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Favoured Voters – politicalbetting.com

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  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291
    edited June 2021
    Pagan2 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Well done to Boris for pulling the plug on the "special relationship" - Maybe he'll be the first PM to defy the US since Thatcher... or possibly Wilson!

    It's been a long time coming... Tell the US to **** off!!!

    And if they don't like it we're out of NATO and they can get on with it with the French and Germans...

    We quit nato?
    If it has to come to it then yes!

    Why should we put up with the US pushing us around and treating us like we're a piece if shit?

    It's time to tell the US to treat us with respect or we're out of NATO and they can get on with it with the French!!!! See how far they get lol!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Charles said:

    Demagogenverfolgung!

    Bless you
    Weltanschauung!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,876
    Pagan2 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Well done to Boris for pulling the plug on the "special relationship" - Maybe he'll be the first PM to defy the US since Thatcher... or possibly Wilson!

    It's been a long time coming... Tell the US to **** off!!!

    And if they don't like it we're out of NATO and they can get on with it with the French and Germans...

    We quit nato?
    Would sort of help if you linked the story you are talking about
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,080
    Did the pandemic start in a Wuhan lab? - BBC Newsnight

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb8nHYCdUVc
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,876
    I googled uk nato special relationship and couldnt find relevant story
    #
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Batley - Good day, my dear Batley! I say, isn't this whole woke problem something awful?

    Spen - Why hello there, Spen! Woke problem, you say? Why, yes, I guess awful is the world for it, isn't it?

    Batley - You said it, old bean! Just terrible how woke is sapping the very vitals of our civilization and heritage!

    Spen - I hear you, loud and clear! Nothing disturbs me more, than endangering our vitals with a lot of woke!

    Batley - I say, Spen, do you have a clue what I'm talking about, that is, what's what with woke?

    Spen - Of course, old thing. It's what's keeping you woke up with worry and making you so irritable!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291
    Pagan2 said:

    I googled uk nato special relationship and couldnt find relevant story
    #

    The US think they can push us around and treat us like shit and we'll always be there to support them in their endless, stupid and pointless wars... well it's time to say no!

    Boris has made a good but it's time to go further... They treat us with the respect we deserve as the only NATO member that always supports them in whatever stupid policy they have... Or we're done!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    GIN1138 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I googled uk nato special relationship and couldnt find relevant story
    #

    The US think they can push us around and treat us like shit and we'll always be there to support them in their endless, stupid and pointless wars... well it's time to say no!

    Boris has made a good but it's time to go further... They treat us with the respect we deserve as the only NATO member that always supports them in whatever stupid policy they have... Or we're done!
    Could you please tell us, precisely what you are talking about?
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Our Danish contributors have often noted the supposed UK-Danish relationship

    https://external-preview.redd.it/5DnL9h6VDZDrByAXbFKa5kFt7XI-xCV7BF9Gqc7vR6M.png?width=749&auto=webp&s=d3e74b01add48a317c165660a1d848d74d645dac

    Poll of major EU countries about whether the UK is 'an ally that shares our interests and values', 'a necessary partner who we must strategically cooperate with', 'DK', 'a rival' and 'an adversary'.

    Denmark scores with 71% saying that we are an ally or necessary partner. Sweden (76%), Netherlands (68%), Poland (72%), and Portugal (73%) (the UK's oldest ally) also score very highly.

    Just because we've left the EU doesn't mean that we need to turn our back on Europe.

    French - 18%
    Germany 14%

    😂
    Lets put it this way, almost four times as many French people approve of Johnson than consider us an enemy ;)

    The last poll showed that he received 30%+ among all aspects of the Fr political spectrum (3rd highest among all politicians surveyed, wit neither of the two above being Macron & Le Pen).

    A victory for all involved should be making him run, and win the French presidency, while stepping down in the UK.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Re Margaret Thatcher, Harold Wilson & the "Special Relationship" am not aware of any situation where either HW or MT "defied" a POTUS.

    Wilson did NOT go along with LBJ's urging him to send British troops to Vietnam or otherwise join in hostilities. And Thatcher did NOT go along with Reagan's (half-hearted) desire to soft-peddle the Falkland Island crisis.

    But "defy" hardly does either situation justice. Certainly neither caused serious rupture in UK-US relations.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585
    edited June 2021
    I don't think there's any actual place called Spen, it's just a word that describes a district.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291

    GIN1138 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I googled uk nato special relationship and couldnt find relevant story
    #

    The US think they can push us around and treat us like shit and we'll always be there to support them in their endless, stupid and pointless wars... well it's time to say no!

    Boris has made a good but it's time to go further... They treat us with the respect we deserve as the only NATO member that always supports them in whatever stupid policy they have... Or we're done!
    Could you please tell us, precisely what you are talking about?
    US: We're going to go to war with Afghanistan (for no reason other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooooo....!!!!!!!


    US: We're going to go with Iraq (for no reason whatever other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm.....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooo....

    We are always there when the US wants to do something stupid.. It's time we said no more (unless they give us the respect we deserve)
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I googled uk nato special relationship and couldnt find relevant story
    #

    The US think they can push us around and treat us like shit and we'll always be there to support them in their endless, stupid and pointless wars... well it's time to say no!

    Boris has made a good but it's time to go further... They treat us with the respect we deserve as the only NATO member that always supports them in whatever stupid policy they have... Or we're done!
    Could you please tell us, precisely what you are talking about?
    US: We're going to go to war with Afghanistan (for no reason other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooooo....!!!!!!!


    US: We're going to go with Iraq (for no reason whatever other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm.....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooo....

    We are always there when the US wants to do something stupid.. It's time we said no more (unless they give us the respect we deserve)
    You said - 'Well done to Boris for pulling the plug on the "special relationship"'

    So when did the Prime Minister do THAT?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I googled uk nato special relationship and couldnt find relevant story
    #

    The US think they can push us around and treat us like shit and we'll always be there to support them in their endless, stupid and pointless wars... well it's time to say no!

    Boris has made a good but it's time to go further... They treat us with the respect we deserve as the only NATO member that always supports them in whatever stupid policy they have... Or we're done!
    Could you please tell us, precisely what you are talking about?
    US: We're going to go to war with Afghanistan (for no reason other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooooo....!!!!!!!


    US: We're going to go with Iraq (for no reason whatever other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm.....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooo....

    We are always there when the US wants to do something stupid.. It's time we said no more (unless they give us the respect we deserve)
    You said - 'Well done to Boris for pulling the plug on the "special relationship"'

    So when did the Prime Minister do THAT?
    Well... he's said he doesn't like the term... so he's giving them a warning shot across the bows...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Andy_JS said:

    I don't think there's any actual place called Spen, it's just a word that describes a district.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Spen
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I googled uk nato special relationship and couldnt find relevant story
    #

    The US think they can push us around and treat us like shit and we'll always be there to support them in their endless, stupid and pointless wars... well it's time to say no!

    Boris has made a good but it's time to go further... They treat us with the respect we deserve as the only NATO member that always supports them in whatever stupid policy they have... Or we're done!
    Could you please tell us, precisely what you are talking about?
    US: We're going to go to war with Afghanistan (for no reason other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooooo....!!!!!!!


    US: We're going to go with Iraq (for no reason whatever other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm.....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooo....

    We are always there when the US wants to do something stupid.. It's time we said no more (unless they give us the respect we deserve)
    You said - 'Well done to Boris for pulling the plug on the "special relationship"'

    So when did the Prime Minister do THAT?
    Well... he's said he doesn't like the term... so he's giving them a warning shot across the bows...
    That's it? Suspect you are gonna be disappointed when Boris does NOT "pull the plug".

    theatlantic.com - THE MINISTER OF CHAOS - Boris Johnson knows exactly what he’s doing.
    By Tom McTague

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/boris-johnson-minister-of-chaos/619010/

    ". . . . Johnson believes there remains a “world-weariness” in the government that has to be “squeezed out,” one of his ministers told me. Johnsonism, an aide said, was partly about “puffing our chest out and saying, ‘We’re Britain.’ ” (Several of Johnson’s advisers agreed to be candid in exchange for anonymity.) In an early phone call with Joe Biden, an aide told me, Johnson said he disliked the phrase special relationship after the president used it. To Johnson it seemed needy and weak."

    So Boris Johnson is "puffing" - semantics NOT substance.

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291
    edited June 2021

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I googled uk nato special relationship and couldnt find relevant story
    #

    The US think they can push us around and treat us like shit and we'll always be there to support them in their endless, stupid and pointless wars... well it's time to say no!

    Boris has made a good but it's time to go further... They treat us with the respect we deserve as the only NATO member that always supports them in whatever stupid policy they have... Or we're done!
    Could you please tell us, precisely what you are talking about?
    US: We're going to go to war with Afghanistan (for no reason other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooooo....!!!!!!!


    US: We're going to go with Iraq (for no reason whatever other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm.....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooo....

    We are always there when the US wants to do something stupid.. It's time we said no more (unless they give us the respect we deserve)
    You said - 'Well done to Boris for pulling the plug on the "special relationship"'

    So when did the Prime Minister do THAT?
    Well... he's said he doesn't like the term... so he's giving them a warning shot across the bows...
    That's it? Suspect you are gonna be disappointed when Boris does NOT "pull the plug".

    theatlantic.com - THE MINISTER OF CHAOS - Boris Johnson knows exactly what he’s doing.
    By Tom McTague

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/boris-johnson-minister-of-chaos/619010/

    ". . . . Johnson believes there remains a “world-weariness” in the government that has to be “squeezed out,” one of his ministers told me. Johnsonism, an aide said, was partly about “puffing our chest out and saying, ‘We’re Britain.’ ” (Several of Johnson’s advisers agreed to be candid in exchange for anonymity.) In an early phone call with Joe Biden, an aide told me, Johnson said he disliked the phrase special relationship after the president used it. To Johnson it seemed needy and weak."

    So Boris Johnson is "puffing" - semantics NOT substance.

    LOL!! We'll see. Boris may yet prove to be a let down. But who knows... maybe Biden will push Boris too far...

