The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Literally every country is doing it. Japan has set up a ¥1tn fund just for EV semi-conductors, our supposed £500m is a joke in comparison. The US fund is said to be over $100bn. Governments across the world are accelerating net zero day, this is the result of that decision.
I'm amazed that with such tiny numbers the government has now got two EV deals and two gigafactories. It bodes well for the country that we're able to get these done without the mega billions some industry people said would be necessary.
Where is the second gigafactory - Stellantis aren't currently building one here and the only announced one I'm aware of is Sunderland / Nissan.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Literally every country is doing it. Japan has set up a ¥1tn fund just for EV semi-conductors, our supposed £500m is a joke in comparison. The US fund is said to be over $100bn. Governments across the world are accelerating net zero day, this is the result of that decision.
I'm amazed that with such tiny numbers the government has now got two EV deals and two gigafactories. It bodes well for the country that we're able to get these done without the mega billions some industry people said would be necessary.
Where is the second gigafactory - Stellantis aren't currently building one here and the only announced one I'm aware of is Sunderland / Nissan.
Britishvolt, they're set to announce a move into the next stage of their plan.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Literally every country is doing it. Japan has set up a ¥1tn fund just for EV semi-conductors, our supposed £500m is a joke in comparison. The US fund is said to be over $100bn. Governments across the world are accelerating net zero day, this is the result of that decision.
I'm amazed that with such tiny numbers the government has now got two EV deals and two gigafactories. It bodes well for the country that we're able to get these done without the mega billions some industry people said would be necessary.
No, I think the incentives for battery factories are about par for the course - wafer fabs are quite another order of things. Note both the Nissan and Stellantis plants are relatively small. Nissan may expand their plans, but will probably hold out for more money before they do so. The difference between us and the other major economies is that we're a few years behind in starting to build these things.
I can assure you that Emma Raducanu's match was scheduled to be last on court 1 purely for the tv ratings. They do this with British players to catch the 6pm - 8pm (and now that they have the two roofs, later) slots. As you know, under local regs they can play under the lights until 11pm sharp.
Many of the ladies singles were scheduled first on courts e.g. Elena Rybakina (21) was played at 11 am. Three other ladies matches went through first thing on Centre and No.1.
The BBC's eyes lit up and they shunted all the BBC1 programmes off to BBC2 and brought Emma's match onto BBC1.
It was a god-awful decision to schedule a young inexperienced girl like that.
I've been listening to the debate on this. McEnroe made out with some reasonable-sounding comments. Gets excoriated by various personalities on The Opinion aka The Newspapers. This morning tennis experts seem to be saying the same as McEnroe.
Checking, Raducanu has been on the full LTA support system for a long time, has her own quite eminent support team (eg Nigel Spears for the last 3 years), and has been winning tournaments internationally since 2018.
Not really inexperienced.
In tennis almost half the draw is inexperienced in terms of playing in front of main court Grand Slam crowds. The tournaments Raducanu won would have had tiny crowds in comparison, perhaps hundreds for the final and tens for the early rounds, mostly coaches and other players. The only way to get experience is to do it and 18 is fine.
GB have a 12 year old realistic medal hope in the Olympics, and that does feel wrong, however good she is.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Not really - once again this is a time of major upheaval in the car market due to structural changes. Governments worldwide are focussing on production capacity has way more to do with economic cycles and Covid than anything to do with Brexit.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Yeah because the industry is moving from petrol and diesel to electrical powertrains en masse. I guess if you want to hack a Brexit narrative in it then a lot of that is because of VW and their dodgy diesels which has forced the whole industry to dump diesel 10 years earlier than expected.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Literally every country is doing it. Japan has set up a ¥1tn fund just for EV semi-conductors, our supposed £500m is a joke in comparison. The US fund is said to be over $100bn. Governments across the world are accelerating net zero day, this is the result of that decision.
I'm amazed that with such tiny numbers the government has now got two EV deals and two gigafactories. It bodes well for the country that we're able to get these done without the mega billions some industry people said would be necessary.
Where is the second gigafactory - Stellantis aren't currently building one here and the only announced one I'm aware of is Sunderland / Nissan.
Britishvolt, they're set to announce a move into the next stage of their plan.
That was what I feared you were going to to say - I know some people who believe that scheme is a complete scam and I'm starting to believe they may be right...
Johnson continues to have the wrong approach to virus controls IMO, but the consequences won't be as deadly this time as on previous occasions. The correct approach is "as much as is necessary; as little as possible", where there can be reasonable debate about what necessary and possible should be.
Johnson doesn't exactly tell people to go out and get infected, it will all be fine. But he also doesn't say, this virus is still out there and we need to be careful, because that cuts across his desire to declare freedom.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Literally every country is doing it. Japan has set up a ¥1tn fund just for EV semi-conductors, our supposed £500m is a joke in comparison. The US fund is said to be over $100bn. Governments across the world are accelerating net zero day, this is the result of that decision.
I'm amazed that with such tiny numbers the government has now got two EV deals and two gigafactories. It bodes well for the country that we're able to get these done without the mega billions some industry people said would be necessary.
No, I think the incentives for battery factories are about par for the course - wafer fabs are quite another order of things. Note both the Nissan and Stellantis plants are relatively small. Nissan may expand their plans, but will probably hold out for more money before they do so. The difference between us and the other major economies is that we're a few years behind in starting to build these things.
A huge factor in it has been our lack of a subsidy scheme. We're playing catch up with the US states and EU countries that have been falling over themselves to hand EV manufacturing billions in incentives and benefits. As I said our £500m is laughable in comparison.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Yeah because the industry is moving from petrol and diesel to electrical powertrains en masse. I guess if you want to hack a Brexit narrative in it then a lot of that is because of VW and their dodgy diesels which has forced the whole industry to dump diesel 10 years earlier than expected.
I hadn’t realised (or had forgotten), but the gilet jaune movement - analogous in some ways to Brexitism - was sparked by a hamfisted attempt by Macron to raise steep taxes on diesel.
Is there any evidence to suggest that intelligence falls as you move from first born through to last born?
Asking for a friend.
There is certainly some evidence of a very slight impact. Not read the literature to understand how conclusive it is, will leave that to my older brother, who can probably do it better........
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Yeah because the industry is moving from petrol and diesel to electrical powertrains en masse. I guess if you want to hack a Brexit narrative in it then a lot of that is because of VW and their dodgy diesels which has forced the whole industry to dump diesel 10 years earlier than expected.
I hadn’t realised (or had forgotten), but the gilet jaune movement - analogous in some ways to Brexitism - was sparked by a hamfisted attempt by Macron to raise steep taxes on diesel.
Honestly mate, you need to move on from Brexit. I mean you're a kiwi right, I don't even know why you care so much?
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Literally every country is doing it. Japan has set up a ¥1tn fund just for EV semi-conductors, our supposed £500m is a joke in comparison. The US fund is said to be over $100bn. Governments across the world are accelerating net zero day, this is the result of that decision.
I'm amazed that with such tiny numbers the government has now got two EV deals and two gigafactories. It bodes well for the country that we're able to get these done without the mega billions some industry people said would be necessary.
No, I think the incentives for battery factories are about par for the course - wafer fabs are quite another order of things. Note both the Nissan and Stellantis plants are relatively small. Nissan may expand their plans, but will probably hold out for more money before they do so. The difference between us and the other major economies is that we're a few years behind in starting to build these things.
A huge factor in it has been our lack of a subsidy scheme. We're playing catch up with the US states and EU countries that have been falling over themselves to hand EV manufacturing billions in incentives and benefits. As I said our £500m is laughable in comparison.
Agreed - I've been banging on about our lack of investment in new manufacturing tech for years. S Korea exported over $4bn of batteries in the first half of this year, and yet they still look at it as a nascent industry which needs government aid: https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/tech/2021/07/693_311643.html
The Armed Forces' 'mental health champion' is being investigated over claims of an affair with the wife of a junior soldier who approached him for help.
Does the Mail know the difference between a Major and a RSM?
He's neither, he's a WO1 but was commissioned as OF-2 (Captain) when was ASM.
Have you seen (or edited) his Wikipedia page?
Warrant Officer Class One Glenn John Haughton, OBE (born May 1972) is a senior British Army soldier. Since November 2018, he has served as the Senior Enlisted Advisor to the Chiefs of Staff Committee. From March 2015 to 2018, he was the Army Sergeant Major, the most senior warrant officer and member of the other ranks in the British Army. He is a filthy, backstabbing rat and not to be trusted. He was previously Regimental Sergeant Major of the 1st Battalion, Grenadier Guards and Academy Sergeant Major at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Haughton
I am exceedingly liberal about people’s private lives but in this particular context, Warrant Office Haughton should be expelled from the Army.
Then so should Prince Charles who had an affair with the wife of a brother officer.
Christopher Snowdon @cjsnowdon · 10h Find me anyone - scientist, politician, pundit, anyone - who said in January that we should still have restrictions in August even if two-thirds of adults were double jabbed and 86% had had one jab.
Christ. How infantile can you get, and not get thrown off twitter as suspected paedophile bait? In January delta was just a letter in the alphabet, or the bit north of Cairo. How hard is it to grasp that the future is unknowable and that in January, July is the future? But Daddy, you said we were nearly there!
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Literally every country is doing it. Japan has set up a ¥1tn fund just for EV semi-conductors, our supposed £500m is a joke in comparison. The US fund is said to be over $100bn. Governments across the world are accelerating net zero day, this is the result of that decision.
I'm amazed that with such tiny numbers the government has now got two EV deals and two gigafactories. It bodes well for the country that we're able to get these done without the mega billions some industry people said would be necessary.
Where is the second gigafactory - Stellantis aren't currently building one here and the only announced one I'm aware of is Sunderland / Nissan.
The FIAT E-Ducato, which I think is the same van as the one intended for Ellesmere Port is built in two factories in Italy. The coachwork is done in Southern Italy and the assembly is then shipped to Turin for insertion of the motorisation. It is possible Ellesmere Port will do the coachwork and the assembly then shipped to somewhere in the EU for the battery and motor.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Literally every country is doing it. Japan has set up a ¥1tn fund just for EV semi-conductors, our supposed £500m is a joke in comparison. The US fund is said to be over $100bn. Governments across the world are accelerating net zero day, this is the result of that decision.
I'm amazed that with such tiny numbers the government has now got two EV deals and two gigafactories. It bodes well for the country that we're able to get these done without the mega billions some industry people said would be necessary.
Where is the second gigafactory - Stellantis aren't currently building one here and the only announced one I'm aware of is Sunderland / Nissan.
Britishvolt, they're set to announce a move into the next stage of their plan.
That was what I feared you were going to to say - I know some people who believe that scheme is a complete scam and I'm starting to believe they may be right...
What makes you think that ? A few people I used to work with I know on LinkedIn have got jobs at Coventry facility.
Is there any evidence to suggest that intelligence falls as you move from first born through to last born?
Asking for a friend.
There is certainly some evidence of a very slight impact. Not read the literature to understand how conclusive it is, will leave that to my older brother, who can probably do it better........
The research suggests that greater parental attention to the first child creates developmental disparities which persist. Though there are many confounding factors, and any effect is as you say pretty small.
The Armed Forces' 'mental health champion' is being investigated over claims of an affair with the wife of a junior soldier who approached him for help.
Does the Mail know the difference between a Major and a RSM?
He's neither, he's a WO1 but was commissioned as OF-2 (Captain) when was ASM.
Have you seen (or edited) his Wikipedia page?
