Why lockdown scepticism doesn’t resonate much with the voters – politicalbetting.com
What Brits think matters more with regards to COVID-19: Trying to save every life: 55% Protecting economy: 22%https://t.co/L7VRviUiZV pic.twitter.com/py52WX26HR
Scratches head...."provisional schedule"....the semi-finals aren't just out of the blue. Or is there some weird deal where no England in the semi, they both show it? England get there and ITV has the rights?
So we'd rather be alive than rich - who'd have thunk it?
Perhaps this may be a clue that public policy aimed at improving the quality of life (however you define that) will always resonate more than "here's some cash - it's up to you what you do with it".
It follows (I think) it may be possible to sell tax rises on the back of said improvements. "Making Life Better for All" - could be someone's campaign slogan.
The morning after the night before - the most one-sided conflict in Rome since Genseric vs Petronius Maximus in 455. I'm much less confident about Denmark but I'm hoping my office sweep pick, Spain, will somehow luck out against Italy but I'm not hopeful.
Scratches head...."provisional schedule"....the semi-finals aren't just out of the blue. Or is there some weird deal where no England in the semi, they both show it? England get there and ITV has the rights?
They have one semi final each with ITV having first pick.
If England had been knocked out last night then ITV would have taken Tuesday's semi between Italy and Spain.
ITV should have all football removed from them for not offering UHD and the streaming platform not even being HD. I mean it is bad enough iPlayer on non-tv platforms isn't full HD i.e. 720p (let alone 4k), but only offering SD streaming in 2021 is worse than pineapple on pizza.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
BREAKING: #Wimbledon's centre and No 1 courts will feature maximum capacity crowds for the quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals - meaning they will be the first full outdoor stadiums at a sporting event in the UK since the coronavirus pandemic began.
BREAKING: #Wimbledon's centre and No 1 courts will feature maximum capacity crowds for the quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals - meaning they will be the first full outdoor stadiums at a sporting event in the UK since the coronavirus pandemic began.
Why can't we have capacity crowds at next weekend's horse race meetings at Newmarket, Ascot, York and Chester? For some reason, Wimbledon seems to be the only event that matters (and some football match in North-West London I believe).
BREAKING: #Wimbledon's centre and No 1 courts will feature maximum capacity crowds for the quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals - meaning they will be the first full outdoor stadiums at a sporting event in the UK since the coronavirus pandemic began.
Why can't we have capacity crowds at next weekend's horse race meetings at Newmarket, Ascot, York and Chester? For some reason, Wimbledon seems to be the only event that matters (and some football match in North-West London I believe).
I think is a prelude to Wembley having full capacity next Sunday.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
BREAKING: #Wimbledon's centre and No 1 courts will feature maximum capacity crowds for the quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals - meaning they will be the first full outdoor stadiums at a sporting event in the UK since the coronavirus pandemic began.
Why can't we have capacity crowds at next weekend's horse race meetings at Newmarket, Ascot, York and Chester? For some reason, Wimbledon seems to be the only event that matters (and some football match in North-West London I believe).
I think is a prelude to Wembley having full capacity next Sunday.
Even more people can say there were there when Italy beat England....
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the weighted average value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
Yet we need leaders who can do that, and if the public have no understanding of the balancing act of determing such things it will punish such thinking, to the greater detriment of society if the leaders start making decisions on that basis. It's a superficially nice thought, when a harder thought might actually be nicer.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the weighted average value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
Yet we need leaders who can do that, and if the public have no understanding of that it will punish such thinking, to the greater detriment of society.
So we'd rather be alive than rich - who'd have thunk it?
Perhaps this may be a clue that public policy aimed at improving the quality of life (however you define that) will always resonate more than "here's some cash - it's up to you what you do with it".
It follows (I think) it may be possible to sell tax rises on the back of said improvements. "Making Life Better for All" - could be someone's campaign slogan.
The morning after the night before - the most one-sided conflict in Rome since Genseric vs Petronius Maximus in 455. I'm much less confident about Denmark but I'm hoping my office sweep pick, Spain, will somehow luck out against Italy but I'm not hopeful.
The notion that lockdowns 'save lives' is completely false. They save some lives, and they cost others.
Same thing with the de Santis Florida approach. Maybe some more deaths of some types, fewer of others.
A brave politicians takes their choice and stands by it.
Alternatively, Boris Johnson and his government. The course of minimum responsibility, regardless of lives.
Schools in England are “bleeding out” with thousands of teachers having to isolate under a bubble system that is harming the most vulnerable children, ministers have been warned.
I remember when the same people were all moaning that teaching kids was all far too risky and schools must be shut at all times....at the time, the government said it harms in particular vulnerable and poor kids.
That polling question is more loaded than the fries at a New York bar.
As if 'saving every life' versus 'protecting the economy' were the choice on offer. Its an utterly false choice.
Ask any country that does not have a good economy.
But you've written reams of stuff framing lockdown as sacrificing the economy for the sake of fewer virus casualties - ie there WAS a choice and we made the wrong one.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
So we'd rather be alive than rich - who'd have thunk it?
Perhaps this may be a clue that public policy aimed at improving the quality of life (however you define that) will always resonate more than "here's some cash - it's up to you what you do with it".
It follows (I think) it may be possible to sell tax rises on the back of said improvements. "Making Life Better for All" - could be someone's campaign slogan.
The morning after the night before - the most one-sided conflict in Rome since Genseric vs Petronius Maximus in 455. I'm much less confident about Denmark but I'm hoping my office sweep pick, Spain, will somehow luck out against Italy but I'm not hopeful.
The notion that lockdowns 'save lives' is completely false. They save some lives, and they cost others.
That's not false, as they may do more of the former than the latter, the impacts may not be equal. The question is surely whether the costs of lockdown, in terms of lives impacted and economic effect, is a proportionate response to the human and economic costs if it is not done.
People disagree about that, with you at the extreme 'no' end, but it is perfectly consistent for people to think the answer was 'yes', but by this time is 'no'.
BREAKING: #Wimbledon's centre and No 1 courts will feature maximum capacity crowds for the quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals - meaning they will be the first full outdoor stadiums at a sporting event in the UK since the coronavirus pandemic began.
