@PoliticsForAlI Police cars revolving light | NEW: The doorman at the Aberdeen club is claiming Gove tried to avoid paying the £5 entry fee by boasting he was the “Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster”.
Much as I dislike Gove we’ve all done something like this. In the mid-90s I tried to get into a club in St Petersburg by pretending I was on the crew of Goldeneye.
I have never had much patience for waiting to be let into a place to spend my money. I once tried to get into a brand new 'in' club in NYC by claiming to be a UN weapons inspector. It did not work, and I happily went on my way without a thought or a second try at persuading the bouncer.
I did successfully crash a David Copperfield/Claudia Schiffer $1500 a plate do in Bryant Park in NYC, but that was because both myself and my fellow crashers were all so drunk we acted like we owned the world (and we all had British, Kiwi or Aussie accents, which probably helped).
@PoliticsForAlI Police cars revolving light | NEW: The doorman at the Aberdeen club is claiming Gove tried to avoid paying the £5 entry fee by boasting he was the “Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster”.
Much as I dislike Gove we’ve all done something like this. In the mid-90s I tried to get into a club in St Petersburg by pretending I was on the crew of Goldeneye.
I imagine you are a Gove lookalike in all ways. Total fannies.
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
Why would you posit getting and surviving Covid as an alternative to vaccines?
Its not either/or, if you have a vaccine, you're far more likely to survive Covid.
I don't posit it as an alternative for most people, but I don;t see why you need a vaccine if you have had covid.
For healthy children between 12 and 15 I definitely would say that getting covid is an alternative to having an MRNA vaccine. Much better and more durable protection, almost no reinfection.
Its not better, its far, far worse. A 12 to 15 year old could die from getting Covid.
A vaccine protects them and then if they get infected they can very easily fight it off and have two forms of protection.
They could also die from getting the vaccine. Its very rare, but it does happen. Are there medium or long term effects? Probably not, but you cannot say for sure, because you don;t have the data and you know you don't. And so you are taking a gamble with the lives of the very young, when there simply is no need to.
In the world the rest of us inhabit, 5000 hospitalised per million is a considerably larger number than 60-70 hospitalised per million.
For clarity, the comparison looks kind of like this:
And 15-20 dead per million (with 3 million 12-15s in the UK) equals somewhere between 45 and 60 dead children.
And with the best measurement of long-term side-effects from covid (which, fortunately, do not seem to be anywhere near the 20%+ feared), we're looking at a couple of percent of those infected ending up with prolonged mind-fog, pain, or serious fatigue. So maybe 30,000-60,000 of them.
Let's be clear; you're advocating a course of action which we know should result in 45-60 dead 12-15-year-olds, 15,000 of them hospitalised, and 30,000-60,000 of them with long-term side effects.
In order to avoid the "gamble" of maybe 150-200 of them hospitalised with transitory myocarditis (which, to be clear, has seen full recoveries in every case so far and a median time of 1 day in hospital) with so low a death rate that we probably wouldn't see any, and in case of highly improbable long-term side-effects (which are extremely improbable to appear months down the line given how vaccines work in comparison to other medications).
It's not fair to suggest contrarian wants more children to die.
He wants more people of all ages to die, including children.
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
You do realise 1 in 3 American evangelicals are not white? Not particularly different to the US population as a whole. So when someone is criticising evangelicals the only link to white/not white criticism from that comment exists in your head, not from the person who said it.
Very few blacks are Trump voters though and yet he mysteriously appears in the header. Its pretty clear who is being singled out here, and its pretty clear why. Fair enough.
There’s nothing mysterious about it. There is a very obvious distinction between hesitancy and denialism, which a i’ve pointed out to you a couple of times in this thread. The latter has become part of a political identity, and is utterly irrational.
Oh I see so all vaccine hesitant people are vaccine hesitant, but some are more justifiably vaccine hesitant than others. The more 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant being black and ethnic minority people, and less 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant white Trump supporters. In other words prejudice, plain and simple. Lets call it what it is.
And as I point out below the only anti-vaxxers I have seen online are medical professionals. IE doctors. Are these people Trump supporters? who the heck knows.
That's remarkable if you've been able to see only the tiny proportion of online antivax nuttery that comes from medical professionals.
Quite so, I wasn't aware that Lawrence Fox and his admirers were medical professionals. Far from it. This is a typical Lozza contribution from the other day: In the end, it will be the unvaccinated that preserve the remnants of what used to be a liberal democracy.
I wonder if our contrarian friend supports Lozza's sentiment?
There is an interesting PhD in antivaxxer radicalisation. We are seeing in all major western countries.
I think there are tons of social psychologists who've been working on the issue for years from multiple perspectives. Public health academics have been studying the anti-vaxxer phenomenon for years, even if the type of person associated with it has changed since COVID and Trump. And look at Dan Kahan's work on cultural cognition, or Jonathan Haidt's work on morality and culture, or Jonah Berger's work on openness to persuasion. And those are just key people and strands of work I can reel off the top of my head. There must be loads more I am completely unaware of.
Anti-vax sentiment is just another manifestation of scepticism of the urban elites.
This vax is being pushed by people who aren't like me, and don't share my values, therefore I am going to be sceptical of it.
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
You do realise 1 in 3 American evangelicals are not white? Not particularly different to the US population as a whole. So when someone is criticising evangelicals the only link to white/not white criticism from that comment exists in your head, not from the person who said it.
Very few blacks are Trump voters though and yet he mysteriously appears in the header. Its pretty clear who is being singled out here, and its pretty clear why. Fair enough.
There’s nothing mysterious about it. There is a very obvious distinction between hesitancy and denialism, which a i’ve pointed out to you a couple of times in this thread. The latter has become part of a political identity, and is utterly irrational.
Oh I see so all vaccine hesitant people are vaccine hesitant, but some are more justifiably vaccine hesitant than others. The more 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant being black and ethnic minority people, and less 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant white Trump supporters. In other words prejudice, plain and simple. Lets call it what it is.
And as I point out below the only anti-vaxxers I have seen online are medical professionals. IE doctors. Are these people Trump supporters? who the heck knows.
That's remarkable if you've been able to see only the tiny proportion of online antivax nuttery that comes from medical professionals.
Quite so, I wasn't aware that Lawrence Fox and his admirers were medical professionals. Far from it. This is a typical Lozza contribution from the other day: In the end, it will be the unvaccinated that preserve the remnants of what used to be a liberal democracy.
I wonder if our contrarian friend supports Lozza's sentiment?
There is an interesting PhD in antivaxxer radicalisation. We are seeing in all major western countries.
I think there are tons of social psychologists who've been working on the issue for years from multiple perspectives. Public health academics have been studying the anti-vaxxer phenomenon for years, even if the type of person associated with it has changed since COVID and Trump. And look at Dan Kahan's work on cultural cognition, or Jonathan Haidt's work on morality and culture, or Jonah Berger's work on openness to persuasion. And those are just key people and strands of work I can reel off the top of my head. There must be loads more I am completely unaware of.
Anti-vax sentiment is just another manifestation of scepticism of the urban elites.
This vax is being pushed by people who aren't like me, and don't share my values, therefore I am going to be sceptical of it.
I mean we all know the smartest person in the room isn't Musk but a certain PBer.
Has anybody totally up the net profits all his companies* over the years have actually made? I bet it is barely positive (if at all). Yet he is a billionaire. Is that genius or snake oil.....or both....
And I bet he owns NFTs....
* while he has been involved i.e. Paypal he left way before they became what they are today.
Tesla are profitable - the reason for nearly all the past losses has been break-neck expansion.
SpaceX are insanely profitable - they can launch for less money and still make a bigger profit than anyone else. On the planet. No-one is even vaguely challenging them at the moment.
Starlink is nearly out of beta. Given the proven performance levels, they will capture a small percentage of the... entire internet connectivity of the planet.
I agree 100% with you on SpaceX/Starlink.
I'm not so convinced by Tesla. Or rather, I think Tesla will probably be the number one car company in the world in fifteen years time, but that won't necessarily be that profitable a place to be.
The issue being two fold: one, cars aren't that high-tech, and there's not really that much difference between a Tesla and an Audi; and two, the automobile sector is one of the most protectionist in the world. Whether it's the US tariffs on "light trucks" (i.e. SUVs) or the EU on regular cars or China's requirements that everything should be sourced locally or simply the insane subsidies available for domestic manufacturing.
I think Tesla are profitable now.
In the long term, unless they up their automotive quality, they will fade to a medium large player.
I think the future in automotive is hi-tech. Tesla really forced the pace (apart from the self-driving thing*) on IT in cars. Even now, the quality of software/integration on many cars lags theirs.
@PoliticsForAlI Police cars revolving light | NEW: The doorman at the Aberdeen club is claiming Gove tried to avoid paying the £5 entry fee by boasting he was the “Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster”.
Much as I dislike Gove we’ve all done something like this. In the mid-90s I tried to get into a club in St Petersburg by pretending I was on the crew of Goldeneye.
I imagine you are a Gove lookalike in all ways. Total fannies.
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
You do realise 1 in 3 American evangelicals are not white? Not particularly different to the US population as a whole. So when someone is criticising evangelicals the only link to white/not white criticism from that comment exists in your head, not from the person who said it.
Very few blacks are Trump voters though and yet he mysteriously appears in the header. Its pretty clear who is being singled out here, and its pretty clear why. Fair enough.
There’s nothing mysterious about it. There is a very obvious distinction between hesitancy and denialism, which a i’ve pointed out to you a couple of times in this thread. The latter has become part of a political identity, and is utterly irrational.
Oh I see so all vaccine hesitant people are vaccine hesitant, but some are more justifiably vaccine hesitant than others. The more 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant being black and ethnic minority people, and less 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant white Trump supporters. In other words prejudice, plain and simple. Lets call it what it is.
And as I point out below the only anti-vaxxers I have seen online are medical professionals. IE doctors. Are these people Trump supporters? who the heck knows.
That's remarkable if you've been able to see only the tiny proportion of online antivax nuttery that comes from medical professionals.
Quite so, I wasn't aware that Lawrence Fox and his admirers were medical professionals. Far from it. This is a typical Lozza contribution from the other day: In the end, it will be the unvaccinated that preserve the remnants of what used to be a liberal democracy.
I wonder if our contrarian friend supports Lozza's sentiment?
There is an interesting PhD in antivaxxer radicalisation. We are seeing in all major western countries.
I think there are tons of social psychologists who've been working on the issue for years from multiple perspectives. Public health academics have been studying the anti-vaxxer phenomenon for years, even if the type of person associated with it has changed since COVID and Trump. And look at Dan Kahan's work on cultural cognition, or Jonathan Haidt's work on morality and culture, or Jonah Berger's work on openness to persuasion. And those are just key people and strands of work I can reel off the top of my head. There must be loads more I am completely unaware of.
I meant to say current covid antivaxxer via the internet. It seems to have dragged quite a wide range of people down the rabbit hole.
Fair enough. The impact of social media on radicalization is a huge field.
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
You do realise 1 in 3 American evangelicals are not white? Not particularly different to the US population as a whole. So when someone is criticising evangelicals the only link to white/not white criticism from that comment exists in your head, not from the person who said it.
Very few blacks are Trump voters though and yet he mysteriously appears in the header. Its pretty clear who is being singled out here, and its pretty clear why. Fair enough.
There’s nothing mysterious about it. There is a very obvious distinction between hesitancy and denialism, which a i’ve pointed out to you a couple of times in this thread. The latter has become part of a political identity, and is utterly irrational.
Oh I see so all vaccine hesitant people are vaccine hesitant, but some are more justifiably vaccine hesitant than others. The more 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant being black and ethnic minority people, and less 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant white Trump supporters. In other words prejudice, plain and simple. Lets call it what it is.
And as I point out below the only anti-vaxxers I have seen online are medical professionals. IE doctors. Are these people Trump supporters? who the heck knows.
