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We are Getting too excited over Galloway – politicalbetting.com

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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,169

    Andy_JS said:

    Australia's strict policy has failed to prevent the Delta variant from arriving and spreading.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9732481/Australias-Covid-success-crumbles-Cities-lockdown-borders-closed-hardly-vaccinations.html

    John Campbell was talking about transmission the other day before this kicked off. He was suggesting that previously nearly impossible to catch it outside and thought that normally you needed a certain amount of time in presence of the infected person to stand a chance of catching it.

    Now, he was hypothesizing that Indian variant more than likely results in infected individuals exhausting a lot more virus and that you need to be exposed to less of it to become infected. Thus outside carries some risk and you might well not need to be in the presence of individuals for very long at all.

    I read somewhere that in Australia so far with this outbreak (law of small numbers and all that) 100% of household transmission. Original variant, it was actually surprisingly low how much was transmitted even among those that lived with one another.
    If community transmission has started, Australia is in a very poor position. It's actually slightly more urbanised than the UK, has no prior natural immunity and is about 4 months behind us on vaccines.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    kle4 said:

    isam said:


    Sir Keir’s fan club are trying to defend the leaflet by saying the photo was doctored… here’s the original. How is it any better?


    No wonder they blacked out the text. The leaflet is about Islamophobia, and shows Boris Johnson meeting a notorious Islamophobe while pointing out the Tories' long history of Islaphobia, including Johnson's own comments. I think the leaflet is completely fine.
    Can't see what difference it makes. Either sectarian campaigns are ok or they are not.
    This is a landmark day - the day the sickeningly pious centrists admitted they were no different to Jezza, Farage, Boris, Nick Griffin and all the others they pretended to be outraged by.
  • ridaligoridaligo Posts: 174

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Health Secretary @sajidjavid says the next step out of lockdown will be "irreversible" and "there's no going back".

    Understand the desire for optimism and really hope he's right but this feels like a hostage to fortune.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1409455133788880898

    If I were Javid I wait until I'd had more than ten minutes briefing before giving such hostages to fortune.
    Quite. Some are cynical about the use of data, but if it is data to drive things you cannot be so categorical.
    This is a genuine chance to tell it like it is and reset expectations. Javid should say, yes we are having a 3rd wave but it is not causing the problems 1 and 2 did because of vaccination which has broken the link between infection and death. Yes the number of hospital admissions are increasing but from a miniscule base to merely tiny. The NHS is not at risk and that has always been the test. Yes, we are not going to eliminate Covid and we will still have deaths attributed to it. The risks do not, however, justify either lockdown or restrictions. So be careful out there, be sensible, but this is advice. The law is retreating from this space.
    Well said.

    And that should be said now, not wait until the 19th.
    Yep ... wonderful opportunity for a new voice to reset the narrative. The government would be mad not to take it but I suspect the "behavioural psychologist" nutters are too deeply embedded. They need to be exorcised.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,811

    Nunu3 said:

    isam said:

    Endillion said:

    isam said:


    Sir Keir’s fan club are trying to defend the leaflet by saying the photo was doctored… here’s the original. How is it any better?


    "Make sure you put white washing as two words, and have them split over a line break, just to muddy the waters even further."
    Are you a supporter of this @NickPalmer? You are working hard asking people to vote for Labour so implicitly backing the leaflet
    Modi really is vile tho.

    And no British PM should be shaking hands with him.
    As a matter of interest, should the UK PM shake hands with

    - The leader of Russia
    - The leader of China
    - The leader of Pakistan
    - The leader of Saudi Arabia

    ?
    Elbow or first bumps still de rigeur I believe?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited June 2021
    A wonderful and fitting moment on Centre Court @Wimbledon just now as Prof Sarah Gilbert, sitting in the Royal Box, gets a deserved standing ovation from the crowd as the announcer notes the presence of many of those who have done so much during the pandemic.

    https://twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1409492360581496836?s=20

    Video:

    https://twitter.com/Wimbledon/status/1409492721715253251?s=20
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895

    isam said:


    Sir Keir’s fan club are trying to defend the leaflet by saying the photo was doctored… here’s the original. How is it any better?


    No wonder they blacked out the text. The leaflet is about Islamophobia, and shows Boris Johnson meeting a notorious Islamophobe while pointing out the Tories' long history of Islaphobia, including Johnson's own comments. I think the leaflet is completely fine.
    It really isn't. And how can I put this - pictures speak a thousand words when the target reader may have poor (or little) English.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    My local Tesco store that's just been built is now advertising "free" charging for Volkswagen vehicles with its chargers. That seems like an interesting partnership, though I've no idea how long it would last as "free".

    https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/electric/partnerships/tesco

    As it says the chargers are VW-sponsored PodPoint units. Anyone with the app and a cable can use them for free.

    How long will they remain free? Depends on who is paying the bill - the site or the network? If the site then I can see how free charging is a pull vs no / paid charging at a different supermarket. If the network then not for long!

    Fun problem. So many of these 7kW units are let unmaintained and unloved after install. They get vandalised and broken and then its not owned by the site its located on and its not owned by the network logo on the post who just do the billing and it stays broken.
    The manufacturers really need to get together to sort out the EV infrastructure problem.

    SMMT and DfT need to bang heads together to get it working properly, the infrastructure issues are a major barrier to EV adoption. Only Tesla have done it right.
    We ran a Leaf 2014 - 2017, I'm on my second PHEV and we've now got an Ioniq EV. Once you've had an electric drivetrain you never want to go back to a gearbox.

    But - and its a big but - I am not going to rely on a charge network to get me anywhere, because there's no guarantee they will be delivering at the posted speed, available, or working at all. Add in the multiplicity of networks and batshit crazy "run a Roller for less" pricing and its game over.

    Seriously looked at a Tesla twice now. The lack of an interior and horror show build quality out me off a 3 even before noting how small the thing is. Then a Polestar 2 until the reviews noted the awful inefficiency. Now waiting to see how the Ioniq 5 pans out.
    We are going BMW i4 for Mrs DA's next car. She wouldn't entertain anything but a BEV now she's had one for a few years.
    That’s something of a step down from a Taycan.
    The Taycan is a great EV but not a great Porsche and she doesn't need anything so ludicrously fast. She also finds it too low. I'm going to buy the Taycan off the leasing company because it's a really good spec (White Turbo S with Mission E wheels and the 'vegan' interior with only 9,000 miles on it.)
    WHITE!??

    Is that a spec relating to the biturbo flux capacitor?

    Because surely it's not THE ACTUAL COLOUR OF THE CAR.

    Dear god talk about feet of clay.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,173

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:


    Sir Keir’s fan club are trying to defend the leaflet by saying the photo was doctored… here’s the original. How is it any better?


    No wonder they blacked out the text. The leaflet is about Islamophobia, and shows Boris Johnson meeting a notorious Islamophobe while pointing out the Tories' long history of Islaphobia, including Johnson's own comments. I think the leaflet is completely fine.
    I'd like someone to ask SKS what his policy is on India and Modi.

    I guess you would also be comfortable with the Tories doing the same with Jews and having a picture of SKS with Jezza?
    Well, there's many on here and elsewhere who say "how can you vote for SKS when he served in a notorious anti-semite's shadow cabinet"?
    Not the same, is it?

    The equivalent would be "how can Jews vote for SKS...?"
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895

    Scott_xP said:

    No 10 'completely refutes' the claim PM has behaved like a wonky shopping trolley. He was right not to sack Hancock on Friday and also right to accept his resignation the next day, etc https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1409492054900629509

    You really are silly and petty. It would be interesting to see the timeline of prior ministerial scandals and resignations down the years.

