I see the stock market has collapsed. Could Boris Johnson's being recognised as being iredeemably crap have anything to do with it? Losing the Tory lead while he's in charge sounds like free money
The stock market hasn't collapsed. The FTSE, the Dow and the major European bourses are all down by a little over 2%. There's been some reporting of concerns about the latest wave of Covid, but that's common to many nations and nothing specifically to do with the crapness of Boris Johnson.
Aren't we back to the March 2020 policy, with what Van Tam has said today?
🚨| NEW Jonathan Van-Tam advises Brits to try to avoid the "Three Cs", where COVID is most likely to spread:
1. Closed settings (with low ventilation) 2. Crowded settings (with many people around) 3. Close-contact settings (especially with strangers)
This will damage places like pubs just at the moment the government is withdrawing financial support.
Do these vaccines bloody work or not? If they don't why are restrictions being lifted? If they do, why this nonsense?
I can see Daughter's business being damaged all over again ... just when she was beginning to see a way out of the last year's nightmare. Grrr .....
I feel for your daughter, I really do. But if the double vaccinated are 60% of the people who are so sick that they require hospitalisation we are so far beyond fucked the hospitality industry is the least of our problems.
We're sixteen months into this shit and the vaccines are pretty much rolled out now. We need to find a way to live with this.
The virus is going to spread, some people are going to die, some businesses are going to fail. Its absolutely shit but there's no alternative.
If people want to go to bars and restaurants, if people want to go clubbing, then they should. If people want to hide away from crowded, close-contact closed settings then that's their choice too.
We need the freedom to choose and take responsibility for our own lives. Life must go on.
Well yes, except that our choices have consequences for others when we turn up at casualty and expect treatment ahead of those who have already had their elective treatment deferred.
The way I see this is that those who are double vaxxed are unlikely to get seriously ill or die. Some will require hospitalisation but it is likely to be relatively brief with a favourable outcome.
Those who choose not to be vaxxed are much, much more at risk. Roughly 20x as much. If they are young and healthy that means their risk is still not massive but it is significantly more than it would be with vaccinations. It is in our interests to persuade these muppets to get vaccinated. If they don't hell mend them. They can take the risk in dying. Having given them the choice we need to get on with our lives. But because they will turn up in casualty in disproportionate numbers it is in our interests to do what we can persuade them to stop being so stupid.
That should be the thrust of government policy in my opinion.
14 ambulances parked outside our ED when I left earlier, unable to offload. 160 patients inside ED.
This is not a good time to get ill.
Tell me about it. As someone in hospital with blood clots on my lungs all too recently I am very conscious of this.
Aren't we back to the March 2020 policy, with what Van Tam has said today?
🚨| NEW Jonathan Van-Tam advises Brits to try to avoid the "Three Cs", where COVID is most likely to spread:
1. Closed settings (with low ventilation) 2. Crowded settings (with many people around) 3. Close-contact settings (especially with strangers)
This will damage places like pubs just at the moment the government is withdrawing financial support.
Do these vaccines bloody work or not? If they don't why are restrictions being lifted? If they do, why this nonsense?
I can see Daughter's business being damaged all over again ... just when she was beginning to see a way out of the last year's nightmare. Grrr .....
I feel for your daughter, I really do. But if the double vaccinated are 60% of the people who are so sick that they require hospitalisation we are so far beyond fucked the hospitality industry is the least of our problems.
We're sixteen months into this shit and the vaccines are pretty much rolled out now. We need to find a way to live with this.
The virus is going to spread, some people are going to die, some businesses are going to fail. Its absolutely shit but there's no alternative.
If people want to go to bars and restaurants, if people want to go clubbing, then they should. If people want to hide away from crowded, close-contact closed settings then that's their choice too.
We need the freedom to choose and take responsibility for our own lives. Life must go on.
Well yes, except that our choices have consequences for others when we turn up at casualty and expect treatment ahead of those who have already had their elective treatment deferred.
The way I see this is that those who are double vaxxed are unlikely to get seriously ill or die. Some will require hospitalisation but it is likely to be relatively brief with a favourable outcome.
Those who choose not to be vaxxed are much, much more at risk. Roughly 20x as much. If they are young and healthy that means their risk is still not massive but it is significantly more than it would be with vaccinations. It is in our interests to persuade these muppets to get vaccinated. If they don't hell mend them. They can take the risk in dying. Having given them the choice we need to get on with our lives. But because they will turn up in casualty in disproportionate numbers it is in our interests to do what we can persuade them to stop being so stupid.
That should be the thrust of government policy in my opinion.
Just read the sodding evidence, including the ONS moving average age-adjusted deaths per 100,000.
The figure is broadly level since 2010, with some variation year to year, e.g. 2018-19 (years are June to May) was a very low winter for respiratory deaths, 2019-20 and 2020-21 were higher than average, largely balancing out.
But never let the facts get in the way of a narrative which sells more vaccines and suppresses 25-50 p pills based on safe 40 year old drugs.
It's trebles all round for pharma boards and shareholders. One wonders how much extra as a result will enter the bank accounts of Whitty, Vallance and van Tam, not to mention certain ministers or ex-ministers.
You been asked several times to produce a link to a study that isn't fraudulent that backs up your claim. You have failed to do so. Frankly you are peddling horseshit
So 2 jabs needed for nightclub entry from September, glad to see the PM was reading my posts earlier
And a pub. And a football ground, probably, theatre. Anywhere crowded probably. because the PM refused to rule it out.
Medical apartheid. Checkpoint Charlie Britain.
Get jabbed and then you can be free, if not then you will face quarantine for foreign travel and refusal of entry to nightclubs and other large events. Your choice
No. I have a third choice. I have the choice to fund and vote for a party that will restore my liberty and chuck authoritarian scum like you out of office.
I am not Hyufd’s No. 1 fan on this site.
But on this, he’s bang on and you’re completely wrong.
There is no party that will ‘restore your liberty’ without your being vaccinated. That is the simple tradeoff they have to make to avoid a major social collapse.
Therefore, if you want to end lockdowns, get jabbed.
If you don’t want get jabbed, stop whining about lockdowns.
Your choice.
But could you please spare the rest of us your hypocrisy?
I am jabbed. I will never be safer from this damn virus than I am now. But clearly the idea that 'get jabbed and you can be free' is not based on reality. They are not interested in 'free' and nor is HYUFD.
Does anyone seriously think that if the Government had decided against Covid Passports he would not have been on here going on about how right their decision was? He doesn't care what they decide, he just supports whatever it is because it is Tory policy.
Absolutely you're right, he's never been a liberal.
But [and I rarely say this] he's right, no mainstream party is going to be purely libertarian on this. We have probably the most libertarian of the three party leaders in Downing Street at the minute but he's not in a position to let the NHS collapse and never will be. Realpolitik gets in the way of principles on this, whether you or I like it or not. Overwhelmingly the biting criticism of the government are from those who find it not enough authoritarian, not those who find it too authoritarian. Tragically.
People like contrarian are increasing the chances of lockdowns. The fewer antivaxxers there are, the less chance of the NHS collapsing and the more liberal the government can be.
Even though personally speaking I'd rather see antivaxxers like contrarian thrown into Nightingale-style hospitals for treatment rather than let them clog up and collapse the NHS.
So 2 jabs needed for nightclub entry from September, glad to see the PM was reading my posts earlier
And a pub. And a football ground, probably, theatre. Anywhere crowded probably. because the PM refused to rule it out.
Medical apartheid. Checkpoint Charlie Britain.
Get jabbed and then you can be free, if not then you will face quarantine for foreign travel and refusal of entry to nightclubs and other large events. Your choice
No. I have a third choice. I have the choice to fund and vote for a party that will restore my liberty and chuck authoritarian scum like you out of office.
I am not Hyufd’s No. 1 fan on this site.
But on this, he’s bang on and you’re completely wrong.
There is no party that will ‘restore your liberty’ without your being vaccinated. That is the simple tradeoff they have to make to avoid a major social collapse.
Therefore, if you want to end lockdowns, get jabbed.
If you don’t want get jabbed, stop whining about lockdowns.
Your choice.
But could you please spare the rest of us your hypocrisy?
I am jabbed. I will never be safer from this damn virus than I am now. But clearly the idea that 'get jabbed and you can be free' is not based on reality. They are not interested in 'free' and nor is HYUFD.
Does anyone seriously think that if the Government had decided against Covid Passports he would not have been on here going on about how right their decision was? He doesn't care what they decide, he just supports whatever it is because it is Tory policy.
Wrong, I was on here earlier and last night advocating Covid passports well before the announcement.
I am a conservative not a libertarian like you and I believe in state power where required to protect others and I am delighted with the new government announcement
Of course you are. You are delighted by every Government announcement and every U-turn and every mistake and every change of direction and every fuck up. Because to you supporting the party matters more than anything else.
Aren't we back to the March 2020 policy, with what Van Tam has said today?
🚨| NEW Jonathan Van-Tam advises Brits to try to avoid the "Three Cs", where COVID is most likely to spread:
1. Closed settings (with low ventilation) 2. Crowded settings (with many people around) 3. Close-contact settings (especially with strangers)
This will damage places like pubs just at the moment the government is withdrawing financial support.
Do these vaccines bloody work or not? If they don't why are restrictions being lifted? If they do, why this nonsense?
I can see Daughter's business being damaged all over again ... just when she was beginning to see a way out of the last year's nightmare. Grrr .....
I feel for your daughter, I really do. But if the double vaccinated are 60% of the people who are so sick that they require hospitalisation we are so far beyond fucked the hospitality industry is the least of our problems.
We're sixteen months into this shit and the vaccines are pretty much rolled out now. We need to find a way to live with this.
The virus is going to spread, some people are going to die, some businesses are going to fail. Its absolutely shit but there's no alternative.
If people want to go to bars and restaurants, if people want to go clubbing, then they should. If people want to hide away from crowded, close-contact closed settings then that's their choice too.
We need the freedom to choose and take responsibility for our own lives. Life must go on.
Well yes, except that our choices have consequences for others when we turn up at casualty and expect treatment ahead of those who have already had their elective treatment deferred.
The way I see this is that those who are double vaxxed are unlikely to get seriously ill or die. Some will require hospitalisation but it is likely to be relatively brief with a favourable outcome.
Those who choose not to be vaxxed are much, much more at risk. Roughly 20x as much. If they are young and healthy that means their risk is still not massive but it is significantly more than it would be with vaccinations. It is in our interests to persuade these muppets to get vaccinated. If they don't hell mend them. They can take the risk in dying. Having given them the choice we need to get on with our lives. But because they will turn up in casualty in disproportionate numbers it is in our interests to do what we can persuade them to stop being so stupid.
That should be the thrust of government policy in my opinion.
Just read the sodding evidence, including the ONS moving average age-adjusted deaths per 100,000.
The figure is broadly level since 2010, with some variation year to year, e.g. 2018-19 (years are June to May) was a very low winter for respiratory deaths, 2019-20 and 2020-21 were higher than average, largely balancing out.
But never let the facts get in the way of a narrative which sells more vaccines and suppresses 25-50 p pills based on safe 40 year old drugs.
It's trebles all round for pharma boards and shareholders. One wonders how much extra as a result will enter the bank accounts of Whitty, Vallance and van Tam, not to mention certain ministers or ex-ministers.
What 40 year old drugs? What's the gold standard evidence for them?
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
Aren't we back to the March 2020 policy, with what Van Tam has said today?
🚨| NEW Jonathan Van-Tam advises Brits to try to avoid the "Three Cs", where COVID is most likely to spread:
1. Closed settings (with low ventilation) 2. Crowded settings (with many people around) 3. Close-contact settings (especially with strangers)
This will damage places like pubs just at the moment the government is withdrawing financial support.
Do these vaccines bloody work or not? If they don't why are restrictions being lifted? If they do, why this nonsense?
I can see Daughter's business being damaged all over again ... just when she was beginning to see a way out of the last year's nightmare. Grrr .....
What do you mean by “work”?
If it’s: do vaccines reduce risk a long way? Then the answer is yes. If it’s: do they reduce risk to zero? Then the answer is no.
Does the (very large) amount by which they reduce risk suffice to reduce risk to a low enough level when prevalence is rife? Then the answer is “we’re in the process of finding out”.
For a 60-year old unvaxxed man, the chance of hospitalisation is about 15% and of death about 1.5%. If the vaccines reduce the hospitalisation rate by a factor of ten to twenty, their chance of hospitalisation is between 0.75%-1.5%. So instead of one in six of them ending up in hospital, about one in sixty to one in one hundred and twenty will.
Is that enough?
A forty year old goes from about 5% risk of hospitalisation to 0.25%-0.5%. Is that enough of a reduction?