Why can't we have capacity crowds at next weekend's horse race meetings at Newmarket, Ascot, York and Chester? For some reason, Wimbledon seems to be the only event that matters (and some football match in North-West London I believe).
I think is a prelude to Wembley having full capacity next Sunday.
Even more people can say there were there when Italy beat England....
People are talking like Southgate is a genius, when the fact is he has the squad.
Look at the England bench and deeper into the squad, and tell me those guys would not be first name on the team sheet for 90% of the sides in this competition.
Foden has barely been used and might well not be again, but I bet the Danes would love a player like that, for example. Ukraine would. Almost anybody would. For England its Phil who?
At international level you can only play the cards you are dealt. Southgate has an amazing hand. He's competent sure, but genius? nope.
Time to commit the ultimate sin (nothing to do with pizza toppings) and comment on a previous thread.
Trump was the first one-term Republican to be voted out of office in a very long time. Ford lost in 1976 but he had never been "elected" (he wasn't on the 1972 GOP ticket). Indeed, he nearly lost the 1976 nomination to Reagan so it was perhaps inevitable by 1980 Reagan would be the obvious choice.
We'll never know whether Ford might have considered a 1984 run has Reagan lost in 1980 but for all his Presidency was short-lived and under the long shadow of Nixon and Watergate, I think history has been pretty kind to Gerald Ford.
Before Ford, you had Herbert Hoover who lost to FDR in 1932. That ended a 12-year period of Republican control of the White House. Hoover remained a strong critic of FDR and the "New Deal" and, like Ford, was mentioned as a possible challenger in 1936 but stood aside - Alf Landon eventually got the nomination but was crushed in the General Election.
Before Hoover, there was Taft who lost the 1912 election in extraordinary circumstances to Wilson and Teddy Roosevelt who split the Republicans and ran as a Progressive candidate.
A better parallel might be Benjamin Harrison, who, as with Trump, lost the popular vote twice - in 1888 he won enough ECV to become President but in 1892 he was decisively defeated by Grover Cleveland.
BREAKING: #Wimbledon's centre and No 1 courts will feature maximum capacity crowds for the quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals - meaning they will be the first full outdoor stadiums at a sporting event in the UK since the coronavirus pandemic began.
Why can't we have capacity crowds at next weekend's horse race meetings at Newmarket, Ascot, York and Chester? For some reason, Wimbledon seems to be the only event that matters (and some football match in North-West London I believe).
I think is a prelude to Wembley having full capacity next Sunday.
Even more people can say there were there when Italy beat England....
People are talking like Southgate is a genius, when the fact is he has the squad.
Look at the England bench and deeper into the squad, and tell me those guys would not be first name on the team sheet for 90% of the sides in this competition.
Foden has barely been used and might well not be again, but I bet the Danes would love a player like that, for example. Ukraine would. Almost anybody would. For England its Phil who?
At international level you can only play the cards you are dealt. Southgate has an amazing hand. He's competent sure, but genius? nope.
Yes and no....England have lesser players in defence at international level, but an array of attacking talent. Thus, it has further encouraged Southgate to follow a conservative path, which so far as worked out well.
Apparently his whole vision is driven by desire to minimize what he calls "chaotic" situations i.e. he doesn't think England should play the sort of high press high energy that most Premier League teams successfully deploy. He thinks that can lead to too many risky situations that could expose England, thus he opts for an approach which is much slower and condenses / marks space.
So good so far....
The big question is if England fall behind and then face say an Italy who will become very negative and happy to block out the game, does Southgate have a plan B that can successfully combine all the attacking talent to unlock a team whose only goal is to block out time.
England under Southgate so far have never really shown this ability.
That polling question is more loaded than the fries at a New York bar.
As if 'saving every life' versus 'protecting the economy' were the choice on offer. Its an utterly false choice.
Ask any country that does not have a good economy.
But you've written reams of stuff framing lockdown as sacrificing the economy for the sake of fewer virus casualties - ie there WAS a choice and we made the wrong one.
Vaccinations have undoubtedly saved the lives of many vulnerable people, but I think its at least debatable whether hard lockdowns 'saved' lives at all. I believed they cost the lives of people suffering with non-covid afflications, and they will continue to do so for years to come.
Time to commit the ultimate sin (nothing to do with pizza toppings) and comment on a previous thread.
Trump was the first one-term Republican to be voted out of office in a very long time. Ford lost in 1976 but he had never been "elected" (he wasn't on the 1972 GOP ticket). Indeed, he nearly lost the 1976 nomination to Reagan so it was perhaps inevitable by 1980 Reagan would be the obvious choice.
We'll never know whether Ford might have considered a 1984 run has Reagan lost in 1980 but for all his Presidency was short-lived and under the long shadow of Nixon and Watergate, I think history has been pretty kind to Gerald Ford.
Before Ford, you had Herbert Hoover who lost to FDR in 1932. That ended a 12-year period of Republican control of the White House. Hoover remained a strong critic of FDR and the "New Deal" and, like Ford, was mentioned as a possible challenger in 1936 but stood aside - Alf Landon eventually got the nomination but was crushed in the General Election.
Before Hoover, there was Taft who lost the 1912 election in extraordinary circumstances to Wilson and Teddy Roosevelt who split the Republicans and ran as a Progressive candidate.
A better parallel might be Benjamin Harrison, who, as with Trump, lost the popular vote twice - in 1888 he won enough ECV to become President but in 1892 he was decisively defeated by Grover Cleveland.
Ford also noteworthy for the management of the fall of Saigon, the ultimate American humiliation.
I wonder if the last days of Kabul will see similar scenes?
Schools in England are “bleeding out” with thousands of teachers having to isolate under a bubble system that is harming the most vulnerable children, ministers have been warned.
I remember when the same people were all moaning that teaching kids was all far too risky and schools must be shut at all times....at the time, the government said it harms in particular vulnerable and poor kids.
The rules are set by the government but in any case, the summer holidays start in a week or two so it is hard to get that excited.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
It's not a "choice" between those either.
It's a choice between public and political policy aimed at improving how we live in terms of the provision of health care and wellbeing (both physical and mental) as against a purely economically driven policy agenda which prioritises wellbeing via material consumption and the accumulation of material possessions (houses, cars, phones and things).
