Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
Or does he get a pass from the likes of Prof Pillock, because he had the "right" opinions on other things?
The thing is even if they would all be taken down, it would be on to the next thing that needs cancelling...its like XR, these bad faith actors, nothing but the total and utter destruction of the current system will be enough (and in the case of XR, they have admitted this).
In at least a tongue-in-cheek sense, Younge has a point. Almost no-one looks at statues (and when they do, often they are not very good). You could probably replace all of them with figures of Boris Johnson and no-one would notice. Though conversely, if the people who complain didn't complain, probably no-one would take offence.
Horses are nice. For the mounted ones, get someone to chisel/cut off the riders and just leave the horses.
Ensure there's a good mix of male/female horses too (chisel again, if needed) and white horses/horses of colour.
Not really - EVERYONE I know in London got vaccinated early. Precisely because their are so many people refusing, there's been lots of early availability for anyone that wants it. Good news for lowering R that so many more social people are already covered.
Interesting. How many on here know people that have declined to be vaccinated when given the chance? We know it is happening, but I’m not sure I know anyone personally who has made that choice.
I know one who is a white middle class conspiracy theorist. I suspect lots are keeping quiet about it. As with all health matters it is confidential. I imagine there are a few who are anti vaxers in public but have had it done on the quiet as well. people are odd.
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
They started the culture war; we will finish it.
Well I guess he has already achieved one of his objectives in that war: getting publicity from all-too-easily-angry right wingers who like to get cross about Professors of Sociology. I suspect even he doesn't believe all statues should be taken down, but it has got him some good controversial publicity.
I have always thought that history does genuinely repeat itself because the nature of human psychology. There is some symmetry between the bossy natured wokeists and the puritans who believed all statues and symbols were idolatrous and papist. Some people just love to force their view of the world onto others.
Strange how all the screeching over "digital covid certificates" in the UK, but the EU are going to have them. I presume all the #FBPE will be saying evidence of the brilliance of the EU.
Mr. Eagles, you'll be devastated when you hear of what Caesar did to the Thuringii.
Personally I'm not keen on Churchill College, Cambridge. They should abolish that.
Forget the fact that Churchill was a war criminal and racist they should abolish it for being a JCL college.
And Jesus College. That should definitely go.
Is Jesus getting cancelled? I would have thought he was woker than woke (for his time). - Leftwing firebrand (money lender incident) - Standing up for the rights of depised minorities (tax collectors) - Forgiving of members of the oldest profession (the sinful woman) And, above all, he was successful and popular (for a time, at least) despite being in a minority ethnic group (white, as we know from the pictures)
I fail to see the basis for cancelling Jesus.
Jesus was OK with slavery and used slavery often in his parables. Unsurprisingly since slavery was entirely normal in his day.
Which shows the problem of reading morality of the present into the past, and vice versa.
Doubtful if there is evidence either way that Jesus was OK with slavery. Some evidence that Paul was OK with moderated slavery, defo would not have been OK with sexual abuse/coercion as part of slavery as the same rules in early Christianity applied to everyone - one of its popular features with middling and lower sorts.
Then slavery is a multi faceted concept. What about the master slave relationship between Cicero and Tiro for example. I suspect he had a much better life than some non slave third world factory workers.
The "go the extra mile" stuff is, rather creepily, about enthusiastically cooperating with colonial oppression, if not precisely about slavery.
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
They started the culture war; we will finish it.
It's really not The Guardian saying all statues should come down. It's Gary Younge in an opinion piece. I do hope you don't want his opinion cancelled.
Along with the Taliban (Bamiyan) and ISIS (Palmyra).
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
Or does he get a pass from the likes of Prof Pillock, because he had the "right" opinions on other things?
The thing is even if they would all be taken down, it would be on to the next thing that needs cancelling...its like XR, these bad faith actors, nothing but the total and utter destruction of the current system will be enough (and in the case of XR, they have admitted this).
In at least a tongue-in-cheek sense, Younge has a point. Almost no-one looks at statues (and when they do, often they are not very good). You could probably replace all of them with figures of Boris Johnson and no-one would notice. Though conversely, if the people who complain didn't complain, probably no-one would take offence.
My point is the statues are irrelevant...for the bad faith actors it is just the start. Its naming anything after people they disagree with, its cancelling historical figures (even ones that only died a few weeks ago). Until the system has been broken, they won't be happy.
A lack of ventilation in workplaces and schools is one of the problems amid Lancashire's rising coronavirus infections, its public health director Dr Sakthi Karunanithi
---
I think travelling to f##king India in the middle of a pandemic might be the bloody problem, living in multi-generational households and failing to isolate....
Jesus College wants to hide a plaque (and put it in a side room) of a guy who gave them 2000 quid in 1671 equivalent to 450k now to fund scholarships for orphaned children of Anglican clergy, because of his links to the slave trade.
Eastasia has always been at war with Oceania.
Net net the guy probably created more orphans than he helped. At least now others facing a similar quandary about how to deal with these issues can ask "what would Jesus do?"
What's the extent of his connection?
If he had the readies to hand over £450k in today's money I am guessing it was more than tangential.
The slave trade was the only way to make money? Do you know who the donor was?
Tobias Rustat.
However, Rustat’s involvement in the Royal African Company, which transported almost 150,000 slaves to the Americas, led the college to address his legacy by removing a portrait and renaming the “Rustat feast” previously held in his honour.
IIRC The RAC (not the rival to the AA) transported more slaves to America during the transAtlantic slave trade than any other company.
The head of Jesus College is a descendent of slaves. It would seem odd to make her sit through a feast named in honour of someone who profited from the murder and exploitation of her ancestors. Although I suspect her ancestry helps to explain some of the frothing on the topic in the right wing press. Nothing gets these people upset more than a woman of colour in a position of authority.
To be clear, you have no evidence but are keen to call people racists because you have a "suspiscion".
It's a pattern. Meghan Markle. Naomi Osaka. Which MP gets more hate mail than all others? (Diane Abbot). I doubt Jesus College is the only Oxbridge College doing this. But this is the one in the news. You have to ask yourself why. So yes, I do have a "suspiscion" or perhaps "suspicion" as I like to call it.
Strange how all the screeching over "digital covid certificates" in the UK, but the EU are going to have them. I presume all the #FBPE will be saying evidence of the brilliance of the EU.
The World Health Organization (WHO) is renaming Covid variants with Greek letters in an attempt to simplify discussions and remove stigma.
Going to be fun when we are on latest variant known as [alpha beta gamma alpha epilson] variant by next summer.
Very confusing. This morning on the radio someone said, apropos opening up, that depends on the delta and I thought yes well it should. The rate of change of infections wrt something or other but no, he meant the Indian variant.
Jesus College wants to hide a plaque (and put it in a side room) of a guy who gave them 2000 quid in 1671 equivalent to 450k now to fund scholarships for orphaned children of Anglican clergy, because of his links to the slave trade.
Eastasia has always been at war with Oceania.
Net net the guy probably created more orphans than he helped. At least now others facing a similar quandary about how to deal with these issues can ask "what would Jesus do?"
What's the extent of his connection?
If he had the readies to hand over £450k in today's money I am guessing it was more than tangential.
The slave trade was the only way to make money? Do you know who the donor was?
Tobias Rustat.
However, Rustat’s involvement in the Royal African Company, which transported almost 150,000 slaves to the Americas, led the college to address his legacy by removing a portrait and renaming the “Rustat feast” previously held in his honour.
IIRC The RAC (not the rival to the AA) transported more slaves to America during the transAtlantic slave trade than any other company.
The head of Jesus College is a descendent of slaves. It would seem odd to make her sit through a feast named in honour of someone who profited from the murder and exploitation of her ancestors. Although I suspect her ancestry helps to explain some of the frothing on the topic in the right wing press. Nothing gets these people upset more than a woman of colour in a position of authority.
To be clear, you have no evidence but are keen to call people racists because you have a "suspiscion".
It's a pattern. Meghan Markle. Naomi Osaka. Which MP gets more hate mail than all others? (Diane Abbot). I doubt Jesus College is the only Oxbridge College doing this. But this is the one in the news. You have to ask yourself why. So yes, I do have a "suspiscion" or perhaps "suspicion" as I like to call it.
The first black leader of the Queen's elite Coldstream Guards has been charged with gun running. Let’s hope this wasn’t some kind of affirmative action. Innocent until proven guilty
Mr. Eagles, you'll be devastated when you hear of what Caesar did to the Thuringii.
Personally I'm not keen on Churchill College, Cambridge. They should abolish that.
Forget the fact that Churchill was a war criminal and racist they should abolish it for being a JCL college.
And Jesus College. That should definitely go.
Is Jesus getting cancelled? I would have thought he was woker than woke (for his time). - Leftwing firebrand (money lender incident) - Standing up for the rights of depised minorities (tax collectors) - Forgiving of members of the oldest profession (the sinful woman) And, above all, he was successful and popular (for a time, at least) despite being in a minority ethnic group (white, as we know from the pictures)
I fail to see the basis for cancelling Jesus.
Jesus was OK with slavery and used slavery often in his parables. Unsurprisingly since slavery was entirely normal in his day.
Which shows the problem of reading morality of the present into the past, and vice versa.
Doubtful if there is evidence either way that Jesus was OK with slavery. Some evidence that Paul was OK with moderated slavery, defo would not have been OK with sexual abuse/coercion as part of slavery as the same rules in early Christianity applied to everyone - one of its popular features with middling and lower sorts.
Then slavery is a multi faceted concept. What about the master slave relationship between Cicero and Tiro for example. I suspect he had a much better life than some non slave third world factory workers.
Taking the Bible at face value:
Paul was definitely fine with slavery.
Jesus, I see no evidence he was an abolitionist, which would have been a much greater shock in that era. He uses slaves frequently in his parables, even cruelty to them, without ever questioning whether slavery should be abolished as far as I know.
Which is part and parcel of the past. In the time when the New Testament was written the existence of slavery was just taken for granted. Same as the Old Testament which is why there's no many references to slavery there.
We are in a different era today. Some people want the morality of the past to confine us today, others want to judge those in the past with the morality of the present. Both are preposterous.
I am surprised these haven't become a political hot potato...its all well and good saying it only affects old cars for domestic use (which of course wallops the poor), but if you need a builder or plumber etc and live within the zone, i presume you the customer is going to see the cost passed onto you.
Clean Air Zones are deeply unpopular, we had to make clear in Epping Forest there would not be one here
I have a feeling even the lovely middle class folk who like to talk about how they are saving the environment, have got themselves an EV, always recycle etc, when Bob the Builder says that extensions, there is a Clean Air Zone surcharge of £500 to the bill, might not be quite so happy.
I had to buy a new car to comply with the London ULEZ extension. I still think it's a great idea. Air pollution is killing people.