We do have a lot of vaxxed 60-year-olds; if one in a hundred of them end up in hospital, then much depends on the timescale by which they do. The same for all the other ages. All in a few weeks in hospital would be overload. Over a longer period: less of an issue. Personally, I’d advise them to stay cautious until the youngsters have all acquired antibodies in whatever way they prefer.
I see the stock market has collapsed. Could Boris Johnson's being recognised as being iredeemably crap have anything to do with it? Losing the Tory lead while he's in charge sounds like free money
Will this Johnson crash, triggered by Johnson's inability to get to grips with the Johnson variant, lead to a deep and prolonged Johnson recession? All but the most focused and determined of Johnson haters - that's me and you - must hope not.
Earlier in the Commons MPs were joking about the campaigners at Westminster today who were protesting about the lockdown that is no longer in place. In the light of this press conference, perhaps the lockdown alarmism of the fanatics outside parliament might appear slightly less hysterical. Because this was the most downbeat press conference Boris Johnson has hosted, at least since he postponed the move to step 4 of the roadmap, and probably for much longer.
At least when the government postponed step 4 of lockdown easing in England for four weeks, Johnson was reasonably confident of the process being irreversible. Now he is actively planning to curtail a freedom that only became available to clubbers 18 hours ago. He is proposing not just mandatory Covid status certification, something previously ruled out, but a form of Covid status certification (only vaccination would count) that was seen as discriminatory when the idea was first discussed in government. Johnson also refused to rule out mandating these Covid passports for a much wider range of venues. (See 5.39pm.) And Prof Jonathan Van-Tam and Sir Patrick Vallance implied that, if cases are not under control by the end of August, the scientists will be calling for other restrictions to be reimposed.
This was not quite the government hitting the panic button. But it did sound like a government nervously fingering the panic button just to be sure it knows where it is.
I'll repeat something I said the other evening: wait and see what the Government does next when hospital admissions exceed 1,000 per day and then keep rising for a week or two afterwards, if that's what happens. I can see Johnson panicking and starting to reimpose restrictions by the middle of next month, never mind the end.
Yep. I am deeply gloomy on where this is headed to be honest.
Aren't we back to the March 2020 policy, with what Van Tam has said today?
🚨| NEW Jonathan Van-Tam advises Brits to try to avoid the "Three Cs", where COVID is most likely to spread:
1. Closed settings (with low ventilation) 2. Crowded settings (with many people around) 3. Close-contact settings (especially with strangers)
This will damage places like pubs just at the moment the government is withdrawing financial support.
Do these vaccines bloody work or not? If they don't why are restrictions being lifted? If they do, why this nonsense?
I can see Daughter's business being damaged all over again ... just when she was beginning to see a way out of the last year's nightmare. Grrr .....
I feel for your daughter, I really do. But if the double vaccinated are 60% of the people who are so sick that they require hospitalisation we are so far beyond fucked the hospitality industry is the least of our problems.
We're sixteen months into this shit and the vaccines are pretty much rolled out now. We need to find a way to live with this.
The virus is going to spread, some people are going to die, some businesses are going to fail. Its absolutely shit but there's no alternative.
If people want to go to bars and restaurants, if people want to go clubbing, then they should. If people want to hide away from crowded, close-contact closed settings then that's their choice too.
We need the freedom to choose and take responsibility for our own lives. Life must go on.
Well yes, except that our choices have consequences for others when we turn up at casualty and expect treatment ahead of those who have already had their elective treatment deferred.
The way I see this is that those who are double vaxxed are unlikely to get seriously ill or die. Some will require hospitalisation but it is likely to be relatively brief with a favourable outcome.
Those who choose not to be vaxxed are much, much more at risk. Roughly 20x as much. If they are young and healthy that means their risk is still not massive but it is significantly more than it would be with vaccinations. It is in our interests to persuade these muppets to get vaccinated. If they don't hell mend them. They can take the risk in dying. Having given them the choice we need to get on with our lives. But because they will turn up in casualty in disproportionate numbers it is in our interests to do what we can persuade them to stop being so stupid.
That should be the thrust of government policy in my opinion.
My option would be to say that the unvaccinated won't be treated in the hospital anymore and that they'll get second rate treatment in a Nightingale Hospital.
If they want treatment we'll still give it, but if they're turning down vaccinations and increasing the strain on the NHS as a result they ought to be the ones who carry the strain.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
Aren't we back to the March 2020 policy, with what Van Tam has said today?
🚨| NEW Jonathan Van-Tam advises Brits to try to avoid the "Three Cs", where COVID is most likely to spread:
1. Closed settings (with low ventilation) 2. Crowded settings (with many people around) 3. Close-contact settings (especially with strangers)
This will damage places like pubs just at the moment the government is withdrawing financial support.
Do these vaccines bloody work or not? If they don't why are restrictions being lifted? If they do, why this nonsense?
I can see Daughter's business being damaged all over again ... just when she was beginning to see a way out of the last year's nightmare. Grrr .....
What do you mean by “work”?
If it’s: do vaccines reduce risk a long way? Then the answer is yes. If it’s: do they reduce risk to zero? Then the answer is no.
Does the (very large) amount by which they reduce risk suffice to reduce risk to a low enough level when prevalence is rife? Then the answer is “we’re in the process of finding out”.
For a 60-year old unvaxxed man, the chance of hospitalisation is about 15% and of death about 1.5%. If the vaccines reduce the hospitalisation rate by a factor of ten to twenty, their chance of hospitalisation is between 0.75%-1.5%. So instead of one in six of them ending up in hospital, about one in sixty to one in one hundred and twenty will.
Is that enough?
A forty year old goes from about 5% risk of hospitalisation to 0.25%-0.5%. Is that enough of a reduction?
We do have a lot of vaxxed 60-year-olds; if one in a hundred of them end up in hospital, then much depends on the timescale by which they do. The same for all the other ages. All in a few weeks in hospital would be overload. Over a longer period: less of an issue. Personally, I’d advise them to stay cautious until the youngsters have all acquired antibodies in whatever way they prefer.
I think the other problem is that the people most likely to visit pubs and clubs are also the people least likely to be double vaccinated.
So 2 jabs needed for nightclub entry from September, glad to see the PM was reading my posts earlier
And a pub. And a football ground, probably, theatre. Anywhere crowded probably. because the PM refused to rule it out.
Medical apartheid. Checkpoint Charlie Britain.
Get jabbed and then you can be free, if not then you will face quarantine for foreign travel and refusal of entry to nightclubs and other large events. Your choice
No. I have a third choice. I have the choice to fund and vote for a party that will restore my liberty and chuck authoritarian scum like you out of office.
I am not Hyufd’s No. 1 fan on this site.
But on this, he’s bang on and you’re completely wrong.
There is no party that will ‘restore your liberty’ without your being vaccinated. That is the simple tradeoff they have to make to avoid a major social collapse.
Therefore, if you want to end lockdowns, get jabbed.
If you don’t want get jabbed, stop whining about lockdowns.
Your choice.
But could you please spare the rest of us your hypocrisy?
The social collapse and economic collapse is coming anyway, courtesy of a government that cannot pay its way because of its own catastrophic policy decisions.
The USA seems to have retained freedom of speech on the pros and cons of the COVID vaccines more effectively than most of Europe, hence one read material like this ... months ago ...
In other words, in 2020-21 the humans are the lab rats.
Lockdown is a disaster and the vaccines are not preventing infections, although they are claimed to reduce the severity. Read the small print you were given before you were jabbed.
Oh, what's that, you weren't given any small print, or you got it after the jab ...? Medical ethics used to require patients to give prior informed consent to any treatment, especially if it carried risks.
Luckily, the number of repurposed generic drugs for COVID is steadily lengthening and they're widely used in developing countries. Some have had less than 10 deaths in 40 years. You'd have to be mad to accept jabs with a roughly 1:30,000 mortality risk.
I don't have time to list all the 100s of URLs but I'm sure if you get COVID despite being jabbed you could get a private 15 min. consultation with Dr T Lawrie, Dr P Kory or Dr P McCullough. Dr Kory is prescribing some of the available drugs to vaccine-injured patients. I'd rather people just studied the evidence and went for the safe cheap treatment in the first place ... if they need it.
I was given about 4 pages of stuff when I was jabbed. You're nuts, best of luck without vaccination against delta 👌👋👋👋
Sure, a longer track record for the vaccines would be nice, but the track record of covid itself makes the decision an easy one. I have no desire to play Russian roulette with this virus.
The netflix shows and spotify podcast not enough money....
The Duke of Sussex, 36, has been secretly working on the book for nearly a year which he has since sold to Penguin Random House. Prince Harry has been working with Pulitzer-winning ghostwriter J. R. Moehringer in what is the first time a senior royal has ever written such a book.
I see the stock market has collapsed. Could Boris Johnson's being recognised as being iredeemably crap have anything to do with it? Losing the Tory lead while he's in charge sounds like free money
Bloody hell, Boris has sent the S&P down by 2%, your insight is incredible.
First we had the Johnson variant now the Johnson crash. Is there no end to this nightmare
I see the stock market has collapsed. Could Boris Johnson's being recognised as being iredeemably crap have anything to do with it? Losing the Tory lead while he's in charge sounds like free money
Damn, the FTSE 100 is only up 13% in the year. Its a disaster. I blame Brexit of course.
So 2 jabs needed for nightclub entry from September, glad to see the PM was reading my posts earlier
And a pub. And a football ground, probably, theatre. Anywhere crowded probably. because the PM refused to rule it out.
Medical apartheid. Checkpoint Charlie Britain.
Get jabbed and then you can be free, if not then you will face quarantine for foreign travel and refusal of entry to nightclubs and other large events. Your choice
It's just a threat to encourage young people to hit the needle. There's no serious practical prospect of vaxports for nightclubs and the like. That's my take.
My take was the opposite. If this is over, why such clear planning for next winter?
Boris said he doesn’t want to see vaxpass needed to walk up to a bar and buy a beer. Pointedly didn’t rule it out though did he.
The other thing that clearly came across, JVT happy for the nightclub super spreader events to be happening, Vallance against it, very frosty between them all the way through the media conference did you notice?
I didn't watch but I can believe it. Apparently there is no strong consensus across the big players.
But ok I feel a bet coming on. It's the USP of the site after all.
I say by end 2021 there will NOT be vaxports for nightclubs in England.
Even money, charity or site funds, I will accommodate all comers up to £25 each.
Take me to the cleaners!
When you say 'NOT be vaxports for Nightclubs' do you mean:
a) There will be no government mandate for clubs to have them. and most will not be doing it voluntarily
b) There will be no government mandate for clubs to have them. even if some/most will be doing it voluntarily
c) Nightclubs will be closed by government decree again
d) All the nightclubs will have gone out of bissness by then
I am increasing suspecting that the latest data is showing lower vaccine efficiency hence the nightclub rules and you just can't get away with having an infected unvaccinated person in a big crowd without infecting a reason number of even vaccinated people.
It's rampant in my village and it seemingly makes no difference whether or not you are double jabbed, although the latter have a significantly lesser illness. That said, Sir Patrick Vallance said before that 60% of those admitted to hospital have been fully vaccinated.
Did he say that, I missed that.... are you sure he said fully vaccinated rather than partially vaccinated? Because that's a massive shift, a week or so ago, we were looking at more like 85-90% were not fully vaccinated, same with cases.
That's really bad news. We aren't talking about refuseniks filling up beds.
That seem out of whack with the information.last week, zoe app and what Dr Foxy said yesterday.
I thought he said 16% not 60%. 16% matches up with the 12% from earlier last month and the 15% figure we got a few days ago.
Yes, I hope it's 16%. 60% would be truly alarming.
--AS
If it’s 60% (especially if linked to one or other of the vaccines specifically) then surely they need to be forgetting about jabbing the young and get the booster programmes going now?
The netflix shows and spotify podcast not enough money....
The Duke of Sussex, 36, has been secretly working on the book for nearly a year which he has since sold to Penguin Random House. Prince Harry has been working with Pulitzer-winning ghostwriter J. R. Moehringer in what is the first time a senior royal has ever written such a book.
A question for the scientists. We are told that adapting the vaccine to a new variant is a really quick process. Delta has been around for 4 months now, why is there not a new version of any of the vaccines to attack delta yet? When should we expect them?
Aren't we back to the March 2020 policy, with what Van Tam has said today?
🚨| NEW Jonathan Van-Tam advises Brits to try to avoid the "Three Cs", where COVID is most likely to spread:
1. Closed settings (with low ventilation) 2. Crowded settings (with many people around) 3. Close-contact settings (especially with strangers)
This will damage places like pubs just at the moment the government is withdrawing financial support.
