Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Supporting a better infrastructure is fine until it is your house that they want to demolish – polit

SystemSystem Posts: 12,219
edited June 2021 in General
imageSupporting a better infrastructure is fine until it is your house that they want to demolish – politicalbetting.com

What is dominating politics where I live at the moment is nothing to do with the pandemic or Brexit but about the planned East West railway – an overall project that was announced by Chris Grayling when he was TransportSec in 2017.

Read the full story here

«13456

Comments

  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    First like Labour in Batley...
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    "one of those was bought just five days before the new owner received notification that it was going to be affected"... surely the conveyancing solicitor or whoever would have picked up that a proposed railway line ran through the property (or did the vendor's solicitor not disclose...)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,669
    Someone was asking about the US Special Election in New Mexico.

    Well, it's an interesting one. On the one hand, the US is emerging from the pandemic, and New Mexico has done a great job vaccinating, and you'd expect the Democrats to benefit.

    On the other hand, Albuquerque is a bit of a poverty stricken, crime ridden shit hole, that the Dems have controlled for a long-time. And the rural areas hate the the Dems.

    I'd expect turnout in the (Democratic heavy) city to be down markedly, while it holds up well in the rural areas around.

    Dems 135,000; Reps 125,000 - Dem hold on dramatically lower share of the vote.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,669
    Things I discovered today: the United States has had a Native American Vice President Charles Curtis.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited June 2021

    "one of those was bought just five days before the new owner received notification that it was going to be affected"... surely the conveyancing solicitor or whoever would have picked up that a proposed railway line ran through the property (or did the vendor's solicitor not disclose...)

    For at least ten years the plan was to run the route south of the town. It was only two months ago that a new route plan emerged going to the north which is why this is causing so much anger. I don't think the solicitor was not at fault.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,971

    "one of those was bought just five days before the new owner received notification that it was going to be affected"... surely the conveyancing solicitor or whoever would have picked up that a proposed railway line ran through the property (or did the vendor's solicitor not disclose...)

    For at least ten years the plan was to run the route south of the town. It was only two months ago that a new route plan emerged going to the north which is why this is causing so much anger. I don't think the solicitor was not at fault.
    I wonder why they changed the route.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Things I discovered today: the United States has had a Native American Vice President Charles Curtis.

    Wow, That's awesome. Too bad the Hoover connection cast such a large shadow.

    Hoover, incidentally, lived in London for several years before becoming president and raised his family here.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,669
    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    rcs1000 said:

    Someone was asking about the US Special Election in New Mexico.

    Well, it's an interesting one. On the one hand, the US is emerging from the pandemic, and New Mexico has done a great job vaccinating, and you'd expect the Democrats to benefit.

    On the other hand, Albuquerque is a bit of a poverty stricken, crime ridden shit hole, that the Dems have controlled for a long-time. And the rural areas hate the the Dems.

    I'd expect turnout in the (Democratic heavy) city to be down markedly, while it holds up well in the rural areas around.

    Dems 135,000; Reps 125,000 - Dem hold on dramatically lower share of the vote.

    About 75% of registered voters in New Mexico 1st congressional district live in city of Albuquerque, and most of the rest in nearby suburbs, very few in the rural desert. District is approx half Hispanic, half Anglo, with in-comers and newcomers from other states a major share of the Anglos.

    Democrats have held NM CD1 since 2008, with over 55% since 2012 after last redistricting. And even with expected low turnout helping the GOP, Democrats SHOULD hold this seat. For one thing, would expect a MUCH more robust grassroots & GOTV effort from Dems in THIS race than in Texas CD06 special election.

    For one thing, only one candidate per (each) party in this race. Plus the Libertarian & independent vote will tend to come more out of (potential at least) Republican than Democratic support.

    According to wiki, last (and apparently only) public poll, May 18-21, 500 LV, had following result
    Melanie Stansbury (Dem) 49%
    Mark Moores (Rep) 33%
    Aubrey Dunn (Ind) 5%
    Chris Manning (Lib) 5%
    undecided 9%

    Robert's characterization of Albuquerque has high degree of truth. It's the kind of place where locals will warn you against trying to stay at any of the small hotels in the city along Route 66. Unless of course you (and/or Leon) are looking for some action! Aside from a small old town down by the river, pretty bland place, but some VERY cool stuff on the outskirts & nearby, such as pueblos and Sandia Mountain. Very hot & dry compared to Santa Fe which is more interesting, certainly for tourists & travelers.

    As I noted last thred, New Mexico is the only state in US that has (by legislative enactment) an Official State Question:

    "Red or Green?"
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,971
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    rcs1000 said:

    Things I discovered today: the United States has had a Native American Vice President Charles Curtis.

    Wow, That's awesome. Too bad the Hoover connection cast such a large shadow.

    Hoover, incidentally, lived in London for several years before becoming president and raised his family here.
    Charles Curtis had a long and prominent, if not exactly distinguished career in the US Senate representing the Kansas. He was noted above all for party loyalty as a conservative, stand-pat Republican in a state with a history of radicalism.

    In fact, that's what put him on the GOP ticket in 1928 as Herbert Hoover's VP running mate, because many GOP regulars distrusted Hoover (who in 1920 had been courted as a possible POTUS candidate by both Reps and Dems).

    Once in office, Curtis became embroiled in Washington, DC high-society high jinks. He was a widower, and made his sister his official hostess, and she got into a protracted dispute over social precedence with the wife of the Speaker of the US House, who happened to be Alice Roosevelt Longworth, daughter of the late President Theodore Roosevelt. Who had been a Washington trend-setter & social arbiter since she was a girl living in the White House.

    Hoover would have liked to dump Curtis from the ticket in 1932, but his own standing with the public was even worse than the VP's, and so they remained an electoral duo - but FAR less dynamic in 1932.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,820
    edited June 2021

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    It doesn’t however mean that “engaging with the media” should involve open season on the players personal lives. If it’s “about the tennis” then the media questioning should focus on the tennis.

    It is ironic that some of the critics have been comparing Osaka with Meghan/Harry. One who has been trying to keep her personal issues private, and the others giving high profile interviews. But both effectively criticised the same.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,173

    If it was compulsory purchase at market price plus 40% - a tiny uplift in the great scheme of these civil engineering projects - you'd have people clamouring to be the route.....

    Like in the US where homeowners own the mineral rights beneath, and everyone wants to cash in from fracking
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    Blame the short-sightedness of Dr. Beeching and the DfT in closing the varsity line in the 1960s and then selling off the land.

    Remarkably stupid and now makes the reopening of the line very difficult and expensive, because it needs to be effectively rebuilt from scratch east of Bedford.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,955

    First day of new job today!

    I'm losing track. Is this the first one, or have you now moved on?

    ATB
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,516
    MattW said:

    First day of new job today!

