EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
There are lots of exceptions - travel for work is one of them.
Also, it's very interesting to note that not a single one of these "concerned scientists" has presented any shred of evidence that the Indian variant evades the vaccine to any degree. The test is actually fairly simple as labs already have antibody samples from vaccinated people and testing that against the Indian variant in host bodies such as mice and getting a gauge on neutralisation should happen within a couple of weeks.
If there was any serious evidence for vaccine escape by this variant we'd already know as hordes of old people in care homes in Harrow, Leicester, Ealing and Wembley would have started dying.
In my noble desire to expose myself to the *best* of Birmingham, I have just discovered their Symphony Hall
How? How could any city outside Saddam Hussein’s Iraq erect such a hideous wart, surrounded by similar warts? Why are British cities so bad at this? How did London, almost uniquely, escape?
Not great from the outside, but the acoustics are fantastic, and inside the hall itself looks pretty good.
To be fair the Brummies know it’s fugly, and they are ripping down the facade
How many times can a city tear down and rebuild its centre, until they realise the Germans are right? Just replace everything with an exact facsimile of the city centre in about 1890
So you expect London to tear down the Gherkin etc?
That 1890 cutoff would mean tearing down a lot of London's Imperial architecture, too. BBC, Adastral House, much of Whitehall, the Cenotaph, Waterloo (er, negotiable), etc. And much of the Underground, its Frank Pick logos, stations, etc.
In partial defence of modern architecture, my opinion is that since 2000, the vast majority of Manchester's architecture has been better than what it replaced. Quite a lot of it has even been better than what was there 130 years ago. It was the 1955-1979 period in which we really uglified our cities.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
There are lots of exceptions - travel for work is one of them.
Not for job interviews. Only for essential work.
'The Home Office claimed the new rules were clear and could be easily checked online. “We require evidence of an individual’s right to live and work in the UK,” a spokesperson said. Yet Home Office advice explicitly states that visitors without work visas may “attend meetings, conferences, seminars, interviews” and “negotiate and sign deals and contracts”.' - Graun piece.
He's just fucking around like he did with "No Deal" Brexit. Playing with expectations and seeking to control the atmosphere and the narrative. There is zero to worry about.
Cases of the Indian variant have tripled in, what, a week? Hospitalisations have plateaued
Unfortunately there is something to worry about. I wish there wasn’t
What we really need is conclusive proof that the vaccines (esp the one we use so much: AZ) are really good against this new form of the Bug, and prevent nearly all serious cases etc. Probably the vaccines are as good, but I haven’t seen definitive evidence, yet
Sorry, I didn't mean it in that way, that Covid is in the past. It certainly isn't. The global pandemic rages and there could be blowback here at some point. What I mean is, there is virtually no risk of the roadmap not being stuck to. The short term domestic outlook is pretty secure. Post June 21 life here will be close to normal. You can always read this & that into the naunces of what various people say but (as with vaxports and digital id tracking etc) you'll be fretting unnecessarily. Which is a good approach, I suppose, since then you get a pleasant surprise. So ignore me.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Did they have evidence they were attending an interview? Or did they just say they were?
Be difficult to find the interview venue, get past security on the desk, etc., if they didn't have the bumf whether paper or on their mobeys.
Sure. But there’s probably a rule somewhere saying they need an official letter to invite them to interview. In which case they are an idiot for not checking.
Or it could be this is the latest scam by Romanians or Bulgarians to enter illegally
They'll both happen on time. By the time we get to June 21st there will be just a handful of cases per day among the unvaccinated, there's no way we can delay unlockdown because of people who have refused the vaccine. The government target of one dose per person by July 31st is laughable, we have the supply to get every single person done once by the end of this month but it just leaves us at the mercy of supply chains for second doses. June 21st is a reasonably good target for 95% of 53m adults having had their first dose and end of July for 95% of 53m adults having had both doses.
If you take the few towns and cities were cases are still spreading in any meaningful numbers, then how much vaccine would it take to offer first doses to everyone remaining before the end of this month?
If cases are 20x more prevalent in Bolton than Bath it makes more sense to be vaccinating a 20 year old in Bolton than a 38 year old in Bath.
We're probably already at herd immunity levels nationwide, but crush the virus with surge vaccination past where its still circulating.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
There are lots of exceptions - travel for work is one of them.
Not for job interviews. Only for essential work.
'The Home Office claimed the new rules were clear and could be easily checked online. “We require evidence of an individual’s right to live and work in the UK,” a spokesperson said. Yet Home Office advice explicitly states that visitors without work visas may “attend meetings, conferences, seminars, interviews” and “negotiate and sign deals and contracts”.' - Graun piece.
We're talking about the UK ban for travelling abroad.
And honestly, travelling for a job interview? Haven't they heard of zoom.
In my noble desire to expose myself to the *best* of Birmingham, I have just discovered their Symphony Hall
How? How could any city outside Saddam Hussein’s Iraq erect such a hideous wart, surrounded by similar warts? Why are British cities so bad at this? How did London, almost uniquely, escape?
Not great from the outside, but the acoustics are fantastic, and inside the hall itself looks pretty good.
To be fair the Brummies know it’s fugly, and they are ripping down the facade
How many times can a city tear down and rebuild its centre, until they realise the Germans are right? Just replace everything with an exact facsimile of the city centre in about 1890
So you expect London to tear down the Gherkin etc?
That 1890 cutoff would mean tearing down a lot of London's Imperial architecture, too. BBC, Adastral House, much of Whitehall, the Cenotaph, Waterloo (er, negotiable), etc. And much of the Underground, its Frank Pick logos, stations, etc.
In partial defence of modern architecture, my opinion is that since 2000, the vast majority of Manchester's architecture has been better than what it replaced. Quite a lot of it has even been better than what was there 130 years ago. It was the 1955-1979 period in which we really uglified our cities.
Uglified our cities? The English language too, apparently.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
I am resigned to restrictions for the foreseeable future = years. There will always be a ‘variant of concern’. True unlockdown will forever recede as we approach, much like the British summer
I am utterly sick of this. I can't deal with restrictions any more and this has already ruined my day. That being said, what Boris Johnson actually said (as reported in the Guardian live blog) was:
"f we have to do other things, then of course the public would want us to rule nothing out. We have always been clear we would be led by the data. At the moment, I can see nothing that dissuades me from thinking we will be able to go ahead on Monday and indeed on 21 June, everywhere, but there may be things we have to do locally and we will not hesitate to do them if that is the advice we get."
I honestly don't see any way he could have sanely been more bullish on unlocking in what he's said today, given where he's starting from. Of course, I'd have liked him to say "you know what, I'm sick of all this. No more rules. Do what you want." But based on the positions he's set out and the interests he's trying to balance, I can't object to what he's said. Bear in mind, he's always been keen to stress the 'at the earliest'; he's simply repeating what he's been saying since February.
I'm not concerned by rising positive tests. I am slightly concerned by decline in hospitalisations stopping, though too early to worry too much yet. And if hospitalisations stay at about 100 indefinitely, that is not a level which need concern us. I understand the worry that a pause in decline might be a precursor to a rise, but there is no reason to assume one will follow from the other, particularly given ongoing vaccination.
Anyway, to cheerier matters: architecture: it's always slightly jarring to visit Europe and see cities which were destroyed in the war which have been reconstructed. I'm not saying it shouldn't happen - of, course, it should happen - but it is so far outside of British architectural experience, which would be horrified by such an approach. It's slightly surprising even to realise it can be done. On a much smaller scale, a house near where I live - a pleasant but unremarkable late Victorian semi - unfortunately fell down after a clumsy builder failed to prop the walls up adequately when doing a knock through. It's been rebuilt, and extended, to exactly the same outward design - but of course using new bricks, fenestration, etc. It looks absolutely brilliant - presumably as good as it did when it was first built. Probably the most handsome house on the street: better than anything built in the last 120 years, but also fresher than anything built before that. It makes you wonder why we can't build all new houses like that. Again, you just get used to the assumption that it can't be done; but of course it can.
Further to the above, there was a story from the 80s about a delegation of German burghers visiting Derby. On touring the town with bigwigs from the council, they expressed horror and sadness: what a terrible thing the war was; there was much destruction in Germany too; we are so sorry that these terrible events ever happened. The Derby contingent cheerfully explained that actually Derby City Centre had got off pretty lightly in the war and had actually remained a pretty handsome town, and the mess of concrete they saw in front of them was the entirely self-inflicted result of 1960s planning and architecture.
Reminds me of when I took a visiting group from the German Post Office to lunch down Old Street in the 1990s, and they were puzzled about and asking what had happened to the then ruined church on the north side of the road (now brilliantly refurbished as an outpost for the LSO). When they understood, they were even more amazed that in relatively central London it had been left like that for more than fifty years.
The Bombed Out Church in Liverpool has been deliberately left as it was. It stands now as a memorial to what happened and the thousands that died in the war, rather than simply not bothering to repair it.
I hope the Church is never refurbished. I doubt it will be.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
In my noble desire to expose myself to the *best* of Birmingham, I have just discovered their Symphony Hall
How? How could any city outside Saddam Hussein’s Iraq erect such a hideous wart, surrounded by similar warts? Why are British cities so bad at this? How did London, almost uniquely, escape?
Not great from the outside, but the acoustics are fantastic, and inside the hall itself looks pretty good.
