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Foreign Sec Raab now 19% second favourite in the next Cabinet exit betting – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The great majority of adults have been vaccinated.

    Four weeks working on a COVID ward makes stark the reality that the majority of our hospitalised COVID patients are unvaccinated and regret delaying. Some are very sick including young adults.

    Please don't delay your vaccine.


    https://twitter.com/CMO_England/status/1428679298093834244?s=20
  • Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: One in 80 people in England had COVID in latest week according to the Office for National Statistics.

    The ONS reports 698,100 people within the community in England had COVID-19 in the week ending 14 August

    Read more here: https://trib.al/lxQtlJb https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1428679174319972356/video/1

    1 in 80 just this week. This has been going for 80 weeks. At what point will EVERYONE either have had the bug, been vaxxed, or both? Unless reinfection is a real issue, or the vaccines seriously wane, surely this burns out soon?
    It has burned out.

    That's why people are banging on about Afghanistan.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: One in 80 people in England had COVID in latest week according to the Office for National Statistics.

    The ONS reports 698,100 people within the community in England had COVID-19 in the week ending 14 August

    Read more here: https://trib.al/lxQtlJb https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1428679174319972356/video/1

    1 in 80 just this week. This has been going for 80 weeks. At what point will EVERYONE either have had the bug, been vaxxed, or both? Unless reinfection is a real issue, or the vaccines seriously wane, surely this burns out soon?
    The ONS survey picks people up for multiple weeks - it's not a claimed number of new infections this week.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,446
    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,929
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Raab says he was too busy working on the Kabul airport evacuation to phone the Afghan foreign minister https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/raab-phone-call-afghanistan

    So, he shouldn't resign for being lazy, he should resign for being fucking useless...

    I’m still at a loss as to what this call would have achieved given the immediate collapse of the government there.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    The Taliban are primarily Deobandi not Wahhabi. Completely different.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,282
    maaarsh said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: One in 80 people in England had COVID in latest week according to the Office for National Statistics.

    The ONS reports 698,100 people within the community in England had COVID-19 in the week ending 14 August

    Read more here: https://trib.al/lxQtlJb https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1428679174319972356/video/1

    1 in 80 just this week. This has been going for 80 weeks. At what point will EVERYONE either have had the bug, been vaxxed, or both? Unless reinfection is a real issue, or the vaccines seriously wane, surely this burns out soon?
    The ONS survey picks people up for multiple weeks - it's not a claimed number of new infections this week.
    Ok, I’m confused now. This number is those who have tested positive for covid this week? Or, is it those who have tested positive for the last X weeks with some cut-off date because they’ve - presumably - either recovered or died and are not infectious? Or something else?!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Very interesting article by someone who has more experience in Afghanistan than most:
    https://www.sarahchayes.org/post/the-ides-of-august
    ...Within another couple of months, I was back, not as a reporter this time, but to try actually to do something. I stayed for a decade. I ran two non-profits in Kandahar, living in an ordinary house and speaking Pashtu, and eventually went to work for two commanders of the international troops, and then the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. (You can read about that time, and its lessons, in my first two books, The Punishment of Virtue and Thieves of State.)

    From that standpoint — speaking as an American, as an adoptive Kandahari, and as a former senior U.S. government official — here are the key factors I see in today’s climax of a two-decade long fiasco...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Utterly offtopic but from my visit to the Lakes yesterday ( a damp Thursday in August)

    1) I've never seen it so full
    2) a fair number of pubs were closed due to pings
    3) a lot of places are still short staffed but have stopped recruiting because the people don't exist (and once September arrives it's going to be easier to just close a few rooms off).

    People always exist at the right rate of pay. North sea oil rigs don't have a population bobbing up and down on a rowing boat waiting to be hired once the rig exists, but the pay attracts the people from all over the world. Nor was there a huge unemployed population in walking distance from Shoe Lane hoping for a financial services outfit called Goldman Sachs to turn up.
    Exactly. It's like when people ponder how conducive to poppy growing Afghan's climate and terroir is. Overlooking the fact that it is more the governance that is the deciding factor.

    As for your point it would mean inflationary pressures build which, according to many on here, is a good thing but I'm not so sure
    Opium poppies are notably easy to grow and even easier to harvest. A perfect crop. So it’s much more about the legal situation/lawlessness of any locale

    They grow particularly well in East Anglia and the Fens, and in the 16th-18th centuries there was a big fenland tradition of ‘poppy tea’ - to take away the agues and tediums of their watery lifestyle

    i thought harvesting the required ingredient from opium poppies was very labour intensive. of course if you just meant for pot pourri then it probably is quite simple.
    Time consuming. You gash the seed pod with a razor blade and come back again 24? hrs later to harvest one drop of gunk per pod.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Raab statement raises more questions than it answers. Why didn't he say any of this over the last two days, despite multiple opportunities? What exactly is this security of the airport given that has largely been carried out by US and Turkish troops?
    https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1428676158644699138/photo/1

    I'm confused what Dunt's complaint is here.

    If the security of the airport is being carried out by US and Turkish troops then wouldn't that be the Foreign Secretary's job to liaise with that?

    If it was being done by British troops then surely that'd be the Defence Secretary's job?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,282
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Utterly offtopic but from my visit to the Lakes yesterday ( a damp Thursday in August)

    1) I've never seen it so full
    2) a fair number of pubs were closed due to pings
    3) a lot of places are still short staffed but have stopped recruiting because the people don't exist (and once September arrives it's going to be easier to just close a few rooms off).

    People always exist at the right rate of pay. North sea oil rigs don't have a population bobbing up and down on a rowing boat waiting to be hired once the rig exists, but the pay attracts the people from all over the world. Nor was there a huge unemployed population in walking distance from Shoe Lane hoping for a financial services outfit called Goldman Sachs to turn up.
    Exactly. It's like when people ponder how conducive to poppy growing Afghan's climate and terroir is. Overlooking the fact that it is more the governance that is the deciding factor.

    As for your point it would mean inflationary pressures build which, according to many on here, is a good thing but I'm not so sure
    Opium poppies are notably easy to grow and even easier to harvest. A perfect crop. So it’s much more about the legal situation/lawlessness of any locale

    They grow particularly well in East Anglia and the Fens, and in the 16th-18th centuries there was a big fenland tradition of ‘poppy tea’ - to take away the agues and tediums of their watery lifestyle

    i thought harvesting the required ingredient from opium poppies was very labour intensive. of course if you just meant for pot pourri then it probably is quite simple.
    Time consuming. You gash the seed pod with a razor blade and come back again 24? hrs later to harvest one drop of gunk per pod.
    Compared to something like rice farming it’s blissfully easy and relaxed. You can see why poor farmers like it
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    We, as in the UK buy an insignificant 0.6% of their oil exports. Western Europe collectively buys about 12% of their oil exports.

    Over 60% goes to Japan, China, S Korea and India.

    Not sure how we, however defined, are supposed to stop that trade without a world war developing.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Raab says he was too busy working on the Kabul airport evacuation to phone the Afghan foreign minister https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/raab-phone-call-afghanistan

    So, he shouldn't resign for being lazy, he should resign for being fucking useless...

    I’m still at a loss as to what this call would have achieved given the immediate collapse of the government there.
    I haven't been paying attention but is the primary scandal really that a man with absolutely no power or influence on the situation didn't speak to another man with no power or influence?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,446
    Dura_Ace said:

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    The Taliban are primarily Deobandi not Wahhabi. Completely different.
    Is it?

    "Since the late 1970s, the movement is said to have been influenced by Wahhabism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[3] From the early 1980s to the early 2000s some Deobandis were heavily funded by Saudi Arabia."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    edited August 2021
    Leon said:

    maaarsh said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: One in 80 people in England had COVID in latest week according to the Office for National Statistics.

    The ONS reports 698,100 people within the community in England had COVID-19 in the week ending 14 August

    Read more here: https://trib.al/lxQtlJb https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1428679174319972356/video/1

    1 in 80 just this week. This has been going for 80 weeks. At what point will EVERYONE either have had the bug, been vaxxed, or both? Unless reinfection is a real issue, or the vaccines seriously wane, surely this burns out soon?
    The ONS survey picks people up for multiple weeks - it's not a claimed number of new infections this week.
    Ok, I’m confused now. This number is those who have tested positive for covid this week? Or, is it those who have tested positive for the last X weeks with some cut-off date because they’ve - presumably - either recovered or died and are not infectious? Or something else?!
    There's a set group of people being tested by the ONS survey every week. And they still get tested next week even if they're positive this week. The survey just tries to say how many people would test positive right now, but many of those will have actually caught it 2 weeks ago and sometimes more, so the figure released is typically a fair bit higher than the actual number estimated to have caight it in the last week (they used to separately release a new infections estimate but have now stopped).
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,446

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    We, as in the UK buy an insignificant 0.6% of their oil exports. Western Europe collectively buys about 12% of their oil exports.