    I'm convinced there needs to be a "settling up" between the US and UK before we can truly move on from Blair and Iraq... Eventually a UK PM will have to defy the US if only to be able to move the country on from the Blair/Bush era....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,689

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I googled uk nato special relationship and couldnt find relevant story
    #

    The US think they can push us around and treat us like shit and we'll always be there to support them in their endless, stupid and pointless wars... well it's time to say no!

    Boris has made a good but it's time to go further... They treat us with the respect we deserve as the only NATO member that always supports them in whatever stupid policy they have... Or we're done!
    Could you please tell us, precisely what you are talking about?
    US: We're going to go to war with Afghanistan (for no reason other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooooo....!!!!!!!


    US: We're going to go with Iraq (for no reason whatever other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm.....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooo....

    We are always there when the US wants to do something stupid.. It's time we said no more (unless they give us the respect we deserve)
    You said - 'Well done to Boris for pulling the plug on the "special relationship"'

    So when did the Prime Minister do THAT?
    Well... he's said he doesn't like the term... so he's giving them a warning shot across the bows...
    That's it? Suspect you are gonna be disappointed when Boris does NOT "pull the plug".
    He doesn't need to "pull the plug" but simply kick the can.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I googled uk nato special relationship and couldnt find relevant story
    #

    The US think they can push us around and treat us like shit and we'll always be there to support them in their endless, stupid and pointless wars... well it's time to say no!

    Boris has made a good but it's time to go further... They treat us with the respect we deserve as the only NATO member that always supports them in whatever stupid policy they have... Or we're done!
    Could you please tell us, precisely what you are talking about?
    US: We're going to go to war with Afghanistan (for no reason other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooooo....!!!!!!!


    US: We're going to go with Iraq (for no reason whatever other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm.....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooo....

    We are always there when the US wants to do something stupid.. It's time we said no more (unless they give us the respect we deserve)
    You said - 'Well done to Boris for pulling the plug on the "special relationship"'

    So when did the Prime Minister do THAT?
    Well... he's said he doesn't like the term... so he's giving them a warning shot across the bows...
    That's it? Suspect you are gonna be disappointed when Boris does NOT "pull the plug".
    He doesn't need to "pull the plug" but simply kick the can.
    Won't even do that.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    New York Post - Adams in lead but Wiley surges following AOC endorsement: poll

    https://nypost.com/2021/06/09/adams-in-lead-but-wiley-surges-following-aoc-endorsement-poll/?utm_campaign=iphone_nyp&utm_source=com.microsoft.Office.Outlook.compose-shareextension

    Eric Adams holds a 6-point lead in the Democratic primary for mayor, but a surging Maya Wiley has emerged as his chief rival after landing the endorsement of lefty firebrand Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, according to a new poll released Wednesday.

    Adams, the Brooklyn Borough President, got support from 23 percent of the 725 likely Democratic voters in the survey conducted by PIX 11/Emerson College on Monday and Tuesday.

    The support for Adams — who has made public safety a cornerstone of his campaign — increased 3 percentage points from 20 percent in the prior Pix 11/Emerson College poll, released on May 25.

    But Wiley, the former chief counsel to Mayor Bill de Blasio, leapfrogged into second place with 17 percent of the vote, nearly doubling the nine percent since she registered in the prior PIX 11/Emerson College poll released on May 25.

    Her jump comes just days after she was endorsed on Saturday June 5 by Ocasio-Cortez. . . .

    Entrepreneur Andrew Yang garnered the backing of 15 percent of Democrats — maintaining his third place position from the last poll.

    The other big development was the drop in support for former city Sanitation Commissioner Kathryn Garcia. She sank nine points, going from the top of the heap, with 21 percent support, to just 12 percent in this latest poll.

    City Comptroller Scott Stringer — whose campaign has been rocked by sexual harassment claims — rounded out the top five with the backing of 9 percent of Democratic voters.

    Nonprofit executive Dianne Morales, whose campaign imploded amid staff upheaval, saw her support crater from 7 percent of respondents to 2 percent.

    Meanwhile the big spending campaigns of Shaun Dovan and Ray McGuire are also at the back of the pack. Donovan, the former director of city and federal housing agencies, received 4 percent support and retired Citigroup executive McGuire 3 percent.

    Another 12 percent of Democrats said they were undecided. Primary day is June 22 and 10 days of early voting begins on Saturday.

    Pix 11/Emerson College also conducted a rare survey on the Republican primary for mayor. The results: 33 percent of Republicans favored Guardian Angels founder Curtis Sliwa versus 27 percent for taxi-bodega advocate Fernando Mateo — with a large 40 percent saying they were still undecided. The poll queried 250 Republicans and has a 6.2 percentage point margin of error.

    Crime was cited as the top issue by about one-third of all of the 1,162 voters surveyed. Another 12 percent cited police reform as a pressing issue.

    Emerson College polling director Spencer Kimball said the explosive crime issue in the city is likely aiding the campaign of Adams, a retired police officer, since he has made it his signature issue. . . .
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,689

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I googled uk nato special relationship and couldnt find relevant story
    #

    The US think they can push us around and treat us like shit and we'll always be there to support them in their endless, stupid and pointless wars... well it's time to say no!

    Boris has made a good but it's time to go further... They treat us with the respect we deserve as the only NATO member that always supports them in whatever stupid policy they have... Or we're done!
    Could you please tell us, precisely what you are talking about?
    US: We're going to go to war with Afghanistan (for no reason other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooooo....!!!!!!!


    US: We're going to go with Iraq (for no reason whatever other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm.....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooo....

    We are always there when the US wants to do something stupid.. It's time we said no more (unless they give us the respect we deserve)
    You said - 'Well done to Boris for pulling the plug on the "special relationship"'

    So when did the Prime Minister do THAT?
    Well... he's said he doesn't like the term... so he's giving them a warning shot across the bows...
    That's it? Suspect you are gonna be disappointed when Boris does NOT "pull the plug".
    He doesn't need to "pull the plug" but simply kick the can.
    Won't even do that.
    So what’s your prediction? That he’ll agree to follow EU SPS rules?
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited June 2021
    [Delete]
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I googled uk nato special relationship and couldnt find relevant story
    #

    The US think they can push us around and treat us like shit and we'll always be there to support them in their endless, stupid and pointless wars... well it's time to say no!

    Boris has made a good but it's time to go further... They treat us with the respect we deserve as the only NATO member that always supports them in whatever stupid policy they have... Or we're done!
    Could you please tell us, precisely what you are talking about?
    US: We're going to go to war with Afghanistan (for no reason other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooooo....!!!!!!!


    US: We're going to go with Iraq (for no reason whatever other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm.....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooo....

    We are always there when the US wants to do something stupid.. It's time we said no more (unless they give us the respect we deserve)
    You said - 'Well done to Boris for pulling the plug on the "special relationship"'

    So when did the Prime Minister do THAT?
    Well... he's said he doesn't like the term... so he's giving them a warning shot across the bows...
    That's it? Suspect you are gonna be disappointed when Boris does NOT "pull the plug".
    He doesn't need to "pull the plug" but simply kick the can.
    Won't even do that.
    So what’s your prediction? That he’ll agree to follow EU SPS rules?
    Don't have a clue, way beyond my limited expertise. My thought is, there will be negotiation on variety of points, which Biden & his entourage will be well-prepared to discuss and help negotiate. Which is something that Uncle Joe has PLENTY of experience with, and is better than your average bear.

    Methinks this is a win-win for US and UK, especially Boris has a serious negotiating partner who actual does take the "special relationship" seriously, and NOT as a one-way street.

    NOR is the Good Friday Agreement his sole priority, though it IS a biggie, and NOT just because of the Irish that's in 'em.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited June 2021
    Some thoughts on the Sidewalks of New York circa 2021

    > based on latest polling, race for mayor is still fluid (a Gotham tradition) but is starting to gel

    > winner of the June Democratic primary will end up winning the general election to become next Mayor of NYC, given the weakness of the 2-candidate Republican field, highlighted by 40% of likely GOP voters still undecided (only 12% of Democrats are still undecided).

    > At of the Dem field, neither Sean Donovan nor Raymond McGuire has gained the slightest bit of traction since the race began.

    > Speaking of dust, two progressive hopefuls are biting it hard: Scott Springer, who looked like a potential winner early in the race, wounded by one sexual harassment allegation, and brought down by another; and Dianne Morales the most "woke" of all the candidates who was hoist on her own protest banner when her campaign staff formed a union and went out on strike against her.

    > Kathryn Garcia is in her own category; endorsed by New York Times AND the Daily News as the most qualified, experienced and competent big city manager in the race; but except for short-lived poll lead, she's NOT been able to obtain any momentum, in large part because she is a pretty low-key kind of politico, certainly by Big Apple standards.

    > Andrew Yang, early front runner, has faded significantly in the past two months, until he's in 3rd place in the latest Emerson College poll; he still has a fair amount of 2nd-choice strength, but he needs a game-changer, and soon.

    > By contrast, Maya Wiley got her game-changer this week with AOC's endorsement; really Ocasio's support is ratification of fact that Wiley is effectively last-woman standing on the progressive side, with Springer & Morales dead in the water, and Garcia insufficiently progressive / too establishment.

    > Eric Adams is the last but certainly not last on the list, indeed he's #1 in the Emerson poll and also in other recent polling. Despite some questions & fuzziness in his official record (such as where he actually lives) as Black former NYPD officer and current Brooklyn Borough President Adams has both a sizable personal political base AND a compelling argument in age of BLM and at time when crime is top concern of NYC voters.

    Right now, this looks like Eric Adam's to lose. He appears to be a good bet to make it to the final round of the RCV process, when it's just two candidates left and it call comes down to who has the most votes, first preferences + transfers from other hopefuls.

    IF the final is Adams v Wiley, then my guess is that he beats her because he'll be the choice of most Blacks AND most White voters. On the other hand, if the choice in the end is Adams v Yang, then Black will go overwhelming for Adams, while many progressives AND moderates will also go his route.

