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Opinium has the Midlands and the North recording the biggest falls in Boris’s approval ratings – pol

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  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654

    And approval ratings are now irrelevant, because Starmer is now leading Johnson?

    A few weeks ago, Starmer's ratings were a resigning matter for many on here, a guaranteed loser many said. Now he's recovering and BoJo is falling, I am sure consistency will be retained, as it always is!

    Just the consistency of the badmouthing of Boris..
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,665
    darkage said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's sad he's been censored because he's right. People are cowering from the virus now that they've been double jabbed. It's the fault of the government and specifically Matt Hancock who has made us into a nation if craven wretches waiting for the state to tell us what we can and can't do.

    I fear that my mum will never really mentally recover from being scared of the virus. For 18 months the government has fed her a diet of fear and uncertainty and now she doesn't really ever want to go out, my sister wants to plan a family holiday to Greece but my mum is flatly refusing because she might catch the virus on the plane or in Greece or in the airport. She's double jabbed with Pfizer and has no other health conditions. No amount of reasoning is working to get her to understand that she's now in no real danger.

    It made me so very happy when Hancock was forced out and replaced by Javid who doesn't talk about "our" NHS or wear that idiotic NHS pin on his lapel. I hold Hancock responsible for my mum's fearful mental state and the mental state of millions of other people across the nation who are now living in a permanent state of worry that they might die from something that won't kill them now that they're vaccinated.
    Agree with this. But note that it is not just fear of death which concerns some. Fear of lung damage is real. I was told by my consultant that I must avoid further damage to my lungs - and I try as far as possible. It was one reason why I was so anxious to get vaccinated and why I have been quite good about following the rules. And why my family boss me about if they think I'm being stupid. I would really rather not catch this - despite now being vaccinated because I simply can't afford more damage.

    That said I am in a minority and I am determined anyway to live life as fully as I can. But we should be aware that fear or concern may be quite rational for some and we should not abuse them for that. (Not that you are - but you understand what I'm getting at, I hope.)
    And for people who have underlying conditions I completely understand being a bit careful. What we've got is a large proportion of the nation who are perfectly healthy that are now fearful of normal life. The state has used the tool of fear to keep people indoors and now is belatedly realising it can't simply flip a switch and turn the clock back. @stodge has been saying this for a year or so already and he's right.

    The question is how do you run a country when 10-15% of it doesn't want to take part in normal life when none of them have anything to fear from it. You just have to hope that FOMO will drive people to get back to normal. My aunt (mum's sister) is going to Portugal next month so hopefully that will help her realise there's nothing to fear from travel but who knows.
    Covid sent government 'nudging' in to overdrive. People were nudged in to being terrified of the virus (Stay home, save lives, don't kill granny etc), now a small proportion of people are afraid to go out at all and want permanent restrictions, which now actually seems to be costing the government its popularity and eroding its poll leads as it tries to open up the economy. The problem is the policy of using behavioural science on the part of the state to manipulate peoples behaviour, from the outset a shady business - it was always likely to have perverse consequences.
    A certain amount of government messaging was needed, though, when the virus was kicking off. It was a public health emergency remember.

    Perhaps more Sergeant Wilson and less Captain Mainwaring would have been better and left less mental scaring on the public.

    "If all you chaps, and ladies too, could possibly think about staying at home for a while, if you possibly can, so that you don't get poorly with this rather horrid new bug and need to go to hospital, it would be awfully appreciated."
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,044
    DougSeal said:

    Scottish Independence:

    I guess some of our Scottish friends on here will bemoan me talking about this, as I generally disagree with them on independence probably don't know enough about Scotland, but I really think they missed a trick in 2014.

    If independence is won, it would be a seismic event for Scotland - good or bad - and the quest for it needs to be commemorated. A year or more before a referendum, I would hold meetings all over the country - from
    Islesburgh Community Centre to Coldingham village hall, and everywhere in between. Invite people who want independence to sign their names on sheets of paper, which will then be bound into books for posterity. Millions of names, every one (Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse excepted) vowing their support for an independent country.

    Names and a book that will last hundreds of years, and show the basis for their new-won independence.

    Yes, it can be done on the Internet, but that's [email protected] It means nothing. This will be ink on paper, for posterity. A real, solid meaning.

    When will the “Scotch expert” comment appear?
    Your post, it would appear.
  • glwglw Posts: 7,962
    DougSeal said:

    Peston’s a funny one this pandemic. I can’t say I blame him though given what happened to his wife - the immune suppressing drugs she would have been on would make anyone wary of such a nasty virus.

    He's a bit thick. It would have taken him only a couple of minutes to Google some stats about reinfeciton rates. It's pathetic that a journalist can't stop himself from publishing something that will cause unnecessary worry and claims of conspiracy before he can do a quick sanity check.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,587
    edited July 2021
    glw said:

    DougSeal said:

    Peston’s a funny one this pandemic. I can’t say I blame him though given what happened to his wife - the immune suppressing drugs she would have been on would make anyone wary of such a nasty virus.

    He's a bit thick. It would have taken him only a couple of minutes to Google some stats about reinfeciton rates. It's pathetic that a journalist can't stop himself from publishing something that will cause unnecessary worry and claims of conspiracy before he can do a quick sanity check.
    Once you can forgive, but he pretty does one of these every other week. If most people in regular jobs were that incomponent they would be looking for new employment, unless you are a politician, journalist or run the MET.....
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954

    DougSeal said:

    Scottish Independence:

    I guess some of our Scottish friends on here will bemoan me talking about this, as I generally disagree with them on independence probably don't know enough about Scotland, but I really think they missed a trick in 2014.

    If independence is won, it would be a seismic event for Scotland - good or bad - and the quest for it needs to be commemorated. A year or more before a referendum, I would hold meetings all over the country - from
    Islesburgh Community Centre to Coldingham village hall, and everywhere in between. Invite people who want independence to sign their names on sheets of paper, which will then be bound into books for posterity. Millions of names, every one (Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse excepted) vowing their support for an independent country.

    Names and a book that will last hundreds of years, and show the basis for their new-won independence.

    Yes, it can be done on the Internet, but that's [email protected] It means nothing. This will be ink on paper, for posterity. A real, solid meaning.

    When will the “Scotch expert” comment appear?
    Your post, it would appear.
    I knew you’d take the bait sooner rather than later.
  • eekeek Posts: 17,732
    glw said:

    DougSeal said:

    Peston’s a funny one this pandemic. I can’t say I blame him though given what happened to his wife - the immune suppressing drugs she would have been on would make anyone wary of such a nasty virus.

    He's a bit thick. It would have taken him only a couple of minutes to Google some stats about reinfeciton rates. It's pathetic that a journalist can't stop himself from publishing something that will cause unnecessary worry and claims of conspiracy before he can do a quick sanity check.
    As a journalist he wants to make news stories, which you can't do if the facts you discovery remove the story.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954

    And approval ratings are now irrelevant, because Starmer is now leading Johnson?

    A few weeks ago, Starmer's ratings were a resigning matter for many on here, a guaranteed loser many said. Now he's recovering and BoJo is falling, I am sure consistency will be retained, as it always is!

    Just the consistency of the badmouthing of Boris..
    Mr Johnson (not “Boris”) is the Prime Minister. Don’t rattle your pearls as if we’re bullying some defenceless poor schoolboy swot. I know that’s part of his schtick but some of us can see through it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,044
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scottish Independence:

    I guess some of our Scottish friends on here will bemoan me talking about this, as I generally disagree with them on independence probably don't know enough about Scotland, but I really think they missed a trick in 2014.

    If independence is won, it would be a seismic event for Scotland - good or bad - and the quest for it needs to be commemorated. A year or more before a referendum, I would hold meetings all over the country - from
    Islesburgh Community Centre to Coldingham village hall, and everywhere in between. Invite people who want independence to sign their names on sheets of paper, which will then be bound into books for posterity. Millions of names, every one (Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse excepted) vowing their support for an independent country.

    Names and a book that will last hundreds of years, and show the basis for their new-won independence.

    Yes, it can be done on the Internet, but that's [email protected] It means nothing. This will be ink on paper, for posterity. A real, solid meaning.