Do these vaccines bloody work or not? If they don't why are restrictions being lifted? If they do, why this nonsense?
I can see Daughter's business being damaged all over again ... just when she was beginning to see a way out of the last year's nightmare. Grrr .....
I feel for your daughter, I really do. But if the double vaccinated are 60% of the people who are so sick that they require hospitalisation we are so far beyond fucked the hospitality industry is the least of our problems.
We're sixteen months into this shit and the vaccines are pretty much rolled out now. We need to find a way to live with this.
The virus is going to spread, some people are going to die, some businesses are going to fail. Its absolutely shit but there's no alternative.
If people want to go to bars and restaurants, if people want to go clubbing, then they should. If people want to hide away from crowded, close-contact closed settings then that's their choice too.
We need the freedom to choose and take responsibility for our own lives. Life must go on.
Well yes, except that our choices have consequences for others when we turn up at casualty and expect treatment ahead of those who have already had their elective treatment deferred.
The way I see this is that those who are double vaxxed are unlikely to get seriously ill or die. Some will require hospitalisation but it is likely to be relatively brief with a favourable outcome.
Those who choose not to be vaxxed are much, much more at risk. Roughly 20x as much. If they are young and healthy that means their risk is still not massive but it is significantly more than it would be with vaccinations. It is in our interests to persuade these muppets to get vaccinated. If they don't hell mend them. They can take the risk in dying. Having given them the choice we need to get on with our lives. But because they will turn up in casualty in disproportionate numbers it is in our interests to do what we can persuade them to stop being so stupid.
That should be the thrust of government policy in my opinion.
Just read the sodding evidence, including the ONS moving average age-adjusted deaths per 100,000.
The figure is broadly level since 2010, with some variation year to year, e.g. 2018-19 (years are June to May) was a very low winter for respiratory deaths, 2019-20 and 2020-21 were higher than average, largely balancing out.
But never let the facts get in the way of a narrative which sells more vaccines and suppresses 25-50 p pills based on safe 40 year old drugs.
It's trebles all round for pharma boards and shareholders. One wonders how much extra as a result will enter the bank accounts of Whitty, Vallance and van Tam, not to mention certain ministers or ex-ministers.
Meanwhile, the price of ivermectin has quintupled, despite the only paper that really supports it turning out to be so dodgy that it’s not only been withdrawn, but also “the Egyptian Minister of Higher Education has launched an investigation into the Elgazzar et al ivermectin study which was recently withdrawn after numerous serious questions were raised about it.”
I wonder who are the ones peddling snake oil for money?
So 2 jabs needed for nightclub entry from September, glad to see the PM was reading my posts earlier
And a pub. And a football ground, probably, theatre. Anywhere crowded probably. because the PM refused to rule it out.
Medical apartheid. Checkpoint Charlie Britain.
Get jabbed and then you can be free, if not then you will face quarantine for foreign travel and refusal of entry to nightclubs and other large events. Your choice
No. I have a third choice. I have the choice to fund and vote for a party that will restore my liberty and chuck authoritarian scum like you out of office.
I am not Hyufd’s No. 1 fan on this site.
But on this, he’s bang on and you’re completely wrong.
There is no party that will ‘restore your liberty’ without your being vaccinated. That is the simple tradeoff they have to make to avoid a major social collapse.
Therefore, if you want to end lockdowns, get jabbed.
If you don’t want get jabbed, stop whining about lockdowns.
Your choice.
But could you please spare the rest of us your hypocrisy?
The social collapse and economic collapse is coming anyway, courtesy of a government that cannot pay its way because of its own catastrophic policy decisions.
The USA seems to have retained freedom of speech on the pros and cons of the COVID vaccines more effectively than most of Europe, hence one read material like this ... months ago ...
In other words, in 2020-21 the humans are the lab rats.
Lockdown is a disaster and the vaccines are not preventing infections, although they are claimed to reduce the severity. Read the small print you were given before you were jabbed.
Oh, what's that, you weren't given any small print, or you got it after the jab ...? Medical ethics used to require patients to give prior informed consent to any treatment, especially if it carried risks.
Luckily, the number of repurposed generic drugs for COVID is steadily lengthening and they're widely used in developing countries. Some have had less than 10 deaths in 40 years. You'd have to be mad to accept jabs with a roughly 1:30,000 mortality risk.
I don't have time to list all the 100s of URLs but I'm sure if you get COVID despite being jabbed you could get a private 15 min. consultation with Dr T Lawrie, Dr P Kory or Dr P McCullough. Dr Kory is prescribing some of the available drugs to vaccine-injured patients. I'd rather people just studied the evidence and went for the safe cheap treatment in the first place ... if they need it.
I was given about 4 pages of stuff when I was jabbed. You're nuts, best of luck without vaccination against delta 👌👋👋👋
Sure, a longer track record for the vaccines would be nice, but the track record of covid itself makes the decision an easy one. I have no desire to play Russian roulette with this virus.
Of the arguments put forward for turning down a jab, the most difficult to challenge is ‘there isn’t any long term safety data’. It’s used by anti-vaxxers, but also strikes me as a valid concern for vaccine hesitant people caught up in the Covid-19 info grinder.
Aren't we back to the March 2020 policy, with what Van Tam has said today?
🚨| NEW Jonathan Van-Tam advises Brits to try to avoid the "Three Cs", where COVID is most likely to spread:
1. Closed settings (with low ventilation) 2. Crowded settings (with many people around) 3. Close-contact settings (especially with strangers)
This will damage places like pubs just at the moment the government is withdrawing financial support.
Do these vaccines bloody work or not? If they don't why are restrictions being lifted? If they do, why this nonsense?
I can see Daughter's business being damaged all over again ... just when she was beginning to see a way out of the last year's nightmare. Grrr .....
I feel for your daughter, I really do. But if the double vaccinated are 60% of the people who are so sick that they require hospitalisation we are so far beyond fucked the hospitality industry is the least of our problems.
We're sixteen months into this shit and the vaccines are pretty much rolled out now. We need to find a way to live with this.
The virus is going to spread, some people are going to die, some businesses are going to fail. Its absolutely shit but there's no alternative.
If people want to go to bars and restaurants, if people want to go clubbing, then they should. If people want to hide away from crowded, close-contact closed settings then that's their choice too.
We need the freedom to choose and take responsibility for our own lives. Life must go on.
Well yes, except that our choices have consequences for others when we turn up at casualty and expect treatment ahead of those who have already had their elective treatment deferred.
The way I see this is that those who are double vaxxed are unlikely to get seriously ill or die. Some will require hospitalisation but it is likely to be relatively brief with a favourable outcome.
Those who choose not to be vaxxed are much, much more at risk. Roughly 20x as much. If they are young and healthy that means their risk is still not massive but it is significantly more than it would be with vaccinations. It is in our interests to persuade these muppets to get vaccinated. If they don't hell mend them. They can take the risk in dying. Having given them the choice we need to get on with our lives. But because they will turn up in casualty in disproportionate numbers it is in our interests to do what we can persuade them to stop being so stupid.
That should be the thrust of government policy in my opinion.
Just read the sodding evidence, including the ONS moving average age-adjusted deaths per 100,000.
The figure is broadly level since 2010, with some variation year to year, e.g. 2018-19 (years are June to May) was a very low winter for respiratory deaths, 2019-20 and 2020-21 were higher than average, largely balancing out.
But never let the facts get in the way of a narrative which sells more vaccines and suppresses 25-50 p pills based on safe 40 year old drugs.
It's trebles all round for pharma boards and shareholders. One wonders how much extra as a result will enter the bank accounts of Whitty, Vallance and van Tam, not to mention certain ministers or ex-ministers.
Meanwhile, the price of ivermectin has quintupled, despite the only paper that really supports it turning out to be so dodgy that it’s not only been withdrawn, but also “the Egyptian Minister of Higher Education has launched an investigation into the Elgazzar et al ivermectin study which was recently withdrawn after numerous serious questions were raised about it.”
I wonder who are the ones peddling snake oil for money?
Rural voter does seem like that bloke in Contagion ramping up forsythia as a cure
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
The latter category are not obviously statistically significant.
The netflix shows and spotify podcast not enough money....
The Duke of Sussex, 36, has been secretly working on the book for nearly a year which he has since sold to Penguin Random House. Prince Harry has been working with Pulitzer-winning ghostwriter J. R. Moehringer in what is the first time a senior royal has ever written such a book.
So 2 jabs needed for nightclub entry from September, glad to see the PM was reading my posts earlier
And a pub. And a football ground, probably, theatre. Anywhere crowded probably. because the PM refused to rule it out.
Medical apartheid. Checkpoint Charlie Britain.
Get jabbed and then you can be free, if not then you will face quarantine for foreign travel and refusal of entry to nightclubs and other large events. Your choice
No. I have a third choice. I have the choice to fund and vote for a party that will restore my liberty and chuck authoritarian scum like you out of office.
I am not Hyufd’s No. 1 fan on this site.
But on this, he’s bang on and you’re completely wrong.
There is no party that will ‘restore your liberty’ without your being vaccinated. That is the simple tradeoff they have to make to avoid a major social collapse.
Therefore, if you want to end lockdowns, get jabbed.
If you don’t want get jabbed, stop whining about lockdowns.
Your choice.
But could you please spare the rest of us your hypocrisy?
I am jabbed. I will never be safer from this damn virus than I am now. But clearly the idea that 'get jabbed and you can be free' is not based on reality. They are not interested in 'free' and nor is HYUFD.
Does anyone seriously think that if the Government had decided against Covid Passports he would not have been on here going on about how right their decision was? He doesn't care what they decide, he just supports whatever it is because it is Tory policy.
This is about contrarian, not Hyufd. Contrarian, who has consistently abused and threatened those in favour of lockdowns and boasted about his opposition to them, and is now refusing to take the step that could finally bring them to an end.
I have no fundamental objection to principled anti-vaxxers, although I think they’re idiots and I wish they would change their minds. That’s their privilege. I have no objection to people opposed to lockdowns, which after all are to put it mildly less than ideal.
Somebody who claims to be opposed to both is just being a muppet. Doing so in such a self-righteous and arrogant way makes it worse.
He reminds me of the Catholic hierarchy, who oppose contraception and abortion. Well, newsflash guys, in the real world it’s one or the other. And contraception is a lot less damaging.
Lockdown is a disaster and the vaccines are not preventing infections, although they are claimed to reduce the severity. Read the small print you were given before you were jabbed.
So 2 jabs needed for nightclub entry from September, glad to see the PM was reading my posts earlier
And a pub. And a football ground, probably, theatre. Anywhere crowded probably. because the PM refused to rule it out.
Medical apartheid. Checkpoint Charlie Britain.
Get jabbed and then you can be free, if not then you will face quarantine for foreign travel and refusal of entry to nightclubs and other large events. Your choice
No. I have a third choice. I have the choice to fund and vote for a party that will restore my liberty and chuck authoritarian scum like you out of office.
I am not Hyufd’s No. 1 fan on this site.
But on this, he’s bang on and you’re completely wrong.
There is no party that will ‘restore your liberty’ without your being vaccinated. That is the simple tradeoff they have to make to avoid a major social collapse.
Therefore, if you want to end lockdowns, get jabbed.
If you don’t want get jabbed, stop whining about lockdowns.
Your choice.
But could you please spare the rest of us your hypocrisy?
The social collapse and economic collapse is coming anyway, courtesy of a government that cannot pay its way because of its own catastrophic policy decisions.
The USA seems to have retained freedom of speech on the pros and cons of the COVID vaccines more effectively than most of Europe, hence one read material like this ... months ago ...
In other words, in 2020-21 the humans are the lab rats.
Lockdown is a disaster and the vaccines are not preventing infections, although they are claimed to reduce the severity. Read the small print you were given before you were jabbed.
Oh, what's that, you weren't given any small print, or you got it after the jab ...? Medical ethics used to require patients to give prior informed consent to any treatment, especially if it carried risks.
Luckily, the number of repurposed generic drugs for COVID is steadily lengthening and they're widely used in developing countries. Some have had less than 10 deaths in 40 years. You'd have to be mad to accept jabs with a roughly 1:30,000 mortality risk.
I don't have time to list all the 100s of URLs but I'm sure if you get COVID despite being jabbed you could get a private 15 min. consultation with Dr T Lawrie, Dr P Kory or Dr P McCullough. Dr Kory is prescribing some of the available drugs to vaccine-injured patients. I'd rather people just studied the evidence and went for the safe cheap treatment in the first place ... if they need it.
