‘The World Health Organization has announced it is setting up a new group to trace Covid’s origins, seeking to end what it called “political point scoring” that had hampered investigations. It comes as Danish scientist Peter Ben Embarek, who led the original international mission to Wuhan, unexpectedly suggested in a documentary released yesterday that Covid’s patient zero could be a lab employee infected while collecting bat coronavirus samples.’
Is NigelB literally the last PB-er pimping out the ‘it came from a bat in a soup in the market’ bollocks?
An employee getting bitten while collecting samples in a cave is not the lab-leak theory. Admittedly, it has been suggested that Chinese obstruction prevented full exploration of the lab-leak hypothesis, but this is not it.
Yes it fucking is
A lab worker researching novel bat Coronaviruses for a specialized lab set up to research novel bat coronaviruses who then brings it back to the city where the same lab does the research - that’s a lab leak
It leaked because of science and labs. It was it not some ‘natural’ leap from a fucking pangolin to a peasant
This is goal post shifting on the most heroic level
A lab leak would be dropping a test tube in the lab, releasing a virus that had been stored at the lab. This is not that.
lol
You have not read the article then, or other coverage, that states pretty clearly that the lab-leak investigation was effectively blocked by China. This is an alternative theory. Separate still is the market theory.
Oh I did read that and have read plenty of other stuff on the subject, and I think it's not unlikely it came from the lab. But my lol was for your literal description of a lab leak.
That is, in essence, the lab leak theory proposed over the last several months. An inadvertent leak of a stored virus in a lab that may or may not have been appropriately biosecure. Not totally removed from the smallpox leak in Birmingham a few decades back.
If that were true (as it may be) isn't the big question how the stored virus got there, whether it was collected in the wild or created in the lab?
I can see this argument re casual sex in the Internet age. But there is still the same men to women ratio for long term relationships. So why should there be men left on the shelf?
Well it’s 105:100 so at least 1 in 21 men will by definition be single at any one time.
But aren't the extra 5 (in 105) all >70 years old?
Other way round. 105 boys are born for every 100 girls. I guess for the population as a whole there probably are more women. But that’s no consolation when the surplus women are drawing a pension!
Am I right in thinking this incel guy was originally from the US?
The incel movement is from the US. The bloke who shot up half of Plymouth had a mild west country accent in the video extract I saw.
This incel thing might be a red herring, especially if Davison's original plan was to kill only his mother. The following murders seem to have been random killings after chance encounters.
Arsenal supporters leaving with near 10 minutes to play including injury time
I one time I left a game early, my team scored two screamers in the last 10 mins. I could hear the cheers are I was getting in my car nearly a mile away.
Re. the Plymouth shootings: * it seems the incel scene tanks some men up to have the kind of attitude that can explode in such murderous attacks - this is not the first time; * it is clear to those who don't know the scene that much of what is being written about it today by "experts" is gobbledegook, which is presumably even clearer to those who do know it; * what the hell is wrong with men who choose to gather with other incel men and moan about how bad it is to be an incel rather than going out and meeting women?
Crippling fear of rejection, self hatred, seeking external cause to rage against.
You’ve just described England’s mental breakdown.
Prominent expert on all things English from Sweden gives us the benefit of his wisdom. We are blessed.
Seriously, find yourself a hobby, some friends, a job, anything. Get a pet maybe. Your unrelenting obsession with denigrating anything and anyone English is deeply unhealthy. Exercise might be good.
Stuart Dickson’s visceral hatred of, and inferiority complex to, the English, reminds me a bit of Hitler’s anti-semitism. It is so bizarrely unhinged.
Many biographers have tried to explain WHY Hitler became so maniacally anti-Jewish. Was he dumped by a Jewish girlfriend? Did he feel outdone by the Jewish kids in Linz who got into art school where he failed? No theory really comprehends it, no historical incident explains it. The floridity is so outrageous
The odd thing is that, if you can ever get Dickson OFF the subject of Scot Nattery and English evilness, he can be quite civil, even engaging and diverting
I wonder if Hitler was the same. He’d meet up with his mates for a beer and they’d all agree beforehand ‘look, just don’t mention the Jews’!
Ah, fuck it, he’s a small minded knob. I let his derangements wind me up too easily when I really should be feeling pity. He can’t have much of a life.
He always strikes me as being somewhat civil. If a little obsessed.
MalcolmG OTOH is comedy gold. I suspect most people,just prod him for his Pavlovian responses.
‘The World Health Organization has announced it is setting up a new group to trace Covid’s origins, seeking to end what it called “political point scoring” that had hampered investigations. It comes as Danish scientist Peter Ben Embarek, who led the original international mission to Wuhan, unexpectedly suggested in a documentary released yesterday that Covid’s patient zero could be a lab employee infected while collecting bat coronavirus samples.’
Is NigelB literally the last PB-er pimping out the ‘it came from a bat in a soup in the market’ bollocks?
An employee getting bitten while collecting samples in a cave is not the lab-leak theory. Admittedly, it has been suggested that Chinese obstruction prevented full exploration of the lab-leak hypothesis, but this is not it.
Yes it fucking is
A lab worker researching novel bat Coronaviruses for a specialized lab set up to research novel bat coronaviruses who then brings it back to the city where the same lab does the research - that’s a lab leak
It leaked because of science and labs. It was it not some ‘natural’ leap from a fucking pangolin to a peasant
This is goal post shifting on the most heroic level
A lab leak would be dropping a test tube in the lab, releasing a virus that had been stored at the lab. This is not that.
lol
You have not read the article then, or other coverage, that states pretty clearly that the lab-leak investigation was effectively blocked by China. This is an alternative theory. Separate still is the market theory.
No, geoffw’s original response was correct and admirably cogent:
lol
PB's very own @Leon has posted many articles here about the lab leak hypothesis over the past several months. Perhaps you missed them.
I can see this argument re casual sex in the Internet age. But there is still the same men to women ratio for long term relationships. So why should there be men left on the shelf?
Because there is no economic need to get paired off any more (women have access to fulfilling work, and status, that they haven't had for a long time) and being single is a far preferable option for many women than being tied to some great hairy fool.
Surely the answer is to cease being a hairy fool, rather than typing misogynistic garbage and masturbating, before spree killing.
Re. the Plymouth shootings: * it seems the incel scene tanks some men up to have the kind of attitude that can explode in such murderous attacks - this is not the first time; * it is clear to those who don't know the scene that much of what is being written about it today by "experts" is gobbledegook, which is presumably even clearer to those who do know it; * what the hell is wrong with men who choose to gather with other incel men and moan about how bad it is to be an incel rather than going out and meeting women?
Crippling fear of rejection, self hatred, seeking external cause to rage against.
You’ve just described England’s mental breakdown.
Prominent expert on all things English from Sweden gives us the benefit of his wisdom. We are blessed.
Seriously, find yourself a hobby, some friends, a job, anything. Get a pet maybe. Your unrelenting obsession with denigrating anything and anyone English is deeply unhealthy. Exercise might be good.
Stuart Dickson’s visceral hatred of, and inferiority complex to, the English, reminds me a bit of Hitler’s anti-semitism. It is so bizarrely unhinged.
Many biographers have tried to explain WHY Hitler became so maniacally anti-Jewish. Was he dumped by a Jewish girlfriend? Did he feel outdone by the Jewish kids in Linz who got into art school where he failed? No theory really comprehends it, no historical incident explains it. The floridity is so outrageous
The odd thing is that, if you can ever get Dickson OFF the subject of Scot Nattery and English evilness, he can be quite civil, even engaging and diverting
I wonder if Hitler was the same. He’d meet up with his mates for a beer and they’d all agree beforehand ‘look, just don’t mention the Jews’!
Ah, fuck it, he’s a small minded knob. I let his derangements wind me up too easily when I really should be feeling pity. He can’t have much of a life.
I confess I find it pleasurable to wind him up when I’m bored. It’s probably a sin which I should abjure
Am I right in thinking this incel guy was originally from the US?
The incel movement is from the US. The bloke who shot up half of Plymouth had a mild west country accent in the video extract I saw.
This incel thing might be a red herring, especially if Davison's original plan was to kill only his mother. The following murders seem to have been random killings after chance encounters.
From the reports on the BBC and Guardian sites the 'incel thing' seems pretty central to the tragedy to me.
I can see this argument re casual sex in the Internet age. But there is still the same men to women ratio for long term relationships. So why should there be men left on the shelf?
Well it’s 105:100 so at least 1 in 21 men will by definition be single at any one time.
But that hasnt changed. Although we have lacked a war to tilt the scales.
Am I right in thinking this incel guy was originally from the US?
The incel movement is from the US. The bloke who shot up half of Plymouth had a mild west country accent in the video extract I saw.
This incel thing might be a red herring, especially if Davison's original plan was to kill only his mother. The following murders seem to have been random killings after chance encounters.
Weird....
On his Facebook profile, Davison, an apprentice crane operator, claims to be from Phoenix, Arizona.
I can see this argument re casual sex in the Internet age. But there is still the same men to women ratio for long term relationships. So why should there be men left on the shelf?
Well it’s 105:100 so at least 1 in 21 men will by definition be single at any one time.
But aren't the extra 5 (in 105) all >70 years old?
Other way round. 105 boys are born for every 100 girls. I guess for the population as a whole there probably are more women. But that’s no consolation when the surplus women are drawing a pension!
Yes of course, sorry. I was being even more than usually dumb.
Am I right in thinking this incel guy was originally from the US?
The incel movement is from the US. The bloke who shot up half of Plymouth had a mild west country accent in the video extract I saw.
This incel thing might be a red herring, especially if Davison's original plan was to kill only his mother. The following murders seem to have been random killings after chance encounters.
Weird....
On his Facebook profile, Davison, an apprentice crane operator, claims to be from Phoenix, Arizona.
I can see this argument re casual sex in the Internet age. But there is still the same men to women ratio for long term relationships. So why should there be men left on the shelf?
Well it’s 105:100 so at least 1 in 21 men will by definition be single at any one time.
But aren't the extra 5 (in 105) all >70 years old?
No, I think females are over represented in live births, except in countries where sex selective abortions happen.
I think there are more gay men than lesbians too, so the numbers are a bit mismatched, but not by much.
Am I right in thinking this incel guy was originally from the US?
The incel movement is from the US. The bloke who shot up half of Plymouth had a mild west country accent in the video extract I saw.
This incel thing might be a red herring, especially if Davison's original plan was to kill only his mother. The following murders seem to have been random killings after chance encounters.
Weird....
On his Facebook profile, Davison, an apprentice crane operator, claims to be from Phoenix, Arizona.
Am I right in thinking this incel guy was originally from the US?
The incel movement is from the US. The bloke who shot up half of Plymouth had a mild west country accent in the video extract I saw.
This incel thing might be a red herring, especially if Davison's original plan was to kill only his mother. The following murders seem to have been random killings after chance encounters.
From the reports on the BBC and Guardian sites the 'incel thing' seems pretty central to the tragedy to me.
The incel thing is being made a central part of the story but I cannot immediately see why you'd murder your mother because you could not find a girlfriend. The other murders seem to have been wrong place, wrong time.