To be fair the Brummies know it’s fugly, and they are ripping down the facade
How many times can a city tear down and rebuild its centre, until they realise the Germans are right? Just replace everything with an exact facsimile of the city centre in about 1890
So you expect London to tear down the Gherkin etc?
That 1890 cutoff would mean tearing down a lot of London's Imperial architecture, too. BBC, Adastral House, much of Whitehall, the Cenotaph, Waterloo (er, negotiable), etc. And much of the Underground, its Frank Pick logos, stations, etc.
In partial defence of modern architecture, my opinion is that since 2000, the vast majority of Manchester's architecture has been better than what it replaced. Quite a lot of it has even been better than what was there 130 years ago. It was the 1955-1979 period in which we really uglified our cities.
I'm coincidentally reading a history of railway architecture and that is very much the feeling I'm getting almost from the very start. Shite modular architecture on BR, for instance, even on little country stations.
But it also makes the point there was a big backlog of general old age, decay and damage after the war, a century's worth of soot hiding the beauties of architecture, etc. Not to mention Beeching and the cuts before his Plan.
Even sprucing existing buildings up in the 1980s helped enormously.
In my noble desire to expose myself to the *best* of Birmingham, I have just discovered their Symphony Hall
How? How could any city outside Saddam Hussein’s Iraq erect such a hideous wart, surrounded by similar warts? Why are British cities so bad at this? How did London, almost uniquely, escape?
Not great from the outside, but the acoustics are fantastic, and inside the hall itself looks pretty good.
To be fair the Brummies know it’s fugly, and they are ripping down the facade
How many times can a city tear down and rebuild its centre, until they realise the Germans are right? Just replace everything with an exact facsimile of the city centre in about 1890
So you expect London to tear down the Gherkin etc?
That 1890 cutoff would mean tearing down a lot of London's Imperial architecture, too. BBC, Adastral House, much of Whitehall, the Cenotaph, Waterloo (er, negotiable), etc. And much of the Underground, its Frank Pick logos, stations, etc.
In partial defence of modern architecture, my opinion is that since 2000, the vast majority of Manchester's architecture has been better than what it replaced. Quite a lot of it has even been better than what was there 130 years ago. It was the 1955-1979 period in which we really uglified our cities.
I remember in my small provincial English city, in the 1970s, being mystified when the council tore down spectacular Tudor and Georgian buildings. Replacing them with mediocre offices
At the age of 12 I just knew this was wrong
A lot of it was petty provincial corruption, backhanders between developers and councilors. Tragic
I had coffee last week with the CEO of one of the national care home chains. He doesn’t blame the government for the decision to move people from hospitals to care homes
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
The two examples they highlight were clearly at fault. They were looking for jobs, not coming for a job interview.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
There are lots of exceptions - travel for work is one of them.
Not for job interviews. Only for essential work.
'The Home Office claimed the new rules were clear and could be easily checked online. “We require evidence of an individual’s right to live and work in the UK,” a spokesperson said. Yet Home Office advice explicitly states that visitors without work visas may “attend meetings, conferences, seminars, interviews” and “negotiate and sign deals and contracts”.' - Graun piece.
All you little puppies obediently took your little experimental vaccines thinking you would be free.
June 21! freedom!
Nope.
You stupid, stupid boobies.
Except the PM himself has said he sees nothing that dissuades him from continuing with the plan.
Since when has there been an expectation that Boris tells the truth? He's a politician, and it's easy to spot when they're lying; it's the moving lips that gives it away.
They'll both happen on time. By the time we get to June 21st there will be just a handful of cases per day among the unvaccinated, there's no way we can delay unlockdown because of people who have refused the vaccine. The government target of one dose per person by July 31st is laughable, we have the supply to get every single person done once by the end of this month but it just leaves us at the mercy of supply chains for second doses. June 21st is a reasonably good target for 95% of 53m adults having had their first dose and end of July for 95% of 53m adults having had both doses.
If you take the few towns and cities were cases are still spreading in any meaningful numbers, then how much vaccine would it take to offer first doses to everyone remaining before the end of this month?
If cases are 20x more prevalent in Bolton than Bath it makes more sense to be vaccinating a 20 year old in Bolton than a 38 year old in Bath.
We're probably already at herd immunity levels nationwide, but crush the virus with surge vaccination past where its still circulating.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
There are lots of exceptions - travel for work is one of them.
Not for job interviews. Only for essential work.
'The Home Office claimed the new rules were clear and could be easily checked online. “We require evidence of an individual’s right to live and work in the UK,” a spokesperson said. Yet Home Office advice explicitly states that visitors without work visas may “attend meetings, conferences, seminars, interviews” and “negotiate and sign deals and contracts”.' - Graun piece.
We're talking about the UK ban for travelling abroad.
And honestly, travelling for a job interview? Haven't they heard of zoom.
Are we? THread looks awfully like one on the treatment of EU trtavellers and the confusion over what is permitted. # Edit: Interviews etc. does surprise me, too, and I don't like it either, but if the HO says it is copacetic, what's not to believe?
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
There are lots of exceptions - travel for work is one of them.
Not for job interviews. Only for essential work.
'The Home Office claimed the new rules were clear and could be easily checked online. “We require evidence of an individual’s right to live and work in the UK,” a spokesperson said. Yet Home Office advice explicitly states that visitors without work visas may “attend meetings, conferences, seminars, interviews” and “negotiate and sign deals and contracts”.' - Graun piece.
So do they have evidence of such interview?
Isn't it more likely the Guardian immediately fell for their sob stories without actually checking?
The government said it was going slowly because it wanted this to be the last lockdown.
Today has shown that to be what it is. A barefaced lie. They are ruling nothing out. If this was the last lockdown, they would be ruling out some things, including another lockdown.
The truth is they are terrified of SAGE.
Right now people who are unaccountable, unanswerable, whose science is disputed and whose predictions have been utterly junked on many occasions, are deciding our fate. People who who are in some cases not even experts in epidemiology, but communist psychologists with another agenda so obvious its untrue.
And you guys think this is OK. I don't know how dangerous covid is, but i do know how dangerous your attitudes are.
If you want something to be frightened of, look at the hospitals waiting lists. Trying seeing your GP.
If you want something else to be frightened of, look at the coming economic tsunami that is the result of these utterly devastating and ludicrous lockdowns.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
The two examples they highlight were clearly at fault. They were looking for jobs, not coming for a job interview.
They'll both happen on time. By the time we get to June 21st there will be just a handful of cases per day among the unvaccinated, there's no way we can delay unlockdown because of people who have refused the vaccine. The government target of one dose per person by July 31st is laughable, we have the supply to get every single person done once by the end of this month but it just leaves us at the mercy of supply chains for second doses. June 21st is a reasonably good target for 95% of 53m adults having had their first dose and end of July for 95% of 53m adults having had both doses.
If you take the few towns and cities were cases are still spreading in any meaningful numbers, then how much vaccine would it take to offer first doses to everyone remaining before the end of this month?
If cases are 20x more prevalent in Bolton than Bath it makes more sense to be vaccinating a 20 year old in Bolton than a 38 year old in Bath.
We're probably already at herd immunity levels nationwide, but crush the virus with surge vaccination past where its still circulating.
Yes, I agree - and I expect that discreetly, that approach will be taken.
A slight tweak to what MaxPB says above - is there an intention to get all adults offered a first jab by three weeks before June 21st (to allow for the immunity to build)? It would be a bit inconsistent having banged on so far through that you don't get your immunity as soon as you had your jab to have release day as the day the last adult is offered his jab.
The government said it was going slowly because it wanted this to be the last lockdown.
Today has shown that to be what it is. A barefaced lie. They are ruling nothing out. If this was the last lockdown, they would be ruling out some things, including another lockdown.
The truth is they are terrified of SAGE.
Right now people who are unaccountable, unanswerable, whose science is disputed and whose predictions have been utterly junked on many occasions, are deciding our fate. People who who are in some cases not even experts in epidemiology, but communist psychologists with another agenda so obvious its untrue.
And you guys think this is OK. I don't know how dangerous covid is, but i do know how dangerous your attitudes are.
If you want something to be frightened of, look at the hospitals waiting lists. Trying seeing your GP.
If you want something else to be frightened of, look at the coming economic tsunami that is the result of these utterly devastating effects ludicrous lockdowns.
I'm sorry, but what has shown this to be a barefaced lie? The statements all indicate that there is no change in the plan.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
The two examples they highlight were clearly at fault. They were looking for jobs, not coming for a job interview.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
The two examples they highlight were clearly at fault. They were looking for jobs, not coming for a job interview.
During a pandemic?
Yet permitted by the HO. I know, I know.
That's the dumb thing about this story. The restrictions outbound should be applied inbound too.
The problem for Northern Ireland is that plenty of the people who live there don't care about the place. So I'm not sure why I should.
On the contrary, I think they care too much, at least about matters that others find hard to understand.
Okay, that's probably true too.
Of course, one of the ironies in all of this is that Sinn Fein and the party's voters cannot complain about Brexit and the border down the Irish Sea.
Of course, NI voted to Remain in 2016.
It's no good saying "NI voted to Remain". Northern Irish voters aren't fungible such that a simple majority is decisive and they split into two largely polarised communities; that's why we have the GFA in the first place.
A majority of unionists voted to Leave. A majority of nationalist voted to Remain. So the province split along secretarian lines and any Brexit solution needs to address the concerns of both.
The government said it was going slowly because it wanted this to be the last lockdown.
