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January 6th is what some Republican congressmen are now calling a “tourist visit” – politicalbetting

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Comments

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    edited May 2021

    I see the people who were having a hernia at Merkel mentioning the British virus are also prolapsing at Sturgeon not using the term Indian variant. A permanent truss (surgical not tory) to keep everything tucked in might be a wise move.

    I have no problem with her not using the term Indian variant.

    It does beg the term why she does use the term Kent variant though.
    Off the top of my head, Scotland and particularly Glasgow has a large community, in fact several large communities, from the Indian sub continent who already suffer a good deal of prejudice, especially from the large community who likes to wave about UJs.
    The Kent community is non existent.

    Though there does seem to be some recent embracing of diversity from the UJ waving community.

    https://twitter.com/Govanemeraldcsc/status/1394200108665876484?s=20

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    GMB has interviewed a lady who says she was too scared to leave the house because of the new variant

    Dozy muppet was interviewed in a high street .........

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    Fair point.

    Kraft "cheese" and stuff like that probably doesn't do America's reputation much good. 😂
    Like culture, the US exports the lowest common denominator, and keeps the good stuff for itself. Anyone who has been to New York City (or and of the large cities) and said "the food is shit here" probably spent whole trip in a hospital.
    American food is rather like British food. Has a mediocre reputation worldwide, but in many big coastal cities you can get fantastic, innovative restaurant food, there's a great array of foreign cuisines, and in the first order cities - New York, LA (London in the UK) - the food can be some of the best in the world. America also has stand-out smaller food cities like New Orleans, which are as good as the best in Europe

    Where America does fall down is in the flyover country, where you can drive for 100 miles and the only choice is fast food, literally. DAIRY QUEENS

    And don't get me on to the cheese or charcuterie selection in, say, a Walmart in Mississippi. UGH
    Yes, America is somewhat of a paradox. It is easy to eat well and healthily, but baffingly expensive. I always remember a friend visiting from the Bay Area and telling me that the almonds in Sainsbury's were half price what they are in his local Safeway BUT THEY WERE GROWN IN CALIFORNIA.
    Milk...milk in the US is really expensive...they have masses of land and cows.... like how it is so expensive...
    Perhaps they pay the going rate for it. In the UK milk is so cheap that nobody makes any money - and many make a loss.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    I have a friend who - and you can know someone for 20 years and still be finding things out about them - it turns out is a massive fan of really top quality beef. He insists on American beef - reckons it far superior to British in almost all circumstances.
    British meat is relatively shit.

    I don't know why. But it is. Maybe its the lack of sunshine, maybe its in your head, but go to Australia, or America and the meat there just tastes better. My wife is from South Africa and she says the same thing, when she moved to the UK she stopped eating meat for a while, not because of any 'vegetarian' reason but because it was so disappointing compared to what she was used to in South Africa.

    If British and Aussie meat was available at the same price next to each other in a supermarket, I'd be very tempted to go for the latter.
    I haven't done a scientific study of this but I tend to agree. I think the UK meat tends to a higher fat content, possibly because our lousy climate encourages that in the animals and our smaller fields means they don't move around as much. Leaner, firmer beef is better in the same way that free range chicken tastes much better than factory farmed.
    That's actually a really good explanation! It makes sense.
    Scott_xP said:

    When I lived in the US, the best steak I could buy locally was from Whole Foods.

    Argentinian...

    Until they stopped importing it.

    Yes! I can finally agree with you on something!

    Argentina is another nation that does meat really well - and Argentinian Malbec is great too.

    Another nation I'd like to see a zero tariff, zero quota deal with.
    it's not a good explanation at all. It is simply 100% wrong. Great marbling of fat makes for great flavoursome beef. This is a known culinary fact.



    "The presence of marbling has an extremely positive effect on the eating quality of beef, in terms of tenderness, juiciness/moisture and flavour.

    "The fat makes the meat softer and easier to chew, as there is simply less muscle fibre and collagen per unit volume of meat. This decreases the amount of chewing required, leading to a more rapid breakdown of the food, and greater flavour release.

    "A small study also found that when specifically Wagyu and Angus steaks had more than 10 per cent intramuscular fat, the steak had significantly higher Flavour Volatiles – a measure of the taste intensity."

    https://steakschool.com/learn/beef-marbling-everything-you-need-to-know/
    Correct. See also making burgers. You want 20-30% fat mince for those. Very hard to find in supermarkets because of our stupid obsession with avoiding animal fat (sugar makes you fat, fat doesn’t make you fat).

    I get mine from the butcher, roll in garlic herb butter inside the patty.

    Never understand people paying loads of money for "gourmet" burgers from the supermarket...just buy decent mince, egg, herbs, jobs a good'un....
    I don’t even use eggs in mine. Just a 20-30% chuck mince, make a garlic herb butter to add inside the patty, then BBQ - serve with salad, frenchies and Reggae Reggae sauce in a brioche bun.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive:

    BBC could be forced to appoint a new editorial board in wake of Martin Bashir scandal

    Ministers sympathetic to proposals by Lord Grade, former BBC director general, for board of editors & senior journalists to deal with complaints


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0ddf7e30-ba21-11eb-98e3-d1306649ebf7?shareToken=6646e2a29ff884bed25d215196991e6e

    They need to hire a director of better

    Oh, please, no, don't even suggest such a thing. They will have a director of better on £400k a year before you can blink. And it won't be, it really won't.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Leon said:

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    Fair point.

    Kraft "cheese" and stuff like that probably doesn't do America's reputation much good. 😂
    Like culture, the US exports the lowest common denominator, and keeps the good stuff for itself. Anyone who has been to New York City (or and of the large cities) and said "the food is shit here" probably spent whole trip in a hospital.
    American food is rather like British food. Has a mediocre reputation worldwide, but in many big coastal cities you can get fantastic, innovative restaurant food, there's a great array of foreign cuisines, and in the first order cities - New York, LA (London in the UK) - the food can be some of the best in the world. America also has stand-out smaller food cities like New Orleans, which are as good as the best in Europe

    Where America does fall down is in the flyover country, where you can drive for 100 miles and the only choice is fast food, literally. DAIRY QUEENS

    And don't get me on to the cheese or charcuterie selection in, say, a Walmart in Mississippi. UGH
    Yes, America is somewhat of a paradox. It is easy to eat well and healthily on the coasts, but baffingly expensive. I always remember a friend visiting from the Bay Area and telling me that the almonds in Sainsbury's were half price what they are in his local Safeway BUT THEY WERE GROWN IN CALIFORNIA.

    And on Manhattan, where there are no supermarkets except about one Trader Joe's, it's even worse. I met another friend in New York once who was studying at NYU and he told me he'd get together with a few other students and get a cab to the nearest Costco and back ($70-$80) and do his food shopping there rather than pay bodega prices.
    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day
    I found the morning market was great for basically everything, but you have to get stuff every couple of days, you can't do big shops as you would in the UK.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    Fair point.

    Kraft "cheese" and stuff like that probably doesn't do America's reputation much good. 😂
    Like culture, the US exports the lowest common denominator, and keeps the good stuff for itself. Anyone who has been to New York City (or and of the large cities) and said "the food is shit here" probably spent whole trip in a hospital.
    American food is rather like British food. Has a mediocre reputation worldwide, but in many big coastal cities you can get fantastic, innovative restaurant food, there's a great array of foreign cuisines, and in the first order cities - New York, LA (London in the UK) - the food can be some of the best in the world. America also has stand-out smaller food cities like New Orleans, which are as good as the best in Europe

    Where America does fall down is in the flyover country, where you can drive for 100 miles and the only choice is fast food, literally. DAIRY QUEENS

    And don't get me on to the cheese or charcuterie selection in, say, a Walmart in Mississippi. UGH
    Yes, America is somewhat of a paradox. It is easy to eat well and healthily, but baffingly expensive. I always remember a friend visiting from the Bay Area and telling me that the almonds in Sainsbury's were half price what they are in his local Safeway BUT THEY WERE GROWN IN CALIFORNIA.
    Milk...milk in the US is really expensive...they have masses of land and cows.... like how it is so expensive...
    Perhaps they pay the going rate for it. In the UK milk is so cheap that nobody makes any money - and many make a loss.
    Its like 4x the price in the US...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Yeah but when you get a Mac attack you need a Big Mac.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    I have a friend who - and you can know someone for 20 years and still be finding things out about them - it turns out is a massive fan of really top quality beef. He insists on American beef - reckons it far superior to British in almost all circumstances.
    British meat is relatively shit.

    I don't know why. But it is. Maybe its the lack of sunshine, maybe its in your head, but go to Australia, or America and the meat there just tastes better. My wife is from South Africa and she says the same thing, when she moved to the UK she stopped eating meat for a while, not because of any 'vegetarian' reason but because it was so disappointing compared to what she was used to in South Africa.

    If British and Aussie meat was available at the same price next to each other in a supermarket, I'd be very tempted to go for the latter.
    I haven't done a scientific study of this but I tend to agree. I think the UK meat tends to a higher fat content, possibly because our lousy climate encourages that in the animals and our smaller fields means they don't move around as much. Leaner, firmer beef is better in the same way that free range chicken tastes much better than factory farmed.
    That's actually a really good explanation! It makes sense.
    Scott_xP said:

    When I lived in the US, the best steak I could buy locally was from Whole Foods.

    Argentinian...

    Until they stopped importing it.

    Yes! I can finally agree with you on something!

    Argentina is another nation that does meat really well - and Argentinian Malbec is great too.

    Another nation I'd like to see a zero tariff, zero quota deal with.
    it's not a good explanation at all. It is simply 100% wrong. Great marbling of fat makes for great flavoursome beef. This is a known culinary fact.



    "The presence of marbling has an extremely positive effect on the eating quality of beef, in terms of tenderness, juiciness/moisture and flavour.

    "The fat makes the meat softer and easier to chew, as there is simply less muscle fibre and collagen per unit volume of meat. This decreases the amount of chewing required, leading to a more rapid breakdown of the food, and greater flavour release.

    "A small study also found that when specifically Wagyu and Angus steaks had more than 10 per cent intramuscular fat, the steak had significantly higher Flavour Volatiles – a measure of the taste intensity."

    https://steakschool.com/learn/beef-marbling-everything-you-need-to-know/
    Correct. See also making burgers. You want 20-30% fat mince for those. Very hard to find in supermarkets because of our stupid obsession with avoiding animal fat (sugar makes you fat, fat doesn’t make you fat).

    I get mine from the butcher, roll in garlic herb butter inside the patty.

    Never understand people paying loads of money for "gourmet" burgers from the supermarket...just buy decent mince, egg, herbs, jobs a good'un....
    I don’t even use eggs in mine. Just a 20-30% chuck mince, make a garlic herb butter to add inside the patty, then BBQ - serve with salad, frenchies and Reggae Reggae sauce in a brioche bun.
    And that will be £29.95 in a restaurant in London....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Leon said:

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    Fair point.