In essence, "how we live" is more important than "what we have".
Perhaps if the coronavirus experience has taught us anything, it's that the accumulation of material possessions does not bring happiness or fulfilment and it is those more intangible aspects to wellbeing (including socialisation) that are more important. Public policy to encourage the latter would seem to be the way forward so less work and more "play"?
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
Indeed. But to assess all those things against each other - which is in practice impossible but for the sake of argument - you need to express everything in a common currency. So £ (since we have no other).
A life worth £27k. Good health worth £13k. Sanity worth £16k. A social life worth £8k. Peace of mind worth £11k. Freedom of assembly £3k.
Schools in England are “bleeding out” with thousands of teachers having to isolate under a bubble system that is harming the most vulnerable children, ministers have been warned.
I remember when the same people were all moaning that teaching kids was all far too risky and schools must be shut at all times....at the time, the government said it harms in particular vulnerable and poor kids.
The rules are set by the government but in any case, the summer holidays start in a week or two so it is hard to get that excited.
Remember the teacher unions and head teachers were at one point saying they would disobey the government, because opening schools all too risky. Now they are complaining its all too harmful to have kids isolate, for exactly the reason the government said they really didn't want to go around closing schools.
That polling question is more loaded than the fries at a New York bar.
As if 'saving every life' versus 'protecting the economy' were the choice on offer. Its an utterly false choice.
Ask any country that does not have a good economy.
But you've written reams of stuff framing lockdown as sacrificing the economy for the sake of fewer virus casualties - ie there WAS a choice and we made the wrong one.
Vaccinations have undoubtedly saved the lives of many vulnerable people, but I think its at least debatable whether hard lockdowns 'saved' lives at all. I believed they cost the lives of people suffering with non-covid afflications, and they will continue to do so for years to come.
There's a respectable argument that the 'law vs guidance' equation here was too weighted to law - esp on household and private domain matters - but an approach of no law, all voluntary, 'just trust the people' would have been utter chaos and led to a worse outcome on almost all metrics. That's why no government in the developed democratic world went that way. Only despotic dictator types who could afford to be indifferent to their populations did that, or anything close.
So I found out last night that furlough can be part-time. A friend is working three days a week (and having to work very hard for those three days) before being furloughed for the other two days.
Ultimately people will say "yes, of course the government should prioritise lives above all else." This is a problem for the government, because they'll want to turn off the taps before it becomes obvious what a clusterfuck we're facing economically. Labour will gladly exploit this difficulty.
Also, worth noting that the Ragin' Cajun is the hero of one Dominic Cummings.
Schools in England are “bleeding out” with thousands of teachers having to isolate under a bubble system that is harming the most vulnerable children, ministers have been warned.
I remember when the same people were all moaning that teaching kids was all far too risky and schools must be shut at all times....at the time, the government said it harms in particular vulnerable and poor kids.
The rules are set by the government but in any case, the summer holidays start in a week or two so it is hard to get that excited.
Remember the teacher unions and head teachers were at one point saying they would disobey the government, because opening schools all too risky. Now they are complaining its all too harmful to have kids isolate, for exactly the reason the government said they really didn't want to go around closing schools.
I remember the government suing Greenwich to keep the schools open, and then closing them a day later.
We are where we are because HMG is running two policies in parallel that do not quite fit. First, the government decided not to vaccinate schoolchildren because they did not become ill when infected. That's fine but when combined with aggressive testing and self-isolation in bubbles, this is what was bound to happen.
But as I said, schools break up in a week or two and then there will be six weeks to think of some new rules.
Schools in England are “bleeding out” with thousands of teachers having to isolate under a bubble system that is harming the most vulnerable children, ministers have been warned.
I remember when the same people were all moaning that teaching kids was all far too risky and schools must be shut at all times....at the time, the government said it harms in particular vulnerable and poor kids.
The rules are set by the government but in any case, the summer holidays start in a week or two so it is hard to get that excited.
Remember the teacher unions and head teachers were at one point saying they would disobey the government, because opening schools all too risky. Now they are complaining its all too harmful to have kids isolate, for exactly the reason the government said they really didn't want to go around closing schools.
Because risk vectors change.
I was the one urging earlier and harder lockdowns in the autumn, because it was obvious without that we’d have a catastrophe. And we did.
But due to vaccines, that danger has been, if not eliminated, at least sufficiently diminished that we should be loosening restrictions. Especially given that the restrictions themselves are very onerous and one reason why schools were becoming totally unmanageable in the autumn. That hasn’t changed either, by the way.
When the facts change, sensible people change their minds.
But sadly there are no sensible people at the DfE.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
That polling question is more loaded than the fries at a New York bar.
As if 'saving every life' versus 'protecting the economy' were the choice on offer. Its an utterly false choice.
Ask any country that does not have a good economy.
Actually I did the survey and thought the question was loaded the other way - EVERY life rather than the whole economy? People do die whatever you do, and conversely the economy doesn't collapse because of lockdown, as we've seen. The real choice is "preventing extensive suffering" vs "preventing the risk of an economic downturn".
I agree with kinabalu that having common currency to discuss choices is healthy (it's the procedure adopted by NICE in judging whether new drugs should be available on the NHS). That would enable us to weigh up freedoms we think are important (right to change governments, £1 billion) ones that are nice to have (right to go to a crowded pub, £20) and ones that most of us don't care about (right not to have to carry a piece of paper to go to a crowded pub, £0.01). People who treat all freedom as indivisible and therefore of equal value tend not to be taken seriously.
BREAKING: #Wimbledon's centre and No 1 courts will feature maximum capacity crowds for the quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals - meaning they will be the first full outdoor stadiums at a sporting event in the UK since the coronavirus pandemic began.
Why can't we have capacity crowds at next weekend's horse race meetings at Newmarket, Ascot, York and Chester? For some reason, Wimbledon seems to be the only event that matters (and some football match in North-West London I believe).
I think is a prelude to Wembley having full capacity next Sunday.
Even more people can say there were there when Italy beat England....
People are talking like Southgate is a genius, when the fact is he has the squad.
Look at the England bench and deeper into the squad, and tell me those guys would not be first name on the team sheet for 90% of the sides in this competition.
