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  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    YoungTurk said:

    On-topic, because it's about the idea of experimentation, lol:

    FPT

    "I'm not taking part in this vaccine experiment"

    You are. You're the control group.
    Currently around 10% in the UK
    ....and 80% in ICU


    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1421527009549856772?s=20

    This is getting crazy. Some anti-vaxers say the state wants to get rid of them so that there is no unvaxed control group to compare the vaxed with, and now anti-anti-vaxers are telling anti-vaxers that they've got news for them and in fact they ARE the control group. Few on either side understand where the other side is coming from.
    Also, if the state was going to exterminate one group, it wouldn’t be the compliant group who did what they were told.
    It makes you wonder why the Democrat administration of America is so anxious to get all those Trump republicans vaxxed.

    To stop them getting ill and dying?
    LOL
    Some people care about their fellow human beings. You’re not one of them.
    The notion that Democrats 'care' about the health of Trumpist Republicans is one of the more interesting delusions I have read on here.
    Hardly delusional. My wife is a registered Democrat and I confirm she cares more about her fellow human beings, including Republicans many of whom are in her family, than you probably care about any other person.
  • Fuck you Fernando.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954

    DougSeal said:

    WTF does the below sentence even mean? I’m saving this for the next time TSE extols the superiority of a Cambridge education-

    A consultative referendum will be argued it is lawful for Betfair’s rules.”

    May my humble Oxford educated self suggest it should perhaps read -

    It will doubtless be argued that a consultative referendum is lawful for the purposes of Betfair’s rules.”

    ?

    Shouldn't you at least be able to write coherently before you're let in to either of those places?
    Never stopped me.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    ydoethur said:

    To all trying to engage with the troll:

    I admire your patience, but it’s pointless. He will never admit a lie, a mistake, or a wrong assumption.

    And he gets very nasty when reality is brought in, and whines about being told off.

    Just ignore.

    These were articles of faith on here just months ago.

    No scientists have an agenda that's not science.
    Lockdowns are necessary and useful.

    Now, you would struggle to find a single advocate for a policy that was defended to the hilt only weeks ago, and you would struggle to find a single poster who didn't look sideways at some scientists.

    Most opinions have shifted 180. I have never changed mine. Why wouldn't I challenge every single thing that's taken as an article of faith on here??
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,304

    Fuck you Fernando.

    That was moderately entertaining. Funny how a track with a bad reputation actually produces good racing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,441

    COVID-19 hospitalizations in Florida have reached the highest level since July 2020. At the current rate it will reach the all-time high within 4 days

    Case rises in Florida are caused by the wrong kind of reality. Hence they are not applicable.
    Delta cases are rising pretty much everywhere in the US, right?

    Yes, I believe so. The hospitalisation and death rates are not rising evenly though. In some places, something is reducing the ratios between cases, hospitalisation and death....

    Presumably Hot Broth and Intravenous Jif.....
    I don't doubt the vaccinations are working. I am not sure they are everything they are claimed to be, however.
    According to various studies conducted in the UK, Canada, UK and elsewhere, the various vaccines are performing pretty much exactly in "real life" as they performed in their trials against death, hospitalisation and symptoms, against the original variants.

    Delta has altered that a bit, but after completed vaccination, not very much.
  • tlg86 said:

    Fuck you Fernando.

    That was moderately entertaining. Funny how a track with a bad reputation actually produces good racing.
    Yup.

    I reckon but for Alonso then Hamilton would have won this race.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,604
    edited August 2021
    24,470 cases, 65 deaths
  • TresTres Posts: 682
    Leon said:

    Talking of population growth (as we were), here’s an impressive example of experts getting predictions utterly wrong. This is the UN’s central projection for the UK population back in 1998


    ‘Scenario I, which is the medium variant of the 1998 United Nations projections, assumes a total of 1.2 million net migrants between 1995 and 2050. From 1995 to 2025, 40,000 persons would enter Britain annually and none after 2025. The overall population of the United Kingdom would increase from 58.3 million in 1995 to 59.9 million in 2025 and thereafter decline to 56.6 million in 2050’

    As of July 2021 the UK population is 68,200,000

    https://www.un.org/en/development/desa/population/publications/pdf/ageing/replacement-chap4-uk.pdf

    And here's an impressive example of a writer getting statistics utterly wrong.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 42,563

    COVID-19 hospitalizations in Florida have reached the highest level since July 2020. At the current rate it will reach the all-time high within 4 days

    Case rises in Florida are caused by the wrong kind of reality. Hence they are not applicable.
    De Santis is a fan of vaccination and the Florida vaccination rates are not particularly low.

    I guess I can see the bitterness. Many haven't forgiven De Santis for destroying the cheished argument that lockdowns are useful and necessary.

    I guess the Telegraph report that 1 in four hospitalisations for covid are at least questionable on that basis must also be hard to take.

    Its always difficult when things that are conventional wisdom and articles of faith are challenged.
    Covid case rates are a consequence of the number of people with antibodies. Florida has decent (I.e average) levels of antibodies via vaccination, but because they largely escaped the plague before, they have fewer via infection.

    How many of the top ten states by vaccination are in the top ten states for infection? And Vice versa?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,604
    edited August 2021
    Just made the mistake of putting the Hundred on BBC...the commentary is awful.

    Its like they are still doing Test Match Special and trying to fill dead air, talking about peoples shoes, while the ball is getting smashed to the boundary. Then oh its hard been a spinner in first few overs....no that's the current precieved wisdom as the superior approach (match up dependent).
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    YoungTurk said:

    On-topic, because it's about the idea of experimentation, lol:

    FPT

    "I'm not taking part in this vaccine experiment"

    You are. You're the control group.
    Currently around 10% in the UK
    ....and 80% in ICU


    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1421527009549856772?s=20

    This is getting crazy. Some anti-vaxers say the state wants to get rid of them so that there is no unvaxed control group to compare the vaxed with, and now anti-anti-vaxers are telling anti-vaxers that they've got news for them and in fact they ARE the control group. Few on either side understand where the other side is coming from.
    Also, if the state was going to exterminate one group, it wouldn’t be the compliant group who did what they were told.
    It makes you wonder why the Democrat administration of America is so anxious to get all those Trump republicans vaxxed.

    To stop them getting ill and dying?
    LOL
    Some people care about their fellow human beings. You’re not one of them.
    The notion that Democrats 'care' about the health of Trumpist Republicans is one of the more interesting delusions I have read on here.
    Hardly delusional. My wife is a registered Democrat and I confirm she cares more about her fellow human beings, including Republicans many of whom are in her family, than you probably care about any other person.
    We need hardly look further than the appalling case of the Lambeth care homes to find out how much the left 'care' about their fellow human beings.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 45,001

    ydoethur said:

    To all trying to engage with the troll:

    I admire your patience, but it’s pointless. He will never admit a lie, a mistake, or a wrong assumption.

    And he gets very nasty when reality is brought in, and whines about being told off.

    Just ignore.

    These were articles of faith on here just months ago.

    No scientists have an agenda that's not science.
    Lockdowns are necessary and useful.

    Now, you would struggle to find a single advocate for a policy that was defended to the hilt only weeks ago, and you would struggle to find a single poster who didn't look sideways at some scientists.

    Most opinions have shifted 180. I have never changed mine. Why wouldn't I challenge every single thing that's taken as an article of faith on here??
    No, you’ve never changed your views, apart from now forcing an extension of the lockdowns you profess to despise.

    You’re also still talking worthless bullshit while bullying others and whining about receiving entirely legitimate criticism for your lies and falsifications.

    You have neither courage nor integrity, nor have you ever said anything worth listening to.

    Frankly, you’re a dead loss as far as discussion goes.

    Which is why I’m advising everyone to ignore you.

    Which is what I will be doing again on this thread, although I’ve no doubt you’ll be your usual abusive and dishonest self in response to this post.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954

    24,470 cases, 65 deaths

    I fully expect cases to go up at some point but one thing I can say, however you interprets the data, is that nearly 2 weeks 19 July did not result in the doomsday many were predicting. I was not a doomsdayer but I’ll readily admit to being incredibly nervous.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    To all trying to engage with the troll:

    I admire your patience, but it’s pointless. He will never admit a lie, a mistake, or a wrong assumption.

    And he gets very nasty when reality is brought in, and whines about being told off.

    Just ignore.

