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Now we have the build-up to the Cummings appearance before Commons Health and Science Committee – po

2

Comments

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    Hello everybody. Not really bright and sunny, but dry and all of a sudden there's no rain in the forecast.

    All froth and bubble from Mr C is my expectation.

    At inordinate length, larded with long words he doesn’t quite understand.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    FPT

    Yet again we are back to hospitalisations in the young! Your daily reminder that this data is not stratified by underlying health conditions, and thus is largely meaningless given those with UHC have already been jabbed!

    I bore even myself making this point.

    The ICNARC data (for ICU admissions) is explicitly split by eligibility for vaccine group - for those in Groups 1-4, Groups 5-9, and outside of any vulnerability group (Phase 2)

    Those in Phase 2 have not already been jabbed.
    Sure but the point I’m making is that the 50,000 hospitalisations you quotes will include those with UHC. I have yet to find a decent source that shows hospitalisations stratified by both age and UHC for granular age cohorts. Deaths are so stratified under NHS data, but I’ve not seen anything that shows hospitalisations in that way.
    - The most constrained part of healthcare is ICU capacity
    - The point of looking at UHCs against healthcare demand under covid is to judge whether the jabbing campaign has removed the chance of healthcare saturation
    - The ICNARC figures give ICU demand under covid specifically against eligibility for the various phases of jab rollout.

    Accordingly, that data cuts straight to what we need to judge that. The level of demand is reduced considerably but not at all negligible. It’s a little over two doublings and below three doublings.
    We can then infer the continued reduction in demand as Phase 2 continues.

    We omit the changing of categories as a chunk of those in Phase 2 with “mild” cases end up moving from “No UHCs” to “Covid-acquired UHC”, because that’s a far woollier and harder thing to judge. Again, it’s not negligible, but the impact on healthcare will be chronic rather than acute as the vax programme continues; those in Phase 2 are actively getting jabbed.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Stocky said:

    dixiedean said:

    pm215 said:

    FPT

    I'm already booked in for 26 June for my second, so seems safe to assume that almost all over 40s will also already be done (or at least eligible to be done) before July starts. So if by July there's no significant first doses left and there's only under-40s left to second dose (and some like myself will already be done) then there's going to really be no supply constraints.

    I'm 43 and my 2nd jab isn't scheduled until 21st July. That's just under 12 weeks after my first, which I got pretty much as soon as slots opened up for my age group. So I reckon unless they bring the gap between jabs in for 40+ as they have 50+ (quite possible I guess?) there will be a lot of over-40s like me who got jab 1 in late April/early May and so are due for jab 2 in July.
    You can reschedule for 8 weeks after the first if you want now online.

    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination/
    Thanks. I actually didn't know that. Was under the impression I had to wait to be contacted. Will look into it tomorrow. Cheers!
    I only knew because I saw @Anabobazina tell someone else!
    And I only found out by accident because I had to move my original appointment due to a diary clash!
    @Anabobazina Yes, I knew about this but my wife hasn't brought forward her 2nd jab because the system makes you cancel the original appointment before booking a new one afresh - meaning that there is a risk that there are no earlier appoints available and you have lost your original appointment date, so could in theory end up in a worse position than when you started.

    So we haven't taken the risk.
    Take it. The earliest appointment will be for tomorrow.

    I did it after similar misgivings and they offered me one the following day. As it turned out because of my diary I went in that day and they fitted me in.

    It's a novel example of the system actually being on your side and wanting to help.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860

    Hello everybody. Not really bright and sunny, but dry and all of a sudden there's no rain in the forecast.

    All froth and bubble from Mr C is my expectation.

    A beautiful morning, not a cloud in the sky, light winds, blue sea, and over 10C already. Hard to believe that LeadronicT will be right in forecasting snow for tomorrow.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    dixiedean said:

    pm215 said:

    FPT

    I'm already booked in for 26 June for my second, so seems safe to assume that almost all over 40s will also already be done (or at least eligible to be done) before July starts. So if by July there's no significant first doses left and there's only under-40s left to second dose (and some like myself will already be done) then there's going to really be no supply constraints.

    I'm 43 and my 2nd jab isn't scheduled until 21st July. That's just under 12 weeks after my first, which I got pretty much as soon as slots opened up for my age group. So I reckon unless they bring the gap between jabs in for 40+ as they have 50+ (quite possible I guess?) there will be a lot of over-40s like me who got jab 1 in late April/early May and so are due for jab 2 in July.
    You can reschedule for 8 weeks after the first if you want now online.

    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination/
    Thanks. I actually didn't know that. Was under the impression I had to wait to be contacted. Will look into it tomorrow. Cheers!
    I only knew because I saw @Anabobazina tell someone else!
    And I only found out by accident because I had to move my original appointment due to a diary clash!
    @Anabobazina Yes, I knew about this but my wife hasn't brought forward her 2nd jab because the system makes you cancel the original appointment before booking a new one afresh - meaning that there is a risk that there are no earlier appoints available and you have lost your original appointment date, so could in theory end up in a worse position than when you started.

    So we haven't taken the risk.
    Take it. The earliest appointment will be for tomorrow.

    I did it after similar misgivings and they offered me one the following day. As it turned out because of my diary I went in that day and they fitted me in.

    It's a novel example of the system actually being on your side and wanting to help.
    Sticky’s scenario happened to me, in that I went back in to see what alternative dates were available, couldn’t see any I wanted and came out thinking i hadn’t changed anything, then got an email cancelling my second appointment. So I had to log back in again and choose from those available. It only meant I had to turn up in the evening, rather than earlier as I originally wanted, and in the event being almost last in meant there was no queue. But there is a risk, nevertheless, and it is odd that the mere act of logging in again cancels your appointment automatically.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900

    All fart and no follow through from Dom tomorrow is my prediction.

    For someone who was telling people he had a galaxy brain and that he was more powerful than the PM it turns out Dom wasn't that clever or powerful.

    He's a pound shop Rasputin.

    I am sure the media will lap up all his claims. Lots of bad headlines of inappropriate things Boris has said and done.
    And the organs that didn't believe a word he said a year ago will believe every single one today.....
    If he provides whistleblower evidence? Yes. If it's just him saying "I saw this"? No
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958

    All fart and no follow through from Dom tomorrow is my prediction.

    For someone who was telling people he had a galaxy brain and that he was more powerful than the PM it turns out Dom wasn't that clever or powerful.

    He's a pound shop Rasputin.

    Grigori Yefimovich took a lot of killing, and the royal family who his assassins were trying to protect were up against the wall (or down the basement to be precise) 17 months later.

    Just sayin'..
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:
    I know Judgemeadow. Best state school in Leicester in results terms.

    Nice to see kids taking an interest in politics.
    Yes, and defying the modern English trend against religious belief. How quaint
    Well, some people are stunningly fucking naive.

    We do not expect to see placard waving mobs howling Allahu Akbar stomping through schools in this country. Nothing good will come of it.
    That’s a hostile environment for white Christian I guess
    0.1% Jewish population at the last census.

    http://evington.localstats.co.uk/census-demographics/england/east-midlands/leicester/evington
    Leicester has a small Jewish community, mostly in Stoneygate on the border with Evington.

    I know Judgemeadow school, indeed used to do a yoga class there, it is a good school and a number of my colleagues have had children there. I would have been happy for Fox Jr to go there, though he went to the next door Beauchamp College, which also had a small student protest.

    I think both schools behaved quite appropriately in response, permitting peaceful protest in break time, and enabling discussion of other perspectives.

    https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/pupils-leicester-secondary-school-stand-5456485?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Playbook scoop

    WhatsApp messages show that — while he was in charge of No. 10 in March 2020 — Dominic Cummings privately ordered senior Cabinet ministers to deny that herd immunity was ever government policy


    https://politi.co/3svJcDk https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1397439859397210112/photo/1
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215
    IanB2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    dixiedean said:

    pm215 said:

    FPT

    I'm already booked in for 26 June for my second, so seems safe to assume that almost all over 40s will also already be done (or at least eligible to be done) before July starts. So if by July there's no significant first doses left and there's only under-40s left to second dose (and some like myself will already be done) then there's going to really be no supply constraints.

    I'm 43 and my 2nd jab isn't scheduled until 21st July. That's just under 12 weeks after my first, which I got pretty much as soon as slots opened up for my age group. So I reckon unless they bring the gap between jabs in for 40+ as they have 50+ (quite possible I guess?) there will be a lot of over-40s like me who got jab 1 in late April/early May and so are due for jab 2 in July.
    You can reschedule for 8 weeks after the first if you want now online.

    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination/
    Thanks. I actually didn't know that. Was under the impression I had to wait to be contacted. Will look into it tomorrow. Cheers!
    I only knew because I saw @Anabobazina tell someone else!
    And I only found out by accident because I had to move my original appointment due to a diary clash!
    @Anabobazina Yes, I knew about this but my wife hasn't brought forward her 2nd jab because the system makes you cancel the original appointment before booking a new one afresh - meaning that there is a risk that there are no earlier appoints available and you have lost your original appointment date, so could in theory end up in a worse position than when you started.

    So we haven't taken the risk.
    Take it. The earliest appointment will be for tomorrow.

    I did it after similar misgivings and they offered me one the following day. As it turned out because of my diary I went in that day and they fitted me in.

    It's a novel example of the system actually being on your side and wanting to help.
    Sticky’s scenario happened to me, in that I went back in to see what alternative dates were available, couldn’t see any I wanted and came out thinking i hadn’t changed anything, then got an email cancelling my second appointment. So I had to log back in again and choose from those available. It only meant I had to turn up in the evening, rather than earlier as I originally wanted, and in the event being almost last in meant there was no queue. But there is a risk, nevertheless, and it is odd that the mere act of logging in again cancels your appointment automatically.
    Not sure how you managed that. I didn't think you could go in deep enough to see what is available without pressing the cancel existing button.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:
    I know Judgemeadow. Best state school in Leicester in results terms.

    Nice to see kids taking an interest in politics.
    Yes, and defying the modern English trend against religious belief. How quaint
    Well, some people are stunningly fucking naive.

    We do not expect to see placard waving mobs howling Allahu Akbar stomping through schools in this country. Nothing good will come of it.
    That’s a hostile environment for white Christian I guess
    0.1% Jewish population at the last census.

    http://evington.localstats.co.uk/census-demographics/england/east-midlands/leicester/evington
    Leicester has a small Jewish community, mostly in Stoneygate on the border with Evington.

    I know Judgemeadow school, indeed used to do a yoga class there, it is a good school and a number of my colleagues have had children there. I would have been happy for Fox Jr to go there, though he went to the next door Beauchamp College, which also had a small student protest.