Foden has barely been used and might well not be again, but I bet the Danes would love a player like that, for example. Ukraine would. Almost anybody would. For England its Phil who?
At international level you can only play the cards you are dealt. Southgate has an amazing hand. He's competent sure, but genius? nope.
One of the main reasons England have such huge amounts of young talent is because the development of the nation's youth talent system a decade ago, then the overhaul of the Under 21s, then the active promotion of younger talents into the senior team. All of which were masterminded by... Gareth Southgate.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
How much difference would looser official restrictions make, given how widely they are being flouted now?
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
How much difference would looser official restrictions make, given how widely they are being flouted now?
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
That may apply to many but far from all individuals, however it is absolutely no use to businesses who can't openly flout the rules and maintain licences and insurance, even ignoring potential fines. The law needs to change.
COVID-19 Actuaries Response Group @COVID19actuary · 14m Replying to @COVID19actuary The average age of COVID admission has decreased by around 20 years! It fell from 66 in mid-February to 46 in late June).
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
How much difference would looser official restrictions make, given how widely they are being flouted now?
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
Quite a bit I should think. There's widespread flouting, but a lot are still adhering to restrictions at least partially.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
How much difference would looser official restrictions make, given how widely they are being flouted now?
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
That may apply to many but far from all individuals, however it is absolutely no use to businesses who can't openly flout the rules and maintain licences and insurance, even ignoring potential fines. The law needs to change.
True, but it’s not there where the greatest spread happens.
It’s offices that may be the problem - but equally, they may not be going back yet. And schools, but in two/three weeks they break up.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
How much difference would looser official restrictions make, given how widely they are being flouted now?
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
Except they are not. If it is true that wearing masks protects other people, not the wearer, then people not wearing masks are putting others at risk, not themselves. What we need, or will need in any future lockdown, is far more clarity about what precautions are effective, and to ditch the theatre.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
How much difference would looser official restrictions make, given how widely they are being flouted now?
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
That may apply to many but far from all individuals, however it is absolutely no use to businesses who can't openly flout the rules and maintain licences and insurance, even ignoring potential fines. The law needs to change.
True, but it’s not there where the greatest spread happens.
It’s offices that may be the problem - but equally, they may not be going back yet. And schools, but in two/three weeks they break up.
Public transport as well with Mask restrictions likely to be lifted.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
Indeed. But to assess all those things against each other - which is in practice impossible but for the sake of argument - you need to express everything in a common currency. So £ (since we have no other).
A life worth £27k. Good health worth £13k. Sanity worth £16k. A social life worth £8k. Peace of mind worth £11k. Freedom of assembly £3k.
Etc.
Where would brexiters put sovereignty in that list and at what value?
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
How much difference would looser official restrictions make, given how widely they are being flouted now?
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
Except they are not. If it is true that wearing masks protects other people, not the wearer, then people not wearing masks are putting others at risk, not themselves. What we need, or will need in any future lockdown, is far more clarity about what precautions are effective, and to ditch the theatre.
Well, we now have ample evidence that they do *not* protect the wearer in case of prolonged indoor contact. So they seem unlikely to be of significant use on say, public transport.
But they may still be of value in shops.
The only thing to say against it is I see no evidence of infection rates falling after they started to be widely used - that said, proving a negative is very hard work.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
Indeed. But to assess all those things against each other - which is in practice impossible but for the sake of argument - you need to express everything in a common currency. So £ (since we have no other).
A life worth £27k. Good health worth £13k. Sanity worth £16k. A social life worth £8k. Peace of mind worth £11k. Freedom of assembly £3k.
Etc.
Where would brexiters put sovereignty in that list and at what value?
Didn't Osborne tell us the value during the campaign?
At least 14% of the sample realised that the question was not rationally answerable, while 9% went for the nearly as respectable Don't Know. Interesting that in this case the young were wiser than the old and the LDs were wiser than the rest.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
Indeed. But to assess all those things against each other - which is in practice impossible but for the sake of argument - you need to express everything in a common currency. So £ (since we have no other).
A life worth £27k. Good health worth £13k. Sanity worth £16k. A social life worth £8k. Peace of mind worth £11k. Freedom of assembly £3k.
Etc.
Where would brexiters put sovereignty in that list and at what value?
Didn't Osborne tell us the value during the campaign?
I think a question like this would be better with a sliding scale. You have 10 priority points, how many do you give to the economy, and how many do you give to preventing deaths due to Covid?
That said, I think it's a false choice. There was always going to be a horrendous amount of short-term economic damage, because many people would have avoided discretionary activities that put them at risk of infection. One advantage of a government imposing restrictions should have been that it would have instilled more confidence in the general public that things were safe when those restrictions were removed.
However, until this spring and summer - when the risk balance has finally reversed - the government failed to instil this confidence in many people, as its decisions were to prioritise the economy over public health, right up to the brim of NHS capacity (and I think a bit beyond this last winter).
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
How much difference would looser official restrictions make, given how widely they are being flouted now?
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
Quite a bit I should think. There's widespread flouting, but a lot are still adhering to restrictions at least partially.
Given the large effect that we've seen from the Scottish football events, it implies that there must still be a large degree of caution among the population as a whole, otherwise events like that wouldn't show up in the figures.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
Indeed. But to assess all those things against each other - which is in practice impossible but for the sake of argument - you need to express everything in a common currency. So £ (since we have no other).
A life worth £27k. Good health worth £13k. Sanity worth £16k. A social life worth £8k. Peace of mind worth £11k. Freedom of assembly £3k.
Etc.
Where would brexiters put sovereignty in that list and at what value?
Didn't Osborne tell us the value during the campaign?
Did he?, what did he say?
The cost of Brexit, was a few thousand pounds per taxpayer.
That polling question is more loaded than the fries at a New York bar.
As if 'saving every life' versus 'protecting the economy' were the choice on offer. Its an utterly false choice.
Ask any country that does not have a good economy.
But you've written reams of stuff framing lockdown as sacrificing the economy for the sake of fewer virus casualties - ie there WAS a choice and we made the wrong one.
Vaccinations have undoubtedly saved the lives of many vulnerable people, but I think its at least debatable whether hard lockdowns 'saved' lives at all. I believed they cost the lives of people suffering with non-covid afflications, and they will continue to do so for years to come.