Today has shown that to be what it is. A barefaced lie. They are ruling nothing out. If this was the last lockdown, they would be ruling out some things, including another lockdown.
The truth is they are terrified of SAGE.
Right now people who are unaccountable, unanswerable, whose science is disputed and whose predictions have been utterly junked on many occasions, are deciding our fate. People who who are in some cases not even experts in epidemiology, but communist psychologists with another agenda so obvious its untrue.
And you guys think this is OK. I don't know how dangerous covid is, but i do know how dangerous your attitudes are.
If you want something to be frightened of, look at the hospitals waiting lists. Trying seeing your GP.
If you want something else to be frightened of, look at the coming economic tsunami that is the result of these utterly devastating effects ludicrous lockdowns.
I'm sorry, but what has shown this to be a barefaced lie? The statements all indicate that there is no change in the plan.
He's just fucking around like he did with "No Deal" Brexit. Playing with expectations and seeking to control the atmosphere and the narrative. There is zero to worry about.
Slightly more than zero, but I essentially agree. I would be surprised if restrictions are not lifted as scheduled in June.
I wish there'd been betting markets on some of this stuff. Impossible to define with enough precision, I guess.
Yes, zero as in very small chance of roadmap delay. Don't blame people getting twitchy though. Case of "believe it when I see it" with them and I can understand why. It's been a trial and a tribulation.
The government said it was going slowly because it wanted this to be the last lockdown.
Today has shown that to be what it is. A barefaced lie. They are ruling nothing out. If this was the last lockdown, they would be ruling out some things, including another lockdown.
The truth is they are terrified of SAGE.
Right now people who are unaccountable, unanswerable, whose science is disputed and whose predictions have been utterly junked on many occasions, are deciding our fate. People who who are in some cases not even experts in epidemiology, but communist psychologists with another agenda so obvious its untrue.
And you guys think this is OK. I don't know how dangerous covid is, but i do know how dangerous your attitudes are.
If you want something to be frightened of, look at the hospitals waiting lists. Trying seeing your GP.
If you want something else to be frightened of, look at the coming economic tsunami that is the result of these utterly devastating effects ludicrous lockdowns.
I'm sorry, but what has shown this to be a barefaced lie? The statements all indicate that there is no change in the plan.
Are they ruling out another lockdown? no.
So how can this be the last lockdown?
Why would they ever rule things out, on any subject? The quote from the PM was quite clear that there is no change in course.
Given that around 80-90m EU citizens will be vaccinated with AZ it seems unlikely in the extreme that it isn't also on the universally accepted list. It also has full authorisation from the EMA. I expect this is a journalist getting over excited about the brexit vaccine being excluded.
I'm one of those wearied out by NI. I know that's wrong, but it just seems like the power players on both sides don't want to bring things up unless it advances their political agendas, as otherwise they want to move on and not talk about things, and those power players alternately go from lamenting no one cares, to telling anyone from outside not to opine on the place. And the public pick those people. So many things have already been swept under the carpet - deliberately and with eyes open - so to the layman it does seem strange which bits do not.
So I know it's wrong to not care, and that cyclefree is right there is plenty to be said and learnt. But she is right that it won't
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
The government said it was going slowly because it wanted this to be the last lockdown.
Today has shown that to be what it is. A barefaced lie. They are ruling nothing out. If this was the last lockdown, they would be ruling out some things, including another lockdown.
The truth is they are terrified of SAGE.
Right now people who are unaccountable, unanswerable, whose science is disputed and whose predictions have been utterly junked on many occasions, are deciding our fate. People who who are in some cases not even experts in epidemiology, but communist psychologists with another agenda so obvious its untrue.
And you guys think this is OK. I don't know how dangerous covid is, but i do know how dangerous your attitudes are.
If you want something to be frightened of, look at the hospitals waiting lists. Trying seeing your GP.
If you want something else to be frightened of, look at the coming economic tsunami that is the result of these utterly devastating effects ludicrous lockdowns.
I'm sorry, but what has shown this to be a barefaced lie? The statements all indicate that there is no change in the plan.
Many of us are scarred by the government’s vacillations in the past, when nervous hints often became reality
Given that around 80-90m EU citizens will be vaccinated with AZ it seems unlikely in the extreme that it isn't also on the universally accepted list. It also has full authorisation from the EMA. I expect this is a journalist getting over excited about the brexit vaccine being excluded.
The article doesn't mention which vaccines are on which list. Is there another source @Chameleon ?
In my noble desire to expose myself to the *best* of Birmingham, I have just discovered their Symphony Hall
How? How could any city outside Saddam Hussein’s Iraq erect such a hideous wart, surrounded by similar warts? Why are British cities so bad at this? How did London, almost uniquely, escape?
Not great from the outside, but the acoustics are fantastic, and inside the hall itself looks pretty good.
To be fair the Brummies know it’s fugly, and they are ripping down the facade
How many times can a city tear down and rebuild its centre, until they realise the Germans are right? Just replace everything with an exact facsimile of the city centre in about 1890
So you expect London to tear down the Gherkin etc?
That 1890 cutoff would mean tearing down a lot of London's Imperial architecture, too. BBC, Adastral House, much of Whitehall, the Cenotaph, Waterloo (er, negotiable), etc. And much of the Underground, its Frank Pick logos, stations, etc.
In partial defence of modern architecture, my opinion is that since 2000, the vast majority of Manchester's architecture has been better than what it replaced. Quite a lot of it has even been better than what was there 130 years ago. It was the 1955-1979 period in which we really uglified our cities.
I remember in my small provincial English city, in the 1970s, being mystified when the council tore down spectacular Tudor and Georgian buildings. Replacing them with mediocre offices
At the age of 12 I just knew this was wrong
A lot of it was petty provincial corruption, backhanders between developers and councilors. Tragic
I think it's even more tragic than that. A lot of it was emperor's-new-clothesism. People liked new buildings, not old, because that's what people who were sophisticated liked.
Nice to see the Jehovah's Witnesses adapting (I presume) to Covid times - just had a letter from them telling me about the Good News, with a QR code to a short video on some answers. I've never used a QR code, but nice to see them building their online content.
I am resigned to restrictions for the foreseeable future = years. There will always be a ‘variant of concern’. True unlockdown will forever recede as we approach, much like the British summer
I am utterly sick of this. I can't deal with restrictions any more and this has already ruined my day. That being said, what Boris Johnson actually said (as reported in the Guardian live blog) was:
"f we have to do other things, then of course the public would want us to rule nothing out. We have always been clear we would be led by the data. At the moment, I can see nothing that dissuades me from thinking we will be able to go ahead on Monday and indeed on 21 June, everywhere, but there may be things we have to do locally and we will not hesitate to do them if that is the advice we get."
I honestly don't see any way he could have sanely been more bullish on unlocking in what he's said today, given where he's starting from. Of course, I'd have liked him to say "you know what, I'm sick of all this. No more rules. Do what you want." But based on the positions he's set out and the interests he's trying to balance, I can't object to what he's said. Bear in mind, he's always been keen to stress the 'at the earliest'; he's simply repeating what he's been saying since February.
I'm not concerned by rising positive tests. I am slightly concerned by decline in hospitalisations stopping, though too early to worry too much yet. And if hospitalisations stay at about 100 indefinitely, that is not a level which need concern us. I understand the worry that a pause in decline might be a precursor to a rise, but there is no reason to assume one will follow from the other, particularly given ongoing vaccination.
Anyway, to cheerier matters: architecture: it's always slightly jarring to visit Europe and see cities which were destroyed in the war which have been reconstructed. I'm not saying it shouldn't happen - of, course, it should happen - but it is so far outside of British architectural experience, which would be horrified by such an approach. It's slightly surprising even to realise it can be done. On a much smaller scale, a house near where I live - a pleasant but unremarkable late Victorian semi - unfortunately fell down after a clumsy builder failed to prop the walls up adequately when doing a knock through. It's been rebuilt, and extended, to exactly the same outward design - but of course using new bricks, fenestration, etc. It looks absolutely brilliant - presumably as good as it did when it was first built. Probably the most handsome house on the street: better than anything built in the last 120 years, but also fresher than anything built before that. It makes you wonder why we can't build all new houses like that. Again, you just get used to the assumption that it can't be done; but of course it can.
Further to the above, there was a story from the 80s about a delegation of German burghers visiting Derby. On touring the town with bigwigs from the council, they expressed horror and sadness: what a terrible thing the war was; there was much destruction in Germany too; we are so sorry that these terrible events ever happened. The Derby contingent cheerfully explained that actually Derby City Centre had got off pretty lightly in the war and had actually remained a pretty handsome town, and the mess of concrete they saw in front of them was the entirely self-inflicted result of 1960s planning and architecture.
Reminds me of when I took a visiting group from the German Post Office to lunch down Old Street in the 1990s, and they were puzzled about and asking what had happened to the then ruined church on the north side of the road (now brilliantly refurbished as an outpost for the LSO). When they understood, they were even more amazed that in relatively central London it had been left like that for more than fifty years.
I love that Plymouth left St Charles in ruins (or, more accurately, partially restored only) in the Charles Cross roundabout. To me, it is a wonderful memorial to the Blitz.
There are a lot of caveats and assumptions on this one, but I *think* the UK is about to pass a milestone. Sometime this week, we will have domestically produced more COVID vaccine doses than we have imported. This from pretty much a standing start in terms of vaccine capacity.
