Was it that poor? They lost 1 list seat and held all their constituencies at Holyrood
Yes, that lost seat on the regional list put them below the parliamentary threshold of five seats to be recognised as a group, which means the party lost rights in Holyrood. They have lost representation on the business bureau, where parties decide on the business of the parliament for the week, and lost a guaranteed question at First Minister’s Questions, among other things.
My God, that's awful.
They lost a guaranteed question at an event no-one cares about.
Can it get any worse for them???
FMQs is widely watched and reported in Scotland, although I can understand those disinterested in the affairs of our nation don’t tune in.
I fear they'll choose publicity hound Cole-Hamilton as new leader to make up for the attention deficit. That'll be bad for the rest of us but sub optimal for the SLDs in the long run too.
Good header @Cyclefree and no doubt we will see more of Couzens history. I would not be surprised if other cases came to light.
On thing that I find with police, and I know a few, is that police spend a lot of time dealing with very unsavoury characters. That is their job, but it does create a warped sense of normality. What seems evil, just becomes routine, then becomes normality. I have seen it in other lines of work too.. People lose their moral compass if they do not get some time to decompress and re-orientate to what normal values are.
To an extent Internal Affairs Investigations needs robust support, but so does internal pastoral care and counselling. It cannot just be left to a dysfunctional canteen or locker room culture. It needs to be active and institutional interest in psychological and counselling support of those in the frontline. There needs to be an arm around the shoulder as well as the hairdryer, to use a football analogy.
Agreed. That requires emotionally intelligent management, which is rarer than one would like.
John Sutherland's book "Crossing the Line" about the effect of police work is very good on this aspect.
In my own team - while we were rarely faced with the sorts of issues the police face - we did develop a necessarily caustic and cynical view and bonded closely because of it and the need to stick together. Every so often though (especially after long intense cases) I did make sure people got time out to go off and be normal again, outside normal holidays. And with some disturbing stuff, it was good to find supportive people at work one could trust when things got too much. You badly need a decompression activity to keep you sane and grounded.
I would add, that such internal pastoral care is not just good for organisational culture and values, it reduces the number of stress related absences and staff turnover.
I think Medicine and Teaching need it too. We cannot afford to lose as many good staff as we do.
PS. Great Primo Levi reference in the title. A book that I need to get back to. He was such a great dissector of the moral dilemmas of resistance and collaboration.
Every time I hear a Labour MP talking about something, they sound like someone who doesn't really like people in general very much, particularly people in this country. I'm not sure that's a good position for a political party to adopt.
I think the blunt version of what you are saying is the opposition front bench is a bit shit?
Every time I hear a Labour MP talking about something, they sound like someone who doesn't really like people in general very much, particularly people in this country. I'm not sure that's a good position for a political party to adopt.
But it isn't. It is actually England fans kicking the shit out of "fans" who have just broken in without tickets, thus threatening a Hillsborough style stampede. That explains why some of them shout "do your fucking job" at the stewards at the end of the clip
Very different from that perspective. These so called hooligans might have saved lives
What is clear is this: there was a terrible failure of security at Wembley. We are lucky no one died
Good header @Cyclefree and no doubt we will see more of Couzens history. I would not be surprised if other cases came to light.
On thing that I find with police, and I know a few, is that police spend a lot of time dealing with very unsavoury characters. That is their job, but it does create a warped sense of normality. What seems evil, just becomes routine, then becomes normality. I have seen it in other lines of work too.. People lose their moral compass if they do not get some time to decompress and re-orientate to what normal values are.
To an extent Internal Affairs Investigations needs robust support, but so does internal pastoral care and counselling. It cannot just be left to a dysfunctional canteen or locker room culture. It needs to be active and institutional interest in psychological and counselling support of those in the frontline. There needs to be an arm around the shoulder as well as the hairdryer, to use a football analogy.
Very fair Foxy.
I mentioned on last thread that here in Colchester last night my son witnessed what appeared to be Police over reaction in response to a yob verbally abusing them one to many times.
Yes, clearly inappropriate behaviour, rather like soldiers abusing or killing prisoners. It is an act that has several preceeding steps to get them to breaking point. While punishment is needed, far better to head off such behaviour in advance by intelligent active pastoral intervention by the organisation. Stop it before it happens is better all round.
But it isn't. It is actually England fans kicking the shit out of "fans" who have just broken in without tickets, thus threatening a Hillsborough style stampede. That explains why some of them shout "do your fucking job" at the stewards at the end of the clip
Very different from that perspective. These so called hooligans might have saved lives
What is clear is this: there was a terrible failure of security at Wembley. We are lucky no one died
Vigorous and forthright assistance for clearly overwhelmed stewards.
Covid, Boris and Cakeism. Is it just me who watched The Saj in the House, and Boris in Downing Street, and was reminded that Boris's policy on cake is pro-having and pro-eating?
The impression is that the Prime Minister desperately wants the pandemic to be over so life can return to normal and he can lift the restrictions and declare freedom. But also that he and the government are worried that the pandemic is not over and will probably get worse before it gets better, and that's if it gets better at all.
So after next week we don't have to wear masks, but we should. There will be no vaccine passports, unless the industry does not create vaccine passports, in which case the government may do.
This is not freedom; this is not caution; it is cakeism.
I'mnot sure I agree. This is neither having cake nor eating it.
This is ordering a nice pizza and getting a Hawaiian pizza instead.
But the important thing (for the PM) is that, whatever happens next, It's Not His Fault.
If this all goes a bit Dutch, it's the public's fault for not being responsible.
If businesses stay shut, it's their fault for being cowardly custards who didn't take the opportunity to re-open.
If the government is forced to introduce vaxports, it's because venues have failed to do it out of their own wisdom.
Almost makes one wonder why he wants to be PM if he hates taking decisions so much.
But no doubt his admirers will continue to admire him.
Talking of which, it's gants off in France;
French president Emmanuel Macron has announced a package of measures to help France control a fourth wave of Covid cases, including stricter border controls, the extension of the health passport for more everyday activities and making the vaccine compulsory for all healthcare workers...
Shortly after the speech, there were about 20 000 vaccination appointments being made every minute.
I don’t think you can call them vaxports - sounds like an airport for vacuum cleaners. What about vaxpass? Vaxtics?
“Hey, want a vaxpass for the gig?” “Can’t, I took load of lemon to bunk off school this week.”
A law is surely either a law or it ain’t anything. Abolishing law, but saying behave with caution, you have full freedom, but be careful means what exactly? Something undefined really, rather like use your common sense could mean one thing to one, another thing to another.
I agree there is a sense Freedom Day has actually been a shift of responsibility from Whitehall and Parliament to Business. Shall we explore one example, transport company’s, like buses, wishing to protect their drivers, does the government want them to impose “mask on this bus” policy’s? But how is that even achievable now with passengers arguing it’s not law, Boris says it’s optional?
One thing I forsee is a lot of abuse of frotline transport staff, shop assistants, waiting staff, receptionists etc.
But it isn't. It is actually England fans kicking the shit out of "fans" who have just broken in without tickets, thus threatening a Hillsborough style stampede. That explains why some of them shout "do your fucking job" at the stewards at the end of the clip
Very different from that perspective. These so called hooligans might have saved lives
What is clear is this: there was a terrible failure of security at Wembley. We are lucky no one died
Vigourous and forthright assistance for clearly overwhelmed stewards.
As someone says on that thread, the least you can expect - in England, with our history of fatal crown stampedes - is someone kicking the shit out of you, if you try and break in, en masse, without a ticket in a big match
I suddenly have zero sympathy for the twits being slapped
There is more video evidence from outside the ground, revealing that is it exactly the same people who get a shoeing indoors
Covid, Boris and Cakeism. Is it just me who watched The Saj in the House, and Boris in Downing Street, and was reminded that Boris's policy on cake is pro-having and pro-eating?
The impression is that the Prime Minister desperately wants the pandemic to be over so life can return to normal and he can lift the restrictions and declare freedom. But also that he and the government are worried that the pandemic is not over and will probably get worse before it gets better, and that's if it gets better at all.
So after next week we don't have to wear masks, but we should. There will be no vaccine passports, unless the industry does not create vaccine passports, in which case the government may do.
This is not freedom; this is not caution; it is cakeism.
I'mnot sure I agree. This is neither having cake nor eating it.
This is ordering a nice pizza and getting a Hawaiian pizza instead.
But the important thing (for the PM) is that, whatever happens next, It's Not His Fault.
If this all goes a bit Dutch, it's the public's fault for not being responsible.
If businesses stay shut, it's their fault for being cowardly custards who didn't take the opportunity to re-open.
If the government is forced to introduce vaxports, it's because venues have failed to do it out of their own wisdom.
Almost makes one wonder why he wants to be PM if he hates taking decisions so much.
But no doubt his admirers will continue to admire him.
Talking of which, it's gants off in France;
French president Emmanuel Macron has announced a package of measures to help France control a fourth wave of Covid cases, including stricter border controls, the extension of the health passport for more everyday activities and making the vaccine compulsory for all healthcare workers...
Shortly after the speech, there were about 20 000 vaccination appointments being made every minute.
I don’t think you can call them vaxports - sounds like an airport for vacuum cleaners. What about vaxpass? Vaxtics?
“Hey, want a vaxpass for the gig?” “Can’t, I took load of lemon to bunk off school this week.”
A law is surely either a law or it ain’t anything. Abolishing law, but saying behave with caution, you have full freedom, but be careful means what exactly? Something undefined really, rather like use your common sense could mean one thing to one, another thing to another.