    The scandal getting the scalp the next day seems to be remarkably fast to me, not the other way around. Under Blair these things tended to last about a week to ten days with the case being closed before the embroiled Minister would be out.
    True! But I can't recall one where, having said "case closed" then the minister resigning and the PM responding sadly to the resignation letter, the PM then claims to have sacked the minister.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    "Cronyism is an awkward one for us to address in journalism. Hard to find someone who can write about it who isn’t a son, daughter, sister, brother, other half of someone etc important who fixed it for them to get their job in the first place."

    https://twitter.com/ThatTimWalker/status/1409408676230795265?s=20
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    Delaying a second dose of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine by almost a year results in better protection against Covid-19, a study suggests – while adding a third jab six months later boosts defences even further.

    University of Oxford researchers found that delaying a second jab up to 45 weeks after the first results in increased antibody levels – a key part of the body’s immune response – offering greater flexibility in vaccination schedules. A third dose six months after the second resulted in a further increase in antibody levels, they also found, mitigating scientists’ concerns that the design of the Oxford vaccine would limit repeated use.

    In the trial, 30 people aged between 18 and 55 years old received a late second dose of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine – an average 44 weeks after first dose – and their antibody levels were found to be higher than those who had their second jab between eight and 12 weeks after the first.

    https://inews.co.uk/news/health/covid-19-vaccines-delaying-second-dose-of-oxford-astrazeneca-jab-by-almost-a-year-gives-better-protection-1074750
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Christ fair play to Thomas, he's dislocated his shoulder and had it popped back in whilst cycling :o !

    They are hard as nails these road cyclists. I'd say them and boxers are the toughest sportsmen.

    I box, people might be surprised to learn.
    You will remember this moment then.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY1jzjTjIhY
    Amazing. Needless to say, I don't box against other people, I just take on a kind of heavy rocking dummy at my gym. But I'm unbeaten in 75 bouts.
    Well they do say you can only beat what's in front of you...

    And I have mentioned it on here before VR does a great boxing game - The Thrill of the Fight which is well worth giving a go (quite spenny headset - not for you, obvs) and really does work up a sweat.

    They even have a virtual dummy of the type you are working out with.
    Sounds great. But I need the crack of glove on torso/head, I think, and the sore knuckles and trembling hands at the end.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    Wonder how that will work?

    Here are the demands independent Scotland should make of foreign firms

    https://www.thenational.scot/business/19402904.demands-independent-scotland-make-foreign-firms/

    That article is one of the scariest things I have read in a long time. The capital flight from Scotland if this looks close to coming to pass would be irreparable. Our tax base could seriously collapse and the implied threat of stealing pensions to bank this madness will result in not only the money but many people leaving the country.
    Leaving aside all the rest, I can see this one positively driving existing businesses away:


    - A binding commitment on overseas companies under which they are obliged to offer first refusal to a management/worker takeover of a business in the event of the overseas owners deciding to close down production in Scotland. The commitment should also include a transfer or sharing of “intellectual property” (IP) such as product brands and patents.
    These people are a bunch of self appointed nutters but jeez. I remember one of the many excellent scenes in the Big Short
    https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/73c98341-6f2c-48ea-8c02-33b3c7538cb8
    The inevitable outcome if Scotland votes for independence will be slashed public spending in order to deal with the deficit. Tax rises would be suicidal as everyone significantly affected (high value individuals and business-owners) would simply hop over the border into the welcoming arms of rUK. This sort of madness, quoted above, would only accelerate the capital flight which would take place between the vote and actual independence.

    (And, borrowing, of course, would hardly be an option.)

    The Yes folk are really in a bind as IndyRef is impossible to win without persuading folk they will be better off. And its quite clear that the obvious would be the case, certainly for anyone dependent on the state to maintain their standard of living.

    Quite a conundrum.

    From my canvassing for BT, which was pretty extensive, I have no doubt at all that the biggest single issue resulting in the no vote was fear about what would happen to peoples' pensions. When you see the outriders of the Scottish government explaining that it will be the duty of pension fund managers to work constructively with the independent Scottish government to fund this brave new future I think that the independence referendum becomes unwinnable for yes. Its really not hard to sell the idea that these people want to steal your pension to fund their fantasy.

    But this doesn't mean that having a government obsessed with independence, difference and making political points instead of running the country can't do a lot of damage anyway. They did in 2014 and they will again.
    I think you need to bear in mind that the majority of pro-Indy voters believe that Scotland is a net financial contributor to UK.

    I saw correspondence in the local paper in which the Yes guy was arguing that the UK Govt would have a obligation to pay the state pension of people in Scotland after independence. Didn't seem to realise that there was no pension pot.

    Likewise some saying that Indy Scotland can just keep on using the pound (which, kind of, they can) because its our currency just as much as England's. No conception of the significance of a central bank.

    This is how SNP could win an independence referendum. Don't think they will. But they conceivably could if they are dishonest enough and the public credulous enough to believe them.
    The Whitehall Government was sending letters out to existing state pensioners in 2013-14 confirming that London would payt their state pension. (This is not, of course, relevant to new ones, or to private pensions.)

    Edit: the letters were sent to those who wrote in and asked. Not to all pensioners.
    C'mon Carnyx. You really think a rUK Govt is going to subsidise the pensions of people who are citizens of what would be a foreign country? And whose own Govt has just spent years execrating the Govt of said rUK.

    And for how long? And for how much?

    I didn't say that. The Whitehall government did, at least for a while. (Which surprised me at the time, it must be said.)
    I think it must have surprised everyone given that there is absolutely zero chance of it happening.

    If Scotland became independent something would have to give. If it isn't pensions it would have to be something that wouldn't lead to capital flight and a downward spiral.

    The poor and unemployed can't realistically move, so my guess is that benefit spending would be slashed. I don't suppose the baby-boxes and free tuition fees would last long either. But who knows?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    edited June 2021
    Arsenal Emirates Stadium are now offering 2nd vaccinations to people 21+ days after their first jab. Pfizer only I think. No appointment needed.

    Seems a slick operation and a lot of younger people turning up.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1409444400166547462?s=20

    Seems today is final day of the pop-up vaccination centre at Arsenal. Closes 8pm.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1409448252005621763?s=20

    Keep it going for FFS....as long as people are turning up, jab them.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Nunu3 said:

    isam said:

    Endillion said:

    isam said:


    Sir Keir’s fan club are trying to defend the leaflet by saying the photo was doctored… here’s the original. How is it any better?


    "Make sure you put white washing as two words, and have them split over a line break, just to muddy the waters even further."
    Are you a supporter of this @NickPalmer? You are working hard asking people to vote for Labour so implicitly backing the leaflet
    Modi really is vile tho.

    And no British PM should be shaking hands with him.
    So vile he's been given the highest civilian honour that can be awarded by Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Palestine, the UAE and Bahrain as well as being awarded the Seoul Peace Prize and other awards internationally?

    But sure, no PM should shake hands with him?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    isam said:


    Sir Keir’s fan club are trying to defend the leaflet by saying the photo was doctored… here’s the original. How is it any better?


    No wonder they blacked out the text. The leaflet is about Islamophobia, and shows Boris Johnson meeting a notorious Islamophobe while pointing out the Tories' long history of Islaphobia, including Johnson's own comments. I think the leaflet is completely fine.
    Can't see what difference it makes. Either sectarian campaigns are ok or they are not.
    This is a landmark day - the day the sickeningly pious centrists admitted they were no different to Jezza, Farage, Boris, Nick Griffin and all the others they pretended to be outraged by.
    Not really, just another irregular verb -

    I campaign robustly
    You are a bit unpleasant
    He is racist
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Two more snippets from former colleagues involved in B&S:

    - Local imam has advised people to ignore outsiders "coming to make trouble", and to decide for themselves
    - Local news broadcast interviewed a number of Muslims, who all said they were not one group and had a variety of different issues.