In my noble desire to expose myself to the *best* of Birmingham, I have just discovered their Symphony Hall
How? How could any city outside Saddam Hussein’s Iraq erect such a hideous wart, surrounded by similar warts? Why are British cities so bad at this? How did London, almost uniquely, escape?
Not great from the outside, but the acoustics are fantastic, and inside the hall itself looks pretty good.
To be fair the Brummies know it’s fugly, and they are ripping down the facade
How many times can a city tear down and rebuild its centre, until they realise the Germans are right? Just replace everything with an exact facsimile of the city centre in about 1890
So you expect London to tear down the Gherkin etc?
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
The two examples they highlight were clearly at fault. They were looking for jobs, not coming for a job interview.
During a pandemic?
Yet permitted by the HO. I know, I know.
The HO doesn't say that coming to look for work is permitted.
According to that link coming for a meeting etc is permitted, but coming to browse and find work is not.
The government said it was going slowly because it wanted this to be the last lockdown.
Today has shown that to be what it is. A barefaced lie. They are ruling nothing out. If this was the last lockdown, they would be ruling out some things, including another lockdown.
The truth is they are terrified of SAGE.
Right now people who are unaccountable, unanswerable, whose science is disputed and whose predictions have been utterly junked on many occasions, are deciding our fate. People who who are in some cases not even experts in epidemiology, but communist psychologists with another agenda so obvious its untrue.
And you guys think this is OK. I don't know how dangerous covid is, but i do know how dangerous your attitudes are.
If you want something to be frightened of, look at the hospitals waiting lists. Trying seeing your GP.
If you want something else to be frightened of, look at the coming economic tsunami that is the result of these utterly devastating effects ludicrous lockdowns.
I'm sorry, but what has shown this to be a barefaced lie? The statements all indicate that there is no change in the plan.
Are they ruling out another lockdown? no.
So how can this be the last lockdown?
Local lockdowns haven't been ruled out.
Nobody has talked about a further national lockdown.
In my noble desire to expose myself to the *best* of Birmingham, I have just discovered their Symphony Hall
How? How could any city outside Saddam Hussein’s Iraq erect such a hideous wart, surrounded by similar warts? Why are British cities so bad at this? How did London, almost uniquely, escape?
Not great from the outside, but the acoustics are fantastic, and inside the hall itself looks pretty good.
To be fair the Brummies know it’s fugly, and they are ripping down the facade
How many times can a city tear down and rebuild its centre, until they realise the Germans are right? Just replace everything with an exact facsimile of the city centre in about 1890
So you expect London to tear down the Gherkin etc?
Yes please
I like the Gherkin - individually a lot of these skyscrapers would not be good, but the relative distinctiveness of them together somehoe works for me.
But I don't understand what people in the 50s and 60s loved about concrete. Aesthetically at least.
Given that around 80-90m EU citizens will be vaccinated with AZ it seems unlikely in the extreme that it isn't also on the universally accepted list. It also has full authorisation from the EMA. I expect this is a journalist getting over excited about the brexit vaccine being excluded.
Spain, to take a significant example, has been explicit that they are desperate to get British tourists back. We are their biggest market
‘Speaking on Wednesday at the launch of an €8m campaign to lure back visitors, María Reyes Maroto said Spain was opening up again and was particularly keen for the return of UK holidaymakers.’
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
But the article clearlty states r this is happeningn as does one person from a NGO quoted. I suspect the lack of quotes is cos the actual interviewees don't want comebacks.
Edit: It also makes clear some cases are not permitted anyway.
Irrespective of that, I'm still surprised at the HO advice permitting interviews, meetings, seminars. etc.
Given that around 80-90m EU citizens will be vaccinated with AZ it seems unlikely in the extreme that it isn't also on the universally accepted list. It also has full authorisation from the EMA. I expect this is a journalist getting over excited about the brexit vaccine being excluded.
The article doesn't mention which vaccines are on which list. Is there another source @Chameleon ?
What you are scarred by, and what the government are scarred by, is SAGE and their modus operandi. Many, many people are scarred by it and will continue to be for many years.
Frederick Forsyth said he has seen few propaganda operations, even in old soviet states, as concentrated, agressive and frankly brutal as the governments covid campaign.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also do wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards too, I expect.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
But the article clearlty states r this is happeningn as does one person from a NGO quoted. I suspect the lack of quotes is cos the actual interviewees don't want comebacks.
Edit: It also makes clear some cases are not permitted anyway.
Irrespective of that, I'm still surprised at the HO advice permitting interviews, meetings, seminars. etc.
Work is permitted, travel for work is permitted as a result.
Travel to look for work, which is what all the quotes seem to be, is not. They've broken Covid rules, zero sympathy.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
But the article clearlty states r this is happeningn as does one person from a NGO quoted. I suspect the lack of quotes is cos the actual interviewees don't want comebacks.
Irrespective of that, I'm still surprised at the HO advice permitting interviews, meetings, seminars. etc.
The article is only giving one side of the story. And as for the NGO quotes, they also don't clearly state it is happening:
“The Home Office need to explain why exploring the job market or attending an interview justifies refusing EEA nationals entry at the border when immigration rules specifically allow visitors to – among other things – attend meetings, conferences and interviews,
Exploring the job market is not permitted. They should know that.
Given that around 80-90m EU citizens will be vaccinated with AZ it seems unlikely in the extreme that it isn't also on the universally accepted list. It also has full authorisation from the EMA. I expect this is a journalist getting over excited about the brexit vaccine being excluded.
The article doesn't mention which vaccines are on which list. Is there another source @Chameleon ?
What you are scarred by, and what the government are scarred by, is SAGE and their modus operandi. Many, many people are scarred by it and will continue to be for many years.
Frederick Forsyth said he has seen few propaganda operations, even in old soviet states, as concentrated, agressive and frankly brutal as the governments covid campaign.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also do wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
Makes one proud to be British.
People are denied entry to all countries all the time.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also do wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
Makes one proud to be British.
We are in a pandemic. Those from the EU more so than us.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also do wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
Makes one proud to be British.
We are in a pandemic. Those from the EU more so than us.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also work wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
What else should be done if people have broken the law and come here illegally when its not permitted because there's a pandemic going on?
Its against the law to come here without an essential reason. "Exploring the job market" is not essential.
They could do that after the pandemic. No need to do it now while we're under lockdown and the border is closed. 🙄
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
But the article clearlty states r this is happeningn as does one person from a NGO quoted. I suspect the lack of quotes is cos the actual interviewees don't want comebacks.
Edit: It also makes clear some cases are not permitted anyway.
Irrespective of that, I'm still surprised at the HO advice permitting interviews, meetings, seminars. etc.
Work is permitted, travel for work is permitted as a result.
Travel to look for work, which is what all the quotes seem to be, is not. They've broken Covid rules, zero sympathy.
Zero Sympathy could probably have been quite a successful slogan for the whole Brexit movement, or the Leave.EU campaign.
The government said it was going slowly because it wanted this to be the last lockdown.
Today has shown that to be what it is. A barefaced lie. They are ruling nothing out. If this was the last lockdown, they would be ruling out some things, including another lockdown.
The truth is they are terrified of SAGE.
Right now people who are unaccountable, unanswerable, whose science is disputed and whose predictions have been utterly junked on many occasions, are deciding our fate. People who who are in some cases not even experts in epidemiology, but communist psychologists with another agenda so obvious its untrue.
And you guys think this is OK. I don't know how dangerous covid is, but i do know how dangerous your attitudes are.
If you want something to be frightened of, look at the hospitals waiting lists. Trying seeing your GP.
If you want something else to be frightened of, look at the coming economic tsunami that is the result of these utterly devastating effects ludicrous lockdowns.
I'm sorry, but what has shown this to be a barefaced lie? The statements all indicate that there is no change in the plan.
Are they ruling out another lockdown? no.
So how can this be the last lockdown?
Local lockdowns haven't been ruled out.
Nobody has talked about a further national lockdown.
Nobody apart from you.
We'll that is demonstrably untrue.
Professor James Naismith all over the media this very morning saying local lockdowns won't beat the Indian variant. Its a national problem, according to him
I had coffee last week with the CEO of one of the national care home chains. He doesn’t blame the government for the decision to move people from hospitals to care homes
Good to have that cleared up then. The Covid inquiry shouldn't take long if you could give us the rest of the evidence so succinctly.
The government said it was going slowly because it wanted this to be the last lockdown.
Today has shown that to be what it is. A barefaced lie. They are ruling nothing out. If this was the last lockdown, they would be ruling out some things, including another lockdown.
The truth is they are terrified of SAGE.
Right now people who are unaccountable, unanswerable, whose science is disputed and whose predictions have been utterly junked on many occasions, are deciding our fate. People who who are in some cases not even experts in epidemiology, but communist psychologists with another agenda so obvious its untrue.
And you guys think this is OK. I don't know how dangerous covid is, but i do know how dangerous your attitudes are.
If you want something to be frightened of, look at the hospitals waiting lists. Trying seeing your GP.
If you want something else to be frightened of, look at the coming economic tsunami that is the result of these utterly devastating effects ludicrous lockdowns.
I'm sorry, but what has shown this to be a barefaced lie? The statements all indicate that there is no change in the plan.
Are they ruling out another lockdown? no.
So how can this be the last lockdown?
Local lockdowns haven't been ruled out.
Nobody has talked about a further national lockdown.