    These were articles of faith on here just months ago.

    No scientists have an agenda that's not science.
    Lockdowns are necessary and useful.

    Now, you would struggle to find a single advocate for a policy that was defended to the hilt only weeks ago, and you would struggle to find a single poster who didn't look sideways at some scientists.

    Most opinions have shifted 180. I have never changed mine. Why wouldn't I challenge every single thing that's taken as an article of faith on here??
    No, you’ve never changed your views, apart from now forcing an extension of the lockdowns you profess to despise.

    You’re also still talking worthless bullshit while bullying others and whining about receiving entirely legitimate criticism for your lies and falsifications.

    You have neither courage nor integrity, nor have you ever said anything worth listening to.

    Frankly, you’re a dead loss as far as discussion goes.

    Which is why I’m advising everyone to ignore you.

    Which is what I will be doing again on this thread, although I’ve no doubt you’ll be your usual abusive and dishonest self in response to this post.
    And you have simply given up defending whatever position you had because, frankly, that position has disintegrated.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,920

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    YoungTurk said:

    On-topic, because it's about the idea of experimentation, lol:

    FPT

    "I'm not taking part in this vaccine experiment"

    You are. You're the control group.
    Currently around 10% in the UK
    ....and 80% in ICU


    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1421527009549856772?s=20

    This is getting crazy. Some anti-vaxers say the state wants to get rid of them so that there is no unvaxed control group to compare the vaxed with, and now anti-anti-vaxers are telling anti-vaxers that they've got news for them and in fact they ARE the control group. Few on either side understand where the other side is coming from.
    Also, if the state was going to exterminate one group, it wouldn’t be the compliant group who did what they were told.
    It makes you wonder why the Democrat administration of America is so anxious to get all those Trump republicans vaxxed.

    To stop them getting ill and dying?
    LOL
    Some people care about their fellow human beings. You’re not one of them.
    I don't really care about other people, so much as I find piles of dead bodies in the street really, really untidy. This is why I support a welfare state. It reduces my need to put a hanky over my nose when having a morning coffee outside an otherwise excellent cafe.

    Similarly, I don't want to anti-vexers to die. Partly because I don't want to run out of fools to take the piss out of, partly because I really, really hate undertakers. And want them to all go out of business.
    Besides, one might be in the early stages of dying at the table next to you in the cafe and give the bug to you - potentially nasty even for the vaccinated.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    YoungTurk said:

    On-topic, because it's about the idea of experimentation, lol:

    FPT

    "I'm not taking part in this vaccine experiment"

    You are. You're the control group.
    Currently around 10% in the UK
    ....and 80% in ICU


    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1421527009549856772?s=20

    This is getting crazy. Some anti-vaxers say the state wants to get rid of them so that there is no unvaxed control group to compare the vaxed with, and now anti-anti-vaxers are telling anti-vaxers that they've got news for them and in fact they ARE the control group. Few on either side understand where the other side is coming from.
    Also, if the state was going to exterminate one group, it wouldn’t be the compliant group who did what they were told.
    It makes you wonder why the Democrat administration of America is so anxious to get all those Trump republicans vaxxed.

    To stop them getting ill and dying?
    LOL
    Some people care about their fellow human beings. You’re not one of them.
    The notion that Democrats 'care' about the health of Trumpist Republicans is one of the more interesting delusions I have read on here.
    Hardly delusional. My wife is a registered Democrat and I confirm she cares more about her fellow human beings, including Republicans many of whom are in her family, than you probably care about any other person.
    We need hardly look further than the appalling case of the Lambeth care homes to find out how much the left 'care' about their fellow human beings.
    WTF has that got to do with vaccination in the USA?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 45,001
    Well done M. Ocon.

    Ruthless exploitation of Mercedes’ incompetence on all levels.

    But what a drive.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,441
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    To all trying to engage with the troll:

    I admire your patience, but it’s pointless. He will never admit a lie, a mistake, or a wrong assumption.

    And he gets very nasty when reality is brought in, and whines about being told off.

    Just ignore.

    These were articles of faith on here just months ago.

    No scientists have an agenda that's not science.
    Lockdowns are necessary and useful.

    Now, you would struggle to find a single advocate for a policy that was defended to the hilt only weeks ago, and you would struggle to find a single poster who didn't look sideways at some scientists.

    Most opinions have shifted 180. I have never changed mine. Why wouldn't I challenge every single thing that's taken as an article of faith on here??
    No, you’ve never changed your views, apart from now forcing an extension of the lockdowns you profess to despise.

    You’re also still talking worthless bullshit while bullying others and whining about receiving entirely legitimate criticism for your lies and falsifications.

    You have neither courage nor integrity, nor have you ever said anything worth listening to.

    Frankly, you’re a dead loss as far as discussion goes.

    Which is why I’m advising everyone to ignore you.

    Which is what I will be doing again on this thread, although I’ve no doubt you’ll be your usual abusive and dishonest self in response to this post.
    I feel that you should really express yourself on this matter and not hold back.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 45,001

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    To all trying to engage with the troll:

    I admire your patience, but it’s pointless. He will never admit a lie, a mistake, or a wrong assumption.

    And he gets very nasty when reality is brought in, and whines about being told off.

    Just ignore.

    These were articles of faith on here just months ago.

    No scientists have an agenda that's not science.
    Lockdowns are necessary and useful.

    Now, you would struggle to find a single advocate for a policy that was defended to the hilt only weeks ago, and you would struggle to find a single poster who didn't look sideways at some scientists.

    Most opinions have shifted 180. I have never changed mine. Why wouldn't I challenge every single thing that's taken as an article of faith on here??
    No, you’ve never changed your views, apart from now forcing an extension of the lockdowns you profess to despise.

    You’re also still talking worthless bullshit while bullying others and whining about receiving entirely legitimate criticism for your lies and falsifications.

    You have neither courage nor integrity, nor have you ever said anything worth listening to.

    Frankly, you’re a dead loss as far as discussion goes.

    Which is why I’m advising everyone to ignore you.

    Which is what I will be doing again on this thread, although I’ve no doubt you’ll be your usual abusive and dishonest self in response to this post.
    I feel that you should really express yourself on this matter and not hold back.
    But I’d get banned for calling him out properly. And who would then provide you with awesome puns?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    To all trying to engage with the troll:

    I admire your patience, but it’s pointless. He will never admit a lie, a mistake, or a wrong assumption.

    And he gets very nasty when reality is brought in, and whines about being told off.

    Just ignore.

    These were articles of faith on here just months ago.

    No scientists have an agenda that's not science.
    Lockdowns are necessary and useful.

    Now, you would struggle to find a single advocate for a policy that was defended to the hilt only weeks ago, and you would struggle to find a single poster who didn't look sideways at some scientists.

    Most opinions have shifted 180. I have never changed mine. Why wouldn't I challenge every single thing that's taken as an article of faith on here??
    No, you’ve never changed your views, apart from now forcing an extension of the lockdowns you profess to despise.

    You’re also still talking worthless bullshit while bullying others and whining about receiving entirely legitimate criticism for your lies and falsifications.

    You have neither courage nor integrity, nor have you ever said anything worth listening to.

    Frankly, you’re a dead loss as far as discussion goes.

    Which is why I’m advising everyone to ignore you.

    Which is what I will be doing again on this thread, although I’ve no doubt you’ll be your usual abusive and dishonest self in response to this post.
    I feel that you should really express yourself on this matter and not hold back.
    But I’d get banned for calling him out properly. And who would then provide you with awesome puns?
    Go for it. With my unparalleled legal brain I will overturn any ban within minutes ;)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,441
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    To all trying to engage with the troll:

    I admire your patience, but it’s pointless. He will never admit a lie, a mistake, or a wrong assumption.

    And he gets very nasty when reality is brought in, and whines about being told off.

    Just ignore.

    These were articles of faith on here just months ago.

    No scientists have an agenda that's not science.
    Lockdowns are necessary and useful.

    Now, you would struggle to find a single advocate for a policy that was defended to the hilt only weeks ago, and you would struggle to find a single poster who didn't look sideways at some scientists.

    Most opinions have shifted 180. I have never changed mine. Why wouldn't I challenge every single thing that's taken as an article of faith on here??
    No, you’ve never changed your views, apart from now forcing an extension of the lockdowns you profess to despise.