    Over 60% goes to Japan, China, S Korea and India.

    Not sure how we, however defined, are supposed to stop that trade without a world war developing.
    Interesting, I thought it was mainly the yanks.

    The point is that as the world decarbonises there goes Saudis business model. No-one will give a shit anymore.

    Of course, in addition to not funding anything it might simply become a civil war ridden hell-hole (like Yemen) or bought up by China, but it also might not have much money to export or propagate extreme Islamism outwith its borders.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,004
    edited August 2021

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    We, as in the UK buy an insignificant 0.6% of their oil exports. Western Europe collectively buys about 12% of their oil exports.

    Over 60% goes to Japan, China, S Korea and India.

    Not sure how we, however defined, are supposed to stop that trade without a world war developing.
    Interesting, I thought it was mainly the yanks.

    The point is that as the world decarbonises there goes Saudis business model. No-one will give a shit anymore.

    Of course, in addition to not funding anything it might simply become a civil war ridden hell-hole (like Yemen) or bought up by China, but it also might not have much money to export or propagate extreme Islamism outwith its borders.
    US weaned themselves off Saudi oil a number of years ago. For the oil they need, their own via fracking has been revolutionary, there is also still traditional oil and via tar sands of Canada.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161

    Executioners of Geronimo, the condemned alpaca, may arrive to find it hidden among four identical animals in a field

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1428422171664306177?s=20

    Who presumably may have become infected and also need to be culled?

    That sounds like the sort of activity for which there could be an obscure criminal offence.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Nigelb said:

    Very interesting article by someone who has more experience in Afghanistan than most:
    https://www.sarahchayes.org/post/the-ides-of-august
    ...Within another couple of months, I was back, not as a reporter this time, but to try actually to do something. I stayed for a decade. I ran two non-profits in Kandahar, living in an ordinary house and speaking Pashtu, and eventually went to work for two commanders of the international troops, and then the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. (You can read about that time, and its lessons, in my first two books, The Punishment of Virtue and Thieves of State.)

    From that standpoint — speaking as an American, as an adoptive Kandahari, and as a former senior U.S. government official — here are the key factors I see in today’s climax of a two-decade long fiasco...

    Well worth reading - thx:

    I hold U.S. civilian leadership, across four administrations, largely responsible for today’s outcome. Military commanders certainly participated in the self-delusion. I can and did find fault with generals I worked for or observed. But the U.S. military is subject to civilian control. And the two primary problems identified above — corruption and Pakistan — are civilian issues. They are not problems men and women in uniform can solve. But faced with calls to do so, no top civilian decision-maker was willing to take either of these problems on. The political risk, for them, was too high.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    MattW said:

    Executioners of Geronimo, the condemned alpaca, may arrive to find it hidden among four identical animals in a field

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1428422171664306177?s=20

    Who presumably may have become infected and also need to be culled?

    That sounds like the sort of activity for which there could be an obscure criminal offence.
    If they really have anonomysed live stock which are supposed to be subject to tracing then they sound ripe for having any licenses removed and all stock safely disposed of.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Cases moving north in Wales today. England seems to be resisting the sharply upward trend of the other nations.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,929
    MattW said:

    Executioners of Geronimo, the condemned alpaca, may arrive to find it hidden among four identical animals in a field

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1428422171664306177?s=20

    Who presumably may have become infected and also need to be culled?

    That sounds like the sort of activity for which there could be an obscure criminal offence.
    That has to be the stupidest plan I have heard all week. They’ll all have to be euthanised.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    edited August 2021

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    We, as in the UK buy an insignificant 0.6% of their oil exports. Western Europe collectively buys about 12% of their oil exports.

    Over 60% goes to Japan, China, S Korea and India.

    Not sure how we, however defined, are supposed to stop that trade without a world war developing.
    Interesting, I thought it was mainly the yanks.

    The point is that as the world decarbonises there goes Saudis business model. No-one will give a shit anymore.

    Of course, in addition to not funding anything it might simply become a civil war ridden hell-hole (like Yemen) or bought up by China, but it also might not have much money to export or propagate extreme Islamism outwith its borders.
    US was a net exporter of petroleum in 2020 (first time in decades). What they are importing is mostly from Canada.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,633
    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Executioners of Geronimo, the condemned alpaca, may arrive to find it hidden among four identical animals in a field

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1428422171664306177?s=20

    Who presumably may have become infected and also need to be culled?

    That sounds like the sort of activity for which there could be an obscure criminal offence.
    That has to be the stupidest plan I have heard all week. They’ll all have to be euthanised.
    Perhaps the idea is that they'll all have to be tested, and what if they all test negative?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Dura_Ace said:

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    The Taliban are primarily Deobandi not Wahhabi. Completely different.
    Is it?

    "Since the late 1970s, the movement is said to have been influenced by Wahhabism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[3] From the early 1980s to the early 2000s some Deobandis were heavily funded by Saudi Arabia."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi
    I can understand your confusion if your primary source for study of the Islam is Wiki-fucking-pedia.

    Deobandi are from the Hanafi madhhab of the Sunni fiqh. Wahhabi are from the Hanbali madhhab.

    Apart from the doctrinal differences Wahhabi is a top down state sponsored movement fuelled by Saudi petro dollars. Deobandi has a more communitarian movement based on local sponsors and a network of madrassas.

    The UK is probably going to be a majority muslim country in your lifespan so you really need to get on top of this shit. Disappointing.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    maaarsh said:

    MattW said:

    Executioners of Geronimo, the condemned alpaca, may arrive to find it hidden among four identical animals in a field

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1428422171664306177?s=20

    Who presumably may have become infected and also need to be culled?

    That sounds like the sort of activity for which there could be an obscure criminal offence.
    If they really have anonomysed live stock which are supposed to be subject to tracing then they sound ripe for having any licenses removed and all stock safely disposed of.
    I think they are all eartagged, microchipped and DNAed, so good luck with the anonymization.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385

    Scott_xP said:

    Raab statement raises more questions than it answers. Why didn't he say any of this over the last two days, despite multiple opportunities? What exactly is this security of the airport given that has largely been carried out by US and Turkish troops?
    https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1428676158644699138/photo/1

    I'm confused what Dunt's complaint is here.

    If the security of the airport is being carried out by US and Turkish troops then wouldn't that be the Foreign Secretary's job to liaise with that?

    If it was being done by British troops then surely that'd be the Defence Secretary's job?
    I’ve long since blocked him. He’s verging on the deranged. He’d be complaining if he had nothing to complain about.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Absolutely no change in the poll then

    And on would you support an increase in energy bills to fund more renewable energy and lower carbon emissions

    Support 30%

    Oppose 52%

    D/K 18%
    Given the news is regularly full of stuff about the evils of climate change ad it regularly crops up on magazine shows and breakfast TV as an issue I am amazed this is not the other way.
    Shows there is little mileage in pushing a green agenda if it means higher energy bills, carbon taxes, higher fuel bills and congestion charge zones outside of wealthy metropolitan areas.

    We do still new to continue the push to renewables however and we are doing relatively well on that
    Some of us are.

    'Scotland has narrowly missed a target to generate the equivalent of 100% of its electricity demand from renewables in 2020. New figures reveal it reached 97.4% from renewable sources.'

    'Renewables provided a record 43% of the UK’s electricity last year, up from 37% in 2019, according to UK Government statistics.'
    Only 29% of global energy comes from renewables
    https://www.iea.org/reports/global-energy-review-2021/renewables

    Scotland is part of the UK and contributes to that above average UK figure
    And stiffed for the privilege, win-win, or lose-lose as it's known north of Carlisle.


    That’ll be one of those “Union Dividends”.
    You do know that subsamples are a load of crap....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    IshmaelZ said:

    maaarsh said:

    MattW said:

    Executioners of Geronimo, the condemned alpaca, may arrive to find it hidden among four identical animals in a field

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1428422171664306177?s=20

    Who presumably may have become infected and also need to be culled?

    That sounds like the sort of activity for which there could be an obscure criminal offence.
    If they really have anonomysed live stock which are supposed to be subject to tracing then they sound ripe for having any licenses removed and all stock safely disposed of.
    I think they are all eartagged, microchipped and DNAed, so good luck with the anonymization.
    Again has anyone read the article ?