    Kraft "cheese" and stuff like that probably doesn't do America's reputation much good. 😂
    Like culture, the US exports the lowest common denominator, and keeps the good stuff for itself. Anyone who has been to New York City (or and of the large cities) and said "the food is shit here" probably spent whole trip in a hospital.
    American food is rather like British food. Has a mediocre reputation worldwide, but in many big coastal cities you can get fantastic, innovative restaurant food, there's a great array of foreign cuisines, and in the first order cities - New York, LA (London in the UK) - the food can be some of the best in the world. America also has stand-out smaller food cities like New Orleans, which are as good as the best in Europe

    Where America does fall down is in the flyover country, where you can drive for 100 miles and the only choice is fast food, literally. DAIRY QUEENS

    And don't get me on to the cheese or charcuterie selection in, say, a Walmart in Mississippi. UGH
    Yes, America is somewhat of a paradox. It is easy to eat well and healthily on the coasts, but baffingly expensive. I always remember a friend visiting from the Bay Area and telling me that the almonds in Sainsbury's were half price what they are in his local Safeway BUT THEY WERE GROWN IN CALIFORNIA.

    And on Manhattan, where there are no supermarkets except about one Trader Joe's, it's even worse. I met another friend in New York once who was studying at NYU and he told me he'd get together with a few other students and get a cab to the nearest Costco and back ($70-$80) and do his food shopping there rather than pay bodega prices.
    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day
    I have been to good supermarkets in Italian cities, but they are in the suburbs, including in Milan.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    I have a friend who - and you can know someone for 20 years and still be finding things out about them - it turns out is a massive fan of really top quality beef. He insists on American beef - reckons it far superior to British in almost all circumstances.
    British meat is relatively shit.

    I don't know why. But it is. Maybe its the lack of sunshine, maybe its in your head, but go to Australia, or America and the meat there just tastes better. My wife is from South Africa and she says the same thing, when she moved to the UK she stopped eating meat for a while, not because of any 'vegetarian' reason but because it was so disappointing compared to what she was used to in South Africa.

    If British and Aussie meat was available at the same price next to each other in a supermarket, I'd be very tempted to go for the latter.
    I haven't done a scientific study of this but I tend to agree. I think the UK meat tends to a higher fat content, possibly because our lousy climate encourages that in the animals and our smaller fields means they don't move around as much. Leaner, firmer beef is better in the same way that free range chicken tastes much better than factory farmed.
    That's actually a really good explanation! It makes sense.
    Scott_xP said:

    When I lived in the US, the best steak I could buy locally was from Whole Foods.

    Argentinian...

    Until they stopped importing it.

    Yes! I can finally agree with you on something!

    Argentina is another nation that does meat really well - and Argentinian Malbec is great too.

    Another nation I'd like to see a zero tariff, zero quota deal with.
    it's not a good explanation at all. It is simply 100% wrong. Great marbling of fat makes for great flavoursome beef. This is a known culinary fact.



    "The presence of marbling has an extremely positive effect on the eating quality of beef, in terms of tenderness, juiciness/moisture and flavour.

    "The fat makes the meat softer and easier to chew, as there is simply less muscle fibre and collagen per unit volume of meat. This decreases the amount of chewing required, leading to a more rapid breakdown of the food, and greater flavour release.

    "A small study also found that when specifically Wagyu and Angus steaks had more than 10 per cent intramuscular fat, the steak had significantly higher Flavour Volatiles – a measure of the taste intensity."

    https://steakschool.com/learn/beef-marbling-everything-you-need-to-know/
    Correct. See also making burgers. You want 20-30% fat mince for those. Very hard to find in supermarkets because of our stupid obsession with avoiding animal fat (sugar makes you fat, fat doesn’t make you fat).

    I get mine from the butcher, roll in garlic herb butter inside the patty.

    Never understand people paying loads of money for "gourmet" burgers from the supermarket...just buy decent mince, egg, herbs, jobs a good'un....
    I don’t even use eggs in mine. Just a 20-30% chuck mince, make a garlic herb butter to add inside the patty, then BBQ - serve with salad, frenchies and Reggae Reggae sauce in a brioche bun.
    I've been mastering the honey mustard glaze for my burgers, it's an incredible addition. Try it.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    kinabalu said:

    I see the people who were having a hernia at Merkel mentioning the British virus are also prolapsing at Sturgeon not using the term Indian variant. A permanent truss (surgical not tory) to keep everything tucked in might be a wise move.

    I have no problem with her not using the term Indian variant.

    It does beg the term why she does use the term Kent variant though.
    Is there a Kentish community in Scotland?
    Is their an Indian community? Aren't they all Scots?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    Fair point.

    Kraft "cheese" and stuff like that probably doesn't do America's reputation much good. 😂
    Like culture, the US exports the lowest common denominator, and keeps the good stuff for itself. Anyone who has been to New York City (or and of the large cities) and said "the food is shit here" probably spent whole trip in a hospital.
    American food is rather like British food. Has a mediocre reputation worldwide, but in many big coastal cities you can get fantastic, innovative restaurant food, there's a great array of foreign cuisines, and in the first order cities - New York, LA (London in the UK) - the food can be some of the best in the world. America also has stand-out smaller food cities like New Orleans, which are as good as the best in Europe

    Where America does fall down is in the flyover country, where you can drive for 100 miles and the only choice is fast food, literally. DAIRY QUEENS

    And don't get me on to the cheese or charcuterie selection in, say, a Walmart in Mississippi. UGH
    I lived and worked in Boulder, Colorado for a few months during 2011, and I was actually surprised to find decent vegetarian food to take-away or eat-in over there (and several options to boot).
    Colorado is NOT flyover country. It's posh AF.
    Are you kidding? Boulder is like on the edge of the Rocky Mountains! HUNDREDS of miles from the nearest ocean!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    No date yet for the Batley & Spen by-election? Just had a 5 day holiday from using the internet and was expecting it to be set by now.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    I have a friend who - and you can know someone for 20 years and still be finding things out about them - it turns out is a massive fan of really top quality beef. He insists on American beef - reckons it far superior to British in almost all circumstances.
    British meat is relatively shit.

    I don't know why. But it is. Maybe its the lack of sunshine, maybe its in your head, but go to Australia, or America and the meat there just tastes better. My wife is from South Africa and she says the same thing, when she moved to the UK she stopped eating meat for a while, not because of any 'vegetarian' reason but because it was so disappointing compared to what she was used to in South Africa.

    If British and Aussie meat was available at the same price next to each other in a supermarket, I'd be very tempted to go for the latter.
    I haven't done a scientific study of this but I tend to agree. I think the UK meat tends to a higher fat content, possibly because our lousy climate encourages that in the animals and our smaller fields means they don't move around as much. Leaner, firmer beef is better in the same way that free range chicken tastes much better than factory farmed.
    You are absolutely wrong about fat content. Just backing up Leon here. That is the opposite of the truth.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    Fair point.

    Kraft "cheese" and stuff like that probably doesn't do America's reputation much good. 😂
    Like culture, the US exports the lowest common denominator, and keeps the good stuff for itself. Anyone who has been to New York City (or and of the large cities) and said "the food is shit here" probably spent whole trip in a hospital.
    American food is rather like British food. Has a mediocre reputation worldwide, but in many big coastal cities you can get fantastic, innovative restaurant food, there's a great array of foreign cuisines, and in the first order cities - New York, LA (London in the UK) - the food can be some of the best in the world. America also has stand-out smaller food cities like New Orleans, which are as good as the best in Europe

    Where America does fall down is in the flyover country, where you can drive for 100 miles and the only choice is fast food, literally. DAIRY QUEENS

    And don't get me on to the cheese or charcuterie selection in, say, a Walmart in Mississippi. UGH
    Yes, America is somewhat of a paradox. It is easy to eat well and healthily, but baffingly expensive. I always remember a friend visiting from the Bay Area and telling me that the almonds in Sainsbury's were half price what they are in his local Safeway BUT THEY WERE GROWN IN CALIFORNIA.
    Milk...milk in the US is really expensive...they have masses of land and cows.... like how it is so expensive...
    Perhaps they pay the going rate for it. In the UK milk is so cheap that nobody makes any money - and many make a loss.
    Its like 4x the price in the US...
    And that's with gigantic dairy subsidies.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    edited May 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    I have a friend who - and you can know someone for 20 years and still be finding things out about them - it turns out is a massive fan of really top quality beef. He insists on American beef - reckons it far superior to British in almost all circumstances.
    British meat is relatively shit.

    I don't know why. But it is. Maybe its the lack of sunshine, maybe its in your head, but go to Australia, or America and the meat there just tastes better. My wife is from South Africa and she says the same thing, when she moved to the UK she stopped eating meat for a while, not because of any 'vegetarian' reason but because it was so disappointing compared to what she was used to in South Africa.

    If British and Aussie meat was available at the same price next to each other in a supermarket, I'd be very tempted to go for the latter.
    I haven't done a scientific study of this but I tend to agree. I think the UK meat tends to a higher fat content, possibly because our lousy climate encourages that in the animals and our smaller fields means they don't move around as much. Leaner, firmer beef is better in the same way that free range chicken tastes much better than factory farmed.
    That's actually a really good explanation! It makes sense.
    Scott_xP said:

    When I lived in the US, the best steak I could buy locally was from Whole Foods.

    Argentinian...

    Until they stopped importing it.

    Yes! I can finally agree with you on something!

    Argentina is another nation that does meat really well - and Argentinian Malbec is great too.

    Another nation I'd like to see a zero tariff, zero quota deal with.
    it's not a good explanation at all. It is simply 100% wrong. Great marbling of fat makes for great flavoursome beef. This is a known culinary fact.



    "The presence of marbling has an extremely positive effect on the eating quality of beef, in terms of tenderness, juiciness/moisture and flavour.

    "The fat makes the meat softer and easier to chew, as there is simply less muscle fibre and collagen per unit volume of meat. This decreases the amount of chewing required, leading to a more rapid breakdown of the food, and greater flavour release.

    "A small study also found that when specifically Wagyu and Angus steaks had more than 10 per cent intramuscular fat, the steak had significantly higher Flavour Volatiles – a measure of the taste intensity."

    https://steakschool.com/learn/beef-marbling-everything-you-need-to-know/
    Correct. See also making burgers. You want 20-30% fat mince for those. Very hard to find in supermarkets because of our stupid obsession with avoiding animal fat (sugar makes you fat, fat doesn’t make you fat).

    I get mine from the butcher, roll in garlic herb butter inside the patty.

    Never understand people paying loads of money for "gourmet" burgers from the supermarket...just buy decent mince, egg, herbs, jobs a good'un....
    I don’t even use eggs in mine. Just a 20-30% chuck mince, make a garlic herb butter to add inside the patty, then BBQ - serve with salad, frenchies and Reggae Reggae sauce in a brioche bun.
    I've been mastering the honey mustard glaze for my burgers, it's an incredible addition. Try it.
    Purist myself. Just the meat (80/20). If you want to be fancy and give it a Middle Eastern flavour, mix diced garlic and allspice in with the meat before forming the patties.

    Upgrade to a kaiser roll, smeared with olive oil and toasted on the charcoal.
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    Fair point.

