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The more voters are educated the more likely they are to be negative about Johnson – politicalbettin

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited July 15 in General
imageThe more voters are educated the more likely they are to be negative about Johnson – politicalbetting.com

In all British political polling at the moment the regular Ipsos-MORI political monitor stands out because it is just about the only one that still carries out fieldwork by telephone.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 6,790
    Test
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 6,790

    It feels like we do this every few weeks....need to be adjusted to consider age.

    That is a factor but the big expansion of UK higher education was triggered in 1962 following the Robbins report. If you were 18 then you are now 77. I was part of one of the first generations to benefit.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 12,415
    edited July 15
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 8,898

    It feels like we do this every few weeks....need to be adjusted to consider age.

    That is a factor but the big expansion of UK higher education was triggered in 1962 following the Robbins report. If you were 18 then you are now 77. I was part of one of the first generations to benefit.
    In 1990, it was still only 25%. Its basically double that now.
    How much is age a confounding factor for this analysis? If you are taking constituency education levels as a crude indicator of love for Boris, then is age not already factored in? It might be dangerous to combine age and education, in case you are double-counting, of course.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 62,763
    edited July 15
    Andy_JS said:
    The comments are rather mixed to say the least...e.g. FT journalist.

    This is thoroughly unpleasant.
    I've written plenty of stories that have been fiercely critical of the Home Office during Patel's time there but this is an abhorrent image.

    https://twitter.com/RKWinvisibleman/status/1415316610076848130?s=19
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 8,898
    Andy_JS said:
    Unfortunate imagery, as detailed in the pile-on, though I can't help wondering how many of those cancelling their subscriptions had subscriptions to cancel.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 62,763
    edited July 15
    BBC News - National Food Strategy: Prescribe vegetables, tax sugar and salt, says report
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

    I think this is going to go down like a lead ballon outside those who aren't big fans of Boris government. Adding a £200-300 to families food bills is a rather tricky sell to say the least, especially among the current Tory Red Wall supporters.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 12,415

    BBC News - National Food Strategy: Prescribe vegetables, tax sugar and salt, says report
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

    I think this is going to go down like a lead ballon outside those who aren't big fans of Boris government. Adding a £200-300 to families food bills.

    The experts know best.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 8,898

    BBC News - National Food Strategy: Prescribe vegetables, tax sugar and salt, says report
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

    I think this is going to go down like a lead ballon outside those who aren't big fans of Boris government. Adding a £200-300 to families food bills.

    Is that carelessly worded or are you saying Boris's sugar and salt taxes will be hated by Boris-supporters? If the latter, you may be right, but surely it implies they will not be introduced.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 62,763
    edited July 15
    Andy_JS said:

    BBC News - National Food Strategy: Prescribe vegetables, tax sugar and salt, says report
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

    I think this is going to go down like a lead ballon outside those who aren't big fans of Boris government. Adding a £200-300 to families food bills.

    The experts know best.
    Media stories today are extra taxes on food and travel....Blair got in a whole heap of trouble with fuel duty.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 62,763
    edited July 15

    BBC News - National Food Strategy: Prescribe vegetables, tax sugar and salt, says report
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

    I think this is going to go down like a lead ballon outside those who aren't big fans of Boris government. Adding a £200-300 to families food bills.

    Is that carelessly worded or are you saying Boris's sugar and salt taxes will be hated by Boris-supporters? If the latter, you may be right, but surely it implies they will not be introduced.
    Sorry...been working too many hours straight.

    I am saying those that will probably like this policy, don't like Boris and no intention of ever voting for him. Where as his current support base, e.g. the likes of your white working class, inspires to have a middle class lifestyle, types, isn't going to like the sound of £200 extra on his food bill nor the nanny stating.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 8,898

    BBC News - National Food Strategy: Prescribe vegetables, tax sugar and salt, says report
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

    I think this is going to go down like a lead ballon outside those who aren't big fans of Boris government. Adding a £200-300 to families food bills.

    Is that carelessly worded or are you saying Boris's sugar and salt taxes will be hated by Boris-supporters? If the latter, you may be right, but surely it implies they will not be introduced.
    Sorry...been working too many hours straight.

    I am saying those that will probably like this policy, don't like Boris and no intention of ever voting for him. Where as his current support base, e.g. the likes of your white working class, inspires to have a middle class lifestyle, types, isn't going to like the sound of £200 extra on his food bill nor the nanny stating.
    Cool. In that case, it probably won't happen.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 38,885

    It feels like we do this every few weeks....need to be adjusted to consider age.

    That is a factor but the big expansion of UK higher education was triggered in 1962 following the Robbins report. If you were 18 then you are now 77. I was part of one of the first generations to benefit.
    In 1980, it with still just 15%, 1990, it was only 25%. Its basically double that now.

    Without adjusting for this, simplistic degree / no degree is strongly a proxy for age.
    It would be good to see it age normalized, because I suspect there's some truth in it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 62,763
    edited July 15

    BBC News - National Food Strategy: Prescribe vegetables, tax sugar and salt, says report
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

    I think this is going to go down like a lead ballon outside those who aren't big fans of Boris government. Adding a £200-300 to families food bills.

    Is that carelessly worded or are you saying Boris's sugar and salt taxes will be hated by Boris-supporters? If the latter, you may be right, but surely it implies they will not be introduced.
    Sorry...been working too many hours straight.

    I am saying those that will probably like this policy, don't like Boris and no intention of ever voting for him. Where as his current support base, e.g. the likes of your white working class, inspires to have a middle class lifestyle, types, isn't going to like the sound of £200 extra on his food bill nor the nanny stating.
    Cool. In that case, it probably won't happen.
    You would think so, but the current government seem to make lots of irrational and often counterproductive decisions (for their own ratings).

    Remember the government are really pushing ahead with the eco stuff, that isn't going to be winning them many red wall voters. Again something that non-Tory voters want e.g. electric vehicles coming in much sooner, but it won't make them vote Tory while Boris is in charge.

    Oldies heavily skew Tory, they are scared of covid, and Boris is saying open everything up, masks they are optional, etc.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 62,763
    edited July 15
    rcs1000 said:

    It feels like we do this every few weeks....need to be adjusted to consider age.

    That is a factor but the big expansion of UK higher education was triggered in 1962 following the Robbins report. If you were 18 then you are now 77. I was part of one of the first generations to benefit.
    In 1980, it with still just 15%, 1990, it was only 25%. Its basically double that now.