Warrant Officer Class One Glenn John Haughton, OBE (born May 1972) is a senior British Army soldier. Since November 2018, he has served as the Senior Enlisted Advisor to the Chiefs of Staff Committee. From March 2015 to 2018, he was the Army Sergeant Major, the most senior warrant officer and member of the other ranks in the British Army. He is a filthy, backstabbing rat and not to be trusted. He was previously Regimental Sergeant Major of the 1st Battalion, Grenadier Guards and Academy Sergeant Major at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Haughton
I am exceedingly liberal about people’s private lives but in this particular context, Warrant Office Haughton should be expelled from the Army.
Then so should Prince Charles who had an affair with the wife of a brother officer.
One rule for them, one rule for the plebs.
Not really - I don't think Camilla went to Prince Charles because of his job in the army.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
And Brexit has made those “incentives” even pricier.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
There is still talk of a Tesla factory here. Either in Somerset or Teeside.
I think Tesla's star may finally be in the descendant as the legacy OEMs are finally starting to do BEVs better from an engineering and production perspective. The VW ID4 has much simpler powertrain (less bearings, no oil pump or filter) compared to a Tesla 3.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
I don’t see it in those terms. Automotive is cyclical due to the nature of new product development and launches. We also,have the drive (no pun) to non fossil fuel means of propulsion. Before Brexit JLR got a pot of cash and help for their engine plant in Wolverhampton.
The Armed Forces' 'mental health champion' is being investigated over claims of an affair with the wife of a junior soldier who approached him for help.
Does the Mail know the difference between a Major and a RSM?
He's neither, he's a WO1 but was commissioned as OF-2 (Captain) when was ASM.
Have you seen (or edited) his Wikipedia page?
Warrant Officer Class One Glenn John Haughton, OBE (born May 1972) is a senior British Army soldier. Since November 2018, he has served as the Senior Enlisted Advisor to the Chiefs of Staff Committee. From March 2015 to 2018, he was the Army Sergeant Major, the most senior warrant officer and member of the other ranks in the British Army. He is a filthy, backstabbing rat and not to be trusted. He was previously Regimental Sergeant Major of the 1st Battalion, Grenadier Guards and Academy Sergeant Major at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Haughton
I am exceedingly liberal about people’s private lives but in this particular context, Warrant Office Haughton should be expelled from the Army.
Then so should Prince Charles who had an affair with the wife of a brother officer.
One rule for them, one rule for the plebs.
Not really - I don't think Camilla went to Prince Charles because of his job in the army.
But James Hewitt was banned from all army bases and reunions for doing the same thing as Prince Charles.
Last night I watched the first episode of “1971:The Year That Music Changed Everything” on Apple+.
Bloody brilliant.
By the director of “Amy” and “Senna”.
These sorts of music documentaries can be quite cliched, but this is more ambitious and they’ve very cleverly interwoven the music and politics, with some great footage.
Based on a British book, and with a British director; sad in a way that it is for a US network and hence US-focused.
1971 was probably peak pop year (for albums; I’d put 1967 as peak for singles).
At the risk of sounding particularly old, the history of the second half of the twentieth century can be written with pop music, such was pop music's ubiquity in western culture. I love documentaries of this sort.
For me, the peak was 1977-1984.
Pop music hasn't gone away, but it has splintered. We can consume what we like now, and the cultural importance of the top 40 is much reduced. I don't want to go down a 'they don't write em like they used to' route - my view is that there is more good music around now than ever - but the cultural importance of any of it is much diminished, as we can all pick and choose the niches we want and remain utterly ignorant of the mainstream - if there is such a thing as mainstream any more.
I can assure you that Emma Raducanu's match was scheduled to be last on court 1 purely for the tv ratings. They do this with British players to catch the 6pm - 8pm (and now that they have the two roofs, later) slots. As you know, under local regs they can play under the lights until 11pm sharp.
Many of the ladies singles were scheduled first on courts e.g. Elena Rybakina (21) was played at 11 am. Three other ladies matches went through first thing on Centre and No.1.
The BBC's eyes lit up and they shunted all the BBC1 programmes off to BBC2 and brought Emma's match onto BBC1.
It was a god-awful decision to schedule a young inexperienced girl like that.
I've been listening to the debate on this. McEnroe made out with some reasonable-sounding comments. Gets excoriated by various personalities on The Opinion aka The Newspapers. This morning tennis experts seem to be saying the same as McEnroe.
Checking, Raducanu has been on the full LTA support system for a long time, has her own quite eminent support team (eg Nigel Spears for the last 3 years), and has been winning tournaments internationally since 2018.
Not really inexperienced.
Its unfortunate that the start was so late, but in reality the players would not that the match would not start before a certain time (as third match, even if the first two were quick, the match would not have been before say 5 pm, and mandated as such). However the courts and playing order are changed by the club to maximise the 'best' games, and has led in the past to some high profile players complaining about being on the outside courts, as other games get pushed to No 1 or Centre. In reality its a set back for her, but the overall experience will have been magnificent and lucrative, and she looks likely to be a decent player.
The Armed Forces' 'mental health champion' is being investigated over claims of an affair with the wife of a junior soldier who approached him for help.
Does the Mail know the difference between a Major and a RSM?
He's neither, he's a WO1 but was commissioned as OF-2 (Captain) when was ASM.
Have you seen (or edited) his Wikipedia page?
Warrant Officer Class One Glenn John Haughton, OBE (born May 1972) is a senior British Army soldier. Since November 2018, he has served as the Senior Enlisted Advisor to the Chiefs of Staff Committee. From March 2015 to 2018, he was the Army Sergeant Major, the most senior warrant officer and member of the other ranks in the British Army. He is a filthy, backstabbing rat and not to be trusted. He was previously Regimental Sergeant Major of the 1st Battalion, Grenadier Guards and Academy Sergeant Major at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Haughton
I am exceedingly liberal about people’s private lives but in this particular context, Warrant Office Haughton should be expelled from the Army.
Then so should Prince Charles who had an affair with the wife of a brother officer.
One rule for them, one rule for the plebs.
Not really - I don't think Camilla went to Prince Charles because of his job in the army.
But James Hewitt was banned from all army bases and reunions for doing the same thing as Prince Charles.
I can assure you that Emma Raducanu's match was scheduled to be last on court 1 purely for the tv ratings. They do this with British players to catch the 6pm - 8pm (and now that they have the two roofs, later) slots. As you know, under local regs they can play under the lights until 11pm sharp.
Many of the ladies singles were scheduled first on courts e.g. Elena Rybakina (21) was played at 11 am. Three other ladies matches went through first thing on Centre and No.1.
The BBC's eyes lit up and they shunted all the BBC1 programmes off to BBC2 and brought Emma's match onto BBC1.
It was a god-awful decision to schedule a young inexperienced girl like that.
I've been listening to the debate on this. McEnroe made out with some reasonable-sounding comments. Gets excoriated by various personalities on The Opinion aka The Newspapers. This morning tennis experts seem to be saying the same as McEnroe.
Checking, Raducanu has been on the full LTA support system for a long time, has her own quite eminent support team (eg Nigel Spears for the last 3 years), and has been winning tournaments internationally since 2018.
Not really inexperienced.
In tennis almost half the draw is inexperienced in terms of playing in front of main court Grand Slam crowds. The tournaments Raducanu won would have had tiny crowds in comparison, perhaps hundreds for the final and tens for the early rounds, mostly coaches and other players. The only way to get experience is to do it and 18 is fine.
GB have a 12 year old realistic medal hope in the Olympics, and that does feel wrong, however good she is.
Cori Gauff is only 17, and she lost on centre court yesterday.
ETA and wasn't Boris Becker 17 when he first won Wimbledon?
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Literally every country is doing it. Japan has set up a ¥1tn fund just for EV semi-conductors, our supposed £500m is a joke in comparison. The US fund is said to be over $100bn. Governments across the world are accelerating net zero day, this is the result of that decision.
I'm amazed that with such tiny numbers the government has now got two EV deals and two gigafactories. It bodes well for the country that we're able to get these done without the mega billions some industry people said would be necessary.
Where is the second gigafactory - Stellantis aren't currently building one here and the only announced one I'm aware of is Sunderland / Nissan.
Britishvolt, they're set to announce a move into the next stage of their plan.
I hope all those British Volts will come with a Union flag on them...
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
I don’t see it in those terms. Automotive is cyclical due to the nature of new product development and launches. We also,have the drive (no pun) to non fossil fuel means of propulsion. Before Brexit JLR got a pot of cash and help for their engine plant in Wolverhampton.
And what an engine they built with it. An eBay quality copy of a BMW B38/48/58 with Fiat valve gear.
Police officers involved in the stopping, searching and handcuffing of the British sprinter Bianca Williams and her partner are now under investigation for gross misconduct over alleged racism and dishonesty, the Guardian has learned.
Williams and Ricardo dos Santos were stopped on 4 July last year in north-west London by officers from the Metropolitan police’s Territorial Support Group.
They were searched on suspicion of having drugs and weapons, with none found, while their three-month-old son was in the back seat.
The investigation by the Independent Office for Police Conduct began into lower-level misconduct claims against five officers.
But in an intensification of the proceedings, the formal investigation has now become more serious after new evidence was unearthed by investigators.
Three Met officers have been notified by the IOPC they are under investigation for gross misconduct. If proven, the maximum penalty is dismissal.
It’s struck me these last few days: how deeply fortunate we are to be European.
Fly for ~2 hours from london and you can be in Seville, Lisbon, Venice, the alps, the Cyclades, the Nordic fjords - or Berlin, Barcelona, Biarritz, the Basque Country. The Balearics.
The Hebrides, Brittany, the Black Forest; Naples and northumberland, Amsterdam and county Kerry, Paris and penzance.
What a wealth. And it is our backyard and our backstory, our patrimony and our inheritance. A place where no one starves and health care is humane. The most beautiful, cultured, civilised place on earth by an enormous distance. Covid-19, with its terrible restrictions on travel, really rams that home. If you have to be restricted to anywhere, you’d want it to be Europe
The Remain campaign really did a terrible job
I agree. The advertising campaign got it terribly wrong. It should have been an appeal to the heart. The cultural and romantic aspects of Europe were simply ignored and instead we were served an unintelligible diet of cost analyses. A game for any number of players played without rules.
Indeed.
I was thinking the same thing yesterday whilst out hiking. The EU should have love-bombed the UK. Offered sweeteners (bribes) and really gone big on the incentives.
As ever though they went for the stick approach instead of the carrot.
Lo and behold, this morning up pops an article on that very same theme about the EU's failure to sink the City of London.
A very typical Telegraph article. I have no idea about it's accuracy-it feels very slanted-but the whole tone is sneering mean spirited and reminds you what you loathe about the newspaper and it's writers.
I can assure you that Emma Raducanu's match was scheduled to be last on court 1 purely for the tv ratings. They do this with British players to catch the 6pm - 8pm (and now that they have the two roofs, later) slots. As you know, under local regs they can play under the lights until 11pm sharp.
Many of the ladies singles were scheduled first on courts e.g. Elena Rybakina (21) was played at 11 am. Three other ladies matches went through first thing on Centre and No.1.
The BBC's eyes lit up and they shunted all the BBC1 programmes off to BBC2 and brought Emma's match onto BBC1.
It was a god-awful decision to schedule a young inexperienced girl like that.
I've been listening to the debate on this. McEnroe made out with some reasonable-sounding comments. Gets excoriated by various personalities on The Opinion aka The Newspapers. This morning tennis experts seem to be saying the same as McEnroe.
