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Punters confident that the Tories will win the July 1st Batley and Spen by-election – politicalbetti

13

Comments

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ClippP said:

    What is significant is the party Mike Smithson doesn't mention.
    The LibDems.
    Traditionally the LibDems would be looking to challenge strongly in a byelection wherever it was and whoever had held the seat previously. Now, not a mention.

    Not always, Mr Richard. It always depended on circumstances. So this is just yet another of those myths that you Tories have made up in order to belittle the Lib Dems.

    In passing, how do you rate the Tories' chances of holding on to Chesham and Amersham? This is a seat that the Conservatives have never lost, and now it looks like a marginal.
    Firstly I'm not a Tory.

    And yes the LibDems always looked to challenge at byelections.

    Sometimes they did well and sometimes they didn't.

    But they never gave up before they even started as they did in Hartlepool and Airdrie.

    As to C&A, not my part of the world, but as it contains plenty of the LibDems core vote of posh remainers they should do well.

    Though they may have a difficulty juggling their messages of "don't build more house" to the oldies and their "build houses" to the younger voters.

    Though whatever happens its almost certain to return to being a safe Conservative seat at the next general election.
    You voted Tory at the GE, didn't you?
    I did.

    And have done on occasions before.

    I've also voted numerous times for the LibDems, UKIP, Green (once) and various types of Independent.

    So what does that make me ?

    Some sort of shifting voter on the right half of the spectrum - those 'find your political location' tests tend to show me as economically centrist and somewhat libertarian (though I suspect they're biased to American viewpoints).

    But that doesn't make me a Tory - there are such people on this site but there is a difference between them and the right-of-centre types.

    Just as there is a difference between Labourites (horrible word) and various types of left-of-centre people.
    Phew. Thank goodness for that. I'd have had to adjust the very innards of my core model if you hadn't voted Tory. Which makes you a Tory right now. I can't be doing with all that 'axis' stuff. It's interesting but there's too much wriggle room with it.
    They voted for X therefore they are X is a dangerous view IMO as it ignores why they voted for X and so why they might stop voting for X.

    There were plenty of people who had voted Labour or LibDem in 2010 but then they stopped doing so.

    Also reminiscent of how Conservative politicians believed that 'their voters' would still vote for them in 1997 because they had in 1992.
    It's only dangerous if you assume once a Tory always a Tory, and I specifically don't. Take you, for example. You've spent many years in aggregate being a Tory but have had periods of remission. Perhaps even quite long periods. There's no pigeon holing going on here.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ClippP said:

    What is significant is the party Mike Smithson doesn't mention.
    The LibDems.
    Traditionally the LibDems would be looking to challenge strongly in a byelection wherever it was and whoever had held the seat previously. Now, not a mention.

    Not always, Mr Richard. It always depended on circumstances. So this is just yet another of those myths that you Tories have made up in order to belittle the Lib Dems.

    In passing, how do you rate the Tories' chances of holding on to Chesham and Amersham? This is a seat that the Conservatives have never lost, and now it looks like a marginal.
    Firstly I'm not a Tory.

    And yes the LibDems always looked to challenge at byelections.

    Sometimes they did well and sometimes they didn't.

    But they never gave up before they even started as they did in Hartlepool and Airdrie.

    As to C&A, not my part of the world, but as it contains plenty of the LibDems core vote of posh remainers they should do well.

    Though they may have a difficulty juggling their messages of "don't build more house" to the oldies and their "build houses" to the younger voters.

    Though whatever happens its almost certain to return to being a safe Conservative seat at the next general election.
    You voted Tory at the GE, didn't you?
    I did.

    And have done on occasions before.

    I've also voted numerous times for the LibDems, UKIP, Green (once) and various types of Independent.

    So what does that make me ?

    Some sort of shifting voter on the right half of the spectrum - those 'find your political location' tests tend to show me as economically centrist and somewhat libertarian (though I suspect they're biased to American viewpoints).

    But that doesn't make me a Tory - there are such people on this site but there is a difference between them and the right-of-centre types.

    Just as there is a difference between Labourites (horrible word) and various types of left-of-centre people.
    Phew. Thank goodness for that. I'd have had to adjust the very innards of my core model if you hadn't voted Tory. Which makes you a Tory right now. I can't be doing with all that 'axis' stuff. It's interesting but there's too much wriggle room with it.
    Maybe if you want fewer Tories, then the Labour Party should take a long hard look at itself and ask the question "why are our former voters voting Tory instead".

    Or you can just think "Tories, Tories everwhere!"
    The very last thing we want to be doing is having a long hard look at ourselves. That's vain and self-indulgent. We need to raise our gaze and look outwards. At the voters. Not just look at them either. We must SEE them. It won't be easy since the temptation is to look away. But you can't do that in politics if you want to gain power. It's a rough old trade and you've got to get right in there.
    It’s what lots miss about the Blair formula. Part of the magic was “I’m doing all this stuff that’s visible like Sure Start and new schools, so you won’t mind a nudge towards social reform bit by bit will you?”

    Getting committed progressives to understand the logic of slow progress that’s accepted and will win votes is the internal battle to be won. No point in radical change that gets reversed at the next election or won’t get voted for in the first place.

    I have this argument a lot with committed greens.
    Plays along with what used to be called "Nixon goes to China" too.

    Part of the irony about greenery is how the Tories in this country have a more green policy than the German Green party. Not that you'd know it listening to the UK Greens.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2021
    Survation Leader Ratings from their 25-26 May & 27-28 May polls. First indicator of a ‘Cummings Effect’

    Boris 42-38 and 42-41
    Sir Keir 27-38 and 26-40

    So Boris increases Gross Positives lead by 1 to 16, whilst net satisfaction remains +15
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    ....Meanwhile we've got a lying incompetent freeloader for our prime minister but we don't care!

    Many of us thought the country would go down the toilet after Brexit. Few realised it would happen so quickly

    Maybe his opponents should have put up a credible alternative at the last election then - rather than an enabler of racism who wanted to overturn the result of a referendum?
    I too am beginning to question whether Labour made a mistake choosing the quiet forensic type. I wonder if they gave enough thought to their opponent?

    If the brief had been to better an unscrupulous amoral chisseler rather than a simple incompetent I think they'd have gone for a brawler.

    Forget the forensics go for the groin. I'm thinking Jess Phillips or Andy Burnham.
    There might be something in this. Starmer's big score over Johnson was to be competence but it's been blown out of the water (for now) by the vaccines. That his meaningful input to the thing which has saved his bacon was similar to mine - to just not get in the way - isn't a detail to trouble most voters.
    Starmer's presumed forensic legal skills could be made for this moment. Seven hours of testimony from Dominic Cummings to be sifted and compared with evidence from Matt Hancock and Boris. Next PMQs could be interesting.

    Or yet another damp squib if Starmer yet again asks key questions but leaves the conclusions hanging in the air.
    It might not work out but Starmer is definitely going to up his game. We're going to see some sauce from him. He knows he's got a year max to get things rolling and secure his leadership into the GE. It's a massive prize - a shot at PM - and he won't leave anything on the pitch.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Pulpstar said:

    174,622 1sts
    380,855 2nds

    England numbers

    More good numbers.

    We're going to hit half the population double-vaccinated very, very soon.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    I would vote for anyone in Batley, or anyone in Britain, or anyone in the bloody world, who passed a law to burn all noisy motorbikes.

    Why are they suddenly so loud? Is it just me getting older and grumpier?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,607
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ClippP said:

    What is significant is the party Mike Smithson doesn't mention.
    The LibDems.
    Traditionally the LibDems would be looking to challenge strongly in a byelection wherever it was and whoever had held the seat previously. Now, not a mention.

    Not always, Mr Richard. It always depended on circumstances. So this is just yet another of those myths that you Tories have made up in order to belittle the Lib Dems.

    In passing, how do you rate the Tories' chances of holding on to Chesham and Amersham? This is a seat that the Conservatives have never lost, and now it looks like a marginal.
    Firstly I'm not a Tory.

    And yes the LibDems always looked to challenge at byelections.

    Sometimes they did well and sometimes they didn't.

    But they never gave up before they even started as they did in Hartlepool and Airdrie.

    As to C&A, not my part of the world, but as it contains plenty of the LibDems core vote of posh remainers they should do well.

    Though they may have a difficulty juggling their messages of "don't build more house" to the oldies and their "build houses" to the younger voters.

    Though whatever happens its almost certain to return to being a safe Conservative seat at the next general election.
    You voted Tory at the GE, didn't you?
    I did.

    And have done on occasions before.

    I've also voted numerous times for the LibDems, UKIP, Green (once) and various types of Independent.

    So what does that make me ?

    Some sort of shifting voter on the right half of the spectrum - those 'find your political location' tests tend to show me as economically centrist and somewhat libertarian (though I suspect they're biased to American viewpoints).

    But that doesn't make me a Tory - there are such people on this site but there is a difference between them and the right-of-centre types.

    Just as there is a difference between Labourites (horrible word) and various types of left-of-centre people.
    Phew. Thank goodness for that. I'd have had to adjust the very innards of my core model if you hadn't voted Tory. Which makes you a Tory right now. I can't be doing with all that 'axis' stuff. It's interesting but there's too much wriggle room with it.
    They voted for X therefore they are X is a dangerous view IMO as it ignores why they voted for X and so why they might stop voting for X.

    There were plenty of people who had voted Labour or LibDem in 2010 but then they stopped doing so.

    Also reminiscent of how Conservative politicians believed that 'their voters' would still vote for them in 1997 because they had in 1992.
    It's only dangerous if you assume once a Tory always a Tory, and I specifically don't. Take you, for example. You've spent many years in aggregate being a Tory but have had periods of remission. Perhaps even quite long periods. There's no pigeon holing going on here.
    But wasn't that what Labour's assumption about its lost voters was ?

    They've got nowhere else to go...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    2,568 1sts
    5,647 2nds

    NI
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,558
    edited May 2021
    "EXCLUSIVE: COVID-19 'has no credible natural ancestor' and was created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with 'retro-engineering' to make it seem like it naturally arose from bats, explosive new study claims
    An explosive new study claims researchers found 'unique fingerprints' in COVID-19 samples that they say could only have arisen from manipulation in a laboratory"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    COVID - does anyone get the impression these days that the Govt are actually employing much in the way of evidence when deciding on various restrictions or anti COVID measures, or are they more concerned about (simple?) messaging and “equity”. For example we see a headline this morning - “masks to be retained if India variant continues to spread”.