    I'm losing track. Is this the first one, or have you now moved on?

    ATB
    The first legal job since my career change. I had to finish my exams before I started. If only my progression was that rapid. :D
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,173
    Coronavirus variants are to be named after letters of the Greek alphabet instead of their place of first discovery, the World Health Organization has announced, in a move to avoid stigma.

    The WHO has named four variants of concern, known to the public as the UK/Kent (B.1.1.7), South Africa (B.1.351), Brazil (P.1) and India (B.1.617.2) variants. They will now be given the letters Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Delta respectively, to reflect their order of detection, with any new variants following the pattern down the Greek alphabet.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,099

    First day of new job today!

    All the very best to you. Hope it goes well, for you and for them.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    A thread header about railways!

    Not sure why there’s a picture of a soon to be scrapped plastic pig (Class 442) on one of the posters. Perhaps if there was a promise for the trains to be loco hauled then that would make all the difference. :wink:

    It’s hard to see how the government doesn’t go ahead with this railway. They can’t build HS2 and then pull the plug on anything else.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Irish, was Osaka the one who beat Williams in the US Open final but was apologetic and practically (actually?) in tears at the interview because Williams had thrown such a strop during the match?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    On Naomi Osaka, it seems very odd state of affairs. It seems the authorities haven’t handled it well - it’s not good for anyone to lose one of the star players from the tournament.

    However, I did argue for Man Utd to be docked points every time Fergie didn’t talk to the BBC.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,731

    First day of new job today!

    Very best of. New job, new career! And a bright sunny day for it. All the omens good!
  • tlg86 said:

    On Naomi Osaka, it seems very odd state of affairs. It seems the authorities haven’t handled it well - it’s not good for anyone to lose one of the star players from the tournament.

    However, I did argue for Man Utd to be docked points every time Fergie didn’t talk to the BBC.

    It's disgraceful.

    She talks with her racket and the idea that players should have to dance for the media shows what a disgusting state of affairs our world has sunk into.

    Mental wellbeing comes first. The tournaments and media should fuck right off until they get that message.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    rcs1000 said:

    Someone was asking about the US Special Election in New Mexico.

    Well, it's an interesting one. On the one hand, the US is emerging from the pandemic, and New Mexico has done a great job vaccinating, and you'd expect the Democrats to benefit.

    On the other hand, Albuquerque is a bit of a poverty stricken, crime ridden shit hole, that the Dems have controlled for a long-time. And the rural areas hate the the Dems.

    I'd expect turnout in the (Democratic heavy) city to be down markedly, while it holds up well in the rural areas around.

    Dems 135,000; Reps 125,000 - Dem hold on dramatically lower share of the vote.

    You have to watch out for the high school chemistry teachers in Albuquerque, I saw a documentary that one of them turned out to be the biggest meth dealer in the southern USA.
  • On topic, a friend of mine lives in the Chilterns 100 metres from the HS2 route, which in many ways is worse than if he had lived on it. No compensation, just a ruined life.

    However, we do need public transport infrastructure and several east-west routes also need to be developed. We particularly need better services under the Pennines e.g. from Manchester to Leeds.

    It's very tough for those blighted by it and we're not a large island for the size of population but I'd much rather see this than new roads.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    First day of new job today!

    Good luck!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Gate, congrats, hope it goes well.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    rcs1000 said:

    Someone was asking about the US Special Election in New Mexico.

    Well, it's an interesting one. On the one hand, the US is emerging from the pandemic, and New Mexico has done a great job vaccinating, and you'd expect the Democrats to benefit.

    On the other hand, Albuquerque is a bit of a poverty stricken, crime ridden shit hole, that the Dems have controlled for a long-time. And the rural areas hate the the Dems.

    I'd expect turnout in the (Democratic heavy) city to be down markedly, while it holds up well in the rural areas around.

    Dems 135,000; Reps 125,000 - Dem hold on dramatically lower share of the vote.

    https://twitter.com/lxeagle17/status/1399609720378322944

    #NM01 is currently at ~D+28 for the early vote for Tuesday's special election, going by party registration numbers.

    In November, 89% of the vote was cast early and was ~D+19 for the congressional race (Haaland won by 16.4 points).

    Anything below D+20 would be *stunning*.

    — Lakshya Jain (@lxeagle17) June 1, 2021
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited June 2021

    Blame the short-sightedness of Dr. Beeching and the DfT in closing the varsity line in the 1960s and then selling off the land.

    Remarkably stupid and now makes the reopening of the line very difficult and expensive, because it needs to be effectively rebuilt from scratch east of Bedford.

    The Government are doing some remarkable things on this front with their 'Restoring your Railways' expansion.

    The first of their rollout is Exeter to Okehampton where they have already laid the new 15 miles of track. Two hourly services will begin 7 days a week later this year, rising to hourly next year.

    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/western/dartmoor-line/#:~:text=railway to passengers.-,The Dartmoor Line,Kingdom from Exeter St Davids.

    It looks as if they are going to build a new Okehampton Parkway station close to the A30 too.

    https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/latest-plans-okehampton-parkway-railway-5360383

    In due course it's possible they may complete the link around the north side of Dartmoor from Exeter to Plymouth. The line won't be a true alternative to the beautiful but precarious section around Dawlish but it would certainly provide an important emergency backup:

    https://www.railfuture.org.uk/The+Okehampton+Line

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
  • Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903
    Andy_JS said:

    "one of those was bought just five days before the new owner received notification that it was going to be affected"... surely the conveyancing solicitor or whoever would have picked up that a proposed railway line ran through the property (or did the vendor's solicitor not disclose...)

    For at least ten years the plan was to run the route south of the town. It was only two months ago that a new route plan emerged going to the north which is why this is causing so much anger. I don't think the solicitor was not at fault.
    I wonder why they changed the route.
    Should check for any large donations to the Tory party from South Bedford.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,173
    Nationwide saying annual house price inflation has now passed 10%
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464

    Blame the short-sightedness of Dr. Beeching and the DfT in closing the varsity line in the 1960s and then selling off the land.

    Remarkably stupid and now makes the reopening of the line very difficult and expensive, because it needs to be effectively rebuilt from scratch east of Bedford.

    The Government are doing some remarkable things on this front with their 'Restoring your Railways' expansion.

    The first of their rollout is Exeter to Okehampton where they have already laid the new 15 miles of track. Two hourly services will begin 7 days a week later this year, rising to hourly next year.

    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/western/dartmoor-line/#:~:text=railway to passengers.-,The Dartmoor Line,Kingdom from Exeter St Davids.