I was given about 4 pages of stuff when I was jabbed. You're nuts, best of luck without vaccination against delta 👌👋👋👋
I've got a supply of the cheap generic drugs used by doctors with a conscience ... bought from developing countries where they're saving lives compared. The UK policy, slavishly followed by many doctors who value a quite life, seems to consist of waiting for people to get serious or critical (and sometimes die when they could have been saved) if treated earlier.
Don't call me a nutter, read some serious scientific papers. I'm all for following the evidence and for being sceptical about people whose lucrative career depends on not following real evidence.
See, e.g. www.hartgroup.org if you want a list of some experts who aren't bought by government or industry.
Further, the many people who caught COVID in March/April 2020 should not be vaccinated. Based on the testing on people who were exposed to SARS-CoV-1, they are likely to be immune for many years, possibly life.
I am increasing suspecting that the latest data is showing lower vaccine efficiency hence the nightclub rules and you just can't get away with having an infected unvaccinated person in a big crowd without infecting a reason number of even vaccinated people.
It's rampant in my village and it seemingly makes no difference whether or not you are double jabbed, although the latter have a significantly lesser illness. That said, Sir Patrick Vallance said before that 60% of those admitted to hospital have been fully vaccinated.
Did he say that, I missed that.... are you sure he said fully vaccinated rather than partially vaccinated? Because that's a massive shift, a week or so ago, we were looking at more like 85-90% were not fully vaccinated, same with cases.
That's really bad news. We aren't talking about refuseniks filling up beds.
That seem out of whack with the information.last week, zoe app and what Dr Foxy said yesterday.
I thought he said 16% not 60%. 16% matches up with the 12% from earlier last month and the 15% figure we got a few days ago.
Yes, I hope it's 16%. 60% would be truly alarming.
--AS
If it’s 60% (especially if linked to one or other of the vaccines specifically) then surely they need to be forgetting about jabbing the young and get the booster programmes going now?
The 60% figure has already been discussed further downthread and is not particularly alarming, when one takes into account the relative vulnerability of the fully vaccinated segment of the population versus those with partial or no protection from vaccines. All is well on that front.
I am increasing suspecting that the latest data is showing lower vaccine efficiency hence the nightclub rules and you just can't get away with having an infected unvaccinated person in a big crowd without infecting a reason number of even vaccinated people.
It's rampant in my village and it seemingly makes no difference whether or not you are double jabbed, although the latter have a significantly lesser illness. That said, Sir Patrick Vallance said before that 60% of those admitted to hospital have been fully vaccinated.
Did he say that, I missed that.... are you sure he said fully vaccinated rather than partially vaccinated? Because that's a massive shift, a week or so ago, we were looking at more like 85-90% were not fully vaccinated, same with cases.
That's really bad news. We aren't talking about refuseniks filling up beds.
That seem out of whack with the information.last week, zoe app and what Dr Foxy said yesterday.
I thought he said 16% not 60%. 16% matches up with the 12% from earlier last month and the 15% figure we got a few days ago.
Yes, I hope it's 16%. 60% would be truly alarming.
--AS
If it’s 60% (especially if linked to one or other of the vaccines specifically) then surely they need to be forgetting about jabbing the young and get the booster programmes going now?
I suggested 10% were double vaxxed, but that was just corridor chat with my respiratory colleagues.
Points to effectiveness against hospitalisation of 91%...
I think 🤔 that is how it works
It might be even more effective than that. If the estimated population is overstated for any reason, e.g. being based on mid 2019 estimates, and some EU nationals have left since then, that would mean that the un-vaxed population is smaller and therefor the ratios for hospitalisation are much higher for that group.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
I am increasing suspecting that the latest data is showing lower vaccine efficiency hence the nightclub rules and you just can't get away with having an infected unvaccinated person in a big crowd without infecting a reason number of even vaccinated people.
It's rampant in my village and it seemingly makes no difference whether or not you are double jabbed, although the latter have a significantly lesser illness. That said, Sir Patrick Vallance said before that 60% of those admitted to hospital have been fully vaccinated.
Did he say that, I missed that.... are you sure he said fully vaccinated rather than partially vaccinated? Because that's a massive shift, a week or so ago, we were looking at more like 85-90% were not fully vaccinated, same with cases.
That's really bad news. We aren't talking about refuseniks filling up beds.
That seem out of whack with the information.last week, zoe app and what Dr Foxy said yesterday.
I thought he said 16% not 60%. 16% matches up with the 12% from earlier last month and the 15% figure we got a few days ago.
Yes, I hope it's 16%. 60% would be truly alarming.
--AS
If it’s 60% (especially if linked to one or other of the vaccines specifically) then surely they need to be forgetting about jabbing the young and get the booster programmes going now?
I think it's largely unknown how much a third dose further reduces risk of severe disease. The only studies I know of were looking at antibody titres, but it's really uncertain how well that converts into protection.
Now would be a good time for a decent size trial (actually a couple of months ago would have been better). I know there is at least one going on somewhere near me, as I saw an advert for double-dosed healthy volunteers to sign up for a third jab. I would have done, except I don't meet the healthiness condition!
Notwithstanding the lack of concrete information, I do hope they are taking an autumn booster campaign seriously. There's something in the reporting that makes me nervous about that: perhaps the vagueness with which it is mentioned.
I am increasing suspecting that the latest data is showing lower vaccine efficiency hence the nightclub rules and you just can't get away with having an infected unvaccinated person in a big crowd without infecting a reason number of even vaccinated people.
It's rampant in my village and it seemingly makes no difference whether or not you are double jabbed, although the latter have a significantly lesser illness. That said, Sir Patrick Vallance said before that 60% of those admitted to hospital have been fully vaccinated.
Did he say that, I missed that.... are you sure he said fully vaccinated rather than partially vaccinated? Because that's a massive shift, a week or so ago, we were looking at more like 85-90% were not fully vaccinated, same with cases.
That's really bad news. We aren't talking about refuseniks filling up beds.
That seem out of whack with the information.last week, zoe app and what Dr Foxy said yesterday.
I thought he said 16% not 60%. 16% matches up with the 12% from earlier last month and the 15% figure we got a few days ago.
Yes, I hope it's 16%. 60% would be truly alarming.
--AS
If it’s 60% (especially if linked to one or other of the vaccines specifically) then surely they need to be forgetting about jabbing the young and get the booster programmes going now?
We can easily do both. AZ as the booster jab for 50+ could roll out within a couple of weeks numbering in the many millions per week if necessary. We have got loads of it sitting in fridges.
So 2 jabs needed for nightclub entry from September, glad to see the PM was reading my posts earlier
And a pub. And a football ground, probably, theatre. Anywhere crowded probably. because the PM refused to rule it out.
Medical apartheid. Checkpoint Charlie Britain.
Get jabbed and then you can be free, if not then you will face quarantine for foreign travel and refusal of entry to nightclubs and other large events. Your choice
No. I have a third choice. I have the choice to fund and vote for a party that will restore my liberty and chuck authoritarian scum like you out of office.
I am not Hyufd’s No. 1 fan on this site.
But on this, he’s bang on and you’re completely wrong.
There is no party that will ‘restore your liberty’ without your being vaccinated. That is the simple tradeoff they have to make to avoid a major social collapse.
Therefore, if you want to end lockdowns, get jabbed.
If you don’t want get jabbed, stop whining about lockdowns.
Your choice.
But could you please spare the rest of us your hypocrisy?
The social collapse and economic collapse is coming anyway, courtesy of a government that cannot pay its way because of its own catastrophic policy decisions.
The USA seems to have retained freedom of speech on the pros and cons of the COVID vaccines more effectively than most of Europe, hence one read material like this ... months ago ...
In other words, in 2020-21 the humans are the lab rats.
Lockdown is a disaster and the vaccines are not preventing infections, although they are claimed to reduce the severity. Read the small print you were given before you were jabbed.
Oh, what's that, you weren't given any small print, or you got it after the jab ...? Medical ethics used to require patients to give prior informed consent to any treatment, especially if it carried risks.
Luckily, the number of repurposed generic drugs for COVID is steadily lengthening and they're widely used in developing countries. Some have had less than 10 deaths in 40 years. You'd have to be mad to accept jabs with a roughly 1:30,000 mortality risk.
I don't have time to list all the 100s of URLs but I'm sure if you get COVID despite being jabbed you could get a private 15 min. consultation with Dr T Lawrie, Dr P Kory or Dr P McCullough. Dr Kory is prescribing some of the available drugs to vaccine-injured patients. I'd rather people just studied the evidence and went for the safe cheap treatment in the first place ... if they need it.
I was given about 4 pages of stuff when I was jabbed. You're nuts, best of luck without vaccination against delta 👌👋👋👋
I've got a supply of the cheap generic drugs used by doctors with a conscience ... bought from developing countries where they're saving lives compared. The UK policy, slavishly followed by many doctors who value a quite life, seems to consist of waiting for people to get serious or critical (and sometimes die when they could have been saved) if treated earlier.
Don't call me a nutter, read some serious scientific papers. I'm all for following the evidence and for being sceptical about people whose lucrative career depends on not following real evidence.
See, e.g. www.hartgroup.org if you want a list of some experts who aren't bought by government or industry.
Further, the many people who caught COVID in March/April 2020 should not be vaccinated. Based on the testing on people who were exposed to SARS-CoV-1, they are likely to be immune for many years, possibly life.
Over and out.
So, what you're saying - and I want to just check this - is that all the doctors and scientists who have run trials that show that ivermectin is ineffective are basically amoral scumbags who're faking results in return for big money from pharmaceutical companies?
Edit to add:
Apologies. I realise that they might not be amoral scumbags who're faking results in return for big money from pharmaceutical companies, but instead they might be amoral scumbags who're faking results because they want to watch their fellow man suffer the ravages of Covid.
There may be a third explanation, but I'm damned if I can think of it. @rural_voter, please help.
So 2 jabs needed for nightclub entry from September, glad to see the PM was reading my posts earlier
And a pub. And a football ground, probably, theatre. Anywhere crowded probably. because the PM refused to rule it out.
Medical apartheid. Checkpoint Charlie Britain.
Get jabbed and then you can be free, if not then you will face quarantine for foreign travel and refusal of entry to nightclubs and other large events. Your choice
No. I have a third choice. I have the choice to fund and vote for a party that will restore my liberty and chuck authoritarian scum like you out of office.
I am not Hyufd’s No. 1 fan on this site.
But on this, he’s bang on and you’re completely wrong.
There is no party that will ‘restore your liberty’ without your being vaccinated. That is the simple tradeoff they have to make to avoid a major social collapse.
Therefore, if you want to end lockdowns, get jabbed.
If you don’t want get jabbed, stop whining about lockdowns.
Your choice.
But could you please spare the rest of us your hypocrisy?
The social collapse and economic collapse is coming anyway, courtesy of a government that cannot pay its way because of its own catastrophic policy decisions.
The USA seems to have retained freedom of speech on the pros and cons of the COVID vaccines more effectively than most of Europe, hence one read material like this ... months ago ...
In other words, in 2020-21 the humans are the lab rats.
Lockdown is a disaster and the vaccines are not preventing infections, although they are claimed to reduce the severity. Read the small print you were given before you were jabbed.
Oh, what's that, you weren't given any small print, or you got it after the jab ...? Medical ethics used to require patients to give prior informed consent to any treatment, especially if it carried risks.
Luckily, the number of repurposed generic drugs for COVID is steadily lengthening and they're widely used in developing countries. Some have had less than 10 deaths in 40 years. You'd have to be mad to accept jabs with a roughly 1:30,000 mortality risk.
I don't have time to list all the 100s of URLs but I'm sure if you get COVID despite being jabbed you could get a private 15 min. consultation with Dr T Lawrie, Dr P Kory or Dr P McCullough. Dr Kory is prescribing some of the available drugs to vaccine-injured patients. I'd rather people just studied the evidence and went for the safe cheap treatment in the first place ... if they need it.
I was given about 4 pages of stuff when I was jabbed. You're nuts, best of luck without vaccination against delta 👌👋👋👋
I've got a supply of the cheap generic drugs used by doctors with a conscience ... bought from developing countries where they're saving lives compared. The UK policy, slavishly followed by many doctors who value a quite life, seems to consist of waiting for people to get serious or critical (and sometimes die when they could have been saved) if treated earlier.
Don't call me a nutter, read some serious scientific papers. I'm all for following the evidence and for being sceptical about people whose lucrative career depends on not following real evidence.
See, e.g. www.hartgroup.org if you want a list of some experts who aren't bought by government or industry.
Further, the many people who caught COVID in March/April 2020 should not be vaccinated. Based on the testing on people who were exposed to SARS-CoV-1, they are likely to be immune for many years, possibly life.
Over and out.
Cite the serious scientific papers. What is difficult about that?