    I do think that there is a London journalist problem here. Someone who spends two hours in a place that he couldn't have found on a map before is going to be tempted to take a theme and interview a dozen or so people, then pick the two or three who illustrate the theme. Insofar as that encourages the myth that all Muslims (or Hindus, Jews, WWC, etc.) vote as a bloc, it's actively damaging to national cohesion. Generally, people who say about any group, "They're all the same" are lying to you, whether out of malice or because it's simply more convenient.

    Yeah yeah Nick, look at the leaflet
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Two more snippets from former colleagues involved in B&S:

    - Local imam has advised people to ignore outsiders "coming to make trouble", and to decide for themselves
    - Local news broadcast interviewed a number of Muslims, who all said they were not one group and had a variety of different issues.

    I do think that there is a London journalist problem here. Someone who spends two hours in a place that he couldn't have found on a map before is going to be tempted to take a theme and interview a dozen or so people, then pick the two or three who illustrate the theme. Insofar as that encourages the myth that all Muslims (or Hindus, Jews, WWC, etc.) vote as a bloc, it's actively damaging to national cohesion. Generally, people who say about any group, "They're all the same" are lying to you, whether out of malice or because it's simply more convenient.

    Wait, they all said they weren't one group and had different views?

    That sounds like a contradiction to me.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Scott_xP said:

    No 10 'completely refutes' the claim PM has behaved like a wonky shopping trolley. He was right not to sack Hancock on Friday and also right to accept his resignation the next day, etc https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1409492054900629509

    You really are silly and petty. It would be interesting to see the timeline of prior ministerial scandals and resignations down the years.

    The scandal getting the scalp the next day seems to be remarkably fast to me, not the other way around. Under Blair these things tended to last about a week to ten days with the case being closed before the embroiled Minister would be out.
    True! But I can't recall one where, having said "case closed" then the minister resigning and the PM responding sadly to the resignation letter, the PM then claims to have sacked the minister.
    Has he actually said he sacked him? That seems to be Scott's spin.

    The bit I heard from the PM was that the story broke on the Friday and by Saturday there was a new Health Secretary. That was it, no claims on who sacked whom.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,352
    I started coughing yesterday. Now have a test booked for this afternoon. My only contact with the outside world recently has been a few cycle rides, walking around the park, accepting deliveries of various sorts and telling the Scottish Power door-to-door salespeople to eff off. I'm five and a bit weeks post first dose of AZ.

    If I've still managed to catch the damn thing then there's little that can be done to stop anyone from catching it. Anyone wavering, do get vaccinated.

    Are there any stats on incidence of long Covid in people who've been vaccinated?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    edited June 2021

    I started coughing yesterday. Now have a test booked for this afternoon. My only contact with the outside world recently has been a few cycle rides, walking around the park, accepting deliveries of various sorts and telling the Scottish Power door-to-door salespeople to eff off. I'm five and a bit weeks post first dose of AZ.

    If I've still managed to catch the damn thing then there's little that can be done to stop anyone from catching it. Anyone wavering, do get vaccinated.

    Are there any stats on incidence of long Covid in people who've been vaccinated?

    Don't jump the gun yet.....coughing is actually not one of common early symptoms of Indian variant COVID. It is now much more headache, runny nose, sore throat i.e. like a bit of a cold. The hacking cough is much less common / comes later.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    I started coughing yesterday. Now have a test booked for this afternoon. My only contact with the outside world recently has been a few cycle rides, walking around the park, accepting deliveries of various sorts and telling the Scottish Power door-to-door salespeople to eff off. I'm five and a bit weeks post first dose of AZ.

    If I've still managed to catch the damn thing then there's little that can be done to stop anyone from catching it. Anyone wavering, do get vaccinated.

    Are there any stats on incidence of long Covid in people who've been vaccinated?

    I was going to be delivering some on line training this morning. Cancelled as one of the main recipients is now sick with Covid - early 30's at most.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    Endillion said:

    Two more snippets from former colleagues involved in B&S:

    - Local imam has advised people to ignore outsiders "coming to make trouble", and to decide for themselves
    - Local news broadcast interviewed a number of Muslims, who all said they were not one group and had a variety of different issues.

    I do think that there is a London journalist problem here. Someone who spends two hours in a place that he couldn't have found on a map before is going to be tempted to take a theme and interview a dozen or so people, then pick the two or three who illustrate the theme. Insofar as that encourages the myth that all Muslims (or Hindus, Jews, WWC, etc.) vote as a bloc, it's actively damaging to national cohesion. Generally, people who say about any group, "They're all the same" are lying to you, whether out of malice or because it's simply more convenient.

    Wait, they all said they weren't one group and had different views?

    That sounds like a contradiction to me.
    Splitters!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,173

    Arsenal Emirates Stadium are now offering 2nd vaccinations to people 21+ days after their first jab. Pfizer only I think. No appointment needed.

    Seems a slick operation and a lot of younger people turning up.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1409444400166547462?s=20

    Seems today is final day of the pop-up vaccination centre at Arsenal. Closes 8pm.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1409448252005621763?s=20

    Keep it going for FFS....as long as people are turning up, jab them.

    Why should Londoners get their second jab before me?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,785
    tlg86 said:

    Arsenal Emirates Stadium are now offering 2nd vaccinations to people 21+ days after their first jab. Pfizer only I think. No appointment needed.

    Seems a slick operation and a lot of younger people turning up.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1409444400166547462?s=20

    Seems today is final day of the pop-up vaccination centre at Arsenal. Closes 8pm.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1409448252005621763?s=20

    Keep it going for FFS....as long as people are turning up, jab them.

    Why should Londoners get their second jab before me?
    The walk in centres are all over the country, not specifically on London.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Australia's strict policy has failed to prevent the Delta variant from arriving and spreading.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9732481/Australias-Covid-success-crumbles-Cities-lockdown-borders-closed-hardly-vaccinations.html

    John Campbell was talking about transmission the other day before this kicked off. He was suggesting that previously nearly impossible to catch it outside and thought that normally you needed a certain amount of time in presence of the infected person to stand a chance of catching it.

    Now, he was hypothesizing that Indian variant more than likely results in infected individuals exhausting a lot more virus and that you need to be exposed to less of it to become infected. Thus outside carries some risk and you might well not need to be in the presence of individuals for very long at all.

    I read somewhere that in Australia so far with this outbreak (law of small numbers and all that) 100% of household transmission. Original variant, it was actually surprisingly low how much was transmitted even among those that lived with one another.
    If community transmission has started, Australia is in a very poor position. It's actually slightly more urbanised than the UK, has no prior natural immunity and is about 4 months behind us on vaccines.
    In no meaningful definition of the term is Australia more urbanised than the UK.

    Population density per square kilometre:
    Greater Manchester: 12,210
    Greater London: 5,701
    Greater Melbourne: 500
    Greater Sydney: 430
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Christ fair play to Thomas, he's dislocated his shoulder and had it popped back in whilst cycling :o !

    They are hard as nails these road cyclists. I'd say them and boxers are the toughest sportsmen.

    I box, people might be surprised to learn.
    You will remember this moment then.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY1jzjTjIhY
    Amazing. Needless to say, I don't box against other people, I just take on a kind of heavy rocking dummy at my gym. But I'm unbeaten in 75 bouts.
    Well they do say you can only beat what's in front of you...

