In the Sixties flagrant racism was quite common. We have all moved on quite a bit from then, the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there.
Yet currently.
Documents also shed light on Queen’s ongoing exemption from race and sex discrimination laws
This is a big stretch. The obvious reason why the monarchy seeks exemption, or at least clarification of many of these laws, is that many of their key positions are filled literally on the basis of birthright.
If the Govt makes a law requiring eg. 50% of senior management to be filled by women, or 25% by ethnic minorities etc then clearly that is a problem if it applies to the monarchy.
In the Sixties flagrant racism was quite common. We have all moved on quite a bit from then, the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there.
The Queen courted controversy by choosing to dance with the new president of Ghana in 1961, and went in to battle with her own government on behalf of the Commonwealth in the 1980s over apartheid:
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
If that's true then we're in this until 2022. I think it's time to leave the country, freedom just won't exist here in any meaningful sense because the government has been captured by the doom mongering scientists who want to keep everyone locked up forever.
It is more that the scientists have been captured by the incompetent government. If Delta had not been so widely seeded so early then we would not be in this mess. The percentage change in reported weekly cases keeps going up, every day. It’s at just over 60% at the moment. If it simply stops at that figure then this time next month we will be at 40,000 cases per day - roughly where we were at Christmas. If it keeps going up then we will be there, and beyond, a lot quicker. That’s further lockdown territory. All because Johnson didn’t want to upset Modi to get a trade deal.
It’s not “doom mongering scientists” who will be at fault if that happens. It will be Johnson’s determination to go to Delhi long after it was clear that was not possible. Hopefully it won’t and the hopeful trajectory of Bolton will be followed but if it does then don’t blame the scientists, Blame Johnson.
But how is the question - this is the Indian variant tearing through the young (who are unaffected) and the antivaxxers (and who gives a toss if they die). Those numbers are stupid, to say the least.
The young are not “unaffected”. Their mortality rates are lower, I grant you that, but they will still be hospitalised in great numbers and given the increased transmissibility of Delta and the fact we are largely opened up again (the state of affairs today is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a lockdown) more young people will need hospitalisation, as well as the remaining older parts of the population, meaning we are back to square one.
I don’t like it, I don’t like saying it, I hope I’m wrong, but the trend line has to start bending down again very very soon for us to escape serious problems.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
In the Sixties flagrant racism was quite common. We have all moved on quite a bit from then, the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there.
Yet currently.
Documents also shed light on Queen’s ongoing exemption from race and sex discrimination laws
This is a big stretch. The obvious reason why the monarchy seeks exemption, or at least clarification of many of these laws, is that many of their key positions are filled literally on the basis of birthright.
If the Govt makes a law requiring eg. 50% of senior management to be filled by women, or 25% by ethnic minorities etc then clearly that is a problem if it applies to the monarchy.
When you couple it with the non hiring of darkies then you can spot a pattern.
In the Sixties flagrant racism was quite common. We have all moved on quite a bit from then, the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there.
Yet currently.
Documents also shed light on Queen’s ongoing exemption from race and sex discrimination laws
You've been dangerously off-form recently.
I don't know if this is work or tiredness getting to you but maybe you need a break?
They are quite happy to invest within our guidelines, including no fossil fuels. We don't micromanage them, just review the portfolio every now and then. The returns have been pretty good for the last couple of years.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Actually you should. Because, if this turns out to be even halfway true, the next question you might want to ask yourself is "what else have they been doing?"
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
Whether it leaked from the lab or naturally occurred, what difference is it going to make?
It might be interesting to know but practically it doesn't make a difference.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
Whether it leaked from the lab or naturally occurred, what difference is it going to make?
If that's true then we're in this until 2022. I think it's time to leave the country, freedom just won't exist here in any meaningful sense because the government has been captured by the doom mongering scientists who want to keep everyone locked up forever.
It is more that the scientists have been captured by the incompetent government. If Delta had not been so widely seeded so early then we would not be in this mess. The percentage change in reported weekly cases keeps going up, every day. It’s at just over 60% at the moment. If it simply stops at that figure then this time next month we will be at 40,000 cases per day - roughly where we were at Christmas. If it keeps going up then we will be there, and beyond, a lot quicker. That’s further lockdown territory. All because Johnson didn’t want to upset Modi to get a trade deal.
It’s not “doom mongering scientists” who will be at fault if that happens. It will be Johnson’s determination to go to Delhi long after it was clear that was not possible. Hopefully it won’t and the hopeful trajectory of Bolton will be followed but if it does then don’t blame the scientists, Blame Johnson.
It's not going to just stop at 60%. That figure is based on cases by report date and is heavily impacted by bank holiday effects.
Look at the actual number of cases by specimen date - rock solid at 5k since Tuesday last week for England. The original hotspots already plateaued or falling. It won't reach 40k a day unless a place like Bedford was on the way to reaching half it's Jan peak, rather than already falling. Your 'analysis' is frankly hysterical.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
Whether it leaked from the lab or naturally occurred, what difference is it going to make?
FFFS
@Gallowgate is right though isn't he ? China is both an unconsciable state, and also far too massive globally to ignore. I mean look at what's going on with the Uighurs, Tibet, Taiwan.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Actually you should. Because, if this turns out to be even halfway true, the next question you might want to ask yourself is "what else have they been doing?"
So what? We all know China most likely has stocks of all manner of awful bio and chemical weapons of mass destruction. What are we going to do about it? Nothing. What can we do about it? Nothing.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
No point @Leon even though you are right. The fact is this would potentially exonerate Trump. Given that, very few people here will have very little interest in acknowledging it.
This may be the wrong audience but can ANYONE on this thread explain why the government might be considering extending restrictions beyond July 21.
The data is simply meh, and even if our vaccination is slightly delayed, there’s no evidence the NHS is under stress.
Because they are shithouses?
Yeh I mean I knew that, but is there any logic. Are cases really rising (60% per week) and if so, does it matter if hospitalisations are declining and deaths statistically insignificant?
If that's true then we're in this until 2022. I think it's time to leave the country, freedom just won't exist here in any meaningful sense because the government has been captured by the doom mongering scientists who want to keep everyone locked up forever.
It is more that the scientists have been captured by the incompetent government. If Delta had not been so widely seeded so early then we would not be in this mess. The percentage change in reported weekly cases keeps going up, every day. It’s at just over 60% at the moment. If it simply stops at that figure then this time next month we will be at 40,000 cases per day - roughly where we were at Christmas. If it keeps going up then we will be there, and beyond, a lot quicker. That’s further lockdown territory. All because Johnson didn’t want to upset Modi to get a trade deal.
It’s not “doom mongering scientists” who will be at fault if that happens. It will be Johnson’s determination to go to Delhi long after it was clear that was not possible. Hopefully it won’t and the hopeful trajectory of Bolton will be followed but if it does then don’t blame the scientists, Blame Johnson.
But how is the question - this is the Indian variant tearing through the young (who are unaffected) and the antivaxxers (and who gives a toss if they die). Those numbers are stupid, to say the least.
The change in case numbers is only useful information if the conditions that lead a person to be tested are unchanged. Are they? I'd rather look at changes in hospitalisation or fatality numbers.
In the Sixties flagrant racism was quite common. We have all moved on quite a bit from then, the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there.
Yet currently.
Documents also shed light on Queen’s ongoing exemption from race and sex discrimination laws
You've been dangerously off-form recently.
I don't know if this is work or tiredness getting to you but maybe you need a break?
I had a magnificent three day break last weekend.
