If Rachel Reeves is the answer, you're asking the wrong question.
Performance on current brief makes pretty clear she's a cypher able to fake the mannerisms of intelligence without actually possessing it.
The genius behind the PPE dossier of companies labour said the government should be talking to, who were even more unsuitable than Matt Hancock's pub landlord.
This desire to repeat 97...It reminds me of teams hiring Jose Morinho, because he had success, but the game has evolved and his tactics are transparent these days and don't work any more even against middle tier opposition.
This, however, does not necessarily mean that, as the first minister claims, holding another referendum is now clearly the "will of the people" in Scotland.
Rather, the outcome of the election confirms that Scotland is evenly divided on the constitutional question.
The three main pro-union parties won 50.4 per cent of the constituency vote, but the three main list parties secured 50.1 per cent of the list vote. The pro-independence majority is a consequence of the limitations of Holyrood’s supposedly proportional electoral system (devised over twenty years ago by Labour and the Liberal Democrats) rather than evidence of a clear majority in favour of another referendum.
It's not the Will of the People, but there's a clear democratic mandate for it. Both these things are true at the same time.
The number of MSPs is irrelevant - you don’t elect a representative to represent you in something that is outwith their powers
But they just did
No, they didn’t. The SNP candidates promised* to hold a referendum on independence. But it is not in their power to grant a legal referendum. They can only try to put pressure on the Westminster parliament to grant one.** It would like a Mayor of London promising to declare war on France - it might win votes but doesn’t change the scope of their power
* I haven’t read their manifesto so don’t know precisely what they promised
** the share of the vote is a better argument - although only for putting pressure on Westminster - but I understand (saw some debate between @DavidL & @RochdalePioneers this afternoon) that was pretty close up 50/50 so not an overwhelming demand
DAvidL and RP were both in agreement that it was over the 50% mark. It's HYUFD who was using the psephological equivalent of creative bistromathics.
Yes - I don’t recall the details but think it was around 50.1/50.4? Hence my comment that it wasn’t “overwhelming demand”.
Highest ever turnout Highest ever SNP vote Highest ever number of MSPs elected on a Yes platform who now have a clear majority Yes took more votes than No
So obviously it is still up in the air...
Turnout - relevant but not decisive SNP vote - not a majority MSPs - not relevant as it’s not in their remit majority of votes cast - only marginally so not a decisive argument
Read the spectator article @CarlottaVance linked to. It puts the argument on mandates better than I can
Charles. You are (I assume) a Unionist. Is your plan to maintain the union to tell Scotland that despite them electing a clear majority of MSPs pledged to a referendum that (a) they didn't and (b) that they can't have it anyway?
Do you think this goes away if you sit in England if you tell Scotland they have no way to leave however they vote? If you want to preserve the union then you need to face into the problem not waft it away. It won't waft away. It needs to be defeated head on.
A 2nd referndum - as polls suggest - could be a comfortable win for No. At which point the clause barring a repeat for x period which I assume would have been inserted into the agreement comes into effect.
I’m a federalist.
But there was a vote in 2014. Independence was rejected. You don’t get a do over - the winners of that vote have the right to a period of stability
You do get a do over. It's called democracy. If the Scottish people wanted "a period of stability" they wouldn't keep voting for the SNP, would they?
I think two things can be true at the same time here, though.
You're right but at the same time every time there's a referendum on the horizon it depressed sterling and dips investment a bit as it throws the whole future of the UK into doubt - that affects all of us.
That's why it's in our interest to sort this out one way or the other. By denying the SNP you're just delaying the issue and keeps their voting coalition together.
You call Nicola's bluff - you have IndyRef2, the Scots will in all likelihood vote to stay in the UK, and then realistically that's it for the foreseeable future. There's no huge political or societal change like Brexit on the horizon, the SNP cannot get any stronger, the only way is down.
It's Quebec v2.
And if, by some miracle, they vote to leave, well then rUK's stability is confirmed longterm anyway.
Quebec's indyref2 was held in 1995, 15 years after the first in 1980 ie a genuine generation, not just 7 years after
Who gives a monkey's aboiut generations? You show us all where the word is in the legislation.
Salmond and Sturgeon, last time around.
I mean, that's completely meaningless, considering a "generation" is not defined anywhere other than what is convenient in @HYUFD 's head. I'm sure even if it was 15 years on "generation" would be redefined to mean 40 years.
I think we can all agree seven years is not a generation.
You've missed the point. The point is that a "generation" is meaningless because it has no agreed definition. It's just a tool to justify ignoring the Scottish people's vote for a referendum.
I don't think so. If it was said at the time it was a once-in-a-generation or once-in-a-lifetime vote, that really doesn't imply the next one will be seven years later, does it?
Nick Brown sacked as chief whip Rachel Reeves replaces Anneliese Dodds as shadow chancellor Lisa Nandy and Jon Ashworth stay in post Suggestions that Wes Streeting line for promotion to a new brief
This system where some metro mayors are PCCs and some are not is ridiculous. What a mess.
It all depends on whether the mayoral boundaries match the police force area. West Yorkshire yes, Teesside no.
We need fewer police forces in my opinion.
We need more effective police forces, where "effective" is a nuanced term, but I fear proposals to merge forces or combine different emergency services are at best displacement activities. I suppose Police Scotland might provide some evidence one way or the other.
Police Scotland is an argument against fewer police forces.
Aaron Bastani waxing lyrical about China - the most negative thing he could bring himself to say
"They aren't perfect - they don't have the NHS"
Lisa Nandy now being crapped all over by them - apparently she is a neocon.......
He isn't worried about the low pay and terrible working conditions ? And by low, I mean in some cases no pay, as it is slave labour.