That’s great, but how about those who can’t afford a new car? Maybe care workers or bar staff, for whom public transport is not viable.
True. But (devil's advocate) what about those who can't afford a car but have jobs they can travel by public transport and are getting their lives shortened by the air pollution that they contribute very little to?
Mr. Eagles, you'll be devastated when you hear of what Caesar did to the Thuringii.
Personally I'm not keen on Churchill College, Cambridge. They should abolish that.
Forget the fact that Churchill was a war criminal and racist they should abolish it for being a JCL college.
And Jesus College. That should definitely go.
Is Jesus getting cancelled? I would have thought he was woker than woke (for his time). - Leftwing firebrand (money lender incident) - Standing up for the rights of depised minorities (tax collectors) - Forgiving of members of the oldest profession (the sinful woman) And, above all, he was successful and popular (for a time, at least) despite being in a minority ethnic group (white, as we know from the pictures)
I fail to see the basis for cancelling Jesus.
Jesus was OK with slavery and used slavery often in his parables. Unsurprisingly since slavery was entirely normal in his day.
Which shows the problem of reading morality of the present into the past, and vice versa.
Doubtful if there is evidence either way that Jesus was OK with slavery. Some evidence that Paul was OK with moderated slavery, defo would not have been OK with sexual abuse/coercion as part of slavery as the same rules in early Christianity applied to everyone - one of its popular features with middling and lower sorts.
Then slavery is a multi faceted concept. What about the master slave relationship between Cicero and Tiro for example. I suspect he had a much better life than some non slave third world factory workers.
I am, being an atheist, very far from being an expert, but cautiously propose the following thought: Jesus was not a revolutionary: he was very much in the mold of dealing with the world as it is, not as he or anyone else would like it to be. His morality was based on what an inidividual should do, rather than how the collective should coerce the individual to be. ("render unto caesar what is due to caesar undo to God what is due to God", or however it went.) Therefore - not woke. My knowledge of the Bible is very scant indeed, though, and I may be wrong.
Despite Brexit....Because of Brexit....delete as appropriate.
Because of Brexit.
In order to secure supply chains there was an inevitability than domestically consumed supplies would be best made in the UK.
So in the credit column we have vaccines, namely we have them all and the EU have none (granted, a big plus) and Heinz has moved production of HP sauce from the Netherlands to Wigan.
Is there anything you can think of for the debit column? No, OK.
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
They started the culture war; we will finish it.
I can certainly take his point to a degree, but I dont really understand one if his propositions, that Britain is particularly statue obsessed, as part of seeking to petrify history (nice pun).
National historical myths and statues of past figured dont seem particularly unique to Britain.
I am surprised these haven't become a political hot potato...its all well and good saying it only affects old cars for domestic use (which of course wallops the poor), but if you need a builder or plumber etc and live within the zone, i presume you the customer is going to see the cost passed onto you.
Clean Air Zones are deeply unpopular, we had to make clear in Epping Forest there would not be one here
I have a feeling even the lovely middle class folk who like to talk about how they are saving the environment, have got themselves an EV, always recycle etc, when Bob the Builder says that extensions, there is a Clean Air Zone surcharge of £500 to the bill, might not be quite so happy.
I had to buy a new car to comply with the London ULEZ extension. I still think it's a great idea. Air pollution is killing people.
That’s great, but how about those who can’t afford a new car? Maybe care workers or bar staff, for whom public transport is not viable.
True. But (devil's advocate) what about those who can't afford a car but have jobs they can travel by public transport and are getting their lives shortened by the air pollution that they contribute very little to?
Every measure has winners and losers.
Of course, I was simply pointing out that taxes on old cars are very regressive.
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
They started the culture war; we will finish it.
Well I guess he has already achieved one of his objectives in that war: getting publicity from all-too-easily-angry right wingers who like to get cross about Professors of Sociology. I suspect even he doesn't believe all statues should be taken down, but it has got him some good controversial publicity.
I have always thought that history does genuinely repeat itself because the nature of human psychology. There is some symmetry between the bossy natured wokeists and the puritans who believed all statues and symbols were idolatrous and papist. Some people just love to force their view of the world onto others.
Oriel College basically said they couldn't take down their statue of Rhodes on their property even though they wanted to because the government would block it. So who is forcing their opinion on whom here?
Incidentally, keen virus watchers may wish to keep an eye on Brighton over the next few weeks. I've never seen the place as packed as it has been over the weekend, with beach, bars and restaurants heaving and social distancing a rule more breached than observed. Incomers from Croydon and the rest of London made up a fair bit of the crowds. A melting pot of ages, vaccination status and social/ethnic backgrounds rampaged through the city for 72 hours.
If cases in Brighton remain low or don't rise significantly over the next few weeks, I'd be pretty confident that the Indian variant, or any other variant, is not going to be a huge concern.
Despite Brexit....Because of Brexit....delete as appropriate.
Because of Brexit.
In order to secure supply chains there was an inevitability than domestically consumed supplies would be best made in the UK.
So in the credit column we have vaccines, namely we have them all and the EU have none (granted, a big plus) and Heinz has moved production of HP sauce from the Netherlands to Wigan.
Is there anything you can think of for the debit column? No, OK.
I think you mean anything else in the credit column?...no?
Also the EU doesn't have "none". After a slow start they are getting there. Also if we have them all why is it that we are still languishing in the 90% and 50%?
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
They started the culture war; we will finish it.
Well I guess he has already achieved one of his objectives in that war: getting publicity from all-too-easily-angry right wingers who like to get cross about Professors of Sociology. I suspect even he doesn't believe all statues should be taken down, but it has got him some good controversial publicity.
I have always thought that history does genuinely repeat itself because the nature of human psychology. There is some symmetry between the bossy natured wokeists and the puritans who believed all statues and symbols were idolatrous and papist. Some people just love to force their view of the world onto others.
Oriel College basically said they couldn't take down their statue of Rhodes on their property even though they wanted to because the government would block it. So who is forcing their opinion on whom here?
Probably a convenient excuse to avoid internal showdown.
Incidentally, keen virus watchers may wish to keep an eye on Brighton over the next few weeks. I've never seen the place as packed as it has been over the weekend, with beach, bars and restaurants heaving and social distancing a rule more breached than observed. Incomers from Croydon and the rest of London made up a fair bit of the crowds. A melting pot of ages, vaccination status and social/ethnic backgrounds rampaged through the city for 72 hours.
If cases in Brighton remain low or don't rise significantly over the next few weeks, I'd be pretty confident that the Indian variant, or any other variant, is not going to be a huge concern.
We had this last summer with hordes descending on the south coast and actually it didn't seem to do much. I presume because most people are spending the vast majority of time outside. They don't go to the seaside on a sunny day to sit inside for hours on end.
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
They started the culture war; we will finish it.
Take down the woke professors. Send them for re-education...
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
They started the culture war; we will finish it.
Well I guess he has already achieved one of his objectives in that war: getting publicity from all-too-easily-angry right wingers who like to get cross about Professors of Sociology. I suspect even he doesn't believe all statues should be taken down, but it has got him some good controversial publicity.
I have always thought that history does genuinely repeat itself because the nature of human psychology. There is some symmetry between the bossy natured wokeists and the puritans who believed all statues and symbols were idolatrous and papist. Some people just love to force their view of the world onto others.
Oriel College basically said they couldn't take down their statue of Rhodes on their property even though they wanted to because the government would block it. So who is forcing their opinion on whom here?
Probably a convenient excuse to avoid internal showdown.
Maybe but the government has said it will force its opinion on them.
Its bollocks, is what it is...the same way as B 1.1.27.79.87.10.11.8 gets shortened to Hartlepool variant of concern...calling it alpha beta gamma sigma, will just get the same treatment.
And if you think people won't discriminate....well I bloody hope they do...if we find a new terrible mutant version in such and such a country, we need to stop travel from it. Its just the way it is, no offense to the individuals of that country. Just calling alpha beta gamma sigma and saying well that reduced the stigma, but by the way Romania is now on the travel ban list, why, not saying...taps nose.
Incidentally, keen virus watchers may wish to keep an eye on Brighton over the next few weeks. I've never seen the place as packed as it has been over the weekend, with beach, bars and restaurants heaving and social distancing a rule more breached than observed. Incomers from Croydon and the rest of London made up a fair bit of the crowds. A melting pot of ages, vaccination status and social/ethnic backgrounds rampaged through the city for 72 hours.
If cases in Brighton remain low or don't rise significantly over the next few weeks, I'd be pretty confident that the Indian variant, or any other variant, is not going to be a huge concern.
We had this last summer with hordes descending on the south coast and actually it didn't seem to do much. I presume because most people are spending the vast majority of time outside. They don't go to the seaside on a sunny day to sit inside for hours on end.
As for statues, Johnathan Sumption is very good on this. He imo rightly notes that the problem with condemning historical values is that that implies that there are some values which are immutable and exist outside our human mores. Which is pretty much how religions operate.
That said I think it entirely reasonable that people, especially people who might be suffering discrimination today, would not want to live in an environment which appears, via its statuary, to celebrate eg slave traders.
That the UK and slavery is so intertwined is of course a more profound puzzle.
Despite Brexit....Because of Brexit....delete as appropriate.
Because of Brexit.
In order to secure supply chains there was an inevitability than domestically consumed supplies would be best made in the UK.
So in the credit column we have vaccines, namely we have them all and the EU have none (granted, a big plus) and Heinz has moved production of HP sauce from the Netherlands to Wigan.
Is there anything you can think of for the debit column? No, OK.
I think you mean anything else in the credit column?...no?
Also the EU doesn't have "none". After a slow start they are getting there. Also if we have them all why is it that we are still languishing in the 90% and 50%?
No. The jolly band of Brexiteers seem keen to promote the positives, but seem reluctant to accede to any negatives. Maybe fresh soft fruit rotting in the fields due to a lack of European labour is a good thing. What do I know?
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
They started the culture war; we will finish it.
Well I guess he has already achieved one of his objectives in that war: getting publicity from all-too-easily-angry right wingers who like to get cross about Professors of Sociology. I suspect even he doesn't believe all statues should be taken down, but it has got him some good controversial publicity.
I have always thought that history does genuinely repeat itself because the nature of human psychology. There is some symmetry between the bossy natured wokeists and the puritans who believed all statues and symbols were idolatrous and papist. Some people just love to force their view of the world onto others.
Oriel College basically said they couldn't take down their statue of Rhodes on their property even though they wanted to because the government would block it. So who is forcing their opinion on whom here?
The government said that they’d need planning permission to make changes to a listed building.
As for statues, Johnathan Sumption is very good on this. He imo rightly notes that the problem with condemning historical values is that that implies that there are some values which are immutable and exist outside our human mores. Which is pretty much how religions operate.