I have an even more brilliant long weekend planned in Blackpool next weekend.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
Whether it leaked from the lab or naturally occurred, what difference is it going to make?
FFFS
@Gallowgate is right though isn't he ? China is both an unconsciable state, and also far too massive globally to ignore. I mean look at what's going on with the Uighurs, Tibet, Taiwan.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Actually you should. Because, if this turns out to be even halfway true, the next question you might want to ask yourself is "what else have they been doing?"
So what? We all know China most likely has stocks of all manner of awful bio and chemical weapons of mass destruction. What are we going to do about it? Nothing. What can we do about it? Nothing.
If that is the attitude, then fine.
Presumably, if China invades Taiwan or indeed SE Asia, then we should just throw our hands up and say "we can't do anything".
I think there was a similar attitude to a certain European country in the 1930s....
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
No point @Leon even though you are right. The fact is this would potentially exonerate Trump. Given that, very few people here will have very little interest in acknowledging it.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
Whether it leaked from the lab or naturally occurred, what difference is it going to make?
FFFS
@Gallowgate is right though isn't he ? China is both an unconsciable state, and also far too massive globally to ignore. I mean look at what's going on with the Uighurs, Tibet, Taiwan.
Even if we can't do anything serious inside China, we can stop this "gain of function" research worldwide, we must prosecute those involved in the cover-up, we can deeply scrutinise and rethink all our scientific links with Beijing, and we can learn a thousand lessons about the wrongness of censorship of mere opinions - eg Facebook banning any mention of the lab leak hypothesis for a year
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Actually you should. Because, if this turns out to be even halfway true, the next question you might want to ask yourself is "what else have they been doing?"
So what? We all know China most likely has stocks of all manner of awful bio and chemical weapons of mass destruction. What are we going to do about it? Nothing. What can we do about it? Nothing.
Personally, I would be keen to see their wet markets shut down. I don't think that we can ever know the truth because there is no objectivity in any investigation.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Actually you should. Because, if this turns out to be even halfway true, the next question you might want to ask yourself is "what else have they been doing?"
So what? We all know China most likely has stocks of all manner of awful bio and chemical weapons of mass destruction. What are we going to do about it? Nothing. What can we do about it? Nothing.
If that is the attitude, then fine.
Presumably, if China invades Taiwan or indeed SE Asia, then we should just throw our hands up and say "we can't do anything".
I think there was a similar attitude to a certain European country in the 1930s....
If that's true then we're in this until 2022. I think it's time to leave the country, freedom just won't exist here in any meaningful sense because the government has been captured by the doom mongering scientists who want to keep everyone locked up forever.
It is more that the scientists have been captured by the incompetent government. If Delta had not been so widely seeded so early then we would not be in this mess. The percentage change in reported weekly cases keeps going up, every day. It’s at just over 60% at the moment. If it simply stops at that figure then this time next month we will be at 40,000 cases per day - roughly where we were at Christmas. If it keeps going up then we will be there, and beyond, a lot quicker. That’s further lockdown territory. All because Johnson didn’t want to upset Modi to get a trade deal.
It’s not “doom mongering scientists” who will be at fault if that happens. It will be Johnson’s determination to go to Delhi long after it was clear that was not possible. Hopefully it won’t and the hopeful trajectory of Bolton will be followed but if it does then don’t blame the scientists, Blame Johnson.
But how is the question - this is the Indian variant tearing through the young (who are unaffected) and the antivaxxers (and who gives a toss if they die). Those numbers are stupid, to say the least.
The young are not “unaffected”. Their mortality rates are lower, I grant you that, but they will still be hospitalised in great numbers and given the increased transmissibility of Delta and the fact we are largely opened up again (the state of affairs today is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a lockdown) more young people will need hospitalisation, as well as the remaining older parts of the population, meaning we are back to square one.
I don’t like it, I don’t like saying it, I hope I’m wrong, but the trend line has to start bending down again very very soon for us to escape serious problems.
What's the rate of young people being affected? Out of 100 odd people I know who have had it my age, the worst experience I've heard of is a week long flu, and severely curtailing our freedoms for another summer is far worse than the risk of being a bit fluey for a day or two.
Read that article on Lab Theory. It's absolutely compelling. I've always had it down as plausible but from that I'd put it down as highly probable now. It's much, much more likely that a poorly secured lab researching SARS like viruses was the source of this than a wet market.
The shut down of their database server in September 2019 feels like the biggest tell. I suspect it leaked in September 2019 and then it took a couple of months to seed into the general population. That's an admission of guilt.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
No point @Leon even though you are right. The fact is this would potentially exonerate Trump. Given that, very few people here will have very little interest in acknowledging it.
LOL.
It won't exonerate Trump, he screwed up the response to Covid-19 which explains all those deaths in America.
Lab leak or natural coronavirus doesn't change his response.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
No point @Leon even though you are right. The fact is this would potentially exonerate Trump. Given that, very few people here will have very little interest in acknowledging it.
"exonerate Trump"
Well, on this it would A fair few people on here were mocking DJT for pushing the leaked lab theory. Doesn't look so stupid now does it....*
* not that we will get any recognition from anyone who was mocking it that they might have been wrong
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
Whether it leaked from the lab or naturally occurred, what difference is it going to make?
FFFS
@Gallowgate is right though isn't he ? China is both an unconsciable state, and also far too massive globally to ignore. I mean look at what's going on with the Uighurs, Tibet, Taiwan.
Even if we can't do anything serious inside China, we can stop this "gain of function" research worldwide, we must prosecute those involved in the cover-up, we can deeply scrutinise and rethink all our scientific links with Beijing, and we can learn a thousand lessons about the wrongness of censorship of mere opinions - eg Facebook banning any mention of the lab leak hypothesis for a year
Well we should be doing that anyway in regard to all the other horrible things China has done and is doing.
So the "lab leak" thing is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
Whether it leaked from the lab or naturally occurred, what difference is it going to make?
FFFS
@Gallowgate is right though isn't he ? China is both an unconsciable state, and also far too massive globally to ignore. I mean look at what's going on with the Uighurs, Tibet, Taiwan.
Switching from appeasement to containment would have a massive effect on Chinese prosperity and put pressure on the regime, although admittedly it might cost us too in the short term.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
No point @Leon even though you are right. The fact is this would potentially exonerate Trump. Given that, very few people here will have very little interest in acknowledging it.
LOL.
It won't exonerate Trump, he screwed up the response to Covid-19 which explains all those deaths in America.
Lab leak or natural coronavirus doesn't change his response.
I'm not talking about his wider response, I'm talking about his view that this could have been a leak from a lab.
As I said to @Gallowgate there were a fair few people on here who were openly mocking it, saying it was garbage etc etc. Now, in a normal circumstance, such people would be accepting that they might have been wrong or, at least, too hasty to discount the theory.
And Foxy is right: we must pressurise China to close the wet markets and end the wildlife trade
What kind of depraved fucker eats a pangolin, anyway?
Save The Pangolins. If any good is to come of this wretched calamity, perhaps one upside is this: we will rethink our hideous mistreatment of wild animals
Rishi Sunak, the UK chancellor, is pushing to win a carve-out for the City of London in the G7’s push for a new global tax system to cover the world’s “largest and most profitable multinational enterprises”.
Sunak said the weekend’s “historic agreement” by G7 finance ministers would force “the largest multinational tech giants to pay their fair share of tax in the UK”.
But one official close to the talks said the UK was among those countries pushing “for an exemption on financial services”, reflecting Sunak’s fears that global banks with head offices in London could be affected.
