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BoJo’s “vaccine bounce” seems to be over but Starmer remains in negative territory – politicalbettin

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited July 12 in General
imageBoJo’s “vaccine bounce” seems to be over but Starmer remains in negative territory – politicalbetting.com

A little bit later than usual we now have the leader approval ratings from the latest Opinium poll and the trend charts for Johnson and Starmer are above.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • LeonLeon Posts: 9,050
    Yay
  • LeonLeon Posts: 9,050
    Firsht?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 66,703
    Ah, politics, how I've missed you.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 9,050
    Schecond?!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 38,440
    I do think that Boris has been hit by the apparent indecisiveness of his position re freedom day etc. He may get a boost after things are clarified today, we shall see.

    SKS has the same problem: what's he for and what does he want? Other than being PM I really am not clear and I pay more attention than most. Hence the large don't know figures.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,031
    I think the next few weeks will probably demonstrate that the government has no clear idea of where it is going on Covid. The electors will probably not turn to Labour, though they may turn to the Lib Dems in the South. Increasing voter apathy may mean that the next election result will be determined by the effectiveness of each parties GOTV operation. This, in turn, is governed by the relative enthusiasm of party activists.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 58,366
    8% lead for Boris in approval ratings over Starmer.

    Is Starmer capable of turning that around. Perhaps that could be the next QTWAIN header?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 66,703
    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    I must say, the racist tweets I saw quoted by Sunder Katwala this morning really don't sound like they were written by English people.

    If you wanted to sow division and hatred in a country, this is the kind of thing you would do, isn't it?

    I think its been established before that even a lot of things that seem like they must be by bots, for example, often are not. Simplest explanation is usually the best, and conspiracy is not the simplest.
    It was probably said by people.

    Just not by English people.

    Look at the language. English people don't speak like that.

    What proof do you have the perpetrators were English people...?
    A New Age airhead has defaced a mural of Marcus Rashford with a howl of meaningless psychobabble. No proper Englishman could utter a sentence like that:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-57803161
    It will be interesting to see where the media / commentators take this - most media reports are going for the 'this is so offensive we have blocked it out of the picture and won't discuss the content with you' method
    I absolutely detest that kind of thing. I never know how outraged I'm supposed to be if you won't report or show the actual thing that has caused outrage. How I am supposed to know what a proportionate response would be, whether an apology etc is sufficient?
    Leon said:

    Firsht?

    Leon said:

    Schecond?!

    Sounds like counting off drinks.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 37,817
    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image
  • LeonLeon Posts: 9,050
    To combine the themes, this is a remarkably unwise tweet by Angela Rayner

    “Let me be clear. The Prime Minister and the Home Secretary gave license to the racists who booed the England players and are now racially abusing England players.

    @BorisJohnson and @pritipatel are like arsonists complaining about a fire they poured petrol on. Total hypocrites.”

    https://twitter.com/angelarayner/status/1414498287097454592?s=21

    I’d say she is drunk but it was posted at 9am. What is she thinking?

    This marvelous football team that was meant to unite us is going to leave us much more embittered, and racially divided, and both sides are stoking it. We are now France, but without the World Cups as consolation
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 38,440
    Fenman said:

    I think the next few weeks will probably demonstrate that the government has no clear idea of where it is going on Covid. The electors will probably not turn to Labour, though they may turn to the Lib Dems in the South. Increasing voter apathy may mean that the next election result will be determined by the effectiveness of each parties GOTV operation. This, in turn, is governed by the relative enthusiasm of party activists.

    I disagree. I think the government is going through the worst of Covid right now. The number of new cases per day has probably already peaked and the rolling average will go negative within a week. When it does Boris's apparently bold choice will be seen to be right. They just need to hold their nerve for another week.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 9,050

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    Two famous and intelligent writers. A pure example of Strasbourg Syndrome. 10/10
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 66,703
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign
    So you're saying she is a liar making a false apology, rather than that she feels she made an error in her comment?

    An interesting way to stick up for a party colleague.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 18,926
    It's somewhat ironic that one of the only reasons I use Twitter is when the MSM won't show me something:

    https://twitter.com/TheFergusonWay/status/1414493674377859073/photo/1
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 66,703
    edited July 12
    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    Two famous and intelligent writers. A pure example of Strasbourg Syndrome. 10/10
    Given how badly the Tories apparently want to privitise the NHS, and what they take as an excuse to do so, I have to ask why it is not 100% private already.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002
    At the moment the polling suggests we are heading for a 1992 style result, the Tories would be re elected but with a smaller majority than in 2019
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    I assume he is also doing his bit to encourage more people to get double vaccinated to avoid that?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 29,849

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    How can intelligent people be so stupid?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 38,440
    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    Two famous and intelligent writers. A pure example of Strasbourg Syndrome. 10/10
    That is just so deeply demented. If I ever post such rot about anyone, even Gordon Brown, I would hope my friends would tell me to sober up and shape up.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 16,555

    8% lead for Boris in approval ratings over Starmer.

    Is Starmer capable of turning that around. Perhaps that could be the next QTWAIN header?

    9% lead in Johnson's disapproval too - he's just better known AND more Marmite. It's an interesting question which matters most. Approval rating is presumably correlated with VI. Disapproval rating is presumably correlated with tactical voting against you. Thus arguably Corbyn did pretty well in 2017 because he had high approval ratings, but didn't win as there were so many people who disliked him.

    At present it's pretty much a score draw. We would be unwise to bet on it staying that way by 2023-4.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 58,366
    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    Two famous and intelligent writers. A pure example of Strasbourg Syndrome. 10/10
    Nothing to do with Strasbourg, just your typical leftwing luvvies being deranged and hating Tories.

    The Tories want to kill the poor and destroy the NHS has been a meme of the far left since long before Brexit.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 42,262
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign
    So you're saying she is a liar making a false apology, rather than that she feels she made an error in her comment?

    An interesting way to stick up for a party colleague.
    He can never say the word sorry and now he is throwing a colleague to the wolves

    She has made a genuine apology and demonstrates to @HYUFD how it is done but he is too pig headed and stupid to realise it
  • LeonLeon Posts: 9,050

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    This is genuinely fascinating. And merits proper scrutiny

    Let’s focus on Pullman. He’s a clearly brilliant man, who has written wonderful books. It may be aimed at older kids, but the Dark Materials trilogy is a mature, beautiful meditation on faith, and history, and childhood, done with grace and flair. And it has a driving plot. It is deservedly a global bestseller

    And yet. Someone this intelligent honestly believes Boris Johnson WANTS the NHS to collapse. An utterly preposterous thought. How can he think that?

    A toxic cocktail of Brexit and social media has sent him mad. That’s my only explanation. I welcome others
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 11,262
    Sean_F said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    How can intelligent people be so stupid?
    You can tell it has hit the level of conspiracy theory, because it doesn't even make any sense. If the over 65s all died, I am pretty certain Starmer would be in pole position for the election (but I am sure someone on here could confirm).
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,006
    HYUFD said:

    At the moment the polling suggests we are heading for a 1992 style result, the Tories would be re elected but with a smaller majority than in 2019

    Indeed a highly plausible outcome in 2023/2024.

    LAB still don't look like a plausible alternative government. Starmer offers nothing but criticism and negativity, no alternative direction.

    The government is a bit useless but for the time being the voters don't trust any alternatives.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 20,495
    FtPt
    Alistair said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    I must say, the racist tweets I saw quoted by Sunder Katwala this morning really don't sound like they were written by English people.

    If you wanted to sow division and hatred in a country, this is the kind of thing you would do, isn't it?

    I think its been established before that even a lot of things that seem like they must be by bots, for example, often are not. Simplest explanation is usually the best, and conspiracy is not the simplest.
    It was probably said by people.

    Just not by English people.

    Look at the language. English people don't speak like that.

    What proof do you have the perpetrators were English people...?
    A New Age airhead has defaced a mural of Marcus Rashford with a howl of meaningless psychobabble. No proper Englishman could utter a sentence like that:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-57803161
    (For the record, Horse, yes obvs I condemn this).

    However it will be interesting to see where the media / commentators take this - most media reports are going for the 'this is so offensive we have blocked it out of the picture and won't discuss the content with you' method, as the Today programme used to do before they spent 6 minutes discussing how outrageous twitter had become.

    'Racially aggravated damage' ?
    https://theathletic.com/news/marcus-rashford-euro-2020-england/R45W1PIU6IHR

    It is a picture of a cock 'n' balls.



    I can see them going for RAD due to indirect reasons, however.
    Given how much of the mural is currently covered up I don't think that is the graffiti in question.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 58,366

    8% lead for Boris in approval ratings over Starmer.

    Is Starmer capable of turning that around. Perhaps that could be the next QTWAIN header?

    9% lead in Johnson's disapproval too - he's just better known AND more Marmite. It's an interesting question which matters most. Approval rating is presumably correlated with VI. Disapproval rating is presumably correlated with tactical voting against you. Thus arguably Corbyn did pretty well in 2017 because he had high approval ratings, but didn't win as there were so many people who disliked him.

    At present it's pretty much a score draw. We would be unwise to bet on it staying that way by 2023-4.
    I agree with Ben at IPSOS MORI and OGH that it is actual approval that matters most.

    To quote OGH "in terms of predicting electoral outcomes it's the proportion saying they are satisfied that is key. Whether they "don't know" or are not satisfied is irrelevant - they are not ready to be positive."
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 13,207
    I reckon the chances of NHS privatisation receded by a generation over the past 18 months.
    Indeed the recent roll backs of the Lansley reforms suggest an opposite direction of travel.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 894
    IMO these next few months are key and I don't think they can be downplayed.