I agree there is a sense Freedom Day has actually been a shift of responsibility from Whitehall and Parliament to Business. Shall we explore one example, transport company’s, like buses, wishing to protect their drivers, does the government want them to impose “mask on this bus” policy’s? But how is that even achievable now with passengers arguing it’s not law, Boris says it’s optional?
One thing I forsee is a lot of abuse of frotline transport staff, shop assistants, waiting staff, receptionists etc.
Don't be arseholes please people.
Are we including behaviour toward the police in that lot, or are they the public sector staff that can be forever abused ?
Covid, Boris and Cakeism. Is it just me who watched The Saj in the House, and Boris in Downing Street, and was reminded that Boris's policy on cake is pro-having and pro-eating?
The impression is that the Prime Minister desperately wants the pandemic to be over so life can return to normal and he can lift the restrictions and declare freedom. But also that he and the government are worried that the pandemic is not over and will probably get worse before it gets better, and that's if it gets better at all.
So after next week we don't have to wear masks, but we should. There will be no vaccine passports, unless the industry does not create vaccine passports, in which case the government may do.
This is not freedom; this is not caution; it is cakeism.
I'mnot sure I agree. This is neither having cake nor eating it.
This is ordering a nice pizza and getting a Hawaiian pizza instead.
But the important thing (for the PM) is that, whatever happens next, It's Not His Fault.
If this all goes a bit Dutch, it's the public's fault for not being responsible.
If businesses stay shut, it's their fault for being cowardly custards who didn't take the opportunity to re-open.
If the government is forced to introduce vaxports, it's because venues have failed to do it out of their own wisdom.
Almost makes one wonder why he wants to be PM if he hates taking decisions so much.
But no doubt his admirers will continue to admire him.
Talking of which, it's gants off in France;
French president Emmanuel Macron has announced a package of measures to help France control a fourth wave of Covid cases, including stricter border controls, the extension of the health passport for more everyday activities and making the vaccine compulsory for all healthcare workers...
Shortly after the speech, there were about 20 000 vaccination appointments being made every minute.
I don’t think you can call them vaxports - sounds like an airport for vacuum cleaners. What about vaxpass? Vaxtics?
“Hey, want a vaxpass for the gig?” “Can’t, I took load of lemon to bunk off school this week.”
A law is surely either a law or it ain’t anything. Abolishing law, but saying behave with caution, you have full freedom, but be careful means what exactly? Something undefined really, rather like use your common sense could mean one thing to one, another thing to another.
I agree there is a sense Freedom Day has actually been a shift of responsibility from Whitehall and Parliament to Business. Shall we explore one example, transport company’s, like buses, wishing to protect their drivers, does the government want them to impose “mask on this bus” policy’s? But how is that even achievable now with passengers arguing it’s not law, Boris says it’s optional?
One thing I forsee is a lot of abuse of frotline transport staff, shop assistants, waiting staff, receptionists etc.
Don't be arseholes please people.
Are we including behaviour toward the police in that lot, or are they the public sector staff that can be forever abused ?
Yes, and healthcare staff etc. Our HCAs are sometimes in tears from the abuse they get for policing infection control measures.
Covid, Boris and Cakeism. Is it just me who watched The Saj in the House, and Boris in Downing Street, and was reminded that Boris's policy on cake is pro-having and pro-eating?
The impression is that the Prime Minister desperately wants the pandemic to be over so life can return to normal and he can lift the restrictions and declare freedom. But also that he and the government are worried that the pandemic is not over and will probably get worse before it gets better, and that's if it gets better at all.
So after next week we don't have to wear masks, but we should. There will be no vaccine passports, unless the industry does not create vaccine passports, in which case the government may do.
This is not freedom; this is not caution; it is cakeism.
I'mnot sure I agree. This is neither having cake nor eating it.
This is ordering a nice pizza and getting a Hawaiian pizza instead.
But the important thing (for the PM) is that, whatever happens next, It's Not His Fault.
If this all goes a bit Dutch, it's the public's fault for not being responsible.
If businesses stay shut, it's their fault for being cowardly custards who didn't take the opportunity to re-open.
If the government is forced to introduce vaxports, it's because venues have failed to do it out of their own wisdom.
Almost makes one wonder why he wants to be PM if he hates taking decisions so much.
But no doubt his admirers will continue to admire him.
Talking of which, it's gants off in France;
French president Emmanuel Macron has announced a package of measures to help France control a fourth wave of Covid cases, including stricter border controls, the extension of the health passport for more everyday activities and making the vaccine compulsory for all healthcare workers...
Shortly after the speech, there were about 20 000 vaccination appointments being made every minute.
I don’t think you can call them vaxports - sounds like an airport for vacuum cleaners. What about vaxpass? Vaxtics?
“Hey, want a vaxpass for the gig?” “Can’t, I took load of lemon to bunk off school this week.”
A law is surely either a law or it ain’t anything. Abolishing law, but saying behave with caution, you have full freedom, but be careful means what exactly? Something undefined really, rather like use your common sense could mean one thing to one, another thing to another.
I agree there is a sense Freedom Day has actually been a shift of responsibility from Whitehall and Parliament to Business. Shall we explore one example, transport company’s, like buses, wishing to protect their drivers, does the government want them to impose “mask on this bus” policy’s? But how is that even achievable now with passengers arguing it’s not law, Boris says it’s optional?
One thing I forsee is a lot of abuse of frotline transport staff, shop assistants, waiting staff, receptionists etc.
Don't be arseholes please people.
Even beyond that, I'm concerned that you're going to get various grades of spat breaking out between members of the general public according to where they appear on the anxious-to-carefree scale. It's not just the dreaded masks - I won't bore you with the details but suffice it to say we had a recent experience of interacting with a stranger for whom their personal space (even outdoors) extended to about ten feet in every direction. Over a year of this has left some people in quite a state.
Covid, Boris and Cakeism. Is it just me who watched The Saj in the House, and Boris in Downing Street, and was reminded that Boris's policy on cake is pro-having and pro-eating?
The impression is that the Prime Minister desperately wants the pandemic to be over so life can return to normal and he can lift the restrictions and declare freedom. But also that he and the government are worried that the pandemic is not over and will probably get worse before it gets better, and that's if it gets better at all.
So after next week we don't have to wear masks, but we should. There will be no vaccine passports, unless the industry does not create vaccine passports, in which case the government may do.
This is not freedom; this is not caution; it is cakeism.
I'mnot sure I agree. This is neither having cake nor eating it.
This is ordering a nice pizza and getting a Hawaiian pizza instead.
But the important thing (for the PM) is that, whatever happens next, It's Not His Fault.
If this all goes a bit Dutch, it's the public's fault for not being responsible.
If businesses stay shut, it's their fault for being cowardly custards who didn't take the opportunity to re-open.
If the government is forced to introduce vaxports, it's because venues have failed to do it out of their own wisdom.
Almost makes one wonder why he wants to be PM if he hates taking decisions so much.
But no doubt his admirers will continue to admire him.
Talking of which, it's gants off in France;
French president Emmanuel Macron has announced a package of measures to help France control a fourth wave of Covid cases, including stricter border controls, the extension of the health passport for more everyday activities and making the vaccine compulsory for all healthcare workers...
Shortly after the speech, there were about 20 000 vaccination appointments being made every minute.
I don’t think you can call them vaxports - sounds like an airport for vacuum cleaners. What about vaxpass? Vaxtics?
“Hey, want a vaxpass for the gig?” “Can’t, I took load of lemon to bunk off school this week.”
A law is surely either a law or it ain’t anything. Abolishing law, but saying behave with caution, you have full freedom, but be careful means what exactly? Something undefined really, rather like use your common sense could mean one thing to one, another thing to another.
I agree there is a sense Freedom Day has actually been a shift of responsibility from Whitehall and Parliament to Business. Shall we explore one example, transport company’s, like buses, wishing to protect their drivers, does the government want them to impose “mask on this bus” policy’s? But how is that even achievable now with passengers arguing it’s not law, Boris says it’s optional?
One thing I forsee is a lot of abuse of frotline transport staff, shop assistants, waiting staff, receptionists etc.
Don't be arseholes please people.
Or if you do want to be an arsehole, be one on PB, where you'll get a whole bunch of likes for your arseholery.
@contrarian expressed concern about there being no correlation between cases and vaccination rates. ALways tricky to work out exactly what is going on in the USA as the northeastern seaboard was very hard hit in previous waves, along with a few roughly random red states.
Wayne Couzens was clearly a wrong'un and lessons MUST be learnt - but generalising from him to the rest of the force is a bit Shipman/GPs.
Statistically, aren't doctors by far the most murderous profession?
I'm sure that was true before Shipman. My ex-husband worked as an NHS hospital pharmacist and told me that doctors would use drugs to finish off hopeless bed-blockers. It was definitely wrong, but also, just maybe, a little bit right?
Wayne Couzens was clearly a wrong'un and lessons MUST be learnt - but generalising from him to the rest of the force is a bit Shipman/GPs.
Statistically, aren't doctors by far the most murderous profession?
I'm sure that was true before Shipman. My ex-husband worked as an NHS hospital pharmacist and told me that doctors would use drugs to finish off hopeless bed-blockers. It was definitely wrong, but also, just maybe, a little bit right?
Now we use the euphemism "assisted dying". It wasn't just Shipman. This was Gosport.
@Cyclefree thank you for this. I saw it from a link on twitter earlier and have recommended it to some friends and colleagues who have all been similarly impressed by your summary of this appalling mess.