    When will the “Scotch expert” comment appear?
    Your post, it would appear.
    I knew you’d take the bait sooner rather than later.
    Zinger!
    You should really start charging me rent.
    Not saying I'd pay it mind..
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,025

    Rachel Reeves knows how to revive the Bulwark of the Union, the Scottish Labour Party.

    Her recipe for success is… wait for it… drum roll… Blairism!

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/politics/7451821/labour-scots-support-blairs-election-strategy/amp/

    Yes Jim, we feel the love.

    image

    image

    Murphy was leader of Scottish Labour in 2014-15. The complete collapse of SLAB was after The Vow, not because of Blair.

    Reeves has a point - any party that is negative and apologetic is in for a kicking. I'm not saying such a strategy will revive them, but you can't say that a similar strategy caused their cataclysm.
    It is not universally accepted by psephologists that “The Vow” was the key problem.

    ‘The Vow was "not a decisive factor" in Scotland voting no to independence‘

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/scotland-blog/2015/mar/26/the-vow-was-not-a-decisive-factor-in-scots-voting-no-to-indepedence

    The key reason for the collapse of Scottish Labour and the Scottish Liberal Democrats was their collaboration with the Conservative Party.

    They had, of course, been collaborating with the Tories behind the scenes for decades, but it was a strategic mistake to make the alliance public.
    Unfortunately they all moved to the SNP and are doing a great job of wrecking it and making it into a devolution at best party.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scottish Independence:

    I guess some of our Scottish friends on here will bemoan me talking about this, as I generally disagree with them on independence probably don't know enough about Scotland, but I really think they missed a trick in 2014.

    If independence is won, it would be a seismic event for Scotland - good or bad - and the quest for it needs to be commemorated. A year or more before a referendum, I would hold meetings all over the country - from
    Islesburgh Community Centre to Coldingham village hall, and everywhere in between. Invite people who want independence to sign their names on sheets of paper, which will then be bound into books for posterity. Millions of names, every one (Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse excepted) vowing their support for an independent country.

    Names and a book that will last hundreds of years, and show the basis for their new-won independence.

    Yes, it can be done on the Internet, but that's [email protected] It means nothing. This will be ink on paper, for posterity. A real, solid meaning.

    When will the “Scotch expert” comment appear?
    Your post, it would appear.
    I knew you’d take the bait sooner rather than later.
    Zinger!
    You should really start charging me rent.
    Not saying I'd pay it mind..
    There’s no room for you up there. The space is taken up with all of your “Heroes of Comedy” DVD specials.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,025

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scottish Independence:

    I guess some of our Scottish friends on here will bemoan me talking about this, as I generally disagree with them on independence probably don't know enough about Scotland, but I really think they missed a trick in 2014.

    If independence is won, it would be a seismic event for Scotland - good or bad - and the quest for it needs to be commemorated. A year or more before a referendum, I would hold meetings all over the country - from
    Islesburgh Community Centre to Coldingham village hall, and everywhere in between. Invite people who want independence to sign their names on sheets of paper, which will then be bound into books for posterity. Millions of names, every one (Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse excepted) vowing their support for an independent country.

    Names and a book that will last hundreds of years, and show the basis for their new-won independence.

    Yes, it can be done on the Internet, but that's [email protected] It means nothing. This will be ink on paper, for posterity. A real, solid meaning.

    When will the “Scotch expert” comment appear?
    Your post, it would appear.
    I knew you’d take the bait sooner rather than later.
    Zinger!
    You should really start charging me rent.
    Not saying I'd pay it mind..
    Not too bright these boys are they, their bitterness trips them up every time.
  • glwglw Posts: 7,962
    eek said:

    glw said:

    DougSeal said:

    Peston’s a funny one this pandemic. I can’t say I blame him though given what happened to his wife - the immune suppressing drugs she would have been on would make anyone wary of such a nasty virus.

    He's a bit thick. It would have taken him only a couple of minutes to Google some stats about reinfeciton rates. It's pathetic that a journalist can't stop himself from publishing something that will cause unnecessary worry and claims of conspiracy before he can do a quick sanity check.
    As a journalist he wants to make news stories, which you can't do if the facts you discovery remove the story.
    He's pretty damn close to inventing news at this point so error filled are some of his stories. It doesn't say much for his editors at ITV either, they should have had a word or two by now.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 4,698
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's sad he's been censored because he's right. People are cowering from the virus now that they've been double jabbed. It's the fault of the government and specifically Matt Hancock who has made us into a nation if craven wretches waiting for the state to tell us what we can and can't do.

    I fear that my mum will never really mentally recover from being scared of the virus. For 18 months the government has fed her a diet of fear and uncertainty and now she doesn't really ever want to go out, my sister wants to plan a family holiday to Greece but my mum is flatly refusing because she might catch the virus on the plane or in Greece or in the airport. She's double jabbed with Pfizer and has no other health conditions. No amount of reasoning is working to get her to understand that she's now in no real danger.

    It made me so very happy when Hancock was forced out and replaced by Javid who doesn't talk about "our" NHS or wear that idiotic NHS pin on his lapel. I hold Hancock responsible for my mum's fearful mental state and the mental state of millions of other people across the nation who are going some now living in a permanent state of worry that they might die from something that won't kill them now that they're vaccinated.
    Javid was both right and wrong. Right in the sense that we are going to have to live with this virus and that means accepting some risk. Not living fearfully.

    But wrong because some will have good reason to be more fearful than others and this is not some sort of failing on their part. Nor was it by those who died.

    So he should have thought more carefully about the words he used - or got someone else to read it first who might have spotted how it would be read by some. But good that he has apologised.
    Yes, I agree with this balanced view. As we emerge from the worst of the pandemic, it's important that we respect each other's judgments about what is and isn't safe for us - using language that seems to deride people who make different decisions just creates articial divisions.

    But we all express things badly sometimes - I wouldn't hold that against him.
    He’s actually gone up in my estimation. How many acts of contrition do we normally see from this Cabinet?
    Yes, regardless of whether Sajid was right to apologise for the use of 'cower' (I think he was), according to my comprehensive records this is the first time that anybody in the current Cabinet has apologised for anything (not including Hancock, ex-cabinet).

    It sets a dangerous precedent if it becomes contagious. If this level of apology is reached for the mere misuse of a word, what sort of apology can we expect from Jenrick, Patel, Williamson, Johnson and others over their well-documented and somewhat graver misdemeanours? Resignations?
    More likely that Javid will have to resign for bringing the Clown Posse into disrepute.
    Though having walked, then been brought back, Saj is less sackable than most.

    And if the Conservative Party were to decide it wanted someone different- but not that different- then Javid suddenly fits the bill better than, say, Sunak.

    Have we heard a peep from Rishi since he made exactly the same mistake as BoJo last Sunday?
    An apology makes him stand out from Johnson and Sunak. Uses an insensitive word - apologises. Considered using an isolation escape route until it proved to be a PR catastrophe and then lied about it - no apology.
    And come to think of it, he can say he said no to Dom before it was fashionable.

    Clever.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 30,236
    I'm just rereading Flashman's Lady, which contains this wonderful, and rather relevant line:-

    'But damn it, this fellow is a public school man! Isn't he??'

    'He attended Eton College' says Whampoa gravely, 'but that is not, in itself, necessarily inconsistent with a later life of crime.'
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,477
    eek said:

    glw said:

    DougSeal said:

    Peston’s a funny one this pandemic. I can’t say I blame him though given what happened to his wife - the immune suppressing drugs she would have been on would make anyone wary of such a nasty virus.

    He's a bit thick. It would have taken him only a couple of minutes to Google some stats about reinfeciton rates. It's pathetic that a journalist can't stop himself from publishing something that will cause unnecessary worry and claims of conspiracy before he can do a quick sanity check.
    As a journalist he wants to make news stories, which you can't do if the facts you discovery remove the story.
    I'd genuinely love for the top scientists to call the media out for this stuff. Name names and tell them to actually fact check before mindlessly reporting things as "fact". The crisis has really shown how useless the media is. These people would be willing on the German bombs in London just to get a story and more retweets.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 41,077
    Nigelb said:

    The numbers for countries with the lowest percentage vaccinated put our own predicament into some context.
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1418652824192290817

    Absolutely. We should be gearing up to help vaccinate the rest of the world at the moment. Its absolutely in our interests to do so.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 46,533
    O'Flynn thinks the PM might pull this off.