You've got to understand that his concern about injustice is utterly narcisstic - it's so he can feel good about himself and raise his virtuous status in the eyes of others.
It's not, you know, actually about fighting injustice because that would involve a lot of hard work and contesting its most serious forms would require him to do some hard thinking about his warped ideology.
Well a lot of these hard lefties also happy to explain away the millions of dead under their favourite mad leaders as simply necessary step to get the country into the right shape.
Starmer needs to find a northern, leave-voting candidate, from a working class background to stand in Batley. Ideally one who does a proper job in the private sector. But before he asks for my number, soz, I don't fancy it.
Failing that, as I suggested earlier, Caroline Flint.
When I think of Sir Keir, almost instantly the words to Beat Surrender by The Jam come to mind
"All the things that I shout about (but never act upon) All the courage and the dreams that I have (but seem to wait so long) My doubt is cast aside, watch phonies run to hide The dignified don't even enter in the game And if you feel there's no passion No quality sensation Seize the young determination Show the fakers you ain't foolin You'll see me come runnin To the sound of your strummin Fill my heart with joy and gladness I've lived too long in shadows of sadness"
All the things he is not.
Labour should be a revolutionary party campaigning for the rights of the workers and those left behind by capitalism. Corbyn may have been a nutter, but he had passion, and conviction. Labour voters should be young, enthusiastic and full of passion, not middle of the road and middle aged. I actually think Labour can be successful without being in government as relentless insurgents keeping the Tories on their toes. Sir Keir's corporate middle management style is the worst of all worlds - he isn't going to win, and he doesn't have any gusto. Labour should get rid and go left field
At least one of
Female Not white Not straight
Should be essentials for their next leader. Walk the walk if you're going to talk the talk
I had been away for a while and just realised posts like this are why I have been returning (under various noms de guerre) for many years. Thanks isam
Not sure if you're taking the mickey or not, but I'll assume the latter and say thanks!
This, however, does not necessarily mean that, as the first minister claims, holding another referendum is now clearly the "will of the people" in Scotland.
Rather, the outcome of the election confirms that Scotland is evenly divided on the constitutional question.
The three main pro-union parties won 50.4 per cent of the constituency vote, but the three main list parties secured 50.1 per cent of the list vote. The pro-independence majority is a consequence of the limitations of Holyrood’s supposedly proportional electoral system (devised over twenty years ago by Labour and the Liberal Democrats) rather than evidence of a clear majority in favour of another referendum.
It's not the Will of the People, but there's a clear democratic mandate for it. Both these things are true at the same time.
The number of MSPs is irrelevant - you don’t elect a representative to represent you in something that is outwith their powers
But they just did
No, they didn’t. The SNP candidates promised* to hold a referendum on independence. But it is not in their power to grant a legal referendum. They can only try to put pressure on the Westminster parliament to grant one.** It would like a Mayor of London promising to declare war on France - it might win votes but doesn’t change the scope of their power
* I haven’t read their manifesto so don’t know precisely what they promised
** the share of the vote is a better argument - although only for putting pressure on Westminster - but I understand (saw some debate between @DavidL & @RochdalePioneers this afternoon) that was pretty close up 50/50 so not an overwhelming demand
DAvidL and RP were both in agreement that it was over the 50% mark. It's HYUFD who was using the psephological equivalent of creative bistromathics.
Yes - I don’t recall the details but think it was around 50.1/50.4? Hence my comment that it wasn’t “overwhelming demand”.
Highest ever turnout Highest ever SNP vote Highest ever number of MSPs elected on a Yes platform who now have a clear majority Yes took more votes than No
So obviously it is still up in the air...
Turnout - relevant but not decisive SNP vote - not a majority MSPs - not relevant as it’s not in their remit majority of votes cast - only marginally so not a decisive argument
Read the spectator article @CarlottaVance linked to. It puts the argument on mandates better than I can
Charles. You are (I assume) a Unionist. Is your plan to maintain the union to tell Scotland that despite them electing a clear majority of MSPs pledged to a referendum that (a) they didn't and (b) that they can't have it anyway?
Do you think this goes away if you sit in England if you tell Scotland they have no way to leave however they vote? If you want to preserve the union then you need to face into the problem not waft it away. It won't waft away. It needs to be defeated head on.
A 2nd referndum - as polls suggest - could be a comfortable win for No. At which point the clause barring a repeat for x period which I assume would have been inserted into the agreement comes into effect.
I’m a federalist.
But there was a vote in 2014. Independence was rejected. You don’t get a do over - the winners of that vote have the right to a period of stability
You do get a do over. It's called democracy. If the Scottish people wanted "a period of stability" they wouldn't keep voting for the SNP, would they?
I think two things can be true at the same time here, though.
You're right but at the same time every time there's a referendum on the horizon it depressed sterling and dips investment a bit as it throws the whole future of the UK into doubt - that affects all of us.
That's why it's in our interest to sort this out one way or the other. By denying the SNP you're just delaying the issue and keeps their voting coalition together.
You call Nicola's bluff - you have IndyRef2, the Scots will in all likelihood vote to stay in the UK, and then realistically that's it for the foreseeable future. There's no huge political or societal change like Brexit on the horizon, the SNP cannot get any stronger, the only way is down.
It's Quebec v2.
And if, by some miracle, they vote to leave, well then rUK's stability is confirmed longterm anyway.
Quebec's indyref2 was held in 1995, 15 years after the first in 1980 ie a genuine generation, not just 7 years after
Who gives a monkey's aboiut generations? You show us all where the word is in the legislation.
Salmond and Sturgeon, last time around.