Checking, Raducanu has been on the full LTA support system for a long time, has her own quite eminent support team (eg Nigel Spears for the last 3 years), and has been winning tournaments internationally since 2018.
Not really inexperienced.
In tennis almost half the draw is inexperienced in terms of playing in front of main court Grand Slam crowds. The tournaments Raducanu won would have had tiny crowds in comparison, perhaps hundreds for the final and tens for the early rounds, mostly coaches and other players. The only way to get experience is to do it and 18 is fine.
GB have a 12 year old realistic medal hope in the Olympics, and that does feel wrong, however good she is.
In skateboarding, which by my definition of sport, is not a sport (see also synchronised swimming, diving, gymnastics - basically anything which needs a judge to determine the outcome)
The Armed Forces' 'mental health champion' is being investigated over claims of an affair with the wife of a junior soldier who approached him for help.
Does the Mail know the difference between a Major and a RSM?
He's neither, he's a WO1 but was commissioned as OF-2 (Captain) when was ASM.
Have you seen (or edited) his Wikipedia page?
Warrant Officer Class One Glenn John Haughton, OBE (born May 1972) is a senior British Army soldier. Since November 2018, he has served as the Senior Enlisted Advisor to the Chiefs of Staff Committee. From March 2015 to 2018, he was the Army Sergeant Major, the most senior warrant officer and member of the other ranks in the British Army. He is a filthy, backstabbing rat and not to be trusted. He was previously Regimental Sergeant Major of the 1st Battalion, Grenadier Guards and Academy Sergeant Major at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Haughton
I am exceedingly liberal about people’s private lives but in this particular context, Warrant Office Haughton should be expelled from the Army.
Then so should Prince Charles who had an affair with the wife of a brother officer.
One rule for them, one rule for the plebs.
Not really - I don't think Camilla went to Prince Charles because of his job in the army.
But James Hewitt was banned from all army bases and reunions for doing the same thing as Prince Charles.
No, for telling about it. Big big big diff.
Charles told the world about his fornication and adultery with Mrs Parkes-Bowles in an interview.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Yeah because the industry is moving from petrol and diesel to electrical powertrains en masse. I guess if you want to hack a Brexit narrative in it then a lot of that is because of VW and their dodgy diesels which has forced the whole industry to dump diesel 10 years earlier than expected.
I hadn’t realised (or had forgotten), but the gilet jaune movement - analogous in some ways to Brexitism - was sparked by a hamfisted attempt by Macron to raise steep taxes on diesel.
Honestly mate, you need to move on from Brexit. I mean you're a kiwi right, I don't even know why you care so much?
As a quasi-outsider I can see perhaps more clearly how deranged it is. Besides, like any historical phenomenon it is open to endless interpretations.
You might as well ask why people don’t move on from the French Revolution.
It’s struck me these last few days: how deeply fortunate we are to be European.
Fly for ~2 hours from london and you can be in Seville, Lisbon, Venice, the alps, the Cyclades, the Nordic fjords - or Berlin, Barcelona, Biarritz, the Basque Country. The Balearics.
The Hebrides, Brittany, the Black Forest; Naples and northumberland, Amsterdam and county Kerry, Paris and penzance.
What a wealth. And it is our backyard and our backstory, our patrimony and our inheritance. A place where no one starves and health care is humane. The most beautiful, cultured, civilised place on earth by an enormous distance. Covid-19, with its terrible restrictions on travel, really rams that home. If you have to be restricted to anywhere, you’d want it to be Europe
The Remain campaign really did a terrible job
I agree. The advertising campaign got it terribly wrong. It should have been an appeal to the heart. The cultural and romantic aspects of Europe were simply ignored and instead we were served an unintelligible diet of cost analyses. A game for any number of players played without rules.
Indeed.
I was thinking the same thing yesterday whilst out hiking. The EU should have love-bombed the UK. Offered sweeteners (bribes) and really gone big on the incentives.
As ever though they went for the stick approach instead of the carrot.
Lo and behold, this morning up pops an article on that very same theme about the EU's failure to sink the City of London.
A very typical Telegraph article. I have no idea about it's accuracy-it feels very slanted-but the whole tone is sneering mean spirited and reminds you what you loathe about the newspaper and it's writers.
The Telegraph is a comic for the very old, very stupid, and very Tory.
It’s the “Express” for people who have a boot room.
I can assure you that Emma Raducanu's match was scheduled to be last on court 1 purely for the tv ratings. They do this with British players to catch the 6pm - 8pm (and now that they have the two roofs, later) slots. As you know, under local regs they can play under the lights until 11pm sharp.
Many of the ladies singles were scheduled first on courts e.g. Elena Rybakina (21) was played at 11 am. Three other ladies matches went through first thing on Centre and No.1.
The BBC's eyes lit up and they shunted all the BBC1 programmes off to BBC2 and brought Emma's match onto BBC1.
It was a god-awful decision to schedule a young inexperienced girl like that.
I've been listening to the debate on this. McEnroe made out with some reasonable-sounding comments. Gets excoriated by various personalities on The Opinion aka The Newspapers. This morning tennis experts seem to be saying the same as McEnroe.
Checking, Raducanu has been on the full LTA support system for a long time, has her own quite eminent support team (eg Nigel Spears for the last 3 years), and has been winning tournaments internationally since 2018.
Not really inexperienced.
In tennis almost half the draw is inexperienced in terms of playing in front of main court Grand Slam crowds. The tournaments Raducanu won would have had tiny crowds in comparison, perhaps hundreds for the final and tens for the early rounds, mostly coaches and other players. The only way to get experience is to do it and 18 is fine.
GB have a 12 year old realistic medal hope in the Olympics, and that does feel wrong, however good she is.
Cori Gauff is only 17, and she lost on centre court yesterday.
ETA and wasn't Boris Becker 17 when he first won Wimbledon?
If we are going back in time Capriati was 14 when she got to the French semi final and had already retired by the time she was 18! Came back more successfully in her mid twenties.
Christopher Snowdon @cjsnowdon · 10h Find me anyone - scientist, politician, pundit, anyone - who said in January that we should still have restrictions in August even if two-thirds of adults were double jabbed and 86% had had one jab.
Christ. How infantile can you get, and not get thrown off twitter as suspected paedophile bait? In January delta was just a letter in the alphabet, or the bit north of Cairo. How hard is it to grasp that the future is unknowable and that in January, July is the future? But Daddy, you said we were nearly there!
Thats an absolutely fair comment. However to extrapolate a bit - delta is taking off with the current restrictions in place, so to stop it, we'd need much tighter controls. MUCH tighter. I do think we are now at the point where the most vulnerable are as protected as possible by vaccination, and it is desirable to have the exit wave now, peaking over the school holidays, than try to vaccinate more and more. Obviously there is an issue with the secondary school kids and vaccination. I think I'd like it offered to them asap, but I understand the caution about this.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Literally every country is doing it. Japan has set up a ¥1tn fund just for EV semi-conductors, our supposed £500m is a joke in comparison. The US fund is said to be over $100bn. Governments across the world are accelerating net zero day, this is the result of that decision.
I'm amazed that with such tiny numbers the government has now got two EV deals and two gigafactories. It bodes well for the country that we're able to get these done without the mega billions some industry people said would be necessary.
Where is the second gigafactory - Stellantis aren't currently building one here and the only announced one I'm aware of is Sunderland / Nissan.
Britishvolt, they're set to announce a move into the next stage of their plan.
That was what I feared you were going to to say - I know some people who believe that scheme is a complete scam and I'm starting to believe they may be right...
It's an unusual outfit, literally started by two men and no dog. One of the men - the one who had some experience of battery manufacture - had to resign due to previous fraud convictions. Most battery plants are either owned by a major battery manufacturer or have investment from a car manufacturer. Britishvolt has neither. I think their business plan is that batteries will be in such demand, if they build, people will come.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
I don’t see it in those terms. Automotive is cyclical due to the nature of new product development and launches. We also,have the drive (no pun) to non fossil fuel means of propulsion. Before Brexit JLR got a pot of cash and help for their engine plant in Wolverhampton.
And what an engine they built with it. An eBay quality copy of a BMW B38/48/58 with Fiat valve gear.
Is there any evidence to suggest that intelligence falls as you move from first born through to last born?
Asking for a friend.
There is certainly some evidence of a very slight impact. Not read the literature to understand how conclusive it is, will leave that to my older brother, who can probably do it better........
The research suggests that greater parental attention to the first child creates developmental disparities which persist. Though there are many confounding factors, and any effect is as you say pretty small.
It's a fascinating question - have discussed it with my wife quite a bit in relation to our two young children. The first had more time having books read to him (in the day, but also after dinner every day I would do a few books with him when my wife was on maternity leave and had had him all day). Number two gets far less book reading time - the older and the younger both play together after dinner, although sometimes both settle down with a book. Number 2 nonetheless has developed speech a bit faster than number 1 - she definitely has more words at the same age, but then she does have number 1 chatting away at her continuously. There are also, of course, likely to be both entirely random and maybe sex differences.
Later children must get less parental attention, but get sibling interaction that is lacking for the first.
I'm the younger of two and much smarter than my older brother, imho (Seriously, we have very different minds, but very similar school and degree results albeit in different subjects)
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Yeah because the industry is moving from petrol and diesel to electrical powertrains en masse. I guess if you want to hack a Brexit narrative in it then a lot of that is because of VW and their dodgy diesels which has forced the whole industry to dump diesel 10 years earlier than expected.
I hadn’t realised (or had forgotten), but the gilet jaune movement - analogous in some ways to Brexitism - was sparked by a hamfisted attempt by Macron to raise steep taxes on diesel.
Honestly mate, you need to move on from Brexit. I mean you're a kiwi right, I don't even know why you care so much?
As a quasi-outsider I can see perhaps more clearly how deranged it is. Besides, like any historical phenomenon it is open to endless interpretations.
You might as well ask why people don’t move on from the French Revolution.
It is daft. We lost a lot through it. In years to come people will realise how valuable freedom of movement was. However it is done and Blair is correct in saying we need to make it work if we aim to rejoin as we need to do so in a strong position.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Yeah because the industry is moving from petrol and diesel to electrical powertrains en masse. I guess if you want to hack a Brexit narrative in it then a lot of that is because of VW and their dodgy diesels which has forced the whole industry to dump diesel 10 years earlier than expected.
I hadn’t realised (or had forgotten), but the gilet jaune movement - analogous in some ways to Brexitism - was sparked by a hamfisted attempt by Macron to raise steep taxes on diesel.
Honestly mate, you need to move on from Brexit. I mean you're a kiwi right, I don't even know why you care so much?
As a quasi-outsider I can see perhaps more clearly how deranged it is. Besides, like any historical phenomenon it is open to endless interpretations.
You might as well ask why people don’t move on from the French Revolution.
I had until you brought it up! Dammit, I can't stop thinking about it now. Poor Robespiere...
It’s struck me these last few days: how deeply fortunate we are to be European.
Fly for ~2 hours from london and you can be in Seville, Lisbon, Venice, the alps, the Cyclades, the Nordic fjords - or Berlin, Barcelona, Biarritz, the Basque Country. The Balearics.
The Hebrides, Brittany, the Black Forest; Naples and northumberland, Amsterdam and county Kerry, Paris and penzance.
