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How Starmer could become PM – politicalbetting.com

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited August 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Government plans to resettle refugees directly from refugee camps, just as it did with Syrians. Expect 30-50k over the next couple of years at least. I think the government really needs to start dealing with the chancers arriving in Dover.

    That was one of the most sensible things Cameron did.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,849
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Unimpressed by Biden. Unimpressed by Starmer.

    Since we appear to be reliving the worst bits of the 1970's, worth noting that Fred Emery's very good 5-part documentary on Watergate is on iPlayer. Well worth watching.

    Washington Behind Closed Doors was also brilliant.
    That was a great show. Remember it well after all these years. Was President Richard Monckton based on Nixon? I rather think he might have been.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,225
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    This is pure anecdata but all my American friends who have expressed an opinion - and they are 100% anti-Trump, generally liberal - say they are ‘ashamed’ by the Afghan situation. That’s their word

    Perhaps more interestingly, they are starting the conversation. eg ‘Are you watching the news from Afghanistan?’

    This must hurt Biden? But my friends might be unrepresentative

    I think the manner of the withdrawal that has put Americans at risk is what will hurt him the most. Extending the withdrawal timeframe by an extra month to continue getting thousands of people out of the country would have been a no cost option but he chose to push the withdrawal date up and that has had pretty awful consequences with people now trapped and the US government hoping that the Taliban won't execute or ransom them.
    Check the MSNBC interview I linked below. It’s devastating for Biden. Heck, I’ll post it again


    https://twitter.com/whitneyleerob/status/1427386966685913092?s=21


    Apparently the full version is even more excoriating
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,612
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tonight, the A400M of the German Luftwaffe evacuated 7 people from Kabul.
    Yes, you read that correctly. SEVEN.
    Those 7 were at the airport and on the official embassy-list to be flown out.
    My heart breaks for those who helped our army for years and are now being left behind.

    https://twitter.com/JeannePlaumann/status/1427389030694629377?s=19

    There’s so many jokes there to be made, about both the Luftwaffe and the A400M - but seriously Germany, what the hell?

    The A400M is quite reliable in Crab Air's hands. They generate about 65% of the fleet for operations which is stunningly good by military standards. C-130 struggles to break 50% these days. It would have been the perfect 'stratactical' lifter for the UK if they didn't already have C-17 and C-130.
    The C-17 that we only got because the 400M was so late that we had a huge hole in capability, and turned out to be a much better fit for the requirement, than the plane that couldn’t work out if it was supposed to a Hercules or a Globemaster, but was more expensive and less capable than either?

    We only got them, because otherwise some hapless SoS would have had to plead the Treasury to write off the development costs, for which we were already deep in the hole.
    Wasn't there a thing where the RAF were told not to do rough field operations with C-17s because that might suggest that the A400 wasn't necessary?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited August 2021
    I am surprised Prof Peston hasn't been on the case....

    https://order-order.com/2021/08/17/fact-check-boris-sets-his-watch-12-minutes-fast-to-stop-being-late/

    I actually do something similar. Just 5 mins ahead. I find it useful particular in my car.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Unimpressed by Biden. Unimpressed by Starmer.

    Since we appear to be reliving the worst bits of the 1970's, worth noting that Fred Emery's very good 5-part documentary on Watergate is on iPlayer. Well worth watching.

    Washington Behind Closed Doors was also brilliant.
    That was a great show. Remember it well after all these years. Was President Richard Monckton based on Nixon? I rather think he might have been.
    Very much so.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    This is pure anecdata but all my American friends who have expressed an opinion - and they are 100% anti-Trump, generally liberal - say they are ‘ashamed’ by the Afghan situation. That’s their word

    Perhaps more interestingly, they are starting the conversation. eg ‘Are you watching the news from Afghanistan?’

    This must hurt Biden? But my friends might be unrepresentative

    I think the manner of the withdrawal that has put Americans at risk is what will hurt him the most. Extending the withdrawal timeframe by an extra month to continue getting thousands of people out of the country would have been a no cost option but he chose to push the withdrawal date up and that has had pretty awful consequences with people now trapped and the US government hoping that the Taliban won't execute or ransom them.
    Check the MSNBC interview I linked below. It’s devastating for Biden. Heck, I’ll post it again


    https://twitter.com/whitneyleerob/status/1427386966685913092?s=21


    Apparently the full version is even more excoriating
    It's only my impression, but I've been struck at how many people who are often diametrically opposed over economic issues or Brexit are appalled by what has happened.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    edited August 2021

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tonight, the A400M of the German Luftwaffe evacuated 7 people from Kabul.
    Yes, you read that correctly. SEVEN.
    Those 7 were at the airport and on the official embassy-list to be flown out.
    My heart breaks for those who helped our army for years and are now being left behind.

    https://twitter.com/JeannePlaumann/status/1427389030694629377?s=19

    There’s so many jokes there to be made, about both the Luftwaffe and the A400M - but seriously Germany, what the hell?

    The A400M is quite reliable in Crab Air's hands. They generate about 65% of the fleet for operations which is stunningly good by military standards. C-130 struggles to break 50% these days. It would have been the perfect 'stratactical' lifter for the UK if they didn't already have C-17 and C-130.
    The C-17 that we only got because the 400M was so late that we had a huge hole in capability, and turned out to be a much better fit for the requirement, than the plane that couldn’t work out if it was supposed to a Hercules or a Globemaster, but was more expensive and less capable than either?

    We only got them, because otherwise some hapless SoS would have had to plead the Treasury to write off the development costs, for which we were already deep in the hole.
    Wasn't there a thing where the RAF were told not to do rough field operations with C-17s because that might suggest that the A400 wasn't necessary?
    The original terms of the lease arrangement prohibited it (and many other things like para dropping and AAR). It's not an issue now that they are all owned - although still strictly operated to USAF SOPs.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,459

    Tonight, the A400M of the German Luftwaffe evacuated 7 people from Kabul.
    Yes, you read that correctly. SEVEN.
    Those 7 were at the airport and on the official embassy-list to be flown out.
    My heart breaks for those who helped our army for years and are now being left behind.

    https://twitter.com/JeannePlaumann/status/1427389030694629377?s=19

    Could Reuters be a better source than your random tweet? Merkel anticipates having to evacuate up to 10,000 Afghans with German connections:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/merkel-says-germany-must-focus-its-afghan-rescue-mission-2021-08-16/
    "Random tweet"... that's a journalist with Bild talking about a featured story in the newspaper.
    A journalist with Bild with just 2,296 followers? That doesn't suggest many people use her as a source of reliable news. I prefer the Reuters article, thanks, without the anti-German rhetoric.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited August 2021

    Tonight, the A400M of the German Luftwaffe evacuated 7 people from Kabul.
    Yes, you read that correctly. SEVEN.
    Those 7 were at the airport and on the official embassy-list to be flown out.
    My heart breaks for those who helped our army for years and are now being left behind.

    https://twitter.com/JeannePlaumann/status/1427389030694629377?s=19

    Could Reuters be a better source than your random tweet? Merkel anticipates having to evacuate up to 10,000 Afghans with German connections:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/merkel-says-germany-must-focus-its-afghan-rescue-mission-2021-08-16/
    "Random tweet"... that's a journalist with Bild talking about a featured story in the newspaper.
    A journalist with Bild with just 2,296 followers? That doesn't suggest many people use her as a source of reliable news. I prefer the Reuters article, thanks, without the anti-German rhetoric.
    Its a main story in the newspaper....1.7m follower account enough for you?

    https://twitter.com/BILD/status/1427551508325937185?s=19

    The story is getting a lot of attention on social media. Its not anti-German rhetoric, it is a major German newspaper asking what the hell is going on.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    This is pure anecdata but all my American friends who have expressed an opinion - and they are 100% anti-Trump, generally liberal - say they are ‘ashamed’ by the Afghan situation. That’s their word

    Perhaps more interestingly, they are starting the conversation. eg ‘Are you watching the news from Afghanistan?’

    This must hurt Biden? But my friends might be unrepresentative

    I think the manner of the withdrawal that has put Americans at risk is what will hurt him the most. Extending the withdrawal timeframe by an extra month to continue getting thousands of people out of the country would have been a no cost option but he chose to push the withdrawal date up and that has had pretty awful consequences with people now trapped and the US government hoping that the Taliban won't execute or ransom them.
    Check the MSNBC interview I linked below. It’s devastating for Biden. Heck, I’ll post it again


    https://twitter.com/whitneyleerob/status/1427386966685913092?s=21


    Apparently the full version is even more excoriating
    It's only my impression, but I've been struck at how many people who are often diametrically opposed over economic issues or Brexit are appalled by what has happened.
    Having been away at a u3a zoom meeting and having just switched over, I don't think it's difficult to be appalled at the Afghanistan situation, wherever one is on whichever political spectrum.
  • justin124 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I think Starmer will perform significantly better than most think and has a good chance at being PM of a minority Government. My view is he would be a lot better at that than LOTO

    He will not get anywhere near office so we will never know.
    He's a lot more popular than Corbyn
    I would rather suggest that he isn't as aggressively unpopular as Corbyn was, with a large chunk of the electorate.

    Outside of a portion of Maomentum, Starmer isn't disliked, from what I can see in polling.

    He needs to come up with a pitch as to why people should vote *for* him, though.
    He's strongly disliked by 2 groups. The Corbynite Left, as you say, and also a certain type of chippy Hard Leaver for whom he epitomizes the (imaginary but vividly real for them) Metropolitan Professional Remainer Class who tried to steal their Brexit.
    But the critical thing is the perception of the Labour Party not just its leader. To get a majority that needs to be transformed or the Tories utterly self-destruct and things go very badly wrong in next few years.
    There is just about no chance that LAB can win a majority. The loss of Scotland makes that almost impossible. The best for Starmer is a hung parliament with the Tories unable to find support
    I do strongly suspect though that if the polls in 2023/2024 are similar - or better for Labour - than the last two Redfield & Wilton polls, Labour will recover somewhat in Scotland to the extent of at least matching its 2017 result there. Many voters who plump for the SNP for Holyrood would switch back to Labour at Westminster to defeat the Tories across GB.
    It would be interesting to see SLab label the SNP as Tories' little helpers. Whether it would be effective is a separate question.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    Leon said:

    This is pure anecdata but all my American friends who have expressed an opinion - and they are 100% anti-Trump, generally liberal - say they are ‘ashamed’ by the Afghan situation. That’s their word

    Perhaps more interestingly, they are starting the conversation. eg ‘Are you watching the news from Afghanistan?’

    This must hurt Biden? But my friends might be unrepresentative

    Surely there are Albanian taxi drivers available in Athens?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,849

    Sandpit said:

    I think Starmer will perform significantly better than most think and has a good chance at being PM of a minority Government. My view is he would be a lot better at that than LOTO

    He will not get anywhere near office so we will never know.
    He's a lot more popular than Corbyn
    I would rather suggest that he isn't as aggressively unpopular as Corbyn was, with a large chunk of the electorate.

    Outside of a portion of Maomentum, Starmer isn't disliked, from what I can see in polling.

    He needs to come up with a pitch as to why people should vote *for* him, though.
    I concede.

    But this a much better starting point than Corbyn, Ed M
    Jeremy Corbyn went quickly from loved in 2017 to hated in 2019 and CCHQ will be hoping – and certainly planning – to effect the same transformation on the current leader. Soon after Starmer was elected, there were a number of posts here and elsewhere blaming his time as DPP for failure to prosecute or pursue various ne'er-do-wells and these may have been trial runs.
    Interestingly, his opponents on the ultra-left in the Labour party are trying to use his time in DPP to make him out to be some kind of heartless oppressor of the poor/minorities.

    There is only one area in the DPP thing that could really hurt him - but I don't think that he would have been stupid enough to be connected to it.
    The “Rotherham problem”, or Jimmy Savile?
    It does not really matter if Starmer was involved or not. If the suggestion is made on social media, under the radar, who will even know to refute it?
    Unlike you to be so cynical. I think it does actually matter whether Starmer was involved or not. It would be nice to focus on the truth.
    Lots of things should matter: few things do. I expect CCHQ's fact-checking service will give them a clean bill of health.

    Twitter accuses Tories of misleading public with 'factcheck' foray
    Dominic Raab defends rebranding account during debate and adds: ‘no one gives a toss’

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/20/twitter-accuses-tories-of-misleading-public-in-factcheck-row
    Yes, I know. I'm old-fashioned and naive, I guess. I'd rather follow Michelle Obama's edict, though: when they go low, we should go high.
    Better in the long run. The eventual win counts for more then. The mandate is stronger. It's tempting to give some back, though, it really is. Eg the "Johnson Variant". Not great, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't hoping it would take off, like the "Surrender Act" did. But of course it didn't. In which case it's perhaps best not to go there in the 1st place.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited August 2021

    I am surprised Prof Peston hasn't been on the case....

    https://order-order.com/2021/08/17/fact-check-boris-sets-his-watch-12-minutes-fast-to-stop-being-late/

    I actually do something similar. Just 5 mins ahead. I find it useful particular in my car.

    My wife does that with her alarm clock, it’s about 10 minutes fast and she reckons it gives her extra time in the morning - as opposed to taking her a second to realise it’s the wrong time, and hitting snooze once more.

    The car clock adjusts itself from the RDS data stream, and I’m pretty much always looking at a computer or phone with ntp time. I make a point of keeping the (old-fashioned, mechanical) wristwatch adjusted to the phone time evey few days.

    For someone like the PM it’s perhaps not a bad idea, as his movements are all carefully choreographed and involve others. It would be rude to keep people waiting.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,612

    Leon said:

    This is pure anecdata but all my American friends who have expressed an opinion - and they are 100% anti-Trump, generally liberal - say they are ‘ashamed’ by the Afghan situation. That’s their word

    Perhaps more interestingly, they are starting the conversation. eg ‘Are you watching the news from Afghanistan?’