Is the whole incel thing a subsection of the wider societial issue of the likes of social media boostering all these so called influencers appearing to have the perfect look, the perfect life, endless money, all the latest gear?
Back in the day you compared yourself with your mates and perhaps the old person you knew that perhaps had a flash car etc.
Now the lives of the rich is all out there to see and then you have all these fake influencer who make it apper they also have this perfect life.
An example of this is when I was building my home gym I did a load of research of which kit to buy. My social media even to this day is packed with steroid jacked men as clearly big tech super brain algorithms has equated me wanting gym kit with wanting to see endless pictures of roided up men.
It's a combination of two effects:
1) Men will marry up or down in economic status, but women insist on marrying equal or up.
2) Women now have the same access to economic opportunity as men, at least up to the age of 30 by which time most couples pair up.
The result is a surplus of unattached men at the low end of economic status and a surplus of women at the high end.
The second point i think is very pertinent. Mrs U has some single female friends, who are intelligent and self sufficient, they regularly complain about going on dates via apps and the men aren't successful or ambitious enough for them.
It isn't solely about the money, they aren't looking for a multi-millionaire so they can pack it all in and live a life of luxury, but they want somebody who is driven like them and can enjoy nicer things in life....but they absolutely don't want to be funding the man to do this, it has to be equal. They aren't interested in a nice guy who works in the supermarket and earns minimum wage.
Where as we know men will do this.
To be fair on women, there are a lot of unlovable men, and an unlovable man without even the compensation of money or other charm seems a lot worse than being single.
Who in their right mind would date these incels?
There is much commentary on here tonight about the Plymouth shooter. To be honest his behaviour was incomprehensible. Not just mentally deranged but an ****hole too.
My question is, who the **** needs to be licenced to use a pump action shotgun anyway?
First game for Brentford in top flight in 70 odd years. And they are 2-0 up.
Not a bad side Brentford. Leicester had a very tough cup game against them, last season I think. Hard working and solid. I think they will be found out as the season goes on, but no mugs.
Is the whole incel thing a subsection of the wider societial issue of the likes of social media boostering all these so called influencers appearing to have the perfect look, the perfect life, endless money, all the latest gear?
Back in the day you compared yourself with your mates and perhaps the old person you knew that perhaps had a flash car etc.
Now the lives of the rich is all out there to see and then you have all these fake influencer who make it apper they also have this perfect life.
An example of this is when I was building my home gym I did a load of research of which kit to buy. My social media even to this day is packed with steroid jacked men as clearly big tech super brain algorithms has equated me wanting gym kit with wanting to see endless pictures of roided up men.
It's a combination of two effects:
1) Men will marry up or down in economic status, but women insist on marrying equal or up.
2) Women now have the same access to economic opportunity as men, at least up to the age of 30 by which time most couples pair up.
The result is a surplus of unattached men at the low end of economic status and a surplus of women at the high end.
The second point i think is very pertinent. Mrs U has some single female friends, who are intelligent and self sufficient, they regularly complain about going on dates via apps and the men aren't successful or ambitious enough for them.
It isn't solely about the money, they aren't looking for a multi-millionaire so they can pack it all in and live a life of luxury, but they want somebody who is driven like them and can enjoy nicer things in life....but they absolutely don't want to be funding the man to do this, it has to be equal. They aren't interested in a nice guy who works in the supermarket and earns minimum wage.
Where as we know men will do this.
To be fair on women, there are a lot of unlovable men, and an unlovable man without even the compensation of money or other charm seems a lot worse than being single.
Who in their right mind would date these incels?
There is much commentary on here tonight about the Plymouth shooter. To be honest his behaviour was incomprehensible. Not just mentally deranged but an ****hole too.
My question is, who the **** needs to be licenced to use a pump action shotgun anyway?
Indeed. Are such weapons actually legal in the UK? If so they surely shouldn't be.
Is the whole incel thing a subsection of the wider societial issue of the likes of social media boostering all these so called influencers appearing to have the perfect look, the perfect life, endless money, all the latest gear?
Back in the day you compared yourself with your mates and perhaps the old person you knew that perhaps had a flash car etc.
Now the lives of the rich is all out there to see and then you have all these fake influencer who make it apper they also have this perfect life.
An example of this is when I was building my home gym I did a load of research of which kit to buy. My social media even to this day is packed with steroid jacked men as clearly big tech super brain algorithms has equated me wanting gym kit with wanting to see endless pictures of roided up men.
It's a combination of two effects:
1) Men will marry up or down in economic status, but women insist on marrying equal or up.
2) Women now have the same access to economic opportunity as men, at least up to the age of 30 by which time most couples pair up.
The result is a surplus of unattached men at the low end of economic status and a surplus of women at the high end.
The second point i think is very pertinent. Mrs U has some single female friends, who are intelligent and self sufficient, they regularly complain about going on dates via apps and the men aren't successful or ambitious enough for them.
It isn't solely about the money, they aren't looking for a multi-millionaire so they can pack it all in and live a life of luxury, but they want somebody who is driven like them and can enjoy nicer things in life....but they absolutely don't want to be funding the man to do this, it has to be equal. They aren't interested in a nice guy who works in the supermarket and earns minimum wage.
Where as we know men will do this.
To be fair on women, there are a lot of unlovable men, and an unlovable man without even the compensation of money or other charm seems a lot worse than being single.
Who in their right mind would date these incels?
There is much commentary on here tonight about the Plymouth shooter. To be honest his behaviour was incomprehensible. Not just mentally deranged but an ****hole too.
My question is, who the **** needs to be licenced to use a pump action shotgun anyway?
Does it have any legitimate role? In sports shooting or in pest control (assuming he worked in that)?
Is the whole incel thing a subsection of the wider societial issue of the likes of social media boostering all these so called influencers appearing to have the perfect look, the perfect life, endless money, all the latest gear?
Back in the day you compared yourself with your mates and perhaps the old person you knew that perhaps had a flash car etc.
Now the lives of the rich is all out there to see and then you have all these fake influencer who make it apper they also have this perfect life.
An example of this is when I was building my home gym I did a load of research of which kit to buy. My social media even to this day is packed with steroid jacked men as clearly big tech super brain algorithms has equated me wanting gym kit with wanting to see endless pictures of roided up men.
It's a combination of two effects:
1) Men will marry up or down in economic status, but women insist on marrying equal or up.
2) Women now have the same access to economic opportunity as men, at least up to the age of 30 by which time most couples pair up.
The result is a surplus of unattached men at the low end of economic status and a surplus of women at the high end.
The second point i think is very pertinent. Mrs U has some single female friends, who are intelligent and self sufficient, they regularly complain about going on dates via apps and the men aren't successful or ambitious enough for them.
It isn't solely about the money, they aren't looking for a multi-millionaire so they can pack it all in and live a life of luxury, but they want somebody who is driven like them and can enjoy nicer things in life....but they absolutely don't want to be funding the man to do this, it has to be equal. They aren't interested in a nice guy who works in the supermarket and earns minimum wage.
Where as we know men will do this.
To be fair on women, there are a lot of unlovable men, and an unlovable man without even the compensation of money or other charm seems a lot worse than being single.
Who in their right mind would date these incels?
There is much commentary on here tonight about the Plymouth shooter. To be honest his behaviour was incomprehensible. Not just mentally deranged but an ****hole too.
My question is, who the **** needs to be licenced to use a pump action shotgun anyway?
Indeed. Are such weapons actually legal in the UK? If so they surely shouldn't be.
Am I right in thinking this incel guy was originally from the US?
The incel movement is from the US. The bloke who shot up half of Plymouth had a mild west country accent in the video extract I saw.
This incel thing might be a red herring, especially if Davison's original plan was to kill only his mother. The following murders seem to have been random killings after chance encounters.
Weird....
On his Facebook profile, Davison, an apprentice crane operator, claims to be from Phoenix, Arizona.
I don't know the truth, just heard sky news say this and thought he doesn't sound American. As Foxy says part of the weird fantasy?
I guess that we will know more in time, but he strikes me as a Wannabee Yank, with his desire for guns, Trumpist politics etc. It's as easy to be a fake American as anything else on the Internet.
Am I right in thinking this incel guy was originally from the US?
The incel movement is from the US. The bloke who shot up half of Plymouth had a mild west country accent in the video extract I saw.
This incel thing might be a red herring, especially if Davison's original plan was to kill only his mother. The following murders seem to have been random killings after chance encounters.
From the reports on the BBC and Guardian sites the 'incel thing' seems pretty central to the tragedy to me.
The incel thing is being made a central part of the story but I cannot immediately see why you'd murder your mother because you could not find a girlfriend. The other murders seem to have been wrong place, wrong time.
I think the Incel self pitying misogyny was just a part of a wider deranged world view. It features in a lot of the darker right wing areas of the internet and social media.
Is the whole incel thing a subsection of the wider societial issue of the likes of social media boostering all these so called influencers appearing to have the perfect look, the perfect life, endless money, all the latest gear?
Back in the day you compared yourself with your mates and perhaps the old person you knew that perhaps had a flash car etc.
Now the lives of the rich is all out there to see and then you have all these fake influencer who make it apper they also have this perfect life.
An example of this is when I was building my home gym I did a load of research of which kit to buy. My social media even to this day is packed with steroid jacked men as clearly big tech super brain algorithms has equated me wanting gym kit with wanting to see endless pictures of roided up men.
It's a combination of two effects:
1) Men will marry up or down in economic status, but women insist on marrying equal or up.
2) Women now have the same access to economic opportunity as men, at least up to the age of 30 by which time most couples pair up.
The result is a surplus of unattached men at the low end of economic status and a surplus of women at the high end.
The second point i think is very pertinent. Mrs U has some single female friends, who are intelligent and self sufficient, they regularly complain about going on dates via apps and the men aren't successful or ambitious enough for them.
It isn't solely about the money, they aren't looking for a multi-millionaire so they can pack it all in and live a life of luxury, but they want somebody who is driven like them and can enjoy nicer things in life....but they absolutely don't want to be funding the man to do this, it has to be equal. They aren't interested in a nice guy who works in the supermarket and earns minimum wage.
Where as we know men will do this.
To be fair on women, there are a lot of unlovable men, and an unlovable man without even the compensation of money or other charm seems a lot worse than being single.
Who in their right mind would date these incels?
There is much commentary on here tonight about the Plymouth shooter. To be honest his behaviour was incomprehensible. Not just mentally deranged but an ****hole too.
My question is, who the **** needs to be licenced to use a pump action shotgun anyway?
Indeed. Are such weapons actually legal in the UK? If so they surely shouldn't be.
Is the whole incel thing a subsection of the wider societial issue of the likes of social media boostering all these so called influencers appearing to have the perfect look, the perfect life, endless money, all the latest gear?
Back in the day you compared yourself with your mates and perhaps the old person you knew that perhaps had a flash car etc.
Now the lives of the rich is all out there to see and then you have all these fake influencer who make it apper they also have this perfect life.
An example of this is when I was building my home gym I did a load of research of which kit to buy. My social media even to this day is packed with steroid jacked men as clearly big tech super brain algorithms has equated me wanting gym kit with wanting to see endless pictures of roided up men.
