Unlike some others on here I am much more exercised by Prince Andrew than Prince Harry. But mileages - like recollections - vary, I guess.
Harry's greatest weakness is his sense of entitlement, but he is hardly alone amongst that crowd. At least he wants to do some public service, but is prevented from doing so.
Not a binary choice mate, can be appalled by both for different reasons. Harry’s constant sniping via close contacts is become tiresome. Just say something yourself. Of course his current disdain for the monarch will be forgotten when he visits her with Netflix cameras in tow.
I am not surprised that someone who has behaved so disgracefully towards the Royal Family is now prevented from representing the Royal Family. A long period of banishment sounds about right... if not a permanent one.
I only listened to Boris, Starmer and May in yesterday's debate as I had to go out, but would affirm that Boris was appalling, embarrassingly so, and if it does not wake up his colleagues that he needs to go then I do question just how bad he has to get
Starmer's speech was pitch perfect and statesman like as I commented at the time, but he went on and spoiled it with exaggeration and petty point scoring
May is carrying a huge vendetta against Boris and while she may have appealed to some conservative backbenchers, her idea Nato and assorted allies could have remained in Afghanistan is idiotic especially without the US
Yesterday's mail poll had just 2% blaming Boris and had he performed at the dispatch box he would have had a better chance of defecting a lot of the criticism that came his way
And some of you will be interested to know I have made the decisions to lapse my conservative membership due in October, (as has my wife) notwithstanding I lose my vote for the next leader, as I cannot continue to attack Boris, Patel and Williamson freely as a member
I would just make this clear however, I support HMG over covid, the economy and brexit and of course Boris will not be there forever either
ANALYSIS: It was striking to see the prime minister at once surrounded by colleagues and seemingly almost completely alone. Yesterday’s debate left the Prime Minister and his version of Global Britain diminished by events in Afghanistan https://trib.al/rLfdOUH
Unlike some others on here I am much more exercised by Prince Andrew than Prince Harry. But mileages - like recollections - vary, I guess.
Harry's greatest weakness is his sense of entitlement, but he is hardly alone amongst that crowd. At least he wants to do some public service, but is prevented from doing so.
Not a binary choice mate, can be appalled by both for different reasons. Harry’s constant sniping via close contacts is become tiresome. Just say something yourself. Of course his current disdain for the monarch will be forgotten when he visits her with Netflix cameras in tow.
The funny thing is, that he doesn’t seem to realise he’ll be needing filming permits for everywhere he goes with the Netflix cameras. Do you think The Royal Borough of Windsor is going to give him one? It’ll end up being mobile phone footage from outside the gates of the Castle.
Also, some very funny tributes and obituaries for comedian Sean Lock in the papers today.
I liked Sean Lock (and posted his death to pb yesterday) but suspect most of the country that does not watch 8 Out of 10 Cats will be asking, Sean who?
Interesting how times change. There probably are some double standards to a certain extent, but the sensitivity in today's world means that I suspect such comedy wouldn't be acceptable today, which sad in my opinion.
I only listened to Boris, Starmer and May in yesterday's debate as I had to go out, but would affirm that Boris was appalling, embarrassingly so, and if it does not wake up his colleagues that he needs to go then I do question just how bad he has to get
Starmer's speech was pitch perfect and statesman like as I commented at the time, but he went on and spoiled it with exaggeration and petty point scoring
May is carrying a huge vendetta against Boris and while she may have appealed to some conservative backbenchers, her idea Nato and assorted allies could have remained in Afghanistan is idiotic especially without the US
Yesterday's mail poll had just 2% blaming Boris and had he performed at the dispatch box he would have had a better chance of defecting a lot of the criticism that came his way
And some of you will be interested to know I have made the decisions to lapse my conservative membership due in October, (as has my wife) notwithstanding I lose my vote for the next leader, as I cannot continue to attack Boris, Patel and Williamson freely as a member
I would just make this clear however, I support HMG over covid, the economy and brexit and of course Boris will not be there forever either
Is May taking over the role once performed by Edward Heath?