    Caveat - still enough time for a bombshell of some sort to have an impact, or even a severe stumble by one or more of the top candidates.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited June 2021
    Seattle Times ($)

    Seattle has become the first major American city to reach its goal of fully vaccinating 70% of residents 12 and older, helping push Washington toward its overall vaccination and reopening targets.

    Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan touted the milestone in a news release Wednesday, saying the city has surpassed San Francisco to take the lead in COVID-19 vaccine jabs.

    “Seattle is America’s most vaccinated major city, and it would not have been possible without our residents’ commitment to protecting themselves, their loved ones and our entire community,” Durkan said in the statement.

    Durkan said 78% of Seattleites 12 and up have started the vaccination process. The city itself has administered nearly 250,000 vaccinations for about 131,000 individuals, the mayor’s office said.

    The vaccinations have taken place at adult family homes, affordable housing buildings, community pop-up clinics, sporting events and other locations. The city plans to shut down its mass-vaccination center at Lumen Field at the end of the day on Saturday.

    At a news conference Wednesday afternoon, Gov. Jay Inslee praised Seattle’s efforts and said the state is nearing its own goal of getting at least 70% of people 16 and older to receive at least one vaccine dose.

    “This is an amazing moment in our state,” Inslee said. “We are now close to being able to essentially fully reopen.”

    Inslee said 66.4% of state residents have received at least an initial vaccine dose. That total was boosted in part by the state adding in 152,000 residents who received vaccines through the Department of Defense and Veterans Affairs, the governor said.

    Inslee reiterated the state will allow reopening from COVID-19 restrictions on June 30, even if the vaccination target is not met, but sooner if it is reached.

    Statewide, more than 7.3 million vaccine doses have been given, according to the state Department of Health. . . .

    Inslee said there are “some early signs” that the state’s recently launched lottery prizes — including a $1 million jackpot— for Washington residents who have been vaccinated has resulted in an uptick in vaccine appointments. But, he added, “we can’t say anything definitive yet about the impact.”

    The first lottery drawings were held Tuesday, Inslee said.

    Inslee also announced that after June 30, some restrictions will remain in place for large indoor facilities.

    He said such venues that can hold crowds of 10,000 or more people will remain limited to 75% capacity. There will be no physical-distancing requirements, but attendees will have to abide by masking guidelines
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,919

    Andy_JS said:

    I don't think there's any actual place called Spen, it's just a word that describes a district.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Spen
    Spen gets zapped under the Boundary Commission's proposals for the oddly-shaped Batley and Hipperholme.
    https://boundarycommissionforengland.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/2021-06-08-Yorkshire-and-the-Humber-Initial-Proposals-3.-Batley-and-Hipperholme-BC.pdf
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited June 2021

    Andy_JS said:

    I don't think there's any actual place called Spen, it's just a word that describes a district.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Spen
    Spen gets zapped under the Boundary Commission's proposals for the oddly-shaped Batley and Hipperholme.
    https://boundarycommissionforengland.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/2021-06-08-Yorkshire-and-the-Humber-Initial-Proposals-3.-Batley-and-Hipperholme-BC.pdf
    The bastards! HOW can they do this, to one of Britain's best-loved comedy duos?!?!

    Though "the Hipperholme" sounds like the kind of place Batley & Spen would have headlined in their heyday.

    EDIT - on the map new constituency looks sorta like that new pasta shape. Or a prehistoric bird.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,919

    New York Post - Adams in lead but Wiley surges following AOC endorsement: poll

    https://nypost.com/2021/06/09/adams-in-lead-but-wiley-surges-following-aoc-endorsement-poll/?utm_campaign=iphone_nyp&utm_source=com.microsoft.Office.Outlook.compose-shareextension

    Eric Adams holds a 6-point lead in the Democratic primary for mayor, but a surging Maya Wiley has emerged as his chief rival after landing the endorsement of lefty firebrand Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, according to a new poll released Wednesday.

    Adams, the Brooklyn Borough President, got support from 23 percent of the 725 likely Democratic voters in the survey conducted by PIX 11/Emerson College on Monday and Tuesday.

    The support for Adams — who has made public safety a cornerstone of his campaign — increased 3 percentage points from 20 percent in the prior Pix 11/Emerson College poll, released on May 25.

    But Wiley, the former chief counsel to Mayor Bill de Blasio, leapfrogged into second place with 17 percent of the vote, nearly doubling the nine percent since she registered in the prior PIX 11/Emerson College poll released on May 25.

    Her jump comes just days after she was endorsed on Saturday June 5 by Ocasio-Cortez. . . .

    Entrepreneur Andrew Yang garnered the backing of 15 percent of Democrats — maintaining his third place position from the last poll.

    The other big development was the drop in support for former city Sanitation Commissioner Kathryn Garcia. She sank nine points, going from the top of the heap, with 21 percent support, to just 12 percent in this latest poll.

    City Comptroller Scott Stringer — whose campaign has been rocked by sexual harassment claims — rounded out the top five with the backing of 9 percent of Democratic voters.

    Nonprofit executive Dianne Morales, whose campaign imploded amid staff upheaval, saw her support crater from 7 percent of respondents to 2 percent.

    Meanwhile the big spending campaigns of Shaun Dovan and Ray McGuire are also at the back of the pack. Donovan, the former director of city and federal housing agencies, received 4 percent support and retired Citigroup executive McGuire 3 percent.

    Another 12 percent of Democrats said they were undecided. Primary day is June 22 and 10 days of early voting begins on Saturday.

    Pix 11/Emerson College also conducted a rare survey on the Republican primary for mayor. The results: 33 percent of Republicans favored Guardian Angels founder Curtis Sliwa versus 27 percent for taxi-bodega advocate Fernando Mateo — with a large 40 percent saying they were still undecided. The poll queried 250 Republicans and has a 6.2 percentage point margin of error.

    Crime was cited as the top issue by about one-third of all of the 1,162 voters surveyed. Another 12 percent cited police reform as a pressing issue.

    Emerson College polling director Spencer Kimball said the explosive crime issue in the city is likely aiding the campaign of Adams, a retired police officer, since he has made it his signature issue. . . .

    A very thin nominee market on Betfair has:-
    Adams 1.72
    Yang 3.15
    Wiley 7
    Garcia 9.6

    All are marginally bigger in the equally thin Mayor market except for Maya Wiley who is a point shorter at 6. Perhaps someone saw the poll but not the other market.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited June 2021
    Of the many qualms I have about this tory administration, bribing voters is low down. Why so? Because it has gone on since the dawn of political democracy, in every country including ours.

    I guess additionally that if I ranked the honesty and morality of professions, at the bottom would be bankers and estate agents. And then in a separate table all to themselves, far far beneath, in some infernal dungeon, there would be MPs and politicians.

    In some ways the blatancy of this is to be welcomed. I'd rather see the cash above the table than underneath it.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I googled uk nato special relationship and couldnt find relevant story
    #

    The US think they can push us around and treat us like shit and we'll always be there to support them in their endless, stupid and pointless wars... well it's time to say no!

    Boris has made a good but it's time to go further... They treat us with the respect we deserve as the only NATO member that always supports them in whatever stupid policy they have... Or we're done!
    Could you please tell us, precisely what you are talking about?
    Have a guess.

    It is the same constituency every POTUS kisses the arse of and this buffoon is now using it to stick his fucking oar in about the EU while a guest in our country. Frankly it’s about time a British PM told a POTUS to do one. I am not a fan of Mr. Johnson but on this he is nailed on. How dare a President of any nation come to our country and do this?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,919

    Of the many qualms I have about this tory administration, bribing voters is low down. Why so? Because it has gone on since the dawn of political democracy, in every country including ours.

    I guess additionally that if I ranked the honesty and morality of professions, at the bottom would be bankers and estate agents. And then in a separate table all to themselves, far far beneath, in some infernal dungeon, there would be MPs and politicians.

    In some ways the blatancy of this is to be welcomed. I'd rather see the cash above the table than underneath it.

    Not recently; not here. This shows the weakness of our democratic conventions. If Honourable Members do not behave honourably, there is not much that can be done about it, at least while they or their protectors ride high in the polls.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    edited June 2021
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I googled uk nato special relationship and couldnt find relevant story
    #

    The US think they can push us around and treat us like shit and we'll always be there to support them in their endless, stupid and pointless wars... well it's time to say no!

    Boris has made a good but it's time to go further... They treat us with the respect we deserve as the only NATO member that always supports them in whatever stupid policy they have... Or we're done!
    Could you please tell us, precisely what you are talking about?
    US: We're going to go to war with Afghanistan (for no reason other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooooo....!!!!!!!

    The Germans (through the NATO ISAF) and French (through Ops Pamir and Herakles) were heavily involved in Afghanistan. The CdG battle group was also in the Indian Ocean contributing tacair for most of the 2001/2 winter.

    The French stepped in the shit in the Uzbin Valley but, in stark contrast to certain other allied forces, did demonstrate a capacity to learn and change. They very sensibly stopped having anything to do with the ANA or any other Afghan forces which stopped intel leaks and Green-on-Blue incidents.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Nearly 14C in the fog this morning; I've not seen that before - foggy mornings by the sea are normally cold
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited June 2021

    Of the many qualms I have about this tory administration, bribing voters is low down. Why so? Because it has gone on since the dawn of political democracy, in every country including ours.

    I guess additionally that if I ranked the honesty and morality of professions, at the bottom would be bankers and estate agents. And then in a separate table all to themselves, far far beneath, in some infernal dungeon, there would be MPs and politicians.

    In some ways the blatancy of this is to be welcomed. I'd rather see the cash above the table than underneath it.

    Not recently; not here. .
    I'm sorry but that's staggeringly naive.

    I studied politics 40 years ago and corruption was systemic then, as now. Dear old Wilson had his beer and sandwich sessions with the unions (and the unions are some of the most corrupt organisations in the country), Thatcher had the newspaper magnates, which Tony Blair then aped with Murdoch, who gave him free holidays until he started shagging his wife. There have been motorways built and car factories (deLorean who was an utter crook for example), constituencies favoured, duck houses and cash for questions, and honour bribes, and blind eyes turned (Maxwell). I could go on and on and on and on and on.