I mean, that's completely meaningless, considering a "generation" is not defined anywhere other than what is convenient in @HYUFD 's head. I'm sure even if it was 15 years on "generation" would be redefined to mean 40 years.
Well, if (or most likely when) the second vote comes around, and if it also produces a vote to stay put, then it might be considered a good idea to bar another one in law for a long time.
The average age of a first-time mother in the UK is now about thirty years, according to a quick Google (slightly lower in England, slightly higher in Scotland.) So, it would probably be reasonable to define a Scottish generation as thirty years (rather than thirty seconds, as seems presently to be the case,) and to ignore demands from Edinburgh for yet another plebiscite for three decades.
Not that the SNP wouldn't keep on running, and winning, on the grievance regardless.
#BothVotesSNP allowed 23 additional Unionists to gain seats on the list (14 CONs & 9 LAB).
If @theSNP support backed ALBA & #BothVotesYES this would have made @AlbaParty the second largest party on 31 seats in total & a pro-Indy majority of 31 as opposed to 8.
Aaron Bastani waxing lyrical about China - the most negative thing he could bring himself to say
"They aren't perfect - they don't have the NHS"
Lisa Nandy now being crapped all over by them - apparently she is a neocon.......
One thing that the hard left fellow travellers seem not to have noticed is that Putin is a Russian Nationalist, and the CCP is less Communist than SKS! It's like they are nostalgic for the good old days of the Cold War.
Two wards round here were electing two councillors.
Bingley Rural: Three parties fielded a Muslim and a non-Muslim candidate. In all three cases the non-Muslim outpolled their colleague.
Keighley Central: The reverse - Labour and Conservative each had their Muslim candidate elected, with the non-Muslim trailing. Indeed, third place went to an Independent who was also a Muslim.
So it cuts both ways, but in both cases I find it depressing.
The entire point of modern sectional politics is that we carefully define the population in terms of a matrix of identities.
It then comes as a surprise to people who have PhDs in sociology that people then see themselves in terms of a series of identities which results in social separatism.
To which political systems that recognize social, geographic and ethnic difference can act as a means of political (and perhaps eventually social) intergration,
For example, the mixed tickets common in Mayor Daley's Chicago and Tammany Hall's (also Fiorello La Guardia's) New York City.
In both metropolises (or metropoli for the purists & latinists?) common practice was (and to some degree still is) to make sure that major voting blocs had someone running for something.
Say an Irishman (like Daley) for Mayor of Chicago, a Pole for Cook County Attorney, Italian & Jewish & Black for various congressional seats, a rich WASP for Parks Commissioner, etc, etc, etc.
Politicos would of course fight it out as to who got what, but serious effort was put into creating a balanced ticket that would attract support from across the civic mosaic.
Hallmark of big city political machines. But also strategy of savvy reformers & progressives.
Aaron Bastani waxing lyrical about China - the most negative thing he could bring himself to say
"They aren't perfect - they don't have the NHS"
Lisa Nandy now being crapped all over by them - apparently she is a neocon.......
One thing that the hard left fellow travellers seem not to have noticed is that Putin is a Russian Nationalist, and the CCP is less Communist than SKS! It's like they are nostalgic for the good old days of the Cold War.
That has been surprisingly constant, since 1989. Hence the support for the Serbians during the Yugoslav wars - The Serbs were the traditional allies of the Russians. So never mind the ethnic cleansing or the fascism - they must be Good Komrades!
Yvette Cooper and Hilary Benn would be good cabinet picks but both chair important select committees and apparently they’re happy to remain in those roles.
I wonder if Nick Brown might be tempted to step down. Newcastle upon Tyne East would be a tasty "safe seat"...
I world guess so in 2024 (or whenever it is). As there will be boundary changes, I am not sure if the seat would be needed to fit the other 2 city MPs if Newcastle is reduced to 2 and half seats. Unless they pair Newcastle with North Tyneside where Mary Glindon may consider retirement too.
Otherwise let's get Dr Paul in from a shortlist of 1.
I wonder if Nick Brown might be tempted to step down. Newcastle upon Tyne East would be a tasty "safe seat"...
The question is whether Ed Balls could be persuaded back to save Labour from itself.
As I've said on a few previous occasions, I'd vote for Labour led by Ed Balls. I'd trust him in brexit and cultural values issues in a way I don't trust any of the current lot. He would do right by people with traditional values and I think he understands that reversing brexit would be the end of the Labour party which Starmer doesn't.
I don’t want to intrude overly on Shadow Cabinet Reshuffle Twitter, but are they going to have to have another one on Friday if they don’t win the Airdrie and Shotts by-election?
Used to be the Minister for the Today programme basically iirc.
Either that or super organizer, constantly working the rubber chicken network of local party meetings, union awards, regional dinners and so on.
Does either of those sound like Dodds the don from Oxford?
Though in practice, it's a placeholder title. If the plan is to keep Dodds in the Shadow Cabinet to do thinking, but not doing hand-to-hand combat, that might make sense.
The super organiser bit, especially, probably shouldn't be done by an MP. Ask that nice man Mr Cummings.
#BothVotesSNP allowed 23 additional Unionists to gain seats on the list (14 CONs & 9 LAB).
If @theSNP support backed ALBA & #BothVotesYES this would have made @AlbaParty the second largest party on 31 seats in total & a pro-Indy majority of 31 as opposed to 8.
Anything now with Salmond at the helm would have done more harm than good for the Yes cause . The SNP would have been better off asking their supporters to vote Green on the list vote .
Batley & Spen has a solid history of the 4 main enduring parties contesting all wards fully in local elections, so a good electoral history to go off. So, we have as follows (the mostly non-contested by-election after Jo Cox's murder is not shown). Others are almost exclusively Eurosceptics in various guises.