HSBC, the UK’s biggest bank by revenues, generates more than half its income from China, while Standard Chartered, another UK-headquartered lender, conducts little business in Britain, with most from Asia and Africa.
Sunak raised the issue at the G7 talks in London, according to those briefed on the meeting, and his allies confirmed he would continue to make the case when the talks move to the G20 next month.
“Our position is we want financial services companies to be exempt and EU countries are in the same position,” said one British official. But Joe Biden, US president, wants to broaden the scope of the tax so it does not just hit US tech giants.
The Treasury said of the G7 agreement: “The deal makes sure that the system is fair, so that the right companies pay the right taxes in the right places.” It would now be discussed in further detail by G20 finance ministers and central bank governors.
Under so-called “pillar one” of the deal, it was agreed that countries could tax 20 per cent of the profits of the biggest multinationals above a 10 per cent margin based on where the company made its sales, regardless of whether they had a physical presence in that country.
The rationale for excluding the financial sector was set out in October 2020 in a “pillar one” plan that said financial services were a special case because they were generally required to have appropriately capitalised entities in each jurisdiction and therefore paid the right level of local tax.
But Biden’s proposals in April to define the type of companies included in the pillar one plan was cross-sector, based on the 100 largest and most profitable firms, and brought the issue of financial services back in scope.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
Whether it leaked from the lab or naturally occurred, what difference is it going to make?
FFFS
@Gallowgate is right though isn't he ? China is both an unconsciable state, and also far too massive globally to ignore. I mean look at what's going on with the Uighurs, Tibet, Taiwan.
Even if we can't do anything serious inside China, we can stop this "gain of function" research worldwide, we must prosecute those involved in the cover-up, we can deeply scrutinise and rethink all our scientific links with Beijing, and we can learn a thousand lessons about the wrongness of censorship of mere opinions - eg Facebook banning any mention of the lab leak hypothesis for a year
Well we should be doing that anyway in regard to all the other horrible things China has done and is doing.
So the "lab leak" thing is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
Whether it leaked from the lab or naturally occurred, what difference is it going to make?
FFFS
@Gallowgate is right though isn't he ? China is both an unconsciable state, and also far too massive globally to ignore. I mean look at what's going on with the Uighurs, Tibet, Taiwan.
Switching from appeasement to containment would have a massive effect on Chinese prosperity and put pressure on the regime, although admittedly it might cost us too in the short term.
They're not omnipotent and have vulnerabilities.
That is absolutely spot on. China has a huge amount of vulnerabilities whether economic or, in fact, militarily. The problem is too many people have the attitude of @Gallowgate that we should just throw our hands up in the air.
Read that article on Lab Theory. It's absolutely compelling. I've always had it down as plausible but from that I'd put it down as highly probable now. It's much, much more likely that a poorly secured lab researching SARS like viruses was the source of this than a wet market.
The shut down of their database server in September 2019 feels like the biggest tell. I suspect it leaked in September 2019 and then it took a couple of months to seed into the general population. That's an admission of guilt.
Which article?
Genuinely curious. I've been alerting friends and family to the lab leak hypothesis, and it is interesting which evidence acts like the Red Pill
They are quite happy to invest within our guidelines, including no fossil fuels. We don't micromanage them, just review the portfolio every now and then. The returns have been pretty good for the last couple of years.
Thank you. How did you come up with the criteria? (At the moment there are various shopping lists circulating our committees, some of which seem unrealistic.)
Rathbone might be too small an outfit for us. Good to know of their funds, though.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
Whether it leaked from the lab or naturally occurred, what difference is it going to make?
FFFS
@Gallowgate is right though isn't he ? China is both an unconsciable state, and also far too massive globally to ignore. I mean look at what's going on with the Uighurs, Tibet, Taiwan.
Switching from appeasement to containment would have a massive effect on Chinese prosperity and put pressure on the regime, although admittedly it might cost us too in the short term.
They're not omnipotent and have vulnerabilities.
That is absolutely spot on. China has a huge amount of vulnerabilities whether economic or, in fact, militarily. The problem is too many people have the attitude of @Gallowgate that we should just throw our hands up in the air.
I don't think I've ever said "we should throw our hands up in the air".
I simply said there's no point getting your knickers in a twist over whether Covid-19 came from a lab or nature because it's irrelevant. China has done horrible things and continues to do horrible things. Covid is neither here nor there. We have turned a blind eye up to this point and will continue to do so.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
No point @Leon even though you are right. The fact is this would potentially exonerate Trump. Given that, very few people here will have very little interest in acknowledging it.
LOL.
It won't exonerate Trump, he screwed up the response to Covid-19 which explains all those deaths in America.
Lab leak or natural coronavirus doesn't change his response.
I'm not talking about his wider response, I'm talking about his view that this could have been a leak from a lab.
As I said to @Gallowgate there were a fair few people on here who were openly mocking it, saying it was garbage etc etc. Now, in a normal circumstance, such people would be accepting that they might have been wrong or, at least, too hasty to discount the theory.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
Whether it leaked from the lab or naturally occurred, what difference is it going to make?
FFFS
@Gallowgate is right though isn't he ? China is both an unconsciable state, and also far too massive globally to ignore. I mean look at what's going on with the Uighurs, Tibet, Taiwan.
Even if we can't do anything serious inside China, we can stop this "gain of function" research worldwide, we must prosecute those involved in the cover-up, we can deeply scrutinise and rethink all our scientific links with Beijing, and we can learn a thousand lessons about the wrongness of censorship of mere opinions - eg Facebook banning any mention of the lab leak hypothesis for a year
Well we should be doing that anyway in regard to all the other horrible things China has done and is doing.
So the "lab leak" thing is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
Well, it isn't because it might affect the global system of regulation of laboratories in future and how "open" we allow our borders to be to China in the long run, including a research blockade:
I can't help but feel a point apparently missed by many of the amateur models on twitter, and very much to the fore now, is that the 'R' rate is far from uniform precisely because our vaccines have been so targetted.
If we'd have distributed them at random, we'd have many more elderly deaths, but we'd probably already be at herd immunity.
As it is, we have clear pockets of 'vulnerability' in the under 30s which are open to sudden spikes in cases, but which will then fall off relatively quickly as the wider population is immune. Seems to be what we're seeing in places like Bedford and Bolton. There isn't yet an example of a Delta hotspot hitting really big numbers in just 1 place - the case growth is coming from geographical spread rather than sustaining growth in a given area.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
No point @Leon even though you are right. The fact is this would potentially exonerate Trump. Given that, very few people here will have very little interest in acknowledging it.
LOL.
It won't exonerate Trump, he screwed up the response to Covid-19 which explains all those deaths in America.
Lab leak or natural coronavirus doesn't change his response.
I'm not talking about his wider response, I'm talking about his view that this could have been a leak from a lab.
As I said to @Gallowgate there were a fair few people on here who were openly mocking it, saying it was garbage etc etc. Now, in a normal circumstance, such people would be accepting that they might have been wrong or, at least, too hasty to discount the theory.
Who was openly mocking it? No one that I recall.
You misremember. There was much mockery on here, some of it of the lofty I'm-a-scientist variety, some of it don't-be-a-Trumpite-loon variety, which was even more sneering
You do seem to enjoy playing the role of the Grim Reaper, telling us all that we're doomed, doomed, I tell ye.
I don’t think we are doomed, this too will pass, just a lot later than it could have done and it’s likely to screw up what could have been a great summer. So I’m pissed off.
In the Sixties flagrant racism was quite common. We have all moved on quite a bit from then, the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there.
Yet currently.