    I think both schools behaved quite appropriately in response, permitting peaceful protest in break time, and enabling discussion of other perspectives.

    https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/pupils-leicester-secondary-school-stand-5456485?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
    One way of putting it.

    I'm sure the Easter celebrations look very similar.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Ladies & Gentlemen, I give you Scotland's "Solicitor of the Year, 2018 Lawyer of the Year 2017 and Former Rector University Glasgow ."

    Dear @pritipatel you have no jurisdiction in Scotland, keep your dawn raids to yourself, we intend to demolish your barbaric policies & look forward to welcoming you soon

    https://twitter.com/AamerAnwar/status/1396912671749033995?s=20
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    dixiedean said:

    pm215 said:

    FPT

    I'm already booked in for 26 June for my second, so seems safe to assume that almost all over 40s will also already be done (or at least eligible to be done) before July starts. So if by July there's no significant first doses left and there's only under-40s left to second dose (and some like myself will already be done) then there's going to really be no supply constraints.

    I'm 43 and my 2nd jab isn't scheduled until 21st July. That's just under 12 weeks after my first, which I got pretty much as soon as slots opened up for my age group. So I reckon unless they bring the gap between jabs in for 40+ as they have 50+ (quite possible I guess?) there will be a lot of over-40s like me who got jab 1 in late April/early May and so are due for jab 2 in July.
    You can reschedule for 8 weeks after the first if you want now online.

    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination/
    Thanks. I actually didn't know that. Was under the impression I had to wait to be contacted. Will look into it tomorrow. Cheers!
    I only knew because I saw @Anabobazina tell someone else!
    And I only found out by accident because I had to move my original appointment due to a diary clash!
    @Anabobazina Yes, I knew about this but my wife hasn't brought forward her 2nd jab because the system makes you cancel the original appointment before booking a new one afresh - meaning that there is a risk that there are no earlier appoints available and you have lost your original appointment date, so could in theory end up in a worse position than when you started.

    So we haven't taken the risk.
    Take it. The earliest appointment will be for tomorrow.

    I did it after similar misgivings and they offered me one the following day. As it turned out because of my diary I went in that day and they fitted me in.

    It's a novel example of the system actually being on your side and wanting to help.
    Sticky’s scenario happened to me, in that I went back in to see what alternative dates were available, couldn’t see any I wanted and came out thinking i hadn’t changed anything, then got an email cancelling my second appointment. So I had to log back in again and choose from those available. It only meant I had to turn up in the evening, rather than earlier as I originally wanted, and in the event being almost last in meant there was no queue. But there is a risk, nevertheless, and it is odd that the mere act of logging in again cancels your appointment automatically.
    Not sure how you managed that. I didn't think you could go in deep enough to see what is available without pressing the cancel existing button.
    I had to cancel to rebook my second appointment. The cancellation was confirmed by text or email in seconds. The rebooking was confirmed by text or email about 12 hours later.
    If the centre you are looking at hasn't got a day ir time you like try a different vaccination centre.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:
    I know Judgemeadow. Best state school in Leicester in results terms.

    Nice to see kids taking an interest in politics.
    Yes, and defying the modern English trend against religious belief. How quaint
    Well, some people are stunningly fucking naive.

    We do not expect to see placard waving mobs howling Allahu Akbar stomping through schools in this country. Nothing good will come of it.
    That’s a hostile environment for white Christian I guess
    0.1% Jewish population at the last census.

    http://evington.localstats.co.uk/census-demographics/england/east-midlands/leicester/evington
    Leicester has a small Jewish community, mostly in Stoneygate on the border with Evington.

    I know Judgemeadow school, indeed used to do a yoga class there, it is a good school and a number of my colleagues have had children there. I would have been happy for Fox Jr to go there, though he went to the next door Beauchamp College, which also had a small student protest.

    I think both schools behaved quite appropriately in response, permitting peaceful protest in break time, and enabling discussion of other perspectives.

    https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/pupils-leicester-secondary-school-stand-5456485?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
    One way of putting it.

    I'm sure the Easter celebrations look very similar.
    Not sure what your point is. A protest in favour of a Free Palestine is not the same as a religious festival.

    Fox Jr did RE, and they covered all religious festivals fairly, including Easter, Passover and Purim, and visited Leicesters Synagogue and Churches. He got an A* at GCSE in it.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215
    Stocky said:

    Batley and Spen... I see Conservatives now on 4/7 and Labour 5/4 (William Hill) its tightened nicely, no value though for any punters with odds like that.

    4/7 v 5/4 gives an book percentage of 108.1%, so poor value with the major trad bookies I agree.

    100.4% book on Back side on exchanges (BF) though. Slightly worse on Lay side.
    Following on from above, I do think that Labour Party is value at 2.54 with BF.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Stocky said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
    I am over the moon. Someone at last is saying enough of this woke Shittery.l
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    Stocky said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
    Could we have clarification on which nation's (singular) heritage is going to be understood and appreciated?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    dixiedean said:

    pm215 said:

    FPT

    I'm already booked in for 26 June for my second, so seems safe to assume that almost all over 40s will also already be done (or at least eligible to be done) before July starts. So if by July there's no significant first doses left and there's only under-40s left to second dose (and some like myself will already be done) then there's going to really be no supply constraints.

    I'm 43 and my 2nd jab isn't scheduled until 21st July. That's just under 12 weeks after my first, which I got pretty much as soon as slots opened up for my age group. So I reckon unless they bring the gap between jabs in for 40+ as they have 50+ (quite possible I guess?) there will be a lot of over-40s like me who got jab 1 in late April/early May and so are due for jab 2 in July.
    You can reschedule for 8 weeks after the first if you want now online.

    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination/
    Thanks. I actually didn't know that. Was under the impression I had to wait to be contacted. Will look into it tomorrow. Cheers!
    I only knew because I saw @Anabobazina tell someone else!
    And I only found out by accident because I had to move my original appointment due to a diary clash!
    @Anabobazina Yes, I knew about this but my wife hasn't brought forward her 2nd jab because the system makes you cancel the original appointment before booking a new one afresh - meaning that there is a risk that there are no earlier appoints available and you have lost your original appointment date, so could in theory end up in a worse position than when you started.

    So we haven't taken the risk.
    Take it. The earliest appointment will be for tomorrow.

    I did it after similar misgivings and they offered me one the following day. As it turned out because of my diary I went in that day and they fitted me in.

    It's a novel example of the system actually being on your side and wanting to help.
    Sticky’s scenario happened to me, in that I went back in to see what alternative dates were available, couldn’t see any I wanted and came out thinking i hadn’t changed anything, then got an email cancelling my second appointment. So I had to log back in again and choose from those available. It only meant I had to turn up in the evening, rather than earlier as I originally wanted, and in the event being almost last in meant there was no queue. But there is a risk, nevertheless, and it is odd that the mere act of logging in again cancels your appointment automatically.
    Not sure how you managed that. I didn't think you could go in deep enough to see what is available without pressing the cancel existing button.
    Maybe it did force me to cancel first, and I forgot that bit. In any event, I was surprised that you couldn't browse without cancelling.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,715
    Scott_xP said:

    Playbook scoop

    WhatsApp messages show that — while he was in charge of No. 10 in March 2020 — Dominic Cummings privately ordered senior Cabinet ministers to deny that herd immunity was ever government policy


    https://politi.co/3svJcDk https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1397439859397210112/photo/1

    Cummings is the most unreliable witness since Lord Unreliable of Unreliable Island took the witness stand frankly.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    All fart and no follow through from Dom tomorrow is my prediction.

    For someone who was telling people he had a galaxy brain and that he was more powerful than the PM it turns out Dom wasn't that clever or powerful.

    He's a pound shop Rasputin.

    I am sure the media will lap up all his claims. Lots of bad headlines of inappropriate things Boris has said and done.
    And the organs that didn't believe a word he said a year ago will believe every single one today.....
    If he provides whistleblower evidence? Yes. If it's just him saying "I saw this"? No
    Cummings twitter feed is hard going. For a man who scripts pithy short slogans along the lines of "four legs good, two legs bad", he is completely incapable of being concise in anything else.

    He is nowhere near as clever as he thinks he is, so likely to be a damp squib today. I think it unlikely to provoke a popcorn shortage.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860

    Scott_xP said:

    Playbook scoop

    WhatsApp messages show that — while he was in charge of No. 10 in March 2020 — Dominic Cummings privately ordered senior Cabinet ministers to deny that herd immunity was ever government policy


    https://politi.co/3svJcDk https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1397439859397210112/photo/1

    Cummings is the most unreliable witness since Lord Unreliable of Unreliable Island took the witness stand frankly.
    And that Lord at least was frank?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    Stocky said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
    Could we have clarification on which nation's (singular) heritage is going to be understood and appreciated?
    Is centuries of oppression by England a heritage worth preserving?

    Let us know if you find anything else.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Stocky said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
    Could we have clarification on which nation's (singular) heritage is going to be understood and appreciated?
    The Nation in which the proprty is situated.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I wonder how many members and how many millions in donations they lost, before the big man’s job became untenable?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,715
    Foxy said:

    All fart and no follow through from Dom tomorrow is my prediction.

    For someone who was telling people he had a galaxy brain and that he was more powerful than the PM it turns out Dom wasn't that clever or powerful.

    He's a pound shop Rasputin.

    I am sure the media will lap up all his claims. Lots of bad headlines of inappropriate things Boris has said and done.
    And the organs that didn't believe a word he said a year ago will believe every single one today.....
    If he provides whistleblower evidence? Yes. If it's just him saying "I saw this"? No
    Cummings twitter feed is hard going. For a man who scripts pithy short slogans along the lines of "four legs good, two legs bad", he is completely incapable of being concise in anything else.

    He is nowhere near as clever as he thinks he is, so likely to be a damp squib today. I think it unlikely to provoke a popcorn shortage.
    First Question: "As you lied repeatedly about breaking lockdown why should this committee believe a word you say this morning?"
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    philiph said:

    Stocky said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
    Could we have clarification on which nation's (singular) heritage is going to be understood and appreciated?
    The Nation in which the proprty is situated.
    England, Wales and NI? Could we call it the nation of rUK perhaps?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    Scott_xP said:

    Playbook scoop

    WhatsApp messages show that — while he was in charge of No. 10 in March 2020 — Dominic Cummings privately ordered senior Cabinet ministers to deny that herd immunity was ever government policy


    https://politi.co/3svJcDk https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1397439859397210112/photo/1

    Cummings is the most unreliable witness since Lord Unreliable of Unreliable Island took the witness stand frankly.
    Does he affirm? Or will there be the entertainment of a smiting from on high?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    Stocky said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
    I am over the moon. Someone at last is saying enough of this woke Shittery.l
    Yes. The purpose of history in this country should not be to look critically at our past, it should be a hagiography to induce patriotism in the middle classes.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:
    I know Judgemeadow. Best state school in Leicester in results terms.