    And I have mentioned it on here before VR does a great boxing game - The Thrill of the Fight which is well worth giving a go (quite spenny headset - not for you, obvs) and really does work up a sweat.

    They even have a virtual dummy of the type you are working out with.
    Sounds great. But I need the crack of glove on torso/head, I think, and the sore knuckles and trembling hands at the end.
    Fair enough. It doesn't do it for me unless there is that other person trying to clout me round the head at the same time and the VR is a - surprisingly - great proxy for that but yes - keep at it is the key thing.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Two more snippets from former colleagues involved in B&S:

    - Local imam has advised people to ignore outsiders "coming to make trouble", and to decide for themselves
    - Local news broadcast interviewed a number of Muslims, who all said they were not one group and had a variety of different issues.

    I do think that there is a London journalist problem here. Someone who spends two hours in a place that he couldn't have found on a map before is going to be tempted to take a theme and interview a dozen or so people, then pick the two or three who illustrate the theme. Insofar as that encourages the myth that all Muslims (or Hindus, Jews, WWC, etc.) vote as a bloc, it's actively damaging to national cohesion. Generally, people who say about any group, "They're all the same" are lying to you, whether out of malice or because it's simply more convenient.

    Quick question Nick - how did you interpret the 2019 Peterborough by-election result? It seems to me that had a lot of the elements of B&S: Brexity seat, expectations that Labour would lose, a decent Asian / Muslim community as a percentage of the electorate. The Brexit Party were odds-on favourite but Labour were deemed to have won because the Asian / Muslim voting bloc came out and got them over the line.

    Also worth noting, given the furore over Labour's leaflet, that the winning Labour candidate in that by-election was accused of pushing anti-Semitic messages to appeal to certain aspects of the community.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    Wonder how that will work?

    Here are the demands independent Scotland should make of foreign firms

    https://www.thenational.scot/business/19402904.demands-independent-scotland-make-foreign-firms/

    That article is one of the scariest things I have read in a long time. The capital flight from Scotland if this looks close to coming to pass would be irreparable. Our tax base could seriously collapse and the implied threat of stealing pensions to bank this madness will result in not only the money but many people leaving the country.
    Leaving aside all the rest, I can see this one positively driving existing businesses away:


    - A binding commitment on overseas companies under which they are obliged to offer first refusal to a management/worker takeover of a business in the event of the overseas owners deciding to close down production in Scotland. The commitment should also include a transfer or sharing of “intellectual property” (IP) such as product brands and patents.
    These people are a bunch of self appointed nutters but jeez. I remember one of the many excellent scenes in the Big Short
    https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/73c98341-6f2c-48ea-8c02-33b3c7538cb8
    The inevitable outcome if Scotland votes for independence will be slashed public spending in order to deal with the deficit. Tax rises would be suicidal as everyone significantly affected (high value individuals and business-owners) would simply hop over the border into the welcoming arms of rUK. This sort of madness, quoted above, would only accelerate the capital flight which would take place between the vote and actual independence.

    (And, borrowing, of course, would hardly be an option.)

    The Yes folk are really in a bind as IndyRef is impossible to win without persuading folk they will be better off. And its quite clear that the obvious would be the case, certainly for anyone dependent on the state to maintain their standard of living.

    Quite a conundrum.

    From my canvassing for BT, which was pretty extensive, I have no doubt at all that the biggest single issue resulting in the no vote was fear about what would happen to peoples' pensions. When you see the outriders of the Scottish government explaining that it will be the duty of pension fund managers to work constructively with the independent Scottish government to fund this brave new future I think that the independence referendum becomes unwinnable for yes. Its really not hard to sell the idea that these people want to steal your pension to fund their fantasy.

    But this doesn't mean that having a government obsessed with independence, difference and making political points instead of running the country can't do a lot of damage anyway. They did in 2014 and they will again.
    I think you need to bear in mind that the majority of pro-Indy voters believe that Scotland is a net financial contributor to UK.

    I saw correspondence in the local paper in which the Yes guy was arguing that the UK Govt would have a obligation to pay the state pension of people in Scotland after independence. Didn't seem to realise that there was no pension pot.

    Likewise some saying that Indy Scotland can just keep on using the pound (which, kind of, they can) because its our currency just as much as England's. No conception of the significance of a central bank.

    This is how SNP could win an independence referendum. Don't think they will. But they conceivably could if they are dishonest enough and the public credulous enough to believe them.
    The Whitehall Government was sending letters out to existing state pensioners in 2013-14 confirming that London would payt their state pension. (This is not, of course, relevant to new ones, or to private pensions.)

    Edit: the letters were sent to those who wrote in and asked. Not to all pensioners.
    C'mon Carnyx. You really think a rUK Govt is going to subsidise the pensions of people who are citizens of what would be a foreign country? And whose own Govt has just spent years execrating the Govt of said rUK.

    And for how long? And for how much?

    I didn't say that. The Whitehall government did, at least for a while. (Which surprised me at the time, it must be said.)
    No, it said "pensions would continue to be paid" it didn't say who would pay them - it later clarified that the Scottish government would have sole responsibility, something the SNP agreed with.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,352

    I started coughing yesterday. Now have a test booked for this afternoon. My only contact with the outside world recently has been a few cycle rides, walking around the park, accepting deliveries of various sorts and telling the Scottish Power door-to-door salespeople to eff off. I'm five and a bit weeks post first dose of AZ.

    If I've still managed to catch the damn thing then there's little that can be done to stop anyone from catching it. Anyone wavering, do get vaccinated.

    Are there any stats on incidence of long Covid in people who've been vaccinated?

    Don't jump the gun yet.....coughing is actually not one of common early symptoms of Indian variant COVID. It is now much more headache, runny nose, sore throat i.e. like a bit of a cold. The hacking cough is much less common / comes later.
    Yes. We'll see. Maybe it's just a worse than usual hayfever response? Or some other pathogen.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    Wonder how that will work?

    Here are the demands independent Scotland should make of foreign firms

    https://www.thenational.scot/business/19402904.demands-independent-scotland-make-foreign-firms/

    That article is one of the scariest things I have read in a long time. The capital flight from Scotland if this looks close to coming to pass would be irreparable. Our tax base could seriously collapse and the implied threat of stealing pensions to bank this madness will result in not only the money but many people leaving the country.
    Leaving aside all the rest, I can see this one positively driving existing businesses away:


    - A binding commitment on overseas companies under which they are obliged to offer first refusal to a management/worker takeover of a business in the event of the overseas owners deciding to close down production in Scotland. The commitment should also include a transfer or sharing of “intellectual property” (IP) such as product brands and patents.
    These people are a bunch of self appointed nutters but jeez. I remember one of the many excellent scenes in the Big Short
    https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/73c98341-6f2c-48ea-8c02-33b3c7538cb8
    The inevitable outcome if Scotland votes for independence will be slashed public spending in order to deal with the deficit. Tax rises would be suicidal as everyone significantly affected (high value individuals and business-owners) would simply hop over the border into the welcoming arms of rUK. This sort of madness, quoted above, would only accelerate the capital flight which would take place between the vote and actual independence.

    (And, borrowing, of course, would hardly be an option.)

    The Yes folk are really in a bind as IndyRef is impossible to win without persuading folk they will be better off. And its quite clear that the obvious would be the case, certainly for anyone dependent on the state to maintain their standard of living.

    Quite a conundrum.