    This must hurt Biden? But my friends might be unrepresentative

    Surely there are Albanian taxi drivers available in Athens?
    {enters black cab}

    "I 'ad that Najibullah in the back once. Proper gent. Tipped decent. Not like that Karzai. But what do you expect from a bloke named after a toilet....."
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715

    justin124 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I think Starmer will perform significantly better than most think and has a good chance at being PM of a minority Government. My view is he would be a lot better at that than LOTO

    He will not get anywhere near office so we will never know.
    He's a lot more popular than Corbyn
    I would rather suggest that he isn't as aggressively unpopular as Corbyn was, with a large chunk of the electorate.

    Outside of a portion of Maomentum, Starmer isn't disliked, from what I can see in polling.

    He needs to come up with a pitch as to why people should vote *for* him, though.
    He's strongly disliked by 2 groups. The Corbynite Left, as you say, and also a certain type of chippy Hard Leaver for whom he epitomizes the (imaginary but vividly real for them) Metropolitan Professional Remainer Class who tried to steal their Brexit.
    But the critical thing is the perception of the Labour Party not just its leader. To get a majority that needs to be transformed or the Tories utterly self-destruct and things go very badly wrong in next few years.
    There is just about no chance that LAB can win a majority. The loss of Scotland makes that almost impossible. The best for Starmer is a hung parliament with the Tories unable to find support
    I do strongly suspect though that if the polls in 2023/2024 are similar - or better for Labour - than the last two Redfield & Wilton polls, Labour will recover somewhat in Scotland to the extent of at least matching its 2017 result there. Many voters who plump for the SNP for Holyrood would switch back to Labour at Westminster to defeat the Tories across GB.
    It would be interesting to see SLab label the SNP as Tories' little helpers. Whether it would be effective is a separate question.
    I think Johnson and the Tories have, over the past dozen or so years, managed to seriously upset all the possible coalition, or even C&S, partners. To such an extent that they would have to rely on Sinn Fein's abstentions to form a Government.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited August 2021
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    I think Starmer will perform significantly better than most think and has a good chance at being PM of a minority Government. My view is he would be a lot better at that than LOTO

    He will not get anywhere near office so we will never know.
    He's a lot more popular than Corbyn
    I would rather suggest that he isn't as aggressively unpopular as Corbyn was, with a large chunk of the electorate.

    Outside of a portion of Maomentum, Starmer isn't disliked, from what I can see in polling.

    He needs to come up with a pitch as to why people should vote *for* him, though.
    I concede.

    But this a much better starting point than Corbyn, Ed M
    Jeremy Corbyn went quickly from loved in 2017 to hated in 2019 and CCHQ will be hoping – and certainly planning – to effect the same transformation on the current leader. Soon after Starmer was elected, there were a number of posts here and elsewhere blaming his time as DPP for failure to prosecute or pursue various ne'er-do-wells and these may have been trial runs.
    Interestingly, his opponents on the ultra-left in the Labour party are trying to use his time in DPP to make him out to be some kind of heartless oppressor of the poor/minorities.

    There is only one area in the DPP thing that could really hurt him - but I don't think that he would have been stupid enough to be connected to it.
    The “Rotherham problem”, or Jimmy Savile?
    It does not really matter if Starmer was involved or not. If the suggestion is made on social media, under the radar, who will even know to refute it?
    Unlike you to be so cynical. I think it does actually matter whether Starmer was involved or not. It would be nice to focus on the truth.
    Lots of things should matter: few things do. I expect CCHQ's fact-checking service will give them a clean bill of health.

    Twitter accuses Tories of misleading public with 'factcheck' foray
    Dominic Raab defends rebranding account during debate and adds: ‘no one gives a toss’

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/20/twitter-accuses-tories-of-misleading-public-in-factcheck-row
    Yes, I know. I'm old-fashioned and naive, I guess. I'd rather follow Michelle Obama's edict, though: when they go low, we should go high.
    Better in the long run. The eventual win counts for more then. The mandate is stronger. It's tempting to give some back, though, it really is. Eg the "Johnson Variant". Not great, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't hoping it would take off, like the "Surrender Act" did. But of course it didn't. In which case it's perhaps best not to go there in the 1st place.
    Johnson variant was incredibly school playground stuff. If you are trying to portray yourself as the serious grown up professional, its totally off brand.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I think Starmer will perform significantly better than most think and has a good chance at being PM of a minority Government. My view is he would be a lot better at that than LOTO

    He will not get anywhere near office so we will never know.
    He's a lot more popular than Corbyn
    I would rather suggest that he isn't as aggressively unpopular as Corbyn was, with a large chunk of the electorate.

    Outside of a portion of Maomentum, Starmer isn't disliked, from what I can see in polling.

    He needs to come up with a pitch as to why people should vote *for* him, though.
    He's strongly disliked by 2 groups. The Corbynite Left, as you say, and also a certain type of chippy Hard Leaver for whom he epitomizes the (imaginary but vividly real for them) Metropolitan Professional Remainer Class who tried to steal their Brexit.
    But the critical thing is the perception of the Labour Party not just its leader. To get a majority that needs to be transformed or the Tories utterly self-destruct and things go very badly wrong in next few years.
    There is just about no chance that LAB can win a majority. The loss of Scotland makes that almost impossible. The best for Starmer is a hung parliament with the Tories unable to find support
    I do strongly suspect though that if the polls in 2023/2024 are similar - or better for Labour - than the last two Redfield & Wilton polls, Labour will recover somewhat in Scotland to the extent of at least matching its 2017 result there. Many voters who plump for the SNP for Holyrood would switch back to Labour at Westminster to defeat the Tories across GB.
    It would be interesting to see SLab label the SNP as Tories' little helpers. Whether it would be effective is a separate question.
    No harm in reminding voters how the SNP helped Thatcher gain power in 1979, but I suspect that more significant would be the context of a GB Westminster election at which Labour appeared to have the realistic prospect of ousting the Tories.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,612
    Sandpit said:

    I am surprised Prof Peston hasn't been on the case....

    https://order-order.com/2021/08/17/fact-check-boris-sets-his-watch-12-minutes-fast-to-stop-being-late/

    I actually do something similar. Just 5 mins ahead. I find it useful particular in my car.

    My wife does that with her alarm clock, it’s about 10 minutes fast and she reckons it gives her extra time in the morning - as opposed to taking her a second to realise it’s the wrong time, and hitting snooze once more.

    The car clock adjusts itself from the RDS data stream, and I’m pretty much always looking at a computer or phone with ntp time. I make a point of keeping the (old-fashioned, mechanical) wristwatch adjusted to the phone time evey few days.
    My father actually find the modern thing with auto-syncing times on various devices to Greenwich annoying because of this - he likes to set his phone/watch time to 10 minutes early.

    Is this a generational thing?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,225
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    This is pure anecdata but all my American friends who have expressed an opinion - and they are 100% anti-Trump, generally liberal - say they are ‘ashamed’ by the Afghan situation. That’s their word

    Perhaps more interestingly, they are starting the conversation. eg ‘Are you watching the news from Afghanistan?’

    This must hurt Biden? But my friends might be unrepresentative

    I think the manner of the withdrawal that has put Americans at risk is what will hurt him the most. Extending the withdrawal timeframe by an extra month to continue getting thousands of people out of the country would have been a no cost option but he chose to push the withdrawal date up and that has had pretty awful consequences with people now trapped and the US government hoping that the Taliban won't execute or ransom them.
    Check the MSNBC interview I linked below. It’s devastating for Biden. Heck, I’ll post it again


    https://twitter.com/whitneyleerob/status/1427386966685913092?s=21


    Apparently the full version is even more excoriating
    It's only my impression, but I've been struck at how many people who are often diametrically opposed over economic issues or Brexit are appalled by what has happened.
    My experience the same, even beyond Americans. The only difference is whether they blame Biden alone, a mix of Biden and Trump (probably the plurality) or the entirety of western foreign policy, since 2001, up to and including Biden and Trump

    But this sense of mournful shame is near-universal
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,569
    Turkey seems on board with the new regime.

    https://twitter.com/anadoluagency/status/1427549776623644697
    Turkey welcomes messages given by Taliban so far, says Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu..
    Turkey will continue to support Afghanistan's economic development, stability, peace, says Cavusoglu during joint press conference with Jordan's foreign minister


    Interestingly, Raab was on R4 this morning suggesting that we might increase our (non military) development aid to Afghanistan by 10% or so.
    (Contingent on regime behaviour, of course.)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,849

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Classic CNN....mostly peaceful protests again...

    CNN reporter dons burka to report on Taliban fighters in Kabul and says they 'seem friendly' despite chanting 'Death to America' and telling her to stand aside because she's a woman

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9899213/Bari-Weiss-hammers-Ted-Cruz-criticizing-CNN-reporter-Kabul-said-Taliban-friendly.html

    Classic selective editing:
    'They're just chanting death to America, but they seem friendly at the same time,' she said. 'It's utterly bizarre.

    And it wasn't a burka.
    PJ O'Rourke recounted being present at a Hezbollah rally, in Lebanon in the 80s. A young chap, in between chanting "Death To America" was asking him about the pros and cons of which American university to study dentistry at.
    Good one - but one does wonder how many of these type of stories from professional humorists are true.
    I met a couple of people at university in the UK, who would have fit the profile. "Death To The West, but first I need to go to Cocktail night - 2-for-1 on Thursdays at the Union..."
    Yes, I bet you did, Malmesbury. They seem to seek you out, those types.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,569
    Sandpit said:

    I am surprised Prof Peston hasn't been on the case....

    https://order-order.com/2021/08/17/fact-check-boris-sets-his-watch-12-minutes-fast-to-stop-being-late/

    I actually do something similar. Just 5 mins ahead. I find it useful particular in my car.

    My wife does that with her alarm clock, it’s about 10 minutes fast and she reckons it gives her extra time in the morning - as opposed to taking her a second to realise it’s the wrong time, and hitting snooze once more.

    The car clock adjusts itself from the RDS data stream, and I’m pretty much always looking at a computer or phone with ntp time. I make a point of keeping the (old-fashioned, mechanical) wristwatch adjusted to the phone time evey few days.

    For someone like the PM it’s perhaps not a bad idea, as his movements are all carefully choreographed and involve others. It would be rude to keep people waiting.
    Are people still on about this ? FFS.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited August 2021
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    This is pure anecdata but all my American friends who have expressed an opinion - and they are 100% anti-Trump, generally liberal - say they are ‘ashamed’ by the Afghan situation. That’s their word

    Perhaps more interestingly, they are starting the conversation. eg ‘Are you watching the news from Afghanistan?’

    This must hurt Biden? But my friends might be unrepresentative

    I think the manner of the withdrawal that has put Americans at risk is what will hurt him the most. Extending the withdrawal timeframe by an extra month to continue getting thousands of people out of the country would have been a no cost option but he chose to push the withdrawal date up and that has had pretty awful consequences with people now trapped and the US government hoping that the Taliban won't execute or ransom them.
    Check the MSNBC interview I linked below. It’s devastating for Biden. Heck, I’ll post it again


    https://twitter.com/whitneyleerob/status/1427386966685913092?s=21


    Apparently the full version is even more excoriating
    It's only my impression, but I've been struck at how many people who are often diametrically opposed over economic issues or Brexit are appalled by what has happened.
    My experience the same, even beyond Americans. The only difference is whether they blame Biden alone, a mix of Biden and Trump (probably the plurality) or the entirety of western foreign policy, since 2001, up to and including Biden and Trump

    But this sense of mournful shame is near-universal
    What is harmful for Biden administration is we all know Biden is an old duffer who struggles to remember what day of the week it is, but the Americans were voting for the "professionals" to be back in charge of the levers of power behind the scenes and they have clearly massively misjudged this whole situation.

    It was supposed to be the end of the total chaos caused by Team Trump watching something on Fox News and getting the wrong end of the stick, but demanding some crazy action to be taken.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,225
    edited August 2021

    Leon said:

    This is pure anecdata but all my American friends who have expressed an opinion - and they are 100% anti-Trump, generally liberal - say they are ‘ashamed’ by the Afghan situation. That’s their word

    Perhaps more interestingly, they are starting the conversation. eg ‘Are you watching the news from Afghanistan?’

    This must hurt Biden? But my friends might be unrepresentative

    Surely there are Albanian taxi drivers available in Athens?
    {enters black cab}

    "I 'ad that Najibullah in the back once. Proper gent. Tipped decent. Not like that Karzai. But what do you expect from a bloke named after a toilet....."
    No one tips cabbies in Athens anymore. Uber is hegemonic here, and super efficient - because all the ‘proper’ taxis have signed up for it, too

    They seem to like it. The driver I had yesterday - an ex pro gymnast from Tirane - was incredibly enthusiastic
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,735

    My father actually find the modern thing with auto-syncing times on various devices to Greenwich annoying because of this - he likes to set his phone/watch time to 10 minutes early.

    Is this a generational thing?

    My Dad did the same thing when he was working so he would make it to the bank before it shut each day
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    In the days before the US-led invasion of Afghanistan in 2001, a group of British defence and security officials took a top-secret trip to Moscow.

    The plan was to ask their Russian counterparts for advice on operating in the country given the former Soviet Union's doomed Afghan intervention that ended in defeat in 1989.

    The response was brutally prophetic.

    One person who was at the meeting recalled: "When the Russians stopped laughing they told us: 'You will make the same bad choice we did, you will go in, you will lose, many of you will die and then you'll be forced to retreat, which will be good for us. How can we help?'"


    https://news.sky.com/story/events-in-afghanistan-could-hardly-have-played-out-in-a-better-way-for-russia-12383629
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Sandpit said:

    I am surprised Prof Peston hasn't been on the case....

    https://order-order.com/2021/08/17/fact-check-boris-sets-his-watch-12-minutes-fast-to-stop-being-late/

    I actually do something similar. Just 5 mins ahead. I find it useful particular in my car.