    Nice to see kids taking an interest in politics.
    Yes, and defying the modern English trend against religious belief. How quaint
    Well, some people are stunningly fucking naive.

    We do not expect to see placard waving mobs howling Allahu Akbar stomping through schools in this country. Nothing good will come of it.
    That’s a hostile environment for white Christian I guess
    0.1% Jewish population at the last census.

    http://evington.localstats.co.uk/census-demographics/england/east-midlands/leicester/evington
    Leicester has a small Jewish community, mostly in Stoneygate on the border with Evington.

    I know Judgemeadow school, indeed used to do a yoga class there, it is a good school and a number of my colleagues have had children there. I would have been happy for Fox Jr to go there, though he went to the next door Beauchamp College, which also had a small student protest.

    I think both schools behaved quite appropriately in response, permitting peaceful protest in break time, and enabling discussion of other perspectives.

    https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/pupils-leicester-secondary-school-stand-5456485?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
    One way of putting it.

    I'm sure the Easter celebrations look very similar.
    Not sure what your point is. A protest in favour of a Free Palestine is not the same as a religious festival.

    Fox Jr did RE, and they covered all religious festivals fairly, including Easter, Passover and Purim, and visited Leicesters Synagogue and Churches. He got an A* at GCSE in it.
    All the angry, loud religious chanting sets my alarm bells ringing.

    "Nasty, brutish and short" - definition...

    1. The pathway to Islamist radicalisation
    2.1 The lives of people like me who are unfortunate enough to find ourselves in places where people like that run the show
    2.2 The drop from the top of the tall building to the pavement below
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    The media have stopped caring about Sasha Johnson, now that it’s just another black gang shooting...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/25/people-dragged-sasha-johnsons-shooting-culture-wars-should-ashamed/

    Yet the media prominence that Johnson’s shooting received yesterday morning, accompanied by pictures of her holding up the Black Panther fist, showed just how influential, and dangerous, such a narrative could be. With a little more ambiguity from the police, Abbott’s presumptions would have been allowed to fester throughout the week, wrongly convincing people before any corroboration that Britain had descended into racial warfare.

    That thankfully was avoided, just, and now it is telling how quickly the story has fallen off the agenda. There isn’t much media appetite for another unfortunate black shooting. There isn’t much time in activist circles, either, for the introspection required to tackle the epidemic of violent crime in black areas. We are left in a doom cycle, where people prefer to debate how racist imperial measurements are than discuss these existential issues.

    There isn’t much hope at the moment for that black schoolboy in Peckham.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    My meteorologist chum pithily sums up this year's weather:

    "The Madden Julian oscillation in the Indian ocean - which was strong - coupled with a strong El Nina in the Pacific has kinda thrown it all out of whack."
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
    I am over the moon. Someone at last is saying enough of this woke Shittery.l
    Yes. The purpose of history in this country should not be to look critically at our past, it should be a hagiography to induce patriotism in the middle classes.
    Bollocks. Our History is our history. This is not some Orwellian 1984 world. It happened. Rewriting or hiding or removing evidence of it will not alter the fact that it happened,. Shameful tho it was. It happened.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited May 2021
    I tried it, and my early morning appointment in June is now a late afternoon appointment on the same day.
    (Edit - that was supposed to have been a reply to Topping re-cancelling and rebooking the vax)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:
    I know Judgemeadow. Best state school in Leicester in results terms.

    Nice to see kids taking an interest in politics.
    Yes, and defying the modern English trend against religious belief. How quaint
    Well, some people are stunningly fucking naive.

    We do not expect to see placard waving mobs howling Allahu Akbar stomping through schools in this country. Nothing good will come of it.
    That’s a hostile environment for white Christian I guess
    0.1% Jewish population at the last census.

    http://evington.localstats.co.uk/census-demographics/england/east-midlands/leicester/evington
    Leicester has a small Jewish community, mostly in Stoneygate on the border with Evington.

    I know Judgemeadow school, indeed used to do a yoga class there, it is a good school and a number of my colleagues have had children there. I would have been happy for Fox Jr to go there, though he went to the next door Beauchamp College, which also had a small student protest.

    I think both schools behaved quite appropriately in response, permitting peaceful protest in break time, and enabling discussion of other perspectives.

    https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/pupils-leicester-secondary-school-stand-5456485?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
    One way of putting it.

    I'm sure the Easter celebrations look very similar.
    Not sure what your point is. A protest in favour of a Free Palestine is not the same as a religious festival.

    Fox Jr did RE, and they covered all religious festivals fairly, including Easter, Passover and Purim, and visited Leicesters Synagogue and Churches. He got an A* at GCSE in it.
    All the angry, loud religious chanting sets my alarm bells ringing.

    "Nasty, brutish and short" - definition...

    1. The pathway to Islamist radicalisation
    2.1 The lives of people like me who are unfortunate enough to find ourselves in places where people like that run the show
    2.2 The drop from the top of the tall building to the pavement below
    Don't worry, Judgemeadow is quite woke on gender and sexuality issues. It is a good school.

    I think nearly everyone supports a two state solution, which by definition includes a Free Palestine. I would include free of Hamas too in that aspiration. The question is of borders and methods of how to get there.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    Sandpit said:

    The media have stopped caring about Sasha Johnson, now that it’s just another black gang shooting...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/25/people-dragged-sasha-johnsons-shooting-culture-wars-should-ashamed/

    Yet the media prominence that Johnson’s shooting received yesterday morning, accompanied by pictures of her holding up the Black Panther fist, showed just how influential, and dangerous, such a narrative could be. With a little more ambiguity from the police, Abbott’s presumptions would have been allowed to fester throughout the week, wrongly convincing people before any corroboration that Britain had descended into racial warfare.

    That thankfully was avoided, just, and now it is telling how quickly the story has fallen off the agenda. There isn’t much media appetite for another unfortunate black shooting. There isn’t much time in activist circles, either, for the introspection required to tackle the epidemic of violent crime in black areas. We are left in a doom cycle, where people prefer to debate how racist imperial measurements are than discuss these existential issues.

    There isn’t much hope at the moment for that black schoolboy in Peckham.

    Not such an easy slogan to sell: "Black Lives Don't Matter So Much To Other Blacks (if they get in the way of gangland drug deals).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
    I am over the moon. Someone at last is saying enough of this woke Shittery.l
    Yes. The purpose of history in this country should not be to look critically at our past, it should be a hagiography to induce patriotism in the middle classes.
    Strong Britain Great Nation
    Strong Britain Great Nation
    Strong Britain Great Nation
    Strong Britain Great Nation
    Strong Britain Great Nation

    https://youtu.be/-KAWylrnlvA

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    Sandpit said:

    The media have stopped caring about Sasha Johnson, now that it’s just another black gang shooting...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/25/people-dragged-sasha-johnsons-shooting-culture-wars-should-ashamed/

    Yet the media prominence that Johnson’s shooting received yesterday morning, accompanied by pictures of her holding up the Black Panther fist, showed just how influential, and dangerous, such a narrative could be. With a little more ambiguity from the police, Abbott’s presumptions would have been allowed to fester throughout the week, wrongly convincing people before any corroboration that Britain had descended into racial warfare.

    That thankfully was avoided, just, and now it is telling how quickly the story has fallen off the agenda. There isn’t much media appetite for another unfortunate black shooting. There isn’t much time in activist circles, either, for the introspection required to tackle the epidemic of violent crime in black areas. We are left in a doom cycle, where people prefer to debate how racist imperial measurements are than discuss these existential issues.

    There isn’t much hope at the moment for that black schoolboy in Peckham.

    Plainly there is horrible racism and a cruel indifference as to the consequences of their actions as seen in the Floyd case itself but policing communities that are so riddled and afflicted with gun violence where ending up shot as a bystander because you went to a party has its challenges.

    Is it racist to suggest police in such an environment are likely to draw their guns and resort to lethal force more quickly than they might in a white, middle class area? Is it even perhaps understandable that police officers might be frightened going into such an environment and resent that fear blaming the community that generates it?

    What is the chicken and what is the egg?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    UK orders for Royal Navy ships support Scottish shipbuilding jobs while SNP may turn to Poland to build much-needed ferries

    https://twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1397221775369543680?s=20
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    The media have stopped caring about Sasha Johnson, now that it’s just another black gang shooting...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/25/people-dragged-sasha-johnsons-shooting-culture-wars-should-ashamed/

    Yet the media prominence that Johnson’s shooting received yesterday morning, accompanied by pictures of her holding up the Black Panther fist, showed just how influential, and dangerous, such a narrative could be. With a little more ambiguity from the police, Abbott’s presumptions would have been allowed to fester throughout the week, wrongly convincing people before any corroboration that Britain had descended into racial warfare.

    That thankfully was avoided, just, and now it is telling how quickly the story has fallen off the agenda. There isn’t much media appetite for another unfortunate black shooting. There isn’t much time in activist circles, either, for the introspection required to tackle the epidemic of violent crime in black areas. We are left in a doom cycle, where people prefer to debate how racist imperial measurements are than discuss these existential issues.

    There isn’t much hope at the moment for that black schoolboy in Peckham.

    Plainly there is horrible racism and a cruel indifference as to the consequences of their actions as seen in the Floyd case itself but policing communities that are so riddled and afflicted with gun violence where ending up shot as a bystander because you went to a party has its challenges.

    Is it racist to suggest police in such an environment are likely to draw their guns and resort to lethal force more quickly than they might in a white, middle class area? Is it even perhaps understandable that police officers might be frightened going into such an environment and resent that fear blaming the community that generates it?

    What is the chicken and what is the egg?
    And how the hell have we got to the point where gang violence has exploded in London in the past few years?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
    I am over the moon. Someone at last is saying enough of this woke Shittery.l
    Yes. The purpose of history in this country should not be to look critically at our past, it should be a hagiography to induce patriotism in the middle classes.
    Bollocks. Our History is our history. This is not some Orwellian 1984 world. It happened. Rewriting or hiding or removing evidence of it will not alter the fact that it happened,. Shameful tho it was. It happened.
    Glad to hear that you are supportive of the displays on how slave plantations funded many NT properties.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    The media have stopped caring about Sasha Johnson, now that it’s just another black gang shooting...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/25/people-dragged-sasha-johnsons-shooting-culture-wars-should-ashamed/

    Yet the media prominence that Johnson’s shooting received yesterday morning, accompanied by pictures of her holding up the Black Panther fist, showed just how influential, and dangerous, such a narrative could be. With a little more ambiguity from the police, Abbott’s presumptions would have been allowed to fester throughout the week, wrongly convincing people before any corroboration that Britain had descended into racial warfare.