    "The greased piglet would be running free once again."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/25/falling-case-numbers-may-yet-save-pms-bacon/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,665

    MaxPB said:

    It's sad he's been censored because he's right. People are cowering from the virus now that they've been double jabbed. It's the fault of the government and specifically Matt Hancock who has made us into a nation if craven wretches waiting for the state to tell us what we can and can't do.

    I fear that my mum will never really mentally recover from being scared of the virus. For 18 months the government has fed her a diet of fear and uncertainty and now she doesn't really ever want to go out, my sister wants to plan a family holiday to Greece but my mum is flatly refusing because she might catch the virus on the plane or in Greece or in the airport. She's double jabbed with Pfizer and has no other health conditions. No amount of reasoning is working to get her to understand that she's now in no real danger.

    It made me so very happy when Hancock was forced out and replaced by Javid who doesn't talk about "our" NHS or wear that idiotic NHS pin on his lapel. I hold Hancock responsible for my mum's fearful mental state and the mental state of millions of other people across the nation who are now living in a permanent state of worry that they might die from something that won't kill them now that they're vaccinated.
    I broadly agree with this and I feel it myself personally. For me I think the messaging on masks is important. As long as the government (in Westminster or Holyrood) is telling me that it's not safe to go out without wearing a mask the message I am hearing is that it's not safe to go out.

    I know life isn't that simple, but public relations are. If the vaccines have ended the emergency then the public advice needs to reflect that, otherwise they don't have a chance of coaxing the anxious back out again.
    It'll take a bit of time is all. This has been a massive and traumatic event lasting almost 18 months. It has dominated the news and people's lives. Millions have been directly affected by serious illness and loss. It's no surprise that everyone doesn't snap back to normal as soon as legal restrictions are gone. Some are more cautious than others and there are countless different individual reasons why this might be so, some rational, some less so, but hey, people are like that. Barring accidents we're in the end phase of the Great Pandemic of 20/21 as regards the UK. It's the GLOBAL pandemic that has a long way still to run. Almost all of the grief that lies ahead will be for other less fortunate countries to cope with. I realize I'm more insulated from the sharp end than most but that's my take on things.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,284
    I see "cower" is now an unfortunate choice of word, for which it is only right and proper to apologise.
    Yesterday it was only a bunch of terrified lefties on the outrage bus.
    Today it is packed beyond all safe limits.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 41,077

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's sad he's been censored because he's right. People are cowering from the virus now that they've been double jabbed. It's the fault of the government and specifically Matt Hancock who has made us into a nation if craven wretches waiting for the state to tell us what we can and can't do.

    I fear that my mum will never really mentally recover from being scared of the virus. For 18 months the government has fed her a diet of fear and uncertainty and now she doesn't really ever want to go out, my sister wants to plan a family holiday to Greece but my mum is flatly refusing because she might catch the virus on the plane or in Greece or in the airport. She's double jabbed with Pfizer and has no other health conditions. No amount of reasoning is working to get her to understand that she's now in no real danger.

    It made me so very happy when Hancock was forced out and replaced by Javid who doesn't talk about "our" NHS or wear that idiotic NHS pin on his lapel. I hold Hancock responsible for my mum's fearful mental state and the mental state of millions of other people across the nation who are going some now living in a permanent state of worry that they might die from something that won't kill them now that they're vaccinated.
    Javid was both right and wrong. Right in the sense that we are going to have to live with this virus and that means accepting some risk. Not living fearfully.

    But wrong because some will have good reason to be more fearful than others and this is not some sort of failing on their part. Nor was it by those who died.

    So he should have thought more carefully about the words he used - or got someone else to read it first who might have spotted how it would be read by some. But good that he has apologised.
    Yes, I agree with this balanced view. As we emerge from the worst of the pandemic, it's important that we respect each other's judgments about what is and isn't safe for us - using language that seems to deride people who make different decisions just creates articial divisions.

    But we all express things badly sometimes - I wouldn't hold that against him.
    He’s actually gone up in my estimation. How many acts of contrition do we normally see from this Cabinet?
    Yes, regardless of whether Sajid was right to apologise for the use of 'cower' (I think he was), according to my comprehensive records this is the first time that anybody in the current Cabinet has apologised for anything (not including Hancock, ex-cabinet).

    It sets a dangerous precedent if it becomes contagious. If this level of apology is reached for the mere misuse of a word, what sort of apology can we expect from Jenrick, Patel, Williamson, Johnson and others over their well-documented and somewhat graver misdemeanours? Resignations?
    More likely that Javid will have to resign for bringing the Clown Posse into disrepute.
    Though having walked, then been brought back, Saj is less sackable than most.

    And if the Conservative Party were to decide it wanted someone different- but not that different- then Javid suddenly fits the bill better than, say, Sunak.

    Have we heard a peep from Rishi since he made exactly the same mistake as BoJo last Sunday?
    An apology makes him stand out from Johnson and Sunak. Uses an insensitive word - apologises. Considered using an isolation escape route until it proved to be a PR catastrophe and then lied about it - no apology.
    And come to think of it, he can say he said no to Dom before it was fashionable.

    Clever.
    It was his period as Chancellor that still makes me a little unsure. It was poor to awful and showed little appreciation of the responsibilities of the post. He was unlucky not to get a proper budget, that might have helped him put his mark down.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    edited July 2021
    DougSeal said:

    And approval ratings are now irrelevant, because Starmer is now leading Johnson?

    A few weeks ago, Starmer's ratings were a resigning matter for many on here, a guaranteed loser many said. Now he's recovering and BoJo is falling, I am sure consistency will be retained, as it always is!

    Just the consistency of the badmouthing of Boris..
    Mr Johnson (not “Boris”) is the Prime Minister. Don’t rattle your pearls as if we’re bullying some defenceless poor schoolboy swot. I know that’s part of his schtick but some of us can see through it.

    Does it make you feel good inside, slagging him off?
  • glwglw Posts: 7,962
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    glw said:

    DougSeal said:

    Peston’s a funny one this pandemic. I can’t say I blame him though given what happened to his wife - the immune suppressing drugs she would have been on would make anyone wary of such a nasty virus.

    He's a bit thick. It would have taken him only a couple of minutes to Google some stats about reinfeciton rates. It's pathetic that a journalist can't stop himself from publishing something that will cause unnecessary worry and claims of conspiracy before he can do a quick sanity check.
    As a journalist he wants to make news stories, which you can't do if the facts you discovery remove the story.
    I'd genuinely love for the top scientists to call the media out for this stuff. Name names and tell them to actually fact check before mindlessly reporting things as "fact". The crisis has really shown how useless the media is. These people would be willing on the German bombs in London just to get a story and more retweets.
    I now understand why we had wartime censorship.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954

    DougSeal said:

    And approval ratings are now irrelevant, because Starmer is now leading Johnson?

    A few weeks ago, Starmer's ratings were a resigning matter for many on here, a guaranteed loser many said. Now he's recovering and BoJo is falling, I am sure consistency will be retained, as it always is!

    Just the consistency of the badmouthing of Boris..
    Mr Johnson (not “Boris”) is the Prime Minister. Don’t rattle your pearls as if we’re bullying some defenceless poor schoolboy swot. I know that’s part of his schtick but some of us can see through it.

    Does it make you feel good inside, slagging him olff?
    What a pathetic comment.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 41,077

    O'Flynn thinks the PM might pull this off.


    "The greased piglet would be running free once again."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/25/falling-case-numbers-may-yet-save-pms-bacon/

    Some of us on here have been saying that for a while. The next month is still going to be tricky but then quite a lot of things may start to move the PM's way.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,477
    dixiedean said:

    I see "cower" is now an unfortunate choice of word, for which it is only right and proper to apologise.
    Yesterday it was only a bunch of terrified lefties on the outrage bus.
    Today it is packed beyond all safe limits.