It's a combination of two effects:
1) Men will marry up or down in economic status, but women insist on marrying equal or up.
2) Women now have the same access to economic opportunity as men, at least up to the age of 30 by which time most couples pair up.
The result is a surplus of unattached men at the low end of economic status and a surplus of women at the high end.
The second point i think is very pertinent. Mrs U has some single female friends, who are intelligent and self sufficient, they regularly complain about going on dates via apps and the men aren't successful or ambitious enough for them.
It isn't solely about the money, they aren't looking for a multi-millionaire so they can pack it all in and live a life of luxury, but they want somebody who is driven like them and can enjoy nicer things in life....but they absolutely don't want to be funding the man to do this, it has to be equal. They aren't interested in a nice guy who works in the supermarket and earns minimum wage.
Where as we know men will do this.
To be fair on women, there are a lot of unlovable men, and an unlovable man without even the compensation of money or other charm seems a lot worse than being single.
Who in their right mind would date these incels?
There is much commentary on here tonight about the Plymouth shooter. To be honest his behaviour was incomprehensible. Not just mentally deranged but an ****hole too.
My question is, who the **** needs to be licenced to use a pump action shotgun anyway?
Indeed. Are such weapons actually legal in the UK? If so they surely shouldn't be.
Am I right in thinking this incel guy was originally from the US?
The incel movement is from the US. The bloke who shot up half of Plymouth had a mild west country accent in the video extract I saw.
This incel thing might be a red herring, especially if Davison's original plan was to kill only his mother. The following murders seem to have been random killings after chance encounters.
Weird....
On his Facebook profile, Davison, an apprentice crane operator, claims to be from Phoenix, Arizona.
I don't know the truth, just heard sky news say this and thought he doesn't sound American. As Foxy says part of the weird fantasy?
I guess that we will know more in time, but he strikes me as a Wannabee Yank, with his desire for guns, Trumpist politics etc. It's as easy to be a fake American as anything else on the Internet.
Phoenix, Arizona:
It's a girl, sweet Lord, in a flatbed Ford, slowin' down to take a look at me
Am I right in thinking this incel guy was originally from the US?
The incel movement is from the US. The bloke who shot up half of Plymouth had a mild west country accent in the video extract I saw.
This incel thing might be a red herring, especially if Davison's original plan was to kill only his mother. The following murders seem to have been random killings after chance encounters.
Weird....
On his Facebook profile, Davison, an apprentice crane operator, claims to be from Phoenix, Arizona.
I don't know the truth, just heard sky news say this and thought he doesn't sound American. As Foxy says part of the weird fantasy?
I guess that we will know more in time, but he strikes me as a Wannabee Yank, with his desire for guns, Trumpist politics etc. It's as easy to be a fake American as anything else on the Internet.
Phoenix, Arizona:
It's a girl, sweet Lord, in a flatbed Ford, slowin' down to take a look at me
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
Is the whole incel thing a subsection of the wider societial issue of the likes of social media boostering all these so called influencers appearing to have the perfect look, the perfect life, endless money, all the latest gear?
Back in the day you compared yourself with your mates and perhaps the old person you knew that perhaps had a flash car etc.
Now the lives of the rich is all out there to see and then you have all these fake influencer who make it apper they also have this perfect life.
An example of this is when I was building my home gym I did a load of research of which kit to buy. My social media even to this day is packed with steroid jacked men as clearly big tech super brain algorithms has equated me wanting gym kit with wanting to see endless pictures of roided up men.
It's a combination of two effects:
1) Men will marry up or down in economic status, but women insist on marrying equal or up.
2) Women now have the same access to economic opportunity as men, at least up to the age of 30 by which time most couples pair up.
The result is a surplus of unattached men at the low end of economic status and a surplus of women at the high end.
The second point i think is very pertinent. Mrs U has some single female friends, who are intelligent and self sufficient, they regularly complain about going on dates via apps and the men aren't successful or ambitious enough for them.
It isn't solely about the money, they aren't looking for a multi-millionaire so they can pack it all in and live a life of luxury, but they want somebody who is driven like them and can enjoy nicer things in life....but they absolutely don't want to be funding the man to do this, it has to be equal. They aren't interested in a nice guy who works in the supermarket and earns minimum wage.
Where as we know men will do this.
To be fair on women, there are a lot of unlovable men, and an unlovable man without even the compensation of money or other charm seems a lot worse than being single.
Who in their right mind would date these incels?
There is much commentary on here tonight about the Plymouth shooter. To be honest his behaviour was incomprehensible. Not just mentally deranged but an ****hole too.
My question is, who the **** needs to be licenced to use a pump action shotgun anyway?
Indeed. Are such weapons actually legal in the UK? If so they surely shouldn't be.
I didn't realise you could own a 3-shot PA on a shotgun licence. Shotgun licences are of course far easier to obtain than a class 1 firearms licence and the onus is on the police to show why you shouldn't have one, rather than you show why you need one. With the right load they are very dangerous short-range weapons. Although probably not much more do than a traditional shotgun
Am I right in thinking this incel guy was originally from the US?
The incel movement is from the US. The bloke who shot up half of Plymouth had a mild west country accent in the video extract I saw.
This incel thing might be a red herring, especially if Davison's original plan was to kill only his mother. The following murders seem to have been random killings after chance encounters.
From the reports on the BBC and Guardian sites the 'incel thing' seems pretty central to the tragedy to me.
The incel thing is being made a central part of the story but I cannot immediately see why you'd murder your mother because you could not find a girlfriend. The other murders seem to have been wrong place, wrong time.
I think the Incel self pitying misogyny was just a part of a wider deranged world view. It features in a lot of the darker right wing areas of the internet and social media.
You murder your mother because you are incited to blame women for all your inadequacies.
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
Presumably because the allegation was found to be groundless and they had no cause to revoke his licence. The article states the weapon was held on a shotgun certificate, not a Class 1, and this sounds quite reasonable to me.
I can see this argument re casual sex in the Internet age. But there is still the same men to women ratio for long term relationships. So why should there be men left on the shelf?
Well it’s 105:100 so at least 1 in 21 men will by definition be single at any one time.
But aren't the extra 5 (in 105) all >70 years old?
No, I think females are over represented in live births, except in countries where sex selective abortions happen.
I think there are more gay men than lesbians too, so the numbers are a bit mismatched, but not by much.
It does strike me as interesting that this discussion is focused on proportions of sex assigned at birth rather than, say, recognising the agency of women to choose not to pair off.
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
Presumably because the allegation was found to be groundless and they had no cause to revoke his licence. The article states the weapon was held on a shotgun certificate, not a Class 1, and this sounds quite reasonable to me.
The Guardian understands Davison had to attend an anger management course to get his licence back, and months ago was classed by police as being fit again to possess the three-shot shotgun, despite earlier concerns.
In 2020 he had a row with two youths and was reported to police, but he had no previous offences and agreed to attend the course, sources said. The police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), will formally investigate the handling of his gun licence by police.
It is alleged the Plymouth shooter has his shotgun licence approved again last month, after it had been revoked in 2020
A gunman who killed his mother and four passersby, including a three-year-old girl, had his firearms licence revoked in December, but police reinstated it last month after he attended an anger management course.
Police will face an investigation over their dealings with Jake Davison, 22, who expressed sympathy for the “incel” movement and a keen interest in mass shootings. One resident from Plymouth, where the killing spree took place, said Davison’s family had sought treatment for his mental health issues.
This is just the kind of incident that could lead to a further tightening of firearms legislation, as happened post-Dunblane.
Oh so he did kill some randoms. The terrorism label is perhaps more appropriate in that case.
"Davison’s family had sought treatment for his mental health issues."
This is the real issue. Underfunded mental health services.
Starmer needs to attack on this one.
I think he’d have more success going on the gun licence angle. Might look a bit insensitive to imply that people with mental health problems might go and kill a lot of people.
I can see this argument re casual sex in the Internet age. But there is still the same men to women ratio for long term relationships. So why should there be men left on the shelf?
Well it’s 105:100 so at least 1 in 21 men will by definition be single at any one time.
But aren't the extra 5 (in 105) all >70 years old?
No, I think females are over represented in live births, except in countries where sex selective abortions happen.
I think there are more gay men than lesbians too, so the numbers are a bit mismatched, but not by much.
It does strike me as interesting that this discussion is focused on proportions of sex assigned at birth rather than, say, recognising the agency of women to choose not to pair off.
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
Presumably because the allegation was found to be groundless and they had no cause to revoke his licence. The article states the weapon was held on a shotgun certificate, not a Class 1, and this sounds quite reasonable to me.
The Guardian understands Davison had to attend an anger management course to get his licence back, and months ago was classed by police as being fit again to possess the three-shot shotgun, despite earlier concerns.
In 2020 he had a row with two youths and was reported to police, but he had no previous offences and agreed to attend the course, sources said. The police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), will formally investigate the handling of his gun licence by police.
Does having a row with two youths make you more likely to kill your mother and go postal? I don't think so. Just as the blanket "mental health" angle doesn't hold up either. A large proportion of the population has mental health issues at some time and it does not make them potentially murderers.
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
Presumably because the allegation was found to be groundless and they had no cause to revoke his licence. The article states the weapon was held on a shotgun certificate, not a Class 1, and this sounds quite reasonable to me.
The Guardian understands Davison had to attend an anger management course to get his licence back, and months ago was classed by police as being fit again to possess the three-shot shotgun, despite earlier concerns.
In 2020 he had a row with two youths and was reported to police, but he had no previous offences and agreed to attend the course, sources said. The police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), will formally investigate the handling of his gun licence by police.
Does having a row with two youths make you more likely to kill your mother and go postal? I don't think so. Just as the blanket "mental health" angle doesn't hold up either. A large proportion of the population has mental health issues at some time and it does not make them potentially murderers.
A tendency to anger probably means it's not a good idea you are allowed a gun.
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
Presumably because the allegation was found to be groundless and they had no cause to revoke his licence. The article states the weapon was held on a shotgun certificate, not a Class 1, and this sounds quite reasonable to me.
The Guardian understands Davison had to attend an anger management course to get his licence back, and months ago was classed by police as being fit again to possess the three-shot shotgun, despite earlier concerns.
In 2020 he had a row with two youths and was reported to police, but he had no previous offences and agreed to attend the course, sources said. The police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), will formally investigate the handling of his gun licence by police.
Does having a row with two youths make you more likely to kill your mother and go postal? I don't think so. Just as the blanket "mental health" angle doesn't hold up either. A large proportion of the population has mental health issues at some time and it does not make them potentially murderers.
An old psychiatric joke (with a kernel of truth to make the joke) is that a murderer is just an extroverted suicide.
Am I right in thinking this incel guy was originally from the US?
The incel movement is from the US. The bloke who shot up half of Plymouth had a mild west country accent in the video extract I saw.
This incel thing might be a red herring, especially if Davison's original plan was to kill only his mother. The following murders seem to have been random killings after chance encounters.
Weird....
On his Facebook profile, Davison, an apprentice crane operator, claims to be from Phoenix, Arizona.
I don't know the truth, just heard sky news say this and thought he doesn't sound American. As Foxy says part of the weird fantasy?