    Kraft "cheese" and stuff like that probably doesn't do America's reputation much good. 😂
    Like culture, the US exports the lowest common denominator, and keeps the good stuff for itself. Anyone who has been to New York City (or and of the large cities) and said "the food is shit here" probably spent whole trip in a hospital.
    American food is rather like British food. Has a mediocre reputation worldwide, but in many big coastal cities you can get fantastic, innovative restaurant food, there's a great array of foreign cuisines, and in the first order cities - New York, LA (London in the UK) - the food can be some of the best in the world. America also has stand-out smaller food cities like New Orleans, which are as good as the best in Europe

    Where America does fall down is in the flyover country, where you can drive for 100 miles and the only choice is fast food, literally. DAIRY QUEENS

    And don't get me on to the cheese or charcuterie selection in, say, a Walmart in Mississippi. UGH
    I lived and worked in Boulder, Colorado for a few months during 2011, and I was actually surprised to find decent vegetarian food to take-away or eat-in over there (and several options to boot).
    Colorado is NOT flyover country. It's posh AF.
    Especially past 10-15 years, hoards of people with money moved there. Arizona, Texas and Colorado is where all the pissed off people of California are moving.

    The question is will we see this post pandemic of people from London and which areas? I imagine Wiltshire and Somerset, as still easy to get to London.
    The food in Cornwall has gone from generally poor to often-quite-brilliant in 20 years, and I am sure it is all the rich Londoners demanding proper tucker (plus our general British food revolution)

    There are other foodie hotspots developing around the country. Suffolk, Herefordshire, Ludlow, Skye, the Lakes...
    Hereford has a Waitrose so I guess “hotspot” is a synonym for “not as bad as it used to be”. Herefordshire is quite skinny on wealthy people and the number of CoOps indicates that food quality for the masses is broadly shit.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Son just rang me to say the PA of E.On's CEO has rung him this morning to let him know that whilst these complaints are usually handled by his team she had him read this one personally and he is taking a personal interest and is "upset" and "emotionally invested" in this case.

    Seeing it all written down the case against E.on is utterly shaming - but I am relieved beyond words that this now has senior management investiture.

    Once the top bod gets involved it swiftly becomes a “how can we make this up to you” scenario. Getting the CEO embarrassed by corporate bad behaviour causes earthquakes internally. Your son will now win.

    I hope so -this was the straw that was threatening to break the camels back
    Great to hear well done you and your efforts. Keep us posted. Your son has a good champion on his side.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    Fair point.

    Kraft "cheese" and stuff like that probably doesn't do America's reputation much good. 😂
    Like culture, the US exports the lowest common denominator, and keeps the good stuff for itself. Anyone who has been to New York City (or and of the large cities) and said "the food is shit here" probably spent whole trip in a hospital.
    American food is rather like British food. Has a mediocre reputation worldwide, but in many big coastal cities you can get fantastic, innovative restaurant food, there's a great array of foreign cuisines, and in the first order cities - New York, LA (London in the UK) - the food can be some of the best in the world. America also has stand-out smaller food cities like New Orleans, which are as good as the best in Europe

    Where America does fall down is in the flyover country, where you can drive for 100 miles and the only choice is fast food, literally. DAIRY QUEENS

    And don't get me on to the cheese or charcuterie selection in, say, a Walmart in Mississippi. UGH
    Yes, America is somewhat of a paradox. It is easy to eat well and healthily, but baffingly expensive. I always remember a friend visiting from the Bay Area and telling me that the almonds in Sainsbury's were half price what they are in his local Safeway BUT THEY WERE GROWN IN CALIFORNIA.
    Milk...milk in the US is really expensive...they have masses of land and cows.... like how it is so expensive...
    Perhaps they pay the going rate for it. In the UK milk is so cheap that nobody makes any money - and many make a loss.

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    Fair point.

    Kraft "cheese" and stuff like that probably doesn't do America's reputation much good. 😂
    Like culture, the US exports the lowest common denominator, and keeps the good stuff for itself. Anyone who has been to New York City (or and of the large cities) and said "the food is shit here" probably spent whole trip in a hospital.
    American food is rather like British food. Has a mediocre reputation worldwide, but in many big coastal cities you can get fantastic, innovative restaurant food, there's a great array of foreign cuisines, and in the first order cities - New York, LA (London in the UK) - the food can be some of the best in the world. America also has stand-out smaller food cities like New Orleans, which are as good as the best in Europe

    Where America does fall down is in the flyover country, where you can drive for 100 miles and the only choice is fast food, literally. DAIRY QUEENS

    And don't get me on to the cheese or charcuterie selection in, say, a Walmart in Mississippi. UGH
    Yes, America is somewhat of a paradox. It is easy to eat well and healthily, but baffingly expensive. I always remember a friend visiting from the Bay Area and telling me that the almonds in Sainsbury's were half price what they are in his local Safeway BUT THEY WERE GROWN IN CALIFORNIA.
    Milk...milk in the US is really expensive...they have masses of land and cows.... like how it is so expensive...
    Perhaps they pay the going rate for it. In the UK milk is so cheap that nobody makes any money - and many make a loss.
    Then maybe they should stop doing it?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    Fair point.

    Kraft "cheese" and stuff like that probably doesn't do America's reputation much good. 😂
    Like culture, the US exports the lowest common denominator, and keeps the good stuff for itself. Anyone who has been to New York City (or and of the large cities) and said "the food is shit here" probably spent whole trip in a hospital.
    American food is rather like British food. Has a mediocre reputation worldwide, but in many big coastal cities you can get fantastic, innovative restaurant food, there's a great array of foreign cuisines, and in the first order cities - New York, LA (London in the UK) - the food can be some of the best in the world. America also has stand-out smaller food cities like New Orleans, which are as good as the best in Europe

    Where America does fall down is in the flyover country, where you can drive for 100 miles and the only choice is fast food, literally. DAIRY QUEENS

    And don't get me on to the cheese or charcuterie selection in, say, a Walmart in Mississippi. UGH
    Yes, America is somewhat of a paradox. It is easy to eat well and healthily on the coasts, but baffingly expensive. I always remember a friend visiting from the Bay Area and telling me that the almonds in Sainsbury's were half price what they are in his local Safeway BUT THEY WERE GROWN IN CALIFORNIA.

    And on Manhattan, where there are no supermarkets except about one Trader Joe's, it's even worse. I met another friend in New York once who was studying at NYU and he told me he'd get together with a few other students and get a cab to the nearest Costco and back ($70-$80) and do his food shopping there rather than pay bodega prices.
    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day
    I found the morning market was great for basically everything, but you have to get stuff every couple of days, you can't do big shops as you would in the UK.
    Never land in Italy on a Sunday. Absolutely impossible to buy anything anywhere. Your only option is restaurants in much of the country.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    I have a friend who - and you can know someone for 20 years and still be finding things out about them - it turns out is a massive fan of really top quality beef. He insists on American beef - reckons it far superior to British in almost all circumstances.
    British meat is relatively shit.

    I don't know why. But it is. Maybe its the lack of sunshine, maybe its in your head, but go to Australia, or America and the meat there just tastes better. My wife is from South Africa and she says the same thing, when she moved to the UK she stopped eating meat for a while, not because of any 'vegetarian' reason but because it was so disappointing compared to what she was used to in South Africa.

    If British and Aussie meat was available at the same price next to each other in a supermarket, I'd be very tempted to go for the latter.
    I haven't done a scientific study of this but I tend to agree. I think the UK meat tends to a higher fat content, possibly because our lousy climate encourages that in the animals and our smaller fields means they don't move around as much. Leaner, firmer beef is better in the same way that free range chicken tastes much better than factory farmed.
    That's actually a really good explanation! It makes sense.
    Scott_xP said:

    When I lived in the US, the best steak I could buy locally was from Whole Foods.

    Argentinian...

    Until they stopped importing it.

    Yes! I can finally agree with you on something!

    Argentina is another nation that does meat really well - and Argentinian Malbec is great too.

    Another nation I'd like to see a zero tariff, zero quota deal with.
    it's not a good explanation at all. It is simply 100% wrong. Great marbling of fat makes for great flavoursome beef. This is a known culinary fact.



    "The presence of marbling has an extremely positive effect on the eating quality of beef, in terms of tenderness, juiciness/moisture and flavour.

    "The fat makes the meat softer and easier to chew, as there is simply less muscle fibre and collagen per unit volume of meat. This decreases the amount of chewing required, leading to a more rapid breakdown of the food, and greater flavour release.

    "A small study also found that when specifically Wagyu and Angus steaks had more than 10 per cent intramuscular fat, the steak had significantly higher Flavour Volatiles – a measure of the taste intensity."

    https://steakschool.com/learn/beef-marbling-everything-you-need-to-know/
    Correct. See also making burgers. You want 20-30% fat mince for those. Very hard to find in supermarkets because of our stupid obsession with avoiding animal fat (sugar makes you fat, fat doesn’t make you fat).

    I get mine from the butcher, roll in garlic herb butter inside the patty.

    Never understand people paying loads of money for "gourmet" burgers from the supermarket...just buy decent mince, egg, herbs, jobs a good'un....
    I don’t even use eggs in mine. Just a 20-30% chuck mince, make a garlic herb butter to add inside the patty, then BBQ - serve with salad, frenchies and Reggae Reggae sauce in a brioche bun.
    I've been mastering the honey mustard glaze for my burgers, it's an incredible addition. Try it.
    Purist myself. Just the meat (80/20). If you want to be fancy and give it a Middle Eastern flavour, mix diced garlic and allspice in with the meat before forming the patties.
    Yeah for the patty itself I'm fairly purist, 80/20 meat, a bit of kosher salt and a bit of white pepper cooked on a plancha (I managed to get one for £50 in a sale, it's 100% worth it). The glaze is post cooking, it's almost like a sauce but slightly sticky so brushed onto the patty.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    Fair point.

    Kraft "cheese" and stuff like that probably doesn't do America's reputation much good. 😂
    Like culture, the US exports the lowest common denominator, and keeps the good stuff for itself. Anyone who has been to New York City (or and of the large cities) and said "the food is shit here" probably spent whole trip in a hospital.
    American food is rather like British food. Has a mediocre reputation worldwide, but in many big coastal cities you can get fantastic, innovative restaurant food, there's a great array of foreign cuisines, and in the first order cities - New York, LA (London in the UK) - the food can be some of the best in the world. America also has stand-out smaller food cities like New Orleans, which are as good as the best in Europe

    Where America does fall down is in the flyover country, where you can drive for 100 miles and the only choice is fast food, literally. DAIRY QUEENS

    And don't get me on to the cheese or charcuterie selection in, say, a Walmart in Mississippi. UGH
    I lived and worked in Boulder, Colorado for a few months during 2011, and I was actually surprised to find decent vegetarian food to take-away or eat-in over there (and several options to boot).
    Colorado is NOT flyover country. It's posh AF.
    Especially past 10-15 years, hoards of people with money moved there. Arizona, Texas and Colorado is where all the pissed off people of California are moving.