    It looks as if they are going to build a new Okehampton Parkway station close to the A30 too.

    https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/latest-plans-okehampton-parkway-railway-5360383

    In due course it's possible they may complete the link around the north side of Dartmoor from Exeter to Plymouth. The line won't be a true alternative to the beautiful but precarious section around Dawlish but it would certainly provide an important emergency backup:

    https://www.railfuture.org.uk/The+Okehampton+Line

    All this rail stuff is quite impressive, I wish the same level of commitment/energy/drive could be shown to the issue of high rise cladding - 4 years on from Grenfell and the whole topic is still a mess.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Really? I thought prize money was paid by sponsors.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Has Piers Morgan ever met a young woman of colour that he hasn't wanted to bully?
    Still, Osaka should ignore Morgan's issues and move to Britain. We love people who refuse to submit themselves to press scrutiny so much in this country that we make them PM.
    But where’s the fridge? We don’t take them seriously if they don’t hide in a fridge.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,173

    Blame the short-sightedness of Dr. Beeching and the DfT in closing the varsity line in the 1960s and then selling off the land.

    Remarkably stupid and now makes the reopening of the line very difficult and expensive, because it needs to be effectively rebuilt from scratch east of Bedford.

    The Government are doing some remarkable things on this front with their 'Restoring your Railways' expansion.

    The first of their rollout is Exeter to Okehampton where they have already laid the new 15 miles of track. Two hourly services will begin 7 days a week later this year, rising to hourly next year.

    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/western/dartmoor-line/#:~:text=railway to passengers.-,The Dartmoor Line,Kingdom from Exeter St Davids.

    It looks as if they are going to build a new Okehampton Parkway station close to the A30 too.

    https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/latest-plans-okehampton-parkway-railway-5360383

    In due course it's possible they may complete the link around the north side of Dartmoor from Exeter to Plymouth. The line won't be a true alternative to the beautiful but precarious section around Dawlish but it would certainly provide an important emergency backup:

    https://www.railfuture.org.uk/The+Okehampton+Line

    Blame the short-sightedness of Dr. Beeching and the DfT in closing the varsity line in the 1960s and then selling off the land.

    Remarkably stupid and now makes the reopening of the line very difficult and expensive, because it needs to be effectively rebuilt from scratch east of Bedford.

    The Government are doing some remarkable things on this front with their 'Restoring your Railways' expansion.

    The first of their rollout is Exeter to Okehampton where they have already laid the new 15 miles of track. Two hourly services will begin 7 days a week later this year, rising to hourly next year.

    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/western/dartmoor-line/#:~:text=railway to passengers.-,The Dartmoor Line,Kingdom from Exeter St Davids.

    It looks as if they are going to build a new Okehampton Parkway station close to the A30 too.

    https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/latest-plans-okehampton-parkway-railway-5360383

    In due course it's possible they may complete the link around the north side of Dartmoor from Exeter to Plymouth. The line won't be a true alternative to the beautiful but precarious section around Dawlish but it would certainly provide an important emergency backup:

    https://www.railfuture.org.uk/The+Okehampton+Line

    There are a lot of updates here:

    https://trundleage.co.uk/news-and-updates/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,669
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    When you say "very much", is it a contractual requirement of playing, or something that is just assumed?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,173
    At 0700 it was just over 15C this morning, 2C higher than same time yesterday
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    When you say "very much", is it a contractual requirement of playing, or something that is just assumed?
    She was initially fined her prize money for not attending the press conference, so yes I’d say it was compulsory. Most pro sports have media engagement clauses in the entry conditions.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. B2, aye. We are entering the period of the year when I'm annoyed because it's warm.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,295

    Blame the short-sightedness of Dr. Beeching and the DfT in closing the varsity line in the 1960s and then selling off the land.

    Remarkably stupid and now makes the reopening of the line very difficult and expensive, because it needs to be effectively rebuilt from scratch east of Bedford.

    The Government are doing some remarkable things on this front with their 'Restoring your Railways' expansion.

    The first of their rollout is Exeter to Okehampton where they have already laid the new 15 miles of track. Two hourly services will begin 7 days a week later this year, rising to hourly next year.

    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/western/dartmoor-line/#:~:text=railway to passengers.-,The Dartmoor Line,Kingdom from Exeter St Davids.

    It looks as if they are going to build a new Okehampton Parkway station close to the A30 too.

    https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/latest-plans-okehampton-parkway-railway-5360383

    In due course it's possible they may complete the link around the north side of Dartmoor from Exeter to Plymouth. The line won't be a true alternative to the beautiful but precarious section around Dawlish but it would certainly provide an important emergency backup:

    https://www.railfuture.org.uk/The+Okehampton+Line

    The Marylebone to Oxford line opened back in 2016: that involved some new track, though I don’t know if any houses needed to be demolished.
    I live very close to a station on the Chiltern line and it makes getting into Oxford a doddle compared to driving there.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    It has to be one rule for all. So they'd have to make the press conferences optional for all players.

    As @Sandpit says, the TV companies pay the piper and they call the tune.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Things I discovered today: the United States has had a Native American Vice President Charles Curtis.

    Let me guess: he was a Republican?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038
    On topic this is an example of the problems that arise trying to do anything in such a densely populated and democratic country. We find overriding property rights hard and so we should. Article 1 of Protocol 1 of the ECHR provides:
    "Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law.

    The preceding provisions shall not, however, in any way impair the right of the State to enforce such laws as it deems necessary to control the use of property in accordance with the general interest or to secure payment of taxes or other contributions or penalties."

    So this is something fairly fundamental in human nature and in many respects the very basis of the rule of law.

    Its frustrating we take so long to do these things but the alternative is a State with the power to run roughshod over our property rights: would we really want that?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    The story is that she quit before she was kicked out of the tournament. The French Open’s handling of mental is very poor
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,295
    edited June 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    How bad would it be if they just stopped the press conferences after the matches? Do we ever get any startling revelations from them that is worth the hassle?

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Charles, as an aside I think I caught a BBC headline about Murray (doubles) being irked at the slashing of prize money for the doubles tournament by the French Open.

    So, winning fans in every corner.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    DavidL said:

    On topic this is an example of the problems that arise trying to do anything in such a densely populated and democratic country. We find overriding property rights hard and so we should. Article 1 of Protocol 1 of the ECHR provides:
    "Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law.

    The preceding provisions shall not, however, in any way impair the right of the State to enforce such laws as it deems necessary to control the use of property in accordance with the general interest or to secure payment of taxes or other contributions or penalties."

    So this is something fairly fundamental in human nature and in many respects the very basis of the rule of law.

    Its frustrating we take so long to do these things but the alternative is a State with the power to run roughshod over our property rights: would we really want that?

    No.

    A large chunk of the problem though is the decision to sell off old railway line trackbeds for housing, which was based on the - to put it mildly - naive belief of Civil Servants over three decades that all railways would be closing in the near future so there was no chance they would be required again.