    My wife does that with her alarm clock, it’s about 10 minutes fast and she reckons it gives her extra time in the morning - as opposed to taking her a second to realise it’s the wrong time, and hitting snooze once more.

    The car clock adjusts itself from the RDS data stream, and I’m pretty much always looking at a computer or phone with ntp time. I make a point of keeping the (old-fashioned, mechanical) wristwatch adjusted to the phone time evey few days.
    My father actually find the modern thing with auto-syncing times on various devices to Greenwich annoying because of this - he likes to set his phone/watch time to 10 minutes early.

    Is this a generational thing?
    Perhaps. You can set the time manually on most devices, but it’s usually buried in the settings and the default is to auto set.

    On an iPhone, it’s Settings>General>Date/Time>Set Automatically.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    I presume these Afghan refugees will be dispersed to Basingstoke, Guildford and Chelmsford.
    In the interests of "levelling up".
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,849

    Tonight, the A400M of the German Luftwaffe evacuated 7 people from Kabul.
    Yes, you read that correctly. SEVEN.
    Those 7 were at the airport and on the official embassy-list to be flown out.
    My heart breaks for those who helped our army for years and are now being left behind.

    https://twitter.com/JeannePlaumann/status/1427389030694629377?s=19

    Could Reuters be a better source than your random tweet? Merkel anticipates having to evacuate up to 10,000 Afghans with German connections:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/merkel-says-germany-must-focus-its-afghan-rescue-mission-2021-08-16/
    Come now, Germany taking in 270k Afghan refugees since 2001 is naught but shallow virtue signalling compared to the authentic, hearty 56k that the UK took in the same period. I’m sure this is similar flimflam from Merkel.
    It's one of 2 things viz Merkel:

    Few taken. Heartless. Utter scandal.

    Many taken. Reckless. Utter scandal.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    Sandpit said:

    I am surprised Prof Peston hasn't been on the case....

    https://order-order.com/2021/08/17/fact-check-boris-sets-his-watch-12-minutes-fast-to-stop-being-late/

    I actually do something similar. Just 5 mins ahead. I find it useful particular in my car.

    My wife does that with her alarm clock, it’s about 10 minutes fast and she reckons it gives her extra time in the morning - as opposed to taking her a second to realise it’s the wrong time, and hitting snooze once more.

    The car clock adjusts itself from the RDS data stream, and I’m pretty much always looking at a computer or phone with ntp time. I make a point of keeping the (old-fashioned, mechanical) wristwatch adjusted to the phone time evey few days.

    For someone like the PM it’s perhaps not a bad idea, as his movements are all carefully choreographed and involve others. It would be rude to keep people waiting.
    I don’t have any difficulty being on time with the watch set correctly. If I set my watch wrongly, I’d just make an adjustment in my mind.

    Having a PM that cannot be trusted to arrive on time without trying to kid himself by setting his watch wrongly is not a good look.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715

    Sandpit said:

    I am surprised Prof Peston hasn't been on the case....

    https://order-order.com/2021/08/17/fact-check-boris-sets-his-watch-12-minutes-fast-to-stop-being-late/

    I actually do something similar. Just 5 mins ahead. I find it useful particular in my car.

    My wife does that with her alarm clock, it’s about 10 minutes fast and she reckons it gives her extra time in the morning - as opposed to taking her a second to realise it’s the wrong time, and hitting snooze once more.

    The car clock adjusts itself from the RDS data stream, and I’m pretty much always looking at a computer or phone with ntp time. I make a point of keeping the (old-fashioned, mechanical) wristwatch adjusted to the phone time evey few days.
    My father actually find the modern thing with auto-syncing times on various devices to Greenwich annoying because of this - he likes to set his phone/watch time to 10 minutes early.

    Is this a generational thing?
    I enter appointments on my phone, with an alarm at the requisite time before. Eg if I've got to go on the computer, 10 minutes, if I've got to go out of the house driving or walking time.
    I do like to have my watch/clocks right.

    I've got an heirloom, from my great-grandfather, a traditional grandfather clock which need, of course, winding, and one has to be sure the weights are at the same point, otherwise it gains or loses. It has got a lovely chime, though.
  • Leon said:

    This is pure anecdata but all my American friends who have expressed an opinion - and they are 100% anti-Trump, generally liberal - say they are ‘ashamed’ by the Afghan situation. That’s their word

    Perhaps more interestingly, they are starting the conversation. eg ‘Are you watching the news from Afghanistan?’

    This must hurt Biden? But my friends might be unrepresentative

    Well, the situation is shaming. Western powers are leaving people in the lurch. Even if it's the least bad available option, it's shaming.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    edited August 2021
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    This is pure anecdata but all my American friends who have expressed an opinion - and they are 100% anti-Trump, generally liberal - say they are ‘ashamed’ by the Afghan situation. That’s their word

    Perhaps more interestingly, they are starting the conversation. eg ‘Are you watching the news from Afghanistan?’

    This must hurt Biden? But my friends might be unrepresentative

    I think the manner of the withdrawal that has put Americans at risk is what will hurt him the most. Extending the withdrawal timeframe by an extra month to continue getting thousands of people out of the country would have been a no cost option but he chose to push the withdrawal date up and that has had pretty awful consequences with people now trapped and the US government hoping that the Taliban won't execute or ransom them.
    Check the MSNBC interview I linked below. It’s devastating for Biden. Heck, I’ll post it again


    https://twitter.com/whitneyleerob/status/1427386966685913092?s=21


    Apparently the full version is even more excoriating
    It's only my impression, but I've been struck at how many people who are often diametrically opposed over economic issues or Brexit are appalled by what has happened.
    My experience the same, even beyond Americans. The only difference is whether they blame Biden alone, a mix of Biden and Trump (probably the plurality) or the entirety of western foreign policy, since 2001, up to and including Biden and Trump

    But this sense of mournful shame is near-universal
    Trump is as much to blame as Biden. The neo cons can certainly be blamed for thinking you can win wars on the cheap.

    America showed that it could establish stable societies in Germany, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, yet somehow dropped the ball later on.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,702
    dixiedean said:

    I presume these Afghan refugees will be dispersed to Basingstoke, Guildford and Chelmsford.
    In the interests of "levelling up".

    I think we all have a pretty good idea it will be Middlesbrough, Gateshead, Wolverhampton, Blackburn and places like that which will have them in cheap, poor quality, housing.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,459

    Tonight, the A400M of the German Luftwaffe evacuated 7 people from Kabul.
    Yes, you read that correctly. SEVEN.
    Those 7 were at the airport and on the official embassy-list to be flown out.
    My heart breaks for those who helped our army for years and are now being left behind.

    https://twitter.com/JeannePlaumann/status/1427389030694629377?s=19

    Could Reuters be a better source than your random tweet? Merkel anticipates having to evacuate up to 10,000 Afghans with German connections:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/merkel-says-germany-must-focus-its-afghan-rescue-mission-2021-08-16/
    "Random tweet"... that's a journalist with Bild talking about a featured story in the newspaper.
    A journalist with Bild with just 2,296 followers? That doesn't suggest many people use her as a source of reliable news. I prefer the Reuters article, thanks, without the anti-German rhetoric.
    Its a main story in the newspaper....1.7m follower account enough for you?

    https://twitter.com/BILD/status/1427551508325937185?s=19

    The story is getting a lot of attention on social media. Its not anti-German rhetoric, it is a major German newspaper asking what the hell is going on.
    No, Bild is just a far-right, anti-woke, now anti-Merkel rag. Rather AfD sympathetic. Like the Mail on steroids. Not a reliable source for anything.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,612
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Classic CNN....mostly peaceful protests again...

    CNN reporter dons burka to report on Taliban fighters in Kabul and says they 'seem friendly' despite chanting 'Death to America' and telling her to stand aside because she's a woman

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9899213/Bari-Weiss-hammers-Ted-Cruz-criticizing-CNN-reporter-Kabul-said-Taliban-friendly.html

    Classic selective editing:
    'They're just chanting death to America, but they seem friendly at the same time,' she said. 'It's utterly bizarre.

    And it wasn't a burka.
    PJ O'Rourke recounted being present at a Hezbollah rally, in Lebanon in the 80s. A young chap, in between chanting "Death To America" was asking him about the pros and cons of which American university to study dentistry at.
    Good one - but one does wonder how many of these type of stories from professional humorists are true.
    I met a couple of people at university in the UK, who would have fit the profile. "Death To The West, but first I need to go to Cocktail night - 2-for-1 on Thursdays at the Union..."
    Yes, I bet you did, Malmesbury. They seem to seek you out, those types.
    We used to have some quite heady discussion in the student union. The political debates were tremendous fun - at UCL there were quite a few Death To The West types. Complete with flags/t-shirts of various organisations - Hezbollah was a favourite.

    There were quite a few angry gents who definitely didn't like this country, despite being born here and identified heavily with Pakistan. Yet were completely non-plussed by the idea of actually living in Pakistan.

    The various societies they formed had a few worrying types (this was early 90s, before the problems really happened) and the ones who seemed to be doing it for a social thing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,569
    Sandpit said:

    Tonight, the A400M of the German Luftwaffe evacuated 7 people from Kabul.
    Yes, you read that correctly. SEVEN.
    Those 7 were at the airport and on the official embassy-list to be flown out.
    My heart breaks for those who helped our army for years and are now being left behind.

    https://twitter.com/JeannePlaumann/status/1427389030694629377?s=19

    There’s so many jokes there to be made, about both the Luftwaffe and the A400M - but seriously Germany, what the hell?

    Your name’s not on the list, so we’re not taking you, as even the Americans are cramming them in?

    Apparently there were supposed to be more diplomats and Germans on the flight, but they didn’t want to wait for them all to get to the airport!
    Here's the official account:
    Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, the defence minister, said the A400M transport plane undertook a “breakneck landing” on Monday evening. She said the main aim of the flight was to bring in German soldiers to secure the evacuation.

    “We have a very chaotic, dangerous and complex situation at the airport,” she told broadcaster ARD. “We had very little time, so we only took on board people who were on site.”...


    Given one of the US planes only got in the air after a couple of gunships cleared the runway of hundreds of people by flying low in front of it (and several people seem to have been killed trying to climb on), I'm reluctant to say she's wrong.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    edited August 2021

    Tonight, the A400M of the German Luftwaffe evacuated 7 people from Kabul.
    Yes, you read that correctly. SEVEN.
    Those 7 were at the airport and on the official embassy-list to be flown out.
    My heart breaks for those who helped our army for years and are now being left behind.

    https://twitter.com/JeannePlaumann/status/1427389030694629377?s=19

    Could Reuters be a better source than your random tweet? Merkel anticipates having to evacuate up to 10,000 Afghans with German connections:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/merkel-says-germany-must-focus-its-afghan-rescue-mission-2021-08-16/
    "Random tweet"... that's a journalist with Bild talking about a featured story in the newspaper.
    A journalist with Bild with just 2,296 followers? That doesn't suggest many people use her as a source of reliable news. I prefer the Reuters article, thanks, without the anti-German rhetoric.
    Its a main story in the newspaper....1.7m follower account enough for you?

    https://twitter.com/BILD/status/1427551508325937185?s=19

    The story is getting a lot of attention on social media. Its not anti-German rhetoric, it is a major German newspaper asking what the hell is going on.
    No, Bild is just a far-right, anti-woke, now anti-Merkel rag. Rather AfD sympathetic. Like the Mail on steroids. Not a reliable source for anything.
    Nah, Bild is The Sun, but German. To call it far right is ridiculous.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,255

    I am surprised Prof Peston hasn't been on the case....

    https://order-order.com/2021/08/17/fact-check-boris-sets-his-watch-12-minutes-fast-to-stop-being-late/

    I actually do something similar. Just 5 mins ahead. I find it useful particular in my car.

    Dammit, I was only joking when I suggested this yesterday as excuse/reason! I thought it more likely the photo had been staged (and not at all outraged by that: actually preferable in my view that he does a genuine contemplative minute's silence and then does the photo-op afterwards than has the photo-op going on while he's supposed to be thnking about the victims).
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,080
    edited August 2021
    ..
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,459

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    I think Starmer will perform significantly better than most think and has a good chance at being PM of a minority Government. My view is he would be a lot better at that than LOTO

    He will not get anywhere near office so we will never know.
    He's a lot more popular than Corbyn
    I would rather suggest that he isn't as aggressively unpopular as Corbyn was, with a large chunk of the electorate.

    Outside of a portion of Maomentum, Starmer isn't disliked, from what I can see in polling.

    He needs to come up with a pitch as to why people should vote *for* him, though.
    I concede.

    But this a much better starting point than Corbyn, Ed M
    Jeremy Corbyn went quickly from loved in 2017 to hated in 2019 and CCHQ will be hoping – and certainly planning – to effect the same transformation on the current leader. Soon after Starmer was elected, there were a number of posts here and elsewhere blaming his time as DPP for failure to prosecute or pursue various ne'er-do-wells and these may have been trial runs.
    Interestingly, his opponents on the ultra-left in the Labour party are trying to use his time in DPP to make him out to be some kind of heartless oppressor of the poor/minorities.

    There is only one area in the DPP thing that could really hurt him - but I don't think that he would have been stupid enough to be connected to it.
    The “Rotherham problem”, or Jimmy Savile?
    It does not really matter if Starmer was involved or not. If the suggestion is made on social media, under the radar, who will even know to refute it?
    Unlike you to be so cynical. I think it does actually matter whether Starmer was involved or not. It would be nice to focus on the truth.
    Lots of things should matter: few things do. I expect CCHQ's fact-checking service will give them a clean bill of health.