    From my canvassing for BT, which was pretty extensive, I have no doubt at all that the biggest single issue resulting in the no vote was fear about what would happen to peoples' pensions. When you see the outriders of the Scottish government explaining that it will be the duty of pension fund managers to work constructively with the independent Scottish government to fund this brave new future I think that the independence referendum becomes unwinnable for yes. Its really not hard to sell the idea that these people want to steal your pension to fund their fantasy.

    But this doesn't mean that having a government obsessed with independence, difference and making political points instead of running the country can't do a lot of damage anyway. They did in 2014 and they will again.
    I think you need to bear in mind that the majority of pro-Indy voters believe that Scotland is a net financial contributor to UK.

    I saw correspondence in the local paper in which the Yes guy was arguing that the UK Govt would have a obligation to pay the state pension of people in Scotland after independence. Didn't seem to realise that there was no pension pot.

    Likewise some saying that Indy Scotland can just keep on using the pound (which, kind of, they can) because its our currency just as much as England's. No conception of the significance of a central bank.

    This is how SNP could win an independence referendum. Don't think they will. But they conceivably could if they are dishonest enough and the public credulous enough to believe them.
    The Whitehall Government was sending letters out to existing state pensioners in 2013-14 confirming that London would payt their state pension. (This is not, of course, relevant to new ones, or to private pensions.)

    Edit: the letters were sent to those who wrote in and asked. Not to all pensioners.
    C'mon Carnyx. You really think a rUK Govt is going to subsidise the pensions of people who are citizens of what would be a foreign country? And whose own Govt has just spent years execrating the Govt of said rUK.

    And for how long? And for how much?

    I didn't say that. The Whitehall government did, at least for a while. (Which surprised me at the time, it must be said.)
    As far as I can tell, all they said was that pensions would continue to be paid. Clearly all they should have said that it would be the responsibility of the new Scottish Government to pay them, but on the assumption that would happen, what they said was correct albeit clearly misleading. In any case, there's obviously no way that the case for independence could rest on being able to hold the Government to that letter seven years ago for the next several decades.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098

    Scott_xP said:

    No 10 'completely refutes' the claim PM has behaved like a wonky shopping trolley. He was right not to sack Hancock on Friday and also right to accept his resignation the next day, etc https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1409492054900629509

    You really are silly and petty. It would be interesting to see the timeline of prior ministerial scandals and resignations down the years.

    The scandal getting the scalp the next day seems to be remarkably fast to me, not the other way around. Under Blair these things tended to last about a week to ten days with the case being closed before the embroiled Minister would be out.
    True! But I can't recall one where, having said "case closed" then the minister resigning and the PM responding sadly to the resignation letter, the PM then claims to have sacked the minister.
    The problem for Johnson is that he clearly wanted Hancock to stay. So he gets no credit for the resignation. Quite the opposite.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Australia's strict policy has failed to prevent the Delta variant from arriving and spreading.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9732481/Australias-Covid-success-crumbles-Cities-lockdown-borders-closed-hardly-vaccinations.html

    John Campbell was talking about transmission the other day before this kicked off. He was suggesting that previously nearly impossible to catch it outside and thought that normally you needed a certain amount of time in presence of the infected person to stand a chance of catching it.

    Now, he was hypothesizing that Indian variant more than likely results in infected individuals exhausting a lot more virus and that you need to be exposed to less of it to become infected. Thus outside carries some risk and you might well not need to be in the presence of individuals for very long at all.

    I read somewhere that in Australia so far with this outbreak (law of small numbers and all that) 100% of household transmission. Original variant, it was actually surprisingly low how much was transmitted even among those that lived with one another.
    If community transmission has started, Australia is in a very poor position. It's actually slightly more urbanised than the UK, has no prior natural immunity and is about 4 months behind us on vaccines.
    In no meaningful definition of the term is Australia more urbanised than the UK.

    Population density per square kilometre:
    Greater Manchester: 12,210
    Greater London: 5,701
    Greater Melbourne: 500
    Greater Sydney: 430
    As a percentage of the population that lives in big cities, it absolutely is - I think 80% lives in 5 main cities.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,173
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    Arsenal Emirates Stadium are now offering 2nd vaccinations to people 21+ days after their first jab. Pfizer only I think. No appointment needed.

    Seems a slick operation and a lot of younger people turning up.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1409444400166547462?s=20

    Seems today is final day of the pop-up vaccination centre at Arsenal. Closes 8pm.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1409448252005621763?s=20

    Keep it going for FFS....as long as people are turning up, jab them.

    Why should Londoners get their second jab before me?
    The walk in centres are all over the country, not specifically on London.
    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/find-a-walk-in-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-site/

    If you've already had your 1st dose, you need to wait 8 weeks before having your 2nd dose.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772

    Endillion said:

    Two more snippets from former colleagues involved in B&S:

    - Local imam has advised people to ignore outsiders "coming to make trouble", and to decide for themselves
    - Local news broadcast interviewed a number of Muslims, who all said they were not one group and had a variety of different issues.

    I do think that there is a London journalist problem here. Someone who spends two hours in a place that he couldn't have found on a map before is going to be tempted to take a theme and interview a dozen or so people, then pick the two or three who illustrate the theme. Insofar as that encourages the myth that all Muslims (or Hindus, Jews, WWC, etc.) vote as a bloc, it's actively damaging to national cohesion. Generally, people who say about any group, "They're all the same" are lying to you, whether out of malice or because it's simply more convenient.

    Wait, they all said they weren't one group and had different views?

    That sounds like a contradiction to me.
    Splitters!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4
    "YES, WE'RE ALL DIFFERENT!"
    "i'm not"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QereR0CViMY
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212

    I started coughing yesterday. Now have a test booked for this afternoon. My only contact with the outside world recently has been a few cycle rides, walking around the park, accepting deliveries of various sorts and telling the Scottish Power door-to-door salespeople to eff off. I'm five and a bit weeks post first dose of AZ.

    If I've still managed to catch the damn thing then there's little that can be done to stop anyone from catching it. Anyone wavering, do get vaccinated.

    Are there any stats on incidence of long Covid in people who've been vaccinated?

    Don't jump the gun yet.....coughing is actually not one of common early symptoms of Indian variant COVID. It is now much more headache, runny nose, sore throat i.e. like a bit of a cold. The hacking cough is much less common / comes later.
    Yes. We'll see. Maybe it's just a worse than usual hayfever response? Or some other pathogen.
    Remember that PCR test positivity shows that if you have the right symptoms, you still *probably* don't have the bug...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    For those looking for a 2nd jab...

    https://www.reddit.com/r/GetJabbed/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    edited June 2021
    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    Arsenal Emirates Stadium are now offering 2nd vaccinations to people 21+ days after their first jab. Pfizer only I think. No appointment needed.

    Seems a slick operation and a lot of younger people turning up.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1409444400166547462?s=20

    Seems today is final day of the pop-up vaccination centre at Arsenal. Closes 8pm.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1409448252005621763?s=20

    Keep it going for FFS....as long as people are turning up, jab them.

    Why should Londoners get their second jab before me?
    The walk in centres are all over the country, not specifically on London.
    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/find-a-walk-in-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-site/

    If you've already had your 1st dose, you need to wait 8 weeks before having your 2nd dose.
    It seems that the standardized procedure has broken down a bit. There seems to be places doing early 2nd doses, some others saying absolutely no, go away.