    You’re also still talking worthless bullshit while bullying others and whining about receiving entirely legitimate criticism for your lies and falsifications.

    You have neither courage nor integrity, nor have you ever said anything worth listening to.

    Frankly, you’re a dead loss as far as discussion goes.

    Which is why I’m advising everyone to ignore you.

    Which is what I will be doing again on this thread, although I’ve no doubt you’ll be your usual abusive and dishonest self in response to this post.
    I feel that you should really express yourself on this matter and not hold back.
    But I’d get banned for calling him out properly. And who would then provide you with awesome puns?
    While you're at it, say how you really feel about Gavin Williamson. I always felt you held back, there....
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954
    Anyhow, a 16% drop in cases from last Sunday. That’s not as fast as before but frankly if it had kept at that rate even I would have been accusing someone of cooking the books. Positivity dropping too,
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,604
    edited August 2021
    DougSeal said:

    24,470 cases, 65 deaths

    I fully expect cases to go up at some point but one thing I can say, however you interprets the data, is that nearly 2 weeks 19 July did not result in the doomsday many were predicting. I was not a doomsdayer but I’ll readily admit to being incredibly nervous.
    I think delta is so easily spread, nightclubs is really the only change that would massively effect the numbers...it may also be that depsite all the moaning about the pingdemic, that having all those people isolate might be helping keep a lid on things (although its a very blunt approach and not sustainable long term).
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    To all trying to engage with the troll:

    I admire your patience, but it’s pointless. He will never admit a lie, a mistake, or a wrong assumption.

    And he gets very nasty when reality is brought in, and whines about being told off.

    Just ignore.

    These were articles of faith on here just months ago.

    No scientists have an agenda that's not science.
    Lockdowns are necessary and useful.

    Now, you would struggle to find a single advocate for a policy that was defended to the hilt only weeks ago, and you would struggle to find a single poster who didn't look sideways at some scientists.

    Most opinions have shifted 180. I have never changed mine. Why wouldn't I challenge every single thing that's taken as an article of faith on here??
    No, you’ve never changed your views, apart from now forcing an extension of the lockdowns you profess to despise.

    You’re also still talking worthless bullshit while bullying others and whining about receiving entirely legitimate criticism for your lies and falsifications.

    You have neither courage nor integrity, nor have you ever said anything worth listening to.

    Frankly, you’re a dead loss as far as discussion goes.

    Which is why I’m advising everyone to ignore you.

    Which is what I will be doing again on this thread, although I’ve no doubt you’ll be your usual abusive and dishonest self in response to this post.
    I feel that you should really express yourself on this matter and not hold back.
    But I’d get banned for calling him out properly. And who would then provide you with awesome puns?
    While you're at it, say how you really feel about Gavin Williamson. I always felt you held back, there....
    Yeah, I always thought there was something he needed to get off his chest.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,365
    lol I note Redbull's 3rd car nicked Hamilton's fastest lap point.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954

    DougSeal said:

    24,470 cases, 65 deaths

    I fully expect cases to go up at some point but one thing I can say, however you interprets the data, is that nearly 2 weeks 19 July did not result in the doomsday many were predicting. I was not a doomsdayer but I’ll readily admit to being incredibly nervous.
    I think delta is so easily spread, nightclubs is really the only change that would massively effect the numbers...it may also be that depsite all the moaning about the pingdemic, that having all those people isolate might be helping keep a lid on things (although its a very blunt approach and not sustainable long term).
    I think that’s a factor. Also people modifying their behaviour. And, let’s face it, ave very high rates of vaccination and having been absolutely clobbered in previous waves can’t hurt either.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,604
    edited August 2021
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    24,470 cases, 65 deaths

    I fully expect cases to go up at some point but one thing I can say, however you interprets the data, is that nearly 2 weeks 19 July did not result in the doomsday many were predicting. I was not a doomsdayer but I’ll readily admit to being incredibly nervous.
    I think delta is so easily spread, nightclubs is really the only change that would massively effect the numbers...it may also be that depsite all the moaning about the pingdemic, that having all those people isolate might be helping keep a lid on things (although its a very blunt approach and not sustainable long term).
    I think that’s a factor. Also people modifying their behaviour. And, let’s face it, ave very high rates of vaccination and having been absolutely clobbered in previous waves can’t hurt either.
    Oh yes i think that too...and no schools and people on holidays.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,920
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    To all trying to engage with the troll:

    I admire your patience, but it’s pointless. He will never admit a lie, a mistake, or a wrong assumption.

    And he gets very nasty when reality is brought in, and whines about being told off.

    Just ignore.

    These were articles of faith on here just months ago.

    No scientists have an agenda that's not science.
    Lockdowns are necessary and useful.

    Now, you would struggle to find a single advocate for a policy that was defended to the hilt only weeks ago, and you would struggle to find a single poster who didn't look sideways at some scientists.

    Most opinions have shifted 180. I have never changed mine. Why wouldn't I challenge every single thing that's taken as an article of faith on here??
    No, you’ve never changed your views, apart from now forcing an extension of the lockdowns you profess to despise.

    You’re also still talking worthless bullshit while bullying others and whining about receiving entirely legitimate criticism for your lies and falsifications.

    You have neither courage nor integrity, nor have you ever said anything worth listening to.

    Frankly, you’re a dead loss as far as discussion goes.

    Which is why I’m advising everyone to ignore you.

    Which is what I will be doing again on this thread, although I’ve no doubt you’ll be your usual abusive and dishonest self in response to this post.
    I feel that you should really express yourself on this matter and not hold back.
    But I’d get banned for calling him out properly. And who would then provide you with awesome puns?
    While you're at it, say how you really feel about Gavin Williamson. I always felt you held back, there....
    Yeah, I always thought there was something he needed to get off his chest.
    Did Ydoethur see the spider sacrifice stuff yesterday, I wonder? Very evocative of tarantula deities. (decapitator Moche ritual refers for google purposes.)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,604
    edited August 2021
    Hawkeye failed on crucial ball....defund Hawkeye.....
  • Hatun Tash is back at speakers corner a week after being stabbed still wearing a Charlie Hebdo T-shirt … high police presence …. #SpeakersCorner https://t.co/2OJoWCyKSY
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954
    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    To all trying to engage with the troll:

    I admire your patience, but it’s pointless. He will never admit a lie, a mistake, or a wrong assumption.

    And he gets very nasty when reality is brought in, and whines about being told off.

    Just ignore.

    These were articles of faith on here just months ago.

    No scientists have an agenda that's not science.
    Lockdowns are necessary and useful.

    Now, you would struggle to find a single advocate for a policy that was defended to the hilt only weeks ago, and you would struggle to find a single poster who didn't look sideways at some scientists.

    Most opinions have shifted 180. I have never changed mine. Why wouldn't I challenge every single thing that's taken as an article of faith on here??
    No, you’ve never changed your views, apart from now forcing an extension of the lockdowns you profess to despise.

    You’re also still talking worthless bullshit while bullying others and whining about receiving entirely legitimate criticism for your lies and falsifications.

    You have neither courage nor integrity, nor have you ever said anything worth listening to.

    Frankly, you’re a dead loss as far as discussion goes.

    Which is why I’m advising everyone to ignore you.

    Which is what I will be doing again on this thread, although I’ve no doubt you’ll be your usual abusive and dishonest self in response to this post.
    I feel that you should really express yourself on this matter and not hold back.
    But I’d get banned for calling him out properly. And who would then provide you with awesome puns?
    While you're at it, say how you really feel about Gavin Williamson. I always felt you held back, there....
    Yeah, I always thought there was something he needed to get off his chest.
    Did Ydoethur see the spider sacrifice stuff yesterday, I wonder? Very evocative of tarantula deities. (decapitator Moche ritual refers for google purposes.)
    While Ydoethur is an amiable chap I would not give him ideas when it comes to that individual.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,778
    Incredible driving from Alonso. Very solid from Ocon too.

    My bet was red but given the forecast was for it to be dry I think that can be forgiven.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 3,513

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    YoungTurk said:

    On-topic, because it's about the idea of experimentation, lol:

    FPT

    "I'm not taking part in this vaccine experiment"

    You are. You're the control group.
    Currently around 10% in the UK
    ....and 80% in ICU


    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1421527009549856772?s=20

    This is getting crazy. Some anti-vaxers say the state wants to get rid of them so that there is no unvaxed control group to compare the vaxed with, and now anti-anti-vaxers are telling anti-vaxers that they've got news for them and in fact they ARE the control group. Few on either side understand where the other side is coming from.
    Also, if the state was going to exterminate one group, it wouldn’t be the compliant group who did what they were told.
    It makes you wonder why the Democrat administration of America is so anxious to get all those Trump republicans vaxxed.