    Without adjusting for this, simplistic degree / no degree is strongly a proxy for age.
    It would be good to see it age normalized, because I suspect there's some truth in it.
    Oh i am not disputing it. I think so too. But we need to control for this important factor to a) confirm this hunch and b) see how large an factor it is.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 8,898

    Andy_JS said:

    BBC News - National Food Strategy: Prescribe vegetables, tax sugar and salt, says report
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

    I think this is going to go down like a lead ballon outside those who aren't big fans of Boris government. Adding a £200-300 to families food bills.

    The experts know best.
    Media stories today are extra taxes on food and travel....Blair got in a whole heap of trouble with fuel duty.
    Aiui fuel duty is to be abolished under one of the plans, not least because electric vehicles don't pay it, and replaced by, erm, [to be decided]
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/environment/2021/07/14/cars-flights-hit-green-taxes/ (£££)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 62,763
    edited July 15

    Andy_JS said:

    BBC News - National Food Strategy: Prescribe vegetables, tax sugar and salt, says report
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

    I think this is going to go down like a lead ballon outside those who aren't big fans of Boris government. Adding a £200-300 to families food bills.

    The experts know best.
    Media stories today are extra taxes on food and travel....Blair got in a whole heap of trouble with fuel duty.
    Aiui fuel duty is to be abolished under one of the plans, not least because electric vehicles don't pay it, and replaced by, erm, [to be decided]
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/environment/2021/07/14/cars-flights-hit-green-taxes/ (£££)
    Road pricing.... that's another thing that got the electorate absolutely steaming when it was talked about 15 years ago.

    Talk of higher taxes on fuel / airplane travel, road pricing, id cards, those 3 things seemed to really piss a lot of people off when Labour was in power. Hence why the second two got ditched.

    Maybe things have changed now among the electorate in regards to this. We will see.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 62,763
    edited July 15
    Vote Tory, for massive borrowing and higher taxes on your food, holidays and car travel....even for Boris that seems like an incredibly hard sell to his base.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 38,885

    Andy_JS said:
    The comments are rather mixed to say the least...e.g. FT journalist.

    This is thoroughly unpleasant.
    I've written plenty of stories that have been fiercely critical of the Home Office during Patel's time there but this is an abhorrent image.

    https://twitter.com/RKWinvisibleman/status/1415316610076848130?s=19
    I don't like Patel, but that cartoon is pretty offensive.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 2,668
    edited July 15

    Vote Tory, for massive borrowing and higher taxes on your food, holidays and car travel....even for Boris that seems like an incredibly hard sell to his base.

    Economically, the government feels more and more like Gordon Brown's - obsessive nannying, tiresome gimmicks and strangling anybody who shows any enterprise or initiative.

    I've always felt that clown Sunak is completely out of his depth.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 4,012
    edited July 15
    Yippee! A sub-sample thread! I look forward to mountains of posts pointing out why sub-samples are useless and people highlighting them are idiots. PB is, after all, famous for its consistency and fairness. Anecdata will then be produced claiming that people with degrees are huge fans of the man sacked from three jobs for dishonesty.

    While we’re patiently waiting, here’s the Ipsos Mori findings for Scottish VI:

    SNP 51%
    Con 16%
    Lab 15%
    LD 10%
    Grn 2%
    oth 5%

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2021-07/Ipsos MORI Political Monitor tables_140721_PUBLIC.pdf
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 62,763
    edited July 15
    Fishing said:

    Vote Tory, for massive borrowing and higher taxes on your food, holidays and car travel....even for Boris that seems like an incredibly hard sell to his base.

    Economically, the government feels more and more like Gordon Brown's - obsessive nannying, tiresome gimmicks and strangling anybody who shows any enterprise or initiative.
    Its a weird mish mash of we can't trust you to see ads for certain foods before 9pm, but we trust you to decide when to use a mask or not.....
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 6,295
    edited July 15
    One other thing about MORI is that they have asked an unprompted question for many decades re what are the most important issues facing the UK / yourself.

    This feels like a very timely moment to ask - where does racism come in the MORI issues index?

    The answer to that question may give a clue re how much impact all the media coverage is likely to have politically.

    (From memory I don't ever remember racism scoring anything in the index but would like to see the most up to date survey).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 34,764
    Kettle: The failed aid revolt was not a damp squib. It is part of a complex, volatile and continuing political realignment in a Britain struggling to renew forms of majoritarian common purpose. Several of the best speeches on Tuesday – including those by Hilary Benn, Andrew Mitchell and Rachel Reeves – all highlighted how the aid cut, the Euros finals and the emergence from Covid each pose a question about who we are as a nation. Johnson has got the answers wrong on all of them. It is an indication of why he will fail in the end.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    Such an interesting thread Mike. Thank you for it.

    This is yet another example of the divisions running through our land. It's difficult to avoid accusations of being supercilious but the fact is that intelligent people can see through Boris Johnson. Uneducated people can't.

    He's a trickster. A conman. Full of blague, bluster and bullshit.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    The i is carrying the story of yet another of Johnson's vanity projects today. This time it's his £900,000 splurge on repainting his Brexit jet.

    https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/b28lN2mvhESXHA4XrlHGSg/https/media.fyre.co/DSor2L6NR3e7vNn0SnOl_001-thei-xnf-20210715_1626299259_001.png

    He's virtually bankrupt in his private life and he's going to do the same with the public finances. He splurges on vanity projects left, right and centre. Someone should confiscate the credit cards before he does even more damage.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    TimT said:

    I hate the snide implications of any of these "the more education you have, the more likely you are to ..."

    Those with higher education are no more worthy humans than those without it. Period. Especially in matters political.

    No one said they're 'more worthy'.

    But they ARE better educated.

    There's an important difference.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    Part of the problem is that some not very educated people think Boris Johnson is enormously clever.

    He's not.

    There's a good reason he got a 2:1 and not a 1st, not that there's anything wrong with a 2:1 but he was affronted about it. He's lazy, has a poor grasp of detail and tries to pull the wool over people's eyes by highfalutin speech.

    Educated people see through it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 54,426

    The i is carrying the story of yet another of Johnson's vanity projects today. This time it's his £900,000 splurge on repainting his Brexit jet.

    https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/b28lN2mvhESXHA4XrlHGSg/https/media.fyre.co/DSor2L6NR3e7vNn0SnOl_001-thei-xnf-20210715_1626299259_001.png

    He's virtually bankrupt in his private life and he's going to do the same with the public finances. He splurges on vanity projects left, right and centre. Someone should confiscate the credit cards before he does even more damage.

    I’m bewildered as to why the plane hasn’t been used more often in the last year or so.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760

    PB is, after all, famous for its consistency and fairness.

    PB is a site which correctly predicted both the stunning Chesham & Amersham by-election win by the LibDems and the Labour hold in Batley & Spen.

