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January 6th is what some Republican congressmen are now calling a “tourist visit” – politicalbetting

SystemSystem Posts: 12,162
edited May 2021 in General
imageJanuary 6th is what some Republican congressmen are now calling a “tourist visit” – politicalbetting.com

It is now more than four and a half months since the dramatic events in Washington when supporters of Donald Trump stormed the Capitol building in the effort to stop Congress officially certifying that Joe Biden won the 2020 presidential election – yet what happened that day looks set to dominate US politics for a long time to come.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    1st
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited May 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2021

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food.

    Your extremist ideology is just as bonkers as that of the autarkists you so despise.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    EU playing silly buggers again.....

    A decision in Brussels to add the UK to an EU “white list” of countries from where tourists will be welcome this summer is to be delayed, it is understood, due to concerns over the Covid variant first identified in India.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/21/eu-decision-to-add-uk-to-travel-white-list-to-be-delayed-due-to-covid-variant-fears
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    DavidL said:

    As a republican I am of course the true first, whatever the evidence may indicate.

    I acknowledge that
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    January 6th: so what? It is the same question as here, do matters of honour of even law outweigh brute electoral politics? What everyone thought were checks and balances turn out not to be if Congress votes on party lines or the Minister chooses not to resign.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    As the official nicknaming of the Variant Under Investigation found around Sheffield, may I humbly suggest God's Own Corone.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    Pro_Rata said:

    As the official nicknaming of the Variant Under Investigation found around Sheffield, may I humbly suggest God's Own Corone.

    I presume this variant won't hesitate to tell you how it is the best variant....and how the soften softie one from Kent got nought on it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    I did think at the time that the coverage by CNN in particular bordered on the completely hysterical and hyperbolic. The democracy of the US is flawed in many ways and the Republican Party and the Supreme Court are working on more ways as we speak but it is not some banana republic (are you allowed to say this anymore?) where if you seize the Presidential palace and the TV station you are the next government.

    There was never the slightest risk that these idiots and their idiotic leader would endanger the democracy of the United States. Their behaviour was reprehensible and it is difficult not to be contemptuous of a Republican party who refused to support impeachment on the basis of it but some sort of perspective needs to be maintained on this and I very much doubt that it will have the political impact that Mike seems to think.

    These people were a sick joke with some very sad consequences but trying to pretend that they were deadly serious made many of the commentators look almost as ridiculous as they were.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DavidL said:

    I did think at the time that the coverage by CNN in particular bordered on the completely hysterical and hyperbolic. The democracy of the US is flawed in many ways and the Republican Party and the Supreme Court are working on more ways as we speak but it is not some banana republic (are you allowed to say this anymore?) where if you seize the Presidential palace and the TV station you are the next government.

    There was never the slightest risk that these idiots and their idiotic leader would endanger the democracy of the United States. Their behaviour was reprehensible and it is difficult not to be contemptuous of a Republican party who refused to support impeachment on the basis of it but some sort of perspective needs to be maintained on this and I very much doubt that it will have the political impact that Mike seems to think.

    These people were a sick joke with some very sad consequences but trying to pretend that they were deadly serious made many of the commentators look almost as ridiculous as they were.

    Though if these people had broken through to get to Mike Pence and the Senators then things could have turned very, very nasty.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,189
    Dug into welsh data, and Powys has done 84.4% of all adults.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    DavidL said:

    I did think at the time that the coverage by CNN in particular bordered on the completely hysterical and hyperbolic. The democracy of the US is flawed in many ways and the Republican Party and the Supreme Court are working on more ways as we speak but it is not some banana republic (are you allowed to say this anymore?) where if you seize the Presidential palace and the TV station you are the next government.

    There was never the slightest risk that these idiots and their idiotic leader would endanger the democracy of the United States. Their behaviour was reprehensible and it is difficult not to be contemptuous of a Republican party who refused to support impeachment on the basis of it but some sort of perspective needs to be maintained on this and I very much doubt that it will have the political impact that Mike seems to think.

    These people were a sick joke with some very sad consequences but trying to pretend that they were deadly serious made many of the commentators look almost as ridiculous as they were.

    Though if these people had broken through to get to Mike Pence and the Senators then things could have turned very, very nasty.
    More than 1 of them would have been shot, that's for sure.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    On the subject of rioting, what the hell was going on in Swansea last night?!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,919
    edited May 2021
    Biden's approval rating is 54% but Congress' approval rating is only 31% and it will be the Democratic controlled Congress on the ballot next November in the midterms not Biden

    While Biden's approval rating is also about average and above Trump's, it is actually significantly below the 65% rating Obama had at this stage of his Presidency and even Obama saw his party lose control of the House in his first midterms
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/350129/biden-congress-approval-ratings-steady.aspx
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    DavidL said:

    I did think at the time that the coverage by CNN in particular bordered on the completely hysterical and hyperbolic. The democracy of the US is flawed in many ways and the Republican Party and the Supreme Court are working on more ways as we speak but it is not some banana republic (are you allowed to say this anymore?) where if you seize the Presidential palace and the TV station you are the next government.

    There was never the slightest risk that these idiots and their idiotic leader would endanger the democracy of the United States. Their behaviour was reprehensible and it is difficult not to be contemptuous of a Republican party who refused to support impeachment on the basis of it but some sort of perspective needs to be maintained on this and I very much doubt that it will have the political impact that Mike seems to think.

    These people were a sick joke with some very sad consequences but trying to pretend that they were deadly serious made many of the commentators look almost as ridiculous as they were.

    Though if these people had broken through to get to Mike Pence and the Senators then things could have turned very, very nasty.
    Yes indeed. I doubt whether 1% had truly murderous intent, but it only takes a few, and there were enough deaths already to suggest things could have escalated very quickly.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,919
    edited May 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Most Australian farmers will continue to export to China and Asia primarily not us, most of our imports will continue to come from the EU. Just Australian imports will ultimately be on the same terms as EU imports now have, as opposed to pre Brexit when Australian imports faced tariffs and barriers and EU imports did not.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    What a remarkable situation. Almost every serious player on the right of politics in the United States is choosing to jettison their last shred of integrity and self-respect in order to appease a raddled old gangster-conman. The Republicans are in a really tough place. I'd normally have compassion for a group of people so afflicted but in this case I struggle. They deserve no better, I'm afraid. They let him in the house.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    Vaccine age in England now down to 34
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    HYUFD said:

    Biden's approval rating is 54% but Congress' approval rating is only 31% and it will be the Democratic controlled Congress on the ballot next November in the midterms not Biden

    While Biden's approval rating is also about average and above Trump's, it is actually significantly below the 65% rating Obama had at this stage of his Presidency and even Obama saw his party lose control of the House in his first midterms
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/350129/biden-congress-approval-ratings-steady.aspx

    But the Republican party has jumped the shark and continues to embrace the deeply and increasingly unpopular character of Trump as the removal of Liz Cheney demonstrated all too clearly. I think that they will pay a heavy price for that obduracy and expect the Democrats to do quite well.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2021
    tlg86 said:

    On the subject of rioting, what the hell was going on in Swansea last night?!

    I don’t like the policing tactic where they let the fkers do what they want and then try to catch them afterwards.

    Effective policing needs to be be immediate and responsive and have a clear deterrent effect.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    I take your point Mike. In a normal polity inciting an armed mob to storm the government seeking to take members hostage (or worse) would be a Bad Thing. However, the Donald is not a part of a normal polity and the rules do not apply.