    The owner won't seriously be considering it for these reasons. It's a non starter.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Raab says he was too busy working on the Kabul airport evacuation to phone the Afghan foreign minister https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/raab-phone-call-afghanistan

    So, he shouldn't resign for being lazy, he should resign for being fucking useless...

    I’m still at a loss as to what this call would have achieved given the immediate collapse of the government there.
    A political scalp for his numerous enemies in the Tory party and out of it.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Absolutely no change in the poll then

    And on would you support an increase in energy bills to fund more renewable energy and lower carbon emissions

    Support 30%

    Oppose 52%

    D/K 18%
    Given the news is regularly full of stuff about the evils of climate change ad it regularly crops up on magazine shows and breakfast TV as an issue I am amazed this is not the other way.
    Shows there is little mileage in pushing a green agenda if it means higher energy bills, carbon taxes, higher fuel bills and congestion charge zones outside of wealthy metropolitan areas.

    We do still new to continue the push to renewables however and we are doing relatively well on that
    Some of us are.

    'Scotland has narrowly missed a target to generate the equivalent of 100% of its electricity demand from renewables in 2020. New figures reveal it reached 97.4% from renewable sources.'

    'Renewables provided a record 43% of the UK’s electricity last year, up from 37% in 2019, according to UK Government statistics.'
    Only 29% of global energy comes from renewables
    https://www.iea.org/reports/global-energy-review-2021/renewables

    Scotland is part of the UK and contributes to that above average UK figure
    And stiffed for the privilege, win-win, or lose-lose as it's known north of Carlisle.


    That’ll be one of those “Union Dividends”.
    You do know that subsamples are a load of crap....
    That doesn’t stop SD

    Every day, round and round we go
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    maaarsh said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Raab says he was too busy working on the Kabul airport evacuation to phone the Afghan foreign minister https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/raab-phone-call-afghanistan

    So, he shouldn't resign for being lazy, he should resign for being fucking useless...

    I’m still at a loss as to what this call would have achieved given the immediate collapse of the government there.
    I haven't been paying attention but is the primary scandal really that a man with absolutely no power or influence on the situation didn't speak to another man with no power or influence?
    Well, "burger flipper declines to flip burgers" wouldn't make the headlines either, but you'd still expect the burger flipper to lose his job. If you don't want to be asked to do low status shit, don't take the Foreign Secretary job offer.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Some Tory support for Raab now - David Davis and Roger Gale come out to defend him. Follows his own explanation earlier.

    So the push-back operation in action.

    https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/1428686369145200646
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    maaarsh said:

    Plans for a huge post-Brexit lorry park at Guston on the outskirts of Dover have been radically scaled back. The site will have just 96 parking spaces for trucks, rather than 1,200.

    https://twitter.com/SimonJonesNews/status/1428669442867740677?s=20

    Presumably because Brexit has very nearly ended all trade - couldn't possibly be a lack of promised border chaos...
    Isn't it just that the major new processing site is a different place 30km away?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Dura_Ace said:

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    The Taliban are primarily Deobandi not Wahhabi. Completely different.
    Indeed. Nobody would want to eat Deobandi on their sushi.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    edited August 2021

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: One in 80 people in England had COVID in latest week according to the Office for National Statistics.

    The ONS reports 698,100 people within the community in England had COVID-19 in the week ending 14 August

    Read more here: https://trib.al/lxQtlJb https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1428679174319972356/video/1

    1 in 80 just this week. This has been going for 80 weeks. At what point will EVERYONE either have had the bug, been vaxxed, or both? Unless reinfection is a real issue, or the vaccines seriously wane, surely this burns out soon?
    It has burned out.

    That's why people are banging on about Afghanistan.
    I wish someone could tell the 135 folk clogging up our wards including 21 on ICU that is burned out and that they can go home and stop wasting out time.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    Some Tory support for Raab now - David Davis and Roger Gale come out to defend him. Follows his own explanation earlier.

    So the push-back operation in action.

    https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/1428686369145200646

    Raab is a closer ally of Davis than he is of Boris so no surprise there. Raab used to be Davis' chief of staff.

    Gale was a backer of Davis in 2001 and 2005 but loathes Boris and backed Hunt in 2019 so this is all internal Tory politics
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,961
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    The Taliban are primarily Deobandi not Wahhabi. Completely different.
    Is it?

    "Since the late 1970s, the movement is said to have been influenced by Wahhabism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[3] From the early 1980s to the early 2000s some Deobandis were heavily funded by Saudi Arabia."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi
    I can understand your confusion if your primary source for study of the Islam is Wiki-fucking-pedia.

    Deobandi are from the Hanafi madhhab of the Sunni fiqh. Wahhabi are from the Hanbali madhhab.

    Apart from the doctrinal differences Wahhabi is a top down state sponsored movement fuelled by Saudi petro dollars. Deobandi has a more communitarian movement based on local sponsors and a network of madrassas.

    The UK is probably going to be a majority muslim country in your lifespan so you really need to get on top of this shit. Disappointing.
    Nawty.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    This'll fix it:

    My statement responding to the inaccurate media reporting over recent days.


    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1428672668983873545?s=20

    Never stopped Scott n paste from posting them
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    The Taliban are primarily Deobandi not Wahhabi. Completely different.
    Is it?

    "Since the late 1970s, the movement is said to have been influenced by Wahhabism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[3] From the early 1980s to the early 2000s some Deobandis were heavily funded by Saudi Arabia."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi
    I can understand your confusion if your primary source for study of the Islam is Wiki-fucking-pedia.

    Deobandi are from the Hanafi madhhab of the Sunni fiqh. Wahhabi are from the Hanbali madhhab.

    Apart from the doctrinal differences Wahhabi is a top down state sponsored movement fuelled by Saudi petro dollars. Deobandi has a more communitarian movement based on local sponsors and a network of madrassas.

    The UK is probably going to be a majority muslim country in your lifespan so you really need to get on top of this shit. Disappointing.
    2.7% 2001 census
    4.4% 2011 census
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: One in 80 people in England had COVID in latest week according to the Office for National Statistics.

    The ONS reports 698,100 people within the community in England had COVID-19 in the week ending 14 August

    Read more here: https://trib.al/lxQtlJb https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1428679174319972356/video/1

    1 in 80 just this week. This has been going for 80 weeks. At what point will EVERYONE either have had the bug, been vaxxed, or both? Unless reinfection is a real issue, or the vaccines seriously wane, surely this burns out soon?
    It has burned out.

    That's why people are banging on about Afghanistan.
    I wish someone could tell the 135 folk clogging up our wards including 21 on ICU that is burned out and that they can go home and stop wasting out time.
    What's the vaxxed/unvaxxed split ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2021
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    The Taliban are primarily Deobandi not Wahhabi. Completely different.
    Is it?

    "Since the late 1970s, the movement is said to have been influenced by Wahhabism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[3] From the early 1980s to the early 2000s some Deobandis were heavily funded by Saudi Arabia."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi
    I can understand your confusion if your primary source for study of the Islam is Wiki-fucking-pedia.

    Deobandi are from the Hanafi madhhab of the Sunni fiqh. Wahhabi are from the Hanbali madhhab.

    Apart from the doctrinal differences Wahhabi is a top down state sponsored movement fuelled by Saudi petro dollars. Deobandi has a more communitarian movement based on local sponsors and a network of madrassas.

    The UK is probably going to be a majority muslim country in your lifespan so you really need to get on top of this shit. Disappointing.
    In which case Scotland would be a majority Muslim country too, so you could have independence but maybe under Sharia Law.

    However in reality that is very unrealistic, though by 2100 we may well be non white majority, the only nations likely still majority white by then will be Russia and Eastern Europe
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    I hadn't realised that David Bannerman is a master of sly irony:

    https://twitter.com/DCBMEP/status/1428661764137365512
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Pulpstar said:



    2.7% 2001 census
    4.4% 2011 census

    Casino's going to live to 180 due to his red meat based diet.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,696
    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:



    2.7% 2001 census
    4.4% 2011 census

    Casino's going to live to 180 due to his red meat based diet.
    Good news for statues everywhere.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    I hadn't realised that David Bannerman is a master of sly irony:

    https://twitter.com/DCBMEP/status/1428661764137365512

    I remember campaigning for David as a Tory student in Warwick and Leamington in 2001, great character
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    edited August 2021
    @BritainElects
    ·
    Oakham South (Rutland) by-election result:

    LDEM: 67.8% (+9.8)
    CON: 32.2% (-9.8)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.

    *Seat is multi-member. Prev Con seat was second placed candidate.