Documents also shed light on Queen’s ongoing exemption from race and sex discrimination laws
You've been dangerously off-form recently.
I don't know if this is work or tiredness getting to you but maybe you need a break?
I had a magnificent three day break last weekend.
I have an even more brilliant long weekend planned in Blackpool next weekend.
If that's true then we're in this until 2022. I think it's time to leave the country, freedom just won't exist here in any meaningful sense because the government has been captured by the doom mongering scientists who want to keep everyone locked up forever.
It is more that the scientists have been captured by the incompetent government. If Delta had not been so widely seeded so early then we would not be in this mess. The percentage change in reported weekly cases keeps going up, every day. It’s at just over 60% at the moment. If it simply stops at that figure then this time next month we will be at 40,000 cases per day - roughly where we were at Christmas. If it keeps going up then we will be there, and beyond, a lot quicker. That’s further lockdown territory. All because Johnson didn’t want to upset Modi to get a trade deal.
It’s not “doom mongering scientists” who will be at fault if that happens. It will be Johnson’s determination to go to Delhi long after it was clear that was not possible. Hopefully it won’t and the hopeful trajectory of Bolton will be followed but if it does then don’t blame the scientists, Blame Johnson.
It's not going to just stop at 60%. That figure is based on cases by report date and is heavily impacted by bank holiday effects.
Look at the actual number of cases by specimen date - rock solid at 5k since Tuesday last week for England. The original hotspots already plateaued or falling. It won't reach 40k a day unless a place like Bedford was on the way to reaching half it's Jan peak, rather than already falling. Your 'analysis' is frankly hysterical.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
Whether it leaked from the lab or naturally occurred, what difference is it going to make?
FFFS
@Gallowgate is right though isn't he ? China is both an unconsciable state, and also far too massive globally to ignore. I mean look at what's going on with the Uighurs, Tibet, Taiwan.
Even if we can't do anything serious inside China, we can stop this "gain of function" research worldwide, we must prosecute those involved in the cover-up, we can deeply scrutinise and rethink all our scientific links with Beijing, and we can learn a thousand lessons about the wrongness of censorship of mere opinions - eg Facebook banning any mention of the lab leak hypothesis for a year
Well we should be doing that anyway in regard to all the other horrible things China has done and is doing.
So the "lab leak" thing is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
Well, it isn't because it might affect the global system of regulation of laboratories in future and how "open" we allow our borders to be to China in the long run, including a research blockade:
What do you mean? It’s tracking it almost exactly!
No it isn't, admissions are growing far slower (33-50% of the speed, at best), and will continue to be suppressed by every increasing amounts as more vaccinations take effect.
Anyway, those stats really need to be split by vaccinated or not.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
Whether it leaked from the lab or naturally occurred, what difference is it going to make?
FFFS
@Gallowgate is right though isn't he ? China is both an unconsciable state, and also far too massive globally to ignore. I mean look at what's going on with the Uighurs, Tibet, Taiwan.
Switching from appeasement to containment would have a massive effect on Chinese prosperity and put pressure on the regime, although admittedly it might cost us too in the short term.
They're not omnipotent and have vulnerabilities.
That is absolutely spot on. China has a huge amount of vulnerabilities whether economic or, in fact, militarily. The problem is too many people have the attitude of @Gallowgate that we should just throw our hands up in the air.
I don't think I've ever said "we should throw our hands up in the air".
I simply said there's no point getting your knickers in a twist over whether Covid-19 came from a lab or nature because it's irrelevant. China has done horrible things and continues to do horrible things. Covid is neither here nor there. We have turned a blind eye up to this point and will continue to do so.
No point stressing.
I'm not so sure on the not pressing thing. For a start, this looks to be putting China somewhat on the back foot. While there is always the chance China lashes out, the latest language from Xi suggests a recognition they could be ostracised, which in turn leads to a softening of their actions. Plus, there is the question of how secure Xi actually might be.
In the Sixties flagrant racism was quite common. We have all moved on quite a bit from then, the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there.
Yet currently.
Documents also shed light on Queen’s ongoing exemption from race and sex discrimination laws
You've been dangerously off-form recently.
I don't know if this is work or tiredness getting to you but maybe you need a break?
You come over as a bit unhinged about the monarchy, although I appreciate that you're principally trying to annoy supporters of Brexit who contribute to this site.
In the Sixties flagrant racism was quite common. We have all moved on quite a bit from then, the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there.
Yet currently.
Documents also shed light on Queen’s ongoing exemption from race and sex discrimination laws
You've been dangerously off-form recently.
I don't know if this is work or tiredness getting to you but maybe you need a break?
I had a magnificent three day break last weekend.
I have an even more brilliant long weekend planned in Blackpool next weekend.
If the Middle Common Room have any sense of humour they will vote to put up a picture of Queen.
I want to bake free Radio Rum-Baba It's a hard loaf Flesh Ham to fall It's a Rind of magic Don't lose your bread Seven seas of rye Now I'm beer Bohemian rhubarbsody We are the Champignons Another one bites the crust Udder pressure Bakethru'
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
Whether it leaked from the lab or naturally occurred, what difference is it going to make?
FFFS
@Gallowgate is right though isn't he ? China is both an unconsciable state, and also far too massive globally to ignore. I mean look at what's going on with the Uighurs, Tibet, Taiwan.
Even if we can't do anything serious inside China, we can stop this "gain of function" research worldwide, we must prosecute those involved in the cover-up, we can deeply scrutinise and rethink all our scientific links with Beijing, and we can learn a thousand lessons about the wrongness of censorship of mere opinions - eg Facebook banning any mention of the lab leak hypothesis for a year
Well we should be doing that anyway in regard to all the other horrible things China has done and is doing.
So the "lab leak" thing is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
Well, it isn't because it might affect the global system of regulation of laboratories in future and how "open" we allow our borders to be to China in the long run, including a research blockade:
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
No point @Leon even though you are right. The fact is this would potentially exonerate Trump. Given that, very few people here will have very little interest in acknowledging it.
LOL.
It won't exonerate Trump, he screwed up the response to Covid-19 which explains all those deaths in America.
Lab leak or natural coronavirus doesn't change his response.
I'm not talking about his wider response, I'm talking about his view that this could have been a leak from a lab.
As I said to @Gallowgate there were a fair few people on here who were openly mocking it, saying it was garbage etc etc. Now, in a normal circumstance, such people would be accepting that they might have been wrong or, at least, too hasty to discount the theory.
Who was openly mocking it? No one that I recall.
A lot. It was seem as evidence of his Sinophobia, attempts to cover the blame etc etc.
In the Sixties flagrant racism was quite common. We have all moved on quite a bit from then, the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there.
Yet currently.
Documents also shed light on Queen’s ongoing exemption from race and sex discrimination laws
You've been dangerously off-form recently.
I don't know if this is work or tiredness getting to you but maybe you need a break?
You come over as a bit unhinged about the monarchy, although I appreciate that you're principally trying to annoy supporters of Brexit who contribute to this site.
In the Sixties flagrant racism was quite common. We have all moved on quite a bit from then, the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there.
Yet currently.
Documents also shed light on Queen’s ongoing exemption from race and sex discrimination laws
You've been dangerously off-form recently.
I don't know if this is work or tiredness getting to you but maybe you need a break?
I had a magnificent three day break last weekend.
I have an even more brilliant long weekend planned in Blackpool next weekend.
I hope you enjoy it.
He will be wearing his morning suit / frock coat along the Promenade and up the Tower.
You do seem to enjoy playing the role of the Grim Reaper, telling us all that we're doomed, doomed, I tell ye.