I am increasing suspecting that the latest data is showing lower vaccine efficiency hence the nightclub rules and you just can't get away with having an infected unvaccinated person in a big crowd without infecting a reason number of even vaccinated people.
It's rampant in my village and it seemingly makes no difference whether or not you are double jabbed, although the latter have a significantly lesser illness. That said, Sir Patrick Vallance said before that 60% of those admitted to hospital have been fully vaccinated.
Did he say that, I missed that.... are you sure he said fully vaccinated rather than partially vaccinated? Because that's a massive shift, a week or so ago, we were looking at more like 85-90% were not fully vaccinated, same with cases.
That's really bad news. We aren't talking about refuseniks filling up beds.
That seem out of whack with the information.last week, zoe app and what Dr Foxy said yesterday.
I thought he said 16% not 60%. 16% matches up with the 12% from earlier last month and the 15% figure we got a few days ago.
Yes, I hope it's 16%. 60% would be truly alarming.
--AS
If it’s 60% (especially if linked to one or other of the vaccines specifically) then surely they need to be forgetting about jabbing the young and get the booster programmes going now?
I think it's largely unknown how much a third dose further reduces risk of severe disease. The only studies I know of were looking at antibody titres, but it's really uncertain how well that converts into protection.
Now would be a good time for a decent size trial (actually a couple of months ago would have been better). I know there is at least one going on somewhere near me, as I saw an advert for double-dosed healthy volunteers to sign up for a third jab. I would have done, except I don't meet the healthiness condition!
Notwithstanding the lack of concrete information, I do hope they are taking an autumn booster campaign seriously. There's something in the reporting that makes me nervous about that: perhaps the vagueness with which it is mentioned.
--AS
I think the trial started about two months ago, my dad tried to get in but he didn't have his second dose early enough.
I am increasing suspecting that the latest data is showing lower vaccine efficiency hence the nightclub rules and you just can't get away with having an infected unvaccinated person in a big crowd without infecting a reason number of even vaccinated people.
It's rampant in my village and it seemingly makes no difference whether or not you are double jabbed, although the latter have a significantly lesser illness. That said, Sir Patrick Vallance said before that 60% of those admitted to hospital have been fully vaccinated.
Did he say that, I missed that.... are you sure he said fully vaccinated rather than partially vaccinated? Because that's a massive shift, a week or so ago, we were looking at more like 85-90% were not fully vaccinated, same with cases.
That's really bad news. We aren't talking about refuseniks filling up beds.
That seem out of whack with the information.last week, zoe app and what Dr Foxy said yesterday.
I thought he said 16% not 60%. 16% matches up with the 12% from earlier last month and the 15% figure we got a few days ago.
Yes, I hope it's 16%. 60% would be truly alarming.
--AS
If it’s 60% (especially if linked to one or other of the vaccines specifically) then surely they need to be forgetting about jabbing the young and get the booster programmes going now?
We can easily do both. AZ as the booster jab for 50+ could roll out within a couple of weeks numbering in the many millions per week if necessary. We have got loads of it sitting in fridges.
You don't want to do a third AZ shot to people who've had two already, as the immune system is as likely to focus on the wrong things.
In fact, we probably should be doing AZ+mRNA for the young, and mRNA boosters for the older folk.
So 2 jabs needed for nightclub entry from September, glad to see the PM was reading my posts earlier
And a pub. And a football ground, probably, theatre. Anywhere crowded probably. because the PM refused to rule it out.
Medical apartheid. Checkpoint Charlie Britain.
Get jabbed and then you can be free, if not then you will face quarantine for foreign travel and refusal of entry to nightclubs and other large events. Your choice
No. I have a third choice. I have the choice to fund and vote for a party that will restore my liberty and chuck authoritarian scum like you out of office.
I am not Hyufd’s No. 1 fan on this site.
But on this, he’s bang on and you’re completely wrong.
There is no party that will ‘restore your liberty’ without your being vaccinated. That is the simple tradeoff they have to make to avoid a major social collapse.
Therefore, if you want to end lockdowns, get jabbed.
If you don’t want get jabbed, stop whining about lockdowns.
Your choice.
But could you please spare the rest of us your hypocrisy?
The social collapse and economic collapse is coming anyway, courtesy of a government that cannot pay its way because of its own catastrophic policy decisions.
The USA seems to have retained freedom of speech on the pros and cons of the COVID vaccines more effectively than most of Europe, hence one read material like this ... months ago ...
In other words, in 2020-21 the humans are the lab rats.
Lockdown is a disaster and the vaccines are not preventing infections, although they are claimed to reduce the severity. Read the small print you were given before you were jabbed.
Oh, what's that, you weren't given any small print, or you got it after the jab ...? Medical ethics used to require patients to give prior informed consent to any treatment, especially if it carried risks.
Luckily, the number of repurposed generic drugs for COVID is steadily lengthening and they're widely used in developing countries. Some have had less than 10 deaths in 40 years. You'd have to be mad to accept jabs with a roughly 1:30,000 mortality risk.
I don't have time to list all the 100s of URLs but I'm sure if you get COVID despite being jabbed you could get a private 15 min. consultation with Dr T Lawrie, Dr P Kory or Dr P McCullough. Dr Kory is prescribing some of the available drugs to vaccine-injured patients. I'd rather people just studied the evidence and went for the safe cheap treatment in the first place ... if they need it.
I was given about 4 pages of stuff when I was jabbed. You're nuts, best of luck without vaccination against delta 👌👋👋👋
I've got a supply of the cheap generic drugs used by doctors with a conscience ... bought from developing countries where they're saving lives compared. The UK policy, slavishly followed by many doctors who value a quite life, seems to consist of waiting for people to get serious or critical (and sometimes die when they could have been saved) if treated earlier.
Don't call me a nutter, read some serious scientific papers. I'm all for following the evidence and for being sceptical about people whose lucrative career depends on not following real evidence.
See, e.g. www.hartgroup.org if you want a list of some experts who aren't bought by government or industry.
Further, the many people who caught COVID in March/April 2020 should not be vaccinated. Based on the testing on people who were exposed to SARS-CoV-1, they are likely to be immune for many years, possibly life.
Over and out.
Cite the serious scientific papers. What is difficult about that?
Their lack of existence might perhaps be a small barrier.
I see the stock market has collapsed. Could Boris Johnson's being recognised as being iredeemably crap have anything to do with it? Losing the Tory lead while he's in charge sounds like free money
Damn, the FTSE 100 is only up 13% in the year. Its a disaster. I blame Brexit of course.
Presumably, with inflation and interest rates on the rise, there will be alternatives for investors to equities and they may start not looking the one-way street they've been for the last decade or more.
I am increasing suspecting that the latest data is showing lower vaccine efficiency hence the nightclub rules and you just can't get away with having an infected unvaccinated person in a big crowd without infecting a reason number of even vaccinated people.
It's rampant in my village and it seemingly makes no difference whether or not you are double jabbed, although the latter have a significantly lesser illness. That said, Sir Patrick Vallance said before that 60% of those admitted to hospital have been fully vaccinated.
Did he say that, I missed that.... are you sure he said fully vaccinated rather than partially vaccinated? Because that's a massive shift, a week or so ago, we were looking at more like 85-90% were not fully vaccinated, same with cases.
That's really bad news. We aren't talking about refuseniks filling up beds.
That seem out of whack with the information.last week, zoe app and what Dr Foxy said yesterday.
I thought he said 16% not 60%. 16% matches up with the 12% from earlier last month and the 15% figure we got a few days ago.
Yes, I hope it's 16%. 60% would be truly alarming.
--AS
If it’s 60% (especially if linked to one or other of the vaccines specifically) then surely they need to be forgetting about jabbing the young and get the booster programmes going now?
We can easily do both. AZ as the booster jab for 50+ could roll out within a couple of weeks numbering in the many millions per week if necessary. We have got loads of it sitting in fridges.
You don't want to do a third AZ shot to people who've had two already, as the immune system is as likely to focus on the wrong things.
In fact, we probably should be doing AZ+mRNA for the young, and mRNA boosters for the older folk.
Nah, they've tested a third AZ dose for AZ patients and it produced a very strong antibody response, there was no sign of vector immunity so a third AZ is good to go for them.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
If you, HYUFD and authoritarianism are the future of the party then count me and my vote out. 👎
I missed the news conference. Is it just the nightclub passport scheme or was there anything else?
The netflix shows and spotify podcast not enough money....
The Duke of Sussex, 36, has been secretly working on the book for nearly a year which he has since sold to Penguin Random House. Prince Harry has been working with Pulitzer-winning ghostwriter J. R. Moehringer in what is the first time a senior royal has ever written such a book.
unfortunately the book will be a best seller , which means the Duchess will not get her heartfelt wish to be left alone . I feel for her I really do - can book publishers not bully Meghan into writing a book when she clearly just wants to be left alone
The netflix shows and spotify podcast not enough money....
The Duke of Sussex, 36, has been secretly working on the book for nearly a year which he has since sold to Penguin Random House. Prince Harry has been working with Pulitzer-winning ghostwriter J. R. Moehringer in what is the first time a senior royal has ever written such a book.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
If you, HYUFD and authoritarianism are the future of the party then count me and my vote out. 👎
I missed the news conference. Is it just the nightclub passport scheme or was there anything else?
All events with large crowds will require attendees to have Covid vaccine passports from September, an excellent decision from the PM
I see the stock market has collapsed. Could Boris Johnson's being recognised as being iredeemably crap have anything to do with it? Losing the Tory lead while he's in charge sounds like free money
Damn, the FTSE 100 is only up 13% in the year. Its a disaster. I blame Brexit of course.
Presumably, with inflation and interest rates on the rise, there will be alternatives for investors to equities and they may start not looking the one-way street they've been for the last decade or more.
The Met Office has issued its first ever extreme heat warning for the UK with temperatures possibly reaching 33C in western areas.
The amber warning is in place for much of Wales, all of south-west England and parts of southern and central England.
It also warned of increasing water safety concerns as six people died in incidents over the weekend.
“Many areas will continue to reach heatwave thresholds but the amber extreme heat warning focuses on western areas, where the most unusually high temperatures are likely to persist,” said the Met Office’s chief operational meteorologist, Steven Ramsdale.
Earlier in the Commons MPs were joking about the campaigners at Westminster today who were protesting about the lockdown that is no longer in place. In the light of this press conference, perhaps the lockdown alarmism of the fanatics outside parliament might appear slightly less hysterical. Because this was the most downbeat press conference Boris Johnson has hosted, at least since he postponed the move to step 4 of the roadmap, and probably for much longer.
At least when the government postponed step 4 of lockdown easing in England for four weeks, Johnson was reasonably confident of the process being irreversible. Now he is actively planning to curtail a freedom that only became available to clubbers 18 hours ago. He is proposing not just mandatory Covid status certification, something previously ruled out, but a form of Covid status certification (only vaccination would count) that was seen as discriminatory when the idea was first discussed in government. Johnson also refused to rule out mandating these Covid passports for a much wider range of venues. (See 5.39pm.) And Prof Jonathan Van-Tam and Sir Patrick Vallance implied that, if cases are not under control by the end of August, the scientists will be calling for other restrictions to be reimposed.
This was not quite the government hitting the panic button. But it did sound like a government nervously fingering the panic button just to be sure it knows where it is.
I'll repeat something I said the other evening: wait and see what the Government does next when hospital admissions exceed 1,000 per day and then keep rising for a week or two afterwards, if that's what happens. I can see Johnson panicking and starting to reimpose restrictions by the middle of next month, never mind the end.
Yep. I am deeply gloomy on where this is headed to be honest.
Does the Scottish fall in cases not giv3 you hope? It does me.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
Yes, currently.
I remember Tony whimsically assuring the PLP that he didn't REALLY wake up every morning trying to think of ways to piss us off...
i am trying to keep a track of shops that are not fussed about masks from internet posts. On Supermarkets anyone who does not want to wear a mask should look to Asda as they seem most relaxed. Morrisons also seem ok Cineworld seem relaxed for cinemas.
I see the stock market has collapsed. Could Boris Johnson's being recognised as being iredeemably crap have anything to do with it? Losing the Tory lead while he's in charge sounds like free money
Damn, the FTSE 100 is only up 13% in the year. Its a disaster. I blame Brexit of course.
I first came to pb.com in 2005. Roger has been predicting the imminent collapse of the Tory vote pretty much ever since then.
I think the Tory vote has gone up at each of the last six General elections.
Earlier in the Commons MPs were joking about the campaigners at Westminster today who were protesting about the lockdown that is no longer in place. In the light of this press conference, perhaps the lockdown alarmism of the fanatics outside parliament might appear slightly less hysterical. Because this was the most downbeat press conference Boris Johnson has hosted, at least since he postponed the move to step 4 of the roadmap, and probably for much longer.