Nobody apart from you.
We'll that is demonstrably untrue.
Professor James Naismith all over the media this very morning saying local lockdowns won't beat the Indian variant. Its a national problem, according to him
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also work wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
What else should be done if people have broken the law and come here illegally when its not permitted because there's a pandemic going on?
Its against the law to come here without an essential reason. "Exploring the job market" is not essential.
They could do that after the pandemic. No need to do it now while we're under lockdown and the border is closed. 🙄
"Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
[...] In other cases, visitors are clearly breaking rules, such as those now barring EU citizens from taking up unpaid internships."
In my noble desire to expose myself to the *best* of Birmingham, I have just discovered their Symphony Hall
How? How could any city outside Saddam Hussein’s Iraq erect such a hideous wart, surrounded by similar warts? Why are British cities so bad at this? How did London, almost uniquely, escape?
Not great from the outside, but the acoustics are fantastic, and inside the hall itself looks pretty good.
To be fair the Brummies know it’s fugly, and they are ripping down the facade
How many times can a city tear down and rebuild its centre, until they realise the Germans are right? Just replace everything with an exact facsimile of the city centre in about 1890
So you expect London to tear down the Gherkin etc?
Yes please
I like the Gherkin - individually a lot of these skyscrapers would not be good, but the relative distinctiveness of them together somehoe works for me.
But I don't understand what people in the 50s and 60s loved about concrete. Aesthetically at least.
Le Corbusier is to blame. Idolized by all architects, he pioneered new uses of raw concrete, called ‘beton brut’ im French, hence ‘Brutalism’
Some of his concrete ‘masterpieces’ have aged reasonably well. His priory near Lyon, the Unite in Marseille (I’ve slept in both)
But of course what kind-of-works in the sunny south of France doesn’t work in rainy Britain, where concrete stains and ages, horribly. That’s just one problem
There are a lot of caveats and assumptions on this one, but I *think* the UK is about to pass a milestone. Sometime this week, we will have domestically produced more COVID vaccine doses than we have imported. This from pretty much a standing start in terms of vaccine capacity.
Yes, from a standing start it's a huge achievement. 2021 and 2022 will see the UK turn into a vaccine superpower from a vaccine nobody. It's a really great achievement for us and great for the whole world that we're going to be providing billions of doses worth of vaccine capacity per year next year.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also do wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
Makes one proud to be British.
People are denied entry to all countries all the time.
And better way to set the tone for what will be decades of essential negotiations with your nearest neighbours than imprisoning large numbers of them, too.
It’s fifty fucking years ago. I do not believe anyone alive is crippled by anguish and grief over this
For context, Ballymurphy was longer ago from now than the Dunmanway Killings which PREDATED the Irish Civil War, was from Ballymurphy.
Big bloody deal. Look at the ages of the people in the photos. The idea that the only people crippled by anguish are about to die is simply not true. The fact that the anguish of the deaths has been compounded by the years of denial and refusal to tell the truth is what makes this contemporary and real and important - and not just to the immediate victims and their families. The same thing is happening now. Ask the family of Lyra McKee or the police officer so nearly killed.
The attitudes and approaches which allow this to happen also allow the indifference and years of denial to other victims of injustice by the state or other official authorities. Let me think of some examples: ah yes - the Windrush victims, those given tainted blood - still waiting for justice; the Hillsborough families - and so on. There are resonances with what is happening now - which I set out in my article - but which, almost inevitably, most have ignored because, hey, it's just NI and who cares.
Well, we ought to bloody care. One day we might be at the receiving end of similar behaviour.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also work wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
What else should be done if people have broken the law and come here illegally when its not permitted because there's a pandemic going on?
Its against the law to come here without an essential reason. "Exploring the job market" is not essential.
They could do that after the pandemic. No need to do it now while we're under lockdown and the border is closed. 🙄
"Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
[...] In other cases, visitors are clearly breaking rules, such as those now barring EU citizens from taking up unpaid internships."
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
But the article clearlty states r this is happeningn as does one person from a NGO quoted. I suspect the lack of quotes is cos the actual interviewees don't want comebacks.
Edit: It also makes clear some cases are not permitted anyway.
Irrespective of that, I'm still surprised at the HO advice permitting interviews, meetings, seminars. etc.
Work is permitted, travel for work is permitted as a result.
Travel to look for work, which is what all the quotes seem to be, is not. They've broken Covid rules, zero sympathy.
Zero Sympathy could probably have been quite a successful slogan for the whole Brexit movement, or the Leave.EU campaign.
Oh don't be a dickhead.
Should we remain under lockdown because hundreds of thousands of people are coming from Europe to "explore the job market" while they have surging case rates and we don't?
Coming here right now is against the law. Because of a pandemic, not Brexit.
Post-lockdown Europeans will be able to come here for a few months, explore the market to their content, fly home and apply for a visa. No issues. But not during a pandemic. 🙄
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also do wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
Makes one proud to be British.
People are denied entry to all countries all the time.
And what could be a better way for setting the tone for what will be decades of essential negotiations with your neighbours than imprisoning large numbers of them, too.
I had coffee last week with the CEO of one of the national care home chains. He doesn’t blame the government for the decision to move people from hospitals to care homes
Each case is a clinical decision between doctors, the care home and the family. If capacity in hospitals wasn't freed up by each transfer then what of the effects at the admission end?
But I do blame the government for in essence reacting to criticism, even where unfounded, in a kneejerk way with such awful consequences for the residents - whose only joy in life is visits from family and friends. Then they compound this over and over by issuing guidance couched in such language so as to kick the issue to individual care homes whose motivation is profit which involves prioritising quality of life over quality.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also work wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
What else should be done if people have broken the law and come here illegally when its not permitted because there's a pandemic going on?
Its against the law to come here without an essential reason. "Exploring the job market" is not essential.
They could do that after the pandemic. No need to do it now while we're under lockdown and the border is closed. 🙄
"Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
[...] In other cases, visitors are clearly breaking rules, such as those now barring EU citizens from taking up unpaid internships."
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
But the article clearlty states r this is happeningn as does one person from a NGO quoted. I suspect the lack of quotes is cos the actual interviewees don't want comebacks.
Edit: It also makes clear some cases are not permitted anyway.
Irrespective of that, I'm still surprised at the HO advice permitting interviews, meetings, seminars. etc.
Work is permitted, travel for work is permitted as a result.
Travel to look for work, which is what all the quotes seem to be, is not. They've broken Covid rules, zero sympathy.
Zero Sympathy could probably have been quite a successful slogan for the whole Brexit movement, or the Leave.EU campaign.
Oh don't be a dickhead.
Should we remain under lockdown because hundreds of thousands of people are coming from Europe to "explore the job market" while they have surging case rates and we don't?
Coming here right now is against the law. Because of a pandemic, not Brexit.
Post-lockdown Europeans will be able to come here for a few months, explore the market to their content, fly home and apply for a visa. No issues. But not during a pandemic. 🙄
Your periodic resorting to abuse achieves nothing, and these measures will continue long after Covid, as I'm sure you know.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also work wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
What else should be done if people have broken the law and come here illegally when its not permitted because there's a pandemic going on?
Its against the law to come here without an essential reason. "Exploring the job market" is not essential.
They could do that after the pandemic. No need to do it now while we're under lockdown and the border is closed. 🙄
"Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
[...] In other cases, visitors are clearly breaking rules, such as those now barring EU citizens from taking up unpaid internships."
Given that around 80-90m EU citizens will be vaccinated with AZ it seems unlikely in the extreme that it isn't also on the universally accepted list. It also has full authorisation from the EMA. I expect this is a journalist getting over excited about the brexit vaccine being excluded.
The article doesn't mention which vaccines are on which list. Is there another source @Chameleon ?
What you are scarred by, and what the government are scarred by, is SAGE and their modus operandi. Many, many people are scarred by it and will continue to be for many years.
Frederick Forsyth said he has seen few propaganda operations, even in old soviet states, as concentrated, agressive and frankly brutal as the governments covid campaign.
I think you've quoted the wrong person?
Just checked and Forsyth made the comments in a letter to the Telegraph this year and cited East Germany in the 1960s as the last time he has seen such indoctrination.
The government said it was going slowly because it wanted this to be the last lockdown.
Today has shown that to be what it is. A barefaced lie. They are ruling nothing out. If this was the last lockdown, they would be ruling out some things, including another lockdown.
The truth is they are terrified of SAGE.
Right now people who are unaccountable, unanswerable, whose science is disputed and whose predictions have been utterly junked on many occasions, are deciding our fate. People who who are in some cases not even experts in epidemiology, but communist psychologists with another agenda so obvious its untrue.
And you guys think this is OK. I don't know how dangerous covid is, but i do know how dangerous your attitudes are.
If you want something to be frightened of, look at the hospitals waiting lists. Trying seeing your GP.
If you want something else to be frightened of, look at the coming economic tsunami that is the result of these utterly devastating and ludicrous lockdowns.
That's the trouble with this country. It's absolutely awash with communist psychologists.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also do wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
Makes one proud to be British.
People are denied entry to all countries all the time.
As with the immigration debate in general, sometimes comments veer from 'It is wrong that X happened in this instance' to 'It is wrong that X happens' even when X is something pretty normal, such as the principle of whether a country can decide who it lets in to its country and on what basis. Of course we all debate and disagree around aspects of that, but it is not inherently wrong for countries to have restrictions, so unless people are genuinely arguing for a one world open borders free for all (which some are), they may need to be careful they are not implying a looser regime than they intended, or painting regular borders control as something sinister.
