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Trump becoming an even stronger betting favourite for the WH2024 Republican nomination – politicalbe

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Comments

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    IshmaelZ said:

    isam said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Evening Standard reporting Carrie hired her wedding dress for £45

    It showed.
    That's just nasty. Give the girl a break. It was her wedding day..
    My gf, like almost all my mates not on twitter, saw the abuse under the photo of their wedding pics and just said “Why do people have to be so nasty? Haven’t they got anything better to do?”

    Twitter, and politics related social media, is so detached from the real world
    The demented level abuse is how they prove they are good people - to themselves.
    If there had been a wedding in Spinal Tap it would have looked exactly like that.

    But I hereby solemnly and irrevocably undertake to keep such thoughts to myself henceforward.
    I was brought up with the maxim that if you haven't got something nice to say about somebody then you shouldn't say anything at all.
    On that basis I will not be commenting on this.
    I got a bit of that growing up and sometimes my better angel remembers it.
    Then I think, fuck it.
    Is it telling that you said 'better angel', not 'good angel'?

    I read from this that you have two bad angels, one is just slightly less bad than the other.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,348
    kle4 said:

    Endillion said:

    ClippP said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    FPT and now remarkable on topic

    MrEd said:
    Reading that it's worth noting that Trump seems to put off some former Republican voters from voting (and in seemingly far bigger numbers than Boris has with the Tory party as he swallowed up Farage's Brexit Party votes).

    So while supporting Trump is essential to ensure you win the Republican nominations for your seat, it may equally be scoring potential voters away.
    The massive difference between Trump and Boris is that Boris is a moderate, socially liberal and longstanding Conservative who Europe aside from the issue of Europe might have even been called a "wet" who has won over Farages voters. Boris's Tories took Farages voters without losing who they are while locking out Farage himself.

    Trump is an extreme outsider who was never a Republican who has infiltrated and taken over the GOP.

    Both completely different and it's only superficial to compare the two.
    In UK terms Boris' vote is similar to Trump's vote, in 2019 Boris lost graduates heavily as did Trump in 2016 and 2020 and did poorly in London much as Trump also did poorly in NYC and California in 2016 and 2020.

    However it was Boris' inroads amongst the white working class that won him the 2019 election (plus facing Corbyn, the UK Bernie Sanders) much as it was Trump's inroads in white working class areas that won him the 2016 election.

    Trump was also a social liberal on issues like abortion and homosexuality, although he paid lip service to the evangelical right to win the GOP nomination. It was more immigration controls that he and Boris used to win white working class support plus promises of greater sovereignty in a globalist world
    The point is that Boris carried the core Tory party vote with him.

    I don't think Trump has done so - for if he had he would still be President
    Trump got just under 47% of the popular vote in 2020, even more than the 44% Boris got in 2019 and the same voteshare even as the combined Tory and Brexit Party vote.

    Only the divided liberal left in the UK ensured the Boris landslide
    Why are you describing the Labour Party as liberal, young HY? It is as authoritarian as the Conservative Party, or indeed the Green Party.
    The modern left thinks "liberal" means the same as "progressive", and use the terms interchangeably.
    That's true, they are used as synonyms for Good.

    Though with all the supposed classical liberals out there people on the right misuse terms too.
    You mean like "Boni"?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    isam said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Evening Standard reporting Carrie hired her wedding dress for £45

    It showed.
    That's just nasty. Give the girl a break. It was her wedding day..
    My gf, like almost all my mates not on twitter, saw the abuse under the photo of their wedding pics and just said “Why do people have to be so nasty? Haven’t they got anything better to do?”

    Twitter, and politics related social media, is so detached from the real world
    The demented level abuse is how they prove they are good people - to themselves.
    If there had been a wedding in Spinal Tap it would have looked exactly like that.

    But I hereby solemnly and irrevocably undertake to keep such thoughts to myself henceforward.
    I was brought up with the maxim that if you haven't got something nice to say about somebody then you shouldn't say anything at all.
    On that basis I will not be commenting on this.
    I got a bit of that growing up and sometimes my better angel remembers it.
    Then I think, fuck it.
    Is it telling that you said 'better angel', not 'good angel'?

    I read from this that you have two bad angels, one is just slightly less bad than the other.
    Presumably, given his desire to ‘fuck it,’ he meant, ‘better looking angel?’
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    All is revealed as to why the Tories want rid of Bob Roberts in Delyn.
    Possible second complainant if he won't resign.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57321468.amp

    That is actually a disturbing story. If he behaved towards her as she says, she should complain, regardless of his particular circumstances. If he didn’t, she shouldn’t be saying such things. But in neither case should she be talking to the media in a bid to pressure him to resign without making a formal complaint. That’s not on and actual undermines the credibility of the complaints process.

    The fact that procedures have been messed up so he hasn’t been removed is a different problem.
    Very true. It's been on the six o'clock news now though.
    The BBC have, to put it mildly, form when it comes to messing up allegations of sexual assault - both ways.
    Your final 2 words are apposite in this case.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419
    BigRich said:

    I think its SKS interview with Piears Morgan tonight?

    Any predictions?

    I won’t be watching it
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,988
    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    isam said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Evening Standard reporting Carrie hired her wedding dress for £45

    It showed.
    That's just nasty. Give the girl a break. It was her wedding day..
    My gf, like almost all my mates not on twitter, saw the abuse under the photo of their wedding pics and just said “Why do people have to be so nasty? Haven’t they got anything better to do?”

    Twitter, and politics related social media, is so detached from the real world
    The demented level abuse is how they prove they are good people - to themselves.
    If there had been a wedding in Spinal Tap it would have looked exactly like that.

    But I hereby solemnly and irrevocably undertake to keep such thoughts to myself henceforward.
    I was brought up with the maxim that if you haven't got something nice to say about somebody then you shouldn't say anything at all.
    On that basis I will not be commenting on this.
    I got a bit of that growing up and sometimes my better angel remembers it.
    Then I think, fuck it.
    Is it telling that you said 'better angel', not 'good angel'?

    I read from this that you have two bad angels, one is just slightly less bad than the other.
    I’m not a believer in perfection for sure!
    I was probably just being poncey as I think better angel has more historical and literary pedigree.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    All is revealed as to why the Tories want rid of Bob Roberts in Delyn.
    Possible second complainant if he won't resign.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57321468.amp

    That is actually a disturbing story. If he behaved towards her as she says, she should complain, regardless of his particular circumstances. If he didn’t, she shouldn’t be saying such things. But in neither case should she be talking to the media in a bid to pressure him to resign without making a formal complaint. That’s not on and actual undermines the credibility of the complaints process.

    The fact that procedures have been messed up so he hasn’t been removed is a different problem.
    Very true. It's been on the six o'clock news now though.
    The BBC have, to put it mildly, form when it comes to messing up allegations of sexual assault - both ways.
    Your final 2 words are apposite in this case.
    I meant in terms of publishing statements that were inappropriate and/or later turned out to be false as well as covering up large numbers of its stars being rapists and/or paedophiles.

    But I could perhaps have phrased it better.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    Now that he's married, Bozo can resume his favourite hobby.

    Adultery.

    Yes, interesting isn't it. It is like an employer who hires a serial job hopper in the belief they might be loyal on this occasion. It rarely works out.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,821
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Taz said:

    BigRich said:

    I think its SKS interview with Piears Morgan tonight?

    Any predictions?

    I won’t be watching it
    In my case that wouldn’t be a prediction, more a statement of fact.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,656
    HYUFD said:

    theakes said:

    But Trump could well be in Prison in November 2024!

    Did not stop Nelson Mandela becoming President a few years later, technically there is also nothing in the US constitution to prevent you running for and being elected President in jail
    There is I believe, something to do with the laws regarding felons not having the vote. Would prevent a prisoner from running in some key states.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    edited June 2021
    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285

    If there’s 1 death tomorrow, the media will be “100% increase in Covid deaths”

    By now you will have realised that when it comes to making careless mistakes most people assume stupidity rather than humour.
    It’s a form of Poe’s law I think.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Boris Johnson stands by his comments that there is nothing in the data to suggest a deviation from England’s reopening on 21 June, Downing Street has said, as scientists said the UK was facing a perilous moment.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    isam said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Evening Standard reporting Carrie hired her wedding dress for £45

    It showed.
    That's just nasty. Give the girl a break. It was her wedding day..
    My gf, like almost all my mates not on twitter, saw the abuse under the photo of their wedding pics and just said “Why do people have to be so nasty? Haven’t they got anything better to do?”

    Twitter, and politics related social media, is so detached from the real world
    The demented level abuse is how they prove they are good people - to themselves.
    If there had been a wedding in Spinal Tap it would have looked exactly like that.

    But I hereby solemnly and irrevocably undertake to keep such thoughts to myself henceforward.
    I was brought up with the maxim that if you haven't got something nice to say about somebody then you shouldn't say anything at all.
    On that basis I will not be commenting on this.
    I got a bit of that growing up and sometimes my better angel remembers it.
    Then I think, fuck it.
    Is it telling that you said 'better angel', not 'good angel'?

    I read from this that you have two bad angels, one is just slightly less bad than the other.
    Or he is quoting Lincoln?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    If there’s 1 death tomorrow, the media will be “100% increase in Covid deaths”

    Oops!

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,876

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Have you tried not having twitter, facebook and linkedin....would lower your blood pressure
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,202
    Cookie said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
    OK.

    My view is that money goes into Tether, the controllers of Tether use that to buy Bitcoin, and then at least some (and probably most) of that Bitcoin is sold. Simply those people who control Tether aren't complete idiots, and therefore won't want to be holding Bitcoin when the music stops. Bitcoin is used because it allows the controllers of Tether to appear to have crypto assets, but the reality is that those are (as at Bitfinex) looted pretty quickly.

  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    All is revealed as to why the Tories want rid of Bob Roberts in Delyn.
    Possible second complainant if he won't resign.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57321468.amp

    That is actually a disturbing story. If he behaved towards her as she says, she should complain, regardless of his particular circumstances. If he didn’t, she shouldn’t be saying such things. But in neither case should she be talking to the media in a bid to pressure him to resign without making a formal complaint. That’s not on and actual undermines the credibility of the complaints process.

    The fact that procedures have been messed up so he hasn’t been removed is a different problem.
    I just don’t get why she’d go to the BBC with the story rather than complain to the relevant authorities. A formal complaint is surely the right way ahead and it simply gives him the ability to query her motives.