    Now in America they have specifically said that fully vaccinated people no longer need to wear masks. They presumably haven’t announced that on the basis of zero evidence? I suppose the difference is that in the US, CDC pronouncements are almost all “guidance” whereas in the U.K. many things are backed by force of law. As a result CDC are able to distinguish between advice for eg. vaccinated and unvaccinated people in a way that the U.K. Govt feels it can’t. Because of 1) issues of enforcement (especially in the absence of vaccine passports) and 2) accusations of discrimination (especially given vaccines aren’t yet available to all)

    But ultimately it means that U.K. Govt measures are well designed to maximise the balance between minimising restrictions to help business and the economy, and targeting restrictions most effectively to target COVID. We’ve seen this throughout where measures that from what we know play very little part in spreading COVID, are elevated to near equivalent status to those that do. Because without it it’s just “ all too complicated” and undermines the general message.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904

    Sandpit said:

    felix said:

    MattW said:

    Museums, theaters, cinemas and a wide range of other venues can reopen across The Netherlands from June 5, Prime Minister Mark Rutte announced late Friday.

    "This is actually the end of the lockdown," he told a news conference.

    Restaurants will be allowed to offer indoor dining again and opening hours can be extended until 10pm. The Dutch will also be allowed to invite up to four people to their homes instead of two.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/netherlands-coronavirus-lockdown-ends-june-5/

    New cases /million 7 day average : vaccinations/100
    Netherlands: 182, : 51.6
    UK: 42 : 92.3.....

    A number of EU countries are being quite foolish imo.

    In the Netherlands they have 70% of people with no active vaccine protection, and as you say a covid case rate of about 200.

    For a comparator, that is where we were on vaccines in mid-March.

    But their death figures are far better overall.
    Alternatively they've realised that vaccinating the vulnerable is the right thing to do before lifting lockdown while continuing to vaccinate - and hiding behind our sofas until every single person has been double vaccinated is redundant.
    Up to a point Lord Copper. Spain is now doing well on vaccines - starting on the under 50s. However, there are many millions older than that, myself includes who don't get a second jab until nearly August and vast numbers of youngsters who won't be vaxed before July. However they are about to allow Brits in without evidence of a negative test or a vaccine. I think that is reckless - the Indian variant is already in the country and in places the data is starting to tick up again.
    Yes, certain parts of Europe seem more determined to have a summer holiday season, than to prevent the next wave of the virus.

    One thing the scientists mostly miss, is that people on holiday do not behave in the same way socially as people in their home town. They act in ways designed to spread the virus around much more quickly.
    Especially so as the people who go on a foreign holiday during a global pandemic are by definition much more risk averse.
    Or the other way round?

    What is significant is the party Mike Smithson doesn't mention.

    The LibDems.

    Traditionally the LibDems would be looking to challenge strongly in a byelection wherever it was and whoever had held the seat previously.

    Now, not a mention.

    Total rubbish.

    Even at their peak, there were frequently by-elections where the Lib Dems effectively passed and weren't a factor.

    This sort of one is a classic case, and would have been even if the LDs were at 20% in the polls. A seat where they've never been higher than third, in a contest where they are throwing everything at a better prospect.

    I'm afraid PB is increasingly dominated by people like Richard, with no interest in having a serious, informed discussion.
    LOL

    A truly pathetic attempt to rewrite history.

    Rotherham 1994, LibDems start in third, gain 17%, finish second

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Rotherham_by-election

    Bradford South, 1994 LibDems start in third, gain 10%, finish second

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Bradford_South_by-election

    Hemsworth 1991, LibDems start in third, gain 4%, finish second

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Hemsworth_by-election

    Bradford North, 1990, LibDems start in third, gain 7%, finish second

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Bradford_North_by-election

    And those are only the examples from Yorkshire.

    Facts, something you LibDems have been in denial about for the last decade.
    Absolute balderdash,Mr Richard. The 1990s were a very different time for the Liberal Democrats. They were improving their vote share and growing everywhere - as illustrated by the examples you cite. And the Conservatives respected the rules.

    With the undermining of the political process by the current gang who have taken over the Conservative Party, I think a lot of people are not minded to participate in the pretence that we live in a democracy any longer.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    alex_ said:

    COVID - does anyone get the impression these days that the Govt are actually employing much in the way of evidence when deciding on various restrictions or anti COVID measures, or are they more concerned about (simple?) messaging and “equity”. For example we see a headline this morning - “masks to be retained if India variant continues to spread”.

    Now in America they have specifically said that fully vaccinated people no longer need to wear masks. They presumably haven’t announced that on the basis of zero evidence? I suppose the difference is that in the US, CDC pronouncements are almost all “guidance” whereas in the U.K. many things are backed by force of law. As a result CDC are able to distinguish between advice for eg. vaccinated and unvaccinated people in a way that the U.K. Govt feels it can’t. Because of 1) issues of enforcement (especially in the absence of vaccine passports) and 2) accusations of discrimination (especially given vaccines aren’t yet available to all)

    But ultimately it means that U.K. Govt measures are well designed to maximise the balance between minimising restrictions to help business and the economy, and targeting restrictions most effectively to target COVID. We’ve seen this throughout where measures that from what we know play very little part in spreading COVID, are elevated to near equivalent status to those that do. Because without it it’s just “ all too complicated” and undermines the general message.

    We do have vaccine passports. You register for the NHS app and it shows your personal vaccine status,
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724
    Reduced sensitivity of infectious SARS-CoV-2 variant B.1.617.2 to monoclonal antibodies and sera from convalescent and vaccinated individuals

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.26.445838v1


    Get your 2nd doses. Bit worrying about AZ compared to Pfizer as well.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    alex_ said:

    COVID - does anyone get the impression these days that the Govt are actually employing much in the way of evidence when deciding on various restrictions or anti COVID measures, or are they more concerned about (simple?) messaging and “equity”. For example we see a headline this morning - “masks to be retained if India variant continues to spread”.

    Now in America they have specifically said that fully vaccinated people no longer need to wear masks. They presumably haven’t announced that on the basis of zero evidence? I suppose the difference is that in the US, CDC pronouncements are almost all “guidance” whereas in the U.K. many things are backed by force of law. As a result CDC are able to distinguish between advice for eg. vaccinated and unvaccinated people in a way that the U.K. Govt feels it can’t. Because of 1) issues of enforcement (especially in the absence of vaccine passports) and 2) accusations of discrimination (especially given vaccines aren’t yet available to all)

    But ultimately it means that U.K. Govt measures are well designed to maximise the balance between minimising restrictions to help business and the economy, and targeting restrictions most effectively to target COVID. We’ve seen this throughout where measures that from what we know play very little part in spreading COVID, are elevated to near equivalent status to those that do. Because without it it’s just “ all too complicated” and undermines the general message.

    That's very true.

    There's also the fact that in the USA they're struggling to get people to come forward for their vaccine - its been available to all for quite a while now, but they're effectively having to bribe people to come forwards. So saying "get your jab and these restrictions go away" is a good incentive, but the problem is that the people rejecting the jab are primarily those who ignored the restrictions in the first place anyway..

    The USA still have not even first-dosed half the population yet and we are close to overtaking them now on second doses too.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Andy_JS said:

    "EXCLUSIVE: COVID-19 'has no credible natural ancestor' and was created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with 'retro-engineering' to make it seem like it naturally arose from bats, explosive new study claims
    An explosive new study claims researchers found 'unique fingerprints' in COVID-19 samples that they say could only have arisen from manipulation in a laboratory"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html

    FWIW one of the authors, Angus Dalgliesh, is an oncologist who once stood for UKIP. I’m not saying that completely disqualifies the study but I tend to be suspicious of studies with political ramifications authored by politicians (even those with a science background).

    I’m also a little taken aback by the “reverse engineering to cover their tracks” claim which sounds like a creationist saying God planted dinosaur fossils to test our faith.

    And it’s the Mail.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    Roger said:

    ....Meanwhile we've got a lying incompetent freeloader for our prime minister but we don't care!

    Many of us thought the country would go down the toilet after Brexit. Few realised it would happen so quickly

    The thing is, political opponents always claim that the PM of the day is a liar, or incompetent, or a freeloader, etc. This means that one comes along who actually is the attacks have been blunted and voters just think it’s the usual hyperbole.
    The contrast between G W Bush andTrump is particularly instructive here: at the time Bush was seen as appalling, stupid, possibly the worst President ever. And the Trump came along and made him look like Lincoln in comparison, but any attempts to warn voters of this were made much harder by the fact that that is what political opponents always say.
    A very good post. G W Bush did seem to come over as not very bright, yet he has shone since.

    It is difficult to believe anyone (within a democracy) will come close to Trump so comparing Boris to Trump is not wise for the reasons you say.

    There are characteristics that do become apparent early on. For instance May came across as honest, but stubborn and inflexible and not a communicator. Boris seems to be not concerned with any detail, yet willing to state stuff that it turns out not to be true. In many cases this may not be intentional, but there is no correction afterwards. The quote to remember is the one in front of the Committee where Andrew Tyrie said 'That is very interesting Boris, except none of it is really true is it Boris'. He was just rattling off the old untrue EU rules myths. This has all continued as PM eg border down the Irish sea stuff. This seems to be reflected in his life generally, which appears chaotic. It may be a good trait for a 'on the hoof' campaigner, but not for a CEO/PM.

    He is however not a Trump and we should remember that when being critical.
    GWB is a reminder that being bright isn't everything. Like McCain, he was an honourable conservative, a distinguished tradition to be respected.
    But GWB is, in fact, very bright. He has a history degree from Yale and an MBA from Harvard.

    What he also understood is that appearing to be too cerebral is something of a turnoff to American Republican voters.

    It was the trick Reagan played - another very intelligent man who played the buffoon to perfection for much of his career. Or Bill Clinton, for the matter of that. And it’s a trick Hilary Clinton couldn’t quite pull off.
    I wonder if there's any politicians in the UK who are really very intelligent but are capable of playing the buffoon to perfection?
    I don’t think he’s quite got it right yet. The very intelligent part, yes, but he’s still projecting the boring lawyer image.

    Oh, sorry, were you not talking about Starmer?
    He's getting practice with the buffoonery though.

    That trip to the pub during the local elections could have been set to the Benny Hill theme tune.
    And did you see him boxing a punch bag, it was just cringeworthy
    Two strikes, he's got to be careful that there's not a third.
    image
    Laff! Classic Keith!!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ClippP said:

    What is significant is the party Mike Smithson doesn't mention.
    The LibDems.
    Traditionally the LibDems would be looking to challenge strongly in a byelection wherever it was and whoever had held the seat previously. Now, not a mention.