    Wisdom is proved right by her actions.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 4,047
    edited July 15

    TimT said:

    I hate the snide implications of any of these "the more education you have, the more likely you are to ..."

    Those with higher education are no more worthy humans than those without it. Period. Especially in matters political.

    No one said they're 'more worthy'.

    But they ARE better educated.

    There's an important difference.
    I know plenty of people with fancy degrees from ivory towers who most definitely are NOT better educated ... That may have more education, but that is not the same as better ...

    PS And of course they don't say it out loud. Hence my use of snide implication. Of course, no one educated likes Johnson - it's only the plebs who do. That is the implication.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,136
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I: PM’s Brexit jet rarely used since £900,000 paint job #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1415413804352036867/photo/1



    More money spaffed up the wall...

    That's the Indy-Mail.

    The jet created for the Prime Minister to travel in hasn't been used for travel at a time of very heavily restricted international travel. Meanwhile it continues to be used in its primary role.

    Why has he since bought another 2 x A321LR in same tawdry livery and very expensive VVIP interior fits?

    Does the useless flabby fucker just like spunking money on vanity purchases?
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    I hate the snide implications of any of these "the more education you have, the more likely you are to ..."

    Those with higher education are no more worthy humans than those without it. Period. Especially in matters political.

    No one said they're 'more worthy'.

    But they ARE better educated.

    There's an important difference.
    I know plenty of people with fancy degrees from ivory towers who most definitely are NOT better educated ... That may have more education, but that is not the same as better ...

    PS And of course they don't say it out loud. Hence my use of snide implication. Of course, no one educated likes Johnson - it's only the plebs who do. That is the implication.
    I really think you need to get over yourself. It's clearly you who has the hang-ups and problems about this. In fact, your implication is all the more sinister:

    How dare you criticise our beloved PM just because you have a degree.

    Snide? That seems to be you

    Yours is the most appalling type of stalinist dystopian nightmare imaginable.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    Dura_Ace said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I: PM’s Brexit jet rarely used since £900,000 paint job #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1415413804352036867/photo/1



    More money spaffed up the wall...

    That's the Indy-Mail.

    The jet created for the Prime Minister to travel in hasn't been used for travel at a time of very heavily restricted international travel. Meanwhile it continues to be used in its primary role.


    Does the useless flabby fucker just like spunking money on vanity purchases?
    Yes
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited July 15
    I have a tory-voting friend (didn't go to Uni as it happens) who thinks the sun shines out of Boris Johnson's arse. She adores him. Thinks he's enormously clever and intelligent. Thinks it was him who brought bikes and the Olympics to London.

    Doesn't matter how frequently or in what way I try to explain that neither of those is wholly, or even in part, true. He's 'just so intelligent' y'see ...
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,268

    It feels like we do this every few weeks....need to be adjusted to consider age.

    That is a factor but the big expansion of UK higher education was triggered in 1962 following the Robbins report. If you were 18 then you are now 77. I was part of one of the first generations to benefit.
    In 1980, it with still just 15%, 1990, it was only 25%. Its basically double that now.

    Without adjusting for this, simplistic degree / no degree is strongly a proxy for age.
    As for the quality of education post 1990 for example............... And yes I certainly feel we've had tis one before and not so long ago.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 32,646
    Balearics moving to Amber list after huge cases spike - who on Earth would have predicted that?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 38,885
    Sandpit said:

    Balearics moving to Amber list after huge cases spike - who on Earth would have predicted that?

    Half of PB?
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,268

    Andy_JS said:
    The comments are rather mixed to say the least...e.g. FT journalist.

    This is thoroughly unpleasant.
    I've written plenty of stories that have been fiercely critical of the Home Office during Patel's time there but this is an abhorrent image.

    https://twitter.com/RKWinvisibleman/status/1415316610076848130?s=19
    Jesus! All rules of decency are suspended when hating the Tories is the 'beautiful' game.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 38,885
    Fishing said:

    Vote Tory, for massive borrowing and higher taxes on your food, holidays and car travel....even for Boris that seems like an incredibly hard sell to his base.

    Economically, the government feels more and more like Gordon Brown's - obsessive nannying, tiresome gimmicks and strangling anybody who shows any enterprise or initiative.

    I've always felt that clown Sunak is completely out of his depth.
    Your Gordon Brown analogy is an excellent one.

    Sadly.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 38,885

    Yippee! A sub-sample thread! I look forward to mountains of posts pointing out why sub-samples are useless and people highlighting them are idiots. PB is, after all, famous for its consistency and fairness. Anecdata will then be produced claiming that people with degrees are huge fans of the man sacked from three jobs for dishonesty.

    While we’re patiently waiting, here’s the Ipsos Mori findings for Scottish VI:

    SNP 51%
    Con 16%
    Lab 15%
    LD 10%
    Grn 2%
    oth 5%

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2021-07/Ipsos MORI Political Monitor tables_140721_PUBLIC.pdf

    Wow. LibDems just six points behind Con and Lab.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 14,593
    IanB2 said:

    Johnson has got the answers wrong on all of them. It is an indication of why he will fail in the end.

    This is true. The tragedy of course is that he is in the position to make all of these bad calls.

    He was elected to "get Brexit done" but the Brexit he delivered is the one of 'project fear'

    Northern Ireland trade completely fucked? Check.
    Trade with the EU severely disrupted? Check.
    Supply chain problems and shortages? Check.
    Massive overheads for no material gain? Check.
    Labour constraints? Check.

    Every day he proves the naysayers right, but there is no joy in that
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 56,149
    edited July 15
    Good morning, everyone.

    I'm sure heaping a load of tax onto the weekly shop as we try to emerge from a pandemic-induced period of economic turbulence will be super popular.

    Edited extra bit: but it does come with a puritanical lecture attached, so as least it's in accordance with modern fashion.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 14,593
    rcs1000 said:

    I don't like Patel, but that cartoon is pretty offensive.

    So is she.

    She blew the dogwhistle, tried to piggyback on the team success, then tried some virtue signalling and was rightly smacked down for it.

    It's not an amusing cartoon, but it is painfully on the nose.

    May sacked her. No PM except BoZo would ever put her back in cabinet, and he should have sacked her a couple of times since.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    I bet you that any thinking tory i.e. a Conservative with a brain, deep down has serious qualms about Boris Johnson and what he's doing.

    The tragedy is that Theresa May wasn't quite strong enough or competent enough to hold off the nutters on the Far Right who were all Brexit or Bust. The situation was aided and abetted by the stupidity of the Labour Party in general and the malevolence of Jeremy Corbyn in particular.