I think the take home is that it will be tight, how those local Cleckheaton LDs break this time and whether an other party candidate can take many votes (my guess, not this time) will be key.
When I think of Sir Keir, almost instantly the words to Beat Surrender by The Jam come to mind
"All the things that I shout about (but never act upon) All the courage and the dreams that I have (but seem to wait so long) My doubt is cast aside, watch phonies run to hide The dignified don't even enter in the game And if you feel there's no passion No quality sensation Seize the young determination Show the fakers you ain't foolin You'll see me come runnin To the sound of your strummin Fill my heart with joy and gladness I've lived too long in shadows of sadness"
All the things he is not.
Labour should be a revolutionary party campaigning for the rights of the workers and those left behind by capitalism. Corbyn may have been a nutter, but he had passion, and conviction. Labour voters should be young, enthusiastic and full of passion, not middle of the road and middle aged. I actually think Labour can be successful without being in government as relentless insurgents keeping the Tories on their toes. Sir Keir's corporate middle management style is the worst of all worlds - he isn't going to win, and he doesn't have any gusto. Labour should get rid and go left field
At least one of
Female Not white Not straight
Should be essentials for their next leader. Walk the walk if you're going to talk the talk
I had been away for a while and just realised posts like this are why I have been returning (under various noms de guerre) for many years. Thanks isam
Not sure if you're taking the mickey or not, but I'll assume the latter and say thanks!
Nope. Genuine. It was thoughtful, somewhat left field and it quoted the former best band in the world. What’s not to like?
Aaron Bastani waxing lyrical about China - the most negative thing he could bring himself to say
"They aren't perfect - they don't have the NHS"
Lisa Nandy now being crapped all over by them - apparently she is a neocon.......
One thing that the hard left fellow travellers seem not to have noticed is that Putin is a Russian Nationalist, and the CCP is less Communist than SKS! It's like they are nostalgic for the good old days of the Cold War.
Putin is a neo-Commie and Russian Nationalist in mode of Stalin, albeit with a (slightly) softer touch.
Similar to how Xi is a neo-Maoist and Chinese Nationalist sans funny suit.
This system where some metro mayors are PCCs and some are not is ridiculous. What a mess.
It all depends on whether the mayoral boundaries match the police force area. West Yorkshire yes, Teesside no.
We need fewer police forces in my opinion.
We need more effective police forces, where "effective" is a nuanced term, but I fear proposals to merge forces or combine different emergency services are at best displacement activities. I suppose Police Scotland might provide some evidence one way or the other.
Police Scotland is an argument against fewer police forces.
Police Scotland is an oddity, because it encompasses an enormous geographical range and it places the force under central rather than local control. Of course, the Scottish Government is very centralising. You can't imagine the SNP creating elected mayoralties or combined authorities and giving them powers like Andy Burnham enjoys, even though they would almost certainly win all of them.
There is an argument for some consolidation though. Many smaller forces in England already pool resources. Would it necessarily do too much harm if they merged?
This, however, does not necessarily mean that, as the first minister claims, holding another referendum is now clearly the "will of the people" in Scotland.
Rather, the outcome of the election confirms that Scotland is evenly divided on the constitutional question.
The three main pro-union parties won 50.4 per cent of the constituency vote, but the three main list parties secured 50.1 per cent of the list vote. The pro-independence majority is a consequence of the limitations of Holyrood’s supposedly proportional electoral system (devised over twenty years ago by Labour and the Liberal Democrats) rather than evidence of a clear majority in favour of another referendum.
It's not the Will of the People, but there's a clear democratic mandate for it. Both these things are true at the same time.
The number of MSPs is irrelevant - you don’t elect a representative to represent you in something that is outwith their powers
The number of MSPs is relevant to the mandate. Whether the mandate should be denied by Westminster on arcane legal grounds is a separate question. My opinion is it could be but shouldn't be. For 2 reasons, one of principle, one pragmatic. The principle is the right of the Scottish people to decide whether they wish to stay a part of the union. The pragmatism is that to deny and delay would make an acrimonious split more likely. Remain would be favourite if the vote were held soon. Respect democracy, win the vote, secure the union. That's the right way, the honest way, the best way. So I suppose Johnson won't do it. Or might he? In truth I'm not so sure.
And that’s exactly the point:
The MSP mandate explicitly doesn’t include a referendum under the terms of the law that established the Scottish Parliament
The right of the Scottish people to determine their future is more strongly demonstrated by the share of the vote which was about 50/50. If it had been 60/40 then I would have happily argued that Westminster should listen to that demand. But 50/50 doesn’t demonstrate a desire to go through the trauma of a further referendum
But the mandate isn't a legal matter. It comes from what was in the manifesto of the election winner. It's not a legal matter because the manifesto isn't a legal document. The manifesto says what the election winner will use best efforts to do. Which in this case is hold a Sindy vote. The 'best efforts' bit is unwritten but is obviously implied. Because the manifesto is not a legal document. It's not a contract. The election win doesn’t confer on the Scottish government a legal obligation to hold a Sindy vote. It gives them a mandate to do so. If they can. Your argument is inferior to mine. You're using "legality" in a flawed and jaundiced way.
I can't tell if these Dr Paul comments are serious or a joke
Considering how he was shoehorned into the Pools job, I'm only half joking. Paul isn't a complete narcissist - he was offered something by Keir to drop his full year spent campaigning to become PCC to take up the PPC gig. I am not the only person speculating as to what has been offered to him.
I wonder if Nick Brown might be tempted to step down. Newcastle upon Tyne East would be a tasty "safe seat"...