    Not always, Mr Richard. It always depended on circumstances. So this is just yet another of those myths that you Tories have made up in order to belittle the Lib Dems.

    In passing, how do you rate the Tories' chances of holding on to Chesham and Amersham? This is a seat that the Conservatives have never lost, and now it looks like a marginal.
    Firstly I'm not a Tory.

    And yes the LibDems always looked to challenge at byelections.

    Sometimes they did well and sometimes they didn't.

    But they never gave up before they even started as they did in Hartlepool and Airdrie.

    As to C&A, not my part of the world, but as it contains plenty of the LibDems core vote of posh remainers they should do well.

    Though they may have a difficulty juggling their messages of "don't build more house" to the oldies and their "build houses" to the younger voters.

    Though whatever happens its almost certain to return to being a safe Conservative seat at the next general election.
    You voted Tory at the GE, didn't you?
    I did.

    And have done on occasions before.

    I've also voted numerous times for the LibDems, UKIP, Green (once) and various types of Independent.

    So what does that make me ?

    Some sort of shifting voter on the right half of the spectrum - those 'find your political location' tests tend to show me as economically centrist and somewhat libertarian (though I suspect they're biased to American viewpoints).

    But that doesn't make me a Tory - there are such people on this site but there is a difference between them and the right-of-centre types.

    Just as there is a difference between Labourites (horrible word) and various types of left-of-centre people.
    Phew. Thank goodness for that. I'd have had to adjust the very innards of my core model if you hadn't voted Tory. Which makes you a Tory right now. I can't be doing with all that 'axis' stuff. It's interesting but there's too much wriggle room with it.
    Maybe if you want fewer Tories, then the Labour Party should take a long hard look at itself and ask the question "why are our former voters voting Tory instead".

    Or you can just think "Tories, Tories everwhere!"
    The very last thing we want to be doing is having a long hard look at ourselves. That's vain and self-indulgent. We need to raise our gaze and look outwards. At the voters. Not just look at them either. We must SEE them. It won't be easy since the temptation is to look away. But you can't do that in politics if you want to gain power. It's a rough old trade and you've got to get right in there.
    It’s what lots miss about the Blair formula. Part of the magic was “I’m doing all this stuff that’s visible like Sure Start and new schools, so you won’t mind a nudge towards social reform bit by bit will you?”

    Getting committed progressives to understand the logic of slow progress that’s accepted and will win votes is the internal battle to be won. No point in radical change that gets reversed at the next election or won’t get voted for in the first place.

    I have this argument a lot with committed greens.
    Plays along with what used to be called "Nixon goes to China" too.

    Part of the irony about greenery is how the Tories in this country have a more green policy than the German Green party. Not that you'd know it listening to the UK Greens.
    Not entirely

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/oct/02/first-new-deep-coalmine-in-uk-for-30-years-gets-green-light
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,607
    ClippP said:

    Sandpit said:

    felix said:

    MattW said:

    Museums, theaters, cinemas and a wide range of other venues can reopen across The Netherlands from June 5, Prime Minister Mark Rutte announced late Friday.

    "This is actually the end of the lockdown," he told a news conference.

    Restaurants will be allowed to offer indoor dining again and opening hours can be extended until 10pm. The Dutch will also be allowed to invite up to four people to their homes instead of two.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/netherlands-coronavirus-lockdown-ends-june-5/

    New cases /million 7 day average : vaccinations/100
    Netherlands: 182, : 51.6
    UK: 42 : 92.3.....

    A number of EU countries are being quite foolish imo.

    In the Netherlands they have 70% of people with no active vaccine protection, and as you say a covid case rate of about 200.

    For a comparator, that is where we were on vaccines in mid-March.

    But their death figures are far better overall.
    Alternatively they've realised that vaccinating the vulnerable is the right thing to do before lifting lockdown while continuing to vaccinate - and hiding behind our sofas until every single person has been double vaccinated is redundant.
    Up to a point Lord Copper. Spain is now doing well on vaccines - starting on the under 50s. However, there are many millions older than that, myself includes who don't get a second jab until nearly August and vast numbers of youngsters who won't be vaxed before July. However they are about to allow Brits in without evidence of a negative test or a vaccine. I think that is reckless - the Indian variant is already in the country and in places the data is starting to tick up again.
    Yes, certain parts of Europe seem more determined to have a summer holiday season, than to prevent the next wave of the virus.

    One thing the scientists mostly miss, is that people on holiday do not behave in the same way socially as people in their home town. They act in ways designed to spread the virus around much more quickly.
    Especially so as the people who go on a foreign holiday during a global pandemic are by definition much more risk averse.
    Or the other way round?

    What is significant is the party Mike Smithson doesn't mention.

    The LibDems.

    Traditionally the LibDems would be looking to challenge strongly in a byelection wherever it was and whoever had held the seat previously.

    Now, not a mention.

    Total rubbish.

    Even at their peak, there were frequently by-elections where the Lib Dems effectively passed and weren't a factor.

    This sort of one is a classic case, and would have been even if the LDs were at 20% in the polls. A seat where they've never been higher than third, in a contest where they are throwing everything at a better prospect.

    I'm afraid PB is increasingly dominated by people like Richard, with no interest in having a serious, informed discussion.
    LOL

    A truly pathetic attempt to rewrite history.

    Rotherham 1994, LibDems start in third, gain 17%, finish second

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Rotherham_by-election

    Bradford South, 1994 LibDems start in third, gain 10%, finish second

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Bradford_South_by-election

    Hemsworth 1991, LibDems start in third, gain 4%, finish second

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Hemsworth_by-election

    Bradford North, 1990, LibDems start in third, gain 7%, finish second

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Bradford_North_by-election

    And those are only the examples from Yorkshire.

    Facts, something you LibDems have been in denial about for the last decade.
    Absolute balderdash,Mr Richard. The 1990s were a very different time for the Liberal Democrats. They were improving their vote share and growing everywhere - as illustrated by the examples you cite. And the Conservatives respected the rules.

    With the undermining of the political process by the current gang who have taken over the Conservative Party, I think a lot of people are not minded to participate in the pretence that we live in a democracy any longer.
    Or perhaps the LibDems blatant, and totally unnecessary, betrayal on tuition fees destroyed the pretence that they were the 'nice' party.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Reduced sensitivity of infectious SARS-CoV-2 variant B.1.617.2 to monoclonal antibodies and sera from convalescent and vaccinated individuals

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.26.445838v1


    Get your 2nd doses. Bit worrying about AZ compared to Pfizer as well.

    AZ has done a good job but it does not have the same neutralising efficacy that Pfizer or Moderna do.
    All over 50 AZ recipients should be offered an mRNA booster.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    I would vote for anyone in Batley, or anyone in Britain, or anyone in the bloody world, who passed a law to burn all noisy motorbikes.

    Why are they suddenly so loud? Is it just me getting older and grumpier?

    Grumpy? You? You and Malc are the burning rays of sunshine here.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Andy_JS said:

    "EXCLUSIVE: COVID-19 'has no credible natural ancestor' and was created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with 'retro-engineering' to make it seem like it naturally arose from bats, explosive new study claims
    An explosive new study claims researchers found 'unique fingerprints' in COVID-19 samples that they say could only have arisen from manipulation in a laboratory"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html

    I saw that. I can’t work out if the scientists are cranks or legit

    “St George’s University London”?

    If legit, wow

    Also see this thread, an analysis of opinions on the lab leak. Conclusion: a few bone heads say “0% chance it came from the lab” - ie people with tiny minds who made up those minds on day one

    Yet the people with the most expertise range from 50-90% sure it came from the lab

    ‘Nate silver (@NateSilver538) did an informal poll soliciting people to hazard a guess at the percent chance SARS2 pandemic arose as a result of a lab leak. I decided to plot the submissions so far. I upsized and colored green responses coming from PhDs w/ relevant expertise.’

    https://twitter.com/scotub/status/1398367391546064899?s=21
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    edited May 2021
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    I would vote for anyone in Batley, or anyone in Britain, or anyone in the bloody world, who passed a law to burn all noisy motorbikes.

    Why are they suddenly so loud? Is it just me getting older and grumpier?

    Grumpy? You? You and Malc are the burning rays of sunshine here.
    Thanks. Chuffed

    Serious question tho, are they getting louder? Or is it because I’m older, or is it because streets are quieter because quieter cars and less traffic, so they stick out? Or is it because of the quality of noise they pump out, a new dark rasping sound? Hard to say

    A quick Google says people have been attacked, even murdered, because of noisy bikes

    https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2021/04/15/father-stabbed-to-death-after-argument-about-motorbike-noise/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    I think Labour should narrowly hold Batley and Spen now they have picked a popular local candidate in Jo Cox's sister and the Tory candidate is a councillor from Leeds.

    Much could depend on whether the Heavy Woolens stand again as seems likely as their candidate is basically more UKIP than UKIP and could take Leave votes which would otherwise go Tory.

    Galloway I doubt will make much impact, his peak was Iraq War protest votes.

    Chesham and Amersham I think will be a narrow Tory hold
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    MPs in touch with public?


    LOL. Either that’s what people thought the rules should be for everyone else but themselves, or they have no understanding of what an actual lockdown looked like in those countries.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Pulpstar said:

    174,622 1sts
    380,855 2nds

    England numbers

    More good numbers.

    We're going to hit half the population double-vaccinated very, very soon.
    I'm the last in this household to get my second jab - mine is next Thursday
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    MrEd said:

    On header, not as convinced about the Tories winning this one as I was about them winning Hartlepool. The difference is the large Bangladeshi / Pakistani vote present in B&S. Look at Peterborough in the 2019 by-election. Everyone thought it would be a Tory win because of the Brexit vote but Labour mobilised the ethnic minority vote which made all the difference. By-elections are all about turnout. If Labour can get this bloc of voters out, it may well keep the seat.

    The one slight caveat I would add to this is that I do wonder whether the recent furore over the Batley Grammar School incident is also going to drive up turnout amongst other groups as well, especially if the Labour candidate gets into an awkward spot when asked to condemn it (undoubtedly, it will come up as a topic). I can see a scenario where Labour gets tarred as the "pro-Muslim" party and that persuades the Heavy Woollens to vote Conservative.

    The look & feel of this one are at odds for me. It looks like a Con win. The analytics steer that way. Not as strongly as Pools but they still do. Galloway isn't great for Labour and that Woollens vote won't touch them with a bargepole. Interesting bunch, I must say, the Woollens. At the GE they wanted to "talk about things other politicians are scared to" and create a "unifying national identity". I should cocoa.