It’s clearly nowhere near as bad as the autumn and those graphs apply to the NW hotspot only. Is there a graph comparing the whole UK to the autumn wave?
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
Whether it leaked from the lab or naturally occurred, what difference is it going to make?
FFFS
@Gallowgate is right though isn't he ? China is both an unconsciable state, and also far too massive globally to ignore. I mean look at what's going on with the Uighurs, Tibet, Taiwan.
Even if we can't do anything serious inside China, we can stop this "gain of function" research worldwide, we must prosecute those involved in the cover-up, we can deeply scrutinise and rethink all our scientific links with Beijing, and we can learn a thousand lessons about the wrongness of censorship of mere opinions - eg Facebook banning any mention of the lab leak hypothesis for a year
Well we should be doing that anyway in regard to all the other horrible things China has done and is doing.
So the "lab leak" thing is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
Well, it isn't because it might affect the global system of regulation of laboratories in future and how "open" we allow our borders to be to China in the long run, including a research blockade:
In the Sixties flagrant racism was quite common. We have all moved on quite a bit from then, the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there.
Yet currently.
Documents also shed light on Queen’s ongoing exemption from race and sex discrimination laws
You've been dangerously off-form recently.
I don't know if this is work or tiredness getting to you but maybe you need a break?
You come over as a bit unhinged about the monarchy, although I appreciate that you're principally trying to annoy supporters of Brexit who contribute to this site.
You do seem to enjoy playing the role of the Grim Reaper, telling us all that we're doomed, doomed, I tell ye.
It’s clearly nowhere near as bad as the autumn and those graphs apply to the NW hotspot only. Is there a graph comparing the whole UK to the autumn wave?
They are quite happy to invest within our guidelines, including no fossil fuels. We don't micromanage them, just review the portfolio every now and then. The returns have been pretty good for the last couple of years.
Thank you. How did you come up with the criteria? (At the moment there are various shopping lists circulating our committees, some of which seem unrealistic.)
Rathbone might be too small an outfit for us. Good to know of their funds, though.
--AS
The criteria were not too difficult. No military involvement, tobacco, alcohol, no fossil fuels or other environmental damaging activities, no oppressive regimes, and a positive bias to socially useful investments. We have 6 figures invested with them, and know other associated churches do too.
If that's true then we're in this until 2022. I think it's time to leave the country, freedom just won't exist here in any meaningful sense because the government has been captured by the doom mongering scientists who want to keep everyone locked up forever.
It is more that the scientists have been captured by the incompetent government. If Delta had not been so widely seeded so early then we would not be in this mess. The percentage change in reported weekly cases keeps going up, every day. It’s at just over 60% at the moment. If it simply stops at that figure then this time next month we will be at 40,000 cases per day - roughly where we were at Christmas. If it keeps going up then we will be there, and beyond, a lot quicker. That’s further lockdown territory. All because Johnson didn’t want to upset Modi to get a trade deal.
It’s not “doom mongering scientists” who will be at fault if that happens. It will be Johnson’s determination to go to Delhi long after it was clear that was not possible. Hopefully it won’t and the hopeful trajectory of Bolton will be followed but if it does then don’t blame the scientists, Blame Johnson.
It's not going to just stop at 60%. That figure is based on cases by report date and is heavily impacted by bank holiday effects.
Look at the actual number of cases by specimen date - rock solid at 5k since Tuesday last week for England. The original hotspots already plateaued or falling. It won't reach 40k a day unless a place like Bedford was on the way to reaching half it's Jan peak, rather than already falling. Your 'analysis' is frankly hysterical.
Er.... "rock solid at 5K"??
Yes, in England since Tuesday if you would read what I wrote and not try to compare it to your graphs for different data (wrong geography, too long date coverage)
The figures since Tuesday are -
4313 4881 4924 4682 3708
The final date there being Friday, where the cases added today was just 299 and so subsequent updating is unlikely to move it materially - clearly weekend onwards still coming in.
Those aren't numbers which back up a 60% week on week growth freak out panic. The headline on the dashboard is based on reported cases disturbed by the bank holiday so the denominator is artificially small. Cases are up but talking about 60% is silly.
On why the Lab Theory is so important - if the virus was initially seeded in September 2019 as the database shutdown implies a warning to the rest of the world would have got the Jenner institute, BioNTech, Janssen, Moderna and Novavax working on vaccines immediately. The starting gun for vaccines would have been fired four months earlier and human trials would have been commenced during the first wave. We would have had our vaccines in June, not December. We'd have completed our vaccine programme well before Christmas 2020 and we'd be back to normal with vaccines being produced in record volumes for the developing world too.
As it is we're playing catch up because China covered it all up and seeded the virus all over the world by keeping flights out of Wuhan open for months.
In the Sixties flagrant racism was quite common. We have all moved on quite a bit from then, the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there.
Yet currently.
Documents also shed light on Queen’s ongoing exemption from race and sex discrimination laws
You've been dangerously off-form recently.
I don't know if this is work or tiredness getting to you but maybe you need a break?
You come over as a bit unhinged about the monarchy, although I appreciate that you're principally trying to annoy supporters of Brexit who contribute to this site.
Me, or TSE?
Sorry, TSE. He's never forgiven us for letting him down over Brexit.
@Charles, could I possibly pick your brains? Would you happen to have any advice for a charity wanting to adopt an ESG policy for its investments?
If you'd be willing, could I pm you?
(If any other PB'ers are knowledgeable on this topic the same question applies!)
--AS
If you are after resources, I have been involved a little with a group called the Ecumenical Council for Corporate Responsibility, which has its roots in a project by an Industrial Chaplain in the late 1980s.
They were early on Ethical Investment. Their first substantial piece of work I saw was in the early 1990s, and I think was a study of one of the big oil companies. Good as brain food, and for wider awareness.
Probably worth a contact, as they will all sorts of members and associates in smallish organisations.
You do seem to enjoy playing the role of the Grim Reaper, telling us all that we're doomed, doomed, I tell ye.
It’s clearly nowhere near as bad as the autumn and those graphs apply to the NW hotspot only. Is there a graph comparing the whole UK to the autumn wave?
People were saying that about Kent in November,
One of the few things Dominic Cummings was right about was the openness of data. Why aren't we being given data on vaccinated vs unvaccinated? The nation peer-reviewing SAGE would be much preferable.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
Whether it leaked from the lab or naturally occurred, what difference is it going to make?
FFFS
@Gallowgate is right though isn't he ? China is both an unconsciable state, and also far too massive globally to ignore. I mean look at what's going on with the Uighurs, Tibet, Taiwan.
Even if we can't do anything serious inside China, we can stop this "gain of function" research worldwide, we must prosecute those involved in the cover-up, we can deeply scrutinise and rethink all our scientific links with Beijing, and we can learn a thousand lessons about the wrongness of censorship of mere opinions - eg Facebook banning any mention of the lab leak hypothesis for a year
Well we should be doing that anyway in regard to all the other horrible things China has done and is doing.
So the "lab leak" thing is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
Well, it isn't because it might affect the global system of regulation of laboratories in future and how "open" we allow our borders to be to China in the long run, including a research blockade:
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
No point @Leon even though you are right. The fact is this would potentially exonerate Trump. Given that, very few people here will have very little interest in acknowledging it.
LOL.
It won't exonerate Trump, he screwed up the response to Covid-19 which explains all those deaths in America.
Lab leak or natural coronavirus doesn't change his response.
I'm not talking about his wider response, I'm talking about his view that this could have been a leak from a lab.