    To stop them getting ill and dying?
    LOL
    Some people care about their fellow human beings. You’re not one of them.
    The notion that Democrats 'care' about the health of Trumpist Republicans is one of the more interesting delusions I have read on here.
    Hardly delusional. My wife is a registered Democrat and I confirm she cares more about her fellow human beings, including Republicans many of whom are in her family, than you probably care about any other person.
    We need hardly look further than the appalling case of the Lambeth care homes to find out how much the left 'care' about their fellow human beings.
    Wow. In the league table of non-sequiturs, that's pretty high up there.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,365
    Alpine F1 can get their covid outbreak done and dusted during the F1 break now.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 45,001
    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    To all trying to engage with the troll:

    I admire your patience, but it’s pointless. He will never admit a lie, a mistake, or a wrong assumption.

    And he gets very nasty when reality is brought in, and whines about being told off.

    Just ignore.

    These were articles of faith on here just months ago.

    No scientists have an agenda that's not science.
    Lockdowns are necessary and useful.

    Now, you would struggle to find a single advocate for a policy that was defended to the hilt only weeks ago, and you would struggle to find a single poster who didn't look sideways at some scientists.

    Most opinions have shifted 180. I have never changed mine. Why wouldn't I challenge every single thing that's taken as an article of faith on here??
    No, you’ve never changed your views, apart from now forcing an extension of the lockdowns you profess to despise.

    You’re also still talking worthless bullshit while bullying others and whining about receiving entirely legitimate criticism for your lies and falsifications.

    You have neither courage nor integrity, nor have you ever said anything worth listening to.

    Frankly, you’re a dead loss as far as discussion goes.

    Which is why I’m advising everyone to ignore you.

    Which is what I will be doing again on this thread, although I’ve no doubt you’ll be your usual abusive and dishonest self in response to this post.
    I feel that you should really express yourself on this matter and not hold back.
    But I’d get banned for calling him out properly. And who would then provide you with awesome puns?
    While you're at it, say how you really feel about Gavin Williamson. I always felt you held back, there....
    Yeah, I always thought there was something he needed to get off his chest.
    Did Ydoethur see the spider sacrifice stuff yesterday, I wonder? Very evocative of tarantula deities. (decapitator Moche ritual refers for google purposes.)
    While Ydoethur is an amiable chap I would not give him ideas when it comes to that individual.
    Particularly since I live ten minutes’ drive from him...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,441
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,441
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100K

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,441
    England PCR positivity

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,441
    UK case summary

    image
    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,441
    UK hospitals

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,441
    UK deaths

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,441
    UK R

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,441
    Age related data

    image
    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,441
    Age related data scaled to 100K

    image
    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,441
    Vaccinations

    image
  • Lewis Hamilton looks like he's about to keel over.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,441
    Case rate changes

    image
    image
    image
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 45,001

    Lewis Hamilton looks like he's about to keel over.

    It’s nice to see a race winner who’s actually happy, though.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,165
    Hell of a race. I texted a friend as they were going round after the red flag saying "would be funny if everyone pitted and left one driver on his own for the grid restart"...and that actually happened!! Indianapolis 2005 levels of bizarre.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,778
    Mr. Flare, that crossed my mind too, but this was even weirder.

    On pace, he could've still had the win, if it hadn't been for that pesky Spaniard.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,801
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    YoungTurk said:

    On-topic, because it's about the idea of experimentation, lol:

    FPT

    "I'm not taking part in this vaccine experiment"

    You are. You're the control group.
    Currently around 10% in the UK
    ....and 80% in ICU


    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1421527009549856772?s=20

    This is getting crazy. Some anti-vaxers say the state wants to get rid of them so that there is no unvaxed control group to compare the vaxed with, and now anti-anti-vaxers are telling anti-vaxers that they've got news for them and in fact they ARE the control group. Few on either side understand where the other side is coming from.
    Also, if the state was going to exterminate one group, it wouldn’t be the compliant group who did what they were told.
    It makes you wonder why the Democrat administration of America is so anxious to get all those Trump republicans vaxxed.

    To stop them getting ill and dying?
    LOL
    Some people care about their fellow human beings. You’re not one of them.
    That’s a bit harsh. Contrarian might be immoral but he’s still a fellow human being.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 45,001

    Hell of a race. I texted a friend as they were going round after the red flag saying "would be funny if everyone pitted and left one driver on his own for the grid restart"...and that actually happened!! Indianapolis 2005 levels of bizarre.

    Well, they had to think of some way to let Schumacher have a win.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 1,663
    What a great F1 race.

    Is Hamilton OK? Looked seriously exhausted and unwell on that podium - like he was struggling for breath
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 45,001

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    YoungTurk said:

    On-topic, because it's about the idea of experimentation, lol:

    FPT

    "I'm not taking part in this vaccine experiment"

    You are. You're the control group.
    Currently around 10% in the UK
    ....and 80% in ICU


    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1421527009549856772?s=20

    This is getting crazy. Some anti-vaxers say the state wants to get rid of them so that there is no unvaxed control group to compare the vaxed with, and now anti-anti-vaxers are telling anti-vaxers that they've got news for them and in fact they ARE the control group. Few on either side understand where the other side is coming from.
    Also, if the state was going to exterminate one group, it wouldn’t be the compliant group who did what they were told.
    It makes you wonder why the Democrat administration of America is so anxious to get all those Trump republicans vaxxed.

    To stop them getting ill and dying?
    LOL
    Some people care about their fellow human beings. You’re not one of them.
    That’s a bit harsh. Contrarian might be immoral but he’s still a fellow human being.
    Are you sure? Might be a server in Yekaterinburg.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,604
    edited August 2021
    Israel now provides vaccination status among new coronavirus cases and those who are seriously ill.

    New cases (Sat):
    - Unvaccinated: 1,006
    - Partially vaccinated: 39
    - Fully vaccinated: 1,049

    Seriously ill:
    - Unvaccinated: 71
    - Partially vaccinated: 7
    - Fully vaccinated: 133

    Come on PHE..... although you can see how the above will be spun by antivaxxers.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,778
    F1: post-race ramble, including the quite interesting updated Constructor standings:
    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2021/08/hungary-post-race-analysis-2021.html
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 14,973
    DougSeal said:

    WTF does the below sentence even mean? I’m saving this for the next time TSE extols the superiority of a Cambridge education-

    A consultative referendum will be argued it is lawful for Betfair’s rules.”

    May my humble Oxford educated self suggest it should perhaps read -

    It will doubtless be argued that a consultative referendum is lawful for the purposes of Betfair’s rules.”

    ?

    There should be a comma after 'lawful' in your sentence. And I'd be tempted to put the 'for the purposes of Betfair's rules' bit at the beginning. From an ever so 'umble graduate of one of London University's more average colleges.
  • Israel now provides vaccination status among new coronavirus cases and those who are seriously ill.

    New cases (Sat):
    - Unvaccinated: 1,006
    - Partially vaccinated: 39
    - Fully vaccinated: 1,049

    Seriously ill:
    - Unvaccinated: 71
    - Partially vaccinated: 7
    - Fully vaccinated: 133

    Come on PHE..... although you can see how the above will be spun by antivaxxers.

    It's obviously best to be partially vaccinated
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,330
    edited August 2021
    I wasn't watching, but the way this is reported makes it sound lovely, but was it out of sportsmanship? I mean, had they gone to a jump-off presumably one of them would have missed out on the gold, so avoiding that took away the risk for either. So even if they were being entirely noble, they happened to benefit.

    An incredible Olympic high jump final ended with both Qatar's Mutaz Essa Barshim and Italy's Gianmarco Tamberi taking gold medals...

    The athletes were offered an opportunity to take part in a jump-off.

    But in a moment of sportsmanship, they agreed to share the title, sparking huge celebrations
    .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/58048827
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,778
    Mr. kle4, aye.

    "You can have a million pounds. Or flip a coin, and, if it's heads, you get half that."
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954

    DougSeal said:

    WTF does the below sentence even mean? I’m saving this for the next time TSE extols the superiority of a Cambridge education-

    A consultative referendum will be argued it is lawful for Betfair’s rules.”