    The reason why GOP dipshit Housemembers are describing this as a "normal tourist visit" is because they know their core vote supports that absurd description.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden's approval rating is 54% but Congress' approval rating is only 31% and it will be the Democratic controlled Congress on the ballot next November in the midterms not Biden

    While Biden's approval rating is also about average and above Trump's, it is actually significantly below the 65% rating Obama had at this stage of his Presidency and even Obama saw his party lose control of the House in his first midterms
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/350129/biden-congress-approval-ratings-steady.aspx

    But the Republican party has jumped the shark and continues to embrace the deeply and increasingly unpopular character of Trump as the removal of Liz Cheney demonstrated all too clearly. I think that they will pay a heavy price for that obduracy and expect the Democrats to do quite well.
    I hope you're right, I'm worried you won't be.

    I was hoping that Trump losing office would see his grasp on the party removed, just as after Corbyn lost power. But it seems the Trumpists want to hold on, even after defeat.

    Maybe they need to be defeated a second time, like Corbyn himself.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    Of course Tommy Boy, fresh from his cri de coeur on behalf of a wife killer, was in on the joke all along

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1395667309344210944?s=20
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900

    EU playing silly buggers again.....

    A decision in Brussels to add the UK to an EU “white list” of countries from where tourists will be welcome this summer is to be delayed, it is understood, due to concerns over the Covid variant first identified in India.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/21/eu-decision-to-add-uk-to-travel-white-list-to-be-delayed-due-to-covid-variant-fears

    Genuine question. Have EU members banned people travelling here from India in ways that we haven't? If they have then they have a point. If they haven't then "silly buggers" is sovereignty in action - the right of states to allow in who they see fit how they see fit.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    How, exactly, is my contribution at 12.02 off topic?

    Some people are just a bit weird.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited May 2021

    EU playing silly buggers again.....

    A decision in Brussels to add the UK to an EU “white list” of countries from where tourists will be welcome this summer is to be delayed, it is understood, due to concerns over the Covid variant first identified in India.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/21/eu-decision-to-add-uk-to-travel-white-list-to-be-delayed-due-to-covid-variant-fears

    Genuine question. Have EU members banned people travelling here from India in ways that we haven't? If they have then they have a point. If they haven't then "silly buggers" is sovereignty in action - the right of states to allow in who they see fit how they see fit.
    Its silly buggers in that we have a highly vaccinated population and they have plenty of Indian variant covid already. I believe the US also has plenty of Indian variant COVID, but they are going to be allowed in, as long as vaccinated.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,919
    edited May 2021
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden's approval rating is 54% but Congress' approval rating is only 31% and it will be the Democratic controlled Congress on the ballot next November in the midterms not Biden

    While Biden's approval rating is also about average and above Trump's, it is actually significantly below the 65% rating Obama had at this stage of his Presidency and even Obama saw his party lose control of the House in his first midterms
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/350129/biden-congress-approval-ratings-steady.aspx

    But the Republican party has jumped the shark and continues to embrace the deeply and increasingly unpopular character of Trump as the removal of Liz Cheney demonstrated all too clearly. I think that they will pay a heavy price for that obduracy and expect the Democrats to do quite well.
    Most Independents still approve of Biden but they disapprove of Congress (by contrast Democrats approve of both and Republicans disapprove of both).

    It is Independents who tend to be key in midterms and they tend to prefer split government, at the moment it seems they are minded to return the GOP to power in the House and remove Pelosi even if they are also minded to re elect Biden-Harris in 2024 over Trump or whichever Trumpite candidate the GOP nominate
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden's approval rating is 54% but Congress' approval rating is only 31% and it will be the Democratic controlled Congress on the ballot next November in the midterms not Biden

    While Biden's approval rating is also about average and above Trump's, it is actually significantly below the 65% rating Obama had at this stage of his Presidency and even Obama saw his party lose control of the House in his first midterms
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/350129/biden-congress-approval-ratings-steady.aspx

    But the Republican party has jumped the shark and continues to embrace the deeply and increasingly unpopular character of Trump as the removal of Liz Cheney demonstrated all too clearly. I think that they will pay a heavy price for that obduracy and expect the Democrats to do quite well.
    I hope you're right, I'm worried you won't be.

    I was hoping that Trump losing office would see his grasp on the party removed, just as after Corbyn lost power. But it seems the Trumpists want to hold on, even after defeat.

    Maybe they need to be defeated a second time, like Corbyn himself.
    But he hasn't even been defeated once yet! 😉😂
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    DavidL said:

    How, exactly, is my contribution at 12.02 off topic?

    Some people are just a bit weird.

    I’m reading on iPhone and accidentally off topic and like posts all the time, when scrolling. I assume others do, too.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    DavidL said:

    How, exactly, is my contribution at 12.02 off topic?

    Some people are just a bit weird.

    Often people just do that accidentally on their phones. Especially if they're drinking. And it is that sort of time.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    Why does agriculture take up so much land? Perhaps you need land to grow soy to feed to cows to turn into burgers? Think about how much more efficient things would be if we concrete over the farms and turn them into nice office parks full of people mining Britcoin which we then use to buy food grown by foreign wasters happy to be inefficient.

    Yes, a sure way to a secure and prosperous future.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    Nicola Sturgeon making clear she doesn't want the Indian variant to be called that, and will from now on call it the April-02 variant instead.

    Then goes on to say that the April-02 variant 'may be more transmissable than the Kent variant.'

    Interesting language choice. I wonder why the SNP leader doesn't call the Kent variant the December-01 variant or similar? 😂

    She is just mental. There really isn't any other explanation that fits the facts.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,919

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden's approval rating is 54% but Congress' approval rating is only 31% and it will be the Democratic controlled Congress on the ballot next November in the midterms not Biden

    While Biden's approval rating is also about average and above Trump's, it is actually significantly below the 65% rating Obama had at this stage of his Presidency and even Obama saw his party lose control of the House in his first midterms
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/350129/biden-congress-approval-ratings-steady.aspx

    But the Republican party has jumped the shark and continues to embrace the deeply and increasingly unpopular character of Trump as the removal of Liz Cheney demonstrated all too clearly. I think that they will pay a heavy price for that obduracy and expect the Democrats to do quite well.
    I hope you're right, I'm worried you won't be.

    I was hoping that Trump losing office would see his grasp on the party removed, just as after Corbyn lost power. But it seems the Trumpists want to hold on, even after defeat.

    Maybe they need to be defeated a second time, like Corbyn himself.
    Corbyn lost by a landslide in 2019, Trump did not in 2020. Trump also won in 2016 and Corbyn lost in 2017
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    As the same time EU playing silly buggers, Spain appear just to be plain stupid...

    British tourists will be allowed to enter Spain from Monday without having to show a negative Covid-19 test.

    Spain will follow Portugal's lead and let UK holidaymakers in the country from next week, the Spanish government confirmed on Friday in an official state bulletin.

    Well-placed Spanish Ministry of Tourism sources also confirmed British tourists would be let in without having to show a negative coronavirus test or proof they had been vaccinated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9603825/Spain-allow-British-tourists-Monday-despite-UKs-amber-list.html
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden's approval rating is 54% but Congress' approval rating is only 31% and it will be the Democratic controlled Congress on the ballot next November in the midterms not Biden

    While Biden's approval rating is also about average and above Trump's, it is actually significantly below the 65% rating Obama had at this stage of his Presidency and even Obama saw his party lose control of the House in his first midterms
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/350129/biden-congress-approval-ratings-steady.aspx

    But the Republican party has jumped the shark and continues to embrace the deeply and increasingly unpopular character of Trump as the removal of Liz Cheney demonstrated all too clearly. I think that they will pay a heavy price for that obduracy and expect the Democrats to do quite well.
    I hope you're right, I'm worried you won't be.

    I was hoping that Trump losing office would see his grasp on the party removed, just as after Corbyn lost power. But it seems the Trumpists want to hold on, even after defeat.