    The question is will we see this post pandemic of people from London and which areas? I imagine Wiltshire and Somerset, as still easy to get to London.
    The food in Cornwall has gone from generally poor to often-quite-brilliant in 20 years, and I am sure it is all the rich Londoners demanding proper tucker (plus our general British food revolution)

    There are other foodie hotspots developing around the country. Suffolk, Herefordshire, Ludlow, Skye, the Lakes...
    Hereford has a Waitrose so I guess “hotspot” is a synonym for “not as bad as it used to be”. Herefordshire is quite skinny on wealthy people and the number of CoOps indicates that food quality for the masses is broadly shit.
    There are loads of gastropubs now. Often very good. The county is developing a food culture -as it should as the food quality is fine: Hereford beef, Hereford cider, apples and pears, artisan cheeses, etc

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    Is that the first time over 1% of population?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    Awesome numbers! Full steam ahead now.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    Charles said:

    Why does agriculture take up so much land? Perhaps you need land to grow soy to feed to cows to turn into burgers? Think about how much more efficient things would be if we concrete over the farms and turn them into nice office parks full of people mining Britcoin which we then use to buy food grown by foreign wasters happy to be inefficient.

    Yes, a sure way to a secure and prosperous future.

    Yep, the UK dedicates 71.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 0.61% of UK GDP.

    In contrast Sweden uses 6.5% of its land for agriculture to generate 1.44% of GDP.

    Norway uses 2.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 1.93% of GDP.
    Large parts of Sweden and Norway are effectively uninhabited
    Looking at that stat, I can only think land use is being counted in fundamentally different ways.

    Still, carry on!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    The surge is on! Almost 270k first doses! Herd immunity here we come.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    Is that the first time over 1% of population?
    That must be very close to a record. We certainly haven't done 700k before – and that is only a whisker off that...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    Is that the first time over 1% of population?
    No, we had a few days in March as well. This should be sustained for a few weeks IMO.
  • XtrainXtrain Posts: 341

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    Fair point.

    Kraft "cheese" and stuff like that probably doesn't do America's reputation much good. 😂
    Like culture, the US exports the lowest common denominator, and keeps the good stuff for itself. Anyone who has been to New York City (or and of the large cities) and said "the food is shit here" probably spent whole trip in a hospital.
    American food is rather like British food. Has a mediocre reputation worldwide, but in many big coastal cities you can get fantastic, innovative restaurant food, there's a great array of foreign cuisines, and in the first order cities - New York, LA (London in the UK) - the food can be some of the best in the world. America also has stand-out smaller food cities like New Orleans, which are as good as the best in Europe

    Where America does fall down is in the flyover country, where you can drive for 100 miles and the only choice is fast food, literally. DAIRY QUEENS

    And don't get me on to the cheese or charcuterie selection in, say, a Walmart in Mississippi. UGH
    My wife's from New Haven, which is not flyover country but neither is it (excluding Yale) a big city, and you can get fantastic cheap sandwiches, pizzas, what have you in Italian Deli's on every corner. The equivalent in the UK would be Oxford or Cambridge where, admittedly, there are some great high end restaurants but you try finding a decent cheap sandwich.
    What?! You can walk into any decent supermarket across the UK and get incredible sandwiches. It's one thing we do brilliantly. Tesco do a stilton and rare roast beef sandwich which is possibly the best sandwich I have ever had.

    Waitrose, M&S, all superb

    Pret is still pretty damn good

    Much better than America, I think
    Publix supermarket in US do the great freshly made sandwiches. Again like so much of US, it the extremes, Walmart vs Whole Foods / Publix.
    M & S poached salmon and watercress sandwiches were my favourite.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Floater said:

    Son just rang me to say the PA of E.On's CEO has rung him this morning to let him know that whilst these complaints are usually handled by his team she had him read this one personally and he is taking a personal interest and is "upset" and "emotionally invested" in this case.

    Seeing it all written down the case against E.on is utterly shaming - but I am relieved beyond words that this now has senior management investiture.

    What happened?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
    I think he said "back in 1999".
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
    I am 99% sure that the Goodge Street and at least one of the two Sainsburys on TCR were not open when I was at law school on Store Street in 97-98. The Brunswick Centre Safeways/whatever certainly was but I distinctly remember the dearth of supermarket shopping options round Bloomsbury/Fitzrovia in the late 90s.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    Is that the first time over 1% of population?
    That must be very close to a record. We certainly haven't done 700k before – and that is only a whisker off that...
    Our peak day was 844k in March, I think we can probably beat that over the next few weeks. The first week of June is going to be really important for first doses so I wouldn't be surprised if the government emptied the stockpile of Pfizer that week and just chances of for second dose supply arriving on time or lengthening the gap if it comes a bit late in July.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,036
    Leon said:

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    Fair point.

    Kraft "cheese" and stuff like that probably doesn't do America's reputation much good. 😂
    Like culture, the US exports the lowest common denominator, and keeps the good stuff for itself. Anyone who has been to New York City (or and of the large cities) and said "the food is shit here" probably spent whole trip in a hospital.
    American food is rather like British food. Has a mediocre reputation worldwide, but in many big coastal cities you can get fantastic, innovative restaurant food, there's a great array of foreign cuisines, and in the first order cities - New York, LA (London in the UK) - the food can be some of the best in the world. America also has stand-out smaller food cities like New Orleans, which are as good as the best in Europe

    Where America does fall down is in the flyover country, where you can drive for 100 miles and the only choice is fast food, literally. DAIRY QUEENS

    And don't get me on to the cheese or charcuterie selection in, say, a Walmart in Mississippi. UGH
    Yes, America is somewhat of a paradox. It is easy to eat well and healthily on the coasts, but baffingly expensive. I always remember a friend visiting from the Bay Area and telling me that the almonds in Sainsbury's were half price what they are in his local Safeway BUT THEY WERE GROWN IN CALIFORNIA.

    And on Manhattan, where there are no supermarkets except about one Trader Joe's, it's even worse. I met another friend in New York once who was studying at NYU and he told me he'd get together with a few other students and get a cab to the nearest Costco and back ($70-$80) and do his food shopping there rather than pay bodega prices.
    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up
    It has the same problem as New York, for different reasons. Italy, like Japan, protects its small shopkeepers just, well, because.

    Whereas on Manhattan it's the sky high price of real estate that means that supermarkets, or any halfway decent foodstores, aren't viable.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,036

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    Fair point.

    Kraft "cheese" and stuff like that probably doesn't do America's reputation much good. 😂
    Like culture, the US exports the lowest common denominator, and keeps the good stuff for itself. Anyone who has been to New York City (or and of the large cities) and said "the food is shit here" probably spent whole trip in a hospital.
    American food is rather like British food. Has a mediocre reputation worldwide, but in many big coastal cities you can get fantastic, innovative restaurant food, there's a great array of foreign cuisines, and in the first order cities - New York, LA (London in the UK) - the food can be some of the best in the world. America also has stand-out smaller food cities like New Orleans, which are as good as the best in Europe

    Where America does fall down is in the flyover country, where you can drive for 100 miles and the only choice is fast food, literally. DAIRY QUEENS

    And don't get me on to the cheese or charcuterie selection in, say, a Walmart in Mississippi. UGH
    Yes, America is somewhat of a paradox. It is easy to eat well and healthily on the coasts, but baffingly expensive. I always remember a friend visiting from the Bay Area and telling me that the almonds in Sainsbury's were half price what they are in his local Safeway BUT THEY WERE GROWN IN CALIFORNIA.

    And on Manhattan, where there are no supermarkets except about one Trader Joe's, it's even worse. I met another friend in New York once who was studying at NYU and he told me he'd get together with a few other students and get a cab to the nearest Costco and back ($70-$80) and do his food shopping there rather than pay bodega prices.
    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day
    I found the morning market was great for basically everything, but you have to get stuff every couple of days, you can't do big shops as you would in the UK.
    Never land in Italy on a Sunday. Absolutely impossible to buy anything anywhere. Your only option is restaurants in much of the country.
    Liberalising Sunday trading was by far thing the Major government did.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited May 2021
    DavidL said:

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    Is that the first time over 1% of population?
    That must be very close to a record. We certainly haven't done 700k before – and that is only a whisker off that...
    Was it a French Minister who made the comment that it was how you finished and that the UK would be crawling over the finish line while the EU marched ahead?

    Given the urgent need to immunise your most vulnerable it was tosh even at the time but we don't seem to be in that position.
    Yebbut...they still seem to be opening up at the same time as us if not before so net-net it's even stevens.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
    I am 99% sure that the Goodge Street and at least one of the two Sainsburys on TCR were not open when I was at law school on Store Street in 97-98. The Brunswick Centre Safeways/whatever certainly was but I distinctly remember the dearth of supermarket shopping options round Bloomsbury/Fitzrovia in the late 90s.
    I literally lived on Store Street for ten years, I lived in Fitzrovia for ten years before that, and Bloomsbury (again) before that

    Goodge Street was always open, as was one of the TCR Sainsburys, the other was back then a big Asda. Ditto the others, mostly they existed

    The supermarket choice has somewhat expanded and elevated (eg the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick, once a Safeways) but your memory is largely faulty
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,036
    DavidL said:

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    Is that the first time over 1% of population?
    That must be very close to a record. We certainly haven't done 700k before – and that is only a whisker off that...
    Was it a French Minister who made the comment that it was how you finished and that the UK would be crawling over the finish line while the EU marched ahead?

    Given the urgent need to immunise your most vulnerable it was tosh even at the time but we don't seem to be in that position.
    Having a tiny aircraft carrier means you need to compensate by belittling other countries' vaccine programmes instead.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    Is that the first time over 1% of population?
    That must be very close to a record. We certainly haven't done 700k before – and that is only a whisker off that...
    Was it a French Minister who made the comment that it was how you finished and that the UK would be crawling over the finish line while the EU marched ahead?

    Given the urgent need to immunise your most vulnerable it was tosh even at the time but we don't seem to be in that position.
    Yebbut...they still seem to be opening up at the same time as us if not before so net-net it's even stevens.
    I'm not sure that holds water, the UK is well placed to get back to the old normal within a few weeks. I'm not sure many other places in the world will achieve that through vaccination alone as we're about to.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    edited May 2021
    Fishing said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    Fair point.

    Kraft "cheese" and stuff like that probably doesn't do America's reputation much good. 😂
    Like culture, the US exports the lowest common denominator, and keeps the good stuff for itself. Anyone who has been to New York City (or and of the large cities) and said "the food is shit here" probably spent whole trip in a hospital.
    American food is rather like British food. Has a mediocre reputation worldwide, but in many big coastal cities you can get fantastic, innovative restaurant food, there's a great array of foreign cuisines, and in the first order cities - New York, LA (London in the UK) - the food can be some of the best in the world. America also has stand-out smaller food cities like New Orleans, which are as good as the best in Europe

    Where America does fall down is in the flyover country, where you can drive for 100 miles and the only choice is fast food, literally. DAIRY QUEENS

    And don't get me on to the cheese or charcuterie selection in, say, a Walmart in Mississippi. UGH
    Yes, America is somewhat of a paradox. It is easy to eat well and healthily on the coasts, but baffingly expensive. I always remember a friend visiting from the Bay Area and telling me that the almonds in Sainsbury's were half price what they are in his local Safeway BUT THEY WERE GROWN IN CALIFORNIA.