    Corruption in British politics has been utterly systemic for donkey's years. It's just that when the cash is flaunted above the table rather than underneath it you notice and seem shocked.

    It has been ever thus.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Of the many qualms I have about this tory administration, bribing voters is low down. Why so? Because it has gone on since the dawn of political democracy, in every country including ours.

    I guess additionally that if I ranked the honesty and morality of professions, at the bottom would be bankers and estate agents. And then in a separate table all to themselves, far far beneath, in some infernal dungeon, there would be MPs and politicians.

    In some ways the blatancy of this is to be welcomed. I'd rather see the cash above the table than underneath it.

    Not recently; not here. .
    I'm sorry but that's staggeringly naive.

    I studied politics 40 years ago and corruption was systemic then, as now. Dear old Wilson had his beer and sandwich sessions with the unions (and the unions are some of the most corrupt organisations in the country), Thatcher had the newspaper magnates, which Tony Blair then aped with Murdoch, who gave him free holidays until he started shagging his wife. There have been motorways built and car factories (deLorean who was an utter crook for example), constituencies favoured, duck houses and cash for questions, and honour bribes, and blind eyes turned (Maxwell). I could go on and on and on and on and on.

    Corruption in British politics has been utterly systemic for donkey's years. It's just that when the cash is flaunted above the table rather than underneath it you notice and seem shocked.

    It has been ever thus.
    Nah , Boris is taking it to the next level. This is something new.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,919

    Of the many qualms I have about this tory administration, bribing voters is low down. Why so? Because it has gone on since the dawn of political democracy, in every country including ours.

    I guess additionally that if I ranked the honesty and morality of professions, at the bottom would be bankers and estate agents. And then in a separate table all to themselves, far far beneath, in some infernal dungeon, there would be MPs and politicians.

    In some ways the blatancy of this is to be welcomed. I'd rather see the cash above the table than underneath it.

    Not recently; not here. .
    I'm sorry but that's staggeringly naive.

    I studied politics 40 years ago and corruption was systemic then, as now. Dear old Wilson had his beer and sandwich sessions with the unions (and the unions are some of the most corrupt organisations in the country), Thatcher had the newspaper magnates, which Tony Blair then aped with Murdoch, who gave him free holidays until he started shagging his wife. There have been motorways built and car factories (deLorean who was an utter crook for example), constituencies favoured, duck houses and cash for questions, and honour bribes, and blind eyes turned (Maxwell). I could go on and on and on and on and on.

    Corruption in British politics has been utterly systemic for donkey's years. It's just that when the cash is flaunted above the table rather than underneath it you notice and seem shocked.

    It has been ever thus.
    Well, yes, if all those things are corrupt then corruption is endemic but it seems to me you are comparing apples to oranges. Beer and sandwiches dates from when governments would seek to end strikes, which ended under Mrs Thatcher, and which also involved negotiation with management. Partisan newspapers may be deplorable (or a fine illustration of the power of a free press) but again this is not the same thing. Government investment in marginal constituencies was a running gag in Yes, Minister but what we now see is systematic abuse.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,448
    edited June 2021
    IanB2 said:

    Nearly 14C in the fog this morning; I've not seen that before - foggy mornings by the sea are normally cold

    Nearly 16 here, sun breaking through some high cloud. Bodes well for the u3a discussion group I'm headed for later. In the Group Leader's garden, I hasten to add.

    Must say I'm inclined to agree with Mr Cockney that Ms Cyclefree is somewhat over-egging the pudding this time, although Mr C is rather over-stating his case as well.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited June 2021
    My point is that it's always been going on. It's just now more open and obvious.

    Arguably that's a good thing.

    I mentioned DeLorean as one tiny example (he wouldn't have liked the word 'tiny' being applied to his tool making). Do you really think that when Jim Callaghan handed over millions of taxpayers' money to a West Belfast suburb that had never made cars that it was done just to help poor people out of a hole? Of course not! It was bribery. They hoped to lift the area out of the hands of the IRA and win nationalist support. £84 million was pumped into it by the UK Gov't, the value of which today would be hundreds of millions of quid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7610875/John-DeLorean-drug-smuggler-conned-Government-millions-new-film-reveals.html

    For goodness sake you must have lived under a stone if you think British politics has been clean.

    It has been filthy dirty for donkeys years. Just that Boris is brazen enough to plonk his todger on the table and do it 'en plein air.'

    Welcome to the real world.
  • What we are seeing here is JDS. Just as everything the bad orange man did was worse than anyone else had done ever, so anything The present PM does is a huge leap worse than anyone else has ever done.
    It is, I suspect, a sign of the times and the way those invested in politics including and, probably especially, the media are becoming more and more hostile to their opponents.

    The furore over the knee bending seems part of it. The antifa movement in both the USA and UK is another symptom.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,217
    Andy_JS said:

    "UK is only country among 21 nations where alcohol consumption went up during Covid pandemic, research shows"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9670353/UK-country-21-nations-alcohol-consumption-went-Covid-pandemic.html

    Daily Mail. No link to study. Qualitative poll.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Our Danish contributors have often noted the supposed UK-Danish relationship

    https://external-preview.redd.it/5DnL9h6VDZDrByAXbFKa5kFt7XI-xCV7BF9Gqc7vR6M.png?width=749&auto=webp&s=d3e74b01add48a317c165660a1d848d74d645dac

    Poll of major EU countries about whether the UK is 'an ally that shares our interests and values', 'a necessary partner who we must strategically cooperate with', 'DK', 'a rival' and 'an adversary'.

    Denmark scores with 71% saying that we are an ally or necessary partner. Sweden (76%), Netherlands (68%), Poland (72%), and Portugal (73%) (the UK's oldest ally) also score very highly.

    Just because we've left the EU doesn't mean that we need to turn our back on Europe.

    French - 18%
    Germany 14%

    😂
    Lets put it this way, almost four times as many French people approve of Johnson than consider us an enemy ;)

    The last poll showed that he received 30%+ among all aspects of the Fr political spectrum (3rd highest among all politicians surveyed, wit neither of the two above being Macron & Le Pen).

    A victory for all involved should be making him run, and win the French presidency, while stepping down in the UK.
    I liked this post, but on thinking it over I’m a bit worried at the highly xenophobic implications. I mean, how could anyone hate even the French so much as to wish Johnson on them?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,919

    My point is that it's always been going on. It's just now more open and obvious.

    Arguably that's a good thing.

    I mentioned DeLorean as one tiny example (he wouldn't have liked the word 'tiny' being applied to his tool making). Do you really think that when Jim Callaghan handed over millions of taxpayers' money to a West Belfast suburb that had never made cars that it was done just to help poor people out of a hole? Of course not! It was bribery. They hoped to lift the area out of the hands of the IRA and win nationalist support. £84 million was pumped into it by the UK Gov't, the value of which today would be hundreds of millions of quid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7610875/John-DeLorean-drug-smuggler-conned-Government-millions-new-film-reveals.html

    For goodness sake you must have lived under a stone if you think British politics has been clean.

    It has been filthy dirty for donkeys years. Just that Boris is brazen enough to plonk his todger on the table and do it 'en plein air.'

    Welcome to the real world.

    I really do not see how De Lorean can be called a bribe. A failed investment, perhaps even a foolish one, but not a bribe, and surely its intentions were noble.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    Jonathan said:

    Of the many qualms I have about this tory administration, bribing voters is low down. Why so? Because it has gone on since the dawn of political democracy, in every country including ours.

    I guess additionally that if I ranked the honesty and morality of professions, at the bottom would be bankers and estate agents. And then in a separate table all to themselves, far far beneath, in some infernal dungeon, there would be MPs and politicians.

    In some ways the blatancy of this is to be welcomed. I'd rather see the cash above the table than underneath it.

    Not recently; not here. .
    I'm sorry but that's staggeringly naive.

    I studied politics 40 years ago and corruption was systemic then, as now. Dear old Wilson had his beer and sandwich sessions with the unions (and the unions are some of the most corrupt organisations in the country), Thatcher had the newspaper magnates, which Tony Blair then aped with Murdoch, who gave him free holidays until he started shagging his wife. There have been motorways built and car factories (deLorean who was an utter crook for example), constituencies favoured, duck houses and cash for questions, and honour bribes, and blind eyes turned (Maxwell). I could go on and on and on and on and on.

    Corruption in British politics has been utterly systemic for donkey's years. It's just that when the cash is flaunted above the table rather than underneath it you notice and seem shocked.

    It has been ever thus.
    Nah , Boris is taking it to the next level. This is something new.
    He does seem to be pushing the envelope, though David Cameron has managed to trash his reputation some 4.5 years after leaving office... I do wonder if/when there will be a reckoning and whether it will be on BJ's watch,
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,448

    My point is that it's always been going on. It's just now more open and obvious.

    Arguably that's a good thing.

    I mentioned DeLorean as one tiny example (he wouldn't have liked the word 'tiny' being applied to his tool making). Do you really think that when Jim Callaghan handed over millions of taxpayers' money to a West Belfast suburb that had never made cars that it was done just to help poor people out of a hole? Of course not! It was bribery. They hoped to lift the area out of the hands of the IRA and win nationalist support. £84 million was pumped into it by the UK Gov't, the value of which today would be hundreds of millions of quid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7610875/John-DeLorean-drug-smuggler-conned-Government-millions-new-film-reveals.html

    For goodness sake you must have lived under a stone if you think British politics has been clean.

    It has been filthy dirty for donkeys years. Just that Boris is brazen enough to plonk his todger on the table and do it 'en plein air.'

    Welcome to the real world.

    Surely it's arguable whether 'that sort of thing' can be described as 'bribery'. If an area is poor, economically, surely it makes sense to site a new factory there, and provide useful employment rather than leaving the brighter locals to find more questionable ways of making money.

    Whether, in that particular case, it was a wise, or even informed, decision is a different matter.
  • My point is that it's always been going on. It's just now more open and obvious.

    Arguably that's a good thing.