    They say 'Oppositions don't win Elections, Governments Lose Them' well IF these next few months are horrendous following the decisions announced today then you might well see that happen.

    On the flip side if the vaccines continue to do their job and the country as a whole remains cautious but sensible, the NHS doesn't struggle and public confidence in the decision making at the top is there then you could see a big bounce at the next election.

    These next few months are massive.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 9,050
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    Two famous and intelligent writers. A pure example of Strasbourg Syndrome. 10/10
    That is just so deeply demented. If I ever post such rot about anyone, even Gordon Brown, I would hope my friends would tell me to sober up and shape up.
    Likewise
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 58,366
    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    This is genuinely fascinating. And merits proper scrutiny

    Let’s focus on Pullman. He’s a clearly brilliant man, who has written wonderful books. It may be aimed at older kids, but the Dark Materials trilogy is a mature, beautiful meditation on faith, and history, and childhood, done with grace and flair. And it has a driving plot. It is deservedly a global bestseller

    And yet. Someone this intelligent honestly believes Boris Johnson WANTS the NHS to collapse. An utterly preposterous thought. How can he think that?

    A toxic cocktail of Brexit and social media has sent him mad. That’s my only explanation. I welcome others
    Leftwing luvvie hates Tories.

    Next breaking news: water is wet. More at 11.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 9,050

    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    This is genuinely fascinating. And merits proper scrutiny

    Let’s focus on Pullman. He’s a clearly brilliant man, who has written wonderful books. It may be aimed at older kids, but the Dark Materials trilogy is a mature, beautiful meditation on faith, and history, and childhood, done with grace and flair. And it has a driving plot. It is deservedly a global bestseller

    And yet. Someone this intelligent honestly believes Boris Johnson WANTS the NHS to collapse. An utterly preposterous thought. How can he think that?

    A toxic cocktail of Brexit and social media has sent him mad. That’s my only explanation. I welcome others
    Leftwing luvvie hates Tories.

    Next breaking news: water is wet. More at 11.
    No, this is a new and fascinating level of Stupid Intelligentsia
  • CookieCookie Posts: 3,796
    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    This is genuinely fascinating. And merits proper scrutiny

    Let’s focus on Pullman. He’s a clearly brilliant man, who has written wonderful books. It may be aimed at older kids, but the Dark Materials trilogy is a mature, beautiful meditation on faith, and history, and childhood, done with grace and flair. And it has a driving plot. It is deservedly a global bestseller

    And yet. Someone this intelligent honestly believes Boris Johnson WANTS the NHS to collapse. An utterly preposterous thought. How can he think that?

    A toxic cocktail of Brexit and social media has sent him mad. That’s my only explanation. I welcome others
    This is what happens when people's only news sources are the Guardian and the BBC.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 11,744
    FPT
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign as that Yougov polling data shows
    Lets be clear. 47% of Tory voters disagreed with feeding hungry kids. A significant number of whom are the same WWC they complain are discriminated against by taking the knee.

    Same with the education committee Tories horrified at the poor attainment of WWC pupils yet seem to think that repeatedly voting to reduce funding for the schools they go to, repeatedly attacking teachers and exams (too easy) and voting to keep them dirt poor (no we won't keep feeding them in the holidays, we can't afford it).

    I would have more respect for them if they were open about it. We don't like poor people and won't pay for them. The likes of Ben Bradley get mocked when they say poor people will spend handout cash on drugs but at least he is open. the rest are frit.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 58,366
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    This is genuinely fascinating. And merits proper scrutiny

    Let’s focus on Pullman. He’s a clearly brilliant man, who has written wonderful books. It may be aimed at older kids, but the Dark Materials trilogy is a mature, beautiful meditation on faith, and history, and childhood, done with grace and flair. And it has a driving plot. It is deservedly a global bestseller

    And yet. Someone this intelligent honestly believes Boris Johnson WANTS the NHS to collapse. An utterly preposterous thought. How can he think that?

    A toxic cocktail of Brexit and social media has sent him mad. That’s my only explanation. I welcome others
    Leftwing luvvie hates Tories.

    Next breaking news: water is wet. More at 11.
    No, this is a new and fascinating level of Stupid Intelligentsia
    We've had this level of "debate" from luvvies for decades. Today its Pullman, a decade ago it was Tony Robinson.

    The only thing that's new is that Twitter lets the loudest mouths get amplified and puts people in a feedback loop of having their own views echoed back to them.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 42,918
    Leon said:

    To combine the themes, this is a remarkably unwise tweet by Angela Rayner

    “Let me be clear. The Prime Minister and the Home Secretary gave license to the racists who booed the England players and are now racially abusing England players.

    @BorisJohnson and @pritipatel are like arsonists complaining about a fire they poured petrol on. Total hypocrites.”

    https://twitter.com/angelarayner/status/1414498287097454592?s=21

    I’d say she is drunk but it was posted at 9am. What is she thinking?

    This marvelous football team that was meant to unite us is going to leave us much more embittered, and racially divided, and both sides are stoking it. We are now France, but without the World Cups as consolation

    It's a common theme amongst the Left, who are desperate to politicise it.

    And they have the audacity of accusing the Conservatives of being the ones prosecuting a culture war.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 13,207
    jonny83 said:

    IMO these next few months are key and I don't think they can be downplayed.

    They say 'Oppositions don't win Elections, Governments Lose Them' well IF these next few months are horrendous following the decisions announced today then you might well see that happen.

    On the flip side if the vaccines continue to do their job and the country as a whole remains cautious but sensible, the NHS doesn't struggle and public confidence in the decision making at the top is there then you could see a big bounce at the next election.

    These next few months are massive.

    It's the economy from here on in.
    On that we simply don't know.
    There clearly is pent up demand. A Roaring Twenties is possible.
    However, so is disappointing growth as folk pay down debt, shortages and inflation all at once.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002
    edited July 12

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign
    So you're saying she is a liar making a false apology, rather than that she feels she made an error in her comment?

    An interesting way to stick up for a party colleague.
    He can never say the word sorry and now he is throwing a colleague to the wolves

    She has made a genuine apology and demonstrates to @HYUFD how it is done but he is too pig headed and stupid to realise it
    I am not going to apologise for holding a view most of my fellow Tory voters hold ie they opposed Rashford's campaign, yes it was a but of a cheap comment last night but unlike you I do not always give in to the left while huffing and puffing about how awful Boris is and then voting for him anyway!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 62,763

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    "It's so puzzling to see novelists lose any empathetic ability when it comes to politics. They'd never write a cartoon baddie character like this and yet think it's plausible in real politicians. Ironic that @Dominic2306 portrait far more nuanced."

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1414550606996508674?s=20
  • eekeek Posts: 13,645
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    This is genuinely fascinating. And merits proper scrutiny

    Let’s focus on Pullman. He’s a clearly brilliant man, who has written wonderful books. It may be aimed at older kids, but the Dark Materials trilogy is a mature, beautiful meditation on faith, and history, and childhood, done with grace and flair. And it has a driving plot. It is deservedly a global bestseller

    And yet. Someone this intelligent honestly believes Boris Johnson WANTS the NHS to collapse. An utterly preposterous thought. How can he think that?

    A toxic cocktail of Brexit and social media has sent him mad. That’s my only explanation. I welcome others
    This is what happens when people's only news sources are the Guardian and the BBC.
    This is what happens (or a variation of it) when people don't grasp they are in an echo chamber.

    And for most people, that is what they get in social media - a viewpoint that initially matches their viewpoint that eventually sends them more or more extreme.

  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,570
    edited July 12
    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    This is genuinely fascinating. And merits proper scrutiny

    Let’s focus on Pullman. He’s a clearly brilliant man, who has written wonderful books. It may be aimed at older kids, but the Dark Materials trilogy is a mature, beautiful meditation on faith, and history, and childhood, done with grace and flair. And it has a driving plot. It is deservedly a global bestseller

    And yet. Someone this intelligent honestly believes Boris Johnson WANTS the NHS to collapse. An utterly preposterous thought. How can he think that?

    A toxic cocktail of Brexit and social media has sent him mad. That’s my only explanation. I welcome others
    I think you could make a fairly cogent argument that the NHS has, actually, collapsed anyway. 13 million forecast to be in line for treatment. Wait weeks for a photocall with your GP. A&E overwhelmed because there are no alternatives.

    If we locked down to save the NHS, in fact we failed. We didn't save the NHS. It collapsed anyway. It folded up like a deck chair in a gale.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 42,918
    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    This is genuinely fascinating. And merits proper scrutiny

    Let’s focus on Pullman. He’s a clearly brilliant man, who has written wonderful books. It may be aimed at older kids, but the Dark Materials trilogy is a mature, beautiful meditation on faith, and history, and childhood, done with grace and flair. And it has a driving plot. It is deservedly a global bestseller

    And yet. Someone this intelligent honestly believes Boris Johnson WANTS the NHS to collapse. An utterly preposterous thought. How can he think that?

    A toxic cocktail of Brexit and social media has sent him mad. That’s my only explanation. I welcome others
    I think people emote on Twitter - it's that sort of platform, perfect for unfiltered reactive venting - but people take what they say literally, and then hold them to account for it.

    It's dangerous.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign as that Yougov polling data shows
    Lets be clear. 47% of Tory voters disagreed with feeding hungry kids. A significant number of whom are the same WWC they complain are discriminated against by taking the knee.