    No, it was right yesterday and he's apologised for telling the truth. People are cowering, unnecessarily.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954
    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scottish Independence:

    I guess some of our Scottish friends on here will bemoan me talking about this, as I generally disagree with them on independence probably don't know enough about Scotland, but I really think they missed a trick in 2014.

    If independence is won, it would be a seismic event for Scotland - good or bad - and the quest for it needs to be commemorated. A year or more before a referendum, I would hold meetings all over the country - from
    Islesburgh Community Centre to Coldingham village hall, and everywhere in between. Invite people who want independence to sign their names on sheets of paper, which will then be bound into books for posterity. Millions of names, every one (Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse excepted) vowing their support for an independent country.

    Names and a book that will last hundreds of years, and show the basis for their new-won independence.

    Yes, it can be done on the Internet, but that's [email protected] It means nothing. This will be ink on paper, for posterity. A real, solid meaning.

    When will the “Scotch expert” comment appear?
    Your post, it would appear.
    I knew you’d take the bait sooner rather than later.
    Zinger!
    You should really start charging me rent.
    Not saying I'd pay it mind..
    Not too bright these boys are they, their bitterness trips them up every time.
    I’d be a bit careful there Malc given your diatribe at Max last night.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,477
    glw said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    glw said:

    DougSeal said:

    Peston’s a funny one this pandemic. I can’t say I blame him though given what happened to his wife - the immune suppressing drugs she would have been on would make anyone wary of such a nasty virus.

    He's a bit thick. It would have taken him only a couple of minutes to Google some stats about reinfeciton rates. It's pathetic that a journalist can't stop himself from publishing something that will cause unnecessary worry and claims of conspiracy before he can do a quick sanity check.
    As a journalist he wants to make news stories, which you can't do if the facts you discovery remove the story.
    I'd genuinely love for the top scientists to call the media out for this stuff. Name names and tell them to actually fact check before mindlessly reporting things as "fact". The crisis has really shown how useless the media is. These people would be willing on the German bombs in London just to get a story and more retweets.
    I now understand why we had wartime censorship.
    Indeed. Peston would be turning the lights on in Westminster just to get a story about German bombs landing in Westminster at this stage. The guy is such a prick. It's almost as if he's willing the virus on because the people who want to stop it (Brexit Boris) are bad so the virus must be good.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    And approval ratings are now irrelevant, because Starmer is now leading Johnson?

    A few weeks ago, Starmer's ratings were a resigning matter for many on here, a guaranteed loser many said. Now he's recovering and BoJo is falling, I am sure consistency will be retained, as it always is!

    Just the consistency of the badmouthing of Boris..
    Plus Keir is still trailing Boris.

    Boris has approval from 34% while Keir has approval from only 30%
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,587
    edited July 2021
    Lutalo Muhammad is very good on BBC explaining everything around kicky kicky in PJs.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Lutalo Muhammad is very good on BBC explaining everything around kicky kicky in PJs.

    "Kicky kicky in PJs"?

    Is that football's response to The Hundred?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,587

    Lutalo Muhammad is very good on BBC explaining everything around kicky kicky in PJs.

    "Kicky kicky in PJs"?

    Is that football's response to The Hundred?
    Only if Joey Barton was taking part
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,025
    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scottish Independence:

    I guess some of our Scottish friends on here will bemoan me talking about this, as I generally disagree with them on independence probably don't know enough about Scotland, but I really think they missed a trick in 2014.

    If independence is won, it would be a seismic event for Scotland - good or bad - and the quest for it needs to be commemorated. A year or more before a referendum, I would hold meetings all over the country - from
    Islesburgh Community Centre to Coldingham village hall, and everywhere in between. Invite people who want independence to sign their names on sheets of paper, which will then be bound into books for posterity. Millions of names, every one (Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse excepted) vowing their support for an independent country.

    Names and a book that will last hundreds of years, and show the basis for their new-won independence.

    Yes, it can be done on the Internet, but that's [email protected] It means nothing. This will be ink on paper, for posterity. A real, solid meaning.

    When will the “Scotch expert” comment appear?
    Your post, it would appear.
    I knew you’d take the bait sooner rather than later.
    Zinger!
    You should really start charging me rent.
    Not saying I'd pay it mind..
    Not too bright these boys are they, their bitterness trips them up every time.
    I’d be a bit careful there Malc given your diatribe at Max last night.
    It was no diatribe , basing your opinion and hating a whole nation due to one nasty bigot is pathetic. If I applied that to some of the clowns on here I would have went off the hatred richter scale long ago.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,025
    Good to see Police Scotland almost getting a backbone...........https://jaggy.blog/2021/07/25/prosecutors-v-police-scotland/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,312

    O'Flynn thinks the PM might pull this off.


    "The greased piglet would be running free once again."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/25/falling-case-numbers-may-yet-save-pms-bacon/

    Falling cases numbers in the UK plus rising cases numbers in Europe, USA, Australia and the rest of the world generally would be ideal politically for Boris.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954
    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scottish Independence:

    I guess some of our Scottish friends on here will bemoan me talking about this, as I generally disagree with them on independence probably don't know enough about Scotland, but I really think they missed a trick in 2014.

    If independence is won, it would be a seismic event for Scotland - good or bad - and the quest for it needs to be commemorated. A year or more before a referendum, I would hold meetings all over the country - from
    Islesburgh Community Centre to Coldingham village hall, and everywhere in between. Invite people who want independence to sign their names on sheets of paper, which will then be bound into books for posterity. Millions of names, every one (Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse excepted) vowing their support for an independent country.

    Names and a book that will last hundreds of years, and show the basis for their new-won independence.

    Yes, it can be done on the Internet, but that's [email protected] It means nothing. This will be ink on paper, for posterity. A real, solid meaning.

    When will the “Scotch expert” comment appear?
    Your post, it would appear.
    I knew you’d take the bait sooner rather than later.
    Zinger!
    You should really start charging me rent.
    Not saying I'd pay it mind..
    Not too bright these boys are they, their bitterness trips them up every time.
    I’d be a bit careful there Malc given your diatribe at Max last night.
    It was no diatribe , basing your opinion and hating a whole nation due to one nasty bigot is pathetic. If I applied that to some of the clowns on here I would have went off the hatred richter scale long ago.
    I’ll let the irony in which that comment is seeped speak for itself.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,587

    O'Flynn thinks the PM might pull this off.


    "The greased piglet would be running free once again."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/25/falling-case-numbers-may-yet-save-pms-bacon/

    Falling cases numbers in the UK plus rising cases numbers in Europe, USA, Australia and the rest of the world generally would be ideal politically for Boris.
    Strangely the media become uninterested in reporting such things when that occurs.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954

    O'Flynn thinks the PM might pull this off.


    "The greased piglet would be running free once again."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/25/falling-case-numbers-may-yet-save-pms-bacon/

    Falling cases numbers in the UK plus rising cases numbers in Europe, USA, Australia and the rest of the world generally would be ideal politically for Boris.
    Strangely the media become uninterested in reporting such things when that occurs.
    IF that occurs - it is right to say this could be a blip occurring as a result of the ending of a number of mini super spreader events after the Euros.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,800
    Russia's figures are amazingly consistent. Every day for the last couple of weeks has been around 24k cases and 800 deaths.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,800
    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    glw said:

    DougSeal said:

    Peston’s a funny one this pandemic. I can’t say I blame him though given what happened to his wife - the immune suppressing drugs she would have been on would make anyone wary of such a nasty virus.

    He's a bit thick. It would have taken him only a couple of minutes to Google some stats about reinfeciton rates. It's pathetic that a journalist can't stop himself from publishing something that will cause unnecessary worry and claims of conspiracy before he can do a quick sanity check.
    As a journalist he wants to make news stories, which you can't do if the facts you discovery remove the story.
    I'd genuinely love for the top scientists to call the media out for this stuff. Name names and tell them to actually fact check before mindlessly reporting things as "fact". The crisis has really shown how useless the media is. These people would be willing on the German bombs in London just to get a story and more retweets.
    I now understand why we had wartime censorship.
    Indeed. Peston would be turning the lights on in Westminster just to get a story about German bombs landing in Westminster at this stage. The guy is such a prick. It's almost as if he's willing the virus on because the people who want to stop it (Brexit Boris) are bad so the virus must be good.
    I see he still hasn't tweeted any correction/clarification despite having been told numerous times that he was misleading people.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,025
    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scottish Independence:

    I guess some of our Scottish friends on here will bemoan me talking about this, as I generally disagree with them on independence probably don't know enough about Scotland, but I really think they missed a trick in 2014.