    I mentioned DeLorean as one tiny example (he wouldn't have liked the word 'tiny' being applied to his tool making). Do you really think that when Jim Callaghan handed over millions of taxpayers' money to a West Belfast suburb that had never made cars that it was done just to help poor people out of a hole? Of course not! It was bribery. They hoped to lift the area out of the hands of the IRA and win nationalist support. £84 million was pumped into it by the UK Gov't, the value of which today would be hundreds of millions of quid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7610875/John-DeLorean-drug-smuggler-conned-Government-millions-new-film-reveals.html

    For goodness sake you must have lived under a stone if you think British politics has been clean.

    It has been filthy dirty for donkeys years. Just that Boris is brazen enough to plonk his todger on the table and do it 'en plein air.'

    Welcome to the real world.

    surely its intentions were noble.
    That's one of the funniest posts in a long time.

    It was an out-and-out bribe to the voters of West Belfast. Nothing noble about it.

    This has been going on for donkeys years. The difference now is that there's far greater scrutiny. Whereas before you could often get away with bungs and backhanders, brown envelopes (Archer anyone?!) and channel money into constituency improvements now things like that tend to get exposed by pesky journalists and annoying internet memes.

    So Boris, following Cummings, is being more blatant about it. He gets away with it because accountability was lost yonks back. The days when serious misdemeanours brought censure and resignation dissipated long before Boris Johnson's premiership.

    I just don't know why anyone is remotely surprised. They can't have studied politics.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,418
    edited June 2021

    My point is that it's always been going on. It's just now more open and obvious.

    Arguably that's a good thing.

    I mentioned DeLorean as one tiny example (he wouldn't have liked the word 'tiny' being applied to his tool making). Do you really think that when Jim Callaghan handed over millions of taxpayers' money to a West Belfast suburb that had never made cars that it was done just to help poor people out of a hole? Of course not! It was bribery. They hoped to lift the area out of the hands of the IRA and win nationalist support. £84 million was pumped into it by the UK Gov't, the value of which today would be hundreds of millions of quid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7610875/John-DeLorean-drug-smuggler-conned-Government-millions-new-film-reveals.html

    For goodness sake you must have lived under a stone if you think British politics has been clean.

    It has been filthy dirty for donkeys years. Just that Boris is brazen enough to plonk his todger on the table and do it 'en plein air.'

    Welcome to the real world.

    Where does the saying, "a change in quantity produces a change in quality,"* come from?

    I think it applies here. Yes, of course, there was corruption in the past, but a change in scale is still significant in itself, and the warping effect on our politics is not a good thing.

    The qualitative change, of a lack of shame about it, is also a bad thing. Where that exists it helps to keep the problem under some degree of control. Now that is gone, then there will be no end to it.

    And this will then have other negative knock-on effects. When people see that only certain favoured groups are being rewarded, it weakens any sense that we are all in this together and so then you will generally see a decline in voluntary compliance with the law generally, with paying tax, with just behaving reasonably so that we can all rub along together without unnecessary aggro.

    Standards matter.

    * Ah, seems to be Hegel.
  • With regards to the ongoing discussion on CRT. Apparently a US battalion commander is under investigation for comments including “If you are white, you are part of the problem”. It is, for those who know about these things, the 1-8 “fighting eagles infantry. His comments do not seem to be being met with unalloyed enthusiasm by this serving under him.
  • My point is that it's always been going on. It's just now more open and obvious.

    Arguably that's a good thing.

    I mentioned DeLorean as one tiny example (he wouldn't have liked the word 'tiny' being applied to his tool making). Do you really think that when Jim Callaghan handed over millions of taxpayers' money to a West Belfast suburb that had never made cars that it was done just to help poor people out of a hole? Of course not! It was bribery. They hoped to lift the area out of the hands of the IRA and win nationalist support. £84 million was pumped into it by the UK Gov't, the value of which today would be hundreds of millions of quid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7610875/John-DeLorean-drug-smuggler-conned-Government-millions-new-film-reveals.html

    For goodness sake you must have lived under a stone if you think British politics has been clean.

    It has been filthy dirty for donkeys years. Just that Boris is brazen enough to plonk his todger on the table and do it 'en plein air.'

    Welcome to the real world.

    Where does the saying, "a change in quantity produces a change in quality,"* come from?

    I think it applies here. Yes, of course, there was corruption in the past, but a change in scale is still significant in itself, and the warping effect on our politics is not a good thing.

    The qualitative change, of a lack of shame about it, is also a bad thing. Where that exists it helps to keep the problem under some degree of control. Now that is gone, then there will be no end to it.

    And this will then have other negative knock-on effects. When people see that only certain favoured groups are being rewarded, it weakens any sense that we are all in this together and so then you will generally see a decline in voluntary compliance with the law generally, with paying tax, with just behaving reasonably so that we can all rub along together without unnecessary aggro.

    Standards matter.

    * Ah, seems to be Hegel.
    If you want to talk about corruption in politics, look to local government. Much worse proportionately.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    On the subject of reopening, what on earth would be the point of reopening schools, allowing full attendance at weddings (and presumably also funerals) and having massive indoor dining, and keeping restrictions like the rule of no more than six in a choir and mask wearing everywhere?

    If that story is correct, it shows no one at all is paying attention to the science. Because there is no way on Earth you can twist data to justify that.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,202

    My point is that it's always been going on. It's just now more open and obvious.

    Arguably that's a good thing.

    I mentioned DeLorean as one tiny example (he wouldn't have liked the word 'tiny' being applied to his tool making). Do you really think that when Jim Callaghan handed over millions of taxpayers' money to a West Belfast suburb that had never made cars that it was done just to help poor people out of a hole? Of course not! It was bribery. They hoped to lift the area out of the hands of the IRA and win nationalist support. £84 million was pumped into it by the UK Gov't, the value of which today would be hundreds of millions of quid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7610875/John-DeLorean-drug-smuggler-conned-Government-millions-new-film-reveals.html

    For goodness sake you must have lived under a stone if you think British politics has been clean.

    It has been filthy dirty for donkeys years. Just that Boris is brazen enough to plonk his todger on the table and do it 'en plein air.'

    Welcome to the real world.

    I really do not see how De Lorean can be called a bribe. A failed investment, perhaps even a foolish one, but not a bribe, and surely its intentions were noble.
    Indeed, given there was not a chance of that part of Belfast returning an no who supported the government, it was the very opposite of a bribe.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,448

    My point is that it's always been going on. It's just now more open and obvious.

    Arguably that's a good thing.

    I mentioned DeLorean as one tiny example (he wouldn't have liked the word 'tiny' being applied to his tool making). Do you really think that when Jim Callaghan handed over millions of taxpayers' money to a West Belfast suburb that had never made cars that it was done just to help poor people out of a hole? Of course not! It was bribery. They hoped to lift the area out of the hands of the IRA and win nationalist support. £84 million was pumped into it by the UK Gov't, the value of which today would be hundreds of millions of quid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7610875/John-DeLorean-drug-smuggler-conned-Government-millions-new-film-reveals.html

    For goodness sake you must have lived under a stone if you think British politics has been clean.

    It has been filthy dirty for donkeys years. Just that Boris is brazen enough to plonk his todger on the table and do it 'en plein air.'

    Welcome to the real world.

    Where does the saying, "a change in quantity produces a change in quality,"* come from?

    I think it applies here. Yes, of course, there was corruption in the past, but a change in scale is still significant in itself, and the warping effect on our politics is not a good thing.

    The qualitative change, of a lack of shame about it, is also a bad thing. Where that exists it helps to keep the problem under some degree of control. Now that is gone, then there will be no end to it.

    And this will then have other negative knock-on effects. When people see that only certain favoured groups are being rewarded, it weakens any sense that we are all in this together and so then you will generally see a decline in voluntary compliance with the law generally, with paying tax, with just behaving reasonably so that we can all rub along together without unnecessary aggro.

    Standards matter.

    * Ah, seems to be Hegel.
    If you want to talk about corruption in politics, look to local government. Much worse proportionately.
    And often the result of one party being in control for a long period.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    @Keir_Starmer has chosen this moment to pledge that a Labour government will introduce gender / sex self-ID. I think he's completely misread the mood of the nation & ignored the legitimate concerns of many women & LGB people. It's unforgivable.

    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1402868379225104384?s=20
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    @Keir_Starmer has chosen this moment to pledge that a Labour government will introduce gender / sex self-ID. I think he's completely misread the mood of the nation & ignored the legitimate concerns of many women & LGB people. It's unforgivable.

    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1402868379225104384?s=20

    Maybe he's retreating into core vote territory, like Hague did, to shore up his tenuous leadership position.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,595

    With regards to the ongoing discussion on CRT. Apparently a US battalion commander is under investigation for comments including “If you are white, you are part of the problem”. It is, for those who know about these things, the 1-8 “fighting eagles infantry. His comments do not seem to be being met with unalloyed enthusiasm by this serving under him.

    That quoted comment from the commander is, for want of a better word, racist.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,919

    My point is that it's always been going on. It's just now more open and obvious.

    Arguably that's a good thing.

    I mentioned DeLorean as one tiny example (he wouldn't have liked the word 'tiny' being applied to his tool making). Do you really think that when Jim Callaghan handed over millions of taxpayers' money to a West Belfast suburb that had never made cars that it was done just to help poor people out of a hole? Of course not! It was bribery. They hoped to lift the area out of the hands of the IRA and win nationalist support. £84 million was pumped into it by the UK Gov't, the value of which today would be hundreds of millions of quid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7610875/John-DeLorean-drug-smuggler-conned-Government-millions-new-film-reveals.html

    For goodness sake you must have lived under a stone if you think British politics has been clean.

    It has been filthy dirty for donkeys years. Just that Boris is brazen enough to plonk his todger on the table and do it 'en plein air.'

    Welcome to the real world.

    surely its intentions were noble.
    That's one of the funniest posts in a long time.

    It was an out-and-out bribe to the voters of West Belfast. Nothing noble about it.