What a wealth. And it is our backyard and our backstory, our patrimony and our inheritance. A place where no one starves and health care is humane. The most beautiful, cultured, civilised place on earth by an enormous distance. Covid-19, with its terrible restrictions on travel, really rams that home. If you have to be restricted to anywhere, you’d want it to be Europe
The Remain campaign really did a terrible job
I agree. The advertising campaign got it terribly wrong. It should have been an appeal to the heart. The cultural and romantic aspects of Europe were simply ignored and instead we were served an unintelligible diet of cost analyses. A game for any number of players played without rules.
I don't see why that would have helped. Paris or Venice or Barcelona are just as nice whether we're in the EU or not. And there are plenty of places outside the EU (for my money Istanbul, Luzern, Rio) which are just as nice, but which we don't subsidise with billions a year.
It's a harder to travel now between the EU and UK, regardless of covid I mean. It's very much harder to stay for an extended period.
I can see Leon's point that parts of Europe are lovely and it's pretty benign, which I think was the essence of his argument.
For me? Europe is a bit tame. I like to travel to places that are a little more exotic, especially out east.
And apart from the Canary Islands and Madeira, European winters are cold which I hate. Give me Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, the Pacific islands, any day.
It is of course true that it is much harder now to lounge around Europe forever, but I think over-emphasising that goal might have appealed to wealthy, upper-middle-class cosmopolitan Remainers. But I doubt it would have moved the needle much in middle England, and may even have put lots of people off.
I agree about long-haul travel - I tend to prefer it too and indeed am off on such a trip tomorrow.
Oh wow. Can I ask where you are headed? How wonderful.
There are quite of lot of northerners to be found on the sun loungers of southern Europe ...
Mexico City actually, then up into the United States as I have some business there. Back in September. Hopefully by then the US will be green list.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Yeah because the industry is moving from petrol and diesel to electrical powertrains en masse. I guess if you want to hack a Brexit narrative in it then a lot of that is because of VW and their dodgy diesels which has forced the whole industry to dump diesel 10 years earlier than expected.
I hadn’t realised (or had forgotten), but the gilet jaune movement - analogous in some ways to Brexitism - was sparked by a hamfisted attempt by Macron to raise steep taxes on diesel.
Honestly mate, you need to move on from Brexit. I mean you're a kiwi right, I don't even know why you care so much?
As a quasi-outsider I can see perhaps more clearly how deranged it is. Besides, like any historical phenomenon it is open to endless interpretations.
You might as well ask why people don’t move on from the French Revolution.
It is daft. We lost a lot through it. In years to come people will realise how valuable freedom of movement was. However it is done and Blair is correct in saying we need to make it work if we aim to rejoin as we need to do so in a strong position.
Blair is correct. Although I don’t think we should rejoin. At least not to “this” EU.
In fact I think we need to make a “better” EU. That would have been much easier inside the institution, but it would also have required some independence of thought and coherence of policy-making by successive governments.
The sole benefit that Brexit provides is the pressure - PERHAPS - to avoid complacency in our economic and geopolitical settlement.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Literally every country is doing it. Japan has set up a ¥1tn fund just for EV semi-conductors, our supposed £500m is a joke in comparison. The US fund is said to be over $100bn. Governments across the world are accelerating net zero day, this is the result of that decision.
I'm amazed that with such tiny numbers the government has now got two EV deals and two gigafactories. It bodes well for the country that we're able to get these done without the mega billions some industry people said would be necessary.
Where is the second gigafactory - Stellantis aren't currently building one here and the only announced one I'm aware of is Sunderland / Nissan.
Britishvolt, they're set to announce a move into the next stage of their plan.
That was what I feared you were going to to say - I know some people who believe that scheme is a complete scam and I'm starting to believe they may be right...
It's an unusual outfit, literally started by two men and no dog. One of the men - the one who had some experience of battery manufacture - had to resign due to previous fraud convictions. Most battery plants are either owned by a major battery manufacturer or have investment from a car manufacturer. Britishvolt has neither. I think their business plan is that batteries will be in such demand, if they build, people will come.
They do have a connection with the Faraday institute, so there's so technology knowhow in there. But they need to raise £2bn or so for a plant which is supposed to start construction this year, so it's already looking behind schedule. Last I saw, they were trying to do a SPAC deal in the US - Max might know more ?
The flag might encourage Boris to bung them a few million, I suppose.
On topic: 'gamble'? It's all a gamble. Keeping restrictions is a gamble with the economy, mental health, missed screening/detection of cancers, risking opening up in the autumn instead when there are other seasonal health pressures and when the children are cooped up in classrooms with 30 people. There's no perfect choice, but I think this is the least bad.
I don’t find labour’s (Ashworth on r4) arguments particularly convincing.
I think the tories are taking the country with them.
It seems Labour want some of the remaining restrictions to continue but not most of them. Given that current restrictions aren't stopping Delta from spreading I have no idea what Labour think hanging onto a handful of restrictions will achieve. Maybe delay the wave a few weeks, but why? Will it make much difference to vaccination? No. Will it prevent a further wave? No. Will it save many lives? No.
Delta is spreading fast, so if you are concerned about that you ought to be arguing for stronger restrictions, probably much stronger, not to whittle them down to a few that will have negligible effect.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
And Brexit has made those “incentives” even pricier.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
There is still talk of a Tesla factory here. Either in Somerset or Teeside.
I think Tesla's star may finally be in the descendant as the legacy OEMs are finally starting to do BEVs better from an engineering and production perspective. The VW ID4 has much simpler powertrain (less bearings, no oil pump or filter) compared to a Tesla 3.
Tesla Is much more than the cars now anyway. It is very much clean energy and battery storage.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they ditched car manufacture in the future.
I thought the only reason we delayed opening up completely was the worry over the variant formerly known as Indian being less resistant to the vaccines, so we bought a bit more time? Deaths haven’t gone up much, intensive cares are not overwhelmed, so why are people, including those who moaned when the re opening was delayed, calling it a gamble now?
Because the UK, almost uniquely in the developed world, seems to have Zerocovidians at the very highest level of public discourse.
It's a real shame. It's OK to have even 50,000 cases of Covid a day *if* they are not leading to particularly heightened levels of hospitalisations and deaths.
Indeed, it would probably be more useful for the government to target hospitalisations and deaths rather than cases per se, because the reality is that people *aren't* getting really sick right now, because the most vulnerable have been vaccinated.
Yes
Sir Keir is saying it’s reckless, it should be done gradually etc, but that is what’s happening! We were meant to be fully open a month earlier, but the government were cautious. I don’t see why he is calling for even more caution on the back of the vaccines working as intended. It really is a case of being paralysed by fear. I live with an unvaccinated vulnerable person, we have to be careful, but that doesn’t mean the whole of society has to join us
He’s thinking about it politically
If it goes well Boris was “reckless but lucky”
If it doesn’t then he capitalises on all the downside
It’s vile
Calling for an incremental approach, which was government policy until the conservatives lost a couple of by-elections, is hardly vile.
But this is an incremental approach. And Boris delayed the last stage by a month out of caution. Now we have more evidence that the vaccines work. So that argument doesn’t work
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Yeah because the industry is moving from petrol and diesel to electrical powertrains en masse. I guess if you want to hack a Brexit narrative in it then a lot of that is because of VW and their dodgy diesels which has forced the whole industry to dump diesel 10 years earlier than expected.
I hadn’t realised (or had forgotten), but the gilet jaune movement - analogous in some ways to Brexitism - was sparked by a hamfisted attempt by Macron to raise steep taxes on diesel.
Honestly mate, you need to move on from Brexit. I mean you're a kiwi right, I don't even know why you care so much?
As a quasi-outsider I can see perhaps more clearly how deranged it is. Besides, like any historical phenomenon it is open to endless interpretations.
You might as well ask why people don’t move on from the French Revolution.
It is daft. We lost a lot through it. In years to come people will realise how valuable freedom of movement was. However it is done and Blair is correct in saying we need to make it work if we aim to rejoin as we need to do so in a strong position.
Blair is correct. Although I don’t think we should rejoin. At least not to “this” EU.
In fact I think we need to make a “better” EU. That would have been much easier inside the institution, but it would also have required some independence of thought and coherence of policy-making by successive governments.
The sole benefit that Brexit provides is the pressure - PERHAPS - to avoid complacency in our economic and geopolitical settlement.
We have tried before to remake the EU in what the UK thought it should be, but I think it clear that that was not the vision of many of the other European leaders. So we left. We will miss many of the good things - ease of access to the markets, freedom of travel and so on. Other things less so, but we have made our bed and now must lie in it. Like with Covid its best to ignore the shrill on both sides of the debate (zero-covid vs let it rip), and try to build a new path. Something we often miss on PB is that many people just don't care. For them its done. They rarely think about politics. The audience on Question Time is not the population of the UK, its a very special subset.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Literally every country is doing it. Japan has set up a ¥1tn fund just for EV semi-conductors, our supposed £500m is a joke in comparison. The US fund is said to be over $100bn. Governments across the world are accelerating net zero day, this is the result of that decision.
I'm amazed that with such tiny numbers the government has now got two EV deals and two gigafactories. It bodes well for the country that we're able to get these done without the mega billions some industry people said would be necessary.
Where is the second gigafactory - Stellantis aren't currently building one here and the only announced one I'm aware of is Sunderland / Nissan.
Britishvolt, they're set to announce a move into the next stage of their plan.
That was what I feared you were going to to say - I know some people who believe that scheme is a complete scam and I'm starting to believe they may be right...
It's an unusual outfit, literally started by two men and no dog. One of the men - the one who had some experience of battery manufacture - had to resign due to previous fraud convictions. Most battery plants are either owned by a major battery manufacturer or have investment from a car manufacturer. Britishvolt has neither. I think their business plan is that batteries will be in such demand, if they build, people will come.
They do have a connection with the Faraday institute, so there's so technology knowhow in there. But they need to raise £2bn or so for a plant which is supposed to start construction this year, so it's already looking behind schedule. Last I saw, they were trying to do a SPAC deal in the US - Max might know more ?
The flag might encourage Boris to bung them a few million, I suppose.
To be fair to BritishVolt, they are getting people on board now, including Siemens I think, which is as bluechip as they get. You have to wish them well. A genuine startup in this business is very unusual.
Last night I watched the first episode of “1971:The Year That Music Changed Everything” on Apple+.
Bloody brilliant.
By the director of “Amy” and “Senna”.
These sorts of music documentaries can be quite cliched, but this is more ambitious and they’ve very cleverly interwoven the music and politics, with some great footage.
Based on a British book, and with a British director; sad in a way that it is for a US network and hence US-focused.
1971 was probably peak pop year (for albums; I’d put 1967 as peak for singles).
At the risk of sounding particularly old, the history of the second half of the twentieth century can be written with pop music, such was pop music's ubiquity in western culture. I love documentaries of this sort.
For me, the peak was 1977-1984.
Pop music hasn't gone away, but it has splintered. We can consume what we like now, and the cultural importance of the top 40 is much reduced. I don't want to go down a 'they don't write em like they used to' route - my view is that there is more good music around now than ever - but the cultural importance of any of it is much diminished, as we can all pick and choose the niches we want and remain utterly ignorant of the mainstream - if there is such a thing as mainstream any more.
I share your preference in period, but the splintering is good anyway, isn't it? Goodbye to all those tired exchanges - "You can't like X? Y is where it's at today!"/"No you're out of touch, it's moved on to Z!" With decades of different styles of music available at the touch of a button, we can all just play what we like and sample things we don't know.
I've always hoped the same would happen to national cultures (and the idea of cultural appropriation has never bothered me, unless it's an actual takeover). Why should Italians love singing, or the French like onions? Why shouldn't we all be individuals picking whatever cultures we like? I've a friend from Alabama who has married in Indian woman - he wears flowing robes, she dresses in jeans, neither of them are bothered by whatever anyone else thinks.