As I said to @Gallowgate there were a fair few people on here who were openly mocking it, saying it was garbage etc etc. Now, in a normal circumstance, such people would be accepting that they might have been wrong or, at least, too hasty to discount the theory.
Who was openly mocking it? No one that I recall.
A lot. It was seem as evidence of his Sinophobia, attempts to cover the blame etc etc.
There was mockery on here as late as ten days ago
I linked to this absolutely seminal article by Nicholas Wade in the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists
One of the "boffins" on here chortled away, Oh do tell us what The Bulletin has to say, "is it a doomsday weapon, are we close to a meltdown" etc etc. The implication being that the article must be nonsense, because it wasn't published in a regular medico-science journal like, ooh, The Lancet
Thus entirely missing the fucking point: that many of the mainstream science journals are part of the damn cover-up, and refuse to publish ANYTHING in support of the lab leak hypothesis, unless you put their testicles in a vice - that's if they have testicles which haven't been stolen and sauteed by China
This ugly journalistic censorship is ably described here:
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
Whether it leaked from the lab or naturally occurred, what difference is it going to make?
FFFS
@Gallowgate is right though isn't he ? China is both an unconsciable state, and also far too massive globally to ignore. I mean look at what's going on with the Uighurs, Tibet, Taiwan.
Even if we can't do anything serious inside China, we can stop this "gain of function" research worldwide, we must prosecute those involved in the cover-up, we can deeply scrutinise and rethink all our scientific links with Beijing, and we can learn a thousand lessons about the wrongness of censorship of mere opinions - eg Facebook banning any mention of the lab leak hypothesis for a year
Well we should be doing that anyway in regard to all the other horrible things China has done and is doing.
So the "lab leak" thing is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
Well, it isn't because it might affect the global system of regulation of laboratories in future and how "open" we allow our borders to be to China in the long run, including a research blockade:
I'm sure China is quaking in their boots at the thought of a research blockade.
Well, they should be because it will affect their technological and biological research and the IP they need to export their services.
Don't forget China aren't top dog at everything. They made a shit vaccine, for example.
I'm sure a million Chinese PHD students are currently squirrelling away in labs reverse engineering the Pfizer jab and/or hacked data.
They probably are, but they're always going to be one step behind doing that and undermining their credibility with new partners who might prefer the West and it's Due Process instead (provided we grow a pair and protect our friends).
On why the Lab Theory is so important - if the virus was initially seeded in September 2019 as the database shutdown implies a warning to the rest of the world would have got the Jenner institute, BioNTech, Janssen, Moderna and Novavax working on vaccines immediately. The starting gun for vaccines would have been fired four months earlier and human trials would have been commenced during the first wave. We would have had our vaccines in June, not December. We'd have completed our vaccine programme well before Christmas 2020 and we'd be back to normal with vaccines being produced in record volumes for the developing world too.
As it is we're playing catch up because China covered it all up and seeded the virus all over the world by keeping flights out of Wuhan open for months.
Read that article on Lab Theory. It's absolutely compelling. I've always had it down as plausible but from that I'd put it down as highly probable now. It's much, much more likely that a poorly secured lab researching SARS like viruses was the source of this than a wet market.
The shut down of their database server in September 2019 feels like the biggest tell. I suspect it leaked in September 2019 and then it took a couple of months to seed into the general population. That's an admission of guilt.
Which article?
Genuinely curious. I've been alerting friends and family to the lab leak hypothesis, and it is interesting which evidence acts like the Red Pill
The Newsweek one you posted just now. It's really interesting. I posted it in my uni WhatsApp group which is mostly chemistry and biochemistry graduates and most of them are convinced too.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
Whether it leaked from the lab or naturally occurred, what difference is it going to make?
FFFS
@Gallowgate is right though isn't he ? China is both an unconsciable state, and also far too massive globally to ignore. I mean look at what's going on with the Uighurs, Tibet, Taiwan.
Even if we can't do anything serious inside China, we can stop this "gain of function" research worldwide, we must prosecute those involved in the cover-up, we can deeply scrutinise and rethink all our scientific links with Beijing, and we can learn a thousand lessons about the wrongness of censorship of mere opinions - eg Facebook banning any mention of the lab leak hypothesis for a year
Well we should be doing that anyway in regard to all the other horrible things China has done and is doing.
So the "lab leak" thing is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
Well, it isn't because it might affect the global system of regulation of laboratories in future and how "open" we allow our borders to be to China in the long run, including a research blockade:
I'm sure China is quaking in their boots at the thought of a research blockade.
Well, they should be because it will affect their technological and biological research and the IP they need to export their services.
Don't forget China aren't top dog at everything. They made a shit vaccine, for example.
I'm sure a million Chinese PHD students are currently squirrelling away in labs reverse engineering the Pfizer jab and/or hacked data.
They probably are, but they're always going to be one step behind doing that and undermining their credibility with new partners who might prefer the West and it's Due Process instead (provided we grow a pair and protect our friends).
I'd be in support of sanctions on China for all sorts of reasons, never mind Covid.
You do seem to enjoy playing the role of the Grim Reaper, telling us all that we're doomed, doomed, I tell ye.
It’s clearly nowhere near as bad as the autumn and those graphs apply to the NW hotspot only. Is there a graph comparing the whole UK to the autumn wave?
On why the Lab Theory is so important - if the virus was initially seeded in September 2019 as the database shutdown implies a warning to the rest of the world would have got the Jenner institute, BioNTech, Janssen, Moderna and Novavax working on vaccines immediately. The starting gun for vaccines would have been fired four months earlier and human trials would have been commenced during the first wave. We would have had our vaccines in June, not December. We'd have completed our vaccine programme well before Christmas 2020 and we'd be back to normal with vaccines being produced in record volumes for the developing world too.
As it is we're playing catch up because China covered it all up and seeded the virus all over the world by keeping flights out of Wuhan open for months.
So, Xi would literally have cost millions of lives.
In the Sixties flagrant racism was quite common. We have all moved on quite a bit from then, the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there.
Yet currently.
Documents also shed light on Queen’s ongoing exemption from race and sex discrimination laws
You've been dangerously off-form recently.
I don't know if this is work or tiredness getting to you but maybe you need a break?
You come over as a bit unhinged about the monarchy, although I appreciate that you're principally trying to annoy supporters of Brexit who contribute to this site.
Me, or TSE?
Sorry, TSE. He's never forgiven us for letting him down over Brexit.
Thanks. I'm not sure he was a big fan of the monarchy before but the trolling levels weren't turned up to eleven, as they are now.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
No point @Leon even though you are right. The fact is this would potentially exonerate Trump. Given that, very few people here will have very little interest in acknowledging it.
LOL.
It won't exonerate Trump, he screwed up the response to Covid-19 which explains all those deaths in America.
Lab leak or natural coronavirus doesn't change his response.
I'm not talking about his wider response, I'm talking about his view that this could have been a leak from a lab.
As I said to @Gallowgate there were a fair few people on here who were openly mocking it, saying it was garbage etc etc. Now, in a normal circumstance, such people would be accepting that they might have been wrong or, at least, too hasty to discount the theory.
Who was openly mocking it? No one that I recall.
A lot. It was seem as evidence of his Sinophobia, attempts to cover the blame etc etc.
I don't remember any.
Though quite obviously he was trying far too long to cover his own incompetence, but that is independent of covid's origin.
In the Sixties flagrant racism was quite common. We have all moved on quite a bit from then, the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there.
Yet currently.
Documents also shed light on Queen’s ongoing exemption from race and sex discrimination laws
You've been dangerously off-form recently.