    May my humble Oxford educated self suggest it should perhaps read -

    It will doubtless be argued that a consultative referendum is lawful for the purposes of Betfair’s rules.”

    ?

    There should be a comma after 'lawful' in your sentence. And I'd be tempted to put the 'for the purposes of Betfair's rules' bit at the beginning. From an ever so 'umble graduate of one of London University's more average colleges.
    Yes, yes, look I’m a lawyer, we have no need for clear and precise English.
  • kle4 said:

    I wasn't watching, but the way this is reported makes it sound lovely, but was it out of sportsmanship? I mean, had they gone to a jump-off presumably one of them would have missed out on the gold, so avoiding that took away the risk for either. So even if they were being entirely noble, they happened to benefit.

    An incredible Olympic high jump final ended with both Qatar's Mutaz Essa Barshim and Italy's Gianmarco Tamberi taking gold medals...

    The athletes were offered an opportunity to take part in a jump-off.

    But in a moment of sportsmanship, they agreed to share the title, sparking huge celebrations
    .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/58048827

    They should each get half a gold and half a silver medal
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    YoungTurk said:

    On-topic, because it's about the idea of experimentation, lol:

    FPT

    "I'm not taking part in this vaccine experiment"

    You are. You're the control group.
    Currently around 10% in the UK
    ....and 80% in ICU


    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1421527009549856772?s=20

    This is getting crazy. Some anti-vaxers say the state wants to get rid of them so that there is no unvaxed control group to compare the vaxed with, and now anti-anti-vaxers are telling anti-vaxers that they've got news for them and in fact they ARE the control group. Few on either side understand where the other side is coming from.
    Also, if the state was going to exterminate one group, it wouldn’t be the compliant group who did what they were told.
    It makes you wonder why the Democrat administration of America is so anxious to get all those Trump republicans vaxxed.

    To stop them getting ill and dying?
    LOL
    Some people care about their fellow human beings. You’re not one of them.
    That’s a bit harsh. Contrarian might be immoral but he’s still a fellow human being.
    Good point, well made.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,165
    ydoethur said:

    Hell of a race. I texted a friend as they were going round after the red flag saying "would be funny if everyone pitted and left one driver on his own for the grid restart"...and that actually happened!! Indianapolis 2005 levels of bizarre.

    Well, they had to think of some way to let Schumacher have a win.
    I seem to remember there was a similar-ish situation in a Moto GP race relatively recently in changeable conditions where a bunch of riders changed bikes on the formation lap, but this was deemed unfair to the one who didn't (Jack Miller?) so they basically made up a hasty rule that said Miller could start from the front on his own and the rest all hard to start from several rows back. Or something. It was almost as funny as today's restart.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,778
    Ms. Livermore, an electrum medal?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 11,496
    edited August 2021
    kle4 said:

    I wasn't watching, but the way this is reported makes it sound lovely, but was it out of sportsmanship? I mean, had they gone to a jump-off presumably one of them would have missed out on the gold, so avoiding that took away the risk for either. So even if they were being entirely noble, they happened to benefit.

    An incredible Olympic high jump final ended with both Qatar's Mutaz Essa Barshim and Italy's Gianmarco Tamberi taking gold medals...

    The athletes were offered an opportunity to take part in a jump-off.

    But in a moment of sportsmanship, they agreed to share the title, sparking huge celebrations
    .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/58048827

    They'd been at it for two hours and could not be split. My guess is they were both knackered in the Tokyo heat so any result would not have reflected their merit.

    Take an example everyone (of a certain age) remembers, the Dennis Taylor/Steve Davis snooker final. Classic. 18 million viewers staying up past midnight. But when you watch the ending on Youtube, both players are out on their feet, missing gimmes and even having trouble walking.

    Split the gold? I'd rather they came back tomorrow but that wasn't an option so why not?
  • Ms. Livermore, an electrum medal?

    I was thinking that they should get half of each medal welded together, but electrum could work
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,441
    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    YoungTurk said:

    On-topic, because it's about the idea of experimentation, lol:

    FPT

    "I'm not taking part in this vaccine experiment"

    You are. You're the control group.
    Currently around 10% in the UK
    ....and 80% in ICU


    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1421527009549856772?s=20

    This is getting crazy. Some anti-vaxers say the state wants to get rid of them so that there is no unvaxed control group to compare the vaxed with, and now anti-anti-vaxers are telling anti-vaxers that they've got news for them and in fact they ARE the control group. Few on either side understand where the other side is coming from.
    Also, if the state was going to exterminate one group, it wouldn’t be the compliant group who did what they were told.
    It makes you wonder why the Democrat administration of America is so anxious to get all those Trump republicans vaxxed.

    To stop them getting ill and dying?
    LOL
    Some people care about their fellow human beings. You’re not one of them.
    That’s a bit harsh. Contrarian might be immoral but he’s still a fellow human being.
    Are you sure? Might be a server in Yekaterinburg.
    #AI_Lives_Matter
  • ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    YoungTurk said:

    On-topic, because it's about the idea of experimentation, lol:

    FPT

    "I'm not taking part in this vaccine experiment"

    You are. You're the control group.
    Currently around 10% in the UK
    ....and 80% in ICU


    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1421527009549856772?s=20

    This is getting crazy. Some anti-vaxers say the state wants to get rid of them so that there is no unvaxed control group to compare the vaxed with, and now anti-anti-vaxers are telling anti-vaxers that they've got news for them and in fact they ARE the control group. Few on either side understand where the other side is coming from.
    Also, if the state was going to exterminate one group, it wouldn’t be the compliant group who did what they were told.
    It makes you wonder why the Democrat administration of America is so anxious to get all those Trump republicans vaxxed.

    To stop them getting ill and dying?
    LOL
    Some people care about their fellow human beings. You’re not one of them.
    That’s a bit harsh. Contrarian might be immoral but he’s still a fellow human being.
    Are you sure? Might be a server in Yekaterinburg.
    #AI_Lives_Matter
    You have an AILMent
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,042

    DavidL said:

    An alternative view on the Craig Murray case:

    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/07/31/on-forms-of-journalism/

    That really is a must read.

    Fourth the idea is bounced around and around that other journalists also ‘leaked’ the names of witnesses but went unpunished. Murray and others consistently point to Dani Garavelli as one of these citing a Panelbase poll. What’s less often noted is that Craig Murray wrote and paid for the question to be added to the poll. In other cases journalists or other individuals may have inadvertently released information and when warned then instantly apologised and deleted such material. Not so the Ambassador who when warned pressed on. There is quite a difference.
    Peatworrier got a lot of pelters for this tweet but I think it’s spot on. Murray’s actually got what he wanted, attention and Assangesque martyrdom for the cause, so a non custodial sentence might have been a better choice.

    https://twitter.com/peatworrier/status/1420845010900197379?s=21
    I read Craig Murray's pieces on the trial. They did not allow me to identify any of the complainers. Why not? Because I did not have the other parts of the jigsaw or other information which would allow me to determine the significance of what he reported. This, to me, is the fundamental problem with jigsaw identification. If it is to be determined by the Court with the benefit of hindsight and with a lot of other information that is not even in the public domain how do you anticipate that you may be offending? The answer is that you are extremely cautious and ambiguities, anomalies or just plain lies of witnesses in such cases are simply not reported because of the chilling effect of a potential jigsaw identification.

    The allegation in this case is that a number of women who were connected to the SNP in various ways along with some civil servants very close to the current First Minister got together and conspired to produce sufficient evidence that Salmond was prosecuted in the High Court. I must emphasise that I have no idea whether such an allegation is true or not but it is a very serious allegation. Where it is demonstrated that people claim to have been sexually molested at a dinner which there is no record of them even being at certain issues arise. Have they simply made a mistake as to the date or the occasion (the most likely explanation)? Have they made it up (possible, but much less common)? Have they contrived with others to create a case that damns the person alleged to be responsible (far fetched but not impossible)?

    The problem is that Murray was convinced that the last was at least a factor in this trial. He tried to show that but it is impossible to do without giving some context to the allegation. It is that context that forms the basis of the jigsaw identification.