    This country is heading downhill. Fast.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 363
    All this demonstrates is that higher education = progressive political views, particularly amongst people lower than 60. Higher education, particularly in the humanities and social sciences, can involve a significant element of political indoctrination, and this has been increasingly so for 40+ years.



  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,348
    felix said:

    Andy_JS said:
    The comments are rather mixed to say the least...e.g. FT journalist.

    This is thoroughly unpleasant.
    I've written plenty of stories that have been fiercely critical of the Home Office during Patel's time there but this is an abhorrent image.

    https://twitter.com/RKWinvisibleman/status/1415316610076848130?s=19
    Jesus! All rules of decency are suspended when hating the Tories is the 'beautiful' game.
    Very hard for bereft left to win diddlysquat while it appears to be institutionally hatist.
    I'll site Blair, Milliband, Brown and Corbyn as examples at leadership level.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited July 15
    darkage said:

    All this demonstrates is that higher education = progressive political views, particularly amongst people lower than 60. Higher education, particularly in the humanities and social sciences, can involve a significant element of political indoctrination, and this has been increasingly so for 40+ years.

    No that really is not 'all' this demonstrates.

    The idea that higher education is full of political indoctrination is terribly old hat and no longer particularly true. But your argument is unravelled by the fact that this divide has never before been seen so starkly. Theresa May did not attract such levels of distrust among the educated. Nor did David Cameron. Nor Gordon Brown. Nor Tony Blair. Nor John Major (himself not educated to degree level). Nor, even, did Margaret Thatcher.

    The reason is not the one you've given. It's because we have a charlatan, a shamster, a blaguer, a serial liar, in charge of this country.

    We can see it. Clearly.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,348
    Cite and site are different words. Must educate my phone, fingers or wake up.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    Scott_xP said:

    darkage said:

    All this demonstrates is that higher education = progressive political views, particularly amongst people lower than 60. Higher education, particularly in the humanities and social sciences, can involve a significant element of political indoctrination, and this has been increasingly so for 40+ years.

    I have a degree in engineering

    I was happy to vote for Major, and Hague, and Cameron and May.

    BoZo is a disgrace to the office. Every day he is PM is a stain on our nation.
    There you go. You posted that as I wrote mine.

    Quod erat demonstrandum.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 14,593
    edited July 15

    It’s confirmed that England’s football team declined the invitation to attend 10 Downing Street. But @BorisJohnson said the team couldn't attend due to no available time to meet & greet. Our Prime Minister wouldn't dare lie would he?
    https://twitter.com/MaxRobertFinch/status/1415398322907516931


  • darkagedarkage Posts: 363

    darkage said:

    All this demonstrates is that higher education = progressive political views, particularly amongst people lower than 60. Higher education, particularly in the humanities and social sciences, can involve a significant element of political indoctrination, and this has been increasingly so for 40+ years.

    No that really is not 'all' this demonstrates.

    The idea that higher education is full of political indoctrination is terribly old hat and no longer particularly true. But your argument is unravelled by the fact that this divide has never before been seen so starkly. Theresa May did not attract such levels of distrust among the educated. Nor did David Cameron. Nor Gordon Brown. Nor Tony Blair. Nor, even, did Margaret Thatcher.

    The reason is not the one you've given. It's because we have a charlatan, a shamster, a blaguer, a serial liar, in charge of this country.

    We can see it. Clearly.
    The evidence about the left wing bias in universities is overwhelming. Look up the work that Eric Kaufmann has done recently. It is inevitable this has an impact on graduates.

    Boris is like Trump, he upsets the values of the educated progressive elite; making no attempt at all to placate them unlike his predecessors. That explains his success with the less educated, who have always been easier to herd for political purposes than intellectuals.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 34,764
    Scott_xP said:


    It’s confirmed that England’s football team declined the invitation to attend 10 Downing Street. But @BorisJohnson said the team couldn't attend due to no available time to meet & greet. Our Prime Minister wouldn't dare lie would he?
    https://twitter.com/MaxRobertFinch/status/1415398322907516931


    An easy one, since it’s completely obvious he would clear his diary for a photo op like that.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 14,593
    IanB2 said:

    An easy one, since it’s completely obvious he would clear his diary for a photo op like that.

    Posted previously, the team should have agreed to a photo op with BoZo taking the knee
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 363
    Scott_xP said:

    darkage said:

    All this demonstrates is that higher education = progressive political views, particularly amongst people lower than 60. Higher education, particularly in the humanities and social sciences, can involve a significant element of political indoctrination, and this has been increasingly so for 40+ years.

    I have a degree in engineering

    I was happy to vote for Major, and Hague, and Cameron and May.

    BoZo is a disgrace to the office. Every day he is PM is a stain on our nation.

    Well, in my view as a supposedly educated intellectual the most anti intellectual government was that of David Cameron. They were absolutely dreadful. Boris Johnson (and to a lesser extent Theresa May) was a relief.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2021/04/david-cameron-and-great-sell-out
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 49,939
    Scott_xP said:


    It’s confirmed that England’s football team declined the invitation to attend 10 Downing Street. But @BorisJohnson said the team couldn't attend due to no available time to meet & greet. Our Prime Minister wouldn't dare lie would he?
    https://twitter.com/MaxRobertFinch/status/1415398322907516931


    Any more robust source for that than (checks notes) a Labour Parish Councillor?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 49,939
    The most recent data show the labour market continuing to recover.

    The number of payroll employees showed another monthly increase, up 356,000 in June 2021 to 28.9 million. However, it remains 206,000 below pre-coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic levels. For the first time since the beginning of the pandemic, some regions are now above pre-pandemic (February 2020) levels. These include North East, North West, East Midlands and Northern Ireland.

    Following a period of employment growth and low unemployment, since the start of the pandemic, the employment rate has generally decreased, and the unemployment rate increased. However, since the end of 2020 both have shown signs of recovery. In the latest period (March to May 2021), there was an increase in the employment rate of 0.1 percentage points, to 74.8%, and a decrease in the unemployment rate of 0.2 percentage points, to 4.8%. The economic inactivity rate is up 0.1 percentage points on the previous quarter, to 21.3%.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/uklabourmarket/july2021
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 14,593

    Any more robust source for that than (checks notes) a Labour Parish Councillor?

    Does the Express count?

    https://twitter.com/Sh3llieeeeee/status/1415284015100272640
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 14,593
    It's very much Not My Job to give Conservative MPs advice, but they can have this piece for free.
    https://thecritic.co.uk/missing-from-the-penalty-spot/ https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/1415555105122918404/photo/1
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 58,366
    Scott_xP said:

    darkage said:

    All this demonstrates is that higher education = progressive political views, particularly amongst people lower than 60. Higher education, particularly in the humanities and social sciences, can involve a significant element of political indoctrination, and this has been increasingly so for 40+ years.