I guess that we will know more in time, but he strikes me as a Wannabee Yank, with his desire for guns, Trumpist politics etc. It's as easy to be a fake American as anything else on the Internet.
Phoenix, Arizona:
It's a girl, sweet Lord, in a flatbed Ford, slowin' down to take a look at me
may be part of the thought process.
Apparently the story Is a true recollection by Jackson Browne. But it was neither in Winslow, Arizona nor a flatbed Ford (but a small Datsun pickup). They were changed as they scanned better.
I can see this argument re casual sex in the Internet age. But there is still the same men to women ratio for long term relationships. So why should there be men left on the shelf?
Well it’s 105:100 so at least 1 in 21 men will by definition be single at any one time.
But aren't the extra 5 (in 105) all >70 years old?
No, I think females are over represented in live births, except in countries where sex selective abortions happen.
I think there are more gay men than lesbians too, so the numbers are a bit mismatched, but not by much.
It does strike me as interesting that this discussion is focused on proportions of sex assigned at birth rather than, say, recognising the agency of women to choose not to pair off.
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
Presumably because the allegation was found to be groundless and they had no cause to revoke his licence. The article states the weapon was held on a shotgun certificate, not a Class 1, and this sounds quite reasonable to me.
The Guardian understands Davison had to attend an anger management course to get his licence back, and months ago was classed by police as being fit again to possess the three-shot shotgun, despite earlier concerns.
In 2020 he had a row with two youths and was reported to police, but he had no previous offences and agreed to attend the course, sources said. The police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), will formally investigate the handling of his gun licence by police.
Does having a row with two youths make you more likely to kill your mother and go postal? I don't think so. Just as the blanket "mental health" angle doesn't hold up either. A large proportion of the population has mental health issues at some time and it does not make them potentially murderers.
So what does "hold up," in your view? Are you trying to head off a defence of insanity, which would be a bit academic as he's dead, or what?
Am I right in thinking this incel guy was originally from the US?
The incel movement is from the US. The bloke who shot up half of Plymouth had a mild west country accent in the video extract I saw.
This incel thing might be a red herring, especially if Davison's original plan was to kill only his mother. The following murders seem to have been random killings after chance encounters.
Weird....
On his Facebook profile, Davison, an apprentice crane operator, claims to be from Phoenix, Arizona.
I don't know the truth, just heard sky news say this and thought he doesn't sound American. As Foxy says part of the weird fantasy?
I guess that we will know more in time, but he strikes me as a Wannabee Yank, with his desire for guns, Trumpist politics etc. It's as easy to be a fake American as anything else on the Internet.
Phoenix, Arizona:
It's a girl, sweet Lord, in a flatbed Ford, slowin' down to take a look at me
may be part of the thought process.
Apparently the story Is a true recollection by Jackson Browne. But it was neither in Winslow, Arizona nor a flatbed Ford (but a small Datsun pickup). They were changed as they scanned better.
Either way, I am not sure of your point.
My point such as it was evaporates entirely because I misremembered the lyric as being Phoenix, Arizona.
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
Presumably because the allegation was found to be groundless and they had no cause to revoke his licence. The article states the weapon was held on a shotgun certificate, not a Class 1, and this sounds quite reasonable to me.
The Guardian understands Davison had to attend an anger management course to get his licence back, and months ago was classed by police as being fit again to possess the three-shot shotgun, despite earlier concerns.
In 2020 he had a row with two youths and was reported to police, but he had no previous offences and agreed to attend the course, sources said. The police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), will formally investigate the handling of his gun licence by police.
Does having a row with two youths make you more likely to kill your mother and go postal? I don't think so. Just as the blanket "mental health" angle doesn't hold up either. A large proportion of the population has mental health issues at some time and it does not make them potentially murderers.
So what does "hold up," in your view? Are you trying to head off a defence of insanity, which would be a bit academic as he's dead, or what?
No, just saying the police (according to legislation) have to have good cause to revoke or refuse a shotgun licence. There are probably certain specific behaviours and specific forms of mental illness that make gun ownership a bad idea. But you can't just apply that guy to everyone who has had a shouting match with someone, or been treated for mild to moderate depression.
What IS an issue is the access to mental health services. It has been poor for decades, has been getting worse, and the pandemic has tipped it all into crisis. No one can know whether it would have helped or not. But if you can't get an appointment then no one will even be able to venture a guess. And there are vast numbers waiting, stewing, and liable to boil over. Of course, the wealthy can pay. But even they are hitting the limits as every single qualified therapist is full and exhausted from 18 months of pandemic trauma.
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
Presumably because the allegation was found to be groundless and they had no cause to revoke his licence. The article states the weapon was held on a shotgun certificate, not a Class 1, and this sounds quite reasonable to me.
The Guardian understands Davison had to attend an anger management course to get his licence back, and months ago was classed by police as being fit again to possess the three-shot shotgun, despite earlier concerns.
In 2020 he had a row with two youths and was reported to police, but he had no previous offences and agreed to attend the course, sources said. The police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), will formally investigate the handling of his gun licence by police.
Does having a row with two youths make you more likely to kill your mother and go postal? I don't think so. Just as the blanket "mental health" angle doesn't hold up either. A large proportion of the population has mental health issues at some time and it does not make them potentially murderers.
A tendency to anger probably means it's not a good idea you are allowed a gun.
That would seem to cover a majority of the population.
It is alleged the Plymouth shooter has his shotgun licence approved again last month, after it had been revoked in 2020
A gunman who killed his mother and four passersby, including a three-year-old girl, had his firearms licence revoked in December, but police reinstated it last month after he attended an anger management course.
Police will face an investigation over their dealings with Jake Davison, 22, who expressed sympathy for the “incel” movement and a keen interest in mass shootings. One resident from Plymouth, where the killing spree took place, said Davison’s family had sought treatment for his mental health issues.
This is just the kind of incident that could lead to a further tightening of firearms legislation, as happened post-Dunblane.
Oh so he did kill some randoms. The terrorism label is perhaps more appropriate in that case.
"Davison’s family had sought treatment for his mental health issues."
This is the real issue. Underfunded mental health services.
Starmer needs to attack on this one.
I think he’d have more success going on the gun licence angle. Might look a bit insensitive to imply that people with mental health problems might go and kill a lot of people.
My point is that he should bring up mental health in its own right. The whole mental health thing is about making people live happier lives. It’s not about preventing murder.
He was obviously very disturbed but he should have been locked up. Now, that’s easy to say in hindsight so I wouldn’t criticise anyone but his mental health issues are very different to those that the issue is usually raised. That’s why Starmer should be wary about this because generally I’d imagine there isn’t much appetite for being back lunatic asylums even if there is a case for them.
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
It is alleged the Plymouth shooter has his shotgun licence approved again last month, after it had been revoked in 2020
A gunman who killed his mother and four passersby, including a three-year-old girl, had his firearms licence revoked in December, but police reinstated it last month after he attended an anger management course.
Police will face an investigation over their dealings with Jake Davison, 22, who expressed sympathy for the “incel” movement and a keen interest in mass shootings. One resident from Plymouth, where the killing spree took place, said Davison’s family had sought treatment for his mental health issues.
This is just the kind of incident that could lead to a further tightening of firearms legislation, as happened post-Dunblane.
Oh so he did kill some randoms. The terrorism label is perhaps more appropriate in that case.
"Davison’s family had sought treatment for his mental health issues."
This is the real issue. Underfunded mental health services.
Starmer needs to attack on this one.
I think he’d have more success going on the gun licence angle. Might look a bit insensitive to imply that people with mental health problems might go and kill a lot of people.
My point is that he should bring up mental health in its own right. The whole mental health thing is about making people live happier lives. It’s not about preventing murder.
He was obviously very disturbed but he should have been locked up. Now, that’s easy to say in hindsight so I wouldn’t criticise anyone but his mental health issues are very different to those that the issue is usually raised. That’s why Starmer should be wary about this because generally I’d imagine there isn’t much appetite for being back lunatic asylums even if there is a case for them.
But people still can be, and regularly are, sectioned. We just don't call them lunatic asylums anymore. And the bar for confinement is justifiably much higher. They still exist though.
‘The World Health Organization has announced it is setting up a new group to trace Covid’s origins, seeking to end what it called “political point scoring” that had hampered investigations. It comes as Danish scientist Peter Ben Embarek, who led the original international mission to Wuhan, unexpectedly suggested in a documentary released yesterday that Covid’s patient zero could be a lab employee infected while collecting bat coronavirus samples.’
Is NigelB literally the last PB-er pimping out the ‘it came from a bat in a soup in the market’ bollocks?
‘Pimping’ ? That’s about the level of your discourse.
What new evidence are you presenting ? A lab leak, as I’ve said many times is a possibility. It remains that.
And no, it didn’t come from a soup in a market. Indeed genetic analysis of the first detected cases - in two markets, not one - showed the virus was genetically distinct between each market. So it’s highly likely there was a prior common source not in either market.
The Embarek interview is months old. I haven’t seen it, but is it anything more than him hypothesising and arguing the lab leak hypothesis should be investigated - which I don’t disagree with ?
It is alleged the Plymouth shooter has his shotgun licence approved again last month, after it had been revoked in 2020
A gunman who killed his mother and four passersby, including a three-year-old girl, had his firearms licence revoked in December, but police reinstated it last month after he attended an anger management course.
Police will face an investigation over their dealings with Jake Davison, 22, who expressed sympathy for the “incel” movement and a keen interest in mass shootings. One resident from Plymouth, where the killing spree took place, said Davison’s family had sought treatment for his mental health issues.
This is just the kind of incident that could lead to a further tightening of firearms legislation, as happened post-Dunblane.
Oh so he did kill some randoms. The terrorism label is perhaps more appropriate in that case.
"Davison’s family had sought treatment for his mental health issues."
This is the real issue. Underfunded mental health services.
Starmer needs to attack on this one.
I think he’d have more success going on the gun licence angle. Might look a bit insensitive to imply that people with mental health problems might go and kill a lot of people.
My point is that he should bring up mental health in its own right. The whole mental health thing is about making people live happier lives. It’s not about preventing murder.
He was obviously very disturbed but he should have been locked up. Now, that’s easy to say in hindsight so I wouldn’t criticise anyone but his mental health issues are very different to those that the issue is usually raised. That’s why Starmer should be wary about this because generally I’d imagine there isn’t much appetite for being back lunatic asylums even if there is a case for them.
But people still can be, and regularly are, sectioned. We just don't call them lunatic asylums anymore. And the bar for confinement is justifiably much higher. They still exist though.
My original point is that iirc his family sought mental health support and could not get it.
What IS an issue is the access to mental health services. It has been poor for decades, has been getting worse, and the pandemic has tipped it all into crisis. No one can know whether it would have helped or not. But if you can't get an appointment then no one will even be able to venture a guess. And there are vast numbers waiting, stewing, and liable to boil over. Of course, the wealthy can pay. But even they are hitting the limits as every single qualified therapist is full and exhausted from 18 months of pandemic trauma.
re: Biden - the annual cost of keeping troops in Afghanistan worked out at about 6% of the US defence budget. So a good chunk of change but it could easily prove to be a false economy.