At least when the government postponed step 4 of lockdown easing in England for four weeks, Johnson was reasonably confident of the process being irreversible. Now he is actively planning to curtail a freedom that only became available to clubbers 18 hours ago. He is proposing not just mandatory Covid status certification, something previously ruled out, but a form of Covid status certification (only vaccination would count) that was seen as discriminatory when the idea was first discussed in government. Johnson also refused to rule out mandating these Covid passports for a much wider range of venues. (See 5.39pm.) And Prof Jonathan Van-Tam and Sir Patrick Vallance implied that, if cases are not under control by the end of August, the scientists will be calling for other restrictions to be reimposed.
This was not quite the government hitting the panic button. But it did sound like a government nervously fingering the panic button just to be sure it knows where it is.
I'll repeat something I said the other evening: wait and see what the Government does next when hospital admissions exceed 1,000 per day and then keep rising for a week or two afterwards, if that's what happens. I can see Johnson panicking and starting to reimpose restrictions by the middle of next month, never mind the end.
Yep. I am deeply gloomy on where this is headed to be honest.
Does the Scottish fall in cases not giv3 you hope? It does me.
The figures from Scotland are encouraging, but if the cases - and, more critically, the hospital admissions - don't moderate quickly enough in England, then there has to be a significant material risk that the Prime Minister will wet his pants and pull the lockdown lever. He's not exactly noted for consistency of approach and willingness to stick to any given policy for more than five minutes, after all.
I'm just not clear what is going on. We've been told that vaccines work. Not that they give you 100% immunity but that they reduce the chances of getting the disease and, if you get it, of your symptoms.
Now apparently they don't because so many double jabbed people are ending up back in hospital.
Or have I misunderstood?
And as for vax passports, since double vaccination does not stop you getting it (see one Savid Javid), what is the point of requiring proof of a double jab and how effective is it going to be unless you can prove that the person waving the card saying I've had a double dose is in fact the person named on the card ie an ID card?
For instance, my vaccination is in my married name - the name I'm registered with at my GP's. But I do not have any other ID in my married name - no passport or driving licence or anything else. So how reliable is such proof going to be?
The critical question for me is this: if restrictions on businesses are reimposed, will financial support also be given again?
Another absolutely SUPERB tip by Mike Smithson. For goodness sake take it. It will make a wonderful hat-trick: Chesham & Amersham, Batley & Spen, Labour poll lead.
Remember, they got to within 5% at the height of Euro football euphoria and before the latest utter shitshow. Or, rather, series of shitshows.
The Met Office has issued its first ever extreme heat warning for the UK with temperatures possibly reaching 33C in western areas.
The amber warning is in place for much of Wales, all of south-west England and parts of southern and central England.
It also warned of increasing water safety concerns as six people died in incidents over the weekend.
“Many areas will continue to reach heatwave thresholds but the amber extreme heat warning focuses on western areas, where the most unusually high temperatures are likely to persist,” said the Met Office’s chief operational meteorologist, Steven Ramsdale.
Earlier in the Commons MPs were joking about the campaigners at Westminster today who were protesting about the lockdown that is no longer in place. In the light of this press conference, perhaps the lockdown alarmism of the fanatics outside parliament might appear slightly less hysterical. Because this was the most downbeat press conference Boris Johnson has hosted, at least since he postponed the move to step 4 of the roadmap, and probably for much longer.
At least when the government postponed step 4 of lockdown easing in England for four weeks, Johnson was reasonably confident of the process being irreversible. Now he is actively planning to curtail a freedom that only became available to clubbers 18 hours ago. He is proposing not just mandatory Covid status certification, something previously ruled out, but a form of Covid status certification (only vaccination would count) that was seen as discriminatory when the idea was first discussed in government. Johnson also refused to rule out mandating these Covid passports for a much wider range of venues. (See 5.39pm.) And Prof Jonathan Van-Tam and Sir Patrick Vallance implied that, if cases are not under control by the end of August, the scientists will be calling for other restrictions to be reimposed.
This was not quite the government hitting the panic button. But it did sound like a government nervously fingering the panic button just to be sure it knows where it is.
I'll repeat something I said the other evening: wait and see what the Government does next when hospital admissions exceed 1,000 per day and then keep rising for a week or two afterwards, if that's what happens. I can see Johnson panicking and starting to reimpose restrictions by the middle of next month, never mind the end.
Yep. I am deeply gloomy on where this is headed to be honest.
Does the Scottish fall in cases not giv3 you hope? It does me.
Yes and no. We've got unrestricted indoor socialising and clubs open now which probably just replaces schools as a vector. I think we'll end up at about 100k or so cases as the peak before it starts falling because the virus eventually runs out of viable hosts and we'll be getting to that level by then both from vaccines and infection.
Aren't we back to the March 2020 policy, with what Van Tam has said today?
🚨| NEW Jonathan Van-Tam advises Brits to try to avoid the "Three Cs", where COVID is most likely to spread:
1. Closed settings (with low ventilation) 2. Crowded settings (with many people around) 3. Close-contact settings (especially with strangers)
This will damage places like pubs just at the moment the government is withdrawing financial support.
Do these vaccines bloody work or not? If they don't why are restrictions being lifted? If they do, why this nonsense?
I can see Daughter's business being damaged all over again ... just when she was beginning to see a way out of the last year's nightmare. Grrr .....
I feel for your daughter, I really do. But if the double vaccinated are 60% of the people who are so sick that they require hospitalisation we are so far beyond fucked the hospitality industry is the least of our problems.
We're sixteen months into this shit and the vaccines are pretty much rolled out now. We need to find a way to live with this.
The virus is going to spread, some people are going to die, some businesses are going to fail. Its absolutely shit but there's no alternative.
If people want to go to bars and restaurants, if people want to go clubbing, then they should. If people want to hide away from crowded, close-contact closed settings then that's their choice too.
We need the freedom to choose and take responsibility for our own lives. Life must go on.
Well yes, except that our choices have consequences for others when we turn up at casualty and expect treatment ahead of those who have already had their elective treatment deferred.
The way I see this is that those who are double vaxxed are unlikely to get seriously ill or die. Some will require hospitalisation but it is likely to be relatively brief with a favourable outcome.
Those who choose not to be vaxxed are much, much more at risk. Roughly 20x as much. If they are young and healthy that means their risk is still not massive but it is significantly more than it would be with vaccinations. It is in our interests to persuade these muppets to get vaccinated. If they don't hell mend them. They can take the risk in dying. Having given them the choice we need to get on with our lives. But because they will turn up in casualty in disproportionate numbers it is in our interests to do what we can persuade them to stop being so stupid.
That should be the thrust of government policy in my opinion.
Just read the sodding evidence, including the ONS moving average age-adjusted deaths per 100,000.
The figure is broadly level since 2010, with some variation year to year, e.g. 2018-19 (years are June to May) was a very low winter for respiratory deaths, 2019-20 and 2020-21 were higher than average, largely balancing out.
But never let the facts get in the way of a narrative which sells more vaccines and suppresses 25-50 p pills based on safe 40 year old drugs.
It's trebles all round for pharma boards and shareholders. One wonders how much extra as a result will enter the bank accounts of Whitty, Vallance and van Tam, not to mention certain ministers or ex-ministers.
Meanwhile, the price of ivermectin has quintupled, despite the only paper that really supports it turning out to be so dodgy that it’s not only been withdrawn, but also “the Egyptian Minister of Higher Education has launched an investigation into the Elgazzar et al ivermectin study which was recently withdrawn after numerous serious questions were raised about it.”
I wonder who are the ones peddling snake oil for money?
Ask Dr T Lawrie who studies evidence-based medicine for a living. Around 50-60 trials have been carried out. You may be a bit behind the times. There are also other generic drugs incl HCQ, fluvoxamine and doctors have been recommending combinations of them for best results.
Always follow the money. Medicine is so corrupted that the 2020 'Recovery' trial was apparently designed to fail and to discredit HCQ. Worse, in the process some COVID patients died who should have lived - aka manslaughter.
It was alleged that 60% of SAGE have conflicts of interest. It was alleged at the time of Whitty/van Tam/Vallance joining the govt that pharma influence was becoming too great. Will these alleged conflicts ever be investigated? No, it's a cesspit/swamp.
In the USA, where matters are slightly clearer thanks to the degree of FoI legislation, observers consider that the CDC, NIH and FDA are in a state of 'regulatory capture'. Translation: they mostly do what the companies they 'regulate' ask them to do.
Macron's French government meanwhile to require mandatory Covid vaccination passports to go to restaurants, bars, shopping centres and travel on long distance trains
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
Yes, currently.
I remember Tony whimsically assuring the PLP that he didn't REALLY wake up every morning trying to think of ways to piss us off...
You have the great quality as to not be pissed off Dr P. I'd love to know what tipped the scales.
I'm just not clear what is going on. We've been told that vaccines work. Not that they give you 100% immunity but that they reduce the chances of getting the disease and, if you get it, of your symptoms.
Now apparently they don't because so many double jabbed people are ending up back in hospital.
Or have I misunderstood?
And as for vax passports, since double vaccination does not stop you getting it (see one Savid Javid), what is the point of requiring proof of a double jab and how effective is it going to be unless you can prove that the person waving the card saying I've had a double dose is in fact the person named on the card ie an ID card?
For instance, my vaccination is in my married name - the name I'm registered with at my GP's. But I do not have any other ID in my married name - no passport or driving licence or anything else. So how reliable is such proof going to be?
The critical question for me is this: if restrictions on businesses are reimposed, will financial support also be given again?
What businesses like your daughter's should do en masse if say "if you want them checked then the government can supply two people to stand on the door and check them every night". If all pubs did it they would soon decide they aren't needed.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
If you, HYUFD and authoritarianism are the future of the party then count me and my vote out. 👎
I missed the news conference. Is it just the nightclub passport scheme or was there anything else?
All events with large crowds will require attendees to have Covid vaccine passports from September, an excellent decision from the PM
It's not 'excellent' and it's certainly not a 'decision.' It's yet another U-turn which has pissed off just about everybody under the age of 30 and in the industry.
This is utter chaos. A total shambles. Even your beloved right-wing commentators are speechless. Go and look.
I'm just not clear what is going on. We've been told that vaccines work. Not that they give you 100% immunity but that they reduce the chances of getting the disease and, if you get it, of your symptoms.
Now apparently they don't because so many double jabbed people are ending up back in hospital.
Or have I misunderstood?
And as for vax passports, since double vaccination does not stop you getting it (see one Savid Javid), what is the point of requiring proof of a double jab and how effective is it going to be unless you can prove that the person waving the card saying I've had a double dose is in fact the person named on the card ie an ID card?
For instance, my vaccination is in my married name - the name I'm registered with at my GP's. But I do not have any other ID in my married name - no passport or driving licence or anything else. So how reliable is such proof going to be?
The critical question for me is this: if restrictions on businesses are reimposed, will financial support also be given again?
Because delta is so much worse than what was on offer before.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
If you, HYUFD and authoritarianism are the future of the party then count me and my vote out. 👎
I missed the news conference. Is it just the nightclub passport scheme or was there anything else?
All events with large crowds will require attendees to have Covid vaccine passports from September, an excellent decision from the PM
And once set up he didn’t rule out extending it, despite a pointed question to rule out having it applied to pubs that he didn’t answer with a straightforward no. What’s brilliant from the authoritarian point of view, we say it’s just for the young in their super spreading clubs, but once you’ve got it working you can extend this control wherever we need it, all crowded indoor places this winter, pubs, bars, gyms, so many indoor superspreader places no different than nite clubs. We will really be able to get to grips controlling the spread of virus with this.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
I see the stock market has collapsed. Could Boris Johnson's being recognised as being iredeemably crap have anything to do with it? Losing the Tory lead while he's in charge sounds like free money
Damn, the FTSE 100 is only up 13% in the year. Its a disaster. I blame Brexit of course.
Presumably, with inflation and interest rates on the rise, there will be alternatives for investors to equities and they may start not looking the one-way street they've been for the last decade or more.
Inflation makes equities a better bet. Interest rate rises will destroy the value of loads of outstanding bonds so once we start down that road it will be like trying to catch a falling knife piling back in.
Aren't we back to the March 2020 policy, with what Van Tam has said today?
🚨| NEW Jonathan Van-Tam advises Brits to try to avoid the "Three Cs", where COVID is most likely to spread:
1. Closed settings (with low ventilation) 2. Crowded settings (with many people around) 3. Close-contact settings (especially with strangers)
This will damage places like pubs just at the moment the government is withdrawing financial support.
Do these vaccines bloody work or not? If they don't why are restrictions being lifted? If they do, why this nonsense?