    I hope she does make an official complaint. Behaviour like that is inexcusable.

    By not complaining it also does a disservice to anyone else in that position in future.

  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    BigRich said:

    I think its SKS interview with Piears Morgan tonight?

    Any predictions?

    I won’t be watching it
    In my case that wouldn’t be a prediction, more a statement of fact.
    Don’t mind watching SKS. Problem is in this case you get having to watch Morgan as part of the deal.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    IanB2 said:

    If there’s 1 death tomorrow, the media will be “100% increase in Covid deaths”

    Oops!

    TBF, that probably is what the media and Indie Sage would say.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285

    Now that he's married, Bozo can resume his favourite hobby.

    Adultery.

    Yes, interesting isn't it. It is like an employer who hires a serial job hopper in the belief they might be loyal on this occasion. It rarely works out.
    He is the first PM to get married on office for a while: what are the odds he lasts long enough to be the first one to get divorced?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,821
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
    OK.

    My view is that money goes into Tether, the controllers of Tether use that to buy Bitcoin, and then at least some (and probably most) of that Bitcoin is sold. Simply those people who control Tether aren't complete idiots, and therefore won't want to be holding Bitcoin when the music stops. Bitcoin is used because it allows the controllers of Tether to appear to have crypto assets, but the reality is that those are (as at Bitfinex) looted pretty quickly.

    Thanks. So it sounds like the only losers will be those holding Tether (if one 'holds' Tether)?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,595

    Now that he's married, Bozo can resume his favourite hobby.

    Adultery.

    Yes, interesting isn't it. It is like an employer who hires a serial job hopper in the belief they might be loyal on this occasion. It rarely works out.
    He is the first PM to get married on office for a while: what are the odds he lasts long enough to be the first one to get divorced?
    He’s done that already! (Get divorced, that is).
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    IanB2 said:

    If there’s 1 death tomorrow, the media will be “100% increase in Covid deaths”

    Oops!

    It’ll be above exponential
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,237
    edited June 2021

    Now that he's married, Bozo can resume his favourite hobby.

    Adultery.

    Yes, interesting isn't it. It is like an employer who hires a serial job hopper in the belief they might be loyal on this occasion. It rarely works out.
    He is the first PM to get married on office for a while: what are the odds he lasts long enough to be the first one to get divorced?
    He's already done that, hasn't he? Wasn't his lack of attention in February 2020 allegedly due to finalising the decree whatsit with Marina?

    But a "which lasts longer- PMship or Carrie?" would be a grimly fascinating bet.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    Cookie said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
    Given Bitcoin’s carbon footprint is something like 0.25% of the US’s (i.e. huge) the sooner it crashes the better.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585
    edited June 2021

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    It is very OTT in my opinion. Thankfully I don't use social media much.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,595

    Cookie said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
    Given Bitcoin’s carbon footprint is something like 0.25% of the US’s (i.e. huge) the sooner it crashes the better.
    The latest estimate of Bitcoin electricity usage was 129TWh/year, which is more than 85% of countries.

    The crash is going to be spectacular to watch from a distance.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
    OK.

    My view is that money goes into Tether, the controllers of Tether use that to buy Bitcoin, and then at least some (and probably most) of that Bitcoin is sold. Simply those people who control Tether aren't complete idiots, and therefore won't want to be holding Bitcoin when the music stops. Bitcoin is used because it allows the controllers of Tether to appear to have crypto assets, but the reality is that those are (as at Bitfinex) looted pretty quickly.

    Thanks. So it sounds like the only losers will be those holding Tether (if one 'holds' Tether)?
    No, everyone else holding Crypto is also screwed. Because Crypto is majoritarily transacted in Tethers.

    Once the balloon goes up and no one wants to hold Tethers the Crypto holders will try to transact in actual USD and discover there are no USD buyers compared to Tether purchasers.

    Crypto prices tank.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Now that he's married, Bozo can resume his favourite hobby.

    Adultery.

    Yes, interesting isn't it. It is like an employer who hires a serial job hopper in the belief they might be loyal on this occasion. It rarely works out.
    He is the first PM to get married on office for a while: what are the odds he lasts long enough to be the first one to get divorced?
    On a quick look through, I think he’s the first PM to get married while in office since the 2nd Earl of Liverpool in 1822. That was a second marriage, albeit following the death of his first wife.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,796

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    I think that for most people it just washes over them. I don't mind them doing it, I don't care one way or another, and I never noticed till you said. Don't let it wind you up.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    If there’s 1 death tomorrow, the media will be “100% increase in Covid deaths”

    Oops!

    TBF, that probably is what the media and Indie Sage would say.
    Worldmeter does display data like this: I noticed an increase of 0 to 7 in one country’s data was given as a 700% increase.

    It is probably a fudge to prevent ‘divide by zero’ errors in the spreadsheet.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
    OK.

    My view is that money goes into Tether, the controllers of Tether use that to buy Bitcoin, and then at least some (and probably most) of that Bitcoin is sold. Simply those people who control Tether aren't complete idiots, and therefore won't want to be holding Bitcoin when the music stops. Bitcoin is used because it allows the controllers of Tether to appear to have crypto assets, but the reality is that those are (as at Bitfinex) looted pretty quickly.

    Thanks. So it sounds like the only losers will be those holding Tether (if one 'holds' Tether)?
    No, everyone else holding Crypto is also screwed. Because Crypto is majoritarily transacted in Tethers.

    Once the balloon goes up and no one wants to hold Tethers the Crypto holders will try to transact in actual USD and discover there are no USD buyers compared to Tether purchasers.

    Crypto prices tank.
    There are so many reasons to expect an imminent crash, yet meantime prices continue to rise. Nervous times for investors, indeed.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,889
    Evening all :)

    As there's not much going on in the UK, a couple of bits of Euro polling tonight.

    Starting in Austria:

    ÖVP-EPP: 29% (-8)
    SPÖ-S&D: 28% (+7)
    FPÖ-ID: 20% (+4)
    NEOS-RE: 11% (+3)
    GRÜNE-G/EFA: 10% (-4)

    Changes since last election in 2019.

    The worst poll numbers for Kurz's OVP for quite a while and better numbers for both the SPO and the FPO but there's a long way to go yet.

    Off to Norway where they are due to vote on September 13th and the current Norstat poll with changes from the last election:

    Social Democrats: 25% (-2)
    Conservative Party: 23% (-2)
    Farmers Party: 16% (+6)
    Progress Party: 11% (-4)
    Socialist Left Party: 8% (+2)
    Green Party: 5% (+2)
    Red Party: 4% (+1.5)
    Venstre Party: 3% (-1)
    Christian People's Party: 3% (-1)

    The ruling coalition of Conservative, Venstre and Christian People's Party is down four points from last time and it's possible the Social Democrats and Farmers will be able to form a new Government on these numbers.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
    Given Bitcoin’s carbon footprint is something like 0.25% of the US’s (i.e. huge) the sooner it crashes the better.
    The latest estimate of Bitcoin electricity usage was 129TWh/year, which is more than 85% of countries.

    The crash is going to be spectacular to watch from a distance.
    When would it be likely ?

    I invest, a small amount, via SIPP and S&S ISA but avoid stuff like Bitcoin, Ethereum, Ripple and the rest. I just don’t get them and when my Facebook and twitter feed was regularly full of scams concerning them it just made me incredibly wary. I like to invest in stuff I understand. I don’t understand these and I don’t understand NFTs
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited June 2021

    HYUFD said:

    theakes said:

    But Trump could well be in Prison in November 2024!

    Did not stop Nelson Mandela becoming President a few years later, technically there is also nothing in the US constitution to prevent you running for and being elected President in jail
    There is I believe, something to do with the laws regarding felons not having the vote. Would prevent a prisoner from running in some key states.
    "Would prevent a prisoner from running in some key states."

    Believe you need to do more (or some) legal research on this point, because I'm pretty sure you are in error re: presidential candidates.

    Note my own avatar. Which is copy of campaign button from 1920 for Socialist Party candidate Eugene V. Debs - who was nominated from his cell in the Atlanta Federal Prison, after his conviction for sedition (for speaking out against conscription) in 1918.

    "For President - Convict No. 9653"

    In that election, Debs was credited with votes cast in all but 5 out of 48 states, winning a total of 915,490 (3.4%) out of just over 7 million cast.

    EDIT - My point (or part of it) is that while Gene Debs would have been ineligible to vote in many states on account of his criminal conviction (including IIRC his home state of Indiana) he was NOT banned from the presidential ballot in most (or perhaps any) state on this basis.



  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,919
    BigRich said:

    I think its SKS interview with Piears Morgan tonight?

    Any predictions?

    1. PB Tories will tell us voters won't care.
    2. Voters won't care.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Don't be such a snowflake getting triggered by everything. Next you'll be wanting this cancelled.

    The LBTQI+ community have faced so much bigotry, including in our lifetimes.

    Just remember you and I have lived in a period where homosexuality wasn't decriminalised in Scotland and Norn Iron until the early 80s.

    It is a reminder of the progress made and not to take things for granted.
    It’s cynical reputation washing in many cases though.

    It doesn’t bother me, I have to say, it just makes me chuckle.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,237
    IanB2 said:

    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
    OK.

    My view is that money goes into Tether, the controllers of Tether use that to buy Bitcoin, and then at least some (and probably most) of that Bitcoin is sold. Simply those people who control Tether aren't complete idiots, and therefore won't want to be holding Bitcoin when the music stops. Bitcoin is used because it allows the controllers of Tether to appear to have crypto assets, but the reality is that those are (as at Bitfinex) looted pretty quickly.

    Thanks. So it sounds like the only losers will be those holding Tether (if one 'holds' Tether)?
    No, everyone else holding Crypto is also screwed. Because Crypto is majoritarily transacted in Tethers.

    Once the balloon goes up and no one wants to hold Tethers the Crypto holders will try to transact in actual USD and discover there are no USD buyers compared to Tether purchasers.

    Crypto prices tank.
    There are so many reasons to expect an imminent crash, yet meantime prices continue to rise. Nervous times for investors, indeed.
    Markets, like other manifestations of public opinion, can stay irrational for a surprisingly long time.