    I have a degree in engineering

    I was happy to vote for Major, and Hague, and Cameron and May.

    BoZo is a disgrace to the office. Every day he is PM is a stain on our nation.
    You voted for the person who sent this to to ethnic minority areas?
    image

    But Boris is a stain?

    You've been driven mad by Brexit.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 29,849

    The most recent data show the labour market continuing to recover.

    The number of payroll employees showed another monthly increase, up 356,000 in June 2021 to 28.9 million. However, it remains 206,000 below pre-coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic levels. For the first time since the beginning of the pandemic, some regions are now above pre-pandemic (February 2020) levels. These include North East, North West, East Midlands and Northern Ireland.

    Following a period of employment growth and low unemployment, since the start of the pandemic, the employment rate has generally decreased, and the unemployment rate increased. However, since the end of 2020 both have shown signs of recovery. In the latest period (March to May 2021), there was an increase in the employment rate of 0.1 percentage points, to 74.8%, and a decrease in the unemployment rate of 0.2 percentage points, to 4.8%. The economic inactivity rate is up 0.1 percentage points on the previous quarter, to 21.3%.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/uklabourmarket/july2021

    When I was a teenager, high unemployment was seen as a very bad thing, and conversely, low unemployment a good thing. I'm not sure that holds good today, with all the moaning about labour shortages.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760

    Scott_xP said:

    darkage said:

    All this demonstrates is that higher education = progressive political views, particularly amongst people lower than 60. Higher education, particularly in the humanities and social sciences, can involve a significant element of political indoctrination, and this has been increasingly so for 40+ years.

    I have a degree in engineering

    I was happy to vote for Major, and Hague, and Cameron and May.

    BoZo is a disgrace to the office. Every day he is PM is a stain on our nation.
    You voted for the person who sent this to to ethnic minority areas?
    image

    But is a stain?

    You've been driven mad by Brexit.
    Come on Philip. I am sure deep inside of you, you know that this is a cheap shot non-argument. Every politician campaigns hard and they are almost invariably dirty. None of them get elected through being saintly.

    The difference between moments of aberration and Boris Johnson is that with the latter they are not just moments. They ARE him.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 49,939
    Scott_xP said:

    Any more robust source for that than (checks notes) a Labour Parish Councillor?

    Does the Express count?

    https://twitter.com/Sh3llieeeeee/status/1415284015100272640
    You usually prefer the Guardian…

    Guardian political correspondent Aubrey Allegretti tweeted: "I’m told that plans to have the England team to Downing Street for a reception this week have been shelved, with attention turning instead to the PM’s levelling up speech in a few days."
  • eekeek Posts: 13,645
    edited July 15

    Scott_xP said:

    darkage said:

    All this demonstrates is that higher education = progressive political views, particularly amongst people lower than 60. Higher education, particularly in the humanities and social sciences, can involve a significant element of political indoctrination, and this has been increasingly so for 40+ years.

    I have a degree in engineering

    I was happy to vote for Major, and Hague, and Cameron and May.

    BoZo is a disgrace to the office. Every day he is PM is a stain on our nation.
    You voted for the person who sent this to to ethnic minority areas?
    image

    But Boris is a stain?

    You've been driven mad by Brexit.
    Well - I voted for May (best of the options, actually talked about elephants in the room although her approach was electoral poison)

    I didn't vote for Boris (known liar, not Bright enough to see what he had agreed to).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 29,849

    Scott_xP said:

    darkage said:

    All this demonstrates is that higher education = progressive political views, particularly amongst people lower than 60. Higher education, particularly in the humanities and social sciences, can involve a significant element of political indoctrination, and this has been increasingly so for 40+ years.

    I have a degree in engineering

    I was happy to vote for Major, and Hague, and Cameron and May.

    BoZo is a disgrace to the office. Every day he is PM is a stain on our nation.
    You voted for the person who sent this to to ethnic minority areas?
    image

    But Boris is a stain?

    You've been driven mad by Brexit.
    As so many people who have little to worry about have been.
  • TazTaz Posts: 1,090
    Another day another column from OGH bashing Boris. This must surely reflect the respective ages of the electorate and where their votes fall. More younger people support labour than older.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 25,169
    Scott_xP said:


    It’s confirmed that England’s football team declined the invitation to attend 10 Downing Street. But @BorisJohnson said the team couldn't attend due to no available time to meet & greet. Our Prime Minister wouldn't dare lie would he?
    https://twitter.com/MaxRobertFinch/status/1415398322907516931


    A wise decision by the team. They shouldn't be used for political stunts by either party.

    In any case, they all need a break. The season starts again in 4 weeks time.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 14,593
    Sean_F said:

    As so many people who have little to worry about have been.

    Brexit has made life more difficult and expensive for everybody.

    Why are you not worried about that?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 58,366

    Scott_xP said:

    darkage said:

    All this demonstrates is that higher education = progressive political views, particularly amongst people lower than 60. Higher education, particularly in the humanities and social sciences, can involve a significant element of political indoctrination, and this has been increasingly so for 40+ years.

    I have a degree in engineering

    I was happy to vote for Major, and Hague, and Cameron and May.

    BoZo is a disgrace to the office. Every day he is PM is a stain on our nation.
    You voted for the person who sent this to to ethnic minority areas?
    image

    But is a stain?

    You've been driven mad by Brexit.
    Come on Philip. I am sure deep inside of you, you know that this is a cheap shot non-argument. Every politician campaigns hard and they are almost invariably dirty. None of them get elected through being saintly.

    The difference between moments of aberration and Boris Johnson is that with the latter they are not just moments. They ARE him.
    The difference between May and Boris is that Boris gets the big calls right.

    He was the first leading Tory to be in favour of gay marriage.
    He was on the right side in the Brexit referendum.
    He got a far superior Brexit deal to May's.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 29,849

    Good morning everyone. Lovely bright one here, and the forecast is excellent!

    Can I, as a very old man, have a grouse. When I were a lad, as the saying goes, the f word was rarely used among my friends and associates. Indeed, it was considered extremely offensive.
    Now it's used as noun, adjective and verb on every possible occasion.
    I was always taught that to use swear words to embellish speech demonstrated a lack of vocabulary, and even more so when writing, unless of course, appropriate for the writing.

    Rant over!

    I try to avoid doing so, but I sometimes use that word at moments of stress.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 38,440
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:


    It’s confirmed that England’s football team declined the invitation to attend 10 Downing Street. But @BorisJohnson said the team couldn't attend due to no available time to meet & greet. Our Prime Minister wouldn't dare lie would he?
    https://twitter.com/MaxRobertFinch/status/1415398322907516931


    A wise decision by the team. They shouldn't be used for political stunts by either party.