I only listened to Boris, Starmer and May in yesterday's debate as I had to go out, but would affirm that Boris was appalling, embarrassingly so, and if it does not wake up his colleagues that he needs to go then I do question just how bad he has to get
Starmer's speech was pitch perfect and statesman like as I commented at the time, but he went on and spoiled it with exaggeration and petty point scoring
May is carrying a huge vendetta against Boris and while she may have appealed to some conservative backbenchers, her idea Nato and assorted allies could have remained in Afghanistan is idiotic especially without the US
Yesterday's mail poll had just 2% blaming Boris and had he performed at the dispatch box he would have had a better chance of defecting a lot of the criticism that came his way
And some of you will be interested to know I have made the decisions to lapse my conservative membership due in October, (as has my wife) notwithstanding I lose my vote for the next leader, as I cannot continue to attack Boris, Patel and Williamson freely as a member
I would just make this clear however, I support HMG over covid, the economy and brexit and of course Boris will not be there forever either
Is May taking over the role once performed by Edward Heath?
She is certainly very bitter but to be honest she was a very poor PM
Scientists at the University of Oxford found levels of the virus could be just as high in people who get COVID despite having both jabs as in those who haven't been vaccinated https://trib.al/JdZ6g79
That’s disappointing. For a long time we hoped that the vaccinated would be a basis of herd immunity. It’s very bad news for those who have chosen not to be vaxed.
It looks like the vaccines are more effective against symptoms, than infection or transmissibility. Looks like we are all going to get this at some point.
I’ve just been told well be getting boosters out here, six months after the second dose, which was three weeks after the first dose - Pfizer vaccine. It appears, with the benefit of hindsight, that the three-week gap was too short, but that’s what was trialled. Good (and brave, at the time) call by the UK to go with the longer dose interval.
If the vaccine isn’t priming the immune system to react quickly in suppressing and eliminating the virus within your body, hence both reducing your load and your symptoms, it makes you wonder how exactly is it doing it?
The immune system is pretty well primed to deal with the virus - which is why the levels of serious disease are so much lower among the vaccinated. As we know it's also not useless at preventing infection, just less effective than we originally hoped.
As far as infectiousness for a respiratory disease is concerned, it's the load in your airways which counts. There's a separate component of the immune system which which is the first line of defence in the mucous membrane: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunoglobulin_A It's probably not particularly well primed by a vaccine given by injection. I think there are a couple of trials being done with delivering the vaccines intranasally.
Whilst I don’t think the government has handled Afghanistan especially well, I’d be amazed if this makes any difference to public opinion on the parties. It feels like another example of the media being disconnected from the ordinary people. As sad as the situation is, this is really low down the list of priorities.
I disagree. Major foreign affairs cock-ups affect the zeitgeist. The Johnson and Raab indifference, finger pointing and lack of agency has not gone unnoticed. While voters may forgive the Conservative Party, this constant drip, drip, drip of Johnson incompetency is going to result in a leadership crisis. The only question is when?
Just because thats from the Daily Mail one wouldn't automatically think that its true..if it is however, its awful.
I don't even understand how he could be on holiday. AIUI Deputy PM is not really a job apart from when the PM is away on holiday himself (or ill). How on earth can he schedule his holiday at the same time as the PM in the first place, regardless of what went on, and meet his obligations as Deputy PM?
I only listened to Boris, Starmer and May in yesterday's debate as I had to go out, but would affirm that Boris was appalling, embarrassingly so, and if it does not wake up his colleagues that he needs to go then I do question just how bad he has to get
Starmer's speech was pitch perfect and statesman like as I commented at the time, but he went on and spoiled it with exaggeration and petty point scoring
May is carrying a huge vendetta against Boris and while she may have appealed to some conservative backbenchers, her idea Nato and assorted allies could have remained in Afghanistan is idiotic especially without the US
Yesterday's mail poll had just 2% blaming Boris and had he performed at the dispatch box he would have had a better chance of defecting a lot of the criticism that came his way
And some of you will be interested to know I have made the decisions to lapse my conservative membership due in October, (as has my wife) notwithstanding I lose my vote for the next leader, as I cannot continue to attack Boris, Patel and Williamson freely as a member
I would just make this clear however, I support HMG over covid, the economy and brexit and of course Boris will not be there forever either
If the "petty point scoring was him attacking slack-jawed Raab for staying on the beach instead of making phonecalls, have you seen the front page of the Daily Mail?