Every time I hear a Labour MP talking about something, they sound like someone who doesn't really like people in general very much, particularly people in this country. I'm not sure that's a good position for a political party to adopt.
It's all they've had left since they rejected Blairism and Corbyn. There's an interesting history to be written about the left's search for an ideology that wins since the collapse of Communism. You had the Blair Third Way, which collapsed after Iraq and Lebanon, Brown's Splash the Cash, which failed after 2008, Miliband's nerdish managerialism, Corey's crazy Communist wokeism and Starmer, who seems to be a mixture of Brown and Miliband.
Good header @Cyclefree and no doubt we will see more of Couzens history. I would not be surprised if other cases came to light.
On thing that I find with police, and I know a few, is that police spend a lot of time dealing with very unsavoury characters. That is their job, but it does create a warped sense of normality. What seems evil, just becomes routine, then becomes normality. I have seen it in other lines of work too.. People lose their moral compass if they do not get some time to decompress and re-orientate to what normal values are.
To an extent Internal Affairs Investigations needs robust support, but so does internal pastoral care and counselling. It cannot just be left to a dysfunctional canteen or locker room culture. It needs to be active and institutional interest in psychological and counselling support of those in the frontline. There needs to be an arm around the shoulder as well as the hairdryer, to use a football analogy.
Very fair Foxy.
I mentioned on last thread that here in Colchester last night my son witnessed what appeared to be Police over reaction in response to a yob verbally abusing them one to many times.
Yes, clearly inappropriate behaviour, rather like soldiers abusing or killing prisoners. It is an act that has several preceeding steps to get them to breaking point. While punishment is needed, far better to head off such behaviour in advance by intelligent active pastoral intervention by the organisation. Stop it before it happens is better all round.
These comments by @foxy are very valuable in helping to understand the all too frequent loss of moral compass of individual officers. They should be applicable at both an individual level and a team level. The culture and pressure to form protective cliques or groups, which is a more pernicious development than the rougue individual probably stem from the same root causes. @Foxy may have made me more understanding of the causes of police going off on what csn be seen as self protective but distrucive tangents.
Excellent from Cyclefree, as always. One of the problems with recruitment and personal evaluation is this.
If you are on a jury you are entitled to come to a conclusion about someone's character, veracity and so on, and act on it. No-one is allowed to challenge you, question you or say you are wrong. You believe or disbelieve a defendant, or a police witness or whoever, just because you do. Call it sixth sense.
Outside the Crown Court that sixth sense is no longer allowed. So all the sorts of judgements Cyclefree wants to be made are difficult, because all your judgements can be challenged, derided as being evidence-free, discriminatory and so on. So people pull their punches, decline to rely on the sixth sense, and use the lack of an independent evidence base to justify decisions they know in their hearts are wrong.
Everyone, especially women, know people who are creeps. People who should not be near: child care, teaching, police duties, and lots of other things. Try proving it to the satisfaction of the HR department and the lawyers!
That personal evaluation, essential to criminal justice, but not permitted or dangerous in the bureaucratic HR world. That's part of the problem.
Teaching its simple. You have a clean enhanced DBS. That, apparently, you don't need one for the Police is jaw-dropping.
If the school (or indeed any organisation) is doing its job, you also have those recruiting paying close attention to CVs for the discrepancies @Cyclefree refers to in her header.
Greensill Capital paid Cameron salary of more than $1m a year Former prime minister said to have made in excess of $40,000 a day from collapsed finance firm
Covid, Boris and Cakeism. Is it just me who watched The Saj in the House, and Boris in Downing Street, and was reminded that Boris's policy on cake is pro-having and pro-eating?
The impression is that the Prime Minister desperately wants the pandemic to be over so life can return to normal and he can lift the restrictions and declare freedom. But also that he and the government are worried that the pandemic is not over and will probably get worse before it gets better, and that's if it gets better at all.
So after next week we don't have to wear masks, but we should. There will be no vaccine passports, unless the industry does not create vaccine passports, in which case the government may do.
This is not freedom; this is not caution; it is cakeism.
I'mnot sure I agree. This is neither having cake nor eating it.
This is ordering a nice pizza and getting a Hawaiian pizza instead.
But the important thing (for the PM) is that, whatever happens next, It's Not His Fault.
If this all goes a bit Dutch, it's the public's fault for not being responsible.
If businesses stay shut, it's their fault for being cowardly custards who didn't take the opportunity to re-open.
If the government is forced to introduce vaxports, it's because venues have failed to do it out of their own wisdom.
Almost makes one wonder why he wants to be PM if he hates taking decisions so much.
But no doubt his admirers will continue to admire him.
Talking of which, it's gants off in France;
French president Emmanuel Macron has announced a package of measures to help France control a fourth wave of Covid cases, including stricter border controls, the extension of the health passport for more everyday activities and making the vaccine compulsory for all healthcare workers...
Shortly after the speech, there were about 20 000 vaccination appointments being made every minute.
I don’t think you can call them vaxports - sounds like an airport for vacuum cleaners. What about vaxpass? Vaxtics?
“Hey, want a vaxpass for the gig?” “Can’t, I took load of lemon to bunk off school this week.”
A law is surely either a law or it ain’t anything. Abolishing law, but saying behave with caution, you have full freedom, but be careful means what exactly? Something undefined really, rather like use your common sense could mean one thing to one, another thing to another.
I agree there is a sense Freedom Day has actually been a shift of responsibility from Whitehall and Parliament to Business. Shall we explore one example, transport company’s, like buses, wishing to protect their drivers, does the government want them to impose “mask on this bus” policy’s? But how is that even achievable now with passengers arguing it’s not law, Boris says it’s optional?
One thing I forsee is a lot of abuse of frotline transport staff, shop assistants, waiting staff, receptionists etc.
Don't be arseholes please people.
Even beyond that, I'm concerned that you're going to get various grades of spat breaking out between members of the general public according to where they appear on the anxious-to-carefree scale. It's not just the dreaded masks - I won't bore you with the details but suffice it to say we had a recent experience of interacting with a stranger for whom their personal space (even outdoors) extended to about ten feet in every direction. Over a year of this has left some people in quite a state.
Yeah I've had the same thing. Lunacy.
And we're still reporting case numbers and getting people freaked out. The same with the U.S. now.
Case numbers don't matter if deaths remain miniscule, which they do. Of 150 deaths in the UK only 1 will even vaguely be related to covid. 450 people died of cancer in the UK yesterday. Perspective is now badly needed.
Covid, Boris and Cakeism. Is it just me who watched The Saj in the House, and Boris in Downing Street, and was reminded that Boris's policy on cake is pro-having and pro-eating?
The impression is that the Prime Minister desperately wants the pandemic to be over so life can return to normal and he can lift the restrictions and declare freedom. But also that he and the government are worried that the pandemic is not over and will probably get worse before it gets better, and that's if it gets better at all.
So after next week we don't have to wear masks, but we should. There will be no vaccine passports, unless the industry does not create vaccine passports, in which case the government may do.
This is not freedom; this is not caution; it is cakeism.
I'mnot sure I agree. This is neither having cake nor eating it.
This is ordering a nice pizza and getting a Hawaiian pizza instead.
But the important thing (for the PM) is that, whatever happens next, It's Not His Fault.
If this all goes a bit Dutch, it's the public's fault for not being responsible.
If businesses stay shut, it's their fault for being cowardly custards who didn't take the opportunity to re-open.
If the government is forced to introduce vaxports, it's because venues have failed to do it out of their own wisdom.
Almost makes one wonder why he wants to be PM if he hates taking decisions so much.
But no doubt his admirers will continue to admire him.
Talking of which, it's gants off in France;
French president Emmanuel Macron has announced a package of measures to help France control a fourth wave of Covid cases, including stricter border controls, the extension of the health passport for more everyday activities and making the vaccine compulsory for all healthcare workers...
Shortly after the speech, there were about 20 000 vaccination appointments being made every minute.
I don’t think you can call them vaxports - sounds like an airport for vacuum cleaners. What about vaxpass? Vaxtics?
“Hey, want a vaxpass for the gig?” “Can’t, I took load of lemon to bunk off school this week.”
A law is surely either a law or it ain’t anything. Abolishing law, but saying behave with caution, you have full freedom, but be careful means what exactly? Something undefined really, rather like use your common sense could mean one thing to one, another thing to another.
I agree there is a sense Freedom Day has actually been a shift of responsibility from Whitehall and Parliament to Business. Shall we explore one example, transport company’s, like buses, wishing to protect their drivers, does the government want them to impose “mask on this bus” policy’s? But how is that even achievable now with passengers arguing it’s not law, Boris says it’s optional?
One thing I forsee is a lot of abuse of frotline transport staff, shop assistants, waiting staff, receptionists etc.
Don't be arseholes please people.
If someone illegally tells me to put a mask on and I refuse, does that make me an arsehole?
The main message we need to drive home is getting everyone vaccinated. We should be vaccinating our children too: a terrible mistake by the UK.
Covid, Boris and Cakeism. Is it just me who watched The Saj in the House, and Boris in Downing Street, and was reminded that Boris's policy on cake is pro-having and pro-eating?
The impression is that the Prime Minister desperately wants the pandemic to be over so life can return to normal and he can lift the restrictions and declare freedom. But also that he and the government are worried that the pandemic is not over and will probably get worse before it gets better, and that's if it gets better at all.
So after next week we don't have to wear masks, but we should. There will be no vaccine passports, unless the industry does not create vaccine passports, in which case the government may do.
This is not freedom; this is not caution; it is cakeism.