That's remarkable if you've been able to see only the tiny proportion of online antivax nuttery that comes from medical professionals.
Quite so, I wasn't aware that Lawrence Fox and his admirers were medical professionals. Far from it. This is a typical Lozza contribution from the other day: In the end, it will be the unvaccinated that preserve the remnants of what used to be a liberal democracy.
I wonder if our contrarian friend supports Lozza's sentiment?
There is an interesting PhD in antivaxxer radicalisation. We are seeing in all major western countries.
I think there are tons of social psychologists who've been working on the issue for years from multiple perspectives. Public health academics have been studying the anti-vaxxer phenomenon for years, even if the type of person associated with it has changed since COVID and Trump. And look at Dan Kahan's work on cultural cognition, or Jonathan Haidt's work on morality and culture, or Jonah Berger's work on openness to persuasion. And those are just key people and strands of work I can reel off the top of my head. There must be loads more I am completely unaware of.
Anti-vax sentiment is just another manifestation of scepticism of the urban elites.
This vax is being pushed by people who aren't like me, and don't share my values, therefore I am going to be sceptical of it.
That is the essence of Dan Kahan's work.
See, I can reproduce Dan Kahan's output, without any of that tedious work or studying. What more evidence of the greatness of the scientific method do you need?
What the biggest band / act you saw live before they became massive?
Mrs U years ago tried to get to me go and see this ginger bloke called Ed playing some small crappy venue....she played a couple of tracks and I said nah, not for me, so she went with a friend.
Saw Blur supporting the support at a Jesus and Mary Chain gig.
Despite Scotland's soaring numbers they are still only at about 70% (but still rising) of the North East's recent surge or London's winter surge.
And if all that's happening is it burning unchecked through kids, the rate at which it seeks out the residuum of unprotected and poorly protected elderly ought still to be quite low. Hence the fact that none of the Scottish hospitals are on fire.
That said, this evidently isn't going to calm down properly until antibody prevalence is somewhere very close to 100% of the entire population, including primary school kids and infants. Even if the JCVI finally extracts digit from rectum and authorises jabs for the 12-15 age group, this is still going to take some time.
We should just get it over with in the schools at this point. No more bubbles, no more tests of schoolkids who aren't unwell, no more isolation. 53% of 16 yearolds already had antibodies before we started jabing any but the most vulnerable of them. It won't take very long to get from 50% to the HIT for most schools.
Probably should discourage them from going to see Granny too much this term, but the whole thing would be done and dusted well before the NHS winter pressures start to pick up after half-term.
All the measures are doing at the moment is pointlessly stretching out the inevitable over a longer time period.
What the biggest band / act you saw live before they became massive?
Mrs U years ago tried to get to me go and see this ginger bloke called Ed playing some small crappy venue....she played a couple of tracks and I said nah, not for me, so she went with a friend.
Saw the Stranglers have their set cut short by the Tory GLC (so much for London being a Labour city). Were they big then? They were the support act to someone else but past the pub stage.
The problem with Trump is not that he's antivaxx (he's not that stupid), but that he's tried to win the anti-vaxx votes by playing it off with a nudge and a wink rather than combatting antivaxxery.
In a parallel universe Trump could have successfully helped push vaccines to his followers on an "America First" principle: 'These vaccines WORK and THANKS TO ME, YOUR GREATEST EVER PRESIDENT, America ordered them FIRST to save AMERICANS LIVES FIRST. Go TODAY and get an AMERICAN VACCINE to defeat the CHINA VIRUS and KEEP AMERICA GREAT'.
Here's the thing, though.
Trump is a member of the metropolitan elite, and he believes in the achievements (like science) of the metropolitan elite.
But he is the leader of the anti-metropolitan elite. He became leader by saying thing that they wanted to hear. (That is his whole method: What do I get cheers for? Say more like that.) Could he get away with contradicting peoples' fundamental beliefs?
What the biggest band / act you saw live before they became massive?
Mrs U years ago tried to get to me go and see this ginger bloke called Ed playing some small crappy venue....she played a couple of tracks and I said nah, not for me, so she went with a friend.
Saw Blur supporting the support at a Jesus and Mary Chain gig.
I saw Blur third on the bill on before Neds Atomic Dustbin and the headliners, Jesus Jones. Not as good as seeing Nirvana third on the bill, on before Tad and Mudhoney as a 15 yo in 1989.
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
You do realise 1 in 3 American evangelicals are not white? Not particularly different to the US population as a whole. So when someone is criticising evangelicals the only link to white/not white criticism from that comment exists in your head, not from the person who said it.
Very few blacks are Trump voters though and yet he mysteriously appears in the header. Its pretty clear who is being singled out here, and its pretty clear why. Fair enough.
There’s nothing mysterious about it. There is a very obvious distinction between hesitancy and denialism, which a i’ve pointed out to you a couple of times in this thread. The latter has become part of a political identity, and is utterly irrational.
Oh I see so all vaccine hesitant people are vaccine hesitant, but some are more justifiably vaccine hesitant than others. The more 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant being black and ethnic minority people, and less 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant white Trump supporters. In other words prejudice, plain and simple. Lets call it what it is.
And as I point out below the only anti-vaxxers I have seen online are medical professionals. IE doctors. Are these people Trump supporters? who the heck knows.
Anti-vaxxers are medical professionals my arse! Maybe if you really want you can scour the entire internet and you can find a "medical professional" somewhere in the world with their own unique understanding. Try talking to the next doctor in your neighborhood, for a more typical view. Personally, intimately knowing actual real life frontline doctors who have been treating actual covid patients the last year or more I have observed a couple of things: 1. Actual real life frontline doctors are generally not posting on social media. Because they are too busy, you know, saving people's lives and shit. And because their lives are stressful enough without inviting tons of aggro from the anti-vax cultists. 2. Out of thousands of actual medical professionals that I am personally aware of, only 2 refused to be vaccinated. Both young female nurses who were trying to have babies who'd heard rumours that the vaccine might stop that.
And yes, the anti-vaxxers claiming to be doctors are probably Trump supporters. The woman who founded "America's frontline doctors" and its communications director were arrested for taking part in the January 6th attempted coup.
Despite Scotland's soaring numbers they are still only at about 70% (but still rising) of the North East's recent surge or London's winter surge.
And if all that's happening is it burning unchecked through kids, the rate at which it seeks out the residuum of unprotected and poorly protected elderly ought still to be quite low. Hence the fact that none of the Scottish hospitals are on fire.
That said, this evidently isn't going to calm down properly until antibody prevalence is somewhere very close to 100% of the entire population, including primary school kids and infants. Even if the JCVI finally extracts digit from rectum and authorises jabs for the 12-15 age group, this is still going to take some time.
We should just get it over with in the schools at this point. No more bubbles, no more tests of schoolkids who aren't unwell, no more isolation. 53% of 16 yearolds already had antibodies before we started jabing any but the most vulnerable of them. It won't take very long to get from 50% to the HIT for most schools.
Probably should discourage them from going to see Granny too much this term, but the whole thing would be done and dusted well before the NHS winter pressures start to pick up after half-term.
All the measures are doing at the moment is pointlessly stretching out the inevitable over a longer time period.
That's not true.
Viral load matters.
If a 15 year old is in a classroom and one of the kids has it, they might get 100 units of Covid. If they go to ten classes, and there are ten kids in each wit Covid, they might get 10,000 units.
And the amount you get dosed with has a significant impact on your likelihood of getting really sick. It's one of the reasons why - at the start of upturns - there are lots of mild cases; it's because people only get small doses. But if everyone has Covid, then there's an awful lot of viral matter in the air, and peoples' initial doses will be much, much higher.
And it's also why masks are important. They cut viral load. They don't just impact your likelihood of catching Covid, they impact the likely severity of cases.
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
You do realise 1 in 3 American evangelicals are not white? Not particularly different to the US population as a whole. So when someone is criticising evangelicals the only link to white/not white criticism from that comment exists in your head, not from the person who said it.
Very few blacks are Trump voters though and yet he mysteriously appears in the header. Its pretty clear who is being singled out here, and its pretty clear why. Fair enough.
There’s nothing mysterious about it. There is a very obvious distinction between hesitancy and denialism, which a i’ve pointed out to you a couple of times in this thread. The latter has become part of a political identity, and is utterly irrational.
Oh I see so all vaccine hesitant people are vaccine hesitant, but some are more justifiably vaccine hesitant than others. The more 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant being black and ethnic minority people, and less 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant white Trump supporters. In other words prejudice, plain and simple. Lets call it what it is.
And as I point out below the only anti-vaxxers I have seen online are medical professionals. IE doctors. Are these people Trump supporters? who the heck knows.
Anti-vaxxers are medical professionals my arse! Maybe if you really want you can scour the entire internet and you can find a "medical professional" somewhere in the world with their own unique understanding. Try talking to the next doctor in your neighborhood, for a more typical view. Personally, intimately knowing actual real life frontline doctors who have been treating actual covid patients the last year or more I have observed a couple of things: 1. Actual real life frontline doctors are generally not posting on social media. Because they are too busy, you know, saving people's lives and shit. And because their lives are stressful enough without inviting tons of aggro from the anti-vax cultists. 2. Out of thousands of actual medical professionals that I am personally aware of, only 2 refused to be vaccinated. Both young female nurses who were trying to have babies who'd heard rumours that the vaccine might stop that.
And yes, the anti-vaxxers claiming to be doctors are probably Trump supporters. The woman who founded "America's frontline doctors" and its communications director were arrested for taking part in the January 6th attempted coup.
Dr Foxy has reported a reasonable number of medical professionals in their hospital won't get vaccinated.
There was the Vice video from the other day where I believe it was the Ozarks, only 50% of the hospital were vaccinated.
Despite Scotland's soaring numbers they are still only at about 70% (but still rising) of the North East's recent surge or London's winter surge.
And if all that's happening is it burning unchecked through kids, the rate at which it seeks out the residuum of unprotected and poorly protected elderly ought still to be quite low. Hence the fact that none of the Scottish hospitals are on fire.
That said, this evidently isn't going to calm down properly until antibody prevalence is somewhere very close to 100% of the entire population, including primary school kids and infants. Even if the JCVI finally extracts digit from rectum and authorises jabs for the 12-15 age group, this is still going to take some time.
We should just get it over with in the schools at this point. No more bubbles, no more tests of schoolkids who aren't unwell, no more isolation. 53% of 16 yearolds already had antibodies before we started jabing any but the most vulnerable of them. It won't take very long to get from 50% to the HIT for most schools.
Probably should discourage them from going to see Granny too much this term, but the whole thing would be done and dusted well before the NHS winter pressures start to pick up after half-term.
All the measures are doing at the moment is pointlessly stretching out the inevitable over a longer time period.
What we are actually getting, of course, is endless dithering over jabs for the 12-15s and the panic reintroduction of the bloody masks in parts of the South West. There's an active aversion both to vaccinating children and letting them catch the illness naturally - which means, given that Covid is now too infectious to be stopped in its tracks, we are simply dragging it out to no useful effect, as you describe.
Obsessing over school outbreaks just means that we're going to end up with yet more stupid Zoom lessons and an increasing level of demands for/panic about more bloody lockdowns come the Winter. Absolutely the worst of all worlds.
@PoliticsForAlI Police cars revolving light | NEW: The doorman at the Aberdeen club is claiming Gove tried to avoid paying the £5 entry fee by boasting he was the “Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster”.
Much as I dislike Gove we’ve all done something like this. In the mid-90s I tried to get into a club in St Petersburg by pretending I was on the crew of Goldeneye.
Isn't Gove going to say all this was research for his vaxports for nightclubs project?
Talk of making him Foreign Secretary this week. I wonder how difficult it would be for a foreign spy agency to get him to compromise himself and find himself blackmailed.
In previous times that would be disqualifying for a senior cabinet role, let alone Foreign Secretary.