I think though that the choice was not between no lockdown and normal service. The massive impact on the NHS was from a combination of factors, and would have happened whatever went on with pubs or mask mandates.
Quite scary figures here from the British Journal of Anaesthesia:
3/ This represents the cancellation or postponement of ~1.5 million surgical procedures due to the pandemic. We estimate that by the end of 2021 there will be a backlog of ~2.4 million surgical procedures in England and Wales. https://t.co/NmiTMSwPdvhttps://t.co/yjOa4EcCLP
This must rank as one of the weakest stories ever published. If I've not attended drinks parties with Attila the Hun I'd be surprised - at least that's the way some of them have seemed.
I really like drinks parties, but not so much the ones I actually get invited to.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
Indeed. But to assess all those things against each other - which is in practice impossible but for the sake of argument - you need to express everything in a common currency. So £ (since we have no other).
A life worth £27k. Good health worth £13k. Sanity worth £16k. A social life worth £8k. Peace of mind worth £11k. Freedom of assembly £3k.
Etc.
Where would brexiters put sovereignty in that list and at what value?
Didn't Osborne tell us the value during the campaign?
Did he?, what did he say?
The cost of Brexit, was a few thousand pounds per taxpayer.
I was interested in sovereignty value, not what brexit cost.
e.g It has cost my free movement and work in Europe, and subsequent rights for my decendents, a fishing industry, a farming industry, invisible earnings from the city, and our reputation abroad, all of which are priceless, whereas its value as far as I am concerned, is bugger all.
This kind of polling is always very shallow. What we need is questions asking how much extra tax they'd be willing to pay to keep lockdown measures permanently. I'm almost certain the answer will be a very low number. Right now everything is being paid for on the national credit card so there is no noticeable drop in incomes. That can't last forever and eventually taxes will have to go up if it becomes a permanent state of affairs.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
How much difference would looser official restrictions make, given how widely they are being flouted now?
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
Except they are not. If it is true that wearing masks protects other people, not the wearer, then people not wearing masks are putting others at risk, not themselves. What we need, or will need in any future lockdown, is far more clarity about what precautions are effective, and to ditch the theatre.
Well, we now have ample evidence that they do *not* protect the wearer in case of prolonged indoor contact. So they seem unlikely to be of significant use on say, public transport.
But they may still be of value in shops.
The only thing to say against it is I see no evidence of infection rates falling after they started to be widely used - that said, proving a negative is very hard work.
I am taking an FFP3 mask when I next go down to London to wear on the tube. They really do protect the wearer. Other places should be less risky.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
How much difference would looser official restrictions make, given how widely they are being flouted now?
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
Except they are not. If it is true that wearing masks protects other people, not the wearer, then people not wearing masks are putting others at risk, not themselves. What we need, or will need in any future lockdown, is far more clarity about what precautions are effective, and to ditch the theatre.
Well, we now have ample evidence that they do *not* protect the wearer in case of prolonged indoor contact. So they seem unlikely to be of significant use on say, public transport.
But they may still be of value in shops.
The only thing to say against it is I see no evidence of infection rates falling after they started to be widely used - that said, proving a negative is very hard work.
I am taking an FFP3 mask when I next go down to London to wear on the tube. They really do protect the wearer. Other places should be less risky.
Yes, but how many people are using those? If they had been standard and widely available throughout the pandemic things might be very different.
For myself, I’m keeping my cloth masks to wear when cycling in cold weather. The others - never again.
Mr. Pioneers, they made a dumb decision early on and then had to repeatedly dish out similar. It's a shame.
It was funny to think of Christian Horner screaming for Norris to get a penalty, then 20 minutes later arguing that a carbon copy of the incident was perfectly fine.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
How much difference would looser official restrictions make, given how widely they are being flouted now?
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
Except they are not. If it is true that wearing masks protects other people, not the wearer, then people not wearing masks are putting others at risk, not themselves. What we need, or will need in any future lockdown, is far more clarity about what precautions are effective, and to ditch the theatre.
Well, we now have ample evidence that they do *not* protect the wearer in case of prolonged indoor contact. So they seem unlikely to be of significant use on say, public transport.
But they may still be of value in shops.
The only thing to say against it is I see no evidence of infection rates falling after they started to be widely used - that said, proving a negative is very hard work.
I am taking an FFP3 mask when I next go down to London to wear on the tube. They really do protect the wearer. Other places should be less risky.
Does this necessarily help in the long run, though? Consider: we've reached the point as a society where we consider the costs of restrictions to outweigh the benefits - and are perfectly willing to allow case rates to explode. Moreover, given the very high transmissibility of the virus, the effective herd immunity rate for vaccinations and infections may be somewhere close to 100%. This suggests that, unless individuals are willing either to live in hermetically sealed bubbles for the remainder of their lives or are very, very lucky, they are going to be exposed to the disease eventually.
In short, taking extra precautions might delay when you catch Plague, but are unlikely to prevent it.
I seem to recall that, back when this all started, Sir Patrick Vallance suggested that pretty much everyone would catch Covid-19 eventually. Perhaps he was right?
In other news: just announced on radio that Wimbledon will be operating at 100% capacity for Centre and No.1 Courts from the quarter-finals onwards. First instance of full capacity being permitted at large sports stadia since the start of the pandemic.
Mr. Sandpit, Horner said it was just one of those things (Norris and Perez). I think one of us is misremembering, it sounded to me like he wasn't really calling for a penalty at all.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
How much difference would looser official restrictions make, given how widely they are being flouted now?
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
Except they are not. If it is true that wearing masks protects other people, not the wearer, then people not wearing masks are putting others at risk, not themselves. What we need, or will need in any future lockdown, is far more clarity about what precautions are effective, and to ditch the theatre.
Well, we now have ample evidence that they do *not* protect the wearer in case of prolonged indoor contact. So they seem unlikely to be of significant use on say, public transport.
But they may still be of value in shops.
The only thing to say against it is I see no evidence of infection rates falling after they started to be widely used - that said, proving a negative is very hard work.
I am taking an FFP3 mask when I next go down to London to wear on the tube. They really do protect the wearer. Other places should be less risky.
Yes, but how many people are using those? If they had been standard and widely available throughout the pandemic things might be very different.