    In any case, they all need a break. The season starts again in 4 weeks time.
    Phil Foden has sure changed with his latest injury.
  • eekeek Posts: 13,645
    Andy_JS said:

    BBC News - National Food Strategy: Prescribe vegetables, tax sugar and salt, says report
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

    I think this is going to go down like a lead ballon outside those who aren't big fans of Boris government. Adding a £200-300 to families food bills.

    The experts know best.
    What are they experts in - I would get money that it's not economics
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 32,646
    Sean_F said:

    The most recent data show the labour market continuing to recover.

    The number of payroll employees showed another monthly increase, up 356,000 in June 2021 to 28.9 million. However, it remains 206,000 below pre-coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic levels. For the first time since the beginning of the pandemic, some regions are now above pre-pandemic (February 2020) levels. These include North East, North West, East Midlands and Northern Ireland.

    Following a period of employment growth and low unemployment, since the start of the pandemic, the employment rate has generally decreased, and the unemployment rate increased. However, since the end of 2020 both have shown signs of recovery. In the latest period (March to May 2021), there was an increase in the employment rate of 0.1 percentage points, to 74.8%, and a decrease in the unemployment rate of 0.2 percentage points, to 4.8%. The economic inactivity rate is up 0.1 percentage points on the previous quarter, to 21.3%.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/uklabourmarket/july2021

    When I was a teenager, high unemployment was seen as a very bad thing, and conversely, low unemployment a good thing. I'm not sure that holds good today, with all the moaning about labour shortages.
    A combination of higher pay, corporate investment in training, and replacement of unskilled labour with capital, will sort out labour shortages - to the benefit of society overall.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    All this demonstrates is that higher education = progressive political views, particularly amongst people lower than 60. Higher education, particularly in the humanities and social sciences, can involve a significant element of political indoctrination, and this has been increasingly so for 40+ years.

    No that really is not 'all' this demonstrates.

    The idea that higher education is full of political indoctrination is terribly old hat and no longer particularly true. But your argument is unravelled by the fact that this divide has never before been seen so starkly. Theresa May did not attract such levels of distrust among the educated. Nor did David Cameron. Nor Gordon Brown. Nor Tony Blair. Nor, even, did Margaret Thatcher.

    The reason is not the one you've given. It's because we have a charlatan, a shamster, a blaguer, a serial liar, in charge of this country.

    We can see it. Clearly.
    The evidence about the left wing bias in universities is overwhelming. Look up the work that Eric Kaufmann has done recently. It is inevitable this has an impact on graduates.

    Boris is like Trump, he upsets the values of the educated progressive elite; making no attempt at all to placate them unlike his predecessors. That explains his success with the less educated, who have always been easier to herd for political purposes than intellectuals.
    Trump was defeated and appealing to him as some sort of success is most droll.

    The 'evidence' you cite is from White Shift Kaufman really isn't the whole picture and it's incredibly patronising to students. I've taught on University campuses much of my life and I can assure you that if a lecturer goes off on one in a left-wing diatribe, or even a more subtle attempt to coerce opinion, students invariably roll their eyes in sheer boredom. Politics has little or no interest unless you're a Dean of politics or a writer on pb.com.

    Unless of course you are lumping something like climate change into being a leftie. Trump would. But hopefully you're brighter than that.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 25,169
    edited July 15

    Good morning everyone. Lovely bright one here, and the forecast is excellent!

    Can I, as a very old man, have a grouse. When I were a lad, as the saying goes, the f word was rarely used among my friends and associates. Indeed, it was considered extremely offensive.
    Now it's used as noun, adjective and verb on every possible occasion.
    I was always taught that to use swear words to embellish speech demonstrated a lack of vocabulary, and even more so when writing, unless of course, appropriate for the writing.

    Rant over!

    Yes, OKC, I am showing my age with this too. Far too much swearing going on, and a sign of inarticularcy. English has much better ways to express.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 11,744
    Scott_xP said:

    Any more robust source for that than (checks notes) a Labour Parish Councillor?

    Does the Express count?

    https://twitter.com/Sh3llieeeeee/status/1415284015100272640
    Prediction. This is quickly going to turn into a war of words, will end up with Tory MPs speaking out against the "lefty" England team getting involved in politics by - erm - refusing to get involved in politics by giving the Clown his photo op.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 23,276

    Scott_xP said:

    darkage said:

    All this demonstrates is that higher education = progressive political views, particularly amongst people lower than 60. Higher education, particularly in the humanities and social sciences, can involve a significant element of political indoctrination, and this has been increasingly so for 40+ years.

    I have a degree in engineering

    I was happy to vote for Major, and Hague, and Cameron and May.

    BoZo is a disgrace to the office. Every day he is PM is a stain on our nation.
    You voted for the person who sent this to to ethnic minority areas?
    image

    But is a stain?

    You've been driven mad by Brexit.
    Come on Philip. I am sure deep inside of you, you know that this is a cheap shot non-argument. Every politician campaigns hard and they are almost invariably dirty. None of them get elected through being saintly.

    The difference between moments of aberration and Boris Johnson is that with the latter they are not just moments. They ARE him.
    The difference between May and Boris is that Boris gets the big calls right.

    He was the first leading Tory to be in favour of gay marriage.
    He was on the right side in the Brexit referendum.
    He got a far superior Brexit deal to May's.
    One out of three I suppose!

    Personally, I was always rather sorry for Hague. Right guy at the wrong time.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 58,366
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BBC News - National Food Strategy: Prescribe vegetables, tax sugar and salt, says report
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

    I think this is going to go down like a lead ballon outside those who aren't big fans of Boris government. Adding a £200-300 to families food bills.

    The experts know best.
    What are they experts in - I would get money that it's not economics
    The details seems to be to tax wholesale salt and sugar sales, so that wholesale producers use less of it, rather than taxing the salt and sugar content of food.

    Seems like if that happens that would simply provide an immediate incentive to offshore wholesale food production then have high salt and sugar meals and treats imported.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,348
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:


    It’s confirmed that England’s football team declined the invitation to attend 10 Downing Street. But @BorisJohnson said the team couldn't attend due to no available time to meet & greet. Our Prime Minister wouldn't dare lie would he?
    https://twitter.com/MaxRobertFinch/status/1415398322907516931


    A wise decision by the team. They shouldn't be used for political stunts by either party.