    If independence is won, it would be a seismic event for Scotland - good or bad - and the quest for it needs to be commemorated. A year or more before a referendum, I would hold meetings all over the country - from
    Islesburgh Community Centre to Coldingham village hall, and everywhere in between. Invite people who want independence to sign their names on sheets of paper, which will then be bound into books for posterity. Millions of names, every one (Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse excepted) vowing their support for an independent country.

    Names and a book that will last hundreds of years, and show the basis for their new-won independence.

    Yes, it can be done on the Internet, but that's [email protected] It means nothing. This will be ink on paper, for posterity. A real, solid meaning.

    When will the “Scotch expert” comment appear?
    Your post, it would appear.
    I knew you’d take the bait sooner rather than later.
    Zinger!
    You should really start charging me rent.
    Not saying I'd pay it mind..
    Not too bright these boys are they, their bitterness trips them up every time.
    I’d be a bit careful there Malc given your diatribe at Max last night.
    It was no diatribe , basing your opinion and hating a whole nation due to one nasty bigot is pathetic. If I applied that to some of the clowns on here I would have went off the hatred richter scale long ago.
    I’ll let the irony in which that comment is seeped speak for itself.
    My violin is playing, you need to get over your bitterness and inferiority complex. It does you no good and colours your judgement.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,587

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    glw said:

    DougSeal said:

    Peston’s a funny one this pandemic. I can’t say I blame him though given what happened to his wife - the immune suppressing drugs she would have been on would make anyone wary of such a nasty virus.

    He's a bit thick. It would have taken him only a couple of minutes to Google some stats about reinfeciton rates. It's pathetic that a journalist can't stop himself from publishing something that will cause unnecessary worry and claims of conspiracy before he can do a quick sanity check.
    As a journalist he wants to make news stories, which you can't do if the facts you discovery remove the story.
    I'd genuinely love for the top scientists to call the media out for this stuff. Name names and tell them to actually fact check before mindlessly reporting things as "fact". The crisis has really shown how useless the media is. These people would be willing on the German bombs in London just to get a story and more retweets.
    I now understand why we had wartime censorship.
    Indeed. Peston would be turning the lights on in Westminster just to get a story about German bombs landing in Westminster at this stage. The guy is such a prick. It's almost as if he's willing the virus on because the people who want to stop it (Brexit Boris) are bad so the virus must be good.
    I see he still hasn't tweeted any correction/clarification despite having been told numerous times that he was misleading people.
    If the correction does come it will get 1000th of the retweets.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    And approval ratings are now irrelevant, because Starmer is now leading Johnson?

    A few weeks ago, Starmer's ratings were a resigning matter for many on here, a guaranteed loser many said. Now he's recovering and BoJo is falling, I am sure consistency will be retained, as it always is!

    Just the consistency of the badmouthing of Boris..
    Mr Johnson (not “Boris”) is the Prime Minister. Don’t rattle your pearls as if we’re bullying some defenceless poor schoolboy swot. I know that’s part of his schtick but some of us can see through it.

    Does it make you feel good inside, slagging him olff?
    What a pathetic comment.
    Perfectly reasonable question to ask. You read the comments. Lots of the Boris haters seem to get a form of perverse pleasure out of slagging off Boris.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,044
    I bet he had to beat them off, something with which he is no doubt well acquainted.


  • felixfelix Posts: 13,843

    O'Flynn thinks the PM might pull this off.


    "The greased piglet would be running free once again."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/25/falling-case-numbers-may-yet-save-pms-bacon/

    Falling cases numbers in the UK plus rising cases numbers in Europe, USA, Australia and the rest of the world generally would be ideal politically for Boris.
    Strangely the media become uninterested in reporting such things when that occurs.
    Rather like Tory poll leads in some other places...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,665

    O'Flynn thinks the PM might pull this off.


    "The greased piglet would be running free once again."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/25/falling-case-numbers-may-yet-save-pms-bacon/

    Falling cases numbers in the UK plus rising cases numbers in Europe, USA, Australia and the rest of the world generally would be ideal politically for Boris.
    You'd think so, wouldn't you? Yet his polling shows otherwise. It seems unfair. Still, his popularity in the past has held up when it had no right to do so - in any rational world - so perhaps this is the flip side of the coin.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 3,513

    O'Flynn thinks the PM might pull this off.


    "The greased piglet would be running free once again."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/25/falling-case-numbers-may-yet-save-pms-bacon/

    Falling cases numbers in the UK plus rising cases numbers in Europe, USA, Australia and the rest of the world generally would be ideal politically for Boris.
    Yes, it would be very bad news for the rest of the world, but who cares? As long as it benefits Boris politically. Even better if it hits the French and the Germans particularly badly.

    I'm sure you didn't mean it, but there's an unpleasant cynicism lurking beneath your comment. I'd like to think it's in all our interests if cases plummet everywhere.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 41,077
    malcolmg said:

    Good to see Police Scotland almost getting a backbone...........https://jaggy.blog/2021/07/25/prosecutors-v-police-scotland/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

    They can have an investigation, they can even make a report with a recommendation but they cannot bring a prosecution.

    What we have here is some blatant lying. People were told that these particular contributions would be put to one side for Indyref 2 and that was not true, they have been spent. But it has been spent on SNP stuff, its not as if the money was stolen or not accounted for. The "provision in the accounts" for the sum does not accord with what the donors were promised but I am struggling to see a criminal offence.
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,843

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    And approval ratings are now irrelevant, because Starmer is now leading Johnson?

    A few weeks ago, Starmer's ratings were a resigning matter for many on here, a guaranteed loser many said. Now he's recovering and BoJo is falling, I am sure consistency will be retained, as it always is!

    Just the consistency of the badmouthing of Boris..
    Mr Johnson (not “Boris”) is the Prime Minister. Don’t rattle your pearls as if we’re bullying some defenceless poor schoolboy swot. I know that’s part of his schtick but some of us can see through it.

    Does it make you feel good inside, slagging him olff?
    What a pathetic comment.
    Perfectly reasonable question to ask. You read the comments. Lots of the Boris haters seem to get a form of perverse pleasure out of slagging off Boris.
    Spot on - it really seems to hit the erogenous zone of some of em!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,920
    edited July 2021

    O'Flynn thinks the PM might pull this off.


    "The greased piglet would be running free once again."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/25/falling-case-numbers-may-yet-save-pms-bacon/

    Falling cases numbers in the UK plus rising cases numbers in Europe, USA, Australia and the rest of the world generally would be ideal politically for Boris.
    Is this former UKIP O'Flynn?

    Personally, I think that politically the Govt are waiting for the case numbers to clearly decline from the peak for a period to show it is sustained - imo another 5-10 days - then restrictions will start to be decisively lifted or withdrawn, and latest date of release brought forward, with enough 'probably's to allow a reverse-ferret.

    Then when the rest of Europe goes into the Delta Wave, as it will, the political position will recover. Obvs the self-image-obsessed toss-wazzocks who run EuCo will blame "anybody else but me".

    Then Opposition parties will find that their barrels are not amenable to any more scraping, and they will have to pivot from mudslinging to useful politics.

    And I hope to God that that shocks the current government into getting a coherent political strategy, and the discipline to start carrying Brexit into stage 2 coherently.

    I am not optimistic on the last point, but the first 3 are quite likely.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,044
    She was told that they're a great bunch of lads apparently.


  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,587
    edited July 2021

    She was told that they're a great bunch of lads apparently.


    Fox News is on the phone saying GB News is making then look like a serious news channel, ruining their USP.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,920

    She was told that they're a great bunch of lads apparently.


    We don't know yet of course.

    Though the continued desperate demonisation of the project by the usual suspects suggests that it will be a useful addition to diversity in news reporting.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954
    edited July 2021

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    And approval ratings are now irrelevant, because Starmer is now leading Johnson?