    And of course, some never will be. Nobody’s going to rebuild the Littleton Colliery line from Penkridge to Huntington. And I can’t see anyone reopening the Mid Wales railway from Talyllyn Junction to Three Cocks junction, although ironically the track bed is probably mostly in situ there.

    But to assume there was not and never would be a need for a railway from Cambridge to Oxford? Bizarre.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    How bad would it be if they just stopped the press conferences after the matches? Do we ever get any startling revelations from them that is worth the hassle?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQEJIA3NXIs
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,820
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Really? I thought prize money was paid by sponsors.
    Do you think there would be any sponsors if no TV? The cult of the brat has become so big in society today that we have a perverse situation where a very rich tennis player gets support for refusing to speak to tennis fans because err it stresses her out - Unbelievable really
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,295
    DavidL said:

    On topic this is an example of the problems that arise trying to do anything in such a densely populated and democratic country. We find overriding property rights hard and so we should. Article 1 of Protocol 1 of the ECHR provides:
    "Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law.

    The preceding provisions shall not, however, in any way impair the right of the State to enforce such laws as it deems necessary to control the use of property in accordance with the general interest or to secure payment of taxes or other contributions or penalties."

    So this is something fairly fundamental in human nature and in many respects the very basis of the rule of law.

    Its frustrating we take so long to do these things but the alternative is a State with the power to run roughshod over our property rights: would we really want that?

    In China it seems that owners don’t have to sell, leading to what are called “nail houses”:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/19/asia/gallery/china-nail-houses/index.html
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    How bad would it be if they just stopped the press conferences after the matches? Do we ever get any startling revelations from them that is worth the hassle?

    A simple solution:

    For missing the press conference in the final 20% of your prize money goes to charity.
    For each press conference you miss when you win a match 10% of your tournament prize money goes to charity.
    For each press conference after you have lost a match 5% of your tournament prize money goes to charity.
    Players can choose to attend/not attend on that basis.

    A finalist missing all their press conferences would lose 80% of their tournament fee.

    Incentivises enough players to attend, but allows those with an issue to skip if needed and raises some cash for charity.

    Better than a public spat over mental health.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    How bad would it be if they just stopped the press conferences after the matches? Do we ever get any startling revelations from them that is worth the hassle?

    That’s a more interesting question.

    It could certainly be argued that the press conferences don’t add much to the tournament, but the press around the events think that we want to hear from the competitors, and the TV companies are paying a lot of money for broadcast rights to the tournament.

    I’m not an expert on what tennis tournament entry forms look like, but here’s an example of a sport I follow more closely, and the requirements for media engagement immediately following the event:
    https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/decision-document/2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Race Directors Note - Post Race Procedure.pdf
  • prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 454
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    When you say "very much", is it a contractual requirement of playing, or something that is just assumed?
    It is contractual. Players sign up to the rules. Article III.H of the Grand Slam rules requires players to attend a post-match media conference within 30 minutes of the end of the match unless they are injured and physically unable to appear or the tournament referee agrees otherwise. Non-appearance makes the player liable to a fine of up to $20k.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,820
    edited June 2021

    tlg86 said:

    On Naomi Osaka, it seems very odd state of affairs. It seems the authorities haven’t handled it well - it’s not good for anyone to lose one of the star players from the tournament.

    However, I did argue for Man Utd to be docked points every time Fergie didn’t talk to the BBC.

    It's disgraceful.

    She talks with her racket and the idea that players should have to dance for the media shows what a disgusting state of affairs our world has sunk into.

    Mental wellbeing comes first. The tournaments and media should fuck right off until they get that message.
    Professional sport is only there because fans watch it - If tennis players think they dont need to bother with fans through TV then there is no professional tennis in the end
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic this is an example of the problems that arise trying to do anything in such a densely populated and democratic country. We find overriding property rights hard and so we should. Article 1 of Protocol 1 of the ECHR provides:
    "Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law.

    The preceding provisions shall not, however, in any way impair the right of the State to enforce such laws as it deems necessary to control the use of property in accordance with the general interest or to secure payment of taxes or other contributions or penalties."

    So this is something fairly fundamental in human nature and in many respects the very basis of the rule of law.

    Its frustrating we take so long to do these things but the alternative is a State with the power to run roughshod over our property rights: would we really want that?

    No.

    A large chunk of the problem though is the decision to sell off old railway line trackbeds for housing, which was based on the - to put it mildly - naive belief of Civil Servants over three decades that all railways would be closing in the near future so there was no chance they would be required again.

    And of course, some never will be. Nobody’s going to rebuild the Littleton Colliery line from Penkridge to Huntington. And I can’t see anyone reopening the Mid Wales railway from Talyllyn Junction to Three Cocks junction, although ironically the track bed is probably mostly in situ there.

    But to assume there was not and never would be a need for a railway from Cambridge to Oxford? Bizarre.
    But that's the overcrowded point, isn't it? Valuable land cannot be left idle on the off chance that we might need it again some day. It needs to be used now. The examples of where the track beds are available are where the land does not have an alternative use. Land in or near Oxford, London or Cambridge is never going to fall into that category.

    In contrast near my house there is the old railway track from Dundee to Newtyle which disappeared the best part of 100 years ago. It is now a delightful walk very popular with horses too. Used it a lot during lockdown.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    Osaka has behaved professionally

    AIUI the discussion was

    Osaka: I don’t want to do this. Can I do that as an alternative?
    French: Non!
    Osaka: I’m not well and find it really difficult
    French: Non!
    Osaka: fine, then I’ll quit
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    DavidL said:

    On topic this is an example of the problems that arise trying to do anything in such a densely populated and democratic country. We find overriding property rights hard and so we should. Article 1 of Protocol 1 of the ECHR provides:
    "Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law.

    The preceding provisions shall not, however, in any way impair the right of the State to enforce such laws as it deems necessary to control the use of property in accordance with the general interest or to secure payment of taxes or other contributions or penalties."

    So this is something fairly fundamental in human nature and in many respects the very basis of the rule of law.

    Its frustrating we take so long to do these things but the alternative is a State with the power to run roughshod over our property rights: would we really want that?

    In China it seems that owners don’t have to sell, leading to what are called “nail houses”:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/19/asia/gallery/china-nail-houses/index.html
    If you look at Narita airport in Tokyo, they built the taxiways around a farmhouse and a couple of fields that a stubborn farmer wouldn’t sell to the airport developer!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    When you say "very much", is it a contractual requirement of playing, or something that is just assumed?
    Contractual
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    When you say "very much", is it a contractual requirement of playing, or something that is just assumed?
    It is contractual. Players sign up to the rules. Article III.H of the Grand Slam rules requires players to attend a post-match media conference within 30 minutes of the end of the match unless they are injured and physically unable to appear or the tournament referee agrees otherwise. Non-appearance makes the player liable to a fine of up to $20k.
    30 mins feels unnecessary, especially as some of the mens matches last five hours plus. Why not make it same day? That is probably easier on the players who have lost a long tough match without losing access for the journalists. They might even get better answers if they let the players get a bit refreshed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic this is an example of the problems that arise trying to do anything in such a densely populated and democratic country. We find overriding property rights hard and so we should. Article 1 of Protocol 1 of the ECHR provides:
    "Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law.