    That thankfully was avoided, just, and now it is telling how quickly the story has fallen off the agenda. There isn’t much media appetite for another unfortunate black shooting. There isn’t much time in activist circles, either, for the introspection required to tackle the epidemic of violent crime in black areas. We are left in a doom cycle, where people prefer to debate how racist imperial measurements are than discuss these existential issues.

    There isn’t much hope at the moment for that black schoolboy in Peckham.

    Plainly there is horrible racism and a cruel indifference as to the consequences of their actions as seen in the Floyd case itself but policing communities that are so riddled and afflicted with gun violence where ending up shot as a bystander because you went to a party has its challenges.

    Is it racist to suggest police in such an environment are likely to draw their guns and resort to lethal force more quickly than they might in a white, middle class area? Is it even perhaps understandable that police officers might be frightened going into such an environment and resent that fear blaming the community that generates it?

    What is the chicken and what is the egg?
    And how the hell have we got to the point where gang violence has exploded in London in the past few years?
    I don't know how much it's changed in the last few years. Let's be honest, this case has probably only made the news because of who she is.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    On R4 this morning some discussion about bringing the BBC's United Kingdom theme back - withdrawn in 2006:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QNeHamS_Y0
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,715
    Alan White
    @aljwhite
    The fact that Cummings texted Cabinet ministers to deny herd immunity was ever government policy is not at odds with his Twitter thread, because he’s already pretty much contradicted himself in that too.

    He just wanted some Sunday headlines.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,433

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    The problem is that the public think it really is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

    Everyone remembers Barnard Castle.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    The media have stopped caring about Sasha Johnson, now that it’s just another black gang shooting...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/25/people-dragged-sasha-johnsons-shooting-culture-wars-should-ashamed/

    Yet the media prominence that Johnson’s shooting received yesterday morning, accompanied by pictures of her holding up the Black Panther fist, showed just how influential, and dangerous, such a narrative could be. With a little more ambiguity from the police, Abbott’s presumptions would have been allowed to fester throughout the week, wrongly convincing people before any corroboration that Britain had descended into racial warfare.

    That thankfully was avoided, just, and now it is telling how quickly the story has fallen off the agenda. There isn’t much media appetite for another unfortunate black shooting. There isn’t much time in activist circles, either, for the introspection required to tackle the epidemic of violent crime in black areas. We are left in a doom cycle, where people prefer to debate how racist imperial measurements are than discuss these existential issues.

    There isn’t much hope at the moment for that black schoolboy in Peckham.

    Plainly there is horrible racism and a cruel indifference as to the consequences of their actions as seen in the Floyd case itself but policing communities that are so riddled and afflicted with gun violence where ending up shot as a bystander because you went to a party has its challenges.

    Is it racist to suggest police in such an environment are likely to draw their guns and resort to lethal force more quickly than they might in a white, middle class area? Is it even perhaps understandable that police officers might be frightened going into such an environment and resent that fear blaming the community that generates it?

    What is the chicken and what is the egg?
    And how the hell have we got to the point where gang violence has exploded in London in the past few years?
    Well we created a remarkable demand for certain chemical substances, then we restricted supply to those who were acting illegally driving up the price and the profit margins, then we prevented any other more conventional form of marketing and allowed the inevitable competition for that valuable market to be resolved only by means of violence.

    Its pretty simple really. America of course made the same mistake earlier in its history by prohibiting the sale of alcohol with....exactly the same result.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    Ladies & Gentlemen, I give you Scotland's "Solicitor of the Year, 2018 Lawyer of the Year 2017 and Former Rector University Glasgow ."

    Dear @pritipatel you have no jurisdiction in Scotland, keep your dawn raids to yourself, we intend to demolish your barbaric policies & look forward to welcoming you soon

    https://twitter.com/AamerAnwar/status/1396912671749033995?s=20

    2017 and 2018 were thin years....
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
    I am over the moon. Someone at last is saying enough of this woke Shittery.l
    Yes. The purpose of history in this country should not be to look critically at our past, it should be a hagiography to induce patriotism in the middle classes.
    Bollocks. Our History is our history. This is not some Orwellian 1984 world. It happened. Rewriting or hiding or removing evidence of it will not alter the fact that it happened,. Shameful tho it was. It happened.
    Glad to hear that you are supportive of the displays on how slave plantations funded many NT properties.
    Its very interesting to look at history as it actually was. We don't need any woke shite bemoaning it or rewriting it by removing evidence of it. We know about slavery and how awful it was . We were taught history at school.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884

    Foxy said:

    All fart and no follow through from Dom tomorrow is my prediction.

    For someone who was telling people he had a galaxy brain and that he was more powerful than the PM it turns out Dom wasn't that clever or powerful.

    He's a pound shop Rasputin.

    I am sure the media will lap up all his claims. Lots of bad headlines of inappropriate things Boris has said and done.
    And the organs that didn't believe a word he said a year ago will believe every single one today.....
    If he provides whistleblower evidence? Yes. If it's just him saying "I saw this"? No
    Cummings twitter feed is hard going. For a man who scripts pithy short slogans along the lines of "four legs good, two legs bad", he is completely incapable of being concise in anything else.

    He is nowhere near as clever as he thinks he is, so likely to be a damp squib today. I think it unlikely to provoke a popcorn shortage.
    First Question: "As you lied repeatedly about breaking lockdown why should this committee believe a word you say this morning?"
    I think you'll find at least one committee member being completely unable to help themselves and ruining it for the lot of them.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
    I am over the moon. Someone at last is saying enough of this woke Shittery.l
    Yes. The purpose of history in this country should not be to look critically at our past, it should be a hagiography to induce patriotism in the middle classes.
    Bollocks. Our History is our history. This is not some Orwellian 1984 world. It happened. Rewriting or hiding or removing evidence of it will not alter the fact that it happened,. Shameful tho it was. It happened.
    Glad to hear that you are supportive of the displays on how slave plantations funded many NT properties.
    Its very interesting to look at history as it actually was. We don't need any woke shite bemoaning it or rewriting it by removing evidence of it. We know about slavery and how awful it was . We were taught history at school.
    "woke shite bemoaning it" isn't removing it, it is providing education about our history.

    Which is part of the NT's job isn't it?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
    I am over the moon. Someone at last is saying enough of this woke Shittery.l
    Yes. The purpose of history in this country should not be to look critically at our past, it should be a hagiography to induce patriotism in the middle classes.
    Bollocks. Our History is our history. This is not some Orwellian 1984 world. It happened. Rewriting or hiding or removing evidence of it will not alter the fact that it happened,. Shameful tho it was. It happened.
    Glad to hear that you are supportive of the displays on how slave plantations funded many NT properties.
    Its very interesting to look at history as it actually was. We don't need any woke shite bemoaning it or rewriting it by removing evidence of it. We know about slavery and how awful it was . We were taught history at school.
    Thanks for the insight, A.J.P.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:
    I know Judgemeadow. Best state school in Leicester in results terms.

    Nice to see kids taking an interest in politics.
    Yes, and defying the modern English trend against religious belief. How quaint
    Well, some people are stunningly fucking naive.

    We do not expect to see placard waving mobs howling Allahu Akbar stomping through schools in this country. Nothing good will come of it.
    That’s a hostile environment for white Christian I guess
    0.1% Jewish population at the last census.

    http://evington.localstats.co.uk/census-demographics/england/east-midlands/leicester/evington
    Leicester has a small Jewish community, mostly in Stoneygate on the border with Evington.

    I know Judgemeadow school, indeed used to do a yoga class there, it is a good school and a number of my colleagues have had children there. I would have been happy for Fox Jr to go there, though he went to the next door Beauchamp College, which also had a small student protest.

    I think both schools behaved quite appropriately in response, permitting peaceful protest in break time, and enabling discussion of other perspectives.

    https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/pupils-leicester-secondary-school-stand-5456485?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
    One way of putting it.

    I'm sure the Easter celebrations look very similar.
    Not sure what your point is. A protest in favour of a Free Palestine is not the same as a religious festival.

    Fox Jr did RE, and they covered all religious festivals fairly, including Easter, Passover and Purim, and visited Leicesters Synagogue and Churches. He got an A* at GCSE in it.
    It certainly is not the same as a religious festival although I'm sure religion would come into it at some point.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Can anyone explain the difference between 'minimise travel' and 'avoid non-essential travel?

    Either way, I've got a sound reason not to visit my brothers in law.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited May 2021

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Piers Morgan asks Kier Starmer if he’s taken drugs 14 times but he refuses to answer

    The Labour leader squirmed during a grilling sparked by claims he was a “party animal” at university.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tv/15066704/piers-morgan-keir-starmer-drugs-life-stories/

    Its such a silly approach, just say yes....Nobody is going to give a monkeys if you had a cheeky smoke 40 years ago.

    There used to be a R5 show, was it Pienaar which asked a regular series of questions to the MP of week who was the guest and it was always have you done drugs. I remember some Tory, just said yes, of course, and next week Stephen Kinnock came on and did a Starmer.

    FFS. Why doesn't he just say he was one for the doobage?
    Many people his age were. It makes him more relatable, and, arguably, interesting.
    Who the heck is advising him?
    Edit. I see you said pretty much the same in the extended remix of your post. I replied to the radio play single.
    All bloody baffling.
    One theory I've heard about politicians not wanting to admit to past drug use is that they have children who are teenagers/students and they don't want to give them a free pass to do drugs because mummy or daddy publicly admitted to doing the wacky baccy or something stronger when they were students.
    You've got two choices when asked this sort of question as a politician. Either you can give witty answer, or an honest one.
    This is Boris' advantage over Starmer.
    My answer would be that I've never taken drugs, I was too scared of dying don't need to take drugs to have a good time.

    Very few people who know me would call me boring.
    I never did drugs when I was younger.

    Besides which I had plenty of fun with alcohol
    Er......

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    alex_ said:

    Re: discussions about wallpaper. Aren’t people overlooking that this is an appearance before the Health Select committee to talk about the Govt’s Covid response? It’s not “any questions with Dominic Cummings”

    I actually discussed this with my friend last night.

    Dom Cummings: The PM was distracted at the start of the pandemic with writing a book to pay his divorce bill and obsessing with the refurbishment of the Downing Street flat and who paid for it.

    That allows the Health Select Committee to legitimately discuss the wallpaper/refurbishment today.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    On R4 this morning some discussion about bringing the BBC's United Kingdom theme back - withdrawn in 2006:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QNeHamS_Y0

    It was on so early that the only times I heard it was when I was off on my holidays or up at sparrow's fart to go see a rare bird.