That said I think it entirely reasonable that people, especially people who might be suffering discrimination today, would not want to live in an environment which appears, via its statuary, to celebrate eg slave traders.
That the UK and slavery is so intertwined is of course a more profound puzzle.
Jesus College wants to hide a plaque (and put it in a side room) of a guy who gave them 2000 quid in 1671 equivalent to 450k now to fund scholarships for orphaned children of Anglican clergy, because of his links to the slave trade.
Eastasia has always been at war with Oceania.
Net net the guy probably created more orphans than he helped. At least now others facing a similar quandary about how to deal with these issues can ask "what would Jesus do?"
What's the extent of his connection?
If he had the readies to hand over £450k in today's money I am guessing it was more than tangential.
The slave trade was the only way to make money? Do you know who the donor was?
Tobias Rustat.
However, Rustat’s involvement in the Royal African Company, which transported almost 150,000 slaves to the Americas, led the college to address his legacy by removing a portrait and renaming the “Rustat feast” previously held in his honour.
IIRC The RAC (not the rival to the AA) transported more slaves to America during the transAtlantic slave trade than any other company.
The head of Jesus College is a descendent of slaves. It would seem odd to make her sit through a feast named in honour of someone who profited from the murder and exploitation of her ancestors. Although I suspect her ancestry helps to explain some of the frothing on the topic in the right wing press. Nothing gets these people upset more than a woman of colour in a position of authority.
To be clear, you have no evidence but are keen to call people racists because you have a "suspiscion".
It's a pattern. Meghan Markle. Naomi Osaka. Which MP gets more hate mail than all others? (Diane Abbot). I doubt Jesus College is the only Oxbridge College doing this. But this is the one in the news. You have to ask yourself why. So yes, I do have a "suspiscion" or perhaps "suspicion" as I like to call it.
Fake News about Diane Abbot.
So who gets the most hate mail - as it wouldn't surprise me she gets the most...
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
They started the culture war; we will finish it.
Well I guess he has already achieved one of his objectives in that war: getting publicity from all-too-easily-angry right wingers who like to get cross about Professors of Sociology. I suspect even he doesn't believe all statues should be taken down, but it has got him some good controversial publicity.
I have always thought that history does genuinely repeat itself because the nature of human psychology. There is some symmetry between the bossy natured wokeists and the puritans who believed all statues and symbols were idolatrous and papist. Some people just love to force their view of the world onto others.
Oriel College basically said they couldn't take down their statue of Rhodes on their property even though they wanted to because the government would block it. So who is forcing their opinion on whom here?
Which is Oriel talking diversionary bollocks. Unless the statue is considered to be listed as part of the facade of the college - which it probably is, thinking about it. So they would need to a apply to modify the facade (remove the statue).
Historic England aren't what most people would think of as the government, though.
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
They started the culture war; we will finish it.
Well I guess he has already achieved one of his objectives in that war: getting publicity from all-too-easily-angry right wingers who like to get cross about Professors of Sociology. I suspect even he doesn't believe all statues should be taken down, but it has got him some good controversial publicity.
I have always thought that history does genuinely repeat itself because the nature of human psychology. There is some symmetry between the bossy natured wokeists and the puritans who believed all statues and symbols were idolatrous and papist. Some people just love to force their view of the world onto others.
Oriel College basically said they couldn't take down their statue of Rhodes on their property even though they wanted to because the government would block it. So who is forcing their opinion on whom here?
If I recall correctly it is because it is a grade one listed building. Interesting point that you make though. I was rather thinking of those that wish to force political or religious views in pursuit of change the belief that their belief is more virtuous. There are strong parallels between the "tear down the statues" movements and the cultural vandals of the reformation, and (sorry you won't like this) the Taliban. Compromise is the best option and also to recognise there is much to be appalled about history, and slavery in particular. If we decide to destroy every landmark in the world that has associations with slavery we will be worse than the Taliban.
Despite Brexit....Because of Brexit....delete as appropriate.
Because of Brexit.
In order to secure supply chains there was an inevitability than domestically consumed supplies would be best made in the UK.
So in the credit column we have vaccines, namely we have them all and the EU have none (granted, a big plus) and Heinz has moved production of HP sauce from the Netherlands to Wigan.
Is there anything you can think of for the debit column? No, OK.
I think you mean anything else in the credit column?...no?
Also the EU doesn't have "none". After a slow start they are getting there. Also if we have them all why is it that we are still languishing in the 90% and 50%?
No. The jolly band of Brexiteers seem keen to promote the positives, but seem reluctant to accede to any negatives. Maybe fresh soft fruit rotting in the fields due to a lack of European labour is a good thing. What do I know?
Jesus College wants to hide a plaque (and put it in a side room) of a guy who gave them 2000 quid in 1671 equivalent to 450k now to fund scholarships for orphaned children of Anglican clergy, because of his links to the slave trade.
Eastasia has always been at war with Oceania.
Net net the guy probably created more orphans than he helped. At least now others facing a similar quandary about how to deal with these issues can ask "what would Jesus do?"
What's the extent of his connection?
If he had the readies to hand over £450k in today's money I am guessing it was more than tangential.
The slave trade was the only way to make money? Do you know who the donor was?
Tobias Rustat.
However, Rustat’s involvement in the Royal African Company, which transported almost 150,000 slaves to the Americas, led the college to address his legacy by removing a portrait and renaming the “Rustat feast” previously held in his honour.
IIRC The RAC (not the rival to the AA) transported more slaves to America during the transAtlantic slave trade than any other company.
The head of Jesus College is a descendent of slaves. It would seem odd to make her sit through a feast named in honour of someone who profited from the murder and exploitation of her ancestors. Although I suspect her ancestry helps to explain some of the frothing on the topic in the right wing press. Nothing gets these people upset more than a woman of colour in a position of authority.
To be clear, you have no evidence but are keen to call people racists because you have a "suspiscion".
It's a pattern. Meghan Markle. Naomi Osaka. Which MP gets more hate mail than all others? (Diane Abbot). I doubt Jesus College is the only Oxbridge College doing this. But this is the one in the news. You have to ask yourself why. So yes, I do have a "suspiscion" or perhaps "suspicion" as I like to call it.
Fake News about Diane Abbot.
So who gets the most hate mail - as it wouldn't surprise me she gets the most...
The survey people keep quoting was fundamentally flawed, we have been over this loads. What that one single very focused survey found was basically the more twitter followers / time in the media you had, the more abuse you ended up getting. Now she is far less high profile I would guess it has gone right down.
As for most hate, well Farage has to be up there...he has to have bodyguards and of course has been assaulted. Jezza also got assaulted. Boris consistently gets masses of abuse.
If you are a high profile politician*, unfortunately, like the footballers, there are twats out there who just spend their lives spending you crap on social media.
* well maybe not Starmer, as nobody seems to care about him one way or another.
Despite Brexit....Because of Brexit....delete as appropriate.
Because of Brexit.
In order to secure supply chains there was an inevitability than domestically consumed supplies would be best made in the UK.
So in the credit column we have vaccines, namely we have them all and the EU have none (granted, a big plus) and Heinz has moved production of HP sauce from the Netherlands to Wigan.
Is there anything you can think of for the debit column? No, OK.
I think you mean anything else in the credit column?...no?
Also the EU doesn't have "none". After a slow start they are getting there. Also if we have them all why is it that we are still languishing in the 90% and 50%?
No. The jolly band of Brexiteers seem keen to promote the positives, but seem reluctant to accede to any negatives. Maybe fresh soft fruit rotting in the fields due to a lack of European labour is a good thing. What do I know?
It’s not a good thing at all. People who have been claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance for more than a month or two should be made to take a job picking that fruit or lose their benefits
What we don’t want anymore is a part of the population who think they are too good for hard work and that it’s for Eastern Europeans to do instead
Jesus College wants to hide a plaque (and put it in a side room) of a guy who gave them 2000 quid in 1671 equivalent to 450k now to fund scholarships for orphaned children of Anglican clergy, because of his links to the slave trade.
Eastasia has always been at war with Oceania.
Net net the guy probably created more orphans than he helped. At least now others facing a similar quandary about how to deal with these issues can ask "what would Jesus do?"
What's the extent of his connection?
If he had the readies to hand over £450k in today's money I am guessing it was more than tangential.
The slave trade was the only way to make money? Do you know who the donor was?
Tobias Rustat
It's good to see some donors standing for facing history, rather than hiding from it.
I'm not sure what the CofE will do; there's currently a rather questionable panel on the issue, and Oxford Diocese is a little quixotic. It may get driven by pandering to the politics.
Mr. Royale, as an aside, the iconoclasts ended up losing in Byzantium.
They destroyed a lot of priceless art in the intervening period, though.
That's also the problem with the put everything in a museum idea - even if they wanted to most art probably doesnt get displayed, so in practice it's just removing stuff. Much worthy stuff hidden.
Along with a larger amount of non worthy of course.
Despite Brexit....Because of Brexit....delete as appropriate.
Because of Brexit.
In order to secure supply chains there was an inevitability than domestically consumed supplies would be best made in the UK.
So in the credit column we have vaccines, namely we have them all and the EU have none (granted, a big plus) and Heinz has moved production of HP sauce from the Netherlands to Wigan.
Is there anything you can think of for the debit column? No, OK.
I think you mean anything else in the credit column?...no?
Also the EU doesn't have "none". After a slow start they are getting there. Also if we have them all why is it that we are still languishing in the 90% and 50%?
No. The jolly band of Brexiteers seem keen to promote the positives, but seem reluctant to accede to any negatives. Maybe fresh soft fruit rotting in the fields due to a lack of European labour is a good thing. What do I know?
It’s not a good thing at all. People who have been claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance for more than a month or two should be made to take a job picking that fruit or lose their benefits
Jesus College wants to hide a plaque (and put it in a side room) of a guy who gave them 2000 quid in 1671 equivalent to 450k now to fund scholarships for orphaned children of Anglican clergy, because of his links to the slave trade.
Eastasia has always been at war with Oceania.
Net net the guy probably created more orphans than he helped. At least now others facing a similar quandary about how to deal with these issues can ask "what would Jesus do?"
What's the extent of his connection?
If he had the readies to hand over £450k in today's money I am guessing it was more than tangential.
The slave trade was the only way to make money? Do you know who the donor was?
Tobias Rustat.
However, Rustat’s involvement in the Royal African Company, which transported almost 150,000 slaves to the Americas, led the college to address his legacy by removing a portrait and renaming the “Rustat feast” previously held in his honour.
IIRC The RAC (not the rival to the AA) transported more slaves to America during the transAtlantic slave trade than any other company.