    I remain appalled that the Supreme Court has declined to look at this. There were obvious flaws in the Court's judgment (for example, he was found guilty of something not explicitly in the petition). It is a considerable extension of the s4 with uncertain boundaries and in my view it is incompatible with Article 10 of ECHR. Definitive guidance from the Supreme Court would have been helpful in clarifying the rules and the boundaries. They may have upheld the conviction, possibly on more limited grounds. But they really should have considered it.
    Very worrying. Can the Supreme Court really have made such elementary errors? How does one go about righting such a wrong?

    Many thanks David. I deeply appreciate an expert’s assessment.
    They are instruments of the state Stuart, they ain't changing anything , both Sturgeon and British establishment wanted Murray's head for supporting Assange. We are at banana republic state now where journalists are jailed for political reasons.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 7,358

    kle4 said:

    I wasn't watching, but the way this is reported makes it sound lovely, but was it out of sportsmanship? I mean, had they gone to a jump-off presumably one of them would have missed out on the gold, so avoiding that took away the risk for either. So even if they were being entirely noble, they happened to benefit.

    An incredible Olympic high jump final ended with both Qatar's Mutaz Essa Barshim and Italy's Gianmarco Tamberi taking gold medals...

    The athletes were offered an opportunity to take part in a jump-off.

    But in a moment of sportsmanship, they agreed to share the title, sparking huge celebrations
    .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/58048827

    They'd been at it for two hours and could not be split. My guess is they were both knackered in the Tokyo heat so any result would not have reflected their merit.

    Take an example everyone (of a certain age) remembers, the Dennis Taylor/Steve Davis snooker final. Classic. 18 million viewers staying up past midnight. But when you watch the ending on Youtube, both players are out on their feet, missing gimmes and even having trouble walking.

    Split the gold? I'd rather they came back tomorrow but that wasn't an option so why not?
    Yes, didn't Davis miss an absolute sitter on the black to take the match?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 45,001
    edited August 2021

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    YoungTurk said:

    On-topic, because it's about the idea of experimentation, lol:

    FPT

    "I'm not taking part in this vaccine experiment"

    You are. You're the control group.
    Currently around 10% in the UK
    ....and 80% in ICU


    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1421527009549856772?s=20

    This is getting crazy. Some anti-vaxers say the state wants to get rid of them so that there is no unvaxed control group to compare the vaxed with, and now anti-anti-vaxers are telling anti-vaxers that they've got news for them and in fact they ARE the control group. Few on either side understand where the other side is coming from.
    Also, if the state was going to exterminate one group, it wouldn’t be the compliant group who did what they were told.
    It makes you wonder why the Democrat administration of America is so anxious to get all those Trump republicans vaxxed.

    To stop them getting ill and dying?
    LOL
    Some people care about their fellow human beings. You’re not one of them.
    That’s a bit harsh. Contrarian might be immoral but he’s still a fellow human being.
    Are you sure? Might be a server in Yekaterinburg.
    #AI_Lives_Matter
    But since this bot has never displayed conspicuous intelligence, that fails too.
  • DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    WTF does the below sentence even mean? I’m saving this for the next time TSE extols the superiority of a Cambridge education-

    A consultative referendum will be argued it is lawful for Betfair’s rules.”

    May my humble Oxford educated self suggest it should perhaps read -

    It will doubtless be argued that a consultative referendum is lawful for the purposes of Betfair’s rules.”

    ?

    There should be a comma after 'lawful' in your sentence. And I'd be tempted to put the 'for the purposes of Betfair's rules' bit at the beginning. From an ever so 'umble graduate of one of London University's more average colleges.
    Yes, yes, look I’m a lawyer, we have no need for clear and precise English.
    "You're joking - not another one!"
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,441
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    YoungTurk said:

    On-topic, because it's about the idea of experimentation, lol:

    FPT

    "I'm not taking part in this vaccine experiment"

    You are. You're the control group.
    Currently around 10% in the UK
    ....and 80% in ICU


    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1421527009549856772?s=20

    This is getting crazy. Some anti-vaxers say the state wants to get rid of them so that there is no unvaxed control group to compare the vaxed with, and now anti-anti-vaxers are telling anti-vaxers that they've got news for them and in fact they ARE the control group. Few on either side understand where the other side is coming from.
    Also, if the state was going to exterminate one group, it wouldn’t be the compliant group who did what they were told.
    It makes you wonder why the Democrat administration of America is so anxious to get all those Trump republicans vaxxed.

    To stop them getting ill and dying?
    LOL
    Some people care about their fellow human beings. You’re not one of them.
    That’s a bit harsh. Contrarian might be immoral but he’s still a fellow human being.
    Are you sure? Might be a server in Yekaterinburg.
    #AI_Lives_Matter
    But since this not has never displayed conspicuous intelligence, that fails too.
    "But this being has human shape, Gurney, and deserves human doubt."
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,304

    ydoethur said:

    Hell of a race. I texted a friend as they were going round after the red flag saying "would be funny if everyone pitted and left one driver on his own for the grid restart"...and that actually happened!! Indianapolis 2005 levels of bizarre.

    Well, they had to think of some way to let Schumacher have a win.
    I seem to remember there was a similar-ish situation in a Moto GP race relatively recently in changeable conditions where a bunch of riders changed bikes on the formation lap, but this was deemed unfair to the one who didn't (Jack Miller?) so they basically made up a hasty rule that said Miller could start from the front on his own and the rest all hard to start from several rows back. Or something. It was almost as funny as today's restart.
    It was much worse than that. Miller was the only one to opt for slicks. At the end of the formation lap, the rest of the field entered the pit lane. Instead of starting the race and making everyone else wait for tyres to be changed (a lot longer than f1), the race start was abandoned. The race started with Miller given a four row head start (basically nothing).

    It is one of the most disgraceful episodes in motorsport history.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 5,188
    edited August 2021

    Israel now provides vaccination status among new coronavirus cases and those who are seriously ill.

    New cases (Sat):
    - Unvaccinated: 1,006
    - Partially vaccinated: 39
    - Fully vaccinated: 1,049

    Seriously ill:
    - Unvaccinated: 71
    - Partially vaccinated: 7
    - Fully vaccinated: 133

    Come on PHE..... although you can see how the above will be spun by antivaxxers.

    It's obviously best to be partially vaccinated
    Yeah, those figures aren't as helpful as they might appear at first glance. What is the ratio in the population at large of vaccinated to partially vaccinated to unvaccinated and what is the age and vulnerability profile of each cohort? Then we might be able to start drawing some useful conclusions.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 45,001

    kle4 said:

    I wasn't watching, but the way this is reported makes it sound lovely, but was it out of sportsmanship? I mean, had they gone to a jump-off presumably one of them would have missed out on the gold, so avoiding that took away the risk for either. So even if they were being entirely noble, they happened to benefit.

    An incredible Olympic high jump final ended with both Qatar's Mutaz Essa Barshim and Italy's Gianmarco Tamberi taking gold medals...

    The athletes were offered an opportunity to take part in a jump-off.

    But in a moment of sportsmanship, they agreed to share the title, sparking huge celebrations
    .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/58048827

    They'd been at it for two hours and could not be split. My guess is they were both knackered in the Tokyo heat so any result would not have reflected their merit.

    Take an example everyone (of a certain age) remembers, the Dennis Taylor/Steve Davis snooker final. Classic. 18 million viewers staying up past midnight. But when you watch the ending on Youtube, both players are out on their feet, missing gimmes and even having trouble walking.

    Split the gold? I'd rather they came back tomorrow but that wasn't an option so why not?
    Yes, didn't Davis miss an absolute sitter on the black to take the match?
    It was a thin cut back into a blind pocket.

    You wouldn’t have expected Davis in his pomp to miss it, but it wasn’t a sitter.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,042

    Ms. Livermore, an electrum medal?

    I was thinking that they should get half of each medal welded together, but electrum could work
    No more nails would do the job
  • TimTTimT Posts: 5,188
    edited August 2021

    DougSeal said:

    WTF does the below sentence even mean? I’m saving this for the next time TSE extols the superiority of a Cambridge education-

    A consultative referendum will be argued it is lawful for Betfair’s rules.”

    May my humble Oxford educated self suggest it should perhaps read -

    It will doubtless be argued that a consultative referendum is lawful for the purposes of Betfair’s rules.”

    ?