    The preceding provisions shall not, however, in any way impair the right of the State to enforce such laws as it deems necessary to control the use of property in accordance with the general interest or to secure payment of taxes or other contributions or penalties."

    So this is something fairly fundamental in human nature and in many respects the very basis of the rule of law.

    Its frustrating we take so long to do these things but the alternative is a State with the power to run roughshod over our property rights: would we really want that?

    No.

    A large chunk of the problem though is the decision to sell off old railway line trackbeds for housing, which was based on the - to put it mildly - naive belief of Civil Servants over three decades that all railways would be closing in the near future so there was no chance they would be required again.

    And of course, some never will be. Nobody’s going to rebuild the Littleton Colliery line from Penkridge to Huntington. And I can’t see anyone reopening the Mid Wales railway from Talyllyn Junction to Three Cocks junction, although ironically the track bed is probably mostly in situ there.

    But to assume there was not and never would be a need for a railway from Cambridge to Oxford? Bizarre.
    But that's the overcrowded point, isn't it? Valuable land cannot be left idle on the off chance that we might need it again some day. It needs to be used now. The examples of where the track beds are available are where the land does not have an alternative use. Land in or near Oxford, London or Cambridge is never going to fall into that category.

    In contrast near my house there is the old railway track from Dundee to Newtyle which disappeared the best part of 100 years ago. It is now a delightful walk very popular with horses too. Used it a lot during lockdown.
    There’s some good ones like that round here. Ashbourne to Buxton is a gorgeous cycle route. Also the old Stafford-Wellington railway via Market Drayton, although there’s talk of reopening that for freight.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,820
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    Osaka has behaved professionally

    AIUI the discussion was

    Osaka: I don’t want to do this. Can I do that as an alternative?
    French: Non!
    Osaka: I’m not well and find it really difficult
    French: Non!
    Osaka: fine, then I’ll quit
    Thats not professional , in sport you do not quit unless you are injured . Its rank bad manners for a start to other players and fans not least the tournament organisers
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,313
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    And if you developed a health condition that made you unable to do part of your job?
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,295
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic this is an example of the problems that arise trying to do anything in such a densely populated and democratic country. We find overriding property rights hard and so we should. Article 1 of Protocol 1 of the ECHR provides:
    "Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law.

    The preceding provisions shall not, however, in any way impair the right of the State to enforce such laws as it deems necessary to control the use of property in accordance with the general interest or to secure payment of taxes or other contributions or penalties."

    So this is something fairly fundamental in human nature and in many respects the very basis of the rule of law.

    Its frustrating we take so long to do these things but the alternative is a State with the power to run roughshod over our property rights: would we really want that?

    No.

    A large chunk of the problem though is the decision to sell off old railway line trackbeds for housing, which was based on the - to put it mildly - naive belief of Civil Servants over three decades that all railways would be closing in the near future so there was no chance they would be required again.

    And of course, some never will be. Nobody’s going to rebuild the Littleton Colliery line from Penkridge to Huntington. And I can’t see anyone reopening the Mid Wales railway from Talyllyn Junction to Three Cocks junction, although ironically the track bed is probably mostly in situ there.

    But to assume there was not and never would be a need for a railway from Cambridge to Oxford? Bizarre.
    But that's the overcrowded point, isn't it? Valuable land cannot be left idle on the off chance that we might need it again some day. It needs to be used now. The examples of where the track beds are available are where the land does not have an alternative use. Land in or near Oxford, London or Cambridge is never going to fall into that category.

    In contrast near my house there is the old railway track from Dundee to Newtyle which disappeared the best part of 100 years ago. It is now a delightful walk very popular with horses too. Used it a lot during lockdown.
    There’s some good ones like that round here. Ashbourne to Buxton is a gorgeous cycle route. Also the old Stafford-Wellington railway via Market Drayton, although there’s talk of reopening that for freight.
    Old railway lines make great cycle paths.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic this is an example of the problems that arise trying to do anything in such a densely populated and democratic country. We find overriding property rights hard and so we should. Article 1 of Protocol 1 of the ECHR provides:
    "Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law.

    The preceding provisions shall not, however, in any way impair the right of the State to enforce such laws as it deems necessary to control the use of property in accordance with the general interest or to secure payment of taxes or other contributions or penalties."

    So this is something fairly fundamental in human nature and in many respects the very basis of the rule of law.

    Its frustrating we take so long to do these things but the alternative is a State with the power to run roughshod over our property rights: would we really want that?

    No.

    A large chunk of the problem though is the decision to sell off old railway line trackbeds for housing, which was based on the - to put it mildly - naive belief of Civil Servants over three decades that all railways would be closing in the near future so there was no chance they would be required again.

    And of course, some never will be. Nobody’s going to rebuild the Littleton Colliery line from Penkridge to Huntington. And I can’t see anyone reopening the Mid Wales railway from Talyllyn Junction to Three Cocks junction, although ironically the track bed is probably mostly in situ there.

    But to assume there was not and never would be a need for a railway from Cambridge to Oxford? Bizarre.
    But that's the overcrowded point, isn't it? Valuable land cannot be left idle on the off chance that we might need it again some day. It needs to be used now. The examples of where the track beds are available are where the land does not have an alternative use. Land in or near Oxford, London or Cambridge is never going to fall into that category.

    In contrast near my house there is the old railway track from Dundee to Newtyle which disappeared the best part of 100 years ago. It is now a delightful walk very popular with horses too. Used it a lot during lockdown.
    There’s some good ones like that round here. Ashbourne to Buxton is a gorgeous cycle route. Also the old Stafford-Wellington railway via Market Drayton, although there’s talk of reopening that for freight.
    Old railway lines make great cycle paths.
    Well, yes. But a lot of them would make even better railway lines.

    To quote Rolt, ‘Dr Beeching and his ilk have a great deal to answer for.’
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,820

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    How bad would it be if they just stopped the press conferences after the matches? Do we ever get any startling revelations from them that is worth the hassle?

    A simple solution:

    For missing the press conference in the final 20% of your prize money goes to charity.
    For each press conference you miss when you win a match 10% of your tournament prize money goes to charity.
    For each press conference after you have lost a match 5% of your tournament prize money goes to charity.
    Players can choose to attend/not attend on that basis.

    A finalist missing all their press conferences would lose 80% of their tournament fee.

    Incentivises enough players to attend, but allows those with an issue to skip if needed and raises some cash for charity.