As people point out Trump wanted to withdraw the troops too but he didn't do so Biden did. Could prove very costly. Let's hope not.
It is alleged the Plymouth shooter has his shotgun licence approved again last month, after it had been revoked in 2020
A gunman who killed his mother and four passersby, including a three-year-old girl, had his firearms licence revoked in December, but police reinstated it last month after he attended an anger management course.
Police will face an investigation over their dealings with Jake Davison, 22, who expressed sympathy for the “incel” movement and a keen interest in mass shootings. One resident from Plymouth, where the killing spree took place, said Davison’s family had sought treatment for his mental health issues.
This is just the kind of incident that could lead to a further tightening of firearms legislation, as happened post-Dunblane.
Oh so he did kill some randoms. The terrorism label is perhaps more appropriate in that case.
"Davison’s family had sought treatment for his mental health issues."
This is the real issue. Underfunded mental health services.
Starmer needs to attack on this one.
I think he’d have more success going on the gun licence angle. Might look a bit insensitive to imply that people with mental health problems might go and kill a lot of people.
My point is that he should bring up mental health in its own right. The whole mental health thing is about making people live happier lives. It’s not about preventing murder.
He was obviously very disturbed but he should have been locked up. Now, that’s easy to say in hindsight so I wouldn’t criticise anyone but his mental health issues are very different to those that the issue is usually raised. That’s why Starmer should be wary about this because generally I’d imagine there isn’t much appetite for being back lunatic asylums even if there is a case for them.
But people still can be, and regularly are, sectioned. We just don't call them lunatic asylums anymore. And the bar for confinement is justifiably much higher. They still exist though.
You’re right about the bar being higher. The whole culture is wrong, which is why things like this happen:
‘The World Health Organization has announced it is setting up a new group to trace Covid’s origins, seeking to end what it called “political point scoring” that had hampered investigations. It comes as Danish scientist Peter Ben Embarek, who led the original international mission to Wuhan, unexpectedly suggested in a documentary released yesterday that Covid’s patient zero could be a lab employee infected while collecting bat coronavirus samples.’
Is NigelB literally the last PB-er pimping out the ‘it came from a bat in a soup in the market’ bollocks?
‘Pimping’ ? That’s about the level of your discourse.
What new evidence are you presenting ? A lab leak, as I’ve said many times is a possibility. It remains that.
And no, it didn’t come from a soup in a market. Indeed genetic analysis of the first detected cases - in two markets, not one - showed the virus was genetically distinct between each market. So it’s highly likely there was a prior common source not in either market.
The Embarek interview is months old. I haven’t seen it, but is it anything more than him hypothesising and arguing the lab leak hypothesis should be investigated - which I don’t disagree with ?
It’s actually rather irrelevant whether it came from a lab or Batman’s cave. What’s relevant is when the CCP learnt about the outbreak and further, concluded that it had become human to human and aerosolised?
The answer is pretty clearly far earlier than when they were still exerting full diplomatic pressure to maintain international flights. Which as far I’m concerned, makes the crisis an act of biological warfare whatever the origins of the virus outbreak.
That it came from a lab just makes it worse. I find the apologists for the CCP so difficult to understand but I do have to take pause and remember that not everyone has seen it up close and personal.
Am I right in thinking this incel guy was originally from the US?
The incel movement is from the US. The bloke who shot up half of Plymouth had a mild west country accent in the video extract I saw.
This incel thing might be a red herring, especially if Davison's original plan was to kill only his mother. The following murders seem to have been random killings after chance encounters.
Weird....
On his Facebook profile, Davison, an apprentice crane operator, claims to be from Phoenix, Arizona.
I don't know the truth, just heard sky news say this and thought he doesn't sound American. As Foxy says part of the weird fantasy?
I guess that we will know more in time, but he strikes me as a Wannabee Yank, with his desire for guns, Trumpist politics etc. It's as easy to be a fake American as anything else on the Internet.
Phoenix, Arizona:
It's a girl, sweet Lord, in a flatbed Ford, slowin' down to take a look at me
may be part of the thought process.
Apparently the story Is a true recollection by Jackson Browne. But it was neither in Winslow, Arizona nor a flatbed Ford (but a small Datsun pickup). They were changed as they scanned better.
Either way, I am not sure of your point.
Me neither. But Jackson is a bloody good song writer.
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
Presumably because the allegation was found to be groundless and they had no cause to revoke his licence. The article states the weapon was held on a shotgun certificate, not a Class 1, and this sounds quite reasonable to me.
The Guardian understands Davison had to attend an anger management course to get his licence back, and months ago was classed by police as being fit again to possess the three-shot shotgun, despite earlier concerns.
In 2020 he had a row with two youths and was reported to police, but he had no previous offences and agreed to attend the course, sources said. The police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), will formally investigate the handling of his gun licence by police.
Does having a row with two youths make you more likely to kill your mother and go postal? I don't think so. Just as the blanket "mental health" angle doesn't hold up either. A large proportion of the population has mental health issues at some time and it does not make them potentially murderers.
Default should surely be that noone has a licence to have a gun at home except for farmers (and then it needs to be convincing). Gun clubs sure, but have the gun under lock and key at the club where you go to shoot targets. What is the reason you give for having a gun when you like in a city like Plymouth?
Incels are a meme. There's twice as much genetic diversity in mitochondrial DNA as there is in the Y chromosome and AFAIK this is repeated throughout the mammal kindom.
‘The World Health Organization has announced it is setting up a new group to trace Covid’s origins, seeking to end what it called “political point scoring” that had hampered investigations. It comes as Danish scientist Peter Ben Embarek, who led the original international mission to Wuhan, unexpectedly suggested in a documentary released yesterday that Covid’s patient zero could be a lab employee infected while collecting bat coronavirus samples.’
Is NigelB literally the last PB-er pimping out the ‘it came from a bat in a soup in the market’ bollocks?
‘Pimping’ ? That’s about the level of your discourse.
What new evidence are you presenting ? A lab leak, as I’ve said many times is a possibility. It remains that.
And no, it didn’t come from a soup in a market. Indeed genetic analysis of the first detected cases - in two markets, not one - showed the virus was genetically distinct between each market. So it’s highly likely there was a prior common source not in either market.
The Embarek interview is months old. I haven’t seen it, but is it anything more than him hypothesising and arguing the lab leak hypothesis should be investigated - which I don’t disagree with ?
It’s actually rather irrelevant whether it came from a lab or Batman’s cave. What’s relevant is when the CCP learnt about the outbreak and further, concluded that it had become human to human and aerosolised?
The answer is pretty clearly far earlier than when they were still exerting full diplomatic pressure to maintain international flights. Which as far I’m concerned, makes the crisis an act of biological warfare whatever the origins of the virus outbreak.
That it came from a lab just makes it worse. I find the apologists for the CCP so difficult to understand but I do have to take pause and remember that not everyone has seen it up close and personal.
Will the WHO be willing to appoint investigators unapproved by The Party?
It is alleged the Plymouth shooter has his shotgun licence approved again last month, after it had been revoked in 2020
A gunman who killed his mother and four passersby, including a three-year-old girl, had his firearms licence revoked in December, but police reinstated it last month after he attended an anger management course.
Police will face an investigation over their dealings with Jake Davison, 22, who expressed sympathy for the “incel” movement and a keen interest in mass shootings. One resident from Plymouth, where the killing spree took place, said Davison’s family had sought treatment for his mental health issues.
This is just the kind of incident that could lead to a further tightening of firearms legislation, as happened post-Dunblane.
Oh so he did kill some randoms. The terrorism label is perhaps more appropriate in that case.
"Davison’s family had sought treatment for his mental health issues."
This is the real issue. Underfunded mental health services.
Starmer needs to attack on this one.
I think he’d have more success going on the gun licence angle. Might look a bit insensitive to imply that people with mental health problems might go and kill a lot of people.
He was obviously very disturbed but he should have been locked up. Now, that’s easy to say in hindsight so I wouldn’t criticise anyone but his mental health issues are very different to those that the issue is usually raised. That’s why Starmer should be wary about this because generally I’d imagine there isn’t much appetite for being back lunatic asylums even if there is a case for them.
With hindsight it would have been better for him to be locked up, but was there anything in advance to justify taking away his liberty? So far there is no evidence of that.
Sectioning to treat someone against there will is something that is reserved only for where there is a danger to the patient or to others, and is subject to review.
What IS an issue is the access to mental health services. It has been poor for decades, has been getting worse, and the pandemic has tipped it all into crisis. No one can know whether it would have helped or not. But if you can't get an appointment then no one will even be able to venture a guess. And there are vast numbers waiting, stewing, and liable to boil over. Of course, the wealthy can pay. But even they are hitting the limits as every single qualified therapist is full and exhausted from 18 months of pandemic trauma.
Yes, mental health has long been a cinderella service in the NHS. I am not sure that will ever change, despite the slow changes in attitudes in recent years.
How long until unleaded hits £1.40 a litre?! Jesus Christ it’s extortionate. I swear everything is rapidly getting more expensive
I was extremely concerned when I heard with a chief advisor to US government claiming inflation was a think of the past in the west, we are juat seeing a bit of temporary uplift as we unlock from pandemic.
Is the whole incel thing a subsection of the wider societial issue of the likes of social media boostering all these so called influencers appearing to have the perfect look, the perfect life, endless money, all the latest gear?
Back in the day you compared yourself with your mates and perhaps the old person you knew that perhaps had a flash car etc.
Now the lives of the rich is all out there to see and then you have all these fake influencer who make it apper they also have this perfect life.
An example of this is when I was building my home gym I did a load of research of which kit to buy. My social media even to this day is packed with steroid jacked men as clearly big tech super brain algorithms has equated me wanting gym kit with wanting to see endless pictures of roided up men.
It's a combination of two effects:
1) Men will marry up or down in economic status, but women insist on marrying equal or up.
2) Women now have the same access to economic opportunity as men, at least up to the age of 30 by which time most couples pair up.
The result is a surplus of unattached men at the low end of economic status and a surplus of women at the high end.
The second point i think is very pertinent. Mrs U has some single female friends, who are intelligent and self sufficient, they regularly complain about going on dates via apps and the men aren't successful or ambitious enough for them.
It isn't solely about the money, they aren't looking for a multi-millionaire so they can pack it all in and live a life of luxury, but they want somebody who is driven like them and can enjoy nicer things in life....but they absolutely don't want to be funding the man to do this, it has to be equal. They aren't interested in a nice guy who works in the supermarket and earns minimum wage.
Where as we know men will do this.
To be fair on women, there are a lot of unlovable men, and an unlovable man without even the compensation of money or other charm seems a lot worse than being single.
Who in their right mind would date these incels?
A lot of the violence throughout human history was probably caused or exacerbated by this problem.
I can see this argument re casual sex in the Internet age. But there is still the same men to women ratio for long term relationships. So why should there be men left on the shelf?
Well it’s 105:100 so at least 1 in 21 men will by definition be single at any one time.
But aren't the extra 5 (in 105) all >70 years old?
Other way round. 105 boys are born for every 100 girls. I guess for the population as a whole there probably are more women. But that’s no consolation when the surplus women are drawing a pension!