    Twitter accuses Tories of misleading public with 'factcheck' foray
    Dominic Raab defends rebranding account during debate and adds: ‘no one gives a toss’

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/20/twitter-accuses-tories-of-misleading-public-in-factcheck-row
    Yes, I know. I'm old-fashioned and naive, I guess. I'd rather follow Michelle Obama's edict, though: when they go low, we should go high.
    Better in the long run. The eventual win counts for more then. The mandate is stronger. It's tempting to give some back, though, it really is. Eg the "Johnson Variant". Not great, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't hoping it would take off, like the "Surrender Act" did. But of course it didn't. In which case it's perhaps best not to go there in the 1st place.
    Johnson variant was incredibly school playground stuff. If you are trying to portray yourself as the serious grown up professional, its totally off brand.
    I agree. Almost as childish as calling Starmer Gordon Brittas.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Classic CNN....mostly peaceful protests again...

    CNN reporter dons burka to report on Taliban fighters in Kabul and says they 'seem friendly' despite chanting 'Death to America' and telling her to stand aside because she's a woman

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9899213/Bari-Weiss-hammers-Ted-Cruz-criticizing-CNN-reporter-Kabul-said-Taliban-friendly.html

    Classic selective editing:
    'They're just chanting death to America, but they seem friendly at the same time,' she said. 'It's utterly bizarre.

    And it wasn't a burka.
    PJ O'Rourke recounted being present at a Hezbollah rally, in Lebanon in the 80s. A young chap, in between chanting "Death To America" was asking him about the pros and cons of which American university to study dentistry at.
    Good one - but one does wonder how many of these type of stories from professional humorists are true.
    I met a couple of people at university in the UK, who would have fit the profile. "Death To The West, but first I need to go to Cocktail night - 2-for-1 on Thursdays at the Union..."
    Yes, I bet you did, Malmesbury. They seem to seek you out, those types.
    In fairness these types aren't unknown. Even though I am a liberal I do get irritated by other liberals who post on Facebook lots of marginal local green initiatives and then post their business class flight details for their hols on the other side of the planet. At least if you are going to be a hypocrite keep it secret. Lack of awareness!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    I hope PM Starmer will appoint Matt Western MP as Minister for Nimbyism. There's an overwhelming democratic mandate to keep Coventry's huddled masses out of Leamington:

    https://leamingtonobserver.co.uk/news/appeal-win-is-dark-day-for-democracy-says-warwick-and-leamington-mp/

    He sounds like either a fool or he's pandering to residents, or both. It's understandable that residents may think, or wish, that 'democracy' is the overriding factor in determining planning permission, but MPs know damn well it isn't.
  • kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    I think Starmer will perform significantly better than most think and has a good chance at being PM of a minority Government. My view is he would be a lot better at that than LOTO

    He will not get anywhere near office so we will never know.
    He's a lot more popular than Corbyn
    I would rather suggest that he isn't as aggressively unpopular as Corbyn was, with a large chunk of the electorate.

    Outside of a portion of Maomentum, Starmer isn't disliked, from what I can see in polling.

    He needs to come up with a pitch as to why people should vote *for* him, though.
    I concede.

    But this a much better starting point than Corbyn, Ed M
    Jeremy Corbyn went quickly from loved in 2017 to hated in 2019 and CCHQ will be hoping – and certainly planning – to effect the same transformation on the current leader. Soon after Starmer was elected, there were a number of posts here and elsewhere blaming his time as DPP for failure to prosecute or pursue various ne'er-do-wells and these may have been trial runs.
    Interestingly, his opponents on the ultra-left in the Labour party are trying to use his time in DPP to make him out to be some kind of heartless oppressor of the poor/minorities.

    There is only one area in the DPP thing that could really hurt him - but I don't think that he would have been stupid enough to be connected to it.
    The “Rotherham problem”, or Jimmy Savile?
    It does not really matter if Starmer was involved or not. If the suggestion is made on social media, under the radar, who will even know to refute it?
    Unlike you to be so cynical. I think it does actually matter whether Starmer was involved or not. It would be nice to focus on the truth.
    Lots of things should matter: few things do. I expect CCHQ's fact-checking service will give them a clean bill of health.

    Twitter accuses Tories of misleading public with 'factcheck' foray
    Dominic Raab defends rebranding account during debate and adds: ‘no one gives a toss’

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/20/twitter-accuses-tories-of-misleading-public-in-factcheck-row
    Yes, I know. I'm old-fashioned and naive, I guess. I'd rather follow Michelle Obama's edict, though: when they go low, we should go high.
    Better in the long run. The eventual win counts for more then. The mandate is stronger. It's tempting to give some back, though, it really is. Eg the "Johnson Variant". Not great, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't hoping it would take off, like the "Surrender Act" did. But of course it didn't. In which case it's perhaps best not to go there in the 1st place.
    Johnson variant was incredibly school playground stuff. If you are trying to portray yourself as the serious grown up professional, its totally off brand.
    I agree. Almost as childish as calling Starmer Gordon Brittas.
    Or Captain Hindsight? But why does this get a pass from that user?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am surprised Prof Peston hasn't been on the case....

    https://order-order.com/2021/08/17/fact-check-boris-sets-his-watch-12-minutes-fast-to-stop-being-late/

    I actually do something similar. Just 5 mins ahead. I find it useful particular in my car.

    My wife does that with her alarm clock, it’s about 10 minutes fast and she reckons it gives her extra time in the morning - as opposed to taking her a second to realise it’s the wrong time, and hitting snooze once more.

    The car clock adjusts itself from the RDS data stream, and I’m pretty much always looking at a computer or phone with ntp time. I make a point of keeping the (old-fashioned, mechanical) wristwatch adjusted to the phone time evey few days.

    For someone like the PM it’s perhaps not a bad idea, as his movements are all carefully choreographed and involve others. It would be rude to keep people waiting.
    Are people still on about this ? FFS.
    I think it is hilarious. I hope there are conspiracies being advanced in dark corners of the internet about it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,702

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    I think Starmer will perform significantly better than most think and has a good chance at being PM of a minority Government. My view is he would be a lot better at that than LOTO

    He will not get anywhere near office so we will never know.
    He's a lot more popular than Corbyn
    I would rather suggest that he isn't as aggressively unpopular as Corbyn was, with a large chunk of the electorate.

    Outside of a portion of Maomentum, Starmer isn't disliked, from what I can see in polling.

    He needs to come up with a pitch as to why people should vote *for* him, though.
    I concede.

    But this a much better starting point than Corbyn, Ed M
    Jeremy Corbyn went quickly from loved in 2017 to hated in 2019 and CCHQ will be hoping – and certainly planning – to effect the same transformation on the current leader. Soon after Starmer was elected, there were a number of posts here and elsewhere blaming his time as DPP for failure to prosecute or pursue various ne'er-do-wells and these may have been trial runs.
    Interestingly, his opponents on the ultra-left in the Labour party are trying to use his time in DPP to make him out to be some kind of heartless oppressor of the poor/minorities.

    There is only one area in the DPP thing that could really hurt him - but I don't think that he would have been stupid enough to be connected to it.
    The “Rotherham problem”, or Jimmy Savile?
    It does not really matter if Starmer was involved or not. If the suggestion is made on social media, under the radar, who will even know to refute it?
    Unlike you to be so cynical. I think it does actually matter whether Starmer was involved or not. It would be nice to focus on the truth.
    Lots of things should matter: few things do. I expect CCHQ's fact-checking service will give them a clean bill of health.

    Twitter accuses Tories of misleading public with 'factcheck' foray
    Dominic Raab defends rebranding account during debate and adds: ‘no one gives a toss’

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/20/twitter-accuses-tories-of-misleading-public-in-factcheck-row
    Yes, I know. I'm old-fashioned and naive, I guess. I'd rather follow Michelle Obama's edict, though: when they go low, we should go high.
    Better in the long run. The eventual win counts for more then. The mandate is stronger. It's tempting to give some back, though, it really is. Eg the "Johnson Variant". Not great, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't hoping it would take off, like the "Surrender Act" did. But of course it didn't. In which case it's perhaps best not to go there in the 1st place.
    Johnson variant was incredibly school playground stuff. If you are trying to portray yourself as the serious grown up professional, its totally off brand.
    You’d have thought Starmer would have learnt after that awful wallpaper photo op.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,080

    Tonight, the A400M of the German Luftwaffe evacuated 7 people from Kabul.
    Yes, you read that correctly. SEVEN.
    Those 7 were at the airport and on the official embassy-list to be flown out.
    My heart breaks for those who helped our army for years and are now being left behind.

    https://twitter.com/JeannePlaumann/status/1427389030694629377?s=19

    Could Reuters be a better source than your random tweet? Merkel anticipates having to evacuate up to 10,000 Afghans with German connections:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/merkel-says-germany-must-focus-its-afghan-rescue-mission-2021-08-16/
    "Random tweet"... that's a journalist with Bild talking about a featured story in the newspaper.
    A journalist with Bild with just 2,296 followers? That doesn't suggest many people use her as a source of reliable news. I prefer the Reuters article, thanks, without the anti-German rhetoric.
    Its a main story in the newspaper....1.7m follower account enough for you?

    https://twitter.com/BILD/status/1427551508325937185?s=19

    The story is getting a lot of attention on social media. Its not anti-German rhetoric, it is a major German newspaper asking what the hell is going on.
    No, Bild is just a far-right, anti-woke, now anti-Merkel rag. Rather AfD sympathetic. Like the Mail on steroids. Not a reliable source for anything.
    An awkward question. With a single bound he was free.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited August 2021

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    I think Starmer will perform significantly better than most think and has a good chance at being PM of a minority Government. My view is he would be a lot better at that than LOTO

    He will not get anywhere near office so we will never know.
    He's a lot more popular than Corbyn
    I would rather suggest that he isn't as aggressively unpopular as Corbyn was, with a large chunk of the electorate.

    Outside of a portion of Maomentum, Starmer isn't disliked, from what I can see in polling.

    He needs to come up with a pitch as to why people should vote *for* him, though.
    I concede.

    But this a much better starting point than Corbyn, Ed M
    Jeremy Corbyn went quickly from loved in 2017 to hated in 2019 and CCHQ will be hoping – and certainly planning – to effect the same transformation on the current leader. Soon after Starmer was elected, there were a number of posts here and elsewhere blaming his time as DPP for failure to prosecute or pursue various ne'er-do-wells and these may have been trial runs.
    Interestingly, his opponents on the ultra-left in the Labour party are trying to use his time in DPP to make him out to be some kind of heartless oppressor of the poor/minorities.

    There is only one area in the DPP thing that could really hurt him - but I don't think that he would have been stupid enough to be connected to it.
    The “Rotherham problem”, or Jimmy Savile?
    It does not really matter if Starmer was involved or not. If the suggestion is made on social media, under the radar, who will even know to refute it?
    Unlike you to be so cynical. I think it does actually matter whether Starmer was involved or not. It would be nice to focus on the truth.
    Lots of things should matter: few things do. I expect CCHQ's fact-checking service will give them a clean bill of health.

    Twitter accuses Tories of misleading public with 'factcheck' foray
    Dominic Raab defends rebranding account during debate and adds: ‘no one gives a toss’

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/20/twitter-accuses-tories-of-misleading-public-in-factcheck-row
    Yes, I know. I'm old-fashioned and naive, I guess. I'd rather follow Michelle Obama's edict, though: when they go low, we should go high.
    Better in the long run. The eventual win counts for more then. The mandate is stronger. It's tempting to give some back, though, it really is. Eg the "Johnson Variant". Not great, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't hoping it would take off, like the "Surrender Act" did. But of course it didn't. In which case it's perhaps best not to go there in the 1st place.
    Johnson variant was incredibly school playground stuff. If you are trying to portray yourself as the serious grown up professional, its totally off brand.
    I agree. Almost as childish as calling Starmer Gordon Brittas.
    Somebody is in a bad mood today.....of course the difference is I am not trying to convince the country I am a serious political heavyweight and want their vote, I post light hearted stuff mocking lots of piss poor politicians.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Classic CNN....mostly peaceful protests again...

    CNN reporter dons burka to report on Taliban fighters in Kabul and says they 'seem friendly' despite chanting 'Death to America' and telling her to stand aside because she's a woman

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9899213/Bari-Weiss-hammers-Ted-Cruz-criticizing-CNN-reporter-Kabul-said-Taliban-friendly.html

    Classic selective editing:
    'They're just chanting death to America, but they seem friendly at the same time,' she said. 'It's utterly bizarre.

    And it wasn't a burka.
    PJ O'Rourke recounted being present at a Hezbollah rally, in Lebanon in the 80s. A young chap, in between chanting "Death To America" was asking him about the pros and cons of which American university to study dentistry at.
    Good one - but one does wonder how many of these type of stories from professional humorists are true.
    I met a couple of people at university in the UK, who would have fit the profile. "Death To The West, but first I need to go to Cocktail night - 2-for-1 on Thursdays at the Union..."
    Yes, I bet you did, Malmesbury. They seem to seek you out, those types.
    We used to have some quite heady discussion in the student union. The political debates were tremendous fun - at UCL there were quite a few Death To The West types. Complete with flags/t-shirts of various organisations - Hezbollah was a favourite.

    There were quite a few angry gents who definitely didn't like this country, despite being born here and identified heavily with Pakistan. Yet were completely non-plussed by the idea of actually living in Pakistan.

    The various societies they formed had a few worrying types (this was early 90s, before the problems really happened) and the ones who seemed to be doing it for a social thing.
    At about the same time we had, in the hospital where I worked, a pre-registration student...... done his degree, need a approved practical year before qualifying as a pharmacist ...... who was what we'd call today an Islamist.
    He was quite hard work; had to keep him very focussed on pharmacy. He was succeeded in the staff room by a fundamentalist Christian!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,569
    Nigelb said:

    Turkey seems on board with the new regime.

    https://twitter.com/anadoluagency/status/1427549776623644697
    Turkey welcomes messages given by Taliban so far, says Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu..
    Turkey will continue to support Afghanistan's economic development, stability, peace, says Cavusoglu during joint press conference with Jordan's foreign minister


    Interestingly, Raab was on R4 this morning suggesting that we might increase our (non military) development aid to Afghanistan by 10% or so.
    (Contingent on regime behaviour, of course.)