    Maybe they need to be defeated a second time, like Corbyn himself.
    But Biden got elected by stepping closer to Corbyn, politically. Look at his agenda.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    edited May 2021
    kinabalu said:

    What a remarkable situation. Almost every serious player on the right of politics in the United States is choosing to jettison their last shred of integrity and self-respect in order to appease a raddled old gangster-conman. The Republicans are in a really tough place. I'd normally have compassion for a group of people so afflicted but in this case I struggle. They deserve no better, I'm afraid. They let him in the house.

    Perhaps they've seen how well the folk on right of politics in the UK are doing currently with jettisoning their last shred of integrity and self-respect to appease their own conman and are hoping that they can replicate that?
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    edited May 2021
    It looks like full steam ahead for June 21 as Peston seems to think that the previous unlocking was already a mistake.....

    "Bolton’s infections data does not support Boris Johnson's unlocking optimism"

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1395699114613133316?s=19

    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-21/boltons-infections-data-does-not-support-boris-johnsons-unlocking-optimism

    (In all seriousness, the article is terrible. Completely brushes over hospitalisations remaining flat and just focuses on infections....)
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Most Australian farmers will continue to export to China and Asia primarily not us, most of our imports will continue to come from the EU. Just Australian imports will ultimately be on the same terms as EU imports now have, as opposed to pre Brexit when Australian imports faced tariffs and barriers and EU imports did not.
    Question - as Johnson is right and Gove is wrong and this new deal is Good News for Great British Farmers and consumers, why wait 15 years...?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    How, exactly, is my contribution at 12.02 off topic?

    Some people are just a bit weird.

    Often people just do that accidentally on their phones. Especially if they're drinking. And it is that sort of time.
    It is? Damn, I've been missing out.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden's approval rating is 54% but Congress' approval rating is only 31% and it will be the Democratic controlled Congress on the ballot next November in the midterms not Biden

    While Biden's approval rating is also about average and above Trump's, it is actually significantly below the 65% rating Obama had at this stage of his Presidency and even Obama saw his party lose control of the House in his first midterms
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/350129/biden-congress-approval-ratings-steady.aspx

    But the Republican party has jumped the shark and continues to embrace the deeply and increasingly unpopular character of Trump as the removal of Liz Cheney demonstrated all too clearly. I think that they will pay a heavy price for that obduracy and expect the Democrats to do quite well.
    I hope you're right, I'm worried you won't be.

    I was hoping that Trump losing office would see his grasp on the party removed, just as after Corbyn lost power. But it seems the Trumpists want to hold on, even after defeat.

    Maybe they need to be defeated a second time, like Corbyn himself.
    Corbyn lost by a landslide in 2019, Trump did not in 2020. Trump also won in 2016 and Corbyn lost in 2017
    In 2020 Trump won everywhere BUT the presidency. And what happened after he left? the repubs got hammered in Georgia.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,919
    edited May 2021

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Most Australian farmers will continue to export to China and Asia primarily not us, most of our imports will continue to come from the EU. Just Australian imports will ultimately be on the same terms as EU imports now have, as opposed to pre Brexit when Australian imports faced tariffs and barriers and EU imports did not.
    Question - as Johnson is right and Gove is wrong and this new deal is Good News for Great British Farmers and consumers, why wait 15 years...?
    As Boris will no longer be PM by then almost certainly, so it would not be his problem when the tariffs are eventually completely removed if a problem did emerge
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited May 2021
    RH1992 said:

    It looks like full steam ahead for June 21 as Peston seems to think that the previous unlocking was already a mistake.....

    "Bolton’s infections data does not support Boris Johnson's unlocking optimism"

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1395699114613133316?s=19

    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-21/boltons-infections-data-does-not-support-boris-johnsons-unlocking-optimism

    (In all seriousness, the article is terrible. Completely brushes over hospitalisations remaining flat and just focuses on infections....)

    Professor Peston talking bollocks...no....surely not.....has anybody in the media had a worse pandemic? From his chemical engineering bollocks to phone wire-gate....
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    EU playing silly buggers again.....

    A decision in Brussels to add the UK to an EU “white list” of countries from where tourists will be welcome this summer is to be delayed, it is understood, due to concerns over the Covid variant first identified in India.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/21/eu-decision-to-add-uk-to-travel-white-list-to-be-delayed-due-to-covid-variant-fears

    Genuine question. Have EU members banned people travelling here from India in ways that we haven't? If they have then they have a point. If they haven't then "silly buggers" is sovereignty in action - the right of states to allow in who they see fit how they see fit.
    I don't know the answer to that, however: the way the Indian variant is being reported, I'm not surprised if there's panic. The EU will get their stories from somewhere, and the way the BBC, Sky etc are reporting this you'd think we were the epicentre of the plague, rather than the country that had largely beaten it.
    They may be playing silly buggers, and of course it is their right to do so - however if that's the case they're doing it in a typically EU way which hurts them more than it hurts us. It's an inconvenience to British tourists not to be able to go on holiday to the Med; but it's existentially threatening to thousands of businesses in the Med, and not inconsequential to the economies of Spain, Portugal and Greece. And thereby not inconsequential to the future of the Euro.

    Now maybe the Indian variant is genuinely terrifying and confined exclusively to India and the UK. And what do I know, I'm just some bloke on the internet. But that's not what it looks like to me. Anyway, we'll see what today's figures from Bolton look like.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Most Australian farmers will continue to export to China and Asia primarily not us, most of our imports will continue to come from the EU. Just Australian imports will ultimately be on the same terms as EU imports now have, as opposed to pre Brexit when Australian imports faced tariffs and barriers and EU imports did not.
    Question - as Johnson is right and Gove is wrong and this new deal is Good News for Great British Farmers and consumers, why wait 15 years...?
    As Boris will no longer be PM by then almost certainly, so it would not be his problem when the tariffs are eventually completely removed if a problem did emerge
    So he knows it’s a shit deal, why is he doing it?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden's approval rating is 54% but Congress' approval rating is only 31% and it will be the Democratic controlled Congress on the ballot next November in the midterms not Biden

    While Biden's approval rating is also about average and above Trump's, it is actually significantly below the 65% rating Obama had at this stage of his Presidency and even Obama saw his party lose control of the House in his first midterms
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/350129/biden-congress-approval-ratings-steady.aspx

    But the Republican party has jumped the shark and continues to embrace the deeply and increasingly unpopular character of Trump as the removal of Liz Cheney demonstrated all too clearly. I think that they will pay a heavy price for that obduracy and expect the Democrats to do quite well.
    I hope you're right, I'm worried you won't be.

    I was hoping that Trump losing office would see his grasp on the party removed, just as after Corbyn lost power. But it seems the Trumpists want to hold on, even after defeat.

    Maybe they need to be defeated a second time, like Corbyn himself.
    Corbyn lost by a landslide in 2019, Trump did not in 2020. Trump also won in 2016 and Corbyn lost in 2017
    Biden 306
    Trump 232
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited May 2021

    Why does agriculture take up so much land? Perhaps you need land to grow soy to feed to cows to turn into burgers? Think about how much more efficient things would be if we concrete over the farms and turn them into nice office parks full of people mining Britcoin which we then use to buy food grown by foreign wasters happy to be inefficient.

    Yes, a sure way to a secure and prosperous future.

    Yep, the UK dedicates 71.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 0.61% of UK GDP.

    In contrast Sweden uses 6.5% of its land for agriculture to generate 1.44% of GDP.