Last night I watched the first episode of “1971:The Year That Music Changed Everything” on Apple+.
Bloody brilliant.
By the director of “Amy” and “Senna”.
These sorts of music documentaries can be quite cliched, but this is more ambitious and they’ve very cleverly interwoven the music and politics, with some great footage.
Based on a British book, and with a British director; sad in a way that it is for a US network and hence US-focused.
1971 was probably peak pop year (for albums; I’d put 1967 as peak for singles).
I met Asif Kapadia at a party once, when he said he made documentaries I asked him if he'd made anything I might have heard of - the look on my face when he said 'Amy' must have been priceless. Really nice guy.
It’s struck me these last few days: how deeply fortunate we are to be European.
Fly for ~2 hours from london and you can be in Seville, Lisbon, Venice, the alps, the Cyclades, the Nordic fjords - or Berlin, Barcelona, Biarritz, the Basque Country. The Balearics.
The Hebrides, Brittany, the Black Forest; Naples and northumberland, Amsterdam and county Kerry, Paris and penzance.
What a wealth. And it is our backyard and our backstory, our patrimony and our inheritance. A place where no one starves and health care is humane. The most beautiful, cultured, civilised place on earth by an enormous distance. Covid-19, with its terrible restrictions on travel, really rams that home. If you have to be restricted to anywhere, you’d want it to be Europe
The Remain campaign really did a terrible job
I agree. The advertising campaign got it terribly wrong. It should have been an appeal to the heart. The cultural and romantic aspects of Europe were simply ignored and instead we were served an unintelligible diet of cost analyses. A game for any number of players played without rules.
Indeed.
I was thinking the same thing yesterday whilst out hiking. The EU should have love-bombed the UK. Offered sweeteners (bribes) and really gone big on the incentives.
As ever though they went for the stick approach instead of the carrot.
Lo and behold, this morning up pops an article on that very same theme about the EU's failure to sink the City of London.
A very typical Telegraph article. I have no idea about it's accuracy-it feels very slanted-but the whole tone is sneering mean spirited and reminds you what you loathe about the newspaper and it's writers.
The Telegraph is a comic for the very old, very stupid, and very Tory.
It’s the “Express” for people who have a boot room.
DT is not what it was! But on the main point, historically we will see the Brexit vote as choice between two futures - an integrated Europe with ever closer union and bit by bit acquiring the substance of a state, and an independent UK (or such parts as decide to stick with it.
The Brexit campaign was reasonably clear, for all its faults, what was at stake. The Remain campaign hid what was at stake when it could and should have sold a visionary manifesto to the heart and the head.
Both visions are absolutely sensible and soundly based. Only one was presented at all in the campaign. Not only did Remain fail, but the EU showed itself as it it were an embittered and flawed operation. all very sad.
On topic: 'gamble'? It's all a gamble. Keeping restrictions is a gamble with the economy, mental health, missed screening/detection of cancers, risking opening up in the autumn instead when there are other seasonal health pressures and when the children are cooped up in classrooms with 30 people. There's no perfect choice, but I think this is the least bad.
Spot on, the government deserve some praise for this, even if it is later than should it have been. Well done, and I hope they can hold off the doomsayers who will surely ratchet up the pressure this week.
@Kinabalu - looks like I am on track to lose our bet re the 19th, and very much hope I do so! Good call, but wonder if it would have been different with Hancock and Tory by election holds......
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Yeah because the industry is moving from petrol and diesel to electrical powertrains en masse. I guess if you want to hack a Brexit narrative in it then a lot of that is because of VW and their dodgy diesels which has forced the whole industry to dump diesel 10 years earlier than expected.
I hadn’t realised (or had forgotten), but the gilet jaune movement - analogous in some ways to Brexitism - was sparked by a hamfisted attempt by Macron to raise steep taxes on diesel.
Honestly mate, you need to move on from Brexit. I mean you're a kiwi right, I don't even know why you care so much?
As a quasi-outsider I can see perhaps more clearly how deranged it is. Besides, like any historical phenomenon it is open to endless interpretations.
You might as well ask why people don’t move on from the French Revolution.
It is daft. We lost a lot through it. In years to come people will realise how valuable freedom of movement was. However it is done and Blair is correct in saying we need to make it work if we aim to rejoin as we need to do so in a strong position.
Blair is correct. Although I don’t think we should rejoin. At least not to “this” EU.
In fact I think we need to make a “better” EU. That would have been much easier inside the institution, but it would also have required some independence of thought and coherence of policy-making by successive governments.
The sole benefit that Brexit provides is the pressure - PERHAPS - to avoid complacency in our economic and geopolitical settlement.
We have tried before to remake the EU in what the UK thought it should be, but I think it clear that that was not the vision of many of the other European leaders. So we left. We will miss many of the good things - ease of access to the markets, freedom of travel and so on. Other things less so, but we have made our bed and now must lie in it. Like with Covid its best to ignore the shrill on both sides of the debate (zero-covid vs let it rip), and try to build a new path. Something we often miss on PB is that many people just don't care. For them its done. They rarely think about politics. The audience on Question Time is not the population of the UK, its a very special subset.
No, I don’t think we did “try”.
The key moment was after the financial crisis, but neither Cameron nor Osborne were especially interested, and the Tory party at large had stopped thinking anything about the EU except as a bogeyman “other”,
On topic: the HMG has made the right call about July 19 (if indeed they have made a call, the actual comms are quite confusing).
In fact I believe they should have stuck to the old timeline.
It’s astonishing reading Twitter - various types suggesting we are now all going to die unless we maintain mask-wearing forever.
Not sure what Labour’s stance should be. But it sounds like they didn’t manage to figure out a coherent one.
Morally and practically Labours stance should be to support the government.
Politically the opposite, they get a free option from opposing, whilst if it works well the government would still get all the credit even if Labour supported them.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Yeah because the industry is moving from petrol and diesel to electrical powertrains en masse. I guess if you want to hack a Brexit narrative in it then a lot of that is because of VW and their dodgy diesels which has forced the whole industry to dump diesel 10 years earlier than expected.
I hadn’t realised (or had forgotten), but the gilet jaune movement - analogous in some ways to Brexitism - was sparked by a hamfisted attempt by Macron to raise steep taxes on diesel.
Honestly mate, you need to move on from Brexit. I mean you're a kiwi right, I don't even know why you care so much?
As a quasi-outsider I can see perhaps more clearly how deranged it is. Besides, like any historical phenomenon it is open to endless interpretations.
You might as well ask why people don’t move on from the French Revolution.
It is daft. We lost a lot through it. In years to come people will realise how valuable freedom of movement was. However it is done and Blair is correct in saying we need to make it work if we aim to rejoin as we need to do so in a strong position.
Blair is correct. Although I don’t think we should rejoin. At least not to “this” EU.
In fact I think we need to make a “better” EU. That would have been much easier inside the institution, but it would also have required some independence of thought and coherence of policy-making by successive governments.
The sole benefit that Brexit provides is the pressure - PERHAPS - to avoid complacency in our economic and geopolitical settlement.
We have tried before to remake the EU in what the UK thought it should be, but I think it clear that that was not the vision of many of the other European leaders. So we left. We will miss many of the good things - ease of access to the markets, freedom of travel and so on. Other things less so, but we have made our bed and now must lie in it. Like with Covid its best to ignore the shrill on both sides of the debate (zero-covid vs let it rip), and try to build a new path. Something we often miss on PB is that many people just don't care. For them its done. They rarely think about politics. The audience on Question Time is not the population of the UK, its a very special subset.
I agree with this. Problem is one half of the population doesn't accept the consequences of Brexit, which are almost all negative, while the other half resents the thing happening in the first place and doesn't want to have anything to do with it. Rather few people are out there trying the best of things such as they are.
I thought the only reason we delayed opening up completely was the worry over the variant formerly known as Indian being less resistant to the vaccines, so we bought a bit more time? Deaths haven’t gone up much, intensive cares are not overwhelmed, so why are people, including those who moaned when the re opening was delayed, calling it a gamble now?
Because the UK, almost uniquely in the developed world, seems to have Zerocovidians at the very highest level of public discourse.
It's a real shame. It's OK to have even 50,000 cases of Covid a day *if* they are not leading to particularly heightened levels of hospitalisations and deaths.
Indeed, it would probably be more useful for the government to target hospitalisations and deaths rather than cases per se, because the reality is that people *aren't* getting really sick right now, because the most vulnerable have been vaccinated.
Yes
Sir Keir is saying it’s reckless, it should be done gradually etc, but that is what’s happening! We were meant to be fully open a month earlier, but the government were cautious. I don’t see why he is calling for even more caution on the back of the vaccines working as intended. It really is a case of being paralysed by fear. I live with an unvaccinated vulnerable person, we have to be careful, but that doesn’t mean the whole of society has to join us
He’s thinking about it politically
If it goes well Boris was “reckless but lucky”
If it doesn’t then he capitalises on all the downside
It’s vile
Calling for an incremental approach, which was government policy until the conservatives lost a couple of by-elections, is hardly vile.
Ashcroft was setting up to blame Boris personally for all future deaths
Johnson takes the credit where it is due on the vaccine, he also gets the blame when things go wrong. Welcome to politics, leadership and responsibility, Charles.
Yes and no.
The vaccine program was fully within the government's command. It set up the relevant groups, chose a portfolio of vaccines, procured them, and greased the wheels of industry. There have been issues, but on the whole they've done a very good job. The vaccine messaging has also been generally good, with a few small wobbles IMO.
Similarly (and this gets much less coverage), the excellent genomics work at COG-UK. Literally a world-beater.
The spread of the virus is much less under the government's control: the virus does what it 'wants'. The government can tell the public what to do, but absent a police state, it depends on the public's behaviour in following those rules. They are not helpless against the virus, but they have to be reactive - whereas the vaccine rollout has been much more under their control.
Too many people also ignore the negatives of lockdown: not just fiscally, but also mentally and physically to the population.
Of course, all this is right. But the government has made a decision to end all legal restrictions at a time when the virus is spreading at a rapid rate. All or nothing were not the only two options. The PM, though, has decided that they were. He must take responsibility for that. There is no-one else to blame.
It’s not all or nothing.
The restrictions have been gradually eased over the last few months, and the next/last easing has been delayed by a month already. ‘All’ was last spring, when we were only allowed out for an hour a day, and that has been incrementally reduced to ‘almost nothing’ now, followed by ‘nothing’ in a fortnight
Saying ‘all or nothing’ is just trying to dramatise the situation
It’s struck me these last few days: how deeply fortunate we are to be European.
Fly for ~2 hours from london and you can be in Seville, Lisbon, Venice, the alps, the Cyclades, the Nordic fjords - or Berlin, Barcelona, Biarritz, the Basque Country. The Balearics.
The Hebrides, Brittany, the Black Forest; Naples and northumberland, Amsterdam and county Kerry, Paris and penzance.
What a wealth. And it is our backyard and our backstory, our patrimony and our inheritance. A place where no one starves and health care is humane. The most beautiful, cultured, civilised place on earth by an enormous distance. Covid-19, with its terrible restrictions on travel, really rams that home. If you have to be restricted to anywhere, you’d want it to be Europe
The Remain campaign really did a terrible job
I agree. The advertising campaign got it terribly wrong. It should have been an appeal to the heart. The cultural and romantic aspects of Europe were simply ignored and instead we were served an unintelligible diet of cost analyses. A game for any number of players played without rules.