    A few weeks ago, Starmer's ratings were a resigning matter for many on here, a guaranteed loser many said. Now he's recovering and BoJo is falling, I am sure consistency will be retained, as it always is!

    Just the consistency of the badmouthing of Boris..
    Mr Johnson (not “Boris”) is the Prime Minister. Don’t rattle your pearls as if we’re bullying some defenceless poor schoolboy swot. I know that’s part of his schtick but some of us can see through it.

    Does it make you feel good inside, slagging him olff?
    What a pathetic comment.
    Perfectly reasonable question to ask. You read the comments. Lots of the Boris haters seem to get a form of perverse pleasure out of slagging off Boris.
    Is your first name Stanley? Are you his Dad? Is that why you have this weird protective streak towards him and insist on calling him by his preferred Christian name rather than his surname, as befits a PM? Are we supposed to look at the lovable ruffian with his tousled hair and fo “awwww, he’s trying his best”? This is a politics board FFS.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654

    She was told that they're a great bunch of lads apparently.


    Another reason not to watch. How Neil is aligning himself with such people is beyond me.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 11,487
    Sean_F said:

    I'm just rereading Flashman's Lady, which contains this wonderful, and rather relevant line:-

    'But damn it, this fellow is a public school man! Isn't he??'

    'He attended Eton College' says Whampoa gravely, 'but that is not, in itself, necessarily inconsistent with a later life of crime.'

    Written in 1977 when Lord Lucan and Jeremy Thorpe would have been in the news. Half the Cambridge spies, too.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 27,139
    It's a bit sad that I explain an idea that might be positive towards Scottish Independence, and the self-proclaimed Scottish 'experts' on here ignore it and just choose to go on their usual arguments against their enemies.

    If they think it was a stupid idea, fair enough. Ditto in the unlikely event they thought it was a brilliant, positive idea. Instead there is the PB equivalent of tumbleweeds blowing down the glen. But I'd hope they'd at least address the idea ...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    That’s a serious allegation.

    Do you have any evidence? Or are you just throwing mud?
    For someone not a member of the Tory Party you do seem to over-react to words like "Corruption". It is at best ill-advised to take donations from Russians after openly covering up Russian involvement, just as it was ill advised to take donations from people awarded PPE contracts without tender. Or PPE.

    You are quick to bleat that it is legal. Fine. Legal it may be, but morally it is wrong. You are not a Tory member. But you are a Man of Influence in the party (with people approaching you over PPE contracts) and a Reputation to Protect. So your own personal morality is clear and scrupulously protected - glad to hear it.

    So why can you not see that the people in the party of which you are not a member but apparently are seen to be able to influence are doing the wrong thing?
    I take a very strong view that it is morally wrong to accuse people of a crime without providing evidence.

    That is regardless of whether it is wise for the Tories to take donations from many of these people (I happen to think it isn’t)

    Additionally the Mirror doesn’t differentiate between the likes of Len Blavatnik who left Russia in 1978 and built his business the US and other more recent emigrees who probably have murkier links with the Putin regime. In my view judging someone negatively just on the basis of race or place of birth is a deeply unpleasant prejudice. Judge them by their deeds, not the colour of their skin.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,920

    Lutalo Muhammad is very good on BBC explaining everything around kicky kicky in PJs.

    "Kicky kicky in PJs"?

    Is that football's response to The Hundred?
    Without looking, have our £10 million a year heroes gone all baseball?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 5,944
    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    Good to see Police Scotland almost getting a backbone...........https://jaggy.blog/2021/07/25/prosecutors-v-police-scotland/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

    They can have an investigation, they can even make a report with a recommendation but they cannot bring a prosecution.

    What we have here is some blatant lying. People were told that these particular contributions would be put to one side for Indyref 2 and that was not true, they have been spent. But it has been spent on SNP stuff, its not as if the money was stolen or not accounted for. The "provision in the accounts" for the sum does not accord with what the donors were promised but I am struggling to see a criminal offence.
    Would it not be obtaining money by deception? They deceived people as to the use that would be made of the money, and that deception was central to the appeal that lead people to hand money over.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Scottish Independence:

    I guess some of our Scottish friends on here will bemoan me talking about this, as I generally disagree with them on independence probably don't know enough about Scotland, but I really think they missed a trick in 2014.

    If independence is won, it would be a seismic event for Scotland - good or bad - and the quest for it needs to be commemorated. A year or more before a referendum, I would hold meetings all over the country - from
    Islesburgh Community Centre to Coldingham village hall, and everywhere in between. Invite people who want independence to sign their names on sheets of paper, which will then be bound into books for posterity. Millions of names, every one (Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse excepted) vowing their support for an independent country.

    Names and a book that will last hundreds of years, and show the basis for their new-won independence.

    Yes, it can be done on the Internet, but that's [email protected] It means nothing. This will be ink on paper, for posterity. A real, solid meaning.

    Like this?

    https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/new-book-old-ireland-in-colour-uses-modern-technology-to-give-old-photographs-a-new-lease-of-life-39715953.html
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,312

    O'Flynn thinks the PM might pull this off.


    "The greased piglet would be running free once again."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/25/falling-case-numbers-may-yet-save-pms-bacon/

    Falling cases numbers in the UK plus rising cases numbers in Europe, USA, Australia and the rest of the world generally would be ideal politically for Boris.
    Yes, it would be very bad news for the rest of the world, but who cares? As long as it benefits Boris politically. Even better if it hits the French and the Germans particularly badly.

    I'm sure you didn't mean it, but there's an unpleasant cynicism lurking beneath your comment. I'd like to think it's in all our interests if cases plummet everywhere.
    A cynical realism, we're discussing politics.

    We've had weeks of people eagerly predicting huge levels of infection in the UK but in denial that it could happen in other countries.

    Perhaps because damaging Boris is more important than anything else ?

    Now we reach the point where the actual situation might be reversed.

    And some people seem to get touchy at that being pointed out.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,312

    Russia's figures are amazingly consistent. Every day for the last couple of weeks has been around 24k cases and 800 deaths.

    Almost like they're made up numbers :wink:
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    That’s a serious allegation.

    Do you have any evidence? Or are you just throwing mud?
    I have some professional knowledge of some of the individuals who have donated money to the Tory party. This is not clean money. The people are not people with whom any reputable organisation should want to associate with in any capacity.

    Corruption is not the charge - at least not without evidence. Gross naivety and foolishness certainly are.

    Russia is not our friend. You do not become extremely wealthy in Russia by being purer than pure. A healthy degree of scepticism is needed when such people start waving large sums of money at you.
    I fully agree with you @Cyclefree

    I also believe with the importance of backing allegations with evidence
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,800
    An LA Times reporter in Beijing got surrounded by an angry crowd telling him to leave China. It turns out they mistook him for the BBC correspondent Robin Brant.

    https://twitter.com/aliceysu/status/1419143272904069126
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,312

    O'Flynn thinks the PM might pull this off.


    "The greased piglet would be running free once again."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/25/falling-case-numbers-may-yet-save-pms-bacon/

    Falling cases numbers in the UK plus rising cases numbers in Europe, USA, Australia and the rest of the world generally would be ideal politically for Boris.
    Strangely the media become uninterested in reporting such things when that occurs.
    You would never know from the media that the number in hospital in France is higher than in the UK even before France gets affected by its Delta wave.

    Or that the number in hospital in Spain is already proportionally double that of the UK.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 3,513
    edited July 2021

    O'Flynn thinks the PM might pull this off.


    "The greased piglet would be running free once again."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/25/falling-case-numbers-may-yet-save-pms-bacon/

    Falling cases numbers in the UK plus rising cases numbers in Europe, USA, Australia and the rest of the world generally would be ideal politically for Boris.
    Yes, it would be very bad news for the rest of the world, but who cares? As long as it benefits Boris politically. Even better if it hits the French and the Germans particularly badly.

    I'm sure you didn't mean it, but there's an unpleasant cynicism lurking beneath your comment. I'd like to think it's in all our interests if cases plummet everywhere.
    A cynical realism, we're discussing politics.