    Norway uses 2.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 1.93% of GDP.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,919

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden's approval rating is 54% but Congress' approval rating is only 31% and it will be the Democratic controlled Congress on the ballot next November in the midterms not Biden

    While Biden's approval rating is also about average and above Trump's, it is actually significantly below the 65% rating Obama had at this stage of his Presidency and even Obama saw his party lose control of the House in his first midterms
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/350129/biden-congress-approval-ratings-steady.aspx

    But the Republican party has jumped the shark and continues to embrace the deeply and increasingly unpopular character of Trump as the removal of Liz Cheney demonstrated all too clearly. I think that they will pay a heavy price for that obduracy and expect the Democrats to do quite well.
    I hope you're right, I'm worried you won't be.

    I was hoping that Trump losing office would see his grasp on the party removed, just as after Corbyn lost power. But it seems the Trumpists want to hold on, even after defeat.

    Maybe they need to be defeated a second time, like Corbyn himself.
    Corbyn lost by a landslide in 2019, Trump did not in 2020. Trump also won in 2016 and Corbyn lost in 2017
    Biden 306
    Trump 232
    Trump lost by 4% of the vote in 2020, Corbyn lost by 12% of the vote in 2019
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,189
    edited May 2021
    DavidL said:

    How, exactly, is my contribution at 12.02 off topic?

    Some people are just a bit weird.

    It's not off topic but I'm not sure it's correct. Trump had no interest in relinquishing power, and the only thing that "tells" him to go is the Electoral Count. If the Electoral Count is not completed then he remains in power.
    That the coup attempt was completely unorganised is by the by, let's say Pence was killed. He had good protection, so it was always highly unlikely but there were many tooled up MAGAs there - so it was a possibility.

    Trump laments the passing of Pence, the perpetrators are sent to death row if they're not already dead but anyway he has to appoint a new VP, say err General Flynn. Flynn presides over the count and reads out the nonsense electors from Georgia "as determined by State legislature". Flynn finds Democrat objections 'not in order'.
    That it's a constitutional nonsense at this point doesn't matter because the President and VP have de facto control over the military and so forth - and at this point the process is 'orderly'; no Democrats are trying to storm the Capitol as there are thousands of National Guard outside.
    Does Roberts still swear Biden in at that point even though there's been a rigged Electoral count against him ?

    Unlikely ( < 1%) , but I believe such a scenario was certainly possible when police lost control of the Capitol.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900

    Why does agriculture take up so much land? Perhaps you need land to grow soy to feed to cows to turn into burgers? Think about how much more efficient things would be if we concrete over the farms and turn them into nice office parks full of people mining Britcoin which we then use to buy food grown by foreign wasters happy to be inefficient.

    Yes, a sure way to a secure and prosperous future.

    Yep, the UK dedicates 71.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 0.61% of UK GDP.

    In contrast Sweden uses 6.5% of its land for agriculture to generate 1.44% of GDP.

    Norway uses 2.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 1.93% of GDP.
    So we should waste less land growing food and import it? Perhaps some kind of open border free trade area with the places we'd then buy food from would be a good idea...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Cookie said:

    EU playing silly buggers again.....

    A decision in Brussels to add the UK to an EU “white list” of countries from where tourists will be welcome this summer is to be delayed, it is understood, due to concerns over the Covid variant first identified in India.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/21/eu-decision-to-add-uk-to-travel-white-list-to-be-delayed-due-to-covid-variant-fears

    Genuine question. Have EU members banned people travelling here from India in ways that we haven't? If they have then they have a point. If they haven't then "silly buggers" is sovereignty in action - the right of states to allow in who they see fit how they see fit.
    I don't know the answer to that, however: the way the Indian variant is being reported, I'm not surprised if there's panic. The EU will get their stories from somewhere, and the way the BBC, Sky etc are reporting this you'd think we were the epicentre of the plague, rather than the country that had largely beaten it.
    They may be playing silly buggers, and of course it is their right to do so - however if that's the case they're doing it in a typically EU way which hurts them more than it hurts us. It's an inconvenience to British tourists not to be able to go on holiday to the Med; but it's existentially threatening to thousands of businesses in the Med, and not inconsequential to the economies of Spain, Portugal and Greece. And thereby not inconsequential to the future of the Euro.

    Now maybe the Indian variant is genuinely terrifying and confined exclusively to India and the UK. And what do I know, I'm just some bloke on the internet. But that's not what it looks like to me. Anyway, we'll see what today's figures from Bolton look like.
    To a surprising extent, national leaders read the same news we do. Most of what they perceive about the world doesn't come from folders provided by grey men in grey suits.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited May 2021
    BBC clueless....

    The Public Accounts Committee found that licence fee sales have fallen by almost half a million in the past two years. MPs have labelled the BBC “complacent” for its attitude towards declining audiences, with 200,000 people per year cancelling their licence fee and young people switching to Netflix.

    The Commons Public Accounts Committee (PAC) also accused the publicly owned broadcaster of having “ducked the hard choices” when it came to shoring up its finances, and branded its plans to raise revenue outside the annual £159 television licence “unambitious”.

    Parliament’s spending watchdog, in a report published on Friday, urged bosses at Broadcasting House – who are in talks with ministers over the future of the licence fee – to “radically re-engineer its offer” in the face of declining audience numbers.

    The committee’s BBC Strategic Financial Management report said that in the last half of 2017, 16 to 24-year-olds were spending more time on Netflix than BBC TV and its iPlayer service.

    During 2019, the corporation also lost its place as the media provider that youngsters aged six to 15 spent most time with, while licence fee subscribers continue to dwindle, with sales falling by nearly half a million in the past two years, MPs said.

    https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/uk-news/2021/05/21/bbc-complacent-about-dwindling-viewer-numbers-say-mps/
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden's approval rating is 54% but Congress' approval rating is only 31% and it will be the Democratic controlled Congress on the ballot next November in the midterms not Biden

    While Biden's approval rating is also about average and above Trump's, it is actually significantly below the 65% rating Obama had at this stage of his Presidency and even Obama saw his party lose control of the House in his first midterms
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/350129/biden-congress-approval-ratings-steady.aspx

    But the Republican party has jumped the shark and continues to embrace the deeply and increasingly unpopular character of Trump as the removal of Liz Cheney demonstrated all too clearly. I think that they will pay a heavy price for that obduracy and expect the Democrats to do quite well.
    I hope you're right, I'm worried you won't be.

    I was hoping that Trump losing office would see his grasp on the party removed, just as after Corbyn lost power. But it seems the Trumpists want to hold on, even after defeat.

    Maybe they need to be defeated a second time, like Corbyn himself.
    Corbyn lost by a landslide in 2019, Trump did not in 2020. Trump also won in 2016 and Corbyn lost in 2017
    Biden 306
    Trump 232
    Trump lost by 4% of the vote in 2020, Corbyn lost by 12% of the vote in 2019
    He still lost! Get over it, HYUFD!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    As the same time EU playing silly buggers, Spain appear just to be plain stupid...

    British tourists will be allowed to enter Spain from Monday without having to show a negative Covid-19 test.

    Spain will follow Portugal's lead and let UK holidaymakers in the country from next week, the Spanish government confirmed on Friday in an official state bulletin.

    Well-placed Spanish Ministry of Tourism sources also confirmed British tourists would be let in without having to show a negative coronavirus test or proof they had been vaccinated.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9603825/Spain-allow-British-tourists-Monday-despite-UKs-amber-list.html

    If Spain can make that decision, what's the point of the EU's whitelist?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Why does agriculture take up so much land? Perhaps you need land to grow soy to feed to cows to turn into burgers? Think about how much more efficient things would be if we concrete over the farms and turn them into nice office parks full of people mining Britcoin which we then use to buy food grown by foreign wasters happy to be inefficient.

    Yes, a sure way to a secure and prosperous future.