In this instance, my first thought would be to consider what are the arrangements in other European states, and whether ours are out of sync, before deciding whether they were unduly harsh. Though I was on the other side of the argument a similar point was made around ID cards, and if a terrible evil then why do they exist elsewhere in places not considered evil for doing so.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also work wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
What else should be done if people have broken the law and come here illegally when its not permitted because there's a pandemic going on?
Its against the law to come here without an essential reason. "Exploring the job market" is not essential.
They could do that after the pandemic. No need to do it now while we're under lockdown and the border is closed. 🙄
"Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
[...] In other cases, visitors are clearly breaking rules, such as those now barring EU citizens from taking up unpaid internships."
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also work wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
What else should be done if people have broken the law and come here illegally when its not permitted because there's a pandemic going on?
Its against the law to come here without an essential reason. "Exploring the job market" is not essential.
They could do that after the pandemic. No need to do it now while we're under lockdown and the border is closed. 🙄
"Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
[...] In other cases, visitors are clearly breaking rules, such as those now barring EU citizens from taking up unpaid internships."
I am resigned to restrictions for the foreseeable future = years. There will always be a ‘variant of concern’. True unlockdown will forever recede as we approach, much like the British summer
I am utterly sick of this. I can't deal with restrictions any more and this has already ruined my day. That being said, what Boris Johnson actually said (as reported in the Guardian live blog) was:
"f we have to do other things, then of course the public would want us to rule nothing out. We have always been clear we would be led by the data. At the moment, I can see nothing that dissuades me from thinking we will be able to go ahead on Monday and indeed on 21 June, everywhere, but there may be things we have to do locally and we will not hesitate to do them if that is the advice we get."
I honestly don't see any way he could have sanely been more bullish on unlocking in what he's said today, given where he's starting from. Of course, I'd have liked him to say "you know what, I'm sick of all this. No more rules. Do what you want." But based on the positions he's set out and the interests he's trying to balance, I can't object to what he's said. Bear in mind, he's always been keen to stress the 'at the earliest'; he's simply repeating what he's been saying since February.
I'm not concerned by rising positive tests. I am slightly concerned by decline in hospitalisations stopping, though too early to worry too much yet. And if hospitalisations stay at about 100 indefinitely, that is not a level which need concern us. I understand the worry that a pause in decline might be a precursor to a rise, but there is no reason to assume one will follow from the other, particularly given ongoing vaccination.
Anyway, to cheerier matters: architecture: it's always slightly jarring to visit Europe and see cities which were destroyed in the war which have been reconstructed. I'm not saying it shouldn't happen - of, course, it should happen - but it is so far outside of British architectural experience, which would be horrified by such an approach. It's slightly surprising even to realise it can be done. On a much smaller scale, a house near where I live - a pleasant but unremarkable late Victorian semi - unfortunately fell down after a clumsy builder failed to prop the walls up adequately when doing a knock through. It's been rebuilt, and extended, to exactly the same outward design - but of course using new bricks, fenestration, etc. It looks absolutely brilliant - presumably as good as it did when it was first built. Probably the most handsome house on the street: better than anything built in the last 120 years, but also fresher than anything built before that. It makes you wonder why we can't build all new houses like that. Again, you just get used to the assumption that it can't be done; but of course it can.
Further to the above, there was a story from the 80s about a delegation of German burghers visiting Derby. On touring the town with bigwigs from the council, they expressed horror and sadness: what a terrible thing the war was; there was much destruction in Germany too; we are so sorry that these terrible events ever happened. The Derby contingent cheerfully explained that actually Derby City Centre had got off pretty lightly in the war and had actually remained a pretty handsome town, and the mess of concrete they saw in front of them was the entirely self-inflicted result of 1960s planning and architecture.
Reminds me of when I took a visiting group from the German Post Office to lunch down Old Street in the 1990s, and they were puzzled about and asking what had happened to the then ruined church on the north side of the road (now brilliantly refurbished as an outpost for the LSO). When they understood, they were even more amazed that in relatively central London it had been left like that for more than fifty years.
The Bombed Out Church in Liverpool has been deliberately left as it was. It stands now as a memorial to what happened and the thousands that died in the war, rather than simply not bothering to repair it.
I hope the Church is never refurbished. I doubt it will be.
St. Lukes.
I used to bunk off school to go and sit there. I probably learned far more stuff of use to my life there than most of the lessons I missed.
The government said it was going slowly because it wanted this to be the last lockdown.
Today has shown that to be what it is. A barefaced lie. They are ruling nothing out. If this was the last lockdown, they would be ruling out some things, including another lockdown.
The truth is they are terrified of SAGE.
Right now people who are unaccountable, unanswerable, whose science is disputed and whose predictions have been utterly junked on many occasions, are deciding our fate. People who who are in some cases not even experts in epidemiology, but communist psychologists with another agenda so obvious its untrue.
And you guys think this is OK. I don't know how dangerous covid is, but i do know how dangerous your attitudes are.
If you want something to be frightened of, look at the hospitals waiting lists. Trying seeing your GP.
If you want something else to be frightened of, look at the coming economic tsunami that is the result of these utterly devastating and ludicrous lockdowns.
That's the trouble with this country. It's absolutely awash with communist psychologists.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also work wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
What else should be done if people have broken the law and come here illegally when its not permitted because there's a pandemic going on?
Its against the law to come here without an essential reason. "Exploring the job market" is not essential.
They could do that after the pandemic. No need to do it now while we're under lockdown and the border is closed. 🙄
"Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
[...] In other cases, visitors are clearly breaking rules, such as those now barring EU citizens from taking up unpaid internships."
The government said it was going slowly because it wanted this to be the last lockdown.
Today has shown that to be what it is. A barefaced lie. They are ruling nothing out. If this was the last lockdown, they would be ruling out some things, including another lockdown.
The truth is they are terrified of SAGE.
Right now people who are unaccountable, unanswerable, whose science is disputed and whose predictions have been utterly junked on many occasions, are deciding our fate. People who who are in some cases not even experts in epidemiology, but communist psychologists with another agenda so obvious its untrue.
And you guys think this is OK. I don't know how dangerous covid is, but i do know how dangerous your attitudes are.
If you want something to be frightened of, look at the hospitals waiting lists. Trying seeing your GP.
If you want something else to be frightened of, look at the coming economic tsunami that is the result of these utterly devastating effects ludicrous lockdowns.
I'm sorry, but what has shown this to be a barefaced lie? The statements all indicate that there is no change in the plan.
I'll be amazed if the government deviates from 21 June. There would be uproar on backbenches and with chunks of the public in a environment of tiny daily hospitalisation admissions/ with-covid deaths.
In my noble desire to expose myself to the *best* of Birmingham, I have just discovered their Symphony Hall
How? How could any city outside Saddam Hussein’s Iraq erect such a hideous wart, surrounded by similar warts? Why are British cities so bad at this? How did London, almost uniquely, escape?
Not great from the outside, but the acoustics are fantastic, and inside the hall itself looks pretty good.
To be fair the Brummies know it’s fugly, and they are ripping down the facade
How many times can a city tear down and rebuild its centre, until they realise the Germans are right? Just replace everything with an exact facsimile of the city centre in about 1890
So you expect London to tear down the Gherkin etc?
That 1890 cutoff would mean tearing down a lot of London's Imperial architecture, too. BBC, Adastral House, much of Whitehall, the Cenotaph, Waterloo (er, negotiable), etc. And much of the Underground, its Frank Pick logos, stations, etc.
In partial defence of modern architecture, my opinion is that since 2000, the vast majority of Manchester's architecture has been better than what it replaced. Quite a lot of it has even been better than what was there 130 years ago. It was the 1955-1979 period in which we really uglified our cities.
Uglified our cities? The English language too, apparently.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also work wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
What else should be done if people have broken the law and come here illegally when its not permitted because there's a pandemic going on?
Its against the law to come here without an essential reason. "Exploring the job market" is not essential.
They could do that after the pandemic. No need to do it now while we're under lockdown and the border is closed. 🙄
"Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
[...] In other cases, visitors are clearly breaking rules, such as those now barring EU citizens from taking up unpaid internships."
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also work wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
What else should be done if people have broken the law and come here illegally when its not permitted because there's a pandemic going on?
Its against the law to come here without an essential reason. "Exploring the job market" is not essential.
They could do that after the pandemic. No need to do it now while we're under lockdown and the border is closed. 🙄
"Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
[...] In other cases, visitors are clearly breaking rules, such as those now barring EU citizens from taking up unpaid internships."
Yet the only quotes are from people "exploring the job market".
Exploring the job market is not attending an interview. Its coming to go fishing for an interview and it is not permitted. So
Insdeed, because who wants to screw up a job by naming the company [edit] to the media? But the article should certainly have explained that lacuna.
Eugenia, a 24-year-old woman from the Basque region of northern Spain, reached Gatwick on Sunday 2 February on a flight from Bilbao. She planned to look for a job offer, go home to apply for a visa and then return to live with her Spanish boyfriend – an NHS worker who has been in the UK for four years. “I had a return ticket and had filled out an online travel form in which I explained all that,” she said.
She planned to look for a job offer. Not attend an interview.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also do wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
Makes one proud to be British.
People are denied entry to all countries all the time.