    In any case, they all need a break. The season starts again in 4 weeks time.
    It isn't as if they won anything, and on that score is the correct decision. It is hard for them to avoid becoming pawns in political stunts. We spent weeks reading comments about the political impact (or not) of winning the trophy.
  • eekeek Posts: 13,645

    Andy_JS said:

    BBC News - National Food Strategy: Prescribe vegetables, tax sugar and salt, says report
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

    I think this is going to go down like a lead ballon outside those who aren't big fans of Boris government. Adding a £200-300 to families food bills.

    The experts know best.
    Media stories today are extra taxes on food and travel....Blair got in a whole heap of trouble with fuel duty.
    Aiui fuel duty is to be abolished under one of the plans, not least because electric vehicles don't pay it, and replaced by, erm, [to be decided]
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/environment/2021/07/14/cars-flights-hit-green-taxes/ (£££)
    Road pricing.... that's another thing that got the electorate absolutely steaming when it was talked about 15 years ago.

    Talk of higher taxes on fuel / airplane travel, road pricing, id cards, those 3 things seemed to really piss a lot of people off when Labour was in power. Hence why the second two got ditched.

    Maybe things have changed now among the electorate in regards to this. We will see.
    It hasn't but if get £800 a car from duty on fuel and need to get that money from somewhere there really isn't that many options.

    Road pricing will have to be investigated as the other options are worse in different ways
  • TazTaz Posts: 1,090
    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I don't like Patel, but that cartoon is pretty offensive.

    So is she.

    She blew the dogwhistle, tried to piggyback on the team success, then tried some virtue signalling and was rightly smacked down for it.

    It's not an amusing cartoon, but it is painfully on the nose.

    May sacked her. No PM except BoZo would ever put her back in cabinet, and he should have sacked her a couple of times since.
    So misogyny and racism are acceptable if you don’t like the person on the receiving end.

    Same goes when it is Diane a Abbott.

    There’s something about strong BAME women some people find challenging.

    Like rcs1000 I have little time for Patel and she shouldn’t be in the job but the point can be made without resorting to that sort of crap.

    Still, if it floats your boat fill your boots.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    By the way, taking a snide pop at educated people for daring to oppose The Leader really is the end of civilisation. It's everything that totalitarian regimes aspire to in herding unthinking masses along the great cause.

    Dystopia Now.

    Fortunately the wheels are already coming off the Boris Johnson bandwagon. He's too much of a serial liar for it to have stuck around for longer. Someone more wily (Tony Blair for instance) would have got away with it for a lot longer.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 11,744
    We need to be very careful about "the more intelligent you are, the more you see through Liar" arguments. There are plenty of working class people who are street smart in ways that double first at Oxford types are not. What for me seems clear is that people have been led away from their own interests by this shit Pied Piper, and that they're already questioning where the journey is taking them.

    Hasn't fed through into polls or results yet - in part because Labour still repel them - but there is growing disquiet as various polls asking questions other than voting intent show. Ultimately we know this will go wrong for Johnson because like Trump he now believes his own lies, and at some point he is going to trip over himself badly.

    Final point. There are some very well educated Clown Apologists on here. What is their excuse?
  • TazTaz Posts: 1,090
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BBC News - National Food Strategy: Prescribe vegetables, tax sugar and salt, says report
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

    I think this is going to go down like a lead ballon outside those who aren't big fans of Boris government. Adding a £200-300 to families food bills.

    The experts know best.
    Media stories today are extra taxes on food and travel....Blair got in a whole heap of trouble with fuel duty.
    Aiui fuel duty is to be abolished under one of the plans, not least because electric vehicles don't pay it, and replaced by, erm, [to be decided]
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/environment/2021/07/14/cars-flights-hit-green-taxes/ (£££)
    Road pricing.... that's another thing that got the electorate absolutely steaming when it was talked about 15 years ago.

    Talk of higher taxes on fuel / airplane travel, road pricing, id cards, those 3 things seemed to really piss a lot of people off when Labour was in power. Hence why the second two got ditched.

    Maybe things have changed now among the electorate in regards to this. We will see.
    It hasn't but if get £800 a car from duty on fuel and need to get that money from somewhere there really isn't that many options.

    Road pricing will have to be investigated as the other options are worse in different ways
    Road pricing will have to happen to fill the gap left by duties and VAT on petrol. Of course there are certain civil liberties issues here and some people will get agitated about it but the govt has to get the tax money from somewhere.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 29,849
    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    The most recent data show the labour market continuing to recover.

    The number of payroll employees showed another monthly increase, up 356,000 in June 2021 to 28.9 million. However, it remains 206,000 below pre-coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic levels. For the first time since the beginning of the pandemic, some regions are now above pre-pandemic (February 2020) levels. These include North East, North West, East Midlands and Northern Ireland.

    Following a period of employment growth and low unemployment, since the start of the pandemic, the employment rate has generally decreased, and the unemployment rate increased. However, since the end of 2020 both have shown signs of recovery. In the latest period (March to May 2021), there was an increase in the employment rate of 0.1 percentage points, to 74.8%, and a decrease in the unemployment rate of 0.2 percentage points, to 4.8%. The economic inactivity rate is up 0.1 percentage points on the previous quarter, to 21.3%.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/uklabourmarket/july2021

    When I was a teenager, high unemployment was seen as a very bad thing, and conversely, low unemployment a good thing. I'm not sure that holds good today, with all the moaning about labour shortages.
    A combination of higher pay, corporate investment in training, and replacement of unskilled labour with capital, will sort out labour shortages - to the benefit of society overall.
    I thought it wonderful when Lord Rose explained that one of the downsides to Brexit would be higher wages.
  • TazTaz Posts: 1,090

    By the way, taking a snide pop at educated people for daring to oppose The Leader really is the end of civilisation. It's everything that totalitarian regimes aspire to in herding unthinking masses along the great cause.

    Dystopia Now.

    Fortunately the wheels are already coming off the Boris Johnson bandwagon. He's too much of a serial liar for it to have stuck around for longer. Someone more wily (Tony Blair for instance) would have got away with it for a lot longer.

    People confuse educated for intelligent.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 58,366
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BBC News - National Food Strategy: Prescribe vegetables, tax sugar and salt, says report
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

    I think this is going to go down like a lead ballon outside those who aren't big fans of Boris government. Adding a £200-300 to families food bills.

    The experts know best.
    Media stories today are extra taxes on food and travel....Blair got in a whole heap of trouble with fuel duty.
    Aiui fuel duty is to be abolished under one of the plans, not least because electric vehicles don't pay it, and replaced by, erm, [to be decided]
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/environment/2021/07/14/cars-flights-hit-green-taxes/ (£££)
    Road pricing.... that's another thing that got the electorate absolutely steaming when it was talked about 15 years ago.