I'mnot sure I agree. This is neither having cake nor eating it.
This is ordering a nice pizza and getting a Hawaiian pizza instead.
But the important thing (for the PM) is that, whatever happens next, It's Not His Fault.
If this all goes a bit Dutch, it's the public's fault for not being responsible.
If businesses stay shut, it's their fault for being cowardly custards who didn't take the opportunity to re-open.
If the government is forced to introduce vaxports, it's because venues have failed to do it out of their own wisdom.
Almost makes one wonder why he wants to be PM if he hates taking decisions so much.
But no doubt his admirers will continue to admire him.
Talking of which, it's gants off in France;
French president Emmanuel Macron has announced a package of measures to help France control a fourth wave of Covid cases, including stricter border controls, the extension of the health passport for more everyday activities and making the vaccine compulsory for all healthcare workers...
Shortly after the speech, there were about 20 000 vaccination appointments being made every minute.
I don’t think you can call them vaxports - sounds like an airport for vacuum cleaners. What about vaxpass? Vaxtics?
“Hey, want a vaxpass for the gig?” “Can’t, I took load of lemon to bunk off school this week.”
A law is surely either a law or it ain’t anything. Abolishing law, but saying behave with caution, you have full freedom, but be careful means what exactly? Something undefined really, rather like use your common sense could mean one thing to one, another thing to another.
I agree there is a sense Freedom Day has actually been a shift of responsibility from Whitehall and Parliament to Business. Shall we explore one example, transport company’s, like buses, wishing to protect their drivers, does the government want them to impose “mask on this bus” policy’s? But how is that even achievable now with passengers arguing it’s not law, Boris says it’s optional?
One thing I forsee is a lot of abuse of frotline transport staff, shop assistants, waiting staff, receptionists etc.
Don't be arseholes please people.
Even beyond that, I'm concerned that you're going to get various grades of spat breaking out between members of the general public according to where they appear on the anxious-to-carefree scale. It's not just the dreaded masks - I won't bore you with the details but suffice it to say we had a recent experience of interacting with a stranger for whom their personal space (even outdoors) extended to about ten feet in every direction. Over a year of this has left some people in quite a state.
Yeah I've had the same thing. Lunacy.
And we're still reporting case numbers and getting people freaked out. The same with the U.S. now.
Case numbers don't matter if deaths remain miniscule, which they do. Of 150 deaths in the UK only 1 will even vaguely be related to covid. 450 people died of cancer in the UK yesterday. Perspective is now badly needed.
Hospitalisations matter. That's somewhere between cases and deaths.
Excellent piece, as usual @Cyclefree. There’s something rotten about the Met, it’s one problem after another. The fish rots from the head.
It does prompt the question, though, that in the unlikely event of Dick being sacked, would her replacement be any better ? Does anyone have confidence in the Home Secretary to appoint a reforming Commissioner who is up to the task ?
Excellent piece, as usual @Cyclefree. There’s something rotten about the Met, it’s one problem after another. The fish rots from the head.
It does prompt the question, though, that in the unlikely event of Dick being sacked, would her replacement be any better ? Does anyone have confidence in the Home Secretary to appoint a reforming Commissioner who is up to the task ?
Excellent piece, as usual @Cyclefree. There’s something rotten about the Met, it’s one problem after another. The fish rots from the head.
It does prompt the question, though, that in the unlikely event of Dick being sacked, would her replacement be any better ? Does anyone have confidence in the Home Secretary to appoint a reforming Commissioner who is up to the task ?
Greensill Capital paid Cameron salary of more than $1m a year Former prime minister said to have made in excess of $40,000 a day from collapsed finance firm
Nice work if you can get it.
Wtf?
I know how much "advisors" in the City get paid, with banks and funds taking advantage of their Rolodex, their draw at conferences, and yes, their occasional insights.
Excellent piece, as usual @Cyclefree. There’s something rotten about the Met, it’s one problem after another. The fish rots from the head.
It does prompt the question, though, that in the unlikely event of Dick being sacked, would her replacement be any better ? Does anyone have confidence in the Home Secretary to appoint a reforming Commissioner who is up to the task ?
Excellent piece, as usual @Cyclefree. There’s something rotten about the Met, it’s one problem after another. The fish rots from the head.
It does prompt the question, though, that in the unlikely event of Dick being sacked, would her replacement be any better ? Does anyone have confidence in the Home Secretary to appoint a reforming Commissioner who is up to the task ?
WATCH: A reminder what Home Secretary said to me last month around taking the knee
Priti Patel said those involved are participating in “gesture politics” and when asked if England fans had a right to boo said “that's a choice for them, quite frankly”
But in those terms she’s right. They do have a right to boo. Should they so wish. No laws are being broken. It’s just a bit daft to boo it and claim it’s supporting Marxism.
I wouldn’t boo what is a well meaning gesture against a pervasive evil in society and if it is gesture politics it is a good gesture.
Only a fascist would agree that they don’t have a right to boo. The whole circus was sadly completely avoidable. Supposedly it wasn’t political but you’ve got politicians interfering in football and footballers interfering in politics. I suspect Mings and Patel won’t be in their respective positions in a couple of years thankfully. One is not a very good Home Sec and one is not a very good international centre back.
Yet plenty of people across the political,and celebrity spectrum are doing just that and trying to deny the right of fans to boo.
Christ your victim complex is off the charts.
Nobody is denying the right of fans to “boo”, they’re just calling them dickheads. Rightly.
But it isn't. It is actually England fans kicking the shit out of "fans" who have just broken in without tickets, thus threatening a Hillsborough style stampede. That explains why some of them shout "do your fucking job" at the stewards at the end of the clip
Very different from that perspective. These so called hooligans might have saved lives
What is clear is this: there was a terrible failure of security at Wembley. We are lucky no one died
Greensill Capital paid Cameron salary of more than $1m a year Former prime minister said to have made in excess of $40,000 a day from collapsed finance firm
Nice work if you can get it.
Wtf?
I know how much "advisors" in the City get paid, with banks and funds taking advantage of their Rolodex, their draw at conferences, and yes, their occasional insights.
It's not $1m/year.
Plus massive quantities of share options.
Cameron was a fool.
The man who was going to end sleaze in politics. Dear me.
Leon trying to spin senseless violence, including an adult punching a kid and a thug randomly hitting people then piling in on an Asian with the words 'take that you Paki scum', is quite remarkable even by his standards.
WATCH: A reminder what Home Secretary said to me last month around taking the knee
Priti Patel said those involved are participating in “gesture politics” and when asked if England fans had a right to boo said “that's a choice for them, quite frankly”
She was right that they had the right to express their opinion. They were wrong to express that opinion and a little more clarity that that was her view too would have been appropriate.
Greensill Capital paid Cameron salary of more than $1m a year Former prime minister said to have made in excess of $40,000 a day from collapsed finance firm
Nice work if you can get it.
Wtf?
I know how much "advisors" in the City get paid, with banks and funds taking advantage of their Rolodex, their draw at conferences, and yes, their occasional insights.
It's not $1m/year.
Plus massive quantities of share options.
Cameron was a fool.
The man who was going to end sleaze in politics. Dear me.
Well, he has. He’s ended doing it in politics and is now doing it for dodgy city firms.
I mentioned a few times that peak Boris passed on May 25th, the day before Cummings launched the first of his exocets. It wasn't that Dom is especially powerful outside of Westminster but that it heralded the end of Johnson's apogee.
It's absolutely clear to most everyone (not Leon and HYUFD) that the long slide is underway.
Greensill Capital paid Cameron salary of more than $1m a year Former prime minister said to have made in excess of $40,000 a day from collapsed finance firm
Nice work if you can get it.
Wtf?
I know how much "advisors" in the City get paid, with banks and funds taking advantage of their Rolodex, their draw at conferences, and yes, their occasional insights.
It's not $1m/year.
Plus massive quantities of share options.
Cameron was a fool.
David Cameron was contracted for 25 days so $1M is $40,000 a day. And he was reported as having up to $60 million in options for the listing that never happened. So yes, in cash terms, not a lot, but a nice windfall if things had worked out.
I don't think Apple are the worst company in the world but you really think they're facilitating this without a commercial interest? Wow that's naive.
Give out heroin for free and ...
Indeed, in a similar vein in our neighbourhood many years ago we all had free Gillette razors, Mach 3 I think, posted through the door. Still use mine to this day.
Excellent piece, as usual @Cyclefree. There’s something rotten about the Met, it’s one problem after another. The fish rots from the head.
Very true and as @Cyclefree has pointed out before Cressida Dick was a truly bizarre appointment for an organisation that seems to find it impossible to address its repeated and multiple failings or allocate responsibility for them. She epitomises that tendency so expecting her to do anything about it is, well, optimistic.
I think that this is an increasing crisis in our country. Our police forces are becoming more remote, more apart, less trustworthy and less respected. We have the same problem in Scotland where the frankly laughably low level of accountability achieved in regional forces has disappeared completely under the behemoth that is Police Scotland. The political classes have lost faith in them following the disgraceful plebgate events. The middle classes have lost faith in them. We are appalled by the Rotherham saga, this Everard murder and a never ending drip feed of negative stories connected with the police neglecting so many kinds of crime in favour of politically charged nonsense.
These are the seeds from which defund police movements started in America. It could happen here too unless someone gets a grip. It could happen to the Met. Just maybe, it should.
Good morning everyone. Or is it? My wife remarked to me earlier..... we both woke early ....... that these didn't seem to be a lot going right, either for us or around us!