    Happy memories.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,595
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
    I am over the moon. Someone at last is saying enough of this woke Shittery.l
    Yes. The purpose of history in this country should not be to look critically at our past, it should be a hagiography to induce patriotism in the middle classes.
    Bollocks. Our History is our history. This is not some Orwellian 1984 world. It happened. Rewriting or hiding or removing evidence of it will not alter the fact that it happened,. Shameful tho it was. It happened.
    Glad to hear that you are supportive of the displays on how slave plantations funded many NT properties.
    Many were also funded by sending six year olds down mines in this country.

    But I don't see many people concerned about that.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Piers Morgan asks Kier Starmer if he’s taken drugs 14 times but he refuses to answer

    The Labour leader squirmed during a grilling sparked by claims he was a “party animal” at university.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tv/15066704/piers-morgan-keir-starmer-drugs-life-stories/

    Its such a silly approach, just say yes....Nobody is going to give a monkeys if you had a cheeky smoke 40 years ago.

    There used to be a R5 show, was it Pienaar which asked a regular series of questions to the MP of week who was the guest and it was always have you done drugs. I remember some Tory, just said yes, of course, and next week Stephen Kinnock came on and did a Starmer.

    FFS. Why doesn't he just say he was one for the doobage?
    Many people his age were. It makes him more relatable, and, arguably, interesting.
    Who the heck is advising him?
    Edit. I see you said pretty much the same in the extended remix of your post. I replied to the radio play single.
    All bloody baffling.
    One theory I've heard about politicians not wanting to admit to past drug use is that they have children who are teenagers/students and they don't want to give them a free pass to do drugs because mummy or daddy publicly admitted to doing the wacky baccy or something stronger when they were students.
    You've got two choices when asked this sort of question as a politician. Either you can give witty answer, or an honest one.
    This is Boris' advantage over Starmer.
    My answer would be that I've never taken drugs, I was too scared of dying don't need to take drugs to have a good time.

    Very few people who know me would call me boring.
    I never did drugs when I was younger.

    Variety of reasons. I didn't like the sort of people who I saw frequently took drugs, and who they got them from. I read too many bad stories of what could happen if you took drugs. And I saw too much weird behaviour of those who had taken them - which put me off even trying.

    Besides which I had plenty of fun with alcohol, dancing and parties at college and university, and that was more than enough for me. I never felt a need for anything else.
    Same (apart from the dancing that I was crap at, in hindsight maybe some MDMA might have helped there).

    Oh, and I was also a boring young fart who was inevitably going to end up something deadly dull like a lawyer. If I ever went truly nuts and decided that I should stand for public office would I be tempted to make myself sound more fun? Probably not, which may be one reason it doesn't appeal. SKS faces that very dilemma.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:
    I know Judgemeadow. Best state school in Leicester in results terms.

    Nice to see kids taking an interest in politics.
    Yes, and defying the modern English trend against religious belief. How quaint
    Well, some people are stunningly fucking naive.

    We do not expect to see placard waving mobs howling Allahu Akbar stomping through schools in this country. Nothing good will come of it.
    That’s a hostile environment for white Christian I guess
    0.1% Jewish population at the last census.

    http://evington.localstats.co.uk/census-demographics/england/east-midlands/leicester/evington
    Leicester has a small Jewish community, mostly in Stoneygate on the border with Evington.

    I know Judgemeadow school, indeed used to do a yoga class there, it is a good school and a number of my colleagues have had children there. I would have been happy for Fox Jr to go there, though he went to the next door Beauchamp College, which also had a small student protest.

    I think both schools behaved quite appropriately in response, permitting peaceful protest in break time, and enabling discussion of other perspectives.

    https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/pupils-leicester-secondary-school-stand-5456485?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
    One way of putting it.

    I'm sure the Easter celebrations look very similar.
    Not sure what your point is. A protest in favour of a Free Palestine is not the same as a religious festival.

    Fox Jr did RE, and they covered all religious festivals fairly, including Easter, Passover and Purim, and visited Leicesters Synagogue and Churches. He got an A* at GCSE in it.
    All the angry, loud religious chanting sets my alarm bells ringing.

    "Nasty, brutish and short" - definition...

    1. The pathway to Islamist radicalisation
    2.1 The lives of people like me who are unfortunate enough to find ourselves in places where people like that run the show
    2.2 The drop from the top of the tall building to the pavement below
    Off topic, but in response to your post

    Is this the definitive Thomas Hobbes analysis of Islam? 2.2 is somewhat obtuse.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited May 2021
    Chris Hopson of NHS Providers tells @TimesRadio that 70% of people being hospitalised for Covid are under-45. Few are going to intensive care. The vast majority of those hospitalised have not been vaccinated.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1397451156968902656?s=20
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Piers Morgan asks Kier Starmer if he’s taken drugs 14 times but he refuses to answer

    The Labour leader squirmed during a grilling sparked by claims he was a “party animal” at university.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tv/15066704/piers-morgan-keir-starmer-drugs-life-stories/

    Its such a silly approach, just say yes....Nobody is going to give a monkeys if you had a cheeky smoke 40 years ago.

    There used to be a R5 show, was it Pienaar which asked a regular series of questions to the MP of week who was the guest and it was always have you done drugs. I remember some Tory, just said yes, of course, and next week Stephen Kinnock came on and did a Starmer.

    FFS. Why doesn't he just say he was one for the doobage?
    Many people his age were. It makes him more relatable, and, arguably, interesting.
    Who the heck is advising him?
    Edit. I see you said pretty much the same in the extended remix of your post. I replied to the radio play single.
    All bloody baffling.
    One theory I've heard about politicians not wanting to admit to past drug use is that they have children who are teenagers/students and they don't want to give them a free pass to do drugs because mummy or daddy publicly admitted to doing the wacky baccy or something stronger when they were students.
    You've got two choices when asked this sort of question as a politician. Either you can give witty answer, or an honest one.
    This is Boris' advantage over Starmer.
    My answer would be that I've never taken drugs, I was too scared of dying don't need to take drugs to have a good time.

    Very few people who know me would call me boring.
    I never did drugs when I was younger.

    Variety of reasons. I didn't like the sort of people who I saw frequently took drugs, and who they got them from. I read too many bad stories of what could happen if you took drugs. And I saw too much weird behaviour of those who had taken them - which put me off even trying.

    Besides which I had plenty of fun with alcohol, dancing and parties at college and university, and that was more than enough for me. I never felt a need for anything else.
    Same, apart from the alcohol drinking, because I've always been a good Muslim boy.

    Things like the death of people like Leah Betts had a profound effect on me, plus there was this report in the media the summer before I went to university that something like 50% of drugs sold in nightclubs were fake or paracetamol or horse tranquilisers. I didn't want to get ripped off.

    At university I was surrounded by the progeny of horrendously middle/upper class people, the only drug that was really offer on was cocaine. Not really my thing.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    The media have stopped caring about Sasha Johnson, now that it’s just another black gang shooting...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/25/people-dragged-sasha-johnsons-shooting-culture-wars-should-ashamed/

    Yet the media prominence that Johnson’s shooting received yesterday morning, accompanied by pictures of her holding up the Black Panther fist, showed just how influential, and dangerous, such a narrative could be. With a little more ambiguity from the police, Abbott’s presumptions would have been allowed to fester throughout the week, wrongly convincing people before any corroboration that Britain had descended into racial warfare.

    That thankfully was avoided, just, and now it is telling how quickly the story has fallen off the agenda. There isn’t much media appetite for another unfortunate black shooting. There isn’t much time in activist circles, either, for the introspection required to tackle the epidemic of violent crime in black areas. We are left in a doom cycle, where people prefer to debate how racist imperial measurements are than discuss these existential issues.

    There isn’t much hope at the moment for that black schoolboy in Peckham.

    Plainly there is horrible racism and a cruel indifference as to the consequences of their actions as seen in the Floyd case itself but policing communities that are so riddled and afflicted with gun violence where ending up shot as a bystander because you went to a party has its challenges.

    Is it racist to suggest police in such an environment are likely to draw their guns and resort to lethal force more quickly than they might in a white, middle class area? Is it even perhaps understandable that police officers might be frightened going into such an environment and resent that fear blaming the community that generates it?

    What is the chicken and what is the egg?
    And how the hell have we got to the point where gang violence has exploded in London in the past few years?
    "police in such an environment are likely to draw their guns and resort to lethal force more quickly than they might in a white, middle class area"

    The evidence is that the police, in the UK, rarely *draw* firearms. Let alone actual use them.

    The lady who was shot espoused "defund the police". After some digging - it is curious how the UK demands of BLM are not articulated beyond the slogans - it turns out to include ending Operation Trident. Which is the specialist operation dealing with gang shootings. Not just in the Black community - it's remit was expanded.

    Interestingly, Trident isn't an American style commando unit jumping through peoples windows in Ninja wear. It includes a major amount of community out reach. Including working with Grime artists to try and influence people away from violence.

    Isn't this the kind of stuff we need?
    Police in this country rarely come across guns. I know someone who was an Authorised Firearms Officer for 10 years and never once fired his gun in anger. The impression he gave was that that was pretty normal.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
    I am over the moon. Someone at last is saying enough of this woke Shittery.l
    Yes. The purpose of history in this country should not be to look critically at our past, it should be a hagiography to induce patriotism in the middle classes.
    Bollocks. Our History is our history. This is not some Orwellian 1984 world. It happened. Rewriting or hiding or removing evidence of it will not alter the fact that it happened,. Shameful tho it was. It happened.
    Glad to hear that you are supportive of the displays on how slave plantations funded many NT properties.
    Its very interesting to look at history as it actually was. We don't need any woke shite bemoaning it or rewriting it by removing evidence of it. We know about slavery and how awful it was . We were taught history at school.
    Thanks for the insight, A.J.P.
    I feel sure you would be good at rewriting history.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,433

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Piers Morgan asks Kier Starmer if he’s taken drugs 14 times but he refuses to answer

    The Labour leader squirmed during a grilling sparked by claims he was a “party animal” at university.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tv/15066704/piers-morgan-keir-starmer-drugs-life-stories/

    Its such a silly approach, just say yes....Nobody is going to give a monkeys if you had a cheeky smoke 40 years ago.

    There used to be a R5 show, was it Pienaar which asked a regular series of questions to the MP of week who was the guest and it was always have you done drugs. I remember some Tory, just said yes, of course, and next week Stephen Kinnock came on and did a Starmer.

    FFS. Why doesn't he just say he was one for the doobage?
    Many people his age were. It makes him more relatable, and, arguably, interesting.
    Who the heck is advising him?
    Edit. I see you said pretty much the same in the extended remix of your post. I replied to the radio play single.
    All bloody baffling.
    One theory I've heard about politicians not wanting to admit to past drug use is that they have children who are teenagers/students and they don't want to give them a free pass to do drugs because mummy or daddy publicly admitted to doing the wacky baccy or something stronger when they were students.
    You've got two choices when asked this sort of question as a politician. Either you can give witty answer, or an honest one.
    This is Boris' advantage over Starmer.
    My answer would be that I've never taken drugs, I was too scared of dying don't need to take drugs to have a good time.