I don't know if this is work or tiredness getting to you but maybe you need a break?
You come over as a bit unhinged about the monarchy, although I appreciate that you're principally trying to annoy supporters of Brexit who contribute to this site.
Stunning indeed. Fauci really says this. Go to 1:38
‘Fauci's words are stunning: "You don't wanna go to Hoboken New Jersey or to Fairfax Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO AN OUTBREAK. So you go to China.”’
How does Fauci survive these remarks? He’s now admitting he funded gain-of-function research to make bat coronaviruses nastier. And the reason he funded this science in Wuhan is because such research is dangerous, might cause a pandemic, and he didn’t want to take that risk in America
I’m struggling to find an alternative explanation for his words
That seems incredibly aggressively clipped. Would love to see the surrounding context.
I've watched it all, and debated it with some other lab-leakers. Yes, we're a tribe! I am actually talking with Richard Ebright, the Prof of Chemistry at Rutgers, and one of the leading early doubters about natural, non-lab zoonosis
Anyway we have decided to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt, to an extent, on this quote. He is probably trying to say, in a garbled way, that it is better to do the research in China because that is where the bat-interface is - ie in the caves of Yunnan - so there's no point in spreading the risk of a leak by bringing the research back to the USA. He's not saying Chinese lives are worth less
However, he is, it seems, admitting that this research IS dangerous, and might cause an outbreak
Elsewhere in the same interview Fauci tells two outright lies. He suggests the Wuhan lab is excellent and reputable (it isn't, US observers raised grave fears about Wuhan's biosecuirity in 2017) and he denies any link between the lab and the Chinese military, which is nonsense: there is ample evidence of links, including a State Department report in early 2020
Why is Fauci telling all these apparent lies? He knows he's in deep shit. I expect one day soon he will be grilled about all this much more forensically
A small lab leak in China which killed a few dozen would mean fuck all.
A small lab leak in the USA which killed a few dozen would get you in serious legal problems.
Actually, as small lab leak in China could result in the Director's execution.
Which would give them something of an incentive to cover problems up.
But what would worry some US topbods more - someone in China being executed or themselves facing legal action in the USA ?
Quite a few people in the UK are also in the firing line. Daszak (a Brit). Horton at the Lancet. The editors of Nature. Farrar at the Wellcome Trust. Vallance is implicated: he was at the virtual meeting when Fauci allegedly revealed the USG's suspicions of a lab leak - even as they told the dumb public this was a *racist conspiracy theory*.
It lab leak theory being true and it being a “racist conspiracy theory” are not actually mutually inconsistent.
True but uninteresting
But it is at the heart of the justification for a “cover up” (if it happened). If Trump had actually been interested in working with his intelligence agencies/scientists/whatever rather than seeing all of them as part of a massive conspiracy out to get him, then they would have been more relaxed about such theories being explored publicly, rather than need shutting down.
Bollocks
Trump was an odious madman, but the lab leak hypothesis was clearly plausible, and clearly needed investigating, from the get go. Blaming Trump is a feeble excuse advanced by people who are embarrassed by their earlier errors, or, worse, incriminated in the cover-up
PS: a cover up DEFINITELY happened. Read this entirely convincing Vanity Fair piece (or many many others)
Yeah, you're right, 10 million dead, the world economy in turmoil, who cares how it happened, it's like Chernobyl, best forgotten, pass the crystal meth, ta
No point @Leon even though you are right. The fact is this would potentially exonerate Trump. Given that, very few people here will have very little interest in acknowledging it.
LOL.
It won't exonerate Trump, he screwed up the response to Covid-19 which explains all those deaths in America.
Lab leak or natural coronavirus doesn't change his response.
I'm not talking about his wider response, I'm talking about his view that this could have been a leak from a lab.
As I said to @Gallowgate there were a fair few people on here who were openly mocking it, saying it was garbage etc etc. Now, in a normal circumstance, such people would be accepting that they might have been wrong or, at least, too hasty to discount the theory.
Who was openly mocking it? No one that I recall.
A lot. It was seem as evidence of his Sinophobia, attempts to cover the blame etc etc.
There was mockery on here as late as ten days ago
I linked to this absolutely seminal article by Nicholas Wade in the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists
One of the "boffins" on here chortled away, Oh do tell us what The Bulletin has to say, "is it a doomsday weapon, are we close to a meltdown" etc etc. The implication being that the article must be nonsense, because it wasn't published in a regular medico-science journal like, ooh, The Lancet
Thus entirely missing the fucking point: that many of the mainstream science journals are part of the damn cover-up, and refuse to publish ANYTHING in support of the lab leak hypothesis, unless you put their testicles in a vice - that's if they have testicles which haven't been stolen and sauteed by China
This ugly journalistic censorship is ably described here:
In the Sixties flagrant racism was quite common. We have all moved on quite a bit from then, the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there.
Yet currently.
Documents also shed light on Queen’s ongoing exemption from race and sex discrimination laws
You've been dangerously off-form recently.
I don't know if this is work or tiredness getting to you but maybe you need a break?
You come over as a bit unhinged about the monarchy, although I appreciate that you're principally trying to annoy supporters of Brexit who contribute to this site.
A remainer on a five-year sulk? Surely not?
Fake news, like the fake news your spread about Neil Ferguson.
You do seem to enjoy playing the role of the Grim Reaper, telling us all that we're doomed, doomed, I tell ye.
It’s clearly nowhere near as bad as the autumn and those graphs apply to the NW hotspot only. Is there a graph comparing the whole UK to the autumn wave?
On why the Lab Theory is so important - if the virus was initially seeded in September 2019 as the database shutdown implies a warning to the rest of the world would have got the Jenner institute, BioNTech, Janssen, Moderna and Novavax working on vaccines immediately. The starting gun for vaccines would have been fired four months earlier and human trials would have been commenced during the first wave. We would have had our vaccines in June, not December. We'd have completed our vaccine programme well before Christmas 2020 and we'd be back to normal with vaccines being produced in record volumes for the developing world too.
As it is we're playing catch up because China covered it all up and seeded the virus all over the world by keeping flights out of Wuhan open for months.
That may all be right, but so what?
We're not going to do anything about it.
Therefore for the layman, why worry, or care?
Common man, no but then nothing we say on here really makes any difference.
The point is that governments can defence plan with this knowledge. We need a plan of action that we can put in place overnight which includes closing down flights, getting samples so we can get vaccines researched and into trials within weeks and rolled out after the first wave.
The Lab Theory is key to avoiding this two years of misery in the future.
Comments
If the Govt makes a law requiring eg. 50% of senior management to be filled by women, or 25% by ethnic minorities etc then clearly that is a problem if it applies to the monarchy.
https://www.commonwealthroundtable.co.uk/commonwealth/opinion-the-queen-and-her-stand-against-racism-in-the-commonwealth/
We can all cherry pick.
I don’t like it, I don’t like saying it, I hope I’m wrong, but the trend line has to start bending down again very very soon for us to escape serious problems.
See Corbyn and the Jews.
I don't know if this is work or tiredness getting to you but maybe you need a break?
https://www.rathbonegreenbank.com/
They are quite happy to invest within our guidelines, including no fossil fuels. We don't micromanage them, just review the portfolio every now and then. The returns have been pretty good for the last couple of years.
All the nightclubs are going to end up as housing or Tescos at this rate >.>**
* Pigs might fly too
** And who do property developers vote for.. oh
It might be interesting to know but practically it doesn't make a difference.