The head of Jesus College is a descendent of slaves. It would seem odd to make her sit through a feast named in honour of someone who profited from the murder and exploitation of her ancestors. Although I suspect her ancestry helps to explain some of the frothing on the topic in the right wing press. Nothing gets these people upset more than a woman of colour in a position of authority.
To be clear, you have no evidence but are keen to call people racists because you have a "suspiscion".
It's a pattern. Meghan Markle. Naomi Osaka. Which MP gets more hate mail than all others? (Diane Abbot). I doubt Jesus College is the only Oxbridge College doing this. But this is the one in the news. You have to ask yourself why. So yes, I do have a "suspiscion" or perhaps "suspicion" as I like to call it.
"I doubt." Why not find out?
Osaka is Japanese - do all foreigners look the same to you? I would never have noticed markle was black if she didn't bang on about it, and I had no idea this Jesus woman was until you raised it. You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with racial origins. Let me assure you that we are in a very real sense all god's chillun.
While Boris tied the knot at the weekend, Cameron’s old Notting Hill Set cast more lonely figures in Porto, as they arrived to watch the Champions League Final. George Osborne turned up on his tod, notably without his fiancé Thea Rogers. Neither has Rogers been seen in their new Somerset home for some time…
Guido also spots Gove made the trip, again on his own, making full use of the government’s green travel list.
Unfortunately for Michael, one local eye-witness reports he was shortly “hounded out” of the bar pictured above.
Despite Brexit....Because of Brexit....delete as appropriate.
Because of Brexit.
In order to secure supply chains there was an inevitability than domestically consumed supplies would be best made in the UK.
So in the credit column we have vaccines, namely we have them all and the EU have none (granted, a big plus) and Heinz has moved production of HP sauce from the Netherlands to Wigan.
Is there anything you can think of for the debit column? No, OK.
I think you mean anything else in the credit column?...no?
Also the EU doesn't have "none". After a slow start they are getting there. Also if we have them all why is it that we are still languishing in the 90% and 50%?
No. The jolly band of Brexiteers seem keen to promote the positives, but seem reluctant to accede to any negatives. Maybe fresh soft fruit rotting in the fields due to a lack of European labour is a good thing. What do I know?
It’s not a good thing at all. People who have been claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance for more than a month or two should be made to take a job picking that fruit or lose their benefits
Good luck with that.
What we don’t want anymore is a part of the population who think they are too good for hard work and that it’s for Eastern Europeans to do instead.
Brexit gives the government the chance to say ‘We have protected these jobs from outside competition, you have a chance to earn a living and better yourself, now get on with it”. If they don’t, then no dole, and offer them out to EU workers.
Despite Brexit....Because of Brexit....delete as appropriate.
Because of Brexit.
In order to secure supply chains there was an inevitability than domestically consumed supplies would be best made in the UK.
So in the credit column we have vaccines, namely we have them all and the EU have none (granted, a big plus) and Heinz has moved production of HP sauce from the Netherlands to Wigan.
Is there anything you can think of for the debit column? No, OK.
I think you mean anything else in the credit column?...no?
Also the EU doesn't have "none". After a slow start they are getting there. Also if we have them all why is it that we are still languishing in the 90% and 50%?
No. The jolly band of Brexiteers seem keen to promote the positives, but seem reluctant to accede to any negatives. Maybe fresh soft fruit rotting in the fields due to a lack of European labour is a good thing. What do I know?
Most of the negatives have been masked by the pandemic. Business will recover from both. The reality is that Brexit was an entirely political effort. There are very few serious economists who think the positives outweigh the negatives. Longer term, who knows? It may be positive, it may be negative, but without a parallel universe and with the masking effect of the pandemic it will largely depend on what people want to believe and which way they voted.
As for statues, Johnathan Sumption is very good on this. He imo rightly notes that the problem with condemning historical values is that that implies that there are some values which are immutable and exist outside our human mores. Which is pretty much how religions operate.
That said I think it entirely reasonable that people, especially people who might be suffering discrimination today, would not want to live in an environment which appears, via its statuary, to celebrate eg slave traders.
That the UK and slavery is so intertwined is of course a more profound puzzle.
On Osaka, people that like watching those post match interviews are weirdos.The gamut of questioning pretty much runs from ‘How does it feel to be/do X?’ to ‘Why are you so utterly shit?’.
Imagine Gary Richardson’s sheux stamping on a human face forever.
Despite Brexit....Because of Brexit....delete as appropriate.
Because of Brexit.
In order to secure supply chains there was an inevitability than domestically consumed supplies would be best made in the UK.
So in the credit column we have vaccines, namely we have them all and the EU have none (granted, a big plus) and Heinz has moved production of HP sauce from the Netherlands to Wigan.
Is there anything you can think of for the debit column? No, OK.
I think you mean anything else in the credit column?...no?
Also the EU doesn't have "none". After a slow start they are getting there. Also if we have them all why is it that we are still languishing in the 90% and 50%?
No. The jolly band of Brexiteers seem keen to promote the positives, but seem reluctant to accede to any negatives. Maybe fresh soft fruit rotting in the fields due to a lack of European labour is a good thing. What do I know?
Most of the negatives have been masked by the pandemic. Business will recover from both. The reality is that Brexit was an entirely political effort. There are very few serious economists who think the positives outweigh the negatives. Longer term, who knows? It may be positive, it may be negative, but without a parallel universe and with the masking effect of the pandemic it will largely depend on what people want to believe and which way they voted.
Mr. Eagles, you'll be devastated when you hear of what Caesar did to the Thuringii.
Personally I'm not keen on Churchill College, Cambridge. They should abolish that.
Forget the fact that Churchill was a war criminal and racist they should abolish it for being a JCL college.
And Jesus College. That should definitely go.
Is Jesus getting cancelled? I would have thought he was woker than woke (for his time). - Leftwing firebrand (money lender incident) - Standing up for the rights of depised minorities (tax collectors) - Forgiving of members of the oldest profession (the sinful woman) And, above all, he was successful and popular (for a time, at least) despite being in a minority ethnic group (white, as we know from the pictures)
I fail to see the basis for cancelling Jesus.
Jesus was OK with slavery and used slavery often in his parables. Unsurprisingly since slavery was entirely normal in his day.
Which shows the problem of reading morality of the present into the past, and vice versa.
Doubtful if there is evidence either way that Jesus was OK with slavery. Some evidence that Paul was OK with moderated slavery, defo would not have been OK with sexual abuse/coercion as part of slavery as the same rules in early Christianity applied to everyone - one of its popular features with middling and lower sorts.
Then slavery is a multi faceted concept. What about the master slave relationship between Cicero and Tiro for example. I suspect he had a much better life than some non slave third world factory workers.
I am, being an atheist, very far from being an expert, but cautiously propose the following thought: Jesus was not a revolutionary: he was very much in the mold of dealing with the world as it is, not as he or anyone else would like it to be. His morality was based on what an inidividual should do, rather than how the collective should coerce the individual to be. ("render unto caesar what is due to caesar undo to God what is due to God", or however it went.) Therefore - not woke. My knowledge of the Bible is very scant indeed, though, and I may be wrong.
Well indeed. As is virtually always the case with organised religions, it's ran and operated and recorded ultimately by the people in charge. Who have little interest in ongoing revolutions, even if they detail some in the past.
Only someone naive would expect no cultural or social changes that render much of the text moot twenty centuries later. Or vice versa judge those of 2000 years ago by today's standards.
On Osaka, people that like watching those post match interviews are weirdos.The gamut of questioning pretty much runs from ‘How does it feel to be/do X?’ to ‘Why are you so utterly shit?’.
Imagine Gary Richardson’s sheux stamping on a human face forever.
Post-fight interviews are often very illuminating and incorporate the prep, the opponent, the fight, and possible future opponents.
Post-(horse) race interviews less so: "he's come over the last and I've asked him for a big effort and he just kept on galloping..." etc
Mr. Royale, as an aside, the iconoclasts ended up losing in Byzantium.
They destroyed a lot of priceless art in the intervening period, though.
That's also the problem with the put everything in a museum idea - even if they wanted to most art probably doesnt get displayed, so in practice it's just removing stuff. Much worthy stuff hidden.
Along with a larger amount of non worthy of course.
Yes it is idiotic. Much better to put up a plaque and say "this statue is of a slave trader. x number of slaves died. The statue is left here not to commemorate him, but to commemorate those who's lives were destroyed by slavery" or such like
Despite Brexit....Because of Brexit....delete as appropriate.
Because of Brexit.
In order to secure supply chains there was an inevitability than domestically consumed supplies would be best made in the UK.
So in the credit column we have vaccines, namely we have them all and the EU have none (granted, a big plus) and Heinz has moved production of HP sauce from the Netherlands to Wigan.
Is there anything you can think of for the debit column? No, OK.
I think you mean anything else in the credit column?...no?
Also the EU doesn't have "none". After a slow start they are getting there. Also if we have them all why is it that we are still languishing in the 90% and 50%?
No. The jolly band of Brexiteers seem keen to promote the positives, but seem reluctant to accede to any negatives. Maybe fresh soft fruit rotting in the fields due to a lack of European labour is a good thing. What do I know?
Well if they pay enough wages they will get the staff. Or should we use foreigners as cheap scab labour?
Personally I see rising wages of those with the hardest jobs and least protection as a very good thing. But that might just be me.
Jesus College wants to hide a plaque (and put it in a side room) of a guy who gave them 2000 quid in 1671 equivalent to 450k now to fund scholarships for orphaned children of Anglican clergy, because of his links to the slave trade.
Eastasia has always been at war with Oceania.
Net net the guy probably created more orphans than he helped. At least now others facing a similar quandary about how to deal with these issues can ask "what would Jesus do?"
What's the extent of his connection?
If he had the readies to hand over £450k in today's money I am guessing it was more than tangential.
The slave trade was the only way to make money? Do you know who the donor was?
Tobias Rustat.
However, Rustat’s involvement in the Royal African Company, which transported almost 150,000 slaves to the Americas, led the college to address his legacy by removing a portrait and renaming the “Rustat feast” previously held in his honour.
IIRC The RAC (not the rival to the AA) transported more slaves to America during the transAtlantic slave trade than any other company.
The head of Jesus College is a descendent of slaves. It would seem odd to make her sit through a feast named in honour of someone who profited from the murder and exploitation of her ancestors. Although I suspect her ancestry helps to explain some of the frothing on the topic in the right wing press. Nothing gets these people upset more than a woman of colour in a position of authority.
To be clear, you have no evidence but are keen to call people racists because you have a "suspiscion".
It's a pattern. Meghan Markle. Naomi Osaka. Which MP gets more hate mail than all others? (Diane Abbot). I doubt Jesus College is the only Oxbridge College doing this. But this is the one in the news. You have to ask yourself why. So yes, I do have a "suspiscion" or perhaps "suspicion" as I like to call it.