Indeed.
I was thinking the same thing yesterday whilst out hiking. The EU should have love-bombed the UK. Offered sweeteners (bribes) and really gone big on the incentives.
As ever though they went for the stick approach instead of the carrot.
Lo and behold, this morning up pops an article on that very same theme about the EU's failure to sink the City of London.
A very typical Telegraph article. I have no idea about it's accuracy-it feels very slanted-but the whole tone is sneering mean spirited and reminds you what you loathe about the newspaper and it's writers.
The Telegraph is a comic for the very old, very stupid, and very Tory.
It’s the “Express” for people who have a boot room.
DT is not what it was! But on the main point, historically we will see the Brexit vote as choice between two futures - an integrated Europe with ever closer union and bit by bit acquiring the substance of a state, and an independent UK (or such parts as decide to stick with it.
The Brexit campaign was reasonably clear, for all its faults, what was at stake. The Remain campaign hid what was at stake when it could and should have sold a visionary manifesto to the heart and the head.
Both visions are absolutely sensible and soundly based. Only one was presented at all in the campaign. Not only did Remain fail, but the EU showed itself as it it were an embittered and flawed operation. all very sad.
The Brexit vision was based on several logical and factual misconceptions.
Chiefly, that we could leave and retain all the privileges of membership.
It is easy to knock the Remain campaign in hindsight - it lost! - but I don’t remember being particularly unsatisfied with it at the time. Although you are right that no positive vision was really advanced.
The same mistakes are being made regarding Scottish independence.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Yeah because the industry is moving from petrol and diesel to electrical powertrains en masse. I guess if you want to hack a Brexit narrative in it then a lot of that is because of VW and their dodgy diesels which has forced the whole industry to dump diesel 10 years earlier than expected.
I hadn’t realised (or had forgotten), but the gilet jaune movement - analogous in some ways to Brexitism - was sparked by a hamfisted attempt by Macron to raise steep taxes on diesel.
Honestly mate, you need to move on from Brexit. I mean you're a kiwi right, I don't even know why you care so much?
As a quasi-outsider I can see perhaps more clearly how deranged it is. Besides, like any historical phenomenon it is open to endless interpretations.
You might as well ask why people don’t move on from the French Revolution.
It is daft. We lost a lot through it. In years to come people will realise how valuable freedom of movement was. However it is done and Blair is correct in saying we need to make it work if we aim to rejoin as we need to do so in a strong position.
Blair is correct. Although I don’t think we should rejoin. At least not to “this” EU.
In fact I think we need to make a “better” EU. That would have been much easier inside the institution, but it would also have required some independence of thought and coherence of policy-making by successive governments.
The sole benefit that Brexit provides is the pressure - PERHAPS - to avoid complacency in our economic and geopolitical settlement.
We have tried before to remake the EU in what the UK thought it should be, but I think it clear that that was not the vision of many of the other European leaders. So we left. We will miss many of the good things - ease of access to the markets, freedom of travel and so on. Other things less so, but we have made our bed and now must lie in it. Like with Covid its best to ignore the shrill on both sides of the debate (zero-covid vs let it rip), and try to build a new path. Something we often miss on PB is that many people just don't care. For them its done. They rarely think about politics. The audience on Question Time is not the population of the UK, its a very special subset.
That's exactly right. Staying in a reformed EU was never on offer - what reforms were likely were always going to go AGAINST what we wanted - the EU was becoming MORE federalist, unaccountable, expensive and incompetent. That's why I've thought since the mid-90's that we were always likely to leave eventually (though I didn't think Leave would win in 2016).
On topic: 'gamble'? It's all a gamble. Keeping restrictions is a gamble with the economy, mental health, missed screening/detection of cancers, risking opening up in the autumn instead when there are other seasonal health pressures and when the children are cooped up in classrooms with 30 people. There's no perfect choice, but I think this is the least bad.
Spot on, the government deserve some praise for this, even if it is later than should it have been. Well done, and I hope they can hold off the doomsayers who will surely ratchet up the pressure this week.
@Kinabalu - looks like I am on track to lose our bet re the 19th, and very much hope I do so! Good call, but wonder if it would have been different with Hancock and Tory by election holds......
Would definitely have been different under Hancock.
Twitter is really grim this morning. Grim partly because the mood music around Covid is dark at the moment, but mainly because it is at its echo chamber worst. People are so utterly convinced what will happen. Complete non-scientists writing 10 tweet threads. A seeming 50:50 split between those who liken the 19th July announcement to genocide, and those for whom it's an opportunity to own the bedwetting libs. It takes the skill of an experienced archaeologist to unearth anything remotely nuanced, uncertain of its own position or possessing of a basic understanding of the other side.
I have to say that I'm extremely angry about the situation I'm going to be put in on the 19th of July.
The work from home advice will be lifted so I will have to go back to commuting into London
I won't be double jabbed until the end of August.
The mask mandate will end on public transport. I was on the train to London last week and about 70% of passengers weren't wearing masks. God knows what it will be like when it's not mandatory.
It really does feel like the government has accepted the inevitability of people in my age group catching COVID which after a year and a half of being very careful is hugely depressing.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they ditched car manufacture in the future.
What they have achieved is astonishing but the inexperience in the automotive sector sometimes shows. The powertrain is ludicrously over-engineered (some of the bearings look like they came out of a CAT D9) to meet Musk's million mile lifespan target but the rest of the sub Jeep quality car will have fallen apart long before it gets that far.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Yeah because the industry is moving from petrol and diesel to electrical powertrains en masse. I guess if you want to hack a Brexit narrative in it then a lot of that is because of VW and their dodgy diesels which has forced the whole industry to dump diesel 10 years earlier than expected.
I hadn’t realised (or had forgotten), but the gilet jaune movement - analogous in some ways to Brexitism - was sparked by a hamfisted attempt by Macron to raise steep taxes on diesel.
Honestly mate, you need to move on from Brexit. I mean you're a kiwi right, I don't even know why you care so much?
As a quasi-outsider I can see perhaps more clearly how deranged it is. Besides, like any historical phenomenon it is open to endless interpretations.
You might as well ask why people don’t move on from the French Revolution.
It is daft. We lost a lot through it. In years to come people will realise how valuable freedom of movement was. However it is done and Blair is correct in saying we need to make it work if we aim to rejoin as we need to do so in a strong position.
Blair is correct. Although I don’t think we should rejoin. At least not to “this” EU.
In fact I think we need to make a “better” EU. That would have been much easier inside the institution, but it would also have required some independence of thought and coherence of policy-making by successive governments.
The sole benefit that Brexit provides is the pressure - PERHAPS - to avoid complacency in our economic and geopolitical settlement.
We have tried before to remake the EU in what the UK thought it should be, but I think it clear that that was not the vision of many of the other European leaders. So we left. We will miss many of the good things - ease of access to the markets, freedom of travel and so on. Other things less so, but we have made our bed and now must lie in it. Like with Covid its best to ignore the shrill on both sides of the debate (zero-covid vs let it rip), and try to build a new path. Something we often miss on PB is that many people just don't care. For them its done. They rarely think about politics. The audience on Question Time is not the population of the UK, its a very special subset.
No, I don’t think we did “try”.
The key moment was after the financial crisis, but neither Cameron nor Osborne were especially interested, and the Tory party at large had stopped thinking anything about the EU except as a bogeyman “other”,
We've had labour govenment's too you know. The drift in the EU is ever closer union, whereas the UK wanted more of a trading bloc. Hence now we are drifting towards the Pacific...
I have to say that I'm extremely angry about the situation I'm going to be put in on the 19th of July.
The work from home advice will be lifted so I will have to go back to commuting into London
I won't be double jabbed until the end of August.
The mask mandate will end on public transport. I was on the train to London last week and about 70% of passengers weren't wearing masks. God knows what it will be like when it's not mandatory.
It really does feel like the government has accepted the inevitability of people in my age group catching COVID which after a year and a half of being very careful is hugely depressing.
Speak to your employer, at my work we've told anyone who hasn't been double jabbed to WFH until a fortnight after they've had their second jab.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Yeah because the industry is moving from petrol and diesel to electrical powertrains en masse. I guess if you want to hack a Brexit narrative in it then a lot of that is because of VW and their dodgy diesels which has forced the whole industry to dump diesel 10 years earlier than expected.
I hadn’t realised (or had forgotten), but the gilet jaune movement - analogous in some ways to Brexitism - was sparked by a hamfisted attempt by Macron to raise steep taxes on diesel.
Honestly mate, you need to move on from Brexit. I mean you're a kiwi right, I don't even know why you care so much?
As a quasi-outsider I can see perhaps more clearly how deranged it is. Besides, like any historical phenomenon it is open to endless interpretations.
You might as well ask why people don’t move on from the French Revolution.
It is daft. We lost a lot through it. In years to come people will realise how valuable freedom of movement was. However it is done and Blair is correct in saying we need to make it work if we aim to rejoin as we need to do so in a strong position.
Blair is correct. Although I don’t think we should rejoin. At least not to “this” EU.
In fact I think we need to make a “better” EU. That would have been much easier inside the institution, but it would also have required some independence of thought and coherence of policy-making by successive governments.
The sole benefit that Brexit provides is the pressure - PERHAPS - to avoid complacency in our economic and geopolitical settlement.
We have tried before to remake the EU in what the UK thought it should be, but I think it clear that that was not the vision of many of the other European leaders. So we left. We will miss many of the good things - ease of access to the markets, freedom of travel and so on. Other things less so, but we have made our bed and now must lie in it. Like with Covid its best to ignore the shrill on both sides of the debate (zero-covid vs let it rip), and try to build a new path. Something we often miss on PB is that many people just don't care. For them its done. They rarely think about politics. The audience on Question Time is not the population of the UK, its a very special subset.
No, I don’t think we did “try”.
The key moment was after the financial crisis, but neither Cameron nor Osborne were especially interested, and the Tory party at large had stopped thinking anything about the EU except as a bogeyman “other”,
We've had labour govenment's too you know. The drift in the EU is ever closer union, whereas the UK wanted more of a trading bloc. Hence now we are drifting towards the Pacific...
Excellent leaver's apostrophe. It really is the second most reliable statistical indicator of Leave/Remain proclivity after BMI.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Yeah because the industry is moving from petrol and diesel to electrical powertrains en masse. I guess if you want to hack a Brexit narrative in it then a lot of that is because of VW and their dodgy diesels which has forced the whole industry to dump diesel 10 years earlier than expected.
I hadn’t realised (or had forgotten), but the gilet jaune movement - analogous in some ways to Brexitism - was sparked by a hamfisted attempt by Macron to raise steep taxes on diesel.
Honestly mate, you need to move on from Brexit. I mean you're a kiwi right, I don't even know why you care so much?
As a quasi-outsider I can see perhaps more clearly how deranged it is. Besides, like any historical phenomenon it is open to endless interpretations.
You might as well ask why people don’t move on from the French Revolution.
It is daft. We lost a lot through it. In years to come people will realise how valuable freedom of movement was. However it is done and Blair is correct in saying we need to make it work if we aim to rejoin as we need to do so in a strong position.
In hindsight, we should have negotiated a kind of out-of-the-EU trial period: after, say, five years, we get the option of re-joining on original terms. All the flatulent rhetoric and hysteria would have pushed aside and we could have made a practical and sober assessment of whether it was worth a candle. I think we'd probably opt for no it wasn't.
I don’t find labour’s (Ashworth on r4) arguments particularly convincing.