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
You do realise 1 in 3 American evangelicals are not white? Not particularly different to the US population as a whole. So when someone is criticising evangelicals the only link to white/not white criticism from that comment exists in your head, not from the person who said it.
Very few blacks are Trump voters though and yet he mysteriously appears in the header. Its pretty clear who is being singled out here, and its pretty clear why. Fair enough.
There’s nothing mysterious about it. There is a very obvious distinction between hesitancy and denialism, which a i’ve pointed out to you a couple of times in this thread. The latter has become part of a political identity, and is utterly irrational.
Oh I see so all vaccine hesitant people are vaccine hesitant, but some are more justifiably vaccine hesitant than others. The more 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant being black and ethnic minority people, and less 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant white Trump supporters. In other words prejudice, plain and simple. Lets call it what it is.
And as I point out below the only anti-vaxxers I have seen online are medical professionals. IE doctors. Are these people Trump supporters? who the heck knows.
That's remarkable if you've been able to see only the tiny proportion of online antivax nuttery that comes from medical professionals.
Quite so, I wasn't aware that Lawrence Fox and his admirers were medical professionals. Far from it. This is a typical Lozza contribution from the other day: In the end, it will be the unvaccinated that preserve the remnants of what used to be a liberal democracy.
I wonder if our contrarian friend supports Lozza's sentiment?
There is an interesting PhD in antivaxxer radicalisation. We are seeing in all major western countries.
I think there are tons of social psychologists who've been working on the issue for years from multiple perspectives. Public health academics have been studying the anti-vaxxer phenomenon for years, even if the type of person associated with it has changed since COVID and Trump. And look at Dan Kahan's work on cultural cognition, or Jonathan Haidt's work on morality and culture, or Jonah Berger's work on openness to persuasion. And those are just key people and strands of work I can reel off the top of my head. There must be loads more I am completely unaware of.
Anti-vax sentiment is just another manifestation of scepticism of the urban elites.
This vax is being pushed by people who aren't like me, and don't share my values, therefore I am going to be sceptical of it.
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
You do realise 1 in 3 American evangelicals are not white? Not particularly different to the US population as a whole. So when someone is criticising evangelicals the only link to white/not white criticism from that comment exists in your head, not from the person who said it.
Very few blacks are Trump voters though and yet he mysteriously appears in the header. Its pretty clear who is being singled out here, and its pretty clear why. Fair enough.
There’s nothing mysterious about it. There is a very obvious distinction between hesitancy and denialism, which a i’ve pointed out to you a couple of times in this thread. The latter has become part of a political identity, and is utterly irrational.
Oh I see so all vaccine hesitant people are vaccine hesitant, but some are more justifiably vaccine hesitant than others. The more 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant being black and ethnic minority people, and less 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant white Trump supporters. In other words prejudice, plain and simple. Lets call it what it is.
And as I point out below the only anti-vaxxers I have seen online are medical professionals. IE doctors. Are these people Trump supporters? who the heck knows.
Anti-vaxxers are medical professionals my arse! Maybe if you really want you can scour the entire internet and you can find a "medical professional" somewhere in the world with their own unique understanding. Try talking to the next doctor in your neighborhood, for a more typical view. Personally, intimately knowing actual real life frontline doctors who have been treating actual covid patients the last year or more I have observed a couple of things: 1. Actual real life frontline doctors are generally not posting on social media. Because they are too busy, you know, saving people's lives and shit. And because their lives are stressful enough without inviting tons of aggro from the anti-vax cultists. 2. Out of thousands of actual medical professionals that I am personally aware of, only 2 refused to be vaccinated. Both young female nurses who were trying to have babies who'd heard rumours that the vaccine might stop that.
And yes, the anti-vaxxers claiming to be doctors are probably Trump supporters. The woman who founded "America's frontline doctors" and its communications director were arrested for taking part in the January 6th attempted coup.
Isn’t she the one who claims some STDs are caused by people having had sex with demons and that alien DNA is currently used in medical treatments? And that a vaccine against religion is being prepared and the government of the US is partly-run by reptilians?
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
You do realise 1 in 3 American evangelicals are not white? Not particularly different to the US population as a whole. So when someone is criticising evangelicals the only link to white/not white criticism from that comment exists in your head, not from the person who said it.
Very few blacks are Trump voters though and yet he mysteriously appears in the header. Its pretty clear who is being singled out here, and its pretty clear why. Fair enough.
There’s nothing mysterious about it. There is a very obvious distinction between hesitancy and denialism, which a i’ve pointed out to you a couple of times in this thread. The latter has become part of a political identity, and is utterly irrational.
Oh I see so all vaccine hesitant people are vaccine hesitant, but some are more justifiably vaccine hesitant than others. The more 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant being black and ethnic minority people, and less 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant white Trump supporters. In other words prejudice, plain and simple. Lets call it what it is.
And as I point out below the only anti-vaxxers I have seen online are medical professionals. IE doctors. Are these people Trump supporters? who the heck knows.
Anti-vaxxers are medical professionals my arse! Maybe if you really want you can scour the entire internet and you can find a "medical professional" somewhere in the world with their own unique understanding. Try talking to the next doctor in your neighborhood, for a more typical view. Personally, intimately knowing actual real life frontline doctors who have been treating actual covid patients the last year or more I have observed a couple of things: 1. Actual real life frontline doctors are generally not posting on social media. Because they are too busy, you know, saving people's lives and shit. And because their lives are stressful enough without inviting tons of aggro from the anti-vax cultists. 2. Out of thousands of actual medical professionals that I am personally aware of, only 2 refused to be vaccinated. Both young female nurses who were trying to have babies who'd heard rumours that the vaccine might stop that.
And yes, the anti-vaxxers claiming to be doctors are probably Trump supporters. The woman who founded "America's frontline doctors" and its communications director were arrested for taking part in the January 6th attempted coup.
Dr Foxy has reported a reasonable number of medical professionals in their hospital won't get vaccinated.
There was the Vice video from the other day where I believe it was the Ozarks, only 50% of the hospital were vaccinated.
It was probably just a money laundering operation.
Seriously though, F1 needs to take a long hard look at itself. We've kept everyone hanging around in the pissing rain for hours. Made the rules up as they go along. And now drag everyone out for just long enough to not have to issue refunds for the non-race.
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
You do realise 1 in 3 American evangelicals are not white? Not particularly different to the US population as a whole. So when someone is criticising evangelicals the only link to white/not white criticism from that comment exists in your head, not from the person who said it.
Very few blacks are Trump voters though and yet he mysteriously appears in the header. Its pretty clear who is being singled out here, and its pretty clear why. Fair enough.
There’s nothing mysterious about it. There is a very obvious distinction between hesitancy and denialism, which a i’ve pointed out to you a couple of times in this thread. The latter has become part of a political identity, and is utterly irrational.
Oh I see so all vaccine hesitant people are vaccine hesitant, but some are more justifiably vaccine hesitant than others. The more 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant being black and ethnic minority people, and less 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant white Trump supporters. In other words prejudice, plain and simple. Lets call it what it is.
And as I point out below the only anti-vaxxers I have seen online are medical professionals. IE doctors. Are these people Trump supporters? who the heck knows.
Anti-vaxxers are medical professionals my arse! Maybe if you really want you can scour the entire internet and you can find a "medical professional" somewhere in the world with their own unique understanding. Try talking to the next doctor in your neighborhood, for a more typical view. Personally, intimately knowing actual real life frontline doctors who have been treating actual covid patients the last year or more I have observed a couple of things: 1. Actual real life frontline doctors are generally not posting on social media. Because they are too busy, you know, saving people's lives and shit. And because their lives are stressful enough without inviting tons of aggro from the anti-vax cultists. 2. Out of thousands of actual medical professionals that I am personally aware of, only 2 refused to be vaccinated. Both young female nurses who were trying to have babies who'd heard rumours that the vaccine might stop that.
And yes, the anti-vaxxers claiming to be doctors are probably Trump supporters. The woman who founded "America's frontline doctors" and its communications director were arrested for taking part in the January 6th attempted coup.
Dr Foxy has reported a reasonable number of medical professionals in their hospital won't get vaccinated.
There was the Vice video from the other day where I believe it was the Ozarks, only 50% of the hospital were vaccinated.
It was probably just a money laundering operation.
LOL....
More seriously though, apparently they have a huge antivaxxer problem. Only something like a 1/3 of the population are vaxxed and as I say even the hospital staff won't get vaxxed, even though they are seeing loads of cases
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
You do realise 1 in 3 American evangelicals are not white? Not particularly different to the US population as a whole. So when someone is criticising evangelicals the only link to white/not white criticism from that comment exists in your head, not from the person who said it.
Very few blacks are Trump voters though and yet he mysteriously appears in the header. Its pretty clear who is being singled out here, and its pretty clear why. Fair enough.
There’s nothing mysterious about it. There is a very obvious distinction between hesitancy and denialism, which a i’ve pointed out to you a couple of times in this thread. The latter has become part of a political identity, and is utterly irrational.
Oh I see so all vaccine hesitant people are vaccine hesitant, but some are more justifiably vaccine hesitant than others. The more 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant being black and ethnic minority people, and less 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant white Trump supporters. In other words prejudice, plain and simple. Lets call it what it is.
And as I point out below the only anti-vaxxers I have seen online are medical professionals. IE doctors. Are these people Trump supporters? who the heck knows.
Anti-vaxxers are medical professionals my arse! Maybe if you really want you can scour the entire internet and you can find a "medical professional" somewhere in the world with their own unique understanding. Try talking to the next doctor in your neighborhood, for a more typical view. Personally, intimately knowing actual real life frontline doctors who have been treating actual covid patients the last year or more I have observed a couple of things: 1. Actual real life frontline doctors are generally not posting on social media. Because they are too busy, you know, saving people's lives and shit. And because their lives are stressful enough without inviting tons of aggro from the anti-vax cultists. 2. Out of thousands of actual medical professionals that I am personally aware of, only 2 refused to be vaccinated. Both young female nurses who were trying to have babies who'd heard rumours that the vaccine might stop that.
And yes, the anti-vaxxers claiming to be doctors are probably Trump supporters. The woman who founded "America's frontline doctors" and its communications director were arrested for taking part in the January 6th attempted coup.
Isn’t she the one who claims some STDs are caused by people having had sex with demons and that alien DNA is currently used in medical treatments? And that a vaccine against religion is being prepared and the government of the US is partly-run by reptilians?
Thank God, I thought you were going to say she was some kind of crank.
The problem with Trump is not that he's antivaxx (he's not that stupid), but that he's tried to win the anti-vaxx votes by playing it off with a nudge and a wink rather than combatting antivaxxery.
In a parallel universe Trump could have successfully helped push vaccines to his followers on an "America First" principle: 'These vaccines WORK and THANKS TO ME, YOUR GREATEST EVER PRESIDENT, America ordered them FIRST to save AMERICANS LIVES FIRST. Go TODAY and get an AMERICAN VACCINE to defeat the CHINA VIRUS and KEEP AMERICA GREAT'.
Possibly would have done that if he'd got reelected. But now it's the big sulk and he's taken his ball home.
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
Why would you posit getting and surviving Covid as an alternative to vaccines?
Its not either/or, if you have a vaccine, you're far more likely to survive Covid.
I don't posit it as an alternative for most people, but I don;t see why you need a vaccine if you have had covid.
For healthy children between 12 and 15 I definitely would say that getting covid is an alternative to having an MRNA vaccine. Much better and more durable protection, almost no reinfection.
Its not better, its far, far worse. A 12 to 15 year old could die from getting Covid.
A vaccine protects them and then if they get infected they can very easily fight it off and have two forms of protection.
They could also die from getting the vaccine. Its very rare, but it does happen. Are there medium or long term effects? Probably not, but you cannot say for sure, because you don;t have the data and you know you don't.
Long term effects. That's one for the anti-vaxxer bingo.