For myself, I’m keeping my cloth masks to wear when cycling in cold weather. The others - never again.
I have never even heard of a FFP3 mask! I suspect I’m not alone in that…
BREAKING: #Wimbledon's centre and No 1 courts will feature maximum capacity crowds for the quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals - meaning they will be the first full outdoor stadiums at a sporting event in the UK since the coronavirus pandemic began.
Why can't we have capacity crowds at next weekend's horse race meetings at Newmarket, Ascot, York and Chester? For some reason, Wimbledon seems to be the only event that matters (and some football match in North-West London I believe).
Silverstone are getting a full crowd in a fortnight - 140,000 for the race on Sunday, which will be the biggest ticketed crowd in the UK since the same event in 2019.
Mr. Sandpit, Horner said it was just one of those things (Norris and Perez). I think one of us is misremembering, it sounded to me like he wasn't really calling for a penalty at all.
He was being his usual two-faced self, saying one thing to the TV crew and something very different to the race director.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
How much difference would looser official restrictions make, given how widely they are being flouted now?
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
Except they are not. If it is true that wearing masks protects other people, not the wearer, then people not wearing masks are putting others at risk, not themselves. What we need, or will need in any future lockdown, is far more clarity about what precautions are effective, and to ditch the theatre.
Well, we now have ample evidence that they do *not* protect the wearer in case of prolonged indoor contact. So they seem unlikely to be of significant use on say, public transport.
But they may still be of value in shops.
The only thing to say against it is I see no evidence of infection rates falling after they started to be widely used - that said, proving a negative is very hard work.
I am taking an FFP3 mask when I next go down to London to wear on the tube. They really do protect the wearer. Other places should be less risky.
Yes, but how many people are using those? If they had been standard and widely available throughout the pandemic things might be very different.
For myself, I’m keeping my cloth masks to wear when cycling in cold weather. The others - never again.
I have never even heard of a FFP3 mask! I suspect I’m not alone in that…
It’s what you’d wear if you work in a sawmill, or paint cars for a living. Not normally used medically, except when there’s a pandemic on!
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
How much difference would looser official restrictions make, given how widely they are being flouted now?
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
Except they are not. If it is true that wearing masks protects other people, not the wearer, then people not wearing masks are putting others at risk, not themselves. What we need, or will need in any future lockdown, is far more clarity about what precautions are effective, and to ditch the theatre.
Well, we now have ample evidence that they do *not* protect the wearer in case of prolonged indoor contact. So they seem unlikely to be of significant use on say, public transport.
But they may still be of value in shops.
The only thing to say against it is I see no evidence of infection rates falling after they started to be widely used - that said, proving a negative is very hard work.
I am taking an FFP3 mask when I next go down to London to wear on the tube. They really do protect the wearer. Other places should be less risky.
Yes, but how many people are using those? If they had been standard and widely available throughout the pandemic things might be very different.
For myself, I’m keeping my cloth masks to wear when cycling in cold weather. The others - never again.
I absolutely loathe the bloody things and am very keen to get rid of them. I do hope the government comes up with a sensible, effective recycling scheme because these things are horrific landfill fodder.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
How much difference would looser official restrictions make, given how widely they are being flouted now?
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
Except they are not. If it is true that wearing masks protects other people, not the wearer, then people not wearing masks are putting others at risk, not themselves. What we need, or will need in any future lockdown, is far more clarity about what precautions are effective, and to ditch the theatre.
Well, we now have ample evidence that they do *not* protect the wearer in case of prolonged indoor contact. So they seem unlikely to be of significant use on say, public transport.
But they may still be of value in shops.
The only thing to say against it is I see no evidence of infection rates falling after they started to be widely used - that said, proving a negative is very hard work.
I am taking an FFP3 mask when I next go down to London to wear on the tube. They really do protect the wearer. Other places should be less risky.
Yes, but how many people are using those? If they had been standard and widely available throughout the pandemic things might be very different.
For myself, I’m keeping my cloth masks to wear when cycling in cold weather. The others - never again.
I have never even heard of a FFP3 mask! I suspect I’m not alone in that…
It’s what you’d wear if you work in a sawmill, or paint cars for a living. Not normally used medically, except when there’s a pandemic on!
In which case I probably have them in my shed (I use masks for woodwork - I just didn’t know they were called that!)
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
How much difference would looser official restrictions make, given how widely they are being flouted now?
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
Except they are not. If it is true that wearing masks protects other people, not the wearer, then people not wearing masks are putting others at risk, not themselves. What we need, or will need in any future lockdown, is far more clarity about what precautions are effective, and to ditch the theatre.
Well, we now have ample evidence that they do *not* protect the wearer in case of prolonged indoor contact. So they seem unlikely to be of significant use on say, public transport.
But they may still be of value in shops.
The only thing to say against it is I see no evidence of infection rates falling after they started to be widely used - that said, proving a negative is very hard work.
I am taking an FFP3 mask when I next go down to London to wear on the tube. They really do protect the wearer. Other places should be less risky.
Yes, but how many people are using those? If they had been standard and widely available throughout the pandemic things might be very different.
For myself, I’m keeping my cloth masks to wear when cycling in cold weather. The others - never again.
I had no issue getting them. You can get them from anybody who provides H&S equipment for trades.
There was a period of maybe 2 months where there was a wait, but since last summer no real issue.
I got a respirator style one where you can easily change the filters, and the filters aren't very expensive. All widely used in things like paint spraying.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
How much difference would looser official restrictions make, given how widely they are being flouted now?
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
Except they are not. If it is true that wearing masks protects other people, not the wearer, then people not wearing masks are putting others at risk, not themselves. What we need, or will need in any future lockdown, is far more clarity about what precautions are effective, and to ditch the theatre.
Well, we now have ample evidence that they do *not* protect the wearer in case of prolonged indoor contact. So they seem unlikely to be of significant use on say, public transport.
But they may still be of value in shops.
The only thing to say against it is I see no evidence of infection rates falling after they started to be widely used - that said, proving a negative is very hard work.
I am taking an FFP3 mask when I next go down to London to wear on the tube. They really do protect the wearer. Other places should be less risky.
Yes, but how many people are using those? If they had been standard and widely available throughout the pandemic things might be very different.