    @BritainElects


    Primrose (Ribble Valley) by-election result:

    LDEM: 43.9% (-16.5)
    CON: 26.1% (+10.4)
    LAB: 23.9% (-0.1)
    GRN: 6.1% (+6.1)

    Liberal Democrat HOLD.

    @BritainElects
    ·

    Littlemoor (Ribble Valley) by-election result:

    LDEM: 49.0% (-8.9)
    CON: 37.7% (+14.1)
    LAB: 10.3% (-8.2)
    GRN: 3.0% (+3.0)

    Liberal Democrat HOLD.


    @BritainElects
    ·

    East Wolds and Coastal (East Riding of Yorkshire) by-election result:

    CON: 54.0% (-2.3)
    LAB: 20.3% (+7.2)
    YORK: 15.7% (+15.7)
    GRN: 6.4% (-24.2)
    LDEM: 3.6% (+3.6)

    Conservative HOLD.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862
    edited August 2021
    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:



    2.7% 2001 census
    4.4% 2011 census

    Casino's going to live to 180 due to his red meat based diet.
    Scientists raise doubts over Leon’s ‘carbon-neutral' burgers
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Raab statement raises more questions than it answers. Why didn't he say any of this over the last two days, despite multiple opportunities? What exactly is this security of the airport given that has largely been carried out by US and Turkish troops?
    https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1428676158644699138/photo/1

    I'm confused what Dunt's complaint is here.

    If the security of the airport is being carried out by US and Turkish troops then wouldn't that be the Foreign Secretary's job to liaise with that?

    If it was being done by British troops then surely that'd be the Defence Secretary's job?
    I’ve long since blocked him. He’s verging on the deranged. He’d be complaining if he had nothing to complain about.
    Of course he's deranged - why do you think Scott is such a fan?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,446
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    The Taliban are primarily Deobandi not Wahhabi. Completely different.
    Is it?

    "Since the late 1970s, the movement is said to have been influenced by Wahhabism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[3] From the early 1980s to the early 2000s some Deobandis were heavily funded by Saudi Arabia."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi
    I can understand your confusion if your primary source for study of the Islam is Wiki-fucking-pedia.

    Deobandi are from the Hanafi madhhab of the Sunni fiqh. Wahhabi are from the Hanbali madhhab.

    Apart from the doctrinal differences Wahhabi is a top down state sponsored movement fuelled by Saudi petro dollars. Deobandi has a more communitarian movement based on local sponsors and a network of madrassas.

    The UK is probably going to be a majority muslim country in your lifespan so you really need to get on top of this shit. Disappointing.
    Ah, sorry - I forgot your real point which is that you wanted to take the opportunity to show that you're superior to others and also that you're a bit f**king nuts.

    Thanks.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Pulpstar said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    The Taliban are primarily Deobandi not Wahhabi. Completely different.
    Is it?

    "Since the late 1970s, the movement is said to have been influenced by Wahhabism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[3] From the early 1980s to the early 2000s some Deobandis were heavily funded by Saudi Arabia."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi
    I can understand your confusion if your primary source for study of the Islam is Wiki-fucking-pedia.

    Deobandi are from the Hanafi madhhab of the Sunni fiqh. Wahhabi are from the Hanbali madhhab.

    Apart from the doctrinal differences Wahhabi is a top down state sponsored movement fuelled by Saudi petro dollars. Deobandi has a more communitarian movement based on local sponsors and a network of madrassas.

    The UK is probably going to be a majority muslim country in your lifespan so you really need to get on top of this shit. Disappointing.
    2.7% 2001 census
    4.4% 2011 census
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: One in 80 people in England had COVID in latest week according to the Office for National Statistics.

    The ONS reports 698,100 people within the community in England had COVID-19 in the week ending 14 August

    Read more here: https://trib.al/lxQtlJb https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1428679174319972356/video/1

    1 in 80 just this week. This has been going for 80 weeks. At what point will EVERYONE either have had the bug, been vaxxed, or both? Unless reinfection is a real issue, or the vaccines seriously wane, surely this burns out soon?
    It has burned out.

    That's why people are banging on about Afghanistan.
    I wish someone could tell the 135 folk clogging up our wards including 21 on ICU that is burned out and that they can go home and stop wasting out time.
    What's the vaxxed/unvaxxed split ?
    Pretty much 50/50 on the wards 95% unvaxxed on ICU. Even the vaxxed elderly (so 2nd dose >6/12 ago) don't seem to get it too badly, though still needing admission. I think the evidence (so far!) of vaccine fade is pretty minimal, the vaxxed admissions are in all age groups.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    If anyone is having trouble viewing Twitter due to their annoying pop-ups, can I suggest following this advice:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/p5lgcv/twitter_new_filters_needed_annoying_pop/h99j3it/
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,446
    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:



    2.7% 2001 census
    4.4% 2011 census

    Casino's going to live to 180 due to his red meat based diet.
    And Dura Ace is going to die at 60 due to driving at 180.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:



    2.7% 2001 census
    4.4% 2011 census

    Casino's going to live to 180 due to his red meat based diet.
    He can adjust to Halal, I am sure!

  • @BritainElects
    ·

    Mid Formartine (Aberdeenshire) by-election result, first preferences:

    CON: 45.7% (+11.1)
    SNP: 37.2% (+11.4)
    LDEM: 12.7% (+3.3)
    GRN: 4.4% (+4.4)

    Seat change:
    Conservative GAIN from SNP.

    No Ind(s) (-20,6, -4.8) and Lab (-4.7) as prev.


    @BritainElects


    Sandwich (Dover) by-election result:

    CON: 51.6% (+37.2)
    LDEM: 48.4% (+14.1)

    Conservative HOLD.


    No Ind (-24.8), Lab (-13.6), Grn (-12.8) as prev.



    @BritainElects

    Downs North (Ashford) by-election result:

    GRN: 51.8% (+20.8)
    CON: 45.4% (+7.9)
    LDEM: 2.8% (-8.6)

    Green GAIN from Conservative.

    No Ashford Ind (-10.9) as prev.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:



    2.7% 2001 census
    4.4% 2011 census

    Casino's going to live to 180 due to his red meat based diet.
    He can adjust to Halal, I am sure!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Nigelb said:

    Very interesting article by someone who has more experience in Afghanistan than most:
    https://www.sarahchayes.org/post/the-ides-of-august
    ...Within another couple of months, I was back, not as a reporter this time, but to try actually to do something. I stayed for a decade. I ran two non-profits in Kandahar, living in an ordinary house and speaking Pashtu, and eventually went to work for two commanders of the international troops, and then the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. (You can read about that time, and its lessons, in my first two books, The Punishment of Virtue and Thieves of State.)

    From that standpoint — speaking as an American, as an adoptive Kandahari, and as a former senior U.S. government official — here are the key factors I see in today’s climax of a two-decade long fiasco...

    Well worth reading - thx:

    I hold U.S. civilian leadership, across four administrations, largely responsible for today’s outcome. Military commanders certainly participated in the self-delusion. I can and did find fault with generals I worked for or observed. But the U.S. military is subject to civilian control. And the two primary problems identified above — corruption and Pakistan — are civilian issues. They are not problems men and women in uniform can solve. But faced with calls to do so, no top civilian decision-maker was willing to take either of these problems on. The political risk, for them, was too high.
    And possibly the most shocking:

    The Taliban were a strategic project of the Pakistani military intelligence agency, the ISI. It even conducted market surveys in the villages around Kandahar, to test the label and the messaging. “Taliban” worked well. The image evoked was of the young students who apprenticed themselves to village religious leaders. They were known as sober, studious, and gentle. These Taliban, according to the ISI messaging, had no interest in government. They just wanted to get the militiamen who infested the city to stop extorting people at every turn in the road.


    Both label and message were lies.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Oakham South (Rutland County Council) by-election:

    LDM: 67.8% (+32.5)
    CON: 32.2% (-32.5)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    edited August 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    The Taliban are primarily Deobandi not Wahhabi. Completely different.
    Is it?

    "Since the late 1970s, the movement is said to have been influenced by Wahhabism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[3] From the early 1980s to the early 2000s some Deobandis were heavily funded by Saudi Arabia."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi
    I can understand your confusion if your primary source for study of the Islam is Wiki-fucking-pedia.

    Deobandi are from the Hanafi madhhab of the Sunni fiqh. Wahhabi are from the Hanbali madhhab.

    Apart from the doctrinal differences Wahhabi is a top down state sponsored movement fuelled by Saudi petro dollars. Deobandi has a more communitarian movement based on local sponsors and a network of madrassas.