Yeah, as if there are no long term risks of infection...
Mr. Jessop, my understanding is it's the number of laps behind the safety car minus one (for the 'formation lap'). So we've technically had one racing lap.
Although the event countdown hasn't started (2 racing hours) which is peculiar.
From the betting, a lot of people are thinking Max will win a two lap "race" and if nothing happens they'll get their stakes back.
Still 1.04 Max so 1.04 nothing more to come. 21 Lewis. Any price the rest.
The problem with Trump is not that he's antivaxx (he's not that stupid), but that he's tried to win the anti-vaxx votes by playing it off with a nudge and a wink rather than combatting antivaxxery.
In a parallel universe Trump could have successfully helped push vaccines to his followers on an "America First" principle: 'These vaccines WORK and THANKS TO ME, YOUR GREATEST EVER PRESIDENT, America ordered them FIRST to save AMERICANS LIVES FIRST. Go TODAY and get an AMERICAN VACCINE to defeat the CHINA VIRUS and KEEP AMERICA GREAT'.
Here's the thing, though.
Trump is a member of the metropolitan elite, and he believes in the achievements (like science) of the metropolitan elite.
But he is the leader of the anti-metropolitan elite. He became leader by saying thing that they wanted to hear. (That is his whole method: What do I get cheers for? Say more like that.) Could he get away with contradicting peoples' fundamental beliefs?
He could have by turning his most obnoxious 'strength' (rampant xenophobia) into his side. Hence why I wrote a Trump-style Tweet using Trump-style language. If he'd been putting that out daily since last year (before he got banned) and continued to do so regularly then I suspect half the anti-vaxx voices would have become pro-vaxx ones.
Don't make it science versus nature. Make it American versus China. AMERICAN VACCINES versus the CHINA VIRUS.
I think he had the power and standing to phrase it like that and Fox and others would have followed unequivocally. Which would have trickled down to the likes of MrEd, Contrarian, Lozza Fox and others who would have taken it that way too.
Don't make it about defeating Covid. Make it about America beating China. Americans would buy into that.
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
You do realise 1 in 3 American evangelicals are not white? Not particularly different to the US population as a whole. So when someone is criticising evangelicals the only link to white/not white criticism from that comment exists in your head, not from the person who said it.
Very few blacks are Trump voters though and yet he mysteriously appears in the header. Its pretty clear who is being singled out here, and its pretty clear why. Fair enough.
There’s nothing mysterious about it. There is a very obvious distinction between hesitancy and denialism, which a i’ve pointed out to you a couple of times in this thread. The latter has become part of a political identity, and is utterly irrational.
Oh I see so all vaccine hesitant people are vaccine hesitant, but some are more justifiably vaccine hesitant than others. The more 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant being black and ethnic minority people, and less 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant white Trump supporters. In other words prejudice, plain and simple. Lets call it what it is.
And as I point out below the only anti-vaxxers I have seen online are medical professionals. IE doctors. Are these people Trump supporters? who the heck knows.
Anti-vaxxers are medical professionals my arse! Maybe if you really want you can scour the entire internet and you can find a "medical professional" somewhere in the world with their own unique understanding. Try talking to the next doctor in your neighborhood, for a more typical view. Personally, intimately knowing actual real life frontline doctors who have been treating actual covid patients the last year or more I have observed a couple of things: 1. Actual real life frontline doctors are generally not posting on social media. Because they are too busy, you know, saving people's lives and shit. And because their lives are stressful enough without inviting tons of aggro from the anti-vax cultists. 2. Out of thousands of actual medical professionals that I am personally aware of, only 2 refused to be vaccinated. Both young female nurses who were trying to have babies who'd heard rumours that the vaccine might stop that.
And yes, the anti-vaxxers claiming to be doctors are probably Trump supporters. The woman who founded "America's frontline doctors" and its communications director were arrested for taking part in the January 6th attempted coup.
Dr Foxy has reported a reasonable number of medical professionals in their hospital won't get vaccinated.
There was the Vice video from the other day where I believe it was the Ozarks, only 50% of the hospital were vaccinated.
It was probably just a money laundering operation.
LOL....
More seriously though, apparently they have a huge antivaxxer problem. Only something like a 1/3 of the population are vaxxed and as I say even the hospital staff won't get vaxxed, even though they are seeing loads of cases
Thinking about it, hospitals in the US must be pretty much ideal for money laundering. Easy to get a random Joe paying in $50k-100k for some obscure medical treatment which is suddenly 80% legitimate profit for the hospital. I wonder how much of their excess medical spend is actually drug money being washed.
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
You do realise 1 in 3 American evangelicals are not white? Not particularly different to the US population as a whole. So when someone is criticising evangelicals the only link to white/not white criticism from that comment exists in your head, not from the person who said it.
Very few blacks are Trump voters though and yet he mysteriously appears in the header. Its pretty clear who is being singled out here, and its pretty clear why. Fair enough.
There’s nothing mysterious about it. There is a very obvious distinction between hesitancy and denialism, which a i’ve pointed out to you a couple of times in this thread. The latter has become part of a political identity, and is utterly irrational.
Oh I see so all vaccine hesitant people are vaccine hesitant, but some are more justifiably vaccine hesitant than others. The more 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant being black and ethnic minority people, and less 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant white Trump supporters. In other words prejudice, plain and simple. Lets call it what it is.
And as I point out below the only anti-vaxxers I have seen online are medical professionals. IE doctors. Are these people Trump supporters? who the heck knows.
That's remarkable if you've been able to see only the tiny proportion of online antivax nuttery that comes from medical professionals.
Quite so, I wasn't aware that Lawrence Fox and his admirers were medical professionals. Far from it. This is a typical Lozza contribution from the other day: In the end, it will be the unvaccinated that preserve the remnants of what used to be a liberal democracy.
I wonder if our contrarian friend supports Lozza's sentiment?
There is an interesting PhD in antivaxxer radicalisation. We are seeing in all major western countries.
I think there are tons of social psychologists who've been working on the issue for years from multiple perspectives. Public health academics have been studying the anti-vaxxer phenomenon for years, even if the type of person associated with it has changed since COVID and Trump. And look at Dan Kahan's work on cultural cognition, or Jonathan Haidt's work on morality and culture, or Jonah Berger's work on openness to persuasion. And those are just key people and strands of work I can reel off the top of my head. There must be loads more I am completely unaware of.
Anti-vax sentiment is just another manifestation of scepticism of the urban elites.
This vax is being pushed by people who aren't like me, and don't share my values, therefore I am going to be sceptical of it.
Different patterns in other countries.
In Europe, vaccine scepticism seems to run on an East-West axis. Iceland, Ireland, UK, Portugal, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain - all will end up with over 90% of adults vaccinated.
While out East, Bulgaria, Romania, etc., are all on less (sometimes way less) than 50%.
In Germany, the West is well vaccinated (Lander like Bremen are already over 90% of adults), while in the East it's more like 55-60%.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I think sensitivity to Russian propaganda plays a role.
An alternative take on Brexit-induced worker shortages:
Employers have only a limited range of options if they find themselves short of staff and it is not possible to call up reinforcements from overseas. They can invest more in labour-saving equipment; they can invest more in training to raise skill levels; or they can pay more in order to attract staff. It is not immediately obvious why any of these should be either impossible or undesirable.
Naturally, companies cannot solve immediate labour shortage issues by ramping up training or buying new kit. Both take time to organise and to have any real impact. That only really leaves the option of paying higher wages, which explains why Tesco is offering a £1,000 sign-on bonus for new lorry drivers.
...
Against this backdrop, it is perhaps unsurprising that Brexit divided the nation in the way it did. If you were in a relatively well-paid job and not at risk of being replaced or undercut by a worker from overseas, you were likely to vote remain. The Polish plumber was cheaper, the Lithuanian nanny was better educated, so what was not to like?
If, on the other hand, you were part of Britain’s casualised workforce, needing two or more part-time jobs to get by, you were much more likely to vote leave, on the grounds that tougher controls on migration would lead to a tighter labour market, which in turn would push up wages.
For those who have nothing to fear from open borders, labour shortages are evidence Brexit is flawed. For those not so fortunate, it is doing what it was supposed to do.
An alternative take on Brexit-induced worker shortages:
Employers have only a limited range of options if they find themselves short of staff and it is not possible to call up reinforcements from overseas. They can invest more in labour-saving equipment; they can invest more in training to raise skill levels; or they can pay more in order to attract staff. It is not immediately obvious why any of these should be either impossible or undesirable.
Naturally, companies cannot solve immediate labour shortage issues by ramping up training or buying new kit. Both take time to organise and to have any real impact. That only really leaves the option of paying higher wages, which explains why Tesco is offering a £1,000 sign-on bonus for new lorry drivers.
...
Against this backdrop, it is perhaps unsurprising that Brexit divided the nation in the way it did. If you were in a relatively well-paid job and not at risk of being replaced or undercut by a worker from overseas, you were likely to vote remain. The Polish plumber was cheaper, the Lithuanian nanny was better educated, so what was not to like?
If, on the other hand, you were part of Britain’s casualised workforce, needing two or more part-time jobs to get by, you were much more likely to vote leave, on the grounds that tougher controls on migration would lead to a tighter labour market, which in turn would push up wages.
For those who have nothing to fear from open borders, labour shortages are evidence Brexit is flawed. For those not so fortunate, it is doing what it was supposed to do.
I know it's wrong to give him publicity but I was quite entertained by the PM's performance on University Challenge from many moons ago. Managed to get the wrath of Paxman too
If you don't want to watch the whole thing here are the edited highlights:
5:05 to 5:40 9:38 to 11:05 13:45 to 14:05 20:20 to 20:45 21:00 to 21:10 23:56 - 3 questions on Human Rights organisations is hilarious it seems 24:55 to 25:45
The problem with Trump is not that he's antivaxx (he's not that stupid), but that he's tried to win the anti-vaxx votes by playing it off with a nudge and a wink rather than combatting antivaxxery.
In a parallel universe Trump could have successfully helped push vaccines to his followers on an "America First" principle: 'These vaccines WORK and THANKS TO ME, YOUR GREATEST EVER PRESIDENT, America ordered them FIRST to save AMERICANS LIVES FIRST. Go TODAY and get an AMERICAN VACCINE to defeat the CHINA VIRUS and KEEP AMERICA GREAT'.
Possibly would have done that if he'd got reelected. But now it's the big sulk and he's taken his ball home.
If Trump had done the following -
1) MAGA masks for PATRIOTS. Change them three times a day 2) AMERICAN VACCINES are the greatest in the world. Take them.
etc.. he would have been re-elected. And paid off his debts via (1).
He could have even hung his anti-migrant rhetoric on CLOSE THE BORDERS.
Seriously though, F1 needs to take a long hard look at itself. We've kept everyone hanging around in the pissing rain for hours. Made the rules up as they go along. And now drag everyone out for just long enough to not have to issue refunds for the non-race.
Which is, presumably, the entire point of today's performance?
@PoliticsForAlI Police cars revolving light | NEW: The doorman at the Aberdeen club is claiming Gove tried to avoid paying the £5 entry fee by boasting he was the “Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster”.
Much as I dislike Gove we’ve all done something like this. In the mid-90s I tried to get into a club in St Petersburg by pretending I was on the crew of Goldeneye.
Isn't Gove going to say all this was research for his vaxports for nightclubs project?
Talk of making him Foreign Secretary this week. I wonder how difficult it would be for a foreign spy agency to get him to compromise himself and find himself blackmailed.
In previous times that would be disqualifying for a senior cabinet role, let alone Foreign Secretary.
For dancing in a nightclub, or trying to avoid the entrance fee? If that's the worst that senior Cabinet Ministers do, I'll be impressed. And...surprised.
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
You do realise 1 in 3 American evangelicals are not white? Not particularly different to the US population as a whole. So when someone is criticising evangelicals the only link to white/not white criticism from that comment exists in your head, not from the person who said it.