Thought-provoking piece, again, from Ms Cyclefree, of course. Nothing, as Julie Andrews sang, comes from nothing.Get away with something, and one gets away with a little bit more next time. Unless one either realises oneself, or is brought up short by someone else!
Voter suppression. Republicans across the states are making it harder to vote, especially for people who might vote Democrat. Don't worry. It could never happen here. Except it has, and it is.
Good morning everyone. Or is it? My wife remarked to me earlier..... we both woke early ....... that these didn't seem to be a lot going right, either for us or around us!
You'd have to be very young not to have met or worked with a wrong 'un in most professions. Sacking a load of people and changing systems always seems an over reaction. People are unpredictable and the bad ones nearly always appear from left field so the chances you'd be making things better is slight. Cressida Dick seems fine. Priti Patel seems dangerous but compared to the sweet Beverley Allitt?
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Because I he mandates it the issue moves down to conductors and other front line workers to deal with.and without any threat of a fine / police backup it's pointless.
The issue is that you can't explain that in an interview as people will repeat the 5 seconds they want and remove the nuance.
Good morning everyone. Or is it? My wife remarked to me earlier..... we both woke early ....... that these didn't seem to be a lot going right, either for us or around us!
Are you okay?
Thank you for asking. I think, TBH, getting old is the main problem. As far as I'm concerned, I've an old injury come back to bite me.
Bad people exist. Many more people are getting away with stuff, and don't get caught, @Foxy alludes to this. They can even exist in HR departments. I am not convinced there is a clear line between good and bad, or that the answer to this problem is to allow people to exercise their judgement a bit more in rooting out evil. I am more of the view expressed by a famous writer once that the line between good and evil is a shifting one that exists within all human hearts, and we should conduct our affairs accordingly.
By far the best documentary I have seen in several years was the BBC produced OJ Simpson, Made in America. It really brought out and explained the reasoning of the black members of the Jury with a clarity that no one else had. The black community of LA didn't just distrust the police, they hated them. They were a hostile, dangerous occupying force and they would give them nothing. No matter what. The George Floyd murder and the BLM led anger it generated fell on very fertile soil.
This is where the alienation of society from the police leads to. It is not where we want to go. Unlike @Leon I find @Cyclefree's piece timely. We are on a dangerous path and we are sleepwalking along it. I don't have much confidence that Priti Patel is the sort of Home Secretary who is going to wake us up.
While not excusing it, an explanation of the footie fan behaviour is that this was the release of pent up frustration and anxiety after a year and a half cooped up not allowed to go anywhere or do anything.
Good morning everyone. Or is it? My wife remarked to me earlier..... we both woke early ....... that these didn't seem to be a lot going right, either for us or around us!
Thought-provoking piece, again, from Ms Cyclefree, of course. Nothing, as Julie Andrews sang, comes from nothing.Get away with something, and one gets away with a little bit more next time. Unless one either realises oneself, or is brought up short by someone else!
We are in a period of dramatic and traumatic adjustment after unprecedented enforced modifications of behaviour which have naturally had effects on physical and mental health.
So people will feel strange right now.
Ride with it. All will be well again before you know it.
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Why not indeed? They surely have the right to make it a condition of travel (with suitable exemptions). I don't see any incompatibility between the withdrawal of the legal regulatory framework by the government and the need for the suppliers of services to give proper consideration to the risks to their staff and the fellow users of their services.
Good morning everyone. Or is it? My wife remarked to me earlier..... we both woke early ....... that these didn't seem to be a lot going right, either for us or around us!
Are you okay?
Thank you for asking. I think, TBH, getting old is the main problem. As far as I'm concerned, I've an old injury come back to bite me.
As for the world...... well!!!!
I'm sorry to hear that. Waking early repeatedly is tough. I hope you can snooze during the day perhaps?
And, agreed, as for the world ...
I often think the 1970's was a much happier time to grow up. I know there were issues and someone will doubtless feel it's their job to list them all here and explain why it was so awful back then but for me at the time, it wasn't. There was a LOT of freedom, something I've increasingly come to value the more it has been removed.
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Because I he mandates it the issue moves down to conductors and other front line workers to deal with.and without any threat of a fine / police backup it's pointless.
The issue is that you can't explain that in an interview as people will repeat the 5 seconds they want and remove the nuance.
That's just not true.
If he wanted to, he could mandate it - and some people would wear it because its mandated even without the threat of draconian police state actions.
Already today people aren't wearing the mask quite often claiming they're "exempt" and how often does that end up in a fine / police backup?
The Grand Old Party has realised that letting people vote enables people to vote for the other party. So they are trying very hard to place blocks on voting where the undesirables live so that fewer of them will vote.
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Because I he mandates it the issue moves down to conductors and other front line workers to deal with.and without any threat of a fine / police backup it's pointless.
The issue is that you can't explain that in an interview as people will repeat the 5 seconds they want and remove the nuance.
This. We know there are a decent number of self-entitled people out there who will aggressively say "fuck you" to anyone suggesting they need to wear a mask once the legal requirement is dropped.
There is going to be a lot of incidents in shops and on buses and other enclosed places where the angry entitled and the staff get into a row and that in the earlier phases of the pandemic is where the staff got assaulted.
We had a real problem with shop staff being verbally and physically abused and the bullshit from the government this last week is an open door for a repeat. That is why Burnham isn't mandating it on Metrolink. Most trams are unstaffed bar the driver anyway, so even if he did want to put his staff in the front line realistically they won't be there.
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Why not indeed? They surely have the right to make it a condition of travel (with suitable exemptions). I don't see any incompatibility between the withdrawal of the legal regulatory framework by the government and the need for the suppliers of services to give proper consideration to the risks to their staff and the fellow users of their services.
We have had posters here proudly announce that they are going to tell anyone who asks them to mask up to "f**k off". Presumably to the front line transport/waiting/shp staff who are making such requests. It's probably just the beer talking, but no need for such rudeness.
But it isn't. It is actually England fans kicking the shit out of "fans" who have just broken in without tickets, thus threatening a Hillsborough style stampede. That explains why some of them shout "do your fucking job" at the stewards at the end of the clip
Very different from that perspective. These so called hooligans might have saved lives
What is clear is this: there was a terrible failure of security at Wembley. We are lucky no one died
It was sent to me as "English fans beating up Italians after the match" - I pointed out it was English ticket holders confronting gate crashers before the match - and 49 arrests had been made...
Good morning everyone. Or is it? My wife remarked to me earlier..... we both woke early ....... that these didn't seem to be a lot going right, either for us or around us!
Are you okay?
Thank you for asking. I think, TBH, getting old is the main problem. As far as I'm concerned, I've an old injury come back to bite me.
As for the world...... well!!!!
I'm sorry to hear that. Waking early repeatedly is tough. I hope you can snooze during the day perhaps?
And, agreed, as for the world ...
I often think the 1970's was a much happier time to grow up. I know there were issues and someone will doubtless feel it's their job to list them all here and explain why it was so awful back then but for me at the time, it wasn't. There was a LOT of freedom, something I've increasingly come to value the more it has been removed.
I don't mind waking early; I'm a natural lark. As an adult, always have been. Was very useful at one time as I could have an hour or so on the paperwork before people started wanting my presence somewhere or other!
And, on reflection, I agree, the 70's had a lot of good points, although no doubt someone here will remember the bad times.. I wasn't 'young'; I had my 40th birthday during that decade, and I remember being able to celebrate.
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Why not indeed? They surely have the right to make it a condition of travel (with suitable exemptions). I don't see any incompatibility between the withdrawal of the legal regulatory framework by the government and the need for the suppliers of services to give proper consideration to the risks to their staff and the fellow users of their services.
It's a bit rich demanding leadership from the government while refusing to show leadership yourself. The case has always been that mask wearing was effectively voluntary, with those with medical exceptions exempt, and challenge of non-mask wearers - because they might be medically exempt - not mandated.
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Because I he mandates it the issue moves down to conductors and other front line workers to deal with.and without any threat of a fine / police backup it's pointless.
The issue is that you can't explain that in an interview as people will repeat the 5 seconds they want and remove the nuance.
This. We know there are a decent number of self-entitled people out there who will aggressively say "fuck you" to anyone suggesting they need to wear a mask once the legal requirement is dropped.
With respect, telling someone that they have no right to make you wear a mask is not 'aggressive' per se. It's the law. So back off slapping that adverb please.
Secondly, refusing to wear a mask is not 'self-entitled'. That's incredibly patronising and supercilious of you. Some people cannot wear masks for medical reasons. Others don't wish to any longer because it is damaging to their mental health. I'm one of those. So stop hectoring others.
I bet you don't stick to the 30 mph speed limit at all times in built up areas?
This is turning into a dystopian Black Mirror episode where utter hypocrites feel it's their (self-entitled?!) right to lecture others.
The difference between the 30 mph - benefit for society - example and mask wearing is that one is illegal and the other isn't, or won't be very soon.
Bad people exist. Many more people are getting away with stuff, and don't get caught, @Foxy alludes to this. They can even exist in HR departments. I am not convinced there is a clear line between good and bad, or that the answer to this problem is to allow people to exercise their judgement a bit more in rooting out evil. I am more of the view expressed by a famous writer once that the line between good and evil is a shifting one that exists within all human hearts, and we should conduct our affairs accordingly.
Oh, I agree. There is often no clear line between good and bad people, few of us are saints or devil's, most are in between. Often the bad behaviour happens because of a culture of closing ranks, rather than the earlier intervention before things get out of hand. For example if Couzens had been reprimanded by his colleagues for his misogyny rather than nicknamed "the rapist" as a canteen joke.