I think the tories are taking the country with them.
It seems Labour want some of the remaining restrictions to continue but not most of them. Given that current restrictions aren't stopping Delta from spreading I have no idea what Labour think hanging onto a handful of restrictions will achieve. Maybe delay the wave a few weeks, but why? Will it make much difference to vaccination? No. Will it prevent a further wave? No. Will it save many lives? No.
Delta is spreading fast, so if you are concerned about that you ought to be arguing for stronger restrictions, probably much stronger, not to whittle them down to a few that will have negligible effect.
Yet on the other hand it did raise my eyebrows a bit when the press conference stated that they expect 50 000 cases per day by July 19th, before anything happens. This would imply that cases would go up further afterwards, in a proper 4th wave.
Personally, I would relax most restrictions, apart from keeping masks on public transport, and give businesses the choice as to whether to have masks etc rather than the customers.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Yeah because the industry is moving from petrol and diesel to electrical powertrains en masse. I guess if you want to hack a Brexit narrative in it then a lot of that is because of VW and their dodgy diesels which has forced the whole industry to dump diesel 10 years earlier than expected.
I hadn’t realised (or had forgotten), but the gilet jaune movement - analogous in some ways to Brexitism - was sparked by a hamfisted attempt by Macron to raise steep taxes on diesel.
Honestly mate, you need to move on from Brexit. I mean you're a kiwi right, I don't even know why you care so much?
As a quasi-outsider I can see perhaps more clearly how deranged it is. Besides, like any historical phenomenon it is open to endless interpretations.
You might as well ask why people don’t move on from the French Revolution.
It is daft. We lost a lot through it. In years to come people will realise how valuable freedom of movement was. However it is done and Blair is correct in saying we need to make it work if we aim to rejoin as we need to do so in a strong position.
Blair is correct. Although I don’t think we should rejoin. At least not to “this” EU.
In fact I think we need to make a “better” EU. That would have been much easier inside the institution, but it would also have required some independence of thought and coherence of policy-making by successive governments.
The sole benefit that Brexit provides is the pressure - PERHAPS - to avoid complacency in our economic and geopolitical settlement.
We have tried before to remake the EU in what the UK thought it should be, but I think it clear that that was not the vision of many of the other European leaders. So we left. We will miss many of the good things - ease of access to the markets, freedom of travel and so on. Other things less so, but we have made our bed and now must lie in it. Like with Covid its best to ignore the shrill on both sides of the debate (zero-covid vs let it rip), and try to build a new path. Something we often miss on PB is that many people just don't care. For them its done. They rarely think about politics. The audience on Question Time is not the population of the UK, its a very special subset.
No, I don’t think we did “try”.
The key moment was after the financial crisis, but neither Cameron nor Osborne were especially interested, and the Tory party at large had stopped thinking anything about the EU except as a bogeyman “other”,
We've had labour govenment's too you know. The drift in the EU is ever closer union, whereas the UK wanted more of a trading bloc. Hence now we are drifting towards the Pacific...
What a shame we didn't secure, oh I don't know, some kind of opt out of ever closer union.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Yeah because the industry is moving from petrol and diesel to electrical powertrains en masse. I guess if you want to hack a Brexit narrative in it then a lot of that is because of VW and their dodgy diesels which has forced the whole industry to dump diesel 10 years earlier than expected.
I hadn’t realised (or had forgotten), but the gilet jaune movement - analogous in some ways to Brexitism - was sparked by a hamfisted attempt by Macron to raise steep taxes on diesel.
Honestly mate, you need to move on from Brexit. I mean you're a kiwi right, I don't even know why you care so much?
As a quasi-outsider I can see perhaps more clearly how deranged it is. Besides, like any historical phenomenon it is open to endless interpretations.
You might as well ask why people don’t move on from the French Revolution.
It is daft. We lost a lot through it. In years to come people will realise how valuable freedom of movement was. However it is done and Blair is correct in saying we need to make it work if we aim to rejoin as we need to do so in a strong position.
Blair is correct. Although I don’t think we should rejoin. At least not to “this” EU.
In fact I think we need to make a “better” EU. That would have been much easier inside the institution, but it would also have required some independence of thought and coherence of policy-making by successive governments.
The sole benefit that Brexit provides is the pressure - PERHAPS - to avoid complacency in our economic and geopolitical settlement.
We have tried before to remake the EU in what the UK thought it should be, but I think it clear that that was not the vision of many of the other European leaders. So we left. We will miss many of the good things - ease of access to the markets, freedom of travel and so on. Other things less so, but we have made our bed and now must lie in it. Like with Covid its best to ignore the shrill on both sides of the debate (zero-covid vs let it rip), and try to build a new path. Something we often miss on PB is that many people just don't care. For them its done. They rarely think about politics. The audience on Question Time is not the population of the UK, its a very special subset.
No, I don’t think we did “try”.
The key moment was after the financial crisis, but neither Cameron nor Osborne were especially interested, and the Tory party at large had stopped thinking anything about the EU except as a bogeyman “other”,
We've had labour govenment's too you know. The drift in the EU is ever closer union, whereas the UK wanted more of a trading bloc. Hence now we are drifting towards the Pacific...
Oh, both parties are to blame. I mean, everyone is to blame.
As someone pointed out upthread, we had twenty-five years, at least, when the EU was portrayed as a hostile power.
Despite the fact we were actually in the EU - ie it was part of “us” and in terms of macro strategy (single market, eastern enlargement, prioritising anglo-french defence cooperation within NATO) we were winning the arguments.
We are not drifting toward the Pacific. That is a nonsense. Or if we are, everyone is, as the fulcrum of growth and power moves Eastwards.
Geographically we remain in Europe and will need to find a coherent European policy beyond “yah boo sux”. (So will the EU with respect to the U.K.).
I can assure you that Emma Raducanu's match was scheduled to be last on court 1 purely for the tv ratings. They do this with British players to catch the 6pm - 8pm (and now that they have the two roofs, later) slots. As you know, under local regs they can play under the lights until 11pm sharp.
Many of the ladies singles were scheduled first on courts e.g. Elena Rybakina (21) was played at 11 am. Three other ladies matches went through first thing on Centre and No.1.
The BBC's eyes lit up and they shunted all the BBC1 programmes off to BBC2 and brought Emma's match onto BBC1.
It was a god-awful decision to schedule a young inexperienced girl like that.
I've been listening to the debate on this. McEnroe made out with some reasonable-sounding comments. Gets excoriated by various personalities on The Opinion aka The Newspapers. This morning tennis experts seem to be saying the same as McEnroe.
Checking, Raducanu has been on the full LTA support system for a long time, has her own quite eminent support team (eg Nigel Spears for the last 3 years), and has been winning tournaments internationally since 2018.
Not really inexperienced.
In tennis almost half the draw is inexperienced in terms of playing in front of main court Grand Slam crowds. The tournaments Raducanu won would have had tiny crowds in comparison, perhaps hundreds for the final and tens for the early rounds, mostly coaches and other players. The only way to get experience is to do it and 18 is fine.
GB have a 12 year old realistic medal hope in the Olympics, and that does feel wrong, however good she is.
In skateboarding, which by my definition of sport, is not a sport (see also synchronised swimming, diving, gymnastics - basically anything which needs a judge to determine the outcome)
Interesting definition makes darts a sport but not the rings in men's gymnastics - it also makes crossfit a sport
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Literally every country is doing it. Japan has set up a ¥1tn fund just for EV semi-conductors, our supposed £500m is a joke in comparison. The US fund is said to be over $100bn. Governments across the world are accelerating net zero day, this is the result of that decision.
I'm amazed that with such tiny numbers the government has now got two EV deals and two gigafactories. It bodes well for the country that we're able to get these done without the mega billions some industry people said would be necessary.
Where is the second gigafactory - Stellantis aren't currently building one here and the only announced one I'm aware of is Sunderland / Nissan.
Britishvolt, they're set to announce a move into the next stage of their plan.
That was what I feared you were going to to say - I know some people who believe that scheme is a complete scam and I'm starting to believe they may be right...
It's an unusual outfit, literally started by two men and no dog. One of the men - the one who had some experience of battery manufacture - had to resign due to previous fraud convictions. Most battery plants are either owned by a major battery manufacturer or have investment from a car manufacturer. Britishvolt has neither. I think their business plan is that batteries will be in such demand, if they build, people will come.
They do have a connection with the Faraday institute, so there's so technology knowhow in there. But they need to raise £2bn or so for a plant which is supposed to start construction this year, so it's already looking behind schedule. Last I saw, they were trying to do a SPAC deal in the US - Max might know more ?
The flag might encourage Boris to bung them a few million, I suppose.
To be fair to BritishVolt, they are getting people on board now, including Siemens I think, which is as bluechip as they get. You have to wish them well. A genuine startup in this business is very unusual.
They are a customer for Siemens technology, I believe, which isn't quite the same as 'getting them on board'. I wish them well, but I wouldn't be staking much money on their delivering significant production by 2023. I hope I'm wrong.
(If all this had come a couple of years earlier, their chances might have been better.)
I have to say that I'm extremely angry about the situation I'm going to be put in on the 19th of July.
The work from home advice will be lifted so I will have to go back to commuting into London
I won't be double jabbed until the end of August.
The mask mandate will end on public transport. I was on the train to London last week and about 70% of passengers weren't wearing masks. God knows what it will be like when it's not mandatory.
It really does feel like the government has accepted the inevitability of people in my age group catching COVID which after a year and a half of being very careful is hugely depressing.
Go and get yourself an early second jab at one of the walk-in thingamydoogies, ASAP.
Never mind the (not very big) subsidy pumped into Sunderland and Ellsmere Port for EV production. The government needs to be applying its new big state spend money approach to charging networks.
There are various competing private sector companies all building chargers. Which means a myriad of competing back office networks most of which are incompatible with each other. Whats more, a hands off approach means that so many charging locations seem to be owned by nobody, which means they are long term broken.
Combine that with some of the batshit stupid costs that are being asked for (69p per kWh for cars which largely do between 3 and 4 miles off that) and EVs are never going to take off without intervention.
Impose a common payment system with a subsidised if required ppkWh cap. Impose strict rules on maintenance, including the adoption of the broken orphan chargers. Make EV driving and charging hassle free. Otherwise you can tip whatever you like into the supply side, the demand won't be there.
They won't. It involves fiddly detail and doesn't deliver sexy headlines.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Yeah because the industry is moving from petrol and diesel to electrical powertrains en masse. I guess if you want to hack a Brexit narrative in it then a lot of that is because of VW and their dodgy diesels which has forced the whole industry to dump diesel 10 years earlier than expected.
I hadn’t realised (or had forgotten), but the gilet jaune movement - analogous in some ways to Brexitism - was sparked by a hamfisted attempt by Macron to raise steep taxes on diesel.
Honestly mate, you need to move on from Brexit. I mean you're a kiwi right, I don't even know why you care so much?
As a quasi-outsider I can see perhaps more clearly how deranged it is. Besides, like any historical phenomenon it is open to endless interpretations.
You might as well ask why people don’t move on from the French Revolution.
It is daft. We lost a lot through it. In years to come people will realise how valuable freedom of movement was. However it is done and Blair is correct in saying we need to make it work if we aim to rejoin as we need to do so in a strong position.
In hindsight, we should have negotiated a kind of out-of-the-EU trial period: after, say, five years, we get the option of re-joining on original terms. All the flatulent rhetoric and hysteria would have pushed aside and we could have made a practical and sober assessment of whether it was worth a candle. I think we'd probably opt for no it wasn't.