    Yep, the UK dedicates 71.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 0.61% of UK GDP.

    In contrast Sweden uses 6.5% of its land for agriculture to generate 1.44% of GDP.

    Norway uses 2.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 1.93% of GDP.
    So we should waste less land growing food and import it? Perhaps some kind of open border free trade area with the places we'd then buy food from would be a good idea...
    That's one suggestion.

    Another suggestion would be that we use our land better and get more return from it and be more efficient.

    Why is it that Sweden can use 1/10th of its land as we do for agriculture, but get a better GDP return than we do?

    I am in favour of open border free trade areas with places we can buy food from, its one reason to support this very good Australian deal it looks like we're about to get. 👍
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    edited May 2021

    Why does agriculture take up so much land? Perhaps you need land to grow soy to feed to cows to turn into burgers? Think about how much more efficient things would be if we concrete over the farms and turn them into nice office parks full of people mining Britcoin which we then use to buy food grown by foreign wasters happy to be inefficient.

    Yes, a sure way to a secure and prosperous future.

    Yep, the UK dedicates 71.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 0.61% of UK GDP.

    In contrast Sweden uses 6.5% of its land for agriculture to generate 1.44% of GDP.

    Norway uses 2.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 1.93% of GDP.
    I think their definition of agricultural land may be different. In theory all of northern Scandinavia could be designated as 'farmland' because it is used for reindeer grazing.

    In any case, all that tells us is that Scandinavia is not heavily populated. What proportion of Sweden is urban?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    As the official nicknaming of the Variant Under Investigation found around Sheffield, may I humbly suggest God's Own Corone.

    I presume this variant won't hesitate to tell you how it is the best variant....and how the soften softie one from Kent got nought on it.
    Allegedly there's a Newcastle variant, which goes without a protein coat.
    The Scouse variant denies rumours it took the other variant's wheels.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited May 2021

    BBC clueless....

    The Public Accounts Committee found that licence fee sales have fallen by almost half a million in the past two years. MPs have labelled the BBC “complacent” for its attitude towards declining audiences, with 200,000 people per year cancelling their licence fee and young people switching to Netflix.

    The Commons Public Accounts Committee (PAC) also accused the publicly owned broadcaster of having “ducked the hard choices” when it came to shoring up its finances, and branded its plans to raise revenue outside the annual £159 television licence “unambitious”.

    Parliament’s spending watchdog, in a report published on Friday, urged bosses at Broadcasting House – who are in talks with ministers over the future of the licence fee – to “radically re-engineer its offer” in the face of declining audience numbers.

    The committee’s BBC Strategic Financial Management report said that in the last half of 2017, 16 to 24-year-olds were spending more time on Netflix than BBC TV and its iPlayer service.

    During 2019, the corporation also lost its place as the media provider that youngsters aged six to 15 spent most time with, while licence fee subscribers continue to dwindle, with sales falling by nearly half a million in the past two years, MPs said.

    https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/uk-news/2021/05/21/bbc-complacent-about-dwindling-viewer-numbers-say-mps/

    Whatever their output, you cannot fault GB News's timing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited May 2021
    Severely ill - and still made to quarantine in a hotel

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-57162187

    But I choose to travel half way around the world during a global pandemic knowing these were the rules.

    Again, our hotel quarantine system is far more relaxed than many. Some its 3 weeks, some you aren't even allowed out for any fresh air for the whole time, that its if they even allow you into the country, and there are no ifs, buts and maybes.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Why does agriculture take up so much land? Perhaps you need land to grow soy to feed to cows to turn into burgers? Think about how much more efficient things would be if we concrete over the farms and turn them into nice office parks full of people mining Britcoin which we then use to buy food grown by foreign wasters happy to be inefficient.

    Yes, a sure way to a secure and prosperous future.

    Yep, the UK dedicates 71.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 0.61% of UK GDP.

    In contrast Sweden uses 6.5% of its land for agriculture to generate 1.44% of GDP.

    Norway uses 2.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 1.93% of GDP.
    I think their definition of agricultural land may be different. In theory all of northern Scandinavia could be designated as 'farmland' because it is used for reindeer grazing.

    In any case, all that tells us is that Scandinavia is not heavily populated.
    Can you name any heavily populated nation on the planet that so inefficiently wastes 71% of its land to generate below 1% of GDP?

    Japan would probably be more comparable to the UK. They dedicated 12% of land to agriculture and they get 1.14% of GDP from agriculture.

    Why is ours so inefficient compared to everyone else?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,215
    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Most Australian farmers will continue to export to China and Asia primarily not us, most of our imports will continue to come from the EU. Just Australian imports will ultimately be on the same terms as EU imports now have, as opposed to pre Brexit when Australian imports faced tariffs and barriers and EU imports did not.
    Question - as Johnson is right and Gove is wrong and this new deal is Good News for Great British Farmers and consumers, why wait 15 years...?
    As Boris will no longer be PM by then almost certainly, so it would not be his problem when the tariffs are eventually completely removed if a problem did emerge
    So he knows it’s a shit deal, why is he doing it?
    Like most things Boris does as long as he is not there when the music stops if problems emerge he does not care
    This gets back to the bit of BoJo's MO that I simply don't get.

    Like you say, part of his success has been to get out just before the music stops, or to fail upwards. It's why he gets away with it so often.

    But that approach doesn't work when you're Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. There isn't really anywhere to fail up to from here. He can't leave the UK in the lurch while he runs off with a younger, sexier country- fantasies about his New York birth notwithstanding.

    So when the music stops... because he's not the Messiah, so the music will stop... what does he do then?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    How, exactly, is my contribution at 12.02 off topic?

    Some people are just a bit weird.

    It's not off topic but I'm not sure it's correct. Trump had no interest in relinquishing power, and the only thing that "tells" him to go is the Electoral Count. If the Electoral Count is not completed then he remains in power.
    That the coup attempt was completely unorganised is by the by, let's say Pence was killed. He had good protection, so it was always highly unlikely but there were many tooled up MAGAs there - so it was a possibility.

    Trump laments the passing of Pence, the perpetrators are sent to death row if they're not already dead but anyway he has to appoint a new VP, say err General Flynn. Flynn presides over the count and reads out the nonsense electors from Georgia "as determined by State legislature". Flynn finds Democrat objections 'not in order'.
    That it's a constitutional nonsense at this point doesn't matter because the President and VP have de facto control over the military and so forth - and at this point the process is 'orderly'; no Democrats are trying to storm the Capitol as there are thousands of National Guard outside.
    Does Roberts still swear Biden in at that point even though there's been a rigged Electoral count against him ?

    Unlikely ( < 1%) , but I believe such a scenario was certainly possible when police lost control of the Capitol.
    If, heaven forbid, anything had happened to Pence Trump would have been impeached in a heartbeat. And the elected officials of Georgia and elsewhere would still have done their duty. The idea that a mob like that could somehow seize control of the US is as delusional as the idea that Trump wasn't in fact well beaten.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    How, exactly, is my contribution at 12.02 off topic?

    Some people are just a bit weird.

    It's not off topic but I'm not sure it's correct. Trump had no interest in relinquishing power, and the only thing that "tells" him to go is the Electoral Count. If the Electoral Count is not completed then he remains in power.
    That the coup attempt was completely unorganised is by the by, let's say Pence was killed. He had good protection, so it was always highly unlikely but there were many tooled up MAGAs there - so it was a possibility.

    Trump laments the passing of Pence, the perpetrators are sent to death row if they're not already dead but anyway he has to appoint a new VP, say err General Flynn. Flynn presides over the count and reads out the nonsense electors from Georgia "as determined by State legislature". Flynn finds Democrat objections 'not in order'.
    That it's a constitutional nonsense at this point doesn't matter because the President and VP have de facto control over the military and so forth - and at this point the process is 'orderly'; no Democrats are trying to storm the Capitol as there are thousands of National Guard outside.
    Does Roberts still swear Biden in at that point even though there's been a rigged Electoral count against him ?