    So, yep, looks like a Con win. But the funny thing is that it feels (to me) like a Labour win. It's no more than a hunch, fueled by hope and instinct not wonkery, I haven't done a bet, and I'm definitely not putting my 'superforecaster' rep on the line this time, but when something looks one way and feels another I've learnt (with the odd exception) to go with how it feels and I'm doing that here.

    Labour hold Batley & Spen. It signals just the start of a change in the political weather.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Floater said:

    Pulpstar said:

    174,622 1sts
    380,855 2nds

    England numbers

    More good numbers.

    We're going to hit half the population double-vaccinated very, very soon.
    I'm the last in this household to get my second jab - mine is next Thursday
    Great news.

    As the second doses are done, first doses really should be prioritised ("surged") to areas like parts of Lancashire, Leicester etc that have high case rates.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "EXCLUSIVE: COVID-19 'has no credible natural ancestor' and was created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with 'retro-engineering' to make it seem like it naturally arose from bats, explosive new study claims
    An explosive new study claims researchers found 'unique fingerprints' in COVID-19 samples that they say could only have arisen from manipulation in a laboratory"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html

    FWIW one of the authors, Angus Dalgliesh, is an oncologist who once stood for UKIP. I’m not saying that completely disqualifies the study but I tend to be suspicious of studies with political ramifications authored by politicians (even those with a science background).

    I’m also a little taken aback by the “reverse engineering to cover their tracks” claim which sounds like a creationist saying God planted dinosaur fossils to test our faith.

    And it’s the Mail.
    The most monumentally selective and pompous bullsh*t I have read for some time.

    Certain members of the SAGE committee are life-long communists. Does this mean we can question their recommendations and SAGE's decisions on the basis of political ramifications?

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,965
    edited May 2021
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    I would vote for anyone in Batley, or anyone in Britain, or anyone in the bloody world, who passed a law to burn all noisy motorbikes.

    Why are they suddenly so loud? Is it just me getting older and grumpier?

    Grumpy? You? You and Malc are the burning rays of sunshine here.
    Thanks. Chuffed

    Serious question tho, are they getting louder? Or is it because I’m older, or is it because streets are quieter because quieter cars and less traffic, so they stick out? Or is it because of the quality of noise they pump out, a new dark rasping sound? Hard to say

    A quick Google says people have been attacked, even murdered, because of noisy bikes

    https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2021/04/15/father-stabbed-to-death-after-argument-about-motorbike-noise/
    Philistine


  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    Sandpit said:

    MPs in touch with public?


    LOL. Either that’s what people thought the rules should be for everyone else but themselves, or they have no understanding of what an actual lockdown looked like in those countries.
    There wasn't even a lockdown in Taiwan!
    Borders shut. Super strict quarantine. Security guards on every floor of hotels. Big fines. Effective contact tracing.
    Otherwise life went on as pretty normal.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    I would vote for anyone in Batley, or anyone in Britain, or anyone in the bloody world, who passed a law to burn all noisy motorbikes.

    Why are they suddenly so loud? Is it just me getting older and grumpier?

    Grumpy? You? You and Malc are the burning rays of sunshine here.
    Thanks. Chuffed

    Serious question tho, are they getting louder? Or is it because I’m older, or is it because streets are quieter because quieter cars and less traffic, so they stick out? Or is it because of the quality of noise they pump out, a new dark rasping sound? Hard to say

    A quick Google says people have been attacked, even murdered, because of noisy bikes

    https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2021/04/15/father-stabbed-to-death-after-argument-about-motorbike-noise/
    I can believe it. People have been murdered over Avril Lavigne tickets and access to a Wi Fi admin password, so that doesn’t surprise me.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    MPs in touch with public?


    LOL. Either that’s what people thought the rules should be for everyone else but themselves, or they have no understanding of what an actual lockdown looked like in those countries.
    There wasn't even a lockdown in Taiwan!
    Borders shut. Super strict quarantine. Security guards on every floor of hotels. Big fines. Effective contact tracing.
    Otherwise life went on as pretty normal.
    It’s a pretty pants poll TBF.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited May 2021
    Biden returns the US to a big government agenda with a huge $6 trillion spending programme, which would be the biggest expansion in the US Federal government since LBJ and $1.2 trillion more than the $4.8 trillion of spending Trump was proposing.

    It would be partly funded by a $3 trillion increase in corporation tax, income tax and capital gains tax.

    Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell on Friday called the plan a "socialist daydream".

    Senator Jerry Moran of Kansas said it would "saddle future generations with burdensome levels of debt".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57285970
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Leon said:


    Serious question tho, are they getting louder? Or is it because I’m older, or is it because streets are quieter because quieter cars and less traffic, so they stick out? Or is it because of the quality of noise they pump out, a new dark rasping sound? Hard to say


    The noise regs are tighter than they have ever been. EU rules stipulate 80-86db depending on engine size.

    However, fitting aftermarket exhausts which aren't road legal and, in some cases are even too loud to be used on a track, is very common.

    I have a full titanium Akrapovic race system on my Fireblade SP. It's fucking fire. 106db. LOL.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "EXCLUSIVE: COVID-19 'has no credible natural ancestor' and was created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with 'retro-engineering' to make it seem like it naturally arose from bats, explosive new study claims
    An explosive new study claims researchers found 'unique fingerprints' in COVID-19 samples that they say could only have arisen from manipulation in a laboratory"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html

    I saw that. I can’t work out if the scientists are cranks or legit

    “St George’s University London”?

    If legit, wow

    Also see this thread, an analysis of opinions on the lab leak. Conclusion: a few bone heads say “0% chance it came from the lab” - ie people with tiny minds who made up those minds on day one

    Yet the people with the most expertise range from 50-90% sure it came from the lab

    ‘Nate silver (@NateSilver538) did an informal poll soliciting people to hazard a guess at the percent chance SARS2 pandemic arose as a result of a lab leak. I decided to plot the submissions so far. I upsized and colored green responses coming from PhDs w/ relevant expertise.’

    https://twitter.com/scotub/status/1398367391546064899?s=21
    Oh, St George's, UoL, does exist all right - thoigh not in quite the orthography quoted: https://www.sgul.ac.uk/

    And a person of about the right name can be found.

    But what concerns me is that I can't find that paper in the QRB Discovery web page, whether as published or accepted. I May be doing something wrong, but the two authors did publish something before (on a candidate vaccine):

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/qrb-discovery/article/biovacc19-a-candidate-vaccine-for-covid19-sarscov2-developed-from-analysis-of-its-general-method-of-action-for-infectivity/DBBC0FA6E3763B0067CAAD8F3363E527
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited May 2021

    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "EXCLUSIVE: COVID-19 'has no credible natural ancestor' and was created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with 'retro-engineering' to make it seem like it naturally arose from bats, explosive new study claims
    An explosive new study claims researchers found 'unique fingerprints' in COVID-19 samples that they say could only have arisen from manipulation in a laboratory"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html

    FWIW one of the authors, Angus Dalgliesh, is an oncologist who once stood for UKIP. I’m not saying that completely disqualifies the study but I tend to be suspicious of studies with political ramifications authored by politicians (even those with a science background).

    I’m also a little taken aback by the “reverse engineering to cover their tracks” claim which sounds like a creationist saying God planted dinosaur fossils to test our faith.

    And it’s the Mail.
    The most monumentally selective and pompous bullsh*t I have read for some time.

    Certain members of the SAGE committee are life-long communists. Does this mean we can question their recommendations and SAGE's decisions on the basis of political ramifications?

    Yes. 100% you can, I do it all the time. Many in SAGE and Indie SAGE, of which Susan Michie (it is to her you refer - there are no others) are partisan hacks. I disavow most of what they say because of this. Your clutching at the wrong straw man if you think I’m a Cosplay SAGE fan. SAGE however has some balance as it is so damn big.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "EXCLUSIVE: COVID-19 'has no credible natural ancestor' and was created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with 'retro-engineering' to make it seem like it naturally arose from bats, explosive new study claims
    An explosive new study claims researchers found 'unique fingerprints' in COVID-19 samples that they say could only have arisen from manipulation in a laboratory"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html

    FWIW one of the authors, Angus Dalgliesh, is an oncologist who once stood for UKIP. I’m not saying that completely disqualifies the study but I tend to be suspicious of studies with political ramifications authored by politicians (even those with a science background).

    I’m also a little taken aback by the “reverse engineering to cover their tracks” claim which sounds like a creationist saying God planted dinosaur fossils to test our faith.

    And it’s the Mail.
    The most monumentally selective and pompous bullsh*t I have read for some time.

    Certain members of the SAGE committee are life-long communists. Does this mean we can question their recommendations and SAGE's decisions on the basis of political ramifications?

    Well, yes, it does. The precedent of Lysenko tells us exactly that.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    On header, not as convinced about the Tories winning this one as I was about them winning Hartlepool. The difference is the large Bangladeshi / Pakistani vote present in B&S. Look at Peterborough in the 2019 by-election. Everyone thought it would be a Tory win because of the Brexit vote but Labour mobilised the ethnic minority vote which made all the difference. By-elections are all about turnout. If Labour can get this bloc of voters out, it may well keep the seat.

    The one slight caveat I would add to this is that I do wonder whether the recent furore over the Batley Grammar School incident is also going to drive up turnout amongst other groups as well, especially if the Labour candidate gets into an awkward spot when asked to condemn it (undoubtedly, it will come up as a topic). I can see a scenario where Labour gets tarred as the "pro-Muslim" party and that persuades the Heavy Woollens to vote Conservative.

    The look & feel of this one are at odds for me. It looks like a Con win. The analytics steer that way. Not as strongly as Pools but they still do. Galloway isn't great for Labour and that Woollens vote won't touch them with a bargepole. Interesting bunch, I must say, the Woollens. At the GE they wanted to "talk about things other politicians are scared to" and create a "unifying national identity". I should cocoa.

    So, yep, looks like a Con win. But the funny thing is that it feels (to me) like a Labour win. It's no more than a hunch, fueled by hope and instinct not wonkery, I haven't done a bet, and I'm definitely not putting my 'superforecaster' rep on the line this time, but when something looks one way and feels another I've learnt (with the odd exception) to go with how it feels and I'm doing that here.

    Labour hold Batley & Spen. It signals just the start of a change in the political weather.
    I'm not sure either. At even money with a gun to my head I'd back the Tories but it is no bet for me.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,250
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    I would vote for anyone in Batley, or anyone in Britain, or anyone in the bloody world, who passed a law to burn all noisy motorbikes.

    Why are they suddenly so loud? Is it just me getting older and grumpier?