    Very few people who know me would call me boring.
    I never did drugs when I was younger.

    Besides which I had plenty of fun with alcohol
    Er......

    Yeah yeah, I know.. alcohol is a "drug".

    But we all know it's not what we mean when we're talking about drugs. What we mean is cannabis, ecstasy, cocaine, heroine etc.

    That's what we mean by drugs. Narcotics you smoke, sniff, inhail or inject.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    All fart and no follow through from Dom tomorrow is my prediction.

    For someone who was telling people he had a galaxy brain and that he was more powerful than the PM it turns out Dom wasn't that clever or powerful.

    He's a pound shop Rasputin.

    Grigori Yefimovich took a lot of killing, and the royal family who his assassins were trying to protect were up against the wall (or down the basement to be precise) 17 months later.

    Just sayin'..
    Irrelevant, the most important thing is will some decent band do a song all about Dom Cummings?

    Perhaps that what our entry in next year's Eurovision should be all about.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    In his first comments on forcing the Ryanair jet to land, Lukashenko says the “bomb threat” came from Switzerland – that noted hotbed of Hamas activity

    https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1397453197103480837?s=20
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Piers Morgan asks Kier Starmer if he’s taken drugs 14 times but he refuses to answer

    The Labour leader squirmed during a grilling sparked by claims he was a “party animal” at university.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tv/15066704/piers-morgan-keir-starmer-drugs-life-stories/

    Its such a silly approach, just say yes....Nobody is going to give a monkeys if you had a cheeky smoke 40 years ago.

    There used to be a R5 show, was it Pienaar which asked a regular series of questions to the MP of week who was the guest and it was always have you done drugs. I remember some Tory, just said yes, of course, and next week Stephen Kinnock came on and did a Starmer.

    FFS. Why doesn't he just say he was one for the doobage?
    Many people his age were. It makes him more relatable, and, arguably, interesting.
    Who the heck is advising him?
    Edit. I see you said pretty much the same in the extended remix of your post. I replied to the radio play single.
    All bloody baffling.
    One theory I've heard about politicians not wanting to admit to past drug use is that they have children who are teenagers/students and they don't want to give them a free pass to do drugs because mummy or daddy publicly admitted to doing the wacky baccy or something stronger when they were students.
    You've got two choices when asked this sort of question as a politician. Either you can give witty answer, or an honest one.
    This is Boris' advantage over Starmer.
    My answer would be that I've never taken drugs, I was too scared of dying don't need to take drugs to have a good time.

    Very few people who know me would call me boring.
    I never did drugs when I was younger.

    Besides which I had plenty of fun with alcohol
    Er......

    Yeah yeah, I know.. alcohol is a "drug".

    But we all know it's not what we mean when we're talking about drugs. What we mean is cannabis, ecstasy, cocaine, heroine etc.

    That's what we mean by drugs. Narcotics you smoke, sniff, inhail or inject.
    Heroines are a drug? Well, of a sort. They are certainly pretty addictive.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    philiph said:

    Stocky said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
    Could we have clarification on which nation's (singular) heritage is going to be understood and appreciated?
    The Nation in which the proprty is situated.
    England, Wales and NI? Could we call it the nation of rUK perhaps?
    I believe that the National Trust for Scotland is a separate legal entity. So it’s quite clear what it is referring to and you are just being petty and divisive.

    It must be sad to have so much hate inside you.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,627
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/fishermen-to-march-on-taoiseach-s-cork-office-over-brexit-deal-and-fish-quota-1.4574877

    A flotilla of 50 trawlers will sail into Cork Harbour and their crews will march to the office of Taoiseach Micheál Martin calling for a fair share of quota for Irish fishermen.

    The protest scheduled for Wednesday is organised by the Irish South and West Fish Producers Organisation (ISWFPO) and aims to highlight the difficulties facing the Irish fishing industry since the Brexit deal, which has reduced access to UK waters.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    Re: discussions about wallpaper. Aren’t people overlooking that this is an appearance before the Health Select committee to talk about the Govt’s Covid response? It’s not “any questions with Dominic Cummings”

    I actually discussed this with my friend last night.

    Dom Cummings: The PM was distracted at the start of the pandemic with writing a book to pay his divorce bill and obsessing with the refurbishment of the Downing Street flat and who paid for it.

    That allows the Health Select Committee to legitimately discuss the wallpaper/refurbishment today.
    But I’m not sure why they would even want to? Firstly it just discredits their efforts to conduct a serious investigation. And secondly, isn’t the conventional wisdom now that obsessing for days over wallpaper actually did as much damage to his opponents as it did to Johnson?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
    I am over the moon. Someone at last is saying enough of this woke Shittery.l
    Yes. The purpose of history in this country should not be to look critically at our past, it should be a hagiography to induce patriotism in the middle classes.
    Bollocks. Our History is our history. This is not some Orwellian 1984 world. It happened. Rewriting or hiding or removing evidence of it will not alter the fact that it happened,. Shameful tho it was. It happened.
    Glad to hear that you are supportive of the displays on how slave plantations funded many NT properties.
    Many were also funded by sending six year olds down mines in this country.

    But I don't see many people concerned about that.
    Oh, absolutely that should be covered too. The Rees Moggs started as mine owners for example.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited May 2021

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Piers Morgan asks Kier Starmer if he’s taken drugs 14 times but he refuses to answer

    The Labour leader squirmed during a grilling sparked by claims he was a “party animal” at university.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tv/15066704/piers-morgan-keir-starmer-drugs-life-stories/

    Its such a silly approach, just say yes....Nobody is going to give a monkeys if you had a cheeky smoke 40 years ago.

    There used to be a R5 show, was it Pienaar which asked a regular series of questions to the MP of week who was the guest and it was always have you done drugs. I remember some Tory, just said yes, of course, and next week Stephen Kinnock came on and did a Starmer.

    FFS. Why doesn't he just say he was one for the doobage?
    Many people his age were. It makes him more relatable, and, arguably, interesting.
    Who the heck is advising him?
    Edit. I see you said pretty much the same in the extended remix of your post. I replied to the radio play single.
    All bloody baffling.
    One theory I've heard about politicians not wanting to admit to past drug use is that they have children who are teenagers/students and they don't want to give them a free pass to do drugs because mummy or daddy publicly admitted to doing the wacky baccy or something stronger when they were students.
    You've got two choices when asked this sort of question as a politician. Either you can give witty answer, or an honest one.
    This is Boris' advantage over Starmer.
    My answer would be that I've never taken drugs, I was too scared of dying don't need to take drugs to have a good time.

    Very few people who know me would call me boring.
    I never did drugs when I was younger.

    Variety of reasons. I didn't like the sort of people who I saw frequently took drugs, and who they got them from. I read too many bad stories of what could happen if you took drugs. And I saw too much weird behaviour of those who had taken them - which put me off even trying.

    Besides which I had plenty of fun with alcohol, dancing and parties at college and university, and that was more than enough for me. I never felt a need for anything else.
    Same, apart from the alcohol drinking, because I've always been a good Muslim boy.

    Things like the death of people like Leah Betts had a profound effect on me, plus there was this report in the media the summer before I went to university that something like 50% of drugs sold in nightclubs were fake or paracetamol or horse tranquilisers. I didn't want to get ripped off.

    At university I was surrounded by the progeny of horrendously middle/upper class people, the only drug that was really offer on was cocaine. Not really my thing.
    Very similar experience here.

    As the ‘90s progressed, “Es are good” quickly became “Es are bad”, and apart from a few potheads there weren’t a lot of other drugs around. I wasn’t going to do coke, when beer was £1.50 a pint and did the job just fine.

    People six or seven years older than us, they got the best pills in ‘88 and ‘89.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,433

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    The media have stopped caring about Sasha Johnson, now that it’s just another black gang shooting...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/25/people-dragged-sasha-johnsons-shooting-culture-wars-should-ashamed/

    Yet the media prominence that Johnson’s shooting received yesterday morning, accompanied by pictures of her holding up the Black Panther fist, showed just how influential, and dangerous, such a narrative could be. With a little more ambiguity from the police, Abbott’s presumptions would have been allowed to fester throughout the week, wrongly convincing people before any corroboration that Britain had descended into racial warfare.

    That thankfully was avoided, just, and now it is telling how quickly the story has fallen off the agenda. There isn’t much media appetite for another unfortunate black shooting. There isn’t much time in activist circles, either, for the introspection required to tackle the epidemic of violent crime in black areas. We are left in a doom cycle, where people prefer to debate how racist imperial measurements are than discuss these existential issues.

    There isn’t much hope at the moment for that black schoolboy in Peckham.

    Plainly there is horrible racism and a cruel indifference as to the consequences of their actions as seen in the Floyd case itself but policing communities that are so riddled and afflicted with gun violence where ending up shot as a bystander because you went to a party has its challenges.

    Is it racist to suggest police in such an environment are likely to draw their guns and resort to lethal force more quickly than they might in a white, middle class area? Is it even perhaps understandable that police officers might be frightened going into such an environment and resent that fear blaming the community that generates it?

    What is the chicken and what is the egg?
    And how the hell have we got to the point where gang violence has exploded in London in the past few years?
    "police in such an environment are likely to draw their guns and resort to lethal force more quickly than they might in a white, middle class area"

    The evidence is that the police, in the UK, rarely *draw* firearms. Let alone actual use them.

    The lady who was shot espoused "defund the police". After some digging - it is curious how the UK demands of BLM are not articulated beyond the slogans - it turns out to include ending Operation Trident. Which is the specialist operation dealing with gang shootings. Not just in the Black community - it's remit was expanded.

    Interestingly, Trident isn't an American style commando unit jumping through peoples windows in Ninja wear. It includes a major amount of community out reach. Including working with Grime artists to try and influence people away from violence.

    Isn't this the kind of stuff we need?
    I suspect if you're black and living in inner London you get stopped by the police all the time.

    It happened to me as a 17-year old driving my car when I was with my mates over 20 years ago and I still remember how irritated I was about it then today - the officer checked absolutely everything (tyres, licence, insurance, lights etc) trying to find something to do me for. He just didn't like a few lads out driving at 11pm and assumed we were yobs or dealers up to something. We actually just liked driving to music, going on a road trip, and discussing how bad our failures with girls were.

    He finished by saying, "I just like to know what's going on in my area", and then left.

    That said.. I don't doubt that there would have been groups of lads (at times) up to no good that looked like us too.