    I don't know if that is "targeting" or that some local NHS bod has decided to take matters into their own hands, remember there is a fudge in the rules that basically says if they deem you vulnerable that things can be sped up.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,344
    Andy_JS said:

    Australia's strict policy has failed to prevent the Delta variant from arriving and spreading.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9732481/Australias-Covid-success-crumbles-Cities-lockdown-borders-closed-hardly-vaccinations.html

    Australia has a dreadful plague of mice, as well, right now, of Biblical proportions.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    Two more snippets from former colleagues involved in B&S:

    - Local imam has advised people to ignore outsiders "coming to make trouble", and to decide for themselves
    - Local news broadcast interviewed a number of Muslims, who all said they were not one group and had a variety of different issues.

    I do think that there is a London journalist problem here. Someone who spends two hours in a place that he couldn't have found on a map before is going to be tempted to take a theme and interview a dozen or so people, then pick the two or three who illustrate the theme. Insofar as that encourages the myth that all Muslims (or Hindus, Jews, WWC, etc.) vote as a bloc, it's actively damaging to national cohesion. Generally, people who say about any group, "They're all the same" are lying to you, whether out of malice or because it's simply more convenient.

    Wait, they all said they weren't one group and had different views?

    That sounds like a contradiction to me.
    Splitters!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4
    I was thinking more along the lines "Yes, we are all individuals! Yes, we are all different!"
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895

    Scott_xP said:

    No 10 'completely refutes' the claim PM has behaved like a wonky shopping trolley. He was right not to sack Hancock on Friday and also right to accept his resignation the next day, etc https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1409492054900629509

    You really are silly and petty. It would be interesting to see the timeline of prior ministerial scandals and resignations down the years.

    The scandal getting the scalp the next day seems to be remarkably fast to me, not the other way around. Under Blair these things tended to last about a week to ten days with the case being closed before the embroiled Minister would be out.
    True! But I can't recall one where, having said "case closed" then the minister resigning and the PM responding sadly to the resignation letter, the PM then claims to have sacked the minister.
    Has he actually said he sacked him? That seems to be Scott's spin.

    The bit I heard from the PM was that the story broke on the Friday and by Saturday there was a new Health Secretary. That was it, no claims on who sacked whom.
    Yes, he is claiming personal credit for there being a new SofS. But as we know this happened against his wishes. Perhaps in that peanut of a brain he actually does believe that he is responsible for Mancock going. Perhaps he's just a massive liar. Either way, it isn't true.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,546
    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    Arsenal Emirates Stadium are now offering 2nd vaccinations to people 21+ days after their first jab. Pfizer only I think. No appointment needed.

    Seems a slick operation and a lot of younger people turning up.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1409444400166547462?s=20

    Seems today is final day of the pop-up vaccination centre at Arsenal. Closes 8pm.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1409448252005621763?s=20

    Keep it going for FFS....as long as people are turning up, jab them.

    Why should Londoners get their second jab before me?
    The walk in centres are all over the country, not specifically on London.
    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/find-a-walk-in-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-site/

    If you've already had your 1st dose, you need to wait 8 weeks before having your 2nd dose.
    A friend of ours wanted to being her second dose (AZ) forwards from eleven weeks, and the system only allowed her to book dates eight weeks after her first. I hope that's a common-sense filter they've put into the booking system: only offer dates the correct period after the first for each jab type.

    Anybody else had similar experiences?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MrEd said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Australia's strict policy has failed to prevent the Delta variant from arriving and spreading.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9732481/Australias-Covid-success-crumbles-Cities-lockdown-borders-closed-hardly-vaccinations.html

    John Campbell was talking about transmission the other day before this kicked off. He was suggesting that previously nearly impossible to catch it outside and thought that normally you needed a certain amount of time in presence of the infected person to stand a chance of catching it.

    Now, he was hypothesizing that Indian variant more than likely results in infected individuals exhausting a lot more virus and that you need to be exposed to less of it to become infected. Thus outside carries some risk and you might well not need to be in the presence of individuals for very long at all.

    I read somewhere that in Australia so far with this outbreak (law of small numbers and all that) 100% of household transmission. Original variant, it was actually surprisingly low how much was transmitted even among those that lived with one another.
    If community transmission has started, Australia is in a very poor position. It's actually slightly more urbanised than the UK, has no prior natural immunity and is about 4 months behind us on vaccines.
    In no meaningful definition of the term is Australia more urbanised than the UK.

    Population density per square kilometre:
    Greater Manchester: 12,210
    Greater London: 5,701
    Greater Melbourne: 500
    Greater Sydney: 430
    As a percentage of the population that lives in big cities, it absolutely is - I think 80% lives in 5 main cities.
    Which is meaningless as the "big cities" are incredibly spacious and suburban compared to England.

    Almost everyone who lives in Victoria lives within what's considered "Melbourne" but Melbourne is so spread out that it covers a vast area and for almost all of them the houses are not remotely dense city living that you see in the UK.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Delaying a second dose of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine by almost a year results in better protection against Covid-19, a study suggests – while adding a third jab six months later boosts defences even further.

    University of Oxford researchers found that delaying a second jab up to 45 weeks after the first results in increased antibody levels – a key part of the body’s immune response – offering greater flexibility in vaccination schedules. A third dose six months after the second resulted in a further increase in antibody levels, they also found, mitigating scientists’ concerns that the design of the Oxford vaccine would limit repeated use.

    In the trial, 30 people aged between 18 and 55 years old received a late second dose of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine – an average 44 weeks after first dose – and their antibody levels were found to be higher than those who had their second jab between eight and 12 weeks after the first.

    https://inews.co.uk/news/health/covid-19-vaccines-delaying-second-dose-of-oxford-astrazeneca-jab-by-almost-a-year-gives-better-protection-1074750

    However, this strategy of further delaying dose 2 would not help wrt protection against the delta variant.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,173
    NEW THREAD
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,344
    Scott_xP said:

    Trolley Fri: Argh, accept apology I consider the matter closed
    Media/MP babble, 89 Carrie texts p/hour
    Trolley Sat, SMASH: Arghhh Matt go now you'll be back better stronger shortly matey forward to victory!
    Trolley Mon, CRASH: when I saw the story on Fri we had a new SoS on Sat

    https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1409488850855071748

    Cummings seems to have a few slates loose.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    Cookie said:

    Endillion said:

    Two more snippets from former colleagues involved in B&S:

    - Local imam has advised people to ignore outsiders "coming to make trouble", and to decide for themselves
    - Local news broadcast interviewed a number of Muslims, who all said they were not one group and had a variety of different issues.

    I do think that there is a London journalist problem here. Someone who spends two hours in a place that he couldn't have found on a map before is going to be tempted to take a theme and interview a dozen or so people, then pick the two or three who illustrate the theme. Insofar as that encourages the myth that all Muslims (or Hindus, Jews, WWC, etc.) vote as a bloc, it's actively damaging to national cohesion. Generally, people who say about any group, "They're all the same" are lying to you, whether out of malice or because it's simply more convenient.

    Wait, they all said they weren't one group and had different views?

    That sounds like a contradiction to me.
    Splitters!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4
    "YES, WE'RE ALL DIFFERENT!"
    "i'm not"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QereR0CViMY
    I still remember when. in my teens, I got stick for being a metalhead with short hair*. It was an early introduction to groupthink among alleged "out groups".

    Interestingly, the punk lot thought that "dressing square" as a sign of rejection of rejection of the system was acceptable.

    *Then Metallica copied my style....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    edited June 2021

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    Arsenal Emirates Stadium are now offering 2nd vaccinations to people 21+ days after their first jab. Pfizer only I think. No appointment needed.

    Seems a slick operation and a lot of younger people turning up.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1409444400166547462?s=20

    Seems today is final day of the pop-up vaccination centre at Arsenal. Closes 8pm.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1409448252005621763?s=20

    Keep it going for FFS....as long as people are turning up, jab them.