    But not forever; eventually voting machines turn into weighing machines.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,202

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    I haven't seen it on anything: it is presumably a UK thing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,080
    edited June 2021
    IanB2 said:

    If there’s 1 death tomorrow, the media will be “100% increase in Covid deaths”

    Oops!

    No oops....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Pagan2 said:

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Have you tried not having twitter, facebook and linkedin....would lower your blood pressure
    Yes, but everyone has those.

    And even if you don't there's all the apps.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585
    edited June 2021

    Pagan2 said:

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Have you tried not having twitter, facebook and linkedin....would lower your blood pressure
    Yes, but everyone has those.

    And even if you don't there's all the apps.
    No need to use any of them. I wish more people wouldn't.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,656

    HYUFD said:

    theakes said:

    But Trump could well be in Prison in November 2024!

    Did not stop Nelson Mandela becoming President a few years later, technically there is also nothing in the US constitution to prevent you running for and being elected President in jail
    There is I believe, something to do with the laws regarding felons not having the vote. Would prevent a prisoner from running in some key states.
    "Would prevent a prisoner from running in some key states."

    Believe you need to do more (or some) legal research on this point, because I'm pretty sure you are in error re: presidential candidates.

    Note my own avatar. Which is copy of campaign button from 1920 for Socialist Party candidate Eugene V. Debs - who was nominated from his cell in the Atlanta Federal Prison, after his conviction for sedition (for speaking out against conscription) in 1918.

    "For President - Convict No. 9653"

    In that election, Debs was credited with votes cast in all but 5 out of 48 states, winning a total of 915,490 (3.4%) out of just over 7 million cast.

    EDIT - My point (or part of it) is that while Gene Debs would have been ineligible to vote in many states on account of his criminal conviction (including IIRC his home state of Indiana) he was NOT banned from the presidential ballot in most (or perhaps any) state on this basis.



    I'll dig out, but I think The Sunday Times did a piece on it, it explains why Trump chose Florida as his state, as opposed to New York for 2020.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited June 2021

    ...
    I was probably just being poncey as I think better angel has more historical and literary pedigree.

    It most certainly does, one of Shakespeare's most remarkable sonnets:

    Two loves I have of comfort and despair,
    Which like two spirits do suggest me still
    The better angel is a man right fair,
    The worser spirit a woman coloured ill.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Don't be such a snowflake getting triggered by everything. Next you'll be wanting this cancelled.

    The LBTQI+ community have faced so much bigotry, including in our lifetimes.

    Just remember you and I have lived in a period where homosexuality wasn't decriminalised in Scotland and Norn Iron until the early 80s.

    It is a reminder of the progress made and not to take things for granted.
    Missing the point. Predictable. So so predictable from you. Disappointing.

    We now have a LGBT+ history month in February and a whole month (in fact, it was over 6 weeks last year) - something like a sixth of the whole year.

    There are absolutely no boundaries to it (and nor can there be, for the reasons you describe) so it just goes on and on until it's utterly omnipresent and meaningless but also preached at to you every night and day.

    Pride should be confined to a weekend, as it used to be, which would make it more powerful, meaningful and fun. Hell, I'd even join in.

    But as things are now? No. This relentless Wokery needs to end.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited June 2021
    IanB2 said:

    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
    OK.

    My view is that money goes into Tether, the controllers of Tether use that to buy Bitcoin, and then at least some (and probably most) of that Bitcoin is sold. Simply those people who control Tether aren't complete idiots, and therefore won't want to be holding Bitcoin when the music stops. Bitcoin is used because it allows the controllers of Tether to appear to have crypto assets, but the reality is that those are (as at Bitfinex) looted pretty quickly.

    Thanks. So it sounds like the only losers will be those holding Tether (if one 'holds' Tether)?
    No, everyone else holding Crypto is also screwed. Because Crypto is majoritarily transacted in Tethers.

    Once the balloon goes up and no one wants to hold Tethers the Crypto holders will try to transact in actual USD and discover there are no USD buyers compared to Tether purchasers.

    Crypto prices tank.
    There are so many reasons to expect an imminent crash, yet meantime prices continue to rise. Nervous times for investors, indeed.
    Bitcoin price has fallen 40% in the last month.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,595
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
    Given Bitcoin’s carbon footprint is something like 0.25% of the US’s (i.e. huge) the sooner it crashes the better.
    The latest estimate of Bitcoin electricity usage was 129TWh/year, which is more than 85% of countries.

    The crash is going to be spectacular to watch from a distance.
    When would it be likely ?

    I invest, a small amount, via SIPP and S&S ISA but avoid stuff like Bitcoin, Ethereum, Ripple and the rest. I just don’t get them and when my Facebook and twitter feed was regularly full of scams concerning them it just made me incredibly wary. I like to invest in stuff I understand. I don’t understand these and I don’t understand NFTs
    My investments are basic market trackers, which will slowly appreciate over the medium term and reinvest dividends.

    If we knew when the Bitcoin crash was going to happen, we could all be very rich indeed! Yes, almost everything you see in an advert about Bitcoin is a scam of one sort or another.

    NFTs are simply digital receipts or certificates, that enable the sale of digital IP - except that a lot of them are hosted by companies that could go bust, or fail to pay their hosting bills, leaving you with nothing.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    kjh said:

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    I think that for most people it just washes over them. I don't mind them doing it, I don't care one way or another, and I never noticed till you said. Don't let it wind you up.
    I don't think that's true. I think a lot of people get just as annoyed by it as I do - including non heterosexuals - but they just don't say anything.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,947
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
    Given Bitcoin’s carbon footprint is something like 0.25% of the US’s (i.e. huge) the sooner it crashes the better.
    The latest estimate of Bitcoin electricity usage was 129TWh/year, which is more than 85% of countries.

    The crash is going to be spectacular to watch from a distance.
    When would it be likely ?

    I invest, a small amount, via SIPP and S&S ISA but avoid stuff like Bitcoin, Ethereum, Ripple and the rest. I just don’t get them and when my Facebook and twitter feed was regularly full of scams concerning them it just made me incredibly wary. I like to invest in stuff I understand. I don’t understand these and I don’t understand NFTs
    Most of the points raised above are refuted, or at the very least, countered, at https://endthefud.org/

    The energy stuff is a complete nonsense, bitcoin actually incentivises clean energy usage because clean energy produces too much energy when demand is low and not enough when it's high. Since most of that energy can't be stored, it's wasted - raising overall unit cost. As Bitcoin is on 24/7, bitcoin creates a market for that surplus clean energy, thus incentivising more production of clean energy as there is an increased market for it.

    As far as tether goes, people have been saying it's going to collapse for years - surprise surprise, it hasn't. And even if it did, it represents about 4% of the total crypto market cap, scammier coins like bitconnect have collapsed without crashing the entire crypto market.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    As there's not much going on in the UK, a couple of bits of Euro polling tonight.

    Starting in Austria:

    ÖVP-EPP: 29% (-8)
    SPÖ-S&D: 28% (+7)
    FPÖ-ID: 20% (+4)
    NEOS-RE: 11% (+3)
    GRÜNE-G/EFA: 10% (-4)

    Changes since last election in 2019.

    The worst poll numbers for Kurz's OVP for quite a while and better numbers for both the SPO and the FPO but there's a long way to go yet.

    Off to Norway where they are due to vote on September 13th and the current Norstat poll with changes from the last election:

    Social Democrats: 25% (-2)
    Conservative Party: 23% (-2)
    Farmers Party: 16% (+6)
    Progress Party: 11% (-4)
    Socialist Left Party: 8% (+2)
    Green Party: 5% (+2)
    Red Party: 4% (+1.5)
    Venstre Party: 3% (-1)
    Christian People's Party: 3% (-1)

    The ruling coalition of Conservative, Venstre and Christian People's Party is down four points from last time and it's possible the Social Democrats and Farmers will be able to form a new Government on these numbers.

    I very much appreciate these snippets from the continent, thank you.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
    Given Bitcoin’s carbon footprint is something like 0.25% of the US’s (i.e. huge) the sooner it crashes the better.
    The latest estimate of Bitcoin electricity usage was 129TWh/year, which is more than 85% of countries.

    The crash is going to be spectacular to watch from a distance.
    When would it be likely ?

    I invest, a small amount, via SIPP and S&S ISA but avoid stuff like Bitcoin, Ethereum, Ripple and the rest. I just don’t get them and when my Facebook and twitter feed was regularly full of scams concerning them it just made me incredibly wary. I like to invest in stuff I understand. I don’t understand these and I don’t understand NFTs
    I think not investing in something you don’t understand is remarkably good advice.
    On that basis none of us would be walking round with any cash.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,656

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Don't be such a snowflake getting triggered by everything. Next you'll be wanting this cancelled.

    The LBTQI+ community have faced so much bigotry, including in our lifetimes.

    Just remember you and I have lived in a period where homosexuality wasn't decriminalised in Scotland and Norn Iron until the early 80s.

    It is a reminder of the progress made and not to take things for granted.
    Missing the point. Predictable. So so predictable from you. Disappointing.

    We now have a LGBT+ history month in February and a whole month (in fact, it was over 6 weeks last year) - something like a sixth of the whole year.

    There are absolutely no boundaries to it (and nor can there be, for the reasons you describe) so it just goes on and on until it's utterly omnipresent and meaningless but also preached at to you every night and day.

    Pride should be confined to a weekend, as it used to be, which would make it more powerful, meaningful and fun. Hell, I'd even join in.

    But as things are now? No. This relentless Wokery needs to end.
    You're transforming into Laurence Fox.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:



    OK.

    If you don't have official lockdowns, you still have lockdowns. They're just unofficial ones that happen when everyone is utterly terrified to go out.

    You have a series of waves that come and go, as people get scared of the virus and stay home. So the choice is not between zero years locked down and 66 million, it's between "n" and 66 million.

    Plus there's the fact that without restrctions, we would probably have had higher peaks, and we might have actually seem the health service overloaded, leading to situtations like happened in New York or Milan early last year (or Manaus). And when you have those kind of peaks, you're not killing off people with just 10 years to go, you are killing off those with 20 or 30 or 40.

    If you want to see just how bad excess deaths can go, look at Ecuador: they have been running at deaths 3x the normal level. Three times. We've been at 20-30% above normal levels for the last year.

    Without restrictions, we would still have lost decades of peoples' lives to lockdowns, and we would have had much higher death tolls.

    Now, should we have opened up much quicker? Damn right we should. But the idea that "no restrictions" is milk and honey is for the birds.