    The UK is probably going to be a majority muslim country in your lifespan so you really need to get on top of this shit. Disappointing.
    In which case Scotland would be a majority Muslim country too, so you could have independence but maybe under Sharia Law.

    However in reality that is very unrealistic, though by 2100 we may well be non white majority, the only nations likely still majority white by then will be Russia and Eastern Europe
    I observe that the UK is currently a majority English country, and yet Scotland is not a majority English country. A UK majority does not equal a Scotland majority (see also Westminster MPs).

    I also observe that I am unfamiliar with the country "Eastern Europe".

    I further observe that all these Britain population X by Y statements are based on crude projections of current birth rates etc and fail to take account of the fact that birth rates, in all populations, tend to drop over time. Project from early 20th century British birth rates and see where that would put the population now. Or look at currnet population changes for some Eastern European countries - on crude (silly) projections they won't be majority white, there will be no one there at all!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,446
    Pulpstar said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    The Taliban are primarily Deobandi not Wahhabi. Completely different.
    Is it?

    "Since the late 1970s, the movement is said to have been influenced by Wahhabism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[3] From the early 1980s to the early 2000s some Deobandis were heavily funded by Saudi Arabia."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi
    I can understand your confusion if your primary source for study of the Islam is Wiki-fucking-pedia.

    Deobandi are from the Hanafi madhhab of the Sunni fiqh. Wahhabi are from the Hanbali madhhab.

    Apart from the doctrinal differences Wahhabi is a top down state sponsored movement fuelled by Saudi petro dollars. Deobandi has a more communitarian movement based on local sponsors and a network of madrassas.

    The UK is probably going to be a majority muslim country in your lifespan so you really need to get on top of this shit. Disappointing.
    2.7% 2001 census
    4.4% 2011 census
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: One in 80 people in England had COVID in latest week according to the Office for National Statistics.

    The ONS reports 698,100 people within the community in England had COVID-19 in the week ending 14 August

    Read more here: https://trib.al/lxQtlJb https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1428679174319972356/video/1

    1 in 80 just this week. This has been going for 80 weeks. At what point will EVERYONE either have had the bug, been vaxxed, or both? Unless reinfection is a real issue, or the vaccines seriously wane, surely this burns out soon?
    It has burned out.

    That's why people are banging on about Afghanistan.
    I wish someone could tell the 135 folk clogging up our wards including 21 on ICU that is burned out and that they can go home and stop wasting out time.
    What's the vaxxed/unvaxxed split ?
    Not for the first time, Dura Ace is talking bollocks.

    The UK will become majority mixed race, but that's about 2200 to 2220 and quite a different point (Muslims will be nothing like a majority).
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679

    I hadn't realised that David Bannerman is a master of sly irony:

    https://twitter.com/DCBMEP/status/1428661764137365512

    I hang my head.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    Pulpstar said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    The Taliban are primarily Deobandi not Wahhabi. Completely different.
    Is it?

    "Since the late 1970s, the movement is said to have been influenced by Wahhabism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[3] From the early 1980s to the early 2000s some Deobandis were heavily funded by Saudi Arabia."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi
    I can understand your confusion if your primary source for study of the Islam is Wiki-fucking-pedia.

    Deobandi are from the Hanafi madhhab of the Sunni fiqh. Wahhabi are from the Hanbali madhhab.

    Apart from the doctrinal differences Wahhabi is a top down state sponsored movement fuelled by Saudi petro dollars. Deobandi has a more communitarian movement based on local sponsors and a network of madrassas.

    The UK is probably going to be a majority muslim country in your lifespan so you really need to get on top of this shit. Disappointing.
    2.7% 2001 census
    4.4% 2011 census
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: One in 80 people in England had COVID in latest week according to the Office for National Statistics.

    The ONS reports 698,100 people within the community in England had COVID-19 in the week ending 14 August

    Read more here: https://trib.al/lxQtlJb https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1428679174319972356/video/1

    1 in 80 just this week. This has been going for 80 weeks. At what point will EVERYONE either have had the bug, been vaxxed, or both? Unless reinfection is a real issue, or the vaccines seriously wane, surely this burns out soon?
    It has burned out.

    That's why people are banging on about Afghanistan.
    I wish someone could tell the 135 folk clogging up our wards including 21 on ICU that is burned out and that they can go home and stop wasting out time.
    What's the vaxxed/unvaxxed split ?
    As is well known to anyone who follows the news, roughly 50% of severe illness and death is among the fully vaccinated.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    IshmaelZ said:

    maaarsh said:

    MattW said:

    Executioners of Geronimo, the condemned alpaca, may arrive to find it hidden among four identical animals in a field

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1428422171664306177?s=20

    Who presumably may have become infected and also need to be culled?

    That sounds like the sort of activity for which there could be an obscure criminal offence.
    If they really have anonomysed live stock which are supposed to be subject to tracing then they sound ripe for having any licenses removed and all stock safely disposed of.
    I think they are all eartagged, microchipped and DNAed, so good luck with the anonymization.
    Not sure that that is the case for animals not in the food chain.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    This isn't a defence from Dominic Raab - it's a shameful admission of his own failure to act.

    It is unbelievable that even now the Foreign Secretary is wasting time making excuses when a catastrophe is still unfolding in front of our eyes.
    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1428672668983873545

    https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1428692554850177033
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,929
    edited August 2021
    tlg86 said:

    If anyone is having trouble viewing Twitter due to their annoying pop-ups, can I suggest following this advice:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/p5lgcv/twitter_new_filters_needed_annoying_pop/h99j3it/

    Disabling cookies on Twitter worked for me too. Probably not helpful if you want to be logged in though!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2021
    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    The Taliban are primarily Deobandi not Wahhabi. Completely different.
    Is it?

    "Since the late 1970s, the movement is said to have been influenced by Wahhabism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[3] From the early 1980s to the early 2000s some Deobandis were heavily funded by Saudi Arabia."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi
    I can understand your confusion if your primary source for study of the Islam is Wiki-fucking-pedia.

    Deobandi are from the Hanafi madhhab of the Sunni fiqh. Wahhabi are from the Hanbali madhhab.

    Apart from the doctrinal differences Wahhabi is a top down state sponsored movement fuelled by Saudi petro dollars. Deobandi has a more communitarian movement based on local sponsors and a network of madrassas.

    The UK is probably going to be a majority muslim country in your lifespan so you really need to get on top of this shit. Disappointing.
    In which case Scotland would be a majority Muslim country too, so you could have independence but maybe under Sharia Law.

    However in reality that is very unrealistic, though by 2100 we may well be non white majority, the only nations likely still majority white by then will be Russia and Eastern Europe
    I observe that the UK is currently a majority English country, and yet Scotland is not a majority English country. A UK majority does not equal a Scotland majority (see also Westminster MPs).

    I also observe that I am unfamiliar with the country "Eastern Europe".

    I further observe that all these Britain population X by Y statements are based on crude projections of current birth rates etc and fail to take account of the fact that birth rates, in all populations, tend to drop over time. Project from early 20th century British birth rates and see where that would put the population now. Or look at currnet population changes for some Eastern European countries - on crude (silly) projections they won't be majority white, there will be no one there at all!
    The only sovereign nation in GB is the UK.

    I did not say Eastern Europe was a country just the only nations likely still majority white in 2100 will be there.

    The projections are based on immigration and birth rates, Eastern Europe has barely any immigration, certainly compared to Western Europe or the USA, Canada, Australia and NZ.

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    This site is going to be absolutely lit the weekend Taiwan falls.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Canada and the UK have announced that they will take in thousands of Afghan refugees. The EU, on the other hand, is blocking - and even wants to close the most important escape route completely, as SPIEGEL research shows.

    https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/afghanistan-wie-sich-europa-gegen-fluechtlinge-abschotten-will-a-227ec312-967b-4849-9a30-244f0a25e4a3
  • Scott_xP said:

    This isn't a defence from Dominic Raab - it's a shameful admission of his own failure to act.

    It is unbelievable that even now the Foreign Secretary is wasting time making excuses when a catastrophe is still unfolding in front of our eyes.
    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1428672668983873545

    https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1428692554850177033

    No wonder labour are labouring in the polls
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Are Labour making so much of Afghanistan, as if they’d have done anything differently, to deflect from their ‘let’s hope there are one hundred thousand cases of Covid per day’ strategy of last month?

    Cases are going up mind you, almost time for a summer of NHS chaos if they’re lucky

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Dura_Ace said:

    This site is going to be absolutely lit the weekend Taiwan falls.