Fake News about Diane Abbot.
So who gets the most hate mail - as it wouldn't surprise me she gets the most...
Despite Brexit....Because of Brexit....delete as appropriate.
Because of Brexit.
In order to secure supply chains there was an inevitability than domestically consumed supplies would be best made in the UK.
So in the credit column we have vaccines, namely we have them all and the EU have none (granted, a big plus) and Heinz has moved production of HP sauce from the Netherlands to Wigan.
Is there anything you can think of for the debit column? No, OK.
I think you mean anything else in the credit column?...no?
Also the EU doesn't have "none". After a slow start they are getting there. Also if we have them all why is it that we are still languishing in the 90% and 50%?
No. The jolly band of Brexiteers seem keen to promote the positives, but seem reluctant to accede to any negatives. Maybe fresh soft fruit rotting in the fields due to a lack of European labour is a good thing. What do I know?
It’s not a good thing at all. People who have been claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance for more than a month or two should be made to take a job picking that fruit or lose their benefits
Good luck with that.
What we don’t want anymore is a part of the population who think they are too good for hard work and that it’s for Eastern Europeans to do instead.
Brexit gives the government the chance to say ‘We have protected these jobs from outside competition, you have a chance to earn a living and better yourself, now get on with it”. If they don’t, then no dole, and offer them out to EU workers.
So everyone says no thanks we'd rather be social media influencers and so we're back to having EU workers. Cannot see that ending well.
Jesus College wants to hide a plaque (and put it in a side room) of a guy who gave them 2000 quid in 1671 equivalent to 450k now to fund scholarships for orphaned children of Anglican clergy, because of his links to the slave trade.
Eastasia has always been at war with Oceania.
Net net the guy probably created more orphans than he helped. At least now others facing a similar quandary about how to deal with these issues can ask "what would Jesus do?"
What's the extent of his connection?
If he had the readies to hand over £450k in today's money I am guessing it was more than tangential.
The slave trade was the only way to make money? Do you know who the donor was?
Perhaps he’d made a bucket of ducats from providing ppe against ye plague
On Osaka, people that like watching those post match interviews are weirdos.The gamut of questioning pretty much runs from ‘How does it feel to be/do X?’ to ‘Why are you so utterly shit?’.
Imagine Gary Richardson’s sheux stamping on a human face forever.
Oh good grief yes indeed.
"How good does it feel...?" "How much does it mean to you...?" "How disappointed are you ...?"
Or alternatively, an attempt to berate players for losing and not being good enough or not trying hard enough.
Most post-match interviews are asinine in the extreme. (I'm looking at YOU, Sonia McLaughlin.) You could replace all of them with the observation that the better team/player won and appears happy as a result before returning to the studio to replay the best bits.
Jesus College wants to hide a plaque (and put it in a side room) of a guy who gave them 2000 quid in 1671 equivalent to 450k now to fund scholarships for orphaned children of Anglican clergy, because of his links to the slave trade.
Eastasia has always been at war with Oceania.
Net net the guy probably created more orphans than he helped. At least now others facing a similar quandary about how to deal with these issues can ask "what would Jesus do?"
What's the extent of his connection?
If he had the readies to hand over £450k in today's money I am guessing it was more than tangential.
The slave trade was the only way to make money? Do you know who the donor was?
Tobias Rustat.
However, Rustat’s involvement in the Royal African Company, which transported almost 150,000 slaves to the Americas, led the college to address his legacy by removing a portrait and renaming the “Rustat feast” previously held in his honour.
IIRC The RAC (not the rival to the AA) transported more slaves to America during the transAtlantic slave trade than any other company.
The head of Jesus College is a descendent of slaves. It would seem odd to make her sit through a feast named in honour of someone who profited from the murder and exploitation of her ancestors. Although I suspect her ancestry helps to explain some of the frothing on the topic in the right wing press. Nothing gets these people upset more than a woman of colour in a position of authority.
To be clear, you have no evidence but are keen to call people racists because you have a "suspiscion".
It's a pattern. Meghan Markle. Naomi Osaka. Which MP gets more hate mail than all others? (Diane Abbot). I doubt Jesus College is the only Oxbridge College doing this. But this is the one in the news. You have to ask yourself why. So yes, I do have a "suspiscion" or perhaps "suspicion" as I like to call it.
Fake News about Diane Abbot.
So who gets the most hate mail - as it wouldn't surprise me she gets the most...
Despite Brexit....Because of Brexit....delete as appropriate.
Because of Brexit.
In order to secure supply chains there was an inevitability than domestically consumed supplies would be best made in the UK.
So in the credit column we have vaccines, namely we have them all and the EU have none (granted, a big plus) and Heinz has moved production of HP sauce from the Netherlands to Wigan.
Is there anything you can think of for the debit column? No, OK.
I think you mean anything else in the credit column?...no?
Also the EU doesn't have "none". After a slow start they are getting there. Also if we have them all why is it that we are still languishing in the 90% and 50%?
No. The jolly band of Brexiteers seem keen to promote the positives, but seem reluctant to accede to any negatives. Maybe fresh soft fruit rotting in the fields due to a lack of European labour is a good thing. What do I know?
It’s not a good thing at all. People who have been claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance for more than a month or two should be made to take a job picking that fruit or lose their benefits
Good luck with that.
What we don’t want anymore is a part of the population who think they are too good for hard work and that it’s for Eastern Europeans to do instead.
Brexit gives the government the chance to say ‘We have protected these jobs from outside competition, you have a chance to earn a living and better yourself, now get on with it”. If they don’t, then no dole, and offer them out to EU workers.
Funny. I thought you were in favour of the free market.
Most tv sports "analysis" and interviews is utter bollocks....10 mins reading the Athletic, watching Tifo Football or looking at StatsBomb output and you see what utter nothing burgers Gary Big Jugs and alike are spouting.
I listened to a 30 mins interview with Sam Billings a while ago talking about modern T20. In those 30 mins I learned more about the modern game than hours and hours of test match unspecial or even worse the BBC coverage of T20 last summer that only had one elite T20 player in the commentatary team....
All the horseshit about strike rate of this player vs that player, is just that. Modern T20 tactics aren't thinking about that at all. It is all about matchups.
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
They started the culture war; we will finish it.
Well I guess he has already achieved one of his objectives in that war: getting publicity from all-too-easily-angry right wingers who like to get cross about Professors of Sociology. I suspect even he doesn't believe all statues should be taken down, but it has got him some good controversial publicity.
I have always thought that history does genuinely repeat itself because the nature of human psychology. There is some symmetry between the bossy natured wokeists and the puritans who believed all statues and symbols were idolatrous and papist. Some people just love to force their view of the world onto others.
Oriel College basically said they couldn't take down their statue of Rhodes on their property even though they wanted to because the government would block it. So who is forcing their opinion on whom here?
The government said that they’d need planning permission to make changes to a listed building.
Which is no more than a statement of fact - changes to listed buildings require consent.
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
Or does he get a pass from the likes of Prof Pillock, because he had the "right" opinions on other things?
The thing is even if they would all be taken down, it would be on to the next thing that needs cancelling...its like XR, these bad faith actors, nothing but the total and utter destruction of the current system will be enough (and in the case of XR, they have admitted this).
In at least a tongue-in-cheek sense, Younge has a point. Almost no-one looks at statues (and when they do, often they are not very good). You could probably replace all of them with figures of Boris Johnson and no-one would notice. Though conversely, if the people who complain didn't complain, probably no-one would take offence.
If you spoil Lichfield with statues of A Johnson, I will *certainly* notice.
Strange how all the screeching over "digital covid certificates" in the UK, but the EU are going to have them. I presume all the #FBPE will be saying evidence of the brilliance of the EU.
Everyone who wants to travel internationally will likely need them as IATA/ICAO are working on them, so once that work is done covid cerfiticates will be adopted by all sorts of countries.
Jesus College wants to hide a plaque (and put it in a side room) of a guy who gave them 2000 quid in 1671 equivalent to 450k now to fund scholarships for orphaned children of Anglican clergy, because of his links to the slave trade.
Eastasia has always been at war with Oceania.
Net net the guy probably created more orphans than he helped. At least now others facing a similar quandary about how to deal with these issues can ask "what would Jesus do?"
What's the extent of his connection?
If he had the readies to hand over £450k in today's money I am guessing it was more than tangential.
The slave trade was the only way to make money? Do you know who the donor was?
Tobias Rustat.
However, Rustat’s involvement in the Royal African Company, which transported almost 150,000 slaves to the Americas, led the college to address his legacy by removing a portrait and renaming the “Rustat feast” previously held in his honour.
IIRC The RAC (not the rival to the AA) transported more slaves to America during the transAtlantic slave trade than any other company.
The head of Jesus College is a descendent of slaves. It would seem odd to make her sit through a feast named in honour of someone who profited from the murder and exploitation of her ancestors. Although I suspect her ancestry helps to explain some of the frothing on the topic in the right wing press. Nothing gets these people upset more than a woman of colour in a position of authority.
To be clear, you have no evidence but are keen to call people racists because you have a "suspiscion".
It's a pattern. Meghan Markle. Naomi Osaka. Which MP gets more hate mail than all others? (Diane Abbot). I doubt Jesus College is the only Oxbridge College doing this. But this is the one in the news. You have to ask yourself why. So yes, I do have a "suspiscion" or perhaps "suspicion" as I like to call it.
Fake News about Diane Abbot.
So who gets the most hate mail - as it wouldn't surprise me she gets the most...
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
They started the culture war; we will finish it.
It's really not The Guardian saying all statues should come down. It's Gary Younge in an opinion piece. I do hope you don't want his opinion cancelled.
Of course not, but there are very similar articles to this in The Guardian and even editorials.
He got it published here because they knew a significant part of their readership base would lap it up, and for the clickbait driving traffic to their site.
Strange how all the screeching over "digital covid certificates" in the UK, but the EU are going to have them. I presume all the #FBPE will be saying evidence of the brilliance of the EU.
Everyone who wants to travel internationally will likely need them as IATA/ICAO are working on them, so once that work is done covid cerfiticates will be adopted by all sorts of countries.
Different issue, it's their use in the domestic economy that people weren't happy about. If the EU is planning to adopt vaccine passports for bars and restaurants it would be a huge shock, I can't see how that would work in the Med or for tourists whose medical records won't be available to the EU.
Jesus College wants to hide a plaque (and put it in a side room) of a guy who gave them 2000 quid in 1671 equivalent to 450k now to fund scholarships for orphaned children of Anglican clergy, because of his links to the slave trade.
Eastasia has always been at war with Oceania.
Net net the guy probably created more orphans than he helped. At least now others facing a similar quandary about how to deal with these issues can ask "what would Jesus do?"