    Same with the education committee Tories horrified at the poor attainment of WWC pupils yet seem to think that repeatedly voting to reduce funding for the schools they go to, repeatedly attacking teachers and exams (too easy) and voting to keep them dirt poor (no we won't keep feeding them in the holidays, we can't afford it).

    I would have more respect for them if they were open about it. We don't like poor people and won't pay for them. The likes of Ben Bradley get mocked when they say poor people will spend handout cash on drugs but at least he is open. the rest are frit.
    It was only free school meals in the holidays they opposed not free school meals in term time when at school, I support that but in the holidays parents get benefits to feed their children if out of work or on a low income
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 58,366
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign
    So you're saying she is a liar making a false apology, rather than that she feels she made an error in her comment?

    An interesting way to stick up for a party colleague.
    He can never say the word sorry and now he is throwing a colleague to the wolves

    She has made a genuine apology and demonstrates to @HYUFD how it is done but he is too pig headed and stupid to realise it
    I am not going to apologise for holding a view most of my fellow Tory voters hold ie they opposed Rashford's campaign, yes it was a but of a cheap comment but unlike you I do not always give in to the left while huffing and puffing about how awful Boris is and then voting for him anyway!
    Since you normally have an opinion poll to back whatever viewpoint you want, even if other polls say differently, have you got an opinion poll showing most Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign?

    Or are you making that up?

    This Tory voter supported his campaign and called for the government to u-turn on this site before they did. Which is funny given how often I'm farcically accused of being a "fanboy" or even "CCHQ". 🙄
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,204

    8% lead for Boris in approval ratings over Starmer.

    Is Starmer capable of turning that around. Perhaps that could be the next QTWAIN header?

    9% lead in Johnson's disapproval too - he's just better known AND more Marmite. It's an interesting question which matters most. Approval rating is presumably correlated with VI. Disapproval rating is presumably correlated with tactical voting against you. Thus arguably Corbyn did pretty well in 2017 because he had high approval ratings, but didn't win as there were so many people who disliked him.

    At present it's pretty much a score draw. We would be unwise to bet on it staying that way by 2023-4.
    I agree with Ben at IPSOS MORI and OGH that it is actual approval that matters most.

    To quote OGH "in terms of predicting electoral outcomes it's the proportion saying they are satisfied that is key. Whether they "don't know" or are not satisfied is irrelevant - they are not ready to be positive."
    I always explain it as follows particularly as Tory leaders tend to have greater disapproval - have you ever met a left winger who would not disapprove a Tory leader. I've never met one. However I have met people who are right wing who don't disapprove a Labour leader. This is the inverse of the dogma around Labour people having to have a certain portfolio of beliefs
  • LeonLeon Posts: 9,050
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    This is genuinely fascinating. And merits proper scrutiny

    Let’s focus on Pullman. He’s a clearly brilliant man, who has written wonderful books. It may be aimed at older kids, but the Dark Materials trilogy is a mature, beautiful meditation on faith, and history, and childhood, done with grace and flair. And it has a driving plot. It is deservedly a global bestseller

    And yet. Someone this intelligent honestly believes Boris Johnson WANTS the NHS to collapse. An utterly preposterous thought. How can he think that?

    A toxic cocktail of Brexit and social media has sent him mad. That’s my only explanation. I welcome others
    This is what happens when people's only news sources are the Guardian and the BBC.
    That’s long been the case for metro luvvies. This new insanity is special

    I’m pretty sure it’s Brexit - plus the echo-chamber of Twitter

    The process is: Brexit sends you mad, for a while, and in the past you would generally recover. But these days Twitter rewards you for your nuttiness, with the dopamine hit of ‘likes’, so you persist
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 8,896
    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    This is genuinely fascinating. And merits proper scrutiny

    Let’s focus on Pullman. He’s a clearly brilliant man, who has written wonderful books. It may be aimed at older kids, but the Dark Materials trilogy is a mature, beautiful meditation on faith, and history, and childhood, done with grace and flair. And it has a driving plot. It is deservedly a global bestseller

    And yet. Someone this intelligent honestly believes Boris Johnson WANTS the NHS to collapse. An utterly preposterous thought. How can he think that?

    A toxic cocktail of Brexit and social media has sent him mad. That’s my only explanation. I welcome others
    Pullman's looks like hyperbole. Let's wait and see if private contractors are brought in to ease the strain on the NHS. The reply, however, does look farcically OTT.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002
    edited July 12

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign
    So you're saying she is a liar making a false apology, rather than that she feels she made an error in her comment?

    An interesting way to stick up for a party colleague.
    He can never say the word sorry and now he is throwing a colleague to the wolves

    She has made a genuine apology and demonstrates to @HYUFD how it is done but he is too pig headed and stupid to realise it
    I am not going to apologise for holding a view most of my fellow Tory voters hold ie they opposed Rashford's campaign, yes it was a but of a cheap comment but unlike you I do not always give in to the left while huffing and puffing about how awful Boris is and then voting for him anyway!
    Since you normally have an opinion poll to back whatever viewpoint you want, even if other polls say differently, have you got an opinion poll showing most Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign?

    Or are you making that up?

    This Tory voter supported his campaign and called for the government to u-turn on this site before they did. Which is funny given how often I'm farcically accused of being a "fanboy" or even "CCHQ". 🙄
    Yes Yougov

    47% of 2019 Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign, only 42% in favour.

    By contrast 71% of Labour voters backed Rashford's campaign as did 67% of LD voters
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20

    Given you voted for Blair in 2001 as did BigG when I was campaigning for Hague and the Tories you are hardly either diehard Tories anyway
  • MattWMattW Posts: 8,766
    edited July 12
    Alistair said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    I must say, the racist tweets I saw quoted by Sunder Katwala this morning really don't sound like they were written by English people.

    If you wanted to sow division and hatred in a country, this is the kind of thing you would do, isn't it?

    I think its been established before that even a lot of things that seem like they must be by bots, for example, often are not. Simplest explanation is usually the best, and conspiracy is not the simplest.
    It was probably said by people.

    Just not by English people.

    Look at the language. English people don't speak like that.

    What proof do you have the perpetrators were English people...?
    A New Age airhead has defaced a mural of Marcus Rashford with a howl of meaningless psychobabble. No proper Englishman could utter a sentence like that:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-57803161
    (For the record, Horse, yes obvs I condemn this).

    However it will be interesting to see where the media / commentators take this - most media reports are going for the 'this is so offensive we have blocked it out of the picture and won't discuss the content with you' method, as the Today programme used to do before they spent 6 minutes discussing how outrageous twitter had become.

    'Racially aggravated damage' ?
    https://theathletic.com/news/marcus-rashford-euro-2020-england/R45W1PIU6IHR

    It is a picture of a cock 'n' balls.



    I can see them going for RAD due to indirect reasons, however.
    Given how much of the mural is currently covered up I don't think that is the graffiti in question.
    That's a very good comment; I would like to know.

    If so, I'll withdraw my previous comment.

    Going to see what I can find out.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 16,601

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    "It's so puzzling to see novelists lose any empathetic ability when it comes to politics. They'd never write a cartoon baddie character like this and yet think it's plausible in real politicians. Ironic that @Dominic2306 portrait far more nuanced."

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1414550606996508674?s=20
    There was plenty of this stuff back in the 80s, re Thatcher.

    It's simple to see why - once in the echo chamber, the more extreme the opinion, the more the applause. And, no-one ever says "hang on, your last 10,000 predictions that Thatcher would start gassing black people, or whatever, turned out to be bollocks."
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 42,918
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    This is genuinely fascinating. And merits proper scrutiny

    Let’s focus on Pullman. He’s a clearly brilliant man, who has written wonderful books. It may be aimed at older kids, but the Dark Materials trilogy is a mature, beautiful meditation on faith, and history, and childhood, done with grace and flair. And it has a driving plot. It is deservedly a global bestseller

    And yet. Someone this intelligent honestly believes Boris Johnson WANTS the NHS to collapse. An utterly preposterous thought. How can he think that?

    A toxic cocktail of Brexit and social media has sent him mad. That’s my only explanation. I welcome others
    This is what happens when people's only news sources are the Guardian and the BBC.
    I think the BBC website is worse than the Guardian these days. Pure Wokery.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,348

    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    This is genuinely fascinating. And merits proper scrutiny

    Let’s focus on Pullman. He’s a clearly brilliant man, who has written wonderful books. It may be aimed at older kids, but the Dark Materials trilogy is a mature, beautiful meditation on faith, and history, and childhood, done with grace and flair. And it has a driving plot. It is deservedly a global bestseller

    And yet. Someone this intelligent honestly believes Boris Johnson WANTS the NHS to collapse. An utterly preposterous thought. How can he think that?

    A toxic cocktail of Brexit and social media has sent him mad. That’s my only explanation. I welcome others
    I think you could make a fairly cogent argument that the NHS has, actually, collapsed anyway. 13 million forecast to be in line for treatment. Wait weeks for a photocall with your GP. A&E overwhelmed because there are no alternatives.

    If we locked down to save the NHS, in fact we failed. We didn't save the NHS. It collapsed anyway. It folded up like a deck chair in a gale.
    The real losers in the NHS in the pandemic appear to be GPs (who are largely private businesses anyway)

    Anecdotes of them stuffing their back pockets full of cash from doing vaccinations whist acting as reclusive megagods refusing to see any patients isn't a good look.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 11,744
    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign as that Yougov polling data shows
    Lets be clear. 47% of Tory voters disagreed with feeding hungry kids. A significant number of whom are the same WWC they complain are discriminated against by taking the knee.