    We've had weeks of people eagerly predicting huge levels of infection in the UK but in denial that it could happen in other countries.

    Perhaps because damaging Boris is more important than anything else ?

    Now we reach the point where the actual situation might be reversed.

    And some people seem to get touchy at that being pointed out.
    Well, when I said "I'm sure you didn't mean it", it looks like I was wrong. You obviously did. Shame.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,665
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    That’s a serious allegation.

    Do you have any evidence? Or are you just throwing mud?
    For someone not a member of the Tory Party you do seem to over-react to words like "Corruption". It is at best ill-advised to take donations from Russians after openly covering up Russian involvement, just as it was ill advised to take donations from people awarded PPE contracts without tender. Or PPE.

    You are quick to bleat that it is legal. Fine. Legal it may be, but morally it is wrong. You are not a Tory member. But you are a Man of Influence in the party (with people approaching you over PPE contracts) and a Reputation to Protect. So your own personal morality is clear and scrupulously protected - glad to hear it.

    So why can you not see that the people in the party of which you are not a member but apparently are seen to be able to influence are doing the wrong thing?
    I take a very strong view that it is morally wrong to accuse people of a crime without providing evidence.

    That is regardless of whether it is wise for the Tories to take donations from many of these people (I happen to think it isn’t)

    Additionally the Mirror doesn’t differentiate between the likes of Len Blavatnik who left Russia in 1978 and built his business the US and other more recent emigrees who probably have murkier links with the Putin regime. In my view judging someone negatively just on the basis of race or place of birth is a deeply unpleasant prejudice. Judge them by their deeds, not the colour of their skin.
    Can't accuse somebody of a crime without providing evidence? Sounds great but in practice for white collar crime it's absurd. It leads to a bar so high that we could only call someone corrupt if they've been convicted of it. That's way too restrictive.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 8,264

    DougSeal said:

    And approval ratings are now irrelevant, because Starmer is now leading Johnson?

    A few weeks ago, Starmer's ratings were a resigning matter for many on here, a guaranteed loser many said. Now he's recovering and BoJo is falling, I am sure consistency will be retained, as it always is!

    Just the consistency of the badmouthing of Boris..
    Mr Johnson (not “Boris”) is the Prime Minister. Don’t rattle your pearls as if we’re bullying some defenceless poor schoolboy swot. I know that’s part of his schtick but some of us can see through it.

    Does it make you feel good inside, slagging him off?
    Climb off Johnson's dick for five minutes and give your ringpiece a breather.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,044
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    That’s a serious allegation.

    Do you have any evidence? Or are you just throwing mud?
    For someone not a member of the Tory Party you do seem to over-react to words like "Corruption". It is at best ill-advised to take donations from Russians after openly covering up Russian involvement, just as it was ill advised to take donations from people awarded PPE contracts without tender. Or PPE.

    You are quick to bleat that it is legal. Fine. Legal it may be, but morally it is wrong. You are not a Tory member. But you are a Man of Influence in the party (with people approaching you over PPE contracts) and a Reputation to Protect. So your own personal morality is clear and scrupulously protected - glad to hear it.

    So why can you not see that the people in the party of which you are not a member but apparently are seen to be able to influence are doing the wrong thing?
    I take a very strong view that it is morally wrong to accuse people of a crime without providing evidence.

    That is regardless of whether it is wise for the Tories to take donations from many of these people (I happen to think it isn’t)

    Additionally the Mirror doesn’t differentiate between the likes of Len Blavatnik who left Russia in 1978 and built his business the US and other more recent emigrees who probably have murkier links with the Putin regime. In my view judging someone negatively just on the basis of race or place of birth is a deeply unpleasant prejudice. Judge them by their deeds, not the colour of their skin.
    Lofl.

    These guys were people smugglers.

    On what evidence are you basing this?

    Dunno.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 41,077

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    Good to see Police Scotland almost getting a backbone...........https://jaggy.blog/2021/07/25/prosecutors-v-police-scotland/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

    They can have an investigation, they can even make a report with a recommendation but they cannot bring a prosecution.

    What we have here is some blatant lying. People were told that these particular contributions would be put to one side for Indyref 2 and that was not true, they have been spent. But it has been spent on SNP stuff, its not as if the money was stolen or not accounted for. The "provision in the accounts" for the sum does not accord with what the donors were promised but I am struggling to see a criminal offence.
    Would it not be obtaining money by deception? They deceived people as to the use that would be made of the money, and that deception was central to the appeal that lead people to hand money over.
    Doubt it. This article shows what the accounts showed in 2012: https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19390022.snp-refuse-identify-indyref2-funds-accounts-despite-cash-row/

    Even there it is noticeable that amongst the "restricted funds" £520k that was supposedly in the referendum fund had been mainly "transferred to expenditure" with the result the fund stood at £91,325. I am somewhat doubtful that more than £400k had been spent on the 2014 referendum in or by 2012 although we did have an incredible Neverendum the last time around.

    Since then, they have given up on the idea of restricted funds altogether. The promise was that the money would be spent campaigning for Independence. Does spending £325k doing up SNP HQ, gearing it up for this hypothetical fight, breach that or not? I think it is unlikely that it does. Spending it on protecting peoples' reputations by paying their legal costs is a bit trickier.

    Anyone who trusts a politician with money is naïve. Anyone who trusted the current and past members of the Scottish government even more so as well as incapable of learning from experience.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 13,768

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    And approval ratings are now irrelevant, because Starmer is now leading Johnson?

    A few weeks ago, Starmer's ratings were a resigning matter for many on here, a guaranteed loser many said. Now he's recovering and BoJo is falling, I am sure consistency will be retained, as it always is!

    Just the consistency of the badmouthing of Boris..
    Mr Johnson (not “Boris”) is the Prime Minister. Don’t rattle your pearls as if we’re bullying some defenceless poor schoolboy swot. I know that’s part of his schtick but some of us can see through it.

    Does it make you feel good inside, slagging him olff?
    What a pathetic comment.
    Perfectly reasonable question to ask. You read the comments. Lots of the Boris haters seem to get a form of perverse pleasure out of slagging off Boris.
    You told me earlier that I was a "Boris hater".

    I have no particular interest in Mr Johnson personally and wish him no ill will. He doesn't live the personal lifestyle I would chose to live, but that is entirely his business.

    As a voter whose life has been changed for the worse by Johnson's politics, I believe I am allowed an opinion. Now the key issue to me is Brexit, which you may be aware has had a fundamentally negative effect on my future plans. I cannot disagree that the Leave vote won the election which was a folly called by Cameron, who did so in the expectation that he could positively remove the EU issue from politics for a generation. Unfortunately for me and him, he failed, not in small part by Johnson's intervention.

    Now, although I don't like Farage, Cummings, Cash, Francois and a whole range of other Leavers, I respect their view. Where I am supremely critical of Johnson is this notion of the two letters, confirming he had no particular ideology but decided on the basis of which side of the fence benefitted Johnson's ambition most.

    I have read widely, both Johnson's own writing and those who have written about him. The thread thus appears to be, Johnson's primary motivation in his life choices are solely for his own self-gratification followed by his complete disregard for the consequences of his actions. This attitude drives his politics too.

    Johnson is tacitly, but negatively affecting my life choices. I keep out of his life and do not choose to ruin his plans, except for exercising my single vote

    I know he is probably your dad and blood is thicker than water, but I'm just saying ..
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    Good to see Police Scotland almost getting a backbone...........https://jaggy.blog/2021/07/25/prosecutors-v-police-scotland/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

    They can have an investigation, they can even make a report with a recommendation but they cannot bring a prosecution.

    What we have here is some blatant lying. People were told that these particular contributions would be put to one side for Indyref 2 and that was not true, they have been spent. But it has been spent on SNP stuff, its not as if the money was stolen or not accounted for. The "provision in the accounts" for the sum does not accord with what the donors were promised but I am struggling to see a criminal offence.
    Presumably somewhere in the coverup?

    Or possibly false accounting (is that criminal or civil?)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    It's a bit sad that I explain an idea that might be positive towards Scottish Independence, and the self-proclaimed Scottish 'experts' on here ignore it and just choose to go on their usual arguments against their enemies.