    There should be a comma after 'lawful' in your sentence. And I'd be tempted to put the 'for the purposes of Betfair's rules' bit at the beginning. From an ever so 'umble graduate of one of London University's more average colleges.
    It will doubtless be argued that a consultative referendum is, for the purposes of Betfair's rules, lawful. From someone without the benefit of an Oxbridge or London Uni education.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,341
    There will certainly not be a legal indyref2 sanctioned by the UK government as long as the Tories remain in power, Boris has said another indyref should not be allowed for 40 years.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wait-40-years-for-another-scottish-independence-vote-says-boris-johnson-kwb7njq99

    Sturgeon has also ruled out a wildcat referendum and declaring UDI, hence some hardline Nats have defected from the SNP to Alba.

    So unless and until we get a PM Starmer getting confidence and supply from the SNP in a hung parliament after the next general election, indyref2 is off the agenda
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,687

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    YoungTurk said:

    On-topic, because it's about the idea of experimentation, lol:

    FPT

    "I'm not taking part in this vaccine experiment"

    You are. You're the control group.
    Currently around 10% in the UK
    ....and 80% in ICU


    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1421527009549856772?s=20

    This is getting crazy. Some anti-vaxers say the state wants to get rid of them so that there is no unvaxed control group to compare the vaxed with, and now anti-anti-vaxers are telling anti-vaxers that they've got news for them and in fact they ARE the control group. Few on either side understand where the other side is coming from.
    Also, if the state was going to exterminate one group, it wouldn’t be the compliant group who did what they were told.
    It makes you wonder why the Democrat administration of America is so anxious to get all those Trump republicans vaxxed.

    To stop them getting ill and dying?
    LOL
    Some people care about their fellow human beings. You’re not one of them.
    The notion that Democrats 'care' about the health of Trumpist Republicans is one of the more interesting delusions I have read on here.
    Hardly delusional. My wife is a registered Democrat and I confirm she cares more about her fellow human beings, including Republicans many of whom are in her family, than you probably care about any other person.
    We need hardly look further than the appalling case of the Lambeth care homes to find out how much the left 'care' about their fellow human beings.
    Wow. In the league table of non-sequiturs, that's pretty high up there.
    It is. Although yesterday from a different source we saw one setting the bar high - the Aztecs were an absolutely ghastly bunch so why on earth is anybody bothered about gender pronouns.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,165
    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hell of a race. I texted a friend as they were going round after the red flag saying "would be funny if everyone pitted and left one driver on his own for the grid restart"...and that actually happened!! Indianapolis 2005 levels of bizarre.

    Well, they had to think of some way to let Schumacher have a win.
    I seem to remember there was a similar-ish situation in a Moto GP race relatively recently in changeable conditions where a bunch of riders changed bikes on the formation lap, but this was deemed unfair to the one who didn't (Jack Miller?) so they basically made up a hasty rule that said Miller could start from the front on his own and the rest all hard to start from several rows back. Or something. It was almost as funny as today's restart.
    It was much worse than that. Miller was the only one to opt for slicks. At the end of the formation lap, the rest of the field entered the pit lane. Instead of starting the race and making everyone else wait for tyres to be changed (a lot longer than f1), the race start was abandoned. The race started with Miller given a four row head start (basically nothing).

    It is one of the most disgraceful episodes in motorsport history.
    Yes I remember Miller did get totally screwed over by it all, but you are right it was worse than I (mis-)remembered it.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,849
    HYUFD said:

    There will certainly not be a legal indyref2 sanctioned by the UK government as long as the Tories remain in power, Boris has said another indyref should not be allowed for 40 years.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wait-40-years-for-another-scottish-independence-vote-says-boris-johnson-kwb7njq99

    Sturgeon has also ruled out a wildcat referendum and declaring UDI, hence some hardline Nats have defected from the SNP to Alba.

    So unless and until we get a PM Starmer getting confidence and supply from the SNP in a hung parliament after the next general election, indyref2 is off the agenda

    How much money have you wagered on that position?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,866
    I think we'll call it the Bournemouth variant.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,849
    Scottish independence vote will happen if public wants it, says Michael Gove

    …Westminster has repeatedly rejected requests from the Scottish government for the necessary powers to hold another vote but the Cabinet Office minister said if the public desire a second referendum, “one would occur”.

    … Gove told the Sunday Mail: “The principle that the people of Scotland, in the right circumstances, can ask that question again is there. I just don’t think that it is right, and the public don’t think it is right, to ask that question at the moment. If it is the case that there is clearly a settled will in favour of a referendum, then one will occur.”

    It is unclear what would convince the UK government that another vote is the “settled will” of Scots but it could mean positive election results for independence parties or continuous polling in favour for a certain period of time.

    … Gove also rejected the chance of a third tilt at the leadership of the Conservatives, after failing in 2016 and 2019. “Historically, people who have run to be prime minister in the Tory party and don’t make it don’t subsequently make it,” he said. “I’ve had two goes and got bronze both times. I don’t think I’ll get the gold medal and I have to recognise that. I think Boris will be prime minister for a good while yet and there is a crop of younger people coming up who would be much better equipped than me.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/01/scottish-independence-vote-will-happen-if-public-wants-it-says-michael-gove
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,341
    edited August 2021

    HYUFD said:

    There will certainly not be a legal indyref2 sanctioned by the UK government as long as the Tories remain in power, Boris has said another indyref should not be allowed for 40 years.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wait-40-years-for-another-scottish-independence-vote-says-boris-johnson-kwb7njq99

    Sturgeon has also ruled out a wildcat referendum and declaring UDI, hence some hardline Nats have defected from the SNP to Alba.

    So unless and until we get a PM Starmer getting confidence and supply from the SNP in a hung parliament after the next general election, indyref2 is off the agenda

    How much money have you wagered on that position?
    Nothing, I rarely bet.

    However Boris has no desire to go down in history for all eternity as the 21st century Lord North who lost Scotland rather than the architect of Brexit he currently is.

    Sturgeon knows with Scottish polls 50/50 on independence it is too risky to call for a referendum now and that a wildcat referendum and UDI would not be recognised internationally, see also Catalonia. She is happy sticking to her day job as FM with luxury lodgings at Bute House and with Alba having failed to elect a single MSP she is under no pressure from Salmond and Nat hardliners anyway.

    So we are where we are and unless Starmer becomes PM after the next UK general election with maybe an indyref2 +devomax offer for the SNP nothing will change
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,920

    Scottish independence vote will happen if public wants it, says Michael Gove

    …Westminster has repeatedly rejected requests from the Scottish government for the necessary powers to hold another vote but the Cabinet Office minister said if the public desire a second referendum, “one would occur”.

    … Gove told the Sunday Mail: “The principle that the people of Scotland, in the right circumstances, can ask that question again is there. I just don’t think that it is right, and the public don’t think it is right, to ask that question at the moment. If it is the case that there is clearly a settled will in favour of a referendum, then one will occur.”

    It is unclear what would convince the UK government that another vote is the “settled will” of Scots but it could mean positive election results for independence parties or continuous polling in favour for a certain period of time.

    … Gove also rejected the chance of a third tilt at the leadership of the Conservatives, after failing in 2016 and 2019. “Historically, people who have run to be prime minister in the Tory party and don’t make it don’t subsequently make it,” he said. “I’ve had two goes and got bronze both times. I don’t think I’ll get the gold medal and I have to recognise that. I think Boris will be prime minister for a good while yet and there is a crop of younger people coming up who would be much better equipped than me.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/01/scottish-independence-vote-will-happen-if-public-wants-it-says-michael-gove

    Given the majorities in Westminster and Holyrood, and explicit mandate, one wonders what would convince Mr Gove.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,920
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    There will certainly not be a legal indyref2 sanctioned by the UK government as long as the Tories remain in power, Boris has said another indyref should not be allowed for 40 years.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wait-40-years-for-another-scottish-independence-vote-says-boris-johnson-kwb7njq99

    Sturgeon has also ruled out a wildcat referendum and declaring UDI, hence some hardline Nats have defected from the SNP to Alba.

    So unless and until we get a PM Starmer getting confidence and supply from the SNP in a hung parliament after the next general election, indyref2 is off the agenda

    How much money have you wagered on that position?
    Nothing, I rarely bet.

    However Boris has no desire to go down in history for all eternity as the 21st century Lord North who lost Scotland rather than the architect of Brexit he currently is.