    Same with the education committee Tories horrified at the poor attainment of WWC pupils yet seem to think that repeatedly voting to reduce funding for the schools they go to, repeatedly attacking teachers and exams (too easy) and voting to keep them dirt poor (no we won't keep feeding them in the holidays, we can't afford it).

    I would have more respect for them if they were open about it. We don't like poor people and won't pay for them. The likes of Ben Bradley get mocked when they say poor people will spend handout cash on drugs but at least he is open. the rest are frit.
    It was only free school meals in the holidays they opposed not free school meals in term time when at school, I support that but in the holidays parents get benefits to feed their children if out of work or on a low income
    They get the "benefits" in term time as well. And yet the schools still need to feed them and sometimes clothe them. Blame the parents if you like, but the people who suffer are the children. Who then do poorly at school causing you and yours to then pretend to care about the consequences of your actions.

    Just be clear with everyone, it makes like much easier. You and yours don't care about these kids, don't care about their life chances, and don't think you should pay for them.
  • glwglw Posts: 7,570

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    It shows that no matter how eminent you may be, you can also be a total moron.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 8,766
    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    I must say, the racist tweets I saw quoted by Sunder Katwala this morning really don't sound like they were written by English people.

    If you wanted to sow division and hatred in a country, this is the kind of thing you would do, isn't it?

    I think its been established before that even a lot of things that seem like they must be by bots, for example, often are not. Simplest explanation is usually the best, and conspiracy is not the simplest.
    It was probably said by people.

    Just not by English people.

    Look at the language. English people don't speak like that.

    What proof do you have the perpetrators were English people...?
    A New Age airhead has defaced a mural of Marcus Rashford with a howl of meaningless psychobabble. No proper Englishman could utter a sentence like that:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-57803161
    It will be interesting to see where the media / commentators take this - most media reports are going for the 'this is so offensive we have blocked it out of the picture and won't discuss the content with you' method
    I absolutely detest that kind of thing. I never know how outraged I'm supposed to be if you won't report or show the actual thing that has caused outrage. How I am supposed to know what a proportionate response would be, whether an apology etc is sufficient?
    Leon said:

    Firsht?

    Leon said:

    Schecond?!

    Sounds like counting off drinks.
    My comment re the 'covering up' stands.

    But (see my other post) I may have landed on the wrong graffiti.

    Checking...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 38,440

    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    This is genuinely fascinating. And merits proper scrutiny

    Let’s focus on Pullman. He’s a clearly brilliant man, who has written wonderful books. It may be aimed at older kids, but the Dark Materials trilogy is a mature, beautiful meditation on faith, and history, and childhood, done with grace and flair. And it has a driving plot. It is deservedly a global bestseller

    And yet. Someone this intelligent honestly believes Boris Johnson WANTS the NHS to collapse. An utterly preposterous thought. How can he think that?

    A toxic cocktail of Brexit and social media has sent him mad. That’s my only explanation. I welcome others
    I think you could make a fairly cogent argument that the NHS has, actually, collapsed anyway. 13 million forecast to be in line for treatment. Wait weeks for a photocall with your GP. A&E overwhelmed because there are no alternatives.

    If we locked down to save the NHS, in fact we failed. We didn't save the NHS. It collapsed anyway. It folded up like a deck chair in a gale.
    Rubbish. I am in Dundee, until recently the hot spot for Covid in Europe, apparently (well, it makes a nice change from drug deaths). I had a recent trip to hospital in Edinburgh. They wrote to my GP and Ninewells for follow up tests. The practice phoned me last week. I went in for my bloods etc, this morning. I am told to expect the results on Thursday. This is not the performance of a collapsed organisation.

    Hundreds of thousands of others are receiving their ongoing treatment on a daily basis. Statements like yours are, with respect, every bit as wild and demented as that of Philip Pullman's. Is any sense of perspective just old hat now?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,006

    Leon said:

    To combine the themes, this is a remarkably unwise tweet by Angela Rayner

    “Let me be clear. The Prime Minister and the Home Secretary gave license to the racists who booed the England players and are now racially abusing England players.

    @BorisJohnson and @pritipatel are like arsonists complaining about a fire they poured petrol on. Total hypocrites.”

    https://twitter.com/angelarayner/status/1414498287097454592?s=21

    I’d say she is drunk but it was posted at 9am. What is she thinking?

    This marvelous football team that was meant to unite us is going to leave us much more embittered, and racially divided, and both sides are stoking it. We are now France, but without the World Cups as consolation

    It's a common theme amongst the Left, who are desperate to politicise it.

    And they have the audacity of accusing the Conservatives of being the ones prosecuting a culture war.
    Angela Rayner is one of the many reasons why LAB are a long way from being in Government!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 58,366
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign
    So you're saying she is a liar making a false apology, rather than that she feels she made an error in her comment?

    An interesting way to stick up for a party colleague.
    He can never say the word sorry and now he is throwing a colleague to the wolves

    She has made a genuine apology and demonstrates to @HYUFD how it is done but he is too pig headed and stupid to realise it
    I am not going to apologise for holding a view most of my fellow Tory voters hold ie they opposed Rashford's campaign, yes it was a but of a cheap comment but unlike you I do not always give in to the left while huffing and puffing about how awful Boris is and then voting for him anyway!
    Since you normally have an opinion poll to back whatever viewpoint you want, even if other polls say differently, have you got an opinion poll showing most Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign?

    Or are you making that up?

    This Tory voter supported his campaign and called for the government to u-turn on this site before they did. Which is funny given how often I'm farcically accused of being a "fanboy" or even "CCHQ". 🙄
    Yes Yougov

    47% of 2019 Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign, only 42% in favour.

    By contrast 71% of Labour voters backed Rashford's campaign as did 67% of LD voters
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    47% is not "most".

    Most is 50%+1

    If a Scottish opinion poll said that 47% were in favour of Scottish independence and 40% against then you'd compare the 47% for Yes to the 45% they got in the last referendum and make the point that it is a minority on 47% and not a majority.

    So unless you're a total hypocrite, you can't claim that as most.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign as that Yougov polling data shows
    Lets be clear. 47% of Tory voters disagreed with feeding hungry kids. A significant number of whom are the same WWC they complain are discriminated against by taking the knee.

    Same with the education committee Tories horrified at the poor attainment of WWC pupils yet seem to think that repeatedly voting to reduce funding for the schools they go to, repeatedly attacking teachers and exams (too easy) and voting to keep them dirt poor (no we won't keep feeding them in the holidays, we can't afford it).

    I would have more respect for them if they were open about it. We don't like poor people and won't pay for them. The likes of Ben Bradley get mocked when they say poor people will spend handout cash on drugs but at least he is open. the rest are frit.
    It was only free school meals in the holidays they opposed not free school meals in term time when at school, I support that but in the holidays parents get benefits to feed their children if out of work or on a low income
    They get the "benefits" in term time as well. And yet the schools still need to feed them and sometimes clothe them. Blame the parents if you like, but the people who suffer are the children. Who then do poorly at school causing you and yours to then pretend to care about the consequences of your actions.

    Just be clear with everyone, it makes like much easier. You and yours don't care about these kids, don't care about their life chances, and don't think you should pay for them.
    If it is the school holidays then by definition they are not at school.

    As I said I agree with free school meals during term time when they are at school
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 2,566
    I think Quincel's assertion that it is primarily the PM's leader rating that is relevant to the next election at this stage, not so much the LOTO's, needs an airing here. I'm not saying Starmer's ratings are completely irrelevant, just that many voters aren't really making that comparative judgement.

    Either way, it doesn't look disastrous for the Tories as yet.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 3,796
    edited July 12
    Leon said:

    To combine the themes, this is a remarkably unwise tweet by Angela Rayner

    “Let me be clear. The Prime Minister and the Home Secretary gave license to the racists who booed the England players and are now racially abusing England players.

    @BorisJohnson and @pritipatel are like arsonists complaining about a fire they poured petrol on. Total hypocrites.”

    https://twitter.com/angelarayner/status/1414498287097454592?s=21

    I’d say she is drunk but it was posted at 9am. What is she thinking?

    This marvelous football team that was meant to unite us is going to leave us much more embittered, and racially divided, and both sides are stoking it. We are now France, but without the World Cups as consolation

    This is what happens when you make absolutely everything political.

    I wonder whether there will be anything again which will be able to be enjoyed apolitically? Clearly not sport any more. Nor TV drama. Nor the National Trust. Obviously not education. Eating and drinking is still available, but give it time. Absolutely everything must be done with a background chorus telling you what a despicable racist you are.

    And yet I know no-one at all who I would describe as 'a bit racist'. No one.

    There is a whiff of McCarthyism about the hunt for racists.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 13,207
    MattW said:

    Alistair said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    I must say, the racist tweets I saw quoted by Sunder Katwala this morning really don't sound like they were written by English people.

    If you wanted to sow division and hatred in a country, this is the kind of thing you would do, isn't it?

    I think its been established before that even a lot of things that seem like they must be by bots, for example, often are not. Simplest explanation is usually the best, and conspiracy is not the simplest.
    It was probably said by people.

    Just not by English people.

    Look at the language. English people don't speak like that.