I can see Daughter's business being damaged all over again ... just when she was beginning to see a way out of the last year's nightmare. Grrr .....
I feel for your daughter, I really do. But if the double vaccinated are 60% of the people who are so sick that they require hospitalisation we are so far beyond fucked the hospitality industry is the least of our problems.
We're sixteen months into this shit and the vaccines are pretty much rolled out now. We need to find a way to live with this.
The virus is going to spread, some people are going to die, some businesses are going to fail. Its absolutely shit but there's no alternative.
If people want to go to bars and restaurants, if people want to go clubbing, then they should. If people want to hide away from crowded, close-contact closed settings then that's their choice too.
We need the freedom to choose and take responsibility for our own lives. Life must go on.
Well yes, except that our choices have consequences for others when we turn up at casualty and expect treatment ahead of those who have already had their elective treatment deferred.
The way I see this is that those who are double vaxxed are unlikely to get seriously ill or die. Some will require hospitalisation but it is likely to be relatively brief with a favourable outcome.
Those who choose not to be vaxxed are much, much more at risk. Roughly 20x as much. If they are young and healthy that means their risk is still not massive but it is significantly more than it would be with vaccinations. It is in our interests to persuade these muppets to get vaccinated. If they don't hell mend them. They can take the risk in dying. Having given them the choice we need to get on with our lives. But because they will turn up in casualty in disproportionate numbers it is in our interests to do what we can persuade them to stop being so stupid.
That should be the thrust of government policy in my opinion.
Just read the sodding evidence, including the ONS moving average age-adjusted deaths per 100,000.
The figure is broadly level since 2010, with some variation year to year, e.g. 2018-19 (years are June to May) was a very low winter for respiratory deaths, 2019-20 and 2020-21 were higher than average, largely balancing out.
But never let the facts get in the way of a narrative which sells more vaccines and suppresses 25-50 p pills based on safe 40 year old drugs.
It's trebles all round for pharma boards and shareholders. One wonders how much extra as a result will enter the bank accounts of Whitty, Vallance and van Tam, not to mention certain ministers or ex-ministers.
Meanwhile, the price of ivermectin has quintupled, despite the only paper that really supports it turning out to be so dodgy that it’s not only been withdrawn, but also “the Egyptian Minister of Higher Education has launched an investigation into the Elgazzar et al ivermectin study which was recently withdrawn after numerous serious questions were raised about it.”
I wonder who are the ones peddling snake oil for money?
Ask Dr T Lawrie who studies evidence-based medicine for a living. Around 50-60 trials have been carried out. You may be a bit behind the times. There are also other generic drugs incl HCQ, fluvoxamine and doctors have been recommending combinations of them for best results.
Always follow the money. Medicine is so corrupted that the 2020 'Recovery' trial was apparently designed to fail and to discredit HCQ. Worse, in the process some COVID patients died who should have lived - aka manslaughter.
It was alleged that 60% of SAGE have conflicts of interest. It was alleged at the time of Whitty/van Tam/Vallance joining the govt that pharma influence was becoming too great. Will these alleged conflicts ever be investigated? No, it's a cesspit/swamp.
In the USA, where matters are slightly clearer thanks to the degree of FoI legislation, observers consider that the CDC, NIH and FDA are in a state of 'regulatory capture'. Translation: they mostly do what the companies they 'regulate' ask them to do.
We need a revolution. With a lot of unnecessary and way over the top violence thrown in for good measure.
I missed the news conference. What happened?
Another Johnson U-turn. He is like the fucking Magic Roundabout.
Richard, if you come on this evening are reading this, the banned Sean Thomas is now posting impersonating you.
Chopping the head off Sean is pointless given the number that he has at his disposal.
You can’t hydra him.
75% of PB posters agree. No doubt the fact that 87% of all PB identities are SeanT, and only 90% are drunk at any one time is a factor that one should consider.
I'm just not clear what is going on. We've been told that vaccines work. Not that they give you 100% immunity but that they reduce the chances of getting the disease and, if you get it, of your symptoms.
Now apparently they don't because so many double jabbed people are ending up back in hospital.
Or have I misunderstood?
And as for vax passports, since double vaccination does not stop you getting it (see one Savid Javid), what is the point of requiring proof of a double jab and how effective is it going to be unless you can prove that the person waving the card saying I've had a double dose is in fact the person named on the card ie an ID card?
For instance, my vaccination is in my married name - the name I'm registered with at my GP's. But I do not have any other ID in my married name - no passport or driving licence or anything else. So how reliable is such proof going to be?
The critical question for me is this: if restrictions on businesses are reimposed, will financial support also be given again?
1. Vaccines do work very well. Better than we would have thought a year ago, perhaps not quite as well as we would have thought four months ago, but still very well.
2. Vax passports seem to me to be primarily a manipulative way to drive up vaccinations in the young, as testing is surely better for the purpose of preventing future infection at a venue. Its a tough moral question if that is justified or not, but that is likely to be the main reason behind them as far as I can see.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
If you, HYUFD and authoritarianism are the future of the party then count me and my vote out. 👎
I missed the news conference. Is it just the nightclub passport scheme or was there anything else?
And if you think Test and trace and isolate all going away in August, Johnson made clear testing will continue. None of the media were smart enough to pin him down on pinging.
I'm just not clear what is going on. We've been told that vaccines work. Not that they give you 100% immunity but that they reduce the chances of getting the disease and, if you get it, of your symptoms.
Now apparently they don't because so many double jabbed people are ending up back in hospital.
Or have I misunderstood?
And as for vax passports, since double vaccination does not stop you getting it (see one Savid Javid), what is the point of requiring proof of a double jab and how effective is it going to be unless you can prove that the person waving the card saying I've had a double dose is in fact the person named on the card ie an ID card?
For instance, my vaccination is in my married name - the name I'm registered with at my GP's. But I do not have any other ID in my married name - no passport or driving licence or anything else. So how reliable is such proof going to be?
The critical question for me is this: if restrictions on businesses are reimposed, will financial support also be given again?
Surely the key point is that the proportion of anti-vaxxers ending up in hospital is about a third higher than that of double jabbed and that hospitalisations per case have dropped off a cliff so we’re talking lower gross numbers anyway?
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
If you, HYUFD and authoritarianism are the future of the party then count me and my vote out. 👎
I missed the news conference. Is it just the nightclub passport scheme or was there anything else?
All events with large crowds will require attendees to have Covid vaccine passports from September, an excellent decision from the PM
It's not 'excellent' and it's certainly not a 'decision.' It's yet another U-turn which has pissed off just about everybody under the age of 30 and in the industry.
This is utter chaos. A total shambles. Even your beloved right-wing commentators are speechless. Go and look.
Wrong, even 18 to 24s back mandatory vaccine passports 48% to 40%, as do 58% overall.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
The underlying structure of every classic farce;
Act 1: Central character promises contradictory things to different groups of people, without them knowing.
Act 2: The central character keeps trying to keep the various groups happy in increasingly manic ways before finally collapsing.
Remember- there are two types of people in the world. Those B Johnson Esq has betrayed and those B Johnson Esq will betray. I wonder which category B Johnson Esq is in?
I'm just not clear what is going on. We've been told that vaccines work. Not that they give you 100% immunity but that they reduce the chances of getting the disease and, if you get it, of your symptoms.
Now apparently they don't because so many double jabbed people are ending up back in hospital.
Or have I misunderstood?
And as for vax passports, since double vaccination does not stop you getting it (see one Savid Javid), what is the point of requiring proof of a double jab and how effective is it going to be unless you can prove that the person waving the card saying I've had a double dose is in fact the person named on the card ie an ID card?
For instance, my vaccination is in my married name - the name I'm registered with at my GP's. But I do not have any other ID in my married name - no passport or driving licence or anything else. So how reliable is such proof going to be?
The critical question for me is this: if restrictions on businesses are reimposed, will financial support also be given again?
The issue with double jabbed getting to hospital relates to the differential risk associated with getting old. You can both have a much reduced risk, compared to unvaccinated people of your age, and still be much more vulnerable compared to a much younger person. The real place to look is how much reduced the hospital admissions and deaths are compared to previous waves. Sadly, we are all getting a lesson in what vaccine efficacy means, and it’s not what most people assumed. I think almost everyone used to think vaccinated means can’t get it. Sadly, not true (and never was).
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
If you, HYUFD and authoritarianism are the future of the party then count me and my vote out. 👎
I missed the news conference. Is it just the nightclub passport scheme or was there anything else?
All events with large crowds will require attendees to have Covid vaccine passports from September, an excellent decision from the PM
You do realise that you could simply get a QR code belonging to someone else and store it on your phone? Or get someone else to take the vaccine for you. At Wembley the whole process collapsed. The system is not fit for that purpose. It is just theatre.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
If you, HYUFD and authoritarianism are the future of the party then count me and my vote out. 👎
I missed the news conference. Is it just the nightclub passport scheme or was there anything else?
And if you think Test and trace and isolate all going away in August, Johnson made clear testing will continue. None of the media were smart enough to pin him down on pinging.
Surely almost everyone has deleted the app by now?
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
The underlying structure of every classic farce;
Act 1: Central character promises contradictory things to different groups of people, without them knowing.
Act 2: The central character keeps trying to keep the various groups happy in increasingly manic ways before finally collapsing.
Remember- there are two types of people in the world. Those B Johnson Esq has betrayed and those B Johnson Esq will betray. I wonder which category B Johnson Esq is in?
I see the stock market has collapsed. Could Boris Johnson's being recognised as being iredeemably crap have anything to do with it? Losing the Tory lead while he's in charge sounds like free money
Damn, the FTSE 100 is only up 13% in the year. Its a disaster. I blame Brexit of course.
Presumably, with inflation and interest rates on the rise, there will be alternatives for investors to equities and they may start not looking the one-way street they've been for the last decade or more.
Inflation makes equities a better bet. Interest rate rises will destroy the value of loads of outstanding bonds so once we start down that road it will be like trying to catch a falling knife piling back in.
Only very generally and in the very long term. See 1973-4.
Side note: with the highly justified talk of schools closing bringing cases down I am reminded of the (at time extremely heated) discussion on here about how children couldn't get Covid (or at the very least couldn't transmit it).
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
If you, HYUFD and authoritarianism are the future of the party then count me and my vote out. 👎
I missed the news conference. Is it just the nightclub passport scheme or was there anything else?
All events with large crowds will require attendees to have Covid vaccine passports from September, an excellent decision from the PM
You do realise that you could simply get a QR code belonging to someone else and store it on your phone? Or get someone else to take the vaccine for you. At Wembley the whole process collapsed. The system is not fit for that purpose. It is just theatre.
Which all costs and takes effort and there are ways to counter forgery, the key thing is it is sending a clear message if you are unjabbed do not expect full freedom as a result
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
The underlying structure of every classic farce;
Act 1: Central character promises contradictory things to different groups of people, without them knowing.
Act 2: The central character keeps trying to keep the various groups happy in increasingly manic ways before finally collapsing.
Remember- there are two types of people in the world. Those B Johnson Esq has betrayed and those B Johnson Esq will betray. I wonder which category B Johnson Esq is in?
More interestingly - will he end up suffering the fate of Volpone?
Aren't we back to the March 2020 policy, with what Van Tam has said today?
🚨| NEW Jonathan Van-Tam advises Brits to try to avoid the "Three Cs", where COVID is most likely to spread:
1. Closed settings (with low ventilation) 2. Crowded settings (with many people around) 3. Close-contact settings (especially with strangers)
This will damage places like pubs just at the moment the government is withdrawing financial support.
Do these vaccines bloody work or not? If they don't why are restrictions being lifted? If they do, why this nonsense?
I can see Daughter's business being damaged all over again ... just when she was beginning to see a way out of the last year's nightmare. Grrr .....
I feel for your daughter, I really do. But if the double vaccinated are 60% of the people who are so sick that they require hospitalisation we are so far beyond fucked the hospitality industry is the least of our problems.
We're sixteen months into this shit and the vaccines are pretty much rolled out now. We need to find a way to live with this.
The virus is going to spread, some people are going to die, some businesses are going to fail. Its absolutely shit but there's no alternative.
If people want to go to bars and restaurants, if people want to go clubbing, then they should. If people want to hide away from crowded, close-contact closed settings then that's their choice too.
We need the freedom to choose and take responsibility for our own lives. Life must go on.
Well yes, except that our choices have consequences for others when we turn up at casualty and expect treatment ahead of those who have already had their elective treatment deferred.
The way I see this is that those who are double vaxxed are unlikely to get seriously ill or die. Some will require hospitalisation but it is likely to be relatively brief with a favourable outcome.