    Grumpy? You? You and Malc are the burning rays of sunshine here.
    Thanks. Chuffed

    Serious question tho, are they getting louder? Or is it because I’m older, or is it because streets are quieter because quieter cars and less traffic, so they stick out? Or is it because of the quality of noise they pump out, a new dark rasping sound? Hard to say

    A quick Google says people have been attacked, even murdered, because of noisy bikes

    https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2021/04/15/father-stabbed-to-death-after-argument-about-motorbike-noise/
    I can believe it. People have been murdered over Avril Lavigne tickets and access to a Wi Fi admin password, so that doesn’t surprise me.
    Most loud motorbikes have been modified to make them noisier, and are therefore uninsured. After all, if you were an insurer you'd think twice about a customer who proclaims their intention to ride like an idiot. The same is true of loud cars. That's why driving convictions often include an additional charge of 'without insurance': policies are generally void if the vehicle has been 'modified'.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    I would vote for anyone in Batley, or anyone in Britain, or anyone in the bloody world, who passed a law to burn all noisy motorbikes.

    Why are they suddenly so loud? Is it just me getting older and grumpier?

    Grumpy? You? You and Malc are the burning rays of sunshine here.
    Thanks. Chuffed

    Serious question tho, are they getting louder? Or is it because I’m older, or is it because streets are quieter because quieter cars and less traffic, so they stick out? Or is it because of the quality of noise they pump out, a new dark rasping sound? Hard to say

    A quick Google says people have been attacked, even murdered, because of noisy bikes

    https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2021/04/15/father-stabbed-to-death-after-argument-about-motorbike-noise/
    Might be you, though IANAmedicalDr:

    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/hyperacusis/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724
    HYUFD said:

    I think Labour should narrowly hold Batley and Spen now they have picked a popular local candidate in Jo Cox's sister and the Tory candidate is a councillor from Leeds.

    Much could depend on whether the Heavy Woolens stand again as seems likely as their candidate is basically more UKIP than UKIP and could take Leave votes which would otherwise go Tory.

    Galloway I doubt will make much impact, his peak was Iraq War protest votes.

    Chesham and Amersham I think will be a narrow Tory hold

    Chesham a narrow hold? Interesting. LibDems are 19 on BF.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:


    Serious question tho, are they getting louder? Or is it because I’m older, or is it because streets are quieter because quieter cars and less traffic, so they stick out? Or is it because of the quality of noise they pump out, a new dark rasping sound? Hard to say


    The noise regs are tighter than they have ever been. EU rules stipulate 80-86db depending on engine size.

    However, fitting aftermarket exhausts which aren't road legal and, in some cases are even too loud to be used on a track, is very common.

    I have a full titanium Akrapovic race system on my Fireblade SP. It's fucking fire. 106db. LOL.
    Thanks, that was my suspicion, a new fashion for pimping exhaust noise, by insecure male fantasists with fake military backgrounds
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    HYUFD said:

    I think Labour should narrowly hold Batley and Spen now they have picked a popular local candidate in Jo Cox's sister and the Tory candidate is a councillor from Leeds.

    Much could depend on whether the Heavy Woolens stand again as seems likely as their candidate is basically more UKIP than UKIP and could take Leave votes which would otherwise go Tory.

    Galloway I doubt will make much impact, his peak was Iraq War protest votes.

    Chesham and Amersham I think will be a narrow Tory hold

    Chesham a narrow hold? Interesting. LibDems are 19 on BF.
    Tories by 15% is my gut on that
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:


    Serious question tho, are they getting louder? Or is it because I’m older, or is it because streets are quieter because quieter cars and less traffic, so they stick out? Or is it because of the quality of noise they pump out, a new dark rasping sound? Hard to say


    The noise regs are tighter than they have ever been. EU rules stipulate 80-86db depending on engine size.

    However, fitting aftermarket exhausts which aren't road legal and, in some cases are even too loud to be used on a track, is very common.

    I have a full titanium Akrapovic race system on my Fireblade SP. It's fucking fire. 106db. LOL.
    Thanks, that was my suspicion, a new fashion for pimping exhaust noise, by insecure male fantasists with fake military backgrounds
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited May 2021

    HYUFD said:

    I think Labour should narrowly hold Batley and Spen now they have picked a popular local candidate in Jo Cox's sister and the Tory candidate is a councillor from Leeds.

    Much could depend on whether the Heavy Woolens stand again as seems likely as their candidate is basically more UKIP than UKIP and could take Leave votes which would otherwise go Tory.

    Galloway I doubt will make much impact, his peak was Iraq War protest votes.

    Chesham and Amersham I think will be a narrow Tory hold

    Chesham a narrow hold? Interesting. LibDems are 19 on BF.
    It was 55% Remain and is in an area concerned about greenbelt development and HS2, there will be a swing to the LDs certainly but the Tories should hold on
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited May 2021

    HYUFD said:

    I think Labour should narrowly hold Batley and Spen now they have picked a popular local candidate in Jo Cox's sister and the Tory candidate is a councillor from Leeds.

    Much could depend on whether the Heavy Woolens stand again as seems likely as their candidate is basically more UKIP than UKIP and could take Leave votes which would otherwise go Tory.

    Galloway I doubt will make much impact, his peak was Iraq War protest votes.

    Chesham and Amersham I think will be a narrow Tory hold

    Chesham a narrow hold? Interesting. LibDems are 19 on BF.
    For value the LDs on Betfair to win C&A is the best bet out there at the moment. they've got a better than 5% chance of winning
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,965
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:


    Serious question tho, are they getting louder? Or is it because I’m older, or is it because streets are quieter because quieter cars and less traffic, so they stick out? Or is it because of the quality of noise they pump out, a new dark rasping sound? Hard to say


    The noise regs are tighter than they have ever been. EU rules stipulate 80-86db depending on engine size.

    However, fitting aftermarket exhausts which aren't road legal and, in some cases are even too loud to be used on a track, is very common.

    I have a full titanium Akrapovic race system on my Fireblade SP. It's fucking fire. 106db. LOL.
    Been stopped 3 or 4 times by police while on bikes (I know, must try harder), none of them gave a toss about the aftermarket pipes. One of them, a motorbike cop, even said he preferred them as anything to make car drivers aware that a bike was in the vicinity was a good thing iho.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Will Starmer keep his deposit in Amersham ?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,250
    edited May 2021
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "EXCLUSIVE: COVID-19 'has no credible natural ancestor' and was created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with 'retro-engineering' to make it seem like it naturally arose from bats, explosive new study claims
    An explosive new study claims researchers found 'unique fingerprints' in COVID-19 samples that they say could only have arisen from manipulation in a laboratory"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html

    FWIW one of the authors, Angus Dalgliesh, is an oncologist who once stood for UKIP. I’m not saying that completely disqualifies the study but I tend to be suspicious of studies with political ramifications authored by politicians (even those with a science background).

    I’m also a little taken aback by the “reverse engineering to cover their tracks” claim which sounds like a creationist saying God planted dinosaur fossils to test our faith.

    And it’s the Mail.
    The most monumentally selective and pompous bullsh*t I have read for some time.

    Certain members of the SAGE committee are life-long communists. Does this mean we can question their recommendations and SAGE's decisions on the basis of political ramifications?

    Yes. 100% you can, I do it all the time. Many in SAGE and Indie SAGE, of which Susan Michie (it is to her you refer - there are no others) are partisan hacks. I disavow most of what they say because of this. Your clutching at the wrong straw man if you think I’m a Cosplay SAGE fan. SAGE however has some balance as it is so damn big.
    It's remarkable that someone can be a life-long communist without so much as a blush.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    On header, not as convinced about the Tories winning this one as I was about them winning Hartlepool. The difference is the large Bangladeshi / Pakistani vote present in B&S. Look at Peterborough in the 2019 by-election. Everyone thought it would be a Tory win because of the Brexit vote but Labour mobilised the ethnic minority vote which made all the difference. By-elections are all about turnout. If Labour can get this bloc of voters out, it may well keep the seat.

    The one slight caveat I would add to this is that I do wonder whether the recent furore over the Batley Grammar School incident is also going to drive up turnout amongst other groups as well, especially if the Labour candidate gets into an awkward spot when asked to condemn it (undoubtedly, it will come up as a topic). I can see a scenario where Labour gets tarred as the "pro-Muslim" party and that persuades the Heavy Woollens to vote Conservative.

    The look & feel of this one are at odds for me. It looks like a Con win. The analytics steer that way. Not as strongly as Pools but they still do. Galloway isn't great for Labour and that Woollens vote won't touch them with a bargepole. Interesting bunch, I must say, the Woollens. At the GE they wanted to "talk about things other politicians are scared to" and create a "unifying national identity". I should cocoa.

    So, yep, looks like a Con win. But the funny thing is that it feels (to me) like a Labour win. It's no more than a hunch, fueled by hope and instinct not wonkery, I haven't done a bet, and I'm definitely not putting my 'superforecaster' rep on the line this time, but when something looks one way and feels another I've learnt (with the odd exception) to go with how it feels and I'm doing that here.

    Labour hold Batley & Spen. It signals just the start of a change in the political weather.
    I'm not sure either. At even money with a gun to my head I'd back the Tories but it is no bet for me.
    I reckon close. Either of the two at better than evens is value for me.
    It is that close.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:


    Serious question tho, are they getting louder? Or is it because I’m older, or is it because streets are quieter because quieter cars and less traffic, so they stick out? Or is it because of the quality of noise they pump out, a new dark rasping sound? Hard to say


    The noise regs are tighter than they have ever been. EU rules stipulate 80-86db depending on engine size.

    However, fitting aftermarket exhausts which aren't road legal and, in some cases are even too loud to be used on a track, is very common.

    I have a full titanium Akrapovic race system on my Fireblade SP. It's fucking fire. 106db. LOL.
    Been stopped 3 or 4 times by police while on bikes (I know, must try harder), none of them gave a toss about the aftermarket pipes. One of them, a motorbike cop, even said he preferred them as anything to make car drivers aware that a bike was in the vicinity was a good thing iho.
    The problem, to the extent that there is a problem, is that the noise test portion of the MoT (assuming you're not bribing your way through it) is done at 50% redline. On the SP that's 7,750rpm where the engine is hardly breathing.

    They also don't do the noise test on anything with a CVT so scooters never get checked and can be as loud as an Su-27 in full AB and still pass.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,965
    Pulpstar said:

    Will Starmer keep his deposit in Amersham ?