    That has to be put in the context of the complete bollocks he was spouting though.
    ...“I think it is easy to say that with the benefit of hindsight, but the truth is you are always measuring a very fluid constellation matrix, if you like of risk factors, and that is the reality.”...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,612
    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Classic CNN....mostly peaceful protests again...

    CNN reporter dons burka to report on Taliban fighters in Kabul and says they 'seem friendly' despite chanting 'Death to America' and telling her to stand aside because she's a woman

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9899213/Bari-Weiss-hammers-Ted-Cruz-criticizing-CNN-reporter-Kabul-said-Taliban-friendly.html

    Classic selective editing:
    'They're just chanting death to America, but they seem friendly at the same time,' she said. 'It's utterly bizarre.

    And it wasn't a burka.
    PJ O'Rourke recounted being present at a Hezbollah rally, in Lebanon in the 80s. A young chap, in between chanting "Death To America" was asking him about the pros and cons of which American university to study dentistry at.
    Good one - but one does wonder how many of these type of stories from professional humorists are true.
    I met a couple of people at university in the UK, who would have fit the profile. "Death To The West, but first I need to go to Cocktail night - 2-for-1 on Thursdays at the Union..."
    Yes, I bet you did, Malmesbury. They seem to seek you out, those types.
    In fairness these types aren't unknown. Even though I am a liberal I do get irritated by other liberals who post on Facebook lots of marginal local green initiatives and then post their business class flight details for their hols on the other side of the planet. At least if you are going to be a hypocrite keep it secret. Lack of awareness!
    These weren't liberals. People from countries where Death To The West is what you chant at the government organised demos.

    Reactionary would describe their social policies, generally.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    justin124 said:

    - “… it is hard to see the Tories holding onto their GE2019 vote share north of the border based on Redfield’s SNP GB vote share of 5% compared with the 4% at GE2019. My guess is that half the current SCON seat total of 6 would be at risk if the election went according to this poll.”

    Yes Mike, that looks about right. If you pump the R&W figures into Baxter you get:

    SNP 55 seats (+7)
    SCon 3 seats (-3)
    SLab 1 seat (nc)
    SLD 0 seats (-4)

    However, that is hardly news. No, the most important Redfield finding was in fact this:

    - “Between Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer, who do you think best embodies the following characteristics:”

    Is in good physical and mental health
    Starmer 37%
    Johnson 27%
    DK 36%

    The LDs would manage at least 2 seats in Scotland.
    Yes, probably. If they’re wise enough and ruthless enough to abandon the other two (and East Dunbartonshire).

    They’re going to need razor-like focus.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    GSK has fixed the CureVac vaccine, it seems. The 2nd gen version using GSK's adjuvant produces a much, much better immune response than the 1st gen without it. In raw number terms from the preliminary animal trials the immunity should come out fairly similar to Moderna and Pfizer.

    It's a shame that GSK didn't partner with them in the first place and the government had to force them to do it after their own vaccine with Sanofi failed to launch. Still, 2022 looks good if one of the major global vaccine makers is back in the game.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    tlg86 said:
    Imagine sitting on the same bog where you know for a fact that Gove has strained and gurned to push out a shit. Chills the blood.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,583
    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    I presume these Afghan refugees will be dispersed to Basingstoke, Guildford and Chelmsford.
    In the interests of "levelling up".

    I think we all have a pretty good idea it will be Middlesbrough, Gateshead, Wolverhampton, Blackburn and places like that which will have them in cheap, poor quality, housing.
    More immigration in the places you have mentioned will inevitably make GBNews viewers even angrier. That is a bigger problem for Labour, even when it occurs on the Tories' watch.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,702
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    This is pure anecdata but all my American friends who have expressed an opinion - and they are 100% anti-Trump, generally liberal - say they are ‘ashamed’ by the Afghan situation. That’s their word

    Perhaps more interestingly, they are starting the conversation. eg ‘Are you watching the news from Afghanistan?’

    This must hurt Biden? But my friends might be unrepresentative

    I think the manner of the withdrawal that has put Americans at risk is what will hurt him the most. Extending the withdrawal timeframe by an extra month to continue getting thousands of people out of the country would have been a no cost option but he chose to push the withdrawal date up and that has had pretty awful consequences with people now trapped and the US government hoping that the Taliban won't execute or ransom them.
    Check the MSNBC interview I linked below. It’s devastating for Biden. Heck, I’ll post it again


    https://twitter.com/whitneyleerob/status/1427386966685913092?s=21


    Apparently the full version is even more excoriating
    It's only my impression, but I've been struck at how many people who are often diametrically opposed over economic issues or Brexit are appalled by what has happened.
    I’m not really because disagreements over political issues are different than what is a fundamentally human tragedy that is unfolding. There is a near uniform abhorrence at what Biden has done.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited August 2021

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    I think Starmer will perform significantly better than most think and has a good chance at being PM of a minority Government. My view is he would be a lot better at that than LOTO

    He will not get anywhere near office so we will never know.
    He's a lot more popular than Corbyn
    I would rather suggest that he isn't as aggressively unpopular as Corbyn was, with a large chunk of the electorate.

    Outside of a portion of Maomentum, Starmer isn't disliked, from what I can see in polling.

    He needs to come up with a pitch as to why people should vote *for* him, though.
    I concede.

    But this a much better starting point than Corbyn, Ed M
    Jeremy Corbyn went quickly from loved in 2017 to hated in 2019 and CCHQ will be hoping – and certainly planning – to effect the same transformation on the current leader. Soon after Starmer was elected, there were a number of posts here and elsewhere blaming his time as DPP for failure to prosecute or pursue various ne'er-do-wells and these may have been trial runs.
    Interestingly, his opponents on the ultra-left in the Labour party are trying to use his time in DPP to make him out to be some kind of heartless oppressor of the poor/minorities.

    There is only one area in the DPP thing that could really hurt him - but I don't think that he would have been stupid enough to be connected to it.
    The “Rotherham problem”, or Jimmy Savile?
    It does not really matter if Starmer was involved or not. If the suggestion is made on social media, under the radar, who will even know to refute it?
    Unlike you to be so cynical. I think it does actually matter whether Starmer was involved or not. It would be nice to focus on the truth.
    Lots of things should matter: few things do. I expect CCHQ's fact-checking service will give them a clean bill of health.

    Twitter accuses Tories of misleading public with 'factcheck' foray
    Dominic Raab defends rebranding account during debate and adds: ‘no one gives a toss’

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/20/twitter-accuses-tories-of-misleading-public-in-factcheck-row
    Yes, I know. I'm old-fashioned and naive, I guess. I'd rather follow Michelle Obama's edict, though: when they go low, we should go high.
    Better in the long run. The eventual win counts for more then. The mandate is stronger. It's tempting to give some back, though, it really is. Eg the "Johnson Variant". Not great, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't hoping it would take off, like the "Surrender Act" did. But of course it didn't. In which case it's perhaps best not to go there in the 1st place.
    Johnson variant was incredibly school playground stuff. If you are trying to portray yourself as the serious grown up professional, its totally off brand.
    I agree. Almost as childish as calling Starmer Gordon Brittas.
    Or Captain Hindsight? But why does this get a pass from that user?
    That's exactly the point....Boris use of this, like it or not, is his brand. Starmer is trying to cast himself as exactly the opposite. Vote for me, the grown up serious slightly dull politician who doesn't resort to funny names..Mr Forensic Detail.

    And then he does the silly wallpaper stunt and the Johnson variant. And its totally off brand. Where as Boris driving a JCB through a wall, is absolutely him.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Dura_Ace said:

    tlg86 said:
    Imagine sitting on the same bog where you know for a fact that Gove has strained and gurned to push out a shit. Chills the blood.
    I presumed it came from his mouth?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,612
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am surprised Prof Peston hasn't been on the case....

    https://order-order.com/2021/08/17/fact-check-boris-sets-his-watch-12-minutes-fast-to-stop-being-late/

    I actually do something similar. Just 5 mins ahead. I find it useful particular in my car.

    My wife does that with her alarm clock, it’s about 10 minutes fast and she reckons it gives her extra time in the morning - as opposed to taking her a second to realise it’s the wrong time, and hitting snooze once more.

    The car clock adjusts itself from the RDS data stream, and I’m pretty much always looking at a computer or phone with ntp time. I make a point of keeping the (old-fashioned, mechanical) wristwatch adjusted to the phone time evey few days.

    For someone like the PM it’s perhaps not a bad idea, as his movements are all carefully choreographed and involve others. It would be rude to keep people waiting.
    Are people still on about this ? FFS.
    I think it is hilarious. I hope there are conspiracies being advanced in dark corners of the internet about it.
    Well, if you look at the reflection of the watch in the mirror....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,583
    Dura_Ace said:

    tlg86 said:
    Imagine sitting on the same bog where you know for a fact that Gove has strained and gurned to push out a shit. Chills the blood.
    A vile picture, eclipsed only by the mental image of his former wife in the same pose.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,255
    edited August 2021
    Leon said:

    This is pure anecdata but all my American friends who have expressed an opinion - and they are 100% anti-Trump, generally liberal - say they are ‘ashamed’ by the Afghan situation. That’s their word

    Perhaps more interestingly, they are starting the conversation. eg ‘Are you watching the news from Afghanistan?’

    This must hurt Biden? But my friends might be unrepresentative

    I'm still not sure on this.

    Take Blair, he was genuinely popular, seen to be both competent and 'good' by many. Iraq shattered that. He was outed as a liar. People didn't like him any more and suddenly were open to alternatives, first Brown, then Cameron.

    Biden, his main selling point is not being Trump. I don't get the sense that he's massively popular or seen as likely to be a great president. What was that video? Perfectly adequate in the circumstances? He's likely seen to have cocked this up and to an extent, he has (although all options were quite bad and the decision was, to an exent, already in motion). But his main selling point of 'not Trump' remains.

    There is obviously the spectre of a terrorist attack that can be linked to this and that would be greatly damaging. Could easily lose him the election or lead to a challenge for the nomination, perhaps. He's also vulnerable to a sane GOP candidate, but that was always the case (and at present a sane GOP candidate does not look that likely - it seems set to be Trump or a Trump mini-me. If the GOP stick with Trump then Biden's main (his only, really?) selling point is intact. Would any of your anti-Trump friends vote for Trump versus Biden over this?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Classic CNN....mostly peaceful protests again...

    CNN reporter dons burka to report on Taliban fighters in Kabul and says they 'seem friendly' despite chanting 'Death to America' and telling her to stand aside because she's a woman

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9899213/Bari-Weiss-hammers-Ted-Cruz-criticizing-CNN-reporter-Kabul-said-Taliban-friendly.html

    Classic selective editing:
    'They're just chanting death to America, but they seem friendly at the same time,' she said. 'It's utterly bizarre.

    And it wasn't a burka.
    PJ O'Rourke recounted being present at a Hezbollah rally, in Lebanon in the 80s. A young chap, in between chanting "Death To America" was asking him about the pros and cons of which American university to study dentistry at.
    Good one - but one does wonder how many of these type of stories from professional humorists are true.
    I met a couple of people at university in the UK, who would have fit the profile. "Death To The West, but first I need to go to Cocktail night - 2-for-1 on Thursdays at the Union..."
    Yes, I bet you did, Malmesbury. They seem to seek you out, those types.
    In fairness these types aren't unknown. Even though I am a liberal I do get irritated by other liberals who post on Facebook lots of marginal local green initiatives and then post their business class flight details for their hols on the other side of the planet. At least if you are going to be a hypocrite keep it secret. Lack of awareness!
    These weren't liberals. People from countries where Death To The West is what you chant at the government organised demos.

    Reactionary would describe their social policies, generally.
    Yes I know. Just giving another example of lack of awareness.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,702

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    I think Starmer will perform significantly better than most think and has a good chance at being PM of a minority Government. My view is he would be a lot better at that than LOTO

    He will not get anywhere near office so we will never know.
    He's a lot more popular than Corbyn
    I would rather suggest that he isn't as aggressively unpopular as Corbyn was, with a large chunk of the electorate.

    Outside of a portion of Maomentum, Starmer isn't disliked, from what I can see in polling.

    He needs to come up with a pitch as to why people should vote *for* him, though.
    I concede.

    But this a much better starting point than Corbyn, Ed M
    Jeremy Corbyn went quickly from loved in 2017 to hated in 2019 and CCHQ will be hoping – and certainly planning – to effect the same transformation on the current leader. Soon after Starmer was elected, there were a number of posts here and elsewhere blaming his time as DPP for failure to prosecute or pursue various ne'er-do-wells and these may have been trial runs.
    Interestingly, his opponents on the ultra-left in the Labour party are trying to use his time in DPP to make him out to be some kind of heartless oppressor of the poor/minorities.

    There is only one area in the DPP thing that could really hurt him - but I don't think that he would have been stupid enough to be connected to it.
    The “Rotherham problem”, or Jimmy Savile?
    It does not really matter if Starmer was involved or not. If the suggestion is made on social media, under the radar, who will even know to refute it?
    Unlike you to be so cynical. I think it does actually matter whether Starmer was involved or not. It would be nice to focus on the truth.
    Lots of things should matter: few things do. I expect CCHQ's fact-checking service will give them a clean bill of health.