    Why should Londoners get their second jab before me?
    The walk in centres are all over the country, not specifically on London.
    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/find-a-walk-in-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-site/

    If you've already had your 1st dose, you need to wait 8 weeks before having your 2nd dose.
    A friend of ours wanted to being her second dose (AZ) forwards from eleven weeks, and the system only allowed her to book dates eight weeks after her first. I hope that's a common-sense filter they've put into the booking system: only offer dates the correct period after the first for each jab type.

    Anybody else had similar experiences?
    8 weeks is the minimum via the online system. GP and walk-ups are the ones offering the flexibility.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949
    edited June 2021

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    Arsenal Emirates Stadium are now offering 2nd vaccinations to people 21+ days after their first jab. Pfizer only I think. No appointment needed.

    Seems a slick operation and a lot of younger people turning up.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1409444400166547462?s=20

    Seems today is final day of the pop-up vaccination centre at Arsenal. Closes 8pm.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1409448252005621763?s=20

    Keep it going for FFS....as long as people are turning up, jab them.

    Why should Londoners get their second jab before me?
    The walk in centres are all over the country, not specifically on London.
    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/find-a-walk-in-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-site/

    If you've already had your 1st dose, you need to wait 8 weeks before having your 2nd dose.
    A friend of ours wanted to being her second dose (AZ) forwards from eleven weeks, and the system only allowed her to book dates eight weeks after her first. I hope that's a common-sense filter they've put into the booking system: only offer dates the correct period after the first for each jab type.

    Anybody else had similar experiences?
    Let's not forget the "correct" period (= the period the trials were conducted with) is three weeks.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Talking of India:

    EU denies green pass to Covishield; systematic racism by European Union? Top focus on #TTP with @PreetiChoudhry at 7:30 pm, only on India Today TV

    https://twitter.com/IndiaToday/status/1409498174696292352?s=20

    Covishield is Oxford AZ manufactured in India at the Serum Institute of India

    Technically, it looks like SII have not submitted their (identical AZ) vaccine to the EU for approval - hence the problem. Presumably AZ jabbed Australians won't be admitted either.....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    Endillion said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    Wonder how that will work?

    Here are the demands independent Scotland should make of foreign firms

    https://www.thenational.scot/business/19402904.demands-independent-scotland-make-foreign-firms/

    That article is one of the scariest things I have read in a long time. The capital flight from Scotland if this looks close to coming to pass would be irreparable. Our tax base could seriously collapse and the implied threat of stealing pensions to bank this madness will result in not only the money but many people leaving the country.
    Leaving aside all the rest, I can see this one positively driving existing businesses away:


    - A binding commitment on overseas companies under which they are obliged to offer first refusal to a management/worker takeover of a business in the event of the overseas owners deciding to close down production in Scotland. The commitment should also include a transfer or sharing of “intellectual property” (IP) such as product brands and patents.
    These people are a bunch of self appointed nutters but jeez. I remember one of the many excellent scenes in the Big Short
    https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/73c98341-6f2c-48ea-8c02-33b3c7538cb8
    The inevitable outcome if Scotland votes for independence will be slashed public spending in order to deal with the deficit. Tax rises would be suicidal as everyone significantly affected (high value individuals and business-owners) would simply hop over the border into the welcoming arms of rUK. This sort of madness, quoted above, would only accelerate the capital flight which would take place between the vote and actual independence.

    (And, borrowing, of course, would hardly be an option.)

    The Yes folk are really in a bind as IndyRef is impossible to win without persuading folk they will be better off. And its quite clear that the obvious would be the case, certainly for anyone dependent on the state to maintain their standard of living.

    Quite a conundrum.

    From my canvassing for BT, which was pretty extensive, I have no doubt at all that the biggest single issue resulting in the no vote was fear about what would happen to peoples' pensions. When you see the outriders of the Scottish government explaining that it will be the duty of pension fund managers to work constructively with the independent Scottish government to fund this brave new future I think that the independence referendum becomes unwinnable for yes. Its really not hard to sell the idea that these people want to steal your pension to fund their fantasy.

    But this doesn't mean that having a government obsessed with independence, difference and making political points instead of running the country can't do a lot of damage anyway. They did in 2014 and they will again.
    I think you need to bear in mind that the majority of pro-Indy voters believe that Scotland is a net financial contributor to UK.

    I saw correspondence in the local paper in which the Yes guy was arguing that the UK Govt would have a obligation to pay the state pension of people in Scotland after independence. Didn't seem to realise that there was no pension pot.

    Likewise some saying that Indy Scotland can just keep on using the pound (which, kind of, they can) because its our currency just as much as England's. No conception of the significance of a central bank.

    This is how SNP could win an independence referendum. Don't think they will. But they conceivably could if they are dishonest enough and the public credulous enough to believe them.
    The Whitehall Government was sending letters out to existing state pensioners in 2013-14 confirming that London would payt their state pension. (This is not, of course, relevant to new ones, or to private pensions.)

    Edit: the letters were sent to those who wrote in and asked. Not to all pensioners.
    C'mon Carnyx. You really think a rUK Govt is going to subsidise the pensions of people who are citizens of what would be a foreign country? And whose own Govt has just spent years execrating the Govt of said rUK.

    And for how long? And for how much?

    I didn't say that. The Whitehall government did, at least for a while. (Which surprised me at the time, it must be said.)
    As far as I can tell, all they said was that pensions would continue to be paid. Clearly all they should have said that it would be the responsibility of the new Scottish Government to pay them, but on the assumption that would happen, what they said was correct albeit clearly misleading. In any case, there's obviously no way that the case for independence could rest on being able to hold the Government to that letter seven years ago for the next several decades.
    The Bank of England also said they’d stand behind the totality of the National Debt. Doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be part of the negotiation process though.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,785
    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    Arsenal Emirates Stadium are now offering 2nd vaccinations to people 21+ days after their first jab. Pfizer only I think. No appointment needed.

    Seems a slick operation and a lot of younger people turning up.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1409444400166547462?s=20

    Seems today is final day of the pop-up vaccination centre at Arsenal. Closes 8pm.

    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1409448252005621763?s=20

    Keep it going for FFS....as long as people are turning up, jab them.

    Why should Londoners get their second jab before me?
    The walk in centres are all over the country, not specifically on London.
    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/find-a-walk-in-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-site/

    If you've already had your 1st dose, you need to wait 8 weeks before having your 2nd dose.
    Anecdotally that's not true anywhere in the country. People are walking in 3 or 4 weeks after their first dose and getting their second ones. I think they don't want to make it an official policy until they're absolutely sure that the first dose programme has been completed to avoid a rush to vaccine centres by people who want to get double jabbed before the 19th.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797

    A wonderful and fitting moment on Centre Court @Wimbledon just now as Prof Sarah Gilbert, sitting in the Royal Box, gets a deserved standing ovation from the crowd as the announcer notes the presence of many of those who have done so much during the pandemic.

    https://twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1409492360581496836?s=20

    Video:

    https://twitter.com/Wimbledon/status/1409492721715253251?s=20

    Excellent. Very well deserved.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,207
    edited June 2021
    Sean_F said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Trolley Fri: Argh, accept apology I consider the matter closed
    Media/MP babble, 89 Carrie texts p/hour
    Trolley Sat, SMASH: Arghhh Matt go now you'll be back better stronger shortly matey forward to victory!
    Trolley Mon, CRASH: when I saw the story on Fri we had a new SoS on Sat

    https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1409488850855071748

    Cummings seems to have a few slates loose.
    And now you've just noticed?