    Depends what you think about the value of big name endorsements.

    https://twitter.com/natasapantelic5/status/1398342049368268805?s=21
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337

    i got a bet on Labour at 3/1 straight after the locals and happy with that. I think the big event before Batley and Spen will be the 21st June deadline for ending all covid restrictions. If Johnson does not do this he will either be viewed as having being dishonest with the people or too weak to challenge the covid obsessives . This is the sort of thing that will not go down well with the ordinary folk of Yorkshire who like plain speaking and keeping to ones word

    I can’t help feeling that you are absolutely wrong. 21 June is a date for young people, who of course are notoriously keen voters, particularly in by-elections. The elderly have had their freedoms and will be happy to go on holiday while keeping the youth of today locked up. I can’t help feeling they they don’t care and inter-generational solidarity is a wholly one way street.

    Do you really think that the keenest voters care about nightclubs?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "EXCLUSIVE: COVID-19 'has no credible natural ancestor' and was created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with 'retro-engineering' to make it seem like it naturally arose from bats, explosive new study claims
    An explosive new study claims researchers found 'unique fingerprints' in COVID-19 samples that they say could only have arisen from manipulation in a laboratory"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html

    I saw that. I can’t work out if the scientists are cranks or legit

    “St George’s University London”?

    If legit, wow

    Also see this thread, an analysis of opinions on the lab leak. Conclusion: a few bone heads say “0% chance it came from the lab” - ie people with tiny minds who made up those minds on day one

    Yet the people with the most expertise range from 50-90% sure it came from the lab

    ‘Nate silver (@NateSilver538) did an informal poll soliciting people to hazard a guess at the percent chance SARS2 pandemic arose as a result of a lab leak. I decided to plot the submissions so far. I upsized and colored green responses coming from PhDs w/ relevant expertise.’

    https://twitter.com/scotub/status/1398367391546064899?s=21
    Oh, St George's, UoL, does exist all right - thoigh not in quite the orthography quoted: https://www.sgul.ac.uk/

    And a person of about the right name can be found.

    But what concerns me is that I can't find that paper in the QRB Discovery web page, whether as published or accepted. I May be doing something wrong, but the two authors did publish something before (on a candidate vaccine):

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/qrb-discovery/article/biovacc19-a-candidate-vaccine-for-covid19-sarscov2-developed-from-analysis-of-its-general-method-of-action-for-infectivity/DBBC0FA6E3763B0067CAAD8F3363E527
    I don't suppose it is true as it's from the Mail but:


    "They said they tried to publish their findings but were rejected by major scientific journals which were at the time resolute that the virus jumped naturally from bats or other animals to humans."

    Now, about science being an impartial and objective search for truth........
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    ....Meanwhile we've got a lying incompetent freeloader for our prime minister but we don't care!

    Many of us thought the country would go down the toilet after Brexit. Few realised it would happen so quickly

    Maybe his opponents should have put up a credible alternative at the last election then - rather than an enabler of racism who wanted to overturn the result of a referendum?
    I'm beginning to question whether Labour made a mistake choosing the quiet forensic type for leader. I wonder if they gave enough thought to their opponent.

    If the brief had been to better an unscrupulous amoral chisseler rather than a simple incompetent I they'd have gone for a brawler.

    Forget the forensics go for the groin. I'm thinking Jess Phillips or Andy Burnham.
    Surely, ‘go for the Johnson?’
    Has Johnson ever come up a woman whom he couldn't charm, apart from Frau Dr von der Leyen?
    And his encounter with her didn't end well. Imagine him faced with a more combative, better informed, woman such as Jess Phillips. He'd be back to arguing with Nanny!
    Is Jess Phillips really well informed? She has lots of opinions and expresses them loudly but she doesn’t seem very different to the sort of man, and there are plenty of them in politics, who do that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited May 2021

    i got a bet on Labour at 3/1 straight after the locals and happy with that. I think the big event before Batley and Spen will be the 21st June deadline for ending all covid restrictions. If Johnson does not do this he will either be viewed as having being dishonest with the people or too weak to challenge the covid obsessives . This is the sort of thing that will not go down well with the ordinary folk of Yorkshire who like plain speaking and keeping to ones word

    I can’t help feeling that you are absolutely wrong. 21 June is a date for young people, who of course are notoriously keen voters, particularly in by-elections. The elderly have had their freedoms and will be happy to go on holiday while keeping the youth of today locked up. I can’t help feeling they they don’t care and inter-generational solidarity is a wholly one way street.

    Do you really think that the keenest voters care about nightclubs?
    They care about big concerts and theatres and foreign travel.

    If it is made clear we will not fully reopen on 21st June expect ReformUK to take a significant vote in both Chesham and Amersham and Batley and Spen (though most likely the government will open up everything except full capacity at the biggest indoor venues until most have had their 2nd jab and travel to red list countries which will remain banned which they could get away with without too much Tory leakage to Reform UK)
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    i got a bet on Labour at 3/1 straight after the locals and happy with that. I think the big event before Batley and Spen will be the 21st June deadline for ending all covid restrictions. If Johnson does not do this he will either be viewed as having being dishonest with the people or too weak to challenge the covid obsessives . This is the sort of thing that will not go down well with the ordinary folk of Yorkshire who like plain speaking and keeping to ones word

    I don't think anyone is going to give much of a fuck one way or the other about June 21. People are already just pleasing themselves and doing whatever they want.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Dura_Ace said:

    i got a bet on Labour at 3/1 straight after the locals and happy with that. I think the big event before Batley and Spen will be the 21st June deadline for ending all covid restrictions. If Johnson does not do this he will either be viewed as having being dishonest with the people or too weak to challenge the covid obsessives . This is the sort of thing that will not go down well with the ordinary folk of Yorkshire who like plain speaking and keeping to ones word

    I don't think anyone is going to give much of a fuck one way or the other about June 21. People are already just pleasing themselves and doing whatever they want.

    Restaurants, theatres, nightclubs and other businesses with half their seats removed at the moment, they care very much about June 21st.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    HYUFD said:

    i got a bet on Labour at 3/1 straight after the locals and happy with that. I think the big event before Batley and Spen will be the 21st June deadline for ending all covid restrictions. If Johnson does not do this he will either be viewed as having being dishonest with the people or too weak to challenge the covid obsessives . This is the sort of thing that will not go down well with the ordinary folk of Yorkshire who like plain speaking and keeping to ones word

    I can’t help feeling that you are absolutely wrong. 21 June is a date for young people, who of course are notoriously keen voters, particularly in by-elections. The elderly have had their freedoms and will be happy to go on holiday while keeping the youth of today locked up. I can’t help feeling they they don’t care and inter-generational solidarity is a wholly one way street.

    Do you really think that the keenest voters care about nightclubs?
    They care about big concerts and theatres and foreign travel.

    If it is made clear we will not fully reopen on 21st June expect ReformUK to take a significant vote in both Chesham and Amersham and Batley and Spen (though most likely the government will open up everything except full capacity at the biggest indoor venues until most have had their 2nd jab and travel to red list countries which will remain banned which they could get away with without too much Tory leakage to Reform UK)
    This is regularly asserted but rarely evidenced.
    Who can say not fully opening on June 21st won't actually be popular?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited May 2021
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    i got a bet on Labour at 3/1 straight after the locals and happy with that. I think the big event before Batley and Spen will be the 21st June deadline for ending all covid restrictions. If Johnson does not do this he will either be viewed as having being dishonest with the people or too weak to challenge the covid obsessives . This is the sort of thing that will not go down well with the ordinary folk of Yorkshire who like plain speaking and keeping to ones word

    I can’t help feeling that you are absolutely wrong. 21 June is a date for young people, who of course are notoriously keen voters, particularly in by-elections. The elderly have had their freedoms and will be happy to go on holiday while keeping the youth of today locked up. I can’t help feeling they they don’t care and inter-generational solidarity is a wholly one way street.

    Do you really think that the keenest voters care about nightclubs?
    They care about big concerts and theatres and foreign travel.

    If it is made clear we will not fully reopen on 21st June expect ReformUK to take a significant vote in both Chesham and Amersham and Batley and Spen (though most likely the government will open up everything except full capacity at the biggest indoor venues until most have had their 2nd jab and travel to red list countries which will remain banned which they could get away with without too much Tory leakage to Reform UK)
    This is regularly asserted but rarely evidenced.
    Who can say not fully opening on June 21st won't actually be popular?
    It would be devastating for the hospitality and travel industries certainly, even if more popular with those working at home.

    The double vaccinated retired will also now be more pro reopening than they were before they had been jabbed
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:


    Serious question tho, are they getting louder? Or is it because I’m older, or is it because streets are quieter because quieter cars and less traffic, so they stick out? Or is it because of the quality of noise they pump out, a new dark rasping sound? Hard to say


    The noise regs are tighter than they have ever been. EU rules stipulate 80-86db depending on engine size.

    However, fitting aftermarket exhausts which aren't road legal and, in some cases are even too loud to be used on a track, is very common.

    I have a full titanium Akrapovic race system on my Fireblade SP. It's fucking fire. 106db. LOL.
    Been stopped 3 or 4 times by police while on bikes (I know, must try harder), none of them gave a toss about the aftermarket pipes. One of them, a motorbike cop, even said he preferred them as anything to make car drivers aware that a bike was in the vicinity was a good thing iho.
    The problem, to the extent that there is a problem, is that the noise test portion of the MoT (assuming you're not bribing your way through it) is done at 50% redline. On the SP that's 7,750rpm where the engine is hardly breathing.

    They also don't do the noise test on anything with a CVT so scooters never get checked and can be as loud as an Su-27 in full AB and still pass.
    It’s a problem that will solve itself as internal combustion bikes are phased out, like cars


    ‘MOTORCYCLES
    Survey: 31% of UK motorcyclists would quit riding if forced to go electric’


    https://newatlas.com/motorcycles/uk-electric-motorcycle-survey/

    Awww, bless them

    Soon, Dura, you will be happily purring along outside your bungalow in Hove on your brand new Electrapedalo 398 with its Tiny Penis Rubber Duck Hello Kitty Oopsy-Muffler 55X, on your way to Lidl

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    i got a bet on Labour at 3/1 straight after the locals and happy with that. I think the big event before Batley and Spen will be the 21st June deadline for ending all covid restrictions. If Johnson does not do this he will either be viewed as having being dishonest with the people or too weak to challenge the covid obsessives . This is the sort of thing that will not go down well with the ordinary folk of Yorkshire who like plain speaking and keeping to ones word

    I can’t help feeling that you are absolutely wrong. 21 June is a date for young people, who of course are notoriously keen voters, particularly in by-elections. The elderly have had their freedoms and will be happy to go on holiday while keeping the youth of today locked up. I can’t help feeling they they don’t care and inter-generational solidarity is a wholly one way street.