    Talk of higher taxes on fuel / airplane travel, road pricing, id cards, those 3 things seemed to really piss a lot of people off when Labour was in power. Hence why the second two got ditched.

    Maybe things have changed now among the electorate in regards to this. We will see.
    It hasn't but if get £800 a car from duty on fuel and need to get that money from somewhere there really isn't that many options.

    Road pricing will have to be investigated as the other options are worse in different ways
    Fuel was taxed because fuel had externalities and was environmentally toxic.

    Now that drivers are switching away from fuel, there seems to be a desire to keep raising revenues from drivers rather than simply accept that fuel has gone and that society as a whole needs to pay for its costs.

    Its like having if smokers all quit smoking placing a tax on ex-smokers to replace tobacco taxes.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 14,593
    Taz said:

    So misogyny and racism are acceptable if you don’t like the person on the receiving end.

    Same goes when it is Diane a Abbott.

    There’s something about strong BAME women some people find challenging.

    Like rcs1000 I have little time for Patel and she shouldn’t be in the job but the point can be made without resorting to that sort of crap.

    Still, if it floats your boat fill your boots.

    Fuck off.

    I made the point she shouldn't be in the job.

    I didn't mention her gender or ethnicity.
  • TazTaz Posts: 1,090

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BBC News - National Food Strategy: Prescribe vegetables, tax sugar and salt, says report
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

    I think this is going to go down like a lead ballon outside those who aren't big fans of Boris government. Adding a £200-300 to families food bills.

    The experts know best.
    Media stories today are extra taxes on food and travel....Blair got in a whole heap of trouble with fuel duty.
    Aiui fuel duty is to be abolished under one of the plans, not least because electric vehicles don't pay it, and replaced by, erm, [to be decided]
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/environment/2021/07/14/cars-flights-hit-green-taxes/ (£££)
    Road pricing.... that's another thing that got the electorate absolutely steaming when it was talked about 15 years ago.

    Talk of higher taxes on fuel / airplane travel, road pricing, id cards, those 3 things seemed to really piss a lot of people off when Labour was in power. Hence why the second two got ditched.

    Maybe things have changed now among the electorate in regards to this. We will see.
    It hasn't but if get £800 a car from duty on fuel and need to get that money from somewhere there really isn't that many options.

    Road pricing will have to be investigated as the other options are worse in different ways
    Fuel was taxed because fuel had externalities and was environmentally toxic.

    Now that drivers are switching away from fuel, there seems to be a desire to keep raising revenues from drivers rather than simply accept that fuel has gone and that society as a whole needs to pay for its costs.

    Its like having if smokers all quit smoking placing a tax on ex-smokers to replace tobacco taxes.
    Motorists should still pay some form of tax to, as a bare minimum, fund the road network.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 58,366
    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    So misogyny and racism are acceptable if you don’t like the person on the receiving end.

    Same goes when it is Diane a Abbott.

    There’s something about strong BAME women some people find challenging.

    Like rcs1000 I have little time for Patel and she shouldn’t be in the job but the point can be made without resorting to that sort of crap.

    Still, if it floats your boat fill your boots.

    Fuck off.

    I made the point she shouldn't be in the job.

    I didn't mention her gender or ethnicity.
    So you piled in on her rather than condem the misogyny and racism.

    No surprise there.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 6,739

    Good morning everyone. Lovely bright one here, and the forecast is excellent!

    Can I, as a very old man, have a grouse. When I were a lad, as the saying goes, the f word was rarely used among my friends and associates. Indeed, it was considered extremely offensive.
    Now it's used as noun, adjective and verb on every possible occasion.
    I was always taught that to use swear words to embellish speech demonstrated a lack of vocabulary, and even more so when writing, unless of course, appropriate for the writing.

    Rant over!

    I read somewhere that among other ranks in ww2 it was in such common use they it almost ceased to be offensive. It crops up a lot in contemporary fiction (where it was written "bucking" to get part the censors).
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 11,744
    In other news, I called corruption. Outrageous said the Clown Apologists. And now that Mancock can be used as the scapegoat for all failings what do leaked emails show?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/15/firm-with-ties-to-matt-hancock-given-vip-treatment-emails-suggest?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • TazTaz Posts: 1,090

    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    So misogyny and racism are acceptable if you don’t like the person on the receiving end.

    Same goes when it is Diane a Abbott.

    There’s something about strong BAME women some people find challenging.

    Like rcs1000 I have little time for Patel and she shouldn’t be in the job but the point can be made without resorting to that sort of crap.

    Still, if it floats your boat fill your boots.

    Fuck off.

    I made the point she shouldn't be in the job.

    I didn't mention her gender or ethnicity.
    So you piled in on her rather than condem the misogyny and racism.

    No surprise there.
    Which proves my point in the first place
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 14,593
    Taz said:

    Which proves my point in the first place

    There was no misogyny or racism

    That you imagined it says more about you than me
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 58,366
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BBC News - National Food Strategy: Prescribe vegetables, tax sugar and salt, says report
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

    I think this is going to go down like a lead ballon outside those who aren't big fans of Boris government. Adding a £200-300 to families food bills.

    The experts know best.
    Media stories today are extra taxes on food and travel....Blair got in a whole heap of trouble with fuel duty.
    Aiui fuel duty is to be abolished under one of the plans, not least because electric vehicles don't pay it, and replaced by, erm, [to be decided]
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/environment/2021/07/14/cars-flights-hit-green-taxes/ (£££)
    Road pricing.... that's another thing that got the electorate absolutely steaming when it was talked about 15 years ago.

    Talk of higher taxes on fuel / airplane travel, road pricing, id cards, those 3 things seemed to really piss a lot of people off when Labour was in power. Hence why the second two got ditched.

    Maybe things have changed now among the electorate in regards to this. We will see.
    It hasn't but if get £800 a car from duty on fuel and need to get that money from somewhere there really isn't that many options.

    Road pricing will have to be investigated as the other options are worse in different ways
    Fuel was taxed because fuel had externalities and was environmentally toxic.

    Now that drivers are switching away from fuel, there seems to be a desire to keep raising revenues from drivers rather than simply accept that fuel has gone and that society as a whole needs to pay for its costs.

    Its like having if smokers all quit smoking placing a tax on ex-smokers to replace tobacco taxes.
    Motorists should still pay some form of tax to, as a bare minimum, fund the road network.
    Absolutely that is reasonable. VED raises nearly as much as is spent on the roads. Fuel duty raises about £40bn more than is spent on the roads.

    Keeping VED and having approximately half a penny per kWh would replace all of fuel duty and be "fair". Drivers would be paying via when they refuel their electric cars and would still pay more tax from that than is spent on roads - but the rest of society would pay its fair share too.
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