    Twitter accuses Tories of misleading public with 'factcheck' foray
    Dominic Raab defends rebranding account during debate and adds: ‘no one gives a toss’

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/20/twitter-accuses-tories-of-misleading-public-in-factcheck-row
    Yes, I know. I'm old-fashioned and naive, I guess. I'd rather follow Michelle Obama's edict, though: when they go low, we should go high.
    Better in the long run. The eventual win counts for more then. The mandate is stronger. It's tempting to give some back, though, it really is. Eg the "Johnson Variant". Not great, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't hoping it would take off, like the "Surrender Act" did. But of course it didn't. In which case it's perhaps best not to go there in the 1st place.
    Johnson variant was incredibly school playground stuff. If you are trying to portray yourself as the serious grown up professional, its totally off brand.
    I agree. Almost as childish as calling Starmer Gordon Brittas.
    Or Keith, or calling Johnson Bozo.

    Can’t say I’ve seen Starmer referred to as Brittass thigh.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,878

    HYUFD said:

    The latest Redfield voteshares of Tories 40%, Labour 36%, LDs 10% and SNP 5%, Greens 5% and Ref 3% gives Tories 317, Labour 246, SNP 55 and LDs 9.

    So the Tories short by 9 of a majority but still largest party and still with more seats than Labour, the SNP, the LDs, the Greens and PC combined.

    So it would really depend what the DUP decided to do and whether Jeffrey Donaldson was willing to make Starmer PM rather than Boris or not eg to accept or not closer alignment to the SM and CU for the whole UK with Starmer to remove the Irish Sea border

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1427299142666174465?s=20
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=40&LAB=36&LIB=10&Reform=3&Green=5&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=23.6&SCOTLAB=19.2&SCOTLIB=6&SCOTReform=0.3&SCOTGreen=1.5&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=47.5&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019base

    Boris has hardly done himself any favours with the way he has dealt with Northern Ireland on Brexit.
    Perhaps not, but the situation was used by both sides. In many ways its almost insoluble - to have no border but to be out of the customs area. You may argue we should have stayed bound to the EU for trade, but that over-rules the point of Brexit for many (rightly or wrongly).
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    How accurate are flight radar type websites for flights in and out of Kabul? It looked like a Turkish airforce a400 flew Kabul to Rawalpindi this morning. And 2 stratotankers are circling about. But would you turn off your callsign if you were actually heading in to land there?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited August 2021
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    I think Starmer will perform significantly better than most think and has a good chance at being PM of a minority Government. My view is he would be a lot better at that than LOTO

    He will not get anywhere near office so we will never know.
    He's a lot more popular than Corbyn
    I would rather suggest that he isn't as aggressively unpopular as Corbyn was, with a large chunk of the electorate.

    Outside of a portion of Maomentum, Starmer isn't disliked, from what I can see in polling.

    He needs to come up with a pitch as to why people should vote *for* him, though.
    I concede.

    But this a much better starting point than Corbyn, Ed M
    Jeremy Corbyn went quickly from loved in 2017 to hated in 2019 and CCHQ will be hoping – and certainly planning – to effect the same transformation on the current leader. Soon after Starmer was elected, there were a number of posts here and elsewhere blaming his time as DPP for failure to prosecute or pursue various ne'er-do-wells and these may have been trial runs.
    Interestingly, his opponents on the ultra-left in the Labour party are trying to use his time in DPP to make him out to be some kind of heartless oppressor of the poor/minorities.

    There is only one area in the DPP thing that could really hurt him - but I don't think that he would have been stupid enough to be connected to it.
    The “Rotherham problem”, or Jimmy Savile?
    It does not really matter if Starmer was involved or not. If the suggestion is made on social media, under the radar, who will even know to refute it?
    Unlike you to be so cynical. I think it does actually matter whether Starmer was involved or not. It would be nice to focus on the truth.
    Lots of things should matter: few things do. I expect CCHQ's fact-checking service will give them a clean bill of health.

    Twitter accuses Tories of misleading public with 'factcheck' foray
    Dominic Raab defends rebranding account during debate and adds: ‘no one gives a toss’

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/20/twitter-accuses-tories-of-misleading-public-in-factcheck-row
    Yes, I know. I'm old-fashioned and naive, I guess. I'd rather follow Michelle Obama's edict, though: when they go low, we should go high.
    Better in the long run. The eventual win counts for more then. The mandate is stronger. It's tempting to give some back, though, it really is. Eg the "Johnson Variant". Not great, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't hoping it would take off, like the "Surrender Act" did. But of course it didn't. In which case it's perhaps best not to go there in the 1st place.
    Johnson variant was incredibly school playground stuff. If you are trying to portray yourself as the serious grown up professional, its totally off brand.
    I agree. Almost as childish as calling Starmer Gordon Brittas.
    Or Keith, or calling Johnson Bozo.

    Can’t say I’ve seen Starmer referred to as Brittass thigh.
    I was gulity, as I think he looks and sounds like him...and he has a similar lecturing manner, while having not demonstrated any sensible solutions e.g. see his solution to vaccine passports, that is straight out of a Gordon Brittas improving some leisure centre procedure for booking the squash courts. Showing your membership card has now become filling in 3 forms and doing a pre game ECG test before.being allowed to play. Then wondering why the whole system has gone to pot.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748

    justin124 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I think Starmer will perform significantly better than most think and has a good chance at being PM of a minority Government. My view is he would be a lot better at that than LOTO

    He will not get anywhere near office so we will never know.
    He's a lot more popular than Corbyn
    I would rather suggest that he isn't as aggressively unpopular as Corbyn was, with a large chunk of the electorate.

    Outside of a portion of Maomentum, Starmer isn't disliked, from what I can see in polling.

    He needs to come up with a pitch as to why people should vote *for* him, though.
    He's strongly disliked by 2 groups. The Corbynite Left, as you say, and also a certain type of chippy Hard Leaver for whom he epitomizes the (imaginary but vividly real for them) Metropolitan Professional Remainer Class who tried to steal their Brexit.
    But the critical thing is the perception of the Labour Party not just its leader. To get a majority that needs to be transformed or the Tories utterly self-destruct and things go very badly wrong in next few years.
    There is just about no chance that LAB can win a majority. The loss of Scotland makes that almost impossible. The best for Starmer is a hung parliament with the Tories unable to find support
    I do strongly suspect though that if the polls in 2023/2024 are similar - or better for Labour - than the last two Redfield & Wilton polls, Labour will recover somewhat in Scotland to the extent of at least matching its 2017 result there. Many voters who plump for the SNP for Holyrood would switch back to Labour at Westminster to defeat the Tories across GB.
    It would be interesting to see SLab label the SNP as Tories' little helpers. Whether it would be effective is a separate question.
    It’s been attempted at pretty much every recent GE with 2010 being the only possible instance of it having an effect, though I think that was more to do with the bare arithmetic. It’s an old guy analog meme in a digital age (and I speak as someone rapidly approaching old guyness and with a preference for mechanical watches).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841

    New Zealand announce a 7 day lockdown in Auckland and 3 day throughout NZ on discovery of 1 delta variant covid in Auckland

    What are they going to do when they finally have to open their borders and they get plenty of cases?
    Apparently only when they have fully vaccinated the population

    If you are a Kiwi abroad wanting to return home you cannot do so before February 22
    The thing is even if / when fully vaxxed, they are still going to get plenty of cases. It will be interesting if they can move past it or they will continue to shut everything down.
    The use of "fully vaxxed" was interesting I thought, will vaccination be mandatory. Australasia has gone notably further than its western nation counterparts in it's approach to Covid-19.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    tlg86 said:
    Imagine sitting on the same bog where you know for a fact that Gove has strained and gurned to push out a shit. Chills the blood.
    I presumed it came from his mouth?
    You've conjured up a kink so ghastly I may have to take a lie down.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,132
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This is pure anecdata but all my American friends who have expressed an opinion - and they are 100% anti-Trump, generally liberal - say they are ‘ashamed’ by the Afghan situation. That’s their word

    Perhaps more interestingly, they are starting the conversation. eg ‘Are you watching the news from Afghanistan?’

    This must hurt Biden? But my friends might be unrepresentative

    Surely there are Albanian taxi drivers available in Athens?
    {enters black cab}

    "I 'ad that Najibullah in the back once. Proper gent. Tipped decent. Not like that Karzai. But what do you expect from a bloke named after a toilet....."
    No one tips cabbies in Athens anymore. Uber is hegemonic here, and super efficient - because all the ‘proper’ taxis have signed up for it, too

    They seem to like it. The driver I had yesterday - an ex pro gymnast from Tirane - was incredibly enthusiastic
    An Albanian cabbie? My.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,612
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Classic CNN....mostly peaceful protests again...

    CNN reporter dons burka to report on Taliban fighters in Kabul and says they 'seem friendly' despite chanting 'Death to America' and telling her to stand aside because she's a woman

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9899213/Bari-Weiss-hammers-Ted-Cruz-criticizing-CNN-reporter-Kabul-said-Taliban-friendly.html

    Classic selective editing:
    'They're just chanting death to America, but they seem friendly at the same time,' she said. 'It's utterly bizarre.

    And it wasn't a burka.
    PJ O'Rourke recounted being present at a Hezbollah rally, in Lebanon in the 80s. A young chap, in between chanting "Death To America" was asking him about the pros and cons of which American university to study dentistry at.
    Good one - but one does wonder how many of these type of stories from professional humorists are true.
    I met a couple of people at university in the UK, who would have fit the profile. "Death To The West, but first I need to go to Cocktail night - 2-for-1 on Thursdays at the Union..."
    Yes, I bet you did, Malmesbury. They seem to seek you out, those types.
    In fairness these types aren't unknown. Even though I am a liberal I do get irritated by other liberals who post on Facebook lots of marginal local green initiatives and then post their business class flight details for their hols on the other side of the planet. At least if you are going to be a hypocrite keep it secret. Lack of awareness!
    These weren't liberals. People from countries where Death To The West is what you chant at the government organised demos.

    Reactionary would describe their social policies, generally.
    Yes I know. Just giving another example of lack of awareness.
    Oh, that happens.

    The most ferocious defense of Communism I recall was by an antique Oxford don. He was crying about the fall of the USSR etc. While sitting in his study, lined with nice editions. In a lovely house just up the road from the college which had supported him all his life. Which made much of it's money from renting property......
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    I think Starmer will perform significantly better than most think and has a good chance at being PM of a minority Government. My view is he would be a lot better at that than LOTO

    He will not get anywhere near office so we will never know.
    He's a lot more popular than Corbyn
    I would rather suggest that he isn't as aggressively unpopular as Corbyn was, with a large chunk of the electorate.

    Outside of a portion of Maomentum, Starmer isn't disliked, from what I can see in polling.

    He needs to come up with a pitch as to why people should vote *for* him, though.
    I concede.

    But this a much better starting point than Corbyn, Ed M
    Jeremy Corbyn went quickly from loved in 2017 to hated in 2019 and CCHQ will be hoping – and certainly planning – to effect the same transformation on the current leader. Soon after Starmer was elected, there were a number of posts here and elsewhere blaming his time as DPP for failure to prosecute or pursue various ne'er-do-wells and these may have been trial runs.
    Interestingly, his opponents on the ultra-left in the Labour party are trying to use his time in DPP to make him out to be some kind of heartless oppressor of the poor/minorities.

    There is only one area in the DPP thing that could really hurt him - but I don't think that he would have been stupid enough to be connected to it.
    The “Rotherham problem”, or Jimmy Savile?
    It does not really matter if Starmer was involved or not. If the suggestion is made on social media, under the radar, who will even know to refute it?
    Unlike you to be so cynical. I think it does actually matter whether Starmer was involved or not. It would be nice to focus on the truth.
    Lots of things should matter: few things do. I expect CCHQ's fact-checking service will give them a clean bill of health.

    Twitter accuses Tories of misleading public with 'factcheck' foray
    Dominic Raab defends rebranding account during debate and adds: ‘no one gives a toss’

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/20/twitter-accuses-tories-of-misleading-public-in-factcheck-row
    Yes, I know. I'm old-fashioned and naive, I guess. I'd rather follow Michelle Obama's edict, though: when they go low, we should go high.
    Better in the long run. The eventual win counts for more then. The mandate is stronger. It's tempting to give some back, though, it really is. Eg the "Johnson Variant". Not great, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't hoping it would take off, like the "Surrender Act" did. But of course it didn't. In which case it's perhaps best not to go there in the 1st place.
    It's an annoying part of political discourse but to a degree inevitable so I try not to get too worked up by such things, except in egregious cases. Surrender Act was an unfair characterisation, but it was a mere political issue and if you win the fight to label it so, it's probably fair enough. Johnson Variant requires more than characterisation of a policy, it assigns personal responsibility to a major health issue, which even for those who genuinely believe he was at fault for its spread at the time, was probably a bridge too far for the public to mentally accept - failings in Covid response and the level of deaths, is not the same as being responsible for all of it, which is somewhat implied by that term. It failed the credibility test. Contrastingly, Bedroom tax or death tax were also misleading, but the core point that 'the gov is responsible for policy x, which is a bad policy' still works.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,726
    If the best polls at this stage of Ed Milibands time as LotO had become reality, he’d have been PM too
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,225
    edited August 2021
    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    This is pure anecdata but all my American friends who have expressed an opinion - and they are 100% anti-Trump, generally liberal - say they are ‘ashamed’ by the Afghan situation. That’s their word

    Perhaps more interestingly, they are starting the conversation. eg ‘Are you watching the news from Afghanistan?’

    This must hurt Biden? But my friends might be unrepresentative

    I'm still not sure on this.

    Take Blair, he was genuinely popular, seen to be both competent and 'good' by many. Iraq shattered that. He was outed as a liar. People didn't like him any more and suddenly were open to alternatives, first Brown, then Cameron.

    Biden, his main selling point is not being Trump. I don't get the sense that he's massively popular or seen as likely to be a great president. What was that video? Perfectly adequate in the circumstances? He's likely seen to have cocked this up and to an extent, he has (although all options were quite bad and the decision was, to an exent, already in motion). But his main selling point of 'not Trump' remains.