    Yes to the illusion of lockdown free paradise. I'm also aware of rather a lot of people who have had quite a decent year, and some who quietly say they've really preferred it (mostly people who have seen far more of their young kids and much less commuting) but in view of the horrors that so many have experienced are shy of saying it.
    Indeed I am one of those. Lockdowns has signalled the end of the office for me and allowed me the freedom to move home and actually be close to family instead of seeing the once or twice a year which has been the case for the last 33 years. You also can't, i would argue, multiply 66 million by a year to calculate lost time. A lot of those 66 million would have spent 4 or 5 nights a week sat on the sofa watching tv in any case. I doubt many but the young have 7 day a week of "Wow what a brilliant day" and for most of us many days of the week aren't much different to lockdown
    Sorry to post without introduction. But I am a lockdown winner. My property has gone up by at least £100k, and these price rises show no signs of slowing. I have a whole host of new employment opportunities as the acceptance of remote working means that I can take jobs in London without the daily supercommute. We got to spend a lot of time in the garden and save a lot money. At worst the restrictions were a bit annoying. All this would be fine but for the civilisation ending woke cultural revolution that has come with it. Everyone has their own opinion on this, but in my case I am seriously looking at emigration.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    ydoethur said:

    Now that he's married, Bozo can resume his favourite hobby.

    Adultery.

    Yes, interesting isn't it. It is like an employer who hires a serial job hopper in the belief they might be loyal on this occasion. It rarely works out.
    He is the first PM to get married on office for a while: what are the odds he lasts long enough to be the first one to get divorced?
    On a quick look through, I think he’s the first PM to get married while in office since the 2nd Earl of Liverpool in 1822. That was a second marriage, albeit following the death of his first wife.
    So Boris Johnson is first PM to celebrate his third marriage in office?

    Re: martial bliss (or otherwise) he's now in same hat-trick league as his Putinist doppelganger POTUS 45.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,202
    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
    OK.

    My view is that money goes into Tether, the controllers of Tether use that to buy Bitcoin, and then at least some (and probably most) of that Bitcoin is sold. Simply those people who control Tether aren't complete idiots, and therefore won't want to be holding Bitcoin when the music stops. Bitcoin is used because it allows the controllers of Tether to appear to have crypto assets, but the reality is that those are (as at Bitfinex) looted pretty quickly.

    Thanks. So it sounds like the only losers will be those holding Tether (if one 'holds' Tether)?
    No, everyone else holding Crypto is also screwed. Because Crypto is majoritarily transacted in Tethers.

    Once the balloon goes up and no one wants to hold Tethers the Crypto holders will try to transact in actual USD and discover there are no USD buyers compared to Tether purchasers.

    Crypto prices tank.
    While crypto prices will inevitably tank, I think Bitcoin (and Monero and Ethereum) will survive in the long run, and if Lightning takes off, then that really solves the transaction volume issue and collapses transaction costs (and times) in the longer term. If I can buy BTC below about $3-5,000, I would.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,876

    Pagan2 said:

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Have you tried not having twitter, facebook and linkedin....would lower your blood pressure
    Yes, but everyone has those.

    And even if you don't there's all the apps.
    Dont need those either
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,202

    Cookie said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
    Given Bitcoin’s carbon footprint is something like 0.25% of the US’s (i.e. huge) the sooner it crashes the better.
    Something's got to keep demand for coal mined electricity up!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,200
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Evening Standard reporting Carrie hired her wedding dress for £45

    It showed.
    That's just nasty. Give the girl a break. It was her wedding day..
    My gf, like almost all my mates not on twitter, saw the abuse under the photo of their wedding pics and just said “Why do people have to be so nasty? Haven’t they got anything better to do?”

    Twitter, and politics related social media, is so detached from the real world
    The demented level abuse is how they prove they are good people - to themselves.
    Except when it’s Diane Abbott because it barely exists and is all about her counting abilities anyway.
    Yep. The jokes and memes about "stupid" Diane from white, middle aged blokes who haven't got a racist or sexist bone in their body are because of all the stupid things she says. 🆗
    If they say the same things about Richard Burgon, how does that work?
    You tell me.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Don't be such a snowflake getting triggered by everything. Next you'll be wanting this cancelled.

    The LBTQI+ community have faced so much bigotry, including in our lifetimes.

    Just remember you and I have lived in a period where homosexuality wasn't decriminalised in Scotland and Norn Iron until the early 80s.

    It is a reminder of the progress made and not to take things for granted.
    Missing the point. Predictable. So so predictable from you. Disappointing.

    We now have a LGBT+ history month in February and a whole month (in fact, it was over 6 weeks last year) - something like a sixth of the whole year.

    There are absolutely no boundaries to it (and nor can there be, for the reasons you describe) so it just goes on and on until it's utterly omnipresent and meaningless but also preached at to you every night and day.

    Pride should be confined to a weekend, as it used to be, which would make it more powerful, meaningful and fun. Hell, I'd even join in.

    But as things are now? No. This relentless Wokery needs to end.
    You're transforming into Laurence Fox.
    No, because I've also criticised the equivalent on Poppies and Captain Tom. And I'm not an anti-vaxxer either.

    I might not be with the bandwagon spirit of the age - and I'm happy to be laughed at and ridiculed as a result - but my point of view is a reasonable and coherent one.

    I think I'm the sane one.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
    Given Bitcoin’s carbon footprint is something like 0.25% of the US’s (i.e. huge) the sooner it crashes the better.
    The latest estimate of Bitcoin electricity usage was 129TWh/year, which is more than 85% of countries.

    The crash is going to be spectacular to watch from a distance.
    When would it be likely ?

    I invest, a small amount, via SIPP and S&S ISA but avoid stuff like Bitcoin, Ethereum, Ripple and the rest. I just don’t get them and when my Facebook and twitter feed was regularly full of scams concerning them it just made me incredibly wary. I like to invest in stuff I understand. I don’t understand these and I don’t understand NFTs
    I think not investing in something you don’t understand is remarkably good advice.
    On that basis none of us would be walking round with any cash.
    Fair point...
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,388
    edited June 2021
    darkage said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:



    OK.

    If you don't have official lockdowns, you still have lockdowns. They're just unofficial ones that happen when everyone is utterly terrified to go out.

    You have a series of waves that come and go, as people get scared of the virus and stay home. So the choice is not between zero years locked down and 66 million, it's between "n" and 66 million.

    Plus there's the fact that without restrctions, we would probably have had higher peaks, and we might have actually seem the health service overloaded, leading to situtations like happened in New York or Milan early last year (or Manaus). And when you have those kind of peaks, you're not killing off people with just 10 years to go, you are killing off those with 20 or 30 or 40.

    If you want to see just how bad excess deaths can go, look at Ecuador: they have been running at deaths 3x the normal level. Three times. We've been at 20-30% above normal levels for the last year.

    Without restrictions, we would still have lost decades of peoples' lives to lockdowns, and we would have had much higher death tolls.

    Now, should we have opened up much quicker? Damn right we should. But the idea that "no restrictions" is milk and honey is for the birds.

    Yes to the illusion of lockdown free paradise. I'm also aware of rather a lot of people who have had quite a decent year, and some who quietly say they've really preferred it (mostly people who have seen far more of their young kids and much less commuting) but in view of the horrors that so many have experienced are shy of saying it.
    Indeed I am one of those. Lockdowns has signalled the end of the office for me and allowed me the freedom to move home and actually be close to family instead of seeing the once or twice a year which has been the case for the last 33 years. You also can't, i would argue, multiply 66 million by a year to calculate lost time. A lot of those 66 million would have spent 4 or 5 nights a week sat on the sofa watching tv in any case. I doubt many but the young have 7 day a week of "Wow what a brilliant day" and for most of us many days of the week aren't much different to lockdown
    Sorry to post without introduction. But I am a lockdown winner. My property has gone up by at least £100k, and these price rises show no signs of slowing. I have a whole host of new employment opportunities as the acceptance of remote working means that I can take jobs in London without the daily supercommute. We got to spend a lot of time in the garden and save a lot money. At worst the restrictions were a bit annoying. All this would be fine but for the civilisation ending woke cultural revolution that has come with it. Everyone has their own opinion on this, but in my case I am seriously looking at emigration.
    Welcome 'darkage'. Sounds like you have a great life. Just out of curiosity, how has this "civilisation ending woke cultural revolution" had such an impact on that good life that you're considering emigrating?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    HYUFD said:

    theakes said:

    But Trump could well be in Prison in November 2024!

    Did not stop Nelson Mandela becoming President a few years later, technically there is also nothing in the US constitution to prevent you running for and being elected President in jail
    There is I believe, something to do with the laws regarding felons not having the vote. Would prevent a prisoner from running in some key states.
    "Would prevent a prisoner from running in some key states."

    Believe you need to do more (or some) legal research on this point, because I'm pretty sure you are in error re: presidential candidates.

    Note my own avatar. Which is copy of campaign button from 1920 for Socialist Party candidate Eugene V. Debs - who was nominated from his cell in the Atlanta Federal Prison, after his conviction for sedition (for speaking out against conscription) in 1918.

    "For President - Convict No. 9653"

    In that election, Debs was credited with votes cast in all but 5 out of 48 states, winning a total of 915,490 (3.4%) out of just over 7 million cast.

    EDIT - My point (or part of it) is that while Gene Debs would have been ineligible to vote in many states on account of his criminal conviction (including IIRC his home state of Indiana) he was NOT banned from the presidential ballot in most (or perhaps any) state on this basis.



    I'll dig out, but I think The Sunday Times did a piece on it, it explains why Trump chose Florida as his state, as opposed to New York for 2020.
    Haven't seen ST piece, but seriously doubt Trumpsky switched states so he could be on the presidential ballot even if convicted prior to 2024. Other more pressing considerations, including current legal jeopardy in New York, plus wanting to win Florida in 2020, which he did.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,202
    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
    OK.

    My view is that money goes into Tether, the controllers of Tether use that to buy Bitcoin, and then at least some (and probably most) of that Bitcoin is sold. Simply those people who control Tether aren't complete idiots, and therefore won't want to be holding Bitcoin when the music stops. Bitcoin is used because it allows the controllers of Tether to appear to have crypto assets, but the reality is that those are (as at Bitfinex) looted pretty quickly.