The question is whether Ed Balls could be persuaded back to save Labour from itself.
As I've said on a few previous occasions, I'd vote for Labour led by Ed Balls. I'd trust him in brexit and cultural values issues in a way I don't trust any of the current lot. He would do right by people with traditional values and I think he understands that reversing brexit would be the end of the Labour party which Starmer doesn't.
I wonder if Nick Brown might be tempted to step down. Newcastle upon Tyne East would be a tasty "safe seat"...
The question is whether Ed Balls could be persuaded back to save Labour from itself.
As I've said on a few previous occasions, I'd vote for Labour led by Ed Balls. I'd trust him in brexit and cultural values issues in a way I don't trust any of the current lot. He would do right by people with traditional values and I think he understands that reversing brexit would be the end of the Labour party which Starmer doesn't.
In which case Batley and Spen would be a good fit for him. Doubt he'd touch it with a bargepole, mind.
I wonder if Nick Brown might be tempted to step down. Newcastle upon Tyne East would be a tasty "safe seat"...
The question is whether Ed Balls could be persuaded back to save Labour from itself.
As I've said on a few previous occasions, I'd vote for Labour led by Ed Balls. I'd trust him in brexit and cultural values issues in a way I don't trust any of the current lot. He would do right by people with traditional values and I think he understands that reversing brexit would be the end of the Labour party which Starmer doesn't.
In which case Batley and Spen would be a good fit for him. Doubt he'd touch it with a bargepole, mind.
Well, if he's up for it...
If he can't win Batley and Spen, he can't win the country, so why not?
Patrick Maguire @patrickkmaguire · 6m Rayner ally declares victory. Told she retains control over “party matters” and is effectively Anneliese Dodds’s line manager
I wonder if Nick Brown might be tempted to step down. Newcastle upon Tyne East would be a tasty "safe seat"...
The question is whether Ed Balls could be persuaded back to save Labour from itself.
As I've said on a few previous occasions, I'd vote for Labour led by Ed Balls. I'd trust him in brexit and cultural values issues in a way I don't trust any of the current lot. He would do right by people with traditional values and I think he understands that reversing brexit would be the end of the Labour party which Starmer doesn't.
Agreed. Balls is a class act.
I've said on here before - LAB need to bring Ed Balls back.
He brings substance and personality.
Not sure he will fancy Batley & Spen though - hasn't he moved on from politics now?
#BothVotesSNP allowed 23 additional Unionists to gain seats on the list (14 CONs & 9 LAB).
If @theSNP support backed ALBA & #BothVotesYES this would have made @AlbaParty the second largest party on 31 seats in total & a pro-Indy majority of 31 as opposed to 8.
Anything now with Salmond at the helm would have done more harm than good for the Yes cause . The SNP would have been better off asking their supporters to vote Green on the list vote .
I think one thing Sturgeon set out to do was to bury Salmond/Alba completely - and in that she comprehensively succeeded. Although she didn't win a majority, it could have been worse.
I wonder if Nick Brown might be tempted to step down. Newcastle upon Tyne East would be a tasty "safe seat"...
The question is whether Ed Balls could be persuaded back to save Labour from itself.
As I've said on a few previous occasions, I'd vote for Labour led by Ed Balls. I'd trust him in brexit and cultural values issues in a way I don't trust any of the current lot. He would do right by people with traditional values and I think he understands that reversing brexit would be the end of the Labour party which Starmer doesn't.
Agreed. Balls is a class act.
I've said on here before - LAB need to bring Ed Balls back.
He brings substance and personality.
Not sure he will fancy Batley & Spen though - hasn't he moved on from politics now?
He has tasted the good life that is not being in politics any more.
Deputy Leader, Shadow First Secretary of State, Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Shadow Secretary of State for the Future of Work: Angela Rayner
Party Chair & Chair of Labour Policy Review: Anneliese Dodds
National Campaign Coordinator: Shabana Mahmood
•Shadow Chief Whip: Alan Campbell
•Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer: Rachel Reeves
•Shadow Chief Secretary to HM Treasury: Bridget Phillipson
•Shadow Secretary of State for Foreign & Commonwealth Affairs: Lisa Nandy
Shadow Secretary of State for the Home Department: Nick Thomas-Symonds
•Shadow Secretary of State for Justice: David Lammy
•Shadow Secretary of State for Defence: John Healey
Shadow Secretary of State for BEIS: Ed Miliband
•Shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions: Jonathan Reynolds
•Shadow Secretary of State for International Trade: Emily Thornberry
•Shadow Secretary of State for Education: Kate Green
Shadow Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport:Jo Stevens
•Shadow Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs:Luke Pollard
•Shadow Secretary of State for Communities & Local Government: Steve Reed
•Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care: Jonathan Ashworth
•Shadow Secretary of State for Housing: Lucy Powell
•Shadow Secretary of State for Transport: Jim McMahon
•Shadow Secretary of State for International Development: Preet Gill
•Shadow Secretary of State for Wales: Nia Griffith
Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland: Ian Murray
•Shadow Secretary of State for Northern Ireland: Louise Haigh
•Shadow Secretary of State for Women and Equalities: Marsha de Cordova
•Shadow Leader of the House of Commons: Thangam Debbonaire
•Shadow Attorney General: Charlie Falconer
•Shadow Secretary of State for Mental Health: Rosena Allin-Khan
•Shadow Secretary of State for Child Poverty: Wes Streeting
Shadow Secretary of State for Young People and Democracy: Cat Smith
•Shadow Secretary of State for Employment Rights & Protections: Andy McDonald
•Shadow Leader of the House of Lords: Angela Smith
I wonder if Nick Brown might be tempted to step down. Newcastle upon Tyne East would be a tasty "safe seat"...