    Better than a public spat over mental health.
    yeah and the funders of the tournament (TV and sponsors) don't get annoyed? There would not be a tournament if TV pulled out ,certainly not the prize money to which the players are used to
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,295

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    Osaka has behaved professionally

    AIUI the discussion was

    Osaka: I don’t want to do this. Can I do that as an alternative?
    French: Non!
    Osaka: I’m not well and find it really difficult
    French: Non!
    Osaka: fine, then I’ll quit
    Thats not professional , in sport you do not quit unless you are injured . Its rank bad manners for a start to other players and fans not least the tournament organisers
    So mental health doesn’t count, only physical?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106

    Thats not professional , in sport you do not quit unless you are injured . Its rank bad manners for a start to other players and fans not least the tournament organisers

    She has a mental health injury
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038

    DavidL said:

    On topic this is an example of the problems that arise trying to do anything in such a densely populated and democratic country. We find overriding property rights hard and so we should. Article 1 of Protocol 1 of the ECHR provides:
    "Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law.

    The preceding provisions shall not, however, in any way impair the right of the State to enforce such laws as it deems necessary to control the use of property in accordance with the general interest or to secure payment of taxes or other contributions or penalties."

    So this is something fairly fundamental in human nature and in many respects the very basis of the rule of law.

    Its frustrating we take so long to do these things but the alternative is a State with the power to run roughshod over our property rights: would we really want that?

    In China it seems that owners don’t have to sell, leading to what are called “nail houses”:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/19/asia/gallery/china-nail-houses/index.html
    Weird. If I had been guessing a country where property rights were overridden easily China would have been pretty high up the list.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    edited June 2021

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    How bad would it be if they just stopped the press conferences after the matches? Do we ever get any startling revelations from them that is worth the hassle?

    A simple solution:

    For missing the press conference in the final 20% of your prize money goes to charity.
    For each press conference you miss when you win a match 10% of your tournament prize money goes to charity.
    For each press conference after you have lost a match 5% of your tournament prize money goes to charity.
    Players can choose to attend/not attend on that basis.

    A finalist missing all their press conferences would lose 80% of their tournament fee.

    Incentivises enough players to attend, but allows those with an issue to skip if needed and raises some cash for charity.

    Better than a public spat over mental health.
    yeah and the funders of the tournament (TV and sponsors) don't get annoyed? There would not be a tournament if TV pulled out ,certainly not the prize money to which the players are used to
    Perhaps they shouldn’t ask such fecking stupid questions then, particularly of female players. Watching the first five minutes of a press conference is an exercise in tedium, frustration and watching an unedifying mix of rudeness and almost voyeuristic intrusion.

    It’s not just the political media that have lost all grasp of reality.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,955
    edited June 2021
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    How bad would it be if they just stopped the press conferences after the matches? Do we ever get any startling revelations from them that is worth the hassle?

    A more fun solution would be if they were allowed to ask journalists similar questions.

    ‘You know that outfit you’re wearing? It sucks. You look like a lemon that’s been kept in sunlight.’

    ‘Your article yesterday contained five spelling mistakes. How does it feel, knowing that you’re so stupid you can’t do the basic parts of your job properly?’

    ‘Obviously, there’s been lots of talk about you shagging this other journalist. I hear your wife wants a divorce, have you a comment for the listeners at home?’

    I think press conferences would come to a rather sudden halt...
    Quite amused at the phalanx of bandwagon-jumpers trying to place themselves at the head of the mob. I wonder if that helps reduce the pressure?

    If it's in the contract to do media, then you do media. Though Article III.H allows exceptions as described. Were the tournament medical advisers consulted ?

    Perhaps some better advisers, for both players and tournament, and a break for the players, required.

    What is French media saying?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited June 2021
    Perhaps a few basic facts might be helpful?

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/31/naomi-osaka-withdraws-french-open-press-conference-fines-tennis

    Addendum - interesting to note which way the actual big-time tennis players are going on this.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    Osaka has behaved professionally

    AIUI the discussion was

    Osaka: I don’t want to do this. Can I do that as an alternative?
    French: Non!
    Osaka: I’m not well and find it really difficult
    French: Non!
    Osaka: fine, then I’ll quit
    Thats not professional , in sport you do not quit unless you are injured . Its rank bad manners for a start to other players and fans not least the tournament organisers
    It’s a professional contract. She is a service provider who found sh was unable to fulfil the contract so quit without asking for compensation for the work to date.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    edited June 2021
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    I have on occasions explained how seriously ill my eldest son is with PTSD and complex anxieties, so much so he has recently undergone 16 sessions of electroconvulsive therapy and now has an expert Trauma team counselling him, especially in respect of the horrors he experienced at 'ground zero' in Christchurch in the aftermath of the 2011 earthquake

    Naomi Osaka apparently has serious mental health issues when it comes to appearing in front of the media and 5 live commented this morning that when she beat Serena Williams last year, her whole press conference was about Serena Williams and nothing to do with congratulating her on her success

    The tennis authorities in their wisdom fined her 15,000 dollars and threatened to expel her from their tournament unless she appeared as required

    This is unacceptable, and just shows how out of touch the authorities are with mental health issues.

    They should immediately return the fine, apologise to her, and provide help for her to return to the sport

    She has decided to take time out from the sport she loves and of course that is sensible for her, but I have to say that Piers Morgan is not fit to even talk about Naomi, he is quite the most objectionable of people in the media today and should be called out for his ill conceived and hurtful attitude
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,295

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    How bad would it be if they just stopped the press conferences after the matches? Do we ever get any startling revelations from them that is worth the hassle?

    A simple solution:

    For missing the press conference in the final 20% of your prize money goes to charity.
    For each press conference you miss when you win a match 10% of your tournament prize money goes to charity.
    For each press conference after you have lost a match 5% of your tournament prize money goes to charity.
    Players can choose to attend/not attend on that basis.

    A finalist missing all their press conferences would lose 80% of their tournament fee.

    Incentivises enough players to attend, but allows those with an issue to skip if needed and raises some cash for charity.

    Better than a public spat over mental health.
    yeah and the funders of the tournament (TV and sponsors) don't get annoyed? There would not be a tournament if TV pulled out ,certainly not the prize money to which the players are used to
    But how many people watch the press conferences compared to those that watch the actual sport? It just seems a really self-defeating idea to insist that a great player can’t play unless that are prepared to do something completely unrelated to their sport.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,313
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    How bad would it be if they just stopped the press conferences after the matches? Do we ever get any startling revelations from them that is worth the hassle?

    A more fun solution would be if they were allowed to ask journalists similar questions.

    ‘You know that outfit you’re wearing? It sucks. You look like a lemon that’s been kept in sunlight.’

    ‘Your article yesterday contained five spelling mistakes. How does it feel, knowing that you’re so stupid you can’t do the basic parts of your job properly?’