    It's difficult. It always feels personal.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    Charles said:

    philiph said:

    Stocky said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
    Could we have clarification on which nation's (singular) heritage is going to be understood and appreciated?
    The Nation in which the proprty is situated.
    England, Wales and NI? Could we call it the nation of rUK perhaps?
    I believe that the National Trust for Scotland is a separate legal entity. So it’s quite clear what it is referring to and you are just being petty and divisive.

    It must be sad to have so much hate inside you.
    As long as I'm never that pompous this early in the day I'll take the hate
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    Starmer is obviously wise not to admit to taking illegal substances, given his career history. He has anticipated the potential headlines:

    Sheer hypocrisy: DPP and Head of CPS admits criminal offences while jailing thousands for similar offences.

    Best avoided by a non-answer. He's not in the same position as politicians with a different hinterland.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Re: discussions about wallpaper. Aren’t people overlooking that this is an appearance before the Health Select committee to talk about the Govt’s Covid response? It’s not “any questions with Dominic Cummings”

    I actually discussed this with my friend last night.

    Dom Cummings: The PM was distracted at the start of the pandemic with writing a book to pay his divorce bill and obsessing with the refurbishment of the Downing Street flat and who paid for it.

    That allows the Health Select Committee to legitimately discuss the wallpaper/refurbishment today.
    But I’m not sure why they would even want to? Firstly it just discredits their efforts to conduct a serious investigation. And secondly, isn’t the conventional wisdom now that obsessing for days over wallpaper actually did as much damage to his opponents as it did to Johnson?
    They'll do it for the same reason an alcoholic reaches for a drink.

    They can't help themselves.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,255
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    The media have stopped caring about Sasha Johnson, now that it’s just another black gang shooting...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/25/people-dragged-sasha-johnsons-shooting-culture-wars-should-ashamed/

    Yet the media prominence that Johnson’s shooting received yesterday morning, accompanied by pictures of her holding up the Black Panther fist, showed just how influential, and dangerous, such a narrative could be. With a little more ambiguity from the police, Abbott’s presumptions would have been allowed to fester throughout the week, wrongly convincing people before any corroboration that Britain had descended into racial warfare.

    That thankfully was avoided, just, and now it is telling how quickly the story has fallen off the agenda. There isn’t much media appetite for another unfortunate black shooting. There isn’t much time in activist circles, either, for the introspection required to tackle the epidemic of violent crime in black areas. We are left in a doom cycle, where people prefer to debate how racist imperial measurements are than discuss these existential issues.

    There isn’t much hope at the moment for that black schoolboy in Peckham.

    Plainly there is horrible racism and a cruel indifference as to the consequences of their actions as seen in the Floyd case itself but policing communities that are so riddled and afflicted with gun violence where ending up shot as a bystander because you went to a party has its challenges.

    Is it racist to suggest police in such an environment are likely to draw their guns and resort to lethal force more quickly than they might in a white, middle class area? Is it even perhaps understandable that police officers might be frightened going into such an environment and resent that fear blaming the community that generates it?

    What is the chicken and what is the egg?
    And how the hell have we got to the point where gang violence has exploded in London in the past few years?
    "police in such an environment are likely to draw their guns and resort to lethal force more quickly than they might in a white, middle class area"

    The evidence is that the police, in the UK, rarely *draw* firearms. Let alone actual use them.

    The lady who was shot espoused "defund the police". After some digging - it is curious how the UK demands of BLM are not articulated beyond the slogans - it turns out to include ending Operation Trident. Which is the specialist operation dealing with gang shootings. Not just in the Black community - it's remit was expanded.

    Interestingly, Trident isn't an American style commando unit jumping through peoples windows in Ninja wear. It includes a major amount of community out reach. Including working with Grime artists to try and influence people away from violence.

    Isn't this the kind of stuff we need?
    Police in this country rarely come across guns. I know someone who was an Authorised Firearms Officer for 10 years and never once fired his gun in anger. The impression he gave was that that was pretty normal.
    So years ago, I was out clay pigeon shooting. We were walking back across the farmers fields, when a police car pulled up. It turned out to be a armed response vehicle. The rather portly lead officer greeted the farmer by name and asked him if he'd seen anyone wandering about suspiciously with firearms.

    At this point another police car pulled up and a very excited police officer leapt out. The resemblance to a Yorkie terrier about to get it's dinner was remarkable.

    It turned out that he'd seen the farmer carrying the two, broken, shotguns. Apparently, he was a town based policeman, and didn't realise that out in the country, someone walking across a field with a shotgun in the crook of their arm isn't a panic moment.

    It was funny at the time, but it makes me wonder now....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817

    Ladies & Gentlemen, I give you Scotland's "Solicitor of the Year, 2018 Lawyer of the Year 2017 and Former Rector University Glasgow ."

    Dear @pritipatel you have no jurisdiction in Scotland, keep your dawn raids to yourself, we intend to demolish your barbaric policies & look forward to welcoming you soon

    https://twitter.com/AamerAnwar/status/1396912671749033995?s=20

    2017 and 2018 were thin years....
    The breakdown of the rule of law in Scotland whether it is from idiotic and utterly incomprehensible (even to a lawyer) Covid legislation that everyone thinks they have the right to comply with or not, the disregard of our immigration rules and political laws such as the hate crime legislation is deeply troubling. That that breakdown is supported by those in positions of authority is even more so.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Scott_xP said:

    Playbook scoop

    WhatsApp messages show that — while he was in charge of No. 10 in March 2020 — Dominic Cummings privately ordered senior Cabinet ministers to deny that herd immunity was ever government policy


    https://politi.co/3svJcDk https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1397439859397210112/photo/1

    So Cummings as all powerful Chief of staff instructs Cabinet Minister to simply deny discussion/policy of “herd immunity” (a phrase he probably did a lot of briefing on to the extent that it became toxic beyond its basic meaning). And then having set the whole thing up, he tries to then use those same denials as a rock upon which to criticise those same ministers. Nice!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Re: discussions about wallpaper. Aren’t people overlooking that this is an appearance before the Health Select committee to talk about the Govt’s Covid response? It’s not “any questions with Dominic Cummings”

    I actually discussed this with my friend last night.

    Dom Cummings: The PM was distracted at the start of the pandemic with writing a book to pay his divorce bill and obsessing with the refurbishment of the Downing Street flat and who paid for it.

    That allows the Health Select Committee to legitimately discuss the wallpaper/refurbishment today.
    But I’m not sure why they would even want to? Firstly it just discredits their efforts to conduct a serious investigation. And secondly, isn’t the conventional wisdom now that obsessing for days over wallpaper actually did as much damage to his opponents as it did to Johnson?
    It might be Dom that drops it in and mentions the name of the donor, it won't be the major focus of the appearance but a small part that will keep the media happy for days.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,433
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Piers Morgan asks Kier Starmer if he’s taken drugs 14 times but he refuses to answer

    The Labour leader squirmed during a grilling sparked by claims he was a “party animal” at university.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tv/15066704/piers-morgan-keir-starmer-drugs-life-stories/

    Its such a silly approach, just say yes....Nobody is going to give a monkeys if you had a cheeky smoke 40 years ago.

    There used to be a R5 show, was it Pienaar which asked a regular series of questions to the MP of week who was the guest and it was always have you done drugs. I remember some Tory, just said yes, of course, and next week Stephen Kinnock came on and did a Starmer.

    FFS. Why doesn't he just say he was one for the doobage?
    Many people his age were. It makes him more relatable, and, arguably, interesting.
    Who the heck is advising him?
    Edit. I see you said pretty much the same in the extended remix of your post. I replied to the radio play single.
    All bloody baffling.
    One theory I've heard about politicians not wanting to admit to past drug use is that they have children who are teenagers/students and they don't want to give them a free pass to do drugs because mummy or daddy publicly admitted to doing the wacky baccy or something stronger when they were students.
    You've got two choices when asked this sort of question as a politician. Either you can give witty answer, or an honest one.
    This is Boris' advantage over Starmer.
    My answer would be that I've never taken drugs, I was too scared of dying don't need to take drugs to have a good time.

    Very few people who know me would call me boring.
    I never did drugs when I was younger.

    Besides which I had plenty of fun with alcohol
    Er......

    Yeah yeah, I know.. alcohol is a "drug".

    But we all know it's not what we mean when we're talking about drugs. What we mean is cannabis, ecstasy, cocaine, heroine etc.

    That's what we mean by drugs. Narcotics you smoke, sniff, inhail or inject.
    Heroines are a drug? Well, of a sort. They are certainly pretty addictive.
    It's this sort of pedantry that makes pb what it is.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Sandpit said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I wonder how many members and how many millions in donations they lost, before the big man’s job became untenable?
    What I don't understand is that Parker is described as 'bourgeois' as well as 'woke'.
    I think I'm reasonably woke, in that I think we ought to be aware of the warts as well the high points in our history, but, TBH, I though being 'bourgeois was what the Trust was all about!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    There's a moment in the US House of Cards when Frank Underwood walks across to a homeless man who is railing against the Government, crouches down and whispers to him, 'no-one's listening. No-one cares.'

    Sorry, Dom. No-one's listening. No-one cares.

    I think you might enjoy this as much as I am

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9618429/National-Trust-chairman-QUITS-amid-revolt-woke-policies.html
    I'm really pleased about this. A win.

    NT quote in the article: "What the National Trust needs now is a chair with a deep understanding and appreciation of our nation's heritage."
    I am over the moon. Someone at last is saying enough of this woke Shittery.l
    Yes. The purpose of history in this country should not be to look critically at our past, it should be a hagiography to induce patriotism in the middle classes.
    Bollocks. Our History is our history. This is not some Orwellian 1984 world. It happened. Rewriting or hiding or removing evidence of it will not alter the fact that it happened,. Shameful tho it was. It happened.
    Glad to hear that you are supportive of the displays on how slave plantations funded many NT properties.
    It’s always a question of balance. The source of the wealth is part of the story and shouldn’t be glossed over (and neither should the efforts of many to combat it).

    But the NT is thoughtless. In their LGBT campaign, for example, they outed a cousin of a friend of mine who was almost certainly gay but intensely private and chose not to disclose his sexuality in his lifetime. What gave the NT the right to (a) assume and (b) prominently disclose that fact?
    What the fuck is the NT doing having a LGBT campaign in the first place?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817

    Starmer is obviously wise not to admit to taking illegal substances, given his career history. He has anticipated the potential headlines:

    Sheer hypocrisy: DPP and Head of CPS admits criminal offences while jailing thousands for similar offences.

    Best avoided by a non-answer. He's not in the same position as politicians with a different hinterland.