    Thanks. So it sounds like the only losers will be those holding Tether (if one 'holds' Tether)?
    No, everyone else holding Crypto is also screwed. Because Crypto is majoritarily transacted in Tethers.

    Once the balloon goes up and no one wants to hold Tethers the Crypto holders will try to transact in actual USD and discover there are no USD buyers compared to Tether purchasers.

    Crypto prices tank.
    I think all crypto except Ethereum, Bitcoin and (possibly) Monero is worthless*. There is no utility to any of the secondary coins.

    Bitcoin is different because it is the first, and the original.

    Ethereum is different because the blockchain is also used to run (semi) arbitrary code.

    Monero is (maybe) different because it's designed for anonymity, and that has a value to some people.

    * Also, maybe BAT
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,388

    ydoethur said:

    Now that he's married, Bozo can resume his favourite hobby.

    Adultery.

    Yes, interesting isn't it. It is like an employer who hires a serial job hopper in the belief they might be loyal on this occasion. It rarely works out.
    He is the first PM to get married on office for a while: what are the odds he lasts long enough to be the first one to get divorced?
    On a quick look through, I think he’s the first PM to get married while in office since the 2nd Earl of Liverpool in 1822. That was a second marriage, albeit following the death of his first wife.
    So Boris Johnson is first PM to celebrate his third marriage in office?

    Re: martial bliss (or otherwise) he's now in same hat-trick league as his Putinist doppelganger POTUS 45.
    Martial bliss? You mean they're at war already? That didn't last long.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,200

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Evening Standard reporting Carrie hired her wedding dress for £45

    It showed.
    That's just nasty. Give the girl a break. It was her wedding day..
    My gf, like almost all my mates not on twitter, saw the abuse under the photo of their wedding pics and just said “Why do people have to be so nasty? Haven’t they got anything better to do?”

    Twitter, and politics related social media, is so detached from the real world
    The demented level abuse is how they prove they are good people - to themselves.
    Except when it’s Diane Abbott because it barely exists and is all about her counting abilities anyway.
    Yep. The jokes and memes about "stupid" Diane from white, middle aged blokes who haven't got a racist or sexist bone in their body are because of all the stupid things she says. 🆗
    You never told us whether you stand by your earlier contention that she gets "by far the most (and the most visceral and personal) abuse of any MP in the country".
    Why should I say things twice?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Pagan2 said:

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Have you tried not having twitter, facebook and linkedin....would lower your blood pressure
    Yes, but everyone has those.

    And even if you don't there's all the apps.
    You can actually survive without these websites, I quit them 3 months ago and nothing is any different.

    You think you are missing out but you aren't, because you only saw a meaningless fraction of what is going on in the world anyway. You get more time to think without being in a constant state of doom and panic.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
    OK.

    My view is that money goes into Tether, the controllers of Tether use that to buy Bitcoin, and then at least some (and probably most) of that Bitcoin is sold. Simply those people who control Tether aren't complete idiots, and therefore won't want to be holding Bitcoin when the music stops. Bitcoin is used because it allows the controllers of Tether to appear to have crypto assets, but the reality is that those are (as at Bitfinex) looted pretty quickly.

    Thanks. So it sounds like the only losers will be those holding Tether (if one 'holds' Tether)?
    No, everyone else holding Crypto is also screwed. Because Crypto is majoritarily transacted in Tethers.

    Once the balloon goes up and no one wants to hold Tethers the Crypto holders will try to transact in actual USD and discover there are no USD buyers compared to Tether purchasers.

    Crypto prices tank.
    I think all crypto except Ethereum, Bitcoin and (possibly) Monero is worthless*. There is no utility to any of the secondary coins.

    Bitcoin is different because it is the first, and the original.

    Ethereum is different because the blockchain is also used to run (semi) arbitrary code.

    Monero is (maybe) different because it's designed for anonymity, and that has a value to some people.

    * Also, maybe BAT
    I've got a DB mate who keeps suggesting new forms of crypto as the latest wave to ride, whilst sledging gold as being sold by boomers for boomers.

    I'm not convinced by either. So I stick to my politicalbetting and low-cost Vanguard fund trackers.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902

    darkage said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:



    OK.

    If you don't have official lockdowns, you still have lockdowns. They're just unofficial ones that happen when everyone is utterly terrified to go out.

    You have a series of waves that come and go, as people get scared of the virus and stay home. So the choice is not between zero years locked down and 66 million, it's between "n" and 66 million.

    Plus there's the fact that without restrctions, we would probably have had higher peaks, and we might have actually seem the health service overloaded, leading to situtations like happened in New York or Milan early last year (or Manaus). And when you have those kind of peaks, you're not killing off people with just 10 years to go, you are killing off those with 20 or 30 or 40.

    If you want to see just how bad excess deaths can go, look at Ecuador: they have been running at deaths 3x the normal level. Three times. We've been at 20-30% above normal levels for the last year.

    Without restrictions, we would still have lost decades of peoples' lives to lockdowns, and we would have had much higher death tolls.

    Now, should we have opened up much quicker? Damn right we should. But the idea that "no restrictions" is milk and honey is for the birds.

    Yes to the illusion of lockdown free paradise. I'm also aware of rather a lot of people who have had quite a decent year, and some who quietly say they've really preferred it (mostly people who have seen far more of their young kids and much less commuting) but in view of the horrors that so many have experienced are shy of saying it.
    Indeed I am one of those. Lockdowns has signalled the end of the office for me and allowed me the freedom to move home and actually be close to family instead of seeing the once or twice a year which has been the case for the last 33 years. You also can't, i would argue, multiply 66 million by a year to calculate lost time. A lot of those 66 million would have spent 4 or 5 nights a week sat on the sofa watching tv in any case. I doubt many but the young have 7 day a week of "Wow what a brilliant day" and for most of us many days of the week aren't much different to lockdown
    Sorry to post without introduction. But I am a lockdown winner. My property has gone up by at least £100k, and these price rises show no signs of slowing. I have a whole host of new employment opportunities as the acceptance of remote working means that I can take jobs in London without the daily supercommute. We got to spend a lot of time in the garden and save a lot money. At worst the restrictions were a bit annoying. All this would be fine but for the civilisation ending woke cultural revolution that has come with it. Everyone has their own opinion on this, but in my case I am seriously looking at emigration.
    Welcome 'darkage'. Sounds like you have a great life. Just out of curiosity, how has this "civilisation ending woke cultural revolution" had such an impact on that good life that you're considering emigrating?
    Because he can live anywhere now and work remotely?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,656

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Don't be such a snowflake getting triggered by everything. Next you'll be wanting this cancelled.

    The LBTQI+ community have faced so much bigotry, including in our lifetimes.

    Just remember you and I have lived in a period where homosexuality wasn't decriminalised in Scotland and Norn Iron until the early 80s.

    It is a reminder of the progress made and not to take things for granted.
    Missing the point. Predictable. So so predictable from you. Disappointing.

    We now have a LGBT+ history month in February and a whole month (in fact, it was over 6 weeks last year) - something like a sixth of the whole year.

    There are absolutely no boundaries to it (and nor can there be, for the reasons you describe) so it just goes on and on until it's utterly omnipresent and meaningless but also preached at to you every night and day.

    Pride should be confined to a weekend, as it used to be, which would make it more powerful, meaningful and fun. Hell, I'd even join in.

    But as things are now? No. This relentless Wokery needs to end.
    You're transforming into Laurence Fox.
    No, because I've also criticised the equivalent on Poppies and Captain Tom. And I'm not an anti-vaxxer either.

    I might not be with the bandwagon spirit of the age - and I'm happy to be laughed at and ridiculed as a result - but my point of view is a reasonable and coherent one.

    I think I'm the sane one.
    A sane person would not be close to vomiting by a social media campaign about pride month.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Evening Standard reporting Carrie hired her wedding dress for £45

    It showed.
    That's just nasty. Give the girl a break. It was her wedding day..
    My gf, like almost all my mates not on twitter, saw the abuse under the photo of their wedding pics and just said “Why do people have to be so nasty? Haven’t they got anything better to do?”

    Twitter, and politics related social media, is so detached from the real world
    The demented level abuse is how they prove they are good people - to themselves.
    Except when it’s Diane Abbott because it barely exists and is all about her counting abilities anyway.
    Yep. The jokes and memes about "stupid" Diane from white, middle aged blokes who haven't got a racist or sexist bone in their body are because of all the stupid things she says. 🆗
    The Burgon Test should apply to this.

    If they make the same jokes and memes about both Diane and Burgon then that's neither racist nor sexist.
    If they make the jokes and memes about Diane but give Burgon a pass then its probably racist and/or sexist.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,889


    No, because I've also criticised the equivalent on Poppies and Captain Tom. And I'm not an anti-vaxxer either.

    I might not be with the bandwagon spirit of the age - and I'm happy to be laughed at and ridiculed as a result - but my point of view is a reasonable and coherent one.

    I think I'm the sane one.

    Well they do say in the land of the insane, the sane man will be king.

    I found this fascinating from New Zealand if you want an interesting approach to cultural issues

    https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2021/05/were-all-in-same-waka.html

    You may be surprised I agree with every word of this.

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,418

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Back when there were four TV channels, the print media, and some radio stations, I could see it being very annoying if a large fraction of it were to behave in such a monolithic, potential for corporate suicide if you don't join in way. As, say, with the poppy zealotry.

    These days, most evenings my media engagement is: a podcast, something on Netflix, arguing with randoms on pb.com.

    There are just so many different options these days that you can easily step away and not have to deal with what you evidently feel is an attempt at indoctrination or virtue-signalling. Leave people to it, if it makes them happy.

    I only really hear about it from you. I wouldn't know it was happening otherwise.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited June 2021

    HYUFD said:

    theakes said:

    But Trump could well be in Prison in November 2024!

    Did not stop Nelson Mandela becoming President a few years later, technically there is also nothing in the US constitution to prevent you running for and being elected President in jail
    There is I believe, something to do with the laws regarding felons not having the vote. Would prevent a prisoner from running in some key states.
    "Would prevent a prisoner from running in some key states."

    Believe you need to do more (or some) legal research on this point, because I'm pretty sure you are in error re: presidential candidates.

    Note my own avatar. Which is copy of campaign button from 1920 for Socialist Party candidate Eugene V. Debs - who was nominated from his cell in the Atlanta Federal Prison, after his conviction for sedition (for speaking out against conscription) in 1918.