    ‘Obviously, there’s been lots of talk about you shagging this other journalist. I hear your wife wants a divorce, have you a comment for the listeners at home?’

    I think press conferences would come to a rather sudden halt...
    Quite amused at the phalanx of bandwagon-jumpers trying to place themselves at the head of the mob. I wonder if that helps reduce the pressure?

    If it's in the contract to do media, then you do media. Though Article III.H allows exceptions as described. Were the tournament medical advisers consulted ?

    Perhaps some better advisers, and a break, required.
    Or maybe get a letter from your doctor?

    It sounds like the press conferences cause serious levels of anxiety. Not something she should be forced to do.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    Perhaps a few basic facts might be helpful?

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/31/naomi-osaka-withdraws-french-open-press-conference-fines-tennis

    Addendum - interesting to note which way the actual big-time tennis players are going on this.

    The last paragraph is brilliant. I would like to think it’s deliberate dry wit:

    Two hours after Osaka’s announcement, Moretton conducted a press conference in which he read out a statement in French and English, calling Osaka’s withdrawal “unfortunate” and wishing her “the quickest possible recovery.” He left without fielding any questions from the press.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,473
    Scott_xP said:

    Thats not professional , in sport you do not quit unless you are injured . Its rank bad manners for a start to other players and fans not least the tournament organisers

    She has a mental health injury
    Unfortunately, society takes mental health a lot less seriously than physical health.

    And how much value do sporting press conferences really add? Or is it more a way of putting these sporting types in their place? You may be rich and successful, but we pay your wages...
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited June 2021

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    Osaka has behaved professionally

    AIUI the discussion was

    Osaka: I don’t want to do this. Can I do that as an alternative?
    French: Non!
    Osaka: I’m not well and find it really difficult
    French: Non!
    Osaka: fine, then I’ll quit
    Thats not professional , in sport you do not quit unless you are injured . Its rank bad manners for a start to other players and fans not least the tournament organisers
    Well given the organisers had said they were going to kick her out...

    They presumably thought a bit of blackmail would do the trick. They were wrong.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,295
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic this is an example of the problems that arise trying to do anything in such a densely populated and democratic country. We find overriding property rights hard and so we should. Article 1 of Protocol 1 of the ECHR provides:
    "Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law.

    The preceding provisions shall not, however, in any way impair the right of the State to enforce such laws as it deems necessary to control the use of property in accordance with the general interest or to secure payment of taxes or other contributions or penalties."

    So this is something fairly fundamental in human nature and in many respects the very basis of the rule of law.

    Its frustrating we take so long to do these things but the alternative is a State with the power to run roughshod over our property rights: would we really want that?

    In China it seems that owners don’t have to sell, leading to what are called “nail houses”:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/19/asia/gallery/china-nail-houses/index.html
    Weird. If I had been guessing a country where property rights were overridden easily China would have been pretty high up the list.
    The article is six years old I noticed as I linked to it. I wonder if the same conditions still apply.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    How bad would it be if they just stopped the press conferences after the matches? Do we ever get any startling revelations from them that is worth the hassle?

    A more fun solution would be if they were allowed to ask journalists similar questions.

    ‘You know that outfit you’re wearing? It sucks. You look like a lemon that’s been kept in sunlight.’

    ‘Your article yesterday contained five spelling mistakes. How does it feel, knowing that you’re so stupid you can’t do the basic parts of your job properly?’

    ‘Obviously, there’s been lots of talk about you shagging this other journalist. I hear your wife wants a divorce, have you a comment for the listeners at home?’

    I think press conferences would come to a rather sudden halt...
    Quite amused at the phalanx of bandwagon-jumpers trying to place themselves at the head of the mob. I wonder if that helps reduce the pressure?

    If it's in the contract to do media, then you do media. Though Article III.H allows exceptions as described. Were the tournament medical advisers consulted ?

    Perhaps some better advisers, and a break, required.
    Or maybe get a letter from your doctor?

    It sounds like the press conferences cause serious levels of anxiety. Not something she should be forced to do.
    I think in something like this it has to be treated like the Gold Cup rather than the Grand National. If the press conferences are optional for her they should be optional for everyone.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    ydoethur said:

    Perhaps a few basic facts might be helpful?

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/31/naomi-osaka-withdraws-french-open-press-conference-fines-tennis

    Addendum - interesting to note which way the actual big-time tennis players are going on this.

    The last paragraph is brilliant. I would like to think it’s deliberate dry wit:

    Two hours after Osaka’s announcement, Moretton conducted a press conference in which he read out a statement in French and English, calling Osaka’s withdrawal “unfortunate” and wishing her “the quickest possible recovery.” He left without fielding any questions from the press.
    This guy will be VERY lucky IF he's still the head of the French tennis federation next week.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Interesting graphs attached to this tweet - suggesting the uptick in cases started in Scotland first and has not yet appeared in Wales:

    Entirely unconnected to all this talk of fast vaccination, and with every acknowledgement that the contexts of the nations are very different, here are three of @BristOliver's case charts side by side.

    https://twitter.com/paulmainwood/status/1399618541075185665?s=21
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,313

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    How bad would it be if they just stopped the press conferences after the matches? Do we ever get any startling revelations from them that is worth the hassle?

    A simple solution:

    For missing the press conference in the final 20% of your prize money goes to charity.
    For each press conference you miss when you win a match 10% of your tournament prize money goes to charity.
    For each press conference after you have lost a match 5% of your tournament prize money goes to charity.
    Players can choose to attend/not attend on that basis.

    A finalist missing all their press conferences would lose 80% of their tournament fee.

    Incentivises enough players to attend, but allows those with an issue to skip if needed and raises some cash for charity.

    Better than a public spat over mental health.
    yeah and the funders of the tournament (TV and sponsors) don't get annoyed? There would not be a tournament if TV pulled out ,certainly not the prize money to which the players are used to
    It's quite possible to report on sports without subjecting the players to press conferences. You could, for example, report the sporting action. Personally I'm not interested in the quasi soap opera stuff and would much prefer it if the norm was for sportsmen to walk on the field, do their stuff, and simply walk off again.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    tlg86 said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    How bad would it be if they just stopped the press conferences after the matches? Do we ever get any startling revelations from them that is worth the hassle?

    A more fun solution would be if they were allowed to ask journalists similar questions.

    ‘You know that outfit you’re wearing? It sucks. You look like a lemon that’s been kept in sunlight.’

    ‘Your article yesterday contained five spelling mistakes. How does it feel, knowing that you’re so stupid you can’t do the basic parts of your job properly?’

    ‘Obviously, there’s been lots of talk about you shagging this other journalist. I hear your wife wants a divorce, have you a comment for the listeners at home?’