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Why not indeed? They surely have the right to make it a condition of travel (with suitable exemptions). I don't see any incompatibility between the withdrawal of the legal regulatory framework by the government and the need for the suppliers of services to give proper consideration to the risks to their staff and the fellow users of their services.
We have had posters here proudly announce that they are going to tell anyone who asks them to mask up to "f**k off". Presumably to the front line transport/waiting/shp staff who are making such requests. It's probably just the beer talking, but no need for such rudeness.
I'm teetotal. And yes I will tell anyone who insists I wear a mask to fuck off.
Mr. L, aye. The police will kneel for BLM. And ignore a mob of thugs who intimidated a teacher into hiding. And their leader is keener on anti-white discrimination than rooting out the bad eggs in her own force.
I should be the sort of person who's right behind the police. But what happened in Rotherham and many other places, and the examples mentioned above, don't exactly encourage that.
The Grand Old Party has realised that letting people vote enables people to vote for the other party. So they are trying very hard to place blocks on voting where the undesirables live so that fewer of them will vote.
Democracy? Naah.
So why are the west and the US allies so silent on this matter.if it was Russia or Belarus there’d rightly be outrage.
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Because I he mandates it the issue moves down to conductors and other front line workers to deal with.and without any threat of a fine / police backup it's pointless.
The issue is that you can't explain that in an interview as people will repeat the 5 seconds they want and remove the nuance.
This. We know there are a decent number of self-entitled people out there who will aggressively say "fuck you" to anyone suggesting they need to wear a mask once the legal requirement is dropped.
With respect, telling someone that they have no right to make you wear a mask is not 'aggressive' per se. It's the law. So back off slapping that adverb please.
Secondly, refusing to wear a mask is not 'self-entitled'. That's incredibly patronising and supercilious of you. Some people cannot wear masks for medical reasons. Others don't wish to any longer because it is damaging to their mental health. I'm one of those. So stop hectoring others.
I bet you don't stick to the 30 mph speed limit at all times in built up areas?
This is turning into a dystopian Black Mirror episode where utter hypocrites feel it's their (self-entitled?!) right to lecture others.
The difference between the 30 mph - benefit for society - example and mask wearing is that one is illegal and the other isn't, or won't be very soon.
Yes, there's no need for fully vaccinated people to wear masks, or to feel bad about not doing so.
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Because I he mandates it the issue moves down to conductors and other front line workers to deal with.and without any threat of a fine / police backup it's pointless.
The issue is that you can't explain that in an interview as people will repeat the 5 seconds they want and remove the nuance.
This. We know there are a decent number of self-entitled people out there who will aggressively say "fuck you" to anyone suggesting they need to wear a mask once the legal requirement is dropped.
With respect, telling someone that they have no right to make you wear a mask is not 'aggressive' per se. It's the law. So back off slapping that adverb please.
Secondly, refusing to wear a mask is not 'self-entitled'. That's incredibly patronising and supercilious of you. Some people cannot wear masks for medical reasons. Others don't wish to any longer because it is damaging to their mental health. I'm one of those. So stop hectoring others.
I bet you don't stick to the 30 mph speed limit at all times in built up areas?
This is turning into a dystopian Black Mirror episode where utter hypocrites feel it's their (self-entitled?!) right to lecture others.
The difference between the 30 mph - benefit for society - example and mask wearing is that one is illegal and the other isn't, or won't be very soon.
Yes, there's no need for fully vaccinated people to wear masks, or to feel bad about not doing so.
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Because I he mandates it the issue moves down to conductors and other front line workers to deal with.and without any threat of a fine / police backup it's pointless.
The issue is that you can't explain that in an interview as people will repeat the 5 seconds they want and remove the nuance.
This. We know there are a decent number of self-entitled people out there who will aggressively say "fuck you" to anyone suggesting they need to wear a mask once the legal requirement is dropped.
There is going to be a lot of incidents in shops and on buses and other enclosed places where the angry entitled and the staff get into a row and that in the earlier phases of the pandemic is where the staff got assaulted.
We had a real problem with shop staff being verbally and physically abused and the bullshit from the government this last week is an open door for a repeat. That is why Burnham isn't mandating it on Metrolink. Most trams are unstaffed bar the driver anyway, so even if he did want to put his staff in the front line realistically they won't be there.
This is completely self contradictory nonsense.
If staff aren't there then how is asking the public to keep wearing a mask putting non existent staff on a line?
All you need to do is have signs and stickers etc up saying something like "Metrolink politely requests customers to wear a mask. Exemptions apply. Thank you for your cooperation."
Then leave it to the public, with the nudge there.
Good morning everyone. Or is it? My wife remarked to me earlier..... we both woke early ....... that these didn't seem to be a lot going right, either for us or around us!
Are you okay?
Thank you for asking. I think, TBH, getting old is the main problem. As far as I'm concerned, I've an old injury come back to bite me.
As for the world...... well!!!!
I'm sorry to hear that. Waking early repeatedly is tough. I hope you can snooze during the day perhaps?
And, agreed, as for the world ...
I often think the 1970's was a much happier time to grow up. I know there were issues and someone will doubtless feel it's their job to list them all here and explain why it was so awful back then but for me at the time, it wasn't. There was a LOT of freedom, something I've increasingly come to value the more it has been removed.
I don't mind waking early; I'm a natural lark. As an adult, always have been. Was very useful at one time as I could have an hour or so on the paperwork before people started wanting my presence somewhere or other!
And, on reflection, I agree, the 70's had a lot of good points, although no doubt someone here will remember the bad times.. I wasn't 'young'; I had my 40th birthday during that decade, and I remember being able to celebrate.
The best thing about the 70s about seven months before the end, May '79 iirc.
Really don’t understand what some people have against masks. It’s a painless way of reducing the probability of passing on something nasty to a fellow citizen. Seems eminently sensible during an ongoing pandemic.
By far the best documentary I have seen in several years was the BBC produced OJ Simpson, Made in America. It really brought out and explained the reasoning of the black members of the Jury with a clarity that no one else had. The black community of LA didn't just distrust the police, they hated them. They were a hostile, dangerous occupying force and they would give them nothing. No matter what. The George Floyd murder and the BLM led anger it generated fell on very fertile soil.
This is where the alienation of society from the police leads to. It is not where we want to go. Unlike @Leon I find @Cyclefree's piece timely. We are on a dangerous path and we are sleepwalking along it. I don't have much confidence that Priti Patel is the sort of Home Secretary who is going to wake us up.
I look at the police and it feels very familiar, like finance a few years ago - a group which thinks itself untouchable, with poor leadership, with serious systemic problems, rocketing from problem to problem with no clear idea how to stop them happening. There will be plenty of good people in it trying to do their best but without effective guidance, help and leadership, it's a bit hit and miss.
Three things were necessary before finance realised it needed to sort itself out:-
1. A near death experience. 2. Persistent pressure from outside bodies - regulators, governments, the press & shareholders - to sort themselves out. 3. Senior management who realised that they had to do focus on this and harness the goodwill of the many staff fed up with what they saw happening.
The police don't face any of this and we really don't, as @DavidL has said, want 1 to happen.
The pity of it is that we are letting down not just the victims of crime but also the many policemen who are trying to to do a difficult, dangerous and necessary job.
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Why not indeed? They surely have the right to make it a condition of travel (with suitable exemptions). I don't see any incompatibility between the withdrawal of the legal regulatory framework by the government and the need for the suppliers of services to give proper consideration to the risks to their staff and the fellow users of their services.
We have had posters here proudly announce that they are going to tell anyone who asks them to mask up to "f**k off". Presumably to the front line transport/waiting/shp staff who are making such requests. It's probably just the beer talking, but no need for such rudeness.
I'm teetotal. And yes I will tell anyone who insists I wear a mask to fuck off.
I will be telling any patient or relative who abuses our reception or nursing staff to go away. They will need to apologise and comply if they want to be seen.
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Why not indeed? They surely have the right to make it a condition of travel (with suitable exemptions). I don't see any incompatibility between the withdrawal of the legal regulatory framework by the government and the need for the suppliers of services to give proper consideration to the risks to their staff and the fellow users of their services.
We have had posters here proudly announce that they are going to tell anyone who asks them to mask up to "f**k off". Presumably to the front line transport/waiting/shp staff who are making such requests. It's probably just the beer talking, but no need for such rudeness.
I'm teetotal. And yes I will tell anyone who insists I wear a mask to fuck off.
Just to spell that out. I have been incredibly damaged by all this. My mental health has suffered appallingly. My sleep patterns have been all over the place, I have been signed off sick. The problem, as I've come to realise, isn't the virus itself any longer, it's people's reaction to it.
Because of our brilliant vaccines we are no longer living in a dangerous pandemic. But people think we are. Or think we will be. Actually the death rate is miniscule.
But we've transferred the pandemic fear (which a year ago was well-founded) to vigilantism of the worst and most hypocritical nature. If there has to be any thrust about telling others what to do, it should be to get vaccinated.
The law is the law. I don't have to wear a mask so I won't. And anyone who tells me otherwise can bog off.
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Why not indeed? They surely have the right to make it a condition of travel (with suitable exemptions). I don't see any incompatibility between the withdrawal of the legal regulatory framework by the government and the need for the suppliers of services to give proper consideration to the risks to their staff and the fellow users of their services.
We have had posters here proudly announce that they are going to tell anyone who asks them to mask up to "f**k off". Presumably to the front line transport/waiting/shp staff who are making such requests. It's probably just the beer talking, but no need for such rudeness.