    Do you really think that the keenest voters care about nightclubs?
    They care about big concerts and theatres and foreign travel.

    If it is made clear we will not fully reopen on 21st June expect ReformUK to take a significant vote in both Chesham and Amersham and Batley and Spen (though most likely the government will open up everything except full capacity at the biggest indoor venues until most have had their 2nd jab and travel to red list countries which will remain banned which they could get away with without too much Tory leakage to Reform UK)
    This is regularly asserted but rarely evidenced.
    Who can say not fully opening on June 21st won't actually be popular?
    It would be devastating for the hospitality and travel industries certainly, even if more popular with those working at home.

    The double vaccinated retired will also now be more pro reopening than they were before they had been jabbed
    Indeed. All I am saying is that lockdown and restrictions have proved remarkably palatable. I don't see a huge number of voters deserting the Tories if the date is pushed back.
    Particularly if cases are rising.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "EXCLUSIVE: COVID-19 'has no credible natural ancestor' and was created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with 'retro-engineering' to make it seem like it naturally arose from bats, explosive new study claims
    An explosive new study claims researchers found 'unique fingerprints' in COVID-19 samples that they say could only have arisen from manipulation in a laboratory"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html

    I saw that. I can’t work out if the scientists are cranks or legit

    “St George’s University London”?

    If legit, wow

    Also see this thread, an analysis of opinions on the lab leak. Conclusion: a few bone heads say “0% chance it came from the lab” - ie people with tiny minds who made up those minds on day one

    Yet the people with the most expertise range from 50-90% sure it came from the lab

    ‘Nate silver (@NateSilver538) did an informal poll soliciting people to hazard a guess at the percent chance SARS2 pandemic arose as a result of a lab leak. I decided to plot the submissions so far. I upsized and colored green responses coming from PhDs w/ relevant expertise.’

    https://twitter.com/scotub/status/1398367391546064899?s=21
    Oh, St George's, UoL, does exist all right - thoigh not in quite the orthography quoted: https://www.sgul.ac.uk/

    And a person of about the right name can be found.

    But what concerns me is that I can't find that paper in the QRB Discovery web page, whether as published or accepted. I May be doing something wrong, but the two authors did publish something before (on a candidate vaccine):

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/qrb-discovery/article/biovacc19-a-candidate-vaccine-for-covid19-sarscov2-developed-from-analysis-of-its-general-method-of-action-for-infectivity/DBBC0FA6E3763B0067CAAD8F3363E527
    I don't suppose it is true as it's from the Mail but:


    "They said they tried to publish their findings but were rejected by major scientific journals which were at the time resolute that the virus jumped naturally from bats or other animals to humans."

    Now, about science being an impartial and objective search for truth........
    That’s one bit I can certainly believe. The ex NYT health editor had to publish his seminal lab leak essay in the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, because more obvious medical journals were scared or just ideologically opposed. The Lancet is arguably part of a conspiracy, publishing that outrageous letter in March 2020, trying to squash the lab leak hypothesis, without revealing that the letter’s organiser and writer, Peter Daszak, has spent a decade working on ‘gain of function’ bat coronavirus experiments, with the Wuhan Institute of Virology,
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Leon said:



    It’s a problem that will solve itself as internal combustion bikes are phased out, like cars


    ‘MOTORCYCLES
    Survey: 31% of UK motorcyclists would quit riding if forced to go electric’


    https://newatlas.com/motorcycles/uk-electric-motorcycle-survey/

    Awww, bless them

    Soon, Dura, you will be happily purring along outside your bungalow in Hove on your brand new Electrapedalo 398 with its Tiny Penis Rubber Duck Hello Kitty Oopsy-Muffler 55X, on your way to Lidl

    I'd like an Energica RS but they are ludicrously expensive.


  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Checks, nope it is not April 1st

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9632115/TV-reporter-mistakenly-announces-death-playwright-William-Shakespeare.html

    Viewers were left completely baffled on Thursday evening when Noelia Novillo, a newsreader on Canal 26, reported that William Shakespeare, 'one of the most important writers in the English language', died this month.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    ‘Even The Guardian has finally published a balanced piece on the lab leak hypothesis that it has dismissed as conspiracy theory for more than a year’

    https://twitter.com/ianbirrell/status/1398616778490662919?s=21

    The Guardian was fiercely mocking the lab leak hypothesis up to about 3 days ago. It really is an astonishing volte face
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "EXCLUSIVE: COVID-19 'has no credible natural ancestor' and was created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with 'retro-engineering' to make it seem like it naturally arose from bats, explosive new study claims
    An explosive new study claims researchers found 'unique fingerprints' in COVID-19 samples that they say could only have arisen from manipulation in a laboratory"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html

    I saw that. I can’t work out if the scientists are cranks or legit

    “St George’s University London”?

    If legit, wow

    Also see this thread, an analysis of opinions on the lab leak. Conclusion: a few bone heads say “0% chance it came from the lab” - ie people with tiny minds who made up those minds on day one

    Yet the people with the most expertise range from 50-90% sure it came from the lab

    ‘Nate silver (@NateSilver538) did an informal poll soliciting people to hazard a guess at the percent chance SARS2 pandemic arose as a result of a lab leak. I decided to plot the submissions so far. I upsized and colored green responses coming from PhDs w/ relevant expertise.’

    https://twitter.com/scotub/status/1398367391546064899?s=21
    Oh, St George's, UoL, does exist all right - thoigh not in quite the orthography quoted: https://www.sgul.ac.uk/

    And a person of about the right name can be found.

    But what concerns me is that I can't find that paper in the QRB Discovery web page, whether as published or accepted. I May be doing something wrong, but the two authors did publish something before (on a candidate vaccine):

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/qrb-discovery/article/biovacc19-a-candidate-vaccine-for-covid19-sarscov2-developed-from-analysis-of-its-general-method-of-action-for-infectivity/DBBC0FA6E3763B0067CAAD8F3363E527
    I don't suppose it is true as it's from the Mail but:


    "They said they tried to publish their findings but were rejected by major scientific journals which were at the time resolute that the virus jumped naturally from bats or other animals to humans."

    Now, about science being an impartial and objective search for truth........
    That’s one bit I can certainly believe. The ex NYT health editor had to publish his seminal lab leak essay in the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, because more obvious medical journals were scared or just ideologically opposed. The Lancet is arguably part of a conspiracy, publishing that outrageous letter in March 2020, trying to squash the lab leak hypothesis, without revealing that the letter’s organiser and writer, Peter Daszak, has spent a decade working on ‘gain of function’ bat coronavirus experiments, with the Wuhan Institute of Virology,
    The irony there, Leon, is if you want to get the national intelligence, security and arms control community's attention on this sort of subject, the Bulletin is probably a more effective publication than any of Cell, Nature, Lancet, BMJ or NEJM (though maybe not Science).
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Floater said:

    Checks, nope it is not April 1st

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9632115/TV-reporter-mistakenly-announces-death-playwright-William-Shakespeare.html

    Viewers were left completely baffled on Thursday evening when Noelia Novillo, a newsreader on Canal 26, reported that William Shakespeare, 'one of the most important writers in the English language', died this month.

    Whereas William Shakespeare, the first person to receive an approved COVID vaccine, did.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    TimT said:

    Floater said:

    Checks, nope it is not April 1st

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9632115/TV-reporter-mistakenly-announces-death-playwright-William-Shakespeare.html

    Viewers were left completely baffled on Thursday evening when Noelia Novillo, a newsreader on Canal 26, reported that William Shakespeare, 'one of the most important writers in the English language', died this month.

    Whereas William Shakespeare, the first person to receive an approved COVID vaccine, did.
    Quite the mistake eh?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662

    Its interesting how the shooting of Sasha Johnson is still being headlined as "Activist Shooting" and talking all about BLM etc - and not as "Gang Shooting" considering that's what happened.

    We need someone who will tackle drug reform and see to it that these gangs are abolished.

    On the subject of drug reform, another cannabis user showing paranoid delusions:

    https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/ranting-covid-denier-who-stopped-5469173
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,158
    edited May 2021
    TimT said:

    Floater said:

    Checks, nope it is not April 1st

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9632115/TV-reporter-mistakenly-announces-death-playwright-William-Shakespeare.html

    Viewers were left completely baffled on Thursday evening when Noelia Novillo, a newsreader on Canal 26, reported that William Shakespeare, 'one of the most important writers in the English language', died this month.

    Whereas William Shakespeare, the first person to receive an approved COVID vaccine, did.
    He did look extremely similar to the original William Shakespeare, and his daughter said her dad was from Stratford-Upon-Avon.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Floater said:

    TimT said:

    Floater said:

    Checks, nope it is not April 1st

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9632115/TV-reporter-mistakenly-announces-death-playwright-William-Shakespeare.html

    Viewers were left completely baffled on Thursday evening when Noelia Novillo, a newsreader on Canal 26, reported that William Shakespeare, 'one of the most important writers in the English language', died this month.

    Whereas William Shakespeare, the first person to receive an approved COVID vaccine, did.
    Quite the mistake eh?
    Yep.
  • PamelaWPamelaW Posts: 20
    Obviously Batley & Spen will be close and obviously we need one or two constituency polls.

    At this stage I am inclined go think a narrow Con gain. It is even possible that Galloway gets a vote (say around 6%) which turns out to be greater than the Conservative majority over Labour.

    Incidentally I know it is not happening, but is it true Ed Balls was a possible Labour candidate here please? Thanks

    Pamela
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    This man is a miracle worker, he's managed to get a good deal of non NI, non Unionist people to be on Arlene's side. Combined with her more or less telling the DUP to girfuy, her rehabilitation is almost complete.

    https://twitter.com/DoctorChristian/status/1398254510200393740?s=20

    £120,000 for claiming a leading politician was having an affair!

    Boris could could buy up Osborne & Little
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Foxy said:

    Its interesting how the shooting of Sasha Johnson is still being headlined as "Activist Shooting" and talking all about BLM etc - and not as "Gang Shooting" considering that's what happened.

    We need someone who will tackle drug reform and see to it that these gangs are abolished.

    On the subject of drug reform, another cannabis user showing paranoid delusions:

    https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/ranting-covid-denier-who-stopped-5469173
    Which has happened in this country under our current laws.

    Do you think this guy has been getting his drugs from a regulated pharmacist or equivalent as those in favour of reform advocate?