    What proof do you have the perpetrators were English people...?
    A New Age airhead has defaced a mural of Marcus Rashford with a howl of meaningless psychobabble. No proper Englishman could utter a sentence like that:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-57803161
    (For the record, Horse, yes obvs I condemn this).

    However it will be interesting to see where the media / commentators take this - most media reports are going for the 'this is so offensive we have blocked it out of the picture and won't discuss the content with you' method, as the Today programme used to do before they spent 6 minutes discussing how outrageous twitter had become.

    'Racially aggravated damage' ?
    https://theathletic.com/news/marcus-rashford-euro-2020-england/R45W1PIU6IHR

    It is a picture of a cock 'n' balls.



    I can see them going for RAD due to indirect reasons, however.
    Given how much of the mural is currently covered up I don't think that is the graffiti in question.
    That's a very good comment; I would like to know.

    If so, I'll withdraw my previous comment.

    Going to see what I can find out.
    Try the Mail. They have it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign
    So you're saying she is a liar making a false apology, rather than that she feels she made an error in her comment?

    An interesting way to stick up for a party colleague.
    He can never say the word sorry and now he is throwing a colleague to the wolves

    She has made a genuine apology and demonstrates to @HYUFD how it is done but he is too pig headed and stupid to realise it
    I am not going to apologise for holding a view most of my fellow Tory voters hold ie they opposed Rashford's campaign, yes it was a but of a cheap comment but unlike you I do not always give in to the left while huffing and puffing about how awful Boris is and then voting for him anyway!
    Since you normally have an opinion poll to back whatever viewpoint you want, even if other polls say differently, have you got an opinion poll showing most Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign?

    Or are you making that up?

    This Tory voter supported his campaign and called for the government to u-turn on this site before they did. Which is funny given how often I'm farcically accused of being a "fanboy" or even "CCHQ". 🙄
    Yes Yougov

    47% of 2019 Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign, only 42% in favour.

    By contrast 71% of Labour voters backed Rashford's campaign as did 67% of LD voters
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    47% is not "most".

    Most is 50%+1

    If a Scottish opinion poll said that 47% were in favour of Scottish independence and 40% against then you'd compare the 47% for Yes to the 45% they got in the last referendum and make the point that it is a minority on 47% and not a majority.

    So unless you're a total hypocrite, you can't claim that as most.
    Still a plurality
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 7,701

    Leon said:

    To combine the themes, this is a remarkably unwise tweet by Angela Rayner

    “Let me be clear. The Prime Minister and the Home Secretary gave license to the racists who booed the England players and are now racially abusing England players.

    @BorisJohnson and @pritipatel are like arsonists complaining about a fire they poured petrol on. Total hypocrites.”

    https://twitter.com/angelarayner/status/1414498287097454592?s=21

    I’d say she is drunk but it was posted at 9am. What is she thinking?

    This marvelous football team that was meant to unite us is going to leave us much more embittered, and racially divided, and both sides are stoking it. We are now France, but without the World Cups as consolation

    It's a common theme amongst the Left, who are desperate to politicise it.

    And they have the audacity of accusing the Conservatives of being the ones prosecuting a culture war.
    Angela Rayner is one of the many reasons why LAB are a long way from being in Government!
    She is hopeless. Mediocrity is not a bar to high office in either of our main political parties sadly.
  • glwglw Posts: 7,570

    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    Two famous and intelligent writers. A pure example of Strasbourg Syndrome. 10/10
    Nothing to do with Strasbourg, just your typical leftwing luvvies being deranged and hating Tories.

    The Tories want to kill the poor and destroy the NHS has been a meme of the far left since long before Brexit.
    People having been saying "Tories are going to privatise the NHS" my entire life. Well they are taking their bloody time about it.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 18,926
    This is the Rashford mural graffiti if anyone is looking for it.
    tlg86 said:

    It's somewhat ironic that one of the only reasons I use Twitter is when the MSM won't show me something:

    https://twitter.com/TheFergusonWay/status/1414493674377859073/photo/1

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 58,366
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign
    So you're saying she is a liar making a false apology, rather than that she feels she made an error in her comment?

    An interesting way to stick up for a party colleague.
    He can never say the word sorry and now he is throwing a colleague to the wolves

    She has made a genuine apology and demonstrates to @HYUFD how it is done but he is too pig headed and stupid to realise it
    I am not going to apologise for holding a view most of my fellow Tory voters hold ie they opposed Rashford's campaign, yes it was a but of a cheap comment but unlike you I do not always give in to the left while huffing and puffing about how awful Boris is and then voting for him anyway!
    Since you normally have an opinion poll to back whatever viewpoint you want, even if other polls say differently, have you got an opinion poll showing most Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign?

    Or are you making that up?

    This Tory voter supported his campaign and called for the government to u-turn on this site before they did. Which is funny given how often I'm farcically accused of being a "fanboy" or even "CCHQ". 🙄
    Yes Yougov

    47% of 2019 Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign, only 42% in favour.

    By contrast 71% of Labour voters backed Rashford's campaign as did 67% of LD voters
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    47% is not "most".

    Most is 50%+1

    If a Scottish opinion poll said that 47% were in favour of Scottish independence and 40% against then you'd compare the 47% for Yes to the 45% they got in the last referendum and make the point that it is a minority on 47% and not a majority.

    So unless you're a total hypocrite, you can't claim that as most.
    Still a plurality
    And a plurality is a minority is it not?

    Or next time a poll says a plurality of Scottish voters back Yes will you claim that as a majority for Yes? Or claim it as a minority?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 62,763
    edited July 12

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    "It's so puzzling to see novelists lose any empathetic ability when it comes to politics. They'd never write a cartoon baddie character like this and yet think it's plausible in real politicians. Ironic that @Dominic2306 portrait far more nuanced."

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1414550606996508674?s=20
    There was plenty of this stuff back in the 80s, re Thatcher.

    It's simple to see why - once in the echo chamber, the more extreme the opinion, the more the applause. And, no-one ever says "hang on, your last 10,000 predictions that Thatcher would start gassing black people, or whatever, turned out to be bollocks."
    Twitter definitely amplifies this...we see it with Fox, Morgan, Lineker, I notice Danny Baker is also down that rabbit hole now. People who should know better, aren't kids, get sucked into the vortex of wanting twitter engagement everyday for some weird justification / popularity / infamy.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 11,744
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign as that Yougov polling data shows
    Lets be clear. 47% of Tory voters disagreed with feeding hungry kids. A significant number of whom are the same WWC they complain are discriminated against by taking the knee.

    Same with the education committee Tories horrified at the poor attainment of WWC pupils yet seem to think that repeatedly voting to reduce funding for the schools they go to, repeatedly attacking teachers and exams (too easy) and voting to keep them dirt poor (no we won't keep feeding them in the holidays, we can't afford it).

    I would have more respect for them if they were open about it. We don't like poor people and won't pay for them. The likes of Ben Bradley get mocked when they say poor people will spend handout cash on drugs but at least he is open. the rest are frit.
    It was only free school meals in the holidays they opposed not free school meals in term time when at school, I support that but in the holidays parents get benefits to feed their children if out of work or on a low income
    They get the "benefits" in term time as well. And yet the schools still need to feed them and sometimes clothe them. Blame the parents if you like, but the people who suffer are the children. Who then do poorly at school causing you and yours to then pretend to care about the consequences of your actions.

    Just be clear with everyone, it makes like much easier. You and yours don't care about these kids, don't care about their life chances, and don't think you should pay for them.
    If it is the school holidays then by definition they are not at school.

    As I said I agree with free school meals during term time when they are at school
    Yes, they're not at school. Turning term time the schools need to feed them. Who do you think is feeding them in the holidays? It isn't the parents, that's the whole point.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 7,701
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign
    So you're saying she is a liar making a false apology, rather than that she feels she made an error in her comment?

    An interesting way to stick up for a party colleague.
    He can never say the word sorry and now he is throwing a colleague to the wolves

    She has made a genuine apology and demonstrates to @HYUFD how it is done but he is too pig headed and stupid to realise it
    I am not going to apologise for holding a view most of my fellow Tory voters hold ie they opposed Rashford's campaign, yes it was a but of a cheap comment but unlike you I do not always give in to the left while huffing and puffing about how awful Boris is and then voting for him anyway!
    Since you normally have an opinion poll to back whatever viewpoint you want, even if other polls say differently, have you got an opinion poll showing most Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign?

    Or are you making that up?

    This Tory voter supported his campaign and called for the government to u-turn on this site before they did. Which is funny given how often I'm farcically accused of being a "fanboy" or even "CCHQ". 🙄
    Yes Yougov

    47% of 2019 Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign, only 42% in favour.

    By contrast 71% of Labour voters backed Rashford's campaign as did 67% of LD voters
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20

    Given you voted for Blair in 2001 as did BigG when I was campaigning for Hague and the Tories you are hardly either diehard Tories anyway
    Philip also voted for the crypto-fascist Brexit Party; a party founded by Farage who has been described as openly racist by Alan Sked who founded UKIP. Philip is not a Conservative.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign as that Yougov polling data shows
    Lets be clear. 47% of Tory voters disagreed with feeding hungry kids. A significant number of whom are the same WWC they complain are discriminated against by taking the knee.

    Same with the education committee Tories horrified at the poor attainment of WWC pupils yet seem to think that repeatedly voting to reduce funding for the schools they go to, repeatedly attacking teachers and exams (too easy) and voting to keep them dirt poor (no we won't keep feeding them in the holidays, we can't afford it).