As with the immigration debate in general, sometimes comments veer from 'It is wrong that X happened in this instance' to 'It is wrong that X happens' even when X is something pretty normal, such as the principle of whether a country can decide who it lets in to its country and on what basis. Of course we all debate and disagree around aspects of that, but it is not inherently wrong for countries to have restrictions, so unless people are genuinely arguing for a one world open borders free for all (which some are), they may need to be careful they are not implying a looser regime than they intended, or painting regular borders control as something sinister.
In this instance, my first thought would be to consider what are the arrangements in other European states, and whether ours are out of sync, before deciding whether they were unduly harsh. Though I was on the other side of the argument a similar point was made around ID cards, and if a terrible evil then why do they exist elsewhere.
I'm not someone in favour of globally open borders ; I've simply been one of the people reminding that these kind of scenes would be the inevitable consequence of our closing of local european borders, many times and in many discussions since 2016, with negative implications for our future trading relationship. As far as I know no Britons have been placed in detention centres going the other way up to now.
They'll both happen on time. By the time we get to June 21st there will be just a handful of cases per day among the unvaccinated, there's no way we can delay unlockdown because of people who have refused the vaccine. The government target of one dose per person by July 31st is laughable, we have the supply to get every single person done once by the end of this month but it just leaves us at the mercy of supply chains for second doses. June 21st is a reasonably good target for 95% of 53m adults having had their first dose and end of July for 95% of 53m adults having had both doses.
If you take the few towns and cities were cases are still spreading in any meaningful numbers, then how much vaccine would it take to offer first doses to everyone remaining before the end of this month?
If cases are 20x more prevalent in Bolton than Bath it makes more sense to be vaccinating a 20 year old in Bolton than a 38 year old in Bath.
We're probably already at herd immunity levels nationwide, but crush the virus with surge vaccination past where its still circulating.
Yesterdays data -
Consistent with having hit herd immunity.
... at the current levels of restrictions.
Inconsistent with having hit herd immunity without restrictions, otherwise it would be dropping at over 50% per week.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also work wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
What else should be done if people have broken the law and come here illegally when its not permitted because there's a pandemic going on?
Its against the law to come here without an essential reason. "Exploring the job market" is not essential.
They could do that after the pandemic. No need to do it now while we're under lockdown and the border is closed. 🙄
"Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
[...] In other cases, visitors are clearly breaking rules, such as those now barring EU citizens from taking up unpaid internships."
Yet the only quotes are from people "exploring the job market".
Exploring the job market is not attending an interview. Its coming to go fishing for an interview and it is not permitted. So
Insdeed, because who wants to screw up a job by naming the company [edit] to the media? But the article should certainly have explained that lacuna.
Eugenia, a 24-year-old woman from the Basque region of northern Spain, reached Gatwick on Sunday 2 February on a flight from Bilbao. She planned to look for a job offer, go home to apply for a visa and then return to live with her Spanish boyfriend – an NHS worker who has been in the UK for four years. “I had a return ticket and had filled out an online travel form in which I explained all that,” she said.
She planned to look for a job offer. Not attend an interview.
Yes, wrong, as the article says.
But it's the interview holders (so to speak) which are at issue.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
But the article clearlty states r this is happeningn as does one person from a NGO quoted. I suspect the lack of quotes is cos the actual interviewees don't want comebacks.
Edit: It also makes clear some cases are not permitted anyway.
Irrespective of that, I'm still surprised at the HO advice permitting interviews, meetings, seminars. etc.
Work is permitted, travel for work is permitted as a result.
Travel to look for work, which is what all the quotes seem to be, is not. They've broken Covid rules, zero sympathy.
Zero Sympathy could probably have been quite a successful slogan for the whole Brexit movement, or the Leave.EU campaign.
Oh don't be a dickhead.
Should we remain under lockdown because hundreds of thousands of people are coming from Europe to "explore the job market" while they have surging case rates and we don't?
Coming here right now is against the law. Because of a pandemic, not Brexit.
Post-lockdown Europeans will be able to come here for a few months, explore the market to their content, fly home and apply for a visa. No issues. But not during a pandemic. 🙄
Your periodic resorting to abuse achieves nothing, and these measures will continue long after Covid, as I'm sure you know.
You're the one who chose to abuse the whole Brexit movement. I responded in kind.
Why would Covid measures continue after Covid? Currently coming as a tourist or to go looking for work etc is illegal - eventually it won't be.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also work wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
What else should be done if people have broken the law and come here illegally when its not permitted because there's a pandemic going on?
Its against the law to come here without an essential reason. "Exploring the job market" is not essential.
They could do that after the pandemic. No need to do it now while we're under lockdown and the border is closed. 🙄
"Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
[...] In other cases, visitors are clearly breaking rules, such as those now barring EU citizens from taking up unpaid internships."
Yet the only quotes are from people "exploring the job market".
Exploring the job market is not attending an interview. Its coming to go fishing for an interview and it is not permitted. So
Insdeed, because who wants to screw up a job by naming the company [edit] to the media? But the article should certainly have explained that lacuna.
Eugenia, a 24-year-old woman from the Basque region of northern Spain, reached Gatwick on Sunday 2 February on a flight from Bilbao. She planned to look for a job offer, go home to apply for a visa and then return to live with her Spanish boyfriend – an NHS worker who has been in the UK for four years. “I had a return ticket and had filled out an online travel form in which I explained all that,” she said.
She planned to look for a job offer. Not attend an interview.
Yes, wrong, as the article says.
But it's the interview holders (so to speak) which are at issue.
Who appear to have been lacking the evidence of said interviews. Otherwise why would they have been rejected? Unless you are arguing that these dozen or so people are the only people to have come in for one.
They'll both happen on time. By the time we get to June 21st there will be just a handful of cases per day among the unvaccinated, there's no way we can delay unlockdown because of people who have refused the vaccine. The government target of one dose per person by July 31st is laughable, we have the supply to get every single person done once by the end of this month but it just leaves us at the mercy of supply chains for second doses. June 21st is a reasonably good target for 95% of 53m adults having had their first dose and end of July for 95% of 53m adults having had both doses.
If you take the few towns and cities were cases are still spreading in any meaningful numbers, then how much vaccine would it take to offer first doses to everyone remaining before the end of this month?
If cases are 20x more prevalent in Bolton than Bath it makes more sense to be vaccinating a 20 year old in Bolton than a 38 year old in Bath.
We're probably already at herd immunity levels nationwide, but crush the virus with surge vaccination past where its still circulating.
Yesterdays data -
Consistent with having hit herd immunity.
... at the current levels of restrictions.
Inconsistent with having hit herd immunity without restrictions, otherwise it would be dropping at over 50% per week.
Well it is dropping week on week, and herd immunity doesn't mean that a virus will be eliminated - it means that a new surge won't happen.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also work wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
What else should be done if people have broken the law and come here illegally when its not permitted because there's a pandemic going on?
Its against the law to come here without an essential reason. "Exploring the job market" is not essential.
They could do that after the pandemic. No need to do it now while we're under lockdown and the border is closed. 🙄
"Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
[...] In other cases, visitors are clearly breaking rules, such as those now barring EU citizens from taking up unpaid internships."
Yet the only quotes are from people "exploring the job market".
Exploring the job market is not attending an interview. Its coming to go fishing for an interview and it is not permitted. So
Insdeed, because who wants to screw up a job by naming the company [edit] to the media? But the article should certainly have explained that lacuna.
Eugenia, a 24-year-old woman from the Basque region of northern Spain, reached Gatwick on Sunday 2 February on a flight from Bilbao. She planned to look for a job offer, go home to apply for a visa and then return to live with her Spanish boyfriend – an NHS worker who has been in the UK for four years. “I had a return ticket and had filled out an online travel form in which I explained all that,” she said.
She planned to look for a job offer. Not attend an interview.
Yes, wrong, as the article says.
But it's the interview holders (so to speak) which are at issue.
What interview holders? Not one interview holder is quoted.
Instead those with an agenda people coming to look for an interview are being phrased as those coming for an interview, which is not the same thing.
The government said it was going slowly because it wanted this to be the last lockdown.
Today has shown that to be what it is. A barefaced lie. They are ruling nothing out. If this was the last lockdown, they would be ruling out some things, including another lockdown.
The truth is they are terrified of SAGE.
Right now people who are unaccountable, unanswerable, whose science is disputed and whose predictions have been utterly junked on many occasions, are deciding our fate. People who who are in some cases not even experts in epidemiology, but communist psychologists with another agenda so obvious its untrue.
And you guys think this is OK. I don't know how dangerous covid is, but i do know how dangerous your attitudes are.
If you want something to be frightened of, look at the hospitals waiting lists. Trying seeing your GP.
If you want something else to be frightened of, look at the coming economic tsunami that is the result of these utterly devastating and ludicrous lockdowns.
Are you sure it's the government who are terrified of SAGE? They seem quite high up in your personal list of bogeymen.
EU citizens are being sent to immigration removal centres and held in airport detention rooms as the UK government’s “hostile environment” policy falls on them after Brexit, according to campaigners and travellers interviewed by the Guardian.
Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
Denied entry?
Aren't we still under lockdown?
Yeah, it's illegal to travel internationally from England for a job interview. Hard to have much sympathy.
Either they are allowed to come here for their interviews or they aren’t.
If they are allowed, the fault is with the government, and if we are locking them up they deserve every sympathy, whether or not we are allowed to travel elsewhere for the same reason.