The question is whether Ed Balls could be persuaded back to save Labour from itself.
As I've said on a few previous occasions, I'd vote for Labour led by Ed Balls. I'd trust him in brexit and cultural values issues in a way I don't trust any of the current lot. He would do right by people with traditional values and I think he understands that reversing brexit would be the end of the Labour party which Starmer doesn't.
If Balls can't be tempted out for Batley & Spen this time, then I doubt it's happening.
I can't tell if these Dr Paul comments are serious or a joke
Considering how he was shoehorned into the Pools job, I'm only half joking. Paul isn't a complete narcissist - he was offered something by Keir to drop his full year spent campaigning to become PCC to take up the PPC gig. I am not the only person speculating as to what has been offered to him.
I suspect having spent a year looking at being PCC of Cleveland police anything that helped him escape that job looked like a great idea.
I believe there are still a whole pile of problems in that police force that need to be handled and dealt with
The list of Johnson's Covid-19 mishaps is long. Early in the crisis, he was criticized for going into lockdown too late, not taking the virus seriously enough (famously saying he was still shaking hands with people at the same time Covid-19 was ripping through the country) and dropping the ball on crucial matters like testing and providing PPE for medical workers.
His government has been accused of sleaze and cronyism, handing lucrative contracts to people with links to his party. Most recently, Johnson was accused of saying he'd rather "let the bodies pile high in their thousands" than impose another lockdown, a comment he denied making.
His Brexit deal has been criticized for being sloppy and poorly implemented, leaving exporters in serious trouble. He is also being formally investigated by the electoral commission for allegedly letting Conservative donors pay for a very expensive refurbishment of his flat in Downing Street. And his judgment has come under serious scrutiny following a huge fallout in his inner circle.
How, then, has Johnson so resoundingly won this referendum on his leadership?
The first point to note is that Johnson has been bailed out by his government's vaccine rollout. More importantly, Johnson has managed to shift the center ground in England, a difficult feat in modern politics. Finally, the UK is very divided, which works in the Prime Minister's favor, at least for now.
And while Johnson appears to have gamed British politics perfectly for now, he's done so by driving a wedge between the four nations and by reaping the benefits of grievance politics. One day, it's entirely possible Johnson may come to regret unleashing these demons for the sake of victory.
Was this drivel put forward as news or an opinion piece? Trump really did drive them insane.
One can sometimes get a clearer view from a distance. I wouldn't reject it completely if I were you.
I genuinely don't see what Boris is doing which the Scots and Welsh can take such umbrage at. How is he 'driving a wedge between the nations'? (The Northern Irish aside, who do have a genuine grievance.) The wedge was driven between nations 20 years ago by the devolution settlement. As far as I can tell, the complaint t about Boris from the Scots appears to amount to him being English and a Conservative. If this is 'driving a wedge between nations' then the Scots essentially have a veto on any PM they don't like. This is tail-dogwaggery of the highest order. If this is the only way the union can function then the union is already dead.
He drags Scotland out of the EU against its will. He pays zero regard to Scottish interests in negotiating the exit terms. This triggers a demand for a vote on independence. He denies them that vote. Says tough titty, you're trapped.
This, however, does not necessarily mean that, as the first minister claims, holding another referendum is now clearly the "will of the people" in Scotland.
Rather, the outcome of the election confirms that Scotland is evenly divided on the constitutional question.
The three main pro-union parties won 50.4 per cent of the constituency vote, but the three main list parties secured 50.1 per cent of the list vote. The pro-independence majority is a consequence of the limitations of Holyrood’s supposedly proportional electoral system (devised over twenty years ago by Labour and the Liberal Democrats) rather than evidence of a clear majority in favour of another referendum.
It's not the Will of the People, but there's a clear democratic mandate for it. Both these things are true at the same time.
The number of MSPs is irrelevant - you don’t elect a representative to represent you in something that is outwith their powers
The number of MSPs is relevant to the mandate. Whether the mandate should be denied by Westminster on arcane legal grounds is a separate question. My opinion is it could be but shouldn't be. For 2 reasons, one of principle, one pragmatic. The principle is the right of the Scottish people to decide whether they wish to stay a part of the union. The pragmatism is that to deny and delay would make an acrimonious split more likely. Remain would be favourite if the vote were held soon. Respect democracy, win the vote, secure the union. That's the right way, the honest way, the best way. So I suppose Johnson won't do it. Or might he? In truth I'm not so sure.
And that’s exactly the point:
The MSP mandate explicitly doesn’t include a referendum under the terms of the law that established the Scottish Parliament
The right of the Scottish people to determine their future is more strongly demonstrated by the share of the vote which was about 50/50. If it had been 60/40 then I would have happily argued that Westminster should listen to that demand. But 50/50 doesn’t demonstrate a desire to go through the trauma of a further referendum
The election win doesn’t confer on the Scottish government a legal obligation to hold a Sindy vote.
Nor does it confer on them a legal right.
They could hold a referendum on removing Trident - but if they did, it would be ignored.
This system where some metro mayors are PCCs and some are not is ridiculous. What a mess.
It all depends on whether the mayoral boundaries match the police force area. West Yorkshire yes, Teesside no.
We need fewer police forces in my opinion.
We need more effective police forces, where "effective" is a nuanced term, but I fear proposals to merge forces or combine different emergency services are at best displacement activities. I suppose Police Scotland might provide some evidence one way or the other.
Police Scotland is an argument against fewer police forces.