Those who choose not to be vaxxed are much, much more at risk. Roughly 20x as much. If they are young and healthy that means their risk is still not massive but it is significantly more than it would be with vaccinations. It is in our interests to persuade these muppets to get vaccinated. If they don't hell mend them. They can take the risk in dying. Having given them the choice we need to get on with our lives. But because they will turn up in casualty in disproportionate numbers it is in our interests to do what we can persuade them to stop being so stupid.
That should be the thrust of government policy in my opinion.
Just read the sodding evidence, including the ONS moving average age-adjusted deaths per 100,000.
The figure is broadly level since 2010, with some variation year to year, e.g. 2018-19 (years are June to May) was a very low winter for respiratory deaths, 2019-20 and 2020-21 were higher than average, largely balancing out.
But never let the facts get in the way of a narrative which sells more vaccines and suppresses 25-50 p pills based on safe 40 year old drugs.
It's trebles all round for pharma boards and shareholders. One wonders how much extra as a result will enter the bank accounts of Whitty, Vallance and van Tam, not to mention certain ministers or ex-ministers.
Meanwhile, the price of ivermectin has quintupled, despite the only paper that really supports it turning out to be so dodgy that it’s not only been withdrawn, but also “the Egyptian Minister of Higher Education has launched an investigation into the Elgazzar et al ivermectin study which was recently withdrawn after numerous serious questions were raised about it.”
I wonder who are the ones peddling snake oil for money?
Ask Dr T Lawrie who studies evidence-based medicine for a living. Around 50-60 trials have been carried out. You may be a bit behind the times. There are also other generic drugs incl HCQ, fluvoxamine and doctors have been recommending combinations of them for best results.
Always follow the money. Medicine is so corrupted that the 2020 'Recovery' trial was apparently designed to fail and to discredit HCQ. Worse, in the process some COVID patients died who should have lived - aka manslaughter.
It was alleged that 60% of SAGE have conflicts of interest. It was alleged at the time of Whitty/van Tam/Vallance joining the govt that pharma influence was becoming too great. Will these alleged conflicts ever be investigated? No, it's a cesspit/swamp.
In the USA, where matters are slightly clearer thanks to the degree of FoI legislation, observers consider that the CDC, NIH and FDA are in a state of 'regulatory capture'. Translation: they mostly do what the companies they 'regulate' ask them to do.
I have had some contact with the fda in recent years (part of a project funded by it) and I don’t recognise what you portray. You are so far up the conspiracy scale you probably think JFK is still alive, living on the moon and suppressing Ivor mectin in order to kill millions ahead of the great QAnon reset. There are tens of thousands of scientists that would need to be covering up this. It’s just not plausible.
I see the stock market has collapsed. Could Boris Johnson's being recognised as being iredeemably crap have anything to do with it? Losing the Tory lead while he's in charge sounds like free money
Damn, the FTSE 100 is only up 13% in the year. Its a disaster. I blame Brexit of course.
Presumably, with inflation and interest rates on the rise, there will be alternatives for investors to equities and they may start not looking the one-way street they've been for the last decade or more.
Inflation is generally good for equities, certainly a lot better than it is for gilts or fixed interest. I can see the stock market bubble working for a good while yet. An increase in interest rates will cause a crash at some point but that is probably a while away.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
Boris is going to end up pissing off everyone, isn't he? From antivaxx nutjobs and zero-Covid nutjobs via wishful thinkers (there are an awful lot of those!) and genuine libertarians right through to the sensible.
*****cks! Boris, the most authoritarian PM ever, and HY, the most authoritarian councillor ever, may have just saved the Tory party.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
If you, HYUFD and authoritarianism are the future of the party then count me and my vote out. 👎
I missed the news conference. Is it just the nightclub passport scheme or was there anything else?
All events with large crowds will require attendees to have Covid vaccine passports from September, an excellent decision from the PM
You do realise that you could simply get a QR code belonging to someone else and store it on your phone? Or get someone else to take the vaccine for you. At Wembley the whole process collapsed. The system is not fit for that purpose. It is just theatre.
Which all costs and takes effort and there are ways to counter forgery, the key thing is it is sending a clear message if you are unjabbed do not expect full freedom as a result
Then people will just take back their freedom in acts of civil disobedience simple as that. I am with Richard here. If they implement it we don't take it meekly but put shove a spoke in the wheel as much as possible. Doesn't take that many to withdraw consent and start playing silly buggers to get it crashing down.
Side note: with the highly justified talk of schools closing bringing cases down I am reminded of the (at time extremely heated) discussion on here about how children couldn't get Covid (or at the very least couldn't transmit it).
Great times.
Isn’t there evidence that delta is much more transmissible in children than original Covid?
Side note: with the highly justified talk of schools closing bringing cases down I am reminded of the (at time extremely heated) discussion on here about how children couldn't get Covid (or at the very least couldn't transmit it).
Great times.
Might have something to do with indian variant x1000 viral load.
Comments
But [and I rarely say this] he's right, no mainstream party is going to be purely libertarian on this. We have probably the most libertarian of the three party leaders in Downing Street at the minute but he's not in a position to let the NHS collapse and never will be. Realpolitik gets in the way of principles on this, whether you or I like it or not. Overwhelmingly the biting criticism of the government are from those who find it not enough authoritarian, not those who find it too authoritarian. Tragically.
People like contrarian are increasing the chances of lockdowns. The fewer antivaxxers there are, the less chance of the NHS collapsing and the more liberal the government can be.
Even though personally speaking I'd rather see antivaxxers like contrarian thrown into Nightingale-style hospitals for treatment rather than let them clog up and collapse the NHS.
If it’s: do vaccines reduce risk a long way? Then the answer is yes.
If it’s: do they reduce risk to zero? Then the answer is no.
Does the (very large) amount by which they reduce risk suffice to reduce risk to a low enough level when prevalence is rife? Then the answer is “we’re in the process of finding out”.
For a 60-year old unvaxxed man, the chance of hospitalisation is about 15% and of death about 1.5%. If the vaccines reduce the hospitalisation rate by a factor of ten to twenty, their chance of hospitalisation is between 0.75%-1.5%. So instead of one in six of them ending up in hospital, about one in sixty to one in one hundred and twenty will.
Is that enough?
A forty year old goes from about 5% risk of hospitalisation to 0.25%-0.5%. Is that enough of a reduction?
We do have a lot of vaxxed 60-year-olds; if one in a hundred of them end up in hospital, then much depends on the timescale by which they do. The same for all the other ages.
All in a few weeks in hospital would be overload. Over a longer period: less of an issue.
Personally, I’d advise them to stay cautious until the youngsters have all acquired antibodies in whatever way they prefer.
If they want treatment we'll still give it, but if they're turning down vaccinations and increasing the strain on the NHS as a result they ought to be the ones who carry the strain.
The Duke of Sussex, 36, has been secretly working on the book for nearly a year which he has since sold to Penguin Random House. Prince Harry has been working with Pulitzer-winning ghostwriter J. R. Moehringer in what is the first time a senior royal has ever written such a book.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9803675/Prince-Harry-written-bombshell-Megxit-MEMOIR.html
I wonder who are the ones peddling snake oil for money?
Andrew L. Croxford
@andrew_croxford
Of the arguments put forward for turning down a jab, the most difficult to challenge is ‘there isn’t any long term safety data’. It’s used by anti-vaxxers, but also strikes me as a valid concern for vaccine hesitant people caught up in the Covid-19 info grinder.
https://twitter.com/andrew_croxford/status/1416414041329786881
Should be 23/16 in line two I think.
I have no fundamental objection to principled anti-vaxxers, although I think they’re idiots and I wish they would change their minds. That’s their privilege. I have no objection to people opposed to lockdowns, which after all are to put it mildly less than ideal.
Somebody who claims to be opposed to both is just being a muppet. Doing so in such a self-righteous and arrogant way makes it worse.
He reminds me of the Catholic hierarchy, who oppose contraception and abortion. Well, newsflash guys, in the real world it’s one or the other. And contraception is a lot less damaging.
COVID-19 vaccines have prevented 7.2 million infections and 27,000 deaths
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/covid-19-vaccines-have-prevented-7-2-million-infections-and-27-000-deaths
Don't call me a nutter, read some serious scientific papers. I'm all for following the evidence and for being sceptical about people whose lucrative career depends on not following real evidence.
See, e.g. www.hartgroup.org if you want a list of some experts who aren't bought by government or industry.
Further, the many people who caught COVID in March/April 2020 should not be vaccinated. Based on the testing on people who were exposed to SARS-CoV-1, they are likely to be immune for many years, possibly life.
Over and out.
Fair play to them for coming out and speaking up today. They have my vote sown up. Authoritarian is the way to go, time this dangerous libertarian claptrap was cancelled.
Now would be a good time for a decent size trial (actually a couple of months ago would have been better). I know there is at least one going on somewhere near me, as I saw an advert for double-dosed healthy volunteers to sign up for a third jab. I would have done, except I don't meet the healthiness condition!
Notwithstanding the lack of concrete information, I do hope they are taking an autumn booster campaign seriously. There's something in the reporting that makes me nervous about that: perhaps the vagueness with which it is mentioned.
--AS
Edit to add:
Apologies. I realise that they might not be amoral scumbags who're faking results in return for big money from pharmaceutical companies, but instead they might be amoral scumbags who're faking results because they want to watch their fellow man suffer the ravages of Covid.
There may be a third explanation, but I'm damned if I can think of it. @rural_voter, please help.
In fact, we probably should be doing AZ+mRNA for the young, and mRNA boosters for the older folk.
I missed the news conference. Is it just the nightclub passport scheme or was there anything else?
The amber warning is in place for much of Wales, all of south-west England and parts of southern and central England.
It also warned of increasing water safety concerns as six people died in incidents over the weekend.
“Many areas will continue to reach heatwave thresholds but the amber extreme heat warning focuses on western areas, where the most unusually high temperatures are likely to persist,” said the Met Office’s chief operational meteorologist, Steven Ramsdale.
I think the Tory vote has gone up at each of the last six General elections.
Now apparently they don't because so many double jabbed people are ending up back in hospital.
Or have I misunderstood?
And as for vax passports, since double vaccination does not stop you getting it (see one Savid Javid), what is the point of requiring proof of a double jab and how effective is it going to be unless you can prove that the person waving the card saying I've had a double dose is in fact the person named on the card ie an ID card?
For instance, my vaccination is in my married name - the name I'm registered with at my GP's. But I do not have any other ID in my married name - no passport or driving licence or anything else. So how reliable is such proof going to be?
The critical question for me is this: if restrictions on businesses are reimposed, will financial support also be given again?
Remember, they got to within 5% at the height of Euro football euphoria and before the latest utter shitshow. Or, rather, series of shitshows.
This is a great tip.
Always follow the money. Medicine is so corrupted that the 2020 'Recovery' trial was apparently designed to fail and to discredit HCQ. Worse, in the process some COVID patients died who should have lived - aka manslaughter.
It was alleged that 60% of SAGE have conflicts of interest. It was alleged at the time of Whitty/van Tam/Vallance joining the govt that pharma influence was becoming too great. Will these alleged conflicts ever be investigated? No, it's a cesspit/swamp.
In the USA, where matters are slightly clearer thanks to the degree of FoI legislation, observers consider that the CDC, NIH and FDA are in a state of 'regulatory capture'. Translation: they mostly do what the companies they 'regulate' ask them to do.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/07/19/french-cabinet-adopts-covid-passport-legislation-bars-restaurants/
This is utter chaos. A total shambles. Even your beloved right-wing commentators are speechless. Go and look.
Erm. Think the irony was lost on him
2. Vax passports seem to me to be primarily a manipulative way to drive up vaccinations in the young, as testing is surely better for the purpose of preventing future infection at a venue. Its a tough moral question if that is justified or not, but that is likely to be the main reason behind them as far as I can see.
That’s the effectiveness of vaccines right there.
https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1417173125100449795?s=20
Act 1: Central character promises contradictory things to different groups of people, without them knowing.
Act 2: The central character keeps trying to keep the various groups happy in increasingly manic ways before finally collapsing.
Remember- there are two types of people in the world. Those B Johnson Esq has betrayed and those B Johnson Esq will betray. I wonder which category B Johnson Esq is in?
Sadly, we are all getting a lesson in what vaccine efficacy means, and it’s not what most people assumed. I think almost everyone used to think vaccinated means can’t get it. Sadly, not true (and never was).
UPDATE: LNER reviewing decision to scrap social distancing on all trains running between Scotland and England
https://twitter.com/TheScotsman/status/1417186954106576903?s=20
Meanwhile ScotRail aren't implementing social distancing.....nor are coach or planes...
Great times.
19 July: The station where masks are mandatory - and not
He simply regenerates.