    And on Manhattan, where there are no supermarkets except about one Trader Joe's, it's even worse. I met another friend in New York once who was studying at NYU and he told me he'd get together with a few other students and get a cab to the nearest Costco and back ($70-$80) and do his food shopping there rather than pay bodega prices.
    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day
    I found the morning market was great for basically everything, but you have to get stuff every couple of days, you can't do big shops as you would in the UK.
    Never land in Italy on a Sunday. Absolutely impossible to buy anything anywhere. Your only option is restaurants in much of the country.
    Liberalising Sunday trading was by far thing the Major government did.
    I still get caught out on Easter Sunday even today – the one Sunday of the year that was outside the Major legislation (unless Christmas Day falls on a Sunday).

    P.S. Glad to read your story about Eon. Good luck.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    Is that the first time over 1% of population?
    That must be very close to a record. We certainly haven't done 700k before – and that is only a whisker off that...
    Was it a French Minister who made the comment that it was how you finished and that the UK would be crawling over the finish line while the EU marched ahead?

    Given the urgent need to immunise your most vulnerable it was tosh even at the time but we don't seem to be in that position.
    Yebbut...they still seem to be opening up at the same time as us if not before so net-net it's even stevens.
    We have pissed away much of the time we could have opened up sooner, but they're not actually opening up at the same time are they?

    I can't imagine their 21 June will be the same as ours. Restaurants and cafes are still closed indoors there.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,627
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    Is that the first time over 1% of population?
    That must be very close to a record. We certainly haven't done 700k before – and that is only a whisker off that...
    Was it a French Minister who made the comment that it was how you finished and that the UK would be crawling over the finish line while the EU marched ahead?

    Given the urgent need to immunise your most vulnerable it was tosh even at the time but we don't seem to be in that position.
    Yebbut...they still seem to be opening up at the same time as us if not before so net-net it's even stevens.
    I'm not sure that holds water, the UK is well placed to get back to the old normal within a few weeks. I'm not sure many other places in the world will achieve that through vaccination alone as we're about to.
    Our deaths are essentially flat while the US and EU are still recording a lot every day.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited May 2021

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
    I think he said "back in 1999".
    I lived there back in 1999. There was plenty of supermarkets.

    There IS a slight lack of big shops (and, particularly, pubs) in the university-ish part of Bloomsbury, but this is for two highly specific reasons: the university and its ancillary buildings - ULU, Senate House, Halls of Residence, takes up so much of the land there simply isn't room. AND the Russell Family/Bedford Estates, that owns the land, used to be fierce teetotallers so they tried to limit or prohibit pubs. True story

    Central London has long been very well stocked with good supermarkets. It's one thing British cities do quite well
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    Is that the first time over 1% of population?
    That must be very close to a record. We certainly haven't done 700k before – and that is only a whisker off that...
    Was it a French Minister who made the comment that it was how you finished and that the UK would be crawling over the finish line while the EU marched ahead?

    Given the urgent need to immunise your most vulnerable it was tosh even at the time but we don't seem to be in that position.
    Yebbut...they still seem to be opening up at the same time as us if not before so net-net it's even stevens.
    I'm not sure that holds water, the UK is well placed to get back to the old normal within a few weeks. I'm not sure many other places in the world will achieve that through vaccination alone as we're about to.
    Our deaths are essentially flat while the US and EU are still recording a lot every day.
    Our deaths have been flat a couple of months now.

    We should have opened up months ago. They are running three months behind us, so will probably be able to safely open up about one month after us.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    Is that the first time over 1% of population?
    That must be very close to a record. We certainly haven't done 700k before – and that is only a whisker off that...
    Was it a French Minister who made the comment that it was how you finished and that the UK would be crawling over the finish line while the EU marched ahead?

    Given the urgent need to immunise your most vulnerable it was tosh even at the time but we don't seem to be in that position.
    Yebbut...they still seem to be opening up at the same time as us if not before so net-net it's even stevens.
    As is Spain - I do however think this is a huge risk to open up while the majority of those under 50 have not had a 1st dose - and this is the group who will ten dto take the most risks....
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
    I am 99% sure that the Goodge Street and at least one of the two Sainsburys on TCR were not open when I was at law school on Store Street in 97-98. The Brunswick Centre Safeways/whatever certainly was but I distinctly remember the dearth of supermarket shopping options round Bloomsbury/Fitzrovia in the late 90s.
    I literally lived on Store Street for ten years, I lived in Fitzrovia for ten years before that, and Bloomsbury (again) before that

    Goodge Street was always open, as was one of the TCR Sainsburys, the other was back then a big Asda. Ditto the others, mostly they existed

    The supermarket choice has somewhat expanded and elevated (eg the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick, once a Safeways) but your memory is largely faulty
    If you say so. I don't call a Tesco Express or Sainsburys local a "supermarket" - they are convenience stores. You sure it isn't your memory that was fuzzy? Plenty of small independent c-stores stores to buy food in, but not a full size supermarket.

    I think the main thing I hated about Z1 living was the tourists. Having to try and squeeze / dodge past people everywhere when doing normal stuff. Sod off down the Mall or something.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    Is that the first time over 1% of population?
    That must be very close to a record. We certainly haven't done 700k before – and that is only a whisker off that...
    Was it a French Minister who made the comment that it was how you finished and that the UK would be crawling over the finish line while the EU marched ahead?

    Given the urgent need to immunise your most vulnerable it was tosh even at the time but we don't seem to be in that position.
    Yebbut...they still seem to be opening up at the same time as us if not before so net-net it's even stevens.
    As is Spain - I do however think this is a huge risk to open up while the majority of those under 50 have not had a 1st dose - and this is the group who will ten dto take the most risks....
    Let the under 50s take the chance, or stay at home if they want to.

    99% of deaths were in the over 50s, or under 50s with conditions (so vaccinated first too).

    If the over 50s had under 50 outcomes we'd have never locked down in the first place.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Italy's population density is probably closest to the UK's within large nations in Europe.

    They dedicate 41.7% of land to agriculture and it generates 1.93% of GDP.
    We dedicated 71.7% of land to agriculture and it generated 0.61% of GDP.

    What would be so wrong about going down the Italian route, freeing up countless hectares across the country, while tripling our domestic agricultural output? What is the downside?

    Italian farming relies of quality of produce on highly productive land due to sunshine hours, rain and desirable end product with a huge and captive domestic audience.

    We won't ever make the same agricultural and food products as Italy and it won't ever be worth the same GDP as what we produce. Additionally, the UK economy is significantly more diverse than Italy. We have huge tech, financial and pharma sectors that Italy could only hope to imitate. Italy has got GDP of $2tn and falling, the UK has got GDP of $3tn and rising. 0.79% of GDP for agriculture isn't necessarily a bad thing when you take into account the sheer size of the UK economy vs others that are being compared to.

    I'm not fussed about Australian food imports, in fact I think that they will be a net benefit to the country and having been to Australia a few times the quality of their red meat is excellent, it's comparable to our own. I'm not sure you can make cross country comparisons on the agricultural economic contribution as those numbers are, IMO, fairly useless in isolation.
    The UK, - England in particular has a large amount of land that is suitable for agriculture - Japan is mountainous in the middle, Sweden doesn't have the sunshine hours we do. But we don't have the sunshine of the Med so the land likely isn't as productive as areas further south.
    In addition we don't really have the intense farming of the USA and higher welfare standards than the EU with respect to pig farming.
    So it's massive land areas of middling agriculture. The farmers do tend to sell up if they can turn their fields of rape into fields of chimney pots too; that's a whole another argument though.
    'Sunshine' - only in the climatic sense maybe - Scotland gets a huge amount with the short nights and that's why the Laich of Moray, the Merse and the Howe of Fife inter aliis are superb farmland.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
    I am 99% sure that the Goodge Street and at least one of the two Sainsburys on TCR were not open when I was at law school on Store Street in 97-98. The Brunswick Centre Safeways/whatever certainly was but I distinctly remember the dearth of supermarket shopping options round Bloomsbury/Fitzrovia in the late 90s.
    I literally lived on Store Street for ten years, I lived in Fitzrovia for ten years before that, and Bloomsbury (again) before that

    Goodge Street was always open, as was one of the TCR Sainsburys, the other was back then a big Asda. Ditto the others, mostly they existed

    The supermarket choice has somewhat expanded and elevated (eg the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick, once a Safeways) but your memory is largely faulty
    If you say so. I don't call a Tesco Express or Sainsburys local a "supermarket" - they are convenience stores. You sure it isn't your memory that was fuzzy? Plenty of small independent c-stores stores to buy food in, but not a full size supermarket.

    I think the main thing I hated about Z1 living was the tourists. Having to try and squeeze / dodge past people everywhere when doing normal stuff. Sod off down the Mall or something.
    My memory of shops is not fuzzy. I went to them every day. You're just wrong. Soz


    And there aren't many tourists in Bloomsbury. Apart from around the British Museum at the southern end there are almost none. What would they go there for? Unless they had a deep interest in fine Georgian architecture, or liked watching ambulances go into A&E at UCLH

    It's full of students, academics, researchers, medics. A lovely area with fine squares and bookshops, and some decent little pubs and restaurant, despite the Prohibitions by the owners. I love Lamb's Conduit Street

    You have a peculiar view of London
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I see the people who were having a hernia at Merkel mentioning the British virus are also prolapsing at Sturgeon not using the term Indian variant. A permanent truss (surgical not tory) to keep everything tucked in might be a wise move.

    I have no problem with her not using the term Indian variant.

    It does beg the term why she does use the term Kent variant though.
    Is there a Kentish community in Scotland?
    Is their an Indian community? Aren't they all Scots?
    There is an Indian community but not a Kentian one. That's the rationale - people didn’t seem to get it so I helped.

    Although tbh I don't think it matters too much what you call the variants. So long as you don't go around chanting "China virus China virus China virus" in a smarmily menacing way like the Donald.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    Is that the first time over 1% of population?
    That must be very close to a record. We certainly haven't done 700k before – and that is only a whisker off that...
    Was it a French Minister who made the comment that it was how you finished and that the UK would be crawling over the finish line while the EU marched ahead?

    Given the urgent need to immunise your most vulnerable it was tosh even at the time but we don't seem to be in that position.
    Yebbut...they still seem to be opening up at the same time as us if not before so net-net it's even stevens.
    I'm not sure that holds water, the UK is well placed to get back to the old normal within a few weeks. I'm not sure many other places in the world will achieve that through vaccination alone as we're about to.
    No of course we shall see but it is an interesting experiment to see what happens us vs them. For the next global pandemic...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    I have a friend who - and you can know someone for 20 years and still be finding things out about them - it turns out is a massive fan of really top quality beef. He insists on American beef - reckons it far superior to British in almost all circumstances.
    There is some amazing US beef. But it is far from the norm.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    Is that the first time over 1% of population?
    That must be very close to a record. We certainly haven't done 700k before – and that is only a whisker off that...
    Was it a French Minister who made the comment that it was how you finished and that the UK would be crawling over the finish line while the EU marched ahead?

    Given the urgent need to immunise your most vulnerable it was tosh even at the time but we don't seem to be in that position.
    Yebbut...they still seem to be opening up at the same time as us if not before so net-net it's even stevens.
    We have pissed away much of the time we could have opened up sooner, but they're not actually opening up at the same time are they?