    I would have more respect for them if they were open about it. We don't like poor people and won't pay for them. The likes of Ben Bradley get mocked when they say poor people will spend handout cash on drugs but at least he is open. the rest are frit.
    It was only free school meals in the holidays they opposed not free school meals in term time when at school, I support that but in the holidays parents get benefits to feed their children if out of work or on a low income
    They get the "benefits" in term time as well. And yet the schools still need to feed them and sometimes clothe them. Blame the parents if you like, but the people who suffer are the children. Who then do poorly at school causing you and yours to then pretend to care about the consequences of your actions.

    Just be clear with everyone, it makes like much easier. You and yours don't care about these kids, don't care about their life chances, and don't think you should pay for them.
    If it is the school holidays then by definition they are not at school.

    As I said I agree with free school meals during term time when they are at school
    Yes, they're not at school. Turning term time the schools need to feed them. Who do you think is feeding them in the holidays? It isn't the parents, that's the whole point.
    Unless they are orphans, living with another family member or in care then yes their parents will be feeding them and in the holidays they get benefits for that if on low incomes or out of work
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 16,601
    glw said:

    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    Two famous and intelligent writers. A pure example of Strasbourg Syndrome. 10/10
    Nothing to do with Strasbourg, just your typical leftwing luvvies being deranged and hating Tories.

    The Tories want to kill the poor and destroy the NHS has been a meme of the far left since long before Brexit.
    People having been saying "Tories are going to privatise the NHS" my entire life. Well they are taking their bloody time about it.
    The Tories have been destroying the NHS since before I was borne.

    The first destruction of the NHS I remember was when, in the 80s, the government allowed micro-surgery (small incision, fibre optic stuff). I remember a very irate surgeon explaining on Radio 4 that a real surgeon needed a proper incision and this stupid American idea would destroy the NHS.

    Then there were generic drugs. Apparently, the people of the UK *needed* the most expensive drugs available.

    And so it goes on....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 29,849

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    "It's so puzzling to see novelists lose any empathetic ability when it comes to politics. They'd never write a cartoon baddie character like this and yet think it's plausible in real politicians. Ironic that @Dominic2306 portrait far more nuanced."

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1414550606996508674?s=20
    That's a good point. I thought the same thing about Harold Pinter who could write nuanced characters, but was completely unable to see nuance in politics.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 62,763
    glw said:

    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    Two famous and intelligent writers. A pure example of Strasbourg Syndrome. 10/10
    Nothing to do with Strasbourg, just your typical leftwing luvvies being deranged and hating Tories.

    The Tories want to kill the poor and destroy the NHS has been a meme of the far left since long before Brexit.
    People having been saying "Tories are going to privatise the NHS" my entire life. Well they are taking their bloody time about it.
    I thought there was only 3 mins to save the NHS? The clock seems to have been suck at 3 mins to for so many years now, while funding has gone us.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign
    So you're saying she is a liar making a false apology, rather than that she feels she made an error in her comment?

    An interesting way to stick up for a party colleague.
    He can never say the word sorry and now he is throwing a colleague to the wolves

    She has made a genuine apology and demonstrates to @HYUFD how it is done but he is too pig headed and stupid to realise it
    I am not going to apologise for holding a view most of my fellow Tory voters hold ie they opposed Rashford's campaign, yes it was a but of a cheap comment but unlike you I do not always give in to the left while huffing and puffing about how awful Boris is and then voting for him anyway!
    Since you normally have an opinion poll to back whatever viewpoint you want, even if other polls say differently, have you got an opinion poll showing most Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign?

    Or are you making that up?

    This Tory voter supported his campaign and called for the government to u-turn on this site before they did. Which is funny given how often I'm farcically accused of being a "fanboy" or even "CCHQ". 🙄
    Yes Yougov

    47% of 2019 Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign, only 42% in favour.

    By contrast 71% of Labour voters backed Rashford's campaign as did 67% of LD voters
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    47% is not "most".

    Most is 50%+1

    If a Scottish opinion poll said that 47% were in favour of Scottish independence and 40% against then you'd compare the 47% for Yes to the 45% they got in the last referendum and make the point that it is a minority on 47% and not a majority.

    So unless you're a total hypocrite, you can't claim that as most.
    Still a plurality
    And a plurality is a minority is it not?

    Or next time a poll says a plurality of Scottish voters back Yes will you claim that as a majority for Yes? Or claim it as a minority?
    The latest polling has a 48% plurality for No

    https://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/24-hour-scottish-referendum-poll.pdf
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 29,849

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign
    So you're saying she is a liar making a false apology, rather than that she feels she made an error in her comment?

    An interesting way to stick up for a party colleague.
    He can never say the word sorry and now he is throwing a colleague to the wolves

    She has made a genuine apology and demonstrates to @HYUFD how it is done but he is too pig headed and stupid to realise it
    I am not going to apologise for holding a view most of my fellow Tory voters hold ie they opposed Rashford's campaign, yes it was a but of a cheap comment but unlike you I do not always give in to the left while huffing and puffing about how awful Boris is and then voting for him anyway!
    Since you normally have an opinion poll to back whatever viewpoint you want, even if other polls say differently, have you got an opinion poll showing most Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign?

    Or are you making that up?

    This Tory voter supported his campaign and called for the government to u-turn on this site before they did. Which is funny given how often I'm farcically accused of being a "fanboy" or even "CCHQ". 🙄
    Yes Yougov

    47% of 2019 Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign, only 42% in favour.

    By contrast 71% of Labour voters backed Rashford's campaign as did 67% of LD voters
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20

    Given you voted for Blair in 2001 as did BigG when I was campaigning for Hague and the Tories you are hardly either diehard Tories anyway
    Philip also voted for the crypto-fascist Brexit Party; a party founded by Farage who has been described as openly racist by Alan Sked who founded UKIP. Philip is not a Conservative.
    No true Conservative is like No true Scotsman.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002
    edited July 12

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign
    So you're saying she is a liar making a false apology, rather than that she feels she made an error in her comment?

    An interesting way to stick up for a party colleague.
    He can never say the word sorry and now he is throwing a colleague to the wolves

    She has made a genuine apology and demonstrates to @HYUFD how it is done but he is too pig headed and stupid to realise it
    I am not going to apologise for holding a view most of my fellow Tory voters hold ie they opposed Rashford's campaign, yes it was a but of a cheap comment but unlike you I do not always give in to the left while huffing and puffing about how awful Boris is and then voting for him anyway!
    Since you normally have an opinion poll to back whatever viewpoint you want, even if other polls say differently, have you got an opinion poll showing most Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign?

    Or are you making that up?

    This Tory voter supported his campaign and called for the government to u-turn on this site before they did. Which is funny given how often I'm farcically accused of being a "fanboy" or even "CCHQ". 🙄
    Yes Yougov

    47% of 2019 Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign, only 42% in favour.

    By contrast 71% of Labour voters backed Rashford's campaign as did 67% of LD voters
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20

    Given you voted for Blair in 2001 as did BigG when I was campaigning for Hague and the Tories you are hardly either diehard Tories anyway
    Philip also voted for the crypto-fascist Brexit Party; a party founded by Farage who has been described as openly racist by Alan Sked who founded UKIP. Philip is not a Conservative.
    True as well while I was one of the 9% who voted for May's Tories even in the 2019 European elections
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 56,149
    As an aside, I'm very much enjoying re-reading Polybius. Hannibal's just crossed the Rhone.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 7,701
    glw said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    It shows that no matter how eminent you may be, you can also be a total moron.
    I have met a few novelists. I think being a moron is a requirement. They live in a sad fantasy world where they can play God (particularly in Pullman's case) with their creation. If they manage to get a publisher and a modicum of success they begin to feel they are god, even though everyone else knows they are a moron.

    The difference between novelists and God is that God doesn't think he is a novelist.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 4,333
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign as that Yougov polling data shows
    Lets be clear. 47% of Tory voters disagreed with feeding hungry kids. A significant number of whom are the same WWC they complain are discriminated against by taking the knee.

    Same with the education committee Tories horrified at the poor attainment of WWC pupils yet seem to think that repeatedly voting to reduce funding for the schools they go to, repeatedly attacking teachers and exams (too easy) and voting to keep them dirt poor (no we won't keep feeding them in the holidays, we can't afford it).

    I would have more respect for them if they were open about it. We don't like poor people and won't pay for them. The likes of Ben Bradley get mocked when they say poor people will spend handout cash on drugs but at least he is open. the rest are frit.
    It was only free school meals in the holidays they opposed not free school meals in term time when at school, I support that but in the holidays parents get benefits to feed their children if out of work or on a low income
    They get the "benefits" in term time as well. And yet the schools still need to feed them and sometimes clothe them. Blame the parents if you like, but the people who suffer are the children. Who then do poorly at school causing you and yours to then pretend to care about the consequences of your actions.

    Just be clear with everyone, it makes like much easier. You and yours don't care about these kids, don't care about their life chances, and don't think you should pay for them.
    If it is the school holidays then by definition they are not at school.

    As I said I agree with free school meals during term time when they are at school
    Yes, they're not at school. Turning term time the schools need to feed them. Who do you think is feeding them in the holidays? It isn't the parents, that's the whole point.
    Unless they are orphans, living with another family member or in care then yes their parents will be feeding them and in the holidays they get benefits for that if on low incomes or out of work
    You get the same benefits on during school holidays that you get during termtime, but have five extra meals a week to find per child.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 66,703
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign
    So you're saying she is a liar making a false apology, rather than that she feels she made an error in her comment?