    I think that's fair. But it was an opportunity to discuss the madness of our drugs policy and its terrible effect on our society.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    65/ First sketch of Plan B, PM study, Fri 13/3 eve - shown PM Sat 14/4: NB. Plan A 'our plan' breaks NHS,>4k p/day dead min.Plan B: lockdown, suppress, crash programs (tests/treatments/vaccines etc), escape 1st AND 2nd wave (squiggly line instead of 1 or 2 peaks)... details later https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1397452170249842691/photo/1


  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Can anyone explain the difference between 'minimise travel' and 'avoid non-essential travel?

    Either way, I've got a sound reason not to visit my brothers in law.

    Thanks to Boris! Can he rely on your vote?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,255

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    The media have stopped caring about Sasha Johnson, now that it’s just another black gang shooting...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/25/people-dragged-sasha-johnsons-shooting-culture-wars-should-ashamed/

    Yet the media prominence that Johnson’s shooting received yesterday morning, accompanied by pictures of her holding up the Black Panther fist, showed just how influential, and dangerous, such a narrative could be. With a little more ambiguity from the police, Abbott’s presumptions would have been allowed to fester throughout the week, wrongly convincing people before any corroboration that Britain had descended into racial warfare.

    That thankfully was avoided, just, and now it is telling how quickly the story has fallen off the agenda. There isn’t much media appetite for another unfortunate black shooting. There isn’t much time in activist circles, either, for the introspection required to tackle the epidemic of violent crime in black areas. We are left in a doom cycle, where people prefer to debate how racist imperial measurements are than discuss these existential issues.

    There isn’t much hope at the moment for that black schoolboy in Peckham.

    Plainly there is horrible racism and a cruel indifference as to the consequences of their actions as seen in the Floyd case itself but policing communities that are so riddled and afflicted with gun violence where ending up shot as a bystander because you went to a party has its challenges.

    Is it racist to suggest police in such an environment are likely to draw their guns and resort to lethal force more quickly than they might in a white, middle class area? Is it even perhaps understandable that police officers might be frightened going into such an environment and resent that fear blaming the community that generates it?

    What is the chicken and what is the egg?
    And how the hell have we got to the point where gang violence has exploded in London in the past few years?
    "police in such an environment are likely to draw their guns and resort to lethal force more quickly than they might in a white, middle class area"

    The evidence is that the police, in the UK, rarely *draw* firearms. Let alone actual use them.

    The lady who was shot espoused "defund the police". After some digging - it is curious how the UK demands of BLM are not articulated beyond the slogans - it turns out to include ending Operation Trident. Which is the specialist operation dealing with gang shootings. Not just in the Black community - it's remit was expanded.

    Interestingly, Trident isn't an American style commando unit jumping through peoples windows in Ninja wear. It includes a major amount of community out reach. Including working with Grime artists to try and influence people away from violence.

    Isn't this the kind of stuff we need?
    I suspect if you're black and living in inner London you get stopped by the police all the time.

    It happened to me as a 17-year old driving my car when I was with my mates over 20 years ago and I still remember how irritated I was about it then today - the officer checked absolutely everything (tyres, licence, insurance, lights etc) trying to find something to do me for. He just didn't like a few lads out driving at 11pm and assumed we were yobs or dealers up to something. We actually just liked driving to music, going on a road trip, and discussing how bad our failures with girls were.

    He finished by saying, "I just like to know what's going on in my area", and then left.

    That said.. I don't doubt that there would have been groups of lads (at times) up to no good that looked like us too.

    It's difficult. It always feels personal.
    Yes - the police stop certain ethnic minorities far more than their proportion in the overall population.

    The old PTA in the 80s etc

    It's been a few years, but when I was going out with a Ghanian lady, she got stopped in her ML a remarkable number of times.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    ...
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    In his first comments on forcing the Ryanair jet to land, Lukashenko says the “bomb threat” came from Switzerland – that noted hotbed of Hamas activity

    https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1397453197103480837?s=20

    What’s particularly mysterious is Lukashenko’s belief that producing some fig leaf of a story to try to validate the legitimacy of the “bomb threat” somehow gives cover for everything that happened afterwards. I suppose leaders in the modern divisive world (from Trump to Lukashenko to Putin) have discovered that the only thing that matters is that their supporters and media lapdogs have a story to cling to, regardless of how ridiculous or relevant it is.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited May 2021

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    The media have stopped caring about Sasha Johnson, now that it’s just another black gang shooting...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/25/people-dragged-sasha-johnsons-shooting-culture-wars-should-ashamed/

    Yet the media prominence that Johnson’s shooting received yesterday morning, accompanied by pictures of her holding up the Black Panther fist, showed just how influential, and dangerous, such a narrative could be. With a little more ambiguity from the police, Abbott’s presumptions would have been allowed to fester throughout the week, wrongly convincing people before any corroboration that Britain had descended into racial warfare.

    That thankfully was avoided, just, and now it is telling how quickly the story has fallen off the agenda. There isn’t much media appetite for another unfortunate black shooting. There isn’t much time in activist circles, either, for the introspection required to tackle the epidemic of violent crime in black areas. We are left in a doom cycle, where people prefer to debate how racist imperial measurements are than discuss these existential issues.

    There isn’t much hope at the moment for that black schoolboy in Peckham.

    Plainly there is horrible racism and a cruel indifference as to the consequences of their actions as seen in the Floyd case itself but policing communities that are so riddled and afflicted with gun violence where ending up shot as a bystander because you went to a party has its challenges.

    Is it racist to suggest police in such an environment are likely to draw their guns and resort to lethal force more quickly than they might in a white, middle class area? Is it even perhaps understandable that police officers might be frightened going into such an environment and resent that fear blaming the community that generates it?

    What is the chicken and what is the egg?
    And how the hell have we got to the point where gang violence has exploded in London in the past few years?
    "police in such an environment are likely to draw their guns and resort to lethal force more quickly than they might in a white, middle class area"

    The evidence is that the police, in the UK, rarely *draw* firearms. Let alone actual use them.

    The lady who was shot espoused "defund the police". After some digging - it is curious how the UK demands of BLM are not articulated beyond the slogans - it turns out to include ending Operation Trident. Which is the specialist operation dealing with gang shootings. Not just in the Black community - it's remit was expanded.

    Interestingly, Trident isn't an American style commando unit jumping through peoples windows in Ninja wear. It includes a major amount of community out reach. Including working with Grime artists to try and influence people away from violence.

    Isn't this the kind of stuff we need?
    I suspect if you're black and living in inner London you get stopped by the police all the time.

    It happened to me as a 17-year old driving my car when I was with my mates over 20 years ago and I still remember how irritated I was about it then today - the officer checked absolutely everything (tyres, licence, insurance, lights etc) trying to find something to do me for. He just didn't like a few lads out driving at 11pm and assumed we were yobs or dealers up to something. We actually just liked driving to music, going on a road trip, and discussing how bad our failures with girls were.

    He finished by saying, "I just like to know what's going on in my area", and then left.

    That said.. I don't doubt that there would have been groups of lads (at times) up to no good that looked like us too.

    It's difficult. It always feels personal.
    Absolutely. Two relevant points:

    1. When the Graun, of all papers, went out on the streets of South London to see whether the series Top Boy was authentic the responses were (wrt the main activity taking part in a street market) that the one unbelievable element was that black youths would not have been able to walk down the street for more than 20 yards without being stopped by the police.

    2. If you look at the various analyses of the London riots you will see time and again that much of it was motivated by payback for all the stop and searches done. Rightly or wrongly, that was a critical if not the major motivating factor by the initial rioters.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    DavidL said:

    Ladies & Gentlemen, I give you Scotland's "Solicitor of the Year, 2018 Lawyer of the Year 2017 and Former Rector University Glasgow ."

    Dear @pritipatel you have no jurisdiction in Scotland, keep your dawn raids to yourself, we intend to demolish your barbaric policies & look forward to welcoming you soon

    https://twitter.com/AamerAnwar/status/1396912671749033995?s=20

    2017 and 2018 were thin years....
    The breakdown of the rule of law in Scotland whether it is from idiotic and utterly incomprehensible (even to a lawyer) Covid legislation that everyone thinks they have the right to comply with or not, the disregard of our immigration rules and political laws such as the hate crime legislation is deeply troubling. That that breakdown is supported by those in positions of authority is even more so.
    The once high regard within which the Scottish legal system was once held has taken a mighty knock, for sure. I guess the SNP will say the only way to restore it will be by independence.

    Well, it's a view.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Scott_xP said:

    65/ First sketch of Plan B, PM study, Fri 13/3 eve - shown PM Sat 14/4: NB. Plan A 'our plan' breaks NHS,>4k p/day dead min.Plan B: lockdown, suppress, crash programs (tests/treatments/vaccines etc), escape 1st AND 2nd wave (squiggly line instead of 1 or 2 peaks)... details later https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1397452170249842691/photo/1


    That’s pretty much exactly what we were all discussing on here at the time.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:
    I know Judgemeadow. Best state school in Leicester in results terms.

    Nice to see kids taking an interest in politics.
    Yes, and defying the modern English trend against religious belief. How quaint
    Well, some people are stunningly fucking naive.

    We do not expect to see placard waving mobs howling Allahu Akbar stomping through schools in this country. Nothing good will come of it.
    That’s a hostile environment for white Christian I guess
    0.1% Jewish population at the last census.

    http://evington.localstats.co.uk/census-demographics/england/east-midlands/leicester/evington
    Leicester has a small Jewish community, mostly in Stoneygate on the border with Evington.

    I know Judgemeadow school, indeed used to do a yoga class there, it is a good school and a number of my colleagues have had children there. I would have been happy for Fox Jr to go there, though he went to the next door Beauchamp College, which also had a small student protest.

    I think both schools behaved quite appropriately in response, permitting peaceful protest in break time, and enabling discussion of other perspectives.

    https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/pupils-leicester-secondary-school-stand-5456485?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
    One way of putting it.

    I'm sure the Easter celebrations look very similar.
    Not sure what your point is. A protest in favour of a Free Palestine is not the same as a religious festival.

    Fox Jr did RE, and they covered all religious festivals fairly, including Easter, Passover and Purim, and visited Leicesters Synagogue and Churches. He got an A* at GCSE in it.
    All the angry, loud religious chanting sets my alarm bells ringing.

    "Nasty, brutish and short" - definition...

    1. The pathway to Islamist radicalisation
    2.1 The lives of people like me who are unfortunate enough to find ourselves in places where people like that run the show
    2.2 The drop from the top of the tall building to the pavement below
    Off topic, but in response to your post

    Is this the definitive Thomas Hobbes analysis of Islam? 2.2 is somewhat obtuse.
    I think he’s referring to Islamic radicals’ policy on LGBT matters
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Colleague just messaged me to tell me that his flights to / from Spain in late June / early July with EasyJet have been cancelled

    They will not seek alternatives and will rebook something in the UK - if they can
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