What's the extent of his connection?
If he had the readies to hand over £450k in today's money I am guessing it was more than tangential.
The slave trade was the only way to make money? Do you know who the donor was?
Tobias Rustat.
However, Rustat’s involvement in the Royal African Company, which transported almost 150,000 slaves to the Americas, led the college to address his legacy by removing a portrait and renaming the “Rustat feast” previously held in his honour.
IIRC The RAC (not the rival to the AA) transported more slaves to America during the transAtlantic slave trade than any other company.
The head of Jesus College is a descendent of slaves. It would seem odd to make her sit through a feast named in honour of someone who profited from the murder and exploitation of her ancestors. Although I suspect her ancestry helps to explain some of the frothing on the topic in the right wing press. Nothing gets these people upset more than a woman of colour in a position of authority.
To be clear, you have no evidence but are keen to call people racists because you have a "suspiscion".
It's a pattern. Meghan Markle. Naomi Osaka. Which MP gets more hate mail than all others? (Diane Abbot). I doubt Jesus College is the only Oxbridge College doing this. But this is the one in the news. You have to ask yourself why. So yes, I do have a "suspiscion" or perhaps "suspicion" as I like to call it.
Fake News about Diane Abbot.
So who gets the most hate mail - as it wouldn't surprise me she gets the most...
While Boris tied the knot at the weekend, Cameron’s old Notting Hill Set cast more lonely figures in Porto, as they arrived to watch the Champions League Final. George Osborne turned up on his tod, notably without his fiancé Thea Rogers. Neither has Rogers been seen in their new Somerset home for some time…
Guido also spots Gove made the trip, again on his own, making full use of the government’s green travel list.
Unfortunately for Michael, one local eye-witness reports he was shortly “hounded out” of the bar pictured above.
Jesus College wants to hide a plaque (and put it in a side room) of a guy who gave them 2000 quid in 1671 equivalent to 450k now to fund scholarships for orphaned children of Anglican clergy, because of his links to the slave trade.
Eastasia has always been at war with Oceania.
Net net the guy probably created more orphans than he helped. At least now others facing a similar quandary about how to deal with these issues can ask "what would Jesus do?"
What's the extent of his connection?
If he had the readies to hand over £450k in today's money I am guessing it was more than tangential.
The slave trade was the only way to make money? Do you know who the donor was?
Tobias Rustat.
However, Rustat’s involvement in the Royal African Company, which transported almost 150,000 slaves to the Americas, led the college to address his legacy by removing a portrait and renaming the “Rustat feast” previously held in his honour.
IIRC The RAC (not the rival to the AA) transported more slaves to America during the transAtlantic slave trade than any other company.
The head of Jesus College is a descendent of slaves. It would seem odd to make her sit through a feast named in honour of someone who profited from the murder and exploitation of her ancestors. Although I suspect her ancestry helps to explain some of the frothing on the topic in the right wing press. Nothing gets these people upset more than a woman of colour in a position of authority.
To be clear, you have no evidence but are keen to call people racists because you have a "suspiscion".
It's a pattern. Meghan Markle. Naomi Osaka. Which MP gets more hate mail than all others? (Diane Abbot). I doubt Jesus College is the only Oxbridge College doing this. But this is the one in the news. You have to ask yourself why. So yes, I do have a "suspiscion" or perhaps "suspicion" as I like to call it.
Fake News about Diane Abbot.
So who gets the most hate mail - as it wouldn't surprise me she gets the most...
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
They started the culture war; we will finish it.
I can certainly take his point to a degree, but I dont really understand one if his propositions, that Britain is particularly statue obsessed, as part of seeking to petrify history (nice pun).
National historical myths and statues of past figured dont seem particularly unique to Britain.
In seeking to building a better tomorrow, agonising over statues of historical figures is an utter irrelevancy - people suspect that anyone who really does so has another hidden agenda, which of course they do. All it does is polarise and divide people, and poisons the well.
We should focus on building on our history not driving a wrecking ball through it.
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
They started the culture war; we will finish it.
It's really not The Guardian saying all statues should come down. It's Gary Younge in an opinion piece. I do hope you don't want his opinion cancelled.
Of course not, but there are very similar articles to this in The Guardian and even editorials.
He got it published here because they knew a significant part of their readership base would lap it up, and for the clickbait driving traffic to their site.
Or a clickbait article that they knew would wind up the serried ranks of ‘the centre right’? Perhaps those pinko jellyfish are shaping up in the culture war.
There's something very Brexity and populist about that headline. It's as if Johnson wrote it. Perhaps he did, knowing how things are these days.
Point is, tomato ketchup is so relatable for the masses. Absolutely no whiff of liberal elite about it. Ketchup in, Kefir out.
I see this piece of news going down a storm in the Red Wall. "It's coming home, it's coming home, it's coming ..." they'll be singing.
I'm being totally serious. It's a small thing, this, but the things are mounting up. Johnson is reaching places that in a saner, better world he shouldn't and wouldn't.
When the church bells peal and the guns fall silent please take time to remember those that fall in your war.
We had to go. We didn't have to come back.
Despite your previous orgasmic enthusiasm for iconoclasm last year when it seemed like they were all coming down it must be really galling for you now to realise that you're going to LOSE.
At least 16 members of the armed forces have been referred to the UK’s terrorism prevention programme – in the majority of cases because of concerns about far-right activity.
Soldiers, air force and naval personnel were among those investigated over the past two and a half years under Prevent, which aims to stop people becoming radicalised, according to figures obtained by the Guardian under freedom of information.
The figures reveal 14 investigations were carried out in 2019 into serving armed forces personnel. Eleven stemmed from far-right concerns.
Jesus College wants to hide a plaque (and put it in a side room) of a guy who gave them 2000 quid in 1671 equivalent to 450k now to fund scholarships for orphaned children of Anglican clergy, because of his links to the slave trade.
Eastasia has always been at war with Oceania.
Net net the guy probably created more orphans than he helped. At least now others facing a similar quandary about how to deal with these issues can ask "what would Jesus do?"
What's the extent of his connection?
If he had the readies to hand over £450k in today's money I am guessing it was more than tangential.
The slave trade was the only way to make money? Do you know who the donor was?
Tobias Rustat.
However, Rustat’s involvement in the Royal African Company, which transported almost 150,000 slaves to the Americas, led the college to address his legacy by removing a portrait and renaming the “Rustat feast” previously held in his honour.
IIRC The RAC (not the rival to the AA) transported more slaves to America during the transAtlantic slave trade than any other company.
The head of Jesus College is a descendent of slaves. It would seem odd to make her sit through a feast named in honour of someone who profited from the murder and exploitation of her ancestors. Although I suspect her ancestry helps to explain some of the frothing on the topic in the right wing press. Nothing gets these people upset more than a woman of colour in a position of authority.
To be clear, you have no evidence but are keen to call people racists because you have a "suspiscion".
It's a pattern. Meghan Markle. Naomi Osaka. Which MP gets more hate mail than all others? (Diane Abbot). I doubt Jesus College is the only Oxbridge College doing this. But this is the one in the news. You have to ask yourself why. So yes, I do have a "suspiscion" or perhaps "suspicion" as I like to call it.
Fake News about Diane Abbot.
So who gets the most hate mail - as it wouldn't surprise me she gets the most...
Despite Brexit....Because of Brexit....delete as appropriate.
Because of Brexit.
In order to secure supply chains there was an inevitability than domestically consumed supplies would be best made in the UK.
So in the credit column we have vaccines, namely we have them all and the EU have none (granted, a big plus) and Heinz has moved production of HP sauce from the Netherlands to Wigan.
Is there anything you can think of for the debit column? No, OK.
I think you mean anything else in the credit column?...no?
Also the EU doesn't have "none". After a slow start they are getting there. Also if we have them all why is it that we are still languishing in the 90% and 50%?
No. The jolly band of Brexiteers seem keen to promote the positives, but seem reluctant to accede to any negatives. Maybe fresh soft fruit rotting in the fields due to a lack of European labour is a good thing. What do I know?
Most of the negatives have been masked by the pandemic. Business will recover from both. The reality is that Brexit was an entirely political effort. There are very few serious economists who think the positives outweigh the negatives. Longer term, who knows? It may be positive, it may be negative, but without a parallel universe and with the masking effect of the pandemic it will largely depend on what people want to believe and which way they voted.
That's a fair view.
My view is that Brexit is largely irrelevant, economically, in the longer-term and I said so in May 2016.
There's something very Brexity and populist about that headline. It's as if Johnson wrote it. Perhaps he did, knowing how things are these days.
Point is, tomato ketchup is so relatable for the masses. Absolutely no whiff of liberal elite about it. Ketchup in, Kefir out.
I see this piece of news going down a storm in the Red Wall. "It's coming home, it's coming home, it's coming ..." they'll be singing.
I'm being totally serious. It's a small thing, this, but the things are mounting up. Johnson is reaching places that in a saner, better world he shouldn't and wouldn't.
So creating jobs and bringing investment in is bad because Boris might get a few extra votes? That's one way to look at it, I guess.
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
They started the culture war; we will finish it.
Well I guess he has already achieved one of his objectives in that war: getting publicity from all-too-easily-angry right wingers who like to get cross about Professors of Sociology. I suspect even he doesn't believe all statues should be taken down, but it has got him some good controversial publicity.
I have always thought that history does genuinely repeat itself because the nature of human psychology. There is some symmetry between the bossy natured wokeists and the puritans who believed all statues and symbols were idolatrous and papist. Some people just love to force their view of the world onto others.
Oriel College basically said they couldn't take down their statue of Rhodes on their property even though they wanted to because the government would block it. So who is forcing their opinion on whom here?
We are. And quite right too.
Marxist iconoclasm is the obsession of a tiny minority of loudmouths in this country.
It's quite right they've felt the smack of firm Government in the last few months.
Different issue, it's their use in the domestic economy that people weren't happy about. If the EU is planning to adopt vaccine passports for bars and restaurants it would be a huge shock, I can't see how that would work in the Med or for tourists whose medical records won't be available to the EU.
I agree it's a different use, but in practice it could be the same certificate. And if people think "I won't have one" they need to realise they may not be able to leave the country as a result.
Mr. Royale, as an aside, the iconoclasts ended up losing in Byzantium.
They destroyed a lot of priceless art in the intervening period, though.
That's also the problem with the put everything in a museum idea - even if they wanted to most art probably doesnt get displayed, so in practice it's just removing stuff. Much worthy stuff hidden.
Along with a larger amount of non worthy of course.
One of the biggest mass destructions of national art was of religious art (which represented most 'art') during the Reformation, especially in England and Wales. Coupled of course with the Puritan destructions 120 or so years later.