    I think press conferences would come to a rather sudden halt...
    Quite amused at the phalanx of bandwagon-jumpers trying to place themselves at the head of the mob. I wonder if that helps reduce the pressure?

    If it's in the contract to do media, then you do media. Though Article III.H allows exceptions as described. Were the tournament medical advisers consulted ?

    Perhaps some better advisers, and a break, required.
    Or maybe get a letter from your doctor?

    It sounds like the press conferences cause serious levels of anxiety. Not something she should be forced to do.
    I think in something like this it has to be treated like the Gold Cup rather than the Grand National. If the press conferences are optional for her they should be optional for everyone.
    Agreed. That would be an elegant and helpful solution.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,974

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    When you say "very much", is it a contractual requirement of playing, or something that is just assumed?
    It is contractual. Players sign up to the rules. Article III.H of the Grand Slam rules requires players to attend a post-match media conference within 30 minutes of the end of the match unless they are injured and physically unable to appear or the tournament referee agrees otherwise. Non-appearance makes the player liable to a fine of up to $20k.
    A report from her medical staff, saying that stress makes her physically unable to appear should have been offered up, with independent assessment in support. As much of a physical constraint as a pulled hamstring. If the French had still said she had to attend, then she should have withdrawn, citing their unreasonable response to that medical report.

    The only reason other players won't rally round her cause is that they are delighted she isn't there to beat them.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106

    And how much value do sporting press conferences really add? Or is it more a way of putting these sporting types in their place? You may be rich and successful, but we pay your wages...

    The 4 slams released a joint letter, and someone characterised it as "We have been around for decades. Players come and go..."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    ydoethur said:

    Perhaps a few basic facts might be helpful?

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/31/naomi-osaka-withdraws-french-open-press-conference-fines-tennis

    Addendum - interesting to note which way the actual big-time tennis players are going on this.

    The last paragraph is brilliant. I would like to think it’s deliberate dry wit:

    Two hours after Osaka’s announcement, Moretton conducted a press conference in which he read out a statement in French and English, calling Osaka’s withdrawal “unfortunate” and wishing her “the quickest possible recovery.” He left without fielding any questions from the press.
    This guy will be VERY lucky IF he's still the head of the French tennis federation next week.
    I was thinking more of the delightful hypocrisy it revealed.

    ‘We have disqualified a player for not answering questions from the media as it stressed her out. I will not answer questions from the media on this subject.’
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    edited June 2021
    On topic I was very involved negotiating for owners v the Welsh Office when the A55 expressway was announced through Colwyn Bay. In general the offers made including all the costs involved were fairly generous and most accepted their offer so they could relocate away from the affected area, not least for peace of mind

    However, there were some homes just outside the immediate area that were equally affected and did not qualify for the Welsh Office scheme, though some in exceptional circumstances were considered and compensation agreed accordingly.

    It is usually fairly soon after a route has been announced that compensation becomes available, and while there were issues with some home owners it was a relative small number
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,313
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I had never even heard of Naomi Osaka before today. She's a tennis player. She said she was depressed and therefore decided not to do a press conference.

    I am struggling to see a story here.

    But Piers Morgan decided there was one. Apparently, she's a "brat" and a "madam", because she chose to skip questions from the press.

    Now Piers is entitled to his opinions. But didn't Piers Morgan walk off a Good Morning Britain show when faced with questions he didn't like?

    Naomi Osaka defeated Sabrina Williams last year IIRC. Her leaving the French Open is a HUGE blow for the event and the sport.

    She's had some mental health issues, specifically difficulty dealing with being cross-examined about her ups & esp downs on the tennis court. There appears to have been a basic communications breakdown between her and French Open officials.

    For which both share blame, but more goes on them methinks, because it sure seems she has a legitimate personal issue AND she's one of the more interesting & potentially great players on the court today? Or NOT on the court in this case.
    I know we have the cult of the individual today and the mere mention of mental health means we must feel sorry for whoever claims it as an issue (despite how badly behaved they are) but the French open exists to play a tennis tournament. The prize money the players get (females now get as much as males and it is a lot) comes mainly from TV rights . So it stands to reason players have to engage with it. The French open needs to be about the tennis not her.
    Just wish the French Open would say that without having to take her issues into account.
    I know nothing of this, but my understanding is that these tournaments should be about evaluating via series of competitive match ups who is the best tennis player.

    If someone wishes only to play tennis, and not to appear at press conferences, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Of course, if that is unacceptable to the competition organizer, then they are free to make appearance a condition of play, and players are free to find that either tolerable or intolerable.

    My issue - such that it was - was more about Piers Morgan being a dickwad.
    The problem is that the competition is professional, and the prize money is being paid for by the media.

    Appearance at the press conferences is very much a condition of playing in the tournament, which Miss Osaka has now decided is unacceptable to her and withdrawn.
    Utter bilge.

    She's a professional tennis player, yes, and one of the best in the world. She talks with her racket.

    She should NOT have to perform off court if it affects her wellbeing.

    Tennis is displaying the fact that it is antediluvian and arrogant and, like football, that it stinks.
    There’s bits of my job that I hate too, like having to attend meetings and write reports to management, to justify what I’m doing and how I’m spending their money.

    I don’t tell them that I don’t want to report to them because it stresses me out, and expect them to just keep paying me regardless. I get on and do what I’m being paid to do, the good bits and the bad bits. It’s called being a professional.
    How bad would it be if they just stopped the press conferences after the matches? Do we ever get any startling revelations from them that is worth the hassle?

    A more fun solution would be if they were allowed to ask journalists similar questions.

    ‘You know that outfit you’re wearing? It sucks. You look like a lemon that’s been kept in sunlight.’

    ‘Your article yesterday contained five spelling mistakes. How does it feel, knowing that you’re so stupid you can’t do the basic parts of your job properly?’

    ‘Obviously, there’s been lots of talk about you shagging this other journalist. I hear your wife wants a divorce, have you a comment for the listeners at home?’

    I think press conferences would come to a rather sudden halt...
    Quite amused at the phalanx of bandwagon-jumpers trying to place themselves at the head of the mob. I wonder if that helps reduce the pressure?

    If it's in the contract to do media, then you do media. Though Article III.H allows exceptions as described. Were the tournament medical advisers consulted ?

    Perhaps some better advisers, and a break, required.
    Or maybe get a letter from your doctor?

    It sounds like the press conferences cause serious levels of anxiety. Not something she should be forced to do.
    I think in something like this it has to be treated like the Gold Cup rather than the Grand National. If the press conferences are optional for her they should be optional for everyone.
    Agreed. That would be an elegant and helpful solution.
    I have to admit I cannot understand why there is no mention of medical advisers. In the UK I would say she has a disability and allowing her not to perform at press conferences would be an obvious (and easy) reasonable adjustment. Or maybe in France you are allowed to discriminate against people with a disability?
This discussion has been closed.