There were arguments for this sort of thing at the time. May’s Withdrawal Agreement even had elements of this.
Destroyed by Brexiters who feared reversal by the enemy within.
The government is being forced to subsidise car manufacturers to keep them open post-Brexit.
We all know this.
Car manufacturing was always going to become less profitable post Brexit. Add them to the list along with fishers etc, who are also in receipt of various bungs.
Let’s save £350m a week and spend it on no-longer productive business instead!
Not quite - the Government is subsidising car manufacturers at a time of total structural change in that industry.
When everything is up in the air you need to offer subsidies to keep both the existing companies and encourage new ones.
I suspect Tesla is regretting building their factory in Germany.
Funny how there’s always non-Brexit reasons.
This is an industry where subsidies have always exists - no-one has built or modernised a car factory in decades without incentives to do so.
The govt has always subsidised car manufacturers. Yet, all of a sudden, it’s an issue to diehard remainers. Labour bailed out British Leyland in the seventies. Money was given to Nissan, Honda and Toyota to come here in the eighties. Money has been given to Ford, BMW, Vauxhall, Nissan, JLR and others As far back as I can remember to Help them build new models locally. Yet suddenly it’s an issue to some people as if it has never happened before.
Funny how it’s happening all at once, though, innit.
Yeah because the industry is moving from petrol and diesel to electrical powertrains en masse. I guess if you want to hack a Brexit narrative in it then a lot of that is because of VW and their dodgy diesels which has forced the whole industry to dump diesel 10 years earlier than expected.
I hadn’t realised (or had forgotten), but the gilet jaune movement - analogous in some ways to Brexitism - was sparked by a hamfisted attempt by Macron to raise steep taxes on diesel.
Honestly mate, you need to move on from Brexit. I mean you're a kiwi right, I don't even know why you care so much?
As a quasi-outsider I can see perhaps more clearly how deranged it is. Besides, like any historical phenomenon it is open to endless interpretations.
You might as well ask why people don’t move on from the French Revolution.
It is daft. We lost a lot through it. In years to come people will realise how valuable freedom of movement was. However it is done and Blair is correct in saying we need to make it work if we aim to rejoin as we need to do so in a strong position.
Blair is correct. Although I don’t think we should rejoin. At least not to “this” EU.
In fact I think we need to make a “better” EU. That would have been much easier inside the institution, but it would also have required some independence of thought and coherence of policy-making by successive governments.
The sole benefit that Brexit provides is the pressure - PERHAPS - to avoid complacency in our economic and geopolitical settlement.
We have tried before to remake the EU in what the UK thought it should be, but I think it clear that that was not the vision of many of the other European leaders. So we left. We will miss many of the good things - ease of access to the markets, freedom of travel and so on. Other things less so, but we have made our bed and now must lie in it. Like with Covid its best to ignore the shrill on both sides of the debate (zero-covid vs let it rip), and try to build a new path. Something we often miss on PB is that many people just don't care. For them its done. They rarely think about politics. The audience on Question Time is not the population of the UK, its a very special subset.
Many people don't care about many things until it affects them, or theirs. For example, 'freedom of movement' isn't affecting many people at the moment. Come next summer, when travel may well be closer to normal, if there are long queues to get through at Palma Airport, things may be different.
Farr Vintner's sale starts today - doesn't at first glance seem as exciting as previous sales but you would be able to pick up a box of Crystal Palace FC rosé at 25% discount if it so moves you.
Comments
The difference between us and the other major economies is that we're a few years behind in starting to build these things.
GB have a 12 year old realistic medal hope in the Olympics, and that does feel wrong, however good she is.
Johnson doesn't exactly tell people to go out and get infected, it will all be fine. But he also doesn't say, this virus is still out there and we need to be careful, because that cuts across his desire to declare freedom.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34700739
S Korea exported over $4bn of batteries in the first half of this year, and yet they still look at it as a nascent industry which needs government aid:
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/tech/2021/07/693_311643.html
One rule for them, one rule for the plebs.
What happened epsilon through to kappa?
Note I have some great gags ready for the kappa variant, including those who get infected by kappa to be known as kappa slappers.
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210705/Study-says-mRNA-COVID-vaccines-are-effective-against-Lambda-variant.aspx
For me, the peak was 1977-1984.
Pop music hasn't gone away, but it has splintered. We can consume what we like now, and the cultural importance of the top 40 is much reduced. I don't want to go down a 'they don't write em like they used to' route - my view is that there is more good music around now than ever - but the cultural importance of any of it is much diminished, as we can all pick and choose the niches we want and remain utterly ignorant of the mainstream - if there is such a thing as mainstream any more.
ETA and wasn't Boris Becker 17 when he first won Wimbledon?
Police officers involved in the stopping, searching and handcuffing of the British sprinter Bianca Williams and her partner are now under investigation for gross misconduct over alleged racism and dishonesty, the Guardian has learned.
Williams and Ricardo dos Santos were stopped on 4 July last year in north-west London by officers from the Metropolitan police’s Territorial Support Group.
They were searched on suspicion of having drugs and weapons, with none found, while their three-month-old son was in the back seat.
The investigation by the Independent Office for Police Conduct began into lower-level misconduct claims against five officers.
But in an intensification of the proceedings, the formal investigation has now become more serious after new evidence was unearthed by investigators.
Three Met officers have been notified by the IOPC they are under investigation for gross misconduct. If proven, the maximum penalty is dismissal.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/01/met-officers-face-gross-misconduct-inquiry-over-bianca-williams-search
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBC5o8ZGcSk
You might as well ask why people don’t move on from the French Revolution.
*Woosh*
Just for that, I'm writing one of Sunday's threads in Greek.
It’s the “Express” for people who have a boot room.
Later children must get less parental attention, but get sibling interaction that is lacking for the first.
I'm the younger of two and much smarter than my older brother, imho
(Seriously, we have very different minds, but very similar school and degree results albeit in different subjects)
https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-5-july-2021/
Although I don’t think we should rejoin.
At least not to “this” EU.
In fact I think we need to make a “better” EU.
That would have been much easier inside the institution, but it would also have required some independence of thought and coherence of policy-making by successive governments.
The sole benefit that Brexit provides is the pressure - PERHAPS - to avoid complacency in our economic and geopolitical settlement.
Last I saw, they were trying to do a SPAC deal in the US - Max might know more ?
The flag might encourage Boris to bung them a few million, I suppose.
Delta is spreading fast, so if you are concerned about that you ought to be arguing for stronger restrictions, probably much stronger, not to whittle them down to a few that will have negligible effect.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they ditched car manufacture in the future.
But there aren't many opportunities to play that sort of clip.
So woosh thyself!
Something we often miss on PB is that many people just don't care. For them its done. They rarely think about politics. The audience on Question Time is not the population of the UK, its a very special subset.
In fact I believe they should have stuck to the old timeline.
It’s astonishing reading Twitter - various types suggesting we are now all going to die unless we maintain mask-wearing forever.
Not sure what Labour’s stance should be. But it sounds like they didn’t manage to figure out a coherent one.
I've always hoped the same would happen to national cultures (and the idea of cultural appropriation has never bothered me, unless it's an actual takeover). Why should Italians love singing, or the French like onions? Why shouldn't we all be individuals picking whatever cultures we like? I've a friend from Alabama who has married in Indian woman - he wears flowing robes, she dresses in jeans, neither of them are bothered by whatever anyone else thinks.
But the empire-building and centralisation of power isn't going to stop.
The Brexit campaign was reasonably clear, for all its faults, what was at stake. The Remain campaign hid what was at stake when it could and should have sold a visionary manifesto to the heart and the head.
Both visions are absolutely sensible and soundly based. Only one was presented at all in the campaign. Not only did Remain fail, but the EU showed itself as it it were an embittered and flawed operation. all very sad.
@Kinabalu - looks like I am on track to lose our bet re the 19th, and very much hope I do so! Good call, but wonder if it would have been different with Hancock and Tory by election holds......
The key moment was after the financial crisis, but neither Cameron nor Osborne were especially interested, and the Tory party at large had stopped thinking anything about the EU except as a bogeyman “other”,
Politically the opposite, they get a free option from opposing, whilst if it works well the government would still get all the credit even if Labour supported them.
The restrictions have been gradually eased over the last few months, and the next/last easing has been delayed by a month already. ‘All’ was last spring, when we were only allowed out for an hour a day, and that has been incrementally reduced to ‘almost nothing’ now, followed by ‘nothing’ in a fortnight
Saying ‘all or nothing’ is just trying to dramatise the situation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS1cLOIxsQ8
However I will accept this from Dancing With The Stars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbSCWgZQf_g
Chiefly, that we could leave and retain all the privileges of membership.
It is easy to knock the Remain campaign in hindsight - it lost! - but I don’t remember being particularly unsatisfied with it at the time. Although you are right that no positive vision was really advanced.
The same mistakes are being made regarding Scottish independence.
The work from home advice will be lifted so I will have to go back to commuting into London
I won't be double jabbed until the end of August.
The mask mandate will end on public transport. I was on the train to London last week and about 70% of passengers weren't wearing masks. God knows what it will be like when it's not mandatory.
It really does feel like the government has accepted the inevitability of people in my age group catching COVID which after a year and a half of being very careful is hugely depressing.
For more on this and other news visit http://news.sky.com
The team were due to begin the series with an ODI in Cardiff on Thursday.
But tests administered on Monday returned seven positive results and the rest of England's party will be required to self isolate as a result.
The ECB said Ben Stokes will return to captain a squad which will be named in the next few hours.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/57732043
Personally, I would relax most restrictions, apart from keeping masks on public transport, and give businesses the choice as to whether to have masks etc rather than the customers.
I mean, everyone is to blame.
As someone pointed out upthread, we had twenty-five years, at least, when the EU was portrayed as a hostile power.
Despite the fact we were actually in the EU - ie it was part of “us” and in terms of macro strategy (single market, eastern enlargement, prioritising anglo-french defence cooperation within NATO) we were winning the arguments.
We are not drifting toward the Pacific.
That is a nonsense. Or if we are, everyone is, as the fulcrum of growth and power moves Eastwards.
Geographically we remain in Europe and will need to find a coherent European policy beyond “yah boo sux”. (So will the EU with respect to the U.K.).
I hope I'm wrong.
(If all this had come a couple of years earlier, their chances might have been better.)
That’s what I’d do in your situation.
There are various competing private sector companies all building chargers. Which means a myriad of competing back office networks most of which are incompatible with each other. Whats more, a hands off approach means that so many charging locations seem to be owned by nobody, which means they are long term broken.
Combine that with some of the batshit stupid costs that are being asked for (69p per kWh for cars which largely do between 3 and 4 miles off that) and EVs are never going to take off without intervention.
Impose a common payment system with a subsidised if required ppkWh cap. Impose strict rules on maintenance, including the adoption of the broken orphan chargers. Make EV driving and charging hassle free. Otherwise you can tip whatever you like into the supply side, the demand won't be there.
They won't. It involves fiddly detail and doesn't deliver sexy headlines.
For me, that was one of the core problems. I couldn't take any such promise seriously.
Mr. Stereodog, I sympathise. I won't be jabbed for a second time until August but I have no commute (work from home normally anyway).
Destroyed by Brexiters who feared reversal by the enemy within.
Farr Vintner's sale starts today - doesn't at first glance seem as exciting as previous sales but you would be able to pick up a box of Crystal Palace FC rosé at 25% discount if it so moves you.
https://www.farrvintners.com/sale/