Look at the actual number of cases by specimen date - rock solid at 5k since Tuesday last week for England. The original hotspots already plateaued or falling. It won't reach 40k a day unless a place like Bedford was on the way to reaching half it's Jan peak, rather than already falling. Your 'analysis' is frankly hysterical.
Are cases really rising (60% per week) and if so, does it matter if hospitalisations are declining and deaths statistically insignificant?
I have an even more brilliant long weekend planned in Blackpool next weekend.
Presumably, if China invades Taiwan or indeed SE Asia, then we should just throw our hands up and say "we can't do anything".
I think there was a similar attitude to a certain European country in the 1930s....
The shut down of their database server in September 2019 feels like the biggest tell. I suspect it leaked in September 2019 and then it took a couple of months to seed into the general population. That's an admission of guilt.
It won't exonerate Trump, he screwed up the response to Covid-19 which explains all those deaths in America.
Lab leak or natural coronavirus doesn't change his response.
* not that we will get any recognition from anyone who was mocking it that they might have been wrong
So the "lab leak" thing is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
They're not omnipotent and have vulnerabilities.
As I said to @Gallowgate there were a fair few people on here who were openly mocking it, saying it was garbage etc etc. Now, in a normal circumstance, such people would be accepting that they might have been wrong or, at least, too hasty to discount the theory.
What kind of depraved fucker eats a pangolin, anyway?
Save The Pangolins. If any good is to come of this wretched calamity, perhaps one upside is this: we will rethink our hideous mistreatment of wild animals
Rishi Sunak, the UK chancellor, is pushing to win a carve-out for the City of London in the G7’s push for a new global tax system to cover the world’s “largest and most profitable multinational enterprises”.
Sunak said the weekend’s “historic agreement” by G7 finance ministers would force “the largest multinational tech giants to pay their fair share of tax in the UK”.
But one official close to the talks said the UK was among those countries pushing “for an exemption on financial services”, reflecting Sunak’s fears that global banks with head offices in London could be affected.
HSBC, the UK’s biggest bank by revenues, generates more than half its income from China, while Standard Chartered, another UK-headquartered lender, conducts little business in Britain, with most from Asia and Africa.
Sunak raised the issue at the G7 talks in London, according to those briefed on the meeting, and his allies confirmed he would continue to make the case when the talks move to the G20 next month.
“Our position is we want financial services companies to be exempt and EU countries are in the same position,” said one British official. But Joe Biden, US president, wants to broaden the scope of the tax so it does not just hit US tech giants.
The Treasury said of the G7 agreement: “The deal makes sure that the system is fair, so that the right companies pay the right taxes in the right places.” It would now be discussed in further detail by G20 finance ministers and central bank governors.
Under so-called “pillar one” of the deal, it was agreed that countries could tax 20 per cent of the profits of the biggest multinationals above a 10 per cent margin based on where the company made its sales, regardless of whether they had a physical presence in that country.
The rationale for excluding the financial sector was set out in October 2020 in a “pillar one” plan that said financial services were a special case because they were generally required to have appropriately capitalised entities in each jurisdiction and therefore paid the right level of local tax.
But Biden’s proposals in April to define the type of companies included in the pillar one plan was cross-sector, based on the 100 largest and most profitable firms, and brought the issue of financial services back in scope.
https://www.ft.com/content/4ed18830-f561-4291-8db5-c3c1fa86c1b8
Anyhoo, I'm so old I remember when this government prioritised fish over banking, so I don't hold out much hope for Sunak.
Genuinely curious. I've been alerting friends and family to the lab leak hypothesis, and it is interesting which evidence acts like the Red Pill
Rathbone might be too small an outfit for us. Good to know of their funds, though.
--AS
I simply said there's no point getting your knickers in a twist over whether Covid-19 came from a lab or nature because it's irrelevant. China has done horrible things and continues to do horrible things. Covid is neither here nor there. We have turned a blind eye up to this point and will continue to do so.
No point stressing.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/china-is-not-as-strong-as-it-appears/amp
If we'd have distributed them at random, we'd have many more elderly deaths, but we'd probably already be at herd immunity.
As it is, we have clear pockets of 'vulnerability' in the under 30s which are open to sudden spikes in cases, but which will then fall off relatively quickly as the wider population is immune. Seems to be what we're seeing in places like Bedford and Bolton. There isn't yet an example of a Delta hotspot hitting really big numbers in just 1 place - the case growth is coming from geographical spread rather than sustaining growth in a given area.
Trump was a major issue
I'm sure China is quaking in their boots at the thought of a research blockade.
Anyway, those stats really need to be split by vaccinated or not.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/trump-snubs-pence-and-says-he-would-consider-ron-desantis-as-2024-running-mate/ar-AAKNusk?ocid=msedgdhp
Radio Rum-Baba
It's a hard loaf
Flesh
Ham to fall
It's a Rind of magic
Don't lose your bread
Seven seas of rye
Now I'm beer
Bohemian rhubarbsody
We are the Champignons
Another one bites the crust
Udder pressure
Bakethru'
Don't forget China aren't top dog at everything. They made a shit vaccine, for example.
Plus its cherrypicked to just the Northwest.
The figures since Tuesday are -
4313
4881
4924
4682
3708
The final date there being Friday, where the cases added today was just 299 and so subsequent updating is unlikely to move it materially - clearly weekend onwards still coming in.
Those aren't numbers which back up a 60% week on week growth freak out panic. The headline on the dashboard is based on reported cases disturbed by the bank holiday so the denominator is artificially small. Cases are up but talking about 60% is silly.
As it is we're playing catch up because China covered it all up and seeded the virus all over the world by keeping flights out of Wuhan open for months.
Same factors as Bolton at work.
They were early on Ethical Investment. Their first substantial piece of work I saw was in the early 1990s, and I think was a study of one of the big oil companies. Good as brain food, and for wider awareness.
Probably worth a contact, as they will all sorts of members and associates in smallish organisations.
https://www.eccr.org.uk/
And the Church Commissioners have been in the game as long, but do things on a slightly different scale.
I’d have thought that’s what you’d want to see
I linked to this absolutely seminal article by Nicholas Wade in the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists
https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/
One of the "boffins" on here chortled away, Oh do tell us what The Bulletin has to say, "is it a doomsday weapon, are we close to a meltdown" etc etc. The implication being that the article must be nonsense, because it wasn't published in a regular medico-science journal like, ooh, The Lancet
Thus entirely missing the fucking point: that many of the mainstream science journals are part of the damn cover-up, and refuse to publish ANYTHING in support of the lab leak hypothesis, unless you put their testicles in a vice - that's if they have testicles which haven't been stolen and sauteed by China
This ugly journalistic censorship is ably described here:
https://unherd.com/2021/06/beijings-useful-idiots/
We're not going to do anything about it.
Therefore for the layman, why worry, or care?
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1402351627445620738
That's fantastic news.
That's communists for you.
Which becomes “Hancock refuses to rule out”
Or tonight’s special “if the data says we should delay opening up then we should”
Becomes “Sunak comfortable with 4 week extension of lock down”
Are we prepared to completely rebalance the global economy?
Unlikely.
Though quite obviously he was trying far too long to cover his own incompetence, but that is independent of covid's origin.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2021/jun/03/the-wuhan-lab-leak-theory-podcast
Their conclusion: lab leak remains a possibility and probably shouldn't have been so readily dismissed.
The point is that governments can defence plan with this knowledge. We need a plan of action that we can put in place overnight which includes closing down flights, getting samples so we can get vaccines researched and into trials within weeks and rolled out after the first wave.
The Lab Theory is key to avoiding this two years of misery in the future.