Very few blacks are Trump voters though and yet he mysteriously appears in the header. Its pretty clear who is being singled out here, and its pretty clear why. Fair enough.
There’s nothing mysterious about it. There is a very obvious distinction between hesitancy and denialism, which a i’ve pointed out to you a couple of times in this thread. The latter has become part of a political identity, and is utterly irrational.
Oh I see so all vaccine hesitant people are vaccine hesitant, but some are more justifiably vaccine hesitant than others. The more 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant being black and ethnic minority people, and less 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant white Trump supporters. In other words prejudice, plain and simple. Lets call it what it is.
And as I point out below the only anti-vaxxers I have seen online are medical professionals. IE doctors. Are these people Trump supporters? who the heck knows.
Anti-vaxxers are medical professionals my arse! Maybe if you really want you can scour the entire internet and you can find a "medical professional" somewhere in the world with their own unique understanding. Try talking to the next doctor in your neighborhood, for a more typical view. Personally, intimately knowing actual real life frontline doctors who have been treating actual covid patients the last year or more I have observed a couple of things: 1. Actual real life frontline doctors are generally not posting on social media. Because they are too busy, you know, saving people's lives and shit. And because their lives are stressful enough without inviting tons of aggro from the anti-vax cultists. 2. Out of thousands of actual medical professionals that I am personally aware of, only 2 refused to be vaccinated. Both young female nurses who were trying to have babies who'd heard rumours that the vaccine might stop that.
And yes, the anti-vaxxers claiming to be doctors are probably Trump supporters. The woman who founded "America's frontline doctors" and its communications director were arrested for taking part in the January 6th attempted coup.
Dr Foxy has reported a reasonable number of medical professionals in their hospital won't get vaccinated.
There was the Vice video from the other day where I believe it was the Ozarks, only 50% of the hospital were vaccinated.
Mate of mine (yes, anecdote), a phlebotomist. Says many at their hospital, nurses, doctors the lot, not getting vaxxed.
The problem with Trump is not that he's antivaxx (he's not that stupid), but that he's tried to win the anti-vaxx votes by playing it off with a nudge and a wink rather than combatting antivaxxery.
In a parallel universe Trump could have successfully helped push vaccines to his followers on an "America First" principle: 'These vaccines WORK and THANKS TO ME, YOUR GREATEST EVER PRESIDENT, America ordered them FIRST to save AMERICANS LIVES FIRST. Go TODAY and get an AMERICAN VACCINE to defeat the CHINA VIRUS and KEEP AMERICA GREAT'.
Here's the thing, though.
Trump is a member of the metropolitan elite, and he believes in the achievements (like science) of the metropolitan elite.
But he is the leader of the anti-metropolitan elite. He became leader by saying thing that they wanted to hear. (That is his whole method: What do I get cheers for? Say more like that.) Could he get away with contradicting peoples' fundamental beliefs?
He could have by turning his most obnoxious 'strength' (rampant xenophobia) into his side. Hence why I wrote a Trump-style Tweet using Trump-style language. If he'd been putting that out daily since last year (before he got banned) and continued to do so regularly then I suspect half the anti-vaxx voices would have become pro-vaxx ones.
Don't make it science versus nature. Make it American versus China. AMERICAN VACCINES versus the CHINA VIRUS.
I think he had the power and standing to phrase it like that and Fox and others would have followed unequivocally. Which would have trickled down to the likes of MrEd, Contrarian, Lozza Fox and others who would have taken it that way too.
Don't make it about defeating Covid. Make it about America beating China. Americans would buy into that.
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
You do realise 1 in 3 American evangelicals are not white? Not particularly different to the US population as a whole. So when someone is criticising evangelicals the only link to white/not white criticism from that comment exists in your head, not from the person who said it.
Very few blacks are Trump voters though and yet he mysteriously appears in the header. Its pretty clear who is being singled out here, and its pretty clear why. Fair enough.
There’s nothing mysterious about it. There is a very obvious distinction between hesitancy and denialism, which a i’ve pointed out to you a couple of times in this thread. The latter has become part of a political identity, and is utterly irrational.
Oh I see so all vaccine hesitant people are vaccine hesitant, but some are more justifiably vaccine hesitant than others. The more 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant being black and ethnic minority people, and less 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant white Trump supporters. In other words prejudice, plain and simple. Lets call it what it is.
And as I point out below the only anti-vaxxers I have seen online are medical professionals. IE doctors. Are these people Trump supporters? who the heck knows.
Anti-vaxxers are medical professionals my arse! Maybe if you really want you can scour the entire internet and you can find a "medical professional" somewhere in the world with their own unique understanding. Try talking to the next doctor in your neighborhood, for a more typical view. Personally, intimately knowing actual real life frontline doctors who have been treating actual covid patients the last year or more I have observed a couple of things: 1. Actual real life frontline doctors are generally not posting on social media. Because they are too busy, you know, saving people's lives and shit. And because their lives are stressful enough without inviting tons of aggro from the anti-vax cultists. 2. Out of thousands of actual medical professionals that I am personally aware of, only 2 refused to be vaccinated. Both young female nurses who were trying to have babies who'd heard rumours that the vaccine might stop that.
And yes, the anti-vaxxers claiming to be doctors are probably Trump supporters. The woman who founded "America's frontline doctors" and its communications director were arrested for taking part in the January 6th attempted coup.
Dr Foxy has reported a reasonable number of medical professionals in their hospital won't get vaccinated.
There was the Vice video from the other day where I believe it was the Ozarks, only 50% of the hospital were vaccinated.
Sure, same thing applies though. If you look you can find hospital staff somewhere not getting vaccinated, but how typical is this? Presumably Vice got a video from the Ozarks, precisely because it isn't typical. (or is that local to Vice? I don't know who Vice are or where the Ozarks are)
@PoliticsForAlI Police cars revolving light | NEW: The doorman at the Aberdeen club is claiming Gove tried to avoid paying the £5 entry fee by boasting he was the “Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster”.
Much as I dislike Gove we’ve all done something like this. In the mid-90s I tried to get into a club in St Petersburg by pretending I was on the crew of Goldeneye.
Isn't Gove going to say all this was research for his vaxports for nightclubs project?
Talk of making him Foreign Secretary this week. I wonder how difficult it would be for a foreign spy agency to get him to compromise himself and find himself blackmailed.
In previous times that would be disqualifying for a senior cabinet role, let alone Foreign Secretary.
For dancing in a nightclub, or trying to avoid the entrance fee? If that's the worst that senior Cabinet Ministers do, I'll be impressed. And...surprised.
Indeed.
If DadDancing is enough to compromise people for security purposes, then every wedding video I have seen....
But jesus fucking christ. We are facing a grave threat which has the potential to kill many of us.
And PB almost to a man (person) embraced then and is embracing now illiberal measures unprecedented in our own times. Yes it is an unprecedented pandemic but the way people on here are completely suspending their normal critical faculties is a sight to behold.
No one knows what long term effects the vaccine has but more important, you are all cheering mandatory vaccination. The government forcing people to inject something into their bodies.
@PoliticsForAlI Police cars revolving light | NEW: The doorman at the Aberdeen club is claiming Gove tried to avoid paying the £5 entry fee by boasting he was the “Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster”.
Much as I dislike Gove we’ve all done something like this. In the mid-90s I tried to get into a club in St Petersburg by pretending I was on the crew of Goldeneye.
Isn't Gove going to say all this was research for his vaxports for nightclubs project?
Talk of making him Foreign Secretary this week. I wonder how difficult it would be for a foreign spy agency to get him to compromise himself and find himself blackmailed.
In previous times that would be disqualifying for a senior cabinet role, let alone Foreign Secretary.
For dancing in a nightclub, or trying to avoid the entrance fee? If that's the worst that senior Cabinet Ministers do, I'll be impressed. And...surprised.
I’m sure he was taking the piss. No one has that lack of self awareness
An alternative take on Brexit-induced worker shortages:
Employers have only a limited range of options if they find themselves short of staff and it is not possible to call up reinforcements from overseas. They can invest more in labour-saving equipment; they can invest more in training to raise skill levels; or they can pay more in order to attract staff. It is not immediately obvious why any of these should be either impossible or undesirable.
Naturally, companies cannot solve immediate labour shortage issues by ramping up training or buying new kit. Both take time to organise and to have any real impact. That only really leaves the option of paying higher wages, which explains why Tesco is offering a £1,000 sign-on bonus for new lorry drivers.
...
Against this backdrop, it is perhaps unsurprising that Brexit divided the nation in the way it did. If you were in a relatively well-paid job and not at risk of being replaced or undercut by a worker from overseas, you were likely to vote remain. The Polish plumber was cheaper, the Lithuanian nanny was better educated, so what was not to like?
If, on the other hand, you were part of Britain’s casualised workforce, needing two or more part-time jobs to get by, you were much more likely to vote leave, on the grounds that tougher controls on migration would lead to a tighter labour market, which in turn would push up wages.
For those who have nothing to fear from open borders, labour shortages are evidence Brexit is flawed. For those not so fortunate, it is doing what it was supposed to do.
In a globalised world, is it easier to take the jobs overseas, or to train up the people here?
Offshoring is unnecessary on labour shortage grounds in better paid sectors, where companies will be able to bring workers in from abroad if they need to: the main point of regaining control of the borders is to cut off the limitless flow of coffee shop baristas and chancers looking for casual labour on building sites or in hand car washes, not to exclude computer programmers. OTOH it's mostly an empty threat to low-paid work. You can't offshore supermarket shelf stacking or wiping the arses of the demented.
An alternative take on Brexit-induced worker shortages:
Employers have only a limited range of options if they find themselves short of staff and it is not possible to call up reinforcements from overseas. They can invest more in labour-saving equipment; they can invest more in training to raise skill levels; or they can pay more in order to attract staff. It is not immediately obvious why any of these should be either impossible or undesirable.
Naturally, companies cannot solve immediate labour shortage issues by ramping up training or buying new kit. Both take time to organise and to have any real impact. That only really leaves the option of paying higher wages, which explains why Tesco is offering a £1,000 sign-on bonus for new lorry drivers.
...
Against this backdrop, it is perhaps unsurprising that Brexit divided the nation in the way it did. If you were in a relatively well-paid job and not at risk of being replaced or undercut by a worker from overseas, you were likely to vote remain. The Polish plumber was cheaper, the Lithuanian nanny was better educated, so what was not to like?
If, on the other hand, you were part of Britain’s casualised workforce, needing two or more part-time jobs to get by, you were much more likely to vote leave, on the grounds that tougher controls on migration would lead to a tighter labour market, which in turn would push up wages.
For those who have nothing to fear from open borders, labour shortages are evidence Brexit is flawed. For those not so fortunate, it is doing what it was supposed to do.
The problem is that among the high-end-credentialled classes (think top universities, white collar professionals) a labour surplus is now impossible. World wide. This is because countries such as India and Chine (and many others) have begun their move to service industries. The rate at which such high end professionals are trained is below the requirements of the world economy and will be for the forceable future.
Yes, universities are expanding at a rate of knots, but there is a quality issue. Even if there was not, the rate of expansion is still slower than the rate at which demand for such professionals is expanding, world wide.
So to someone in the high end professional classes, open borders is associated with *growing wages*.
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
Why would you posit getting and surviving Covid as an alternative to vaccines?
Its not either/or, if you have a vaccine, you're far more likely to survive Covid.
I don't posit it as an alternative for most people, but I don;t see why you need a vaccine if you have had covid.
For healthy children between 12 and 15 I definitely would say that getting covid is an alternative to having an MRNA vaccine. Much better and more durable protection, almost no reinfection.
Its not better, its far, far worse. A 12 to 15 year old could die from getting Covid.
A vaccine protects them and then if they get infected they can very easily fight it off and have two forms of protection.
They could also die from getting the vaccine. Its very rare, but it does happen. Are there medium or long term effects? Probably not, but you cannot say for sure, because you don;t have the data and you know you don't.