    I think they'll hold out a bit longer than that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Dura_Ace said:

    This site is going to be absolutely lit the weekend Taiwan falls.

    If it falls, which relies on Taiwan not having got its own nuclear weapons beforehand
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Britain published details on Friday of sanctions against seven individuals it said were Russian intelligence operatives suspected of involvement in the poisoning of Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-sanctions-seven-russian-intelligence-agents-over-navalny-poisoning-2021-08-20/
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    @BritainElects
    ·
    Oakham South (Rutland) by-election result:

    LDEM: 67.8% (+9.8)
    CON: 32.2% (-9.8)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.

    *Seat is multi-member. Prev Con seat was second placed candidate.

    @BritainElects


    Primrose (Ribble Valley) by-election result:

    LDEM: 43.9% (-16.5)
    CON: 26.1% (+10.4)
    LAB: 23.9% (-0.1)
    GRN: 6.1% (+6.1)

    Liberal Democrat HOLD.

    @BritainElects
    ·

    Littlemoor (Ribble Valley) by-election result:

    LDEM: 49.0% (-8.9)
    CON: 37.7% (+14.1)
    LAB: 10.3% (-8.2)
    GRN: 3.0% (+3.0)

    Liberal Democrat HOLD.


    @BritainElects
    ·

    East Wolds and Coastal (East Riding of Yorkshire) by-election result:

    CON: 54.0% (-2.3)
    LAB: 20.3% (+7.2)
    YORK: 15.7% (+15.7)
    GRN: 6.4% (-24.2)
    LDEM: 3.6% (+3.6)

    Conservative HOLD.

    what did the Yorkshire party promise the green voters? must be good.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    The Taliban are primarily Deobandi not Wahhabi. Completely different.
    Is it?

    "Since the late 1970s, the movement is said to have been influenced by Wahhabism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[3] From the early 1980s to the early 2000s some Deobandis were heavily funded by Saudi Arabia."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi
    I can understand your confusion if your primary source for study of the Islam is Wiki-fucking-pedia.

    Deobandi are from the Hanafi madhhab of the Sunni fiqh. Wahhabi are from the Hanbali madhhab.

    Apart from the doctrinal differences Wahhabi is a top down state sponsored movement fuelled by Saudi petro dollars. Deobandi has a more communitarian movement based on local sponsors and a network of madrassas.

    The UK is probably going to be a majority muslim country in your lifespan so you really need to get on top of this shit. Disappointing.
    In which case Scotland would be a majority Muslim country too, so you could have independence but maybe under Sharia Law.

    However in reality that is very unrealistic, though by 2100 we may well be non white majority, the only nations likely still majority white by then will be Russia and Eastern Europe
    I observe that the UK is currently a majority English country, and yet Scotland is not a majority English country. A UK majority does not equal a Scotland majority (see also Westminster MPs).

    I also observe that I am unfamiliar with the country "Eastern Europe".

    I further observe that all these Britain population X by Y statements are based on crude projections of current birth rates etc and fail to take account of the fact that birth rates, in all populations, tend to drop over time. Project from early 20th century British birth rates and see where that would put the population now. Or look at currnet population changes for some Eastern European countries - on crude (silly) projections they won't be majority white, there will be no one there at all!
    I also observe HYUFD's assumption that Muslim = 'non-white" (whatever that means).
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    If anyone is having trouble viewing Twitter due to their annoying pop-ups, can I suggest following this advice:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/p5lgcv/twitter_new_filters_needed_annoying_pop/h99j3it/

    Disabling cookies on Twitter worked for me too. Probably not helpful if you want to be logged in though!
    Presumably there isn't an issue if you have an account.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2021
    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    The Taliban are primarily Deobandi not Wahhabi. Completely different.
    Is it?

    "Since the late 1970s, the movement is said to have been influenced by Wahhabism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[3] From the early 1980s to the early 2000s some Deobandis were heavily funded by Saudi Arabia."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi
    I can understand your confusion if your primary source for study of the Islam is Wiki-fucking-pedia.

    Deobandi are from the Hanafi madhhab of the Sunni fiqh. Wahhabi are from the Hanbali madhhab.

    Apart from the doctrinal differences Wahhabi is a top down state sponsored movement fuelled by Saudi petro dollars. Deobandi has a more communitarian movement based on local sponsors and a network of madrassas.

    The UK is probably going to be a majority muslim country in your lifespan so you really need to get on top of this shit. Disappointing.
    In which case Scotland would be a majority Muslim country too, so you could have independence but maybe under Sharia Law.

    However in reality that is very unrealistic, though by 2100 we may well be non white majority, the only nations likely still majority white by then will be Russia and Eastern Europe
    I observe that the UK is currently a majority English country, and yet Scotland is not a majority English country. A UK majority does not equal a Scotland majority (see also Westminster MPs).

    I also observe that I am unfamiliar with the country "Eastern Europe".

    I further observe that all these Britain population X by Y statements are based on crude projections of current birth rates etc and fail to take account of the fact that birth rates, in all populations, tend to drop over time. Project from early 20th century British birth rates and see where that would put the population now. Or look at currnet population changes for some Eastern European countries - on crude (silly) projections they won't be majority white, there will be no one there at all!
    I also observe HYUFD's assumption that Muslim = 'non-white" (whatever that means).
    No, I said we may be majority non white by 2100 (ie including British Indians, Africans, Caribbeans, Orientals etc) but it is unlikely we would be majority Muslim.

    Indeed most of the West will likely be majority non white by 2100 (just add Hispanics for the US).

    There may be a tiny fraction of white Muslims but they are very small
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    Scott_xP said:

    This isn't a defence from Dominic Raab - it's a shameful admission of his own failure to act.

    It is unbelievable that even now the Foreign Secretary is wasting time making excuses when a catastrophe is still unfolding in front of our eyes.
    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1428672668983873545

    https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1428692554850177033

    Darren Grimes, Andrew Neil, Kate Hoey - the recommendations generated by that tweet read like a Who's Who of the British hard Right.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Of all the empty, pointless statements that are periodically repeated by Western politicians, none is more empty and pointless than this: “There can be no military solution to this conflict.”
    In Afghanistan, there was a military solution: the Taliban won

    https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1428688132636041218
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    ..…
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    This site is going to be absolutely lit the weekend Taiwan falls.

    If it falls, which relies on Taiwan not having got its own nuclear weapons beforehand
    how fast is it possible to get a nuclear weapon? and if China spies the order on Amazon Prime might they not preempt their delivery by going in first.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    Foxy said:

    maaarsh said:

    Plans for a huge post-Brexit lorry park at Guston on the outskirts of Dover have been radically scaled back. The site will have just 96 parking spaces for trucks, rather than 1,200.

    https://twitter.com/SimonJonesNews/status/1428669442867740677?s=20

    Presumably because Brexit has very nearly ended all trade - couldn't possibly be a lack of promised border chaos...
    Isn't it just that the major new processing site is a different place 30km away?
    Someone's BS-ing. It isn't a lorry park - that was even in the original consultation letter last year.
    https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2020-11-04/location-of-fifth-kent-border-site-revealed
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,262

    Pulpstar said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    The Taliban are primarily Deobandi not Wahhabi. Completely different.
    Is it?

    "Since the late 1970s, the movement is said to have been influenced by Wahhabism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[3] From the early 1980s to the early 2000s some Deobandis were heavily funded by Saudi Arabia."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi
    I can understand your confusion if your primary source for study of the Islam is Wiki-fucking-pedia.

    Deobandi are from the Hanafi madhhab of the Sunni fiqh. Wahhabi are from the Hanbali madhhab.

    Apart from the doctrinal differences Wahhabi is a top down state sponsored movement fuelled by Saudi petro dollars. Deobandi has a more communitarian movement based on local sponsors and a network of madrassas.

    The UK is probably going to be a majority muslim country in your lifespan so you really need to get on top of this shit. Disappointing.
    2.7% 2001 census
    4.4% 2011 census
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: One in 80 people in England had COVID in latest week according to the Office for National Statistics.

    The ONS reports 698,100 people within the community in England had COVID-19 in the week ending 14 August

    Read more here: https://trib.al/lxQtlJb https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1428679174319972356/video/1

    1 in 80 just this week. This has been going for 80 weeks. At what point will EVERYONE either have had the bug, been vaxxed, or both? Unless reinfection is a real issue, or the vaccines seriously wane, surely this burns out soon?
    It has burned out.

    That's why people are banging on about Afghanistan.
    I wish someone could tell the 135 folk clogging up our wards including 21 on ICU that is burned out and that they can go home and stop wasting out time.
    What's the vaxxed/unvaxxed split ?
    Not for the first time, Dura Ace is talking bollocks.