    "For President - Convict No. 9653"

    In that election, Debs was credited with votes cast in all but 5 out of 48 states, winning a total of 915,490 (3.4%) out of just over 7 million cast.

    EDIT - My point (or part of it) is that while Gene Debs would have been ineligible to vote in many states on account of his criminal conviction (including IIRC his home state of Indiana) he was NOT banned from the presidential ballot in most (or perhaps any) state on this basis.
    This is an interesting one. On the face of it, the only qualifications for being elected President of the United States are those stated in the Constitution:

    1) being a natural-born US citizen (generally accepted as meaning having been a citizen from birth)
    2) being at least thirty-five years of age
    3) having resided in the US for at least fourteen years (at any point in their life: Herbert Hoover was living in London for some the fourteen years before his election).

    All of these qualifications Trump meets. There are also three specific disqualifications from the office of President:

    1) having previously been elected President twice, or having succeeded from the Vice-Presidency less than halfway through a term, previously been elected President once
    2) having been disqualified from office as a penalty after conviction by the Senate in a case of impeachment
    3) automatic disqualification from holding office due to participation in rebellion against the United States.

    Trump is not disqualified under any of those either, but you never know, he might make a try at #3...

    So on the face of it, Trump could indeed run as a felon, or even from chokey. There may well be, or could be enacted, state-level laws that would disqualify him from appearing on the printed ballot paper for such reasons, as (I think) all of the states have ballot qualification measures of varying restrictions. Most, but not all states, allow write-in candidates which would be a way around such.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Don't be such a snowflake getting triggered by everything. Next you'll be wanting this cancelled.

    The LBTQI+ community have faced so much bigotry, including in our lifetimes.

    Just remember you and I have lived in a period where homosexuality wasn't decriminalised in Scotland and Norn Iron until the early 80s.

    It is a reminder of the progress made and not to take things for granted.
    Missing the point. Predictable. So so predictable from you. Disappointing.

    We now have a LGBT+ history month in February and a whole month (in fact, it was over 6 weeks last year) - something like a sixth of the whole year.

    There are absolutely no boundaries to it (and nor can there be, for the reasons you describe) so it just goes on and on until it's utterly omnipresent and meaningless but also preached at to you every night and day.

    Pride should be confined to a weekend, as it used to be, which would make it more powerful, meaningful and fun. Hell, I'd even join in.

    But as things are now? No. This relentless Wokery needs to end.
    You're transforming into Laurence Fox.
    No, because I've also criticised the equivalent on Poppies and Captain Tom. And I'm not an anti-vaxxer either.

    I might not be with the bandwagon spirit of the age - and I'm happy to be laughed at and ridiculed as a result - but my point of view is a reasonable and coherent one.

    I think I'm the sane one.
    Just ignore it and be grateful you're not in danger of getting abuse for not falling into line.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052

    kjh said:

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    I think that for most people it just washes over them. I don't mind them doing it, I don't care one way or another, and I never noticed till you said. Don't let it wind you up.
    I don't think that's true. I think a lot of people get just as annoyed by it as I do - including non heterosexuals - but they just don't say anything.
    I was walking with an ultra-woke gay friend in town a couple of years ago and I pointed out to him a rainbow-bedecked Barclays Bank and to my surprise he looked slightly uncomfortable and told me he thought it was a bit much. So it's not just you, or even just straight people.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Don't be such a snowflake getting triggered by everything. Next you'll be wanting this cancelled.

    The LBTQI+ community have faced so much bigotry, including in our lifetimes.

    Just remember you and I have lived in a period where homosexuality wasn't decriminalised in Scotland and Norn Iron until the early 80s.

    It is a reminder of the progress made and not to take things for granted.
    Missing the point. Predictable. So so predictable from you. Disappointing.

    We now have a LGBT+ history month in February and a whole month (in fact, it was over 6 weeks last year) - something like a sixth of the whole year.

    There are absolutely no boundaries to it (and nor can there be, for the reasons you describe) so it just goes on and on until it's utterly omnipresent and meaningless but also preached at to you every night and day.

    Pride should be confined to a weekend, as it used to be, which would make it more powerful, meaningful and fun. Hell, I'd even join in.

    But as things are now? No. This relentless Wokery needs to end.
    You're transforming into Laurence Fox.
    No, because I've also criticised the equivalent on Poppies and Captain Tom. And I'm not an anti-vaxxer either.

    I might not be with the bandwagon spirit of the age - and I'm happy to be laughed at and ridiculed as a result - but my point of view is a reasonable and coherent one.

    I think I'm the sane one.
    A sane person would not be close to vomiting by a social media campaign about pride month.
    Pride is people being proud of who they are. The people close to vomiting in disgust are also proud of who they are. Perhaps they would feel better if they went on a pride march?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,202
    kyf_100 said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    For the perusal of @rcs1000 and other lovers of Tether fraud - today I learnt there are a whole pile of unregulated Forex markets that use Tether as their on/off ramp

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forex+broker+accept+usdt

    Tether may very well go down as the greatest fraud in history.

    (It's a fascinating shell game: the goal of Tether management is to get other people to hold Tether at 1:1 with the USD, by buying when it falls below 99.5cents, and therefore earning a tiny profit. But, of course, these people are picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer, as Tether is being robbed blind. I suspect that at least $20bn of the $62bn has been looted from it already, and at some point it will come crashing down, when people realise there isn't $60bn sitting on the books.)
    Oh, everyone already know the money isn't there. Fully half of Tether's attested to holdings are "Commercial Paper". According to their general council it is A-2 or above.

    That means, if Tether and their general council is being truthful, Tether owns 3% of the entire US Commercial Paper market with two full percentage points purchased in the last 3 months. Let that sink in.

    No one actually believes this but everyone knows that without Tether the Bitcoin price goes down and to the right not up and to the right.
    So what happens when Tether collapses? Does it bring Bitcoin down with it? Is it damaging to the wider economy?
    Given Bitcoin’s carbon footprint is something like 0.25% of the US’s (i.e. huge) the sooner it crashes the better.
    The latest estimate of Bitcoin electricity usage was 129TWh/year, which is more than 85% of countries.

    The crash is going to be spectacular to watch from a distance.
    When would it be likely ?

    I invest, a small amount, via SIPP and S&S ISA but avoid stuff like Bitcoin, Ethereum, Ripple and the rest. I just don’t get them and when my Facebook and twitter feed was regularly full of scams concerning them it just made me incredibly wary. I like to invest in stuff I understand. I don’t understand these and I don’t understand NFTs
    Most of the points raised above are refuted, or at the very least, countered, at https://endthefud.org/

    The energy stuff is a complete nonsense, bitcoin actually incentivises clean energy usage because clean energy produces too much energy when demand is low and not enough when it's high. Since most of that energy can't be stored, it's wasted - raising overall unit cost. As Bitcoin is on 24/7, bitcoin creates a market for that surplus clean energy, thus incentivising more production of clean energy as there is an increased market for it.

    As far as tether goes, people have been saying it's going to collapse for years - surprise surprise, it hasn't. And even if it did, it represents about 4% of the total crypto market cap, scammier coins like bitconnect have collapsed without crashing the entire crypto market.
    (1) BTC is (mostly) mined in China using coal. Indeed, it is often the owners of the coal plants themselves who have a side business BTC mining. It's quite efficient for them to have a sideline in BTC because during off peak periods in China electricity, they move over to BTC mining. That being said, it's still coal being being used for mining.

    (2) Tether is a scam. It's not complicated. They have printed more Tether (by far) than they have in assets. Just because it hasn't collapsed yet, doesn't mean it won't.

    (3) When Tether collapses, there will be ripples. I'm not a "all crypto is doomed" kind of guy, but there will be consequences.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    darkage said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Have you tried not having twitter, facebook and linkedin....would lower your blood pressure
    Yes, but everyone has those.

    And even if you don't there's all the apps.
    You can actually survive without these websites, I quit them 3 months ago and nothing is any different.

    You think you are missing out but you aren't, because you only saw a meaningless fraction of what is going on in the world anyway. You get more time to think without being in a constant state of doom and panic.

    Tell me how?

    I wouldn't miss Facebook at all I don't think. I'd be worried about LinkedIn as it allows me to easily network in my career.

    I sup with a long spoon on Twitter these days.
  • ChelyabinskChelyabinsk Posts: 500
    edited June 2021
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Evening Standard reporting Carrie hired her wedding dress for £45

    It showed.
    That's just nasty. Give the girl a break. It was her wedding day..
    My gf, like almost all my mates not on twitter, saw the abuse under the photo of their wedding pics and just said “Why do people have to be so nasty? Haven’t they got anything better to do?”

    Twitter, and politics related social media, is so detached from the real world
    The demented level abuse is how they prove they are good people - to themselves.
    Except when it’s Diane Abbott because it barely exists and is all about her counting abilities anyway.
    Yep. The jokes and memes about "stupid" Diane from white, middle aged blokes who haven't got a racist or sexist bone in their body are because of all the stupid things she says. 🆗
    You never told us whether you stand by your earlier contention that she gets "by far the most (and the most visceral and personal) abuse of any MP in the country".
    Why should I say things twice?
    You shouldn't even have said it once, given that the only evidence you were able to provide said "This article was amended on 20 November 2018. The headline and some text references in an earlier version said that Diane Abbott received more abuse than any other MP. The data involved were from a study of female MPs only". Sensible move to shut up about it for five hours; foolish one to reopen it again.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    darkage said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:



    OK.

    If you don't have official lockdowns, you still have lockdowns. They're just unofficial ones that happen when everyone is utterly terrified to go out.

    You have a series of waves that come and go, as people get scared of the virus and stay home. So the choice is not between zero years locked down and 66 million, it's between "n" and 66 million.

    Plus there's the fact that without restrctions, we would probably have had higher peaks, and we might have actually seem the health service overloaded, leading to situtations like happened in New York or Milan early last year (or Manaus). And when you have those kind of peaks, you're not killing off people with just 10 years to go, you are killing off those with 20 or 30 or 40.

    If you want to see just how bad excess deaths can go, look at Ecuador: they have been running at deaths 3x the normal level. Three times. We've been at 20-30% above normal levels for the last year.

    Without restrictions, we would still have lost decades of peoples' lives to lockdowns, and we would have had much higher death tolls.