There's something very Brexity and populist about that headline. It's as if Johnson wrote it. Perhaps he did, knowing how things are these days.
Point is, tomato ketchup is so relatable for the masses. Absolutely no whiff of liberal elite about it. Ketchup in, Kefir out.
I see this piece of news going down a storm in the Red Wall. "It's coming home, it's coming home, it's coming ..." they'll be singing.
I'm being totally serious. It's a small thing, this, but the things are mounting up. Johnson is reaching places that in a saner, better world he shouldn't and wouldn't.
So creating jobs and bringing investment in is bad because Boris might get a few extra votes? That's one way to look at it, I guess.
I didn't read the comment that way. I read it as lamenting that some good news unfortunately has the side effect of helping Boris cement his political hold on things, particularly in relation to the red wall and long term that is bad, not that investment is bad because of that.
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
They started the culture war; we will finish it.
I can certainly take his point to a degree, but I dont really understand one if his propositions, that Britain is particularly statue obsessed, as part of seeking to petrify history (nice pun).
National historical myths and statues of past figured dont seem particularly unique to Britain.
In seeking to building a better tomorrow, agonising over statues of historical figures is an utter irrelevancy - people suspect that anyone who really does so has another hidden agenda, which of course they do. All it does is polarise and divide people, and poisons the well.
We should focus on building on our history not driving a wrecking ball through it.
Perhaps I am strange but I enjoy looking at statues. When I am abroad I often look at the statues and make a note of the name if it is not one I am familiar with and look it up afterwards. I also enjoy visiting cemeteries and do the same regarding large monuments.
I don't agree that most statues are rubbish; I visited the workshop of the sculptor Philip Jackson pre-Covid and I am impressed by his work and the research that he does for his statues. I accept that some statues might need reassessment but I fear a wave of iconaclasm.
At least 16 members of the armed forces have been referred to the UK’s terrorism prevention programme – in the majority of cases because of concerns about far-right activity.
Soldiers, air force and naval personnel were among those investigated over the past two and a half years under Prevent, which aims to stop people becoming radicalised, according to figures obtained by the Guardian under freedom of information.
The figures reveal 14 investigations were carried out in 2019 into serving armed forces personnel. Eleven stemmed from far-right concerns.
Tories have been cutting defence for decades. An opportunistic (or even awake) Labour leader would make more of this, although Boris would say Labour will disband the army.
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
They started the culture war; we will finish it.
Well I guess he has already achieved one of his objectives in that war: getting publicity from all-too-easily-angry right wingers who like to get cross about Professors of Sociology. I suspect even he doesn't believe all statues should be taken down, but it has got him some good controversial publicity.
I have always thought that history does genuinely repeat itself because the nature of human psychology. There is some symmetry between the bossy natured wokeists and the puritans who believed all statues and symbols were idolatrous and papist. Some people just love to force their view of the world onto others.
Oriel College basically said they couldn't take down their statue of Rhodes on their property even though they wanted to because the government would block it. So who is forcing their opinion on whom here?
Which is Oriel talking diversionary bollocks. Unless the statue is considered to be listed as part of the facade of the college - which it probably is, thinking about it. So they would need to a apply to modify the facade (remove the statue).
Historic England aren't what most people would think of as the government, though.
All of this is diversionary bollocks. It's the obsession of far-Left narcissists and nihilists wanting to make a name for themselves, and Marxists who want to pull down the symbols and culture of Britain in the belief that what's already there is an obstacle to
I've spoken to many black colleagues over the last year. What they want is more role models that look like them at the top, far more mentoring and coaching, more inclusion in people's social and professional networks, more positive stories about them in the media, an end to being judged negatively by the authorities, and to being treated differently by regular people because of how they look.
Not a single one mentioned statues as an issue, and the only one who did said so in the context of being worrying they'd be blamed for being the cause of an assault on British history which would make things worse.
When the church bells peal and the guns fall silent please take time to remember those that fall in your war.
We had to go. We didn't have to come back.
Despite your previous orgasmic enthusiasm for iconoclasm last year when it seemed like they were all coming down it must be really galling for you now to realise that you're going to LOSE.
Some of us prefer to avoid 'winning'* or 'losing' by simply not taking part.
Instead - if we can be bothered to take notice at all - simply getting in the popcorn, watching woke and antiwoke** take chunks out of each other and enjoy the wind-up merchants getting responses beyond their wildest dreams.
* there is only losing, I think ** is there a better term? slept? gammon?
Edit: Just seen your reply to Malmesbury. Yep, I agree completely. It's all fluff and there are moe important things (where we differ, I think, is that I don't care if a university/college decides to take some statues down as long as they're also doing stuff that actually matters)
Despite Brexit....Because of Brexit....delete as appropriate.
Because of Brexit.
In order to secure supply chains there was an inevitability than domestically consumed supplies would be best made in the UK.
So in the credit column we have vaccines, namely we have them all and the EU have none (granted, a big plus) and Heinz has moved production of HP sauce from the Netherlands to Wigan.
Is there anything you can think of for the debit column? No, OK.
I think you mean anything else in the credit column?...no?
Also the EU doesn't have "none". After a slow start they are getting there. Also if we have them all why is it that we are still languishing in the 90% and 50%?
No. The jolly band of Brexiteers seem keen to promote the positives, but seem reluctant to accede to any negatives. Maybe fresh soft fruit rotting in the fields due to a lack of European labour is a good thing. What do I know?
Most of the negatives have been masked by the pandemic. Business will recover from both. The reality is that Brexit was an entirely political effort. There are very few serious economists who think the positives outweigh the negatives. Longer term, who knows? It may be positive, it may be negative, but without a parallel universe and with the masking effect of the pandemic it will largely depend on what people want to believe and which way they voted.
That's a fair view.
My view is that Brexit is largely irrelevant, economically, in the longer-term and I said so in May 2016.
Yes, I think it won't make much difference to the bottom line. Brexit has always been a political and culturally driven process. It was the UK saying "we have no master" to the EU. What will be interesting is how views on the EU change once it becomes clear that brexit is neither here nor there when it comes to the wider economy. There aren't many people who feel culturally European and are attached to the EU for reasons of culture. If you reran the referendum without economic project fear on the remain side the result would have been a landslide as loads of people voted remain because they were convinced by it despite wanting out of the political side of the EU.
Of course, he's a Professor of Sociology at University of Manchester. This is why the centre-right is putting up such a ferocious resistance to these nihilistic morons.
Or does he get a pass from the likes of Prof Pillock, because he had the "right" opinions on other things?
The thing is even if they would all be taken down, it would be on to the next thing that needs cancelling...its like XR, these bad faith actors, nothing but the total and utter destruction of the current system will be enough (and in the case of XR, they have admitted this).
In at least a tongue-in-cheek sense, Younge has a point. Almost no-one looks at statues (and when they do, often they are not very good). You could probably replace all of them with figures of Boris Johnson and no-one would notice. Though conversely, if the people who complain didn't complain, probably no-one would take offence.
If you spoil Lichfield with statues of A Johnson, I will *certainly* notice.
We could rebadge the S ones, they're a similar shape.
Mr. Eagles, you'll be devastated when you hear of what Caesar did to the Thuringii.
Personally I'm not keen on Churchill College, Cambridge. They should abolish that.
Forget the fact that Churchill was a war criminal and racist they should abolish it for being a JCL college.
And Jesus College. That should definitely go.
Is Jesus getting cancelled? I would have thought he was woker than woke (for his time). - Leftwing firebrand (money lender incident) - Standing up for the rights of depised minorities (tax collectors) - Forgiving of members of the oldest profession (the sinful woman) And, above all, he was successful and popular (for a time, at least) despite being in a minority ethnic group (white, as we know from the pictures)
I fail to see the basis for cancelling Jesus.
Jesus was OK with slavery and used slavery often in his parables. Unsurprisingly since slavery was entirely normal in his day.
Which shows the problem of reading morality of the present into the past, and vice versa.
Doubtful if there is evidence either way that Jesus was OK with slavery. Some evidence that Paul was OK with moderated slavery, defo would not have been OK with sexual abuse/coercion as part of slavery as the same rules in early Christianity applied to everyone - one of its popular features with middling and lower sorts.
Then slavery is a multi faceted concept. What about the master slave relationship between Cicero and Tiro for example. I suspect he had a much better life than some non slave third world factory workers.
I am, being an atheist, very far from being an expert, but cautiously propose the following thought: Jesus was not a revolutionary: he was very much in the mold of dealing with the world as it is, not as he or anyone else would like it to be. His morality was based on what an inidividual should do, rather than how the collective should coerce the individual to be. ("render unto caesar what is due to caesar undo to God what is due to God", or however it went.) Therefore - not woke. My knowledge of the Bible is very scant indeed, though, and I may be wrong.
Two adjacent thoughts. Many were *expecting* a revolutionary (compare say Castro, Che Guevara type figure) to drive out the Romans and get Israel back. They got someone with a very different vision. Part of the teaching is to debunk that expectation.
You can find material for both individual and communitarian morality / ethics. eg The community in Acts has a common purse, which is modelled in many communities of service since. Which speaks of a balance between the two. There are plenty of communities of service around the country dedicated to different aspects, whether modelling eg integrated living for eg able-bodied / disabled, theraputic communities or more intentional places such as the Bruderhof or similar.
As for statues, Johnathan Sumption is very good on this. He imo rightly notes that the problem with condemning historical values is that that implies that there are some values which are immutable and exist outside our human mores. Which is pretty much how religions operate.
That said I think it entirely reasonable that people, especially people who might be suffering discrimination today, would not want to live in an environment which appears, via its statuary, to celebrate eg slave traders.
That the UK and slavery is so intertwined is of course a more profound puzzle.
A problem with the underlying thinking is this. It is not only to religious people that a proposition like: "Torturing children for fun is always wrong" seems true. And it seems true not because we think it, but that we think it because it is true, and it would still be true even if most people/everyone stopped thinking it. I don't know anyone who is capable of doubting it, and that it is more than just our opinion.
Most religious people have a place for moral objectivity - the idea that somehow things are wrong not only because of our shifting opinions; but so do most non religious people too. It is one of the universe's fascinating mysteries.
As someone who grew up in sight of the largest food processing plant in Europe I smell a rat flavoured with generous ketchup. AIUI, all Heinz UK lines are made at Kitt Green. And have been since the Harlesden plant closed in 2000. The largest Heinz plant in the world. Why would they be imported?
Jesus College wants to hide a plaque (and put it in a side room) of a guy who gave them 2000 quid in 1671 equivalent to 450k now to fund scholarships for orphaned children of Anglican clergy, because of his links to the slave trade.
Eastasia has always been at war with Oceania.
Net net the guy probably created more orphans than he helped. At least now others facing a similar quandary about how to deal with these issues can ask "what would Jesus do?"