    The obviously the spectre of a terrorist attack that can be linked to this and that would be greatly damaging. Could easily lose him the election or lead to a challenge for the nomination, perhaps. He's also vulnerable to a sane GOP candidate, but that was always the case (and at present a sane GOP candidate does not look that likely - it seems set to be Trump or a Trump mini-me. If the GOP stick with Trump then Biden's main (his only, really?) selling point is intact. Would any of your anti-Trump friends vote for Trump versus Biden over this?
    A fair point. No, they would still vote Biden over Trump

    But they - my American friends - are genuinely ashamed and angry and I suspect they would like a new choice as Democrat candidate. From now on, every time they look at Biden they will think of the death and chaos at Kabul airport. The bodies falling from planes

    And this is just the start. What if the Taliban revert to type (I think they will) and start start stoning and beheading? What if they slaughter American allies in Kabul? What if - as you suggest - they export terror all over again?

    Chances of Biden standing again in 2024 are way down, now
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,132

    justin124 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I think Starmer will perform significantly better than most think and has a good chance at being PM of a minority Government. My view is he would be a lot better at that than LOTO

    He will not get anywhere near office so we will never know.
    He's a lot more popular than Corbyn
    I would rather suggest that he isn't as aggressively unpopular as Corbyn was, with a large chunk of the electorate.

    Outside of a portion of Maomentum, Starmer isn't disliked, from what I can see in polling.

    He needs to come up with a pitch as to why people should vote *for* him, though.
    He's strongly disliked by 2 groups. The Corbynite Left, as you say, and also a certain type of chippy Hard Leaver for whom he epitomizes the (imaginary but vividly real for them) Metropolitan Professional Remainer Class who tried to steal their Brexit.
    But the critical thing is the perception of the Labour Party not just its leader. To get a majority that needs to be transformed or the Tories utterly self-destruct and things go very badly wrong in next few years.
    There is just about no chance that LAB can win a majority. The loss of Scotland makes that almost impossible. The best for Starmer is a hung parliament with the Tories unable to find support
    I do strongly suspect though that if the polls in 2023/2024 are similar - or better for Labour - than the last two Redfield & Wilton polls, Labour will recover somewhat in Scotland to the extent of at least matching its 2017 result there. Many voters who plump for the SNP for Holyrood would switch back to Labour at Westminster to defeat the Tories across GB.
    It would be interesting to see SLab label the SNP as Tories' little helpers. Whether it would be effective is a separate question.
    It’s been attempted at pretty much every recent GE with 2010 being the only possible instance of it having an effect, though I think that was more to do with the bare arithmetic. It’s an old guy analog meme in a digital age (and I speak as someone rapidly approaching old guyness and with a preference for mechanical watches).
    Bit difficult too after 2014, when Labour were very much the t. l. h., in all seriousness.

    Mr Murray's disquisitions on tactical voting won't help, either (but probably won't make much difference outside Red Morningside).
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880

    Dura_Ace said:

    tlg86 said:
    Imagine sitting on the same bog where you know for a fact that Gove has strained and gurned to push out a shit. Chills the blood.
    A vile picture, eclipsed only by the mental image of his former wife in the same pose.
    Dinner last night: balti tiger prawn, lamb pasanda with one and a half naans and three pints of guinness.



  • Pulpstar said:

    New Zealand announce a 7 day lockdown in Auckland and 3 day throughout NZ on discovery of 1 delta variant covid in Auckland

    What are they going to do when they finally have to open their borders and they get plenty of cases?
    Apparently only when they have fully vaccinated the population

    If you are a Kiwi abroad wanting to return home you cannot do so before February 22
    The thing is even if / when fully vaxxed, they are still going to get plenty of cases. It will be interesting if they can move past it or they will continue to shut everything down.
    The use of "fully vaxxed" was interesting I thought, will vaccination be mandatory. Australasia has gone notably further than its western nation counterparts in it's approach to Covid-19.
    Out of interest I wonder what the level of vaccine hesitancy is among first nation people and pacific islanders in Australia / NZ, given that like black Americans in the not too distant past the state hasn't always been exactly what we shall call honest and above board with them.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    This is pure anecdata but all my American friends who have expressed an opinion - and they are 100% anti-Trump, generally liberal - say they are ‘ashamed’ by the Afghan situation. That’s their word

    Perhaps more interestingly, they are starting the conversation. eg ‘Are you watching the news from Afghanistan?’

    This must hurt Biden? But my friends might be unrepresentative

    I'm still not sure on this.

    Take Blair, he was genuinely popular, seen to be both competent and 'good' by many. Iraq shattered that. He was outed as a liar. People didn't like him any more and suddenly were open to alternatives, first Brown, then Cameron.

    Biden, his main selling point is not being Trump. I don't get the sense that he's massively popular or seen as likely to be a great president. What was that video? Perfectly adequate in the circumstances? He's likely seen to have cocked this up and to an extent, he has (although all options were quite bad and the decision was, to an exent, already in motion). But his main selling point of 'not Trump' remains.

    The obviously the spectre of a terrorist attack that can be linked to this and that would be greatly damaging. Could easily lose him the election or lead to a challenge for the nomination, perhaps. He's also vulnerable to a sane GOP candidate, but that was always the case (and at present a sane GOP candidate does not look that likely - it seems set to be Trump or a Trump mini-me. If the GOP stick with Trump then Biden's main (his only, really?) selling point is intact. Would any of your anti-Trump friends vote for Trump versus Biden over this?
    A fair point. No, they would still vote Biden over Trump

    But they - my American friends - are genuinely ashamed and angry and I suspect they would like a new choice as Democrat candidate. From now on, every time they look at Biden they will think of the death and chaos at Kabul airport. The bodies falling from planes

    And this is just the start. What if the Taliban revert to type (I think they will) and start start stoning and beheading? What if they slaughter American allies in Kabul? What if - as you suggest - they export terror all over again?

    Chances of Biden standing again in 2024 are way down, now
    Well at least that's a bit of a move from 'gone this week'.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited August 2021

    How accurate are flight radar type websites for flights in and out of Kabul? It looked like a Turkish airforce a400 flew Kabul to Rawalpindi this morning. And 2 stratotankers are circling about. But would you turn off your callsign if you were actually heading in to land there?

    They’re pretty accurate, because they’re using the same transponder technology that the air traffic control services use.

    Yes, the military can and do turn them off though, when on operations. They also do stuff like send two or three planes in formation with only one ‘squawking’.

    As US Mil are now running the field, they’ve probably got an old-fashioned ‘primary’ radar in place, which negates the need to squawk when on approach. In good weather, they use binoculars!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,583
    edited August 2021

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    I think Starmer will perform significantly better than most think and has a good chance at being PM of a minority Government. My view is he would be a lot better at that than LOTO

    He will not get anywhere near office so we will never know.
    He's a lot more popular than Corbyn
    I would rather suggest that he isn't as aggressively unpopular as Corbyn was, with a large chunk of the electorate.

    Outside of a portion of Maomentum, Starmer isn't disliked, from what I can see in polling.

    He needs to come up with a pitch as to why people should vote *for* him, though.
    I concede.

    But this a much better starting point than Corbyn, Ed M
    Jeremy Corbyn went quickly from loved in 2017 to hated in 2019 and CCHQ will be hoping – and certainly planning – to effect the same transformation on the current leader. Soon after Starmer was elected, there were a number of posts here and elsewhere blaming his time as DPP for failure to prosecute or pursue various ne'er-do-wells and these may have been trial runs.
    Interestingly, his opponents on the ultra-left in the Labour party are trying to use his time in DPP to make him out to be some kind of heartless oppressor of the poor/minorities.

    There is only one area in the DPP thing that could really hurt him - but I don't think that he would have been stupid enough to be connected to it.
    The “Rotherham problem”, or Jimmy Savile?
    It does not really matter if Starmer was involved or not. If the suggestion is made on social media, under the radar, who will even know to refute it?
    Unlike you to be so cynical. I think it does actually matter whether Starmer was involved or not. It would be nice to focus on the truth.
    Lots of things should matter: few things do. I expect CCHQ's fact-checking service will give them a clean bill of health.

    Twitter accuses Tories of misleading public with 'factcheck' foray
    Dominic Raab defends rebranding account during debate and adds: ‘no one gives a toss’

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/20/twitter-accuses-tories-of-misleading-public-in-factcheck-row
    Yes, I know. I'm old-fashioned and naive, I guess. I'd rather follow Michelle Obama's edict, though: when they go low, we should go high.
    Better in the long run. The eventual win counts for more then. The mandate is stronger. It's tempting to give some back, though, it really is. Eg the "Johnson Variant". Not great, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't hoping it would take off, like the "Surrender Act" did. But of course it didn't. In which case it's perhaps best not to go there in the 1st place.
    Johnson variant was incredibly school playground stuff. If you are trying to portray yourself as the serious grown up professional, its totally off brand.
    I agree. Almost as childish as calling Starmer Gordon Brittas.
    Or Captain Hindsight? But why does this get a pass from that user?
    That's exactly the point....Boris use of this, like it or not, is his brand. Starmer is trying to cast himself as exactly the opposite. Vote for me, the grown up serious slightly dull politician who doesn't resort to funny names..Mr Forensic Detail.

    And then he does the silly wallpaper stunt and the Johnson variant. And its totally off brand. Where as Boris driving a JCB through a wall, is absolutely him.
    But is Johnson as authentic as you claim? The Benny Hill salute tells me it is all a lie.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    tlg86 said:
    Imagine sitting on the same bog where you know for a fact that Gove has strained and gurned to push out a shit. Chills the blood.
    A vile picture, eclipsed only by the mental image of his former wife in the same pose.
    Dinner last night: balti tiger prawn, lamb pasanda with one and a half naans and three pints of guinness.



    'One Daily Mail columnist, one cup'
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Classic CNN....mostly peaceful protests again...

    CNN reporter dons burka to report on Taliban fighters in Kabul and says they 'seem friendly' despite chanting 'Death to America' and telling her to stand aside because she's a woman

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9899213/Bari-Weiss-hammers-Ted-Cruz-criticizing-CNN-reporter-Kabul-said-Taliban-friendly.html

    Classic selective editing:
    'They're just chanting death to America, but they seem friendly at the same time,' she said. 'It's utterly bizarre.

    And it wasn't a burka.
    PJ O'Rourke recounted being present at a Hezbollah rally, in Lebanon in the 80s. A young chap, in between chanting "Death To America" was asking him about the pros and cons of which American university to study dentistry at.
    Good one - but one does wonder how many of these type of stories from professional humorists are true.
    I met a couple of people at university in the UK, who would have fit the profile. "Death To The West, but first I need to go to Cocktail night - 2-for-1 on Thursdays at the Union..."
    Yes, I bet you did, Malmesbury. They seem to seek you out, those types.
    In fairness these types aren't unknown. Even though I am a liberal I do get irritated by other liberals who post on Facebook lots of marginal local green initiatives and then post their business class flight details for their hols on the other side of the planet. At least if you are going to be a hypocrite keep it secret. Lack of awareness!
    These weren't liberals. People from countries where Death To The West is what you chant at the government organised demos.

    Reactionary would describe their social policies, generally.
    Yes I know. Just giving another example of lack of awareness.
    Oh, that happens.

    The most ferocious defense of Communism I recall was by an antique Oxford don. He was crying about the fall of the USSR etc. While sitting in his study, lined with nice editions. In a lovely house just up the road from the college which had supported him all his life. Which made much of it's money from renting property......
    It's not so much conscious hypocrisy as a real cognitive dissonance. A real inability to comprehend that the people you fervently support would make life very nasty for you if they won.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Is Raab going to be moved?

    His performance in the past few days has been very, very poor.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,569

    Is Raab going to be moved?

    His performance in the past few days has been very, very poor.

    Generous assessment.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,849
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am surprised Prof Peston hasn't been on the case....

    https://order-order.com/2021/08/17/fact-check-boris-sets-his-watch-12-minutes-fast-to-stop-being-late/

    I actually do something similar. Just 5 mins ahead. I find it useful particular in my car.

    My wife does that with her alarm clock, it’s about 10 minutes fast and she reckons it gives her extra time in the morning - as opposed to taking her a second to realise it’s the wrong time, and hitting snooze once more.

    The car clock adjusts itself from the RDS data stream, and I’m pretty much always looking at a computer or phone with ntp time. I make a point of keeping the (old-fashioned, mechanical) wristwatch adjusted to the phone time evey few days.

    For someone like the PM it’s perhaps not a bad idea, as his movements are all carefully choreographed and involve others. It would be rude to keep people waiting.
    I don’t have any difficulty being on time with the watch set correctly. If I set my watch wrongly, I’d just make an adjustment in my mind.

    Having a PM that cannot be trusted to arrive on time without trying to kid himself by setting his watch wrongly is not a good look.
    I don't mind other people being late - so long as it's just a few minutes - but I can't stand being late myself. This is more of a vice than a virtue, though, because the only way to avoid ever being late is to allow a big buffer in settling off, upshot being I'm absurdly early for most things.

    Re the 'setting the watch wrong' trick, that'll only work if you don't know it's wrong. Haven't followed this particular piece of "Boris" myth-making nonsense but I'm assuming that's the idea. That his wife does this without telling him like he's some adolescent son to be managed.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Sean_F said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Classic CNN....mostly peaceful protests again...

    CNN reporter dons burka to report on Taliban fighters in Kabul and says they 'seem friendly' despite chanting 'Death to America' and telling her to stand aside because she's a woman

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9899213/Bari-Weiss-hammers-Ted-Cruz-criticizing-CNN-reporter-Kabul-said-Taliban-friendly.html

    Classic selective editing:
    'They're just chanting death to America, but they seem friendly at the same time,' she said. 'It's utterly bizarre.