    An interesting way to stick up for a party colleague.
    He can never say the word sorry and now he is throwing a colleague to the wolves

    She has made a genuine apology and demonstrates to @HYUFD how it is done but he is too pig headed and stupid to realise it
    I am not going to apologise for holding a view most of my fellow Tory voters hold ie they opposed Rashford's campaign, yes it was a but of a cheap comment but unlike you I do not always give in to the left while huffing and puffing about how awful Boris is and then voting for him anyway!
    Since you normally have an opinion poll to back whatever viewpoint you want, even if other polls say differently, have you got an opinion poll showing most Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign?

    Or are you making that up?

    This Tory voter supported his campaign and called for the government to u-turn on this site before they did. Which is funny given how often I'm farcically accused of being a "fanboy" or even "CCHQ". 🙄
    Yes Yougov

    47% of 2019 Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign, only 42% in favour.

    By contrast 71% of Labour voters backed Rashford's campaign as did 67% of LD voters
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20

    Given you voted for Blair in 2001 as did BigG when I was campaigning for Hague and the Tories you are hardly either diehard Tories anyway
    Philip also voted for the crypto-fascist Brexit Party; a party founded by Farage who has been described as openly racist by Alan Sked who founded UKIP. Philip is not a Conservative.
    True as well while I was one of the 9% who voted for May's Tories in the 2019 European elections
    So was I, so dont assume that was only the loyalist of the loyal.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 6,232

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign as that Yougov polling data shows
    Lets be clear. 47% of Tory voters disagreed with feeding hungry kids. A significant number of whom are the same WWC they complain are discriminated against by taking the knee.

    Same with the education committee Tories horrified at the poor attainment of WWC pupils yet seem to think that repeatedly voting to reduce funding for the schools they go to, repeatedly attacking teachers and exams (too easy) and voting to keep them dirt poor (no we won't keep feeding them in the holidays, we can't afford it).

    I would have more respect for them if they were open about it. We don't like poor people and won't pay for them. The likes of Ben Bradley get mocked when they say poor people will spend handout cash on drugs but at least he is open. the rest are frit.
    It was only free school meals in the holidays they opposed not free school meals in term time when at school, I support that but in the holidays parents get benefits to feed their children if out of work or on a low income
    They get the "benefits" in term time as well. And yet the schools still need to feed them and sometimes clothe them. Blame the parents if you like, but the people who suffer are the children. Who then do poorly at school causing you and yours to then pretend to care about the consequences of your actions.

    Just be clear with everyone, it makes like much easier. You and yours don't care about these kids, don't care about their life chances, and don't think you should pay for them.
    If it is the school holidays then by definition they are not at school.

    As I said I agree with free school meals during term time when they are at school
    Yes, they're not at school. Turning term time the schools need to feed them. Who do you think is feeding them in the holidays? It isn't the parents, that's the whole point.
    Not sure what you are saying. Children never get school meals when not at school do they? Why would last year (and this?) be any different?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 8,766
    edited July 12

    Leon said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    This is genuinely fascinating. And merits proper scrutiny

    Let’s focus on Pullman. He’s a clearly brilliant man, who has written wonderful books. It may be aimed at older kids, but the Dark Materials trilogy is a mature, beautiful meditation on faith, and history, and childhood, done with grace and flair. And it has a driving plot. It is deservedly a global bestseller

    And yet. Someone this intelligent honestly believes Boris Johnson WANTS the NHS to collapse. An utterly preposterous thought. How can he think that?

    A toxic cocktail of Brexit and social media has sent him mad. That’s my only explanation. I welcome others
    I think you could make a fairly cogent argument that the NHS has, actually, collapsed anyway. 13 million forecast to be in line for treatment. Wait weeks for a photocall with your GP. A&E overwhelmed because there are no alternatives.

    If we locked down to save the NHS, in fact we failed. We didn't save the NHS. It collapsed anyway. It folded up like a deck chair in a gale.
    Not correct imo.

    It is the top end of a very wide range. Inevitably with a very small probability. This is the profile to date.




  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 62,763
    Getting a flu vaccine slashes the risk of falling severely ill with Covid, a study has suggested.

    An analysis of nearly 75,000 coronavirus patients found those who received an annual influenza jab were 60 per cent less likely to end up in A&E compared to people not vaccinated against flu.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9779765/Getting-flu-jab-slashes-risk-hospitalised-Covid-60-study-finds.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign
    So you're saying she is a liar making a false apology, rather than that she feels she made an error in her comment?

    An interesting way to stick up for a party colleague.
    He can never say the word sorry and now he is throwing a colleague to the wolves

    She has made a genuine apology and demonstrates to @HYUFD how it is done but he is too pig headed and stupid to realise it
    I am not going to apologise for holding a view most of my fellow Tory voters hold ie they opposed Rashford's campaign, yes it was a but of a cheap comment but unlike you I do not always give in to the left while huffing and puffing about how awful Boris is and then voting for him anyway!
    Since you normally have an opinion poll to back whatever viewpoint you want, even if other polls say differently, have you got an opinion poll showing most Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign?

    Or are you making that up?

    This Tory voter supported his campaign and called for the government to u-turn on this site before they did. Which is funny given how often I'm farcically accused of being a "fanboy" or even "CCHQ". 🙄
    Yes Yougov

    47% of 2019 Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign, only 42% in favour.

    By contrast 71% of Labour voters backed Rashford's campaign as did 67% of LD voters
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20

    Given you voted for Blair in 2001 as did BigG when I was campaigning for Hague and the Tories you are hardly either diehard Tories anyway
    Philip also voted for the crypto-fascist Brexit Party; a party founded by Farage who has been described as openly racist by Alan Sked who founded UKIP. Philip is not a Conservative.
    True as well while I was one of the 9% who voted for May's Tories in the 2019 European elections
    So was I, so dont assume that was only the loyalist of the loyal.
    Did you vote Tory in 1997 and/or 2001 though too? (If so you can join the bluer than blue club)
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 7,701
    In case someone else didn't post it on the last thread, this is for the haters that have been dissing Southgate:

    “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” Theodore Roosevelt
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign as that Yougov polling data shows
    Lets be clear. 47% of Tory voters disagreed with feeding hungry kids. A significant number of whom are the same WWC they complain are discriminated against by taking the knee.

    Same with the education committee Tories horrified at the poor attainment of WWC pupils yet seem to think that repeatedly voting to reduce funding for the schools they go to, repeatedly attacking teachers and exams (too easy) and voting to keep them dirt poor (no we won't keep feeding them in the holidays, we can't afford it).

    I would have more respect for them if they were open about it. We don't like poor people and won't pay for them. The likes of Ben Bradley get mocked when they say poor people will spend handout cash on drugs but at least he is open. the rest are frit.
    It was only free school meals in the holidays they opposed not free school meals in term time when at school, I support that but in the holidays parents get benefits to feed their children if out of work or on a low income
    They get the "benefits" in term time as well. And yet the schools still need to feed them and sometimes clothe them. Blame the parents if you like, but the people who suffer are the children. Who then do poorly at school causing you and yours to then pretend to care about the consequences of your actions.

    Just be clear with everyone, it makes like much easier. You and yours don't care about these kids, don't care about their life chances, and don't think you should pay for them.
    If it is the school holidays then by definition they are not at school.

    As I said I agree with free school meals during term time when they are at school
    Yes, they're not at school. Turning term time the schools need to feed them. Who do you think is feeding them in the holidays? It isn't the parents, that's the whole point.
    Unless they are orphans, living with another family member or in care then yes their parents will be feeding them and in the holidays they get benefits for that if on low incomes or out of work
    You get the same benefits on during school holidays that you get during termtime, but have five extra meals a week to find per child.
    And in term time you do not have to buy 5 lunches for your child at all
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 29,865
    Football anecdata.

    Aged aunt's carer's friend (!) at the footie last night. Heard monkey chants behind him, turned round to tell them to shut up, and is now in hospital.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,570

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign
    So you're saying she is a liar making a false apology, rather than that she feels she made an error in her comment?

    An interesting way to stick up for a party colleague.
    He can never say the word sorry and now he is throwing a colleague to the wolves

    She has made a genuine apology and demonstrates to @HYUFD how it is done but he is too pig headed and stupid to realise it
    I am not going to apologise for holding a view most of my fellow Tory voters hold ie they opposed Rashford's campaign, yes it was a but of a cheap comment but unlike you I do not always give in to the left while huffing and puffing about how awful Boris is and then voting for him anyway!
    Since you normally have an opinion poll to back whatever viewpoint you want, even if other polls say differently, have you got an opinion poll showing most Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign?

    Or are you making that up?

    This Tory voter supported his campaign and called for the government to u-turn on this site before they did. Which is funny given how often I'm farcically accused of being a "fanboy" or even "CCHQ". 🙄
    Yes Yougov

    47% of 2019 Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign, only 42% in favour.

    By contrast 71% of Labour voters backed Rashford's campaign as did 67% of LD voters
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20

    Given you voted for Blair in 2001 as did BigG when I was campaigning for Hague and the Tories you are hardly either diehard Tories anyway
    Philip also voted for the crypto-fascist Brexit Party; a party founded by Farage who has been described as openly racist by Alan Sked who founded UKIP. Philip is not a Conservative.
    The proof the Brexit party was crypto-fascist rests in what they did after Brexit. When three million of them invaded Poland.