Police Scotland is an oddity, because it encompasses an enormous geographical range and it places the force under central rather than local control. Of course, the Scottish Government is very centralising. You can't imagine the SNP creating elected mayoralties or combined authorities and giving them powers like Andy Burnham enjoys, even though they would almost certainly win all of them.
There is an argument for some consolidation though. Many smaller forces in England already pool resources. Would it necessarily do too much harm if they merged?
Wrong question?
What's the point of merging if there is no significant benefit?
#BothVotesSNP allowed 23 additional Unionists to gain seats on the list (14 CONs & 9 LAB).
If @theSNP support backed ALBA & #BothVotesYES this would have made @AlbaParty the second largest party on 31 seats in total & a pro-Indy majority of 31 as opposed to 8.
Anything now with Salmond at the helm would have done more harm than good for the Yes cause . The SNP would have been better off asking their supporters to vote Green on the list vote .
I think one thing Sturgeon set out to do was to bury Salmond/Alba completely - and in that she comprehensively succeeded. Although she didn't win a majority, it could have been worse.
Boris will of course easily brush off Sturgeon now, she has no SNP majority and has refused to hold a wildcat referendum and refused to declare UDI, both of which would have been more difficult for her to rule out had Salmond won lots of Alba MSPs on a hardline pro independence at any cost ticket.
So we continue much as before, the SNP in power, throwing its core vote scraps about independence but unable and unwilling to do anything much about it
I can't tell if these Dr Paul comments are serious or a joke
Considering how he was shoehorned into the Pools job, I'm only half joking. Paul isn't a complete narcissist - he was offered something by Keir to drop his full year spent campaigning to become PCC to take up the PPC gig. I am not the only person speculating as to what has been offered to him.
I suspect having spent a year looking at being PCC of Cleveland police anything that helped him escape that job looked like a great idea.
I believe there are still a whole pile of problems in that police force that need to be handled and dealt with
#BothVotesSNP allowed 23 additional Unionists to gain seats on the list (14 CONs & 9 LAB).
If @theSNP support backed ALBA & #BothVotesYES this would have made @AlbaParty the second largest party on 31 seats in total & a pro-Indy majority of 31 as opposed to 8.
Anything now with Salmond at the helm would have done more harm than good for the Yes cause . The SNP would have been better off asking their supporters to vote Green on the list vote .
I think one thing Sturgeon set out to do was to bury Salmond/Alba completely - and in that she comprehensively succeeded. Although she didn't win a majority, it could have been worse.
For strategic reasons (the dance of the bumble bees with Boris) winning a majority for SNP was NOT a priority (or desirability) for Sturgeon THIS election.
Stomping and goose-egging Salmond and Alba (same thing) definitely was.
Honestly, Blair and Brown should be making phone calls to Ed Balls tonight to persuade him to return and save the Labour party. If Labour becomes a mostly Southern middle class party then it's finished. Labour needs to be the party of the working man and woman. I just don't understand how we've got to this point, it's actually quite sad that a political movement as important as Labour has forgotten why it exists. The siren calls of middle class voters should be ignored, they'll be fighting the Tories, Lib Dems and Greens for these voters and handing the Tories a monopoly of working class people.
I don't see how Starmer reconnects the party with its base. He needs to go for Labour's survival as a political movement.
I wonder if Nick Brown might be tempted to step down. Newcastle upon Tyne East would be a tasty "safe seat"...
The question is whether Ed Balls could be persuaded back to save Labour from itself.
As I've said on a few previous occasions, I'd vote for Labour led by Ed Balls. I'd trust him in brexit and cultural values issues in a way I don't trust any of the current lot. He would do right by people with traditional values and I think he understands that reversing brexit would be the end of the Labour party which Starmer doesn't.
Can’t see why he’d want the bother to be honest. He seems to have a niche in TV now, similar to Portillo. A life out of the political spotight making decent money.
I can't tell if these Dr Paul comments are serious or a joke
Considering how he was shoehorned into the Pools job, I'm only half joking. Paul isn't a complete narcissist - he was offered something by Keir to drop his full year spent campaigning to become PCC to take up the PPC gig. I am not the only person speculating as to what has been offered to him.
I suspect having spent a year looking at being PCC of Cleveland police anything that helped him escape that job looked like a great idea.
I believe there are still a whole pile of problems in that police force that need to be handled and dealt with
Take off and nuke the entire force from orbit.
It's the only way to be sure.
Send in Chuck Norris to clean the place up.
Granted he's getting pretty old BUT (based on his TV infomercials) is still in tip-top shape.
Comments
@patrickkmaguire
Labour reshuffle latest:
Nick Brown sacked as chief whip
Rachel Reeves replaces Anneliese Dodds as shadow chancellor
Lisa Nandy and Jon Ashworth stay in post
Suggestions that Wes Streeting line for promotion to a new brief
Eh???????
Night all. Have fun.
Not sure LAB back in power soon
Not very public facing.
Sounds like another massive mistake.
The average age of a first-time mother in the UK is now about thirty years, according to a quick Google (slightly lower in England, slightly higher in Scotland.) So, it would probably be reasonable to define a Scottish generation as thirty years (rather than thirty seconds, as seems presently to be the case,) and to ignore demands from Edinburgh for yet another plebiscite for three decades.
Not that the SNP wouldn't keep on running, and winning, on the grievance regardless.
National Summary.
#BothVotesSNP allowed 23 additional Unionists to gain seats on the list (14 CONs & 9 LAB).
If @theSNP support backed ALBA & #BothVotesYES this would have made @AlbaParty
the second largest party on 31 seats in total & a pro-Indy majority of 31 as opposed to 8.
https://twitter.com/KirkJTorrance/status/1391487548778819589?s=20
Either that or super organizer, constantly working the rubber chicken network of local party meetings, union awards, regional dinners and so on.