As I said, there are lots of highly talented, accomplished younger women in the surplus. They just, fairly reasonably, won't date the leftover surplus men.
We once solved this via two methods. Firstly, we ensured most men were more higher status economically than most women by depriving women of opportunity.
Secondly, we restricted humans natural polygamy via Christian monogamy. That meant the women that would naturally have been second and third wives of high status men instead settled for mid status men instead. And the women that would have been wives of mid status men instead settled for low status men. But now monogamy has partially broken down for sequential polygamy, where high status men can have a string of hookups with multiple women duped into believing they might be their wives someday. That leaves a sparseness of women left over for low status men.
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
Presumably because the allegation was found to be groundless and they had no cause to revoke his licence. The article states the weapon was held on a shotgun certificate, not a Class 1, and this sounds quite reasonable to me.
The Guardian understands Davison had to attend an anger management course to get his licence back, and months ago was classed by police as being fit again to possess the three-shot shotgun, despite earlier concerns.
In 2020 he had a row with two youths and was reported to police, but he had no previous offences and agreed to attend the course, sources said. The police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), will formally investigate the handling of his gun licence by police.
Does having a row with two youths make you more likely to kill your mother and go postal? I don't think so. Just as the blanket "mental health" angle doesn't hold up either. A large proportion of the population has mental health issues at some time and it does not make them potentially murderers.
Default should surely be that noone has a licence to have a gun at home except for farmers (and then it needs to be convincing). Gun clubs sure, but have the gun under lock and key at the club where you go to shoot targets. What is the reason you give for having a gun when you like in a city like Plymouth?
He could have been into clay or game shooting and drove out of town. But my understanding is that the revocation of a gun licence is purely at the police's discretion. If they think there's something dodgy about you they can revoke or refuse to grant it - no questions asked and no appeal available.
Re. the Plymouth shootings: * it seems the incel scene tanks some men up to have the kind of attitude that can explode in such murderous attacks - this is not the first time; * it is clear to those who don't know the scene that much of what is being written about it today by "experts" is gobbledegook, which is presumably even clearer to those who do know it; * what the hell is wrong with men who choose to gather with other incel men and moan about how bad it is to be an incel rather than going out and meeting women?
On your third point I think it’s lack of confidence and comfort zones. The older you get as an incel the more daunting it becomes to break your duck
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
Presumably because the allegation was found to be groundless and they had no cause to revoke his licence. The article states the weapon was held on a shotgun certificate, not a Class 1, and this sounds quite reasonable to me.
The Guardian understands Davison had to attend an anger management course to get his licence back, and months ago was classed by police as being fit again to possess the three-shot shotgun, despite earlier concerns.
In 2020 he had a row with two youths and was reported to police, but he had no previous offences and agreed to attend the course, sources said. The police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), will formally investigate the handling of his gun licence by police.
Does having a row with two youths make you more likely to kill your mother and go postal? I don't think so. Just as the blanket "mental health" angle doesn't hold up either. A large proportion of the population has mental health issues at some time and it does not make them potentially murderers.
Default should surely be that noone has a licence to have a gun at home except for farmers (and then it needs to be convincing). Gun clubs sure, but have the gun under lock and key at the club where you go to shoot targets. What is the reason you give for having a gun when you like in a city like Plymouth?
He could have been into clay or game shooting and drove out of town. But my understanding is that the revocation of a gun licence is purely at the police's discretion. If they think there's something dodgy about you they can revoke or refuse to grant it - no questions asked and no appeal available.
Incels are a meme. There's twice as much genetic diversity in mitochondrial DNA as there is in the Y chromosome and AFAIK this is repeated throughout the mammal kindom.
Could you expand on that? Because I am only 95% certain it is utter gibberish.
A Cardiff University pharmacy student died within hours of being told she had failed a crucial examination though it was later updated by the University as a pass
However, the 21 year old never saw the update and was found on rocks below the Britannia Bridge on the 8th July last year
So sad. In my first term at Law School in York I was told that I had failed a preliminary exam. I asked to see the tutor at my Mother’s insistence when I was on the verge of quitting (law school, not anything more drastic, although I didn’t feel far off) to find out there that someone had put my candidate number down rather than her own. Not only had she failed the exam but she couldn’t even get her number right. I got a transfer down to London at the end of the year.
That Cardiff story is awful. Also, people can have off days anyway and friends should be there to ancojurage them onwards.. I failed my first year (partly because I was learning Danish at the same time as maths, but mainly I just found it hard), and my uni adviser said dubiously "well, you could try again, if you want to". I went on to get a PhD.
Is the whole incel thing a subsection of the wider societial issue of the likes of social media boostering all these so called influencers appearing to have the perfect look, the perfect life, endless money, all the latest gear?
Back in the day you compared yourself with your mates and perhaps the old person you knew that perhaps had a flash car etc.
Now the lives of the rich is all out there to see and then you have all these fake influencer who make it apper they also have this perfect life.
An example of this is when I was building my home gym I did a load of research of which kit to buy. My social media even to this day is packed with steroid jacked men as clearly big tech super brain algorithms has equated me wanting gym kit with wanting to see endless pictures of roided up men.
It's a combination of two effects:
1) Men will marry up or down in economic status, but women insist on marrying equal or up.
2) Women now have the same access to economic opportunity as men, at least up to the age of 30 by which time most couples pair up.
The result is a surplus of unattached men at the low end of economic status and a surplus of women at the high end.
The second point i think is very pertinent. Mrs U has some single female friends, who are intelligent and self sufficient, they regularly complain about going on dates via apps and the men aren't successful or ambitious enough for them.
It isn't solely about the money, they aren't looking for a multi-millionaire so they can pack it all in and live a life of luxury, but they want somebody who is driven like them and can enjoy nicer things in life....but they absolutely don't want to be funding the man to do this, it has to be equal. They aren't interested in a nice guy who works in the supermarket and earns minimum wage.
Where as we know men will do this.
To be fair on women, there are a lot of unlovable men, and an unlovable man without even the compensation of money or other charm seems a lot worse than being single.
Who in their right mind would date these incels?
A lot of the violence throughout human history was probably caused or exacerbated by this problem.
I don't understand what you mean by "this problem".
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
Presumably because the allegation was found to be groundless and they had no cause to revoke his licence. The article states the weapon was held on a shotgun certificate, not a Class 1, and this sounds quite reasonable to me.
The Guardian understands Davison had to attend an anger management course to get his licence back, and months ago was classed by police as being fit again to possess the three-shot shotgun, despite earlier concerns.
In 2020 he had a row with two youths and was reported to police, but he had no previous offences and agreed to attend the course, sources said. The police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), will formally investigate the handling of his gun licence by police.
Does having a row with two youths make you more likely to kill your mother and go postal? I don't think so. Just as the blanket "mental health" angle doesn't hold up either. A large proportion of the population has mental health issues at some time and it does not make them potentially murderers.
Default should surely be that noone has a licence to have a gun at home except for farmers (and then it needs to be convincing). Gun clubs sure, but have the gun under lock and key at the club where you go to shoot targets. What is the reason you give for having a gun when you like in a city like Plymouth?
Very few gun crimes in the uk are committed with licensed fire arms, unlicensed guns are a far bigger number
in 2019 there were 159,745 firearm certificates and 572,488 shotgun certificates on issue. There were however estimated to be 4 million guns in britain.
If you want a gun and dont care about illegallity they are relatively easy to come by. I am pretty sure if he hadnt had a gun license he would still have been able to obtain a gun. So all tightening up does is penalise people who aren't misusing them
Is the whole incel thing a subsection of the wider societial issue of the likes of social media boostering all these so called influencers appearing to have the perfect look, the perfect life, endless money, all the latest gear?
Back in the day you compared yourself with your mates and perhaps the old person you knew that perhaps had a flash car etc.
Now the lives of the rich is all out there to see and then you have all these fake influencer who make it apper they also have this perfect life.
An example of this is when I was building my home gym I did a load of research of which kit to buy. My social media even to this day is packed with steroid jacked men as clearly big tech super brain algorithms has equated me wanting gym kit with wanting to see endless pictures of roided up men.
It's a combination of two effects:
1) Men will marry up or down in economic status, but women insist on marrying equal or up.
2) Women now have the same access to economic opportunity as men, at least up to the age of 30 by which time most couples pair up.
The result is a surplus of unattached men at the low end of economic status and a surplus of women at the high end.
The second point i think is very pertinent. Mrs U has some single female friends, who are intelligent and self sufficient, they regularly complain about going on dates via apps and the men aren't successful or ambitious enough for them.
It isn't solely about the money, they aren't looking for a multi-millionaire so they can pack it all in and live a life of luxury, but they want somebody who is driven like them and can enjoy nicer things in life....but they absolutely don't want to be funding the man to do this, it has to be equal. They aren't interested in a nice guy who works in the supermarket and earns minimum wage.
Where as we know men will do this.
To be fair on women, there are a lot of unlovable men, and an unlovable man without even the compensation of money or other charm seems a lot worse than being single.
Who in their right mind would date these incels?
A lot of the violence throughout human history was probably caused or exacerbated by this problem.
I don't understand what you mean by "this problem".
No one is entitled to a companion or to sex.
How does that disqualify it from being a problem? Everybody thinks of themselves as lovable (and, not incidentally, is strongly encouraged to do so by any therapist/counsellor/psychologist they bump into).
Is the whole incel thing a subsection of the wider societial issue of the likes of social media boostering all these so called influencers appearing to have the perfect look, the perfect life, endless money, all the latest gear?
Back in the day you compared yourself with your mates and perhaps the old person you knew that perhaps had a flash car etc.
Now the lives of the rich is all out there to see and then you have all these fake influencer who make it apper they also have this perfect life.
An example of this is when I was building my home gym I did a load of research of which kit to buy. My social media even to this day is packed with steroid jacked men as clearly big tech super brain algorithms has equated me wanting gym kit with wanting to see endless pictures of roided up men.
It's a combination of two effects:
1) Men will marry up or down in economic status, but women insist on marrying equal or up.
2) Women now have the same access to economic opportunity as men, at least up to the age of 30 by which time most couples pair up.
The result is a surplus of unattached men at the low end of economic status and a surplus of women at the high end.
The second point i think is very pertinent. Mrs U has some single female friends, who are intelligent and self sufficient, they regularly complain about going on dates via apps and the men aren't successful or ambitious enough for them.
It isn't solely about the money, they aren't looking for a multi-millionaire so they can pack it all in and live a life of luxury, but they want somebody who is driven like them and can enjoy nicer things in life....but they absolutely don't want to be funding the man to do this, it has to be equal. They aren't interested in a nice guy who works in the supermarket and earns minimum wage.
Where as we know men will do this.
To be fair on women, there are a lot of unlovable men, and an unlovable man without even the compensation of money or other charm seems a lot worse than being single.
Who in their right mind would date these incels?
A lot of the violence throughout human history was probably caused or exacerbated by this problem.
I don't understand what you mean by "this problem".
No one is entitled to a companion or to sex.
I dont understand how you got that from Andy's post.