    This has been going on for donkeys years. The difference now is that there's far greater scrutiny. Whereas before you could often get away with bungs and backhanders, brown envelopes (Archer anyone?!) and channel money into constituency improvements now things like that tend to get exposed by pesky journalists and annoying internet memes.

    So Boris, following Cummings, is being more blatant about it. He gets away with it because accountability was lost yonks back. The days when serious misdemeanours brought censure and resignation dissipated long before Boris Johnson's premiership.

    I just don't know why anyone is remotely surprised. They can't have studied politics.
    An out-and-out bribe to vote for a party which did not stand candidates?
  • My point is that it's always been going on. It's just now more open and obvious.

    Arguably that's a good thing.

    I mentioned DeLorean as one tiny example (he wouldn't have liked the word 'tiny' being applied to his tool making). Do you really think that when Jim Callaghan handed over millions of taxpayers' money to a West Belfast suburb that had never made cars that it was done just to help poor people out of a hole? Of course not! It was bribery. They hoped to lift the area out of the hands of the IRA and win nationalist support. £84 million was pumped into it by the UK Gov't, the value of which today would be hundreds of millions of quid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7610875/John-DeLorean-drug-smuggler-conned-Government-millions-new-film-reveals.html

    For goodness sake you must have lived under a stone if you think British politics has been clean.

    It has been filthy dirty for donkeys years. Just that Boris is brazen enough to plonk his todger on the table and do it 'en plein air.'

    Welcome to the real world.

    Where does the saying, "a change in quantity produces a change in quality,"* come from?

    I think it applies here. Yes, of course, there was corruption in the past, but a change in scale is still significant in itself, and the warping effect on our politics is not a good thing.

    The qualitative change, of a lack of shame about it, is also a bad thing. Where that exists it helps to keep the problem under some degree of control. Now that is gone, then there will be no end to it.

    And this will then have other negative knock-on effects. When people see that only certain favoured groups are being rewarded, it weakens any sense that we are all in this together and so then you will generally see a decline in voluntary compliance with the law generally, with paying tax, with just behaving reasonably so that we can all rub along together without unnecessary aggro.

    Standards matter.

    * Ah, seems to be Hegel.
    If you want to talk about corruption in politics, look to local government. Much worse proportionately.
    And often the result of one party being in control for a long period.
    Yes. Definitely. Quite frighteningly blatant in many cases I have seen.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,595
    edited June 2021

    My point is that it's always been going on. It's just now more open and obvious.

    Arguably that's a good thing.

    I mentioned DeLorean as one tiny example (he wouldn't have liked the word 'tiny' being applied to his tool making). Do you really think that when Jim Callaghan handed over millions of taxpayers' money to a West Belfast suburb that had never made cars that it was done just to help poor people out of a hole? Of course not! It was bribery. They hoped to lift the area out of the hands of the IRA and win nationalist support. £84 million was pumped into it by the UK Gov't, the value of which today would be hundreds of millions of quid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7610875/John-DeLorean-drug-smuggler-conned-Government-millions-new-film-reveals.html

    For goodness sake you must have lived under a stone if you think British politics has been clean.

    It has been filthy dirty for donkeys years. Just that Boris is brazen enough to plonk his todger on the table and do it 'en plein air.'

    Welcome to the real world.

    Where does the saying, "a change in quantity produces a change in quality,"* come from?

    I think it applies here. Yes, of course, there was corruption in the past, but a change in scale is still significant in itself, and the warping effect on our politics is not a good thing.

    The qualitative change, of a lack of shame about it, is also a bad thing. Where that exists it helps to keep the problem under some degree of control. Now that is gone, then there will be no end to it.

    And this will then have other negative knock-on effects. When people see that only certain favoured groups are being rewarded, it weakens any sense that we are all in this together and so then you will generally see a decline in voluntary compliance with the law generally, with paying tax, with just behaving reasonably so that we can all rub along together without unnecessary aggro.

    Standards matter.

    * Ah, seems to be Hegel.
    If you want to talk about corruption in politics, look to local government. Much worse proportionately.
    And that's one reason why we should worry about the decline in local journalism. How do we expose local corruption in the absence of nosy local journalists?
    Yes. Local journalism has been hollowed out, by their advertising revenue now going to EBay, Rightmove and Facebook. Even large towns now often have only a handful of paid journalists. There’s also an increasing amount of activism masquerading as journalism, in the space that’s opened up.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,800
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Sandpit, aye. And doubtless he sees himself as an anti-racist.

    It's a cult of bullshit, followed by idiots and indulged by some smart people who should know better.

    A good comment I read a while ago compared this sort of cultural phenomenon to Tolkien's view of evil: it can only taint and destroy, not create.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,919

    @Keir_Starmer has chosen this moment to pledge that a Labour government will introduce gender / sex self-ID. I think he's completely misread the mood of the nation & ignored the legitimate concerns of many women & LGB people. It's unforgivable.

    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1402868379225104384?s=20

    Maybe he's retreating into core vote territory, like Hague did, to shore up his tenuous leadership position.
    Hardly core vote. More like Corbynesque distraction by an issue on which most voters know little and care less.
  • Sandpit said:

    With regards to the ongoing discussion on CRT. Apparently a US battalion commander is under investigation for comments including “If you are white, you are part of the problem”. It is, for those who know about these things, the 1-8 “fighting eagles infantry. His comments do not seem to be being met with unalloyed enthusiasm by this serving under him.

    That quoted comment from the commander is, for want of a better word, racist.
    The same statement made frequently on the internal social media for the soldiers concerned.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    gealbhan said:

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-america-to-give-500-million-pfizer-coronavirus-jabs-to-poorer-countries-12328849

    If Boris follows, how is that any different to what both Greta Funberg and PB poster Gealbhan told him to do?

    We could have shared with Ireland by now, we share a land border with them.

    We offered but they made clear they did want any handouts from the UK
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    @Keir_Starmer has chosen this moment to pledge that a Labour government will introduce gender / sex self-ID. I think he's completely misread the mood of the nation & ignored the legitimate concerns of many women & LGB people. It's unforgivable.

    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1402868379225104384?s=20

    Maybe he's retreating into core vote territory, like Hague did, to shore up his tenuous leadership position.
    Hardly core vote. More like Corbynesque distraction by an issue on which most voters know little and care less.
    Yes, but they prop up the membership and activist base that could otherwise try and hoick him out of office.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,595

    @Keir_Starmer has chosen this moment to pledge that a Labour government will introduce gender / sex self-ID. I think he's completely misread the mood of the nation & ignored the legitimate concerns of many women & LGB people. It's unforgivable.

    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1402868379225104384?s=20

    That’s not how you win back the Red Wall, Sir Keir...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,919
    ydoethur said:

    Anyone else having weird problems with the site not quoting and randomly signing them out?

    Seems OK here. I'm no expert but it sounds like the sort of problem you'd get from stale cached data. Try clearing your browser cache, and perhaps the vanillaforums and politicalbetting cookies as well if you know how to do that.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Our Danish contributors have often noted the supposed UK-Danish relationship

    https://external-preview.redd.it/5DnL9h6VDZDrByAXbFKa5kFt7XI-xCV7BF9Gqc7vR6M.png?width=749&auto=webp&s=d3e74b01add48a317c165660a1d848d74d645dac

    Poll of major EU countries about whether the UK is 'an ally that shares our interests and values', 'a necessary partner who we must strategically cooperate with', 'DK', 'a rival' and 'an adversary'.

    Denmark scores with 71% saying that we are an ally or necessary partner. Sweden (76%), Netherlands (68%), Poland (72%), and Portugal (73%) (the UK's oldest ally) also score very highly.

    Just because we've left the EU doesn't mean that we need to turn our back on Europe.

    French - 18%
    Germany 14%

    😂
    Lets put it this way, almost four times as many French people approve of Johnson than consider us an enemy ;)

    The last poll showed that he received 30%+ among all aspects of the Fr political spectrum (3rd highest among all politicians surveyed, wit neither of the two above being Macron & Le Pen).

    A victory for all involved should be making him run, and win the French presidency, while stepping down in the UK.
    May be that’s why they approve of him… because they are our enemies?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,217
    Charles said:

    gealbhan said:

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-america-to-give-500-million-pfizer-coronavirus-jabs-to-poorer-countries-12328849

    If Boris follows, how is that any different to what both Greta Funberg and PB poster Gealbhan told him to do?

    We could have shared with Ireland by now, we share a land border with them.

    We offered but they made clear they did want any handouts from the UK
    Was that official?

    I only saw one leaked-to-the-press report in a newspaper, that immediately vanished.

    Eurogoon twitter was awash with allegations that it was UK Govt dishonestly playing silly buggers as no supply existed anyway ie the usual stuff.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    Not sure if this story has been covered already: https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1402743853682249728

    In short an example of an apartment building under 18m. Government insists the building owner must pay the £1m to make safe, owner says £100k each please leaseholders. Three times the government have whipped its MPs to vote down amendments which would make law what it says should happen - that owners pay.

    Why is this? The donations from property developers of course have nothing to do with it... As "leftie propogandists" like Sir Peter Bottomley point out "...these people cannot pay...so the government needs to face up to their responsibilities, bail out these people and then government can make arrangements to chase those responsible."

    Openly corrupt. Morally questionable. Politically inept. Its no wonder the Blue Labour Cult is so popular - people like clowns
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,595

    @Keir_Starmer has chosen this moment to pledge that a Labour government will introduce gender / sex self-ID. I think he's completely misread the mood of the nation & ignored the legitimate concerns of many women & LGB people. It's unforgivable.

    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1402868379225104384?s=20

    Maybe he's retreating into core vote territory, like Hague did, to shore up his tenuous leadership position.
    If you were to draw up a list of the top ten things the Labour leader should be thinking about it wouldn't even cross your mind to put it on there.

    There are therefore two possible conclusions.

    (1) Starmer has built such a capable team to support him that they are able to cover lots of ground, and make decisions beyond their core priorities.