    I can't imagine their 21 June will be the same as ours. Restaurants and cafes are still closed indoors there.
    Not sure but I think throughout there has in many places been a more lax regime. Curfews, restaurants closing at 10pm (we can dream) and the like.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    Is that the first time over 1% of population?
    That must be very close to a record. We certainly haven't done 700k before – and that is only a whisker off that...
    Was it a French Minister who made the comment that it was how you finished and that the UK would be crawling over the finish line while the EU marched ahead?

    Given the urgent need to immunise your most vulnerable it was tosh even at the time but we don't seem to be in that position.
    Yebbut...they still seem to be opening up at the same time as us if not before so net-net it's even stevens.
    As is Spain - I do however think this is a huge risk to open up while the majority of those under 50 have not had a 1st dose - and this is the group who will ten dto take the most risks....
    Yes absolutely we will see in the weeks and months to come the relative merits of each approach.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I see the people who were having a hernia at Merkel mentioning the British virus are also prolapsing at Sturgeon not using the term Indian variant. A permanent truss (surgical not tory) to keep everything tucked in might be a wise move.

    I have no problem with her not using the term Indian variant.

    It does beg the term why she does use the term Kent variant though.
    Is there a Kentish community in Scotland?
    Is their an Indian community? Aren't they all Scots?
    There is an Indian community but not a Kentian one. That's the rationale - people didn’t seem to get it so I helped.

    Although tbh I don't think it matters too much what you call the variants. So long as you don't go around chanting "China virus China virus China virus" in a smarmily menacing way like the Donald.
    Hmm...why do stopped clocks come to mind?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I see the people who were having a hernia at Merkel mentioning the British virus are also prolapsing at Sturgeon not using the term Indian variant. A permanent truss (surgical not tory) to keep everything tucked in might be a wise move.

    I have no problem with her not using the term Indian variant.

    It does beg the term why she does use the term Kent variant though.
    Is there a Kentish community in Scotland?
    Is their an Indian community? Aren't they all Scots?
    There is an Indian community but not a Kentian one. That's the rationale - people didn’t seem to get it so I helped.

    Although tbh I don't think it matters too much what you call the variants. So long as you don't go around chanting "China virus China virus China virus" in a smarmily menacing way like the Donald.
    Sorry - this doesn't address the issue of Brazilian communities or indeed SA, both of decent size in the UK. Its pathetic.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
    I think he said "back in 1999".
    I lived there back in 1999. There was plenty of supermarkets.

    There IS a slight lack of big shops (and, particularly, pubs) in the university-ish part of Bloomsbury, but this is for two highly specific reasons: the university and its ancillary buildings - ULU, Senate House, Halls of Residence, takes up so much of the land there simply isn't room. AND the Russell Family/Bedford Estates, that owns the land, used to be fierce teetotallers so they tried to limit or prohibit pubs. True story

    Central London has long been very well stocked with good supermarkets. It's one thing British cities do quite well
    There are good pubs in the Bloomsbury area. Admittedly the best of them used to be the Sun Inn (at least that's what I think it was called) on Lambs Conduit Street, but that's closed I think.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Charles said:

    Why does agriculture take up so much land? Perhaps you need land to grow soy to feed to cows to turn into burgers? Think about how much more efficient things would be if we concrete over the farms and turn them into nice office parks full of people mining Britcoin which we then use to buy food grown by foreign wasters happy to be inefficient.

    Yes, a sure way to a secure and prosperous future.

    Yep, the UK dedicates 71.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 0.61% of UK GDP.

    In contrast Sweden uses 6.5% of its land for agriculture to generate 1.44% of GDP.

    Norway uses 2.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 1.93% of GDP.
    Large parts of Sweden and Norway are effectively uninhabited
    The number is also slightly misleading: it's not "agriculture" alone, but "agriculture, forestry and fishing".

    And forestry is going to absolutely dominate the number for Norway and Sweden.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Italy's population density is probably closest to the UK's within large nations in Europe.

    They dedicate 41.7% of land to agriculture and it generates 1.93% of GDP.
    We dedicated 71.7% of land to agriculture and it generated 0.61% of GDP.

    What would be so wrong about going down the Italian route, freeing up countless hectares across the country, while tripling our domestic agricultural output? What is the downside?

    Italian farming relies of quality of produce on highly productive land due to sunshine hours, rain and desirable end product with a huge and captive domestic audience.

    We won't ever make the same agricultural and food products as Italy and it won't ever be worth the same GDP as what we produce. Additionally, the UK economy is significantly more diverse than Italy. We have huge tech, financial and pharma sectors that Italy could only hope to imitate. Italy has got GDP of $2tn and falling, the UK has got GDP of $3tn and rising. 0.79% of GDP for agriculture isn't necessarily a bad thing when you take into account the sheer size of the UK economy vs others that are being compared to.

    I'm not fussed about Australian food imports, in fact I think that they will be a net benefit to the country and having been to Australia a few times the quality of their red meat is excellent, it's comparable to our own. I'm not sure you can make cross country comparisons on the agricultural economic contribution as those numbers are, IMO, fairly useless in isolation.
    The UK, - England in particular has a large amount of land that is suitable for agriculture - Japan is mountainous in the middle, Sweden doesn't have the sunshine hours we do. But we don't have the sunshine of the Med so the land likely isn't as productive as areas further south.
    In addition we don't really have the intense farming of the USA and higher welfare standards than the EU with respect to pig farming.
    So it's massive land areas of middling agriculture. The farmers do tend to sell up if they can turn their fields of rape into fields of chimney pots too; that's a whole another argument though.
    'Sunshine' - only in the climatic sense maybe - Scotland gets a huge amount with the short nights and that's why the Laich of Moray, the Merse and the Howe of Fife inter aliis are superb farmland.
    Scotland does not get a "huge amount of sunshine". It is one of the least sunny places on earth, along with North West England


    Edinburgh gets about 1300 hours of sunshine per year. London gets about 1640. The sunniest place in the UK, Eastbourne, gets 1800

    Paris gets close to 2000 hours, Nice gets 2800 hours, Marbella gets over 3000


    The east coast of Scotland might be a slightly better than Edinburgh, but its not much. Fife gets 1430 hours

    A striking thing about sunshine hours is how much sunnier it is in America, compared to Europe. The least sunny place in the USA is akin to a sunnier place in Europe. eg Seattle gets 2200 hours

    Not that I'm obsessed with sun at the moment, or anything
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
    I am 99% sure that the Goodge Street and at least one of the two Sainsburys on TCR were not open when I was at law school on Store Street in 97-98. The Brunswick Centre Safeways/whatever certainly was but I distinctly remember the dearth of supermarket shopping options round Bloomsbury/Fitzrovia in the late 90s.
    I literally lived on Store Street for ten years, I lived in Fitzrovia for ten years before that, and Bloomsbury (again) before that

    Goodge Street was always open, as was one of the TCR Sainsburys, the other was back then a big Asda. Ditto the others, mostly they existed

    The supermarket choice has somewhat expanded and elevated (eg the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick, once a Safeways) but your memory is largely faulty
    If you say so. I don't call a Tesco Express or Sainsburys local a "supermarket" - they are convenience stores. You sure it isn't your memory that was fuzzy? Plenty of small independent c-stores stores to buy food in, but not a full size supermarket.

    I think the main thing I hated about Z1 living was the tourists. Having to try and squeeze / dodge past people everywhere when doing normal stuff. Sod off down the Mall or something.
    My memory of shops is not fuzzy. I went to them every day. You're just wrong. Soz


    And there aren't many tourists in Bloomsbury. Apart from around the British Museum at the southern end there are almost none. What would they go there for? Unless they had a deep interest in fine Georgian architecture, or liked watching ambulances go into A&E at UCLH

    It's full of students, academics, researchers, medics. A lovely area with fine squares and bookshops, and some decent little pubs and restaurant, despite the Prohibitions by the owners. I love Lamb's Conduit Street

    You have a peculiar view of London
    I love visiting that London on business. Despised it passionately when I lived there.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    I have a friend who - and you can know someone for 20 years and still be finding things out about them - it turns out is a massive fan of really top quality beef. He insists on American beef - reckons it far superior to British in almost all circumstances.
    British meat is relatively shit.

    I don't know why. But it is. Maybe its the lack of sunshine, maybe its in your head, but go to Australia, or America and the meat there just tastes better. My wife is from South Africa and she says the same thing, when she moved to the UK she stopped eating meat for a while, not because of any 'vegetarian' reason but because it was so disappointing compared to what she was used to in South Africa.

    If British and Aussie meat was available at the same price next to each other in a supermarket, I'd be very tempted to go for the latter.
    I haven't done a scientific study of this but I tend to agree. I think the UK meat tends to a higher fat content, possibly because our lousy climate encourages that in the animals and our smaller fields means they don't move around as much. Leaner, firmer beef is better in the same way that free range chicken tastes much better than factory farmed.
    Absolutely, hence why beef with low far content such as Wagyu is so cheap.

    Oh wait.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Woooooo! Office reopening on Monday! Socials planned, lunches back on. Real life is returning.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    I have a friend who - and you can know someone for 20 years and still be finding things out about them - it turns out is a massive fan of really top quality beef. He insists on American beef - reckons it far superior to British in almost all circumstances.
    There is some amazing US beef. But it is far from the norm.
    Best steak I had evah was in Jasper. Just melted. Can remember it as though it was today.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Why does agriculture take up so much land? Perhaps you need land to grow soy to feed to cows to turn into burgers? Think about how much more efficient things would be if we concrete over the farms and turn them into nice office parks full of people mining Britcoin which we then use to buy food grown by foreign wasters happy to be inefficient.

    Yes, a sure way to a secure and prosperous future.

    Yep, the UK dedicates 71.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 0.61% of UK GDP.

    In contrast Sweden uses 6.5% of its land for agriculture to generate 1.44% of GDP.

    Norway uses 2.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 1.93% of GDP.
    Large parts of Sweden and Norway are effectively uninhabited
    The number is also slightly misleading: it's not "agriculture" alone, but "agriculture, forestry and fishing".

    And forestry is going to absolutely dominate the number for Norway and Sweden.
    That's a fair point but in which case fishing would be included in the UKs figure too presumably?

    In which case do you think using 71% of our available land, to provide 0.61% of GDP minus whatever the fishing figure is, is good value for money land?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
    The big Sainsburys at the top of Tottenham Court Road used to be a Budgens. It only changed in about 2004/5.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
    I think he said "back in 1999".
    I lived there back in 1999. There was plenty of supermarkets.

    There IS a slight lack of big shops (and, particularly, pubs) in the university-ish part of Bloomsbury, but this is for two highly specific reasons: the university and its ancillary buildings - ULU, Senate House, Halls of Residence, takes up so much of the land there simply isn't room. AND the Russell Family/Bedford Estates, that owns the land, used to be fierce teetotallers so they tried to limit or prohibit pubs. True story

    Central London has long been very well stocked with good supermarkets. It's one thing British cities do quite well
    I lived in Bloomsbury too for a while. It's an odd pocket of London. Buildings quite uniform and ostensibly very little happening. Certainly not for me anyway. Wasn't sorry to move somewhere else.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
    The big Sainsburys at the top of Tottenham Court Road used to be a Budgens. It only changed in about 2004/5.
    An Asda, I think? It certainly changed, yes
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    Is that the first time over 1% of population?
    That must be very close to a record. We certainly haven't done 700k before – and that is only a whisker off that...
    Was it a French Minister who made the comment that it was how you finished and that the UK would be crawling over the finish line while the EU marched ahead?