Sure, no one is entitled to such but most desire it, so a lack even by their own fault causes problems as people react to not achieving things they desire.
Even if you disagree with that theory I don't see how you got a presumption of entitlement from it. Person wants X but does not get it and so lashes out works far beyond matters of sex.
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
Presumably because the allegation was found to be groundless and they had no cause to revoke his licence. The article states the weapon was held on a shotgun certificate, not a Class 1, and this sounds quite reasonable to me.
The Guardian understands Davison had to attend an anger management course to get his licence back, and months ago was classed by police as being fit again to possess the three-shot shotgun, despite earlier concerns.
In 2020 he had a row with two youths and was reported to police, but he had no previous offences and agreed to attend the course, sources said. The police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), will formally investigate the handling of his gun licence by police.
Does having a row with two youths make you more likely to kill your mother and go postal? I don't think so. Just as the blanket "mental health" angle doesn't hold up either. A large proportion of the population has mental health issues at some time and it does not make them potentially murderers.
Default should surely be that noone has a licence to have a gun at home except for farmers (and then it needs to be convincing). Gun clubs sure, but have the gun under lock and key at the club where you go to shoot targets. What is the reason you give for having a gun when you like in a city like Plymouth?
Very few gun crimes in the uk are committed with licensed fire arms, unlicensed guns are a far bigger number
in 2019 there were 159,745 firearm certificates and 572,488 shotgun certificates on issue. There were however estimated to be 4 million guns in britain.
If you want a gun and dont care about illegallity they are relatively easy to come by. I am pretty sure if he hadnt had a gun license he would still have been able to obtain a gun. So all tightening up does is penalise people who aren't misusing them
4 million? Really? I find that difficult to believe.
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
Presumably because the allegation was found to be groundless and they had no cause to revoke his licence. The article states the weapon was held on a shotgun certificate, not a Class 1, and this sounds quite reasonable to me.
The Guardian understands Davison had to attend an anger management course to get his licence back, and months ago was classed by police as being fit again to possess the three-shot shotgun, despite earlier concerns.
In 2020 he had a row with two youths and was reported to police, but he had no previous offences and agreed to attend the course, sources said. The police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), will formally investigate the handling of his gun licence by police.
Does having a row with two youths make you more likely to kill your mother and go postal? I don't think so. Just as the blanket "mental health" angle doesn't hold up either. A large proportion of the population has mental health issues at some time and it does not make them potentially murderers.
Default should surely be that noone has a licence to have a gun at home except for farmers (and then it needs to be convincing). Gun clubs sure, but have the gun under lock and key at the club where you go to shoot targets. What is the reason you give for having a gun when you like in a city like Plymouth?
Very few gun crimes in the uk are committed with licensed fire arms, unlicensed guns are a far bigger number
in 2019 there were 159,745 firearm certificates and 572,488 shotgun certificates on issue. There were however estimated to be 4 million guns in britain.
If you want a gun and dont care about illegallity they are relatively easy to come by. I am pretty sure if he hadnt had a gun license he would still have been able to obtain a gun. So all tightening up does is penalise people who aren't misusing them
4 million? Really? I find that difficult to believe.
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
Presumably because the allegation was found to be groundless and they had no cause to revoke his licence. The article states the weapon was held on a shotgun certificate, not a Class 1, and this sounds quite reasonable to me.
The Guardian understands Davison had to attend an anger management course to get his licence back, and months ago was classed by police as being fit again to possess the three-shot shotgun, despite earlier concerns.
In 2020 he had a row with two youths and was reported to police, but he had no previous offences and agreed to attend the course, sources said. The police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), will formally investigate the handling of his gun licence by police.
Does having a row with two youths make you more likely to kill your mother and go postal? I don't think so. Just as the blanket "mental health" angle doesn't hold up either. A large proportion of the population has mental health issues at some time and it does not make them potentially murderers.
Default should surely be that noone has a licence to have a gun at home except for farmers (and then it needs to be convincing). Gun clubs sure, but have the gun under lock and key at the club where you go to shoot targets. What is the reason you give for having a gun when you like in a city like Plymouth?
Very few gun crimes in the uk are committed with licensed fire arms, unlicensed guns are a far bigger number
in 2019 there were 159,745 firearm certificates and 572,488 shotgun certificates on issue. There were however estimated to be 4 million guns in britain.
If you want a gun and dont care about illegallity they are relatively easy to come by. I am pretty sure if he hadnt had a gun license he would still have been able to obtain a gun. So all tightening up does is penalise people who aren't misusing them
Is it really that easy? The level of hunger crime would not seem to reflect that.
I can't see much pushback on further tightening. Most people dont have a gun or even know someone who does, even if your figure is correct, so they won't mind it being even harder.
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
Presumably because the allegation was found to be groundless and they had no cause to revoke his licence. The article states the weapon was held on a shotgun certificate, not a Class 1, and this sounds quite reasonable to me.
The Guardian understands Davison had to attend an anger management course to get his licence back, and months ago was classed by police as being fit again to possess the three-shot shotgun, despite earlier concerns.
In 2020 he had a row with two youths and was reported to police, but he had no previous offences and agreed to attend the course, sources said. The police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), will formally investigate the handling of his gun licence by police.
Does having a row with two youths make you more likely to kill your mother and go postal? I don't think so. Just as the blanket "mental health" angle doesn't hold up either. A large proportion of the population has mental health issues at some time and it does not make them potentially murderers.
Default should surely be that noone has a licence to have a gun at home except for farmers (and then it needs to be convincing). Gun clubs sure, but have the gun under lock and key at the club where you go to shoot targets. What is the reason you give for having a gun when you like in a city like Plymouth?
Very few gun crimes in the uk are committed with licensed fire arms, unlicensed guns are a far bigger number
in 2019 there were 159,745 firearm certificates and 572,488 shotgun certificates on issue. There were however estimated to be 4 million guns in britain.
If you want a gun and dont care about illegallity they are relatively easy to come by. I am pretty sure if he hadnt had a gun license he would still have been able to obtain a gun. So all tightening up does is penalise people who aren't misusing them
Is it really that easy? The level of hunger crime would not seem to reflect that.
I can't see much pushback on further tightening. Most people dont have a gun or even know someone who does, even if your figure is correct, so they won't mind it being even harder.
Shrugs I regard myself as a fairly ordinary guy, never been a drug dealer or anything. I am pretty sure I know several people who could put me in contact and vouch for me with someone that could supply a firearm if I wished one
Is the whole incel thing a subsection of the wider societial issue of the likes of social media boostering all these so called influencers appearing to have the perfect look, the perfect life, endless money, all the latest gear?
Back in the day you compared yourself with your mates and perhaps the old person you knew that perhaps had a flash car etc.
Now the lives of the rich is all out there to see and then you have all these fake influencer who make it apper they also have this perfect life.
An example of this is when I was building my home gym I did a load of research of which kit to buy. My social media even to this day is packed with steroid jacked men as clearly big tech super brain algorithms has equated me wanting gym kit with wanting to see endless pictures of roided up men.
It's a combination of two effects:
1) Men will marry up or down in economic status, but women insist on marrying equal or up.
2) Women now have the same access to economic opportunity as men, at least up to the age of 30 by which time most couples pair up.
The result is a surplus of unattached men at the low end of economic status and a surplus of women at the high end.
The second point i think is very pertinent. Mrs U has some single female friends, who are intelligent and self sufficient, they regularly complain about going on dates via apps and the men aren't successful or ambitious enough for them.
It isn't solely about the money, they aren't looking for a multi-millionaire so they can pack it all in and live a life of luxury, but they want somebody who is driven like them and can enjoy nicer things in life....but they absolutely don't want to be funding the man to do this, it has to be equal. They aren't interested in a nice guy who works in the supermarket and earns minimum wage.
Where as we know men will do this.
To be fair on women, there are a lot of unlovable men, and an unlovable man without even the compensation of money or other charm seems a lot worse than being single.
Who in their right mind would date these incels?
A lot of the violence throughout human history was probably caused or exacerbated by this problem.
I don't understand what you mean by "this problem".
No one is entitled to a companion or to sex.
I dont understand how you got that from Andy's post.
Sure, no one is entitled to such but most desire it, so a lack even by their own fault causes problems as people react to not achieving things they desire.
Even if you disagree with that theory I don't see how you got a presumption of entitlement from it. Person wants X but does not get it and so lashes out works far beyond matters of sex.
I simply don't understand what he is referring to as "this problem".
Re. the Plymouth shootings: * it seems the incel scene tanks some men up to have the kind of attitude that can explode in such murderous attacks - this is not the first time; * it is clear to those who don't know the scene that much of what is being written about it today by "experts" is gobbledegook, which is presumably even clearer to those who do know it; * what the hell is wrong with men who choose to gather with other incel men and moan about how bad it is to be an incel rather than going out and meeting women?
On your third point I think it’s lack of confidence and comfort zones. The older you get as an incel the more daunting it becomes to break your duck
If no one will take you on a nice holiday you could always pay yourself.
Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman just a month before rampage after officers confiscated it and revoked his licence last year over an assault allegation
Presumably because the allegation was found to be groundless and they had no cause to revoke his licence. The article states the weapon was held on a shotgun certificate, not a Class 1, and this sounds quite reasonable to me.
The Guardian understands Davison had to attend an anger management course to get his licence back, and months ago was classed by police as being fit again to possess the three-shot shotgun, despite earlier concerns.
In 2020 he had a row with two youths and was reported to police, but he had no previous offences and agreed to attend the course, sources said. The police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), will formally investigate the handling of his gun licence by police.
Does having a row with two youths make you more likely to kill your mother and go postal? I don't think so. Just as the blanket "mental health" angle doesn't hold up either. A large proportion of the population has mental health issues at some time and it does not make them potentially murderers.
Default should surely be that noone has a licence to have a gun at home except for farmers (and then it needs to be convincing). Gun clubs sure, but have the gun under lock and key at the club where you go to shoot targets. What is the reason you give for having a gun when you like in a city like Plymouth?
Very few gun crimes in the uk are committed with licensed fire arms, unlicensed guns are a far bigger number
in 2019 there were 159,745 firearm certificates and 572,488 shotgun certificates on issue. There were however estimated to be 4 million guns in britain.
If you want a gun and dont care about illegallity they are relatively easy to come by. I am pretty sure if he hadnt had a gun license he would still have been able to obtain a gun. So all tightening up does is penalise people who aren't misusing them
Is it really that easy? The level of hunger crime would not seem to reflect that.
I can't see much pushback on further tightening. Most people dont have a gun or even know someone who does, even if your figure is correct, so they won't mind it being even harder.
That doesnt follow because hunger crime will result mainly in shoplifting and lets face it thats a slap on the wrist and back to continue mostly. Carrying a weapon would be counterproductive
Re. the Plymouth shootings: * it seems the incel scene tanks some men up to have the kind of attitude that can explode in such murderous attacks - this is not the first time; * it is clear to those who don't know the scene that much of what is being written about it today by "experts" is gobbledegook, which is presumably even clearer to those who do know it; * what the hell is wrong with men who choose to gather with other incel men and moan about how bad it is to be an incel rather than going out and meeting women?