Long term effects. That's one for the anti-vaxxer bingo.
Yeah, as if there are no long term risks of infection...
Perhaps if such an unlikely thing is ever found we could call it "long covid"?
@PoliticsForAlI Police cars revolving light | NEW: The doorman at the Aberdeen club is claiming Gove tried to avoid paying the £5 entry fee by boasting he was the “Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster”.
Much as I dislike Gove we’ve all done something like this. In the mid-90s I tried to get into a club in St Petersburg by pretending I was on the crew of Goldeneye.
Isn't Gove going to say all this was research for his vaxports for nightclubs project?
Talk of making him Foreign Secretary this week. I wonder how difficult it would be for a foreign spy agency to get him to compromise himself and find himself blackmailed.
In previous times that would be disqualifying for a senior cabinet role, let alone Foreign Secretary.
For dancing in a nightclub, or trying to avoid the entrance fee? If that's the worst that senior Cabinet Ministers do, I'll be impressed. And...surprised.
Nothing wrong with either of those at all. However mid 50s, marriage break up, going to clubs on his own seems pretty ripe for the old honey trap.
An alternative take on Brexit-induced worker shortages:
Employers have only a limited range of options if they find themselves short of staff and it is not possible to call up reinforcements from overseas. They can invest more in labour-saving equipment; they can invest more in training to raise skill levels; or they can pay more in order to attract staff. It is not immediately obvious why any of these should be either impossible or undesirable.
Naturally, companies cannot solve immediate labour shortage issues by ramping up training or buying new kit. Both take time to organise and to have any real impact. That only really leaves the option of paying higher wages, which explains why Tesco is offering a £1,000 sign-on bonus for new lorry drivers.
...
Against this backdrop, it is perhaps unsurprising that Brexit divided the nation in the way it did. If you were in a relatively well-paid job and not at risk of being replaced or undercut by a worker from overseas, you were likely to vote remain. The Polish plumber was cheaper, the Lithuanian nanny was better educated, so what was not to like?
If, on the other hand, you were part of Britain’s casualised workforce, needing two or more part-time jobs to get by, you were much more likely to vote leave, on the grounds that tougher controls on migration would lead to a tighter labour market, which in turn would push up wages.
For those who have nothing to fear from open borders, labour shortages are evidence Brexit is flawed. For those not so fortunate, it is doing what it was supposed to do.
In a globalised world, is it easier to take the jobs overseas, or to train up the people here?
Offshoring is unnecessary on labour shortage grounds in better paid sectors, where companies will be able to bring workers in from abroad if they need to: the main point of regaining control of the borders is to cut off the limitless flow of coffee shop baristas and chancers looking for casual labour on building sites or in hand car washes, not to exclude computer programmers. OTOH it's mostly an empty threat to low-paid work. You can't offshore supermarket shelf stacking or wiping the arses of the demented.
More anecdotes. In the horsey world you just cannot get staff. Not a groom to be had. Perhaps it's furlough. Not many previous EU grooms so not sure it is Brexit.
Looking at the racing industry, twenty years ago lads were local to the yard or from Ireland. Now it's probably a majority from the Indian subcontinent. I wonder if eventing, etc will go the same way
But jesus fucking christ. We are facing a grave threat which has the potential to kill many of us.
And PB almost to a man (person) embraced then and is embracing now illiberal measures unprecedented in our own times. Yes it is an unprecedented pandemic but the way people on here are completely suspending their normal critical faculties is a sight to behold.
No one knows what long term effects the vaccine has but more important, you are all cheering mandatory vaccination. The government forcing people to inject something into their bodies.
Quite extraordinary.
Who is cheering that? Who has proposed it? How would it even work? There has never been compulsory vaccination of adults in this country, and I don't see it happening.
The data says that black and ethnic minority citizens are less likely to have been vaccinated than whites in America.
Will Mike and TSE be calling black and ethnic minority citizens who are resistant to taking vaccines ''ignorant cretins? ''
Or is that insult merely for people they would despise in any case, simply because they are Trump supporters...??
You’re putting word in Mike’s mouth. This is the context for his ‘cretins’ epithet: Daniel Darling, senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters, was fired Friday (Aug. 27) after refusing to admit his pro-vaccine statements were mistaken…
That’s the idiocy you’re defending.
I am not defending anti-vaxxers. I never have. Vaccines are very effective, although its becoming clearer that they are not as effective as getting and surviving covid.
I am simply asking why one subset of the vaccine hesitant (Trump supporting whites), is called 'ignorant cretins' and not all of those subsets.
You do realise 1 in 3 American evangelicals are not white? Not particularly different to the US population as a whole. So when someone is criticising evangelicals the only link to white/not white criticism from that comment exists in your head, not from the person who said it.
Very few blacks are Trump voters though and yet he mysteriously appears in the header. Its pretty clear who is being singled out here, and its pretty clear why. Fair enough.
There’s nothing mysterious about it. There is a very obvious distinction between hesitancy and denialism, which a i’ve pointed out to you a couple of times in this thread. The latter has become part of a political identity, and is utterly irrational.
Oh I see so all vaccine hesitant people are vaccine hesitant, but some are more justifiably vaccine hesitant than others. The more 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant being black and ethnic minority people, and less 'justifiably' vaccine hesitant white Trump supporters. In other words prejudice, plain and simple. Lets call it what it is.
And as I point out below the only anti-vaxxers I have seen online are medical professionals. IE doctors. Are these people Trump supporters? who the heck knows.
That's remarkable if you've been able to see only the tiny proportion of online antivax nuttery that comes from medical professionals.
Quite so, I wasn't aware that Laurence Fox and his admirers were medical professionals. Far from it. This is a typical Lozza contribution from the other day: In the end, it will be the unvaccinated that preserve the remnants of what used to be a liberal democracy.
I wonder if our contrarian friend supports Lozza's sentiment?
Lozza's output gets ever more crazy. I really don't know where it's all going to end up for him. I somehow can't quite go the whole "denounce this rancid far right commentator!" with him because it's a certain type of dense plonkery that comes through most strongly, plus those Lewises are still playing on repeat and there he still is as Hathaway.
But jesus fucking christ. We are facing a grave threat which has the potential to kill many of us.
And PB almost to a man (person) embraced then and is embracing now illiberal measures unprecedented in our own times. Yes it is an unprecedented pandemic but the way people on here are completely suspending their normal critical faculties is a sight to behold.
No one knows what long term effects the vaccine has but more important, you are all cheering mandatory vaccination. The government forcing people to inject something into their bodies.
Quite extraordinary.
I'm not. People are free to not get vaccinated. And I am free to call them irresponsible, selfish fools.
But jesus fucking christ. We are facing a grave threat which has the potential to kill many of us.
And PB almost to a man (person) embraced then and is embracing now illiberal measures unprecedented in our own times. Yes it is an unprecedented pandemic but the way people on here are completely suspending their normal critical faculties is a sight to behold.
No one knows what long term effects the vaccine has but more important, you are all cheering mandatory vaccination. The government forcing people to inject something into their bodies.
Quite extraordinary.
I'm not. People are free to not get vaccinated. And I am free to call them irresponsible, selfish fools.
Has anyone on here suggested vaccination be mandatory? I can't recall seeing it.
The problem with Trump is not that he's antivaxx (he's not that stupid), but that he's tried to win the anti-vaxx votes by playing it off with a nudge and a wink rather than combatting antivaxxery.
In a parallel universe Trump could have successfully helped push vaccines to his followers on an "America First" principle: 'These vaccines WORK and THANKS TO ME, YOUR GREATEST EVER PRESIDENT, America ordered them FIRST to save AMERICANS LIVES FIRST. Go TODAY and get an AMERICAN VACCINE to defeat the CHINA VIRUS and KEEP AMERICA GREAT'.
Here's the thing, though.
Trump is a member of the metropolitan elite, and he believes in the achievements (like science) of the metropolitan elite.
But he is the leader of the anti-metropolitan elite. He became leader by saying thing that they wanted to hear. (That is his whole method: What do I get cheers for? Say more like that.) Could he get away with contradicting peoples' fundamental beliefs?
He could have by turning his most obnoxious 'strength' (rampant xenophobia) into his side. Hence why I wrote a Trump-style Tweet using Trump-style language. If he'd been putting that out daily since last year (before he got banned) and continued to do so regularly then I suspect half the anti-vaxx voices would have become pro-vaxx ones.
Don't make it science versus nature. Make it American versus China. AMERICAN VACCINES versus the CHINA VIRUS.
I think he had the power and standing to phrase it like that and Fox and others would have followed unequivocally. Which would have trickled down to the likes of MrEd, Contrarian, Lozza Fox and others who would have taken it that way too.
Don't make it about defeating Covid. Make it about America beating China. Americans would buy into that.
I want an apology from you for that comment @Philip_Thompson. I am double vaccinated and have never come on here saying about you should be anti-vaccination. The only comment I have come even close to on this is expressing worries that one of the companies involved (Moderna) was near bankruptcy pre-it’s vaccine rollout and that raises questions about whether there were any short cuts especially given there are liability waivers. But that is nowhere near the anti-vaccine stuff.
You have spread a falsehood about me on a public forum. I want an apology.
I like lots of stuff that has limited appeal to many (NFL for example) but I really don’t “get” the appeal of F1
Do you mean Motor Racing in general, or specifically F1?
Specifically F1. I’m not a huge fan of motorsports in general but F1 seems to be more of a procession than the others.
It certainly seems to have that problem. I've been watching it for 25 years and there always seems to be a discussion going on about how they can make it easier to overtake. The new rules for next year are supposed to help, but then they say that pretty much every year.
I guess as a fan, the bits that I find exciting don't happen very often, but when they do, they're *really* exciting. Bit like Test Cricket!
But jesus fucking christ. We are facing a grave threat which has the potential to kill many of us.
And PB almost to a man (person) embraced then and is embracing now illiberal measures unprecedented in our own times. Yes it is an unprecedented pandemic but the way people on here are completely suspending their normal critical faculties is a sight to behold.
No one knows what long term effects the vaccine has but more important, you are all cheering mandatory vaccination. The government forcing people to inject something into their bodies.
Quite extraordinary.
I'm not. People are free to not get vaccinated. And I am free to call them irresponsible, selfish fools.
Has anyone on here suggested vaccination be mandatory? I can't recall seeing it.
I think some people have advocated vac-passports for pubs and clubs. *I think*
There have been a few (including myself) who have advocated that vaccination should be mandatory for a limited sub-set of jobs. Medical and care home staff....
But jesus fucking christ. We are facing a grave threat which has the potential to kill many of us.
And PB almost to a man (person) embraced then and is embracing now illiberal measures unprecedented in our own times. Yes it is an unprecedented pandemic but the way people on here are completely suspending their normal critical faculties is a sight to behold.
No one knows what long term effects the vaccine has but more important, you are all cheering mandatory vaccination. The government forcing people to inject something into their bodies.
Quite extraordinary.
Who's supporting mandatory vaccinations?
Mandatory vaccinations as a condition of employment is as old as vaccinations themselves. That's entirely reasonable just as the mandatory wearing of a uniform as a condition of employment.
Being antivaxx or unvaccinated should be as socially stigmatised and viewed as irresponsible as drinking and driving. But unlike that it shouldn't be illegal.
The problem with Trump is not that he's antivaxx (he's not that stupid), but that he's tried to win the anti-vaxx votes by playing it off with a nudge and a wink rather than combatting antivaxxery.
In a parallel universe Trump could have successfully helped push vaccines to his followers on an "America First" principle: 'These vaccines WORK and THANKS TO ME, YOUR GREATEST EVER PRESIDENT, America ordered them FIRST to save AMERICANS LIVES FIRST. Go TODAY and get an AMERICAN VACCINE to defeat the CHINA VIRUS and KEEP AMERICA GREAT'.