    Now, should we have opened up much quicker? Damn right we should. But the idea that "no restrictions" is milk and honey is for the birds.

    Yes to the illusion of lockdown free paradise. I'm also aware of rather a lot of people who have had quite a decent year, and some who quietly say they've really preferred it (mostly people who have seen far more of their young kids and much less commuting) but in view of the horrors that so many have experienced are shy of saying it.
    Indeed I am one of those. Lockdowns has signalled the end of the office for me and allowed me the freedom to move home and actually be close to family instead of seeing the once or twice a year which has been the case for the last 33 years. You also can't, i would argue, multiply 66 million by a year to calculate lost time. A lot of those 66 million would have spent 4 or 5 nights a week sat on the sofa watching tv in any case. I doubt many but the young have 7 day a week of "Wow what a brilliant day" and for most of us many days of the week aren't much different to lockdown
    Sorry to post without introduction. But I am a lockdown winner. My property has gone up by at least £100k, and these price rises show no signs of slowing. I have a whole host of new employment opportunities as the acceptance of remote working means that I can take jobs in London without the daily supercommute. We got to spend a lot of time in the garden and save a lot money. At worst the restrictions were a bit annoying. All this would be fine but for the civilisation ending woke cultural revolution that has come with it. Everyone has their own opinion on this, but in my case I am seriously looking at emigration.
    Welcome 'darkage'. Sounds like you have a great life. Just out of curiosity, how has this "civilisation ending woke cultural revolution" had such an impact on that good life that you're considering emigrating?
    Because he can live anywhere now and work remotely?
    But the woke cultural revolution WILL be televised, and tweeted and WhatsApped, so it's not clear how emigrating helps.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    darkage said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:



    OK.

    If you don't have official lockdowns, you still have lockdowns. They're just unofficial ones that happen when everyone is utterly terrified to go out.

    You have a series of waves that come and go, as people get scared of the virus and stay home. So the choice is not between zero years locked down and 66 million, it's between "n" and 66 million.

    Plus there's the fact that without restrctions, we would probably have had higher peaks, and we might have actually seem the health service overloaded, leading to situtations like happened in New York or Milan early last year (or Manaus). And when you have those kind of peaks, you're not killing off people with just 10 years to go, you are killing off those with 20 or 30 or 40.

    If you want to see just how bad excess deaths can go, look at Ecuador: they have been running at deaths 3x the normal level. Three times. We've been at 20-30% above normal levels for the last year.

    Without restrictions, we would still have lost decades of peoples' lives to lockdowns, and we would have had much higher death tolls.

    Now, should we have opened up much quicker? Damn right we should. But the idea that "no restrictions" is milk and honey is for the birds.

    Yes to the illusion of lockdown free paradise. I'm also aware of rather a lot of people who have had quite a decent year, and some who quietly say they've really preferred it (mostly people who have seen far more of their young kids and much less commuting) but in view of the horrors that so many have experienced are shy of saying it.
    Indeed I am one of those. Lockdowns has signalled the end of the office for me and allowed me the freedom to move home and actually be close to family instead of seeing the once or twice a year which has been the case for the last 33 years. You also can't, i would argue, multiply 66 million by a year to calculate lost time. A lot of those 66 million would have spent 4 or 5 nights a week sat on the sofa watching tv in any case. I doubt many but the young have 7 day a week of "Wow what a brilliant day" and for most of us many days of the week aren't much different to lockdown
    Sorry to post without introduction. But I am a lockdown winner. My property has gone up by at least £100k, and these price rises show no signs of slowing. I have a whole host of new employment opportunities as the acceptance of remote working means that I can take jobs in London without the daily supercommute. We got to spend a lot of time in the garden and save a lot money. At worst the restrictions were a bit annoying. All this would be fine but for the civilisation ending woke cultural revolution that has come with it. Everyone has their own opinion on this, but in my case I am seriously looking at emigration.
    Welcome 'darkage'. Sounds like you have a great life. Just out of curiosity, how has this "civilisation ending woke cultural revolution" had such an impact on that good life that you're considering emigrating?
    Some people see the 'woke' as the reinvention of western civilisation, I see it as the end of western civilisation. As I said, it is a personal opinion and I am not mad about it in the way that some people are. We will have to see who is right.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,202

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Don't be such a snowflake getting triggered by everything. Next you'll be wanting this cancelled.

    The LBTQI+ community have faced so much bigotry, including in our lifetimes.

    Just remember you and I have lived in a period where homosexuality wasn't decriminalised in Scotland and Norn Iron until the early 80s.

    It is a reminder of the progress made and not to take things for granted.
    Missing the point. Predictable. So so predictable from you. Disappointing.

    We now have a LGBT+ history month in February and a whole month (in fact, it was over 6 weeks last year) - something like a sixth of the whole year.

    There are absolutely no boundaries to it (and nor can there be, for the reasons you describe) so it just goes on and on until it's utterly omnipresent and meaningless but also preached at to you every night and day.

    Pride should be confined to a weekend, as it used to be, which would make it more powerful, meaningful and fun. Hell, I'd even join in.

    But as things are now? No. This relentless Wokery needs to end.
    Yeah, but notice how they gave LGBT+ February - i.e. the shortest month.

    That's discrimination that is, making it clear that they think LGBT+ don't deserve a proper 31 day month.

    (For the avoidance of doubt, this is a joke.)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    edited June 2021

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Back when there were four TV channels, the print media, and some radio stations, I could see it being very annoying if a large fraction of it were to behave in such a monolithic, potential for corporate suicide if you don't join in way. As, say, with the poppy zealotry.

    These days, most evenings my media engagement is: a podcast, something on Netflix, arguing with randoms on pb.com.

    There are just so many different options these days that you can easily step away and not have to deal with what you evidently feel is an attempt at indoctrination or virtue-signalling. Leave people to it, if it makes them happy.

    I only really hear about it from you. I wouldn't know it was happening otherwise.
    The only time I notice it is when it goes wrong such as the when railway websites that went greyscale for Prince Philip's death and got criticised from a colour blind charity.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Fishing said:

    kjh said:

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    I think that for most people it just washes over them. I don't mind them doing it, I don't care one way or another, and I never noticed till you said. Don't let it wind you up.
    I don't think that's true. I think a lot of people get just as annoyed by it as I do - including non heterosexuals - but they just don't say anything.
    I was walking with an ultra-woke gay friend in town a couple of years ago and I pointed out to him a rainbow-bedecked Barclays Bank and to my surprise he looked slightly uncomfortable and told me he thought it was a bit much. So it's not just you, or even just straight people.
    Thanks.

    A gay friend of mine said something similar a couple of years ago: he wanted a cashier and extra assistant on duty in HSBC and his local branch to stay open, rather than this corporate pandering.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Now that he's married, Bozo can resume his favourite hobby.

    Adultery.

    Yes, interesting isn't it. It is like an employer who hires a serial job hopper in the belief they might be loyal on this occasion. It rarely works out.
    He is the first PM to get married on office for a while: what are the odds he lasts long enough to be the first one to get divorced?
    He’s already ticked that box
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    My favourite example of when virtue signalling goes wrong:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3293466/Poppies-removed-train-platforms-drivers-confuse-red-signals.html

    Large display of poppies removed from London train station platforms because drivers could confuse them with red signals
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,388
    edited June 2021

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Evening Standard reporting Carrie hired her wedding dress for £45

    It showed.
    That's just nasty. Give the girl a break. It was her wedding day..
    My gf, like almost all my mates not on twitter, saw the abuse under the photo of their wedding pics and just said “Why do people have to be so nasty? Haven’t they got anything better to do?”

    Twitter, and politics related social media, is so detached from the real world
    The demented level abuse is how they prove they are good people - to themselves.
    Except when it’s Diane Abbott because it barely exists and is all about her counting abilities anyway.
    Yep. The jokes and memes about "stupid" Diane from white, middle aged blokes who haven't got a racist or sexist bone in their body are because of all the stupid things she says. 🆗
    The Burgon Test should apply to this.

    If they make the same jokes and memes about both Diane and Burgon then that's neither racist nor sexist.
    If they make the jokes and memes about Diane but give Burgon a pass then its probably racist and/or sexist.
    I don't think Burgon's ever been called a fat black c**t, has he? Whereas Diane frequently has. And it's not really jokes or memes that are the problem, it's abuse.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    Aberdeenshire moves to level 1 at the weekend, which doesn't seem to make that big a difference to the relative freedom we already have. And then a scan down at Level 0 - nightclubs and "adult entertainment" still can't reopen even at 0.

    Question - if people want to frequent nightclubs or gentlemens clubs or saunas or whatever, at what level of restriction do we have to get to before they are allowed? -2? I know this may be a peculiar Scottish thing, but are we to see the same south of the border once you get to 21st June? FREEDOM - except for this list of banned activities...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    tlg86 said:

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Don't be such a snowflake getting triggered by everything. Next you'll be wanting this cancelled.

    The LBTQI+ community have faced so much bigotry, including in our lifetimes.

    Just remember you and I have lived in a period where homosexuality wasn't decriminalised in Scotland and Norn Iron until the early 80s.

    It is a reminder of the progress made and not to take things for granted.
    Missing the point. Predictable. So so predictable from you. Disappointing.

    We now have a LGBT+ history month in February and a whole month (in fact, it was over 6 weeks last year) - something like a sixth of the whole year.

    There are absolutely no boundaries to it (and nor can there be, for the reasons you describe) so it just goes on and on until it's utterly omnipresent and meaningless but also preached at to you every night and day.

    Pride should be confined to a weekend, as it used to be, which would make it more powerful, meaningful and fun. Hell, I'd even join in.

    But as things are now? No. This relentless Wokery needs to end.
    You're transforming into Laurence Fox.
    No, because I've also criticised the equivalent on Poppies and Captain Tom. And I'm not an anti-vaxxer either.

    I might not be with the bandwagon spirit of the age - and I'm happy to be laughed at and ridiculed as a result - but my point of view is a reasonable and coherent one.

    I think I'm the sane one.
    Just ignore it and be grateful you're not in danger of getting abuse for not falling into line.
    That's why you're all getting it here.

    I need to vent somewhere.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Evening Standard reporting Carrie hired her wedding dress for £45

    It showed.
    That's just nasty. Give the girl a break. It was her wedding day..
    My gf, like almost all my mates not on twitter, saw the abuse under the photo of their wedding pics and just said “Why do people have to be so nasty? Haven’t they got anything better to do?”