I wouldn't do that but I certainly think people should mind their own business.
Anyone getting into others face and telling them what they should or should not wear within the law is a prat.
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Because I he mandates it the issue moves down to conductors and other front line workers to deal with.and without any threat of a fine / police backup it's pointless.
The issue is that you can't explain that in an interview as people will repeat the 5 seconds they want and remove the nuance.
This. We know there are a decent number of self-entitled people out there who will aggressively say "fuck you" to anyone suggesting they need to wear a mask once the legal requirement is dropped.
There is going to be a lot of incidents in shops and on buses and other enclosed places where the angry entitled and the staff get into a row and that in the earlier phases of the pandemic is where the staff got assaulted.
We had a real problem with shop staff being verbally and physically abused and the bullshit from the government this last week is an open door for a repeat. That is why Burnham isn't mandating it on Metrolink. Most trams are unstaffed bar the driver anyway, so even if he did want to put his staff in the front line realistically they won't be there.
This is completely self contradictory nonsense.
If staff aren't there then how is asking the public to keep wearing a mask putting non existent staff on a line?
All you need to do is have signs and stickers etc up saying something like "Metrolink politely requests customers to wear a mask. Exemptions apply. Thank you for your cooperation."
Then leave it to the public, with the nudge there.
It’s not the people that voluntarily wear a mask that you have to worry about, it’s the people that don’t.
Good morning everyone. Or is it? My wife remarked to me earlier..... we both woke early ....... that these didn't seem to be a lot going right, either for us or around us!
Are you okay?
Thank you for asking. I think, TBH, getting old is the main problem. As far as I'm concerned, I've an old injury come back to bite me.
As for the world...... well!!!!
I'm sorry to hear that. Waking early repeatedly is tough. I hope you can snooze during the day perhaps?
And, agreed, as for the world ...
I often think the 1970's was a much happier time to grow up. I know there were issues and someone will doubtless feel it's their job to list them all here and explain why it was so awful back then but for me at the time, it wasn't. There was a LOT of freedom, something I've increasingly come to value the more it has been removed.
I don't mind waking early; I'm a natural lark. As an adult, always have been. Was very useful at one time as I could have an hour or so on the paperwork before people started wanting my presence somewhere or other!
And, on reflection, I agree, the 70's had a lot of good points, although no doubt someone here will remember the bad times.. I wasn't 'young'; I had my 40th birthday during that decade, and I remember being able to celebrate.
The best thing about the 70s about seven months before the end, May '79 iirc.
Feb 74 was pretty good too! Strangely, while I wasn't happy with the election result in 79 it did bring an end to an unstable time.
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Because I he mandates it the issue moves down to conductors and other front line workers to deal with.and without any threat of a fine / police backup it's pointless.
The issue is that you can't explain that in an interview as people will repeat the 5 seconds they want and remove the nuance.
This. We know there are a decent number of self-entitled people out there who will aggressively say "fuck you" to anyone suggesting they need to wear a mask once the legal requirement is dropped.
With respect, telling someone that they have no right to make you wear a mask is not 'aggressive' per se. It's the law. So back off slapping that adverb please.
Secondly, refusing to wear a mask is not 'self-entitled'. That's incredibly patronising and supercilious of you. Some people cannot wear masks for medical reasons. Others don't wish to any longer because it is damaging to their mental health. I'm one of those. So stop hectoring others.
I bet you don't stick to the 30 mph speed limit at all times in built up areas?
This is turning into a dystopian Black Mirror episode where utter hypocrites feel it's their (self-entitled?!) right to lecture others.
The difference between the 30 mph - benefit for society - example and mask wearing is that one is illegal and the other isn't, or won't be very soon.
Yes, there's no need for fully vaccinated people to wear masks, or to feel bad about not doing so.
Exactly
Whatever you may think. People like me will continue to do so in public places. It seems strange , but coming to terms with being close to a lot of people is a bit scary after spending over a year doing the exact opposite. It's going to take some time to feel comfortable again and I shall continue to be wary for the foreseeable future especially if R is >1
The Grand Old Party has realised that letting people vote enables people to vote for the other party. So they are trying very hard to place blocks on voting where the undesirables live so that fewer of them will vote.
Democracy? Naah.
The Democrats' behaviour reminds me of my brother (and occasionally me) when we were younger: "I'm losing, so I'm not playing any more" .
Bad people exist. Many more people are getting away with stuff, and don't get caught, @Foxy alludes to this. They can even exist in HR departments. I am not convinced there is a clear line between good and bad, or that the answer to this problem is to allow people to exercise their judgement a bit more in rooting out evil. I am more of the view expressed by a famous writer once that the line between good and evil is a shifting one that exists within all human hearts, and we should conduct our affairs accordingly.
I agree with the last sentence. A good leader will realise this and manage accordingly. But I strongly feel that we all need to learn to exercise judgment more. Too many people - certainly in finance - rely on procedures without applying any sort of judgment at all and it can lead to some astonishingly bad decisions.
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Why not indeed? They surely have the right to make it a condition of travel (with suitable exemptions). I don't see any incompatibility between the withdrawal of the legal regulatory framework by the government and the need for the suppliers of services to give proper consideration to the risks to their staff and the fellow users of their services.
We have had posters here proudly announce that they are going to tell anyone who asks them to mask up to "f**k off". Presumably to the front line transport/waiting/shp staff who are making such requests. It's probably just the beer talking, but no need for such rudeness.
I wouldn't do that but I certainly think people should mind their own business.
Anyone getting into others face and telling them what they should or should not wear within the law is a prat.
And you wonder why Andy Burnham isn't doing anything.
The one thing I can safely say is that I won't be rushing to use public transport in the near future (until this wave burns out). If I need to go to London or elsewhere it will be by car not train. likewise public transport.
I thought it was going to be about "freedom day"....
Same data but on a log axis - now you can see that hospital admissions are now growing at almost the same rate as cases. Roughly doubling every 11 days. V unsettling. Especially given cases have further to rise. So what next? https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1414658909239918595/photo/1
Ummm
I'm not sure that's unsettling at all. Admissions seem to lag cases by a very short period, and cases are flattening off right now.
Unless you think that admissions will continue to rise, uncoupled from flattening (or declining) case numbers. Which would be an odd attitude.
The government are forecasting an explosion in cases. 100k new cases a day says Javid. Which means worrying numbers in hospital does it not.
Good for them.
Case growth is slowing, ZOE reports an absolute decline in the number of unvaccinated people with Covid, more and more people are double-vaccinated, and schools are about to go on holiday. (If nothing else, the last will dramatically lower the number of people *testing* positive for CV19.)
It may be that cases reach 100,000 per day, but my money is against it.
Numbers have been stuck on 30-35K for the last 6 days. It would be good if this proves to be the peak.
And in the 6 days before that they were stuck in the range 24-28K And in the 23rd to the 27th they were stuck in the range 14-18K And from the 9th to the 15th they were stuck in the range 7500-8000 And at the end of may they were stuck in the range of 3100-4100 and had definitely peaked.
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Because I he mandates it the issue moves down to conductors and other front line workers to deal with.and without any threat of a fine / police backup it's pointless.
The issue is that you can't explain that in an interview as people will repeat the 5 seconds they want and remove the nuance.
This. We know there are a decent number of self-entitled people out there who will aggressively say "fuck you" to anyone suggesting they need to wear a mask once the legal requirement is dropped.
There is going to be a lot of incidents in shops and on buses and other enclosed places where the angry entitled and the staff get into a row and that in the earlier phases of the pandemic is where the staff got assaulted.
We had a real problem with shop staff being verbally and physically abused and the bullshit from the government this last week is an open door for a repeat. That is why Burnham isn't mandating it on Metrolink. Most trams are unstaffed bar the driver anyway, so even if he did want to put his staff in the front line realistically they won't be there.
This is completely self contradictory nonsense.
If staff aren't there then how is asking the public to keep wearing a mask putting non existent staff on a line?
All you need to do is have signs and stickers etc up saying something like "Metrolink politely requests customers to wear a mask. Exemptions apply. Thank you for your cooperation."
Then leave it to the public, with the nudge there.
It’s not the people that voluntarily wear a mask that you have to worry about, it’s the people that don’t.
Not true.
This isn't a binary divide. The public isn't divided into those who definitely will and those who definitely won't, and you're not going to get those who definitely won't wear one to do so. They're already not doing so today claiming entirely legally that they're exempt.
There is a group in the middle who might or might not wear one. Those certainly could be nudged into doing so if you wish to nudge them.
But if you want to rely upon everyone wearing one you're on a hiding to nothing. It's already not happening today and it certainly won't be when it's quite rightly no longer legally mandated.
Burnham wriggling on R4 - if mask wearing is so important why not mandate it on Manchester trams? Passes the buck to the government.
Why not indeed? They surely have the right to make it a condition of travel (with suitable exemptions). I don't see any incompatibility between the withdrawal of the legal regulatory framework by the government and the need for the suppliers of services to give proper consideration to the risks to their staff and the fellow users of their services.
We have had posters here proudly announce that they are going to tell anyone who asks them to mask up to "f**k off". Presumably to the front line transport/waiting/shp staff who are making such requests. It's probably just the beer talking, but no need for such rudeness.
I'm teetotal. And yes I will tell anyone who insists I wear a mask to fuck off.
I will be telling any patient or relative who abuses our reception or nursing staff to go away. They will need to apologise and comply if they want to be seen.
