bans mean more women will die. Most of them will be from lower income and vulnerable groups.

    So? They shouldn't be having sex unless married anyway. So if they are blessed by God with a child that miracle should be protected from their sinful ways.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    2020 Biden could run on not being Trump and that was enough. 2024 Biden will have to run on his record in office. Also his brain is clearly a piece of shit now so by 2024 you might as well have a cantaloupe with a hair transplant and Ray-Bans.

    As Trump will be in jail, that will ensure the field is clear.

    And, TBH, a very good thing, too.
    No chance Trump will be in jail.

    Even if he's guilty, no Jury will be 12 Democrats (and if it were that'd be grounds for appeal surely). And no MAGA is going to convict.

    As Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
    Even as a non American I find the inability to hold him to account for his attempted coup in January deeply troubling.

    The American democratic system is broken and becoming more so. The Republicans claiming fraud in the recall election in California before the votes had even been counted was another sign. One of the major parties in the US is no longer signed up to democratic norms. If they lose they have been cheated even in a deep blue state such as California. There is no acceptance of democratic outcomes. This is not a stable situation and Trump is largely, if not exclusively, responsible.

    Yep - the US is in a very, very bad place. It is hard to see how things don't get worse there.

    Yep.

    There is going to eye popping levels of trouble at next POTUS election.

    The fabled constitution just about managed to keep Trump in check and eventually out of office without too much violence.

    I can't see it being able to cope a second time.

    Really sad to see a major democracy die like this through its own internal cancer.

    The Republican decision to upset the balance of the Supreme Court and to make it overtly partisan is the big problem.
    Would John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett rather have Donald Trump than a democracy though? They've already got the court, he didn't pass anything interesting to conservatives except tax cuts and everybody knows he's a menace, so what's in it for them?
    Roe vs Wade. Once you legalise abortion you can then follow the Texas lead and make a woman's body legal sport for men. Once you do that it isn't that far until women's rights really get rolled back. And if we're doing women that way think what will happen to gays, latinos, blacks?
    There are plenty of pro life blacks and latinos and plenty of pro life women too and even some pro life gays.

    Texas is also one of the few states, mainly southern, where a majority of voters think abortion should be illegal, so if it becomes more restricted there that is partly a reflection of states rights

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    "States Rights" exist within a constitutional framework - or should do. A state should not have the right to bring back racial segregation, slavery or in this case the middle ages. Their "shop a slag" law makes women sport for predatory "men".
    I would have thought abortion on demand is far more likely to do make women sport for predatory men who can have sex without consequence or risk of her getting pregnant.

    Restricting abortion to the first 6 weeks of pregnancy is also hardly the middle ages nor is it slavery. Personally I would leave it a little longer and restrict it after 15-20 weeks rather than the 24 we now have in the UK but Texas can make its own mind up
    You're batshit crazy.

    Pregnancy tests won't reveal a pregnancy until 4 or 5 weeks in. Many women won't realise they're pregnant until past the six week mark!

    Heck the moment of conception is about two weeks in. In week one "of a pregnancy" the woman isn't even pregnant yet since the clock starts at last period, not at moment of conception.

    So you're really talking maybe one week of eligibility. If you're lucky. Zero for many women.
    Given 50% of Texans want to make abortion completely illegal to only 45% who want it legal, pro choice activists are lucky to even get 6 weeks there
    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/
    And if 50% of Texans wanted blacks to be 2/3rds of a person and enslaved?

    Women aren't lucky to control their own bodies, it's their human rights.
    The unborn child also has rights, precisely the opposite of slavery
    No, they don't. The woman has rights, the foetus has rights when it draws it is born and draws its first breath.
    Yes they do and certainly the foetus becomes a living, sentient being well before birth. The only question is what time it does
    That is a question much discussed in Special Care Baby Units when I had to do which things. I know I 'helped', in a small way, to 'save' a very premature baby, who never developed fully, and is now a somewhat 'challenged' adult.
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