Here's the thing, though.
Trump is a member of the metropolitan elite, and he believes in the achievements (like science) of the metropolitan elite.
But he is the leader of the anti-metropolitan elite. He became leader by saying thing that they wanted to hear. (That is his whole method: What do I get cheers for? Say more like that.) Could he get away with contradicting peoples' fundamental beliefs?
He could have by turning his most obnoxious 'strength' (rampant xenophobia) into his side. Hence why I wrote a Trump-style Tweet using Trump-style language. If he'd been putting that out daily since last year (before he got banned) and continued to do so regularly then I suspect half the anti-vaxx voices would have become pro-vaxx ones.
Don't make it science versus nature. Make it American versus China. AMERICAN VACCINES versus the CHINA VIRUS.
I think he had the power and standing to phrase it like that and Fox and others would have followed unequivocally. Which would have trickled down to the likes of MrEd, Contrarian, Lozza Fox and others who would have taken it that way too.
Don't make it about defeating Covid. Make it about America beating China. Americans would buy into that.
I want an apology from you for that comment @Philip_Thompson. I am double vaccinated and have never come on here saying about you should be anti-vaccination. The only comment I have come even close to on this is expressing worries that one of the companies involved (Moderna) was near bankruptcy pre-it’s vaccine rollout and that raises questions about whether there were any short cuts especially given there are liability waivers. But that is nowhere near the anti-vaccine stuff.
You have spread a falsehood about me on a public forum. I want an apology.
But jesus fucking christ. We are facing a grave threat which has the potential to kill many of us.
And PB almost to a man (person) embraced then and is embracing now illiberal measures unprecedented in our own times. Yes it is an unprecedented pandemic but the way people on here are completely suspending their normal critical faculties is a sight to behold.
No one knows what long term effects the vaccine has but more important, you are all cheering mandatory vaccination. The government forcing people to inject something into their bodies.
Quite extraordinary.
Who is cheering that? Who has proposed it? How would it even work? There has never been compulsory vaccination of adults in this country, and I don't see it happening.
That's great and leaving aside the Covid Pass which allows people to participate in normal life, so why are you giving @contrarian such a hard time.
The problem with Trump is not that he's antivaxx (he's not that stupid), but that he's tried to win the anti-vaxx votes by playing it off with a nudge and a wink rather than combatting antivaxxery.
In a parallel universe Trump could have successfully helped push vaccines to his followers on an "America First" principle: 'These vaccines WORK and THANKS TO ME, YOUR GREATEST EVER PRESIDENT, America ordered them FIRST to save AMERICANS LIVES FIRST. Go TODAY and get an AMERICAN VACCINE to defeat the CHINA VIRUS and KEEP AMERICA GREAT'.
Here's the thing, though.
Trump is a member of the metropolitan elite, and he believes in the achievements (like science) of the metropolitan elite.
But he is the leader of the anti-metropolitan elite. He became leader by saying thing that they wanted to hear. (That is his whole method: What do I get cheers for? Say more like that.) Could he get away with contradicting peoples' fundamental beliefs?
He could have by turning his most obnoxious 'strength' (rampant xenophobia) into his side. Hence why I wrote a Trump-style Tweet using Trump-style language. If he'd been putting that out daily since last year (before he got banned) and continued to do so regularly then I suspect half the anti-vaxx voices would have become pro-vaxx ones.
Don't make it science versus nature. Make it American versus China. AMERICAN VACCINES versus the CHINA VIRUS.
I think he had the power and standing to phrase it like that and Fox and others would have followed unequivocally. Which would have trickled down to the likes of MrEd, Contrarian, Lozza Fox and others who would have taken it that way too.
Don't make it about defeating Covid. Make it about America beating China. Americans would buy into that.
I want an apology from you for that comment @Philip_Thompson. I am double vaccinated and have never come on here saying about you should be anti-vaccination. The only comment I have come even close to on this is expressing worries that one of the companies involved (Moderna) was near bankruptcy pre-it’s vaccine rollout and that raises questions about whether there were any short cuts especially given there are liability waivers. But that is nowhere near the anti-vaccine stuff.
You have spread a falsehood about me on a public forum. I want an apology.
My apologies. Sorry I lumped you in with them.
Thank you for being so quick at coming back, Philip, much appreciated and a credit to you.
But jesus fucking christ. We are facing a grave threat which has the potential to kill many of us.
And PB almost to a man (person) embraced then and is embracing now illiberal measures unprecedented in our own times. Yes it is an unprecedented pandemic but the way people on here are completely suspending their normal critical faculties is a sight to behold.
No one knows what long term effects the vaccine has but more important, you are all cheering mandatory vaccination. The government forcing people to inject something into their bodies.
Quite extraordinary.
Who is cheering that? Who has proposed it? How would it even work? There has never been compulsory vaccination of adults in this country, and I don't see it happening.
That's great and leaving aside the Covid Pass which allows people to participate in normal life, so why are you giving @contrarian such a hard time.
Because he's unvaccinated and sharing antivaxx memes, misrepresentations and outright falsehoods.
But jesus fucking christ. We are facing a grave threat which has the potential to kill many of us.
And PB almost to a man (person) embraced then and is embracing now illiberal measures unprecedented in our own times. Yes it is an unprecedented pandemic but the way people on here are completely suspending their normal critical faculties is a sight to behold.
No one knows what long term effects the vaccine has but more important, you are all cheering mandatory vaccination. The government forcing people to inject something into their bodies.
Quite extraordinary.
Who is cheering that? Who has proposed it? How would it even work? There has never been compulsory vaccination of adults in this country, and I don't see it happening.
That's great and leaving aside the Covid Pass which allows people to participate in normal life, so why are you giving @contrarian such a hard time.
Because he is talking nonsense, combined with a few of I'm-not-anti-vax-but-here's-another-anti-vax-meme
Great. People on here are not advocating mandatory vaccination. At least not legally. So a choice is allowed but the language used certainly gives the impression that it should be.
The problem with Trump is not that he's antivaxx (he's not that stupid), but that he's tried to win the anti-vaxx votes by playing it off with a nudge and a wink rather than combatting antivaxxery.
In a parallel universe Trump could have successfully helped push vaccines to his followers on an "America First" principle: 'These vaccines WORK and THANKS TO ME, YOUR GREATEST EVER PRESIDENT, America ordered them FIRST to save AMERICANS LIVES FIRST. Go TODAY and get an AMERICAN VACCINE to defeat the CHINA VIRUS and KEEP AMERICA GREAT'.
Possibly would have done that if he'd got reelected. But now it's the big sulk and he's taken his ball home.
If Trump had done the following -
1) MAGA masks for PATRIOTS. Change them three times a day 2) AMERICAN VACCINES are the greatest in the world. Take them.
etc.. he would have been re-elected. And paid off his debts via (1).
He could have even hung his anti-migrant rhetoric on CLOSE THE BORDERS.
But jesus fucking christ. We are facing a grave threat which has the potential to kill many of us.
And PB almost to a man (person) embraced then and is embracing now illiberal measures unprecedented in our own times. Yes it is an unprecedented pandemic but the way people on here are completely suspending their normal critical faculties is a sight to behold.
No one knows what long term effects the vaccine has but more important, you are all cheering mandatory vaccination. The government forcing people to inject something into their bodies.
Quite extraordinary.
Who's supporting mandatory vaccinations?
Mandatory vaccinations as a condition of employment is as old as vaccinations themselves. That's entirely reasonable just as the mandatory wearing of a uniform as a condition of employment.
Being antivaxx or unvaccinated should be as socially stigmatised and viewed as irresponsible as drinking and driving. But unlike that it shouldn't be illegal.
Why if you are unvaccinated should you be stigmatised?
I like lots of stuff that has limited appeal to many (NFL for example) but I really don’t “get” the appeal of F1
Do you mean Motor Racing in general, or specifically F1?
Specifically F1. I’m not a huge fan of motorsports in general but F1 seems to be more of a procession than the others.
It certainly seems to have that problem. I've been watching it for 25 years and there always seems to be a discussion going on about how they can make it easier to overtake. The new rules for next year are supposed to help, but then they say that pretty much every year.
I guess as a fan, the bits that I find exciting don't happen very often, but when they do, they're *really* exciting. Bit like Test Cricket!
they should have been able to find some vehicles to race round the track without falling off, to entertain the crowd while the F1 drivers played chess.
same for cricket when it rains. hovercraft racing would be something to look at and might help dry the outfield.
An alternative take on Brexit-induced worker shortages:
Employers have only a limited range of options if they find themselves short of staff and it is not possible to call up reinforcements from overseas. They can invest more in labour-saving equipment; they can invest more in training to raise skill levels; or they can pay more in order to attract staff. It is not immediately obvious why any of these should be either impossible or undesirable.
Naturally, companies cannot solve immediate labour shortage issues by ramping up training or buying new kit. Both take time to organise and to have any real impact. That only really leaves the option of paying higher wages, which explains why Tesco is offering a £1,000 sign-on bonus for new lorry drivers.
...
Against this backdrop, it is perhaps unsurprising that Brexit divided the nation in the way it did. If you were in a relatively well-paid job and not at risk of being replaced or undercut by a worker from overseas, you were likely to vote remain. The Polish plumber was cheaper, the Lithuanian nanny was better educated, so what was not to like?
If, on the other hand, you were part of Britain’s casualised workforce, needing two or more part-time jobs to get by, you were much more likely to vote leave, on the grounds that tougher controls on migration would lead to a tighter labour market, which in turn would push up wages.
For those who have nothing to fear from open borders, labour shortages are evidence Brexit is flawed. For those not so fortunate, it is doing what it was supposed to do.
In a globalised world, is it easier to take the jobs overseas, or to train up the people here?
Offshoring is unnecessary on labour shortage grounds in better paid sectors, where companies will be able to bring workers in from abroad if they need to: the main point of regaining control of the borders is to cut off the limitless flow of coffee shop baristas and chancers looking for casual labour on building sites or in hand car washes, not to exclude computer programmers. OTOH it's mostly an empty threat to low-paid work. You can't offshore supermarket shelf stacking or wiping the arses of the demented.
More anecdotes. In the horsey world you just cannot get staff. Not a groom to be had. Perhaps it's furlough. Not many previous EU grooms so not sure it is Brexit.
Looking at the racing industry, twenty years ago lads were local to the yard or from Ireland. Now it's probably a majority from the Indian subcontinent. I wonder if eventing, etc will go the same way
Too many other jobs with slightly better pay, far better hours and you don't go home smelling of horseshit.
Great. People on here are not advocating mandatory vaccination. At least not legally. So a choice is allowed but the language used certainly gives the impression that it should be.
Nope. That's the thing about the freedom of choice. It doesn't come with a "Free of all consequences" guarantee.
If you want to advocate anti-vax by "nudge nudge, wink wink, some-of-my-best-friends..." then you will get stern words in return.
Great. People on here are not advocating mandatory vaccination. At least not legally. So a choice is allowed but the language used certainly gives the impression that it should be.
Not getting vaccinated is as stupid as drinking a bottle of vodka and getting behind the wheel.
Sure you might not die, sure you might not lead to the death of others and sure you can die sober too, but that doesn't make it any less irresponsible.
And people falsely comparing vaccines to being struck by lightning or other bullshit using false figures should be called out for being false.
If there were anything to what contrarian had to say, he wouldn't need to be using easily disprovable false figures on a daily basis.
But jesus fucking christ. We are facing a grave threat which has the potential to kill many of us.
And PB almost to a man (person) embraced then and is embracing now illiberal measures unprecedented in our own times. Yes it is an unprecedented pandemic but the way people on here are completely suspending their normal critical faculties is a sight to behold.
No one knows what long term effects the vaccine has but more important, you are all cheering mandatory vaccination. The government forcing people to inject something into their bodies.
Quite extraordinary.
Who is cheering that? Who has proposed it? How would it even work? There has never been compulsory vaccination of adults in this country, and I don't see it happening.