    (2) Starmer is stuck in the mire of internal Labour party politics, and so his priorities are those of internal Labour party politics, and so it is imperative that he has a position on an issue like self-ID.
    Yup! He’s seemingly more concerned with a few thousand Corbynites threatening to vote Green, than the few million Conservative voters he need to win back if he wants to be PM.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,707
    Dura_Ace said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I googled uk nato special relationship and couldnt find relevant story
    #

    The US think they can push us around and treat us like shit and we'll always be there to support them in their endless, stupid and pointless wars... well it's time to say no!

    Boris has made a good but it's time to go further... They treat us with the respect we deserve as the only NATO member that always supports them in whatever stupid policy they have... Or we're done!
    Could you please tell us, precisely what you are talking about?
    US: We're going to go to war with Afghanistan (for no reason other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooooo....!!!!!!!

    The Germans (through the NATO ISAF) and French (through Ops Pamir and Herakles) were heavily involved in Afghanistan. The CdG battle group was also in the Indian Ocean contributing tacair for most of the 2001/2 winter.

    The French stepped in the shit in the Uzbin Valley but, in stark contrast to certain other allied forces, did demonstrate a capacity to learn and change. They very sensibly stopped having anything to do with the ANA or any other Afghan forces which stopped intel leaks and Green-on-Blue incidents.
    The French and Belgians are also very active against Islamists in the Sahel.

    Personally, I think that NATO is a cold war relic, and long overdue for disbanding.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,707


    "When the first list of towns[1] was announced, 39 out of the 45 were in constituencies with a Tory MP. "

    Does this sound unreasonable? There are 166 more Tory MPs than Labour ones. The main Labour strongholds are inner cities & leafy University towns & London & the South Wales Valleys.

    I'd expect a list of crap English towns to be overwhelmingly represented by Tory MPs.

    -------

    Also, it seems to me vastly more healthy that voters should expect something from the MPs, even if it is derided as 'pork barrel politics'.

    This is far better than the situation that pertains in South Wales, where the voters of Ebbw Vale or Merthyr Tydfil loyally return Labour MP by stonking majority, election after election. The voters are still as poor as they have ever been.

    Nothing good ever happens if you live in a safe seat. That is the rules of the game.

    There should be no safe seats.

    My own will be safer still after the boundary review. Real job for life for some parachuted in drone.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Sandpit said:

    With regards to the ongoing discussion on CRT. Apparently a US battalion commander is under investigation for comments including “If you are white, you are part of the problem”. It is, for those who know about these things, the 1-8 “fighting eagles infantry. His comments do not seem to be being met with unalloyed enthusiasm by this serving under him.

    That quoted comment from the commander is, for want of a better word, racist.
    Another case of 'they are exactly what they accuse you of'.

    I've generally switched off from all this (by logging out of twitter) but some things you can't help notice, like the Yale psychiatrist who admitted to fantasies about shooting white people in a public university seminar. Maybe she should get together with the battalion commander cited above.

    All normal. Just people getting on with their jobs. Nothing at all to see here. Or - if you are Philip Thompson - it is the rebirth of Western Civilisation!


  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Of the many qualms I have about this tory administration, bribing voters is low down. Why so? Because it has gone on since the dawn of political democracy, in every country including ours.

    I guess additionally that if I ranked the honesty and morality of professions, at the bottom would be bankers and estate agents. And then in a separate table all to themselves, far far beneath, in some infernal dungeon, there would be MPs and politicians.

    In some ways the blatancy of this is to be welcomed. I'd rather see the cash above the table than underneath it.

    Not recently; not here. .
    I'm sorry but that's staggeringly naive.

    I studied politics 40 years ago and corruption was systemic then, as now. Dear old Wilson had his beer and sandwich sessions with the unions (and the unions are some of the most corrupt organisations in the country), Thatcher had the newspaper magnates, which Tony Blair then aped with Murdoch, who gave him free holidays until he started shagging his wife. There have been motorways built and car factories (deLorean who was an utter crook for example), constituencies favoured, duck houses and cash for questions, and honour bribes, and blind eyes turned (Maxwell). I could go on and on and on and on and on.

    Corruption in British politics has been utterly systemic for donkey's years. It's just that when the cash is flaunted above the table rather than underneath it you notice and seem shocked.

    It has been ever thus.
    Well, yes, if all those things are corrupt then corruption is endemic but it seems to me you are comparing apples to oranges. Beer and sandwiches dates from when governments would seek to end strikes, which ended under Mrs Thatcher, and which also involved negotiation with management. Partisan newspapers may be deplorable (or a fine illustration of the power of a free press) but again this is not the same thing. Government investment in marginal constituencies was a running gag in Yes, Minister but what we now see is systematic abuse.
    If we're quoting Yes, Minister then surely this is an example of an irregular verb?

    I am aiming help at towns that need it.
    You are investing in marginal constituencies.
    He is corruptly engaged in systematic abuse.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,201
    Seven brides for @Anabobazina brothers

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    Police cars revolving lightPolice cars revolving light | NEW: Unlimited numbers of people WILL be allowed at weddings from June 21
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,100

    @Keir_Starmer has chosen this moment to pledge that a Labour government will introduce gender / sex self-ID. I think he's completely misread the mood of the nation & ignored the legitimate concerns of many women & LGB people. It's unforgivable.

    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1402868379225104384?s=20

    Maybe he's retreating into core vote territory, like Hague did, to shore up his tenuous leadership position.
    If you were to draw up a list of the top ten things the Labour leader should be thinking about it wouldn't even cross your mind to put it on there.

    There are therefore two possible conclusions.

    (1) Starmer has built such a capable team to support him that they are able to cover lots of ground, and make decisions beyond their core priorities.

    (2) Starmer is stuck in the mire of internal Labour party politics, and so his priorities are those of internal Labour party politics, and so it is imperative that he has a position on an issue like self-ID.
    Good morning

    The question for Labour is simply do they want to be relevant (which is essential for our democracy) or are they moving to the margins of relevance with all the political ramifications that would involve

    I just cannot understand how Starmer cannot see by taking the knee, backing a controversial issue few understand, and even remaining silent over Ollie Robinson, is politically naive

    He seems a prisoner in a prison he cannot escape
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,418
    Sandpit said:

    @Keir_Starmer has chosen this moment to pledge that a Labour government will introduce gender / sex self-ID. I think he's completely misread the mood of the nation & ignored the legitimate concerns of many women & LGB people. It's unforgivable.

    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1402868379225104384?s=20

    Maybe he's retreating into core vote territory, like Hague did, to shore up his tenuous leadership position.
    If you were to draw up a list of the top ten things the Labour leader should be thinking about it wouldn't even cross your mind to put it on there.

    There are therefore two possible conclusions.

    (1) Starmer has built such a capable team to support him that they are able to cover lots of ground, and make decisions beyond their core priorities.

    (2) Starmer is stuck in the mire of internal Labour party politics, and so his priorities are those of internal Labour party politics, and so it is imperative that he has a position on an issue like self-ID.
    Yup! He’s seemingly more concerned with a few thousand Corbynites threatening to vote Green, than the few million Conservative voters he need to win back if he wants to be PM.
    I think it's less about voters at elections, then it is about internal Labour party interest groups that might coalesce around a replacement leader.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000
    Which unbelievably stupid prick said this? (From this morning’s excellent Politico London Playbook by @e_casalicchio) https://twitter.com/MarinaHyde/status/1402878709112127495/photo/1
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,217

    @Keir_Starmer has chosen this moment to pledge that a Labour government will introduce gender / sex self-ID. I think he's completely misread the mood of the nation & ignored the legitimate concerns of many women & LGB people. It's unforgivable.

    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1402868379225104384?s=20

    Maybe he's retreating into core vote territory, like Hague did, to shore up his tenuous leadership position.
    Is that core vote territory, though?

    If he loses most of Mumsnet but keeps most of Stonewall, what is the balance?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MattW said:

    Charles said:

    gealbhan said:

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-america-to-give-500-million-pfizer-coronavirus-jabs-to-poorer-countries-12328849

    If Boris follows, how is that any different to what both Greta Funberg and PB poster Gealbhan told him to do?

    We could have shared with Ireland by now, we share a land border with them.

    We offered but they made clear they did want any handouts from the UK
    Was that official?

    I only saw one leaked-to-the-press report in a newspaper, that immediately vanished.

    Eurogoon twitter was awash with allegations that it was UK Govt dishonestly playing silly buggers as no supply existed anyway ie the usual stuff.
    Behind the scenes. Coveney saw it as an attempt to split the RoI away from the EU & didn’t want charity from the UK
  • Scott_xP said:

    Which unbelievably stupid prick said this? (From this morning’s excellent Politico London Playbook by @e_casalicchio) https://twitter.com/MarinaHyde/status/1402878709112127495/photo/1

    And another example of journalists being more like political activists
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,707
    MattW said:

    @Keir_Starmer has chosen this moment to pledge that a Labour government will introduce gender / sex self-ID. I think he's completely misread the mood of the nation & ignored the legitimate concerns of many women & LGB people. It's unforgivable.

    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1402868379225104384?s=20

    Maybe he's retreating into core vote territory, like Hague did, to shore up his tenuous leadership position.
    Is that core vote territory, though?

    If he loses most of Mumsnet but keeps most of Stonewall, what is the balance?
    I don't think that he is doing it for electoral advantage, more that he sees it as the only viable legal way forward for Trans. Indeed wasn't it government policy until fairly recently, only dropped last year?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    On that Times front page:

    Very strong words, in private - what @10DowningStreet wanted. Suspect Biden might be more even-handed in public between U.K. & EU. Biden also being positive on US-U.K. relationship. We’ll see. No joint press conference expected after today’s talks

    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1402879017364201472?s=20
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,595
    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    With regards to the ongoing discussion on CRT. Apparently a US battalion commander is under investigation for comments including “If you are white, you are part of the problem”. It is, for those who know about these things, the 1-8 “fighting eagles infantry. His comments do not seem to be being met with unalloyed enthusiasm by this serving under him.

    That quoted comment from the commander is, for want of a better word, racist.
    Another case of 'they are exactly what they accuse you of'.