Our practice was featured on ITV Wales about the extraordinary abuse their staff, the doctors and nurses are receiving every day and it just makes one despair
I have written a letter to the practice thanking them for their excellent processes and care and asking them to report the abuse and reject them from the practice
Bad people exist. Many more people are getting away with stuff, and don't get caught, @Foxy alludes to this. They can even exist in HR departments. I am not convinced there is a clear line between good and bad, or that the answer to this problem is to allow people to exercise their judgement a bit more in rooting out evil. I am more of the view expressed by a famous writer once that the line between good and evil is a shifting one that exists within all human hearts, and we should conduct our affairs accordingly.
I agree with the last sentence. A good leader will realise this and manage accordingly. But I strongly feel that we all need to learn to exercise judgment more. Too many people - certainly in finance - rely on procedures without applying any sort of judgment at all and it can lead to some astonishingly bad decisions.
Issue with that argument is we have a set of procedures - if you don't follow them you are out the door...
And most people need the money enough that they won't risk doing anything about it - it's only since I got f*** you money that life became easier and most people will only get into that position very close to retirement.
Comments
I think Medicine and Teaching need it too. We cannot afford to lose as many good staff as we do.
PS. Great Primo Levi reference in the title. A book that I need to get back to. He was such a great dissector of the moral dilemmas of resistance and collaboration.
The original tweet has gone globally viral - 12m views. What does it show? At first glance it is England fans randomly beating up whoever
https://twitter.com/KyleJGlen/status/1414294866704617486?s=20
But it isn't. It is actually England fans kicking the shit out of "fans" who have just broken in without tickets, thus threatening a Hillsborough style stampede. That explains why some of them shout "do your fucking job" at the stewards at the end of the clip
Very different from that perspective. These so called hooligans might have saved lives
What is clear is this: there was a terrible failure of security at Wembley. We are lucky no one died
Don't be arseholes please people.
I suddenly have zero sympathy for the twits being slapped
There is more video evidence from outside the ground, revealing that is it exactly the same people who get a shoeing indoors
ALways tricky to work out exactly what is going on in the USA as the northeastern seaboard was very hard hit in previous waves, along with a few roughly random red states.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-56404256
They should be applicable at both an individual level and a team level. The culture and pressure to form protective cliques or groups, which is a more pernicious development than the rougue individual probably stem from the same root causes.
@Foxy may have made me more understanding of the causes of police going off on what csn be seen as self protective but distrucive tangents.
Greensill Capital paid Cameron salary of more than $1m a year
Former prime minister said to have made in excess of $40,000 a day from collapsed finance firm
Nice work if you can get it.
And we're still reporting case numbers and getting people freaked out. The same with the U.S. now.
Case numbers don't matter if deaths remain miniscule, which they do. Of 150 deaths in the UK only 1 will even vaguely be related to covid. 450 people died of cancer in the UK yesterday. Perspective is now badly needed.
The main message we need to drive home is getting everyone vaccinated. We should be vaccinating our children too: a terrible mistake by the UK.
Does anyone have confidence in the Home Secretary to appoint a reforming Commissioner who is up to the task ?
The Met’s own description of its governance procedures makes interesting, though unconvincing reading.
https://www.met.police.uk/police-forces/metropolitan-police/areas/about-us/about-the-met/governance/
Robert Mark was a very long time ago...
I know how much "advisors" in the City get paid, with banks and funds taking advantage of their Rolodex, their draw at conferences, and yes, their occasional insights.
It's not $1m/year.
Plus massive quantities of share options.
Cameron was a fool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfyIW8oraUk
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57814213
It's absolutely clear to most everyone (not Leon and HYUFD) that the long slide is underway.
Give out heroin for free and ...
I think that this is an increasing crisis in our country. Our police forces are becoming more remote, more apart, less trustworthy and less respected. We have the same problem in Scotland where the frankly laughably low level of accountability achieved in regional forces has disappeared completely under the behemoth that is Police Scotland. The political classes have lost faith in them following the disgraceful plebgate events. The middle classes have lost faith in them. We are appalled by the Rotherham saga, this Everard murder and a never ending drip feed of negative stories connected with the police neglecting so many kinds of crime in favour of politically charged nonsense.
These are the seeds from which defund police movements started in America. It could happen here too unless someone gets a grip. It could happen to the Met. Just maybe, it should.
Or is it? My wife remarked to me earlier..... we both woke early ....... that these didn't seem to be a lot going right, either for us or around us!
Thought-provoking piece, again, from Ms Cyclefree, of course. Nothing, as Julie Andrews sang, comes from nothing.Get away with something, and one gets away with a little bit more next time.
Unless one either realises oneself, or is brought up short by someone else!
The issue is that you can't explain that in an interview as people will repeat the 5 seconds they want and remove the nuance.
As for the world...... well!!!!
This is where the alienation of society from the police leads to. It is not where we want to go. Unlike @Leon I find @Cyclefree's piece timely. We are on a dangerous path and we are sleepwalking along it. I don't have much confidence that Priti Patel is the sort of Home Secretary who is going to wake us up.
So people will feel strange right now.
Ride with it. All will be well again before you know it.
And, agreed, as for the world ...
I often think the 1970's was a much happier time to grow up. I know there were issues and someone will doubtless feel it's their job to list them all here and explain why it was so awful back then but for me at the time, it wasn't. There was a LOT of freedom, something I've increasingly come to value the more it has been removed.
If he wanted to, he could mandate it - and some people would wear it because its mandated even without the threat of draconian police state actions.
Already today people aren't wearing the mask quite often claiming they're "exempt" and how often does that end up in a fine / police backup?
Democracy? Naah.
There is going to be a lot of incidents in shops and on buses and other enclosed places where the angry entitled and the staff get into a row and that in the earlier phases of the pandemic is where the staff got assaulted.
We had a real problem with shop staff being verbally and physically abused and the bullshit from the government this last week is an open door for a repeat. That is why Burnham isn't mandating it on Metrolink. Most trams are unstaffed bar the driver anyway, so even if he did want to put his staff in the front line realistically they won't be there.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-nightclub-owner-shuns-governments-covid-passport-ahead-of-reopening-12354631
Whatever Mr Marks likes to tell you, nightclubs are petri dishes
And, on reflection, I agree, the 70's had a lot of good points, although no doubt someone here will remember the bad times.. I wasn't 'young'; I had my 40th birthday during that decade, and I remember being able to celebrate.
Secondly, refusing to wear a mask is not 'self-entitled'. That's incredibly patronising and supercilious of you. Some people cannot wear masks for medical reasons. Others don't wish to any longer because it is damaging to their mental health. I'm one of those. So stop hectoring others.
I bet you don't stick to the 30 mph speed limit at all times in built up areas?
This is turning into a dystopian Black Mirror episode where utter hypocrites feel it's their (self-entitled?!) right to lecture others.
The difference between the 30 mph - benefit for society - example and mask wearing is that one is illegal and the other isn't, or won't be very soon.
Mr. L, aye. The police will kneel for BLM. And ignore a mob of thugs who intimidated a teacher into hiding. And their leader is keener on anti-white discrimination than rooting out the bad eggs in her own force.
I should be the sort of person who's right behind the police. But what happened in Rotherham and many other places, and the examples mentioned above, don't exactly encourage that.
Hope that helps.
It’s appalling we stand by and ignore it.
If staff aren't there then how is asking the public to keep wearing a mask putting non existent staff on a line?
All you need to do is have signs and stickers etc up saying something like "Metrolink politely requests customers to wear a mask. Exemptions apply. Thank you for your cooperation."
Then leave it to the public, with the nudge there.
Three things were necessary before finance realised it needed to sort itself out:-
1. A near death experience.
2. Persistent pressure from outside bodies - regulators, governments, the press & shareholders - to sort themselves out.
3. Senior management who realised that they had to do focus on this and harness the goodwill of the many staff fed up with what they saw happening.
The police don't face any of this and we really don't, as @DavidL has said, want 1 to happen.
The pity of it is that we are letting down not just the victims of crime but also the many policemen who are trying to to do a difficult, dangerous and necessary job.
Because of our brilliant vaccines we are no longer living in a dangerous pandemic. But people think we are. Or think we will be. Actually the death rate is miniscule.
But we've transferred the pandemic fear (which a year ago was well-founded) to vigilantism of the worst and most hypocritical nature. If there has to be any thrust about telling others what to do, it should be to get vaccinated.
The law is the law. I don't have to wear a mask so I won't. And anyone who tells me otherwise can bog off.
Anyone getting into others face and telling them what they should or should not wear within the law is a prat.
The one thing I can safely say is that I won't be rushing to use public transport in the near future (until this wave burns out). If I need to go to London or elsewhere it will be by car not train. likewise public transport.
And in the 23rd to the 27th they were stuck in the range 14-18K
And from the 9th to the 15th they were stuck in the range 7500-8000
And at the end of may they were stuck in the range of 3100-4100 and had definitely peaked.
This isn't a binary divide. The public isn't divided into those who definitely will and those who definitely won't, and you're not going to get those who definitely won't wear one to do so. They're already not doing so today claiming entirely legally that they're exempt.
There is a group in the middle who might or might not wear one. Those certainly could be nudged into doing so if you wish to nudge them.
But if you want to rely upon everyone wearing one you're on a hiding to nothing. It's already not happening today and it certainly won't be when it's quite rightly no longer legally mandated.
I have written a letter to the practice thanking them for their excellent processes and care and asking them to report the abuse and reject them from the practice
And most people need the money enough that they won't risk doing anything about it - it's only since I got f*** you money that life became easier and most people will only get into that position very close to retirement.