    If they think it was a stupid idea, fair enough. Ditto in the unlikely event they thought it was a brilliant, positive idea. Instead there is the PB equivalent of tumbleweeds blowing down the glen. But I'd hope they'd at least address the idea ...

    More risk than upside I suspect.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 11,487
    New thread.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    That’s a serious allegation.

    Do you have any evidence? Or are you just throwing mud?
    For someone not a member of the Tory Party you do seem to over-react to words like "Corruption". It is at best ill-advised to take donations from Russians after openly covering up Russian involvement, just as it was ill advised to take donations from people awarded PPE contracts without tender. Or PPE.

    You are quick to bleat that it is legal. Fine. Legal it may be, but morally it is wrong. You are not a Tory member. But you are a Man of Influence in the party (with people approaching you over PPE contracts) and a Reputation to Protect. So your own personal morality is clear and scrupulously protected - glad to hear it.

    So why can you not see that the people in the party of which you are not a member but apparently are seen to be able to influence are doing the wrong thing?
    I take a very strong view that it is morally wrong to accuse people of a crime without providing evidence.

    That is regardless of whether it is wise for the Tories to take donations from many of these people (I happen to think it isn’t)

    Additionally the Mirror doesn’t differentiate between the likes of Len Blavatnik who left Russia in 1978 and built his business the US and other more recent emigrees who probably have murkier links with the Putin regime. In my view judging someone negatively just on the basis of race or place of birth is a deeply unpleasant prejudice. Judge them by their deeds, not the colour of their skin.
    Can't accuse somebody of a crime without providing evidence? Sounds great but in practice for white collar crime it's absurd. It leads to a bar so high that we could only call someone corrupt if they've been convicted of it. That's way too restrictive.
    The start of this conversation was @CorrectHorseBattery posting a link to a Mirror story about Russian donations to the Tories and stating it was corruption.

    Not only no evidence of a crime, but the story he linked didn’t back him up.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,587
    edited July 2021
    Paging Prof Peston....

    Spain's world number one Rahm has tested positive for the second time in as many months.

    Tokyo Olympics: Bryson DeChambeau and Jon Rahm out of golf after testing positive for Covid-19 - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57959149

    Although in all seriousness, i presume on Rahm case it is actually it never fully went away. Wasn't there some blokein the UK who kept testing positive for nearly a year?

    Golf has been a shambles of a sport during COVID....the game is literally socially distance outdoor activity.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    That’s a serious allegation.

    Do you have any evidence? Or are you just throwing mud?
    For someone not a member of the Tory Party you do seem to over-react to words like "Corruption". It is at best ill-advised to take donations from Russians after openly covering up Russian involvement, just as it was ill advised to take donations from people awarded PPE contracts without tender. Or PPE.

    You are quick to bleat that it is legal. Fine. Legal it may be, but morally it is wrong. You are not a Tory member. But you are a Man of Influence in the party (with people approaching you over PPE contracts) and a Reputation to Protect. So your own personal morality is clear and scrupulously protected - glad to hear it.

    So why can you not see that the people in the party of which you are not a member but apparently are seen to be able to influence are doing the wrong thing?
    I take a very strong view that it is morally wrong to accuse people of a crime without providing evidence.

    That is regardless of whether it is wise for the Tories to take donations from many of these people (I happen to think it isn’t)

    Additionally the Mirror doesn’t differentiate between the likes of Len Blavatnik who left Russia in 1978 and built his business the US and other more recent emigrees who probably have murkier links with the Putin regime. In my view judging someone negatively just on the basis of race or place of birth is a deeply unpleasant prejudice. Judge them by their deeds, not the colour of their skin.
    Lofl.

    These guys were people smugglers.

    On what evidence are you basing this?

    Dunno.
    As I said. I recalled seeing an article that said that. I have not been able to track it down so I can only assume I was wrong. People make mistakes sometimes 🤷‍♂️
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,312

    O'Flynn thinks the PM might pull this off.


    "The greased piglet would be running free once again."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/25/falling-case-numbers-may-yet-save-pms-bacon/

    Falling cases numbers in the UK plus rising cases numbers in Europe, USA, Australia and the rest of the world generally would be ideal politically for Boris.
    Yes, it would be very bad news for the rest of the world, but who cares? As long as it benefits Boris politically. Even better if it hits the French and the Germans particularly badly.

    I'm sure you didn't mean it, but there's an unpleasant cynicism lurking beneath your comment. I'd like to think it's in all our interests if cases plummet everywhere.
    A cynical realism, we're discussing politics.

    We've had weeks of people eagerly predicting huge levels of infection in the UK but in denial that it could happen in other countries.

    Perhaps because damaging Boris is more important than anything else ?

    Now we reach the point where the actual situation might be reversed.

    And some people seem to get touchy at that being pointed out.
    Well, when I said "I'm sure you didn't mean it", it looks like I was wrong. You obviously did. Shame.
    I'm a cynical realist about politics and what my personal views are irrelevant, not that you would chose to believe them if they didn't fit into your own prejudices.

    No criticism there - we're all affected by our own experiences and prejudices.

    But you know I'm right.

    Some people were eager to believe that Delta would be a political disaster for Boris and if it turns out to affect other countries worse their fury will know no bounds. And I can understand why - Boris would have got lucky AGAIN despite making stupid mistakes.

    So does that make me brutal ? Cynical ? Realistic ? Perhaps.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 27,139
    Charles said:

    It's a bit sad that I explain an idea that might be positive towards Scottish Independence, and the self-proclaimed Scottish 'experts' on here ignore it and just choose to go on their usual arguments against their enemies.

    If they think it was a stupid idea, fair enough. Ditto in the unlikely event they thought it was a brilliant, positive idea. Instead there is the PB equivalent of tumbleweeds blowing down the glen. But I'd hope they'd at least address the idea ...

    More risk than upside I suspect.
    You might be correct. However, there are risks with online signings as well (as I think they did in 2013/4). The upside will be focussing on a real, solid object for meetings around the country. A tangible object (or objects).
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,302

    Paging Prof Peston....

    Spain's world number one Rahm has tested positive for the second time in as many months.

    Tokyo Olympics: Bryson DeChambeau and Jon Rahm out of golf after testing positive for Covid-19 - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57959149

    Although in all seriousness, i presume on Rahm case it is actually it never fully went away. Wasn't there some blokein the UK who kept testing positive for nearly a year?

    Golf has been a shambles of a sport during COVID....the game is literally socially distance outdoor activity.

    Presumably Rahm has tested negative many times since Muirfield Village, not least when he came here for The Open.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,920
    tlg86 said:

    Charles said:

    That’s a serious allegation.

    Do you have any evidence? Or are you just throwing mud?
    “Russia-linked”. I guess that covers a multitude of sins...
    There's nothing at all definite in the linked Mirror article.

    Evidence?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,920
    kjh said:

    Good thread....

    NEW: people worry when they hear "40% of hospitalisations are fully vaxxed", but this chart shows that's actually good news.

    The more people you vaccinate, the higher their share of hospitalisations, but the *total* number in hospital is a fraction of what it would otherwise be https://t.co/rPVbvl8zTW

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1418952126244478977?s=19

    Bit complicated for Prof Peston though.....

    Someone posted a good and related comment about vax and hospital the other day. Almost everyone who ends up in hospital following a road accident was wearing a seatbelt.
    That was me (I think). I posted it as a good example of how you can jump to the wrong conclusion by illogically interpreting stats. I posted it in a hope of trying to explain to NerysHughs his ongoing misinterpretation of a different stat about PPE that he doesn't understand at all by showing this really obviously useless one.

    This particular stat was the percentage of people who had died of the delta variant who had been double jabbed compared to overall deaths of the delta variant (can't remember the number now but it was very high). If you misinterpret it, it looks bad, but of course (as per your seat belt example) that percentage would be high. In fact if everyone was double jabbed it would be 100% even if only one person had died. It is a meaningless stat.
    The actual stat is around 15% in hospital are fully vaxxed, is it not?

    The 40% includes those with one jab, and presumably those who's latest jab is less than a fortnight ago.
This discussion has been closed.