    Unlikely ( < 1%) , but I believe such a scenario was certainly possible when police lost control of the Capitol.
    Agreed. 'It couldn't possibly have succeeded' is comforting but untrue, I think.

    In any event, I'm not sure I understand the US anymore.
    Read this and tell me that you do...
    https://harpers.org/archive/2021/06/tiktok-house-collab-house-the-anxiety-of-influencers/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    Throws hand grenade and runs away...

    Newly leaked video shows a UFO disappear into the water

    https://edition.cnn.com/videos/business/2021/05/19/ufo-navy-video-jeremy-corbell-orig-jm.cnn/video/playlists/business-spacex/
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    edited May 2021

    Why does agriculture take up so much land? Perhaps you need land to grow soy to feed to cows to turn into burgers? Think about how much more efficient things would be if we concrete over the farms and turn them into nice office parks full of people mining Britcoin which we then use to buy food grown by foreign wasters happy to be inefficient.

    Yes, a sure way to a secure and prosperous future.

    Yep, the UK dedicates 71.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 0.61% of UK GDP.

    In contrast Sweden uses 6.5% of its land for agriculture to generate 1.44% of GDP.

    Norway uses 2.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 1.93% of GDP.
    I think their definition of agricultural land may be different. In theory all of northern Scandinavia could be designated as 'farmland' because it is used for reindeer grazing.

    In any case, all that tells us is that Scandinavia is not heavily populated.
    Can you name any heavily populated nation on the planet that so inefficiently wastes 71% of its land to generate below 1% of GDP?

    Japan would probably be more comparable to the UK. They dedicated 12% of land to agriculture and they get 1.14% of GDP from agriculture.

    Why is ours so inefficient compared to everyone else?
    You've got your hand on some nice stats there Philip.

    Perhaps it's do with our brand. Brit food doesn't have the best rep.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    edited May 2021

    Why does agriculture take up so much land? Perhaps you need land to grow soy to feed to cows to turn into burgers? Think about how much more efficient things would be if we concrete over the farms and turn them into nice office parks full of people mining Britcoin which we then use to buy food grown by foreign wasters happy to be inefficient.

    Yes, a sure way to a secure and prosperous future.

    Yep, the UK dedicates 71.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 0.61% of UK GDP.

    In contrast Sweden uses 6.5% of its land for agriculture to generate 1.44% of GDP.

    Norway uses 2.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 1.93% of GDP.
    I think their definition of agricultural land may be different. In theory all of northern Scandinavia could be designated as 'farmland' because it is used for reindeer grazing.

    In any case, all that tells us is that Scandinavia is not heavily populated.
    Can you name any heavily populated nation on the planet that so inefficiently wastes 71% of its land to generate below 1% of GDP?

    Japan would probably be more comparable to the UK. They dedicated 12% of land to agriculture and they get 1.14% of GDP from agriculture.

    Why is ours so inefficient compared to everyone else?
    What does Norway do with the 97.3% of land that isn't farmed, then? I bet it isn't used 'efficiently'.

    I think you need to compare actual output rather than "% GDP", which is highly misleading. How much of Japan's 'agricultural' output was fish?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    RH1992 said:

    It looks like full steam ahead for June 21 as Peston seems to think that the previous unlocking was already a mistake.....

    "Bolton’s infections data does not support Boris Johnson's unlocking optimism"

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1395699114613133316?s=19

    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-21/boltons-infections-data-does-not-support-boris-johnsons-unlocking-optimism

    (In all seriousness, the article is terrible. Completely brushes over hospitalisations remaining flat and just focuses on infections....)

    Hang on. In the article is this gem:

    "That would be less worrying if there was also a steep rise in Covid testing in Bolton. But there isn't.

    As you can see here, the ratio of positive test results to tests carried out in Bolton - the positivity ratio - is holding fairly steady at about 7.5.
    "

    So in fact their is a surge in testing, as there must be to show an increase in cases... There is no other way to generate the rise in cases. Words fail me. Can he/they be that stupid or mathmatically innumerate?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Nicola Sturgeon making clear she doesn't want the Indian variant to be called that, and will from now on call it the April-02 variant instead.

    Then goes on to say that the April-02 variant 'may be more transmissable than the Kent variant.'

    Interesting language choice. I wonder why the SNP leader doesn't call the Kent variant the December-01 variant or similar? 😂

    Daft. She should be explicitly calling it the Indian variant, and calling on Pritit Patel to deport it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited May 2021

    RH1992 said:

    It looks like full steam ahead for June 21 as Peston seems to think that the previous unlocking was already a mistake.....

    "Bolton’s infections data does not support Boris Johnson's unlocking optimism"

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1395699114613133316?s=19

    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-21/boltons-infections-data-does-not-support-boris-johnsons-unlocking-optimism

    (In all seriousness, the article is terrible. Completely brushes over hospitalisations remaining flat and just focuses on infections....)

    Hang on. In the article is this gem:

    "That would be less worrying if there was also a steep rise in Covid testing in Bolton. But there isn't.

    As you can see here, the ratio of positive test results to tests carried out in Bolton - the positivity ratio - is holding fairly steady at about 7.5.
    "

    So in fact their is a surge in testing, as there must be to show an increase in cases... There is no other way to generate the rise in cases. Words fail me. Can he/they be that stupid or mathmatically innumerate?
    Short answer, YES...he has displayed it repeated over the past 12 months.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    Severely ill - and still made to quarantine in a hotel

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-57162187

    But I choose to travel half way around the world during a global pandemic knowing these were the rules.

    Again, our hotel quarantine system is far more relaxed than many. Some its 3 weeks, some you aren't even allowed out for any fresh air for the whole time, that its if they even allow you into the country, and there are no ifs, buts and maybes.

    It's this sort of story that should have been banned from day 1. An utter disgrace from the BBC.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited May 2021
    Italy's population density is probably closest to the UK's within large nations in Europe.

    They dedicate 41.7% of land to agriculture and it generates 1.93% of GDP.
    We dedicated 71.7% of land to agriculture and it generated 0.61% of GDP.

    What would be so wrong about going down the Italian route, freeing up countless hectares across the country, while tripling our domestic agricultural output? What is the downside?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900

    Why does agriculture take up so much land? Perhaps you need land to grow soy to feed to cows to turn into burgers? Think about how much more efficient things would be if we concrete over the farms and turn them into nice office parks full of people mining Britcoin which we then use to buy food grown by foreign wasters happy to be inefficient.

    Yes, a sure way to a secure and prosperous future.

    Yep, the UK dedicates 71.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 0.61% of UK GDP.

    In contrast Sweden uses 6.5% of its land for agriculture to generate 1.44% of GDP.

    Norway uses 2.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 1.93% of GDP.
    I think their definition of agricultural land may be different. In theory all of northern Scandinavia could be designated as 'farmland' because it is used for reindeer grazing.

    In any case, all that tells us is that Scandinavia is not heavily populated.
    Can you name any heavily populated nation on the planet that so inefficiently wastes 71% of its land to generate below 1% of GDP?

    Japan would probably be more comparable to the UK. They dedicated 12% of land to agriculture and they get 1.14% of GDP from agriculture.

    Why is ours so inefficient compared to everyone else?
    Question - when you say "agricultural land" do include hills and fells used for open sheep grazing?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,189
    edited May 2021

    RH1992 said:

    It looks like full steam ahead for June 21 as Peston seems to think that the previous unlocking was already a mistake.....