    Twitter, and politics related social media, is so detached from the real world
    The demented level abuse is how they prove they are good people - to themselves.
    Except when it’s Diane Abbott because it barely exists and is all about her counting abilities anyway.
    Yep. The jokes and memes about "stupid" Diane from white, middle aged blokes who haven't got a racist or sexist bone in their body are because of all the stupid things she says. 🆗
    The Burgon Test should apply to this.

    If they make the same jokes and memes about both Diane and Burgon then that's neither racist nor sexist.
    If they make the jokes and memes about Diane but give Burgon a pass then its probably racist and/or sexist.
    I don't think Burgon's ever been called a fat black c**t, has he? Whereas Diane frequently has. And it's not really jokes or memes that are the problem, it's abuse.
    The quote in quotation marks was "stupid" - and there's been plenty of "stupid" jokes about Burgon and Diane both. Many would say justifiably so.

    Calling someone a "fat black c**t" is automatically both sexist and racist of course, but that's not "stupid" which was the quote I replied to. 🤦‍♂️
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    darkage said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:



    OK.

    If you don't have official lockdowns, you still have lockdowns. They're just unofficial ones that happen when everyone is utterly terrified to go out.

    You have a series of waves that come and go, as people get scared of the virus and stay home. So the choice is not between zero years locked down and 66 million, it's between "n" and 66 million.

    Plus there's the fact that without restrctions, we would probably have had higher peaks, and we might have actually seem the health service overloaded, leading to situtations like happened in New York or Milan early last year (or Manaus). And when you have those kind of peaks, you're not killing off people with just 10 years to go, you are killing off those with 20 or 30 or 40.

    If you want to see just how bad excess deaths can go, look at Ecuador: they have been running at deaths 3x the normal level. Three times. We've been at 20-30% above normal levels for the last year.

    Without restrictions, we would still have lost decades of peoples' lives to lockdowns, and we would have had much higher death tolls.

    Now, should we have opened up much quicker? Damn right we should. But the idea that "no restrictions" is milk and honey is for the birds.

    Yes to the illusion of lockdown free paradise. I'm also aware of rather a lot of people who have had quite a decent year, and some who quietly say they've really preferred it (mostly people who have seen far more of their young kids and much less commuting) but in view of the horrors that so many have experienced are shy of saying it.
    Indeed I am one of those. Lockdowns has signalled the end of the office for me and allowed me the freedom to move home and actually be close to family instead of seeing the once or twice a year which has been the case for the last 33 years. You also can't, i would argue, multiply 66 million by a year to calculate lost time. A lot of those 66 million would have spent 4 or 5 nights a week sat on the sofa watching tv in any case. I doubt many but the young have 7 day a week of "Wow what a brilliant day" and for most of us many days of the week aren't much different to lockdown
    Sorry to post without introduction. But I am a lockdown winner. My property has gone up by at least £100k, and these price rises show no signs of slowing. I have a whole host of new employment opportunities as the acceptance of remote working means that I can take jobs in London without the daily supercommute. We got to spend a lot of time in the garden and save a lot money. At worst the restrictions were a bit annoying. All this would be fine but for the civilisation ending woke cultural revolution that has come with it. Everyone has their own opinion on this, but in my case I am seriously looking at emigration.
    But to where would you emigrate? Most of the LGBT-hostile places aren't exactly countries I think most of us would like to live in. I mean, I've visited St Petersburg and would happily live in that wonderful city for itself, but not while a regime that doesn't believe in the rule-of-law is running the place. (And apologies to my Russian friends, but I don't see much prospect of that changing even if Putin were to be ousted.)
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    edited June 2021

    darkage said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Have you tried not having twitter, facebook and linkedin....would lower your blood pressure
    Yes, but everyone has those.

    And even if you don't there's all the apps.
    You can actually survive without these websites, I quit them 3 months ago and nothing is any different.

    You think you are missing out but you aren't, because you only saw a meaningless fraction of what is going on in the world anyway. You get more time to think without being in a constant state of doom and panic.

    Tell me how?

    I wouldn't miss Facebook at all I don't think. I'd be worried about LinkedIn as it allows me to easily network in my career.

    I sup with a long spoon on Twitter these days.
    I would recommend just logging out of facebook and twitter and put them on blocksite, so you don't automatically visit them, after a while you just get out of the habit of looking at them. I've not logged in to twitter for 3 months.

    I understand about Linkedin being more difficult if you rely on it for finding work, fortunately I don't. If I did I would avoid looking at the news feed (which is all just a load of people I don't know) and just actually use it to contact people when I need to.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Don't be such a snowflake getting triggered by everything. Next you'll be wanting this cancelled.

    The LBTQI+ community have faced so much bigotry, including in our lifetimes.

    Just remember you and I have lived in a period where homosexuality wasn't decriminalised in Scotland and Norn Iron until the early 80s.

    It is a reminder of the progress made and not to take things for granted.
    Missing the point. Predictable. So so predictable from you. Disappointing.

    We now have a LGBT+ history month in February and a whole month (in fact, it was over 6 weeks last year) - something like a sixth of the whole year.

    There are absolutely no boundaries to it (and nor can there be, for the reasons you describe) so it just goes on and on until it's utterly omnipresent and meaningless but also preached at to you every night and day.

    Pride should be confined to a weekend, as it used to be, which would make it more powerful, meaningful and fun. Hell, I'd even join in.

    But as things are now? No. This relentless Wokery needs to end.
    You're transforming into Laurence Fox.
    No, because I've also criticised the equivalent on Poppies and Captain Tom. And I'm not an anti-vaxxer either.

    I might not be with the bandwagon spirit of the age - and I'm happy to be laughed at and ridiculed as a result - but my point of view is a reasonable and coherent one.

    I think I'm the sane one.
    A sane person would not be close to vomiting by a social media campaign about pride month.
    A sane person would recognise that every single company in the country changing their corporate logos and preaching it about it for over a full month (four times longer than it used to be) after the equality battle was won meant that something wasn't quite right.

    It's like we were pulling into the station, because we'd arrived, and then threw the throttle to full and raced straight through it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    rcs1000 said:

    Almost every company, bank, utility and media account in my Twitter and LinkedIn feed has turned their corporate icon to a trans/rainbow flag today, and Facebook have gone even further with a "love is love" animé.

    Does anyone else not think this is OTT?

    Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit - together with others tweeting it and liking it all so they can be seen to be achingly right-on. Of course, those that object - in any form - are reactionary bigots.

    The ubiquitous preachiness and self-absorption gets to me, together with the way it's framed as with us or against us, and means I both feel immensely irritated by it and a sort of contempt for it.

    Don't be such a snowflake getting triggered by everything. Next you'll be wanting this cancelled.

    The LBTQI+ community have faced so much bigotry, including in our lifetimes.

    Just remember you and I have lived in a period where homosexuality wasn't decriminalised in Scotland and Norn Iron until the early 80s.

    It is a reminder of the progress made and not to take things for granted.
    Missing the point. Predictable. So so predictable from you. Disappointing.

    We now have a LGBT+ history month in February and a whole month (in fact, it was over 6 weeks last year) - something like a sixth of the whole year.

    There are absolutely no boundaries to it (and nor can there be, for the reasons you describe) so it just goes on and on until it's utterly omnipresent and meaningless but also preached at to you every night and day.

    Pride should be confined to a weekend, as it used to be, which would make it more powerful, meaningful and fun. Hell, I'd even join in.

    But as things are now? No. This relentless Wokery needs to end.
    Yeah, but notice how they gave LGBT+ February - i.e. the shortest month.

    That's discrimination that is, making it clear that they think LGBT+ don't deserve a proper 31 day month.

    (For the avoidance of doubt, this is a joke.)
    Lol!
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    rpjs said:

    darkage said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:



    OK.

    If you don't have official lockdowns, you still have lockdowns. They're just unofficial ones that happen when everyone is utterly terrified to go out.

    You have a series of waves that come and go, as people get scared of the virus and stay home. So the choice is not between zero years locked down and 66 million, it's between "n" and 66 million.

    Plus there's the fact that without restrctions, we would probably have had higher peaks, and we might have actually seem the health service overloaded, leading to situtations like happened in New York or Milan early last year (or Manaus). And when you have those kind of peaks, you're not killing off people with just 10 years to go, you are killing off those with 20 or 30 or 40.

    If you want to see just how bad excess deaths can go, look at Ecuador: they have been running at deaths 3x the normal level. Three times. We've been at 20-30% above normal levels for the last year.

    Without restrictions, we would still have lost decades of peoples' lives to lockdowns, and we would have had much higher death tolls.

    Now, should we have opened up much quicker? Damn right we should. But the idea that "no restrictions" is milk and honey is for the birds.

    Yes to the illusion of lockdown free paradise. I'm also aware of rather a lot of people who have had quite a decent year, and some who quietly say they've really preferred it (mostly people who have seen far more of their young kids and much less commuting) but in view of the horrors that so many have experienced are shy of saying it.
    Indeed I am one of those. Lockdowns has signalled the end of the office for me and allowed me the freedom to move home and actually be close to family instead of seeing the once or twice a year which has been the case for the last 33 years. You also can't, i would argue, multiply 66 million by a year to calculate lost time. A lot of those 66 million would have spent 4 or 5 nights a week sat on the sofa watching tv in any case. I doubt many but the young have 7 day a week of "Wow what a brilliant day" and for most of us many days of the week aren't much different to lockdown
    Sorry to post without introduction. But I am a lockdown winner. My property has gone up by at least £100k, and these price rises show no signs of slowing. I have a whole host of new employment opportunities as the acceptance of remote working means that I can take jobs in London without the daily supercommute. We got to spend a lot of time in the garden and save a lot money. At worst the restrictions were a bit annoying. All this would be fine but for the civilisation ending woke cultural revolution that has come with it. Everyone has their own opinion on this, but in my case I am seriously looking at emigration.
    But to where would you emigrate? Most of the LGBT-hostile places aren't exactly countries I think most of us would like to live in. I mean, I've visited St Petersburg and would happily live in that wonderful city for itself, but not while a regime that doesn't believe in the rule-of-law is running the place. (And apologies to my Russian friends, but I don't see much prospect of that changing even if Putin were to be ousted.)
    In my case there is no correlation between being concerned about the woke, and 'LGBT hostile'

This discussion has been closed.