What's the extent of his connection?
If he had the readies to hand over £450k in today's money I am guessing it was more than tangential.
The slave trade was the only way to make money? Do you know who the donor was?
Tobias Rustat.
However, Rustat’s involvement in the Royal African Company, which transported almost 150,000 slaves to the Americas, led the college to address his legacy by removing a portrait and renaming the “Rustat feast” previously held in his honour.
IIRC The RAC (not the rival to the AA) transported more slaves to America during the transAtlantic slave trade than any other company.
The head of Jesus College is a descendent of slaves. It would seem odd to make her sit through a feast named in honour of someone who profited from the murder and exploitation of her ancestors. Although I suspect her ancestry helps to explain some of the frothing on the topic in the right wing press. Nothing gets these people upset more than a woman of colour in a position of authority.
It's not the job of a Head of House to seek to eradicate parts of a college's history that might happen to displease her - or, more likely, that other people are using to signal their virtue on her behalf in the event that, like most rational people, she doesn't harbour atavistic resentment from centuries past. She's the custodian of the college's heritage, not its sodding censor.
Comments
Ensure there's a good mix of male/female horses too (chisel again, if needed) and white horses/horses of colour.
I have always thought that history does genuinely repeat itself because the nature of human psychology. There is some symmetry between the bossy natured wokeists and the puritans who believed all statues and symbols were idolatrous and papist. Some people just love to force their view of the world onto others.
Going to be fun when we are on latest variant known as [alpha beta gamma alpha epilson] variant by next summer.
---
I think travelling to f##king India in the middle of a pandemic might be the bloody problem, living in multi-generational households and failing to isolate....
So yes, I do have a "suspiscion" or perhaps "suspicion" as I like to call it.
https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1399645520801456130?s=21
Paul was definitely fine with slavery.
Jesus, I see no evidence he was an abolitionist, which would have been a much greater shock in that era. He uses slaves frequently in his parables, even cruelty to them, without ever questioning whether slavery should be abolished as far as I know.
Which is part and parcel of the past. In the time when the New Testament was written the existence of slavery was just taken for granted. Same as the Old Testament which is why there's no many references to slavery there.
We are in a different era today. Some people want the morality of the past to confine us today, others want to judge those in the past with the morality of the present. Both are preposterous.
Every measure has winners and losers.
Therefore - not woke.
My knowledge of the Bible is very scant indeed, though, and I may be wrong.
In order to secure supply chains there was an inevitability than domestically consumed supplies would be best made in the UK.
So in the credit column we have vaccines, namely we have them all and the EU have none (granted, a big plus) and Heinz has moved production of HP sauce from the Netherlands to Wigan.
Is there anything you can think of for the debit column? No, OK.
National historical myths and statues of past figured dont seem particularly unique to Britain.
So who is forcing their opinion on whom here?
If cases in Brighton remain low or don't rise significantly over the next few weeks, I'd be pretty confident that the Indian variant, or any other variant, is not going to be a huge concern.
Taking same line as govt - wait for data, not dates.
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1399658133430149121?s=20
But if it does get delayed, old Skyr will be straight out the blocks claiming chaos, indecision, I would have said no much earlier.
Also the EU doesn't have "none". After a slow start they are getting there. Also if we have them all why is it that we are still languishing in the 90% and 50%?
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-variants-genomically-confirmed-case-numbers/variants-distribution-of-case-data-27-may-2021
And if you think people won't discriminate....well I bloody hope they do...if we find a new terrible mutant version in such and such a country, we need to stop travel from it. Its just the way it is, no offense to the individuals of that country. Just calling alpha beta gamma sigma and saying well that reduced the stigma, but by the way Romania is now on the travel ban list, why, not saying...taps nose.
That said I think it entirely reasonable that people, especially people who might be suffering discrimination today, would not want to live in an environment which appears, via its statuary, to celebrate eg slave traders.
That the UK and slavery is so intertwined is of course a more profound puzzle.
https://youtu.be/uwz6B8BFkb4
Historic England aren't what most people would think of as the government, though.
As for most hate, well Farage has to be up there...he has to have bodyguards and of course has been assaulted. Jezza also got assaulted. Boris consistently gets masses of abuse.
If you are a high profile politician*, unfortunately, like the footballers, there are twats out there who just spend their lives spending you crap on social media.
* well maybe not Starmer, as nobody seems to care about him one way or another.
What we don’t want anymore is a part of the population who think they are too good for hard work and that it’s for Eastern Europeans to do instead
I'm not sure what the CofE will do; there's currently a rather questionable panel on the issue, and Oxford Diocese is a little quixotic. It may get driven by pandering to the politics.
Along with a larger amount of non worthy of course.
Osaka is Japanese - do all foreigners look the same to you? I would never have noticed markle was black if she didn't bang on about it, and I had no idea this Jesus woman was until you raised it. You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with racial origins. Let me assure you that we are in a very real sense all god's chillun.
While Boris tied the knot at the weekend, Cameron’s old Notting Hill Set cast more lonely figures in Porto, as they arrived to watch the Champions League Final. George Osborne turned up on his tod, notably without his fiancé Thea Rogers. Neither has Rogers been seen in their new Somerset home for some time…
Guido also spots Gove made the trip, again on his own, making full use of the government’s green travel list.
Unfortunately for Michael, one local eye-witness reports he was shortly “hounded out” of the bar pictured above.
https://order-order.com/2021/06/01/gove-osbornes-lonely-porto-trips/
Brexit gives the government the chance to say ‘We have protected these jobs from outside competition, you have a chance to earn a living and better yourself, now get on with it”. If they don’t, then no dole, and offer them out to EU workers.
Imagine Gary Richardson’s sheux stamping on a human face forever.
Only someone naive would expect no cultural or social changes that render much of the text moot twenty centuries later. Or vice versa judge those of 2000 years ago by today's standards.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57314517
That's quite a big loss for England, he would have been a very useful player to come on with 15 minutes to go.
Post-(horse) race interviews less so: "he's come over the last and I've asked him for a big effort and he just kept on galloping..." etc
Or should we use foreigners as cheap scab labour?
Personally I see rising wages of those with the hardest jobs and least protection as a very good thing. But that might just be me.
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/09/which-mps-get-the-most-abuse-on-twitter-conservatives.html
It seems very unlikely that the relatively small number of Tory MPs from minority groups are driving i).
"How good does it feel...?"
"How much does it mean to you...?"
"How disappointed are you ...?"
Or alternatively, an attempt to berate players for losing and not being good enough or not trying hard enough.
Most post-match interviews are asinine in the extreme. (I'm looking at YOU, Sonia McLaughlin.) You could replace all of them with the observation that the better team/player won and appears happy as a result before returning to the studio to replay the best bits.
I listened to a 30 mins interview with Sam Billings a while ago talking about modern T20. In those 30 mins I learned more about the modern game than hours and hours of test match unspecial or even worse the BBC coverage of T20 last summer that only had one elite T20 player in the commentatary team....
All the horseshit about strike rate of this player vs that player, is just that. Modern T20 tactics aren't thinking about that at all. It is all about matchups.
We had to go. We didn't have to come back.
He got it published here because they knew a significant part of their readership base would lap it up, and for the clickbait driving traffic to their site.
I think the sprog is due next month.
It also explains why she's not been to Somerset for a while, is safer to stay close to their London pad as it is much closer to hospitals.
Come on Guido a simple bit of knowledge goes a long way.
Carrie told me it used to get fed to Dilyn to shred....
We should focus on building on our history not driving a wrecking ball through it.
Perhaps those pinko jellyfish are shaping up in the culture war.
There's something very Brexity and populist about that headline. It's as if Johnson wrote it. Perhaps he did, knowing how things are these days.
Point is, tomato ketchup is so relatable for the masses. Absolutely no whiff of liberal elite about it. Ketchup in, Kefir out.
I see this piece of news going down a storm in the Red Wall. "It's coming home, it's coming home, it's coming ..." they'll be singing.
I'm being totally serious. It's a small thing, this, but the things are mounting up. Johnson is reaching places that in a saner, better world he shouldn't and wouldn't.
At least 16 members of the armed forces have been referred to the UK’s terrorism prevention programme – in the majority of cases because of concerns about far-right activity.
Soldiers, air force and naval personnel were among those investigated over the past two and a half years under Prevent, which aims to stop people becoming radicalised, according to figures obtained by the Guardian under freedom of information.
The figures reveal 14 investigations were carried out in 2019 into serving armed forces personnel. Eleven stemmed from far-right concerns.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/31/at-least-16-members-uk-military-referred-anti-extremism-scheme-prevent
*Although to be fair Boris Johnson is already defunding the armed forces.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/22/uk-army-navy-and-raf-all-to-be-cut-back-defence-review-confirms
My view is that Brexit is largely irrelevant, economically, in the longer-term and I said so in May 2016.
Marxist iconoclasm is the obsession of a tiny minority of loudmouths in this country.
It's quite right they've felt the smack of firm Government in the last few months.
I don't agree that most statues are rubbish; I visited the workshop of the sculptor Philip Jackson pre-Covid and I am impressed by his work and the research that he does for his statues. I accept that some statues might need reassessment but I fear a wave of iconaclasm.
I've spoken to many black colleagues over the last year. What they want is more role models that look like them at the top, far more mentoring and coaching, more inclusion in people's social and professional networks, more positive stories about them in the media, an end to being judged negatively by the authorities, and to being treated differently by regular people because of how they look.
Not a single one mentioned statues as an issue, and the only one who did said so in the context of being worrying they'd be blamed for being the cause of an assault on British history which would make things worse.
Instead - if we can be bothered to take notice at all - simply getting in the popcorn, watching woke and antiwoke** take chunks out of each other and enjoy the wind-up merchants getting responses beyond their wildest dreams.
* there is only losing, I think
** is there a better term? slept? gammon?
Edit: Just seen your reply to Malmesbury. Yep, I agree completely. It's all fluff and there are moe important things (where we differ, I think, is that I don't care if a university/college decides to take some statues down as long as they're also doing stuff that actually matters)
You can find material for both individual and communitarian morality / ethics. eg The community in Acts has a common purse, which is modelled in many communities of service since. Which speaks of a balance between the two. There are plenty of communities of service around the country dedicated to different aspects, whether modelling eg integrated living for eg able-bodied / disabled, theraputic communities or more intentional places such as the Bruderhof or similar.
Most religious people have a place for moral objectivity - the idea that somehow things are wrong not only because of our shifting opinions; but so do most non religious people too. It is one of the universe's fascinating mysteries.
AIUI, all Heinz UK lines are made at Kitt Green. And have been since the Harlesden plant closed in 2000.
The largest Heinz plant in the world. Why would they be imported?