    "Bolton’s infections data does not support Boris Johnson's unlocking optimism"

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1395699114613133316?s=19

    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-21/boltons-infections-data-does-not-support-boris-johnsons-unlocking-optimism

    (In all seriousness, the article is terrible. Completely brushes over hospitalisations remaining flat and just focuses on infections....)

    Hang on. In the article is this gem:

    "That would be less worrying if there was also a steep rise in Covid testing in Bolton. But there isn't.

    As you can see here, the ratio of positive test results to tests carried out in Bolton - the positivity ratio - is holding fairly steady at about 7.5.
    "

    So in fact their is a surge in testing, as there must be to show an increase in cases... There is no other way to generate the rise in cases. Words fail me. Can he/they be that stupid or mathmatically innumerate?
    Bolton is at 65.6 / 37.2% ; 57.7 / 27.8% at the start of May. It all does indicate quite a high 'R' for the India variant !
    The remedy doesn't change from previous though, just needs you need to redouble vaccination efforts.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    Throws hand grenade and runs away...

    Newly leaked video shows a UFO disappear into the water

    https://edition.cnn.com/videos/business/2021/05/19/ufo-navy-video-jeremy-corbell-orig-jm.cnn/video/playlists/business-spacex/

    I misread that as Jeremy Corbyn....
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    tlg86 said:

    Severely ill - and still made to quarantine in a hotel

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-57162187

    But I choose to travel half way around the world during a global pandemic knowing these were the rules.

    Again, our hotel quarantine system is far more relaxed than many. Some its 3 weeks, some you aren't even allowed out for any fresh air for the whole time, that its if they even allow you into the country, and there are no ifs, buts and maybes.

    It's this sort of story that should have been banned from day 1. An utter disgrace from the BBC.
    But entirely predictable.

    Can you imagine how many articles like this we'd have had if we'd done an Australia and left people stranded overseas for a year?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Pulpstar said:

    RH1992 said:

    It looks like full steam ahead for June 21 as Peston seems to think that the previous unlocking was already a mistake.....

    "Bolton’s infections data does not support Boris Johnson's unlocking optimism"

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1395699114613133316?s=19

    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-21/boltons-infections-data-does-not-support-boris-johnsons-unlocking-optimism

    (In all seriousness, the article is terrible. Completely brushes over hospitalisations remaining flat and just focuses on infections....)

    Hang on. In the article is this gem:

    "That would be less worrying if there was also a steep rise in Covid testing in Bolton. But there isn't.

    As you can see here, the ratio of positive test results to tests carried out in Bolton - the positivity ratio - is holding fairly steady at about 7.5.
    "

    So in fact their is a surge in testing, as there must be to show an increase in cases... There is no other way to generate the rise in cases. Words fail me. Can he/they be that stupid or mathmatically innumerate?
    Bolton is at 65.6 / 37.2% ; 57.7 / 27.8% at the start of May. It all does indicate quite a high 'R' for the India variant !
    The remedy doesn't change from previous though, just needs you need to redouble vaccination efforts.
    It really depends who the cases are though. If they are widely in the vaccine refusers and the youngsters who have not had the chance, then R may be being exaggerated. This is certainly my expectation.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Why does agriculture take up so much land? Perhaps you need land to grow soy to feed to cows to turn into burgers? Think about how much more efficient things would be if we concrete over the farms and turn them into nice office parks full of people mining Britcoin which we then use to buy food grown by foreign wasters happy to be inefficient.

    Yes, a sure way to a secure and prosperous future.

    Yep, the UK dedicates 71.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 0.61% of UK GDP.

    In contrast Sweden uses 6.5% of its land for agriculture to generate 1.44% of GDP.

    Norway uses 2.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 1.93% of GDP.
    I think their definition of agricultural land may be different. In theory all of northern Scandinavia could be designated as 'farmland' because it is used for reindeer grazing.

    In any case, all that tells us is that Scandinavia is not heavily populated.
    Can you name any heavily populated nation on the planet that so inefficiently wastes 71% of its land to generate below 1% of GDP?

    Japan would probably be more comparable to the UK. They dedicated 12% of land to agriculture and they get 1.14% of GDP from agriculture.

    Why is ours so inefficient compared to everyone else?
    Question - when you say "agricultural land" do include hills and fells used for open sheep grazing?
    I would assume yes. Though its comparing like for like, so any Italian or Japanese or other hills used for grazing would be included in their figures too.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    Fair point.

    Kraft "cheese" and stuff like that probably doesn't do America's reputation much good. 😂
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited May 2021

    tlg86 said:

    Severely ill - and still made to quarantine in a hotel

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-57162187

    But I choose to travel half way around the world during a global pandemic knowing these were the rules.

    Again, our hotel quarantine system is far more relaxed than many. Some its 3 weeks, some you aren't even allowed out for any fresh air for the whole time, that its if they even allow you into the country, and there are no ifs, buts and maybes.

    It's this sort of story that should have been banned from day 1. An utter disgrace from the BBC.
    But entirely predictable.

    Can you imagine how many articles like this we'd have had if we'd done an Australia and left people stranded overseas for a year?
    Its weird, NZ do this, aren't they amazing, look at them with their amazing leader report the BBC...the UK eventually do something no where near as harsh, look at the UK government, what total bastards, putting kids in cages.

    And again, why are they travelling....they say to need to see a relative, do your whole extended family need to go? Especially ones with pre existing health conditions, travelling to a country with high covid rates....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited May 2021

    Why does agriculture take up so much land? Perhaps you need land to grow soy to feed to cows to turn into burgers? Think about how much more efficient things would be if we concrete over the farms and turn them into nice office parks full of people mining Britcoin which we then use to buy food grown by foreign wasters happy to be inefficient.

    Yes, a sure way to a secure and prosperous future.

    Yep, the UK dedicates 71.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 0.61% of UK GDP.

    In contrast Sweden uses 6.5% of its land for agriculture to generate 1.44% of GDP.

    Norway uses 2.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 1.93% of GDP.
    So we should waste less land growing food and import it? Perhaps some kind of open border free trade area with the places we'd then buy food from would be a good idea...
    That's one suggestion.

    Another suggestion would be that we use our land better and get more return from it and be more efficient.

    Why is it that Sweden can use 1/10th of its land as we do for agriculture, but get a better GDP return than we do?
    ...
    Probably as our GDP is five and a half times theirs, and our land area about half ?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,189
    edited May 2021

    Pulpstar said:

    RH1992 said:

    It looks like full steam ahead for June 21 as Peston seems to think that the previous unlocking was already a mistake.....

    "Bolton’s infections data does not support Boris Johnson's unlocking optimism"

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1395699114613133316?s=19

    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-21/boltons-infections-data-does-not-support-boris-johnsons-unlocking-optimism

    (In all seriousness, the article is terrible. Completely brushes over hospitalisations remaining flat and just focuses on infections....)

    Hang on. In the article is this gem:

    "That would be less worrying if there was also a steep rise in Covid testing in Bolton. But there isn't.

    As you can see here, the ratio of positive test results to tests carried out in Bolton - the positivity ratio - is holding fairly steady at about 7.5.
    "

    So in fact their is a surge in testing, as there must be to show an increase in cases... There is no other way to generate the rise in cases. Words fail me. Can he/they be that stupid or mathmatically innumerate?
    Bolton is at 65.6 / 37.2% ; 57.7 / 27.8% at the start of May. It all does indicate quite a high 'R' for the India variant !
    The remedy doesn't change from previous though, just needs you need to redouble vaccination efforts.
    It really depends who the cases are though. If they are widely in the vaccine refusers and the youngsters who have not had the chance, then R may be being exaggerated. This is certainly my expectation.
    Some element of that. When vaccinating a population you can either choose to prevent deaths OR prevent cases as a primary objective with the other falling more toward the back end of your program. Anywhere sane will choose prevention of deaths 1st but it does mean that the unvaccinated pop will be disproportionately those out and about till you get to the back-end of your program.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    Yes, I know you grew up there. I've lived there too in fact. Couple of years in Sydney. Don't recall much about the beef tbh. I do remember eating some 'bush tucker' though. I hope we're doing tariffs on that.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    edited May 2021

    Italy's population density is probably closest to the UK's within large nations in Europe.