Does either of those sound like Dodds the don from Oxford?
For example, the mixed tickets common in Mayor Daley's Chicago and Tammany Hall's (also Fiorello La Guardia's) New York City.
In both metropolises (or metropoli for the purists & latinists?) common practice was (and to some degree still is) to make sure that major voting blocs had someone running for something.
Say an Irishman (like Daley) for Mayor of Chicago, a Pole for Cook County Attorney, Italian & Jewish & Black for various congressional seats, a rich WASP for Parks Commissioner, etc, etc, etc.
Politicos would of course fight it out as to who got what, but serious effort was put into creating a balanced ticket that would attract support from across the civic mosaic.
Hallmark of big city political machines. But also strategy of savvy reformers & progressives.
With thanks to Bart Simpson.
Otherwise let's get Dr Paul in from a shortlist of 1.
As I've said on a few previous occasions, I'd vote for Labour led by Ed Balls. I'd trust him in brexit and cultural values issues in a way I don't trust any of the current lot. He would do right by people with traditional values and I think he understands that reversing brexit would be the end of the Labour party which Starmer doesn't.
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1391497217228394500?s=20
The super organiser bit, especially, probably shouldn't be done by an MP. Ask that nice man Mr Cummings.
Batley & Spen has a solid history of the 4 main enduring parties contesting all wards fully in local elections, so a good electoral history to go off. So, we have as follows (the mostly non-contested by-election after Jo Cox's murder is not shown). Others are almost exclusively Eurosceptics in various guises.
Election: Lab / Con / LD / Grn /Oth
GE 15: 43.2 / 31.2 / 4.7 / 2.4 / 18.0
Loc 16: 42.0 / 23.7 / 13.1 / 3.5 / 17.6
GE 17: 55.5 / 38.8 / 2.3 / 1.3 / 2.1
Loc 18: 48.2 / 35.1 / 12.0 / 4.4 / 0.02
Loc 19: 38.4 / 28.4 / 14.2 / 8.3 / 10.5
GE 19: 42.7 / 36.0 / 4.7 / 1.3 / 15.5
Loc 21: 39.4 / 39.5 / 12.3 / 6.7 / 2.1
I think the take home is that it will be tight, how those local Cleckheaton LDs break this time and whether an other party candidate can take many votes (my guess, not this time) will be key.
Similar to how Xi is a neo-Maoist and Chinese Nationalist sans funny suit.
There is an argument for some consolidation though. Many smaller forces in England already pool resources. Would it necessarily do too much harm if they merged?
That's good. At her first selection in Ladywood there were postal votes from Pakistan.
Doubt he'd touch it with a bargepole, mind.
another mistake.
If he can't win Batley and Spen, he can't win the country, so why not?
@patrickkmaguire
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6m
Rayner ally declares victory. Told she retains control over “party matters” and is effectively Anneliese Dodds’s line manager
More popcorn on order.
He brings substance and personality.
Not sure he will fancy Batley & Spen though - hasn't he moved on from politics now?
Party Chair & Chair of Labour Policy Review: Anneliese Dodds
National Campaign Coordinator: Shabana Mahmood
•Shadow Chief Whip: Alan Campbell
•Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer: Rachel Reeves
•Shadow Chief Secretary to HM Treasury: Bridget Phillipson
•Shadow Secretary of State for Foreign & Commonwealth Affairs: Lisa Nandy
Shadow Secretary of State for the Home Department: Nick Thomas-Symonds
•Shadow Secretary of State for Justice: David Lammy
•Shadow Secretary of State for Defence: John Healey
Shadow Secretary of State for BEIS: Ed Miliband
•Shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions: Jonathan Reynolds
•Shadow Secretary of State for International Trade: Emily Thornberry
•Shadow Secretary of State for Education: Kate Green
Shadow Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport:Jo Stevens
•Shadow Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs:Luke Pollard
•Shadow Secretary of State for Communities & Local Government: Steve Reed
•Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care: Jonathan Ashworth
•Shadow Secretary of State for Housing: Lucy Powell
•Shadow Secretary of State for Transport: Jim McMahon
•Shadow Secretary of State for International Development: Preet Gill
•Shadow Secretary of State for Wales: Nia Griffith
Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland: Ian Murray
•Shadow Secretary of State for Northern Ireland: Louise Haigh
•Shadow Secretary of State for Women and Equalities: Marsha de Cordova
•Shadow Leader of the House of Commons: Thangam Debbonaire
•Shadow Attorney General: Charlie Falconer
•Shadow Secretary of State for Mental Health: Rosena Allin-Khan
•Shadow Secretary of State for Child Poverty: Wes Streeting
Shadow Secretary of State for Young People and Democracy: Cat Smith
•Shadow Secretary of State for Employment Rights & Protections: Andy McDonald
•Shadow Leader of the House of Lords: Angela Smith
•Opposition Chief Whip in the House:Tommy McAvoy
I believe there are still a whole pile of problems in that police force that need to be handled and dealt with
This is driving a wedge.
They could hold a referendum on removing Trident - but if they did, it would be ignored.
What's the point of merging if there is no significant benefit?
So we continue much as before, the SNP in power, throwing its core vote scraps about independence but unable and unwilling to do anything much about it
It's the only way to be sure.
Stomping and goose-egging Salmond and Alba (same thing) definitely was.
I don't see how Starmer reconnects the party with its base. He needs to go for Labour's survival as a political movement.
Or are there any other dog catchers or school boards I've missed?
Granted he's getting pretty old BUT (based on his TV infomercials) is still in tip-top shape.