That's great and leaving aside the Covid Pass which allows people to participate in normal life, so why are you giving @contrarian such a hard time.
Because he is talking nonsense, combined with a few of I'm-not-anti-vax-but-here's-another-anti-vax-meme
He has consistently questioned the prevailing orthodoxy while everyone else fell into line instantly.
But jesus fucking christ. We are facing a grave threat which has the potential to kill many of us.
And PB almost to a man (person) embraced then and is embracing now illiberal measures unprecedented in our own times. Yes it is an unprecedented pandemic but the way people on here are completely suspending their normal critical faculties is a sight to behold.
No one knows what long term effects the vaccine has but more important, you are all cheering mandatory vaccination. The government forcing people to inject something into their bodies.
Quite extraordinary.
Who is cheering that? Who has proposed it? How would it even work? There has never been compulsory vaccination of adults in this country, and I don't see it happening.
That's great and leaving aside the Covid Pass which allows people to participate in normal life, so why are you giving @contrarian such a hard time.
Because he's unvaccinated and sharing antivaxx memes, misrepresentations and outright falsehoods.
He deserves a hard time for that does he not?
He has chosen not to let the government tell him what to put inside his body.
But jesus fucking christ. We are facing a grave threat which has the potential to kill many of us.
And PB almost to a man (person) embraced then and is embracing now illiberal measures unprecedented in our own times. Yes it is an unprecedented pandemic but the way people on here are completely suspending their normal critical faculties is a sight to behold.
No one knows what long term effects the vaccine has but more important, you are all cheering mandatory vaccination. The government forcing people to inject something into their bodies.
Quite extraordinary.
Who is cheering that? Who has proposed it? How would it even work? There has never been compulsory vaccination of adults in this country, and I don't see it happening.
That's great and leaving aside the Covid Pass which allows people to participate in normal life, so why are you giving @contrarian such a hard time.
Because he is talking nonsense, combined with a few of I'm-not-anti-vax-but-here's-another-anti-vax-meme
He has consistently questioned the prevailing orthodoxy while everyone else fell into line instantly.
He should be given a PB medal.
You mean, for example the horse shit in this very thread, where he suggested that COVID infection was a better idea than vaccination?
But jesus fucking christ. We are facing a grave threat which has the potential to kill many of us.
And PB almost to a man (person) embraced then and is embracing now illiberal measures unprecedented in our own times. Yes it is an unprecedented pandemic but the way people on here are completely suspending their normal critical faculties is a sight to behold.
No one knows what long term effects the vaccine has but more important, you are all cheering mandatory vaccination. The government forcing people to inject something into their bodies.
Quite extraordinary.
Who is cheering that? Who has proposed it? How would it even work? There has never been compulsory vaccination of adults in this country, and I don't see it happening.
That's great and leaving aside the Covid Pass which allows people to participate in normal life, so why are you giving @contrarian such a hard time.
Because he is talking nonsense, combined with a few of I'm-not-anti-vax-but-here's-another-anti-vax-meme
He has consistently questioned the prevailing orthodoxy while everyone else fell into line instantly.
He should be given a PB medal.
That's absolutely not true.
Plenty here have questioned the orthodoxy too. But they've done so honestly.
He questions it with untruths, bullshit and lies. No medal for that.
Comments
I did successfully crash a David Copperfield/Claudia Schiffer $1500 a plate do in Bryant Park in NYC, but that was because both myself and my fellow crashers were all so drunk we acted like we owned the world (and we all had British, Kiwi or Aussie accents, which probably helped).
He wants more people of all ages to die, including children.
This vax is being pushed by people who aren't like me, and don't share my values, therefore I am going to be sceptical of it.
They were the warm up for Justin Timberlake.
Best ever warm up. James Brown for the Red Hot Chili Peppers in 2004.
In the long term, unless they up their automotive quality, they will fade to a medium large player.
I think the future in automotive is hi-tech. Tesla really forced the pace (apart from the self-driving thing*) on IT in cars. Even now, the quality of software/integration on many cars lags theirs.
*Where they are average now.
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/08/22/trump-alabama-rally-vaccine-crowd-boos-sot-ip-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/
Fair enough. The impact of social media on radicalization is a huge field.
Probably should discourage them from going to see Granny too much this term, but the whole thing would be done and dusted well before the NHS winter pressures start to pick up after half-term.
All the measures are doing at the moment is pointlessly stretching out the inevitable over a longer time period.
Trump is a member of the metropolitan elite, and he believes in the achievements (like science) of the metropolitan elite.
But he is the leader of the anti-metropolitan elite. He became leader by saying thing that they wanted to hear. (That is his whole method: What do I get cheers for? Say more like that.) Could he get away with contradicting peoples' fundamental beliefs?
1. Actual real life frontline doctors are generally not posting on social media. Because they are too busy, you know, saving people's lives and shit. And because their lives are stressful enough without inviting tons of aggro from the anti-vax cultists.
2. Out of thousands of actual medical professionals that I am personally aware of, only 2 refused to be vaccinated. Both young female nurses who were trying to have babies who'd heard rumours that the vaccine might stop that.
And yes, the anti-vaxxers claiming to be doctors are probably Trump supporters. The woman who founded "America's frontline doctors" and its communications director were arrested for taking part in the January 6th attempted coup.
Viral load matters.
If a 15 year old is in a classroom and one of the kids has it, they might get 100 units of Covid. If they go to ten classes, and there are ten kids in each wit Covid, they might get 10,000 units.
And the amount you get dosed with has a significant impact on your likelihood of getting really sick. It's one of the reasons why - at the start of upturns - there are lots of mild cases; it's because people only get small doses. But if everyone has Covid, then there's an awful lot of viral matter in the air, and peoples' initial doses will be much, much higher.
And it's also why masks are important. They cut viral load. They don't just impact your likelihood of catching Covid, they impact the likely severity of cases.
There was the Vice video from the other day where I believe it was the Ozarks, only 50% of the hospital were vaccinated.
Obsessing over school outbreaks just means that we're going to end up with yet more stupid Zoom lessons and an increasing level of demands for/panic about more bloody lockdowns come the Winter. Absolutely the worst of all worlds.
In previous times that would be disqualifying for a senior cabinet role, let alone Foreign Secretary.
Malaysia... 2009, I think it was, featured an actual monsoon.
More seriously though, apparently they have a huge antivaxxer problem. Only something like a 1/3 of the population are vaxxed and as I say even the hospital staff won't get vaxxed, even though they are seeing loads of cases
Don't make it science versus nature. Make it American versus China. AMERICAN VACCINES versus the CHINA VIRUS.
I think he had the power and standing to phrase it like that and Fox and others would have followed unequivocally. Which would have trickled down to the likes of MrEd, Contrarian, Lozza Fox and others who would have taken it that way too.
Don't make it about defeating Covid. Make it about America beating China. Americans would buy into that.
While out East, Bulgaria, Romania, etc., are all on less (sometimes way less) than 50%.
In Germany, the West is well vaccinated (Lander like Bremen are already over 90% of adults), while in the East it's more like 55-60%.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I think sensitivity to Russian propaganda plays a role.
Employers have only a limited range of options if they find themselves short of staff and it is not possible to call up reinforcements from overseas. They can invest more in labour-saving equipment; they can invest more in training to raise skill levels; or they can pay more in order to attract staff. It is not immediately obvious why any of these should be either impossible or undesirable.
Naturally, companies cannot solve immediate labour shortage issues by ramping up training or buying new kit. Both take time to organise and to have any real impact. That only really leaves the option of paying higher wages, which explains why Tesco is offering a £1,000 sign-on bonus for new lorry drivers.
...
Against this backdrop, it is perhaps unsurprising that Brexit divided the nation in the way it did. If you were in a relatively well-paid job and not at risk of being replaced or undercut by a worker from overseas, you were likely to vote remain. The Polish plumber was cheaper, the Lithuanian nanny was better educated, so what was not to like?
If, on the other hand, you were part of Britain’s casualised workforce, needing two or more part-time jobs to get by, you were much more likely to vote leave, on the grounds that tougher controls on migration would lead to a tighter labour market, which in turn would push up wages.
For those who have nothing to fear from open borders, labour shortages are evidence Brexit is flawed. For those not so fortunate, it is doing what it was supposed to do.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/aug/29/so-whats-so-wrong-with-labour-shortages-driving-up-low-wages
The question is what happens next?
In a globalised world, is it easier to take the jobs overseas, or to train up the people here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AvhEnb6iro
If you don't want to watch the whole thing here are the edited highlights:
5:05 to 5:40
9:38 to 11:05
13:45 to 14:05
20:20 to 20:45
21:00 to 21:10
23:56 - 3 questions on Human Rights organisations is hilarious it seems
24:55 to 25:45
1) MAGA masks for PATRIOTS. Change them three times a day
2) AMERICAN VACCINES are the greatest in the world. Take them.
etc.. he would have been re-elected. And paid off his debts via (1).
He could have even hung his anti-migrant rhetoric on CLOSE THE BORDERS.
If DadDancing is enough to compromise people for security purposes, then every wedding video I have seen....
And PB almost to a man (person) embraced then and is embracing now illiberal measures unprecedented in our own times. Yes it is an unprecedented pandemic but the way people on here are completely suspending their normal critical faculties is a sight to behold.
No one knows what long term effects the vaccine has but more important, you are all cheering mandatory vaccination. The government forcing people to inject something into their bodies.
Quite extraordinary.
So many rules rewritten as well..
I want people to be vaccinated, but not criminalised for declining.
Mr. Seal, that's ok. People like different things.
The problem is that among the high-end-credentialled classes (think top universities, white collar professionals) a labour surplus is now impossible. World wide. This is because countries such as India and Chine (and many others) have begun their move to service industries. The rate at which such high end professionals are trained is below the requirements of the world economy and will be for the forceable future.
Yes, universities are expanding at a rate of knots, but there is a quality issue. Even if there was not, the rate of expansion is still slower than the rate at which demand for such professionals is expanding, world wide.
So to someone in the high end professional classes, open borders is associated with *growing wages*.
No. You cannot have a refund. The race has happened.
Looking at the racing industry, twenty years ago lads were local to the yard or from Ireland. Now it's probably a majority from the Indian subcontinent. I wonder if eventing, etc will go the same way
And I am free to call them irresponsible, selfish fools.
You have spread a falsehood about me on a public forum. I want an apology.
I guess as a fan, the bits that I find exciting don't happen very often, but when they do, they're *really* exciting. Bit like Test Cricket!
Even more shockingly, my bet failed.
There have been a few (including myself) who have advocated that vaccination should be mandatory for a limited sub-set of jobs. Medical and care home staff....
Mandatory vaccinations as a condition of employment is as old as vaccinations themselves. That's entirely reasonable just as the mandatory wearing of a uniform as a condition of employment.
George Washington in the revolutionary war required mandatory vaccinations in the military. https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/08/29/george-washington-smallpox-inoculation-army/
Being antivaxx or unvaccinated should be as socially stigmatised and viewed as irresponsible as drinking and driving. But unlike that it shouldn't be illegal.
I thought thats exactly why Biden was President after the "rigged election"
He deserves a hard time for that does he not?
same for cricket when it rains. hovercraft racing would be something to look at and might help dry the outfield.
If you want to advocate anti-vax by "nudge nudge, wink wink, some-of-my-best-friends..." then you will get stern words in return.
Sure you might not die, sure you might not lead to the death of others and sure you can die sober too, but that doesn't make it any less irresponsible.
And people falsely comparing vaccines to being struck by lightning or other bullshit using false figures should be called out for being false.
If there were anything to what contrarian had to say, he wouldn't need to be using easily disprovable false figures on a daily basis.
He should be given a PB medal.
And questioned lockdown.
We absolutely need such voices.
Plenty here have questioned the orthodoxy too. But they've done so honestly.
He questions it with untruths, bullshit and lies. No medal for that.