    I've generally switched off from all this (by logging out of twitter) but some things you can't help notice, like the Yale psychiatrist who admitted to fantasies about shooting white people in a public university seminar. Maybe she should get together with the battalion commander cited above.

    All normal. Just people getting on with their jobs. Nothing at all to see here. Or - if you are Philip Thompson - it is the rebirth of Western Civilisation!
    There was a good piece in an Australian magazine the other day, which argues well the point that a lot of the problems in Western society are much more about class than race.

    https://meanjin.com.au/essays/in-defence-of-the-bad-white-working-class/
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902

    @Keir_Starmer has chosen this moment to pledge that a Labour government will introduce gender / sex self-ID. I think he's completely misread the mood of the nation & ignored the legitimate concerns of many women & LGB people. It's unforgivable.

    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1402868379225104384?s=20

    Maybe he's retreating into core vote territory, like Hague did, to shore up his tenuous leadership position.
    If you were to draw up a list of the top ten things the Labour leader should be thinking about it wouldn't even cross your mind to put it on there.

    There are therefore two possible conclusions.

    (1) Starmer has built such a capable team to support him that they are able to cover lots of ground, and make decisions beyond their core priorities.

    (2) Starmer is stuck in the mire of internal Labour party politics, and so his priorities are those of internal Labour party politics, and so it is imperative that he has a position on an issue like self-ID.
    Or

    (3) Starmer, though a capable barrister, is not actually very good at politics.
    Its this. No political antennae. No gut feel for what or how people think. Yes he is moral, learned, considered. But crap at politics. The direct opposite of Johnson.

    The problem for Labour is that they could put anyone into the job and they would lose 30-40% of their effectiveness having to drag round the dead weight of a hard left still determined to be in self-righteous opposition forever.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    @Keir_Starmer has chosen this moment to pledge that a Labour government will introduce gender / sex self-ID. I think he's completely misread the mood of the nation & ignored the legitimate concerns of many women & LGB people. It's unforgivable.

    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1402868379225104384?s=20

    Maybe he's retreating into core vote territory, like Hague did, to shore up his tenuous leadership position.
    Is that core vote territory, though?

    If he loses most of Mumsnet but keeps most of Stonewall, what is the balance?
    I don't think that he is doing it for electoral advantage, more that he sees it as the only viable legal way forward for Trans. Indeed wasn't it government policy until fairly recently, only dropped last year?
    Somehow I don't think that Keir Starmer - as leader of the labour party going through troubled times - is in any position to take a completely objective and apolitical view of this issue.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    My point is that it's always been going on. It's just now more open and obvious.

    Arguably that's a good thing.

    I mentioned DeLorean as one tiny example (he wouldn't have liked the word 'tiny' being applied to his tool making). Do you really think that when Jim Callaghan handed over millions of taxpayers' money to a West Belfast suburb that had never made cars that it was done just to help poor people out of a hole? Of course not! It was bribery. They hoped to lift the area out of the hands of the IRA and win nationalist support. £84 million was pumped into it by the UK Gov't, the value of which today would be hundreds of millions of quid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7610875/John-DeLorean-drug-smuggler-conned-Government-millions-new-film-reveals.html

    For goodness sake you must have lived under a stone if you think British politics has been clean.

    It has been filthy dirty for donkeys years. Just that Boris is brazen enough to plonk his todger on the table and do it 'en plein air.'

    Welcome to the real world.

    I really do not see how De Lorean can be called a bribe. A failed investment, perhaps even a foolish one, but not a bribe, and surely its intentions were noble.
    There is a thing now with Public Sector projects that the contractor carrying out the work must make a contribution for "Social Value" and this will make up 10% of the award decision. Now you may think Social Value would be to employ local people, clean up an area, help a local charity etc and if you read the Government guidance on Social Value that is exactly what it says. However if you want to get the full 10% mark then you have to provide something free to the Public Sector body, such as IT equipment or the like. The higher the value of the "Social Value" donation the higher mark you get. If you state that 4 of your guys are going to volunteer for a weekend to help a local charity you get a very low score, if you say that you are going to provide £10,000 of IT equipment you get a high score.

    it just legalised bribary to win a contract.
  • I see Noel Gallagher is giving the Prince across the water the kicking he so rightly deserves.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Scott_xP said:

    Which unbelievably stupid prick said this? (From this morning’s excellent Politico London Playbook by @e_casalicchio) https://twitter.com/MarinaHyde/status/1402878709112127495/photo/1

    And another example of journalists being more like political activists
    And there is zero evidence that the conversation ever happened
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677



    I mentioned DeLorean as one tiny example (he wouldn't have liked the word 'tiny' being applied to his tool making). Do you really think that when Jim Callaghan handed over millions of taxpayers' money to a West Belfast suburb that had never made cars that it was done just to help poor people out of a hole? Of course not! It was bribery. They hoped to lift the area out of the hands of the IRA and win nationalist support. £84 million was pumped into it by the UK Gov't, the value of which today would be hundreds of millions of quid.

    They are at it again. The job of designing and building the UK's new uncrewed combat aircraft has been given to Spirit in Belfast on the basis that they used to make bits for Bombardier's business jets.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,595

    Sandpit said:

    @Keir_Starmer has chosen this moment to pledge that a Labour government will introduce gender / sex self-ID. I think he's completely misread the mood of the nation & ignored the legitimate concerns of many women & LGB people. It's unforgivable.

    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1402868379225104384?s=20

    Maybe he's retreating into core vote territory, like Hague did, to shore up his tenuous leadership position.
    If you were to draw up a list of the top ten things the Labour leader should be thinking about it wouldn't even cross your mind to put it on there.

    There are therefore two possible conclusions.

    (1) Starmer has built such a capable team to support him that they are able to cover lots of ground, and make decisions beyond their core priorities.

    (2) Starmer is stuck in the mire of internal Labour party politics, and so his priorities are those of internal Labour party politics, and so it is imperative that he has a position on an issue like self-ID.
    Yup! He’s seemingly more concerned with a few thousand Corbynites threatening to vote Green, than the few million Conservative voters he need to win back if he wants to be PM.
    I think it's less about voters at elections, then it is about internal Labour party interest groups that might coalesce around a replacement leader.
    Oh quite possibly, but he needs to stay above the fray. The only person who genuinely looks like they could be a leader at the moment is Burnham, and he’s not an MP.

    What he needs to be putting all his efforts towards, is identifying the first 60 or 70 seats he needs to win at the next election, and piling resources into them now. Pretty much anything else is a waste of his time. Oh, and start with Batley and Spen. Oh, and no more unnecessary by-elections, okay?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,707
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I googled uk nato special relationship and couldnt find relevant story
    #

    The US think they can push us around and treat us like shit and we'll always be there to support them in their endless, stupid and pointless wars... well it's time to say no!

    Boris has made a good but it's time to go further... They treat us with the respect we deserve as the only NATO member that always supports them in whatever stupid policy they have... Or we're done!
    Could you please tell us, precisely what you are talking about?
    US: We're going to go to war with Afghanistan (for no reason other than we want to bomb the crap out of someone)

    France: Hmmmmmmmm....

    Germany: Hmmmmmmmm....

    UK: Lets Gooooooooooooo....!!!!!!!

    The Germans (through the NATO ISAF) and French (through Ops Pamir and Herakles) were heavily involved in Afghanistan. The CdG battle group was also in the Indian Ocean contributing tacair for most of the 2001/2 winter.

    The French stepped in the shit in the Uzbin Valley but, in stark contrast to certain other allied forces, did demonstrate a capacity to learn and change. They very sensibly stopped having anything to do with the ANA or any other Afghan forces which stopped intel leaks and Green-on-Blue incidents.
    The French and Belgians are also very active against Islamists in the Sahel.

    Personally, I think that NATO is a cold war relic, and long overdue for disbanding.
    You want to help Putin that much?
    Ideally it should have been disbanded around 1990.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,827
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    @Keir_Starmer has chosen this moment to pledge that a Labour government will introduce gender / sex self-ID. I think he's completely misread the mood of the nation & ignored the legitimate concerns of many women & LGB people. It's unforgivable.

    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1402868379225104384?s=20

    Maybe he's retreating into core vote territory, like Hague did, to shore up his tenuous leadership position.
    Is that core vote territory, though?

    If he loses most of Mumsnet but keeps most of Stonewall, what is the balance?
    I don't think that he is doing it for electoral advantage, more that he sees it as the only viable legal way forward for Trans. Indeed wasn't it government policy until fairly recently, only dropped last year?
    Has he actually chosen this moment to pledge anything new? Or has some random twitterati just posted he has.......

    My 1 min google suggests that is an existing pledge but no new announcements or emphasis made.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,919
    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Which unbelievably stupid prick said this? (From this morning’s excellent Politico London Playbook by @e_casalicchio) https://twitter.com/MarinaHyde/status/1402878709112127495/photo/1

    And another example of journalists being more like political activists
    And there is zero evidence that the conversation ever happened
    The conversation being reported is evidence that it happened. If you mean there is no proof, you might be right although there could be a recording.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,707
    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    With regards to the ongoing discussion on CRT. Apparently a US battalion commander is under investigation for comments including “If you are white, you are part of the problem”. It is, for those who know about these things, the 1-8 “fighting eagles infantry. His comments do not seem to be being met with unalloyed enthusiasm by this serving under him.

    That quoted comment from the commander is, for want of a better word, racist.
    Another case of 'they are exactly what they accuse you of'.

    I've generally switched off from all this (by logging out of twitter) but some things you can't help notice, like the Yale psychiatrist who admitted to fantasies about shooting white people in a public university seminar. Maybe she should get together with the battalion commander cited above.

    All normal. Just people getting on with their jobs. Nothing at all to see here. Or - if you are Philip Thompson - it is the rebirth of Western Civilisation!
    There was a good piece in an Australian magazine the other day, which argues well the point that a lot of the problems in Western society are much more about class than race.

    https://meanjin.com.au/essays/in-defence-of-the-bad-white-working-class/
    That was a large part of the recent derided government race enquiry, whose conclusions are being ignored.

    I would agree that class is a bigger issue than race, but they do heavily interest.
This discussion has been closed.