On your third point I think it’s lack of confidence and comfort zones. The older you get as an incel the more daunting it becomes to break your duck
If no one will take you on a nice holiday you could always pay yourself.
If you can't hook up when you are in your 20s, I have no idea how you would in your 40s. In fact, I have no idea how it even really works when people have careers and kids, then trying to fit in meeting somebody new.
Is the whole incel thing a subsection of the wider societial issue of the likes of social media boostering all these so called influencers appearing to have the perfect look, the perfect life, endless money, all the latest gear?
Back in the day you compared yourself with your mates and perhaps the old person you knew that perhaps had a flash car etc.
Now the lives of the rich is all out there to see and then you have all these fake influencer who make it apper they also have this perfect life.
An example of this is when I was building my home gym I did a load of research of which kit to buy. My social media even to this day is packed with steroid jacked men as clearly big tech super brain algorithms has equated me wanting gym kit with wanting to see endless pictures of roided up men.
It's a combination of two effects:
1) Men will marry up or down in economic status, but women insist on marrying equal or up.
2) Women now have the same access to economic opportunity as men, at least up to the age of 30 by which time most couples pair up.
The result is a surplus of unattached men at the low end of economic status and a surplus of women at the high end.
The second point i think is very pertinent. Mrs U has some single female friends, who are intelligent and self sufficient, they regularly complain about going on dates via apps and the men aren't successful or ambitious enough for them.
It isn't solely about the money, they aren't looking for a multi-millionaire so they can pack it all in and live a life of luxury, but they want somebody who is driven like them and can enjoy nicer things in life....but they absolutely don't want to be funding the man to do this, it has to be equal. They aren't interested in a nice guy who works in the supermarket and earns minimum wage.
Where as we know men will do this.
To be fair on women, there are a lot of unlovable men, and an unlovable man without even the compensation of money or other charm seems a lot worse than being single.
Who in their right mind would date these incels?
A lot of the violence throughout human history was probably caused or exacerbated by this problem.
I don't understand what you mean by "this problem".
No one is entitled to a companion or to sex.
I dont understand how you got that from Andy's post.
Sure, no one is entitled to such but most desire it, so a lack even by their own fault causes problems as people react to not achieving things they desire.
Even if you disagree with that theory I don't see how you got a presumption of entitlement from it. Person wants X but does not get it and so lashes out works far beyond matters of sex.
I simply don't understand what he is referring to as "this problem".
The five people who got shot in Plymouth yesterday could probably give you a clue, if they still could.
Canada plans to resettle more than 20,000 vulnerable Afghans including women leaders, human rights workers and reporters to protect them from Taliban reprisals, Immigration Minister Marco Mendicino said on Friday. https://t.co/qLJLHX7Osm
Incels are a meme. There's twice as much genetic diversity in mitochondrial DNA as there is in the Y chromosome and AFAIK this is repeated throughout the mammal kindom.
Could you expand on that? Because I am only 95% certain it is utter gibberish.
We inherit mitochondrial DNA from the female and only the female, the Y chromosome can only be passed on from male-male. There is twice as much genetic diversity in mtDNA as there is in the Y chromosome. This means that twice as many women have produced viable offspring as male.
Is the whole incel thing a subsection of the wider societial issue of the likes of social media boostering all these so called influencers appearing to have the perfect look, the perfect life, endless money, all the latest gear?
Back in the day you compared yourself with your mates and perhaps the old person you knew that perhaps had a flash car etc.
Now the lives of the rich is all out there to see and then you have all these fake influencer who make it apper they also have this perfect life.
An example of this is when I was building my home gym I did a load of research of which kit to buy. My social media even to this day is packed with steroid jacked men as clearly big tech super brain algorithms has equated me wanting gym kit with wanting to see endless pictures of roided up men.
It's a combination of two effects:
1) Men will marry up or down in economic status, but women insist on marrying equal or up.
2) Women now have the same access to economic opportunity as men, at least up to the age of 30 by which time most couples pair up.
The result is a surplus of unattached men at the low end of economic status and a surplus of women at the high end.
The second point i think is very pertinent. Mrs U has some single female friends, who are intelligent and self sufficient, they regularly complain about going on dates via apps and the men aren't successful or ambitious enough for them.
It isn't solely about the money, they aren't looking for a multi-millionaire so they can pack it all in and live a life of luxury, but they want somebody who is driven like them and can enjoy nicer things in life....but they absolutely don't want to be funding the man to do this, it has to be equal. They aren't interested in a nice guy who works in the supermarket and earns minimum wage.
Where as we know men will do this.
To be fair on women, there are a lot of unlovable men, and an unlovable man without even the compensation of money or other charm seems a lot worse than being single.
Who in their right mind would date these incels?
A lot of the violence throughout human history was probably caused or exacerbated by this problem.
I don't understand what you mean by "this problem".
No one is entitled to a companion or to sex.
I dont understand how you got that from Andy's post.
Sure, no one is entitled to such but most desire it, so a lack even by their own fault causes problems as people react to not achieving things they desire.
Even if you disagree with that theory I don't see how you got a presumption of entitlement from it. Person wants X but does not get it and so lashes out works far beyond matters of sex.
I simply don't understand what he is referring to as "this problem".
The five people who got shot in Plymouth yesterday could probably give you a clue, if they still could.
Incels are a meme. There's twice as much genetic diversity in mitochondrial DNA as there is in the Y chromosome and AFAIK this is repeated throughout the mammal kindom.
Could you expand on that? Because I am only 95% certain it is utter gibberish.
We inherit mitochondrial DNA from the female and only the female, the Y chromosome can only be passed on from male-male. There is twice as much genetic diversity in mtDNA as there is in the Y chromosome. This means that twice as many women have produced viable offspring as male.
No, it may just mean that mitochondrial mutations don't matter much* but that Y chromosome mutations are often not compatible with life.
* there are a number of severe mitochondrial genetic diseases.
Comments
This incel thing might be a red herring, especially if Davison's original plan was to kill only his mother. The following murders seem to have been random killings after chance encounters.
MalcolmG OTOH is comedy gold. I suspect most people,just prod him for his Pavlovian responses.
On his Facebook profile, Davison, an apprentice crane operator, claims to be from Phoenix, Arizona.
https://www.news.sky.com/story/plymouth-shooting-man-suspected-of-killing-five-people-and-himself-named-as-jake-davison-23-12380132
https://youtu.be/AqUy8915gBg
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56269095
I think there are more gay men than lesbians too, so the numbers are a bit mismatched, but not by much.
I don't know the truth, just heard sky news say this and thought he doesn't sound American. As Foxy says part of the weird fantasy?
My question is, who the **** needs to be licenced to use a pump action shotgun anyway?
https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/is-it-time-to-change-our-mind-about-pump-action-shotguns-110085
It's a girl, sweet Lord, in a flatbed Ford, slowin' down to take a look at me
may be part of the thought process.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9892111/Plymouth-killer-Jake-Davison-handed-shotgun-month.html
In 2020 he had a row with two youths and was reported to police, but he had no previous offences and agreed to attend the course, sources said. The police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), will formally investigate the handling of his gun licence by police.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/13/plymouth-shooting-police-reinstated-gunmans-firearms-licence-last-month?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
We’re talking about a very small subset of people with mental health problems who resort to violence, but better mental health services benefit all.
Might it have made a difference with this guy ? Who knows.
But he was clearly very disturbed:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/13/plymouth-shooting-suspect-what-we-know-jake-davison
Apparently the story Is a true recollection by Jackson Browne. But it was neither in Winslow, Arizona nor a flatbed Ford (but a small Datsun pickup). They were changed as they scanned better.
Either way, I am not sure of your point.
No one can know whether it would have helped or not. But if you can't get an appointment then no one will even be able to venture a guess. And there are vast numbers waiting, stewing, and liable to boil over.
Of course, the wealthy can pay. But even they are hitting the limits as every single qualified therapist is full and exhausted from 18 months of pandemic trauma.
He was obviously very disturbed but he should have been locked up. Now, that’s easy to say in hindsight so I wouldn’t criticise anyone but his mental health issues are very different to those that the issue is usually raised. That’s why Starmer should be wary about this because generally I’d imagine there isn’t much appetite for being back lunatic asylums even if there is a case for them.
They still exist though.
What new evidence are you presenting ?
A lab leak, as I’ve said many times is a possibility. It remains that.
And no, it didn’t come from a soup in a market. Indeed genetic analysis of the first detected cases - in two markets, not one - showed the virus was genetically distinct between each market. So it’s highly likely there was a prior common source not in either market.
The Embarek interview is months old. I haven’t seen it, but is it anything more than him hypothesising and arguing the lab leak hypothesis should be investigated - which I don’t disagree with ?
As people point out Trump wanted to withdraw the troops too but he didn't do so Biden did. Could prove very costly. Let's hope not.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-53191161
The answer is pretty clearly far earlier than when they were still exerting full diplomatic pressure to maintain international flights. Which as far I’m concerned, makes the crisis an act of biological warfare whatever the origins of the virus outbreak.
That it came from a lab just makes it worse. I find the apologists for the CCP so difficult to understand but I do have to take pause and remember that not everyone has seen it up close and personal.
With hindsight it would have been better for him to be locked up, but was there anything in advance to justify taking away his liberty? So far there is no evidence of that.
Sectioning to treat someone against there will is something that is reserved only for where there is a danger to the patient or to others, and is subject to review.
Yes, mental health has long been a cinderella service in the NHS. I am not sure that will ever change, despite the slow changes in attitudes in recent years.
Shades of no more boom and bust.
We once solved this via two methods. Firstly, we ensured most men were more higher status economically than most women by depriving women of opportunity.
Secondly, we restricted humans natural polygamy via Christian monogamy. That meant the women that would naturally have been second and third wives of high status men instead settled for mid status men instead. And the women that would have been wives of mid status men instead settled for low status men. But now monogamy has partially broken down for sequential polygamy, where high status men can have a string of hookups with multiple women duped into believing they might be their wives someday. That leaves a sparseness of women left over for low status men.
No one is entitled to a companion or to sex.
in 2019 there were 159,745 firearm certificates and 572,488 shotgun certificates on issue. There were however estimated to be 4 million guns in britain.
If you want a gun and dont care about illegallity they are relatively easy to come by. I am pretty sure if he hadnt had a gun license he would still have been able to obtain a gun. So all tightening up does is penalise people who aren't misusing them
Sure, no one is entitled to such but most desire it, so a lack even by their own fault causes problems as people react to not achieving things they desire.
Even if you disagree with that theory I don't see how you got a presumption of entitlement from it. Person wants X but does not get it and so lashes out works far beyond matters of sex.
I made the assumption they did some research but then its the mirror so....
I can't see much pushback on further tightening. Most people dont have a gun or even know someone who does, even if your figure is correct, so they won't mind it being even harder.
Canada plans to resettle more than 20,000 vulnerable Afghans including women leaders, human rights workers and reporters to protect them from Taliban reprisals, Immigration Minister Marco Mendicino said on Friday. https://t.co/qLJLHX7Osm
EDIT: Here's a link I suppose https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/21/11/2047/1147770
* there are a number of severe mitochondrial genetic diseases.