    The UK will become majority mixed race, but that's about 2200 to 2220 and quite a different point (Muslims will be nothing like a majority).
    Extrapolating a population trend 200 years leads to... no information. 200 years from now every aspect of society will be radically different.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    So this not-a-coalition coalition between SNP and the Scottish Greens, the write up on the BBC seems to suggest its basically a coalition but the Greens dont have to support some specific policies and can still criticise the government.

    Is the little bit of extra stability worth the SNP giving them that latitude, above more regular minority gov or confidence and supply arrangements? It seems pretty generous.

    Yes.
    Yes it is worth the stability or yes it is generous? Or both?
    Yes it is worth the stability.

    In order to judge generosity we will have to wait for all the info next week, eg ministerial appointments.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Scott_xP said:
    Scottish sub-sample:

    SNP 53%
    SGP 3%
    Pro-independence government 56%

    SCon 22%
    SLab 15%
    SLD 5%
    BetterTogether2 42%

    oth 1% (presumably Alba)

    Then factor in that 40% of SLab voters are pro-independence.
    Meanwhile, back in the real world, the Tories gain a Council seat from the SNP. No evidence here of a huge Pro-Indy swing. The baseline is the 2017 council elections which took place a few weeks before the General Election when the SNP lost over 20 seats and knocked back Nicola's indyref plans.

    Mid-Formartine (Aberdeenshire) by-election, first preferences:

    Conservative ~ 1480 (45.7%, +11.1)
    SNP ~ 1205 (37.2%, +11.4)
    Lib Dem ~ 412 (12.7%, +3.3)
    Green ~ 144 (4.4%, +4.4)

    (Note: Candidates from 2017 not present had 30.1%)

    Calling it a “gain” is highly misleading. The Tories topped the poll in 2017 too.

    Actually a significant swing TO the Scottish Government parties.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Dura_Ace said:

    This site is going to be absolutely lit the weekend Taiwan falls.

    I cannot see that happening, too costly to take by force, even with the Americans being completely unreliable. The CCP are patient, and know their economic dominance grows each year.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,262

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    This site is going to be absolutely lit the weekend Taiwan falls.

    If it falls, which relies on Taiwan not having got its own nuclear weapons beforehand
    how fast is it possible to get a nuclear weapon? and if China spies the order on Amazon Prime might they not preempt their delivery by going in first.
    Taiwan has had civilian nuclear reactors for years. Thanks to the American insistence on ending the international re-processing trade, all the spent fuel rods are piling up there. Given that Pu-240 has a half life of seven years, quite a bit of their Plutonium must be less than 5% 240 - which makes it weapons grade. The Americans tested a device with 20%+ Pu240 as a successful experiment.

    The rest is simple engineering. The implosion system that took so much time and trouble in the 1940s would be relatively simple today. Thanks to better analysis tools - high speed x ray photography of explosions etc - they might well go straight to miniaturised, asymmetric designs.....

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    The Taliban are primarily Deobandi not Wahhabi. Completely different.
    Is it?

    "Since the late 1970s, the movement is said to have been influenced by Wahhabism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[3] From the early 1980s to the early 2000s some Deobandis were heavily funded by Saudi Arabia."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi
    I can understand your confusion if your primary source for study of the Islam is Wiki-fucking-pedia.

    Deobandi are from the Hanafi madhhab of the Sunni fiqh. Wahhabi are from the Hanbali madhhab.

    Apart from the doctrinal differences Wahhabi is a top down state sponsored movement fuelled by Saudi petro dollars. Deobandi has a more communitarian movement based on local sponsors and a network of madrassas.

    The UK is probably going to be a majority muslim country in your lifespan so you really need to get on top of this shit. Disappointing.
    In which case Scotland would be a majority Muslim country too, so you could have independence but maybe under Sharia Law.

    However in reality that is very unrealistic, though by 2100 we may well be non white majority, the only nations likely still majority white by then will be Russia and Eastern Europe
    I observe that the UK is currently a majority English country, and yet Scotland is not a majority English country. A UK majority does not equal a Scotland majority (see also Westminster MPs).

    I also observe that I am unfamiliar with the country "Eastern Europe".

    I further observe that all these Britain population X by Y statements are based on crude projections of current birth rates etc and fail to take account of the fact that birth rates, in all populations, tend to drop over time. Project from early 20th century British birth rates and see where that would put the population now. Or look at currnet population changes for some Eastern European countries - on crude (silly) projections they won't be majority white, there will be no one there at all!
    I also observe HYUFD's assumption that Muslim = 'non-white" (whatever that means).
    No, I said we may be majority non white by 2100 (ie including British Indians, Africans, Caribbeans, Orientals etc) but it is unlikely we would be majority Muslim.

    Indeed most of the West will likely be majority non white by 2100 (just add Hispanics for the US).

    There may be a tiny fraction of white Muslims but they are very small
    It's been a while since we have had a Great Replacement thread.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Scott_xP said:
    Scottish sub-sample:

    SNP 53%
    SGP 3%
    Pro-independence government 56%

    SCon 22%
    SLab 15%
    SLD 5%
    BetterTogether2 42%

    oth 1% (presumably Alba)

    Then factor in that 40% of SLab voters are pro-independence.
    That would make for 63% in favour of Independence - which we know is currently way off. Possible explanations:
    1. Single sub-samples taken in isolation are almost worthless.
    2. A substantial proportion of SNP/Green voters are pro-Union.

    Which explanation do you think is closer to the mark?
    I seem to remember seeing a poll that indicated that a substantial proportion of Scottish Green supporters are not in favour of independence. Robin Harper, the former leader of the Scottish Greens, was warning fairly recently against the Green preoccupation with Indy. I think he has a point. They seem far more energised by that and trans issues then they do with the environment.
    In the latest opinion poll on Scottish Independence 11% of those who said they voted SNP in the 2021 Holyrood constituency vote said that they would vote against Scottish Independence.
    Of course for SLab, SCon & SLDs the figs that would vote Yes were respectively 13%, 4% and 10%.
    Shh…
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    tlg86 said:

    If anyone is having trouble viewing Twitter due to their annoying pop-ups, can I suggest following this advice:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/p5lgcv/twitter_new_filters_needed_annoying_pop/h99j3it/

    Thanks - that worked a treat! I haven't been able to access Twitter properly for a few days, not having an account.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Con Maj still drifting, now 24/19
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Scottish sub-sample:

    SNP 53%
    SGP 3%
    Pro-independence government 56%

    SCon 22%
    SLab 15%
    SLD 5%
    BetterTogether2 42%

    oth 1% (presumably Alba)

    Then factor in that 40% of SLab voters are pro-independence.
    And you will still lose indyref2

    and also Scots are opposed to increases in fuel bills to pay for green energy

    Oppose 53%

    Support 30%

    Good start for the SNP-Green whatever it is
    Maybe. Maybe not.

    But Johnson is too big a scaredy cat to find out.

    Who’d’ve thought Gove had the bigger cajones?
    For all our disagreements I think we agree there is no certainty over indyref2 and to be honest I just do not see it is difficult for Boris or any PM to defer to post the 2024 election, as we still have covid and the huge costs to be mitigated before it is even sensible to consider independence

    Indeed I understand most Scots are not in favour of an early referendum
    To defer the next Scottish independence referendum is not in the gift of Boris Johnson.
    Lawyers may disagree of course (yes some will argue the other way too), but morally I don't see how a request from the Scottish Parliament could be rejected, though there's little downside from Boris's perspective since he's playing for time.
    Since when did “morality” play a role in the functions of the British state?

    There is a big downside, but I’d never disturb your opponents when they are making a mistake.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    Scott_xP said:

    This isn't a defence from Dominic Raab - it's a shameful admission of his own failure to act.

    It is unbelievable that even now the Foreign Secretary is wasting time making excuses when a catastrophe is still unfolding in front of our eyes.
    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1428672668983873545

    https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1428692554850177033

    Darren Grimes, Andrew Neil, Kate Hoey - the recommendations generated by that tweet read like a Who's Who of the British hard Right.
    Andrew Neil hard right? Don't be ridiculous.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited August 2021

    Con Maj still drifting, now 24/19

    Do what you like, but posting moves of less than 1% on markets that aren’t going to settle for 2-3 years does seem a bit ridiculous.