    Sturgeon knows with Scottish polls 50/50 on independence it is too risky to call for a referendum now and that a wildcat referendum and UDI would not be recognised internationally, see also Catalonia. She is happy sticking to her day job with luxury lodgings at Bute House and with Alba having failed to elect a single MSP she is under no pressure from Salmond and Nat hardliners anyway.

    So we are where we are and unless Starmer becomes PM after the next UK general election nothing will change
    I must say my faith in your expertise and predictive accuracy has taken a sharp fall after your assertions this morning about the radiant future awaiting the Brussels sprouts exporters of Brexitania.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,441
    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    YoungTurk said:

    On-topic, because it's about the idea of experimentation, lol:

    FPT

    "I'm not taking part in this vaccine experiment"

    You are. You're the control group.
    Currently around 10% in the UK
    ....and 80% in ICU


    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1421527009549856772?s=20

    This is getting crazy. Some anti-vaxers say the state wants to get rid of them so that there is no unvaxed control group to compare the vaxed with, and now anti-anti-vaxers are telling anti-vaxers that they've got news for them and in fact they ARE the control group. Few on either side understand where the other side is coming from.
    Also, if the state was going to exterminate one group, it wouldn’t be the compliant group who did what they were told.
    It makes you wonder why the Democrat administration of America is so anxious to get all those Trump republicans vaxxed.

    To stop them getting ill and dying?
    LOL
    Some people care about their fellow human beings. You’re not one of them.
    The notion that Democrats 'care' about the health of Trumpist Republicans is one of the more interesting delusions I have read on here.
    Hardly delusional. My wife is a registered Democrat and I confirm she cares more about her fellow human beings, including Republicans many of whom are in her family, than you probably care about any other person.
    We need hardly look further than the appalling case of the Lambeth care homes to find out how much the left 'care' about their fellow human beings.
    Wow. In the league table of non-sequiturs, that's pretty high up there.
    It is. Although yesterday from a different source we saw one setting the bar high - the Aztecs were an absolutely ghastly bunch so why on earth is anybody bothered about gender pronouns.
    Though it did remind me of the occasion that that nice Mr Blair praised a nicely decorated bowl as evidence of the high culture and civilisation of the Aztecs. The said bowl being the one used to hold the hearts ripped out of human sacrifices.....

    Which puts the whole worship of "other cultures" as wonderful into a certain perspective.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,042
    Carnyx said:

    Scottish independence vote will happen if public wants it, says Michael Gove

    …Westminster has repeatedly rejected requests from the Scottish government for the necessary powers to hold another vote but the Cabinet Office minister said if the public desire a second referendum, “one would occur”.

    … Gove told the Sunday Mail: “The principle that the people of Scotland, in the right circumstances, can ask that question again is there. I just don’t think that it is right, and the public don’t think it is right, to ask that question at the moment. If it is the case that there is clearly a settled will in favour of a referendum, then one will occur.”

    It is unclear what would convince the UK government that another vote is the “settled will” of Scots but it could mean positive election results for independence parties or continuous polling in favour for a certain period of time.

    … Gove also rejected the chance of a third tilt at the leadership of the Conservatives, after failing in 2016 and 2019. “Historically, people who have run to be prime minister in the Tory party and don’t make it don’t subsequently make it,” he said. “I’ve had two goes and got bronze both times. I don’t think I’ll get the gold medal and I have to recognise that. I think Boris will be prime minister for a good while yet and there is a crop of younger people coming up who would be much better equipped than me.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/01/scottish-independence-vote-will-happen-if-public-wants-it-says-michael-gove

    Given the majorities in Westminster and Holyrood, and explicit mandate, one wonders what would convince Mr Gove.
    Or Ms Sturgeon for that matter , how many mandates does she need , she has to run out of feeble excuses at some stage.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    If there is no further vote on Independence whilst there is Tory Govt and wee Jimmy Krankie throws her toys of of her pram in Holyrood.. who cares? Few I would venture to suggest, bar diehard Nits.
    There is still the prospect of the law courts causing problems in Scotland.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,042

    If there is no further vote on Independence whilst there is Tory Govt and wee Jimmy Krankie throws her toys of of her pram in Holyrood.. who cares? Few I would venture to suggest, bar diehard Nits.
    There is still the prospect of the law courts causing problems in Scotland.

    Sturgeon does not want a referendum, that is painfully obvious to a blind man.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,687

    Scottish independence vote will happen if public wants it, says Michael Gove

    …Westminster has repeatedly rejected requests from the Scottish government for the necessary powers to hold another vote but the Cabinet Office minister said if the public desire a second referendum, “one would occur”.

    … Gove told the Sunday Mail: “The principle that the people of Scotland, in the right circumstances, can ask that question again is there. I just don’t think that it is right, and the public don’t think it is right, to ask that question at the moment. If it is the case that there is clearly a settled will in favour of a referendum, then one will occur.”

    It is unclear what would convince the UK government that another vote is the “settled will” of Scots but it could mean positive election results for independence parties or continuous polling in favour for a certain period of time.

    … Gove also rejected the chance of a third tilt at the leadership of the Conservatives, after failing in 2016 and 2019. “Historically, people who have run to be prime minister in the Tory party and don’t make it don’t subsequently make it,” he said. “I’ve had two goes and got bronze both times. I don’t think I’ll get the gold medal and I have to recognise that. I think Boris will be prime minister for a good while yet and there is a crop of younger people coming up who would be much better equipped than me.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/01/scottish-independence-vote-will-happen-if-public-wants-it-says-michael-gove

    Michael Gove. So humble. He's nowhere and yet everywhere. The Keyser Soze of Tory politics.
  • kinabalu said:

    Scottish independence vote will happen if public wants it, says Michael Gove

    …Westminster has repeatedly rejected requests from the Scottish government for the necessary powers to hold another vote but the Cabinet Office minister said if the public desire a second referendum, “one would occur”.

    … Gove told the Sunday Mail: “The principle that the people of Scotland, in the right circumstances, can ask that question again is there. I just don’t think that it is right, and the public don’t think it is right, to ask that question at the moment. If it is the case that there is clearly a settled will in favour of a referendum, then one will occur.”

    It is unclear what would convince the UK government that another vote is the “settled will” of Scots but it could mean positive election results for independence parties or continuous polling in favour for a certain period of time.

    … Gove also rejected the chance of a third tilt at the leadership of the Conservatives, after failing in 2016 and 2019. “Historically, people who have run to be prime minister in the Tory party and don’t make it don’t subsequently make it,” he said. “I’ve had two goes and got bronze both times. I don’t think I’ll get the gold medal and I have to recognise that. I think Boris will be prime minister for a good while yet and there is a crop of younger people coming up who would be much better equipped than me.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/01/scottish-independence-vote-will-happen-if-public-wants-it-says-michael-gove

    Michael Gove. So humble. He's nowhere and yet everywhere. The Keyser Soze of Tory politics.
    When I'm voting Blue
    All I have to do
    Is mark my 'X' by you
    And then I'm not so blue

    When you're close to me
    I can feel your conceit
    I can hear you briefing
    'gainst Sir Keir

    Wouldn't you agree
    Baby, you and me
    Got a groovy kind of Gove
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 45,001

    … Gove also rejected the chance of a third tilt at the leadership of the Conservatives, after failing in 2016 and 2019. “Historically, people who have run to be prime minister in the Tory party and don’t make it don’t subsequently make it,” he said. “I’ve had two goes and got bronze both times. I don’t think I’ll get the gold medal and I have to recognise that. I think Boris will be prime minister for a good while yet and there is a crop of younger people coming up who would be much better equipped than me.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/01/scottish-independence-vote-will-happen-if-public-wants-it-says-michael-gove

    I was pondering this. Does anyone have a more recent example of a former also ran who made it to the Tory than Austen Chamberlain (forced to withdraw in 1911, became leader in 1921)?

    Because I can’t think of one.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    malcolmg said:

    If there is no further vote on Independence whilst there is Tory Govt and wee Jimmy Krankie throws her toys of of her pram in Holyrood.. who cares? Few I would venture to suggest, bar diehard Nits.
    There is still the prospect of the law courts causing problems in Scotland.

    Sturgeon does not want a referendum, that is painfully obvious to a blind man.
    I think that's right but she will keep talking about one to feed her faithful with the necessary angst.

    I hope she is ejected and someone more trustworthy appointed. Who that might be is not clear.
This discussion has been closed.