    Given the urgent need to immunise your most vulnerable it was tosh even at the time but we don't seem to be in that position.
    Yebbut...they still seem to be opening up at the same time as us if not before so net-net it's even stevens.
    As is Spain - I do however think this is a huge risk to open up while the majority of those under 50 have not had a 1st dose - and this is the group who will ten dto take the most risks....
    Yes absolutely we will see in the weeks and months to come the relative merits of each approach.
    At the moment where I live the case numbers are very low indeed but the arrival of thousands of tourists is imminent and of concern - my second jab is still around 10 weeks away - I'm 67 so you can imagine how many millions are at risk still for some time.
  • DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
    I am 99% sure that the Goodge Street and at least one of the two Sainsburys on TCR were not open when I was at law school on Store Street in 97-98. The Brunswick Centre Safeways/whatever certainly was but I distinctly remember the dearth of supermarket shopping options round Bloomsbury/Fitzrovia in the late 90s.
    I was at UCL in early 90s and the Goodge street Tesco was there then, it was well hidden if you didn't know it was there. There used to be a Budgens was at the north end of TCR and smaller convenience store opened a little further down on the opposite side (was about the size of a sainsburys local) around '95. Even then there was quite a few Londis style stores about on the side streets
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Why does agriculture take up so much land? Perhaps you need land to grow soy to feed to cows to turn into burgers? Think about how much more efficient things would be if we concrete over the farms and turn them into nice office parks full of people mining Britcoin which we then use to buy food grown by foreign wasters happy to be inefficient.

    Yes, a sure way to a secure and prosperous future.

    Yep, the UK dedicates 71.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 0.61% of UK GDP.

    In contrast Sweden uses 6.5% of its land for agriculture to generate 1.44% of GDP.

    Norway uses 2.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 1.93% of GDP.
    Large parts of Sweden and Norway are effectively uninhabited
    The number is also slightly misleading: it's not "agriculture" alone, but "agriculture, forestry and fishing".

    And forestry is going to absolutely dominate the number for Norway and Sweden.
    That's a fair point but in which case fishing would be included in the UKs figure too presumably?

    In which case do you think using 71% of our available land, to provide 0.61% of GDP minus whatever the fishing figure is, is good value for money land?
    My point is that your agricultural land number doesn't include managed forests while your GDP number includes their output. So, it skews the numbers. If you excluded forestry from the GDP number, you might get 0.1% or less for Norway and Sweden.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
    I think he said "back in 1999".
    I lived there back in 1999. There was plenty of supermarkets.

    There IS a slight lack of big shops (and, particularly, pubs) in the university-ish part of Bloomsbury, but this is for two highly specific reasons: the university and its ancillary buildings - ULU, Senate House, Halls of Residence, takes up so much of the land there simply isn't room. AND the Russell Family/Bedford Estates, that owns the land, used to be fierce teetotallers so they tried to limit or prohibit pubs. True story

    Central London has long been very well stocked with good supermarkets. It's one thing British cities do quite well
    There are good pubs in the Bloomsbury area. Admittedly the best of them used to be the Sun Inn (at least that's what I think it was called) on Lambs Conduit Street, but that's closed I think.
    In and around Little Russell Street is nice and, on a quiet day, redolent of a different age. I had a camera mended at Camera City there and that is a slice of a bygone age.

    As you say, pubs not so much and most people headed to the All Bar One close by on Oxford Street.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    688,563 vaccinations in UK yesterday

    England 234,818 1st doses / 367,142 2nd doses
    Scotland 18,603 / 26,968
    Wales 11,583 / 17,214
    NI 3,247 / 8,988

    Is that the first time over 1% of population?
    That must be very close to a record. We certainly haven't done 700k before – and that is only a whisker off that...
    Was it a French Minister who made the comment that it was how you finished and that the UK would be crawling over the finish line while the EU marched ahead?

    Given the urgent need to immunise your most vulnerable it was tosh even at the time but we don't seem to be in that position.
    Yebbut...they still seem to be opening up at the same time as us if not before so net-net it's even stevens.
    As is Spain - I do however think this is a huge risk to open up while the majority of those under 50 have not had a 1st dose - and this is the group who will ten dto take the most risks....
    Yes absolutely we will see in the weeks and months to come the relative merits of each approach.
    At the moment where I live the case numbers are very low indeed but the arrival of thousands of tourists is imminent and of concern - my second jab is still around 10 weeks away - I'm 67 so you can imagine how many millions are at risk still for some time.
    Yes I can understand the concern. Still, it's an interesting decision by the Spanish govt. What motivated it, do you think?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I see the people who were having a hernia at Merkel mentioning the British virus are also prolapsing at Sturgeon not using the term Indian variant. A permanent truss (surgical not tory) to keep everything tucked in might be a wise move.

    I have no problem with her not using the term Indian variant.

    It does beg the term why she does use the term Kent variant though.
    Is there a Kentish community in Scotland?
    Is their an Indian community? Aren't they all Scots?
    There is an Indian community but not a Kentian one. That's the rationale - people didn’t seem to get it so I helped.

    Although tbh I don't think it matters too much what you call the variants. So long as you don't go around chanting "China virus China virus China virus" in a smarmily menacing way like the Donald.
    Sorry - this doesn't address the issue of Brazilian communities or indeed SA, both of decent size in the UK. Its pathetic.
    I wasn't seeking to address that. So it wasn't pathetic.
  • rawliberalrawliberal Posts: 21
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
    I am 99% sure that the Goodge Street and at least one of the two Sainsburys on TCR were not open when I was at law school on Store Street in 97-98. The Brunswick Centre Safeways/whatever certainly was but I distinctly remember the dearth of supermarket shopping options round Bloomsbury/Fitzrovia in the late 90s.
    I literally lived on Store Street for ten years, I lived in Fitzrovia for ten years before that, and Bloomsbury (again) before that

    Goodge Street was always open, as was one of the TCR Sainsburys, the other was back then a big Asda. Ditto the others, mostly they existed

    The supermarket choice has somewhat expanded and elevated (eg the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick, once a Safeways) but your memory is largely faulty
    There was a Budgens at the top of TCR (opposite Warren St station) in the late 90s and if you really wanted a big shop, Sainsbury's Camden isn't that far away - just a short bus ride. When I first got to UCL as a student in the late seventies, the Tesco on Goodge St was considered a pretty decent size for a supermarket. Expectations have changed.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
    I am 99% sure that the Goodge Street and at least one of the two Sainsburys on TCR were not open when I was at law school on Store Street in 97-98. The Brunswick Centre Safeways/whatever certainly was but I distinctly remember the dearth of supermarket shopping options round Bloomsbury/Fitzrovia in the late 90s.
    I was at UCL in early 90s and the Goodge street Tesco was there then, it was well hidden if you didn't know it was there. There used to be a Budgens was at the north end of TCR and smaller convenience store opened a little further down on the opposite side (was about the size of a sainsburys local) around '95. Even then there was quite a few Londis style stores about on the side streets
    That Budgens (which was pretty shit) is now a Sainsburys.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    I have a friend who - and you can know someone for 20 years and still be finding things out about them - it turns out is a massive fan of really top quality beef. He insists on American beef - reckons it far superior to British in almost all circumstances.
    British meat is relatively shit.

    I don't know why. But it is. Maybe its the lack of sunshine, maybe its in your head, but go to Australia, or America and the meat there just tastes better. My wife is from South Africa and she says the same thing, when she moved to the UK she stopped eating meat for a while, not because of any 'vegetarian' reason but because it was so disappointing compared to what she was used to in South Africa.

    If British and Aussie meat was available at the same price next to each other in a supermarket, I'd be very tempted to go for the latter.
    I haven't done a scientific study of this but I tend to agree. I think the UK meat tends to a higher fat content, possibly because our lousy climate encourages that in the animals and our smaller fields means they don't move around as much. Leaner, firmer beef is better in the same way that free range chicken tastes much better than factory farmed.
    Absolutely, hence why beef with low far content such as Wagyu is so cheap.

    Oh wait.
    Ok, ok, I give up. But I still think it is important how the animal has lived.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    Meanwhile, the 70,000 shortage of drivers is creating a stand-off between suppliers and supermarkets. Wage inflation (like £5k instant payrise) for the remaining drivers means there's still a shortage of delivery slots AND upward pressure on prices that can't be contained.

    Someone will foot the bill. Unless the supermarkets have a radical change of heart it will be punters.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I see the people who were having a hernia at Merkel mentioning the British virus are also prolapsing at Sturgeon not using the term Indian variant. A permanent truss (surgical not tory) to keep everything tucked in might be a wise move.

    I have no problem with her not using the term Indian variant.

    It does beg the term why she does use the term Kent variant though.
    Is there a Kentish community in Scotland?
    Is their an Indian community? Aren't they all Scots?
    There is an Indian community but not a Kentian one. That's the rationale - people didn’t seem to get it so I helped.

    Although tbh I don't think it matters too much what you call the variants. So long as you don't go around chanting "China virus China virus China virus" in a smarmily menacing way like the Donald.
    Sorry - this doesn't address the issue of Brazilian communities or indeed SA, both of decent size in the UK. Its pathetic.
    I wasn't seeking to address that. So it wasn't pathetic.
    Not you - the Scottish government. Pathetic weasel behaviour. They just need to call it B1.167.2, then no community is stigmatised. Its like they are just trying to wind people up. Oh wait...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I see the people who were having a hernia at Merkel mentioning the British virus are also prolapsing at Sturgeon not using the term Indian variant. A permanent truss (surgical not tory) to keep everything tucked in might be a wise move.

    I have no problem with her not using the term Indian variant.

    It does beg the term why she does use the term Kent variant though.
    Is there a Kentish community in Scotland?
    Is their an Indian community? Aren't they all Scots?
    There is an Indian community but not a Kentian one. That's the rationale - people didn’t seem to get it so I helped.

    Although tbh I don't think it matters too much what you call the variants. So long as you don't go around chanting "China virus China virus China virus" in a smarmily menacing way like the Donald.
    Hmm...why do stopped clocks come to mind?
    What me or Nicola? No, don't answer that!

    Your previous wisecrack certainly landed btw - forced me to change Kentish to Kentian.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited May 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Why does agriculture take up so much land? Perhaps you need land to grow soy to feed to cows to turn into burgers? Think about how much more efficient things would be if we concrete over the farms and turn them into nice office parks full of people mining Britcoin which we then use to buy food grown by foreign wasters happy to be inefficient.

    Yes, a sure way to a secure and prosperous future.

    Yep, the UK dedicates 71.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 0.61% of UK GDP.

    In contrast Sweden uses 6.5% of its land for agriculture to generate 1.44% of GDP.

    Norway uses 2.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 1.93% of GDP.
    Large parts of Sweden and Norway are effectively uninhabited
    The number is also slightly misleading: it's not "agriculture" alone, but "agriculture, forestry and fishing".