It isn't petty when lives are lost through inaction.
In regard to booster shots the latest communications that Surgeries have received in Hampshire is that those who have had Pfifzer will require a half dose as a booster and these will start in about 3 weeks.
Those who have had AZN are unlikely to require a booster as its effectiveness keeps building.
Is that true? I think a fairly hefty citation is needed.
So the patriots demanding the "English" vaccine over the "German" vaccine were very wise. Hmmm?
It has been assumed by most (including me) that we could do nothing about any of this with the US departure, but is that true? I don't know, but it isn't obvious. I have seen two comments recently regarding this. It has to be remembered there weren't many US troops left in Afghanistan anyway. Mercer commented we could have taken on their roles. Someone else commented on the size of the US military presence (I think it was Ben Wallace) a few days ago. He pointed out it was less than the military presence (I assume I misheard, or he meant staff) in the US embassy in the UK.
I have no knowledge or experience in this area, but it is an obvious question. It is not like the usual situation where we can't muster the resources of the US.
It has been assumed by most (including me) that we could do nothing about any of this with the US departure, but is that true? I don't know, but it isn't obvious. I have seen two comments recently regarding this. It has to be remembered there weren't many US troops left in Afghanistan anyway. Mercer commented we could have taken on their roles. Someone else commented on the size of the US military presence (I think it was Ben Wallace) a few days ago. He pointed out it was less than the military presence (I assume I misheard, or he meant staff) in the US embassy in the UK.
I have no knowledge or experience in this area, but it is an obvious question. It is not like the usual situation where we can't muster the resources of the US.
The junior partner in any arrangement is subject to the whim of the majority partner. Believe me, I’ve been there.
What does seem to have been seriously lacking in this case is any regular consultation or information such as happened with the 2 Iraq wars, the first especially.
I suspect that we have become less of an issue in the American mind. Our contribution in Afghanistan over the last 6 years since we stopped front line engagement ( and deaths) has meant we were not in the loop to the same extent. Our embarrassing performance in Iraq where the besieged UK force was practically rescued in Basra having given up their mission there probably didn’t help either.
I think any British PM will give this serious thought before jumping in with the Americans again.
All of the ex-servicemen who spoke gave similar testimonies, as for a split second did Ben Wallace on LBC with his "cos I'm a sold..." snapped response as to why he is taking this all so personally.
I note the dismissal of Tugendhat's "performance" from several posters above and have to ask - have you served? Unless you have seen what these men have seen who are you to call them fakes?
Who called him a fake? My point is that he wasn’t imo very good at presenting his authentic experience as a professional soldier.
You did. His speech was a "performance" - an act, a fake.
I don't think that's fair - all speeches are performances, and while I've no doubt his emotions were genuine, Tugendhat's was no different in that respect.
A question I do have about him is whether he's being wise after the event. He is chair of the Commons Foreign Affairs Select Committee. I posted yesterday a link to the House of Lords select committee report from January this year, which is comprehensive, and in some respect prescient about what subsequently happened: https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld5801/ldselect/ldintrel/208/20802.htm
I've searched back, and can find nothing of significance from either the Defence or Foreign Affairs committees of the Commons in the last two years.
I'm also not sure whether he made any comment at all on the Trump deal last year (our Defence Minister welcomed it at the time). Prior to the debate, I can find him speaking in the HoC on Afghanistan only twice in the last two years (April and July this year).
I don't personally believe either UK or US are diminished, but then I'm not Theresa May or Tom Tugenhadt.
The UK has no power to do these sort of things unilaterally. The US does but decided not to.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Not what Theresa, Tom and several others were suggesting though.
They're wrong.
What did Theresa ever manage to achieve unilaterally?
Do you honestly believe for a fraction of a second that if Theresa was still PM we'd have remained after Biden's unilateral withdrawal decision?
I don't and I don't think you honestly hand on heart believe that either. So why pretend we should listen to disgraced ex PMs like that?