    And it wasn't a burka.
    PJ O'Rourke recounted being present at a Hezbollah rally, in Lebanon in the 80s. A young chap, in between chanting "Death To America" was asking him about the pros and cons of which American university to study dentistry at.
    Good one - but one does wonder how many of these type of stories from professional humorists are true.
    I met a couple of people at university in the UK, who would have fit the profile. "Death To The West, but first I need to go to Cocktail night - 2-for-1 on Thursdays at the Union..."
    Yes, I bet you did, Malmesbury. They seem to seek you out, those types.
    In fairness these types aren't unknown. Even though I am a liberal I do get irritated by other liberals who post on Facebook lots of marginal local green initiatives and then post their business class flight details for their hols on the other side of the planet. At least if you are going to be a hypocrite keep it secret. Lack of awareness!
    These weren't liberals. People from countries where Death To The West is what you chant at the government organised demos.

    Reactionary would describe their social policies, generally.
    Yes I know. Just giving another example of lack of awareness.
    Oh, that happens.

    The most ferocious defense of Communism I recall was by an antique Oxford don. He was crying about the fall of the USSR etc. While sitting in his study, lined with nice editions. In a lovely house just up the road from the college which had supported him all his life. Which made much of it's money from renting property......
    It's not so much conscious hypocrisy as a real cognitive dissonance. A real inability to comprehend that the people you fervently support would make life very nasty for you if they won.
    It’s more likely that they simply think that, under communism, they’d be the ones being driven around in Zils.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,459

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    I think Starmer will perform significantly better than most think and has a good chance at being PM of a minority Government. My view is he would be a lot better at that than LOTO

    He will not get anywhere near office so we will never know.
    He's a lot more popular than Corbyn
    I would rather suggest that he isn't as aggressively unpopular as Corbyn was, with a large chunk of the electorate.

    Outside of a portion of Maomentum, Starmer isn't disliked, from what I can see in polling.

    He needs to come up with a pitch as to why people should vote *for* him, though.
    I concede.

    But this a much better starting point than Corbyn, Ed M
    Jeremy Corbyn went quickly from loved in 2017 to hated in 2019 and CCHQ will be hoping – and certainly planning – to effect the same transformation on the current leader. Soon after Starmer was elected, there were a number of posts here and elsewhere blaming his time as DPP for failure to prosecute or pursue various ne'er-do-wells and these may have been trial runs.
    Interestingly, his opponents on the ultra-left in the Labour party are trying to use his time in DPP to make him out to be some kind of heartless oppressor of the poor/minorities.

    There is only one area in the DPP thing that could really hurt him - but I don't think that he would have been stupid enough to be connected to it.
    The “Rotherham problem”, or Jimmy Savile?
    It does not really matter if Starmer was involved or not. If the suggestion is made on social media, under the radar, who will even know to refute it?
    Unlike you to be so cynical. I think it does actually matter whether Starmer was involved or not. It would be nice to focus on the truth.
    Lots of things should matter: few things do. I expect CCHQ's fact-checking service will give them a clean bill of health.

    Twitter accuses Tories of misleading public with 'factcheck' foray
    Dominic Raab defends rebranding account during debate and adds: ‘no one gives a toss’

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/20/twitter-accuses-tories-of-misleading-public-in-factcheck-row
    Yes, I know. I'm old-fashioned and naive, I guess. I'd rather follow Michelle Obama's edict, though: when they go low, we should go high.
    Better in the long run. The eventual win counts for more then. The mandate is stronger. It's tempting to give some back, though, it really is. Eg the "Johnson Variant". Not great, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't hoping it would take off, like the "Surrender Act" did. But of course it didn't. In which case it's perhaps best not to go there in the 1st place.
    Johnson variant was incredibly school playground stuff. If you are trying to portray yourself as the serious grown up professional, its totally off brand.
    I agree. Almost as childish as calling Starmer Gordon Brittas.
    Or Keith, or calling Johnson Bozo.

    Can’t say I’ve seen Starmer referred to as Brittass thigh.
    I was gulity, as I think he looks and sounds like him...and he has a similar lecturing manner, while having not demonstrated any sensible solutions e.g. see his solution to vaccine passports, that is straight out of a Gordon Brittas improving some leisure centre procedure for booking the squash courts. Showing your membership card has now become filling in 3 forms and doing a pre game ECG test before.being allowed to play. Then wondering why the whole system has gone to pot.
    Fair play for admitting your guilt!
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Turkey seems on board with the new regime.

    https://twitter.com/anadoluagency/status/1427549776623644697
    Turkey welcomes messages given by Taliban so far, says Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu..
    Turkey will continue to support Afghanistan's economic development, stability, peace, says Cavusoglu during joint press conference with Jordan's foreign minister


    Interestingly, Raab was on R4 this morning suggesting that we might increase our (non military) development aid to Afghanistan by 10% or so.
    (Contingent on regime behaviour, of course.)

    That has to be put in the context of the complete bollocks he was spouting though.
    ...“I think it is easy to say that with the benefit of hindsight, but the truth is you are always measuring a very fluid constellation matrix, if you like of risk factors, and that is the reality.”...
    He's been put in the rather awkward position of having to defend another countries fuck up and not wanting to insult that other country - I'm sure he can see what a cock up it is as well as anyone else, and we'd all like to pretend the british foreign secretary has clout in these matters, but he clearly doesn't.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,132

    Pulpstar said:

    New Zealand announce a 7 day lockdown in Auckland and 3 day throughout NZ on discovery of 1 delta variant covid in Auckland

    What are they going to do when they finally have to open their borders and they get plenty of cases?
    Apparently only when they have fully vaccinated the population

    If you are a Kiwi abroad wanting to return home you cannot do so before February 22
    The thing is even if / when fully vaxxed, they are still going to get plenty of cases. It will be interesting if they can move past it or they will continue to shut everything down.
    The use of "fully vaxxed" was interesting I thought, will vaccination be mandatory. Australasia has gone notably further than its western nation counterparts in it's approach to Covid-19.
    Out of interest I wonder what the level of vaccine hesitancy is among first nation people and pacific islanders in Australia / NZ, given that like black Americans in the not too distant past the state hasn't always been exactly what we shall call honest and above board with them.
    Doesn't sound like it: here and elsewhere the discrepancy is being attributed, at least partlu, to differential age structure.

    https://theconversation.com/the-real-challenge-to-covid-19-vaccination-rates-isnt-hesitancy-its-equal-access-for-maori-and-pacific-people-161676
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    Leon said:

    This is pure anecdata but all my American friends who have expressed an opinion - and they are 100% anti-Trump, generally liberal - say they are ‘ashamed’ by the Afghan situation. That’s their word

    Perhaps more interestingly, they are starting the conversation. eg ‘Are you watching the news from Afghanistan?’

    This must hurt Biden? But my friends might be unrepresentative

    Well, the situation is shaming. Western powers are leaving people in the lurch. Even if it's the least bad available option, it's shaming.
    I'm kinda inclined to agree with Biden on this one and think that the greatest shame is that Afghans, with some exceptions, wouldn't fight for their own freedom from the Taliban.

    This is not like the situation in Hong Kong, say, where they face the overwhelming might of the Chinese state. The Taliban have some outside assistance, they have unity of purpose, but they shouldn't have proven to be an irresistible foe for a country enjoying the invigorating impetus that generally comes with the achievement of freedom.

    I think abandoning the Kurds in Syria to Turkey and Assad was far more shameful. I find it hard not to think that Biden is only doing what Obama should have done twelve years ago.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    Is Raab going to be moved?

    His performance in the past few days has been very, very poor.

    And who could Boris replace him with - the simple fact is few people who are any good go into politics
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,569
    maaarsh said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Turkey seems on board with the new regime.

    https://twitter.com/anadoluagency/status/1427549776623644697
    Turkey welcomes messages given by Taliban so far, says Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu..
    Turkey will continue to support Afghanistan's economic development, stability, peace, says Cavusoglu during joint press conference with Jordan's foreign minister


    Interestingly, Raab was on R4 this morning suggesting that we might increase our (non military) development aid to Afghanistan by 10% or so.
    (Contingent on regime behaviour, of course.)

    That has to be put in the context of the complete bollocks he was spouting though.
    ...“I think it is easy to say that with the benefit of hindsight, but the truth is you are always measuring a very fluid constellation matrix, if you like of risk factors, and that is the reality.”...
    He's been put in the rather awkward position of having to defend another countries fuck up and not wanting to insult that other country - I'm sure he can see what a cock up it is as well as anyone else, and we'd all like to pretend the british foreign secretary has clout in these matters, but he clearly doesn't.
    Sounds as though he didn't realise his PS was taking the piss when he suggested those lines.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    Nigelb said:

    Is Raab going to be moved?

    His performance in the past few days has been very, very poor.

    Generous assessment.
    The heady days when PB toyed with him as a future PM/Con leader..
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited August 2021

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    I think Starmer will perform significantly better than most think and has a good chance at being PM of a minority Government. My view is he would be a lot better at that than LOTO

    He will not get anywhere near office so we will never know.
    He's a lot more popular than Corbyn
    I would rather suggest that he isn't as aggressively unpopular as Corbyn was, with a large chunk of the electorate.

    Outside of a portion of Maomentum, Starmer isn't disliked, from what I can see in polling.

    He needs to come up with a pitch as to why people should vote *for* him, though.
    I concede.

    But this a much better starting point than Corbyn, Ed M
    Jeremy Corbyn went quickly from loved in 2017 to hated in 2019 and CCHQ will be hoping – and certainly planning – to effect the same transformation on the current leader. Soon after Starmer was elected, there were a number of posts here and elsewhere blaming his time as DPP for failure to prosecute or pursue various ne'er-do-wells and these may have been trial runs.
    Interestingly, his opponents on the ultra-left in the Labour party are trying to use his time in DPP to make him out to be some kind of heartless oppressor of the poor/minorities.

    There is only one area in the DPP thing that could really hurt him - but I don't think that he would have been stupid enough to be connected to it.
    The “Rotherham problem”, or Jimmy Savile?
    It does not really matter if Starmer was involved or not. If the suggestion is made on social media, under the radar, who will even know to refute it?
    Unlike you to be so cynical. I think it does actually matter whether Starmer was involved or not. It would be nice to focus on the truth.
    Lots of things should matter: few things do. I expect CCHQ's fact-checking service will give them a clean bill of health.

    Twitter accuses Tories of misleading public with 'factcheck' foray
    Dominic Raab defends rebranding account during debate and adds: ‘no one gives a toss’

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/20/twitter-accuses-tories-of-misleading-public-in-factcheck-row
    Yes, I know. I'm old-fashioned and naive, I guess. I'd rather follow Michelle Obama's edict, though: when they go low, we should go high.
    Better in the long run. The eventual win counts for more then. The mandate is stronger. It's tempting to give some back, though, it really is. Eg the "Johnson Variant". Not great, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't hoping it would take off, like the "Surrender Act" did. But of course it didn't. In which case it's perhaps best not to go there in the 1st place.
    Johnson variant was incredibly school playground stuff. If you are trying to portray yourself as the serious grown up professional, its totally off brand.
    I agree. Almost as childish as calling Starmer Gordon Brittas.
    Or Captain Hindsight? But why does this get a pass from that user?
    That's exactly the point....Boris use of this, like it or not, is his brand. Starmer is trying to cast himself as exactly the opposite. Vote for me, the grown up serious slightly dull politician who doesn't resort to funny names..Mr Forensic Detail.

    And then he does the silly wallpaper stunt and the Johnson variant. And its totally off brand. Where as Boris driving a JCB through a wall, is absolutely him.
    But is Johnson as authentic as you claim? The Benny Hill salute tells me it is all a lie.
    I am not claiming authentic, I said its a brand.....the reality of many brands aren't quite what they like to project via their PR / advertising.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    Leon said:

    This is pure anecdata but all my American friends who have expressed an opinion - and they are 100% anti-Trump, generally liberal - say they are ‘ashamed’ by the Afghan situation. That’s their word

    Perhaps more interestingly, they are starting the conversation. eg ‘Are you watching the news from Afghanistan?’

    This must hurt Biden? But my friends might be unrepresentative

    Well, the situation is shaming. Western powers are leaving people in the lurch. Even if it's the least bad available option, it's shaming.
    I'm kinda inclined to agree with Biden on this one and think that the greatest shame is that Afghans, with some exceptions, wouldn't fight for their own freedom from the Taliban.

    This is not like the situation in Hong Kong, say, where they face the overwhelming might of the Chinese state. The Taliban have some outside assistance, they have unity of purpose, but they shouldn't have proven to be an irresistible foe for a country enjoying the invigorating impetus that generally comes with the achievement of freedom.

    I think abandoning the Kurds in Syria to Turkey and Assad was far more shameful. I find it hard not to think that Biden is only doing what Obama should have done twelve years ago.
    I think it's like people throwing in the towel to the Khmer Rouge. People were terrified of their cruelty (with good reason), disillusioned with their own government, weary of war, but just hoped for the best. I just hope the Taliban won't be the Khmer Rouge.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Is Raab going to be moved?

    His performance in the past few days has been very, very poor.

    He could have First Secretary of State removed at least. Clips his wings without moving him.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,849

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    I presume these Afghan refugees will be dispersed to Basingstoke, Guildford and Chelmsford.
    In the interests of "levelling up".

    I think we all have a pretty good idea it will be Middlesbrough, Gateshead, Wolverhampton, Blackburn and places like that which will have them in cheap, poor quality, housing.
    More immigration in the places you have mentioned will inevitably make GBNews viewers even angrier. That is a bigger problem for Labour, even when it occurs on the Tories' watch.
    Yes, it's hard to see circumstances where Immigration could play for Labour. Which is a problem, it being firmly established now as a top 3 issue for voters.
This discussion has been closed.