    And forestry is going to absolutely dominate the number for Norway and Sweden.
    That's a fair point but in which case fishing would be included in the UKs figure too presumably?

    In which case do you think using 71% of our available land, to provide 0.61% of GDP minus whatever the fishing figure is, is good value for money land?
    My point is that your agricultural land number doesn't include managed forests while your GDP number includes their output. So, it skews the numbers. If you excluded forestry from the GDP number, you might get 0.1% or less for Norway and Sweden.
    That's a fair point so skip the Scandinavian countries. I quoted the Japanese and Italian figures too which are much more comparable as densely populated nations.

    Either way though, I can't think of a single densely populated developed nation anywhere in the world reserving over 70% of the countries land for agricultural purposes. Considering that land is not exactly something we have a major competitive advantage in it is really shooting ourselves in the foot economically.

    If we were to have our agricultural land in G7 or G20 averages that would free up a lot of land for other purposes without whacking our GDP.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
    I think he said "back in 1999".
    I lived there back in 1999. There was plenty of supermarkets.

    There IS a slight lack of big shops (and, particularly, pubs) in the university-ish part of Bloomsbury, but this is for two highly specific reasons: the university and its ancillary buildings - ULU, Senate House, Halls of Residence, takes up so much of the land there simply isn't room. AND the Russell Family/Bedford Estates, that owns the land, used to be fierce teetotallers so they tried to limit or prohibit pubs. True story

    Central London has long been very well stocked with good supermarkets. It's one thing British cities do quite well
    The Perseverance is around there isn’t it? Excellent pub.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    Meanwhile, the 70,000 shortage of drivers is creating a stand-off between suppliers and supermarkets. Wage inflation (like £5k instant payrise) for the remaining drivers means there's still a shortage of delivery slots AND upward pressure on prices that can't be contained.

    Someone will foot the bill. Unless the supermarkets have a radical change of heart it will be punters.

    Wait, last week you were saying that they wouldn't and everyone would go out of business.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    I have a friend who - and you can know someone for 20 years and still be finding things out about them - it turns out is a massive fan of really top quality beef. He insists on American beef - reckons it far superior to British in almost all circumstances.
    British meat is relatively shit.

    I don't know why. But it is. Maybe its the lack of sunshine, maybe its in your head, but go to Australia, or America and the meat there just tastes better. My wife is from South Africa and she says the same thing, when she moved to the UK she stopped eating meat for a while, not because of any 'vegetarian' reason but because it was so disappointing compared to what she was used to in South Africa.

    If British and Aussie meat was available at the same price next to each other in a supermarket, I'd be very tempted to go for the latter.
    I haven't done a scientific study of this but I tend to agree. I think the UK meat tends to a higher fat content, possibly because our lousy climate encourages that in the animals and our smaller fields means they don't move around as much. Leaner, firmer beef is better in the same way that free range chicken tastes much better than factory farmed.
    Absolutely, hence why beef with low far content such as Wagyu is so cheap.

    Oh wait.
    Ok, ok, I give up. But I still think it is important how the animal has lived.
    In any case, getting rid of sheep, fish, etc. from Scotland is like getting rid of Scots lawyers. Neither may take up a huge part of GDP, but we are on the whole a lot better for having them available locally ...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
    The big Sainsburys at the top of Tottenham Court Road used to be a Budgens. It only changed in about 2004/5.
    An Asda, I think? It certainly changed, yes
    No, it was definitely a Budgens.

    I moved to just by Great Portland Street station in 2002, and it was the nearest large supermarket. At that time we also had a Europa foods, and that was the overpriced local place where one got eggs and bread.

    So, I'd do my "big" shops at the Budgens every couple of weeks, and fill in with smaller stuff from Europa.

    In the middle of 2004, Europa Foods sold out to Tesco, and the little Tesco Metro appeared by GPS station. And around the same time Budgens became Sainsburys. And there was much rejoicing in the Smithson household.

    There was, of course, also the M&S on Tottenham Court Road, just South of Goodge Street station.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    I see the people who were having a hernia at Merkel mentioning the British virus are also prolapsing at Sturgeon not using the term Indian variant. A permanent truss (surgical not tory) to keep everything tucked in might be a wise move.

    The Scottish Virus on the other hand, is not a Coronvirus, it is a particularly nasty and negative debilitation that causes hatred of others (particularly anyone English) and is particularly contagious amongst the politically gullible and simple minded. General symptoms include smugness, a misplaced belief in Scottish exceptionalism and fake history along with a paradoxical chippy inferiority complex. The worst cases exhibit severe anger management issues and the deification of sex pests that look like toads. The disease state of the virus is known as Scottish Nationalism.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019
    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Taking back control of our borders, money and laws." But relinquishing control of food production, because that's not important.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Floater said:

    Update on my son - the CEO himself has just rung him!

    Personally apologised (some things he needs to investigate still, but he has seen enough to know they have not acted well)and said he would be investigating this himself this afternoon and tomorrow.

    Said he was basically ashamed this could happen in an organisation he runs - he said if the team could not see that there was something very wrong in a 2 bed flat running up that sort of bill then they all need retraining.

    He told my son it would be sorted, not to worry about it and they will make sure it does not impact his credit rating.

    He told my son to concentrate on getting well - now I seem to have something in my eye......

    That is the way a company should act when things go wrong - own it and act on it.

    All we wanted was a recognition that this was stupid and a stop to them threatening him with debt collectors

    Thanks all for your advice on this

    Very pleased for you and him. And decent of the CEO, too.
    Really ought not to have happened, but at least a positive outcome is in sight.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Why does agriculture take up so much land? Perhaps you need land to grow soy to feed to cows to turn into burgers? Think about how much more efficient things would be if we concrete over the farms and turn them into nice office parks full of people mining Britcoin which we then use to buy food grown by foreign wasters happy to be inefficient.

    Yes, a sure way to a secure and prosperous future.

    Yep, the UK dedicates 71.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 0.61% of UK GDP.

    In contrast Sweden uses 6.5% of its land for agriculture to generate 1.44% of GDP.

    Norway uses 2.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 1.93% of GDP.
    Large parts of Sweden and Norway are effectively uninhabited
    The number is also slightly misleading: it's not "agriculture" alone, but "agriculture, forestry and fishing".

    And forestry is going to absolutely dominate the number for Norway and Sweden.
    That's a fair point but in which case fishing would be included in the UKs figure too presumably?

    In which case do you think using 71% of our available land, to provide 0.61% of GDP minus whatever the fishing figure is, is good value for money land?
    My point is that your agricultural land number doesn't include managed forests while your GDP number includes their output. So, it skews the numbers. If you excluded forestry from the GDP number, you might get 0.1% or less for Norway and Sweden.
    That's a fair point so skip the Scandinavian countries. I quoted the Japanese and Italian figures too which are much more comparable as densely populated nations.

    Either way though, I can't think of a single densely populated developed nation anywhere in the world reserving over 70% of the countries land for agricultural purposes. Considering that land is not exactly something we have a major competitive advantage in it is really shooting ourselves in the foot economically.

    If we were to have our agricultural land in G7 or G20 averages that would free up a lot of land for other purposes without whacking our GDP.
    That's a very fair point.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,523
    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    I have a friend who - and you can know someone for 20 years and still be finding things out about them - it turns out is a massive fan of really top quality beef. He insists on American beef - reckons it far superior to British in almost all circumstances.
    British meat is relatively shit.

    I don't know why. But it is. Maybe its the lack of sunshine, maybe its in your head, but go to Australia, or America and the meat there just tastes better. My wife is from South Africa and she says the same thing, when she moved to the UK she stopped eating meat for a while, not because of any 'vegetarian' reason but because it was so disappointing compared to what she was used to in South Africa.

    If British and Aussie meat was available at the same price next to each other in a supermarket, I'd be very tempted to go for the latter.
    I haven't done a scientific study of this but I tend to agree. I think the UK meat tends to a higher fat content, possibly because our lousy climate encourages that in the animals and our smaller fields means they don't move around as much. Leaner, firmer beef is better in the same way that free range chicken tastes much better than factory farmed.
    Clearly you are not a chef as any decent cook will tell you that you need a good fat content in meat to bring out the flavour when cooking it. This is why a good chef will always go for the marbled meat not the lean stuff.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Italy has the same supermarket problem. Try looking for a decent big supermarket in the centre of Milan or Naples. Impossible. It's just tiny stores selling massively overpriced tins of tomatoes, and three kinds of Chianti with a 200% mark up

    It's bizarre in a country with such brilliant cuisine, generally

    If you want to shop well you have to go the bakers, the butchers, the market, the wine store, which is all very picturesque and Italian but is also a bloody pain, and they are often shut for most of the day

    I lived in zone 1 back in 1999. The only supermarket in walking distance was Safeway (now a Waitrose I think) at the Brunswick Centre and it was tiny. So for almost anything you ended up heading out of town. So I moved to zone 4.

    This is complete crap, sorry

    I know the area you're talking about very well. I lived there for decades.

    There's the huge Waitrose in the Brunswick Centre, a Sainsbury in the Brunswick Centre, two Sainsbury's on Tottenham Court Road (one big) a Tesco on Goodge Street, a Tesco Express on Russell Square, another big Sainsbury's in Holborn....
    The big Sainsburys at the top of Tottenham Court Road used to be a Budgens. It only changed in about 2004/5.
    An Asda, I think? It certainly changed, yes
    No, it was definitely a Budgens.

    I moved to just by Great Portland Street station in 2002, and it was the nearest large supermarket. At that time we also had a Europa foods, and that was the overpriced local place where one got eggs and bread.

    So, I'd do my "big" shops at the Budgens every couple of weeks, and fill in with smaller stuff from Europa.

    In the middle of 2004, Europa Foods sold out to Tesco, and the little Tesco Metro appeared by GPS station. And around the same time Budgens became Sainsburys. And there was much rejoicing in the Smithson household.

    There was, of course, also the M&S on Tottenham Court Road, just South of Goodge Street station.
    Definitely a budgens, I remember going there when I did a summer internship during my sixth form nearby.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    Mango said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Taking back control of our borders, money and laws." But relinquishing control of food production, because that's not important.
    Especially given how Unionists and Brexiters love to go on and on and on about the Somme, Battle of Britain, Churchill etc. Now there's one chap who would have slept much, much better in 1940-4 if Britain had not farmed out (sorry) most of its food production to overseas.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,523

    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    I have a friend who - and you can know someone for 20 years and still be finding things out about them - it turns out is a massive fan of really top quality beef. He insists on American beef - reckons it far superior to British in almost all circumstances.
    British meat is relatively shit.

    I don't know why. But it is. Maybe its the lack of sunshine, maybe its in your head, but go to Australia, or America and the meat there just tastes better. My wife is from South Africa and she says the same thing, when she moved to the UK she stopped eating meat for a while, not because of any 'vegetarian' reason but because it was so disappointing compared to what she was used to in South Africa.

    If British and Aussie meat was available at the same price next to each other in a supermarket, I'd be very tempted to go for the latter.
    I suspect a better explanation is just that you are a shit cook.
This discussion has been closed.