    Or from county line or equivalent gangsters?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Great

    ‘Covid cases growing exponentially’ and government is ‘warned’ against repeating the mistake of acting too late

    - Sky news


  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,158
    edited May 2021
    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/fully-paralysed-terminally-ill-patients-still-facing-inhumane-benefits-process-almost-two-years-after-promised-review

    "Fully Paralysed Terminally Ill Patients Still Face "Inhumane" Benefits Process Almost Two Years After Promised Review

    Ministers are facing demands to urgently publish a review of the "barbaric" benefits programme

    Campaigners, doctors and carers have lashed out at the Department of Work and Pensions over delays to a pledged overhaul to benefits rules for those with a terminal illness.

    Under the current system, only those with six months or less to live are able to have their benefits claims fast-tracked, with others facing reviews every three years even if they have been diagnosed with a terminal illness.

    Speaking to PoliticsHome, Susie Rabin, head of policy and campaigns at the Motor Neurone Disease Association, which launched the #Scrap6Months campaign alongside charity Marie Curie, said urgent action was needed to fix the "really inappropriate" scheme.

    "I do know of carers who have had to fill in those 70 page forms that have come to me and said, this is ridiculous, there is no point where I can just say he is completely paralysed and ventilated and can only move his eyes.

    "In some cases they die a few weeks or a couple of months later because they have been lucky to survive for three years and then are told to make a new claim and re-apply for benefits."

    "The entire process seems geared to punish innocent people. How am I meant to answer whether my wife can prepare a meal for herself? On good days, maybe yes. On bad days she might wander off and set the pan on fire, or leave the gas on without knowing it."

    "Professor Al-Chalabi said he had heard of DWP officials phoning up doctors and health care staff to query their clinical judgement about whether a patient was likely to die within six months.

    Mark Jackson, Marie Curie policy manager for England, said the delay had led to "harrowing tales" of people fighting to get access to benefits in the final months of their lives."
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829
    Leon said:

    Great

    ‘Covid cases growing exponentially’ and government is ‘warned’ against repeating the mistake of acting too late

    - Sky news


    Cases don't matter.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    I would vote for anyone in Batley, or anyone in Britain, or anyone in the bloody world, who passed a law to burn all noisy motorbikes.

    Why are they suddenly so loud? Is it just me getting older and grumpier?

    Grumpy? You? You and Malc are the burning rays of sunshine here.
    Thanks. Chuffed

    Serious question tho, are they getting louder? Or is it because I’m older, or is it because streets are quieter because quieter cars and less traffic, so they stick out? Or is it because of the quality of noise they pump out, a new dark rasping sound? Hard to say

    A quick Google says people have been attacked, even murdered, because of noisy bikes

    https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2021/04/15/father-stabbed-to-death-after-argument-about-motorbike-noise/
    I can believe it. People have been murdered over Avril Lavigne tickets and access to a Wi Fi admin password, so that doesn’t surprise me.
    Most loud motorbikes have been modified to make them noisier, and are therefore uninsured. After all, if you were an insurer you'd think twice about a customer who proclaims their intention to ride like an idiot. The same is true of loud cars. That's why driving convictions often include an additional charge of 'without insurance': policies are generally void if the vehicle has been 'modified'.
    I don't really care about noise, but on motorways it strikes me that 99% of bikers are going at way over the 70 limit. Cars regularly do 75-80, bu the bikes just zoom past them. It's not surprising that the accident rate is far higher.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Great

    ‘Covid cases growing exponentially’ and government is ‘warned’ against repeating the mistake of acting too late

    - Sky news


    Cases don't matter.
    That seems to be the very nub of the issue.

    I hope you’re right.

    But what if you’re not?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526
    PamelaW said:

    Obviously Batley & Spen will be close and obviously we need one or two constituency polls.

    At this stage I am inclined go think a narrow Con gain. It is even possible that Galloway gets a vote (say around 6%) which turns out to be greater than the Conservative majority over Labour.

    Incidentally I know it is not happening, but is it true Ed Balls was a possible Labour candidate here please? Thanks

    Pamela

    Don't think so (except in the sense that anyone is possible) - certainly he didn't apply. He's not totally ruled out ever coming back, but is quite enjoying the freedom to make TV programmes on diverse subjects and generally have fun. i agree it feels like a narrow Tory win.

    Anyway, welcome to the site!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Great

    ‘Covid cases growing exponentially’ and government is ‘warned’ against repeating the mistake of acting too late

    - Sky news


    Cases don't matter.
    Government earned by whom? Independent sage? Sky have form in treating that lot of troublemaking Marxists as a credible voice whose influence matters.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    EU + UK pass 300,000,000 doses. EU alone 240,000,000

    https://www.politico.eu/coronavirus-in-europe/


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    ping said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Great

    ‘Covid cases growing exponentially’ and government is ‘warned’ against repeating the mistake of acting too late

    - Sky news


    Cases don't matter.
    That seems to be the very nub of the issue.

    I hope you’re right.

    But what if you’re not?
    What matters is that hospitals don’t get overrun.

    The old and vulnerable groups have now been vaccinated, so the theory is that a rise in cases no longer necessarily leads to a rise in hospital admissions.
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337
    edited May 2021
    Leon said:

    Great

    ‘Covid cases growing exponentially’ and government is ‘warned’ against repeating the mistake of acting too late

    - Sky news


    It would be helpful if you could post who is doing the “warning”. Because if it is the Fake Sage, they can get in the bin.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Great

    ‘Covid cases growing exponentially’ and government is ‘warned’ against repeating the mistake of acting too late

    - Sky news


    Cases don't matter.
    No doubt - to anyone too innumerate to understand the difference between 60% and 100%!
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,158
    edited May 2021
    Hospitalisations don't seem to be going up - so far.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Chris said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Great

    ‘Covid cases growing exponentially’ and government is ‘warned’ against repeating the mistake of acting too late

    - Sky news


    Cases don't matter.
    No doubt - to anyone too innumerate to understand the difference between 60% and 100%!
    A good point - to someone too illogical to distinguish a qualitative from a quantitative statement.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    Great

    ‘Covid cases growing exponentially’ and government is ‘warned’ against repeating the mistake of acting too late

    - Sky news


    It would be helpful if you could post who is doing the “warning”. Because if it is the Fake Sage, they can get in the bin.
    Yes annoying, sorry

    It’s Tim Gowers the Cambridge maths prof. But Sky News doesn’t let me link. Dunno why
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Chris said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Great

    ‘Covid cases growing exponentially’ and government is ‘warned’ against repeating the mistake of acting too late

    - Sky news


    Cases don't matter.
    No doubt - to anyone too innumerate to understand the difference between 60% and 100%!
    How about 99%?

    99% of people who died were in Groups 1 to 9.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Smoking gun?


    ‘Scientists in the Chinese military discussed weaponizing SARS coronaviruses in a document obtained by the United States Government where they discussed their ideas about using biological weapons to win a third world war.

    “The document, written by People’s Liberation Army scientists and senior Chinese public health officials in 2015, was obtained by the US State Department as it conducted an investigation into the origins of COVID-19,” The Weekend Australian reported exclusively. “The paper describes SARS ­coronaviruses as heralding a ‘new era of genetic weapons’ and says they can be ‘artificially manipulated into an emerging human ­disease virus, then weaponized and unleashed in a way never seen before.’”’

    https://twitter.com/realdailywire/status/1390843286554693632?s=21

    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/subscribe/news/1/

    The Australian is not a fringe journal full of cranks
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829
    Chris said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Great

    ‘Covid cases growing exponentially’ and government is ‘warned’ against repeating the mistake of acting too late

    - Sky news


    Cases don't matter.
    No doubt - to anyone too innumerate to understand the difference between 60% and 100%!
    Oh look the smartest guy in the room is back! The font of all worldly knowledge, all must bow down and listen.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Chris said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Great

    ‘Covid cases growing exponentially’ and government is ‘warned’ against repeating the mistake of acting too late

    - Sky news


    Cases don't matter.
    No doubt - to anyone too innumerate to understand the difference between 60% and 100%!
    Although Cambridge is not what it was, I’m shocked to hear that it’s hired a professor with that level of innumeracy in its maths faculty.

    Economics, now, that would be different.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Great

    ‘Covid cases growing exponentially’ and government is ‘warned’ against repeating the mistake of acting too late

    - Sky news


    It would be helpful if you could post who is doing the “warning”. Because if it is the Fake Sage, they can get in the bin.
    Yes annoying, sorry

    It’s Tim Gowers the Cambridge maths prof. But Sky News doesn’t let me link. Dunno why
    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-cases-growing-exponentially-as-professor-warns-government-against-repeating-mistake-of-acting-too-late-12319957
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    Pulpstar said:

    Will Starmer keep his deposit in Amersham ?

    Depends what you think about the value of big name endorsements.

    https://twitter.com/natasapantelic5/status/1398342049368268805?s=21
    His silver fox, pub rocker look has gone then. Shame.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    A plausible candidate for the USS Omaha UFO sightings. Highly advanced secret US drones programmed to swarm. May be possible to launch from subs. Also linked to electronic warfare which can project ‘phantom’ aircraft


    ‘#UAP @BretWeinstein @HeatherEHeying the DOD videos behind the recent UFO discussion show tests of a Navy program called NEMESIS.’

    https://twitter.com/aaronnagy9/status/1396203841117474817?s=21

    Definitely a candidate.

    Couple of problems tho. Does not explain any of the earlier sightings - this tech is so new (and may not even exist yet)

    Leaves open the big question: how can America be spooked by its own weaponry? And why are the political elite being fooled? - or is it some grand conspiracy to distract and confuse the Chinese?

    To add to the piquant mix, the tweeter personally believes alien UAPs exist - just that these aren’t them. Hah
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Great

    ‘Covid cases growing exponentially’ and government is ‘warned’ against repeating the mistake of acting too late

    - Sky news


    It would be helpful if you could post who is doing the “warning”. Because if it is the Fake Sage, they can get in the bin.
    Yes annoying, sorry

    It’s Tim Gowers the Cambridge maths prof. But Sky News doesn’t let me link. Dunno why
    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-cases-growing-exponentially-as-professor-warns-government-against-repeating-mistake-of-acting-too-late-12319957
    I do wonder whether this sort of reporting generates a feeling of “what’s the point in being vaccinated, we’ll never be released because somebody will be screaming variants”. The screamers seem to have a right to permanent media time.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    Great

    ‘Covid cases growing exponentially’ and government is ‘warned’ against repeating the mistake of acting too late

    - Sky news


    Is that someone from Cosplay SAGE doing the warning?
This discussion has been closed.