    They dedicate 41.7% of land to agriculture and it generates 1.93% of GDP.
    We dedicated 71.7% of land to agriculture and it generated 0.61% of GDP.

    What would be so wrong about going down the Italian route, freeing up countless hectares across the country, while tripling our domestic agricultural output? What is the downside?

    Italian farming relies of quality of produce on highly productive land due to sunshine hours, rain and desirable end product with a huge and captive domestic audience.

    We won't ever make the same agricultural and food products as Italy and it won't ever be worth the same GDP as what we produce. Additionally, the UK economy is significantly more diverse than Italy. We have huge tech, financial and pharma sectors that Italy could only hope to imitate. Italy has got GDP of $2tn and falling, the UK has got GDP of $3tn and rising. 0.61% of GDP for agriculture isn't necessarily a bad thing when you take into account the sheer size of the UK economy vs others that are being compared to.

    I'm not fussed about Australian food imports, in fact I think that they will be a net benefit to the country and having been to Australia a few times the quality of their red meat is excellent, it's comparable to our own. I'm not sure you can make cross country comparisons on the agricultural economic contribution as those numbers are, IMO, fairly useless in isolation.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    DUP leader Poots opposes Australia trade deal

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1395680111463223296?s=20

    The Truss's leadership prospects are surely in tatters. The Tories would never risk her - an absolutely vilified character within Britain's rural communities. Truss the Farmer's Cuss she'll be known as.
    Dunno about that. The Tory members in the SE couldn’t give a damn about the farmers.
    Everyone knows that the "countryside" is to stop plebs building houses, not for things like "farming". Don't be ridiculous.
    I'm beginning to think some people don't know what "food security" means.
    How does banning perfectly safe, perfectly scientific, well tested hormone supplements aid our food security?

    Especially considering that the hormone supplement ban was protectionist unscientific bullshit that the EU imposed on us, as UK farmers were using hormone supplements until the EU instituted its ban that the UK opposed at the time in the Council of Ministers?

    Maybe the UK farmer should just go back to doing what they were before the EU started meddling, and thus improve our food security?
    Not hormones, but actually having farming and fishing industries at all in the Isles of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Yes we have an industry, it represents all of 0.61% of UK GDP while taking up 70% of UK land.

    Being made to compete with the rest of the world would force the industry to improve and become more efficient and more productive, just as happened with New Zealand when they eliminated their trade barriers and subsidies.

    An improved and more efficient agriculture industry would improve our security, wouldn't it?
    You won’t be happy until we’re eating dog food
    Why would we eat dog food?

    Have you ever eaten Australian meat? Its excellent top quality.

    Your xenophobia at imports is weird, especially while seeing 27 other nations getting free access to export their meat to us zero tariffs, zero quotas.
    They have lower standards then we do. 'OLB' post on PT has examples. Or if you want an even better authority - the best let's be honest - there's Mark Drakeford. But it won't bother you and that's perfectly understandable. This whole thing is bespoke tailored to push all your buttons.

    Free trade. Free free free. No quotas or tariffs. Deregulated mangy beef. Don't like it? So don't eat it then. Problem solved. Choice. The market pure and simple. And omg Australia. Red on the map. Trad Commonwealth. Five eyes. FAMILY.

    7th Heaven in other words.

    I rarely succeed in changing your view on anything but I sometimes like to try. Not here though. It'd be too close to the bone.
    "Mangy beef"?

    I used to live there you forget, I grew up downunder.

    American food is shit, when you talk about shit food and you're talking about American deals you have a point. Australian meat is top nosh. Great quality.

    Has anyone on this site ever gone to Australia, eaten beef there and thought "urgh this is mangy dog food shit"? Don't be ridiculous.
    As someone who has lived in the US and eats American cooking (as provided by the Wife) every day I beg to differ.
    Fair point.

    Kraft "cheese" and stuff like that probably doesn't do America's reputation much good. 😂
    Like culture, the US exports the lowest common denominator, and keeps the good stuff for itself. Anyone who has been to New York City (or and of the large cities) and said "the food is shit here" probably spent whole trip in a hospital.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    DavidL said:

    As a republican I am of course the true first, whatever the evidence may indicate.

    I'm a republican too: Let's ease the royal family back into a (very) ordinary place in our social tapestry.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Nigelb said:

    Why does agriculture take up so much land? Perhaps you need land to grow soy to feed to cows to turn into burgers? Think about how much more efficient things would be if we concrete over the farms and turn them into nice office parks full of people mining Britcoin which we then use to buy food grown by foreign wasters happy to be inefficient.

    Yes, a sure way to a secure and prosperous future.

    Yep, the UK dedicates 71.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 0.61% of UK GDP.

    In contrast Sweden uses 6.5% of its land for agriculture to generate 1.44% of GDP.

    Norway uses 2.7% of land to agricultural use in order to generate 1.93% of GDP.
    So we should waste less land growing food and import it? Perhaps some kind of open border free trade area with the places we'd then buy food from would be a good idea...
    That's one suggestion.

    Another suggestion would be that we use our land better and get more return from it and be more efficient.

    Why is it that Sweden can use 1/10th of its land as we do for agriculture, but get a better GDP return than we do?
    ...
    Probably as our GDP is five and a half times theirs, and our land area about half ?
    That still leaves the UK as being inefficient, by more than half (without considering the fact our extra population should see more GDP anyway.

    Let alone comparing with the likes of Italy and Japan with much more comparable population densities were the same thing is very much the case.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Pulpstar said:

    RH1992 said:

    It looks like full steam ahead for June 21 as Peston seems to think that the previous unlocking was already a mistake.....

    "Bolton’s infections data does not support Boris Johnson's unlocking optimism"

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1395699114613133316?s=19

    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-21/boltons-infections-data-does-not-support-boris-johnsons-unlocking-optimism

    (In all seriousness, the article is terrible. Completely brushes over hospitalisations remaining flat and just focuses on infections....)

    Hang on. In the article is this gem:

    "That would be less worrying if there was also a steep rise in Covid testing in Bolton. But there isn't.

    As you can see here, the ratio of positive test results to tests carried out in Bolton - the positivity ratio - is holding fairly steady at about 7.5.
    "

    So in fact their is a surge in testing, as there must be to show an increase in cases... There is no other way to generate the rise in cases. Words fail me. Can he/they be that stupid or mathmatically innumerate?
    Bolton is at 65.6 / 37.2% ; 57.7 / 27.8% at the start of May. It all does indicate quite a high 'R' for the India variant !
    The remedy doesn't change from previous though, just needs you need to redouble vaccination efforts.
    It really depends who the cases are though. If they are widely in the vaccine refusers and the youngsters who have not had the chance, then R may be being exaggerated. This is certainly my expectation.
    It doesn't necessarily imply a high R for the variant, it may just imply crowded living conditions and a number of multi-generational houses in Bolton.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Pro_Rata said:

    As the official nicknaming of the Variant Under Investigation found around Sheffield, may I humbly suggest God's Own Corone.

    Sounds reasonable, since Sir Patrick Stewart has objected to the term Yorkshire Triple Mutant.
This discussion has been closed.