    Which nitwit first brought him to Westminster?

    Which nincompoop put him at the heart of Downing Street and kept him there after he was disgraced in a scandal?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Have the centrists been defending a leaflet from a smear campaign to make Labour look bad?!


  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,119

    I started coughing yesterday. Now have a test booked for this afternoon. My only contact with the outside world recently has been a few cycle rides, walking around the park, accepting deliveries of various sorts and telling the Scottish Power door-to-door salespeople to eff off. I'm five and a bit weeks post first dose of AZ.

    If I've still managed to catch the damn thing then there's little that can be done to stop anyone from catching it. Anyone wavering, do get vaccinated.

    Are there any stats on incidence of long Covid in people who've been vaccinated?

    Did you have Shredded Wheat without milk for breakfast?

    Could have caused the cough.

    Wishing you ATB.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414
    MattW said:

    I started coughing yesterday. Now have a test booked for this afternoon. My only contact with the outside world recently has been a few cycle rides, walking around the park, accepting deliveries of various sorts and telling the Scottish Power door-to-door salespeople to eff off. I'm five and a bit weeks post first dose of AZ.

    If I've still managed to catch the damn thing then there's little that can be done to stop anyone from catching it. Anyone wavering, do get vaccinated.

    Are there any stats on incidence of long Covid in people who've been vaccinated?

    Did you have Shredded Wheat without milk for breakfast?

    Could have caused the cough.

    Wishing you ATB.
    Couple of members of my extended family have, apparently, developed Covid. One has had both vaccinations, the other only one. Both live 'normal' lives, but no idea of their contacts.
    Neither particularly ill, according to the second hand reports we've had.

    Hope, Mr (?) Password that you feel OK shortly.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,049
    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    isam said:


    Sir Keir’s fan club are trying to defend the leaflet by saying the photo was doctored… here’s the original. How is it any better?


    No wonder they blacked out the text. The leaflet is about Islamophobia, and shows Boris Johnson meeting a notorious Islamophobe while pointing out the Tories' long history of Islaphobia, including Johnson's own comments. I think the leaflet is completely fine.
    Can't see what difference it makes. Either sectarian campaigns are ok or they are not.
    This is a landmark day - the day the sickeningly pious centrists admitted they were no different to Jezza, Farage, Boris, Nick Griffin and all the others they pretended to be outraged by.
    I cant work out if I'm one of the sickeningly pious centrist there or not.

    First avoidance of doubt I dont think the leaflet is ok even with the full context, since its divisive motivation on sectarian grounds seems clear.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,309
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    Wonder how that will work?

    Here are the demands independent Scotland should make of foreign firms

    https://www.thenational.scot/business/19402904.demands-independent-scotland-make-foreign-firms/

    That article is one of the scariest things I have read in a long time. The capital flight from Scotland if this looks close to coming to pass would be irreparable. Our tax base could seriously collapse and the implied threat of stealing pensions to bank this madness will result in not only the money but many people leaving the country.
    Leaving aside all the rest, I can see this one positively driving existing businesses away:


    - A binding commitment on overseas companies under which they are obliged to offer first refusal to a management/worker takeover of a business in the event of the overseas owners deciding to close down production in Scotland. The commitment should also include a transfer or sharing of “intellectual property” (IP) such as product brands and patents.
    These people are a bunch of self appointed nutters but jeez. I remember one of the many excellent scenes in the Big Short
    https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/73c98341-6f2c-48ea-8c02-33b3c7538cb8
    The inevitable outcome if Scotland votes for independence will be slashed public spending in order to deal with the deficit. Tax rises would be suicidal as everyone significantly affected (high value individuals and business-owners) would simply hop over the border into the welcoming arms of rUK. This sort of madness, quoted above, would only accelerate the capital flight which would take place between the vote and actual independence.

    (And, borrowing, of course, would hardly be an option.)

    The Yes folk are really in a bind as IndyRef is impossible to win without persuading folk they will be better off. And its quite clear that the obvious would be the case, certainly for anyone dependent on the state to maintain their standard of living.

    Quite a conundrum.

    From my canvassing for BT, which was pretty extensive, I have no doubt at all that the biggest single issue resulting in the no vote was fear about what would happen to peoples' pensions. When you see the outriders of the Scottish government explaining that it will be the duty of pension fund managers to work constructively with the independent Scottish government to fund this brave new future I think that the independence referendum becomes unwinnable for yes. Its really not hard to sell the idea that these people want to steal your pension to fund their fantasy.

    But this doesn't mean that having a government obsessed with independence, difference and making political points instead of running the country can't do a lot of damage anyway. They did in 2014 and they will again.
    I think you need to bear in mind that the majority of pro-Indy voters believe that Scotland is a net financial contributor to UK.

    I saw correspondence in the local paper in which the Yes guy was arguing that the UK Govt would have a obligation to pay the state pension of people in Scotland after independence. Didn't seem to realise that there was no pension pot.

    Likewise some saying that Indy Scotland can just keep on using the pound (which, kind of, they can) because its our currency just as much as England's. No conception of the significance of a central bank.

    This is how SNP could win an independence referendum. Don't think they will. But they conceivably could if they are dishonest enough and the public credulous enough to believe them.
    We had an interesting debate on here where @malcolmg was convinced that his pension would be paid by the English state. I think eventually he accepted that in the White Paper in 2014 that even the SNP acknowledged that continuing liability would run with the Scottish state and therefore be subject to their potential default. It doesn't seem to have changed his opinion yet on independence.

    The argument about a central bank is one that has plagued the debate for a decade or more now. Nationalists frequently point out that they own a share of the BoE. Putting aside the technicalities of shareholding there is some merit in this argument since the BoE is there for all of the UK, despite its name.

    The flaw is the failure to appreciate that a central bank is not an asset but a function or series of functions. Its ability to carry out those functions, such as regulation or being a lender of last resort, is contingent upon the legislative and fiscal support it receives from the government of the day. If Scotland goes independent it would no longer be underwriting those functions either legislatively or fiscally so it would have no say whatsoever in how these functions are operated. If, to take an example, a housing boom in the south of England results in higher interest rates and that causes a recession in Scotland that is just tough.

    So we can continue to use Sterling but accept as a consequence that we have no say whatsoever on interest rate or monetary policy. If rUK chooses to debauch its currency with even more QE we simply have to accept the subsequent devaluation and inflation. It also means all our major financial institutions have to be registered in England to get LOLR protection with seriously adverse consequences to our tax base.
    @Burgessian @DavidL @Carnyx

    David , I did not accept the argument. My position was that anyone who has contributed for 50 years and is on a pension will remain a liability of the rUK, going forward obviously Scotland wouldbe responsible for any
    funding. Just because the rUK ahs plundered the contributions does not mean it can just walk away, that would be part of the negotiations and the sharing of UK assets.
    Regarding the pound , only an idiot would try to say we could not use it if we wanted to, of course their would be plusses and minuses but given it would take a long time to unravel all the joint infrastructures, move all the civil service and government jobs north , split all the assets then it would be sensible for a spell to retain the pound until all sorted and we move to a Scottish pound with our own central bank.
    In any event there would be an orderly move to a Scottish currency , same as almost every country in theworld has managed easily when they split from their colonial overlords.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited June 2021
    The Brexit argument was based on the essential myth that we could retain all the benefits of the single market with none of the compromises.

    Scottish independence has its own myth; that the newly independent Scotland would not face a significant fiscal and monetary crisis at birth.

    It is quite possible to live outside the single market, and it is quite possible to have an independent Scotland.

    But there are costs.
This discussion has been closed.