Not at all possible that it was those traveling that were at fault, is it?
Some of them clearly were - as the full article clearly states. But it would appear that most of them weren’t.
According to who? You've not provided a link to the article just a snippet.
Most of the article seems to be people who thought they could turn up “explore the job market” to get an offer. So not an interview.
What a wonderful image of the new model Britain. Italians, French, Bulgarians, Spaniards, Portugese and Greeks sitting in prisons and detention centres. It will also work wonders for the necessities of the working relationship going forwards, I expect.
What else should be done if people have broken the law and come here illegally when its not permitted because there's a pandemic going on?
Its against the law to come here without an essential reason. "Exploring the job market" is not essential.
They could do that after the pandemic. No need to do it now while we're under lockdown and the border is closed. 🙄
"Europeans with job interviews are among those being denied entry and locked up. They have spoken of being subjected to the traumatic and humiliating experience of expulsion, despite Home Office rules that explicitly allow non-visa holders to attend interviews.
[...] In other cases, visitors are clearly breaking rules, such as those now barring EU citizens from taking up unpaid internships."
Yet the only quotes are from people "exploring the job market".
Exploring the job market is not attending an interview. Its coming to go fishing for an interview and it is not permitted. So
Insdeed, because who wants to screw up a job by naming the company [edit] to the media? But the article should certainly have explained that lacuna.
Eugenia, a 24-year-old woman from the Basque region of northern Spain, reached Gatwick on Sunday 2 February on a flight from Bilbao. She planned to look for a job offer, go home to apply for a visa and then return to live with her Spanish boyfriend – an NHS worker who has been in the UK for four years. “I had a return ticket and had filled out an online travel form in which I explained all that,” she said.
She planned to look for a job offer. Not attend an interview.
Yes, wrong, as the article says.
But it's the interview holders (so to speak) which are at issue.
What interview holders? Not one interview holder is quoted.
Instead those with an agenda people coming to look for an interview are being phrased as those coming for an interview, which is not the same thing.
The article is actually not doing quite that - but it is not presenting enough evidence, agreed. We will khave to see what comes out.
Comments
If there was any serious evidence for vaccine escape by this variant we'd already know as hordes of old people in care homes in Harrow, Leicester, Ealing and Wembley would have started dying.
It was the 1955-1979 period in which we really uglified our cities.
Or it could be this is the latest scam by Romanians or Bulgarians to enter illegally
And honestly, travelling for a job interview? Haven't they heard of zoom.
I hope the Church is never refurbished. I doubt it will be.
Universally accepted: Pfizer, Moderna, J&J
Country by country: Sinopharm, Sputnik V.
I'm hoping that this is slopping reporting from journalists, if not then wow. what a pack of petty c**ts.
https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/european-union-seeks-reopen-travel-vaccination-pass
The Guardian is not neutral on these issues.
But it also makes the point there was a big backlog of general old age, decay and damage after the war, a century's worth of soot hiding the beauties of architecture, etc. Not to mention Beeching and the cuts before his Plan.
Even sprucing existing buildings up in the 1980s helped enormously.
At the age of 12 I just knew this was wrong
A lot of it was petty provincial corruption, backhanders between developers and councilors. Tragic
#
Edit: Interviews etc. does surprise me, too, and I don't like it either, but if the HO says it is copacetic, what's not to believe?
Today has shown that to be what it is. A barefaced lie. They are ruling nothing out. If this was the last lockdown, they would be ruling out some things, including another lockdown.
The truth is they are terrified of SAGE.
Right now people who are unaccountable, unanswerable, whose science is disputed and whose predictions have been utterly junked on many occasions, are deciding our fate. People who who are in some cases not even experts in epidemiology, but communist psychologists with another agenda so obvious its untrue.
And you guys think this is OK. I don't know how dangerous covid is, but i do know how dangerous your attitudes are.
If you want something to be frightened of, look at the hospitals waiting lists. Trying seeing your GP.
If you want something else to be frightened of, look at the coming economic tsunami that is the result of these utterly devastating and ludicrous lockdowns.
A slight tweak to what MaxPB says above - is there an intention to get all adults offered a first jab by three weeks before June 21st (to allow for the immunity to build)? It would be a bit inconsistent having banged on so far through that you don't get your immunity as soon as you had your jab to have release day as the day the last adult is offered his jab.
A majority of unionists voted to Leave. A majority of nationalist voted to Remain. So the province split along secretarian lines and any Brexit solution needs to address the concerns of both.
So how can this be the last lockdown?
Yes, zero as in very small chance of roadmap delay. Don't blame people getting twitchy though. Case of "believe it when I see it" with them and I can understand why. It's been a trial and a tribulation.
So I know it's wrong to not care, and that cyclefree is right there is plenty to be said and learnt. But she is right that it won't
https://www.devonguide.com/photos/charles-church-ruins-plymouth.htm
Sometime this week, we will have domestically produced more COVID vaccine doses than we have imported.
This from pretty much a standing start in terms of vaccine capacity.
https://twitter.com/PaulMainwood/status/1392817868677451776?s=20
According to that link coming for a meeting etc is permitted, but coming to browse and find work is not.
Nobody has talked about a further national lockdown.
Nobody apart from you.
But I don't understand what people in the 50s and 60s loved about concrete. Aesthetically at least.
‘Speaking on Wednesday at the launch of an €8m campaign to lure back visitors, María Reyes Maroto said Spain was opening up again and was particularly keen for the return of UK holidaymakers.’
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/12/spain-aims-to-receive-british-tourists-without-covid-tests-from-20-may?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I am calling out this story as cobblers
Edit: It also makes clear some cases are not permitted anyway.
Irrespective of that, I'm still surprised at the HO advice permitting interviews, meetings, seminars. etc.
Frederick Forsyth said he has seen few propaganda operations, even in old soviet states, as concentrated, agressive and frankly brutal as the governments covid campaign.
Makes one proud to be British.
Travel to look for work, which is what all the quotes seem to be, is not. They've broken Covid rules, zero sympathy.
“The Home Office need to explain why exploring the job market or attending an interview justifies refusing EEA nationals entry at the border when immigration rules specifically allow visitors to – among other things – attend meetings, conferences and interviews,
Exploring the job market is not permitted. They should know that.
Its against the law to come here without an essential reason. "Exploring the job market" is not essential.
They could do that after the pandemic. No need to do it now while we're under lockdown and the border is closed. 🙄
Professor James Naismith all over the media this very morning saying local lockdowns won't beat the Indian variant. Its a national problem, according to him
[...] In other cases, visitors are clearly breaking rules, such as those now barring EU citizens from taking up unpaid internships."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/13/eu-citizens-arriving-in-uk-being-locked-up-and-expelled
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Béton_brut
Some of his concrete ‘masterpieces’ have aged reasonably well. His priory near Lyon, the Unite in Marseille (I’ve slept in both)
But of course what kind-of-works in the sunny south of France doesn’t work in rainy Britain, where concrete stains and ages, horribly. That’s just one problem
The attitudes and approaches which allow this to happen also allow the indifference and years of denial to other victims of injustice by the state or other official authorities. Let me think of some examples: ah yes - the Windrush victims, those given tainted blood - still waiting for justice; the Hillsborough families - and so on. There are resonances with what is happening now - which I set out in my article - but which, almost inevitably, most have ignored because, hey, it's just NI and who cares.
Well, we ought to bloody care. One day we might be at the receiving end of similar behaviour.
Should we remain under lockdown because hundreds of thousands of people are coming from Europe to "explore the job market" while they have surging case rates and we don't?
Coming here right now is against the law. Because of a pandemic, not Brexit.
Post-lockdown Europeans will be able to come here for a few months, explore the market to their content, fly home and apply for a visa. No issues. But not during a pandemic. 🙄
But I do blame the government for in essence reacting to criticism, even where unfounded, in a kneejerk way with such awful consequences for the residents - whose only joy in life is visits from family and friends. Then they compound this over and over by issuing guidance couched in such language so as to kick the issue to individual care homes whose motivation is profit which involves prioritising quality of life over quality.
Exploring the job market is not attending an interview. Its coming to go fishing for an interview and it is not permitted. So
In this instance, my first thought would be to consider what are the arrangements in other European states, and whether ours are out of sync, before deciding whether they were unduly harsh. Though I was on the other side of the argument a similar point was made around ID cards, and if a terrible evil then why do they exist elsewhere in places not considered evil for doing so.
I used to bunk off school to go and sit there. I probably learned far more stuff of use to my life there than most of the lessons I missed.
Coming to "explore the job market" means trying to come here and find an interview, not come and attend a pre-booked, pre-arranged interview.
She planned to look for a job offer. Not attend an interview.
Inconsistent with having hit herd immunity without restrictions, otherwise it would be dropping at over 50% per week.
But it's the interview holders (so to speak) which are at issue.
Why would Covid measures continue after Covid? Currently coming as a tourist or to go looking for work etc is illegal - eventually it won't be.
https://twitter.com/PaulMainwood/status/1392817868677451776
Instead those with an agenda people coming to look for an interview are being phrased as those coming for an interview, which is not the same thing.
Given the track record, you should be hoping for SAGE to urge further lockdown, best way of ensuring the goverment opens up
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54528983
Keep Jabbing and Carry On.
I find myself unconcerned over the Indian variant, but I suppose the media need some form of outrage. And contrarian needs some straw to cling to.