For myself, I’m keeping my cloth masks to wear when cycling in cold weather. The others - never again.
I have never even heard of a FFP3 mask! I suspect I’m not alone in that…
It’s what you’d wear if you work in a sawmill, or paint cars for a living. Not normally used medically, except when there’s a pandemic on!
In which case I probably have them in my shed (I use masks for woodwork - I just didn’t know they were called that!)
Looks like this. One step up from the more common N95. Nose piece and adjustable straps, for a tight fit.
Good header - good reminder. I do find this polling surprising - I would not have guessed such strong support for restrictions but it has been remarkably consistent.
It's support for prioritising life over economic growth - nothing to do with "restrictions".
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
I agree. It's irrational that the public sign up to a sentiment like "one Covid death is one too many" but it's at the same time heartening. Who wants a public who can and do weigh up the value of a human life, objectively and dispassionately, and arrive at the correct answer of £27,000? - Not me.
It's not just a choice between deaths and money however. It's a choice between deaths, livelihoods, wellbeing, and human socialisation.
This is a false choice. Until we reach herd immunity (or at least sufficient protection to stop death rates exponentially accelerating), it's a choice between more deaths and a long period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization, and fewer deaths and the same period of harmed mental health, wellbeing and socialization.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
We're at that point already thanks to vaccination.
I don't think we are there quite yet, but we will see what happens to death rates after the 19th.
How much difference would looser official restrictions make, given how widely they are being flouted now?
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
Except they are not. If it is true that wearing masks protects other people, not the wearer, then people not wearing masks are putting others at risk, not themselves. What we need, or will need in any future lockdown, is far more clarity about what precautions are effective, and to ditch the theatre.
Well, we now have ample evidence that they do *not* protect the wearer in case of prolonged indoor contact. So they seem unlikely to be of significant use on say, public transport.
But they may still be of value in shops.
The only thing to say against it is I see no evidence of infection rates falling after they started to be widely used - that said, proving a negative is very hard work.
I am taking an FFP3 mask when I next go down to London to wear on the tube. They really do protect the wearer. Other places should be less risky.
Yes, but how many people are using those? If they had been standard and widely available throughout the pandemic things might be very different.
For myself, I’m keeping my cloth masks to wear when cycling in cold weather. The others - never again.
I have never even heard of a FFP3 mask! I suspect I’m not alone in that…
It’s what you’d wear if you work in a sawmill, or paint cars for a living. Not normally used medically, except when there’s a pandemic on!
In which case I probably have them in my shed (I use masks for woodwork - I just didn’t know they were called that!)
Looks like this. One step up from the more common N95. Nose piece and adjustable straps, for a tight fit.
The only time I wore an FFP3 mask was when I went for my first jab. The riskiest thing I'd done for a year.
AsI said yesterday. I've now switched from the N95 to a scarf.
Comments
Never mind sausages, or @Leon's crap beer... can anyone settle the most important issue of the day:
Is the England-Denmark game on BBC as well as ITV?
(Obviously if it's ITV only we lose ☹️)
Also no UHD.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/guide/bbcone/20210707
Here's Gary Lineker confirming it.
https://twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/1411453879544434688
At least with Prince Philip’s death it was a major national occasion.
So we'd rather be alive than rich - who'd have thunk it?
Perhaps this may be a clue that public policy aimed at improving the quality of life (however you define that) will always resonate more than "here's some cash - it's up to you what you do with it".
It follows (I think) it may be possible to sell tax rises on the back of said improvements. "Making Life Better for All" - could be someone's campaign slogan.
The morning after the night before - the most one-sided conflict in Rome since Genseric vs Petronius Maximus in 455. I'm much less confident about Denmark but I'm hoping my office sweep pick, Spain, will somehow luck out against Italy but I'm not hopeful.
If England had been knocked out last night then ITV would have taken Tuesday's semi between Italy and Spain.
I want the current restrictions to be eased but I like the idea people value life more than economic prosperity because it changes or re-frames the national debate and priorities.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1411672253935280129
Edited
As if 'saving every life' versus 'protecting the economy' were the choice on offer. Its an utterly false choice.
Ask any country that does not have a good economy.
Same thing with the de Santis Florida approach. Maybe some more deaths of some types, fewer of others.
A brave politicians takes their choice and stands by it.
Alternatively, Boris Johnson and his government. The course of minimum responsibility, regardless of lives.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jul/04/schools-bleeding-out-covid-isolation-rules-headteachers-england
I remember when the same people were all moaning that teaching kids was all far too risky and schools must be shut at all times....at the time, the government said it harms in particular vulnerable and poor kids.
Tenants of a John Lewis-owned home will have the option of renting the property fully furnished with the department store’s products
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/04/john-lewis-plans-to-build-10000-rental-homes-on-its-land-waitrose
People disagree about that, with you at the extreme 'no' end, but it is perfectly consistent for people to think the answer was 'yes', but by this time is 'no'.
Look at the England bench and deeper into the squad, and tell me those guys would not be first name on the team sheet for 90% of the sides in this competition.
Foden has barely been used and might well not be again, but I bet the Danes would love a player like that, for example. Ukraine would. Almost anybody would. For England its Phil who?
At international level you can only play the cards you are dealt. Southgate has an amazing hand. He's competent sure, but genius? nope.
Absurd.
Trump was the first one-term Republican to be voted out of office in a very long time. Ford lost in 1976 but he had never been "elected" (he wasn't on the 1972 GOP ticket). Indeed, he nearly lost the 1976 nomination to Reagan so it was perhaps inevitable by 1980 Reagan would be the obvious choice.
We'll never know whether Ford might have considered a 1984 run has Reagan lost in 1980 but for all his Presidency was short-lived and under the long shadow of Nixon and Watergate, I think history has been pretty kind to Gerald Ford.
Before Ford, you had Herbert Hoover who lost to FDR in 1932. That ended a 12-year period of Republican control of the White House. Hoover remained a strong critic of FDR and the "New Deal" and, like Ford, was mentioned as a possible challenger in 1936 but stood aside - Alf Landon eventually got the nomination but was crushed in the General Election.
Before Hoover, there was Taft who lost the 1912 election in extraordinary circumstances to Wilson and Teddy Roosevelt who split the Republicans and ran as a Progressive candidate.