    Oh wait, no. After Brexit they effectively disbanded. So they couldn't have been crypto-fascist. They just wanted Brexit.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 6,232

    Getting a flu vaccine slashes the risk of falling severely ill with Covid, a study has suggested.

    An analysis of nearly 75,000 coronavirus patients found those who received an annual influenza jab were 60 per cent less likely to end up in A&E compared to people not vaccinated against flu.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9779765/Getting-flu-jab-slashes-risk-hospitalised-Covid-60-study-finds.html

    That seems a bit strange doesn't it - given that many oldies who have died would surely have had the flu jab?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 9,050

    glw said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    It shows that no matter how eminent you may be, you can also be a total moron.
    I have met a few novelists. I think being a moron is a requirement. They live in a sad fantasy world where they can play God (particularly in Pullman's case) with their creation. If they manage to get a publisher and a modicum of success they begin to feel they are god, even though everyone else knows they are a moron.

    The difference between novelists and God is that God doesn't think he is a novelist.
    That last line is very good! Are you a novelist?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002
    TOPPING said:

    @HYUFD in your unthinking relay of the Elphicke tweet you have highlighted an interesting point.

    It was a totally fucking stupid thing to say, as we all pointed out to you last night. But your response is "well the Tories love it and agree with it".

    And there you have a great example of what we have been saying wrt the Conservatives right now. The Tories are justifying policy simply because it is popular. Not because it is right and even, in the Rashford example, when it is manifestly, obviously wrong.

    That is where you have taken the Conservative Party to and you should be ashamed.

    Actually technically it is not popular with all voters, most voters backed Rashford's campaign, it is only Tory voters who had a plurality opposed to it but she was elected as a Tory MP
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 62,763
    edited July 12
    Stocky said:

    Getting a flu vaccine slashes the risk of falling severely ill with Covid, a study has suggested.

    An analysis of nearly 75,000 coronavirus patients found those who received an annual influenza jab were 60 per cent less likely to end up in A&E compared to people not vaccinated against flu.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9779765/Getting-flu-jab-slashes-risk-hospitalised-Covid-60-study-finds.html

    That seems a bit strange doesn't it - given that many oldies who have died would surely have had the flu jab?
    It says, it doesn't reduce death if you suffer severely, but it does appear to reduce numbers where it goes from bad to severe. We know with COVID that there is a week period where you are ill, then for most people it just gets better, for others, you go downhill rapidly.

    I presume, there is some sort of protective effect from the flu jab that reduces the overall numbers where they went downhill.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 58,366

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign
    So you're saying she is a liar making a false apology, rather than that she feels she made an error in her comment?

    An interesting way to stick up for a party colleague.
    He can never say the word sorry and now he is throwing a colleague to the wolves

    She has made a genuine apology and demonstrates to @HYUFD how it is done but he is too pig headed and stupid to realise it
    I am not going to apologise for holding a view most of my fellow Tory voters hold ie they opposed Rashford's campaign, yes it was a but of a cheap comment but unlike you I do not always give in to the left while huffing and puffing about how awful Boris is and then voting for him anyway!
    Since you normally have an opinion poll to back whatever viewpoint you want, even if other polls say differently, have you got an opinion poll showing most Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign?

    Or are you making that up?

    This Tory voter supported his campaign and called for the government to u-turn on this site before they did. Which is funny given how often I'm farcically accused of being a "fanboy" or even "CCHQ". 🙄
    Yes Yougov

    47% of 2019 Tory voters opposed Rashford's campaign, only 42% in favour.

    By contrast 71% of Labour voters backed Rashford's campaign as did 67% of LD voters
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20

    Given you voted for Blair in 2001 as did BigG when I was campaigning for Hague and the Tories you are hardly either diehard Tories anyway
    Philip also voted for the crypto-fascist Brexit Party; a party founded by Farage who has been described as openly racist by Alan Sked who founded UKIP. Philip is not a Conservative.
    Crypto-fascist?

    I voted for there to be no MEPs and for Farage to be sacked from the European Parliament. I also voted for the racist xenophobe Theresa May to be sacked.

    Please show me a single racist or fascist policy of the Brexit Party in 2019.

    The BXP in 2019 wasn't a party, it was a self destruct button to expel our MEPs from Brussels. It had no policies and no politics other than respect the 2016 referendum which an antidemocratic zealot like yourself clearly struggles to understand.

    BXP now is a party that shouldn't exist and I hold no truck for.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 7,701
    Leon said:

    glw said:

    @HugoGye
    This is surely true, the Tories know the best path to re-election would be destroying the NHS and killing elderly voters.


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1414545579196231684
    image

    It shows that no matter how eminent you may be, you can also be a total moron.
    I have met a few novelists. I think being a moron is a requirement. They live in a sad fantasy world where they can play God (particularly in Pullman's case) with their creation. If they manage to get a publisher and a modicum of success they begin to feel they are god, even though everyone else knows they are a moron.

    The difference between novelists and God is that God doesn't think he is a novelist.
    That last line is very good! Are you a novelist?
    Apparently there is a novel in all of us. Some of us have the good sense to keep it there.
  • eekeek Posts: 13,645
    edited July 12
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    From the Manchester Evening News

    Conservative MP Natalie Elphicke has apologised after saying Marcus Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game than playing politics

    BBC said the Dover MP has now apologised saying last night I shared the frustration and heartbreak of millions of England fans

    'I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on football'

    Our own @HYUFD said the same objectionable comments and it is time for him to make his own apology

    I am so sorry for Rashford , Sancho and Saka for missing their spot kicks and need to have the love and understanding of our nation, not bigots and idiots making unacceptable comments either on here or on the media generally

    It was pleasing to see how all the England players hugged their colleagues in distress, in marked contrast to Mbappe colleagues who virtually shunned him when he missed his penalty for France

    Ever decent person in the country should have great love and affection for England, it's management and players as they look to grow together over the years into a great side

    And well done Gareth Southgate
    Yes I may have made a cheap point and said so too but there is no doubt a lot of Tories have felt Rashford has spent too much time campaigning on a political line they disagree with.

    As I posted earlier 47% of Tory voters disagreed with Rashford's campaign for free school meals to be extended to the holidays to only 40% in favour
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1317126424587833344?s=20
    You always need to qualify your statements

    Why not be like Natalie Elphicke who has made a straightforward unqualified apology for the same thoughtless comments
    Elphicke only apologised because of her high profile as an MP and the storm around it from the left on twitter, she would not have made the comment in the first place if she did not think it and as I have just posted many if not most of her Tory voters will have backed her in opposing Rashford's campaign as that Yougov polling data shows
    Lets be clear. 47% of Tory voters disagreed with feeding hungry kids. A significant number of whom are the same WWC they complain are discriminated against by taking the knee.

    Same with the education committee Tories horrified at the poor attainment of WWC pupils yet seem to think that repeatedly voting to reduce funding for the schools they go to, repeatedly attacking teachers and exams (too easy) and voting to keep them dirt poor (no we won't keep feeding them in the holidays, we can't afford it).

    I would have more respect for them if they were open about it. We don't like poor people and won't pay for them. The likes of Ben Bradley get mocked when they say poor people will spend handout cash on drugs but at least he is open. the rest are frit.
    It was only free school meals in the holidays they opposed not free school meals in term time when at school, I support that but in the holidays parents get benefits to feed their children if out of work or on a low income
    They get the "benefits" in term time as well. And yet the schools still need to feed them and sometimes clothe them. Blame the parents if you like, but the people who suffer are the children. Who then do poorly at school causing you and yours to then pretend to care about the consequences of your actions.

    Just be clear with everyone, it makes like much easier. You and yours don't care about these kids, don't care about their life chances, and don't think you should pay for them.
    If it is the school holidays then by definition they are not at school.

    As I said I agree with free school meals during term time when they are at school
    Yes, they're not at school. Turning term time the schools need to feed them. Who do you think is feeding them in the holidays? It isn't the parents, that's the whole point.
    Unless they are orphans, living with another family member or in care then yes their parents will be feeding them and in the holidays they get benefits for that if on low incomes or out of work
    You get the same benefits on during school holidays that you get during termtime, but have five extra meals a week to find per child.
    And in term time you do not have to buy 5 lunches for your child at all
    Not if they are on free school meals as those meals are paid for by the Government who pay the school for to provide a FREE meal to those children.

    I don't think yesterday's accidently racist post is the one we need to destroy your political career the one above shows a complete inability to think things through at all.

    I've posted and explained this before - our benefits system is based on people being able to budget and plan.

    A long time ago it was discovered that that wasn't always the case so processes were created in school to fix some problems created by dysfunctional families (so Free School dinners and more recently breakfast clubs). The problem is that the same problems still occur during holiday time when the schools don't step in.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 67,035

    Stocky said:

    Getting a flu vaccine slashes the risk of falling severely ill with Covid, a study has suggested.

    An analysis of nearly 75,000 coronavirus patients found those who received an annual influenza jab were 60 per cent less likely to end up in A&E compared to people not vaccinated against flu.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9779765/Getting-flu-jab-slashes-risk-hospitalised-Covid-60-study-finds.html

    That seems a bit strange doesn't it - given that many oldies who have died would surely have had the flu jab?
    It says, it doesn't reduce death if you suffer severely, but it does appear to reduce numbers where it goes from bad to severe. We know with COVID that there is a week period where you are ill, then for most people it just gets better, for others, you go downhill rapidly.

    I presume, there is some sort of protective effect from the flu jab that reduces the overall numbers where they went downhill.
    How do you get hold of the flu jab in your forties ?
    Asking for a friend.
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