Remind us, what was the scandal that brought down Theresa May? Was it financial or sexual? She is not a "disgraced" former Prime Minister simply because you disagreed with her.
The scandal was being so completely out of touch with reality, so divorced from reality and so incapable that her signature policy she spent years working on was rejected by the greatest ever defeat in the House of Commons in the modern era.
So completely incapable that her European partners were openly laughing at her and mocking her.
So utterly out of touch that having lost her majority she didn't resign, having suffered the greatest ever defeat in the Commons on her signature policy she still didn't have the dignity to resign, only getting kicked out after she had dragged her party down to single digits in a national election.
If you want sound judgement and reality based politics then yes she's absolutely disgraced and it's an embarrassment she still sits in the Commons.
PS thats without considering the fact that she was the person behind the Windrush Scandal etc since that scandal came out after she left office and didn't bring her down. But it should be remembered.
Comments
I only listened to Boris, Starmer and May in yesterday's debate as I had to go out, but would affirm that Boris was appalling, embarrassingly so, and if it does not wake up his colleagues that he needs to go then I do question just how bad he has to get
Starmer's speech was pitch perfect and statesman like as I commented at the time, but he went on and spoiled it with exaggeration and petty point scoring
May is carrying a huge vendetta against Boris and while she may have appealed to some conservative backbenchers, her idea Nato and assorted allies could have remained in Afghanistan is idiotic especially without the US
Yesterday's mail poll had just 2% blaming Boris and had he performed at the dispatch box he would have had a better chance of defecting a lot of the criticism that came his way
And some of you will be interested to know I have made the decisions to lapse my conservative membership due in October, (as has my wife) notwithstanding I lose my vote for the next leader, as I cannot continue to attack Boris, Patel and Williamson freely as a member
I would just make this clear however, I support HMG over covid, the economy and brexit and of course Boris will not be there forever either
https://trib.al/rLfdOUH
https://twitter.com/sturgeons_law/status/1428184368728600578?s=21
As far as infectiousness for a respiratory disease is concerned, it's the load in your airways which counts. There's a separate component of the immune system which which is the first line of defence in the mucous membrane:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunoglobulin_A
It's probably not particularly well primed by a vaccine given by injection. I think there are a couple of trials being done with delivering the vaccines intranasally.
It isn't petty when lives are lost through inaction.
So the patriots demanding the "English" vaccine over the "German" vaccine were very wise. Hmmm?
I have no knowledge or experience in this area, but it is an obvious question. It is not like the usual situation where we can't muster the resources of the US.
What does seem to have been seriously lacking in this case is any regular consultation or information such as happened with the 2 Iraq wars, the first especially.
I suspect that we have become less of an issue in the American mind. Our contribution in Afghanistan over the last 6 years since we stopped front line engagement ( and deaths) has meant we were not in the loop to the same extent. Our embarrassing performance in Iraq where the besieged UK force was practically rescued in Basra having given up their mission there probably didn’t help either.
I think any British PM will give this serious thought before jumping in with the Americans again.
A question I do have about him is whether he's being wise after the event. He is chair of the Commons Foreign Affairs Select Committee.
I posted yesterday a link to the House of Lords select committee report from January this year, which is comprehensive, and in some respect prescient about what subsequently happened:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld5801/ldselect/ldintrel/208/20802.htm
I've searched back, and can find nothing of significance from either the Defence or Foreign Affairs committees of the Commons in the last two years.
I'm also not sure whether he made any comment at all on the Trump deal last year (our Defence Minister welcomed it at the time). Prior to the debate, I can find him speaking in the HoC on Afghanistan only twice in the last two years (April and July this year).
So completely incapable that her European partners were openly laughing at her and mocking her.
So utterly out of touch that having lost her majority she didn't resign, having suffered the greatest ever defeat in the Commons on her signature policy she still didn't have the dignity to resign, only getting kicked out after she had dragged her party down to single digits in a national election.
If you want sound judgement and reality based politics then yes she's absolutely disgraced and it's an embarrassment she still sits in the Commons.
PS thats without considering the fact that she was the person behind the Windrush Scandal etc since that scandal came out after she left office and didn't bring her down. But it should be remembered.