A better parallel might be Benjamin Harrison, who, as with Trump, lost the popular vote twice - in 1888 he won enough ECV to become President but in 1892 he was decisively defeated by Grover Cleveland.
Apparently his whole vision is driven by desire to minimize what he calls "chaotic" situations i.e. he doesn't think England should play the sort of high press high energy that most Premier League teams successfully deploy. He thinks that can lead to too many risky situations that could expose England, thus he opts for an approach which is much slower and condenses / marks space.
So good so far....
The big question is if England fall behind and then face say an Italy who will become very negative and happy to block out the game, does Southgate have a plan B that can successfully combine all the attacking talent to unlock a team whose only goal is to block out time.
England under Southgate so far have never really shown this ability.
I wonder if the last days of Kabul will see similar scenes?
It's a choice between public and political policy aimed at improving how we live in terms of the provision of health care and wellbeing (both physical and mental) as against a purely economically driven policy agenda which prioritises wellbeing via material consumption and the accumulation of material possessions (houses, cars, phones and things).
In essence, "how we live" is more important than "what we have".
Perhaps if the coronavirus experience has taught us anything, it's that the accumulation of material possessions does not bring happiness or fulfilment and it is those more intangible aspects to wellbeing (including socialisation) that are more important. Public policy to encourage the latter would seem to be the way forward so less work and more "play"?
A life worth £27k.
Good health worth £13k.
Sanity worth £16k.
A social life worth £8k.
Peace of mind worth £11k.
Freedom of assembly £3k.
Etc.
Ultimately people will say "yes, of course the government should prioritise lives above all else." This is a problem for the government, because they'll want to turn off the taps before it becomes obvious what a clusterfuck we're facing economically. Labour will gladly exploit this difficulty.
Also, worth noting that the Ragin' Cajun is the hero of one Dominic Cummings.
We are where we are because HMG is running two policies in parallel that do not quite fit. First, the government decided not to vaccinate schoolchildren because they did not become ill when infected. That's fine but when combined with aggressive testing and self-isolation in bubbles, this is what was bound to happen.
But as I said, schools break up in a week or two and then there will be six weeks to think of some new rules.
I was the one urging earlier and harder lockdowns in the autumn, because it was obvious without that we’d have a catastrophe. And we did.
But due to vaccines, that danger has been, if not eliminated, at least sufficiently diminished that we should be loosening restrictions. Especially given that the restrictions themselves are very onerous and one reason why schools were becoming totally unmanageable in the autumn. That hasn’t changed either, by the way.
When the facts change, sensible people change their minds.
But sadly there are no sensible people at the DfE.
It's pretty clear the current generations would never have made it through the war.
Taxes on other people are like restrictions on other people ie popular.
I agree with kinabalu that having common currency to discuss choices is healthy (it's the procedure adopted by NICE in judging whether new drugs should be available on the NHS). That would enable us to weigh up freedoms we think are important (right to change governments, £1 billion) ones that are nice to have (right to go to a crowded pub, £20) and ones that most of us don't care about (right not to have to carry a piece of paper to go to a crowded pub, £0.01). People who treat all freedom as indivisible and therefore of equal value tend not to be taken seriously.
There seems a reasonable chance that those who want to protect themselves are doing so and everyone else is at the Arkell v Pressdram stage anyway.
@COVID19actuary
·
14m
Replying to
@COVID19actuary
The average age of COVID admission has decreased by around 20 years! It fell from 66 in mid-February to 46 in late June).
It’s offices that may be the problem - but equally, they may not be going back yet. And schools, but in two/three weeks they break up.
I'm still going to wear mine for some time yet.
But they may still be of value in shops.
The only thing to say against it is I see no evidence of infection rates falling after they started to be widely used - that said, proving a negative is very hard work.
That said, I think it's a false choice. There was always going to be a horrendous amount of short-term economic damage, because many people would have avoided discretionary activities that put them at risk of infection. One advantage of a government imposing restrictions should have been that it would have instilled more confidence in the general public that things were safe when those restrictions were removed.
However, until this spring and summer - when the risk balance has finally reversed - the government failed to instil this confidence in many people, as its decisions were to prioritise the economy over public health, right up to the brim of NHS capacity (and I think a bit beyond this last winter).
Quite scary figures here from the British Journal of Anaesthesia:
3/ This represents the cancellation or postponement of ~1.5 million surgical procedures due to the pandemic. We estimate that by the end of 2021 there will be a backlog of ~2.4 million surgical procedures in England and Wales. https://t.co/NmiTMSwPdv https://t.co/yjOa4EcCLP
https://twitter.com/_tomabbott/status/1405791198942482433?s=19
I really like drinks parties, but not so much the ones I actually get invited to.
e.g It has cost my free movement and work in Europe, and subsequent rights for my decendents, a fishing industry, a farming industry, invisible earnings from the city, and our reputation abroad, all of which are priceless, whereas its value as far as I am concerned, is bugger all.
F1: stewards a bit too trigger happy with penalties, I think.
For myself, I’m keeping my cloth masks to wear when cycling in cold weather. The others - never again.
https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2021/07/austria-post-race-analysis-2021.html
In short, taking extra precautions might delay when you catch Plague, but are unlikely to prevent it.
I seem to recall that, back when this all started, Sir Patrick Vallance suggested that pretty much everyone would catch Covid-19 eventually. Perhaps he was right?
In other news: just announced on radio that Wimbledon will be operating at 100% capacity for Centre and No.1 Courts from the quarter-finals onwards. First instance of full capacity being permitted at large sports stadia since the start of the pandemic.
e.g. https://www.zoro.co.uk/shop?query=ffp3&flag=1
There was a period of maybe 2 months where there was a wait, but since last summer no real issue.
I got a respirator style one where you can easily change the filters, and the filters aren't very expensive. All widely used in things like paint spraying.
30 years ago Andrew Neil used his paper to make up bullshit about HIV and AIDS. Apparently hasn't learnt a thing.
Anti-vax tweet from GB News featuring anti-scientific diatribe from Neil Oliver labelled as misleading by @Twitter
https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1411702849051021324
The biter bit, if so.
AsI said yesterday. I've now switched from the N95 to a scarf.