    As does calling it 24/19!!!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Scottish sub-sample:

    SNP 53%
    SGP 3%
    Pro-independence government 56%

    SCon 22%
    SLab 15%
    SLD 5%
    BetterTogether2 42%

    oth 1% (presumably Alba)

    Then factor in that 40% of SLab voters are pro-independence.
    And you will still lose indyref2

    and also Scots are opposed to increases in fuel bills to pay for green energy

    Oppose 53%

    Support 30%

    Good start for the SNP-Green whatever it is
    Maybe. Maybe not.

    But Johnson is too big a scaredy cat to find out.

    Who’d’ve thought Gove had the bigger cajones?
    For all our disagreements I think we agree there is no certainty over indyref2 and to be honest I just do not see it is difficult for Boris or any PM to defer to post the 2024 election, as we still have covid and the huge costs to be mitigated before it is even sensible to consider independence

    Indeed I understand most Scots are not in favour of an early referendum
    To defer the next Scottish independence referendum is not in the gift of Boris Johnson. The Scots have expressed their will at the ballot box.
    I am afraid it is
    If he thinks so and wants to try his luck, he’ll have to take the Scottish Government to court.

    Gove said he wouldn’t, but then Johnson is no brainbox.
    Even if it went to court and the court ruled the indyref2 could go ahead it means nothing, Union matters remain reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998. Courts cannot overrule statute.

    So even if Yes won Westminster would ignore the result and given large numbers of Unionists would boycott it it would need not only a Yes win but for a majority of the Scottish electorate not just the voters who took part to vote Yes for Westminster to take any notice.

    As Madrid showed in Catalonia independence referendums without central government endorsement can be ignored.

    A Tory Francoist. Who’d’ve thunk it?
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Dura_Ace said:

    This site is going to be absolutely lit the weekend Taiwan falls.

    As it should be. The fall of a major democratic country to a brutal communist autocracy would be a horrific world event. And all brought about by money grabbing interests keen to profit from China and not giving a damn about human life. Every Western company with purpose statements about ethical standards or embracing diversity should be slaughtered for having an office in genocidal China.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    DeSantis watch.

    Florida cases numbers may have peaked as of 5 days ago. I think DeSantis can survive that.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Scottish sub-sample:

    SNP 53%
    SGP 3%
    Pro-independence government 56%

    SCon 22%
    SLab 15%
    SLD 5%
    BetterTogether2 42%

    oth 1% (presumably Alba)

    Then factor in that 40% of SLab voters are pro-independence.
    Meanwhile, back in the real world, the Tories gain a Council seat from the SNP. No evidence here of a huge Pro-Indy swing. The baseline is the 2017 council elections which took place a few weeks before the General Election when the SNP lost over 20 seats and knocked back Nicola's indyref plans.

    Mid-Formartine (Aberdeenshire) by-election, first preferences:

    Conservative ~ 1480 (45.7%, +11.1)
    SNP ~ 1205 (37.2%, +11.4)
    Lib Dem ~ 412 (12.7%, +3.3)
    Green ~ 144 (4.4%, +4.4)

    (Note: Candidates from 2017 not present had 30.1%)

    Calling it a “gain” is highly misleading. The Tories topped the poll in 2017 too.

    Actually a significant swing TO the Scottish Government parties.
    I agree it's not a "real" Tory gain in the Scottish electoral system.

    But aren't you going a bit far with "significant swing"? The reality seems to be that people who voted for various indies in 2017 split in various directions.

    I'd not take anything at all from this result about the way the wind is blowing - it's an unsurprising result of the sort you'd expect from the area.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    edited August 2021
    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Is a big part of the solution just an end to our reliance on Saudi oil?

    How much of the Wahhabism that spreads across Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan is simply fuelled by their money, which is really our money since we buy so much crude from them?

    The Taliban are primarily Deobandi not Wahhabi. Completely different.
    Is it?

    "Since the late 1970s, the movement is said to have been influenced by Wahhabism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[3] From the early 1980s to the early 2000s some Deobandis were heavily funded by Saudi Arabia."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi
    I can understand your confusion if your primary source for study of the Islam is Wiki-fucking-pedia.

    Deobandi are from the Hanafi madhhab of the Sunni fiqh. Wahhabi are from the Hanbali madhhab.

    Apart from the doctrinal differences Wahhabi is a top down state sponsored movement fuelled by Saudi petro dollars. Deobandi has a more communitarian movement based on local sponsors and a network of madrassas.

    The UK is probably going to be a majority muslim country in your lifespan so you really need to get on top of this shit. Disappointing.
    In which case Scotland would be a majority Muslim country too, so you could have independence but maybe under Sharia Law.

    However in reality that is very unrealistic, though by 2100 we may well be non white majority, the only nations likely still majority white by then will be Russia and Eastern Europe
    I observe that the UK is currently a majority English country, and yet Scotland is not a majority English country. A UK majority does not equal a Scotland majority (see also Westminster MPs).

    I also observe that I am unfamiliar with the country "Eastern Europe".

    I further observe that all these Britain population X by Y statements are based on crude projections of current birth rates etc and fail to take account of the fact that birth rates, in all populations, tend to drop over time. Project from early 20th century British birth rates and see where that would put the population now. Or look at currnet population changes for some Eastern European countries - on crude (silly) projections they won't be majority white, there will be no one there at all!
    I also observe HYUFD's assumption that Muslim = 'non-white" (whatever that means).
    I decided to give the benefit of the doubt on that - that it might be the habitual collection of unlinked (supposed) factoids rather than one being linked to the other.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Scottish sub-sample:

    SNP 53%
    SGP 3%
    Pro-independence government 56%

    SCon 22%
    SLab 15%
    SLD 5%
    BetterTogether2 42%

    oth 1% (presumably Alba)

    Then factor in that 40% of SLab voters are pro-independence.
    That would make for 63% in favour of Independence - which we know is currently way off. Possible explanations:
    1. Single sub-samples taken in isolation are almost worthless.
    2. A substantial proportion of SNP/Green voters are pro-Union.

    Which explanation do you think is closer to the mark?
    I seem to remember seeing a poll that indicated that a substantial proportion of Scottish Green supporters are not in favour of independence. Robin Harper, the former leader of the Scottish Greens, was warning fairly recently against the Green preoccupation with Indy. I think he has a point. They seem far more energised by that and trans issues then they do with the environment.
    In the latest opinion poll on Scottish Independence 11% of those who said they voted SNP in the 2021 Holyrood constituency vote said that they would vote against Scottish Independence.
    Of course for SLab, SCon & SLDs the figs that would vote Yes were respectively 13%, 4% and 10%.
    An interesting split, I assumed SLDs would be lower. So while not everyone who backs Indy parties backs Indy, and not everyone who backs Unionist parties backs the Union, it essentially balances out so we can act as though the SNP+Green figure exactly tallies with INdy support, and the same for the unionist figure.
    Roughly, yes, but please note that polls regularly measure significantly higher pro-independence SLab voters than just 13%. However, when their support is down in the teens, that is not so significant
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Scott_xP said:
    Scottish sub-sample:

    SNP 53%
    SGP 3%
    Pro-independence government 56%

    SCon 22%
    SLab 15%
    SLD 5%
    BetterTogether2 42%

    oth 1% (presumably Alba)

    Then factor in that 40% of SLab voters are pro-independence.
    And you will still lose indyref2

    and also Scots are opposed to increases in fuel bills to pay for green energy

    Oppose 53%

    Support 30%

    Good start for the SNP-Green whatever it is
    Maybe. Maybe not.

    But Johnson is too big a scaredy cat to find out.

    Who’d’ve thought Gove had the bigger cajones?
    For all our disagreements I think we agree there is no certainty over indyref2 and to be honest I just do not see it is difficult for Boris or any PM to defer to post the 2024 election, as we still have covid and the huge costs to be mitigated before it is even sensible to consider independence

    Indeed I understand most Scots are not in favour of an early referendum
    To defer the next Scottish independence referendum is not in the gift of Boris Johnson. The Scots have expressed their will at the ballot box.
    I am afraid it is
    If he thinks so and wants to try his luck, he’ll have to take the Scottish Government to court.

    Gove said he wouldn’t, but then Johnson is no brainbox.
    We all know HMG will not take Scotland to Court

    If the SNP decide to hold their own indyref2 it will be in the Scottish Courts from Scots living in Scotland who oppose it
    You make a very good point, though it wouldn't even need to be Scots living in Scotland. It could be anyone in the UK. The devolved Scottish government does not have the power to call a referendum or administer it. I imagine an injunction would prevent any moves to implement it. I should think Nicola knows this. She will probably have her vote in the Scottish Parliament and then say that the judges are the "enemy of the people", or some kind of divisive nationalist bullshit.
    … said the British nationalist.
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